Mr. Roger, those keenest on banging on about empire are pro-EU types, busily inventing fictional arguments and attributing said arguments to their opponents.
If it weren't screwing up the country and you didn't care much about Brexit, it would actually be hugely entertaining to watch the way Theresa May is playing the ERG.
I love all these blustering old fools, spluttering and spitting but actually achieving completely nothing.
She just goes on and on and on.
She just needs to hold out a few more weeks then she outlasts Brown.
> @NickPalmer said: > > @RobD said: > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1126128960780292096 > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1126129401307881473 > > > > > > > > It boggles the mind why May agreed to this. > > I don't like Maduro, but if Pompeo hates him, let me have another think. More seriously, I think the collapse of the opposition coup against an indisputably dreadful government is partly due to its embrace by the US. Disliking your government is one thing, wanting to help a foreign country to overthrow it is something else.
I am surprised you haven't condemned Maduro outright for the way he has made his people suffer. No excuses, he is a disgrace to his people and hiding behind the US objection to him is straight out of the Corbyn's playbook
Mr. P, I don't save the comments made by posters here.
I certainly don't save every comment everyone makes, then sort them into categories so I can provide statistical evidence.
The last comment you can clearly see, by Mr. Roger, bangs on about the fictitious desire for empire espoused by pro-EU sorts and falsely attributed to EU-sceptics.
There have been similar comments from various pro-EU people in the past.
Mr. Roger, those keenest on banging on about empire are pro-EU types
Link?
I haven’t seen a single Leaver on here bring up “the good old days of empire”, it’s always Remainers imputing motives on others to discredit them. In reality no one actually holds those views.
It’s only Remainers who keep talking about it (negatively) as some kind of folk memory. It’s Remainers who are fighting the battles of the past, still living in a post-war mentality.
> @TGOHF said: > > @Mysticrose said: > > > @williamglenn said: > > > She thinks the country will reject the deal and vote Remain. > > > > > > Perhaps what she's waiting for is the moment when that victory will be so emphatic that she will be thanked for it, and so definitive that the Conservative party gives up on Euroscepticism. > > > > She's quite driven by the idea of legacy, isn't she? I'm not sure that's a good recipe for leadership. I don't think Cameron could be accused of it, nor probably John Major. > > > > Her overriding concern has been delivering Brexit, which with hindsight was a near-impossible task. > > > > I think she's determined to try and get a deal over the line, no matter what the cost. > > She's going to do a Gordon Brown - she'll stay locked in no 10 even after she loses a GE then have to be led down the street by her spouse and into a car before the meds wear off. > >
Gordon Brown was the opposite. He resigned early forcing the queen to approve the next prime minister before a government had been agreed between the Conservatives and the Lib Dems. In many other countries that would be considered as a serious neglect of a prime minister's responsibility.
Wow Peterborough is going to be an interesting result to watch. By-elections don't necessarily mean that much in the big scheme so the Euros on May 23rd are far more of a shifter but if the BP win both, as seems possible, then there will be some traction and momentum.
But Peterborough is just so difficult to call. On the face of it, Labour ought to win easily. But Corbyn is poison so I'm not sure.
A united PV candidate could do well, despite coming from a non-existent base.
So I reckon the really interesting one here will be to bet on the Conservatives coming 4th. Seriously. Brexit Party / Labour for 1st and 2nd, Remain Alliance PV 3rd and a massive tory slump to 4th.
I don’t really think Labour ought to win easily.
They won in 2017, but they were promising to deliver Brexit to a 60% Leave constituency, and have voted it down instead. Throw in that the MP is now a convicted criminal and proven liar and I think TBP should be favs, and Labour might even come 3rd to a People’s Vote alliance
Wow Peterborough is going to be an interesting result to watch. By-elections don't necessarily mean that much in the big scheme so the Euros on May 23rd are far more of a shifter but if the BP win both, as seems possible, then there will be some traction and momentum.
But Peterborough is just so difficult to call. On the face of it, Labour ought to win easily. But Corbyn is poison so I'm not sure.
A united PV candidate could do well, despite coming from a non-existent base.
So I reckon the really interesting one here will be to bet on the Conservatives coming 4th. Seriously. Brexit Party / Labour for 1st and 2nd, Remain Alliance PV 3rd and a massive tory slump to 4th.
I don’t really think Labour ought to win easily.
They won in 2017, but they were promising to deliver Brexit to a 60% Leave constituency, and have voted it down instead. Throw in that the MP is now a convicted criminal and proven liar and I think TBP should be favs, and Labour might even come 3rd to a People’s Vote alliance
People dont seem to care all that much if the former person is a criminal. Not to the state of punishing the party which chose them.
Bottom line for me is Labour are not generally down as much as the Tories, whod have a chance but for the timing, and the others have such a mountain to climb. Not a certainty but its theirs to lose.
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @NickPalmer said: > > > @RobD said: > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1126128960780292096 > > > > > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1126129401307881473 > > > > > > > > > > > > It boggles the mind why May agreed to this. > > > > I don't like Maduro, but if Pompeo hates him, let me have another think. More seriously, I think the collapse of the opposition coup against an indisputably dreadful government is partly due to its embrace by the US. Disliking your government is one thing, wanting to help a foreign country to overthrow it is something else. > > I am surprised you haven't condemned Maduro outright for the way he has made his people suffer. No excuses, he is a disgrace to his people and hiding behind the US objection to him is straight out of the Corbyn's playbook
No idea why you're surprised. NP segued from Blairite to Corbynite with ease.
Mr. P, I don't save the comments made by posters here.
I certainly don't save every comment everyone makes, then sort them into categories so I can provide statistical evidence.
The last comment you can clearly see, by Mr. Roger, bangs on about the fictitious desire for empire espoused by pro-EU sorts and falsely attributed to EU-sceptics.
There have been similar comments from various pro-EU people in the past.
There is a wicked part of me that wants to cite the fictitious identification by anti-EU sorts of a fictitious desire for Empire identified by pro-EU sorts and falsely attributed by the anti-EU sorts to the pro-EU sorts of falsely attributing to anti-EU sorts.
Not as an argument, I just wanted to see if I could construct the sentence...
> @felix said: > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > @NickPalmer said: > > > > @RobD said: > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1126128960780292096 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1126129401307881473 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It boggles the mind why May agreed to this. > > > > > > I don't like Maduro, but if Pompeo hates him, let me have another think. More seriously, I think the collapse of the opposition coup against an indisputably dreadful government is partly due to its embrace by the US. Disliking your government is one thing, wanting to help a foreign country to overthrow it is something else. > > > > I am surprised you haven't condemned Maduro outright for the way he has made his people suffer. No excuses, he is a disgrace to his people and hiding behind the US objection to him is straight out of the Corbyn's playbook > > No idea why you're surprised. NP segued from Blairite to Corbynite with ease.
I have a lot of respect for Nick even though we have different views, but any kind of excuse for Moduro is a step too far for me
> @Pulpstar said: > @Dadge I know you're a sizable bettor, how are you playing the Dem Nomination in the US elections right now ?
Actually I haven't really done any betting for a couple of years. If I was betting I think I'd play safe and put a few bob on Biden. Perhaps he shouldn't even be standing, but against Trump he's a safe (reasonably undivisive) choice that most on the left can get behind.
> @kle4 said: > > @kle4 said: > > > May and Jezza arguing over NHS. Jezza banging on about how the Tories voted against it in 1940s. > > > > > > > > > > > > Utterly dire stuff again. > > > > > > Blimey. I know most of our politicians are obsessed with the past one way or another, but come on. > > > > It's being obsessed with the past that led us to Brexit. They think if we go back to the past we'll have an empire again #Fruitcakes > > Some. Not as many as you may think. But yes, the obsession with the past was not a partisan point, they're all at it.
Pro or Anti-Brexit, right or left wing, lots of people view our recent history as a journey from Eden to Hell.
Mr. F, there's an interesting theory (maybe Deist?) that in the story of us leaving Eden, God is the villain and Satan (Lucifer, perhaps equivalent to Prometheus) is the hero.
God denies us knowledge and demands our obedience. Satan persuades us to step beyond the bounds set for us and learn more, to better ourselves.
So what is wrong with betting on Jacob RM at 85 to be next tory leader and laying at 46 to be next PM? Chance of tories splitting and JRM leading a faction is significant or he might become acting PM but not next leader of tories or .... ???
> Wow Peterborough is going to be an interesting result to watch. By-elections don't necessarily mean that much in the big scheme so the Euros on May 23rd are far more of a shifter but if the BP win both, as seems possible, then there will be some traction and momentum. > > > > But Peterborough is just so difficult to call. On the face of it, Labour ought to win easily. But Corbyn is poison so I'm not sure. > > > > A united PV candidate could do well, despite coming from a non-existent base. > > > > So I reckon the really interesting one here will be to bet on the Conservatives coming 4th. Seriously. Brexit Party / Labour for 1st and 2nd, Remain Alliance PV 3rd and a massive tory slump to 4th. > > I don’t really think Labour ought to win easily. > > They won in 2017, but they were promising to deliver Brexit to a 60% Leave constituency, and have voted it down instead. Throw in that the MP is now a convicted criminal and proven liar and I think TBP should be favs, and Labour might even come 3rd to a People’s Vote alliance > > People dont seem to care all that much if the former person is a criminal. Not to the state of punishing the party which chose them. > > Bottom line for me is Labour are not generally down as much as the Tories, whod have a chance but for the timing, and the others have such a mountain to climb. Not a certainty but its theirs to lose.
Labour ought to win the Peterborough by-election because they're the defending party and in opposition. Those alone should be sufficient grounds. It is always an awful performance for an opposition party to lose a seat. Throw in the state of the government and for Labour to lose, when between them Con+Lab won 95% in 2017, it'd be an appalling result.
This, of course, doesn't mean it can't happen; just that if it does, Labour are in a shocking state - one masked only by the state of the Tories.
> @crandles said: > So what is wrong with betting on Jacob RM at 85 to be next tory leader and laying at 46 to be next PM? > Chance of tories splitting and JRM leading a faction is significant or he might become acting PM but not next leader of tories or .... ???
You are tying up money in your Betfair account at 46-1. If the bets don't settle for 12 months, then any profits you make have been absorbed by lost interest income.
> Wow Peterborough is going to be an interesting result to watch. By-elections don't necessarily mean that much in the big scheme so the Euros on May 23rd are far more of a shifter but if the BP win both, as seems possible, then there will be some traction and momentum.
>
>
>
> But Peterborough is just so difficult to call. On the face of it, Labour ought to win easily. But Corbyn is poison so I'm not sure.
>
>
>
> A united PV candidate could do well, despite coming from a non-existent base.
>
>
>
> So I reckon the really interesting one here will be to bet on the Conservatives coming 4th. Seriously. Brexit Party / Labour for 1st and 2nd, Remain Alliance PV 3rd and a massive tory slump to 4th.
>
> I don’t really think Labour ought to win easily.
>
> They won in 2017, but they were promising to deliver Brexit to a 60% Leave constituency, and have voted it down instead. Throw in that the MP is now a convicted criminal and proven liar and I think TBP should be favs, and Labour might even come 3rd to a People’s Vote alliance
>
> People dont seem to care all that much if the former person is a criminal. Not to the state of punishing the party which chose them.
>
> Bottom line for me is Labour are not generally down as much as the Tories, whod have a chance but for the timing, and the others have such a mountain to climb. Not a certainty but its theirs to lose.
Labour ought to win the Peterborough by-election because they're the defending party and in opposition. Those alone should be sufficient grounds. It is always an awful performance for an opposition party to lose a seat. Throw in the state of the government and for Labour to lose, when between them Con+Lab won 95% in 2017, it'd be an appalling result.
This, of course, doesn't mean it can't happen; just that if it does, Labour are in a shocking state - one masked only by the state of the Tories.
In 2017 both parties were promising to implement Brexit while UKIP stood aside. I really think that GE’s form should be ignored
> @rcs1000 said: > > @crandles said: > > So what is wrong with betting on Jacob RM at 85 to be next tory leader and laying at 46 to be next PM? > > Chance of tories splitting and JRM leading a faction is significant or he might become acting PM but not next leader of tories or .... ??? > > You are tying up money in your Betfair account at 46-1. If the bets don't settle for 12 months, then any profits you make have been absorbed by lost interest income. > >
May has to stay on for Euro elections to be someone to blame for even more disastrous results than local; but surely then she is toast. A couple of months is a bit different than a year. Yes I didn't tie up my money at 46 and anyone doing so now may well want to find some other similar weird prices to add to the income from the money tied up. Still surprised prices seem to be getting further apart rather than nearer.
> @Charles said: > By George, this is quite a take-down. Problem is, what are the betting implications? Based on this it would probably be 'bet against Corbyn' but it's impossible to rule out the possibility of Corbyn becoming our Prime minister, all the bluster about locals etc, the next elected PM will either be an unknown Tory or Corbyn. > > > > Some of the 'time to retire' comments are pure fantasy, I even saw a comment on here a while back saying Corbyn has cancer and John McDonnell is poised to swoop in. Quite an intense claim to spuriously spread about. > > > > I get he's a marmite figure and I consistently voted against him, but to laser in on the locals or dream of him suddenly retiring or dying(!) ignores the reality that he is about 30 gains away from implementing his socialist utopia. Considering where he started from, doesn't look impossible... > > @Ploppikins > > Just to be clear, when I posted the comment about Corbyn being unwell I explicitly stated it was third hand gossip from the Westminster circle and I had no way of validating it. > > So there was no spurious spreading of rumours just a factual statement of what I had been told. It’s up to other people to decided if/how to factor their betting,
Ok, thank you for taking the time to clarify, I accept your point and agree it is very much down to the individual if they act on this or not.
My gripe isn't with the information, more that people with an anti-corbyn sentiment shouldn't seize on this hoping he will be gone soon. Of course, people people are free to bet however they like, just my two cents.
Comments
> > @RobD said:
> > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1126128960780292096
> >
> >
> >
> > https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1126129401307881473
> >
> >
> >
> > It boggles the mind why May agreed to this.
>
> I don't like Maduro, but if Pompeo hates him, let me have another think. More seriously, I think the collapse of the opposition coup against an indisputably dreadful government is partly due to its embrace by the US. Disliking your government is one thing, wanting to help a foreign country to overthrow it is something else.
I am surprised you haven't condemned Maduro outright for the way he has made his people suffer. No excuses, he is a disgrace to his people and hiding behind the US objection to him is straight out of the Corbyn's playbook
This Season's must-have item. The Auschwitz-themed mini-skirt,
I certainly don't save every comment everyone makes, then sort them into categories so I can provide statistical evidence.
The last comment you can clearly see, by Mr. Roger, bangs on about the fictitious desire for empire espoused by pro-EU sorts and falsely attributed to EU-sceptics.
There have been similar comments from various pro-EU people in the past.
It’s only Remainers who keep talking about it (negatively) as some kind of folk memory. It’s Remainers who are fighting the battles of the past, still living in a post-war mentality.
> > @Mysticrose said:
> > > @williamglenn said:
> > > She thinks the country will reject the deal and vote Remain.
> > >
> > > Perhaps what she's waiting for is the moment when that victory will be so emphatic that she will be thanked for it, and so definitive that the Conservative party gives up on Euroscepticism.
> >
> > She's quite driven by the idea of legacy, isn't she? I'm not sure that's a good recipe for leadership. I don't think Cameron could be accused of it, nor probably John Major.
> >
> > Her overriding concern has been delivering Brexit, which with hindsight was a near-impossible task.
> >
> > I think she's determined to try and get a deal over the line, no matter what the cost.
>
> She's going to do a Gordon Brown - she'll stay locked in no 10 even after she loses a GE then have to be led down the street by her spouse and into a car before the meds wear off.
>
>
Gordon Brown was the opposite. He resigned early forcing the queen to approve the next prime minister before a government had been agreed between the Conservatives and the Lib Dems. In many other countries that would be considered as a serious neglect of a prime minister's responsibility.
Bottom line for me is Labour are not generally down as much as the Tories, whod have a chance but for the timing, and the others have such a mountain to climb. Not a certainty but its theirs to lose.
> > @NickPalmer said:
> > > @RobD said:
> > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1126128960780292096
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1126129401307881473
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It boggles the mind why May agreed to this.
> >
> > I don't like Maduro, but if Pompeo hates him, let me have another think. More seriously, I think the collapse of the opposition coup against an indisputably dreadful government is partly due to its embrace by the US. Disliking your government is one thing, wanting to help a foreign country to overthrow it is something else.
>
> I am surprised you haven't condemned Maduro outright for the way he has made his people suffer. No excuses, he is a disgrace to his people and hiding behind the US objection to him is straight out of the Corbyn's playbook
No idea why you're surprised. NP segued from Blairite to Corbynite with ease.
Not as an argument, I just wanted to see if I could construct the sentence...
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > @NickPalmer said:
> > > > @RobD said:
> > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1126128960780292096
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1126129401307881473
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It boggles the mind why May agreed to this.
> > >
> > > I don't like Maduro, but if Pompeo hates him, let me have another think. More seriously, I think the collapse of the opposition coup against an indisputably dreadful government is partly due to its embrace by the US. Disliking your government is one thing, wanting to help a foreign country to overthrow it is something else.
> >
> > I am surprised you haven't condemned Maduro outright for the way he has made his people suffer. No excuses, he is a disgrace to his people and hiding behind the US objection to him is straight out of the Corbyn's playbook
>
> No idea why you're surprised. NP segued from Blairite to Corbynite with ease.
I have a lot of respect for Nick even though we have different views, but any kind of excuse for Moduro is a step too far for me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY41eD4lS28
> @Dadge I know you're a sizable bettor, how are you playing the Dem Nomination in the US elections right now ?
Actually I haven't really done any betting for a couple of years. If I was betting I think I'd play safe and put a few bob on Biden. Perhaps he shouldn't even be standing, but against Trump he's a safe (reasonably undivisive) choice that most on the left can get behind.
> > @kle4 said:
>
> > May and Jezza arguing over NHS. Jezza banging on about how the Tories voted against it in 1940s.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Utterly dire stuff again.
>
> >
>
> > Blimey. I know most of our politicians are obsessed with the past one way or another, but come on.
>
>
>
> It's being obsessed with the past that led us to Brexit. They think if we go back to the past we'll have an empire again #Fruitcakes
>
> Some. Not as many as you may think. But yes, the obsession with the past was not a partisan point, they're all at it.
Pro or Anti-Brexit, right or left wing, lots of people view our recent history as a journey from Eden to Hell.
God denies us knowledge and demands our obedience. Satan persuades us to step beyond the bounds set for us and learn more, to better ourselves.
Chance of tories splitting and JRM leading a faction is significant or he might become acting PM but not next leader of tories or .... ???
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1126143792770375680
>
>
>
> But Peterborough is just so difficult to call. On the face of it, Labour ought to win easily. But Corbyn is poison so I'm not sure.
>
>
>
> A united PV candidate could do well, despite coming from a non-existent base.
>
>
>
> So I reckon the really interesting one here will be to bet on the Conservatives coming 4th. Seriously. Brexit Party / Labour for 1st and 2nd, Remain Alliance PV 3rd and a massive tory slump to 4th.
>
> I don’t really think Labour ought to win easily.
>
> They won in 2017, but they were promising to deliver Brexit to a 60% Leave constituency, and have voted it down instead. Throw in that the MP is now a convicted criminal and proven liar and I think TBP should be favs, and Labour might even come 3rd to a People’s Vote alliance
>
> People dont seem to care all that much if the former person is a criminal. Not to the state of punishing the party which chose them.
>
> Bottom line for me is Labour are not generally down as much as the Tories, whod have a chance but for the timing, and the others have such a mountain to climb. Not a certainty but its theirs to lose.
Labour ought to win the Peterborough by-election because they're the defending party and in opposition. Those alone should be sufficient grounds. It is always an awful performance for an opposition party to lose a seat. Throw in the state of the government and for Labour to lose, when between them Con+Lab won 95% in 2017, it'd be an appalling result.
This, of course, doesn't mean it can't happen; just that if it does, Labour are in a shocking state - one masked only by the state of the Tories.
> So what is wrong with betting on Jacob RM at 85 to be next tory leader and laying at 46 to be next PM?
> Chance of tories splitting and JRM leading a faction is significant or he might become acting PM but not next leader of tories or .... ???
You are tying up money in your Betfair account at 46-1. If the bets don't settle for 12 months, then any profits you make have been absorbed by lost interest income.
> > @crandles said:
> > So what is wrong with betting on Jacob RM at 85 to be next tory leader and laying at 46 to be next PM?
> > Chance of tories splitting and JRM leading a faction is significant or he might become acting PM but not next leader of tories or .... ???
>
> You are tying up money in your Betfair account at 46-1. If the bets don't settle for 12 months, then any profits you make have been absorbed by lost interest income.
>
>
May has to stay on for Euro elections to be someone to blame for even more disastrous results than local; but surely then she is toast. A couple of months is a bit different than a year. Yes I didn't tie up my money at 46 and anyone doing so now may well want to find some other similar weird prices to add to the income from the money tied up. Still surprised prices seem to be getting further apart rather than nearer.
> By George, this is quite a take-down. Problem is, what are the betting implications? Based on this it would probably be 'bet against Corbyn' but it's impossible to rule out the possibility of Corbyn becoming our Prime minister, all the bluster about locals etc, the next elected PM will either be an unknown Tory or Corbyn.
>
>
>
> Some of the 'time to retire' comments are pure fantasy, I even saw a comment on here a while back saying Corbyn has cancer and John McDonnell is poised to swoop in. Quite an intense claim to spuriously spread about.
>
>
>
> I get he's a marmite figure and I consistently voted against him, but to laser in on the locals or dream of him suddenly retiring or dying(!) ignores the reality that he is about 30 gains away from implementing his socialist utopia. Considering where he started from, doesn't look impossible...
>
> @Ploppikins
>
> Just to be clear, when I posted the comment about Corbyn being unwell I explicitly stated it was third hand gossip from the Westminster circle and I had no way of validating it.
>
> So there was no spurious spreading of rumours just a factual statement of what I had been told. It’s up to other people to decided if/how to factor their betting,
Ok, thank you for taking the time to clarify, I accept your point and agree it is very much down to the individual if they act on this or not.
My gripe isn't with the information, more that people with an anti-corbyn sentiment shouldn't seize on this hoping he will be gone soon. Of course, people people are free to bet however they like, just my two cents.