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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The May 23rd Euro elections – how the pollsters did last time

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  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,384

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think the Tories will lose 1000 to 1200 seats on May 2 and tbh I think they'd take that atm.
    The euros are going to be brutal though. The interest for me is who wins from green, lib, chuk

    In the 2015 locals the Tories won 5,521 seats to 2,278 seats for Labour, so losing 1000 to 1200 seats would still see the Tories win more seats than Labour on May 2nd even if the Euros prove a bloodbath (though of course the Tories were 3rd in the 2014 Euros anyway).


    It would also still be better than the Tories did in the 1995 locals when they lost 2,018 seats overnight
    It wont be as bad as 95 for sure, labour dont have the support Blair did, but ironically the euros will be much worse than 94 with Major vs Beckett
    If Yougov is to be believed (and I expect Opinium's numbers would be similar) 21% of 2017 Conservatives have shifted rightwards, compared to 3% supporting Labour (offset by 4% of Labour voters moving rightwards). So, while Labour will benefit from Conservatives abstaining, they aren't gaining many switchers.
    My recollection is that 1997 wasn't mainly about Tories switching to Labour, but about Tories staying at home.
    That was not the case. There were huge swings directly from Conservative to Labour in the seats that Labour won.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,537

    The Telegraph have an interesting take on the extension. They are reporting that the socialists round the table, Spain, Greece, etc wanted the UK to hold EU elections because Labour would do well and they are part of the socialist grouping in the EU. Whereas no UK political party is part of the EPP the main competition to the socialists. Did Corbyn not attend a big socialist summit in Spain not so long ago.

    Yes, he did. When he told me before the referendum that he'd become a Remainer ("on balance") one reason he gave was the stronger links of socialist parties across much of the EU. While most of the centre-left in the EU is in trouble now, they still have generally good relations with him.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,687
    edited April 2019
    You know you've hit rock bottom when you're accused of a shameful briefing by Damian McBride.

    https://twitter.com/DPMcBride/status/1117176310680440832
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think the Tories will lose 1000 to 1200 seats on May 2 and tbh I think they'd take that atm.
    The euros are going to be brutal though. The interest for me is who wins from green, lib, chuk

    In the 2015 locals the Tories won 5,521 seats to 2,278 seats for Labour, so losing 1000 to 1200 seats would still see the Tories win more seats than Labour on May 2nd even if the Euros prove a bloodbath (though of course the Tories were 3rd in the 2014 Euros anyway).


    It would also still be better than the Tories did in the 1995 locals when they lost 2,018 seats overnight
    It wont be as bad as 95 for sure, labour dont have the support Blair did, but ironically the euros will be much worse than 94 with Major vs Beckett
    If Yougov is to be believed (and I expect Opinium's numbers would be similar) 21% of 2017 Conservatives have shifted rightwards, compared to 3% supporting Labour (offset by 4% of Labour voters moving rightwards). So, while Labour will benefit from Conservatives abstaining, they aren't gaining many switchers.
    My recollection is that 1997 wasn't mainly about Tories switching to Labour, but about Tories staying at home.
    That was not the case. There were huge swings directly from Conservative to Labour in the seats that Labour won.
    Yep. 2001 was the stay home election iirc
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,384
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Roger said:

    Anyone else bored now that Brexit is done?

    'Done' as in abandoned?
    Yepper
    They have one last chance, and that is referendum no. 2. The reverse ferreting when they realise this will be an awesome spectacle.
    If MP's wish to revoke Brexit, let them do so, rather than try to pass the buck.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741

    Foxy said:


    I'm not a teacher, but I've a lot of relations who are. It's always seemed to me that whoever said we're all experts on education because we've all been to school hit the nail on the head. Trouble is, as a pupil, or the parents of pupils we look at it through a very narrow view. I worked in health and heard all sorts of strange opinions about GP's and other health professionals, which were largely the result of one or two experiences, or experiences of one or two professionals, and that really isn't representative.

    Just look at how far we have fallen compared to other countries. Our education system is a joke and yet our teaching profession still try to pretend it is fit for purpose. You don't have to be any kind of expert to see how that is an indictment of both our politicians and the teaching profession.
    Or perhaps our parenting abilities. When children start school wearing nappies, unable to hold a pencil or utensils, or dress themselves, it is a difficult start for child and also teachers.
    That is an extremely recent development as I understand it. It certainly doesn't account for 30 years of plummeting standards.
    Not so recent. Britain's history of broken families and lack of parenting skills is nothing new.

    What has disappeared is the reasonably paid jobs that the poorly educated could undertake.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,133
    eristdoof said:

    viewcode said:

    eristdoof said:

    viewcode said:

    isam said:

    Any Prince Charles fans here?

    Well, yes. But it has to be said this acts oddly in favour of the Charles-is-actually-the-father-of-Harry theory, since the face-swapped version seems the same.
    Sorry? Was there ever a suggestion that Harry wasn't the son of Prince Charles?
    Never. It was never rumoured that the redhaired Prince Harry was the child of anybody else other than the dark-haired Prince Charles. And definitely not because his blonde mother Princess Diana had an affair with the redhaired James Hewitt. And they've taken gene tests so that's alright then.
    But Harry looks like Charles! Of all the questionable paterninty rumours, that one is just laughable.
    It is indeed. Who would possibly think otherwise.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,384

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think the Tories will lose 1000 to 1200 seats on May 2 and tbh I think they'd take that atm.
    The euros are going to be brutal though. The interest for me is who wins from green, lib, chuk

    In the 2015 locals the Tories won 5,521 seats to 2,278 seats for Labour, so losing 1000 to 1200 seats would still see the Tories win more seats than Labour on May 2nd even if the Euros prove a bloodbath (though of course the Tories were 3rd in the 2014 Euros anyway).


    It would also still be better than the Tories did in the 1995 locals when they lost 2,018 seats overnight
    It wont be as bad as 95 for sure, labour dont have the support Blair did, but ironically the euros will be much worse than 94 with Major vs Beckett
    If Yougov is to be believed (and I expect Opinium's numbers would be similar) 21% of 2017 Conservatives have shifted rightwards, compared to 3% supporting Labour (offset by 4% of Labour voters moving rightwards). So, while Labour will benefit from Conservatives abstaining, they aren't gaining many switchers.
    My recollection is that 1997 wasn't mainly about Tories switching to Labour, but about Tories staying at home.
    That was not the case. There were huge swings directly from Conservative to Labour in the seats that Labour won.
    Yep. 2001 was the stay home election iirc
    Turnout was at 71% in 1997, which was a respectable level.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,580
    eristdoof said:

    AndyJS said:


    The teaching profession are arseholes. They've spent the last 40 to 50 years attempting to use their position to create a socialist utopia by trying to brainwash people who are too naive to understand what they're up to. And they're utterly shameless about it, because they think they're RIGHT and KNOW BEST. Shame on them.

    Whoa this is some crazy shit. Any evidence for this accusation? I don't personally recall any Marxist indoctrination at school and haven't yet noticed any at my kids' schools - just a whole lot of hard work for not a whole lot of money. Also, if teachers have been hellbent on creating this socialist utopia all these years, I can only say they have not been very successful.
    One thing that I have never understood about England, is how many normally rational people are so dismissive of schools and teachers. In the US the tiniest state support of the health service is rabidly attacked by moderates as communist, but has mostly state schools, and there is no suggestion of privatising the school system. In Germany teachers are highly respected, and a good education of the next generation is considered essential for the country.

    The result of this mistrust in teachers in England, has led to the erosion of them being professionals in terms of applying their own judgement and experience in their teaching, and teachers having a rediculous workload during term time.

    The mistrust and disdain for teachers come s from the fact they have presided over a massive collapse in standards and made our education system unfit for purpose. One might almost forgive them and say it was the fault of management if they had not spent so much of their time denying it and attacking anyone who pointed out the failings as persecuting the children. Our education system is a failure and teachers bear a significant amount of responsibility for that.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,384
    viewcode said:

    eristdoof said:

    viewcode said:

    eristdoof said:

    viewcode said:

    isam said:

    Any Prince Charles fans here?

    Well, yes. But it has to be said this acts oddly in favour of the Charles-is-actually-the-father-of-Harry theory, since the face-swapped version seems the same.
    Sorry? Was there ever a suggestion that Harry wasn't the son of Prince Charles?
    Never. It was never rumoured that the redhaired Prince Harry was the child of anybody else other than the dark-haired Prince Charles. And definitely not because his blonde mother Princess Diana had an affair with the redhaired James Hewitt. And they've taken gene tests so that's alright then.
    But Harry looks like Charles! Of all the questionable paterninty rumours, that one is just laughable.
    It is indeed. Who would possibly think otherwise.
    I thought Harry was the son of Dodi Fayed.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,580

    Nigelb said:


    If you doubled the education budget, it might almost make sense.
    Otherwise, utter bollocks.

    Am prepared to significantly increase the education budget

    Oh and I would remove university status from the shit ones.

    University attendance should be for the best, not the 50% target.

    I'd also make it fee free for those studying STEM, engineering, history, medicine, and the best degrees of all, law based ones.
    I would agree with most of that except the bit about law.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Because the priority is to cover up the total shit fest that is the complaints department right?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741

    Nigelb said:


    If you doubled the education budget, it might almost make sense.
    Otherwise, utter bollocks.

    Am prepared to significantly increase the education budget

    Oh and I would remove university status from the shit ones.

    University attendance should be for the best, not the 50% target.

    I'd also make it fee free for those studying STEM, engineering, history, medicine, and the best degrees of all, law based ones.
    I would agree with most of that except the bit about law.
    Do you think that Britons are that much more thick than our international competitors, where 40-70% typically go onto degree level education?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,133
    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    eristdoof said:

    viewcode said:

    eristdoof said:

    viewcode said:

    isam said:

    Any Prince Charles fans here?

    Well, yes. But it has to be said this acts oddly in favour of the Charles-is-actually-the-father-of-Harry theory, since the face-swapped version seems the same.
    Sorry? Was there ever a suggestion that Harry wasn't the son of Prince Charles?
    Never. It was never rumoured that the redhaired Prince Harry was the child of anybody else other than the dark-haired Prince Charles. And definitely not because his blonde mother Princess Diana had an affair with the redhaired James Hewitt. And they've taken gene tests so that's alright then.
    But Harry looks like Charles! Of all the questionable paterninty rumours, that one is just laughable.
    It is indeed. Who would possibly think otherwise.
    I thought Harry was the son of Dodi Fayed.
    :)
  • Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    eristdoof said:

    viewcode said:

    eristdoof said:

    viewcode said:

    isam said:

    Any Prince Charles fans here?

    Well, yes. But it has to be said this acts oddly in favour of the Charles-is-actually-the-father-of-Harry theory, since the face-swapped version seems the same.
    Sorry? Was there ever a suggestion that Harry wasn't the son of Prince Charles?
    Never. It was never rumoured that the redhaired Prince Harry was the child of anybody else other than the dark-haired Prince Charles. And definitely not because his blonde mother Princess Diana had an affair with the redhaired James Hewitt. And they've taken gene tests so that's alright then.
    But Harry looks like Charles! Of all the questionable paterninty rumours, that one is just laughable.
    It is indeed. Who would possibly think otherwise.
    I thought Harry was the son of Dodi Fayed.
    Back in 2015 I was at Westminster and there was a chap there who was convinced Prince Harry was the son of the Duke of Edinburgh.

    He had this picture of Prince Philip in his 20s with a beard, which eerily looked like Prince Harry in his 20s with a beard.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    I see no ships.....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741
    viewcode said:

    eristdoof said:

    viewcode said:

    eristdoof said:

    viewcode said:

    isam said:

    Any Prince Charles fans here?

    Well, yes. But it has to be said this acts oddly in favour of the Charles-is-actually-the-father-of-Harry theory, since the face-swapped version seems the same.
    Sorry? Was there ever a suggestion that Harry wasn't the son of Prince Charles?
    Never. It was never rumoured that the redhaired Prince Harry was the child of anybody else other than the dark-haired Prince Charles. And definitely not because his blonde mother Princess Diana had an affair with the redhaired James Hewitt. And they've taken gene tests so that's alright then.
    But Harry looks like Charles! Of all the questionable paterninty rumours, that one is just laughable.
    It is indeed. Who would possibly think otherwise.
    Whatever the genetic truth, Charles has been a reasonable parent. Charles Spencers cant at Diana's funeral has been exposed over time to be just that.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    eristdoof said:

    AndyJS said:


    The teaching profession are arseholes. They've spent the last 40 to 50 years attempting to use their position to create a socialist utopia by trying to brainwash people who are too naive to understand what they're up to. And they're utterly shameless about it, because they think they're RIGHT and KNOW BEST. Shame on them.

    Whoa this is some crazy shit. Any evidence for this accusation? I don't personally recall any Marxist indoctrination at school and haven't yet noticed any at my kids' schools - just a whole lot of hard work for not a whole lot of money. Also, if teachers have been hellbent on creating this socialist utopia all these years, I can only say they have not been very successful.
    One thing that I have never understood about England, is how many normally rational people are so dismissive of schools and teachers. In the US the tiniest state support of the health service is rabidly attacked by moderates as communist, but has mostly state schools, and there is no suggestion of privatising the school system. In Germany teachers are highly respected, and a good education of the next generation is considered essential for the country.

    The result of this mistrust in teachers in England, has led to the erosion of them being professionals in terms of applying their own judgement and experience in their teaching, and teachers having a rediculous workload during term time.

    When I become the country's first directly elected dictator/imperator of the UK I'd abolish the department of education, use the money as non transferable vouchers to parents.

    Fee paying schools are one of the country's finest things, producing so many awesome people .
    Such as David Cameron and Boris Johnson
    One became PM, the other Foreign Secretary.
    And many would say they are the most disastrous occupants of these offices in modern British history.
    What about the PM and Foreign Secretary that lied about Iraqi WMD which resulted in a war that killed 100,000s of Iraqis and many British military casualties and fatalities?
    Supported wholeheartedly by the Conservative Party at the time.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    eristdoof said:

    AndyJS said:


    The teaching profession are arseholes. They've spent the last 40 to 50 years attempting to use their position to create a socialist utopia by trying to brainwash people who are too naive to understand what they're up to. And they're utterly shameless about it, because they think they're RIGHT and KNOW BEST. Shame on them.

    Whoa this is some crazy shit. Any evidence for this accusation? I don't personally recall any Marxist indoctrination at school and haven't yet noticed any at my kids' schools - just a whole lot of hard work for not a whole lot of money. Also, if teachers have been hellbent on creating this socialist utopia all these years, I can only say they have not been very successful.
    One thing that I have never understood about England, is how many normally rational people are so dismissive of schools and teachers. In the US the tiniest state support of the health service is rabidly attacked by moderates as communist, but has mostly state schools, and there is no suggestion of privatising the school system. In Germany teachers are highly respected, and a good education of the next generation is considered essential for the country.

    The result of this mistrust in teachers in England, has led to the erosion of them being professionals in terms of applying their own judgement and experience in their teaching, and teachers having a rediculous workload during term time.

    When I become the country's first directly elected dictator/imperator of the UK I'd abolish the department of education, use the money as non transferable vouchers to parents.

    Fee paying schools are one of the country's finest things, producing so many awesome people as well fantastically well educated.

    Watch this country's education performance soar as education is privatised.
    The state paying to increase the demand when the supply is not matched just ends up in the fees being increased and not solving the problem. This was exactly what hapened when the Labour government introduced nursery school vouchers with out paying for sufficient nursery school carers.

    Secondly, just because the fee paying schools are getting all the advantages now, it does not mean that, when all schools are fee paying, then all schools will have the advantages that the current fee paying schools do. Comparing Dulwich College with a state comp in Peckham and claiming that the only difference is that one is fee paying misses the point.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,627
    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    eristdoof said:

    viewcode said:

    eristdoof said:

    viewcode said:

    isam said:

    Any Prince Charles fans here?

    Well, yes. But it has to be said this acts oddly in favour of the Charles-is-actually-the-father-of-Harry theory, since the face-swapped version seems the same.
    Sorry? Was there ever a suggestion that Harry wasn't the son of Prince Charles?
    Never. It was never rumoured that the redhaired Prince Harry was the child of anybody else other than the dark-haired Prince Charles. And definitely not because his blonde mother Princess Diana had an affair with the redhaired James Hewitt. And they've taken gene tests so that's alright then.
    But Harry looks like Charles! Of all the questionable paterninty rumours, that one is just laughable.
    It is indeed. Who would possibly think otherwise.
    I thought Harry was the son of Dodi Fayed.
    What about the rumour that William is the Boleyn style son of Charles Spencer ?
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    eristdoof said:

    AndyJS said:


    The teaching profession are arseholes. They've spent the last 40 to 50 years attempting to use their position to create a socialist utopia by trying to brainwash people who are too naive to understand what they're up to. And they're utterly shameless about it, because they think they're RIGHT and KNOW BEST. Shame on them.

    Whoa this is some crazy shit. Any evidence for this accusation? I don't personally recall any Marxist indoctrination at school and haven't yet noticed any at my kids' schools - just a whole lot of hard work for not a whole lot of money. Also, if teachers have been hellbent on creating this socialist utopia all these years, I can only say they have not been very successful.
    One thing that I have never understood about England, is how many normally rational people are so dismissive of schools and teachers. In the US the tiniest state support of the health service is rabidly attacked by moderates as communist, but has mostly state schools, and there is no suggestion of privatising the school system. In Germany teachers are highly respected, and a good education of the next generation is considered essential for the country.

    The result of this mistrust in teachers in England, has led to the erosion of them being professionals in terms of applying their own judgement and experience in their teaching, and teachers having a rediculous workload during term time.

    When I become the country's first directly elected dictator/imperator of the UK I'd abolish the department of education, use the money as non transferable vouchers to parents.

    Fee paying schools are one of the country's finest things, producing so many awesome people .
    Such as David Cameron and Boris Johnson
    One became PM, the other Foreign Secretary.
    Anyone who gives a positive response to a question to which the answer is Boris Johnston is clearly in desperate need of a padded cell.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720

    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    eristdoof said:

    viewcode said:

    eristdoof said:

    viewcode said:

    isam said:

    Any Prince Charles fans here?

    Well, yes. But it has to be said this acts oddly in favour of the Charles-is-actually-the-father-of-Harry theory, since the face-swapped version seems the same.
    Sorry? Was there ever a suggestion that Harry wasn't the son of Prince Charles?
    Never. It was never rumoured that the redhaired Prince Harry was the child of anybody else other than the dark-haired Prince Charles. And definitely not because his blonde mother Princess Diana had an affair with the redhaired James Hewitt. And they've taken gene tests so that's alright then.
    But Harry looks like Charles! Of all the questionable paterninty rumours, that one is just laughable.
    It is indeed. Who would possibly think otherwise.
    I thought Harry was the son of Dodi Fayed.
    Back in 2015 I was at Westminster and there was a chap there who was convinced Prince Harry was the son of the Duke of Edinburgh.

    He had this picture of Prince Philip in his 20s with a beard, which eerily looked like Prince Harry in his 20s with a beard.
    Man looks like grandfather shock.


  • Supported wholeheartedly by the Conservative Party at the time.

    Because they thought no PM would ever lie about the reasons for war.

    You are the party of murdering brown people.

    Attlee oversaw the deaths of millions with partition.
  • Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    eristdoof said:

    viewcode said:

    eristdoof said:

    viewcode said:

    isam said:

    Any Prince Charles fans here?

    Well, yes. But it has to be said this acts oddly in favour of the Charles-is-actually-the-father-of-Harry theory, since the face-swapped version seems the same.
    Sorry? Was there ever a suggestion that Harry wasn't the son of Prince Charles?
    Never. It was never rumoured that the redhaired Prince Harry was the child of anybody else other than the dark-haired Prince Charles. And definitely not because his blonde mother Princess Diana had an affair with the redhaired James Hewitt. And they've taken gene tests so that's alright then.
    But Harry looks like Charles! Of all the questionable paterninty rumours, that one is just laughable.
    It is indeed. Who would possibly think otherwise.
    I thought Harry was the son of Dodi Fayed.
    Back in 2015 I was at Westminster and there was a chap there who was convinced Prince Harry was the son of the Duke of Edinburgh.

    He had this picture of Prince Philip in his 20s with a beard, which eerily looked like Prince Harry in his 20s with a beard.
    Man looks like grandfather shock.
    I know, I have this theory, all the protestors around Parliament are mad.

    There's one guy convinced God sent Nigel Farage to deliver Brexit.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,683

    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    eristdoof said:

    viewcode said:

    eristdoof said:

    viewcode said:

    isam said:

    Any Prince Charles fans here?

    Well, yes. But it has to be said this acts oddly in favour of the Charles-is-actually-the-father-of-Harry theory, since the face-swapped version seems the same.
    Sorry? Was there ever a suggestion that Harry wasn't the son of Prince Charles?
    Never. It was never rumoured that the redhaired Prince Harry was the child of anybody else other than the dark-haired Prince Charles. And definitely not because his blonde mother Princess Diana had an affair with the redhaired James Hewitt. And they've taken gene tests so that's alright then.
    But Harry looks like Charles! Of all the questionable paterninty rumours, that one is just laughable.
    It is indeed. Who would possibly think otherwise.
    I thought Harry was the son of Dodi Fayed.
    Back in 2015 I was at Westminster and there was a chap there who was convinced Prince Harry was the son of the Duke of Edinburgh.

    He had this picture of Prince Philip in his 20s with a beard, which eerily looked like Prince Harry in his 20s with a beard.
    My father looks early like his grandfather strangely enough, but as the latter was killed in 1918 twenty years before the birth of the former I guess my mum's in the clear.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    eristdoof said:

    AndyJS said:


    The teaching profession are arseholes. They've spent the last 40 to 50 years attempting to use their position to create a socialist utopia by trying to brainwash people who are too naive to understand what they're up to. And they're utterly shameless about it, because they think they're RIGHT and KNOW BEST. Shame on them.

    Whoa this is some crazy shit. Any evidence for this accusation? I don't personally recall any Marxist indoctrination at school and haven't yet noticed any at my kids' schools - just a whole lot of hard work for not a whole lot of money. Also, if teachers have been hellbent on creating this socialist utopia all these years, I can only say they have not been very successful.
    One thing that I have never understood about England, is how many normally rational people are so dismissive of schools and teachers. In the US the tiniest state support of the health service is rabidly attacked by moderates as communist, but has mostly state schools, and there is no suggestion of privatising the school system. In Germany teachers are highly respected, and a good education of the next generation is considered essential for the country.

    The result of this mistrust in teachers in England, has led to the erosion of them being professionals in terms of applying their own judgement and experience in their teaching, and teachers having a rediculous workload during term time.

    The mistrust and disdain for teachers come s from the fact they have presided over a massive collapse in standards and made our education system unfit for purpose. One might almost forgive them and say it was the fault of management if they had not spent so much of their time denying it and attacking anyone who pointed out the failings as persecuting the children. Our education system is a failure and teachers bear a significant amount of responsibility for that.
    That's funny because all of the past and present teachers I know do not deny there is a problem and point the finger directly at the administration and the management.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    eristdoof said:

    viewcode said:

    eristdoof said:

    viewcode said:

    isam said:

    Any Prince Charles fans here?

    Well, yes. But it has to be said this acts oddly in favour of the Charles-is-actually-the-father-of-Harry theory, since the face-swapped version seems the same.
    Sorry? Was there ever a suggestion that Harry wasn't the son of Prince Charles?
    Never. It was never rumoured that the redhaired Prince Harry was the child of anybody else other than the dark-haired Prince Charles. And definitely not because his blonde mother Princess Diana had an affair with the redhaired James Hewitt. And they've taken gene tests so that's alright then.
    But Harry looks like Charles! Of all the questionable paterninty rumours, that one is just laughable.
    It is indeed. Who would possibly think otherwise.
    I thought Harry was the son of Dodi Fayed.
    Back in 2015 I was at Westminster and there was a chap there who was convinced Prince Harry was the son of the Duke of Edinburgh.

    He had this picture of Prince Philip in his 20s with a beard, which eerily looked like Prince Harry in his 20s with a beard.
    Man looks like grandfather shock.
    I was thinking that! Had me wondering whether I’d got it wrong that DoE was Harry’s Grandfather
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,384
    edited April 2019
    malcolmg said:

    Sean_F said:

    AndyJS said:

    The Tories were doing pretty well in the polls until only a couple of weeks ago. It's almost as if they've talked themselves down in popularity since then with their relentlessly gloomy approach, personified by Hammond.

    As I said, Letwin was the monkey; Cooper the organ-grinder.
    LOL, dream on , both donkeys or useful idiots at best.
    Cooper is totally lacking in charisma, but certainly has good judgement.

    As for Letwin, well...........
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,384

    eristdoof said:

    AndyJS said:


    The teaching profession are arseholes. They've spent the last 40 to 50 years attempting to use their position to create a socialist utopia by trying to brainwash people who are too naive to understand what they're up to. And they're utterly shameless about it, because they think they're RIGHT and KNOW BEST. Shame on them.

    Whoa this is some crazy shit. Any evidence for this accusation? I don't personally recall any Marxist indoctrination at school and haven't yet noticed any at my kids' schools - just a whole lot of hard work for not a whole lot of money. Also, if teachers have been hellbent on creating this socialist utopia all these years, I can only say they have not been very successful.
    One thing that I have never understood about England, is how many normally rational people are so dismissive of schools and teachers. In the US the tiniest state support of the health service is rabidly attacked by moderates as communist, but has mostly state schools, and there is no suggestion of privatising the school system. In Germany teachers are highly respected, and a good education of the next generation is considered essential for the country.

    The result of this mistrust in teachers in England, has led to the erosion of them being professionals in terms of applying their own judgement and experience in their teaching, and teachers having a rediculous workload during term time.

    When I become the country's first directly elected dictator/imperator of the UK I'd abolish the department of education, use the money as non transferable vouchers to parents.

    Fee paying schools are one of the country's finest things, producing so many awesome people .
    Such as David Cameron and Boris Johnson
    One became PM, the other Foreign Secretary.
    And many would say they are the most disastrous occupants of these offices in modern British history.
    What about the PM and Foreign Secretary that lied about Iraqi WMD which resulted in a war that killed 100,000s of Iraqis and many British military casualties and fatalities?
    Supported wholeheartedly by the Conservative Party at the time.
    Which does not of itself, vindicate the judgement of the PM and Foreign Secretary at the time.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,627
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:


    If you doubled the education budget, it might almost make sense.
    Otherwise, utter bollocks.

    Am prepared to significantly increase the education budget

    Oh and I would remove university status from the shit ones.

    University attendance should be for the best, not the 50% target.

    I'd also make it fee free for those studying STEM, engineering, history, medicine, and the best degrees of all, law based ones.
    I would agree with most of that except the bit about law.
    Do you think that Britons are that much more thick than our international competitors, where 40-70% typically go onto degree level education?
    Doesn't that depend on the quality of the degree level education ?

    While the UK might do very well at top level universities the comparisons of most of our newer universities with their foreign equivalents being less favourable.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    eristdoof said:

    AndyJS said:


    The teaching profession are arseholes. They've spent the last 40 to 50 years attempting to use their position to create a socialist utopia by trying to brainwash people who are too naive to understand what they're up to. And they're utterly shameless about it, because they think they're RIGHT and KNOW BEST. Shame on them.

    Whoa this is some crazy shit. Any evidence for this accusation? I don't personally recall any Marxist indoctrination at school and haven't yet noticed any at my kids' schools - just a whole lot of hard work for not a whole lot of money. Also, if teachers have been hellbent on creating this socialist utopia all these years, I can only say they have not been very successful.
    One thing that I have never understood about England, is how many normally rational people are so dismissive of schools and teachers. In the US the tiniest state support of the health service is rabidly attacked by moderates as communist, but has mostly state schools, and there is no suggestion of privatising the school system. In Germany teachers are highly respected, and a good education of the next generation is considered essential for the country.

    The result of this mistrust in teachers in England, has led to the erosion of them being professionals in terms of applying their own judgement and experience in their teaching, and teachers having a rediculous workload during term time.

    I don’t know where you get your ideas about education in the US from. We have plenty of far-right voucher-mongers here and state-funded but private “charter schools” that siphon off the best students while screwing over their teachers with far worse pay and conditions than the regular public school system. The only reason we’re not quite as far along the curve of dismantling public education as the the UK is is pbecause the real fanatics here mostly home-school their kids.
  • viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:
    The "two surviving former 1922 chairmen"? Much as I would like MPs to go thru the Hunger Games (go on: you'd love it), I can't help thinking that's a bit harsh... :)
    A fortnite leadership contest. They all start as outsiders but have to kill each other as the zone of reality shrinks in until one is left.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,384
    rpjs said:

    eristdoof said:

    AndyJS said:


    The teaching profession are arseholes. They've spent the last 40 to 50 years attempting to use their position to create a socialist utopia by trying to brainwash people who are too naive to understand what they're up to. And they're utterly shameless about it, because they think they're RIGHT and KNOW BEST. Shame on them.

    Whoa this is some crazy shit. Any evidence for this accusation? I don't personally recall any Marxist indoctrination at school and haven't yet noticed any at my kids' schools - just a whole lot of hard work for not a whole lot of money. Also, if teachers have been hellbent on creating this socialist utopia all these years, I can only say they have not been very successful.
    One thing that I have never understood about England, is how many normally rational people are so dismissive of schools and teachers. In the US the tiniest state support of the health service is rabidly attacked by moderates as communist, but has mostly state schools, and there is no suggestion of privatising the school system. In Germany teachers are highly respected, and a good education of the next generation is considered essential for the country.

    The result of this mistrust in teachers in England, has led to the erosion of them being professionals in terms of applying their own judgement and experience in their teaching, and teachers having a rediculous workload during term time.

    I don’t know where you get your ideas about education in the US from. We have plenty of far-right voucher-mongers here and state-funded but private “charter schools” that siphon off the best students while screwing over their teachers with far worse pay and conditions than the regular public school system. The only reason we’re not quite as far along the curve of dismantling public education as the the UK is is pbecause the real fanatics here mostly home-school their kids.
    I was under the impression that if anything, private education was more common in the US than it is here.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:


    If you doubled the education budget, it might almost make sense.
    Otherwise, utter bollocks.

    Am prepared to significantly increase the education budget

    Oh and I would remove university status from the shit ones.

    University attendance should be for the best, not the 50% target.

    I'd also make it fee free for those studying STEM, engineering, history, medicine, and the best degrees of all, law based ones.
    I would agree with most of that except the bit about law.
    Do you think that Britons are that much more thick than our international competitors, where 40-70% typically go onto degree level education?
    Doesn't that depend on the quality of the degree level education ?

    While the UK might do very well at top level universities the comparisons of most of our newer universities with their foreign equivalents being less favourable.
    I certainly think that the poor quality of many British universities is an issue, as is finance. The 40-50% target is not unreasonable though for a modern knowledge based economy.

    One of many issues being neglected by the Brexit obsessed Tories.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,289

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:
    The "two surviving former 1922 chairmen"? Much as I would like MPs to go thru the Hunger Games (go on: you'd love it), I can't help thinking that's a bit harsh... :)
    A fortnite leadership contest. They all start as outsiders but have to kill each other as the zone of reality shrinks in until one is left.
    And good luck with the subsequent vote of confidence.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Sean_F said:

    eristdoof said:

    AndyJS said:


    The teaching profession are arseholes. They've spent the last 40 to 50 years attempting to use their position to create a socialist utopia by trying to brainwash people who are too naive to understand what they're up to. And they're utterly shameless about it, because they think they're RIGHT and KNOW BEST. Shame on them.

    Whoa this is some crazy shit. Any evidence for this accusation? I don't personally recall any Marxist indoctrination at school and haven't yet noticed any at my kids' schools - just a whole lot of hard work for not a whole lot of money. Also, if teachers have been hellbent on creating this socialist utopia all these years, I can only say they have not been very successful.
    One thing that I have never understood about England, is how many normally rational people are so dismissive of schools and teachers. In the US the tiniest state support of the health service is rabidly attacked by moderates as communist, but has mostly state schools, and there is no suggestion of privatising the school system. In Germany teachers are highly respected, and a good education of the next generation is considered essential for the country.

    The result of this mistrust in teachers in England, has led to the erosion of them being professionals in terms of applying their own judgement and experience in their teaching, and teachers having a rediculous workload during term time.

    When I become the country's first directly elected dictator/imperator of the UK I'd abolish the department of education, use the money as non transferable vouchers to parents.

    Fee paying schools are one of the country's finest things, producing so many awesome people .
    Such as David Cameron and Boris Johnson
    One became PM, the other Foreign Secretary.
    And many would say they are the most disastrous occupants of these offices in modern British history.
    What about the PM and Foreign Secretary that lied about Iraqi WMD which resulted in a war that killed 100,000s of Iraqis and many British military casualties and fatalities?
    Supported wholeheartedly by the Conservative Party at the time.
    Which does not of itself, vindicate the judgement of the PM and Foreign Secretary at the time.
    Indeed. However long before the "Dodgy Dossier" the Conservatives under Michael Howard, with notable exceptions, were more hawkish than Blair for the Iraq war.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    Floater said:

    Because the priority is to cover up the total shit fest that is the complaints department right?
    It's the only thing handled worse than Brexit.....
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,384
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:


    If you doubled the education budget, it might almost make sense.
    Otherwise, utter bollocks.

    Am prepared to significantly increase the education budget

    Oh and I would remove university status from the shit ones.

    University attendance should be for the best, not the 50% target.

    I'd also make it fee free for those studying STEM, engineering, history, medicine, and the best degrees of all, law based ones.
    I would agree with most of that except the bit about law.
    Do you think that Britons are that much more thick than our international competitors, where 40-70% typically go onto degree level education?
    Doesn't that depend on the quality of the degree level education ?

    While the UK might do very well at top level universities the comparisons of most of our newer universities with their foreign equivalents being less favourable.
    I certainly think that the poor quality of many British universities is an issue, as is finance. The 40-50% target is not unreasonable though for a modern knowledge based economy.

    One of many issues being neglected by the Brexit obsessed Tories.
    I've always seen the drive to get 40-50% into universities here and elsewhere in the West as more about massaging youth unemployment numbers than really fulfilling a need.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Honestly, who would want to be on a complaints team? Internet moderator sounds like the only worse job out there.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,627
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:


    If you doubled the education budget, it might almost make sense.
    Otherwise, utter bollocks.

    Am prepared to significantly increase the education budget

    Oh and I would remove university status from the shit ones.

    University attendance should be for the best, not the 50% target.

    I'd also make it fee free for those studying STEM, engineering, history, medicine, and the best degrees of all, law based ones.
    I would agree with most of that except the bit about law.
    Do you think that Britons are that much more thick than our international competitors, where 40-70% typically go onto degree level education?
    Doesn't that depend on the quality of the degree level education ?

    While the UK might do very well at top level universities the comparisons of most of our newer universities with their foreign equivalents being less favourable.
    I certainly think that the poor quality of many British universities is an issue, as is finance. The 40-50% target is not unreasonable though for a modern knowledge based economy.

    One of many issues being neglected by the Brexit obsessed Tories.
    You're assuming that our politicians meddling again would improve things.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    You know you've hit rock bottom when you're accused of a shameful briefing by Damian McBride.

    https://twitter.com/DPMcBride/status/1117176310680440832

    Only if it is true.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741



    Supported wholeheartedly by the Conservative Party at the time.

    Because they thought no PM would ever lie about the reasons for war.

    You are the party of murdering brown people.

    Attlee oversaw the deaths of millions with partition.
    The Viceroy of India had executive power over partition.

    Incidentally "The massacre that shook the Empire" on the centenary of the Amritsar massacre was well worth taking in tonight on C4. Sobering that some old colonials still see nothing wrong with what happenned.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Tiger Woods at 43 rolling back the years at the US Masters.

    Perhaps JackW should dust off his mashie niblick.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Monarchy. We should bid it farewell with our thanks and much love and turn a new page. This is 2019, its insane to have hereditary authority

    Even in non-monarchies political dynasties crop up. Human nature is a bitch.
  • Foxy said:



    Supported wholeheartedly by the Conservative Party at the time.

    Because they thought no PM would ever lie about the reasons for war.

    You are the party of murdering brown people.

    Attlee oversaw the deaths of millions with partition.
    The Viceroy of India had executive power over partition.

    Incidentally "The massacre that shook the Empire" on the centenary of the Amritsar massacre was well worth taking in tonight on C4. Sobering that some old colonials still see nothing wrong with what happenned.
    Just watched that.

    The League of Empire Loyalists is still about.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,384
    Foxy said:



    Supported wholeheartedly by the Conservative Party at the time.

    Because they thought no PM would ever lie about the reasons for war.

    You are the party of murdering brown people.

    Attlee oversaw the deaths of millions with partition.
    The Viceroy of India had executive power over partition.

    Incidentally "The massacre that shook the Empire" on the centenary of the Amritsar massacre was well worth taking in tonight on C4. Sobering that some old colonials still see nothing wrong with what happenned.
    I'd have thought the last old colonials would have died in the Sixties.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,384

    Foxy said:



    Supported wholeheartedly by the Conservative Party at the time.

    Because they thought no PM would ever lie about the reasons for war.

    You are the party of murdering brown people.

    Attlee oversaw the deaths of millions with partition.
    The Viceroy of India had executive power over partition.

    Incidentally "The massacre that shook the Empire" on the centenary of the Amritsar massacre was well worth taking in tonight on C4. Sobering that some old colonials still see nothing wrong with what happenned.
    Just watched that.

    The League of Empire Loyalists is still about.
    I thought they merged into the NF in 1967.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741
    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:


    If you doubled the education budget, it might almost make sense.
    Otherwise, utter bollocks.

    Am prepared to significantly increase the education budget

    Oh and I would remove university status from the shit ones.

    University attendance should be for the best, not the 50% target.

    I'd also make it fee free for those studying STEM, engineering, history, medicine, and the best degrees of all, law based ones.
    I would agree with most of that except the bit about law.
    Do you think that Britons are that much more thick than our international competitors, where 40-70% typically go onto degree level education?
    Doesn't that depend on the quality of the degree level education ?

    While the UK might do very well at top level universities the comparisons of most of our newer universities with their foreign equivalents being less favourable.
    I certainly think that the poor quality of many British universities is an issue, as is finance. The 40-50% target is not unreasonable though for a modern knowledge based economy.

    One of many issues being neglected by the Brexit obsessed Tories.
    I've always seen the drive to get 40-50% into universities here and elsewhere in the West as more about massaging youth unemployment numbers than really fulfilling a need.
    Are you the same as the people arguing that we have record employment, as do the Canadians, USA, Australians, Scandanavians, South Koreans etc who all have similar rates of Tertiary education?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,384
    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:


    If you doubled the education budget, it might almost make sense.
    Otherwise, utter bollocks.

    Am prepared to significantly increase the education budget

    Oh and I would remove university status from the shit ones.

    University attendance should be for the best, not the 50% target.

    I'd also make it fee free for those studying STEM, engineering, history, medicine, and the best degrees of all, law based ones.
    I would agree with most of that except the bit about law.
    Do you think that Britons are that much more thick than our international competitors, where 40-70% typically go onto degree level education?
    Doesn't that depend on the quality of the degree level education ?

    While the UK might do very well at top level universities the comparisons of most of our newer universities with their foreign equivalents being less favourable.
    I certainly think that the poor quality of many British universities is an issue, as is finance. The 40-50% target is not unreasonable though for a modern knowledge based economy.

    One of many issues being neglected by the Brexit obsessed Tories.
    I've always seen the drive to get 40-50% into universities here and elsewhere in the West as more about massaging youth unemployment numbers than really fulfilling a need.
    Are you the same as the people arguing that we have record employment, as do the Canadians, USA, Australians, Scandanavians, South Koreans etc who all have similar rates of Tertiary education?
    The one does not rule out the other.
  • Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:



    Supported wholeheartedly by the Conservative Party at the time.

    Because they thought no PM would ever lie about the reasons for war.

    You are the party of murdering brown people.

    Attlee oversaw the deaths of millions with partition.
    The Viceroy of India had executive power over partition.

    Incidentally "The massacre that shook the Empire" on the centenary of the Amritsar massacre was well worth taking in tonight on C4. Sobering that some old colonials still see nothing wrong with what happenned.
    I'd have thought the last old colonials would have died in the Sixties.
    Their families are still around.

    Good old Reginald Dyer stopped a nasty riot from starting was their view.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,683
    JackW said:

    Sean_F said:

    eristdoof said:



    One thing that I have never understood about England, is how many normally rational people are so dismissive of schools and teachers. In the US the tiniest state support of the health service is rabidly attacked by moderates as communist, but has mostly state schools, and there is no suggestion of privatising the school system. In Germany teachers are highly respected, and a good education of the next generation is considered essential for the country.

    The result of this mistrust in teachers in England, has led to the erosion of them being professionals in terms of applying their own judgement and experience in their teaching, and teachers having a rediculous workload during term time.

    When I become the country's first directly elected dictator/imperator of the UK I'd abolish the department of education, use the money as non transferable vouchers to parents.

    Fee paying schools are one of the country's finest things, producing so many awesome people .
    Such as David Cameron and Boris Johnson
    One became PM, the other Foreign Secretary.
    And many would say they are the most disastrous occupants of these offices in modern British history.
    What about the PM and Foreign Secretary that lied about Iraqi WMD which resulted in a war that killed 100,000s of Iraqis and many British military casualties and fatalities?
    Supported wholeheartedly by the Conservative Party at the time.
    Which does not of itself, vindicate the judgement of the PM and Foreign Secretary at the time.
    Indeed. However long before the "Dodgy Dossier" the Conservatives under Michael Howard, with notable exceptions, were more hawkish than Blair for the Iraq war.
    IDS surely. (I know it's almost impossible to believe he'd be wrong about anything but discredit where it's due.)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Scott_P said:
    That's an exclusive?
    Scott_P said:
    Seriously, is it 'dog bite man' headline day or something?
    Scott_P said:
    It's almost like the Tories should get their shit together and agree on something so that the recipe for chaos that could lead to a GE does not occur.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think the Tories will lose 1000 to 1200 seats on May 2 and tbh I think they'd take that atm.
    The euros are going to be brutal though. The interest for me is who wins from green, lib, chuk

    In the 2015 locals the Tories won 5,521 seats to 2,278 seats for Labour, so losing 1000 to 1200 seats would still see the Tories win more seats than Labour on May 2nd even if the Euros prove a bloodbath (though of course the Tories were 3rd in the 2014 Euros anyway).


    It would also still be better than the Tories did in the 1995 locals when they lost 2,018 seats overnight
    It wont be as bad as 95 for sure, labour dont have the support Blair did, but ironically the euros will be much worse than 94 with Major vs Beckett
    If Yougov is to be believed (and I expect Opinium's numbers would be similar) 21% of 2017 Conservatives have shifted rightwards, compared to 3% supporting Labour (offset by 4% of Labour voters moving rightwards). So, while Labour will benefit from Conservatives abstaining, they aren't gaining many switchers.
    My recollection is that 1997 wasn't mainly about Tories switching to Labour, but about Tories staying at home.
    1997 was the election where the opposition vote got its act together and voted for the opposition party that was the best challenger in each constituency. This action probably cost the conservatives around 50 seats including some incredible cabinet losses.

    Annecdote: I was at the time in Bristol West, the seat of cabinet minister William Waldergrave. For the previous two elections WW had had a good majority with the Alliance/LDs comfortable second, but the Lab+Lib vote was alway more than the votes for WW. In the last weeks of the election campaign it seemed that in Bristol West Labour was nudging ahead of the LDs. Word spread quickly and on election day the LD vote plummeted and Labour won the seat convincingly. The remarkable thing was that Waldergrave was losing was not even the big news of that election night.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Scott_P said:
    If that is a real leaflet that is somewhat notable, I would have thought if the leader was felt to be a drag not an asset the usual path would be to just not bring them up.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:
    The "two surviving former 1922 chairmen"? Much as I would like MPs to go thru the Hunger Games (go on: you'd love it), I can't help thinking that's a bit harsh... :)
    A fortnite leadership contest. They all start as outsiders but have to kill each other as the zone of reality shrinks in until one is left.
    Brilliant. And it would be a great way to connect with the youth vote, given how popular fortnite is.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741
    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:



    Supported wholeheartedly by the Conservative Party at the time.

    Because they thought no PM would ever lie about the reasons for war.

    You are the party of murdering brown people.

    Attlee oversaw the deaths of millions with partition.
    The Viceroy of India had executive power over partition.

    Incidentally "The massacre that shook the Empire" on the centenary of the Amritsar massacre was well worth taking in tonight on C4. Sobering that some old colonials still see nothing wrong with what happenned.
    I'd have thought the last old colonials would have died in the Sixties.
    I have quite a few elderly patients who were on Imperial service in Civil or Military Service into the 1960's. Mostly family memories though.

    My own grandfather took part in collective punishments of civilians in Mesopotamia in 1918-19. Flogging the men in a village stopped thieving fairly effectively it seems, presumably this still colours opinions of British in the area.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    viewcode said:

    eristdoof said:

    viewcode said:

    eristdoof said:

    viewcode said:

    isam said:

    Any Prince Charles fans here?

    Well, yes. But it has to be said this acts oddly in favour of the Charles-is-actually-the-father-of-Harry theory, since the face-swapped version seems the same.
    Sorry? Was there ever a suggestion that Harry wasn't the son of Prince Charles?
    Never. It was never rumoured that the redhaired Prince Harry was the child of anybody else other than the dark-haired Prince Charles. And definitely not because his blonde mother Princess Diana had an affair with the redhaired James Hewitt. And they've taken gene tests so that's alright then.
    But Harry looks like Charles! Of all the questionable paterninty rumours, that one is just laughable.
    It is indeed. Who would possibly think otherwise.
    Eh!!!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    That's an exclusive?
    Scott_P said:
    Seriously, is it 'dog bite man' headline day or something?
    Scott_P said:
    It's almost like the Tories should get their shit together and agree on something so that the recipe for chaos that could lead to a GE does not occur.
    If only there were a deal on the table from the EU they could vote for.....
  • Scott_P said:
    We didn't contest our parish council. Despite me and 4 others being sitting councillors. And the clerk/RFO begging us to run
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    That's an exclusive?
    Scott_P said:
    Seriously, is it 'dog bite man' headline day or something?
    Scott_P said:
    It's almost like the Tories should get their shit together and agree on something so that the recipe for chaos that could lead to a GE does not occur.
    If only there were a deal on the table from the EU they could vote for.....
    If only indeed. Oh well, shame we don't live in that world.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    So little backing for what he wants that he has to argue we have left and do not know it. That's just sad.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,133

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:
    The "two surviving former 1922 chairmen"? Much as I would like MPs to go thru the Hunger Games (go on: you'd love it), I can't help thinking that's a bit harsh... :)
    A fortnite leadership contest. They all start as outsiders but have to kill each other as the zone of reality shrinks in until one is left.
    I think we should do it old school: Battle Royale
  • kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    If that is a real leaflet that is somewhat notable, I would have thought if the leader was felt to be a drag not an asset the usual path would be to just not bring them up.
    Why would you even put Jezbollah on a leaflet?
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    rpjs said:

    eristdoof said:

    AndyJS said:


    The teaching profession are arseholes. They've spent the last 40 to 50 years attempting to use their position to create a socialist utopia by trying to brainwash people who are too naive to understand what they're up to. And they're utterly shameless about it, because they think they're RIGHT and KNOW BEST. Shame on them.

    Whoa this is some crazy shit. Any evidence for this accusation? I don't personally recall any Marxist indoctrination at school and haven't yet noticed any at my kids' schools - just a whole lot of hard work for not a whole lot of money. Also, if teachers have been hellbent on creating this socialist utopia all these years, I can only say they have not been very successful.
    One thing that I have never understood about England, is how many normally rational people are so dismissive of schools and teachers. In the US the tiniest state support of the health service is rabidly attacked by moderates as communist, but has mostly state schools, and there is no suggestion of privatising the school system. In Germany teachers are highly respected, and a good education of the next generation is considered essential for the country.

    The result of this mistrust in teachers in England, has led to the erosion of them being professionals in terms of applying their own judgement and experience in their teaching, and teachers having a rediculous workload during term time.

    I don’t know where you get your ideas about education in the US from. We have plenty of far-right voucher-mongers here and state-funded but private “charter schools” that siphon off the best students while screwing over their teachers with far worse pay and conditions than the regular public school system. The only reason we’re not quite as far along the curve of dismantling public education as the the UK is is pbecause the real fanatics here mostly home-school their kids.
    OK point taken. But it still sounds like the fully private schools you get in the UK are rare in the US. I agree that the US has much more home schooling than in the UK, and here in Germany it is illegal. Ocassionally there are media reports of a family moving to Switzerland or Austria to home school their chidren, but it is the fact that it is so rare is why it is news worthy.

  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138

    You know you've hit rock bottom when you're accused of a shameful briefing by Damian McBride.

    https://twitter.com/DPMcBride/status/1117176310680440832

    We can put to rest that Begum is a harmless victim.

    She is dangerous and regrets nothing. Let her rot.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    If that is a real leaflet that is somewhat notable, I would have thought if the leader was felt to be a drag not an asset the usual path would be to just not bring them up.
    Why would you even put Jezbollah on a leaflet?
    Well he's still popular with plenty of people, although I don't see why at a parish level you would bother, but mentioning him as something to ignore rather than just, well, ignoring him seems odd.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Scott_P said:
    We didn't contest our parish council. Despite me and 4 others being sitting councillors. And the clerk/RFO begging us to run
    Why then?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,580

    Scott_P said:
    We didn't contest our parish council. Despite me and 4 others being sitting councillors. And the clerk/RFO begging us to run
    I find it very sad that party politics has seeped down to the level of parish councils. If I had any power then one of the things I would do is ban party affiliations from parish councils. It is not something that should be politicised in that way.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    kle4 said:

    So little backing for what he wants that he has to argue we have left and do not know it. That's just sad.
    40, 50 years of waiting and him and his fellow ERG idiots blew at the last moment.

    Defeat from the jaws of victory.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    eristdoof said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think the Tories will lose 1000 to 1200 seats on May 2 and tbh I think they'd take that atm.
    The euros are going to be brutal though. The interest for me is who wins from green, lib, chuk

    In the 2015 locals the Tories won 5,521 seats to 2,278 seats for Labour, so losing 1000 to 1200 seats would still see the Tories win more seats than Labour on May 2nd even if the Euros prove a bloodbath (though of course the Tories were 3rd in the 2014 Euros anyway).


    It would also still be better than the Tories did in the 1995 locals when they lost 2,018 seats overnight
    It wont be as bad as 95 for sure, labour dont have the support Blair did, but ironically the euros will be much worse than 94 with Major vs Beckett
    If Yougov is to be believed (and I expect Opinium's numbers would be similar) 21% of 2017 Conservatives have shifted rightwards, compared to 3% supporting Labour (offset by 4% of Labour voters moving rightwards). So, while Labour will benefit from Conservatives abstaining, they aren't gaining many switchers.
    My recollection is that 1997 wasn't mainly about Tories switching to Labour, but about Tories staying at home.
    1997 was the election where the opposition vote got its act together and voted for the opposition party that was the best challenger in each constituency. This action probably cost the conservatives around 50 seats including some incredible cabinet losses.

    Annecdote: I was at the time in Bristol West, the seat of cabinet minister William Waldergrave. For the previous two elections WW had had a good majority with the Alliance/LDs comfortable second, but the Lab+Lib vote was alway more than the votes for WW. In the last weeks of the election campaign it seemed that in Bristol West Labour was nudging ahead of the LDs. Word spread quickly and on election day the LD vote plummeted and Labour won the seat convincingly. The remarkable thing was that Waldergrave was losing was not even the big news of that election night.

    It's surprising the Tories were still able to win Bristol West in 1992 given the demographic changes that were already taking place at that time.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,537
    Fairly feeble bunch of stories tonight - Corbyn is concerned that Labour hasn't done enough on anti-semitism, a poll of polls says the Tories are in trouble, an member of the Scottish Parliament is excited by a parish council leaflet in Derbyshire and the leading Labour MEP thinks we should endorse a referendum.

    Like Richard T I don't think parish councils should be party political - obviously one can't stop people saying they are from one party or another, but everyone who stands for a parish should be considered on their merits. Ultra-political parishes tend to end up doing silly things - I remember the Tory council in Nuthall parish in my patch attacking all the local churches because they'd "not had the courtesy" to consult the parish council on where to hold an Easter parade. There were members who realised this was a daft battle to get into, but they voted for it out of party loyalty.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I'd like to apologise for my post earlier today about the teaching profession.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,166
    edited April 2019

    Fairly feeble bunch of stories tonight - Corbyn is concerned that Labour hasn't done enough on anti-semitism, a poll of polls says the Tories are in trouble, an member of the Scottish Parliament is excited by a parish council leaflet in Derbyshire and the leading Labour MEP thinks we should endorse a referendum.

    Like Richard T I don't think parish councils should be party political - obviously one can't stop people saying they are from one party or another, but everyone who stands for a parish should be considered on their merits. Ultra-political parishes tend to end up doing silly things - I remember the Tory council in Nuthall parish in my patch attacking all the local churches because they'd "not had the courtesy" to consult the parish council on where to hold an Easter parade. There were members who realised this was a daft battle to get into, but they voted for it out of party loyalty.

    Parish councils tend not to be political anyway (albeit this one was), most are independents, town councils are a different matter as all the main parties use them as springboards for district and county council elections
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,166
    It isn't as Parliament is sovereign and Parliament voted for it
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited April 2019
    eristdoof said:

    rpjs said:

    eristdoof said:

    Whoa this is some crazy shit. Any evidence for this accusation? I don't personally recall any Marxist indoctrination at school and haven't yet noticed any at my kids' schools - just a whole lot of hard work for not a whole lot of money. Also, if teachers have been hellbent on creating this socialist utopia all these years, I can only say they have not been very successful.

    One thing that I have never understood about England, is how many normally rational people are so dismissive of schools and teachers. In the US the tiniest state support of the health service is rabidly attacked by moderates as communist, but has mostly state schools, and there is no suggestion of privatising the school system. In Germany teachers are highly respected, and a good education of the next generation is considered essential for the country.

    The result of this mistrust in teachers in England, has led to the erosion of them being professionals in terms of applying their own judgement and experience in their teaching, and teachers having a rediculous workload during term time.

    I don’t know where you get your ideas about education in the US from. We have plenty of far-right voucher-mongers here and state-funded but private “charter schools” that siphon off the best students while screwing over their teachers with far worse pay and conditions than the regular public school system. The only reason we’re not quite as far along the curve of dismantling public education as the the UK is is pbecause the real fanatics here mostly home-school their kids.
    OK point taken. But it still sounds like the fully private schools you get in the UK are rare in the US. I agree that the US has much more home schooling than in the UK, and here in Germany it is illegal. Ocassionally there are media reports of a family moving to Switzerland or Austria to home school their chidren, but it is the fact that it is so rare is why it is news worthy.

    There are lots of upmarket private schools in areas wealthy enough to support them (we have one nearby, here in Westchester County which is NYC’s Surrey so to speak). There is also a very extensive network of Catholic schools pretty much everywhere and various other denominational schools if there’s a religious community big enough to support it.

    These private and religious schools are subject to state supervision over standards and curriculum and for the most part are well regulated. There is a big controversy with the state of New York having turned a blind eye to violations of curriculum and teaching standards by yeshivas in the ultra-Orthodox Jewish parts of Brooklyn and Rockland County (another NYC suburban county) for many years.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,166
    Foxy said:



    Supported wholeheartedly by the Conservative Party at the time.

    Because they thought no PM would ever lie about the reasons for war.

    You are the party of murdering brown people.

    Attlee oversaw the deaths of millions with partition.
    The Viceroy of India had executive power over partition.

    Incidentally "The massacre that shook the Empire" on the centenary of the Amritsar massacre was well worth taking in tonight on C4. Sobering that some old colonials still see nothing wrong with what happenned.
    It was a dreadful massacre but the presenter did not gloss over the incidents that led up to it, including the burning alive of a British bank official
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited April 2019
    ..
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,166

    Monarchy. We should bid it farewell with our thanks and much love and turn a new page. This is 2019, its insane to have hereditary authority

    No it isn't, constitutional monarchy adds to the colour of the nation and keeps the Head of State out of party politics
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,133
    AndyJS said:

    I'd like to apologise for my post earlier today about the teaching profession.

    I wouldn't worry about it. It was one of the less egregious posts. Admittedly this is PB so, low bar, but neverthless... :)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    HYUFD said:

    Monarchy. We should bid it farewell with our thanks and much love and turn a new page. This is 2019, its insane to have hereditary authority

    No it isn't, constitutional monarchy adds to the colour of the nation and keeps the Head of State out of party politics
    Agreed, and a large majority think the same.
This discussion has been closed.