"We have no plans for no deal because we are going to get a good deal."
This is what we were told. If a good deal cannot be had then the referendum result is impossible to deliver in the way the leavers promised and they should have the humility to admit it.
The problem is that in itself, that argument doesn't defeat the position that the reason we don't have the deal Brexiteers promised is that the EU is being unreasonable or that the Prime Minister didn't swing her handbag enough.
It also has the coincidental benefit that the leader gets control of a lot of money and no accountability to those who paid it. For a party supposedly campaigning about democracy, they don't seem very keen on it when it comes to their own affairs.
----------------------------
Democracy is one of those things that is only a good idea in small doses or in the right place. It's like a bit of hot curry powder is great in, well, a curry, but you wouldn't want 10 spoonfuls of it in your morning coffee.
Oh no!! Now you’ve gone and done it! @Nigelb will be asking for it at his local CaffeNero before you know it.
> @Gallowgate said: > Got our 'Labour will deliver Brexit' leaflet through the door today in Newcastle. F*ck 'em. My girlfriend and I, both previous Labour voters (her more so), will be voting Lib Dem.
You're voting for Sir Danny Alexander's party? That practically makes you a Tory.
> Former Coalition Minister Sir Danny Alexander declares the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank of which he is Vice President has raised $2.5 billion in a bond issue to invest in London
I think the anti-Farage brigade are making a big mistake in their attempts at sabotage. Firstly it will probably prove self-defeating anyway but what are the potential repercussions? Tit for tat to start with. Someone needs to show leadership. Little chance of that right now.
> @HYUFD said: > > @Jonathan said: > > > @HYUFD said: > > > Tory MPs increasingly favour a Matt Hancock v Dominic Raab run-off to succeed May reports the Standard > > > > > > https://www.standard.co.uk/news/londoners-diary/the-londoner-dominic-raab-emerges-as-a-male-thatcher-a4142801.html > > > > Raab C Brexit, the guy who couldn't support the deal he negotiated and doesn't understand that Dover is important to the UK economy. Terrific! What a guy! > > Raab is a 'male Thatcher' apparently according to the article with a forensic legal mind, able to get up at dawn and in peak fitness thanks to his gym use and boxing
Even though he does not know Dover is a vital export port
> @SandyRentool said: > > @Gallowgate said: > > Got our 'Labour will deliver Brexit' leaflet through the door today in Newcastle. F*ck 'em. My girlfriend and I, both previous Labour voters (her more so), will be voting Lib Dem. > > You're voting for Sir Danny Alexander's party? That practically makes you a Tory.
I don’t think Remain politicians have gone strong enough on the message . Vote Leave promised a deal. There’s no mandate for no deal . If you want it put it to a second vote.
Funnily enough, that’s exactly what my husband said to me this afternoon about what the Lib Dems should be doing.
He had a critical role to hold off the worst excesses of Tory policy, but happily went along with it. We are not going to agree.
In other words you don't like the fact that he wasn't a Labour stooge prepared to trash the economy as Labour would have done.
The fact is, there are decent and talented politicians in all of the three main parties. He was one of them (and, as I said earlier, a very surprising one - from his background I had no idea that he was so promising).
> Got our 'Labour will deliver Brexit' leaflet through the door today in Newcastle. F*ck 'em. My girlfriend and I, both previous Labour voters (her more so), will be voting Lib Dem.
You're voting for Sir Danny Alexander's party? That practically makes you a Tory.
Voting for a Brexit supporting party practically makes you a Kipper.
> @Richard_Nabavi said: > He had a critical role to hold off the worst excesses of Tory policy, but happily went along with it. We are not going to agree. > > In other words you don't like the fact that he wasn't a Labour stooge prepared to trash the economy as Labour would have done. > > The fact is, there are decent and talented politicians in all of the three main parties. He was one of them (and, as I said earlier, a very surprising one - from his background I had no idea that he was so promising).
He was a LibDem in what was supposed to be a Coalition. Instead of balance he enthusiastically pursuing an aggressive Tory economic policy. I am not a fan.
He had a critical role to hold off the worst excesses of Tory policy, but happily went along with it. We are not going to agree.
In other words you don't like the fact that he wasn't a Labour stooge prepared to trash the economy as Labour would have done.
The fact is, there are decent and talented politicians in all of the three main parties. He was one of them (and, as I said earlier, a very surprising one - from his background I had no idea that he was so promising).
I don't doubt his ability. Just that he served in 1 government, not in a major role, and then flies off to feather his nest off the back of that experience. Hardly deserves what is essentially one of the highest civil awards available.
> @Richard_Nabavi said: > He had a critical role to hold off the worst excesses of Tory policy, but happily went along with it. We are not going to agree. > > In other words you don't like the fact that he wasn't a Labour stooge prepared to trash the economy as Labour would have done. > > The fact is, there are decent and talented politicians in all of the three main parties. He was one of them (and, as I said earlier, a very surprising one - from his background I had no idea that he was so promising).
His background? You mean not having been to a public school?
> @Cyclefree said: > I don’t think Remain politicians have gone strong enough on the message . Vote Leave promised a deal. There’s no mandate for no deal . If you want it put it to a second vote. > > Funnily enough, that’s exactly what my husband said to me this afternoon about what the Lib Dems should be doing.
> Christian fundamentalists are daft. The whole point of the NT was that it was New Covenant - but they revert to parsing the OT
So basically the OT is backstory that you can ignore if you're in a hurry?
I thought the OT was important because it established JC's legitimacy by referring back to it. But maybe I'm wrong.
I was simplifying
The histories and the prophecies are relevant and interesting. The poetry is beautiful.
However the Pentateuch (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) is not a manual for life as fundamentalists believe.
They set out the backstory and terms of Abraham’s Covenant, including very detailed rules, symbols (such as circumcision) and sacrifices. Jesus’s sacrifice was the basis of the New Covenant which fulfilled the prophecies, started a new arc in history and replaced the original covenant
He had a critical role to hold off the worst excesses of Tory policy, but happily went along with it. We are not going to agree.
In other words you don't like the fact that he wasn't a Labour stooge prepared to trash the economy as Labour would have done.
The fact is, there are decent and talented politicians in all of the three main parties. He was one of them (and, as I said earlier, a very surprising one - from his background I had no idea that he was so promising).
I don't doubt his ability. Just that he served in 1 government, not in a major role, and then flies off to feather his nest off the back of that experience. Hardly deserves what is essentially one of the highest civil awards available.
He was a member of the Quad - one of the most powerful individuals in the coalition
> @Jonathan said: > > @Cyclefree said: > > I don’t think Remain politicians have gone strong enough on the message . Vote Leave promised a deal. There’s no mandate for no deal . If you want it put it to a second vote. > > > > Funnily enough, that’s exactly what my husband said to me this afternoon about what the Lib Dems should be doing. > > We need solutions, not slogans.
The EU ref was won on slogans . Remainers need to stop faffing about trying to complicate things . Leavers are happy to drone on about what Cameron said so why shouldn’t Remainers do the same to Vote Leave .
The simple message is no deal doesn’t have a mandate .
Former Coalition Minister Sir Danny Alexander declares the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank of which he is Vice President has raised $2.5 billion in a bond issue to invest in London
He richly deserves it. He was an excellent minister, which was certainly a surprise to me. He acted in the interests of the country, and he was one of the very few LibDem ministers who understood what coalition should be about and who explained policy decisions properly and without childish tribalism (Steve Webb was another). It's a great pity that the LibDems in general didn't act as he did - if they had done, they'd have done much better in 2015.
I'd respectfully disagree. Alexander trampled over the promises of the Lib Dem manifesto with more glee than any other of their MPs.
In the 2010 manifesto, which he co-ordinated, the Lib Dems promised to invest in public transport by cancelling the major roads programme.
In 2013, he delightedly announced "the biggest programme of investment in our roads in 40 years". Here it is.
A coalition means you don't get everything you want. Fine. But there's a difference between "not everything you want" and "a 180° U-turn from the policies you were elected on". As the Lib Dems famously found out.
I wouldn't have rejoined the party if Alexander were still an MP. He was the epitome of everything that was wrong with the Coalition.
> @Sandpit said: > > @Scott_P said: > > > https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1128718552045883398 > > > > > > Imagine some of the comments from certain posters on here if it were a group of Farage supporters going round intimidating remainers and breaking up their party meetings. > > > > It would be a game of brownshirt / kristallnacht / mosely / fascist bingo. > > Even if one disagrees with everything Farage says and stands for, trying to prevent him from speaking just play into his hands.
We had people on here last week posting pictures of Mosley addressing huge crowds in response to pictures of people attending Brexit Party rallies.
Feel free to condemn the tactics of the Brownshirt Remainers now, guys.
Or, perhaps we could just stop bandying the word "fascist" about willy nilly to mean "anyone whose opinions I don't like", lest it give further encouragement to the type of people who really do think it's acceptable to use force to initmidate their opponents and break up political rallies.
> @nico67 said: > > @Jonathan said: > > > @Cyclefree said: > > > I don’t think Remain politicians have gone strong enough on the message . Vote Leave promised a deal. There’s no mandate for no deal . If you want it put it to a second vote. > > > > > > Funnily enough, that’s exactly what my husband said to me this afternoon about what the Lib Dems should be doing. > > > > We need solutions, not slogans. > > The EU ref was won on slogans . Remainers need to stop faffing about trying to complicate things . Leavers are happy to drone on about what Cameron said so why shouldn’t Remainers do the same to Vote Leave . > > The simple message is no deal doesn’t have a mandate .
I can see the temptation, but just don’t buy polarising the debate further is going to help.
He had a critical role to hold off the worst excesses of Tory policy, but happily went along with it. We are not going to agree.
In other words you don't like the fact that he wasn't a Labour stooge prepared to trash the economy as Labour would have done.
The fact is, there are decent and talented politicians in all of the three main parties. He was one of them (and, as I said earlier, a very surprising one - from his background I had no idea that he was so promising).
I don't doubt his ability. Just that he served in 1 government, not in a major role, and then flies off to feather his nest off the back of that experience. Hardly deserves what is essentially one of the highest civil awards available.
He was a member of the Quad - one of the most powerful individuals in the coalition
And how does him being Clegg's mate make him deserving of a knighthood?
We as a nation need to decide whether a Knighthood is supposed to be a civic award for role models or a tool of cronyism.
> @Charles said: > He had a critical role to hold off the worst excesses of Tory policy, but happily went along with it. We are not going to agree. > > In other words you don't like the fact that he wasn't a Labour stooge prepared to trash the economy as Labour would have done. > > The fact is, there are decent and talented politicians in all of the three main parties. He was one of them (and, as I said earlier, a very surprising one - from his background I had no idea that he was so promising). > > I don't doubt his ability. Just that he served in 1 government, not in a major role, and then flies off to feather his nest off the back of that experience. Hardly deserves what is essentially one of the highest civil awards available. > > He was a member of the Quad - one of the most powerful individuals in the coalition
Like any good master Cameron made sure he rewarded his most loyal servants.
He had a critical role to hold off the worst excesses of Tory policy, but happily went along with it. We are not going to agree.
In other words you don't like the fact that he wasn't a Labour stooge prepared to trash the economy as Labour would have done.
The fact is, there are decent and talented politicians in all of the three main parties. He was one of them (and, as I said earlier, a very surprising one - from his background I had no idea that he was so promising).
I don't doubt his ability. Just that he served in 1 government, not in a major role, and then flies off to feather his nest off the back of that experience. Hardly deserves what is essentially one of the highest civil awards available.
He was a member of the Quad - one of the most powerful individuals in the coalition
And how does him being Clegg's mate make him deserving of a knighthood?
We as a nation need to decide whether a Knighthood is supposed to be a civic award for role models or a tool of cronyism.
> I don’t think Remain politicians have gone strong enough on the message . Vote Leave promised a deal. There’s no mandate for no deal . If you want it put it to a second vote.
>
> Funnily enough, that’s exactly what my husband said to me this afternoon about what the Lib Dems should be doing.
> @Jonathan said: > > @nico67 said: > > > @Jonathan said: > > > > @Cyclefree said: > > > > I don’t think Remain politicians have gone strong enough on the message . Vote Leave promised a deal. There’s no mandate for no deal . If you want it put it to a second vote. > > > > > > > > Funnily enough, that’s exactly what my husband said to me this afternoon about what the Lib Dems should be doing. > > > > > > We need solutions, not slogans. > > > > The EU ref was won on slogans . Remainers need to stop faffing about trying to complicate things . Leavers are happy to drone on about what Cameron said so why shouldn’t Remainers do the same to Vote Leave . > > > > The simple message is no deal doesn’t have a mandate . > > I can see the temptation, but just don’t buy polarising the debate further is going to help.
How is staying what Vote Leave said polarizing the debate . What are Remainers supposed to do. It’s Leavers who started up the traitor , quisling , betrayal etc. saying no deal doesn’t have a mandate is perfectly fine .
> I was simplifying > > The histories and the prophecies are relevant and interesting. The poetry is beautiful. > > However the Pentateuch (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) is not a manual for life as fundamentalists believe. > > They set out the backstory and terms of Abraham’s Covenant, including very detailed rules, symbols (such as circumcision) and sacrifices. Jesus’s sacrifice was the basis of the New Covenant which fulfilled the prophecies, started a new arc in history and replaced the original covenant
> @ah009 said: > > @Sandpit said: > > Even if one disagrees with everything Farage says and stands for, trying to prevent him from speaking just play into his hands. > > I didn't watch it, but wasn't Farage talking over the other guests on a recent political panel show? Is that different?
It shouldn't be necessary to say it but ..yes. Now it's way past bedtime so off you go.
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @nico67 said: > > Oh poor Nigel . A few Remain supporters turned up and now he’s playing the martyr . > > > > Shall we start a Je Suis Nigel# campaign . > > Like him or loath him he is good at winding people up and remainers trying to blockade him is a gift he will take full advantage off
Seeing as it's in a supermarket car park then I guess the appropriate response would be "every little helps"?
Former Coalition Minister Sir Danny Alexander declares the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank of which he is Vice President has raised $2.5 billion in a bond issue to invest in London
He richly deserves it. He was an excellent minister, which was certainly a surprise to me. He acted in the interests of the country, and he was one of the very few LibDem ministers who understood what coalition should be about and who explained policy decisions properly and without childish tribalism (Steve Webb was another). It's a great pity that the LibDems in general didn't act as he did - if they had done, they'd have done much better in 2015.
I'd respectfully disagree. Alexander trampled over the promises of the Lib Dem manifesto with more glee than any other of their MPs.
In the 2010 manifesto, which he co-ordinated, the Lib Dems promised to invest in public transport by cancelling the major roads programme.
In 2013, he delightedly announced "the biggest programme of investment in our roads in 40 years". Here it is.
A coalition means you don't get everything you want. Fine. But there's a difference between "not everything you want" and "a 180° U-turn from the policies you were elected on". As the Lib Dems famously found out.
I wouldn't have rejoined the party if Alexander were still an MP. He was the epitome of everything that was wrong with the Coalition.
That's the attitude which caused the LibDems to crash so badly in 2015. As I said, you trashed your own brand - having campaigned for coalition-style government for decades, when you got it you went around looking like someone whose pet hamster just died, and laying into your coalition partners as though they were wickedness incarnate - inviting your voters on all sides of your support base to ask 'If the Tories are so awful, why on earth did you go into coalition with them?'.
Fortunately for you, the two main parties now are engaged in an even bigger exercise of political self-harm, so by default you might now be able to recover. But at some point you're going to have to answer the question of which other party you'd work with.
Fortunately for you, the two main parties now are engaged in an even bigger exercise of political self-harm, so by default you might now be able to recover. But at some point you're going to have to answer the question of which other party you'd work with.
There's some truth in that, certainly. I do suspect, though, that the more pressing question is not so much "who do we work with" but "how do we work with them".
I can see advantages in working with either Labour or the Conservatives (over the grand arc - I'm not sure there's any point working with either of them right now). But the approach taken in 2010-15 evidently didn't work for the Lib Dems and worked very nicely indeed for the Conservatives.
> @solarflare said: > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > @nico67 said: > > > Oh poor Nigel . A few Remain supporters turned up and now he’s playing the martyr . > > > > > > Shall we start a Je Suis Nigel# campaign . > > > > Like him or loath him he is good at winding people up and remainers trying to blockade him is a gift he will take full advantage off > > Seeing as it's in a supermarket car park then I guess the appropriate response would be "every little helps"?
Considering Leavers block supermarkets just because of the nationality of the supermarket, I don't think they are in any position to complain about blockades at supermarkets
> @Cyclefree said: > > @Cyclefree said: > > > I don’t think Remain politicians have gone strong enough on the message . Vote Leave promised a deal. There’s no mandate for no deal . If you want it put it to a second vote. > > > > > > Funnily enough, that’s exactly what my husband said to me this afternoon about what the Lib Dems should be doing. > > > > We need solutions, not slogans. > > So what is yours? Solution, I mean. Not slogan.
There are only three possible options.
Deal No Deal Remain
However there is currently no majority for any. The solution is to force a majority either in parliament or in a second vote.
Since the first has failed, it has to be the second.
Everything points to a BP win at the EU elections .
A few things to digest .
Men are more likely to vote , they tend to lean more towards Brexit , those who have already voted by post show a decent lead for the BP. Overall forecast turnout is higher for the BP.
As a Remainer it gives me no pleasure to have to report this but looking through all the recent polls those factors are constant .
If things change I’ll be happy to report this but at the moment the BP has many factors in its favour .
I think they’re likely to top 30% , what happens to the rest is still the bigger uncertainty IMO.
> The histories and the prophecies are relevant and interesting. The poetry is beautiful.
>
> However the Pentateuch (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) is not a manual for life as fundamentalists believe.
>
> They set out the backstory and terms of Abraham’s Covenant, including very detailed rules, symbols (such as circumcision) and sacrifices. Jesus’s sacrifice was the basis of the New Covenant which fulfilled the prophecies, started a new arc in history and replaced the original covenant
Thanks for elaborating.
The Great Commandment (and the second commandment) replace the Ten Commandments, for example.
> @solarflare said: > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > @nico67 said: > > > Oh poor Nigel . A few Remain supporters turned up and now he’s playing the martyr . > > > > > > Shall we start a Je Suis Nigel# campaign . > > > > Like him or loath him he is good at winding people up and remainers trying to blockade him is a gift he will take full advantage off > > Seeing as it's in a supermarket car park then I guess the appropriate response would be "every little helps"? <
+++++
When the Brexit Part'y's USP is "our democratic voices are being silenced", the idea that by "silencing the democratic voices of the Brexit Party" you might somehow undermine them is.... interesting.
It is also stupid, wanky, arrogant, twattish, narcissistic and supremely myopic and self indulgent, and, as such, everything you have come to expect from Remainerdom, since June 2016. And I speak as a Remainer.
Remain really did deserve to lose. Sadly. And they would probably contrive to lose again, given the chance.
Interesting developments at the Guildford BC meeting tonight where a new Leader was elected.
After the recent elections, the new composition was LD 17 R4GV 15 CON 9 GGG 4 LAB 2 GRN 1
I believe the Conservatives offered their services as kingmakers to both the LDs and the R4GV/GGG group of local Independents. The LDs and R4GV also met but no deal was done and the two groups each put their leader up to be Council leader tonight.
The LD leader won 23-19 with 4 abstentions - the numbers are a bit confusing. It has been reported 5 Conservatives and the 2 Labour members supported the LD while the other four Conservatives (including the Mayor) abstained. I suspect the Green voted with the R4GV/GGG group.
So we have a minority LD administration it seems but the Conservative Group split down the middle as to whether it should be supported.
Waverley, another Surrey Council where the Conservatives lost overall control, holds its AGM next Tuesday. Reports of "constructive" meetings between Farnham Residents, LDs and the Conservatives. I can't see a tripartite administration however.
Comments
> Got our 'Labour will deliver Brexit' leaflet through the door today in Newcastle. F*ck 'em. My girlfriend and I, both previous Labour voters (her more so), will be voting Lib Dem.
You're voting for Sir Danny Alexander's party? That practically makes you a Tory.
> Even if one disagrees with everything Farage says and stands for, trying to prevent him from speaking just play into his hands.
I didn't watch it, but wasn't Farage talking over the other guests on a recent political panel show? Is that different?
> > @Jonathan said:
> > > @HYUFD said:
> > > Tory MPs increasingly favour a Matt Hancock v Dominic Raab run-off to succeed May reports the Standard
> > >
> > > https://www.standard.co.uk/news/londoners-diary/the-londoner-dominic-raab-emerges-as-a-male-thatcher-a4142801.html
> >
> > Raab C Brexit, the guy who couldn't support the deal he negotiated and doesn't understand that Dover is important to the UK economy. Terrific! What a guy!
>
> Raab is a 'male Thatcher' apparently according to the article with a forensic legal mind, able to get up at dawn and in peak fitness thanks to his gym use and boxing
Even though he does not know Dover is a vital export port
> > @Gallowgate said:
> > Got our 'Labour will deliver Brexit' leaflet through the door today in Newcastle. F*ck 'em. My girlfriend and I, both previous Labour voters (her more so), will be voting Lib Dem.
>
> You're voting for Sir Danny Alexander's party? That practically makes you a Tory.
Key word 'practically', ask TSE!!
The fact is, there are decent and talented politicians in all of the three main parties. He was one of them (and, as I said earlier, a very surprising one - from his background I had no idea that he was so promising).
> Be nice
>
> She’s promoting numeracy not literacy
>
> 👿
>
> Try JRM for literacy...
>
> https://twitter.com/j_amesmarriott/status/1128696996196433920
<
++++++
In a surprise to no one, it turns out that the reviewer of JRM's book, author A N Wilson, is an ardent Remainer.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/are-you-an-eu-nob-or-a-non-eu-oik-xbb2mbnml
> He had a critical role to hold off the worst excesses of Tory policy, but happily went along with it. We are not going to agree.
>
> In other words you don't like the fact that he wasn't a Labour stooge prepared to trash the economy as Labour would have done.
>
> The fact is, there are decent and talented politicians in all of the three main parties. He was one of them (and, as I said earlier, a very surprising one - from his background I had no idea that he was so promising).
He was a LibDem in what was supposed to be a Coalition. Instead of balance he enthusiastically pursuing an aggressive Tory economic policy. I am not a fan.
If they really wanted to annoy Farage, they would have arranged their Merthyr Tydfil demonstration so that he couldn't get out.
> He had a critical role to hold off the worst excesses of Tory policy, but happily went along with it. We are not going to agree.
>
> In other words you don't like the fact that he wasn't a Labour stooge prepared to trash the economy as Labour would have done.
>
> The fact is, there are decent and talented politicians in all of the three main parties. He was one of them (and, as I said earlier, a very surprising one - from his background I had no idea that he was so promising).
His background? You mean not having been to a public school?
> I don’t think Remain politicians have gone strong enough on the message . Vote Leave promised a deal. There’s no mandate for no deal . If you want it put it to a second vote.
>
> Funnily enough, that’s exactly what my husband said to me this afternoon about what the Lib Dems should be doing.
We need solutions, not slogans.
The histories and the prophecies are relevant and interesting. The poetry is beautiful.
However the Pentateuch (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) is not a manual for life as fundamentalists believe.
They set out the backstory and terms of Abraham’s Covenant, including very detailed rules, symbols (such as circumcision) and sacrifices. Jesus’s sacrifice was the basis of the New Covenant which fulfilled the prophecies, started a new arc in history and replaced the original covenant
> We need solutions, not slogans.
>
> That sounds suspiciously like a slogan.
I know, good isn’t it! 😀
> > @Cyclefree said:
> > I don’t think Remain politicians have gone strong enough on the message . Vote Leave promised a deal. There’s no mandate for no deal . If you want it put it to a second vote.
> >
> > Funnily enough, that’s exactly what my husband said to me this afternoon about what the Lib Dems should be doing.
>
> We need solutions, not slogans.
The EU ref was won on slogans . Remainers need to stop faffing about trying to complicate things . Leavers are happy to drone on about what Cameron said so why shouldn’t Remainers do the same to Vote Leave .
The simple message is no deal doesn’t have a mandate .
In the 2010 manifesto, which he co-ordinated, the Lib Dems promised to invest in public transport by cancelling the major roads programme.
In 2013, he delightedly announced "the biggest programme of investment in our roads in 40 years". Here it is.
A coalition means you don't get everything you want. Fine. But there's a difference between "not everything you want" and "a 180° U-turn from the policies you were elected on". As the Lib Dems famously found out.
I wouldn't have rejoined the party if Alexander were still an MP. He was the epitome of everything that was wrong with the Coalition.
> > @Scott_P said:
>
> > https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1128718552045883398
>
>
>
>
>
> Imagine some of the comments from certain posters on here if it were a group of Farage supporters going round intimidating remainers and breaking up their party meetings.
>
>
>
> It would be a game of brownshirt / kristallnacht / mosely / fascist bingo.
>
> Even if one disagrees with everything Farage says and stands for, trying to prevent him from speaking just play into his hands.
We had people on here last week posting pictures of Mosley addressing huge crowds in response to pictures of people attending Brexit Party rallies.
Feel free to condemn the tactics of the Brownshirt Remainers now, guys.
Or, perhaps we could just stop bandying the word "fascist" about willy nilly to mean "anyone whose opinions I don't like", lest it give further encouragement to the type of people who really do think it's acceptable to use force to initmidate their opponents and break up political rallies.
Looks like the rally is going ahead anyway
https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1128725545372381184
> > @Jonathan said:
> > > @Cyclefree said:
> > > I don’t think Remain politicians have gone strong enough on the message . Vote Leave promised a deal. There’s no mandate for no deal . If you want it put it to a second vote.
> > >
> > > Funnily enough, that’s exactly what my husband said to me this afternoon about what the Lib Dems should be doing.
> >
> > We need solutions, not slogans.
>
> The EU ref was won on slogans . Remainers need to stop faffing about trying to complicate things . Leavers are happy to drone on about what Cameron said so why shouldn’t Remainers do the same to Vote Leave .
>
> The simple message is no deal doesn’t have a mandate .
I can see the temptation, but just don’t buy polarising the debate further is going to help.
We as a nation need to decide whether a Knighthood is supposed to be a civic award for role models or a tool of cronyism.
>
> https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1128725545372381184
Lots of fire aimed at Labour. "No longer the party of Keir Hardie."
> https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1128725218116108290
>
>
> Looks like the rally is going ahead anyway
>
>
> https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1128725545372381184
Course it will, Ann Widders started to walk purposely towards them and they all ran off.
> He had a critical role to hold off the worst excesses of Tory policy, but happily went along with it. We are not going to agree.
>
> In other words you don't like the fact that he wasn't a Labour stooge prepared to trash the economy as Labour would have done.
>
> The fact is, there are decent and talented politicians in all of the three main parties. He was one of them (and, as I said earlier, a very surprising one - from his background I had no idea that he was so promising).
>
> I don't doubt his ability. Just that he served in 1 government, not in a major role, and then flies off to feather his nest off the back of that experience. Hardly deserves what is essentially one of the highest civil awards available.
>
> He was a member of the Quad - one of the most powerful individuals in the coalition
Like any good master Cameron made sure he rewarded his most loyal servants.
> > @GIN1138 said:
> >
> > https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1128725545372381184
>
> Lots of fire aimed at Labour. "No longer the party of Keir Hardie."
That’s terribly unfair. He was anti-Semitic.
> > @nico67 said:
> > > @Jonathan said:
> > > > @Cyclefree said:
> > > > I don’t think Remain politicians have gone strong enough on the message . Vote Leave promised a deal. There’s no mandate for no deal . If you want it put it to a second vote.
> > > >
> > > > Funnily enough, that’s exactly what my husband said to me this afternoon about what the Lib Dems should be doing.
> > >
> > > We need solutions, not slogans.
> >
> > The EU ref was won on slogans . Remainers need to stop faffing about trying to complicate things . Leavers are happy to drone on about what Cameron said so why shouldn’t Remainers do the same to Vote Leave .
> >
> > The simple message is no deal doesn’t have a mandate .
>
> I can see the temptation, but just don’t buy polarising the debate further is going to help.
How is staying what Vote Leave said polarizing the debate . What are Remainers supposed to do. It’s Leavers who started up the traitor , quisling , betrayal etc. saying no deal doesn’t have a mandate is perfectly fine .
Shall we start a Je Suis Nigel# campaign .
> I was simplifying
>
> The histories and the prophecies are relevant and interesting. The poetry is beautiful.
>
> However the Pentateuch (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) is not a manual for life as fundamentalists believe.
>
> They set out the backstory and terms of Abraham’s Covenant, including very detailed rules, symbols (such as circumcision) and sacrifices. Jesus’s sacrifice was the basis of the New Covenant which fulfilled the prophecies, started a new arc in history and replaced the original covenant
Thanks for elaborating.
>
> His background? You mean not having been to a public school?
I've no idea what school he went to, and never bothered to look it up. Are you obsessed with public schools for some reason?
> > @Sandpit said:
> > Even if one disagrees with everything Farage says and stands for, trying to prevent him from speaking just play into his hands.
>
> I didn't watch it, but wasn't Farage talking over the other guests on a recent political panel show? Is that different?
It shouldn't be necessary to say it but ..yes. Now it's way past bedtime so off you go.
> Oh poor Nigel . A few Remain supporters turned up and now he’s playing the martyr .
>
> Shall we start a Je Suis Nigel# campaign .
Like him or loath him he is good at winding people up and remainers trying to blockade him is a gift he will take full advantage off
> > @nico67 said:
> > Oh poor Nigel . A few Remain supporters turned up and now he’s playing the martyr .
> >
> > Shall we start a Je Suis Nigel# campaign .
>
> Like him or loath him he is good at winding people up and remainers trying to blockade him is a gift he will take full advantage off
Seeing as it's in a supermarket car park then I guess the appropriate response would be "every little helps"?
Fortunately for you, the two main parties now are engaged in an even bigger exercise of political self-harm, so by default you might now be able to recover. But at some point you're going to have to answer the question of which other party you'd work with.
But that's not difficult, as he is a fool.
I can see advantages in working with either Labour or the Conservatives (over the grand arc - I'm not sure there's any point working with either of them right now). But the approach taken in 2010-15 evidently didn't work for the Lib Dems and worked very nicely indeed for the Conservatives.
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > @nico67 said:
> > > Oh poor Nigel . A few Remain supporters turned up and now he’s playing the martyr .
> > >
> > > Shall we start a Je Suis Nigel# campaign .
> >
> > Like him or loath him he is good at winding people up and remainers trying to blockade him is a gift he will take full advantage off
>
> Seeing as it's in a supermarket car park then I guess the appropriate response would be "every little helps"?
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/probrexit-protesters-block-off-aldi-depot-because-its-a-german-company-a4116816.html
Considering Leavers block supermarkets just because of the nationality of the supermarket, I don't think they are in any position to complain about blockades at supermarkets
> > @Cyclefree said:
>
> > I don’t think Remain politicians have gone strong enough on the message . Vote Leave promised a deal. There’s no mandate for no deal . If you want it put it to a second vote.
>
> >
>
> > Funnily enough, that’s exactly what my husband said to me this afternoon about what the Lib Dems should be doing.
>
>
>
> We need solutions, not slogans.
>
> So what is yours? Solution, I mean. Not slogan.
There are only three possible options.
Deal
No Deal
Remain
However there is currently no majority for any. The solution is to force a majority either in parliament or in a second vote.
Since the first has failed, it has to be the second.
A few things to digest .
Men are more likely to vote , they tend to lean more towards Brexit , those who have already voted by post show a decent lead for the BP. Overall forecast turnout is higher for the BP.
As a Remainer it gives me no pleasure to have to report this but looking through all the recent polls those factors are constant .
If things change I’ll be happy to report this but at the moment the BP has many factors in its favour .
I think they’re likely to top 30% , what happens to the rest is still the bigger uncertainty IMO.
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > @nico67 said:
> > > Oh poor Nigel . A few Remain supporters turned up and now he’s playing the martyr .
> > >
> > > Shall we start a Je Suis Nigel# campaign .
> >
> > Like him or loath him he is good at winding people up and remainers trying to blockade him is a gift he will take full advantage off
>
> Seeing as it's in a supermarket car park then I guess the appropriate response would be "every little helps"? <
+++++
When the Brexit Part'y's USP is "our democratic voices are being silenced", the idea that by "silencing the democratic voices of the Brexit Party" you might somehow undermine them is.... interesting.
It is also stupid, wanky, arrogant, twattish, narcissistic and supremely myopic and self indulgent, and, as such, everything you have come to expect from Remainerdom, since June 2016. And I speak as a Remainer.
Remain really did deserve to lose. Sadly. And they would probably contrive to lose again, given the chance.
Interesting developments at the Guildford BC meeting tonight where a new Leader was elected.
After the recent elections, the new composition was LD 17 R4GV 15 CON 9 GGG 4 LAB 2 GRN 1
I believe the Conservatives offered their services as kingmakers to both the LDs and the R4GV/GGG group of local Independents. The LDs and R4GV also met but no deal was done and the two groups each put their leader up to be Council leader tonight.
The LD leader won 23-19 with 4 abstentions - the numbers are a bit confusing. It has been reported 5 Conservatives and the 2 Labour members supported the LD while the other four Conservatives (including the Mayor) abstained. I suspect the Green voted with the R4GV/GGG group.
So we have a minority LD administration it seems but the Conservative Group split down the middle as to whether it should be supported.
Waverley, another Surrey Council where the Conservatives lost overall control, holds its AGM next Tuesday. Reports of "constructive" meetings between Farnham Residents, LDs and the Conservatives. I can't see a tripartite administration however.
> It shouldn't be necessary to say it but ..yes. Now it's way past bedtime so off you go.
Sorry, are you trying to stop me speaking? Hmm