> What are campaigners supposed to do other than keep the attention on the issue and pressure on politicians? This is the most important issue in the world right now, why such a bitter response to somebody doing their best?
It was a motion that has no effect.
It wasn't actually taken to a vote - just that no-one shouted No so there was no division.
It was pure gesture politics on the part of the Labour Party that changes NOTHING.
Oh, I thought you were talking about Greta and the campaigners. Yes, Labour should be doing more than just this motion though they are somewhat restricted by being in opposition and by the Tory psychodrama of Brexit occupying everyone's attention
> @MikeSmithson said: > > @Sandpit said: > > Interesting gossip > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1123685667236732928 > > > > > > > > Can’t see them going with George, he’s got way too much baggage and is likely to repel potential Tory switchers. Let him stand as an Indy to take some Lab votes away, then run a well-known and clean local candidate for the Brexit Party. > > I thought Nigel was going to be the BP candidate
Problem with Galloway is that he has a track record of winning by-elections. If he stands, he will build a local party machine very quickly, boost the members ego's and, win. Because once elected, he won't give a monkeys for them, and they will be (Un)lucky if they ever see him again except on TV. It's his game plan, perfected several times.
> @Stereotomy said: > > @Stereotomy said: > > > > @Foxy said: > > > > > > > I see Greta is magnanimous in victory. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/GretaThunberg/status/1123675465774981120 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gesture politics - nothing more, nothing less > > > > > > What are campaigners supposed to do other than keep the attention on the issue and pressure on politicians? This is the most important issue in the world right now, why such a bitter response to somebody doing their best? > > > > It was a motion that has no effect. > > It wasn't actually taken to a vote - just that no-one shouted No so there was no division. > > > > It was pure gesture politics on the part of the Labour Party that changes NOTHING. > > Oh, I thought you were talking about Greta and the campaigners. Yes, Labour should be doing more than just this motion though they are somewhat restricted by being in opposition and by the Tory psychodrama of Brexit occupying everyone's attention
A credible opposition party would be setting out detailed proposals, proper costings and timelines - showing they really understood.
Corbyn is the one who stood for the leadership of his party promising to reopen the coal mines... now that isn't very carbon neutral
> @Thayer5 said: > Why on earth did she address her constituents, the good people of Peterborough.... from a tower in midtown Manhattan?
When my dad was growing up in Bexhill (1920s), the Mayor was a former Governor in India, now getting on a bit. Called upon to speak at a civic reception, he started absent-mindedly, "Good citizens of Bombay..."
> > What are campaigners supposed to do other than keep the attention on the issue and pressure on politicians? This is the most important issue in the world right now, why such a bitter response to somebody doing their best?
>
>
>
> It was a motion that has no effect.
>
> It wasn't actually taken to a vote - just that no-one shouted No so there was no division.
>
>
>
> It was pure gesture politics on the part of the Labour Party that changes NOTHING.
>
> Snip
A credible opposition party would be setting out detailed proposals, proper costings and timelines - showing they really understood.
Corbyn is the one who stood for the leadership of his party promising to reopen the coal mines... now that isn't very carbon neutral
> Given the Brexit Party doesn't have any other policies, I would have thought the demographic would be very, very similar.
>
> I assume that’s why TBP is polling 52% in the EP election polls?
TBP is leading the EP polls, and that is based around an electorate that was 52:48 in favour of Brexit.
Peterborough is significantly more Brexit than the country as a whole.
And:
(a) The former Labour MP was found guilty of a serious criminal offence
(b) The Conservative Party is in (at best) disarray, and thousands of activists are publicly saying they are backing the Brexit Party
(c) The LibDems and ChUK are likely to split any hardcore Remain vote between them.
But let's go back to your original point.
TBP is getting about 60% of the Leave vote in the EP polls right now.
If they get 60% of the Leave vote in Peterborough they will end up in the low 40s and take it at a canter. I doubt they'll do that well.
But they should be able get into at least the mid 30s. Now, that might not be enough to take it, particularly if Labour chooses their candidate wisely. But it should be enough for a really good performance.
Using the conversion rate of an EP poll, where the smaller pool of likely voters are more engaged than in a general or by-election, is a bit disingenuous. The latest yougov has TBP getting 30% of Leavers in its Westminster poll, so TBP only has a chance either in very heavily leave areas, or areas where the demographics mean that the extra voters who turn up in a general are less inclined to vote for one of the mainstream parties. Peterborough is not such a place.
> @John_McLean said: > > @MikeSmithson said: > > > @Sandpit said: > > > Interesting gossip > > > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1123685667236732928 > > > > > > > > > > > > Can’t see them going with George, he’s got way too much baggage and is likely to repel potential Tory switchers. Let him stand as an Indy to take some Lab votes away, then run a well-known and clean local candidate for the Brexit Party. > > > > I thought Nigel was going to be the BP candidate > > Problem with Galloway is that he has a track record of winning by-elections. If he stands, he will build a local party machine very quickly, boost the members ego's and, win. Because once elected, he won't give a monkeys for them, and they will be (Un)lucky if they ever see him again except on TV. It's his game plan, perfected several times.
If Galloway enters as an Independent, he has the ability to draw the votes of a signifcant number of Labour Leavers. Policy-wise, he's barely distinguishable from Corbyn.
How about Galloway as the official Labour candidate?
> @brokenwheel said: > Using the conversion rate of an EP poll, where the smaller pool of likely voters are more engaged than in a general or by-election, is a bit disingenuous. The latest yougov has TBP getting 30% of Leavers in its Westminster poll, so TBP only has a chance either in very heavily leave areas, or areas where the demographics mean that the extra voters who turn up in a general are less inclined to vote for one of the mainstream parties. Peterborough is not such a place.
Sure, but the Brexit Party (and the LibDems, Greens and ChUK) should do better at by-elections than at General Elections.
UKIP managed a string of impressive performances in the 2010 to 2015 period, against a more credible government. I might mention Eastleigh (+24%), South Shields (+24%), Wythenshawe (+14%), Newark (+22%), Heywood & Middleton (+36%).
I know you're keen to play the expectations management game, and I get that, but the Brexit Party should get at least 35%. And if I can get anything better than 3-2 at the bookies on them winning the seat, I will be piling on. Really, chances won't come much better than this.
Ooh we have called something an emergency - the planet is saved!
What exactly are they going to do practically:
Ensure MPs and all people with double barrelled names fully let out all the rooms in their multiple homes to poor families to minimise wasteful energy use. Starting with Chequers. Make the Cabinet and Ministers cycle everywhere and thus scrap their ministerial cars Stop flying and Going on foreign trips and holidays - skiing trips are fine as long as you post photos on Instagram afterwards Turn off the heating in parliament in winter?
Or is real action just for the plebs to experience?
As you say - it’s just tokenism!
I’ll believe the climate change activists are actually serious, when they hold a worldwide conference using telepresence technology.
Greta came to London by train.
Get with the Zeitgeist guys! No point in being conservative when there is nothing left to conserve.
> Using the conversion rate of an EP poll, where the smaller pool of likely voters are more engaged than in a general or by-election, is a bit disingenuous. The latest yougov has TBP getting 30% of Leavers in its Westminster poll, so TBP only has a chance either in very heavily leave areas, or areas where the demographics mean that the extra voters who turn up in a general are less inclined to vote for one of the mainstream parties. Peterborough is not such a place.
Sure, but the Brexit Party (and the LibDems, Greens and ChUK) should do better at by-elections than at General Elections.
UKIP managed a string of impressive performances in the 2010 to 2015 period, against a more credible government. I might mention Eastleigh (+24%), South Shields (+24%), Wythenshawe (+14%), Newark (+22%), Heywood & Middleton (+36%).
I know you're keen to play the expectations management game, and I get that, but the Brexit Party should get at least 35%. And if I can get anything better than 3-2 at the bookies on them winning the seat, I will be piling on. Really, chances won't come much better than this.
Not expectations management at all; I said the same before Stoke Central when everyone on here was getting excited for MP Nuttall, as that was a seat I have a passing knowledge of. It’s not my loss, I’m just trying to point out there won’t be a straight connection between Leave percentage and TBP performance, some Leave seats are much more winnable than others with similar numbers.
> @rcs1000 said: > > @John_McLean said: > > > @MikeSmithson said: > > > > @Sandpit said: > > > > Interesting gossip > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1123685667236732928 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can’t see them going with George, he’s got way too much baggage and is likely to repel potential Tory switchers. Let him stand as an Indy to take some Lab votes away, then run a well-known and clean local candidate for the Brexit Party. > > > > > > I thought Nigel was going to be the BP candidate > > > > Problem with Galloway is that he has a track record of winning by-elections. If he stands, he will build a local party machine very quickly, boost the members ego's and, win. Because once elected, he won't give a monkeys for them, and they will be (Un)lucky if they ever see him again except on TV. It's his game plan, perfected several times. > > If Galloway enters as an Independent, he has the ability to draw the votes of a signifcant number of Labour Leavers. Policy-wise, he's barely distinguishable from Corbyn. > > How about Galloway as the official Labour candidate?
My recollection is that the last time he stood he got a derisory figure?
Comments
> > @Sandpit said:
> > Interesting gossip
> >
> > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1123685667236732928
> >
> >
> >
> > Can’t see them going with George, he’s got way too much baggage and is likely to repel potential Tory switchers. Let him stand as an Indy to take some Lab votes away, then run a well-known and clean local candidate for the Brexit Party.
>
> I thought Nigel was going to be the BP candidate
Problem with Galloway is that he has a track record of winning by-elections. If he stands, he will build a local party machine very quickly, boost the members ego's and, win. Because once elected, he won't give a monkeys for them, and they will be (Un)lucky if they ever see him again except on TV. It's his game plan, perfected several times.
> > @Stereotomy said:
>
> > > @Foxy said:
>
> >
>
> > > I see Greta is magnanimous in victory.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > https://twitter.com/GretaThunberg/status/1123675465774981120
>
>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Gesture politics - nothing more, nothing less
>
> >
>
> > What are campaigners supposed to do other than keep the attention on the issue and pressure on politicians? This is the most important issue in the world right now, why such a bitter response to somebody doing their best?
>
>
>
> It was a motion that has no effect.
>
> It wasn't actually taken to a vote - just that no-one shouted No so there was no division.
>
>
>
> It was pure gesture politics on the part of the Labour Party that changes NOTHING.
>
> Oh, I thought you were talking about Greta and the campaigners. Yes, Labour should be doing more than just this motion though they are somewhat restricted by being in opposition and by the Tory psychodrama of Brexit occupying everyone's attention
A credible opposition party would be setting out detailed proposals, proper costings and timelines - showing they really understood.
Corbyn is the one who stood for the leadership of his party promising to reopen the coal mines... now that isn't very carbon neutral
> Why on earth did she address her constituents, the good people of Peterborough.... from a tower in midtown Manhattan?
When my dad was growing up in Bexhill (1920s), the Mayor was a former Governor in India, now getting on a bit. Called upon to speak at a civic reception, he started absent-mindedly, "Good citizens of Bombay..."
Well Labour has an environment policy, right? https://www.labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/The-Green-Transformation-.pdf and https://www.labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Achieving-6025-by-2030-final-version.pdf . Maybe there's a more up to date document or detailed document somewhere, I'm not sure. I don't know if that meets your standards for detail, but it seems pretty standard for an opposition party in midterm. Do you have some reference of work done by a more credible opposition party in the past to describe what you're looking for?
> > @MikeSmithson said:
> > > @Sandpit said:
> > > Interesting gossip
> > >
> > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1123685667236732928
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Can’t see them going with George, he’s got way too much baggage and is likely to repel potential Tory switchers. Let him stand as an Indy to take some Lab votes away, then run a well-known and clean local candidate for the Brexit Party.
> >
> > I thought Nigel was going to be the BP candidate
>
> Problem with Galloway is that he has a track record of winning by-elections. If he stands, he will build a local party machine very quickly, boost the members ego's and, win. Because once elected, he won't give a monkeys for them, and they will be (Un)lucky if they ever see him again except on TV. It's his game plan, perfected several times.
If Galloway enters as an Independent, he has the ability to draw the votes of a signifcant number of Labour Leavers. Policy-wise, he's barely distinguishable from Corbyn.
How about Galloway as the official Labour candidate?
https://twitter.com/ChristianJMay/status/1123709856660295680
> Using the conversion rate of an EP poll, where the smaller pool of likely voters are more engaged than in a general or by-election, is a bit disingenuous. The latest yougov has TBP getting 30% of Leavers in its Westminster poll, so TBP only has a chance either in very heavily leave areas, or areas where the demographics mean that the extra voters who turn up in a general are less inclined to vote for one of the mainstream parties. Peterborough is not such a place.
Sure, but the Brexit Party (and the LibDems, Greens and ChUK) should do better at by-elections than at General Elections.
UKIP managed a string of impressive performances in the 2010 to 2015 period, against a more credible government. I might mention Eastleigh (+24%), South Shields (+24%), Wythenshawe (+14%), Newark (+22%), Heywood & Middleton (+36%).
I know you're keen to play the expectations management game, and I get that, but the Brexit Party should get at least 35%. And if I can get anything better than 3-2 at the bookies on them winning the seat, I will be piling on. Really, chances won't come much better than this.
Get with the Zeitgeist guys! No point in being conservative when there is nothing left to conserve.
> > @John_McLean said:
> > > @MikeSmithson said:
> > > > @Sandpit said:
> > > > Interesting gossip
> > > >
> > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1123685667236732928
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Can’t see them going with George, he’s got way too much baggage and is likely to repel potential Tory switchers. Let him stand as an Indy to take some Lab votes away, then run a well-known and clean local candidate for the Brexit Party.
> > >
> > > I thought Nigel was going to be the BP candidate
> >
> > Problem with Galloway is that he has a track record of winning by-elections. If he stands, he will build a local party machine very quickly, boost the members ego's and, win. Because once elected, he won't give a monkeys for them, and they will be (Un)lucky if they ever see him again except on TV. It's his game plan, perfected several times.
>
> If Galloway enters as an Independent, he has the ability to draw the votes of a signifcant number of Labour Leavers. Policy-wise, he's barely distinguishable from Corbyn.
>
> How about Galloway as the official Labour candidate?
My recollection is that the last time he stood he got a derisory figure?
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