Does anyone remember when some Leave politicians were suggesting voters would be so angry there would be outrage and almost civil disorder if the UK took part in EU elections .
The only people peddling the anger seem to be the ERG nutjobs and the Farage Betrayal Tour .
Politicians need to STFU and stop telling everyone how they should be feeling . And the next politician who utters the words . What I’m hearing on the door step , needs to be sectioned .
The biggest problem in the UK aren’t the voters but the politicians who need to stop stoking the fire .
> @JosiasJessop said: > Anecdote: > > We went to Peterborough this afternoon, and in the city centre saw a small UKIP stand manned by two old geezers (one of whom was wearing the worst Union Jack jacket imaginable (*)). Then, in the main shopping centre, there were a bunch of teenagers handing out Brexit Party literature - acting more like they belonged to some form of evangelical outing than a political party. > > There were no other parties visible. This is, of course, immediately after the European Elections, but there is a by-election coming up in Peterborough. > > (*) And no, this is not an unpatriotic thing to say. It wasn't that he was wrapping himself in the flag; it was that it looked terrible.
In some countries (USA, India), wearing the flag in such a way would be considered extremely offensive to some people. There are people who would consider themselves deeply patriotic who would be furious with that person.
Does anyone remember when some Leave politicians were suggesting voters would be so angry there would be outrage and almost civil disorder if the UK took part in EU elections .
The only people peddling the anger seem to be the ERG nutjobs and the Farage Betrayal Tour .
Politicians need to STFU and stop telling everyone how they should be feeling . And the next politician who utters the words . What I’m hearing on the door step , needs to be sectioned .
The biggest problem in the UK aren’t the voters but the politicians who need to stop stoking the fire .
> @JosiasJessop said: > Anecdote: > > We went to Peterborough this afternoon, and in the city centre saw a small UKIP stand manned by two old geezers (one of whom was wearing the worst Union Jack jacket imaginable (*)). Then, in the main shopping centre, there were a bunch of teenagers handing out Brexit Party literature - acting more like they belonged to some form of evangelical outing than a political party. > > There were no other parties visible. This is, of course, immediately after the European Elections, but there is a by-election coming up in Peterborough. > > (*) And no, this is not an unpatriotic thing to say. It wasn't that he was wrapping himself in the flag; it was that it looked terrible.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if TBP won on Thursday.
> @isam said: > How many 6 week old parties in their first national election in this country have won lets say 4 million votes or more whilst likely beating every other party? > > > > It may not indicate how they will do in a general election but it is by far the fastest rise of a party that lacked any prior Parliamentary representation that I know of in British politics before > > > > @noneoftheabove > > > > 3% is a miniscule number and probably reflects those generally disaffected with Westminster in general. It pales into insignificance with the 25% of Labour voters thereabouts who voted leave who certainly won't be 'seething' if we leave the EU. > > “How many 6 week old parties in their first national election in this country have won lets say 4 million votes or more whilst likely beating every other party?” > > ...and were branded failures by people who thought ChangeUK were the second coming the day they formed?
But the Brexit Party aren't really a party in the traditional sense, are they? They don't really have any policies outside of their four pledges on Brexit, and they seem more like a movement or, if I was to be uncharitable, a personality cult.
> @isam said: > Does anyone remember when some Leave politicians were suggesting voters would be so angry there would be outrage and almost civil disorder if the UK took part in EU elections . > > > > The only people peddling the anger seem to be the ERG nutjobs and the Farage Betrayal Tour . > > > > Politicians need to STFU and stop telling everyone how they should be feeling . And the next politician who utters the words . What I’m hearing on the door step , needs to be sectioned . > > > > The biggest problem in the UK aren’t the voters but the politicians who need to stop stoking the fire . > > I don’t remember that
The pro-EU MPs in the Conservative party are getting their arguments in if the front web-page of the Guardian is to believed. Looks like the Tory Party is going to have a very acrimonious leadership campaign. I have read on here that it is the ERG that are the nutters. Seems to me that the hard liners on the other side are just as mad.
Matt Hancock has rocketed to the top of the nauseating desperate to be leader charts .
After wallowing outside the top 20 he uttered “ make the most of the opportunities of Brexit “ which saw him fly to the top .
The only thing he didn’t do in this desperate attempt to appeal to the Tory Membership was break out into a rendition of Two World Wars and One World Cup . Followed by a promise to brick up the Channel Tunnel.
> How many 6 week old parties in their first national election in this country have won lets say 4 million votes or more whilst likely beating every other party?
>
>
>
> It may not indicate how they will do in a general election but it is by far the fastest rise of a party that lacked any prior Parliamentary representation that I know of in British politics before
> 3% is a miniscule number and probably reflects those generally disaffected with Westminster in general. It pales into insignificance with the 25% of Labour voters thereabouts who voted leave who certainly won't be 'seething' if we leave the EU.
>
> “How many 6 week old parties in their first national election in this country have won lets say 4 million votes or more whilst likely beating every other party?”
>
> ...and were branded failures by people who thought ChangeUK were the second coming the day they formed?
But the Brexit Party aren't really a party in the traditional sense, are they? They don't really have any policies outside of their four pledges on Brexit, and they seem more like a movement or, if I was to be uncharitable, a personality cult.
Cynical and uncharitable, not good things to be.
Traditional parties are weak, lie and break promises as soon as look at you.
> @MikeSmithson said: > One thing's for sure tomorrow night - The Brexit Party will struggle to match the 16,141,241 votes that Remain got at the referendum
But will be closer than LDs Greens CUK are to 17.4m
> We went to Peterborough this afternoon, and in the city centre saw a small UKIP stand manned by two old geezers (one of whom was wearing the worst Union Jack jacket imaginable (*)). Then, in the main shopping centre, there were a bunch of teenagers handing out Brexit Party literature - acting more like they belonged to some form of evangelical outing than a political party.
>
> There were no other parties visible. This is, of course, immediately after the European Elections, but there is a by-election coming up in Peterborough.
>
> (*) And no, this is not an unpatriotic thing to say. It wasn't that he was wrapping himself in the flag; it was that it looked terrible.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if TBP won on Thursday.
> @Jonathan said: > > @JackW said: > > @MikeSmithson said: > > > > "One thing's for sure tomorrow night - The Brexit Party will struggle to match the 16,141,241 votes that Remain got at the referendum." > > > > ....................................................................................................... > > > > Mike do you think the LibDems will edge towards the BREXIT 17 million ?? .... just asking for a friend in the dungeons !! > > > > > > Will TBP beat the revoke petition?
Considering the revoke petition got zero votes ... yes. Even 1 vote by a registered voter > any amount of unverified clicks on a website with no security.
Someone who rightly realizes that Gove has the best chance of uniting the party . All the moderate Tories and more pro EU ones will get behind Gove .
A pragmatic Brexiter who was part of the Leave campaign and who thinks Vote Leave promised a deal and needs to deliver it . He’s also not despised by the EU and has shown loyalty to May .
The EU will never compromise with Bozo as they see him as a Trump poodle and also they will never hand him a victory so he can parade around like the Brexit hero !
> @ah009 said: > > @rcs1000 said: > > > @OllyT said: > > > > @isam said: > > > > FPT @rcs1000 > > > > > > > > It looks better for Remain than Leave on the face of it, turnout wise. I agree I'd be happier if the increases were reversed > > > > > > Re your comment on the last thread I estimated that Farage and UKIP will get the votes of 10-15% of the ELECTORATE (not the vote) and if this is the case it doesn't really bear out the idea that there are millions of people out there seething at a Brexit "betrayal" as some would try and have us believe. > > > > 10-15% of the electorate is many millions of people. > > Millions, yes. Many millions, no.
Many millions, yes. 15% of the electorate is 7 million. 7 is many.
> @Philip_Thompson said: > > @ah009 said: > > > @rcs1000 said: > > > > @OllyT said: > > > > > @isam said: > > > > > FPT @rcs1000 > > > > > > > > > > It looks better for Remain than Leave on the face of it, turnout wise. I agree I'd be happier if the increases were reversed > > > > > > > > Re your comment on the last thread I estimated that Farage and UKIP will get the votes of 10-15% of the ELECTORATE (not the vote) and if this is the case it doesn't really bear out the idea that there are millions of people out there seething at a Brexit "betrayal" as some would try and have us believe. > > > > > > 10-15% of the electorate is many millions of people. > > > > Millions, yes. Many millions, no. > > Many millions, yes. 15% of the electorate is 7 million. 7 is many.
Saturday nights on PB.com a mixture of too much alcohol with not a lot better to do and nothing worth watching on the box! I am as guilty as the next person and where I am it’s 9:50 so I have an hour on most. Apparently bargepole was just a pointless answer
So David Gauke and Justine Greening writing in the Guardian .
There are others who will also refuse to accept no deal . The Tories are deluded if they think Bozo or any other no deal fantasist won’t lead to a complete meltdown in the party.
Someone who rightly realizes that Gove has the best chance of uniting the party . All the moderate Tories and more pro EU ones will get behind Gove .
A pragmatic Brexiter who was part of the Leave campaign and who thinks Vote Leave promised a deal and needs to deliver it . He’s also not despised by the EU and has shown loyalty to May .
The EU will never compromise with Bozo as they see him as a Trump poodle and also they will never hand him a victory so he can parade around like the Brexit hero !
A pragmatic brexiter will not be able to unite the party any better than May, it doesnt get the Grievers or Francois' of the world on board.
Ignoring force moment Boris's inexplicable popularity with people who hate the deal he voted for, the MP most in tune with the members and thus in theory best placed to unite as much of it as possible, is Steve Baker.
> @isam said: > Cynical and uncharitable, not good things to be. > > Traditional parties are weak, lie and break promises as soon as look at you. > > You’ve got me at it now!
Cynical and uncharitable perhaps, but is it wrong? TBP can't really break any promises, as outside Brexit they don't make any. This allows them to be everything to everyone; something that got leave over the line in the referendum, but which is deeply cynical if you stand in elections that are more broad-brush.
Traditional parties sometimes 'break' promises because they are sh*ts who play the electorate for fools. More often, I'd argue, they 'break' them because desires meet hard, uncompromising reality.
> Cynical and uncharitable, not good things to be.
>
> Traditional parties are weak, lie and break promises as soon as look at you.
>
> You’ve got me at it now!
Cynical and uncharitable perhaps, but is it wrong? TBP can't really break any promises, as outside Brexit they don't make any. This allows them to be everything to everyone; something that got leave over the line in the referendum, but which is deeply cynical if you stand in elections that are more broad-brush.
Traditional parties sometimes 'break' promises because they are sh*ts who play the electorate for fools. More often, I'd argue, they 'break' them because desires meet hard, uncompromising reality.
That is why something needs to be done about manifestos
For the Euros I think it was fair enough to be a blank canvas for Leave, after that lets see what they come up with
> @nichomar said: > A Tory MP making friend with his constituents online... > > > > https://twitter.com/Simon4NDorset/status/1132341760376680450 > > > > Whilst I don’t agree with Owen what’s his name the MPs response was “inappropriate” in my opinion using the language that he did.
Not sure I see the problem. MPs routinely ask correspondents to give their addresses, as they don't usually correspond with non-constituents. He isn't swearing, merely asking for the information - he might have explained or said please, but it doesn't seemoutrageous. What am I missing?
> @NickPalmer said: > > @nichomar said: > > A Tory MP making friend with his constituents online... > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/Simon4NDorset/status/1132341760376680450 > > > > > > > > Whilst I don’t agree with Owen what’s his name the MPs response was “inappropriate” in my opinion using the language that he did. > > Not sure I see the problem. MPs routinely ask correspondents to give their addresses, as they don't usually correspond with non-constituents. He isn't swearing, merely asking for the information - he might have explained or said please, but it doesn't seemoutrageous. What am I missing?
I'm with you on this. Her tweet is confrontational.
> > Not sure I see the problem. MPs routinely ask correspondents to give their addresses, as they don't usually correspond with non-constituents. He isn't swearing, merely asking for the information - he might have explained or said please, but it doesn't seemoutrageous. What am I missing?
"But the Brexit Party aren't really a party in the traditional sense, are they? They don't really have any policies outside of their four pledges on Brexit, and they seem more like a movement or, if I was to be uncharitable, a personality cult."
When most legislation is driven by a need to service our unsustainable public sector or is passed down by the EU, other international organisations (G20, NATO, UN) or international events and when our public finances are in such a poor situation NO party has any real policies or should really be considered 'traditional'. .
And as you ARE being uncharitable better a personality cult that would set our politics (and our trade) free to develop the policies and markets that this country need than a bunch of zombie parties (who cannot see how dead they actually are) that are content on being their European masters doormats by implementing one size fits all dictats from Brussels.
> @Benpointer said: > > @NickPalmer said: > > > > > Not sure I see the problem. MPs routinely ask correspondents to give their addresses, as they don't usually correspond with non-constituents. He isn't swearing, merely asking for the information - he might have explained or said please, but it doesn't seemoutrageous. What am I missing? > > I think the issue was Hoare's earlier tweet: > > https://twitter.com/Simon4NDorset/status/1131890981387812864
> @viewcode said: > Poor old Vlad. > Russia the hot favourite to reach the final of the Ice Hockey World Championship is beaten by the upstart neighbours. Again. Congratulations to the Finns. > > "One Winter War and one Ice Hockey World Cup, hoo-yah, hoo-yah" > > Finland. More lakes than land. The only country who, when the Russians say "oh yeah, you and whose army?", can actually point. <
+++++
Uh, Russia - alias the Soviet Union - won that war. The Finns were heroic, against a much larger enemy, but they lost - "ceding 11% of Finnish territory".
> Whilst I don’t agree with Owen what’s his name the MPs response was “inappropriate” in my opinion using the language that he did.
Not sure I see the problem. MPs routinely ask correspondents to give their addresses, as they don't usually correspond with non-constituents. He isn't swearing, merely asking for the information - he might have explained or said please, but it doesn't seemoutrageous. What am I missing?
I can’t remember the exact words, you would have to backtrack it but it was not “appropriate
> @NickPalmer said: > > @nichomar said: > > A Tory MP making friend with his constituents online... > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/Simon4NDorset/status/1132341760376680450 > > > > > > > > Whilst I don’t agree with Owen what’s his name the MPs response was “inappropriate” in my opinion using the language that he did. > > Not sure I see the problem. MPs routinely ask correspondents to give their addresses, as they don't usually correspond with non-constituents. He isn't swearing, merely asking for the information - he might have explained or said please, but it doesn't seemoutrageous. What am I missing?
Simon is perhaps the politest MP I’ve met - his reaction to OJ is understandable given he was a very firm May loyalist.
> > Not sure I see the problem. MPs routinely ask correspondents to give their addresses, as they don't usually correspond with non-constituents. He isn't swearing, merely asking for the information - he might have explained or said please, but it doesn't seemoutrageous. What am I missing?
I'd rather our public representatives not engage in puerile insults on Twitter or elsewhere, but given the medium and the fact both parties are active political campaigners who both engage in insults I would guess, I'm not sure its worth more than a shake of the head.
> @nichomar said: > > @nichomar said: > > > A Tory MP making friend with his constituents online... > > > > > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/Simon4NDorset/status/1132341760376680450 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whilst I don’t agree with Owen what’s his name the MPs response was “inappropriate” in my opinion using the language that he did. > > > > Not sure I see the problem. MPs routinely ask correspondents to give their addresses, as they don't usually correspond with non-constituents. He isn't swearing, merely asking for the information - he might have explained or said please, but it doesn't seemoutrageous. What am I missing? > > I can’t remember the exact words, you would have to backtrack it but it was not “appropriate
Oh be quiet you snivelling, charmless, done nothing little runt!
> > Not sure I see the problem. MPs routinely ask correspondents to give their addresses, as they don't usually correspond with non-constituents. He isn't swearing, merely asking for the information - he might have explained or said please, but it doesn't seemoutrageous. What am I missing?
> > Not sure I see the problem. MPs routinely ask correspondents to give their addresses, as they don't usually correspond with non-constituents. He isn't swearing, merely asking for the information - he might have explained or said please, but it doesn't seemoutrageous. What am I missing?
> Cynical and uncharitable, not good things to be.
>
> Traditional parties are weak, lie and break promises as soon as look at you.
>
> You’ve got me at it now!
Cynical and uncharitable perhaps, but is it wrong? TBP can't really break any promises, as outside Brexit they don't make any. This allows them to be everything to everyone; something that got leave over the line in the referendum, but which is deeply cynical if you stand in elections that are more broad-brush.
Traditional parties sometimes 'break' promises because they are sh*ts who play the electorate for fools. More often, I'd argue, they 'break' them because desires meet hard, uncompromising reality.
We need to scrutinise promises to see how unrealistic they are call them out, since in those cases they are close to lies, avoiding it on the basis that they meant it they just had no idea how to do it but hoped they figure it out . But as you say a great many are justified in breaking promises as the situation, which may have changed, demands it.
So Rory is clearly not getting a Cabinet post under Boris - it's a way off the record but hell be near the bottom of the list of cabinet member tenure i guess.
> @oxfordsimon said: > I do wonder what is going on in Raab's head that makes him think he in any way has the personality to lead and inspire a nation. > > That level of delusion deserves an intervention for his own benefit. -----------
He's got confused and thinks being the next Prime Minister, means the PM for people who shop at Next.
There's clearly going to be sufficient leadership candidates for a BBC1 series in the style of The Apprentice where each week they have to do prime ministerial tasks better than the other to avoid being knocked out of the running.
I do wonder what is going on in Raab's head that makes him think he in any way has the personality to lead and inspire a nation.
That level of delusion deserves an intervention for his own benefit.
The most Tory person I know describes him as empty, but I couldn't discern who they thought had more substance. A lot of MPs seem to see something in Raab though. Not sure what. His defence of basically not knowing what was going on with the WA did not really make me think he was stuffed full if quality but he really hasn't left much impression on me either positive or negative, and hes at least not as gutless as Javid and Hunt.
> @solarflare said: > There's clearly going to be sufficient leadership candidates for a BBC1 series in the style of The Apprentice where each week they have to do prime ministerial tasks better than the other to avoid being knocked out of the running.
There will be enough that they will need a qualifying competition to whittle them down.
> Cynical and uncharitable, not good things to be.
>
> Traditional parties are weak, lie and break promises as soon as look at you.
>
> You’ve got me at it now!
Cynical and uncharitable perhaps, but is it wrong? TBP can't really break any promises, as outside Brexit they don't make any. This allows them to be everything to everyone; something that got leave over the line in the referendum, but which is deeply cynical if you stand in elections that are more broad-brush.
Traditional parties sometimes 'break' promises because they are sh*ts who play the electorate for fools. More often, I'd argue, they 'break' them because desires meet hard, uncompromising reality.
That is why something needs to be done about manifestos
For the Euros I think it was fair enough to be a blank canvas for Leave, after that lets see what they come up with
Agree it was fine for the Euros.
For UK parliamentary and local elections, I'd feel much 'happier' (that's not really the right word, but you know what I mean) if TBP had a solid manifesto (written by someone competent like Evans) and more people in top positions who can tell Farage when he's being an ass.
But that might be like trying to stop Musk tweeting ...
> @solarflare said: > There's clearly going to be sufficient leadership candidates for a BBC1 series in the style of The Apprentice where each week they have to do prime ministerial tasks better than the other to avoid being knocked out of the running.
Maybe that is the true reason for Donald visiting?
"But the Brexit Party aren't really a party in the traditional sense, are they? They don't really have any policies outside of their four pledges on Brexit, and they seem more like a movement or, if I was to be uncharitable, a personality cult."
When most legislation is driven by a need to service our unsustainable public sector or is passed down by the EU, other international organisations (G20, NATO, UN) or international events and when our public finances are in such a poor situation NO party has any real policies or should really be considered 'traditional'. .
And as you ARE being uncharitable better a personality cult that would set our politics (and our trade) free to develop the policies and markets that this country need than a bunch of zombie parties (who cannot see how dead they actually are) that are content on being their European masters doormats by implementing one size fits all dictats from Brussels.
"...better a personality cult that would set our politics (and our trade) free to develop the policies and markets that this country need than a bunch of zombie parties ..."
> @Byronic said: > > @viewcode said: > > Poor old Vlad. > > Russia the hot favourite to reach the final of the Ice Hockey World Championship is beaten by the upstart neighbours. Again. Congratulations to the Finns. > > > > "One Winter War and one Ice Hockey World Cup, hoo-yah, hoo-yah" > > > > Finland. More lakes than land. The only country who, when the Russians say "oh yeah, you and whose army?", can actually point. < > > +++++ > > Uh, Russia - alias the Soviet Union - won that war. The Finns were heroic, against a much larger enemy, but they lost - "ceding 11% of Finnish territory".
Yes, but Stalin’s aim was to annex the whole of Finland, or at the very least have his puppet Terijoki government take over as the “Finnish Democratic Republic”
> @dixiedean said: > > @solarflare said: > > There's clearly going to be sufficient leadership candidates for a BBC1 series in the style of The Apprentice where each week they have to do prime ministerial tasks better than the other to avoid being knocked out of the running. > > Maybe that is the true reason for Donald visiting?
Oh god I hope that's it. The Queen can be the Karren Brady role.
BBC 5Live - Rory Stewart refuses to rule out voting against a confidence motion in the government in certain circumstances. He says the country comes before the party.
> @JackW said: > BBC 5Live - Rory Stewart refuses to rule out voting against a confidence motion in the government in certain circumstances. He says the country comes before the party.
I bet he truly believes he's the "unity man". Now he's machine gunning his own side. Urghh.
> @TheScreamingEagles said: > Johnson beat Gove 66/34 in the YouGov members poll. Too big a hill to climb. > > But members do not get to decide who the final two sent to the members are, that is the responsibility of MPs. > > It is likely Boris Johnson doesn't even the support of his own brother Jo.
GOOD. This is the open, wide, aggressive, all-comers-welcome competition the Tories should have had three years ago. If they'd done it then, we might not be where we are now. Certainly Teresa May's many flaws would have been exposed, and I doubt she'd have won.
I do like what he is saying there. Not sure he will get very far but that might in part be because of the very issue he is talking about. Pantomime leaders instead of serious people who have practical solutions.
> @JackW said: > BBC 5Live - Rory Stewart refuses to rule out voting against a confidence motion in the government in certain circumstances. He says the country comes before the party.
It will be interesting to see how old-Etonians there are amongst Tory leadership candidates.
And I bet they will each be proclaiming that only they can truly be the voice of the common people.
I would love it to be Gove but I do think the Times missed a trick with that picture. Imagine if instead of him stroking a white dog it had been a white cat....
It would be funny as feck if Bozo pulls out before the race even starts again.
BTW I thought that Rudd's comments were very honest - a Remainer would have no chance with the membership if they made the last two, hence no point running.
> BBC 5Live - Rory Stewart refuses to rule out voting against a confidence motion in the government in certain circumstances. He says the country comes before the party.
It will be interesting to see how old-Etonians there are amongst Tory leadership candidates.
And I bet they will each be proclaiming that only they can truly be the voice of the common people.
> @Richard_Tyndall said: > > @TheScreamingEagles said: > > > @TheScreamingEagles said: > > > > > So Rory Stewart is viewed as a suicide bomber who will take out Boris Johnson before backing another candidate. > > > > > > > > What if he gets some momentum? > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/JeremyCliffe/status/1132291048196268033 > > > > > > > > Rory Stewart would be the new Thatcher. > > > > She stood in 1975 to take out Ted Heath. > > I do like what he is saying there. Not sure he will get very far but that might in part be because of the very issue he is talking about. Pantomime leaders instead of serious people who have practical solutions.
When do we find out whether he made a difference to violence in Prisons?
I'm not trying to make a snarky point here, but if he wasn't able to make progress on that specific problem maybe he's better as someone who can identify the problem with our politics rather than someone who can fix it.
> @Byronic said: > > @TheScreamingEagles said: > > To think people said Gove would back Boris this time. > > > > https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1132384136273047552 < > > > +++++ > > GOOD. This is the open, wide, aggressive, all-comers-welcome competition the Tories should have had three years ago. If they'd done it then, we might not be where we are now. Certainly Teresa May's many flaws would have been exposed, and I doubt she'd have won. > > Ah well. Better later than never.
Have to agree. It is 14, yes 14, years since a contested Tory leadership. 2005. Before the financial crisis. At a time when they were in opposition coming off a third election defeat. When leaving the EU was but a twinkle in the eye of the most Eurosceptic. When they were choosing someone to beat Blair. So much has happened. The political and economic landscape profoundly altered. They need a big barney about all sorts. Sadly, it will just be about Europe.
Comments
The only people peddling the anger seem to be the ERG nutjobs and the Farage Betrayal Tour .
Politicians need to STFU and stop telling everyone how they should be feeling . And the next politician who utters the words . What I’m hearing on the door step , needs to be sectioned .
The biggest problem in the UK aren’t the voters but the politicians who need to stop stoking the fire .
> Anecdote:
>
> We went to Peterborough this afternoon, and in the city centre saw a small UKIP stand manned by two old geezers (one of whom was wearing the worst Union Jack jacket imaginable (*)). Then, in the main shopping centre, there were a bunch of teenagers handing out Brexit Party literature - acting more like they belonged to some form of evangelical outing than a political party.
>
> There were no other parties visible. This is, of course, immediately after the European Elections, but there is a by-election coming up in Peterborough.
>
> (*) And no, this is not an unpatriotic thing to say. It wasn't that he was wrapping himself in the flag; it was that it looked terrible.
In some countries (USA, India), wearing the flag in such a way would be considered extremely offensive to some people. There are people who would consider themselves deeply patriotic who would be furious with that person.
(I don't take a view)
> Anecdote:
>
> We went to Peterborough this afternoon, and in the city centre saw a small UKIP stand manned by two old geezers (one of whom was wearing the worst Union Jack jacket imaginable (*)). Then, in the main shopping centre, there were a bunch of teenagers handing out Brexit Party literature - acting more like they belonged to some form of evangelical outing than a political party.
>
> There were no other parties visible. This is, of course, immediately after the European Elections, but there is a by-election coming up in Peterborough.
>
> (*) And no, this is not an unpatriotic thing to say. It wasn't that he was wrapping himself in the flag; it was that it looked terrible.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if TBP won on Thursday.
> How many 6 week old parties in their first national election in this country have won lets say 4 million votes or more whilst likely beating every other party?
>
>
>
> It may not indicate how they will do in a general election but it is by far the fastest rise of a party that lacked any prior Parliamentary representation that I know of in British politics before
>
>
>
> @noneoftheabove
>
>
>
> 3% is a miniscule number and probably reflects those generally disaffected with Westminster in general. It pales into insignificance with the 25% of Labour voters thereabouts who voted leave who certainly won't be 'seething' if we leave the EU.
>
> “How many 6 week old parties in their first national election in this country have won lets say 4 million votes or more whilst likely beating every other party?”
>
> ...and were branded failures by people who thought ChangeUK were the second coming the day they formed?
But the Brexit Party aren't really a party in the traditional sense, are they? They don't really have any policies outside of their four pledges on Brexit, and they seem more like a movement or, if I was to be uncharitable, a personality cult.
> Does anyone remember when some Leave politicians were suggesting voters would be so angry there would be outrage and almost civil disorder if the UK took part in EU elections .
>
>
>
> The only people peddling the anger seem to be the ERG nutjobs and the Farage Betrayal Tour .
>
>
>
> Politicians need to STFU and stop telling everyone how they should be feeling . And the next politician who utters the words . What I’m hearing on the door step , needs to be sectioned .
>
>
>
> The biggest problem in the UK aren’t the voters but the politicians who need to stop stoking the fire .
>
> I don’t remember that
I.
'm not recollecting it either.
Very, very busy and lots of money being spent.
Life goes on.
After wallowing outside the top 20 he uttered “ make the most of the opportunities of Brexit “ which saw him fly to the top .
The only thing he didn’t do in this desperate attempt to appeal to the Tory Membership was break out into a rendition of Two World Wars and One World Cup . Followed by a promise to brick up the Channel Tunnel.
As a Remainer I have a zero tolerance for BABs.
Born Again Brexiters .
Matt Hancock you’re fired !
Traditional parties are weak, lie and break promises as soon as look at you.
You’ve got me at it now!
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/25/tory-leadership-race-cyanide-brexit-inequality
> One thing's for sure tomorrow night - The Brexit Party will struggle to match the 16,141,241 votes that Remain got at the referendum
But will be closer than LDs Greens CUK are to 17.4m
> > @JackW said:
> > @MikeSmithson said:
> >
> > "One thing's for sure tomorrow night - The Brexit Party will struggle to match the 16,141,241 votes that Remain got at the referendum."
> >
> > .......................................................................................................
> >
> > Mike do you think the LibDems will edge towards the BREXIT 17 million ?? .... just asking for a friend in the dungeons !!
> >
> >
>
> Will TBP beat the revoke petition?
Considering the revoke petition got zero votes ... yes. Even 1 vote by a registered voter > any amount of unverified clicks on a website with no security.
> https://twitter.com/neill_bob/status/1132325449214976000
>
>
>
> Who is this cretin
Someone who rightly realizes that Gove has the best chance of uniting the party . All the moderate Tories and more pro EU ones will get behind Gove .
A pragmatic Brexiter who was part of the Leave campaign and who thinks Vote Leave promised a deal and needs to deliver it . He’s also not despised by the EU and has shown loyalty to May .
The EU will never compromise with Bozo as they see him as a Trump poodle and also they will never hand him a victory so he can parade around like the Brexit hero !
> > @HYUFD said:
> > > @Black_Rook said:
> > > > @HYUFD said:
> > > > https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1132185103533314048?s=20
> > >
> > > The Lib Dems don't need this feeble little outfit. They'd be better off talking to the Greens.
> >
> > True but I don't think the Greens would touch the LDs after the Coalition
>
> Good grief - I agree with you!
I wouldn't touch the Greens with a barge pole. Illiberal eco-socialists.
“I can’t believe Rory Stewart is standing. He’s uglier than the night”
I suspect they worked for the Commission as their conversation ended:
“I hope they all burn”
> > @rcs1000 said:
> > > @OllyT said:
> > > > @isam said:
> > > > FPT @rcs1000
> > > >
> > > > It looks better for Remain than Leave on the face of it, turnout wise. I agree I'd be happier if the increases were reversed
> > >
> > > Re your comment on the last thread I estimated that Farage and UKIP will get the votes of 10-15% of the ELECTORATE (not the vote) and if this is the case it doesn't really bear out the idea that there are millions of people out there seething at a Brexit "betrayal" as some would try and have us believe.
> >
> > 10-15% of the electorate is many millions of people.
>
> Millions, yes. Many millions, no.
Many millions, yes. 15% of the electorate is 7 million. 7 is many.
> > @ah009 said:
> > > @rcs1000 said:
> > > > @OllyT said:
> > > > > @isam said:
> > > > > FPT @rcs1000
> > > > >
> > > > > It looks better for Remain than Leave on the face of it, turnout wise. I agree I'd be happier if the increases were reversed
> > > >
> > > > Re your comment on the last thread I estimated that Farage and UKIP will get the votes of 10-15% of the ELECTORATE (not the vote) and if this is the case it doesn't really bear out the idea that there are millions of people out there seething at a Brexit "betrayal" as some would try and have us believe.
> > >
> > > 10-15% of the electorate is many millions of people.
> >
> > Millions, yes. Many millions, no.
>
> Many millions, yes. 15% of the electorate is 7 million. 7 is many.
For the many millions, not the few.
https://twitter.com/Simon4NDorset/status/1132341760376680450
There are others who will also refuse to accept no deal . The Tories are deluded if they think Bozo or any other no deal fantasist won’t lead to a complete meltdown in the party.
Ignoring force moment Boris's inexplicable popularity with people who hate the deal he voted for, the MP most in tune with the members and thus in theory best placed to unite as much of it as possible, is Steve Baker.
> Cynical and uncharitable, not good things to be.
>
> Traditional parties are weak, lie and break promises as soon as look at you.
>
> You’ve got me at it now!
Cynical and uncharitable perhaps, but is it wrong? TBP can't really break any promises, as outside Brexit they don't make any. This allows them to be everything to everyone; something that got leave over the line in the referendum, but which is deeply cynical if you stand in elections that are more broad-brush.
Traditional parties sometimes 'break' promises because they are sh*ts who play the electorate for fools. More often, I'd argue, they 'break' them because desires meet hard, uncompromising reality.
For the Euros I think it was fair enough to be a blank canvas for Leave, after that lets see what they come up with
> A Tory MP making friend with his constituents online...
>
>
>
> https://twitter.com/Simon4NDorset/status/1132341760376680450
>
>
>
> Whilst I don’t agree with Owen what’s his name the MPs response was “inappropriate” in my opinion using the language that he did.
Not sure I see the problem. MPs routinely ask correspondents to give their addresses, as they don't usually correspond with non-constituents. He isn't swearing, merely asking for the information - he might have explained or said please, but it doesn't seemoutrageous. What am I missing?
> https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1132375905312100352
Jeez what guff . Perhaps the workers would like to read his contribution to the right wing capitalism on steroids book Brittania Unchained .
Labour have their campaign slogans ready to go .
> > @nichomar said:
> > A Tory MP making friend with his constituents online...
> >
> >
> >
> > https://twitter.com/Simon4NDorset/status/1132341760376680450
> >
> >
> >
> > Whilst I don’t agree with Owen what’s his name the MPs response was “inappropriate” in my opinion using the language that he did.
>
> Not sure I see the problem. MPs routinely ask correspondents to give their addresses, as they don't usually correspond with non-constituents. He isn't swearing, merely asking for the information - he might have explained or said please, but it doesn't seemoutrageous. What am I missing?
I'm with you on this. Her tweet is confrontational.
>
> Not sure I see the problem. MPs routinely ask correspondents to give their addresses, as they don't usually correspond with non-constituents. He isn't swearing, merely asking for the information - he might have explained or said please, but it doesn't seemoutrageous. What am I missing?
I think the issue was Hoare's earlier tweet:
https://twitter.com/Simon4NDorset/status/1131890981387812864
> https://twitter.com/GuardianHeather/status/1132378136069509120
Any relation to Rory?
"But the Brexit Party aren't really a party in the traditional sense, are they? They don't really have any policies outside of their four pledges on Brexit, and they seem more like a movement or, if I was to be uncharitable, a personality cult."
When most legislation is driven by a need to service our unsustainable public sector or is passed down by the EU, other international organisations (G20, NATO, UN) or international events and when our public finances are in such a poor situation NO party has any real policies or should really be considered 'traditional'. .
And as you ARE being uncharitable better a personality cult that would set our politics (and our trade) free to develop the policies and markets that this country need than a bunch of zombie parties (who cannot see how dead they actually are) that are content on being their European masters doormats by implementing one size fits all dictats from Brussels.
> > @NickPalmer said:
>
> >
> > Not sure I see the problem. MPs routinely ask correspondents to give their addresses, as they don't usually correspond with non-constituents. He isn't swearing, merely asking for the information - he might have explained or said please, but it doesn't seemoutrageous. What am I missing?
>
> I think the issue was Hoare's earlier tweet:
>
> https://twitter.com/Simon4NDorset/status/1131890981387812864
Ah. Yes.
> Poor old Vlad.
> Russia the hot favourite to reach the final of the Ice Hockey World Championship is beaten by the upstart neighbours. Again. Congratulations to the Finns.
>
> "One Winter War and one Ice Hockey World Cup, hoo-yah, hoo-yah"
>
> Finland. More lakes than land. The only country who, when the Russians say "oh yeah, you and whose army?", can actually point. <
+++++
Uh, Russia - alias the Soviet Union - won that war. The Finns were heroic, against a much larger enemy, but they lost - "ceding 11% of Finnish territory".
> https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1132379453697531905
Truss must want No. 11
> > @nichomar said:
> > A Tory MP making friend with his constituents online...
> >
> >
> >
> > https://twitter.com/Simon4NDorset/status/1132341760376680450
> >
> >
> >
> > Whilst I don’t agree with Owen what’s his name the MPs response was “inappropriate” in my opinion using the language that he did.
>
> Not sure I see the problem. MPs routinely ask correspondents to give their addresses, as they don't usually correspond with non-constituents. He isn't swearing, merely asking for the information - he might have explained or said please, but it doesn't seemoutrageous. What am I missing?
Simon is perhaps the politest MP I’ve met - his reaction to OJ is understandable given he was a very firm May loyalist.
> > @nichomar said:
>
> > A Tory MP making friend with his constituents online...
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > https://twitter.com/Simon4NDorset/status/1132341760376680450
>
>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Whilst I don’t agree with Owen what’s his name the MPs response was “inappropriate” in my opinion using the language that he did.
>
>
>
> Not sure I see the problem. MPs routinely ask correspondents to give their addresses, as they don't usually correspond with non-constituents. He isn't swearing, merely asking for the information - he might have explained or said please, but it doesn't seemoutrageous. What am I missing?
>
> I can’t remember the exact words, you would have to backtrack it but it was not “appropriate
Oh be quiet you snivelling, charmless, done nothing little runt!
(Hoare's words to Jones - not mine to you!
That level of delusion deserves an intervention for his own benefit.
> I do wonder what is going on in Raab's head that makes him think he in any way has the personality to lead and inspire a nation.
>
> That level of delusion deserves an intervention for his own benefit.
-----------
He's got confused and thinks being the next Prime Minister, means the PM for people who shop at Next.
https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1132384136273047552
> There's clearly going to be sufficient leadership candidates for a BBC1 series in the style of The Apprentice where each week they have to do prime ministerial tasks better than the other to avoid being knocked out of the running.
There will be enough that they will need a qualifying competition to whittle them down.
For UK parliamentary and local elections, I'd feel much 'happier' (that's not really the right word, but you know what I mean) if TBP had a solid manifesto (written by someone competent like Evans) and more people in top positions who can tell Farage when he's being an ass.
But that might be like trying to stop Musk tweeting ...
> There's clearly going to be sufficient leadership candidates for a BBC1 series in the style of The Apprentice where each week they have to do prime ministerial tasks better than the other to avoid being knocked out of the running.
Maybe that is the true reason for Donald visiting?
#IAmOnTeamBoris
> So Rory Stewart is viewed as a suicide bomber who will take out Boris Johnson before backing another candidate.
How is he planning to do that?
> So Rory Stewart is viewed as a suicide bomber who will take out Boris Johnson before backing another candidate.
What if he gets some momentum?
https://twitter.com/JeremyCliffe/status/1132291048196268033
NURSE!
She stood in 1975 to take out Ted Heath.
> > @viewcode said:
> > Poor old Vlad.
> > Russia the hot favourite to reach the final of the Ice Hockey World Championship is beaten by the upstart neighbours. Again. Congratulations to the Finns.
> >
> > "One Winter War and one Ice Hockey World Cup, hoo-yah, hoo-yah"
> >
> > Finland. More lakes than land. The only country who, when the Russians say "oh yeah, you and whose army?", can actually point. <
>
> +++++
>
> Uh, Russia - alias the Soviet Union - won that war. The Finns were heroic, against a much larger enemy, but they lost - "ceding 11% of Finnish territory".
Yes, but Stalin’s aim was to annex the whole of Finland, or at the very least have his puppet Terijoki government take over as the “Finnish Democratic Republic”
> > @solarflare said:
> > There's clearly going to be sufficient leadership candidates for a BBC1 series in the style of The Apprentice where each week they have to do prime ministerial tasks better than the other to avoid being knocked out of the running.
>
> Maybe that is the true reason for Donald visiting?
Oh god I hope that's it. The Queen can be the Karren Brady role.
It is likely Boris Johnson doesn't even the support of his own brother Jo.
> BBC 5Live - Rory Stewart refuses to rule out voting against a confidence motion in the government in certain circumstances. He says the country comes before the party.
I bet he truly believes he's the "unity man". Now he's machine gunning his own side. Urghh.
> Johnson beat Gove 66/34 in the YouGov members poll. Too big a hill to climb.
>
> But members do not get to decide who the final two sent to the members are, that is the responsibility of MPs.
>
> It is likely Boris Johnson doesn't even the support of his own brother Jo.
The Milibands de nos jours.
> To think people said Gove would back Boris this time.
>
> https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1132384136273047552
Eustice was Gove's No 2 at Defra and a serious Brexiteer - useful ally.
> To think people said Gove would back Boris this time.
>
> https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1132384136273047552 <
+++++
GOOD. This is the open, wide, aggressive, all-comers-welcome competition the Tories should have had three years ago. If they'd done it then, we might not be where we are now. Certainly Teresa May's many flaws would have been exposed, and I doubt she'd have won.
Ah well. Better later than never.
> > @TheScreamingEagles said:
>
> > So Rory Stewart is viewed as a suicide bomber who will take out Boris Johnson before backing another candidate.
>
>
>
> What if he gets some momentum?
>
>
>
> https://twitter.com/JeremyCliffe/status/1132291048196268033
>
>
>
> Rory Stewart would be the new Thatcher.
>
> She stood in 1975 to take out Ted Heath.
He is actually very impressive indeed - and a real nice guy. I am not a Tory , but would trust Rory Stewart.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/09/20/boris-johnson-the-david-miliband-de-nos-jours/
> > @TheScreamingEagles said:
>
> The Milibands de nos jours.
>
> As I forecast here
>
> http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/09/20/boris-johnson-the-david-miliband-de-nos-jours/
Brilliant!
> > @TheScreamingEagles said:
>
> > So Rory Stewart is viewed as a suicide bomber who will take out Boris Johnson before backing another candidate.
>
>
>
> What if he gets some momentum?
>
>
>
> https://twitter.com/JeremyCliffe/status/1132291048196268033
>
>
>
> Rory Stewart would be the new Thatcher.
>
> She stood in 1975 to take out Ted Heath.
I do like what he is saying there. Not sure he will get very far but that might in part be because of the very issue he is talking about. Pantomime leaders instead of serious people who have practical solutions.
> BBC 5Live - Rory Stewart refuses to rule out voting against a confidence motion in the government in certain circumstances. He says the country comes before the party.
It will be interesting to see how old-Etonians there are amongst Tory leadership candidates.
And I bet they will each be proclaiming that only they can truly be the voice of the common people.
> To think people said Gove would back Boris this time.
>
> https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1132384136273047552
I would love it to be Gove but I do think the Times missed a trick with that picture. Imagine if instead of him stroking a white dog it had been a white cat....
Ah, Mr Johnson.. we have been expecting you..."
BTW I thought that Rudd's comments were very honest - a Remainer would have no chance with the membership if they made the last two, hence no point running.
> > @TheScreamingEagles said:
> > > @TheScreamingEagles said:
> >
> > > So Rory Stewart is viewed as a suicide bomber who will take out Boris Johnson before backing another candidate.
> >
> >
> >
> > What if he gets some momentum?
> >
> >
> >
> > https://twitter.com/JeremyCliffe/status/1132291048196268033
> >
> >
> >
> > Rory Stewart would be the new Thatcher.
> >
> > She stood in 1975 to take out Ted Heath.
>
> I do like what he is saying there. Not sure he will get very far but that might in part be because of the very issue he is talking about. Pantomime leaders instead of serious people who have practical solutions.
When do we find out whether he made a difference to violence in Prisons?
I'm not trying to make a snarky point here, but if he wasn't able to make progress on that specific problem maybe he's better as someone who can identify the problem with our politics rather than someone who can fix it.
> > @TheScreamingEagles said:
> > To think people said Gove would back Boris this time.
> >
> > https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1132384136273047552 <
>
>
> +++++
>
> GOOD. This is the open, wide, aggressive, all-comers-welcome competition the Tories should have had three years ago. If they'd done it then, we might not be where we are now. Certainly Teresa May's many flaws would have been exposed, and I doubt she'd have won.
>
> Ah well. Better later than never.
Have to agree. It is 14, yes 14, years since a contested Tory leadership. 2005. Before the financial crisis. At a time when they were in opposition coming off a third election defeat. When leaving the EU was but a twinkle in the eye of the most Eurosceptic. When they were choosing someone to beat Blair.
So much has happened. The political and economic landscape profoundly altered. They need a big barney about all sorts. Sadly, it will just be about Europe.