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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The 2020 Democrat contest is likely to go all the way to the c

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  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    isam said:
    Such a small error barely worth even mentioning.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    kinabalu said:

    Yes, fascinating race for the Dem Nom. I like Kamala Harris but I'm getting a little concerned about the lack of buzz around her. It's all Mayor Pete, and Run Joe Run! and Bernie the Burn, and of course the man who is quite simply 'Beto' (even to his wife).

    Meanwhile my pick has thus far failed to break through. She is referred to in a way that is po-faced and respectful rather than with excitement and affection. The worst sign of all is that she is still called 'Harris' by all and sundry despite being blessed with the very catchy first name of Kamala.

    This even runs to on here, I'm disappointed to see. Harris this, Harris that, Harris the other. It's not good enough. So a heartfelt plea from me this morning. Can we move up a gear please on KH? On KAMALA. Let's get this baby rolling!

    That would be a serious faux pas, the only name that can acceptably be capitalized in this race is KLOBUCHAR
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,878
    FPT:
    viewcode said:



    Whether Jeremy Corbyn is an anti-Semite is one thing. But @JosiasJessop stated that "he'd probably prefer to be dining with...anti-Semites", which - given Corbyn's past preferences - is fair comment.

    [There's a comments policy????]

    I think there is. I can think of a few things that could invite an instant ban.

    Something like, and I use these as an example only just to make myself clear:

    “I like pineapple on pizza.”
    “I don’t care much for Liverpool FC despite being from Liverpool.”
    “I might vote [any non-Labour option] in my constituency of Bootle.”
    “I find cricket an incredibly boring sport.”
    “I don’t understand Sunil’s Star Wars tropes having never watched Star Wars. And when I get on Merseyrail’s 507 class, I don’t get excited. It’s just a train.”

    I don’t think ANY of that, of course.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    @TheValiant - you missed the annex on AV comments then? :p
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,244
    Nigelb said:

    O’Rourke has gone pretty dark, too - he simply isn’t doing TV at the moment, in favour of ‘meeting the people’. Whether there’s some smart plan underlying this, or it’s just a misguided attempt to replicate his Texas campaign in a national scale, is a open question.

    Don’t know about Kamala (there, I said it for you). She has the base (money and support) and the political skills to be a contender, but she needs to break out of the pack by the summer.

    Yes, O'Rourke versus Kamala. Much better vocab. Cheers.

    The former - 'O'Rourke' - does indeed seem to have gone a bit flat. I saw a quote the other day from someone, said that he's gone from the new Bobby K to being 'the man that says sorry a lot and stands on tables' - which was pretty brutal, I thought.

    Still, marathon not a sprint bla bla and I am hoping that Kamala is just conserving energy at this early stage. So long as she is right there as they are rounding the Cutty Sark. If she is then I think she will come through. I find her and Warren the most impressive of the candidates, and I prefer her because she has IMO a better chance of slaying the beast.

    EDIT: Oddly, Warren does not need the first name thing. She is better suited by Warren than Elizabeth, and Liz does not work at all. Perhaps because she was (and therefore is and will always be) a Harvard Professor.
  • thecommissionerthecommissioner Posts: 165
    edited April 2019

    Now if we can get the French government to express similar concerns perhaps the Conservatives will have a rethink on the merits of the backstop:

    ' It is a dastardly trap, designed to lock freedom-loving Britain into the European Union’s protectionist customs union: that is the argument against the so-called backstop, cited by hardline Brexit advocates as the main reason why they have thrice voted down Theresa May’s deal with the European Union.

    But as the dust settles after months of chaos in Westminster, suspicions are growing on the other side of the Channel that the backstop could in fact be the very opposite: a brilliant deception device constructed by crack UK negotiators, which would allow a more reckless British prime minister to undermine the EU’s green and social standards while still keeping access to the European single market.
    '

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/26/irish-backstop-could-undermine-eu-standards-report-says

    The Greens are, on current polling, the main opposition in Germany and should score well in the european elections. They polled just under 11% in 2014 but are hovering just under 20% now.

    They will displace a fair number of the socialist/democratic German bloc in Brussels in May.

    We've been so focussed on an election/referendum in the UK that we may be missing the potential for a change in the dynamic on the other side of the table.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,244

    That would be a serious faux pas, the only name that can acceptably be capitalized in this race is KLOBUCHAR

    Ah yes of course.

    And fine by me. I am happy to make do with 'Kamala'.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    RobD said:

    isam said:
    Such a small error barely worth even mentioning.
    Honestly, if the NS had any honour they would sack the editor. It's disgraceful. The government we're too quick to give in to the PC idiots as well.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    DavidL said:

    isam said:

    Since I've been following politics, since circa 1990, every Presidential cycle has seen a brokered convention predicted every time for at least one party, but it is has never happened, however this time I won't be surprised if it happens.

    What did you make of the minutes silence for Tommy Smith last night? Was there talk of it not being observed?
    I thought the convention these days was for a minute's applause for a life well lived. It also prevents idiots from being disrespectful.
    Often is, but last nights was silence. A bit surprising, at a time where offensive comments from people’s pasts are shone a light on, that the club held the tribute and the black players bowed their heads
  • macisbackmacisback Posts: 382
    Andrew said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Trump is weak.

    Trump's current Gallup approval rating of 45% is actually slightly higher than the 44% Obama had in the April of his third year, the 42% Reagan had in the April of his third year and the 40% Carter had in his third year.


    https://news.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx

    2/3 Of those presidents were re elected


    Yougov and ABC have 39%.

    If you believe those polls frankly you would believe anything.
  • macisbackmacisback Posts: 382
    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Trump is weak.

    Trump's current Gallup approval rating of 45% is actually slightly higher than the 44% Obama had in the April of his third year, the 42% Reagan had in the April of his third year and the 40% Carter had in his third year.


    https://news.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx

    2/3 Of those presidents were re elected

    Trump's weighted average is currently 41%.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

    That is worse at this stage of his presidency than Obama, GWB, Clinton, HWB, Ford, Nixon, LBJ and JFK. He equals Reagan and is 1% ahead of Carter. Not great is it? I can't see him doing a Reagan and let others run the presidency for him while he smiles benevolently.

    EDIT: And that is in spite of the economy doing well.
    Let these polls which are used as opinion shapers keep under valuing Trumps approval, it keeps his odds at great value in the UK Market. Taking easy money off bookies is always very satisfying.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,006
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    ICYMI - The ERG and Leavers in general may well have destroyed the Union, big hand clap for them.

    And the Tory party into the bargain.
    What a bargain!
    Given what might replace it, be careful what you wish for.

    As ever it doesn't really matter what I wish for, the juggernaut of English nationalism has set off of its own volition. I'd rather that wasn't the case but on balance I'd prefer not to be chained behind it. As has been suggested by people brighter than me, it may turn out that only England has the necessary heft to break the Union.
    Fair enough - but spare a thought for us unfortunates south of the border.

    I do, but as I believe Scotland should be able to decide on its place in the world I couldn't deny that to England. I might wish you had better quality politicians but again that's an English Pols for English Voters type of thing.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Heidi Allen:

    "If you’re an MP with about 30,000 more electorates than you should have because the area is growing so much – and they’re all massive Remainers with 24 PhDs each and have an opinion – then you’re really busy."

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/house/house-magazine/103461/heidi-allen-“-fact-people-are-trying-pick
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    Fenman said:

    HYUFD said:

    macisback said:

    rcs1000 said:

    macisback said:

    Trump has been a pleasant surprise how well he has grown into the job. Maybe he had to be the coarse bully to beat Bush and Clinton and the massive machine behind them. Now he sounds very different to the 2016 campaign and the Economic performance of the USA is strong. I expect Trump to win handily whoever he comes up against without having to play dirty this time. I wouldn't be surprised to see Mrs Obama come into the running late, none of the current front runners look winners to me.

    Donald Trump may will win.

    But the major reason the economy is so strong is that the government has enacted major fiscal stimulus late in the economic cycle.

    For this reason, I really hope he wins. Because it's not really very fair to leave someone else with a massive fiscal deficit and a debt-to-gdp at a quarter century high at the end of a decade long economic expansion.
    The biggest problem they have is they spend too much, really Trump will need to win back the House as well to complete the job he has started. There would be far fewer Bush loyalists to hinder this time around.
    No President since Truman has seen his party win back the House after losing it in the midterms, even if they were re elected
    Remember the House boundaries must be redrawn by 2020, with the Democrats in charge of the process.
    The new boundaries will be apportioned based on the 2020 census. They come into effect for the 2022 elections.
    The last one was on the 2010 census for the 2012 electoral cycle.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,006
    Denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance...then Brexit!

    https://twitter.com/ThatTimWalker/status/1121545965259886593
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance...then Brexit!

    https://twitter.com/ThatTimWalker/status/1121545965259886593

    https://twitter.com/OwenPaterson/status/1122069020750909440

    No, there really isn't...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited April 2019
    Human rights workers at Amnesty International are braced for scores of redundancies after the management admitted to a hole in its budget of up to £17m to the end of 2020.

    Next week Naidoo is due to unveil a new strategic direction, which he has previously indicated requires treating issues like climate change as core components of the human rights struggle. Sources said it appears he wants to increase the focus on campaigning, rather than traditional research-led human rights investigations.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/27/amnesty-international-staff-braced-for-redundancies

    So bugger those jailed for their political views, more direct action protests on climate change. Isn't the later what GreenPeace is for?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    Scott_P said:
    I wonder how much they paid some marketing / PR people for that totally forgetable logo?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    F1: fastest man in the third sector is Raikkonen. He's having quite a good season so far.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,537
    edited April 2019



    The Greens are, on current polling, the main opposition in Germany and should score well in the european elections. They polled just under 11% in 2014 but are hovering just under 20% now.

    They will displace a fair number of the socialist/democratic German bloc in Brussels in May.

    We've been so focussed on an election/referendum in the UK that we may be missing the potential for a change in the dynamic on the other side of the table.

    I agree that the German Greens will do well and the Social Demorats badly, but I don't think that will change anything relating to Brexit. The two parties are in the broad centre-left spectrum in the European Parliament and commonly vote together. And large as Germany is, a shift of 10% of their MEPs won't do much to the overall numbers.

    There is clearly a rise in nationalist/populist MEPs coming, and that will affect issues like refugees. But again I'm not aware that e.g. Salvini has any particular opinions about Brexit.

    Latest German polling for the Euros: CDU/CSU 32% (-3 compared with last time), SocDems 18% (-9), Greens 19% (+8), FDP (pro-business liberals) 7 (+3), Left 6 (-1), AfD 10 (+3).
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    macisback said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Trump is weak.

    Trump's current Gallup approval rating of 45% is actually slightly higher than the 44% Obama had in the April of his third year, the 42% Reagan had in the April of his third year and the 40% Carter had in his third year.


    https://news.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx

    2/3 Of those presidents were re elected

    Trump's weighted average is currently 41%.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

    That is worse at this stage of his presidency than Obama, GWB, Clinton, HWB, Ford, Nixon, LBJ and JFK. He equals Reagan and is 1% ahead of Carter. Not great is it? I can't see him doing a Reagan and let others run the presidency for him while he smiles benevolently.

    EDIT: And that is in spite of the economy doing well.
    Let these polls which are used as opinion shapers keep under valuing Trumps approval, it keeps his odds at great value in the UK Market. Taking easy money off bookies is always very satisfying.
    Why does it undervalue his approval?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772



    The Greens are, on current polling, the main opposition in Germany and should score well in the european elections. They polled just under 11% in 2014 but are hovering just under 20% now.

    They will displace a fair number of the socialist/democratic German bloc in Brussels in May.

    We've been so focussed on an election/referendum in the UK that we may be missing the potential for a change in the dynamic on the other side of the table.

    I agree that the German Greens will do well and the Social Demorats badly, but I don't think that will change anything relating to Brexit. The two parties are in the broad centre-left spectrum in the European Parliament and commonly vote together. And large as Germany is, a shift of 10% of their MEPs won't do much to the overall numbers.

    There is clearly a rise in nationalist/populist MEPs coming, and that will affect issues like refugees. But again I'm not aware that e.g. Salvini has any particular opinions about Brexit.

    Latest German polling for the Euros: CDU/CSU 32% (-3 compared with last time), SocDems 18% (-9), Greens 19% (+8), FDP (pro-business liberals) 7 (+3), Left 6 (-1), AfD 10 (+3).
    Populists do have strong views on the Euro. Could be big issues if/when the next downturn hits hard.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    isam said:
    Such a small error barely worth even mentioning.
    Honestly, if the NS had any honour they would sack the editor. It's disgraceful. The government we're too quick to give in to the PC idiots as well.
    Brokenshire also needs to either apologise to Scruton and reinstate his position, else consider his own. This constant giving in to the mob over slights in language needs to stop - the mob will stop doing it if it doesn’t work.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Scott_P said:
    I wonder how much they paid some marketing / PR people for that totally forgetable logo?
    Maybe every time they see "Change The Independent Group" they change the font size of The Independent Group
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631

    Human rights workers at Amnesty International are braced for scores of redundancies after the management admitted to a hole in its budget of up to £17m to the end of 2020.

    Next week Naidoo is due to unveil a new strategic direction, which he has previously indicated requires treating issues like climate change as core components of the human rights struggle. Sources said it appears he wants to increase the focus on campaigning, rather than traditional research-led human rights investigations.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/27/amnesty-international-staff-braced-for-redundancies

    So bugger those jailed for their political views, more direct action protests on climate change. Isn't the later what GreenPeace is for?

    LOL, no more than they deserve. Massive reform of the charity sector needed, many are now simply a front for lobbyists and activists.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,537
    isam said:

    Scott_P said:
    I wonder how much they paid some marketing / PR people for that totally forgetable logo?
    Maybe every time they see "Change The Independent Group" they change the font size of The Independent Group
    At least they've got us talking about it. I can't remember ever discussing anyone's logo as intensively as we've been doing
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631

    F1: fastest man in the third sector is Raikkonen. He's having quite a good season so far.

    So, do I lay my Ayrton on Leclerc at 4.5 from yesterday? In to 1.85/2.0 now.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    Scott_P said:
    I wonder how much they paid some marketing / PR people for that totally forgetable logo?
    They must have hired the Toon Army.

    Or a zebra.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited April 2019

    isam said:

    Scott_P said:
    I wonder how much they paid some marketing / PR people for that totally forgetable logo?
    Maybe every time they see "Change The Independent Group" they change the font size of The Independent Group
    At least they've got us talking about it. I can't remember ever discussing anyone's logo as intensively as we've been doing
    Yeah but I'm afraid that's not an argument. Out 'there' beyond us anoraks it will mean f-all to voters.

    As they sing on the terraces, 'you're shit and you* know it.'

    An exercise in how not to launch a party, if ever there was.

    The LibDems got their slogan spot on. 'Stop Brexit' does what it says on the tin.

    *CHUCKUPNPTIG, not you Nick
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited April 2019

    Scott_P said:
    I wonder how much they paid some marketing / PR people for that totally forgetable logo?

    God this is horrible
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    FPT:

    viewcode said:



    Whether Jeremy Corbyn is an anti-Semite is one thing. But @JosiasJessop stated that "he'd probably prefer to be dining with...anti-Semites", which - given Corbyn's past preferences - is fair comment.

    [There's a comments policy????]

    I think there is. I can think of a few things that could invite an instant ban.

    Something like, and I use these as an example only just to make myself clear:

    “I like pineapple on pizza.”
    “I don’t care much for Liverpool FC despite being from Liverpool.”
    “I might vote [any non-Labour option] in my constituency of Bootle.”
    “I find cricket an incredibly boring sport.”
    “I don’t understand Sunil’s Star Wars tropes having never watched Star Wars. And when I get on Merseyrail’s 507 class, I don’t get excited. It’s just a train.”

    I don’t think ANY of that, of course.
    You wisely steered clear of expressing opinions on Radiohead......
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. Sandpit, Mercedes' times look sandbaggish. But I still think your bet looks very good. I'd probably (after getting burned a little before) wimp out and hedge. But it's a good bet to have.

    Anyway, I'll check the markets then finish off my pre-qualifying tosh.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,537

    isam said:

    Scott_P said:
    I wonder how much they paid some marketing / PR people for that totally forgetable logo?
    Maybe every time they see "Change The Independent Group" they change the font size of The Independent Group
    At least they've got us talking about it. I can't remember ever discussing anyone's logo as intensively as we've been doing
    Yeah but I'm afraid that's not an argument. Out 'there' beyond us anoraks it will mean f-all to voters.

    As they sing on the terraces, 'you're shit and you* know it.'

    An exercise in how not to launch a party, if ever there was.

    The LibDems got their slogan spot on. 'Stop Brexit' does what it says on the tin.

    *CHUCKUPNPTIG, not you Nick
    Hell, I'm not a ChangeUK supporter - they're somewhere bewtween an irrelevance and a distraction. Just trying to be fair - they won't live or die by their logo.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,483

    Scott_P said:
    I wonder how much they paid some marketing / PR people for that totally forgetable logo?

    God this is horrible
    Someone PAID for that!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Scott_P said:
    I wonder how much they paid some marketing / PR people for that totally forgetable logo?
    Maybe every time they see "Change The Independent Group" they change the font size of The Independent Group
    At least they've got us talking about it. I can't remember ever discussing anyone's logo as intensively as we've been doing
    People on here (inc me) talk about things in excruciating detail that almost nobody in the general public give a second thought to
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited April 2019

    isam said:

    Scott_P said:
    I wonder how much they paid some marketing / PR people for that totally forgetable logo?
    Maybe every time they see "Change The Independent Group" they change the font size of The Independent Group
    At least they've got us talking about it. I can't remember ever discussing anyone's logo as intensively as we've been doing
    Yeah but I'm afraid that's not an argument. Out 'there' beyond us anoraks it will mean f-all to voters.

    As they sing on the terraces, 'you're shit and you* know it.'

    An exercise in how not to launch a party, if ever there was.

    The LibDems got their slogan spot on. 'Stop Brexit' does what it says on the tin.

    *CHUCKUPNPTIG, not you Nick
    Hell, I'm not a ChangeUK supporter - they're somewhere bewtween an irrelevance and a distraction. Just trying to be fair - they won't live or die by their logo.
    Actually I don't agree. Name / logo / slogan / brand are incredibly important for any kind of fresh start up.

    Farage, for all his faults, utterly gets that
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    I like the TIG logo.

    Nice and clean.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,483
    isam said:

    Scott_P said:
    I wonder how much they paid some marketing / PR people for that totally forgetable logo?
    Maybe every time they see "Change The Independent Group" they change the font size of The Independent Group
    Actually, I think changing the independent group could be a winning idea.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    Strength of the wind today, there are going to be some crazy random goals......
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,483
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Scott_P said:
    I wonder how much they paid some marketing / PR people for that totally forgetable logo?
    Maybe every time they see "Change The Independent Group" they change the font size of The Independent Group
    At least they've got us talking about it. I can't remember ever discussing anyone's logo as intensively as we've been doing
    People on here (inc me) talk about things in excruciating detail that almost nobody in the general public give a second thought to
    True; never heard anyone else discussing pineapple on pizza.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    F1: ha. Was contemplating 13 on Bottas each way to get a top three qualifying result, when the market changed to only being top two, which doesn't appeal nearly as much.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    Scott_P said:
    The splinters from all that fence sitting must be killing.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Scott_P said:
    The fence sitting continues, and the labour voters can grumble but vote for them, leave and remain, as before.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,247
    I see Sandpit’s bet was for pole, not the race win.
    I’d be laying now that it’s as short as 1.5 on Betfair. Leclerc ought to get pole, but Baku is unforgiving.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    TOPPING said:

    I like the TIG logo.

    Nice and clean.

    Looks fine to me too.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    If you had sat 1000 people down in front of a logo of 4 horizontal black and white stripes and asked them what they thought it meant ...

    not one single one would have said a political party. Let alone 'change.' Or 'remain.'

    Not one.

    Not one single one.

    Think about that.

    Whoever dreamt this up is a total moron.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,247
    Scott_P said:
    The new party line didn’t hold for long, then.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    edited April 2019
    Nigelb said:

    I see Sandpit’s bet was for pole, not the race win.
    I’d be laying now that it’s as short as 1.5 on Betfair. Leclerc ought to get pole, but Baku is unforgiving.

    My bet is for the race win. I’m thinking to let it run, just so I can say I backed the future world champion on the day of his first win. Yes, it’s an unforgiving place, a cynic might say that this is the weekend when F1 meets a demolition derby. 1.21 on safety car looks massive value.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    rcs1000 said:

    Finally, why would Beto or Harris drop out before their home states?

    Fair point - and presumably even if they do drop out, they'll already be on the ballot, so they may end up winning quite a few delegates anyhow...
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,384

    Scott_P said:
    I wonder how much they paid some marketing / PR people for that totally forgetable logo?

    God this is horrible
    Someone PAID for that!
    I think they should have chosen a swastika. That would get them much-needed publicity.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    Scott_P said:
    Wasn’t there a bunch of Northern Labour MPs last week, writing a letter urging the party not to mention a referendum?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:
    The new party line didn’t hold for long, then.
    Its perfect. It shows those who want to remain that many many mps will not allow anything other than a referendum, so they have to back up those mps and vote labour or the leadership in theory might not do so. While labour leavers can justify voting labour as policy technically means Brexit is intended.

    Everyone gets to push their position without splitting.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    If you had sat 1000 people down in front of a logo of 4 horizontal black and white stripes and asked them what they thought it meant ...

    not one single one would have said a political party. Let alone 'change.' Or 'remain.'

    Not one.

    Not one single one.

    Think about that.

    Whoever dreamt this up is a total moron.

    Are logos meant to mean anything? Ideally I suppose but I cannot say the other party ones say much to me. This one is simple and will be easy to remember. It's not great but it is not awful.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    I like the TIG logo.

    Nice and clean.

    Looks fine to me too.
    There’s an element of Rorschach’s ink blots about this.

    The Brexit party’s logo has been universally praised but when I see it I think of Dad’s Army, which I can’t imagine is the desired association.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,247
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    I see Sandpit’s bet was for pole, not the race win.
    I’d be laying now that it’s as short as 1.5 on Betfair. Leclerc ought to get pole, but Baku is unforgiving.

    My bet is for the race win. I’m thinking to let it run, just so I can say I backed the future world champion on the day of his first win. Yes, it’s an unforgiving place, a cynic might say that this is the weekend when F1 meets a demolition derby. 1.21 on safety car looks massive value.
    Ah. In which case, you’re right.
    Mercedes look rather better in race trim than in quali, and will have something in hand on the engine front. Leclerc still favourite, though. Unless Ferrari are really stupid.

    If it were £1000, I’d lay. Losing £10 wouldn’t spoil my enjoyment of the race...

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,537
    This, however, is quite important. Mysterious though it is to me (I use Facebook but never even glance at an ad), FB ads work:

    https://www.euractiv.com/section/digital/news/farages-brexit-party-spends-big-on-facebook-ads/
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited April 2019

    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    I like the TIG logo.

    Nice and clean.

    Looks fine to me too.
    There’s an element of Rorschach’s ink blots about this.

    The Brexit party’s logo has been universally praised but when I see it I think of Dad’s Army, which I can’t imagine is the desired association.
    Yes funny, when I see Change party logo I think of desolate wastelands, but the Brexit Party’s brings to mind a sunny day in my favourite park
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,167
    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    O’Rourke has gone pretty dark, too - he simply isn’t doing TV at the moment, in favour of ‘meeting the people’. Whether there’s some smart plan underlying this, or it’s just a misguided attempt to replicate his Texas campaign in a national scale, is a open question.

    Don’t know about Kamala (there, I said it for you). She has the base (money and support) and the political skills to be a contender, but she needs to break out of the pack by the summer.

    Yes, O'Rourke versus Kamala. Much better vocab. Cheers.

    The former - 'O'Rourke' - does indeed seem to have gone a bit flat. I saw a quote the other day from someone, said that he's gone from the new Bobby K to being 'the man that says sorry a lot and stands on tables' - which was pretty brutal, I thought.

    Still, marathon not a sprint bla bla and I am hoping that Kamala is just conserving energy at this early stage. So long as she is right there as they are rounding the Cutty Sark. If she is then I think she will come through. I find her and Warren the most impressive of the candidates, and I prefer her because she has IMO a better chance of slaying the beast.

    EDIT: Oddly, Warren does not need the first name thing. She is better suited by Warren than Elizabeth, and Liz does not work at all. Perhaps because she was (and therefore is and will always be) a Harvard Professor.
    Harris is Hillary without the warmth, Warren is John Kerry in a skirt, Trump would love to face either of them
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    edited April 2019
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    I see Sandpit’s bet was for pole, not the race win.
    I’d be laying now that it’s as short as 1.5 on Betfair. Leclerc ought to get pole, but Baku is unforgiving.

    My bet is for the race win. I’m thinking to let it run, just so I can say I backed the future world champion on the day of his first win. Yes, it’s an unforgiving place, a cynic might say that this is the weekend when F1 meets a demolition derby. 1.21 on safety car looks massive value.
    Ah. In which case, you’re right.
    Mercedes look rather better in race trim than in quali, and will have something in hand on the engine front. Leclerc still favourite, though. Unless Ferrari are really stupid.

    If it were £1000, I’d lay. Losing £10 wouldn’t spoil my enjoyment of the race...

    Exactly!
    Lewis 9.4 for pole looking like its worth half a stake, maybe split with Max at 32 which doesn’t represent his Q3 performance. Yes, I’d expect Mercedes to perform better tomorrow, especially in terms of race strategy.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,167
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:
    Wasn’t there a bunch of Northern Labour MPs last week, writing a letter urging the party not to mention a referendum?
    https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1120593284022308866?s=20
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    There has to be a part in Midsomer Murders when Soubers loses her seat. Epic hammy acting

    https://twitter.com/guidofawkes/status/1122081939937218560?s=21
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited April 2019
    A logo is obviously less vital than name, slogan and branding ... all of which CHUKTIG have contrived to get wrong.

    Any start up needs a top logo. And, with respect, I doubt those commenting below have any professional experience in this area.

    https://www.designhill.com/design-blog/us-political-logos-that-can-put-world-best-logo-designs-to-shame/

    4 horizontal black and white bars suggests:

    - A fence. Message: to keep you out. Privilege. Estate.

    - Dull (black and white). It's boring. Inanimate. Lifeless. Turgid. Every other major party has something organic (growing) or moving. This is static and lifeless. Very apt as it happens but the opposite of change.

    - Prison. Okay, horizontal not vertical. But these are still bars.

    This is the worst political launch in world history
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,244
    HYUFD said:

    Harris is Hillary without the warmth, Warren is John Kerry in a skirt, Trump would love to face either of them

    Not engaging unless you call her Kamala.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    HYUFD said:
    Much as it pains me to say it, Corbyn’s right here. Holding on to more seats in the midlands and north of England is way more important than getting massive majorities in London among the hardcore Remain luvvies.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    A logo is obviously less vital than name, slogan and branding ... all of which CHUKTIG have contrived to get wrong.

    Any start up needs a top logo. And, with respect, I doubt those commenting below have any professional experience in this area.

    https://www.designhill.com/design-blog/us-political-logos-that-can-put-world-best-logo-designs-to-shame/

    4 horizontal black and white bars suggests:

    - A fence. Message: to keep you out. Privilege. Estate.

    - Dull (black and white). It's boring. Inanimate. Lifeless. Turgid. Every other major party has something organic (growing) or moving. This is static and lifeless. Very apt as it happens but the opposite of change.

    - Prison. Okay, horizontal not vertical. But these are still bars.

    This is the worst political launch in world history

    I really like it and there aren't many logos I would say that about. Clean distinctive modern and requires no explanation.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    Roger said:

    A logo is obviously less vital than name, slogan and branding ... all of which CHUKTIG have contrived to get wrong.

    Any start up needs a top logo. And, with respect, I doubt those commenting below have any professional experience in this area.

    https://www.designhill.com/design-blog/us-political-logos-that-can-put-world-best-logo-designs-to-shame/

    4 horizontal black and white bars suggests:

    - A fence. Message: to keep you out. Privilege. Estate.

    - Dull (black and white). It's boring. Inanimate. Lifeless. Turgid. Every other major party has something organic (growing) or moving. This is static and lifeless. Very apt as it happens but the opposite of change.

    - Prison. Okay, horizontal not vertical. But these are still bars.

    This is the worst political launch in world history

    I really like it and there aren't many logos I would say that about. Clean distinctive modern and requires no explanation.
    What’s your view of the Brexit Party branding?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,167
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Much as it pains me to say it, Corbyn’s right here. Holding on to more seats in the midlands and north of England is way more important than getting massive majorities in London among the hardcore Remain luvvies.
    Agreed, for now. Cable having come out so strongly against Brexit yesterday unlike Corbyn has put at risk LD seats in Leave areas such as where I live as the Tories can say 'A Vote for the LDs is a Vote to Stop Brexit and undermine democracy' the Tories cannot do that with Labour yet
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    For me the CUK logo looks like the hamburger menu used by many modern mobile apps. Am I supposed to click it to get further settings, like some policies?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    Scott_P said:
    The splinters from all that fence sitting must be killing.
    Any deal they do with May will, by its very nature, not be a bad Tory deal - and so not require any second vote.....

    A cheap thing to offer.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683

    A logo is obviously less vital than name, slogan and branding ... all of which CHUKTIG have contrived to get wrong.

    Any start up needs a top logo. And, with respect, I doubt those commenting below have any professional experience in this area.

    https://www.designhill.com/design-blog/us-political-logos-that-can-put-world-best-logo-designs-to-shame/

    4 horizontal black and white bars suggests:

    - A fence. Message: to keep you out. Privilege. Estate.

    - Dull (black and white). It's boring. Inanimate. Lifeless. Turgid. Every other major party has something organic (growing) or moving. This is static and lifeless. Very apt as it happens but the opposite of change.

    - Prison. Okay, horizontal not vertical. But these are still bars.

    This is the worst political launch in world history

    It reminds me of the flag of Brittany.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    I see Hales has been caught drugged up for the second time. No wonder he is so erratic if he is out his tree half the time.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,244
    TOPPING said:

    I like the TIG logo.

    Nice and clean.

    I like it too. It is cool and cerebral. Reminds me of Mondrian.

    The best logos do not shout. They talk to you subliminally as this one does. It says that the problems we face as a country are best solved by the intellect and by science not by primitive mumbo jumbo. And if the people doing the solving are quite young and have a liking for understated Scandinavian knitwear so much the better.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Also a reminder that Trump out performed polling in states with no audit trail electronic voting and underperformed in states with manual counting.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    Alistair said:

    Electronic voting, good idea yes no?
    ttps://twitter.com/ElectProject/status/1122116677196492800?s=19

    Anyone who works in IT will tell you no, definitely not. Unless they work for a company selling voting machines.

    Paper and pencil, with people counting, works really well in practice.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    Electronic voting, good idea yes no?
    ttps://twitter.com/ElectProject/status/1122116677196492800?s=19

    Anyone who works in IT will tell you no, definitely not. Unless they work for a company selling voting machines.

    Paper and pencil, with people counting, works really well in practice.
    Assuming always you have adequate security over the ballot boxes once voting is complete.....
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Alistair said:

    Also a reminder that Trump out performed polling in states with no audit trail electronic voting and underperformed in states with manual counting.

    Is that true? It's a big bit of evidence if statistically valid.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    I like the TIG logo.

    Nice and clean.

    I like it too. It is cool and cerebral. Reminds me of Mondrian.

    The best logos do not shout. They talk to you subliminally as this one does. It says that the problems we face as a country are best solved by the intellect and by science not by primitive mumbo jumbo. And if the people doing the solving are quite young and have a liking for understated Scandinavian knitwear so much the better.
    LMAO

    For a start the best logos in politics do shout, in the sense that they need to match the brand.

    This, like your message, is meaningless metropolitan elitist middle class management bs.

    Sorry, don't mean to go all Ad hominem on you but your message is a zillion miles away from ordinary voters.

    Farage gets it. You don't.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Much as it pains me to say it, Corbyn’s right here. Holding on to more seats in the midlands and north of England is way more important than getting massive majorities in London among the hardcore Remain luvvies.
    The Remain luvvies as you like to call them make up a large majority of all Labour voters , that includes in seats in the north . If Corbyn doesn’t back a second vote Labour will implode completely .

    Labour Leavers now amount to barely 25% on a good day . Any party ignoring 75% of its voters is going to be in big trouble .
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    Electronic voting, good idea yes no?
    ttps://twitter.com/ElectProject/status/1122116677196492800?s=19

    Anyone who works in IT will tell you no, definitely not. Unless they work for a company selling voting machines.

    Paper and pencil, with people counting, works really well in practice.
    Assuming always you have adequate security over the ballot boxes once voting is complete.....
    Yes, which is why (in the U.K.) they are sealed at the start of the day, taken from the polling station to the count with the police escorting them, and there’s never one person in sole possession of a ballot box until it’s opened in front of representatives of the candidates.

    The whole process around US elections sucks, there’s way too much political interference and only a handful of states have anything like the Electoral Commission to oversee voting.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,135
    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    I like the TIG logo.

    Nice and clean.

    Looks fine to me too.
    There’s an element of Rorschach’s ink blots about this.

    The Brexit party’s logo has been universally praised but when I see it I think of Dad’s Army, which I can’t imagine is the desired association.
    Yes funny, when I see Change party logo I think of desolate wastelands, but the Brexit Party’s brings to mind a sunny day in my favourite park
    I see three milkmen boffing my mum. And blood, so much blood...

    Ahem.

    OK, as you were, nothing to see here... :)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,006
    Lidl bit of numerology.
    Celtic player in no. 5 jersey (Billy McNeill's number) just put Celtic 1 up in the 67th minute.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    nico67 said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Much as it pains me to say it, Corbyn’s right here. Holding on to more seats in the midlands and north of England is way more important than getting massive majorities in London among the hardcore Remain luvvies.
    The Remain luvvies as you like to call them make up a large majority of all Labour voters , that includes in seats in the north . If Corbyn doesn’t back a second vote Labour will implode completely .

    Labour Leavers now amount to barely 25% on a good day . Any party ignoring 75% of its voters is going to be in big trouble .
    Disagree. Outside London and a few university towns, I don’t think Brexit is a salient issue for Labour voters.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    Someone’s going to get unexpectedly knocked out in Q1 here, way too many yellow flags.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Sandpit said:

    nico67 said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Much as it pains me to say it, Corbyn’s right here. Holding on to more seats in the midlands and north of England is way more important than getting massive majorities in London among the hardcore Remain luvvies.
    The Remain luvvies as you like to call them make up a large majority of all Labour voters , that includes in seats in the north . If Corbyn doesn’t back a second vote Labour will implode completely .

    Labour Leavers now amount to barely 25% on a good day . Any party ignoring 75% of its voters is going to be in big trouble .
    Disagree. Outside London and a few university towns, I don’t think Brexit is a salient issue for Labour voters.
    If that’s the case why annoy the large majority of the Labour vote by not backing a second vote .
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,135
    Sandpit said:

    nico67 said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Much as it pains me to say it, Corbyn’s right here. Holding on to more seats in the midlands and north of England is way more important than getting massive majorities in London among the hardcore Remain luvvies.
    The Remain luvvies as you like to call them make up a large majority of all Labour voters , that includes in seats in the north . If Corbyn doesn’t back a second vote Labour will implode completely .

    Labour Leavers now amount to barely 25% on a good day . Any party ignoring 75% of its voters is going to be in big trouble .
    Disagree. Outside London and a few university towns, I don’t think Brexit is a salient issue for Labour voters.
    How many bets have been won and lost over the past ten years, preceded by the phrase "I don't think the EU is a salient issue..."? :(
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,135

    For me the CUK logo looks like the hamburger menu used by many modern mobile apps. Am I supposed to click it to get further settings, like some policies?

    Let me check.

    [clicks repeatedly on logo]

    No.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    nico67 said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Much as it pains me to say it, Corbyn’s right here. Holding on to more seats in the midlands and north of England is way more important than getting massive majorities in London among the hardcore Remain luvvies.
    The Remain luvvies as you like to call them make up a large majority of all Labour voters , that includes in seats in the north . If Corbyn doesn’t back a second vote Labour will implode completely .

    Labour Leavers now amount to barely 25% on a good day . Any party ignoring 75% of its voters is going to be in big trouble .
    I don't envy Corbyn's position here. He can probably keep most of those Labour Leavers, but alienating even a few could wreck his chances of winning the next General Election. He can afford to lose more Labour remainers in electoral terms. But he is giving his enemies in the party a boost by opposing a majority view that is strongly held. So he could get over the line in an election only to find that his tradition in the party gets ousted by another one.

    Fiendishly difficult.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,244

    LMAO

    For a start the best logos in politics do shout, in the sense that they need to match the brand.

    This, like your message, is meaningless metropolitan elitist middle class management bs.

    Sorry, don't mean to go all Ad hominem on you but your message is a zillion miles away from ordinary voters.

    Farage gets it. You don't.

    Farage does get it but that does not mean he should be copied regardless.

    It's horses for courses. Or target markets to be precise. Farage's is the oiks. TIG's is the precious classes.

    They need to be approached differently.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    edited April 2019
    kinabalu said:

    LMAO

    For a start the best logos in politics do shout, in the sense that they need to match the brand.

    This, like your message, is meaningless metropolitan elitist middle class management bs.

    Sorry, don't mean to go all Ad hominem on you but your message is a zillion miles away from ordinary voters.

    Farage gets it. You don't.

    Farage does get it but that does not mean he should be copied regardless.

    It's horses for courses. Or target markets to be precise. Farage's is the oiks. TIG's is the precious classes.

    They need to be approached differently.
    Good point. Any successful strategy will put off a lot of people. I wonder how many middle class people in the south east were irritated by the Tories pursuit of the northern working class in 2017? They certainly voted Labour down here in numbers they haven't done since the fifties.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited April 2019
    viewcode said:

    For me the CUK logo looks like the hamburger menu used by many modern mobile apps. Am I supposed to click it to get further settings, like some policies?

    Let me check.

    [clicks repeatedly on logo]

    No.
    Have you tried reloading the page? What about turning your device off and on again?
  • SirBenjaminSirBenjamin Posts: 238

    nico67 said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Much as it pains me to say it, Corbyn’s right here. Holding on to more seats in the midlands and north of England is way more important than getting massive majorities in London among the hardcore Remain luvvies.
    The Remain luvvies as you like to call them make up a large majority of all Labour voters , that includes in seats in the north . If Corbyn doesn’t back a second vote Labour will implode completely .

    Labour Leavers now amount to barely 25% on a good day . Any party ignoring 75% of its voters is going to be in big trouble .
    I don't envy Corbyn's position here. He can probably keep most of those Labour Leavers, but alienating even a few could wreck his chances of winning the next General Election. He can afford to lose more Labour remainers in electoral terms. But he is giving his enemies in the party a boost by opposing a majority view that is strongly held. So he could get over the line in an election only to find that his tradition in the party gets ousted by another one.

    Fiendishly difficult.

    It's not that it's 'only' 25%. It's that the sort of places those 25% inhabit are more likely to be the marginal, unfashionable Northern/Midlands/small town seats.

    The 75% of Lab Remainers are somewhat concentrated in the ultra-safe Metropolitan/inner urban seats, like Corbyn's own. It's probably more like a 95-5 split there. But that's irrelevant when there are lots of Labour leavers in Don Valley, Dewsbury etc.

    He can afford to alienate a few Lab Remainers far more readily than a few Lab Leavers.
This discussion has been closed.