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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Meanwhile what’s been happening in the local elections

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    Xtrain said:

    GIN1138 said:

    DougSeal said:

    kjohnw said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    kjohnw said:

    Prepare for the final economic decline of a once great nation, about to be turned into a Marxist republic under PM Jeremy Corbyn, Hard left socialist / Marxist / communist , and we are going to be undemocratically subservient to a rule making unelected EU who will dictate our tariffs and foreign policy for us with no say in the matter. We are so screwed. I will never ever vote Tory again or anyone for that matter

    I believe you are a Leaver? In which case you did this. Well done.
    No Michael Gove stabbed the one man who could have negotiated a decent brexit in the back. Theresa May is no leaver never has been , she has by stealth and deception subverted the whole brexit process by fully surrendering to her EU masters. The political establishment has betrayed the voters demand to leave the EU. It was never going to be allowed to happen. The civil service would never allow to leave either.
    Yes. The man who lost the citizens of our capital a net £300,000 by buying unusable water cannon and selling them at a loss would be perfect for negotiating a decent Brexit. If by “decent” you mean ending up in the Single Market, a customs union, the Euro and Schengen while having no say in the running of any of them of course
    Let's hope the UKIP entryism of the Tory party is now at an end. Would love to see Francois et al ultimately f*ck off as well....
    Tonight we may have got our party back
    And you can enjoy it in glorious opposition to a Marxist government for the next 20 years...
    Actually I expect the party to recover somewhat as this will be popular with voters and I simply do not care about the UKIP dominated membership

    I want my party back and rid ourselves of the hard right
    You're deluding yourself if you think this will wash.
    I may be but I doubt it
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    edited April 2019
    GIN1138 said:

    DougSeal said:

    kjohnw said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    kjohnw said:

    Prepare for the final economic decline of a once great nation, about to be turned into a Marxist republic under PM Jeremy Corbyn, Hard left socialist / Marxist / communist , and we are going to be undemocratically subservient to a rule making unelected EU who will dictate our tariffs and foreign policy for us with no say in the matter. We are so screwed. I will never ever vote Tory again or anyone for that matter

    I believe you are a Leaver? In which case you did this. Well done.
    No Michael Gove stabbed the one man who could have negotiated a decent brexit in the back. Theresa May is no leaver never has been , she has by stealth and deception subverted the whole brexit process by fully surrendering to her EU masters. The political establishment has betrayed the voters demand to leave the EU. It was never going to be allowed to happen. The civil service would never allow to leave either.
    Yes. The man who lost the citizens of our capital a net £300,000 by buying unusable water cannon and selling them at a loss would be perfect for negotiating a decent Brexit. If by “decent” you mean ending up in the Single Market, a customs union, the Euro and Schengen while having no say in the running of any of them of course
    Let's hope the UKIP entryism of the Tory party is now at an end. Would love to see Francois et al ultimately f*ck off as well....
    Tonight we may have got our party back
    And you can enjoy it in glorious opposition to a Marxist government for the next 20 years...
    Seems quite a long time. How about 10 years? After 9 years of tory led government that makes sense. 9 years is actually not that bad runin recent history, not everyone can last like Blair and Thatcher.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    We have to find consolation where we can, so here is what I found this evening (apart from a very decent claret, natch): the hugely funny bitching by Jacob Rees-Mogg:

    You do find that leaders who decide to go with the opposition rather than their own party find their own party doesn’t plainly follow.

    I’m not sure this is the way to conciliate people to persuade them if they haven’t moved already to move at this stage.

    I think getting the support of a known Marxist is not likely to instil confidence in Conservatives.


    That's the same Jacob Rees-Mogg who on multiple occasions has defied three-line whips to go through the lobbies with opposition MPs led by 'a known Marxist' against a Conservative government.

    Could it be any funnier?
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    It may not be popular but I am proud of TM today

    I expected her to side with the no dealers but she has instead taken a decisive step to put the Country first and save us from a no deal armageddon. TM has sided with my part of the conservative party and laid a gauntlet at the door of the absurd ERG

    Of course they have been brainless throughout this, not least serving the 48 letters prematurely securing TM in no 10 till December, then she wins a vonc in her government , and finally offers to resign to get brexit on the books

    All the above has given her space to act to achieve a consensus brexit and stand down safe in her legacy

    The change in mood from the ERG high fives yesterday to their gloom and despair tonight is a sight to behold and while some may split from the party they will not be missed as the party re-establishes it's one nation philosophy

    I expect many will be furious but for the first time in months I am content

    Yes, Mr G. My reading - which could well turn out to be hopelessly naive - is at the 11th hour Mrs May put her country first. I have to admit I actually felt quite emotional listening to her statement. My worry is that I’m so desperate for good news I’m no longer thinking straight!
    I hope they can strike a bargain, but I have my doubts whether anything will come of it.

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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Scott_P said:
    May never tried to move to the ERG.

    She made her stand then demanded the ERG move to her. When they refused she has turned and moved to Corbyn.

    The like for like comparison would be if she refuses to budge for Corbyn too and just demands he comes to her.
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    nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    edited April 2019
    According to the DT May ignored the will of her cabinet ! Parading the 14 nutjobs who wanted no deal on its cover . I can stomach the Leavers who always wanted to leave but Jeremy Hunt and Javid were willing to throw the country under a bus for their own ambitions. They both deserve contempt .
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Which will be the first cabinet leaver to resign ?

    The Saj must be considering his options.
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    dotsdots Posts: 615

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1113186925429575680

    Sort of confirms the view expressed by quite a few on here that the DUP have gone very luke warm about Brexit. So long as the integrity of the UK is not impact they don't seem to be that bothered.

    Careful I think that letters fake. Would coalition partners say contracting brexit out to Jeremy Corbyn?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    edited April 2019
    If that is so, then surely everyone single one of those Cabinet Members will be resigning in the morning.
    2 years of awful, awful noise.
    Xtrain said:

    GIN1138 said:

    DougSeal said:

    kjohnw said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    kjohnw said:

    Prepare for the final economic decline of a once great nation, about to be turned into a Marxist republic under PM Jeremy Corbyn, Hard left socialist / Marxist / communist , and we are going to be undemocratically subservient to a rule making unelected EU who will dictate our tariffs and foreign policy for us with no say in the matter. We are so screwed. I will never ever vote Tory again or anyone for that matter

    I believe you are a Leaver? In which case you did this. Well done.
    No Michael Gove stabbed the one man who could have negotiated a decent brexit in the back. Theresa May is no leaver never has been , she has by stealth and deception subverted the whole brexit process by fully surrendering to her EU masters. The political establishment has betrayed the voters demand to leave the EU. It was never going to be allowed to happen. The civil service would never allow to leave either.
    Yes. The man who lost the citizens of our capital a net £300,000 by buying unusable water cannon and selling them at a loss would be perfect for negotiating a decent Brexit. If by “decent” you mean ending up in the Single Market, a customs union, the Euro and Schengen while having no say in the running of any of them of course
    Let's hope the UKIP entryism of the Tory party is now at an end. Would love to see Francois et al ultimately f*ck off as well....
    Tonight we may have got our party back
    And you can enjoy it in glorious opposition to a Marxist government for the next 20 years...
    Actually I expect the party to recover somewhat as this will be popular with voters and I simply do not care about the UKIP dominated membership

    I want my party back and rid ourselves of the hard right
    You're deluding yourself if you think this will wash.
    Parliament will pass something rather than no deal. Would you rather the Tories attempt to shape that something or do nothing?
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,134
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,687
    BBC Live reporting has found room for some classic satire I see:

    Boris Johnson has told the BBC that people want politicians in Westminster “not to focus on themselves, but to focus on the needs of the country”.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,822
    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    DougSeal said:

    kjohnw said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    kjohnw said:

    Prepare for the final economic decline of a once great nation, about to be turned into a Marxist republic under PM Jeremy Corbyn, Hard left socialist / Marxist / communist , and we are going to be undemocratically subservient to a rule making unelected EU who will dictate our tariffs and foreign policy for us with no say in the matter. We are so screwed. I will never ever vote Tory again or anyone for that matter

    I believe you are a Leaver? In which case you did this. Well done.
    No Michael Gove stabbed the one man who could have negotiated a decent brexit in the back. Theresa May is no leaver never has been , she has by stealth and deception subverted the whole brexit process by fully surrendering to her EU masters. The political establishment has betrayed the voters demand to leave the EU. It was never going to be allowed to happen. The civil service would never allow to leave either.
    Yes. The man who lost the citizens of our capital a net £300,000 by buying unusable water cannon and selling them at a loss would be perfect for negotiating a decent Brexit. If by “decent” you mean ending up in the Single Market, a customs union, the Euro and Schengen while having no say in the running of any of them of course
    Let's hope the UKIP entryism of the Tory party is now at an end. Would love to see Francois et al ultimately f*ck off as well....
    Tonight we may have got our party back
    And you can enjoy it in glorious opposition to a Marxist government for the next 20 years...
    Seems quite a long time. How about 10 years? After 9 years of tory led government that makes sense. 9 years is actually not that bad runin recent history, not everyone can last like Blair and Thatcher.

    If you go by the Corn Laws 20 years of Tory Opposition is actually extremely optimistic for them...
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Thinking about it though I'm fine with a permanent customs union. So long as we have a unilateral exit from it.

    It was the lack of an exit from the backstop that was unacceptable.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    @Kle4 We all know the golden rule on resignations... they always happen a few days after the meeting !
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    edited April 2019

    Scott_P said:
    The like for like comparison would be if she refuses to budge for Corbyn too and just demands he comes to her.
    She did, many times. It didn't work. Unlike the ERG, he can bring the votes to see something pass though. (Actually the ERG could too now, but refuse to).

    May's actions are a sign of desperation and weakness. But people attacking her for at least attempting a compromise is just sad, because it is at least more grown up than people sitting in their corners reassuring themselves that they are the most brexity/remainery of them all.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,259
    But, it is Jezza and Seamus's key plan to allow a Hard Exit that Tories own.

    I suspect they will think of a way of still ending up there.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    dots said:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1113186925429575680

    Sort of confirms the view expressed by quite a few on here that the DUP have gone very luke warm about Brexit. So long as the integrity of the UK is not impact they don't seem to be that bothered.

    Careful I think that letters fake. Would coalition partners say contracting brexit out to Jeremy Corbyn?
    You think a post on their website is a fake?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,259
    Chris said:
    Reads more like 'I wanna be leader' list to me.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,687
    Cabinet members positioning themselves for the leadership contest.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Alistair said:

    dots said:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1113186925429575680

    Sort of confirms the view expressed by quite a few on here that the DUP have gone very luke warm about Brexit. So long as the integrity of the UK is not impact they don't seem to be that bothered.

    Careful I think that letters fake. Would coalition partners say contracting brexit out to Jeremy Corbyn?
    You think a post on their website is a fake?
    They don't do jokes !
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited April 2019

    Thinking about it though I'm fine with a permanent customs union. So long as we have a unilateral exit from it.

    It was the lack of an exit from the backstop that was unacceptable.

    I mean, I'd be sort of OK with that too - as long as, by "unilateral exit", you mean a vote in Parliament (rather than just a Tory PM's personal position).
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1113186925429575680

    Sort of confirms the view expressed by quite a few on here that the DUP have gone very luke warm about Brexit. So long as the integrity of the UK is not impact they don't seem to be that bothered.

    Duh. Being suprised by this is like getting suprised that the SNP is on favour of an independent Scotland.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,822
    HYUFD said:
    Boles feeling a complete fool now I take it? :D
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    So assuming the EU grant a long extension, which seems plausible, I guess we go into endless negotiations first with Corbyn, then with various anti-Corbyn factions, and the deadline is December, when MPs can do their next leadership challenge?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798

    We have to find consolation where we can, so here is what I found this evening (apart from a very decent claret, natch): the hugely funny bitching by Jacob Rees-Mogg:

    You do find that leaders who decide to go with the opposition rather than their own party find their own party doesn’t plainly follow.

    I’m not sure this is the way to conciliate people to persuade them if they haven’t moved already to move at this stage.

    I think getting the support of a known Marxist is not likely to instil confidence in Conservatives.


    That's the same Jacob Rees-Mogg who on multiple occasions has defied three-line whips to go through the lobbies with opposition MPs led by 'a known Marxist' against a Conservative government.

    Could it be any funnier?

    Yes. Steve Baker was openly hinting he might vote with Corbyn in a vote of no confidence just days ago.

    Corbyn has been their ally for months. Now working with him is unacceptable. She hasn't even done that yet, and nothing may come of it.

    Seriously though, I do not like Corbyn at all, but people are actually trying to tell me that the PM and LOTO trying to work together on something is unacceptable? That's up there with the lazy argument that oppositions oppose and so of course they always oppose the government, ignoring that sometimes they don't because government's occasionally do things oppositions like.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited April 2019
    Daily Mail frontpage seems neutral, possibly even approving. Interesting.
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    solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    I'm not sure what the ERG are worried about, May and Corbyn will probably meet for a nice chat tomorrow and both come out blaming the other one for not being able to "compromise" a.k.a. swallow everything I'm asking for without much in return.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Nobody resigned yet?

    Were the Brexiteers all mouth and trousers all along?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,259
    Scott_P said:
    Except one gets the impression that the mass of the membership are also ERG.

    Time for a new membership and I don't mean Tommy Robinson.
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    _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    Wow. Just catching up with the news after a fabulous night out in town.

    What ever happened to Mortimer’s Golden Rule?
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,687
    Alistair said:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1113186925429575680

    Sort of confirms the view expressed by quite a few on here that the DUP have gone very luke warm about Brexit. So long as the integrity of the UK is not impact they don't seem to be that bothered.

    Duh. Being suprised by this is like getting suprised that the SNP is on favour of an independent Scotland.
    Not surprised about their commitment to the integrity of the UK, but they do seem to have dropped Brexit pretty easily.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    Scott_P said:
    There I have to disagree with him depending on what he means. Without them, and their supporters, they will lose any election. Their position, as they have pointed out correctly, is not unpopular with the members, or even necessarily the voters.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Big question for me is can we avoid having both a referendum and a GE? If we must have one, and I think we do, I'd rather it be just the one.

    We need both. Consent for the deal and a new government to negotiate part two.
    I'd like at least a break between the two. Ask the EU to let us have 6 months to catch our breath, then a GE in early 2020.
    GE by July this year. We need a new government. The Tories need a stint in opposition.
    Labour's stint in opposition doesn't exactly inspire confidence.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Boles feeling a complete fool now I take it? :D
    He may have been instrumental in making her jump the way she did, it must be alarming to her to see the party crumbling away from the moderate end.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,822
    edited April 2019
    What will be really funny is if Jezza wins with a big majority and is able to go full throttled Brexiteer so in the end it turns out the Tory Remainers have done all of this for nothing anyway.

    :D
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    edited April 2019
    Scott_P said:

    Nobody resigned yet?

    Were the Brexiteers all mouth and trousers all along?

    Remember Chequers. It took several days. In some cases more than a week.

    I don't doubt those thinking about it will find many willing supporters. Question is how many jump and who goes first. If they want no deal, as reported, how can they stay while May 'attempts' to work with Corbyn?

    This page is getting long. Last non Brexit resignation was Tracey Crouch.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_resignations_from_the_second_May_ministry
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,259

    I'm not sure what the ERG are worried about, May and Corbyn will probably meet for a nice chat tomorrow and both come out blaming the other one for not being able to "compromise" a.k.a. swallow everything I'm asking for without much in return.

    Seems that way to me on first hearing the news. But you never know, maybe these two will surprise us all.
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    kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456

    Thinking about it though I'm fine with a permanent customs union. So long as we have a unilateral exit from it.

    It was the lack of an exit from the backstop that was unacceptable.

    What is good about about ‘a’ customs union where we have no reciprocal rights of tariff free access to third countries and a trade policy dictated by the EU that we voted to leave
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Danny565 said:

    Daily Mail frontpage seems neutral, possibly even approving. Interesting.

    Been like that since "Under new management" signs went up...
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    No way the May 22 one is going to work, it's going to have to go past the EU elections.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,079

    No way the May 22 one is going to work, it's going to have to go past the EU elections.
    When that becomes clear the campaigning for the European elections will get underway and that will kick any decisions on Brexit into the long grass.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Nobody resigned yet?

    Were the Brexiteers all mouth and trousers all along?

    Remember Chequers. It took several days. In some cases more than a week.

    I don't doubt those thinking about it will find many willing supporters. Question is how many jump and who goes first. If they want no deal, as reported, how can they stay while May 'attempts' to work with Corbyn?

    This page is getting long. Last non Brexit resignation was Tracey Crouch.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_resignations_from_the_second_May_ministry
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Nobody resigned yet?

    Were the Brexiteers all mouth and trousers all along?

    Remember Chequers. It took several days. In some cases more than a week.

    I don't doubt those thinking about it will find many willing supporters. Question is how many jump and who goes first. If they want no deal, as reported, how can they stay while May 'attempts' to work with Corbyn?

    This page is getting long. Last non Brexit resignation was Tracey Crouch.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_resignations_from_the_second_May_ministry
    I doubt if 14 Cabinet Ministers were opposed to her, as there is no way she would have acted the way she did.

    14 may very well accept No Deal if all else fails.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    edited April 2019
    Scott_P said:
    Note her language. 'How we are all feeling'. She doesn't speak for everyone, and most of the party's MPs voted for something they thought delivered what the people voted for, and she didn't. She went against the majority of her party, and that's ok?
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    dotsdots Posts: 615
    GIN1138 said:

    Is the moment Jezza becomes seen as PM-in-waiting?

    Yes of course.

    Not only PM-in-waiting he's PM in all but name (Theresa's PM in name only)

    He's played an absolute blinder. :D
    Echoes of the Second World War, evil Stalin helping us win becomes good old Uncle Joe
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798

    No way the May 22 one is going to work, it's going to have to go past the EU elections.
    Yes, I thought we'd passed thepoint of return on the elections already unless we no deal. The EU was pretty clear on that I thought.
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    tottenhamWCtottenhamWC Posts: 352
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Note her language. 'How we are all feeling'. She doesn't speak for everyone, and most of the paty's MPs voted for something they though delivered what the people voted for, and she didn't. She went against the majority of her party, and that's ok?
    She is utterly mad. Never realised how much of a loss Ed Balls was :)
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    kjohnw said:

    Thinking about it though I'm fine with a permanent customs union. So long as we have a unilateral exit from it.

    It was the lack of an exit from the backstop that was unacceptable.

    What is good about about ‘a’ customs union where we have no reciprocal rights of tariff free access to third countries and a trade policy dictated by the EU that we voted to leave
    Well, it depends on the alternative, doesn't it?

    - Compared with being a full member of the EU, not much, except that it meets several of the key campaign lines of the Leave campaigns, so Leavers should support it if they give significant weight to 'controlling our borders' and not being part of the political structures and not being subject to the CFP and CAP.

    - Compared with Theresa May's deal, it's obviously worse, for the reason you give.

    - Compared with crashing out in chaos, it's clearly massively superior, for the obvious reason that it doesn't involve wrecking significant chunks of the economy.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,822
    Scott_P said:
    No she's Prime Minister in waiting Jezza to entertain. :D
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:
    No she's Prime Minister in waiting Jezza to entertain. :D
    In any case Letwin is PM for the day.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,315
    Oh how everyone mocked when we told them it was

    *ALL ABOUT IRELAND*

    But people tried to wave it away. It was always about NI. May could never be the PM who destabilised Ireland.
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    Gove's putting himself about the telly studios tonight, eh?

    #chancer
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    We haven't had a Cabinet Member resignation in 6 months. How the top level have not fractured in that time while some openly criticised things I do not know.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    edited April 2019

    Gove's putting himself about the telly studios tonight, eh?

    #chancer

    Whatever else we can say about him, when he decides on something he works for it, and is willing to do so publicly too.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    TOPPING said:

    Oh how everyone mocked when we told them it was

    *ALL ABOUT IRELAND*

    But people tried to wave it away. It was always about NI. May could never be the PM who destabilised Ireland.
    Or lost Scotland
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,315
    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Oh how everyone mocked when we told them it was

    *ALL ABOUT IRELAND*

    But people tried to wave it away. It was always about NI. May could never be the PM who destabilised Ireland.
    Or lost Scotland
    How come it was so obvious to us? You had better stand for the party as a sensible candidate vs what we have now.
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    In case things weren't bad enough, Newsnight have got Barry Gardiner on.
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    kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456
    The erg may as well pull the plug on the government they have nothing to lose . VONC and general election . If corbyn wins the tories will have a new leader who can campaign on real brexit platform
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    Well, that was all very exciting, I think whether one thinks it a good idea or not it'd be nice to think parliament will actually make some progress this week, after the disappointment of the failure of all indicative votes (or pleasure of their failure for the no deal fans).

    A pleasant night to TMay. She may not be serious about her offer, and she may not last to try it seriously, but when there is this much division and you cannot ram something through, seeking compromise is sensible.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    GIN1138 said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    DougSeal said:

    kjohnw said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    kjohnw said:

    Prepare for the final economic decline of a once great nation, about to be turned into a Marxist republic under PM Jeremy Corbyn, Hard left socialist / Marxist / communist , and we are going to be undemocratically subservient to a rule making unelected EU who will dictate our tariffs and foreign policy for us with no say in the matter. We are so screwed. I will never ever vote Tory again or anyone for that matter

    I believe you are a Leaver? In which case you did this. Well done.
    No Michael Gove stabbed the one man who could have negotiated a decent brexit in the back. Theresa May is no leaver never has been , she has by stealth and deception subverted the whole brexit process by fully surrendering to her EU masters. The political establishment has betrayed the voters demand to leave the EU. It was never going to be allowed to happen. The civil service would never allow to leave either.
    Yes. The man who lost the citizens of our capital a net £300,000 by buying unusable water cannon and selling them at a loss would be perfect for negotiating a decent Brexit. If by “decent” you mean ending up in the Single Market, a customs union, the Euro and Schengen while having no say in the running of any of them of course
    Let's hope the UKIP entryism of the Tory party is now at an end. Would love to see Francois et al ultimately f*ck off as well....
    Tonight we may have got our party back
    And you can enjoy it in glorious opposition to a Marxist government for the next 20 years...
    Seems quite a long time. How about 10 years? After 9 years of tory led government that makes sense. 9 years is actually not that bad runin recent history, not everyone can last like Blair and Thatcher.

    If you go by the Corn Laws 20 years of Tory Opposition is actually extremely optimistic for them...
    That is not strictly true, as I said after Peel repealed the Corn Laws in 1846 the Tories won most seats in both the 1847 and 1852 elections under the protectionist Lord Stanley. They did not win an election outright until Disraeli's win in 1874 admittedly but they did form a few short governments in that period even if the Liberals were in power for most of that time, dominated by Palmerston
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    An awful lot of people are talking about the May-Corbyn Compromise as if it were a done deal already - but all that little address from the podium tonight did was to outline a possible plan of action.

    Until said plan yields results, nothing has changed.
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    tottenhamWCtottenhamWC Posts: 352
    kjohnw said:

    The erg may as well pull the plug on the government they have nothing to lose . VONC and general election . If corbyn wins the tories will have a new leader who can campaign on real brexit platform

    If that's the case, we can expel the lot of them.....
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    kjohnw said:

    The erg may as well pull the plug on the government they have nothing to lose . VONC and general election . If corbyn wins the tories will have a new leader who can campaign on real brexit platform

    Can you explain how the ERG call a vonc
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    edited April 2019
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Boles feeling a complete fool now I take it? :D
    Perhaps he will now call himself a 'Theresa May Conservative'
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,079
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Oh how everyone mocked when we told them it was

    *ALL ABOUT IRELAND*

    But people tried to wave it away. It was always about NI. May could never be the PM who destabilised Ireland.
    Or lost Scotland
    How come it was so obvious to us? You had better stand for the party as a sensible candidate vs what we have now.
    The interesting thing is that she knew all of this in 2016, but still chose to test hard Brexit to destruction.
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    kle4 said:

    Well, that was all very exciting, I think whether one thinks it a good idea or not it'd be nice to think parliament will actually make some progress this week, after the disappointment of the failure of all indicative votes (or pleasure of their failure for the no deal fans).

    A pleasant night to TMay. She may not be serious about her offer, and she may not last to try it seriously, but when there is this much division and you cannot ram something through, seeking compromise is sensible.

    That is a really nice comment about TM. I expect many are feeling the same tonight
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,986
    Corbyn needs to press her very firmly at PMQs. Is CU on the table? Confirmatory referendum? GNU?
    And get some proper answers.
    Not just vote for my deal.
    So prepare for 6 questions about Plymouth food bank usage...
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    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Boles feeling a complete fool now I take it? :D
    Perhaps he will now call himself a 'Theresa May Conservative'
    Maybe he will rejoin - I would be pleased if he did
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    dotsdots Posts: 615

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Oh how everyone mocked when we told them it was

    *ALL ABOUT IRELAND*

    But people tried to wave it away. It was always about NI. May could never be the PM who destabilised Ireland.
    Or lost Scotland
    How come it was so obvious to us? You had better stand for the party as a sensible candidate vs what we have now.
    The interesting thing is that she knew all of this in 2016, but still chose to test hard Brexit to destruction.
    Are you happy brexit is now going to happen William? Relieved? Where does your fight go from here?
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    kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456
    The Tory’s will split and never be in government again . The brexit party will become the home of many tories now and will bring disaffected labour leavers with it too. TM has torched her own party tonight to do a deal with a terrorist sympathising Marxist
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,134

    No way the May 22 one is going to work, it's going to have to go past the EU elections.
    Surely the idea is that we have to commit to holding elections if we are still in the EU by election day. They won't mind us not having elections if we have left!

    No doubt this is the reason for the desire to complete all the voting in the Commons this week - so that we can leave before then, even though we have to be ready to hold elections in case the timetable doesn't permit that.
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    dotsdots Posts: 615
    kjohnw said:

    The Tory’s will split and never be in government again . The brexit party will become the home of many tories now and will bring disaffected labour leavers with it too. TM has torched her own party tonight to do a deal with a terrorist sympathising Marxist

    You missed the anti Semite bit.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,315

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Oh how everyone mocked when we told them it was

    *ALL ABOUT IRELAND*

    But people tried to wave it away. It was always about NI. May could never be the PM who destabilised Ireland.
    Or lost Scotland
    How come it was so obvious to us? You had better stand for the party as a sensible candidate vs what we have now.
    The interesting thing is that she knew all of this in 2016, but still chose to test hard Brexit to destruction.
    The WA despite her red lines managed to finesse all issues and perhaps she thought her party was less stark raving mad.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,079
    dots said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Oh how everyone mocked when we told them it was

    *ALL ABOUT IRELAND*

    But people tried to wave it away. It was always about NI. May could never be the PM who destabilised Ireland.
    Or lost Scotland
    How come it was so obvious to us? You had better stand for the party as a sensible candidate vs what we have now.
    The interesting thing is that she knew all of this in 2016, but still chose to test hard Brexit to destruction.
    Are you happy brexit is now going to happen William? Relieved? Where does your fight go from here?
    Brexit going to happen? What makes you think that?
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,986
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Note her language. 'How we are all feeling'. She doesn't speak for everyone, and most of the party's MPs voted for something they thought delivered what the people voted for, and she didn't. She went against the majority of her party, and that's ok?
    They are the People's Will made flesh don't you know. Like some charismatic preacher imbued with the Holy Spirit. Only they can discern the collective Brexit unconscious.
    Idiots.
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    rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038

    No way the May 22 one is going to work, it's going to have to go past the EU elections.
    When that becomes clear the campaigning for the European elections will get underway and that will kick any decisions on Brexit into the long grass.
    I suspect that the 6.1 million people who've signed the Revoke petition may well turn out to vote, realising that it's effectively a referendum on EU membership, even if we don't get a real referendum. So pro-EU parties may do reasonably well, getting >50% of the vote and the UKIP vote share should fall sharply vs. the ~40% they got in 2014.
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    kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456

    kjohnw said:

    The erg may as well pull the plug on the government they have nothing to lose . VONC and general election . If corbyn wins the tories will have a new leader who can campaign on real brexit platform

    Can you explain how the ERG call a vonc
    Hundred plus tories side with opposition
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    _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810

    In case things weren't bad enough, Newsnight have got Barry Gardiner on.

    I’m not usually a fan, but Gardo was pretty good I thought! He used the word betokens, which was particularly pleasing.
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    dotsdots Posts: 615

    dots said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Oh how everyone mocked when we told them it was

    *ALL ABOUT IRELAND*

    But people tried to wave it away. It was always about NI. May could never be the PM who destabilised Ireland.
    Or lost Scotland
    How come it was so obvious to us? You had better stand for the party as a sensible candidate vs what we have now.
    The interesting thing is that she knew all of this in 2016, but still chose to test hard Brexit to destruction.
    Are you happy brexit is now going to happen William? Relieved? Where does your fight go from here?
    Brexit going to happen? What makes you think that?
    Mays deal + CU plus confirmatory ref is still brexit isn’t it?
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    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Boles feeling a complete fool now I take it? :D
    It depends on what happens next.
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    kjohnw said:

    The Tory’s will split and never be in government again . The brexit party will become the home of many tories now and will bring disaffected labour leavers with it too. TM has torched her own party tonight to do a deal with a terrorist sympathising Marxist

    No - TM has put the ERG back in their box and hopefully seen the UKIP infiltrators resign on mass
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,079
    dots said:

    dots said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Oh how everyone mocked when we told them it was

    *ALL ABOUT IRELAND*

    But people tried to wave it away. It was always about NI. May could never be the PM who destabilised Ireland.
    Or lost Scotland
    How come it was so obvious to us? You had better stand for the party as a sensible candidate vs what we have now.
    The interesting thing is that she knew all of this in 2016, but still chose to test hard Brexit to destruction.
    Are you happy brexit is now going to happen William? Relieved? Where does your fight go from here?
    Brexit going to happen? What makes you think that?
    Mays deal + CU plus confirmatory ref is still brexit isn’t it?
    May's deal + CU is a long way from being a done deal, and a confirmatory ref would mean a strong chance we vote Remain.
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    tottenhamWCtottenhamWC Posts: 352
    kjohnw said:

    kjohnw said:

    The erg may as well pull the plug on the government they have nothing to lose . VONC and general election . If corbyn wins the tories will have a new leader who can campaign on real brexit platform

    Can you explain how the ERG call a vonc
    Hundred plus tories side with opposition
    You wish.... never going to happen.
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    _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    TOPPING said:

    Oh how everyone mocked when we told them it was

    *ALL ABOUT IRELAND*

    But people tried to wave it away. It was always about NI. May could never be the PM who destabilised Ireland.
    My sense is that May has more than a shred of decency and has finally realised that her country is more important than what’s left of the Tory party.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    kjohnw said:

    The Tory’s will split and never be in government again . The brexit party will become the home of many tories now and will bring disaffected labour leavers with it too. TM has torched her own party tonight to do a deal with a terrorist sympathising Marxist

    https://twitter.com/flying_rodent/status/1112979936602742784

    All the ERG had to do was walk through the lobby...

    Fuckwits.
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    _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Boles feeling a complete fool now I take it? :D
    Perhaps he will now call himself a 'Theresa May Conservative'
    Maybe he will rejoin - I would be pleased if he did
    I doubt it, as once May goes the hard Brexiteers will take over the party now, however he has become more positive on May
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Oh how everyone mocked when we told them it was

    *ALL ABOUT IRELAND*

    But people tried to wave it away. It was always about NI. May could never be the PM who destabilised Ireland.
    Or lost Scotland
    How come it was so obvious to us? You had better stand for the party as a sensible candidate vs what we have now.
    Well I am running for town council, sadly little we can do about Brexit there though
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