> @SandyRentool said: > So who is the greater threat to national security - the person responsible for the leak or those who want to place an IT contract with the Chinese secret service?
Clearly I would say the latter. But that does not excuse the former.
There's something disturbing about a rally for 'human rights' including images of Stalin, Lenin and Mao, who were absolutely uninterested in such things and indeed considered both words far subordinate to the goal of Communism.
Leaving McDonnell out of it, for the moment, I really struggle with people who seem to be fans of Stalin and Mao. How do they justify that? Why do people supporting them, however many it is, not provoke more of a reaction?
> @kle4 said: > On whether Williamson should face trial I should think there's a difference between there being sufficient reason to reasonably conclude he was responsible and being able to prove it definitively. Which of course he would use to protest innocence even if he was guilty, but it will be interesting if it is revealed he has been hard done by.
This is true. The general standard in human affairs is +50% probability - 'the balance of probability' which means of course that the judgement is quite possibly wrong. The criminal standard is to be 'satisfied so that you are sure' or 'beyond reasonable doubt'. So it is very very common for an action to be taken on a basis, for example in employment issues, which would not lead to successful criminal prosecution. This is the source of the notable difficulty in single allegation sexual offences cases, with their very high acquittal rate. Sadly no amount of understandable feminist protest can undo this fundamental problem of the nature of justice.
I'll be surprised if there are any successful criminal cases here.
> @kle4 said: > > @FrancisUrquhart said: > > I presume john didnt see the banners as per usual... > > > > https://twitter.com/JBickertonUK/status/1123580005714415616?s=19 > > Leaving McDonnell out of it, for the moment, I really struggle with people who seem to be fans of Stalin and Mao. How do they justify that? Why do people supporting them, however many it is, not provoke more of a reaction?
If that was posters of Hitler, just imagine the reaction...
> Yes, but what other situations would not be clear cut when they involve prison time? The recall process doesn't trigger until after appeals, so have the same in the case of any custodial sentence - that way anyone who is in fact innocent and is willing to fight it is not turfed out until then.
>
> Many times people have been arrested protesting when protest was justified, as an example. Can you not think of any examples in history where people were made criminals for trying to do the right thing?
You're thinking of Tony Blair, right?
Never been sure about the whole drag him off to the hague thing (if that is the reference)
A good example might be Trump, I'd rather he was taken out by democratic means. That would go for any opponent or ally.
> @GIN1138 said: > > @Quincel said: > > The more I look at Peterborough the more I think it's Labour's to lose, more like 70-80% chance of winning than 50:50. Brexit Party will do well, but they will take far more votes from the Tories than Labour (judging by EU polling). They could come through and win it, but Labour has a strong local operation (recently drilled on the locals) and Farage doesn't. Plus there's got to be a decent chance Brexit Party chooses a candidate who gets in their own way. > > Brexit Party needs to pitch this as a "teach the whole establishment a lesson they'll never forget" by election - That means getting a candidate that's outside of politics (NOT the Gorgeous One then )
Peterborough is over 60% Leave if the Brexit Party gain it from Labour that would be bad news for Corbyn but even more so for Labour EUref2 backers
> @brokenwheel said: > > @brokenwheel said: > > > Just run Farage. He's a true icon and folk hero to a demography which doesn't get much better in one seat than this. If they wait for a by-election in Clacton he'll be waiting forever. He needn't even fear losing, he's lost loads of times before and he's still where he is now. > > > > > > Indeed. Peterborough is the right demographic for Farage and this is the right time. > > > > > > > > > It actually isn’t, for a start the part of Peterborough in the constituency is about a quarter foreign born. There are a lot of seats which have better demographics. > > > > > > But yeah of course people are going to make out this is a must-win much like Stoke Central for Nuttall when these actually are bad places to run. > > > > How many seats are more than 60% leave vote in 2016? If Farage can only win in perfect conditions then that's not good enough. This is plenty fertile territory compared to your average seat. > > Well over a hundred, including Stoke Central... > > It’s not a simple case of mobilising the Leave vote, the people who will actually vote TBP or UKIP is not exactly the same demographic.
Almost exactly 100, as it happens. Using the Chris Hanretty estimates, Peterborough is the 530th most Leave-voting seat in Great Britain (he didn't cover NI). That isn't perfect, but it's a well above average seat for TBP and while it's a tad younger than the UK average it's a good slug less qualified (degree-wise). Almost double the UK average for long-term unemployed. It's a very solid example of an area which has done poorly for a while and saw Leave as a way to change that/signal their feelings at being left behind.
He can't just wait for a by-election in the perfect seats. Peterborough is well above average in many key indicators, particularly Leave vote.
> Yes, but what other situations would not be clear cut when they involve prison time? The recall process doesn't trigger until after appeals, so have the same in the case of any custodial sentence - that way anyone who is in fact innocent and is willing to fight it is not turfed out until then.
>
> Many times people have been arrested protesting when protest was justified, as an example. Can you not think of any examples in history where people were made criminals for trying to do the right thing?
You're thinking of Tony Blair, right?
Never been sure about the whole drag him off to the hague thing (if that is the reference)
A good example might be Trump, I'd rather he was taken out by democratic means. That would go for any opponent or ally.
Surely the best reason for dragging Blair off to The Hague is to find out the answer to the most controversial question about his premiership.
> @twistedfirestopper3 said: > I'm not sure what you want. They should be held to the same standard as most of the rest of the population. I don't know of any job at my level where I could get an 11 month and 29 day prison sentence and walk straight back into my job. I'd be lucky to keep mine if I got a week in the nick. > Politicians are so far away from us that they have lost touch with reality.
It's a bit sweeping - not all employers feel that way. A senior colleague in IT who I knew in Novartis (the Swiss multinational) was sentenced to a year's open prison, which under local law requires overnight stay but allow the prisoner to work in the daytime (to avoid the common problem of people losing their jobs and plunging into deeper crime). Novartis decided that as the offence was committed in his private time and didn't threaten company security, it would not be fair to increase his punishment by sacking him.
> @brokenwheel said: > > @brokenwheel said: > > > Just run Farage. He's a true icon and folk hero to a demography which doesn't get much better in one seat than this. If they wait for a by-election in Clacton he'll be waiting forever. He needn't even fear losing, he's lost loads of times before and he's still where he is now. > > > > > > Indeed. Peterborough is the right demographic for Farage and this is the right time. > > > > > > > > > It actually isn’t, for a start the part of Peterborough in the constituency is about a quarter foreign born. There are a lot of seats which have better demographics. > > > > > > But yeah of course people are going to make out this is a must-win much like Stoke Central for Nuttall when these actually are bad places to run. > > > > How many seats are more than 60% leave vote in 2016? If Farage can only win in perfect conditions then that's not good enough. This is plenty fertile territory compared to your average seat. > > Well over a hundred, including Stoke Central... > > It’s not a simple case of mobilising the Leave vote, the people who will actually vote TBP or UKIP is not exactly the same demographic.
Is it not?
Given the Brexit Party doesn't have any other policies, I would have thought the demographic would be very, very similar.
If things get sticky for May in the “prove it” department, I suspect she’ll let it be known that being a dick and not co-operating with Sedwill were grounds enough for his sacking. Co-operating and demonstrating his innocence would have cleared him.
This is not like an office boss getting rid of a junior without due process - cabinet ministers serve at her pleasure rather than under the terms of the Employment Act. And politically, it’s probably fair to assume that most backbenchers and certainly members will take a dim view of his being a dick and not co-operating - and undoubtedly of leaking from the NSC.
> @FrancisUrquhart said: > > @kle4 said: > > > @FrancisUrquhart said: > > > I presume john didnt see the banners as per usual... > > > > > > https://twitter.com/JBickertonUK/status/1123580005714415616?s=19 > > > > Leaving McDonnell out of it, for the moment, I really struggle with people who seem to be fans of Stalin and Mao. How do they justify that? Why do people supporting them, however many it is, not provoke more of a reaction? > > If that was posters of Hitler, just imagine the reaction...
Perhaps the banners were present but not involved?
> @FF43 said: > If I understand this thread correctly, Grayling signed up the ferry companies to start from March 29 in the absence of a deal agreed with the EU rather than from when No Deal actually kicks in, if it does. So we need to pay for 6 months of ferries during which we will definitely not be in a No Deal situation. We may have No Deal after six months, in which case another contract will need to be arranged. > > It takes a special level of incompetence to pay compensation to an injured party for unfairly awarding a contract for a service that never gets delivered, then be sued for compensation by another party because of that compensation to the first party AND STILL pay for the service that never got delivered. > > https://twitter.com/beckie__smith/status/1123560317689180160
The extra ferries have been sailing back and forth, so in that sense it was delivered.
> How many seats are more than 60% leave vote in 2016? If Farage can only win in perfect conditions then that's not good enough. This is plenty fertile territory compared to your average seat. > > Well over a hundred, including Stoke Central...
> It’s not a simple case of mobilising the Leave vote, the people who will actually vote TBP or UKIP is not exactly the same demographic.
Almost exactly 100, as it happens. Using the Chris Hanretty estimates, Peterborough is the 530th most Leave-voting seat in Great Britain (he didn't cover NI). That isn't perfect, but it's a well above average seat for TBP and while it's a tad younger than the UK average it's a good slug less qualified (degree-wise). Almost double the UK average for long-term unemployed. It's a very solid example of an area which has done poorly for a while and saw Leave as a way to change that/signal their feelings at being left behind.
He can't just wait for a by-election in the perfect seats. Peterborough is well above average in many key indicators, particularly Leave vote.
Given that even on current Westminster polling TBP are predicted to only get a handful of seats then yes it’s not realistic to expect a seat 100 places down the list to produce a victory.
And as I said, Leave % is not going to be a good predictor of TBP success.
> Leaving McDonnell out of it, for the moment, I really struggle with >people who seem to be fans of Stalin and Mao. How do they justify >that? Why do people supporting them, however many it is, not >provoke more of a reaction?
They think, as per Diane Abbot, that "Mao did more good than harm." Even if that meant killing tens of millions, it was worth it to advance the cause.
> @HYUFD said: > > @GIN1138 said: > > > @Quincel said: > > > The more I look at Peterborough the more I think it's Labour's to lose, more like 70-80% chance of winning than 50:50. Brexit Party will do well, but they will take far more votes from the Tories than Labour (judging by EU polling). They could come through and win it, but Labour has a strong local operation (recently drilled on the locals) and Farage doesn't. Plus there's got to be a decent chance Brexit Party chooses a candidate who gets in their own way. > > > > Brexit Party needs to pitch this as a "teach the whole establishment a lesson they'll never forget" by election - That means getting a candidate that's outside of politics (NOT the Gorgeous One then ) > > Peterborough is over 60% Leave if the Brexit Party gain it from Labour that would be bad news for Corbyn but even more so for Labour EUref2 backers
Evening all. 125 kilometres walked last month delivering leaflets. More today, by this time tomorrow I expect my pains and blisters to hurt more than they already do.
To my fellow candidates of whatever party you represent, the very best of luck tomorrow
They think, as per Diane Abbot, that "Mao did more good than harm." Even if that meant killing tens of millions, it was worth it to advance the cause.
How could anyone look at Mao objectively and think he did more good than harm? He was totally destructive and left China in an even worse mess than he found it. Stalin at least made some progress on industry.
Mao's fellow Communist Khrushchev was quite correct to call him 'an Asian Hitler.'
> @kle4 said: > On whether Williamson should face trial I should think there's a difference between there being sufficient reason to reasonably conclude he was responsible and being able to prove it definitively. Which of course he would use to protest innocence even if he was guilty, but it will be interesting if it is revealed he has been hard done by.
Jailing the Telegraph hacks for not revealing their sources would add to the gaiety of the nation but might not lead to more sympathetic coverage of the government from the wider media.
> @RochdalePioneers said: > Evening all. 125 kilometres walked last month delivering leaflets. More today, by this time tomorrow I expect my pains and blisters to hurt more than they already do. > > To my fellow candidates of whatever party you represent, the very best of luck tomorrow
> @IanB2 said: > > @FF43 said: > > If I understand this thread correctly, Grayling signed up the ferry companies to start from March 29 in the absence of a deal agreed with the EU rather than from when No Deal actually kicks in, if it does. So we need to pay for 6 months of ferries during which we will definitely not be in a No Deal situation. We may have No Deal after six months, in which case another contract will need to be arranged. > > > > It takes a special level of incompetence to pay compensation to an injured party for unfairly awarding a contract for a service that never gets delivered, then be sued for compensation by another party because of that compensation to the first party AND STILL pay for the service that never got delivered. > > > > https://twitter.com/beckie__smith/status/1123560317689180160 > > The extra ferries have been sailing back and forth, so in that sense it was delivered.
Why would an operator agree to start a service whenever "No Deal" happens?
They wouldn't. They needed a determined start date and period of operation.
On Brexit, I think there may be a narrow possibility of it getting passed with a Customs Union. Say 250 MPs in favour and a large chunk of Labour and Conservative MPs abstaining. Abstentions are the key to getting it through
Many of Europe's major research universities are ignoring rules that require them to make public the results of clinical trials. A report published on 30 April found that the results of only 162 of 940 clinical trials (17%) that were due to be published by 1 April had been posted on the European Union's trials register. The 30 universities surveyed are those that sponsor the most clinical trials in the EU. Fourteen of these institutions had failed to publish a single results summary. If three high-performing UK universities are excluded from the figures, the results of just 7% of the trials were made public on time.
@TheWhiteRabbit said: Why would an operator agree to start a service whenever "No Deal" happens?
They wouldn't. They needed a determined start date and period of operation. _______________________
As described by the Government the ferry arrangement wouldn't have kicked in if we had left the EU on March 29th with a deal. So there was a major muck up in it automatically triggering when we stayed in the EU without a deal.
> @FF43 said: > On Brexit, I think there may be a narrow possibility of it getting passed with a Customs Union. Say 250 MPs in favour and a large chunk of Labour and Conservative MPs abstaining. Abstentions are the key to getting it through
As many times as I see the idea of abstentions, in any number, proposed, I just cannot believe it - any MP would abstain on the most critical issue of the day?
> @FF43 said: > @TheWhiteRabbit said: > Why would an operator agree to start a service whenever "No Deal" happens? > > They wouldn't. They needed a determined start date and period of operation. > _______________________ > > As described by the Government the ferry arrangement wouldn't have kicked in if we had left the EU on March 29th with a deal. So there was a major muck up in it automatically triggering when we stayed in the EU without a deal.
If you are right, then you are right. If you see what I mean.
> @Thayer5 said: > > @GIN1138 said: > > Will Fiona Onasnya do another video? > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXaaR9YlqnE > > Why on earth did she address her constituents, the good people of Peterborough.... from a tower in midtown Manhattan?
> @Thayer5 said: > > @GIN1138 said: > > Will Fiona Onasnya do another video? > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXaaR9YlqnE > > Why on earth did she address her constituents, the good people of Peterborough.... from a tower in midtown Manhattan?
I don't think she has a future career as a youtuber...
> @Thayer5 said: > > @GIN1138 said: > > Will Fiona Onasnya do another video? > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXaaR9YlqnE > > Why on earth did she address her constituents, the good people of Peterborough.... from a tower in midtown Manhattan?
Maybe it was just a backdrop on screens behind her? I doubt she would be allowed outside the UK due to her being on conditional licence!
La Rotonde is a particular target for Parisian protestors, and the Yellow Vests, because Macron held an infamously elitist, indulgent, vintage-Ruinart-swilling victory party there, the night he won the Presidency.
> @The_Taxman said: > > @Thayer5 said: > > > @GIN1138 said: > > > Will Fiona Onasnya do another video? > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXaaR9YlqnE > > > > Why on earth did she address her constituents, the good people of Peterborough.... from a tower in midtown Manhattan? > > Maybe it was just a backdrop on screens behind her? I doubt she would be allowed outside the UK due to her being on conditional licence!
That's my guess. Or she was actually in NYC? Either way she's a crap politician to allow that backdrop (as well as a convicted villain).
They wouldn't. They needed a determined start date and period of operation. _______________________
As described by the Government the ferry arrangement wouldn't have kicked in if we had left the EU on March 29th with a deal. So there was a major muck up in it automatically triggering when we stayed in the EU without a deal.
If you are right, then you are right. If you see what I mean.
_____________________
Digging further it looks like ferry companies were paid setup costs, so it depends on what the contract actually says about operations
> @kinabalu said: > What if it was actually Jeremy Hunt and he has framed Williamson in order to cover his tracks? Not completely out of the question surely.
I wondered that as well! The irony is trust has been completely destroyed between public and politicians. I always thought MPs expenses was the nadir in public relations for politicians. I don't help any political party these days but I should imagine it is a hostile environment for anybody as you will meet people with fiercely opposing views.
> @RochdalePioneers said: > Evening all. 125 kilometres walked last month delivering leaflets. More today, by this time tomorrow I expect my pains and blisters to hurt more than they already do. > > To my fellow candidates of whatever party you represent, the very best of luck tomorrow
Thanks and to you, I will be telling from 7am tomorrow until 11am then knocking up and entering returns through to 9pm, then a quick pizza and onto the count until 2am.
> @Harris_Tweed said: > If things get sticky for May in the “prove it” department, I suspect she’ll let it be known that being a dick and not co-operating with Sedwill were grounds enough for his sacking. Co-operating and demonstrating his innocence would have cleared him. > > This is not like an office boss getting rid of a junior without due process - cabinet ministers serve at her pleasure rather than under the terms of the Employment Act. And politically, it’s probably fair to assume that most backbenchers and certainly members will take a dim view of his being a dick and not co-operating - and undoubtedly of leaking from the NSC.
THIS IS MY RESPONSE (BLOODY AWFUL BLOCKQUOTES!)
I'm not keen on this proving your innocence lark. How can someone prove that they did not do something? It is impossible to prove a negative. Also, the idea that the fact Williamson could not provide some better explanation for how the leak occurred amounts to evidence is for the birds. I'm guessing that Sedwill has little in the way of actual evidence but a lot of suspicions which seem to point in one direction. But, frankly, anyone could have guessed that when the story came out simply from the nature of the decision. None of this is evidence - let alone "compelling" evidence.
I'd also like to know what this "non co-operation" actually amounts to. It could be anything from destroying evidence to being a bit taciturn in an interview. Williamson could not have refused to turn over a government phone. It does not belong to him and I am quite sure that Sedwill would have had the means to find out what calls were made without needing to ask Williamson. If it was a personal phone, there might be any number of reasons why he might not want to hand it over. Would you trust a government functionary not to reveal some private but embarrassing information (** cough ** Damian Green .... porn ** cough)?
Of course, I could be wrong and there could be more. There will be poisonous personal rivalries involved in this as much as any concern about what was discussed. We shall see.
> @Thayer5 said: > > @GIN1138 said: > > Will Fiona Onasnya do another video? > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXaaR9YlqnE > > Why on earth did she address her constituents, the good people of Peterborough.... from a tower in midtown Manhattan?
Perhaps she thinks midtown Manhattan will be a safer berth than Peterborough now?
Anyhow, for those bored with Williamson, May and co, my new work blog post - on when it is / is not right to discipline those who blow the whistle (so not entirely unconnected to today's events) is available here - https://barry-walsh.co.uk/news/.
Can’t see them going with George, he’s got way too much baggage and is likely to repel potential Tory switchers. Let him stand as an Indy to take some Lab votes away, then run a well-known and clean local candidate for the Brexit Party.
Maybe Galloway was purring like a kitten and drinking milk supplied by Farage? It is a funny double act. One self confessed pisshead with a tee total cigar smoking radical. They share next to nothing in common other than attention seeking.
> @Sandpit said: > Interesting gossip > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1123685667236732928 > > > > Can’t see them going with George, he’s got way too much baggage and is likely to repel potential Tory switchers. Let him stand as an Indy to take some Lab votes away, then run a well-known and clean local candidate for the Brexit Party.
> @brokenwheel said: > Given the Brexit Party doesn't have any other policies, I would have thought the demographic would be very, very similar. > > I assume that’s why TBP is polling 52% in the EP election polls?
TBP is leading the EP polls, and that is based around an electorate that was 52:48 in favour of Brexit.
Peterborough is significantly more Brexit than the country as a whole.
And:
(a) The former Labour MP was found guilty of a serious criminal offence (b) The Conservative Party is in (at best) disarray, and thousands of activists are publicly saying they are backing the Brexit Party (c) The LibDems and ChUK are likely to split any hardcore Remain vote between them.
But let's go back to your original point.
TBP is getting about 60% of the Leave vote in the EP polls right now.
If they get 60% of the Leave vote in Peterborough they will end up in the low 40s and take it at a canter. I doubt they'll do that well.
But they should be able get into at least the mid 30s. Now, that might not be enough to take it, particularly if Labour chooses their candidate wisely. But it should be enough for a really good performance.
> @The_Taxman said: > > @Foxy said: > > Interesting gossip > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1123685667236732928 > > Maybe Galloway was purring like a kitten and drinking milk supplied by Farage? It is a funny double act. One self confessed pisshead with a tee total cigar smoking radical. They share next to nothing in common other than attention seeking.
They got together for the Leave campaign. Don't you remember? Farage introduced Galloway with much fanfare at an early meeting/rally, with some in the audience walking out in disgust.
It was a bit of a "yuck" moment on here too, for some.
It would not surprise me to see them pallying up again, if the rumours turn out to be true.
> @Cyclefree said: > Anyhow, for those bored with Williamson, May and co, my new work blog post - on when it is / is not right to discipline those who blow the whistle (so not entirely unconnected to today's events) is available here - https://barry-walsh.co.uk/news/. >
Fascinating article. I can see why the Doctor was reinstated although for those directly involved - by which I mean the relatives of the child who died - I can also see how this would seem to be the wrong decision.
But looking from the outside the important point about the Scott case seems to be that there was indeed a confidential way in which she could report the fraud to the SRA at the time she became involved but she chose not to take that route. That does seem to be quite damning.
"Milk plus Brexitcet or SynthUkip or Conservacrom, which is what we were drinking. This would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old ultra-Brexit!"
> @MikeSmithson said: > > @Sandpit said: > > Interesting gossip > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1123685667236732928 > > > > > > > > Can’t see them going with George, he’s got way too much baggage and is likely to repel potential Tory switchers. Let him stand as an Indy to take some Lab votes away, then run a well-known and clean local candidate for the Brexit Party. > > I thought Nigel was going to be the BP candidate
He's said on Twitter and on the wireless that he won't.
What are campaigners supposed to do other than keep the attention on the issue and pressure on politicians? This is the most important issue in the world right now, why such a bitter response to somebody doing their best?
> @kinabalu said: > What if it was actually Jeremy Hunt and he has framed Williamson in order to cover his tracks? Not completely out of the question surely.
A Tory Cabinet Minister displaying artifice, cunning, ruthlessness and, crucially, competence? Occam's Razor I reckon.
> @Cyclefree said: > > @Harris_Tweed said: > > If things get sticky for May in the “prove it” department, I suspect she’ll let it be known that being a dick and not co-operating with Sedwill were grounds enough for his sacking. Co-operating and demonstrating his innocence would have cleared him. > > > > This is not like an office boss getting rid of a junior without due process - cabinet ministers serve at her pleasure rather than under the terms of the Employment Act. And politically, it’s probably fair to assume that most backbenchers and certainly members will take a dim view of his being a dick and not co-operating - and undoubtedly of leaking from the NSC. > > THIS IS MY RESPONSE (BLOODY AWFUL BLOCKQUOTES!) > > I'm not keen on this proving your innocence lark. How can someone prove that they did not do something? It is impossible to prove a negative. Also, the idea that the fact Williamson could not provide some better explanation for how the leak occurred amounts to evidence is for the birds. I'm guessing that Sedwill has little in the way of actual evidence but a lot of suspicions which seem to point in one direction. But, frankly, anyone could have guessed that when the story came out simply from the nature of the decision. None of this is evidence - let alone "compelling" evidence. > > I'd also like to know what this "non co-operation" actually amounts to. It could be anything from destroying evidence to being a bit taciturn in an interview. Williamson could not have refused to turn over a government phone. It does not belong to him and I am quite sure that Sedwill would have had the means to find out what calls were made without needing to ask Williamson. If it was a personal phone, there might be any number of reasons why he might not want to hand it over. Would you trust a government functionary not to reveal some private but embarrassing information (** cough ** Damian Green .... porn ** cough)? > > Of course, I could be wrong and there could be more. There will be poisonous personal rivalries involved in this as much as any concern about what was discussed. We shall see. >
=====AND THIS IS MY REPLY!=====
Agree with all that. It’s just that in this employment relationship, uniquely, “I don’t like you any more because X or Y” is a legally justifiable reason to fire someone. The letter stops just short of saying X is leaking, but is clearer that Y is at best messing around with the Cabinet Secretary like that time you lost a box of paperclips at the fireplace showroom.
Although Damian Green’s (forced) resignation was far chummier, there were similar traces of “actually, the cabinet secretary hasn’t found much wrong, but it’s all a bit messy and I have better stuff to be getting on with.”
Always political risks attached.. but I suspect unfettered hiring/firing power is generally considered a feature not a bug of cabinet govt.
> Can’t see them going with George, he’s got way too much baggage and is likely to repel potential Tory switchers. Let him stand as an Indy to take some Lab votes away, then run a well-known and clean local candidate for the Brexit Party.
I thought Nigel was going to be the BP candidate
He has been quoted tonight as saying he won’t stand in Peterborough, but the Brexit Party will contest the seat.
A couple of Israeli rabbis have made remarks - to young Jewish soldiers - that are so loathsome and anti-Arab, even Trump's man has reacted with disgust.
> If things get sticky for May in the “prove it” department, I suspect she’ll let it be known that being a dick and not co-operating with Sedwill were grounds enough for his sacking. Co-operating and demonstrating his innocence would have cleared him.
>
> This is not like an office boss getting rid of a junior without due process - cabinet ministers serve at her pleasure rather than under the terms of the Employment Act. And politically, it’s probably fair to assume that most backbenchers and certainly members will take a dim view of his being a dick and not co-operating - and undoubtedly of leaking from the NSC.
THIS IS MY RESPONSE (BLOODY AWFUL BLOCKQUOTES!)
I'm not keen on this proving your innocence lark. How can someone prove that they did not do something? It is impossible to prove a negative. Also, the idea that the fact Williamson could not provide some better explanation for how the leak occurred amounts to evidence is for the birds. I'm guessing that Sedwill has little in the way of actual evidence but a lot of suspicions which seem to point in one direction. But, frankly, anyone could have guessed that when the story came out simply from the nature of the decision. None of this is evidence - let alone "compelling" evidence.
I'd also like to know what this "non co-operation" actually amounts to. It could be anything from destroying evidence to being a bit taciturn in an interview. Williamson could not have refused to turn over a government phone. It does not belong to him and I am quite sure that Sedwill would have had the means to find out what calls were made without needing to ask Williamson. If it was a personal phone, there might be any number of reasons why he might not want to hand it over. Would you trust a government functionary not to reveal some private but embarrassing information (** cough ** Damian Green .... porn ** cough)?
Of course, I could be wrong and there could be more. There will be poisonous personal rivalries involved in this as much as any concern about what was discussed. We shall see.
I didn't get the impression that May's letter was trying to set out the evidence against him in its entirety.
The Telegraph will not of course reveal its source for the leak but supposing for a moment it wasn't Williamson - what's to stop them loudly proclaiming it wasn't him?
> @Cyclefree said: > > @The_Taxman said: > > > @Foxy said: > > > Interesting gossip > > > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1123685667236732928 > > > > Maybe Galloway was purring like a kitten and drinking milk supplied by Farage? It is a funny double act. One self confessed pisshead with a tee total cigar smoking radical. They share next to nothing in common other than attention seeking. > > They got together for the Leave campaign. Don't you remember? Farage introduced Galloway with much fanfare at an early meeting/rally, with some in the audience walking out in disgust. > > It was a bit of a "yuck" moment on here too, for some. > > It would not surprise me to see them pallying up again, if the rumours turn out to be true.
I had forgotten that Galloway had backed Leave until you reminded me!
> Can’t see them going with George, he’s got way too much baggage and is likely to repel potential Tory switchers. Let him stand as an Indy to take some Lab votes away, then run a well-known and clean local candidate for the Brexit Party.
I thought Nigel was going to be the BP candidate
He has been quoted tonight as saying he won’t stand in Peterborough, but the Brexit Party will contest the seat.
Maybe it was always thus, but politics increasingly seems to be about ego and charlatans who want to be in the limelight all the time.
> A lot of work to do at Anfield next week. Probably too much to be honest.
The thing is that Liverpool played really well and lost 3-0. They didn’t take their chances and paid the price. But this is over.
And we missed a sitter a few minutes from the end, 3-1 would have been an away goal and a fair shout next week - but I can’t see us putting three past this lot without reply at Anfield.
Better hope Leicester can take points off Man City now.
Ooh we have called something an emergency - the planet is saved!
What exactly are they going to do practically:
Ensure MPs and all people with double barrelled names fully let out all the rooms in their multiple homes to poor families to minimise wasteful energy use. Starting with Chequers. Make the Cabinet and Ministers cycle everywhere and thus scrap their ministerial cars Stop flying and Going on foreign trips and holidays - skiing trips are fine as long as you post photos on Instagram afterwards Turn off the heating in parliament in winter?
Or is real action just for the plebs to experience?
Ooh we have called something an emergency - the planet is saved!
What exactly are they going to do practically:
Ensure MPs and all people with double barrelled names fully let out all the rooms in their multiple homes to poor families to minimise wasteful energy use Make the Cabinet and Ministers cycle everywhere and thus scrap their ministerial cars Stop flying and Going on foreign trips and holidays - skiing trips are fine as long as you post photos on Instagram afterwards Turn off the heating in parliament in winter?
Or is real action just for the plebs to experience?
As you say - it’s just tokenism!
Uh, what? You know government policy can affect how energy is generated and used, right? The aim of this isn't to get 650 people to turn their thermostats down.
So, if an MP with parties representing near100% of voters opposing her, gets around 25% recall signatures, and an MP with parties representing about 40% of voters opposing gets just under 10% recall signatures, then how many recall signatures gets an MP with parties representing 50% of voters opposing, but with perhaps a modicum of understanding for their circumstances?
Ooh we have called something an emergency - the planet is saved!
What exactly are they going to do practically:
Ensure MPs and all people with double barrelled names fully let out all the rooms in their multiple homes to poor families to minimise wasteful energy use. Starting with Chequers. Make the Cabinet and Ministers cycle everywhere and thus scrap their ministerial cars Stop flying and Going on foreign trips and holidays - skiing trips are fine as long as you post photos on Instagram afterwards Turn off the heating in parliament in winter?
Or is real action just for the plebs to experience?
As you say - it’s just tokenism!
I’ll believe the climate change activists are actually serious, when they hold a worldwide conference using telepresence technology.
> @Benpointer said: > The Telegraph will not of course reveal its source for the leak but supposing for a moment it wasn't Williamson - what's to stop them loudly proclaiming it wasn't him?
I suspect it’s the risk that they subsequently need to loudly proclaim other suggested culprits aren’t it, until one lucky winner remains.
> @Stereotomy said: > > @Foxy said: > > > I see Greta is magnanimous in victory. > > > > > > https://twitter.com/GretaThunberg/status/1123675465774981120 > > > > > > Gesture politics - nothing more, nothing less > > What are campaigners supposed to do other than keep the attention on the issue and pressure on politicians? This is the most important issue in the world right now, why such a bitter response to somebody doing their best?
It was a motion that has no effect. It wasn't actually taken to a vote - just that no-one shouted No so there was no division.
It was pure gesture politics on the part of the Labour Party that changes NOTHING.
> Evening all. 125 kilometres walked last month delivering leaflets. More today, by this time tomorrow I expect my pains and blisters to hurt more than they already do.
>
> To my fellow candidates of whatever party you represent, the very best of luck tomorrow
> @Sandpit said: > > @Foxy said: > > > I see Greta is magnanimous in victory. > > > > > > https://twitter.com/GretaThunberg/status/1123675465774981120 > > > > > > Gesture politics - nothing more, nothing less > > Ooh we have called something an emergency - the planet is saved! > > What exactly are they going to do practically: > > Ensure MPs and all people with double barrelled names fully let out all the rooms in their multiple homes to poor families to minimise wasteful energy use. Starting with Chequers. > Make the Cabinet and Ministers cycle everywhere and thus scrap their ministerial cars > Stop flying and Going on foreign trips and holidays - skiing trips are fine as long as you post photos on Instagram afterwards > Turn off the heating in parliament in winter? > > Or is real action just for the plebs to experience? > > As you say - it’s just tokenism! > > I’ll believe the climate change activists are actually serious, when they hold a worldwide conference using telepresence technology.
And when they put forward real proposals rather than something that they know cannot be delivered.
We cannot be carbon emission free within the next 6 years as they were demanding. It is not practically possible even with 100% commitment from every citizen
You have to present practical, costed proposals with a clear timeline and delivery mechanism - otherwise you are just throwing around a wishlist so that you can continue to complain when you don't get what you wished for.
This does not deny the need for action. Or the seriousness of the situation.
But a serious problem demands serious thinking and serious solutions.
Comments
> > @FrancisUrquhart said:
> > I presume john didnt see the banners as per usual...
> >
> > https://twitter.com/JBickertonUK/status/1123580005714415616?s=19
>
> We can't see the full first word on the left hand banner. I assume it says 'Totalitarian'.
Nonsense, Comrades! Humanitarian, surely!
> So who is the greater threat to national security - the person responsible for the leak or those who want to place an IT contract with the Chinese secret service?
Clearly I would say the latter. But that does not excuse the former.
Im not a celebrity, get me out of here....
> To have one disgraced former defence secretary is unfortunate.
>
> To have two is downright careless.
Strong and stable, though, remember.
> I presume john didnt see the banners as per usual...
>
> https://twitter.com/JBickertonUK/status/1123580005714415616?s=19
Leaving McDonnell out of it, for the moment, I really struggle with people who seem to be fans of Stalin and Mao. How do they justify that? Why do people supporting them, however many it is, not provoke more of a reaction?
> On whether Williamson should face trial I should think there's a difference between there being sufficient reason to reasonably conclude he was responsible and being able to prove it definitively. Which of course he would use to protest innocence even if he was guilty, but it will be interesting if it is revealed he has been hard done by.
This is true. The general standard in human affairs is +50% probability - 'the balance of probability' which means of course that the judgement is quite possibly wrong. The criminal standard is to be 'satisfied so that you are sure' or 'beyond reasonable doubt'. So it is very very common for an action to be taken on a basis, for example in employment issues, which would not lead to successful criminal prosecution. This is the source of the notable difficulty in single allegation sexual offences cases, with their very high acquittal rate. Sadly no amount of understandable feminist protest can undo this fundamental problem of the nature of justice.
I'll be surprised if there are any successful criminal cases here.
> > @FrancisUrquhart said:
> > I presume john didnt see the banners as per usual...
> >
> > https://twitter.com/JBickertonUK/status/1123580005714415616?s=19
>
> Leaving McDonnell out of it, for the moment, I really struggle with people who seem to be fans of Stalin and Mao. How do they justify that? Why do people supporting them, however many it is, not provoke more of a reaction?
If that was posters of Hitler, just imagine the reaction...
A good example might be Trump, I'd rather he was taken out by democratic means. That would go for any opponent or ally.
> > @Quincel said:
> > The more I look at Peterborough the more I think it's Labour's to lose, more like 70-80% chance of winning than 50:50. Brexit Party will do well, but they will take far more votes from the Tories than Labour (judging by EU polling). They could come through and win it, but Labour has a strong local operation (recently drilled on the locals) and Farage doesn't. Plus there's got to be a decent chance Brexit Party chooses a candidate who gets in their own way.
>
> Brexit Party needs to pitch this as a "teach the whole establishment a lesson they'll never forget" by election - That means getting a candidate that's outside of politics (NOT the Gorgeous One then
Peterborough is over 60% Leave if the Brexit Party gain it from Labour that would be bad news for Corbyn but even more so for Labour EUref2 backers
> > @brokenwheel said:
>
> > Just run Farage. He's a true icon and folk hero to a demography which doesn't get much better in one seat than this. If they wait for a by-election in Clacton he'll be waiting forever. He needn't even fear losing, he's lost loads of times before and he's still where he is now.
>
> >
>
> > Indeed. Peterborough is the right demographic for Farage and this is the right time.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > It actually isn’t, for a start the part of Peterborough in the constituency is about a quarter foreign born. There are a lot of seats which have better demographics.
>
> >
>
> > But yeah of course people are going to make out this is a must-win much like Stoke Central for Nuttall when these actually are bad places to run.
>
>
>
> How many seats are more than 60% leave vote in 2016? If Farage can only win in perfect conditions then that's not good enough. This is plenty fertile territory compared to your average seat.
>
> Well over a hundred, including Stoke Central...
>
> It’s not a simple case of mobilising the Leave vote, the people who will actually vote TBP or UKIP is not exactly the same demographic.
Almost exactly 100, as it happens. Using the Chris Hanretty estimates, Peterborough is the 530th most Leave-voting seat in Great Britain (he didn't cover NI). That isn't perfect, but it's a well above average seat for TBP and while it's a tad younger than the UK average it's a good slug less qualified (degree-wise). Almost double the UK average for long-term unemployed. It's a very solid example of an area which has done poorly for a while and saw Leave as a way to change that/signal their feelings at being left behind.
He can't just wait for a by-election in the perfect seats. Peterborough is well above average in many key indicators, particularly Leave vote.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b71SDKPFbk-ktmUTXmDpUP5PT299qq24orEA0_TOpmw/edit#gid=579044181
Was it really a wig?
> I'm not sure what you want. They should be held to the same standard as most of the rest of the population. I don't know of any job at my level where I could get an 11 month and 29 day prison sentence and walk straight back into my job. I'd be lucky to keep mine if I got a week in the nick.
> Politicians are so far away from us that they have lost touch with reality.
It's a bit sweeping - not all employers feel that way. A senior colleague in IT who I knew in Novartis (the Swiss multinational) was sentenced to a year's open prison, which under local law requires overnight stay but allow the prisoner to work in the daytime (to avoid the common problem of people losing their jobs and plunging into deeper crime). Novartis decided that as the offence was committed in his private time and didn't threaten company security, it would not be fair to increase his punishment by sacking him.
> > @brokenwheel said:
>
> > Just run Farage. He's a true icon and folk hero to a demography which doesn't get much better in one seat than this. If they wait for a by-election in Clacton he'll be waiting forever. He needn't even fear losing, he's lost loads of times before and he's still where he is now.
>
> >
>
> > Indeed. Peterborough is the right demographic for Farage and this is the right time.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > It actually isn’t, for a start the part of Peterborough in the constituency is about a quarter foreign born. There are a lot of seats which have better demographics.
>
> >
>
> > But yeah of course people are going to make out this is a must-win much like Stoke Central for Nuttall when these actually are bad places to run.
>
>
>
> How many seats are more than 60% leave vote in 2016? If Farage can only win in perfect conditions then that's not good enough. This is plenty fertile territory compared to your average seat.
>
> Well over a hundred, including Stoke Central...
>
> It’s not a simple case of mobilising the Leave vote, the people who will actually vote TBP or UKIP is not exactly the same demographic.
Is it not?
Given the Brexit Party doesn't have any other policies, I would have thought the demographic would be very, very similar.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/05/in-pictures-may-day-protests-in-paris-turn-violent/
Somewhat shocked to see that my favourite restaurant in the 16th is boarded up.
This is not like an office boss getting rid of a junior without due process - cabinet ministers serve at her pleasure rather than under the terms of the Employment Act. And politically, it’s probably fair to assume that most backbenchers and certainly members will take a dim view of his being a dick and not co-operating - and undoubtedly of leaking from the NSC.
> > @kle4 said:
> > > @FrancisUrquhart said:
> > > I presume john didnt see the banners as per usual...
> > >
> > > https://twitter.com/JBickertonUK/status/1123580005714415616?s=19
> >
> > Leaving McDonnell out of it, for the moment, I really struggle with people who seem to be fans of Stalin and Mao. How do they justify that? Why do people supporting them, however many it is, not provoke more of a reaction?
>
> If that was posters of Hitler, just imagine the reaction...
Perhaps the banners were present but not involved?
> Meanwhile - May Day protests in Paris turn violent.
> https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/05/in-pictures-may-day-protests-in-paris-turn-violent/
> Somewhat shocked to see that my favourite restaurant in the 16th is boarded up.
Thankful that crap stopped here after a few years.
> If I understand this thread correctly, Grayling signed up the ferry companies to start from March 29 in the absence of a deal agreed with the EU rather than from when No Deal actually kicks in, if it does. So we need to pay for 6 months of ferries during which we will definitely not be in a No Deal situation. We may have No Deal after six months, in which case another contract will need to be arranged.
>
> It takes a special level of incompetence to pay compensation to an injured party for unfairly awarding a contract for a service that never gets delivered, then be sued for compensation by another party because of that compensation to the first party AND STILL pay for the service that never got delivered.
>
> https://twitter.com/beckie__smith/status/1123560317689180160
The extra ferries have been sailing back and forth, so in that sense it was delivered.
Lab 36
Con 27
Brexit 13
LDEM 8
UKIP 5
CUK 4
Green 3
It's been posted on vote 2012.
And as I said, Leave % is not going to be a good predictor of TBP success.
> Leaving McDonnell out of it, for the moment, I really struggle with >people who seem to be fans of Stalin and Mao. How do they justify >that? Why do people supporting them, however many it is, not >provoke more of a reaction?
They think, as per Diane Abbot, that "Mao did more good than harm." Even if that meant killing tens of millions, it was worth it to advance the cause.
> > @GIN1138 said:
> > > @Quincel said:
> > > The more I look at Peterborough the more I think it's Labour's to lose, more like 70-80% chance of winning than 50:50. Brexit Party will do well, but they will take far more votes from the Tories than Labour (judging by EU polling). They could come through and win it, but Labour has a strong local operation (recently drilled on the locals) and Farage doesn't. Plus there's got to be a decent chance Brexit Party chooses a candidate who gets in their own way.
> >
> > Brexit Party needs to pitch this as a "teach the whole establishment a lesson they'll never forget" by election - That means getting a candidate that's outside of politics (NOT the Gorgeous One then
>
> Peterborough is over 60% Leave if the Brexit Party gain it from Labour that would be bad news for Corbyn but even more so for Labour EUref2 backers
Is anyone yet quoting odds for this?
To my fellow candidates of whatever party you represent, the very best of luck tomorrow
Mao's fellow Communist Khrushchev was quite correct to call him 'an Asian Hitler.'
> On whether Williamson should face trial I should think there's a difference between there being sufficient reason to reasonably conclude he was responsible and being able to prove it definitively. Which of course he would use to protest innocence even if he was guilty, but it will be interesting if it is revealed he has been hard done by.
Jailing the Telegraph hacks for not revealing their sources would add to the gaiety of the nation but might not lead to more sympathetic coverage of the government from the wider media.
> Evening all. 125 kilometres walked last month delivering leaflets. More today, by this time tomorrow I expect my pains and blisters to hurt more than they already do.
>
> To my fellow candidates of whatever party you represent, the very best of luck tomorrow
Best of luck to you.
> > @FF43 said:
> > If I understand this thread correctly, Grayling signed up the ferry companies to start from March 29 in the absence of a deal agreed with the EU rather than from when No Deal actually kicks in, if it does. So we need to pay for 6 months of ferries during which we will definitely not be in a No Deal situation. We may have No Deal after six months, in which case another contract will need to be arranged.
> >
> > It takes a special level of incompetence to pay compensation to an injured party for unfairly awarding a contract for a service that never gets delivered, then be sued for compensation by another party because of that compensation to the first party AND STILL pay for the service that never got delivered.
> >
> > https://twitter.com/beckie__smith/status/1123560317689180160
>
> The extra ferries have been sailing back and forth, so in that sense it was delivered.
Why would an operator agree to start a service whenever "No Deal" happens?
They wouldn't. They needed a determined start date and period of operation.
Why would an operator agree to start a service whenever "No Deal" happens?
They wouldn't. They needed a determined start date and period of operation.
_______________________
As described by the Government the ferry arrangement wouldn't have kicked in if we had left the EU on March 29th with a deal. So there was a major muck up in it automatically triggering when we stayed in the EU without a deal.
> On Brexit, I think there may be a narrow possibility of it getting passed with a Customs Union. Say 250 MPs in favour and a large chunk of Labour and Conservative MPs abstaining. Abstentions are the key to getting it through
As many times as I see the idea of abstentions, in any number, proposed, I just cannot believe it - any MP would abstain on the most critical issue of the day?
https://twitter.com/GretaThunberg/status/1123675465774981120?s=19
> @TheWhiteRabbit said:
> Why would an operator agree to start a service whenever "No Deal" happens?
>
> They wouldn't. They needed a determined start date and period of operation.
> _______________________
>
> As described by the Government the ferry arrangement wouldn't have kicked in if we had left the EU on March 29th with a deal. So there was a major muck up in it automatically triggering when we stayed in the EU without a deal.
If you are right, then you are right. If you see what I mean.
> I see Greta is magnanimous in victory.
>
> https://twitter.com/GretaThunberg/status/1123675465774981120?s=19
Gesture politics - nothing more, nothing less
> Will Fiona Onasnya do another video?
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXaaR9YlqnE
Why on earth did she address her constituents, the good people of Peterborough.... from a tower in midtown Manhattan?
> > @GIN1138 said:
> > Will Fiona Onasnya do another video?
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXaaR9YlqnE
>
> Why on earth did she address her constituents, the good people of Peterborough.... from a tower in midtown Manhattan?
Finally, 2019 sees its second by-election
> > @GIN1138 said:
> > Will Fiona Onasnya do another video?
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXaaR9YlqnE
>
> Why on earth did she address her constituents, the good people of Peterborough.... from a tower in midtown Manhattan?
I don't think she has a future career as a youtuber...
> > @GIN1138 said:
> > Will Fiona Onasnya do another video?
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXaaR9YlqnE
>
> Why on earth did she address her constituents, the good people of Peterborough.... from a tower in midtown Manhattan?
Maybe it was just a backdrop on screens behind her? I doubt she would be allowed outside the UK due to her being on conditional licence!
> Meanwhile - May Day protests in Paris turn violent.
> https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/05/in-pictures-may-day-protests-in-paris-turn-violent/
> Somewhat shocked to see that my favourite restaurant in the 16th is boarded up.
La Rotonde? You live richly.
La Rotonde is a particular target for Parisian protestors, and the Yellow Vests, because Macron held an infamously elitist, indulgent, vintage-Ruinart-swilling victory party there, the night he won the Presidency.
https://www.challenges.fr/macron-savoure-sa-soiree-a-la-rotonde_14
> > @Thayer5 said:
> > > @GIN1138 said:
> > > Will Fiona Onasnya do another video?
> > >
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXaaR9YlqnE
> >
> > Why on earth did she address her constituents, the good people of Peterborough.... from a tower in midtown Manhattan?
>
> Maybe it was just a backdrop on screens behind her? I doubt she would be allowed outside the UK due to her being on conditional licence!
That's my guess. Or she was actually in NYC? Either way she's a crap politician to allow that backdrop (as well as a convicted villain).
@FF43 said:
@TheWhiteRabbit said:
Why would an operator agree to start a service whenever "No Deal" happens?
They wouldn't. They needed a determined start date and period of operation.
_______________________
As described by the Government the ferry arrangement wouldn't have kicked in if we had left the EU on March 29th with a deal. So there was a major muck up in it automatically triggering when we stayed in the EU without a deal.
If you are right, then you are right. If you see what I mean.
_____________________
Digging further it looks like ferry companies were paid setup costs, so it depends on what the contract actually says about operations
> What if it was actually Jeremy Hunt and he has framed Williamson in order to cover his tracks? Not completely out of the question surely.
I wondered that as well! The irony is trust has been completely destroyed between public and politicians. I always thought MPs expenses was the nadir in public relations for politicians. I don't help any political party these days but I should imagine it is a hostile environment for anybody as you will meet people with fiercely opposing views.
> Evening all. 125 kilometres walked last month delivering leaflets. More today, by this time tomorrow I expect my pains and blisters to hurt more than they already do.
>
> To my fellow candidates of whatever party you represent, the very best of luck tomorrow
Thanks and to you, I will be telling from 7am tomorrow until 11am then knocking up and entering returns through to 9pm, then a quick pizza and onto the count until 2am.
Will be a long day for us all!
> If things get sticky for May in the “prove it” department, I suspect she’ll let it be known that being a dick and not co-operating with Sedwill were grounds enough for his sacking. Co-operating and demonstrating his innocence would have cleared him.
>
> This is not like an office boss getting rid of a junior without due process - cabinet ministers serve at her pleasure rather than under the terms of the Employment Act. And politically, it’s probably fair to assume that most backbenchers and certainly members will take a dim view of his being a dick and not co-operating - and undoubtedly of leaking from the NSC.
THIS IS MY RESPONSE (BLOODY AWFUL BLOCKQUOTES!)
I'm not keen on this proving your innocence lark. How can someone prove that they did not do something? It is impossible to prove a negative. Also, the idea that the fact Williamson could not provide some better explanation for how the leak occurred amounts to evidence is for the birds. I'm guessing that Sedwill has little in the way of actual evidence but a lot of suspicions which seem to point in one direction. But, frankly, anyone could have guessed that when the story came out simply from the nature of the decision. None of this is evidence - let alone "compelling" evidence.
I'd also like to know what this "non co-operation" actually amounts to. It could be anything from destroying evidence to being a bit taciturn in an interview. Williamson could not have refused to turn over a government phone. It does not belong to him and I am quite sure that Sedwill would have had the means to find out what calls were made without needing to ask Williamson. If it was a personal phone, there might be any number of reasons why he might not want to hand it over. Would you trust a government functionary not to reveal some private but embarrassing information (** cough ** Damian Green .... porn ** cough)?
Of course, I could be wrong and there could be more. There will be poisonous personal rivalries involved in this as much as any concern about what was discussed. We shall see.
> > @GIN1138 said:
> > Will Fiona Onasnya do another video?
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXaaR9YlqnE
>
> Why on earth did she address her constituents, the good people of Peterborough.... from a tower in midtown Manhattan?
Perhaps she thinks midtown Manhattan will be a safer berth than Peterborough now?
And what a miss from Liverpool.
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1123685667236732928?s=19
> Interesting gossip
>
> https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1123685667236732928
They would be better off putting Galloway up in Bradford if we are still in the EU by the next general election
A lot of work to do at Anfield next week. Probably too much to be honest.
> Interesting gossip
>
> https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1123685667236732928
Maybe Galloway was purring like a kitten and drinking milk supplied by Farage? It is a funny double act. One self confessed pisshead with a tee total cigar smoking radical. They share next to nothing in common other than attention seeking.
> Interesting gossip
>
> https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1123685667236732928
>
>
>
> Can’t see them going with George, he’s got way too much baggage and is likely to repel potential Tory switchers. Let him stand as an Indy to take some Lab votes away, then run a well-known and clean local candidate for the Brexit Party.
I thought Nigel was going to be the BP candidate
> Given the Brexit Party doesn't have any other policies, I would have thought the demographic would be very, very similar.
>
> I assume that’s why TBP is polling 52% in the EP election polls?
TBP is leading the EP polls, and that is based around an electorate that was 52:48 in favour of Brexit.
Peterborough is significantly more Brexit than the country as a whole.
And:
(a) The former Labour MP was found guilty of a serious criminal offence
(b) The Conservative Party is in (at best) disarray, and thousands of activists are publicly saying they are backing the Brexit Party
(c) The LibDems and ChUK are likely to split any hardcore Remain vote between them.
But let's go back to your original point.
TBP is getting about 60% of the Leave vote in the EP polls right now.
If they get 60% of the Leave vote in Peterborough they will end up in the low 40s and take it at a canter. I doubt they'll do that well.
But they should be able get into at least the mid 30s. Now, that might not be enough to take it, particularly if Labour chooses their candidate wisely. But it should be enough for a really good performance.
> Barça 3-0 Liverpool.
>
> A lot of work to do at Anfield next week. Probably too much to be honest.
The thing is that Liverpool played really well and lost 3-0. They didn’t take their chances and paid the price. But this is over.
> > @Foxy said:
> > Interesting gossip
> >
> > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1123685667236732928
>
> Maybe Galloway was purring like a kitten and drinking milk supplied by Farage? It is a funny double act. One self confessed pisshead with a tee total cigar smoking radical. They share next to nothing in common other than attention seeking.
They got together for the Leave campaign. Don't you remember? Farage introduced Galloway with much fanfare at an early meeting/rally, with some in the audience walking out in disgust.
It was a bit of a "yuck" moment on here too, for some.
It would not surprise me to see them pallying up again, if the rumours turn out to be true.
> Anyhow, for those bored with Williamson, May and co, my new work blog post - on when it is / is not right to discipline those who blow the whistle (so not entirely unconnected to today's events) is available here - https://barry-walsh.co.uk/news/.
>
Fascinating article. I can see why the Doctor was reinstated although for those directly involved - by which I mean the relatives of the child who died - I can also see how this would seem to be the wrong decision.
But looking from the outside the important point about the Scott case seems to be that there was indeed a confidential way in which she could report the fraud to the SRA at the time she became involved but she chose not to take that route. That does seem to be quite damning.
> > @geoffw said:
> > Meanwhile - May Day protests in Paris turn violent.
> > https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/05/in-pictures-may-day-protests-in-paris-turn-violent/
> > Somewhat shocked to see that my favourite restaurant in the 16th is boarded up.
>
> La Rotonde? You live richly.
>
> La Rotonde is a particular target for Parisian protestors, and the Yellow Vests, because Macron held an infamously elitist, indulgent, vintage-Ruinart-swilling victory party there, the night he won the Presidency.
>
> https://www.challenges.fr/macron-savoure-sa-soiree-a-la-rotonde_14
Good for him.
Personally, I'm more of a fan of Guy Savoy
> > @Foxy said:
> > Interesting gossip
> >
> > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1123685667236732928
>
> Maybe Galloway was purring like a kitten and drinking milk supplied by Farage?
"Milk plus Brexitcet or SynthUkip or Conservacrom, which is what we were drinking. This would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old ultra-Brexit!"
> Interesting gossip
>
> https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1123685667236732928
That would certainly be in line with Nigel's attempts to make the Brexit Party far more pro-Muslim than its UKIP predecessor.
> > @Sandpit said:
> > Interesting gossip
> >
> > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1123685667236732928
> >
> >
> >
> > Can’t see them going with George, he’s got way too much baggage and is likely to repel potential Tory switchers. Let him stand as an Indy to take some Lab votes away, then run a well-known and clean local candidate for the Brexit Party.
>
> I thought Nigel was going to be the BP candidate
He's said on Twitter and on the wireless that he won't.
> What if it was actually Jeremy Hunt and he has framed Williamson in order to cover his tracks? Not completely out of the question surely.
A Tory Cabinet Minister displaying artifice, cunning, ruthlessness and, crucially, competence?
Occam's Razor I reckon.
> > @Harris_Tweed said:
> > If things get sticky for May in the “prove it” department, I suspect she’ll let it be known that being a dick and not co-operating with Sedwill were grounds enough for his sacking. Co-operating and demonstrating his innocence would have cleared him.
> >
> > This is not like an office boss getting rid of a junior without due process - cabinet ministers serve at her pleasure rather than under the terms of the Employment Act. And politically, it’s probably fair to assume that most backbenchers and certainly members will take a dim view of his being a dick and not co-operating - and undoubtedly of leaking from the NSC.
>
> THIS IS MY RESPONSE (BLOODY AWFUL BLOCKQUOTES!)
>
> I'm not keen on this proving your innocence lark. How can someone prove that they did not do something? It is impossible to prove a negative. Also, the idea that the fact Williamson could not provide some better explanation for how the leak occurred amounts to evidence is for the birds. I'm guessing that Sedwill has little in the way of actual evidence but a lot of suspicions which seem to point in one direction. But, frankly, anyone could have guessed that when the story came out simply from the nature of the decision. None of this is evidence - let alone "compelling" evidence.
>
> I'd also like to know what this "non co-operation" actually amounts to. It could be anything from destroying evidence to being a bit taciturn in an interview. Williamson could not have refused to turn over a government phone. It does not belong to him and I am quite sure that Sedwill would have had the means to find out what calls were made without needing to ask Williamson. If it was a personal phone, there might be any number of reasons why he might not want to hand it over. Would you trust a government functionary not to reveal some private but embarrassing information (** cough ** Damian Green .... porn ** cough)?
>
> Of course, I could be wrong and there could be more. There will be poisonous personal rivalries involved in this as much as any concern about what was discussed. We shall see.
>
=====AND THIS IS MY REPLY!=====
Agree with all that. It’s just that in this employment relationship, uniquely, “I don’t like you any more because X or Y” is a legally justifiable reason to fire someone. The letter stops just short of saying X is leaking, but is clearer that Y is at best messing around with the Cabinet Secretary like that time you lost a box of paperclips at the fireplace showroom.
Although Damian Green’s (forced) resignation was far chummier, there were similar traces of “actually, the cabinet secretary hasn’t found much wrong, but it’s all a bit messy and I have better stuff to be getting on with.”
Always political risks attached.. but I suspect unfettered hiring/firing power is generally considered a feature not a bug of cabinet govt.
A couple of Israeli rabbis have made remarks - to young Jewish soldiers - that are so loathsome and anti-Arab, even Trump's man has reacted with disgust.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/trump-envoy-greenblatt-condemns-racist-remarks-by-israeli-rabbis-at-pre-army-yeshiva-1.7190057?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
> > @The_Taxman said:
> > > @Foxy said:
> > > Interesting gossip
> > >
> > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1123685667236732928
> >
> > Maybe Galloway was purring like a kitten and drinking milk supplied by Farage? It is a funny double act. One self confessed pisshead with a tee total cigar smoking radical. They share next to nothing in common other than attention seeking.
>
> They got together for the Leave campaign. Don't you remember? Farage introduced Galloway with much fanfare at an early meeting/rally, with some in the audience walking out in disgust.
>
> It was a bit of a "yuck" moment on here too, for some.
>
> It would not surprise me to see them pallying up again, if the rumours turn out to be true.
I had forgotten that Galloway had backed Leave until you reminded me!
Better hope Leicester can take points off Man City now.
What exactly are they going to do practically:
Ensure MPs and all people with double barrelled names fully let out all the rooms in their multiple homes to poor families to minimise wasteful energy use. Starting with Chequers.
Make the Cabinet and Ministers cycle everywhere and thus scrap their ministerial cars
Stop flying and Going on foreign trips and holidays - skiing trips are fine as long as you post photos on Instagram afterwards
Turn off the heating in parliament in winter?
Or is real action just for the plebs to experience?
As you say - it’s just tokenism!
On that ludicrous note, goodnight!
> The Telegraph will not of course reveal its source for the leak but supposing for a moment it wasn't Williamson - what's to stop them loudly proclaiming it wasn't him?
I suspect it’s the risk that they subsequently need to loudly proclaim other suggested culprits aren’t it, until one lucky winner remains.
> > @Foxy said:
>
> > I see Greta is magnanimous in victory.
>
> >
>
> > https://twitter.com/GretaThunberg/status/1123675465774981120
>
>
>
>
>
> Gesture politics - nothing more, nothing less
>
> What are campaigners supposed to do other than keep the attention on the issue and pressure on politicians? This is the most important issue in the world right now, why such a bitter response to somebody doing their best?
It was a motion that has no effect.
It wasn't actually taken to a vote - just that no-one shouted No so there was no division.
It was pure gesture politics on the part of the Labour Party that changes NOTHING.
> The Chukkers must fancy their chances in Peterborough.
>
> On that ludicrous note, goodnight!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxA
> The Chukkers must fancy their chances in Peterborough.
>
> On that ludicrous note, goodnight!
Can they get Oona King to stand for them?
> > @Foxy said:
>
> > I see Greta is magnanimous in victory.
>
> >
>
> > https://twitter.com/GretaThunberg/status/1123675465774981120
>
>
>
>
>
> Gesture politics - nothing more, nothing less
>
> Ooh we have called something an emergency - the planet is saved!
>
> What exactly are they going to do practically:
>
> Ensure MPs and all people with double barrelled names fully let out all the rooms in their multiple homes to poor families to minimise wasteful energy use. Starting with Chequers.
> Make the Cabinet and Ministers cycle everywhere and thus scrap their ministerial cars
> Stop flying and Going on foreign trips and holidays - skiing trips are fine as long as you post photos on Instagram afterwards
> Turn off the heating in parliament in winter?
>
> Or is real action just for the plebs to experience?
>
> As you say - it’s just tokenism!
>
> I’ll believe the climate change activists are actually serious, when they hold a worldwide conference using telepresence technology.
And when they put forward real proposals rather than something that they know cannot be delivered.
We cannot be carbon emission free within the next 6 years as they were demanding. It is not practically possible even with 100% commitment from every citizen
You have to present practical, costed proposals with a clear timeline and delivery mechanism - otherwise you are just throwing around a wishlist so that you can continue to complain when you don't get what you wished for.
This does not deny the need for action. Or the seriousness of the situation.
But a serious problem demands serious thinking and serious solutions.