Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Marf on the sacking of Gavin Williamson

245

Comments

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,006
    > @rottenborough said:
    > https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1123640100666134530

    So that's his prisons resignation vow handily chucked in the bin.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    > @Danny565 said:
    > > @Thayer5 said:
    > > If the Brexit party select cleverly for Peterborough, it's theirs for the taking.
    >
    > Think it's possible, but far from certain.
    >
    > In the European Parliament polls, the Brexit Party are currently on course to get around half of the Brexit referendum result nationally. That translates into about 36% in Peterborough - potentially enough for a win as long as the Tories and Labour split their votes fairly equally.

    62.68% for Peterborough constituency according to wiki. So, around 31%. Still enough, but much tighter.
    Depends on who they pick. And Labour. Believe the Tories have a candidate, or am I misremembering?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2019
    > @oxfordsimon said:
    > I think Onasanya should be billed for the cost of running the recall petition
    >
    > She should have quit immediately upon entering prison. We shouldn't pay for her ego/delusion

    Also, her vote was the deciding one in a crucial division in the HoC. I think a lot of people on all sides of politics are not happy about that.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    > @Danny565 said:
    > > @Danny565 said:
    >
    > > > @dyedwoolie said:
    >
    > > > > @FrancisUrquhart said:
    >
    > > > > > @tlg86 said:
    >
    > > > > > Recall petition succeeds.
    >
    > > > >
    >
    > > > > Can the jail bird stand in the recall election?
    >
    > > >
    >
    > > > Yes and take a few off labour
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Lol, why would anyone vote for her?
    >
    >
    >
    > Politically disinterested who vote and just know her name as their mp, its worth a few. Plus she will gave some personal support
    >
    > Large personal votes generally don't exist even for real longstanding MPs, let alone for someone who's only been an MP for two years and who was forced out in disgrace.
    >
    > If she's lucky, she'll match Simon Danczuk's 2%.
    I didn't realise he did as poorly as that. Labour won't exactly be quaking in their boots.
  • NorthCadbollNorthCadboll Posts: 332
    There will be much excitement this evening on PB I guess.

    Gavin Williamson is sacked and will Theresa May use the vacant post to give a "bunk up" to a potential successor?

    A Peterborough by-election and will the odious Farage stand for an 8th attempt.

    Any truth in the earlier rumour about Keir Starmer?

    Has Theresa May given Sir Graham Brady a timetable for her departure?

    Is Pete Wishart wanting to become Speaker in order to hold his Perthshire seat unopposed when he stands to lose it to the Scottish Tories at the next election.

    Never mind that the English and Ulster local elections are on tomorrow.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    > @kle4 said:
    > > @dyedwoolie said:
    > > The petition % is more a sign of anger at all mps than at her in particular, although if course it's a big factor. Peterborough are speaking for the UK here
    >
    > Is there some sort of source to suggest that? Given both main parties would be very keen for her to go regardless now she was expelled from Labour, and given she is a convicted criminal, while I don't discount general discontent with MPs generally, without local knowledge it seems a reach to suggest it is the largest factor.

    The numbers are the source. There are only two options. What j suggest, or localised mass fury at this particular crime and criminal. I expect Brecon to also be a very high %, even though it's not a prison term conviction
    As always I could be wrong, but I dont feel like prefacing every post with 'In my opinion' the site is mature enough to know comment is opinion and fact backed with proof. No proof = opinion
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    > @AmpfieldAndy said:
    > > @williamglenn said:
    > > > @AndyJS said:
    > > > Interesting that Williamson is denying he's the guilty party.
    > > >
    > >
    > > He’s probably been advised by lawyers.
    >
    > Maybe. Of course it might be that he is actually not guilty. The evidence hasn’t been published.

    And nor could it be without prejudicing a trial
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,006
    > @CarlottaVance said:
    > https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1123647814188322816

    There may be one component of that advice that Gav is incapable of following.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    > @NorthCadboll said:
    > There will be much excitement this evening on PB I guess.
    >
    > Gavin Williamson is sacked and will Theresa May use the vacant post to give a "bunk up" to a potential successor?
    >
    > A Peterborough by-election and will the odious Farage stand for an 8th attempt.
    >
    > Any truth in the earlier rumour about Keir Starmer?
    >
    > Has Theresa May given Sir Graham Brady a timetable for her departure?
    >
    > Is Pete Wishart wanting to become Speaker in order to hold his Perthshire seat unopposed when he stands to lose it to the Scottish Tories at the next election.
    >
    > Never mind that the English and Ulster local elections are on tomorrow.
    >

    The local elections are very much part of the excitement on PB.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited May 2019
    TGOHF said:
    Gul Dukat did that as well. And he was wrong.

    And it took me nearly three minutes to sort out the total fucking mess that is Vanilla Comments. It's worse than Brexit.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited May 2019
    Zing......

    https://twitter.com/PaulGoodmanCH/status/1123648688306491392

    That is why I commissioned the cabinet secretary to establish an investigation into the unprecedented leak from the NSC meeting last week, and why I expected everyone connected to it – ministers and officials alike – to comply with it fully. You undertook to do so.

    I am therefore concerned by the manner in which you have engaged with this investigation.

    It has been conducted fairly, with the full co-operation of other NSC attendees.

    They have all answered questions, engaged properly, provided as much information as possible to assist with the investigation, and encouraged their staff to do the same. Your conduct has not been of the same standard as others.

    In our meeting this evening, I put to you the latest information from the investigation, which provides compelling evidence suggesting your responsibility for the unauthorised disclosure.

    No other credible version of events to explain this leak has been identified.

    It is vital that I have full confidence in the members of my cabinet and of the National Security Council. The gravity of this issue alone, and its ramifications for the operation of the NSC and the UK’s national interest, warrants the serious steps we have taken, and an equally serious response.

    It is therefore with great sadness that I have concluded that I can no longer have full confidence in you as secretary of state for defence and a minister in my cabinet and asked you to leave Her Majesty’s government.

  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    > @kle4 said:
    > > @Danny565 said:
    > > > @Danny565 said:
    > >
    > > > > @dyedwoolie said:
    > >
    > > > > > @FrancisUrquhart said:
    > >
    > > > > > > @tlg86 said:
    > >
    > > > > > > Recall petition succeeds.
    > >
    > > > > >
    > >
    > > > > > Can the jail bird stand in the recall election?
    > >
    > > > >
    > >
    > > > > Yes and take a few off labour
    > >
    > > >
    > >
    > > > Lol, why would anyone vote for her?
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Politically disinterested who vote and just know her name as their mp, its worth a few. Plus she will gave some personal support
    > >
    > > Large personal votes generally don't exist even for real longstanding MPs, let alone for someone who's only been an MP for two years and who was forced out in disgrace.
    > >
    > > If she's lucky, she'll match Simon Danczuk's 2%.
    > I didn't realise he did as poorly as that. Labour won't exactly be quaking in their boots.

    I suggested a few, I think she will get 1 or 2 % if she stands. It might be enough to lose labour this very close seat
    I think people might suspect i was talking multiple %, i was not. A few hundred votes
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124
    Sedwill in Williamson's office, earlier on today:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lNDXc7a8p4
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    > @Thayer5 said:
    > If the Brexit party select cleverly for Peterborough, it's theirs for the taking.

    It will be a fantastic test for them: Nigel Farage has to stand as the Brexit candidate.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Rory has done the hard yards over the last few weeks. Polishing the May premiership turd in the media. Fawning little creep.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Great cartoon Marf.
  • Could we summarise May's letter to Williamson with the words, "shut up and go away"?
  • Thayer5Thayer5 Posts: 97
    edited May 2019
    > @rcs1000 said:
    > > @Thayer5 said:
    > > If the Brexit party select cleverly for Peterborough, it's theirs for the taking.
    >
    > It will be a fantastic test for them: Nigel Farage has to stand as the Brexit candidate. <

    ___

    He's just said he won't stand. I reckon that's sensible. He's failed too often as a candidate, and he's needed to front the Brex Party anyway.

    They need someone credible, though. Anne Widdecombe? She is oddly popular.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    edited May 2019
    ..
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    edited May 2019

    Could we summarise May's letter to Williamson with the words, "shut up and go away"?

    "shut up and go Huawei"

    More seriously, Stephen Bush is typically good on this:

    "The dismissal reflects poorly on both Williamson and the woman who repeatedly promoted him. While the decision was taken at a meeting of the National Security Council, to which only ministers with security clearance are invited, it did not concern operational or classified information and the decision is fundamentally a public procurement one that deserves to be debated in full view. To do as May did and conduct a mole hunt right in heart of government is a ludicrous reaction, albeit one which typifies the British state’s attitude to and treatment of whistleblowers."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/05/theresa-may-and-gavin-williamsons-reputations-should-both-be-destroyed-his
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,722
    ydoethur said:

    TGOHF said:
    Gul Dukat did that as well. And he was wrong.

    And it took me nearly three minutes to sort out the total fucking mess that is Vanilla Comments. It's worse than Brexit.
    So Brexit could have been sorted in two minutes, perhaps?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    If May thinks it is Williamson she should withdraw the whip from him.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Change UK need to stand in Peterborough, test the remain alliance vote
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    > @Theuniondivvie said:
    > > @rottenborough said:
    > > https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1123640100666134530
    >
    > So that's his prisons resignation vow handily chucked in the bin.

    We shall never know if he would have kept to it. But it will follow him.> @dyedwoolie said:
    > > @kle4 said:
    > > > @Danny565 said:
    > > > > @Danny565 said:
    > > >
    > > > > > @dyedwoolie said:
    > > >
    > > > > > > @FrancisUrquhart said:
    > > >
    > > > > > > > @tlg86 said:
    > > >
    > > > > > > > Recall petition succeeds.
    > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > >
    > > > > > > Can the jail bird stand in the recall election?
    > > >
    > > > > >
    > > >
    > > > > > Yes and take a few off labour
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > > Lol, why would anyone vote for her?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Politically disinterested who vote and just know her name as their mp, its worth a few. Plus she will gave some personal support
    > > >
    > > > Large personal votes generally don't exist even for real longstanding MPs, let alone for someone who's only been an MP for two years and who was forced out in disgrace.
    > > >
    > > > If she's lucky, she'll match Simon Danczuk's 2%.
    > > I didn't realise he did as poorly as that. Labour won't exactly be quaking in their boots.
    >
    > I suggested a few, I think she will get 1 or 2 % if she stands. It might be enough to lose labour this very close seat
    > I think people might suspect i was talking multiple %, i was not. A few hundred votes

    With BP standing I don't see how it will remain a close seat.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Who was the last cabinet minister to be actually openly sacked rather than going through a formal exchange of letters pretending they had resigned? Charles Clarke?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    > @tlg86 said:
    > If May thinks it is Williamson she should withdraw the whip from him.

    I'm amazed she retains enough authority to sack him, she surely does not have enough to withdraw the whip.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,870
    > @AndyJS said:
    > > @oxfordsimon said:
    > > I think Onasanya should be billed for the cost of running the recall petition
    > >
    > > She should have quit immediately upon entering prison. We shouldn't pay for her ego/delusion
    >
    > Also, her vote was the deciding one in a crucial division in the HoC. I think a lot of people on all sides of politics are not happy about that.

    Hardly crucial, with hindsight, since nothing came of it.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    > @Thayer5 said:
    > If the Brexit party select cleverly for Peterborough, it's theirs for the taking.

    He’d have to defect first.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    geoffw said:

    ydoethur said:

    TGOHF said:
    Gul Dukat did that as well. And he was wrong.

    And it took me nearly three minutes to sort out the total fucking mess that is Vanilla Comments. It's worse than Brexit.
    So Brexit could have been sorted in two minutes, perhaps?
    David Davis said it could. Are you calling a disgraced failed cabinet minister a liar?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I have a bad feeling that if Farage stood as Brexit Party candidate in Peterborough he'd be favourite to win the seat in the current climate.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,355
    > @AndyJS said:
    > > @NorthCadboll said:
    > > There will be much excitement this evening on PB I guess.
    > >
    > > Gavin Williamson is sacked and will Theresa May use the vacant post to give a "bunk up" to a potential successor?
    > >
    > > A Peterborough by-election and will the odious Farage stand for an 8th attempt.
    > >
    > > Any truth in the earlier rumour about Keir Starmer?
    > >
    > > Has Theresa May given Sir Graham Brady a timetable for her departure?
    > >
    > > Is Pete Wishart wanting to become Speaker in order to hold his Perthshire seat unopposed when he stands to lose it to the Scottish Tories at the next election.
    > >
    > > Never mind that the English and Ulster local elections are on tomorrow.
    > >
    >
    > The local elections are very much part of the excitement on PB.

    And TSE has an AV thread lined up. Can life get any better?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    > @kle4 said:
    > > @Theuniondivvie said:
    > > > @rottenborough said:
    > > > https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1123640100666134530
    > >
    > > So that's his prisons resignation vow handily chucked in the bin.
    >
    > We shall never know if he would have kept to it. But it will follow him.> @dyedwoolie said:
    > > > @kle4 said:
    > > > > @Danny565 said:
    > > > > > @Danny565 said:
    > > > >
    > > > > > > @dyedwoolie said:
    > > > >
    > > > > > > > @FrancisUrquhart said:
    > > > >
    > > > > > > > > @tlg86 said:
    > > > >
    > > > > > > > > Recall petition succeeds.
    > > > >
    > > > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > > > > Can the jail bird stand in the recall election?
    > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > > > Yes and take a few off labour
    > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > > Lol, why would anyone vote for her?
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Politically disinterested who vote and just know her name as their mp, its worth a few. Plus she will gave some personal support
    > > > >
    > > > > Large personal votes generally don't exist even for real longstanding MPs, let alone for someone who's only been an MP for two years and who was forced out in disgrace.
    > > > >
    > > > > If she's lucky, she'll match Simon Danczuk's 2%.
    > > > I didn't realise he did as poorly as that. Labour won't exactly be quaking in their boots.
    > >
    > > I suggested a few, I think she will get 1 or 2 % if she stands. It might be enough to lose labour this very close seat
    > > I think people might suspect i was talking multiple %, i was not. A few hundred votes
    >
    > With BP standing I don't see how it will remain a close seat.

    If they stand
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    > @solarflare said:
    > https://twitter.com/GavinWilliamson/status/1123646864342048769/photo/1

    Has he been watching Line of Duty?
    "Mother of God...I'm being framed!"
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,870
    > @Roger said:
    > > @AndyJS said:
    > > Interesting that Williamson is denying he's the guilty party.
    > >
    > > https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1123637293577797632
    >
    > I think you take him at his word which means there will be a second sacking when they find the real culprit. Mario Puzo eat your heart out


    If he denies everything, in time and with new people at the top he can cling to the hope of some sort of come back. Any admission and his career is finished. So his stance isn’t really a surprise. In the circumstances the fact that he alone didn’t go out of his way to co-operate with the leak enquiry is evidence enough.
  • John_McLeanJohn_McLean Posts: 71
    > @rcs1000 said:
    > > @John_McLean said:
    > > Ah! But is Williamson the innocent sacrifial lamb set up to protect the heavyweight guilty by being left out hanging to dry, or is he actually guilty? Who knows with this lot.
    >
    > <sarcasm>
    > Yes, because this lot is competent enough to organise something like that.
    > </sarcasm>

    Thank you for confirmining that the Tories can organise something at long last. Unfortunately, the record for them being correct is not encouraging, to say the least
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,469
    edited May 2019
    IanB2 said:

    > @Roger said:

    > > @AndyJS said:

    > > Interesting that Williamson is denying he's the guilty party.

    > >

    > >



    >

    > I think you take him at his word which means there will be a second sacking when they find the real culprit. Mario Puzo eat your heart out





    If he denies everything, in time and with new people at the top he can cling to the hope of some sort of come back. Any admission and his career is finished. So his stance isn’t really a surprise. In the circumstances the fact that he alone didn’t go out of his way to co-operate with the leak enquiry is evidence enough.
    It's not though is it. Innocent until proven guilty. We don't even really know the circumstances.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    > @dyedwoolie said:
    > > @kle4 said:
    > > > @Theuniondivvie said:
    > > > > @rottenborough said:
    > > > > https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1123640100666134530
    > > >
    > > > So that's his prisons resignation vow handily chucked in the bin.
    > >
    > > We shall never know if he would have kept to it. But it will follow him.> @dyedwoolie said:
    > > > > @kle4 said:
    > > > > > @Danny565 said:
    > > > > > > @Danny565 said:
    > > > > >
    > > > > > > > @dyedwoolie said:
    > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > @FrancisUrquhart said:
    > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > > @tlg86 said:
    > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > > Recall petition succeeds.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > Can the jail bird stand in the recall election?
    > > > > >
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > > > Yes and take a few off labour
    > > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > > Lol, why would anyone vote for her?
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Politically disinterested who vote and just know her name as their mp, its worth a few. Plus she will gave some personal support
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Large personal votes generally don't exist even for real longstanding MPs, let alone for someone who's only been an MP for two years and who was forced out in disgrace.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > If she's lucky, she'll match Simon Danczuk's 2%.
    > > > > I didn't realise he did as poorly as that. Labour won't exactly be quaking in their boots.
    > > >
    > > > I suggested a few, I think she will get 1 or 2 % if she stands. It might be enough to lose labour this very close seat
    > > > I think people might suspect i was talking multiple %, i was not. A few hundred votes
    > >
    > > With BP standing I don't see how it will remain a close seat.
    >
    > If they stand

    They are
  • Thayer5Thayer5 Posts: 97
    edited May 2019
    > @dyedwoolie said:

    > >
    > > With BP standing I don't see how it will remain a close seat.
    >
    > If they stand <

    ___

    Farage has said:

    1. That the Brexit Party will compete in Peterborough

    and

    2. The candidate will not be him
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631


    And TSE has an AV thread lined up. Can life get any better?

    Did Eagles make it over to Barcelona?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited May 2019
    > @CarlottaVance said:
    > https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/1123650883647168512

    MPs really are a bunch of twats, aren't they? I'm sure everyone hopes those sacked are for good reason, but are they really saying they should all be able to see the details of investigations like this?

    Seems like this 'unease' is more likely just more in the proxy battles between MPs and No.10.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Just saw the news from Germany.

    Chuckle.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    > @oxfordsimon said:
    > > @kle4 said:
    > > > @AndyJS said:
    > > > 27% of Peterborough voters signed the petition. That's a much higher percentage than most people were expecting.
    > >
    > > Encouraging stuff. Lawbreaking by MPs should be punished in such a fashion. Be interesting to see what the result of the next recall is.
    >
    > Brecon & Radnor - suspect that might not be so emphatic. There was no prison term and no personal gain. Illegal - absolutely - but not as serious.

    From what I understand from Nick Palmer, it sounds like the MP has been pretty harshly treated. I certainly wouldn't sign the recall petition.

    Unless I had money riding on it, of course.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,139
    > @Thayer5 said:
    > > @dyedwoolie said:
    >
    > > >
    > > > With BP standing I don't see how it will remain a close seat.
    > >
    > > If they stand <
    >
    > ___
    >
    > Farage has said:
    >
    > 1. That the Brexit Party will compete in Peterborough
    >
    > and
    >
    > 2. The candidate will not be him
    >
    >

    JRM sister ?????
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mordaunt should clearly be favourite to be next Con leader.

    So I can hedge my bet on her.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Would be ironic if it's not Brexit that does for Theresa May in the end but Huawei...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    > @Gallowgate said:
    > > @Roger said:
    >
    > > > @AndyJS said:
    >
    > > > Interesting that Williamson is denying he's the guilty party.
    >
    > > >
    >
    > > > https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1123637293577797632
    >
    >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > I think you take him at his word which means there will be a second sacking when they find the real culprit. Mario Puzo eat your heart out
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > If he denies everything, in time and with new people at the top he can cling to the hope of some sort of come back. Any admission and his career is finished. So his stance isn’t really a surprise. In the circumstances the fact that he alone didn’t go out of his way to co-operate with the leak enquiry is evidence enough.
    >
    > It's not though is it. Innocent until proven guilty. We don't even really know the circumstances.

    We don't need to, it's a political matter at present, we don't need to meet criminal standards of proof here. If he is not the guilty party that is unfortunate for him and I hope he gets vindication, but it is hardly unreasonable that if he was not even cooperating properly - and it is a strong statement to suggest that - then the PM will have lost confidence in him and thinks he should be sacked. If he is innocent then his apparent lack of cooperation is at the least gross incompetence.
  • AmpfieldAndyAmpfieldAndy Posts: 1,445
    > @kle4 said:
    > > @CarlottaVance said:
    > > https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/1123650883647168512
    >
    > MPs really are a bunch of twats, aren't they? I'm sure everyone hopes those sacked are for good reason, but are they really saying they should all be able to see the details of investigations like this?
    >
    > Seems like this 'unease' is more likely just more in the proxy battles between MPs and No.10.

    Not convinced. Clearly either May or Williamson is lying and neither has much credibility. Think it is important to know who for sure. If it’s May, Carswell is right on the money.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,722
    Is all this furore burying the issue behind it - viz the Huawei decision by TM?
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    > @TheJezziah said:
    > ..

    She is a trained solicitor (though not for much longer in all likelihood), an elected representative - and a convicted criminal.

    There shouldn't be a 12 month lower limit for forcing convicted MPs from office - it should be ANY prison time. No ifs, no buts. Yes, the appeal process should be allowed to play out. But once concluded, any prison time should immediately lead to the removal of that MP from office.

    I cannot see any acceptable reason for her to have not resigned - other than for personal gain. And that is not an honourable course of action on her part.

    The video she released did nothing to help her cause. Nor did the fact that her attempted appeal was so poorly prepared that it was immediately dismissed.

    I do want the law changed so that convicted politicians who get any prison time are removed from public life. Onasanya should have resigned as soon as her appeal failed. Her decision not to do that has cost over £500K
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,337
    > @kle4 said:
    > > @tlg86 said:
    > > If May thinks it is Williamson she should withdraw the whip from him.
    >
    > I'm amazed she retains enough authority to sack him, she surely does not have enough to withdraw the whip.

    You’d imagine his Privy Council membership would be in some jeopardy for starters. Right Honourable?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    > @oxfordsimon said:

    > I do want the law changed so that convicted politicians who get any prison time are removed from public life. Onasanya should have resigned as soon as her appeal failed.

    I've yet to see a reason why when the rule on convictions was brought in it was set at 12 months and not any prison time.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    > @geoffw said:
    > Is all this furore burying the issue behind it - viz the Huawei decision by TM?

    Yes. But probably not for long...

    As May has gone against her cabinet, MI5 and MI6 and to involve Huawei in our affairs she's stored up a lot of powerful enemies (which is why it seems odd they can so definitively finger Williamson for this)

    I think they'll be a lot more to come on this.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,139
    > @GIN1138 said:
    > Would be ironic if it's not Brexit that does for Theresa May in the end but Huawei...
    >

    Ironically this may have strengthened TM and put in place her successor but I know you dislike her with a passion
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    > @AmpfieldAndy said:
    > > @kle4 said:
    > > > @CarlottaVance said:
    > > > https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/1123650883647168512
    > >
    > > MPs really are a bunch of twats, aren't they? I'm sure everyone hopes those sacked are for good reason, but are they really saying they should all be able to see the details of investigations like this?
    > >
    > > Seems like this 'unease' is more likely just more in the proxy battles between MPs and No.10.
    >
    > Not convinced. Clearly either May or Williamson is lying and neither has much credibility. Think it is important to know who for sure. If it’s May, Carswell is right on the money.

    I have to disagree. I would like to know, but I think suggesting these matters should be opened to public disclosure flippantly on the basis of curiosity is using a hammer to crack a nut.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    Does anybody know how good a relationship Williamson has with his kids? Because there have been times I would been tempted to swear on their lives so as to get rid of them.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    > @GIN1138 said:
    > Would be ironic if it's not Brexit that does for Theresa May in the end but Huawei...
    >

    Are you betting upto 5Gs on that ?? .. :smiley:
  • Thayer5Thayer5 Posts: 97
    edited May 2019
    > @oxfordsimon said:

    I do want the law changed so that convicted politicians who get any prison time are removed from public life. Onasanya should have resigned as soon as her appeal failed. Her decision not to do that has cost over £500K<

    ___

    +1
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    > @AmpfieldAndy said:
    > > @kle4 said:
    > > > @CarlottaVance said:
    > > > https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/1123650883647168512
    > >
    > > MPs really are a bunch of twats, aren't they? I'm sure everyone hopes those sacked are for good reason, but are they really saying they should all be able to see the details of investigations like this?
    > >
    > > Seems like this 'unease' is more likely just more in the proxy battles between MPs and No.10.
    >
    > Not convinced. Clearly either May or Williamson is lying and neither has much credibility. Think it is important to know who for sure. If it’s May, Carswell is right on the money.

    But any evidence can't be disclosed at this point because it might prejudice a future prosecution.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,355
    > @AmpfieldAndy said:
    > > @kle4 said:
    > > > @CarlottaVance said:
    > > > https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/1123650883647168512
    > >
    > > MPs really are a bunch of twats, aren't they? I'm sure everyone hopes those sacked are for good reason, but are they really saying they should all be able to see the details of investigations like this?
    > >
    > > Seems like this 'unease' is more likely just more in the proxy battles between MPs and No.10.
    >
    > Not convinced. Clearly either May or Williamson is lying and neither has much credibility. Think it is important to know who for sure. If it’s May, Carswell is right on the money.

    If he had admitted it, he would have had little choice but to plead guilty at any subsequent trial. That would probably have meant chokey, up to two years.

    In the circumstances, perfectly understandable that he would deny the crime.

    The other possibility of course is that he didn't do it, in which case I expect we will be hearing more from him.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    PM says "Matter closed. No need for Police inquiry."
    I'll bet she sees no need. But is it up to her?
    It certainly ought not to be.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840

    > @TheJezziah said:

    > ..



    She is a trained solicitor (though not for much longer in all likelihood), an elected representative - and a convicted criminal.



    There shouldn't be a 12 month lower limit for forcing convicted MPs from office - it should be ANY prison time. No ifs, no buts. Yes, the appeal process should be allowed to play out. But once concluded, any prison time should immediately lead to the removal of that MP from office.



    I cannot see any acceptable reason for her to have not resigned - other than for personal gain. And that is not an honourable course of action on her part.



    The video she released did nothing to help her cause. Nor did the fact that her attempted appeal was so poorly prepared that it was immediately dismissed.



    I do want the law changed so that convicted politicians who get any prison time are removed from public life. Onasanya should have resigned as soon as her appeal failed. Her decision not to do that has cost over £500K

    We cannot legally compel people to act honourably, I completely agree she hasn't though. My objection to a stronger rule might be a popular politician who in a rather more unfortunate or justified set of circumstances ends up on the wrong side of the rule. Although maybe I am thinking a bit too much about worst case scenario...

    Maybe politicians who are very likely to be recalled could be offered a financial incentive to step down, if she'd been offered a months more wages than she got now it would have been in her self interest to take it and we would have saved money on the recall.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,710
    > @rcs1000 said:
    > Does anybody know how good a relationship Williamson has with his kids? Because there have been times I would been tempted to swear on their lives so as to get rid of them.

    And did he also add "cross my heart and hope to die"??!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    > @rcs1000 said:
    > Does anybody know how good a relationship Williamson has with his kids? Because there have been times I would been tempted to swear on their lives so as to get rid of them.

    “To throw ones kids into the fireplace” could be a new expression for sacrificing anything to save your own skin.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    > @dixiedean said:
    > PM says "Matter closed. No need for Police inquiry."
    > I'll bet she sees no need. But is it up to her?
    > It certainly ought not to be.

    Ridiculous, this absolutely should be a police matter.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Anyway, I must be off. Interesting times (even more so than expected) ahead.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    > @ydoethur said:
    > Who was the last cabinet minister to be actually openly sacked rather than going through a formal exchange of letters pretending they had resigned? Charles Clarke?

    Osborne?
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    > @Peter_the_Punter said:
    > > @AmpfieldAndy said:
    > > > @kle4 said:
    > > > > @CarlottaVance said:
    > > > > https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/1123650883647168512
    > > >
    > > > MPs really are a bunch of twats, aren't they? I'm sure everyone hopes those sacked are for good reason, but are they really saying they should all be able to see the details of investigations like this?
    > > >
    > > > Seems like this 'unease' is more likely just more in the proxy battles between MPs and No.10.
    > >
    > > Not convinced. Clearly either May or Williamson is lying and neither has much credibility. Think it is important to know who for sure. If it’s May, Carswell is right on the money.
    >
    > If he had admitted it, he would have had little choice but to plead guilty at any subsequent trial. That would probably have meant chokey, up to two years.
    >
    > In the circumstances, perfectly understandable that he would deny the crime.
    >
    > The other possibility of course is that he didn't do it, in which case I expect we will be hearing more from him.

    They're probably reeling from the realisation that Theresa May still wields power.

    About 10,000 times more than they do.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited May 2019
    GIN1138 said:

    @AndyJS said:


    Will the Georgeous One be standing for the Brexit Party? :D
    It would be a stupid idea but Farage seems to have a bromance with him so probably.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    tlg86 said:

    > @dixiedean said:

    > PM says "Matter closed. No need for Police inquiry."

    > I'll bet she sees no need. But is it up to her?

    > It certainly ought not to be.



    Ridiculous, this absolutely should be a police matter.

    Bit of a messy mix though, having the police trudging through a political situation...
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    > @TheJezziah said:
    > > @TheJezziah said:
    >
    > > ..
    >
    >
    >
    > She is a trained solicitor (though not for much longer in all likelihood), an elected representative - and a convicted criminal.
    >
    >
    >
    > There shouldn't be a 12 month lower limit for forcing convicted MPs from office - it should be ANY prison time. No ifs, no buts. Yes, the appeal process should be allowed to play out. But once concluded, any prison time should immediately lead to the removal of that MP from office.
    >
    >
    >
    > I cannot see any acceptable reason for her to have not resigned - other than for personal gain. And that is not an honourable course of action on her part.
    >
    >
    >
    > The video she released did nothing to help her cause. Nor did the fact that her attempted appeal was so poorly prepared that it was immediately dismissed.
    >
    >
    >
    > I do want the law changed so that convicted politicians who get any prison time are removed from public life. Onasanya should have resigned as soon as her appeal failed. Her decision not to do that has cost over £500K
    >
    > We cannot legally compel people to act honourably, I completely agree she hasn't though. My objection to a stronger rule might be a popular politician who in a rather more unfortunate or justified set of circumstances ends up on the wrong side of the rule. Although maybe I am thinking a bit too much about worst case scenario...
    >
    > Maybe politicians who are very likely to be recalled could be offered a financial incentive to step down, if she'd been offered a months more wages than she got now it would have been in her self interest to take it and we would have saved money on the recall.

    I don't think you should be paid off under these circumstances. She broke the law. She served prison time. She should have lost her position as MP with no financial compensation. Paying off criminals isn't good for anyone.
  • AmpfieldAndyAmpfieldAndy Posts: 1,445
    > @rcs1000 said:
    > > @AmpfieldAndy said:
    > > > @kle4 said:
    > > > > @CarlottaVance said:
    > > > > https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/1123650883647168512
    > > >
    > > > MPs really are a bunch of twats, aren't they? I'm sure everyone hopes those sacked are for good reason, but are they really saying they should all be able to see the details of investigations like this?
    > > >
    > > > Seems like this 'unease' is more likely just more in the proxy battles between MPs and No.10.
    > >
    > > Not convinced. Clearly either May or Williamson is lying and neither has much credibility. Think it is important to know who for sure. If it’s May, Carswell is right on the money.
    >
    > But any evidence can't be disclosed at this point because it might prejudice a future prosecution.
    >
    >

    Sure. Why is why the police have to be involved. So the matter can’t be closed as May has said.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    > @GIN1138 said:
    > > @geoffw said:
    > > Is all this furore burying the issue behind it - viz the Huawei decision by TM?
    >
    > Yes. But probably not for long...
    >
    > As May has gone against her cabinet, MI5 and MI6 and to involve Huawei in our affairs she's stored up a lot of powerful enemies (which is why it seems odd they can so definitively finger Williamson for this)
    >
    > I think they'll be a lot more to come on this.

    Deep state, huh?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    All we need now is an explosive resignation speech in the House in which Williamson attacks Sedwill.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited May 2019

    > @ydoethur said:
    Who was the last cabinet minister to be actually openly sacked rather than going through a formal exchange of letters pretending they had resigned? Charles Clarke?

    Osborne?

    At a change of Prime Minister, all office holders automatically lose their posts. So no, he wasn't sacked, he just wasn't reappointed.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    > @justin124 said:
    > All we need now is an explosive resignation speech in the House in which Williamson attacks Sedwill.

    After a Telegraph headline of "PS - It was not him."
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48123355

    Bercow acted very fast. So she's no longer an MP. Wow.
  • AmpfieldAndyAmpfieldAndy Posts: 1,445
    > @kle4 said:
    > > @AmpfieldAndy said:
    > > > @kle4 said:
    > > > > @CarlottaVance said:
    > > > > https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/1123650883647168512
    > > >
    > > > MPs really are a bunch of twats, aren't they? I'm sure everyone hopes those sacked are for good reason, but are they really saying they should all be able to see the details of investigations like this?
    > > >
    > > > Seems like this 'unease' is more likely just more in the proxy battles between MPs and No.10.
    > >
    > > Not convinced. Clearly either May or Williamson is lying and neither has much credibility. Think it is important to know who for sure. If it’s May, Carswell is right on the money.
    >
    > I have to disagree. I would like to know, but I think suggesting these matters should be opened to public disclosure flippantly on the basis of curiosity is using a hammer to crack a nut.


    I was thinking police rather than public. Mea culpa for not making that clear.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    rcs1000 said:

    Does anybody know how good a relationship Williamson has with his kids? Because there have been times I would been tempted to swear on their lives so as to get rid of them.

    Why? What have you got against Williamson's baby goats?
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    > @AmpfieldAndy said:
    > > @rcs1000 said:
    > > > @AmpfieldAndy said:
    > > > > @kle4 said:
    > > > > > @CarlottaVance said:
    > > > > > https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/1123650883647168512
    > > > >
    > > > > MPs really are a bunch of twats, aren't they? I'm sure everyone hopes those sacked are for good reason, but are they really saying they should all be able to see the details of investigations like this?
    > > > >
    > > > > Seems like this 'unease' is more likely just more in the proxy battles between MPs and No.10.
    > > >
    > > > Not convinced. Clearly either May or Williamson is lying and neither has much credibility. Think it is important to know who for sure. If it’s May, Carswell is right on the money.
    > >
    > > But any evidence can't be disclosed at this point because it might prejudice a future prosecution.
    > >
    > >
    >
    > Sure. Why is why the police have to be involved. So the matter can’t be closed as May has said.

    The Police don't need May to give them permission to investigate. Indeed it is better to keep politicians away from having any role in instigating such processes
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    edited May 2019

    tlg86 said:

    > @dixiedean said:

    > PM says "Matter closed. No need for Police inquiry."

    > I'll bet she sees no need. But is it up to her?

    > It certainly ought not to be.



    Ridiculous, this absolutely should be a police matter.

    Bit of a messy mix though, having the police trudging through a political situation...
    For a potential breach of the Official Secrets Act? Absolutely the police should be called in.

    There were only a few people in the room, so either the room was bugged or someone present was passing secrets to a journalist. The journo is (rightly) not going to give up his source, so there needs to be an investigation into the evidence. I’m sure there’s a few spooks with Top Secret clearance that hide in Scotland Yard waiting for the call.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    > @Mysticrose said:
    > https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48123355
    >
    > Bercow acted very fast. So she's no longer an MP. Wow.

    That's the law - which she should have known about...

    The only people I feel sorry for are her staff - who have also lost their jobs.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    > @JackW said:
    > > @GIN1138 said:
    > > Would be ironic if it's not Brexit that does for Theresa May in the end but Huawei...
    > >
    >
    > Are you betting upto 5Gs on that ?? .. :smiley:

    Will we be seeing a special Peterborough version of your ARSE in due course? :D
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    > @ydoethur said:
    > > @ydoethur said:
    > Who was the last cabinet minister to be actually openly sacked rather than going through a formal exchange of letters pretending they had resigned? Charles Clarke?
    >
    > Osborne?
    >
    > At a change of Prime Minister, all office holders automatically lose their posts. So no, he wasn't sacked, he just wasn't reappointed.

    I thought she refused him the option of resigning.
  • AmpfieldAndyAmpfieldAndy Posts: 1,445
    > @oxfordsimon said:
    > > @AmpfieldAndy said:
    > > > @rcs1000 said:
    > > > > @AmpfieldAndy said:
    > > > > > @kle4 said:
    > > > > > > @CarlottaVance said:
    > > > > > > https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/1123650883647168512
    > > > > >
    > > > > > MPs really are a bunch of twats, aren't they? I'm sure everyone hopes those sacked are for good reason, but are they really saying they should all be able to see the details of investigations like this?
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Seems like this 'unease' is more likely just more in the proxy battles between MPs and No.10.
    > > > >
    > > > > Not convinced. Clearly either May or Williamson is lying and neither has much credibility. Think it is important to know who for sure. If it’s May, Carswell is right on the money.
    > > >
    > > > But any evidence can't be disclosed at this point because it might prejudice a future prosecution.
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > > Sure. Why is why the police have to be involved. So the matter can’t be closed as May has said.
    >
    > The Police don't need May to give them permission to investigate. Indeed it is better to keep politicians away from having any role in instigating such processes

    Sure, but they should have full disclosure from May and Sedwill.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840

    > @TheJezziah said:

    > > @TheJezziah said:


    > She is a trained solicitor (though not for much longer in all likelihood), an elected representative - and a convicted criminal.

    > There shouldn't be a 12 month lower limit for forcing convicted MPs from office - it should be ANY prison time. No ifs, no buts. Yes, the appeal process should be allowed to play out. But once concluded, any prison time should immediately lead to the removal of that MP from office.


    > I cannot see any acceptable reason for her to have not resigned - other than for personal gain. And that is not an honourable course of action on her part.

    >

    >

    >

    > The video she released did nothing to help her cause. Nor did the fact that her attempted appeal was so poorly prepared that it was immediately dismissed.

    >

    >

    >

    > I do want the law changed so that convicted politicians who get any prison time are removed from public life. Onasanya should have resigned as soon as her appeal failed. Her decision not to do that has cost over £500K

    >

    > We cannot legally compel people to act honourably, I completely agree she hasn't though. My objection to a stronger rule might be a popular politician who in a rather more unfortunate or justified set of circumstances ends up on the wrong side of the rule. Although maybe I am thinking a bit too much about worst case scenario...

    >

    > Maybe politicians who are very likely to be recalled could be offered a financial incentive to step down, if she'd been offered a months more wages than she got now it would have been in her self interest to take it and we would have saved money on the recall.



    I don't think you should be paid off under these circumstances. She broke the law. She served prison time. She should have lost her position as MP with no financial compensation. Paying off criminals isn't good for anyone.

    Well unless we did change the rules the idea would be there isn't a financial incentive to hang on and force a recall. Assuming Fiona did it just for the money we would have saved £500K minus a months wages and Peterborough would have had to put up with her as their MP for less time. I was thinking of it as a lesser evil.

    I'm reluctant about forcing elected people charged with minor things out of politics without the agreement of their electorate. In this situation it was obvious but in other situations it might not be so clear cut. Doing it this way has cost more time and effort but they are the costs of both justice and democracy.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2019
    > @dyedwoolie said:
    > Change UK need to stand in Peterborough, test the remain alliance vote

    It isn't, and never has been, a good place for liberal centrists. Even in 1983 Labour stayed in second place over the SDP/Liberal Alliance.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited May 2019
    rcs1000 said:

    > @ydoethur said:

    > > @ydoethur said:

    > Who was the last cabinet minister to be actually openly sacked rather than going through a formal exchange of letters pretending they had resigned? Charles Clarke?

    >

    > Osborne?

    >

    > At a change of Prime Minister, all office holders automatically lose their posts. So no, he wasn't sacked, he just wasn't reappointed.



    I thought she refused him the option of resigning.

    Since he had no office, what could he have resigned?

    Any progress in blockquote?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    > @justin124 said:
    > All we need now is an explosive resignation speech in the House in which Williamson attacks Sedwill.

    It sounds like Tim Shipman would be happy to write it.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    > @dixiedean said:
    > PM says "Matter closed. No need for Police inquiry."
    > I'll bet she sees no need. But is it up to her?
    > It certainly ought not to be.

    If Williamson is genuinely convinced of his innocence he could always refer the matter himself to the police?
This discussion has been closed.