Seeing Conservative Party membership cards being cut up on Twitter. The Tories as we have known them are over. I wonder what comes next?
Boris I suspect
Nope, May's just ensured it will be Corbyn.
How did she do that? The party was about to split over no deal and usher in a GE and Corbyn anyway
I'm not saying it would be easy, but the party could in theory survive a no deal split; every other option severs irreparably too large a chunk of the voters. Especially rebuffing them and preferring scheming with Corbyn instead, the optics are truly awful.
Have people really forgotten that May has done this exact same "talks with opposition leader(s)" PR stunt twice already this year, and both times she just didn't engage with any of the suggestions those leaders made in those talks, and then after a few days went back to saying "my deal is the only way"? Why would it be any different this time?
Time has passed, more votes have been lost, May is a victim of the clock ticking down as much as anyone.
Indeed. If May was prepared to countenance No Deal we'd have left last week.
Yet SO and others on here have been saying all day that is what she'd do. They were wrong. She has made many mistakes but at the end of the day the deal she got was as good as Brexit gets for those who support it. More fool them for siding with Labour to vote it down. The ERG are the party traitors.
I have said from the beginning that no PM can afford to take us to no deal. Despite her legacy already being close to rock bottom, May won't want to go down in history alongside Lord North.
Indeed, as losing Scotland is a likely legacy of No Deal that would be equivalent to Lord North's losing America
The phraseology of "losing" Scotland is quite revealing, as if it were a colonial possession.
You can choose to interpret it that way but it is not a given, so it is not revealing in the slightest.
She's waved the white flag for Corbyn to help out..
It all seems quite civilised - and it'll be hard for either leader to denounce the other as virulently as in the past if it all works out. I note that the Chief Whip is reported as saying that Corbyn's price is likely to be a referendum, and if that happens I think most Labour people will accept a deal subject to that.
May will ignore Corbyn and go over his head to Labour backbenchers then.
The facts will back her up, only 10 Labour MPs opposed a Customs Union but 24 Labour MPs voted against a second referendum. 37 Tory MPs voted for a Customs Union but only 15 Tory MPs voted for EUref2.
Deltapoll also has Tory voters backing her Deal plus CU 42% to 27% but Tory voters opposing EUref2 61% to 29%
Labour party discipline has been in stark contrast to Tory over the last few weeks. Very few rebels, so why is that going to change now? I am not convinced that you have very good insight into Labour MPs thinking!
Why? 24 Labour MPs rebelled to vote against EUref2 and given Labour whipped in favour of a Customs Union plus Deal amendment on Monday which all but 10 Labour MPs voted for the idea Corbyn could whip against a Customs Union plus Deal amendment and not see most Labour backbenchers tell him to sod off is I think absurd
They may well just obey the whip, as they did for MV2.5 last Friday.
Look, Foxy I know party politics comes before all else for you and having trashed hard Brexit for months as soon as May offers a compromise you have to trash that too but most Labour MPs are not braindead, even if it sometimes seems so, after all but 10 of them voted for a Customs Union or abstained when it was proposed by Tory Ken Clarke, the idea that they are all going to suddenly vote against it because Corbyn says so is absurd
It depends what legislatiin the CU is attached to. MV may trump it.
I am an LD leaning Green btw, and have voted Tory as recently as 2010
What I want to know is how does a ‘customs union’ even happen? Even if it gets written into the PD it’s not legally binding is it? So it’s still a blind brexit, at the whim of the next Tory leader regardless. Am I wrong?
Labour will be forming the government within weeks or months so they'll be negotiating the second part of Brexit.
There’s no guarantee of that though.
They'll be the largest party.
Odds of 8.5 are available on JC as next PM. It appears that not everyone agrees with this analysis.
Seeing Conservative Party membership cards being cut up on Twitter. The Tories as we have known them are over. I wonder what comes next?
Boris I suspect
Nope, May's just ensured it will be Corbyn.
How did she do that? The party was about to split over no deal and usher in a GE and Corbyn anyway
I'm not saying it would be easy, but the party could in theory survive a no deal split; every other option severs irreparably too large a chunk of the voters. Especially rebuffing them and preferring scheming with Corbyn instead, the optics are truly awful.
Not everyone is so sanguine about no deal. If it is truly a very bad outcome, and many think it is, then the price of avoiding it may be the Tories losing power.
Also that's not what has happened. May, terrible though she hsa been, has worked damn hard to pass something without working with Corbyn. The people most angry now stopped it from working. Heck, some of them have threatened to back Corbyn in a vote of no confidence in the government.
Assuming May is being sincere, she is finally being more statesmanlike and grown up. That Tories are angry she is (at least in appearence) trying to be less partisan, is very telling.
She's waved the white flag for Corbyn to help out..
It all seems quite civilised - and it'll be hard for either leader to denounce the other as virulently as in the past if it all works out. I note that the Chief Whip is reported as saying that Corbyn's price is likely to be a referendum, and if that happens I think most Labour people will accept a deal subject to that.
May will ignore Corbyn and go over his head to Labour backbenchers then.
The facts will back her up, only 10 Labour MPs opposed a Customs Union but 24 Labour MPs voted against a second referendum. 37 Tory MPs voted for a Customs Union but only 15 Tory MPs voted for EUref2.
Deltapoll also has Tory voters backing her Deal plus CU 42% to 27% but Tory voters opposing EUref2 61% to 29%
Labour party discipline has been in stark contrast to Tory over the last few weeks. Very few rebels, so why is that going to change now? I am not convinced that you have very good insight into Labour MPs thinking!
Why? 24 Labour MPs rebelled to vote against EUref2 and given Labour whipped in favour of a Customs Union plus Deal amendment on Monday which all but 10 Labour MPs voted for the idea Corbyn could whip against a Customs Union plus Deal amendment and not see most Labour backbenchers tell him to sod off is I think absurd
They may well just obey the whip, as they did for MV2.5 last Friday.
Look, Foxy I know party politics comes before all else for you and having trashed hard Brexit for months as soon as May offers a compromise you have to trash that too but most Labour MPs are not braindead, even if it sometimes seems so, after all but 10 of them voted for a Customs Union or abstained when it was proposed by Tory Ken Clarke, the idea that they are all going to suddenly vote against it because Corbyn says so is absurd
It depends what legislatiin the CU is attached to. MV may trump it.
I am an LD leaning Green btw, and have voted Tory as recently as 2010
The WA is unamendable, Corbyn had better realise even if he does become PM it will still be exactly the same WA, otherwise it will be Corbyn leading us to No Deal not May if he does not back it. If he gets a CU in the PD I fail to see how he can oppose it and most Labour backbenchers would vote for it with the bonus of splitting the Tories too given most Tory MPs would vote against it
What I want to know is how does a ‘customs union’ even happen? Even if it gets written into the PD it’s not legally binding is it? So it’s still a blind brexit, at the whim of the next Tory leader regardless. Am I wrong?
Labour will be forming the government within weeks or months so they'll be negotiating the second part of Brexit.
There’s no guarantee of that though.
They'll be the largest party.
Odds of 8.5 are available on JC as next PM. It appears that not everyone agrees with this analysis.
Seeing Conservative Party membership cards being cut up on Twitter. The Tories as we have known them are over. I wonder what comes next?
Boris I suspect
Nope, May's just ensured it will be Corbyn.
How did she do that? The party was about to split over no deal and usher in a GE and Corbyn anyway
I'm not saying it would be easy, but the party could in theory survive a no deal split; every other option severs irreparably too large a chunk of the voters. Especially rebuffing them and preferring scheming with Corbyn instead, the optics are truly awful.
Not everyone is so sanguine about no deal. If it is truly a very bad outcome, and many think it is, then the price of avoiding it may be the Tories losing power.
Then you aren't disputing my point that in attempting to avoid no deal she is sacrificing the party...
Have people really forgotten that May has done this exact same "talks with opposition leader(s)" PR stunt twice already this year, and both times she just didn't engage with any of the suggestions those leaders made in those talks, and then after a few days went back to saying "my deal is the only way"? Why would it be any different this time?
Time has passed, more votes have been lost, May is a victim of the clock ticking down as much as anyone.
Indeed. If May was prepared to countenance No Deal we'd have left last week.
Yet SO and others on here have been saying all day that is what she'd do. They were wrong. She has made many mistakes but at the end of the day the deal she got was as good as Brexit gets for those who support it. More fool them for siding with Labour to vote it down. The ERG are the party traitors.
I have said from the beginning that no PM can afford to take us to no deal. Despite her legacy already being close to rock bottom, May won't want to go down in history alongside Lord North.
Indeed, as losing Scotland is a likely legacy of No Deal that would be equivalent to Lord North's losing America
The phraseology of "losing" Scotland is quite revealing, as if it were a colonial possession.
Scotland, unlike the American colonies, does have representation and taxation at both Westminster and Holyrood but it would still be lost from the Union in all likelihood with No Deal
Is it quite astute of May to get Corbyn to share some of the blame? A symbiotic relationship between Tories and Labour is needed to keep both sides supporters angry enough with the other party to not vote for anyone else.
At the time of the referendum there was one UKIP voter for every one who voted Labour and FWIW UKIP were polling around 18-19%.. how will those voters feel at a cross party Brexit ft two parties who want to Remain?
This is how I read it. With No Deal now nailed on, and realising that the fallout will f*ck the Tories for a generation, she's gone to Corbyn and said 'you need some of this blood on your hands too'.
Have people really forgotten that May has done this exact same "talks with opposition leader(s)" PR stunt twice already this year, and both times she just didn't engage with any of the suggestions those leaders made in those talks, and then after a few days went back to saying "my deal is the only way"? Why would it be any different this time?
Time has passed, more votes have been lost, May is a victim of the clock ticking down as much as anyone.
Indeed. If May was prepared to countenance No Deal we'd have left last week.
Yet SO and others on here have been saying all day that is what she'd do. They were wrong. She has made many mistakes but at the end of the day the deal she got was as good as Brexit gets for those who support it. More fool them for siding with Labour to vote it down. The ERG are the party traitors.
I have said from the beginning that no PM can afford to take us to no deal. Despite her legacy already being close to rock bottom, May won't want to go down in history alongside Lord North.
Indeed, as losing Scotland is a likely legacy of No Deal that would be equivalent to Lord North's losing America
ITYM "losing Scotland and Northern Ireland".
Less soon as NI has a DUP First Minister and Scotland an SNP First Minister but in any case Ireland was already lost a century ago, it would just be reuniting the Northern bits with the Republic
Is it quite astute of May to get Corbyn to share some of the blame? A symbiotic relationship between Tories and Labour is needed to keep both sides supporters angry enough with the other party to not vote for anyone else.
At the time of the referendum there was one UKIP voter for every one who voted Labour and FWIW UKIP were polling around 18-19%.. how will those voters feel at a cross party Brexit ft two parties who want to Remain?
This is how I read it. With No Deal now nailed on, and realising that the fallout will f*ck the Tories for a generation, she's gone to Corbyn and said 'you need some of this blood on your hands too'.
If No Deal was nailed on May would have said this evening we are leaving next Friday with No Deal the Commons having rejected my Deal and offered no alternative.
Instead we are now more likely to end up with Deal plus CU after more indicative votes and then further extension to ratify and a transition period whoever ends up PM
*Disclaimer: I've never voted Tory in my life, but I could at least respect people who genuinely wanted to do their best for this country, even if I disagreed with them on policy.
These c*nts had 3 chances to get the deal done, they spurned every single one. Now we're fucked.
Private Francois?
you might think that, I couldn't possibly comment.
All of them and they've fucked our party for 10-15 years in the process. We're done as a political force. Not only are we about to get a zombie UK brexit, we're also going to get Corbyn as PM.
I'm genuinely thinking of selling my flat before it gets expropriated by the communist left.
What make you think Corbyn has the slightest interest in your flat.
Unless its never lived in in which case give us the keys now.
These c*nts had 3 chances to get the deal done, they spurned every single one. Now we're fucked.
Private Francois?
you might think that, I couldn't possibly comment.
All of them and they've fucked our party for 10-15 years in the process. We're done as a political force. Not only are we about to get a zombie UK brexit, we're also going to get Corbyn as PM.
I'm genuinely thinking of selling my flat before it gets expropriated by the communist left.
What make you think Corbyn has the slightest interest in your flat.
Unless its never lived in in which case give us the keys now.
It's got two empty bedrooms. Commissar Corbyn will want to put random unemployed people in there.
After May finally goes, they will presumably look to take the party over as the Corbynites did with Labour, and keep fighting.
Hence why an Early election need be Labour's key demand. It is the only way to save the country from the ERG.
Nah, it's far too late for that. We're going to get the hard right and the hard left - it's just a matter of which follows which, and whether either will get a decisive majority for their madness at future elections.
Have people really forgotten that May has done this exact same "talks with opposition leader(s)" PR stunt twice already this year, and both times she just didn't engage with any of the suggestions those leaders made in those talks, and then after a few days went back to saying "my deal is the only way"? Why would it be any different this time?
Time has passed, more votes have been lost, May is a victim of the clock ticking down as much as anyone.
Indeed. If May was prepared to countenance No Deal we'd have left last week.
Yet SO and others on here have been saying all day that is what she'd do. They were wrong. She has made many mistakes but at the end of the day the deal she got was as good as Brexit gets for those who support it. More fool them for siding with Labour to vote it down. The ERG are the party traitors.
I have said from the beginning that no PM can afford to take us to no deal. Despite her legacy already being close to rock bottom, May won't want to go down in history alongside Lord North.
Indeed, as losing Scotland is a likely legacy of No Deal that would be equivalent to Lord North's losing America
The phraseology of "losing" Scotland is quite revealing, as if it were a colonial possession.
Scotland, unlike the American colonies, does have representation and taxation at both Westminster and Holyrood but it would still be lost from the Union in all likelihood with No Deal
I bet someone has talked of the EU losing Britain too.
I'm registered to vote in Twickenham but am spending most of my time in West Dorset, a second home. Are there any ramifications if I register to vote in West Dorset with the intention of voting here in any GE?
*Disclaimer: I've never voted Tory in my life, but I could at least respect people who genuinely wanted to do their best for this country, even if I disagreed with them on policy.
We're still around.
We're like the Jedi at the end of Revenge of the Sith though.
Is it quite astute of May to get Corbyn to share some of the blame? A symbiotic relationship between Tories and Labour is needed to keep both sides supporters angry enough with the other party to not vote for anyone else.
At the time of the referendum there was one UKIP voter for every one who voted Labour and FWIW UKIP were polling around 18-19%.. how will those voters feel at a cross party Brexit ft two parties who want to Remain?
This is how I read it. With No Deal now nailed on, and realising that the fallout will f*ck the Tories for a generation, she's gone to Corbyn and said 'you need some of this blood on your hands too'.
If No Deal was nailed on May would have said this evening we are leaving next Friday with No Deal the Commons having rejected my Deal and offered no alternative.
Instead we are now more likely to end up with Deal plus CU after more indicative votes and then further extension to ratify and a transition period whoever ends up PM
But that's the one thing she *couldn't* say. The HoC made sure she couldn't choose announce No Deal. She just needs to be seen to be floundering around trying increasingly desperate attempts to try to *prevent* No Deal even though it drifts ever closer...
It's quite incredible how the ERG and their outliers are acting.
'We want X' 'There's no majority for X, something else will be passed. How about Y?' 'We want X' 'I get it. But if you don't vote for Y you may get Z, which is even worse' 'We want X' 'Well it is too late now, we're getting Z' 'How dare you not give us X?'
They've hung themselves out to dry and are now complaining they've been hung out to dry.
These c*nts had 3 chances to get the deal done, they spurned every single one. Now we're fucked.
Private Francois?
you might think that, I couldn't possibly comment.
All of them and they've fucked our party for 10-15 years in the process. We're done as a political force. Not only are we about to get a zombie UK brexit, we're also going to get Corbyn as PM.
I'm genuinely thinking of selling my flat before it gets expropriated by the communist left.
What make you think Corbyn has the slightest interest in your flat.
Unless its never lived in in which case give us the keys now.
It's got two empty bedrooms. Commissar Corbyn will want to put random unemployed people in there.
Bedroom Tax!!
But seriously do you really believe what your typing
Have people really forgotten that May has done this exact same "talks with opposition leader(s)" PR stunt twice already this year, and both times she just didn't engage with any of the suggestions those leaders made in those talks, and then after a few days went back to saying "my deal is the only way"? Why would it be any different this time?
Time has passed, more votes have been lost, May is a victim of the clock ticking down as much as anyone.
Indeed. If May was prepared to countenance No Deal we'd have left last week.
Yet SO and others on here have been saying all day that is what she'd do. They were wrong. She has made many mistakes but at the end of the day the deal she got was as good as Brexit gets for those who support it. More fool them for siding with Labour to vote it down. The ERG are the party traitors.
I have said from the beginning that no PM can afford to take us to no deal. Despite her legacy already being close to rock bottom, May won't want to go down in history alongside Lord North.
Indeed, as losing Scotland is a likely legacy of No Deal that would be equivalent to Lord North's losing America
The phraseology of "losing" Scotland is quite revealing, as if it were a colonial possession.
Scotland, unlike the American colonies, does have representation and taxation at both Westminster and Holyrood but it would still be lost from the Union in all likelihood with No Deal
I bet someone has talked of the EU losing Britain too.
True but Juncker does not see himself as Lord North, he is probably not sober enough to think about it too much anyway
Well I'm not in favour of legislation being rushed through, but I am happy at the thought the Commons will attempt to sort it out with votes this week. There is no need to wait.
Is it quite astute of May to get Corbyn to share some of the blame? A symbiotic relationship between Tories and Labour is needed to keep both sides supporters angry enough with the other party to not vote for anyone else.
At the time of the referendum there was one UKIP voter for every one who voted Labour and FWIW UKIP were polling around 18-19%.. how will those voters feel at a cross party Brexit ft two parties who want to Remain?
This is how I read it. With No Deal now nailed on, and realising that the fallout will f*ck the Tories for a generation, she's gone to Corbyn and said 'you need some of this blood on your hands too'.
Has the PM really received word that the EuCo would refuse any extension, and accordingly offered the LOTO an olive branch of talks, in order that all three share any no-deal flak?
That would be a gross misuse of intel, a horrible inversion of the party/country hierarchy of interests, and frankly the most monumental darkside. So yes, expect that to be the case.
These c*nts had 3 chances to get the deal done, they spurned every single one. Now we're fucked.
Private Francois?
you might think that, I couldn't possibly comment.
All of them and they've fucked our party for 10-15 years in the process. We're done as a political force. Not only are we about to get a zombie UK brexit, we're also going to get Corbyn as PM.
I'm genuinely thinking of selling my flat before it gets expropriated by the communist left.
What make you think Corbyn has the slightest interest in your flat.
Unless its never lived in in which case give us the keys now.
It's got two empty bedrooms. Commissar Corbyn will want to put random unemployed people in there.
It'll be like in Doctor Zhivago, where the rich family had most of their house taken over after the Revolution and ended up all living in one room.
We only have a one bedroom flat, so I'm reasonably confident we won't have to put up more than one smallish family of asylum seekers in our lounge.
These c*nts had 3 chances to get the deal done, they spurned every single one. Now we're fucked.
Private Francois?
you might think that, I couldn't possibly comment.
All of them and they've fucked our party for 10-15 years in the process. We're done as a political force. Not only are we about to get a zombie UK brexit, we're also going to get Corbyn as PM.
I'm genuinely thinking of selling my flat before it gets expropriated by the communist left.
What make you think Corbyn has the slightest interest in your flat.
Unless its never lived in in which case give us the keys now.
It's got two empty bedrooms. Commissar Corbyn will want to put random unemployed people in there.
Bedroom Tax!!
But seriously do you really believe what your typing
If he does, he's even more stupid than I have previously assumed.
I'm registered to vote in Twickenham but am spending most of my time in West Dorset, a second home. Are there any ramifications if I register to vote in West Dorset with the intention of voting here in any GE?
You won't be able to vote in Twickenham any long and Council Tax might be an issue depending on how many still "live in" the Twickenham houe/flat when you are no longer officially there. I can't think of any other serious ramifications.
Prepare for the final economic decline of a once great nation, about to be turned into a Marxist republic under PM Jeremy Corbyn, Hard left socialist / Marxist / communist , and we are going to be undemocratically subservient to a rule making unelected EU who will dictate our tariffs and foreign policy for us with no say in the matter. We are so screwed. I will never ever vote Tory again or anyone for that matter
Have people really forgotten that May has done this exact same "talks with opposition leader(s)" PR stunt twice already this year, and both times she just didn't engage with any of the suggestions those leaders made in those talks, and then after a few days went back to saying "my deal is the only way"? Why would it be any different this time?
Time has passed, more votes have been lost, May is a victim of the clock ticking down as much as anyone.
Indeed. If May was prepared to countenance No Deal we'd have left last week.
Yet SO and others on here have been saying all day that is what she'd do. They were wrong. She has made many mistakes but at the end of the day the deal she got was as good as Brexit gets for those who support it. More fool them for siding with Labour to vote it down. The ERG are the party traitors.
I have said from the beginning that no PM can afford to take us to no deal. Despite her legacy already being close to rock bottom, May won't want to go down in history alongside Lord North.
Indeed, as losing Scotland is a likely legacy of No Deal that would be equivalent to Lord North's losing America
ITYM "losing Scotland and Northern Ireland".
Less soon as NI has a DUP First Minister and Scotland an SNP First Minister but in any case Ireland was already lost a century ago, it would just be reuniting the Northern bits with the Republic
I'm registered to vote in Twickenham but am spending most of my time in West Dorset, a second home. Are there any ramifications if I register to vote in West Dorset with the intention of voting here in any GE?
It is possible to be on both registers, and indeed vote in both local elections. Only one or t'other at a GE though.
Have people really forgotten that May has done this exact same "talks with opposition leader(s)" PR stunt twice already this year, and both times she just didn't engage with any of the suggestions those leaders made in those talks, and then after a few days went back to saying "my deal is the only way"? Why would it be any different this time?
Time has passed, more votes have been lost, May is a victim of the clock ticking down as much as anyone.
Indeed. If May was prepared to countenance No Deal we'd have left last week.
Yet SO and others on here have been saying all day that is what she'd do. They were wrong. She has made many mistakes but at the end of the day the deal she got was as good as Brexit gets for those who support it. More fool them for siding with Labour to vote it down. The ERG are the party traitors.
I have said from the beginning that no PM can afford to take us to no deal. Despite her legacy already being close to rock bottom, May won't want to go down in history alongside Lord North.
Indeed, as losing Scotland is a likely legacy of No Deal that would be equivalent to Lord North's losing America
The phraseology of "losing" Scotland is quite revealing, as if it were a colonial possession.
Scotland, unlike the American colonies, does have representation and taxation at both Westminster and Holyrood but it would still be lost from the Union in all likelihood with No Deal
I bet someone has talked of the EU losing Britain too.
If Tories cannot pass anything on Brexit, and no deal is bad as the Commons thinks, then non Tories are going to be needed to pass something. Either the Tories as a whole attempt to shape that something, or it gets shaped without them with the help of a few rebels.
Why so many Tories struggle with this I do not know. They seem to think other people voting for Brexit is bad, even though they don't have enough on their own to do it.
It's quite incredible how the ERG and their outliers are acting.
'We want X' 'There's no majority for X, something else will be passed. How about Y?' 'We want X' 'I get it. But if you don't vote for Y you may get Z, which is even worse' 'We want X' 'Well it is too late now, we're getting Z' 'How dare you not give us X?'
They've hung themselves out to dry and are now complaining they've been hung out to dry.
A conclusion that most eurosceptics here were able to reach in November.
It's quite incredible how the ERG and their outliers are acting.
'We want X' 'There's no majority for X, something else will be passed. How about Y?' 'We want X' 'I get it. But if you don't vote for Y you may get Z, which is even worse' 'We want X' 'Well it is too late now, we're getting Z' 'How dare you not give us X?'
They've hung themselves out to dry and are now complaining they've been hung out to dry.
Prepare for the final economic decline of a once great nation, about to be turned into a Marxist republic under PM Jeremy Corbyn, Hard left socialist / Marxist / communist , and we are going to be undemocratically subservient to a rule making unelected EU who will dictate our tariffs and foreign policy for us with no say in the matter. We are so screwed. I will never ever vote Tory again or anyone for that matter
These c*nts had 3 chances to get the deal done, they spurned every single one. Now we're fucked.
Private Francois?
you might think that, I couldn't possibly comment.
All of them and they've fucked our party for 10-15 years in the process. We're done as a political force. Not only are we about to get a zombie UK brexit, we're also going to get Corbyn as PM.
I'm genuinely thinking of selling my flat before it gets expropriated by the communist left.
What make you think Corbyn has the slightest interest in your flat.
Unless its never lived in in which case give us the keys now.
It's got two empty bedrooms. Commissar Corbyn will want to put random unemployed people in there.
Bedroom Tax!!
But seriously do you really believe what your typing
No, but I do want a bigger place so I might sell up and get a bigger house out towards the country.
I don't think in their hearts May and Corbyn are a million miles apart on Brexit. They might end up agreeing something or other !
Do you think Corbyn's position is sincere? Surely his CU thing has been his excuse for voting against the WA. I can't see anything changing.
#CorbynsCustomsUnion - Even May is begging for it!
Not sure he is serious about PV. But willing to give it for the greater good of JIMIPM
Seems to me the sensible compromise is Labour's CU plan, no referendum. If both sides, or enough of them, agree on the outcome, why is a comfirmatory referendum needed? Tories compromise on the CU, Labour on the PV. Fair is fair.
I'm registered to vote in Twickenham but am spending most of my time in West Dorset, a second home. Are there any ramifications if I register to vote in West Dorset with the intention of voting here in any GE?
Why would you want to vote in West Dorset compared to Twickers, Letwin is safe as houses whereas Twickenham can be a marginal (Though I expect it'll be an easy Lib Dem hold)
It's quite incredible how the ERG and their outliers are acting.
'We want X' 'There's no majority for X, something else will be passed. How about Y?' 'We want X' 'I get it. But if you don't vote for Y you may get Z, which is even worse' 'We want X' 'Well it is too late now, we're getting Z' 'How dare you not give us X?'
They've hung themselves out to dry and are now complaining they've been hung out to dry.
A conclusion that most eurosceptics here were able to reach in November.
The ERG has a selection process based on lowest IQ.
Prepare for the final economic decline of a once great nation, about to be turned into a Marxist republic under PM Jeremy Corbyn, Hard left socialist / Marxist / communist , and we are going to be undemocratically subservient to a rule making unelected EU who will dictate our tariffs and foreign policy for us with no say in the matter. We are so screwed. I will never ever vote Tory again or anyone for that matter
I believe you are a Leaver? In which case you did this. Well done.
It's quite incredible how the ERG and their outliers are acting.
'We want X' 'There's no majority for X, something else will be passed. How about Y?' 'We want X' 'I get it. But if you don't vote for Y you may get Z, which is even worse' 'We want X' 'Well it is too late now, we're getting Z' 'How dare you not give us X?'
They've hung themselves out to dry and are now complaining they've been hung out to dry.
After May finally goes, they will presumably look to take the party over as the Corbynites did with Labour, and keep fighting.
Hence why an Early election need be Labour's key demand. It is the only way to save the country from the ERG.
If the ERG had the collective spine they claim to have, wouldn't it be they who VONC the government?
VONC needs to come from LOTO, under the fixed term parliament act, I thought.
No, my reading is that there's no restriction on who can put such a motion. Govt, oppo, Letwin day, EDM, whatever. I think you could even do it as an amendment.
*Disclaimer: I've never voted Tory in my life, but I could at least respect people who genuinely wanted to do their best for this country, even if I disagreed with them on policy.
We're still around.
We're like the Jedi at the end of Revenge of the Sith though.
So basically your faction now consists of Ewan McGregor and a 900 year old green gnome?
Ken Clarke is obviously Ewan McGregor in Hush Puppies in this scenario, which would make you...?
It's quite incredible how the ERG and their outliers are acting.
'We want X' 'There's no majority for X, something else will be passed. How about Y?' 'We want X' 'I get it. But if you don't vote for Y you may get Z, which is even worse' 'We want X' 'Well it is too late now, we're getting Z' 'How dare you not give us X?'
They've hung themselves out to dry and are now complaining they've been hung out to dry.
If Labour help the Tories pass the WA (which includes the backstop) won't the DUP just VoNC the government?
Yes or try and agree a SM and CU Deal for the future relationship with Corbyn for the whole UK which negates the backstop anyway, it is not impossible if the ERG also VONC the government Corbyn could be PM by the end of the week with SNP, LD, DUP, Green and Plaid confidence and supply
Prepare for the final economic decline of a once great nation, about to be turned into a Marxist republic under PM Jeremy Corbyn, Hard left socialist / Marxist / communist , and we are going to be undemocratically subservient to a rule making unelected EU who will dictate our tariffs and foreign policy for us with no say in the matter. We are so screwed. I will never ever vote Tory again or anyone for that matter
A trifle pessimistic?
I think anger will be rising in the country tonight , the people are being sidelined, their votes worthless and no lessons have been learnt about why people voted leave. MPs are so detached from real peoples lives, a plague on all their houses
Prepare for the final economic decline of a once great nation, about to be turned into a Marxist republic under PM Jeremy Corbyn, Hard left socialist / Marxist / communist , and we are going to be undemocratically subservient to a rule making unelected EU who will dictate our tariffs and foreign policy for us with no say in the matter. We are so screwed. I will never ever vote Tory again or anyone for that matter
You think we are going to be a Marxist republic subservient to the EU? Interesting concept.
Prepare for the final economic decline of a once great nation, about to be turned into a Marxist republic under PM Jeremy Corbyn, Hard left socialist / Marxist / communist , and we are going to be undemocratically subservient to a rule making unelected EU who will dictate our tariffs and foreign policy for us with no say in the matter. We are so screwed. I will never ever vote Tory again or anyone for that matter
Yes, if we remained in the EU, much of that could be prevented by EU law.
But dont worry, PM Corbyn will need to be chosen by the Will of the People, and who can deny them their democratic right?
May's original deal versus revoke in a run-off referendum is the only way out of this madness. A GE will not solve Brexit unless Labour stand on clear second ref and get a majority and do not renege. Corbyn government would be disaster, permanent CU would be unstable because it is crap and being in is so much better. May's deal is softest Brexit that makes any sort of sense.
It's quite incredible how the ERG and their outliers are acting.
'We want X' 'There's no majority for X, something else will be passed. How about Y?' 'We want X' 'I get it. But if you don't vote for Y you may get Z, which is even worse' 'We want X' 'Well it is too late now, we're getting Z' 'How dare you not give us X?'
That all sounds very similar to how May has been talking until today.
I'm registered to vote in Twickenham but am spending most of my time in West Dorset, a second home. Are there any ramifications if I register to vote in West Dorset with the intention of voting here in any GE?
Why would you want to vote in West Dorset compared to Twickers, Letwin is safe as houses whereas Twickenham can be a marginal (Though I expect it'll be an easy Lib Dem hold)
Well he was safe as houses. Who knows what might happen but I agree that Twickenham is an easy hold for the Libs. It's also remainer territory.
*Disclaimer: I've never voted Tory in my life, but I could at least respect people who genuinely wanted to do their best for this country, even if I disagreed with them on policy.
We're still around.
We're like the Jedi at the end of Revenge of the Sith though.
So basically your faction now consists of Ewan McGregor and a 900 year old green gnome?
Ken Clarke is obviously Ewan McGregor in Hush Puppies in this scenario, which would make you...?
Prepare for the final economic decline of a once great nation, about to be turned into a Marxist republic under PM Jeremy Corbyn, Hard left socialist / Marxist / communist , and we are going to be undemocratically subservient to a rule making unelected EU who will dictate our tariffs and foreign policy for us with no say in the matter. We are so screwed. I will never ever vote Tory again or anyone for that matter
A trifle pessimistic?
I think anger will be rising in the country tonight , the people are being sidelined, their votes worthless and no lessons have been learnt about why people voted leave. MPs are so detached from real peoples lives, a plague on all their houses
Anger will be rising because cynical politicians will be stoking it. We're not really any closer to an outcome, May and Corbyn have little incentive to bend even if they say they want to work together (in reality what could Corbyn sell to his party other than a PV, which is not a compromise at all, it's May doing what he wants), and bottom line is we were set for a multi year transition anyway, in the short term we won't really know the difference if some agreement were reached.
We will all get the chance to punish or reward the parties at a GE, probably this year.
May's original deal versus revoke in a run-off referendum is the only way out of this madness. A GE will not solve Brexit unless Labour stand on clear second ref and get a majority and do not renege. Corbyn government would be disaster, permanent CU would be unstable because it is crap and being in is so much better. May's deal is softest Brexit that makes any sort of sense.
Judging from the reaction from the ERG, today is a stepping stone towards that. May first needs to get them to the point where they realise that both her deal and Remain are preferable to the alternative.
Prepare for the final economic decline of a once great nation, about to be turned into a Marxist republic under PM Jeremy Corbyn, Hard left socialist / Marxist / communist , and we are going to be undemocratically subservient to a rule making unelected EU who will dictate our tariffs and foreign policy for us with no say in the matter. We are so screwed. I will never ever vote Tory again or anyone for that matter
I believe you are a Leaver? In which case you did this. Well done.
No Michael Gove stabbed the one man who could have negotiated a decent brexit in the back. Theresa May is no leaver never has been , she has by stealth and deception subverted the whole brexit process by fully surrendering to her EU masters. The political establishment has betrayed the voters demand to leave the EU. It was never going to be allowed to happen. The civil service would never allow to leave either.
To be fair to May, thinking about it, her U turns, movement on red lines, indicative votes, reaching out to a Labour Brexit, does mean something good can happen now. The EU can put the Labour Brexit into the PD after just a couple of days negotiation. Both party leaders in the same lobby guarantees aye for something at last, what do we think, all SNP, DUP, TIG, LD voting against, plus substantial rebellions from Tory and Labour too, but the ayes still have it by 150-200? And Labour will insist May cave in to a confirmation vote as well, and public will endorse it 60/40 at worst? So a 150+ commons win and 60/40 public support draws a line under this brexit saga for a long time, and we can move on.
Labours even got leadsome parroting about a jobs brexit already. 😃
So like I said, to be fair to May, she put country before party when it came to it?
Prepare for the final economic decline of a once great nation, about to be turned into a Marxist republic under PM Jeremy Corbyn, Hard left socialist / Marxist / communist , and we are going to be undemocratically subservient to a rule making unelected EU who will dictate our tariffs and foreign policy for us with no say in the matter. We are so screwed. I will never ever vote Tory again or anyone for that matter
I believe you are a Leaver? In which case you did this. Well done.
No Michael Gove stabbed the one man who could have negotiated a decent brexit in the back. Theresa May is no leaver never has been , she has by stealth and deception subverted the whole brexit process by fully surrendering to her EU masters. The political establishment has betrayed the voters demand to leave the EU. It was never going to be allowed to happen. The civil service would never allow to leave either.
What during Boris Johnson's tenure as Foreign Secretary makes you think he could have negotiated a decent Brexit?
Prepare for the final economic decline of a once great nation, about to be turned into a Marxist republic under PM Jeremy Corbyn, Hard left socialist / Marxist / communist , and we are going to be undemocratically subservient to a rule making unelected EU who will dictate our tariffs and foreign policy for us with no say in the matter. We are so screwed. I will never ever vote Tory again or anyone for that matter
I believe you are a Leaver? In which case you did this. Well done.
No Michael Gove stabbed the one man who could have negotiated a decent brexit in the back. Theresa May is no leaver never has been , she has by stealth and deception subverted the whole brexit process by fully surrendering to her EU masters. The political establishment has betrayed the voters demand to leave the EU. It was never going to be allowed to happen. The civil service would never allow to leave either.
Boris Johnson seeing out a decent Brexit deal? Is that a squadron of flying unicorns I see above me?
It's quite incredible how the ERG and their outliers are acting.
'We want X' 'There's no majority for X, something else will be passed. How about Y?' 'We want X' 'I get it. But if you don't vote for Y you may get Z, which is even worse' 'We want X' 'Well it is too late now, we're getting Z' 'How dare you not give us X?'
That all sounds very similar to how May has been talking until today.
Everyone has been behaving the same way demanding the other side do what they want. In fairness to Corbyn he moved a bit on the indicative votes. But PV supporters scuppered other options then immediately claimed a PV was needed despite it losing by more than CU for instance. None have behaved well. The ERG have moaned the loudest though, with the most pomposity.
Their numbers would have swung it last time even without the DUP. They said no, and are now mad that what they were told could happen is happening.
Prepare for the final economic decline of a once great nation, about to be turned into a Marxist republic under PM Jeremy Corbyn, Hard left socialist / Marxist / communist , and we are going to be undemocratically subservient to a rule making unelected EU who will dictate our tariffs and foreign policy for us with no say in the matter. We are so screwed. I will never ever vote Tory again or anyone for that matter
I believe you are a Leaver? In which case you did this. Well done.
No Michael Gove stabbed the one man who could have negotiated a decent brexit in the back. Theresa May is no leaver never has been , she has by stealth and deception subverted the whole brexit process by fully surrendering to her EU masters. The political establishment has betrayed the voters demand to leave the EU. It was never going to be allowed to happen. The civil service would never allow to leave either.
What during Boris Johnson's tenure as Foreign Secretary makes you think he could have negotiated a decent Brexit?
It's not that Boris Johnson could have negotiated a decent Brexit, but he might have been able to convince @kjohnw that a bad one was good.
Comments
I am an LD leaning Green btw, and have voted Tory as recently as 2010
With waiting for a better day;
See how idiot-like he stands,
Fumbling with his palsied hands
Also that's not what has happened. May, terrible though she hsa been, has worked damn hard to pass something without working with Corbyn. The people most angry now stopped it from working. Heck, some of them have threatened to back Corbyn in a vote of no confidence in the government.
Assuming May is being sincere, she is finally being more statesmanlike and grown up. That Tories are angry she is (at least in appearence) trying to be less partisan, is very telling.
It makes the disgraced national security risk Liam Fox redundant.
#JezHasPlayedABlinder
Instead we are now more likely to end up with Deal plus CU after more indicative votes and then further extension to ratify and a transition period whoever ends up PM
*Disclaimer: I've never voted Tory in my life, but I could at least respect people who genuinely wanted to do their best for this country, even if I disagreed with them on policy.
Unless its never lived in in which case give us the keys now.
Hes a leaver trying to remain
Together they are TezzleJezzle 'politics begins at home'
We're like the Jedi at the end of Revenge of the Sith though.
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1113168962106396672?s=20
'We want X'
'There's no majority for X, something else will be passed. How about Y?'
'We want X'
'I get it. But if you don't vote for Y you may get Z, which is even worse'
'We want X'
'Well it is too late now, we're getting Z'
'How dare you not give us X?'
They've hung themselves out to dry and are now complaining they've been hung out to dry.
But seriously do you really believe what your typing
That would be a gross misuse of intel, a horrible inversion of the party/country hierarchy of interests, and frankly the most monumental darkside. So yes, expect that to be the case.
We only have a one bedroom flat, so I'm reasonably confident we won't have to put up more than one smallish family of asylum seekers in our lounge.
May should start out by asking Corbyn to lay out his Brexit plan in full that satisfies his own 6 tests.
A VONC from the LOTO means the government has to give it priority over all other Commons business.
A VONC from anyone other than the LOTO doesn't get the same priority and may even not be given time to be debated/voted by the government.
But that t is one reason they won't help it pass, I suspect. Never? If they united on this issue they wouldn't be in their current state paralysed to move one or another, until possibly tonight.
Not sure he is serious about PV. But willing to give it for the greater good of JIMIPM
Why so many Tories struggle with this I do not know. They seem to think other people voting for Brexit is bad, even though they don't have enough on their own to do it.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/02/strip-tiny-band-remainer-wreckers-tories-not-split-brexit/
We have confidence now thanks.
Ken Clarke is obviously Ewan McGregor in Hush Puppies in this scenario, which would make you...?
But dont worry, PM Corbyn will need to be chosen by the Will of the People, and who can deny them their democratic right?
Save NHS
Renationalize Railways
Max's flat
Anything else
We will all get the chance to punish or reward the parties at a GE, probably this year.
Labours even got leadsome parroting about a jobs brexit already. 😃
So like I said, to be fair to May, she put country before party when it came to it?
They own everything that’s happened and clearly got delusions and couldn’t count .
A small number of sane Tories was all that’s needed with the opposition to stop their no deal fantasy .
Their numbers would have swung it last time even without the DUP. They said no, and are now mad that what they were told could happen is happening.