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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Next step for Peterborough MP Fiona Onasanya – facing a recall

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Comments

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    Oh dear.

    “Leading” Brexit thinker Pete North is doubling down against AC Grayling, despite having just been fined £20k for libellous accusations of paedophilia.

    http://peterjnorth.blogspot.com/2019/03/noncegate-revisited.html

    What happens if he doesn't cough up the money?
    I don’t know. Contempt of court?

    Also, there’s this:

    As to my legal obligations as per the judgement, I make no promises that I won't take the piss out of AC Grayling ever again, though his total insignificance probably means I have bigger fish to fry. As far as an apology goes, I will never apologise for taking the mick out of public lunatics - especially leaders of political campaigns - but I can at least understand how a man who looks and sounds like Grayling would be sensitive to the inference that he is a paedophile.
    Grayling will bankrupt him if he doesn't pay. It's not a "fine" it's damages. It's now a debt that he has admitted he can't pay so, if that's true, the logical next step is to petition for his bankruptcy.
    Taking the piss out of someone is fine. Calling them a "cock" or a "bellend" is perfectly legal, if not polite behaviour.

    But when you start claiming someone is a paedophile, them - well - you better be right. As Katie Hopkins discovered, going round slandering people can really screw your life up. (And, if you are caught, apologise profusely, and offer money to charity. Basically, a quick "sorry" can save you from bankruptcy and all that entails.)
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited March 2019
    agingjb said:

    The analogy between Crosby and Peterborough, if it is intended to be an analogy between the SDP and the TIG, breaks down because there is no Shirley Williams figure, a supporter of the TIG who is a well known former MP. Or is there?

    It breaks down because Peterborough doesn't have large numbers of voters who would be receptive to an SDP-type party, whereas Crosby did.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    OT almost-bombs found at Heathrow, Waterloo & London City Airport

    These devices, at this early stage of the investigation, appear capable of igniting an initially small fire when opened.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-47457477
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237

    Mr. Divvie, are you suggesting that declining diesel sales and the EU-Japan FTA have had no impact?

    You might argue that the UK (perhaps) leaving the EU is the biggest factor, but pretending the others don't exist or are negligible is wearing blinkers.

    There are multiple factors.

    Anyone who says that Brexit is the only one is deluded. Anyone who claims "it's nothing to do with Brexit" is deluded.

    The good news is that it's now possible to tell who are the complete idiots on here, by their refusal to admit that the real world is a complex place.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,914

    OT almost-bombs found at Heathrow, Waterloo & London City Airport

    These devices, at this early stage of the investigation, appear capable of igniting an initially small fire when opened.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-47457477

    I wonder if this is related to the Gatwick drone disruption. Is there a fringe group targetting transport?
  • agingjb said:

    The analogy between Crosby and Peterborough, if it is intended to be an analogy between the SDP and the TIG, breaks down because there is no Shirley Williams figure, a supporter of the TIG who is a well known former MP. Or is there?

    Ed Balls could stand as a TIGger?
    Mark Reckless could stand as a TOSser.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    Top excuses that aren't Brexit?

    Diesel.
    They wuz going to do it anyway.
    EU-Japan free trade deal.
    Global uncertainty.

    Any more?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1102965059611955200

    It’s most unusual that it’s happening at the same time. What an eerie coincidence!
    It’s almost as if there’s some kind of government policy to de-industrialise.
    More nothing to do with Brexit news.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1102921190526590977?s=21
    and hows that different to when PSA closed their factory in Coventry and transferred all the production to Slovakia in 2006 ?
    We'll have to give you that that wasn't anything to do with Brexit. But why do you bring it up?
    I bring it up because factory closures in automotive downturns are the norm and because factory closures have been the nrom when in the EU. Those yelliing loudest are the same people who told people in the Midlands and North to suck it up and then got sulky when large swathes of the industrial belt voted out.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Scott_P said:
    Is there any real sign yet that a meaningful vote will be lost by less than 150?
    No. It's all still hingeing on assumptions that some tweak will deliver a lot of votes even as the EU rubbishes the idea of anything meaningful, the ERG leak that nothing achievable is enough, and labour rebels mostly stick to their guns.

    Maybe it'll be closer than 150, but it wont pass, not even close. MPs would still rarger avoid than decide.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    rpjs said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_P said:
    But the Salade au Chlorine is still on....
    Funny that you mention that:

    twitter.com/BpsmithUk/status/1101994462971088896?s=19

    The reason that Chlorine chicken is dangerous is not the chlorine, it is the substandard hygiene necessitating chlorine:

    twitter.com/BpsmithUk/status/1101925348726489088?s=19
    The quality of food here in the US, especially “fresh” meat, fish and vegetables in the supermarkets, is appalling. We can afford to buy a lot of our food from farmers’ markets but even that isn’t particularly good.
    There's a certain irony here.

    The main beneficiaries of a free trade deal with the US would be poor people in cities, who would get cheaper food.

    The main losers of a deal would be people who live or work in the countryside, who would find themselves competing with people with lower cost bases (largely due to lower farm standards).

    The former group are in opposition, and are vehemently opposed to any kind of FTA with "Trump's America". The latter group are in government, and are desperate for a deal.

    Ultimately, I can't see rural Conservative MPs voting for a US FTA that includes unfettered access for agricultural products. So, we can debate it all we like, but it 'ain't happening.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387
    rcs1000 said:

    Mr. Divvie, are you suggesting that declining diesel sales and the EU-Japan FTA have had no impact?

    You might argue that the UK (perhaps) leaving the EU is the biggest factor, but pretending the others don't exist or are negligible is wearing blinkers.

    There are multiple factors.

    Anyone who says that Brexit is the only one is deluded. Anyone who claims "it's nothing to do with Brexit" is deluded.

    The good news is that it's now possible to tell who are the complete idiots on here, by their refusal to admit that the real world is a complex place.
    Sounds about right.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Yet another damning letter of resignation from a former close colleague of Corbyn

    How can any sensible Labour member not follow suit and walk away from this toxic mess?

    https://www.thejc.com/comment/comment/dear-jeremy-corbyn-richard-horton-resignation-letter-1.481017

    They don't believe it or don't care. It's as simple as that. If the Tories are just that bad for some, they will prioritise beating them over any internal concerns.

    It's not a view unique to labour of course but it's quite pressing for them at present.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. 1000, speaking of people who aren't idiots, it's been a while since I saw you mention a video. Still doing them?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    rcs1000 said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    Oh dear.

    “Leading” Brexit thinker Pete North is doubling down against AC Grayling, despite having just been fined £20k for libellous accusations of paedophilia.

    http://peterjnorth.blogspot.com/2019/03/noncegate-revisited.html

    What happens if he doesn't cough up the money?
    I don’t know. Contempt of court?

    Also, there’s this:

    As to my legal obligations as per the judgement, I make no promises that I won't take the piss out of AC Grayling ever again, though his total insignificance probably means I have bigger fish to fry. As far as an apology goes, I will never apologise for taking the mick out of public lunatics - especially leaders of political campaigns - but I can at least understand how a man who looks and sounds like Grayling would be sensitive to the inference that he is a paedophile.
    Grayling will bankrupt him if he doesn't pay. It's not a "fine" it's damages. It's now a debt that he has admitted he can't pay so, if that's true, the logical next step is to petition for his bankruptcy.
    Taking the piss out of someone is fine. Calling them a "cock" or a "bellend" is perfectly legal, if not polite behaviour.

    But when you start claiming someone is a paedophile, them - well - you better be right. As Katie Hopkins discovered, going round slandering people can really screw your life up. (And, if you are caught, apologise profusely, and offer money to charity. Basically, a quick "sorry" can save you from bankruptcy and all that entails.)
    He didn't even put in a defence to Grayling's claim. Just something, saying it was obvious hyperbole, satire, could possibly have got him somewhere, although its unlikely. Not putting a defence in at all is just giving up.

    However, when my witnesses for my employer clients say that harassment was just "banter" before the employment tribunal then I generally advise them to throw in the towel as the tribunal invariably takes it as an admission. I've no doubt that, if he had bothered submitting it, the defence that he offers here would have been held similarly by the High Court - but I'm not a defamaton lawyer.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    rcs1000 said:

    Mr. Divvie, are you suggesting that declining diesel sales and the EU-Japan FTA have had no impact?

    You might argue that the UK (perhaps) leaving the EU is the biggest factor, but pretending the others don't exist or are negligible is wearing blinkers.

    There are multiple factors.

    Anyone who says that Brexit is the only one is deluded. Anyone who claims "it's nothing to do with Brexit" is deluded.

    The good news is that it's now possible to tell who are the complete idiots on here, by their refusal to admit that the real world is a complex place.
    I don’t believe - but happy to stand corrected - that anyone on here has said “it’s all down to Brexit”.

    However the role-call of deniers is legion.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Scott_P said:
    Certainly a lot of bad stories in that industry right now.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Top excuses that aren't Brexit?

    Diesel.
    They wuz going to do it anyway.
    EU-Japan free trade deal.
    Global uncertainty.

    Any more?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1102965059611955200

    It’s most unusual that it’s happening at the same time. What an eerie coincidence!
    It’s almost as if there’s some kind of government policy to de-industrialise.
    More nothing to do with Brexit news.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1102921190526590977?s=21
    and hows that different to when PSA closed their factory in Coventry and transferred all the production to Slovakia in 2006 ?
    We'll have to give you that that wasn't anything to do with Brexit. But why do you bring it up?
    I bring it up because factory closures in automotive downturns are the norm and because factory closures have been the nrom when in the EU. Those yelliing loudest are the same people who told people in the Midlands and North to suck it up and then got sulky when large swathes of the industrial belt voted out.
    Who, on here, or frankly anywhere, told people in the Midlands or the North to “suck it up”?

    This bizarre notion seems to be the core of your whole philosophy.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    edited March 2019
    Scott_P said:
    It's thousands of jobs - As I will continually repeat there is 1 model not being mentioned in any reporting that is due to be launched later this year yet has been delayed...

    That model is also 10 years old and far better cars have been recently launched in that market segment which is why sales of it are rapidly falling
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    edited March 2019

    Top excuses that aren't Brexit?

    Diesel.
    They wuz going to do it anyway.
    EU-Japan free trade deal.
    Global uncertainty.

    Any more?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1102965059611955200

    It’s most unusual that it’s happening at the same time. What an eerie coincidence!
    It’s almost as if there’s some kind of government policy to de-industrialise.
    More nothing to do with Brexit news.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1102921190526590977?s=21
    and hows that different to when PSA closed their factory in Coventry and transferred all the production to Slovakia in 2006 ?
    They’re both examples showing the importance of the EU single market to car manufacturing.
    No theyre simply examples of how Anglo saxon unprotected labour rules are incompatible with the EU. The brits are always first to get shat on when multinats need to make pan European savings.
    That's not quite true any more. If you look at the ILO statistics on flexibility of labour market, we used to be miles better than anyone else. We're now a smidgen behind Ireland, Estonia and the Netherlands and only a fraction ahead of Belgium, Spain and Portugal.

    We're still a lot better than Italy and France mind, although the ILO hasn't updated the data to reflect recent progress in France.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,730
    Scott_P said:
    Is she admitting she didn't report something about Nissan because the government denied it?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237

    Mr. 1000, speaking of people who aren't idiots, it's been a while since I saw you mention a video. Still doing them?

    No, I've started a new business. Which I'm going to do a video on :)
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Scott_P said:
    Is she admitting she didn't report something about Nissan because the government denied it?
    The BBC is much more cautious about reporting stories than Sky. That means that Sky is often fleeter of foot but more often has to make corrections. Supposedly the BBC put-down of Sky is "never wrong for long".
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    edited March 2019
    Perhaps unlikely but I know we have some gamers here so I thought I'd mention this:

    apparently Anthem is capable of not merely crashing but sometimes bricking PS4 consoles. So, you might want to forgo that particular game. Or take a bit of a risk.

    Edited extra bit: best of luck, Mr. 1000. Any hints?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Turning up in court without papers before Lord Chief Justice Leveson might not have been the wisest course of action. It is surprising see how Fiona Onasanya has managed to destroy her political career for the sake of more points on a driving licence. It remains to be seen if she works as a solicitor again.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    Top excuses that aren't Brexit?

    Diesel.
    They wuz going to do it anyway.
    EU-Japan free trade deal.
    Global uncertainty.

    Any more?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1102965059611955200

    It’s most unusual that it’s happening at the same time. What an eerie coincidence!
    It’s almost as if there’s some kind of government policy to de-industrialise.
    More nothing to do with Brexit news.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1102921190526590977?s=21
    and hows that different to when PSA closed their factory in Coventry and transferred all the production to Slovakia in 2006 ?
    We'll have to give you that that wasn't anything to do with Brexit. But why do you bring it up?
    I bring it up because factory closures in automotive downturns are the norm and because factory closures have been the nrom when in the EU. Those yelliing loudest are the same people who told people in the Midlands and North to suck it up and then got sulky when large swathes of the industrial belt voted out.
    Who, on here, or frankly anywhere, told people in the Midlands or the North to “suck it up”?

    This bizarre notion seems to be the core of your whole philosophy.
    Alistair Meeks for one

    but then Ive been on this board much longer than you
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,773

    Yet another damning letter of resignation from a former close colleague of Corbyn

    How can any sensible Labour member not follow suit and walk away from this toxic mess?

    https://www.thejc.com/comment/comment/dear-jeremy-corbyn-richard-horton-resignation-letter-1.481017

    First they came for the Jews, and I did nothing...



  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    rcs1000 said:

    Top excuses that aren't Brexit?

    Diesel.
    They wuz going to do it anyway.
    EU-Japan free trade deal.
    Global uncertainty.

    Any more?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1102965059611955200

    It’s most unusual that it’s happening at the same time. What an eerie coincidence!
    It’s almost as if there’s some kind of government policy to de-industrialise.
    More nothing to do with Brexit news.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1102921190526590977?s=21
    and hows that different to when PSA closed their factory in Coventry and transferred all the production to Slovakia in 2006 ?
    They’re both examples showing the importance of the EU single market to car manufacturing.
    No theyre simply examples of how Anglo saxon unprotected labour rules are incompatible with the EU. The brits are always first to get shat on when multinats need to make pan European savings.
    That's not quite true any more. If you look at the ILO statistics on flexibility of labour market, we used to be miles better than anyone else. We're now a smidgen behind Ireland, Estonia and the Netherlands and only a fraction ahead of Belgium, Spain and Portugal.

    We're still a lot better than Italy and France mind, although the ILO hasn't updated the data to reflect recent progress in France.
    Id argue thats an irrelevant statistic, its about ease of closure and the UK and Ireland are the easiest places to shed labour. No social plan, less cost per employee and as for pensions...

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,730

    Scott_P said:
    Is she admitting she didn't report something about Nissan because the government denied it?
    The BBC is much more cautious about reporting stories than Sky. That means that Sky is often fleeter of foot but more often has to make corrections. Supposedly the BBC put-down of Sky is "never wrong for long".
    It seems odd that her fact-checking consisted of asking "government sources". Why would they be in a position to know?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    rcs1000 said:

    Top excuses that aren't Brexit?

    Diesel.
    They wuz going to do it anyway.
    EU-Japan free trade deal.
    Global uncertainty.

    Any more?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1102965059611955200

    It’s most unusual that it’s happening at the same time. What an eerie coincidence!
    It’s almost as if there’s some kind of government policy to de-industrialise.
    More nothing to do with Brexit news.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1102921190526590977?s=21
    and hows that different to when PSA closed their factory in Coventry and transferred all the production to Slovakia in 2006 ?
    They’re both examples showing the importance of the EU single market to car manufacturing.
    No theyre simply examples of how Anglo saxon unprotected labour rules are incompatible with the EU. The brits are always first to get shat on when multinats need to make pan European savings.
    That's not quite true any more. If you look at the ILO statistics on flexibility of labour market, we used to be miles better than anyone else. We're now a smidgen behind Ireland, Estonia and the Netherlands and only a fraction ahead of Belgium, Spain and Portugal.

    We're still a lot better than Italy and France mind, although the ILO hasn't updated the data to reflect recent progress in France.
    The Netherlands? That surprises me because after the probation period, to effect a redundancy there you need permission of the court or the UWV. Without it the termination is void. Employers here don't know how easy they have it sometimes.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    Recall petition in Peterborough is on:

    https://youtu.be/zo80AlMzh6c
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    Top excuses that aren't Brexit?

    Diesel.
    They wuz going to do it anyway.
    EU-Japan free trade deal.
    Global uncertainty.

    Any more?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1102965059611955200

    It’s most unusual that it’s happening at the same time. What an eerie coincidence!
    It’s almost as if there’s some kind of government policy to de-industrialise.
    More nothing to do with Brexit news.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1102921190526590977?s=21
    and hows that different to when PSA closed their factory in Coventry and transferred all the production to Slovakia in 2006 ?
    We'll have to give you that that wasn't anything to do with Brexit. But why do you bring it up?
    I bring it up because factory closures in automotive downturns are the norm and because factory closures have been the nrom when in the EU. Those yelliing loudest are the same people who told people in the Midlands and North to suck it up and then got sulky when large swathes of the industrial belt voted out.
    Factory closures are a normal part of business life. It's a competitive world. The point about Brexit is it makes us less competitive, so factory closures will result. And are doing.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Top excuses that aren't Brexit?

    Diesel.
    They wuz going to do it anyway.
    EU-Japan free trade deal.
    Global uncertainty.

    Any more?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1102965059611955200

    It’s most unusual that it’s happening at the same time. What an eerie coincidence!
    It’s almost as if there’s some kind of government policy to de-industrialise.
    More nothing to do with Brexit news.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1102921190526590977?s=21
    and hows that different to when PSA closed their factory in Coventry and transferred all the production to Slovakia in 2006 ?
    We'll have to give you that that wasn't anything to do with Brexit. But why do you bring it up?
    I bring it up because factory closures in automotive downturns are the norm and because factory closures have been the nrom when in the EU. Those yelliing loudest are the same people who told people in the Midlands and North to suck it up and then got sulky when large swathes of the industrial belt voted out.
    Who, on here, or frankly anywhere, told people in the Midlands or the North to “suck it up”?

    This bizarre notion seems to be the core of your whole philosophy.
    Alistair Meeks for one

    but then Ive been on this board much longer than you
    Yeah, they'll be sucking it up faster now. Tough shit. Hell mend them.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Sean_F said:

    agingjb said:

    The analogy between Crosby and Peterborough, if it is intended to be an analogy between the SDP and the TIG, breaks down because there is no Shirley Williams figure, a supporter of the TIG who is a well known former MP. Or is there?

    Maybe Tony Blair could stand
    I'm assuming that this is your puckish sense of humour .... but, if Blair really stood, Peterborough would descend into chaos.

    The many millions who despise him would hunt him down with rotten vegetables and stinking eggs.

    Whatever, Blair has reaffirmed he is Labour, so he would be standing under Labour colours, not as a black and yellow stripey animal.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Top excuses that aren't Brexit?

    Diesel.
    They wuz going to do it anyway.
    EU-Japan free trade deal.
    Global uncertainty.

    Any more?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1102965059611955200

    It’s most unusual that it’s happening at the same time. What an eerie coincidence!
    It’s almost as if there’s some kind of government policy to de-industrialise.
    More nothing to do with Brexit news.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1102921190526590977?s=21
    and hows that different to when PSA closed their factory in Coventry and transferred all the production to Slovakia in 2006 ?
    We'll have to give you that that wasn't anything to do with Brexit. But why do you bring it up?
    I bring it up because factory closures in automotive downturns are the norm and because factory closures have been the nrom when in the EU. Those yelliing loudest are the same people who told people in the Midlands and North to suck it up and then got sulky when large swathes of the industrial belt voted out.
    Factory closures are a normal part of business life. It's a competitive world. The point about Brexit is it makes us less competitive, so factory closures will result. And are doing.
    This self evident truth is hotly denied by Mr Alanbrooke who spends all his time complaining about the decline of manufacturing while supporting a policy that fucks manufacturing.
  • saddosaddo Posts: 534
    eek said:

    Scott_P said:
    It's thousands of jobs - As I will continually repeat there is 1 model not being mentioned in any reporting that is due to be launched later this year yet has been delayed...

    That model is also 10 years old and far better cars have been recently launched in that market segment which is why sales of it are rapidly falling
    Don't mention to the political class that banning new combustion engined vehicles after 2040 actually has real hard consequences. It'll only upset their little minds.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,773

    Scott_P said:
    Is she admitting she didn't report something about Nissan because the government denied it?
    The BBC is much more cautious about reporting stories than Sky. That means that Sky is often fleeter of foot but more often has to make corrections. Supposedly the BBC put-down of Sky is "never wrong for long".
    Operation Fuck Business (ceo: Boris Johnson) is going very well I see.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    Top excuses that aren't Brexit?

    Diesel.
    They wuz going to do it anyway.
    EU-Japan free trade deal.
    Global uncertainty.

    Any more?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1102965059611955200

    It’s most unusual that it’s happening at the same time. What an eerie coincidence!
    It’s almost as if there’s some kind of government policy to de-industrialise.
    More nothing to do with Brexit news.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1102921190526590977?s=21
    and hows that different to when PSA closed their factory in Coventry and transferred all the production to Slovakia in 2006 ?
    We'll have to give you that that wasn't anything to do with Brexit. But why do you bring it up?
    I bring it up because factory closures in automotive downturns are the norm and because factory closures have been the nrom when in the EU. Those yelliing loudest are the same people who told people in the Midlands and North to suck it up and then got sulky when large swathes of the industrial belt voted out.
    Factory closures are a normal part of business life. It's a competitive world. The point about Brexit is it makes us less competitive, so factory closures will result. And are doing.
    nonsense

    multinats have had a 15% currency devaluation boost since the end of 2015

    the competitive issue has morte to do with ease of closure UK sites compared to others and the fact that the UK government has no policies for industry and UK managers dont like to invest
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited March 2019
    To pursue the Crosby analogy, it took the nascent SDP some time to agree a deal with the Liberals (remember Bill Pitt).

    The Liberal by-election machine was then well oiled and ready to roll. That made Shirley Willaims's job much easier.

    The TIGgers have not yet reached any deal (why should the stronger, better organised party stand aside?) and the LibDem by-election machine is now rather rusty.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,914
    saddo said:

    Don't mention to the political class that banning new combustion engined vehicles after 2040 actually has real hard consequences. It'll only upset their little minds.

    1. "Stop making those."

    2. "Why are you closing the factory?"
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    Top excuses that aren't Brexit?

    Diesel.
    They wuz going to do it anyway.
    EU-Japan free trade deal.
    Global uncertainty.

    Any more?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1102965059611955200

    It’s most unusual that it’s happening at the same time. What an eerie coincidence!
    It’s almost as if there’s some kind of government policy to de-industrialise.
    More nothing to do with Brexit news.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1102921190526590977?s=21
    and hows that different to when PSA closed their factory in Coventry and transferred all the production to Slovakia in 2006 ?
    We'll have to give you that that wasn't anything to do with Brexit. But why do you bring it up?
    I bring it up because factory closures in automotive downturns are the norm and because factory closures have been the nrom when in the EU. Those yelliing loudest are the same people who told people in the Midlands and North to suck it up and then got sulky when large swathes of the industrial belt voted out.
    Who, on here, or frankly anywhere, told people in the Midlands or the North to “suck it up”?

    This bizarre notion seems to be the core of your whole philosophy.
    Alistair Meeks for one

    but then Ive been on this board much longer than you
    Yeah, they'll be sucking it up faster now. Tough shit. Hell mend them.
    and theyll vote out faster than ever
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    saddo said:

    eek said:

    Scott_P said:
    It's thousands of jobs - As I will continually repeat there is 1 model not being mentioned in any reporting that is due to be launched later this year yet has been delayed...

    That model is also 10 years old and far better cars have been recently launched in that market segment which is why sales of it are rapidly falling
    Don't mention to the political class that banning new combustion engined vehicles after 2040 actually has real hard consequences. It'll only upset their little minds.
    I suspect this has more to do with the internal politics of Nissan and Renault as much as anything else...
  • Just imagine how bad things would be if we didn't hold all the cards.
  • On topic, LOCK HER UP.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    Top excuses that aren't Brexit?

    Diesel.
    They wuz going to do it anyway.
    EU-Japan free trade deal.
    Global uncertainty.

    Any more?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1102965059611955200

    It’s most unusual that it’s happening at the same time. What an eerie coincidence!
    It’s almost as if there’s some kind of government policy to de-industrialise.
    More nothing to do with Brexit news.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1102921190526590977?s=21
    and hows that different to when PSA closed their factory in Coventry and transferred all the production to Slovakia in 2006 ?
    We'll have to give you that that wasn't anything to do with Brexit. But why do you bring it up?
    I bring it up because factory closures in automotive downturns are the norm and because factory closures have been the nrom when in the EU. Those yelliing loudest are the same people who told people in the Midlands and North to suck it up and then got sulky when large swathes of the industrial belt voted out.
    Factory closures are a normal part of business life. It's a competitive world. The point about Brexit is it makes us less competitive, so factory closures will result. And are doing.
    This self evident truth is hotly denied by Mr Alanbrooke who spends all his time complaining about the decline of manufacturing while supporting a policy that fucks manufacturing.
    the policies that facked manufacturing have been in place for the last 20 years, Brexit is simply one of the consequences.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Just imagine how bad things would be if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Only one of the car makers abandoning the UK is German. The others will be here any minute...
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    edited March 2019
    .
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    eek said:

    Scott_P said:
    It's thousands of jobs - As I will continually repeat there is 1 model not being mentioned in any reporting that is due to be launched later this year yet has been delayed...

    That model is also 10 years old and far better cars have been recently launched in that market segment which is why sales of it are rapidly falling
    Spy shots of the new Juke were in the auto press last week.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Scott_P said:
    I have complete confidence that any Corbyn government will make May’s premiership look golden by comparison.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited March 2019

    Top excuses that aren't Brexit?

    Diesel.
    They wuz going to do it anyway.
    EU-Japan free trade deal.
    Global uncertainty.

    Any more?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1102965059611955200

    It’s most unusual that it’s happening at the same time. What an eerie coincidence!
    It’s almost as if there’s some kind of government policy to de-industrialise.
    More nothing to do with Brexit news.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1102921190526590977?s=21
    and hows that different to when PSA closed their factory in Coventry and transferred all the production to Slovakia in 2006 ?
    We'll have to give you that that wasn't anything to do with Brexit. But why do you bring it up?
    I bring it up because factory closures in automotive downturns are the norm and because factory closures have been the nrom when in the EU. Those yelliing loudest are the same people who told people in the Midlands and North to suck it up and then got sulky when large swathes of the industrial belt voted out.
    Factory closures are a normal part of business life. It's a competitive world. The point about Brexit is it makes us less competitive, so factory closures will result. And are doing.
    This self evident truth is hotly denied by Mr Alanbrooke who spends all his time complaining about the decline of manufacturing while supporting a policy that fucks manufacturing.
    the policies that facked manufacturing have been in place for the last 20 years, Brexit is simply one of the consequences.
    Ironically, I agree with you.
    Just disagree vigorously that Brexit is gonna help.

    In fact, I see little from either Leave OR Remain on any practical thinking post-Brexit to address the long neglect of manufacturing in this country.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    rcs1000 said:

    Peterborough is Crosby

    This is deluded. The TIGgers are not going to sweep Brexit-y Peterborough or Newport West.

    Two lost deposits is much more likely.
    In First Past the Post, they could win on a very modest vote share.

    Imagine that the LibDems don't stand, but that there is Labour, Conservative, UKIP and the Brexit Party. This means that even if 70% of the electorate made clear their preference for Brexit, TIG could be elected on 30% of the vote.

    Likely?
    No. But perfectly possible. I'd want the LibDems to decide not to stand, and 8-1.
    I sometimes have the feeling that you are a bit out of touch, Mr Smithson (Jr).
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    RoyalBlue said:

    Scott_P said:
    I have complete confidence that any Corbyn government will make May’s premiership look golden by comparison.
    Corbyn - and the small clique around him - actually scare me more than Brexit.
  • You know who else had their appeal rejected?

    Jesus Christ.

    You know who was behind the tainted legal process?

    The Jews.

    I wish satire wasn't this easy.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    RoyalBlue said:

    Scott_P said:
    I have complete confidence that any Corbyn government will make May’s premiership look golden by comparison.
    Corbyn - and the small clique around him - actually scare me more than Brexit.
    Unfortunate, as we may still get both.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    Top excuses that aren't Brexit?

    Diesel.
    They wuz going to do it anyway.
    EU-Japan free trade deal.
    Global uncertainty.

    Any more?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1102965059611955200

    It’s most unusual that it’s happening at the same time. What an eerie coincidence!
    It’s almost as if there’s some kind of government policy to de-industrialise.
    More nothing to do with Brexit news.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1102921190526590977?s=21
    and hows that different to when PSA closed their factory in Coventry and transferred all the production to Slovakia in 2006 ?
    We'll have to give you that that wasn't anything to do with Brexit. But why do you bring it up?
    I bring it up because factory closures in automotive downturns are the norm and because factory closures have been the nrom when in the EU. Those yelliing loudest are the same people who told people in the Midlands and North to suck it up and then got sulky when large swathes of the industrial belt voted out.
    Factory closures are a normal part of business life. It's a competitive world. The point about Brexit is it makes us less competitive, so factory closures will result. And are doing.
    This self evident truth is hotly denied by Mr Alanbrooke who spends all his time complaining about the decline of manufacturing while supporting a policy that fucks manufacturing.
    the policies that facked manufacturing have been in place for the last 20 years, Brexit is simply one of the consequences.
    Ironically, I agree with you.
    Just disagree vigorously that Brexit is gonna help.

    In fact, I see little from either Leave OR Remain on any practical thinking post-Brexit to address the long neglect of manufacturing in this country.
    Short term Brexit isnt going to help, thats not the first time Ive said that either. Longer term I remain more optimistic since it will crash the system which ignores large swathes of the UK and as you have rightly pointed out force people to address more of our underlying problems,

    Manufacturing to be clear will be lucky to hold on to jobs as greater automation takes over UK politicians bar a bit of window dressing havent even got their heads round what they need to do,
  • RoyalBlue said:

    Scott_P said:
    I have complete confidence that any Corbyn government will make May’s premiership look golden by comparison.
    Not if she achieves Brexit it won't. No bogeyman stories will ever wash, even if there is any substance in them.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,773

    RoyalBlue said:

    Scott_P said:
    I have complete confidence that any Corbyn government will make May’s premiership look golden by comparison.
    Corbyn - and the small clique around him - actually scare me more than Brexit.
    It is difficult to know how much of this is Lefties talking crap to impress each other or this is their real thinking.

    I think it was Hannah Arendt who said one should always actually listen to what fascists say and write, and take it at face value.

    On that advise, you are likely correct.

    Grim times.

    And difficult to believe the Labour party of all entities is hatching this terrible virus.
  • RoyalBlue said:

    Scott_P said:
    I have complete confidence that any Corbyn government will make May’s premiership look golden by comparison.
    Corbyn - and the small clique around him - actually scare me more than Brexit.
    We’re going to get both.

    I’ve been prepared for that for a while.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406

    eek said:

    Scott_P said:
    It's thousands of jobs - As I will continually repeat there is 1 model not being mentioned in any reporting that is due to be launched later this year yet has been delayed...

    That model is also 10 years old and far better cars have been recently launched in that market segment which is why sales of it are rapidly falling
    Spy shots of the new Juke were in the auto press last week.
    Yes and it should have been launched in Geneva - it's not. Equally where is it being built?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    Scott_P said:
    as ever no context

    inter Irish trade is less than the turnover of Nissan Sunderland
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    inter Irish trade is less than the turnover of Nissan Sunderland

    not for long...
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    Scott_P said:

    inter Irish trade is less than the turnover of Nissan Sunderland

    not for long...
    unlikely
  • Further proof of Project Fear becoming Project Reality.

    Big hugs for all those who had already pinned this on the Muslims.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1102993361345171456
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    RoyalBlue said:

    Scott_P said:
    I have complete confidence that any Corbyn government will make May’s premiership look golden by comparison.
    Corbyn - and the small clique around him - actually scare me more than Brexit.
    It is difficult to know how much of this is Lefties talking crap to impress each other or this is their real thinking.

    I think it was Hannah Arendt who said one should always actually listen to what fascists say and write, and take it at face value.

    On that advise, you are likely correct.

    Grim times.

    And difficult to believe the Labour party of all entities is hatching this terrible virus.
    Remind me again which party Mosley and Beckett were MPs for before 1931?
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    Scott_P said:
    as ever no context

    inter Irish trade is less than the turnover of Nissan Sunderland
    My turnover is probably less than the Nissan canteen's. But it is still quite important to me.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Disappointing news from Nissan. MPs need to get on and sign the WA.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    Further proof of Project Fear becoming Project Reality.

    Big hugs for all those who had already pinned this on the Muslims.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1102993361345171456

    Are you saying there are no muslims in Ireland ?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Further proof of Project Fear becoming Project Reality.

    Big hugs for all those who had already pinned this on the Muslims.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1102993361345171456

    All we need now is for a letter bomb to arrive at Berlaymont with a postmark from East Belfast and we'll have the set.
  • Further proof of Project Fear becoming Project Reality.

    Big hugs for all those who had already pinned this on the Muslims.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1102993361345171456

    Are you saying there are no muslims in Ireland ?
    Last time I was in Belfast I think I doubled the number of Muslims in Ireland.

    The natives kept on staring at me.

    I don't think they were paying attention to my Louis Vuitton loafers.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    Further proof of Project Fear becoming Project Reality.

    Big hugs for all those who had already pinned this on the Muslims.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1102993361345171456

    Not that I like to speculate on things like this, but my guess earlier today was NI related.

    Secondly, I hope you're not going to start cheering on terrorism because you don't like Brexit.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Scott_P said:
    It's thousands of jobs - As I will continually repeat there is 1 model not being mentioned in any reporting that is due to be launched later this year yet has been delayed...

    That model is also 10 years old and far better cars have been recently launched in that market segment which is why sales of it are rapidly falling
    Spy shots of the new Juke were in the auto press last week.
    Yes and it should have been launched in Geneva - it's not. Equally where is it being built?
    If they want to meet the launch deadline of mid 2019 then it can only be built here. If they announce another delay of 12 to 18 months to that it may be built in Spain.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    Top excuses that aren't Brexit?

    Diesel.
    They wuz going to do it anyway.
    EU-Japan free trade deal.
    Global uncertainty.

    Any more?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1102965059611955200

    .
    More nothing to do with Brexit news.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1102921190526590977?s=21
    and hows that different to when PSA closed their factory in Coventry and transferred all the production to Slovakia in 2006 ?
    We'll have to give you that that wasn't anything to do with Brexit. But why do you bring it up?
    I bring it up because factory closures in automotive downturns are the norm and because factory closures have been the nrom when in the EU. Those yelliing loudest are the same people who told people in the Midlands and North to suck it up and then got sulky when large swathes of the industrial belt voted out.
    Factory closures are a normal part of business life. It's a competitive world. The point about Brexit is it makes us less competitive, so factory closures will result. And are doing.
    This self evident truth is hotly denied by Mr Alanbrooke who spends all his time complaining about the decline of manufacturing while supporting a policy that fucks manufacturing.
    the policies that facked manufacturing have been in place for the last 20 years, Brexit is simply one of the consequences.
    Ironically, I agree with you.
    Just disagree vigorously that Brexit is gonna help.

    In fact, I see little from either Leave OR Remain on any practical thinking post-Brexit to address the long neglect of manufacturing in this country.
    Short term Brexit isnt going to help, thats not the first time Ive said that either. Longer term I remain more optimistic since it will crash the system which ignores large swathes of the UK and as you have rightly pointed out force people to address more of our underlying problems,

    Manufacturing to be clear will be lucky to hold on to jobs as greater automation takes over UK politicians bar a bit of window dressing havent even got their heads round what they need to do,
    Even if we dispense with manual labour altogether, manufacturing will still be influenced by economies of scale. So if we are outside the biggest and richest single market in the world rather than inside it we are going to be less competitive.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    Scott_P said:
    as ever no context

    inter Irish trade is less than the turnover of Nissan Sunderland
    My turnover is probably less than the Nissan canteen's. But it is still quite important to me.
    Absolutely

    in a nutshell thats why a lot of people voted to Leave
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Scott_P said:
    Did they also vote for perfect sunshine the next time Wales visit Murrayfield?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,193
    I don't think the allegations against Trudeau are any more than made against Trump and even if he did act wrongly the actions were to save thousands of jobs
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    Scott_P said:
    as ever no context

    inter Irish trade is less than the turnover of Nissan Sunderland
    But since both are threatened by Brexit does it matter which is largest?
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    Scott_P said:
    as ever no context

    inter Irish trade is less than the turnover of Nissan Sunderland
    My turnover is probably less than the Nissan canteen's. But it is still quite important to me.
    Absolutely

    in a nutshell thats why a lot of people voted to Leave
    To put themselves out of business?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    HYUFD said:

    I don't think the allegations against Trudeau are any more than made against Trump
    Breaking news - if they're as bad as the allegations against Trump, he should not resign, he should be fired from Morris Dancer's space cannon.

    While eating a pineapple pizza.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    Top excuses that aren't Brexit?

    Diesel.
    They wuz going to do it anyway.
    EU-Japan free trade deal.
    Global uncertainty.

    Any more?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1102965059611955200

    .
    More nothing to do with Brexit news.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1102921190526590977?s=21
    and hows that different to when PSA closed their factory in Coventry and transferred all the production to Slovakia in 2006 ?
    We'll have to give you that that wasn't anything to do with Brexit. But why do you bring it up?
    I bring it up because factory closures in automotive downturns are the norm and because factory closures have been the nrom when in the EU. Those yelliing loudest are the same people who told people in the Midlands and North to suck it up and then got sulky when large swathes of the industrial belt voted out.
    Factory closures are a normal part of business life. It's a competitive world. The point about Brexit is it makes us less competitive, so factory closures will result. And are doing.
    This self evident truth is hotly denied by Mr Alanbrooke who spends all his time complaining about the decline of manufacturing while supporting a policy that fucks manufacturing.
    the policies that facked manufacturing have been in place for the last 20 years, Brexit is simply one of the consequences.
    Ironically, I agree with you.
    Just disagree vigorously that Brexit is gonna help.

    In fact, I see little from either Leave OR Remain on any practical thinking post-Brexit to address the long neglect of manufacturing in this country.
    Short term Brexit isnt going to help, thats no need to do,
    Even if we dispense with manual labour altogether, manufacturing will still be influenced by economies of scale. So if we are outside the biggest and richest single market in the world rather than inside it we are going to be less competitive.
    No manufacturing is increasingly head towards customised manufacture as increased IT use leads to greater flexibility. Batch sizes of 1 may become a future norm

    To run that you need a highly skilled work force and po0licies designed to reduce fixed costs to a minimum.
  • tlg86 said:

    Further proof of Project Fear becoming Project Reality.

    Big hugs for all those who had already pinned this on the Muslims.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1102993361345171456

    Not that I like to speculate on things like this, but my guess earlier today was NI related.

    Secondly, I hope you're not going to start cheering on terrorism because you don't like Brexit.
    I never cheer on terrorism, there's a particular circle of hell for those who risk the Irish peace process for Brexit.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Scott_P said:
    It's thousands of jobs - As I will continually repeat there is 1 model not being mentioned in any reporting that is due to be launched later this year yet has been delayed...

    That model is also 10 years old and far better cars have been recently launched in that market segment which is why sales of it are rapidly falling
    Spy shots of the new Juke were in the auto press last week.
    Yes and it should have been launched in Geneva - it's not. Equally where is it being built?
    If they want to meet the launch deadline of mid 2019 then it can only be built here. If they announce another delay of 12 to 18 months to that it may be built in Spain.
    It's not being launched in mid 2019....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    HYUFD said:

    I don't think the allegations against Trudeau are any more than made against Trump and even if he did act wrongly the actions were to save thousands of jobs
    Would it be ok to act wrongly to save merely hundreds of jobs? How wrong is it ok to be to save hundreds of thousands of jobs?

    Certainly we are generally content to look the other way in working with horrible people and places, possibly with plenty of bribery, for the sake of jobs, but given you are very explicit that it is ok to act wrongly for that reason, I do think we should know just how wrong it is ok to be for how much.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,136

    Top excuses that aren't Brexit?

    Diesel.
    They wuz going to do it anyway.
    EU-Japan free trade deal.
    Global uncertainty.

    Any more?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1102965059611955200

    It’s most unusual that it’s happening at the same time. What an eerie coincidence!
    It’s almost as if there’s some kind of government policy to de-industrialise.
    More nothing to do with Brexit news.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1102921190526590977?s=21
    and hows that different to when PSA closed their factory in Coventry and transferred all the production to Slovakia in 2006 ?
    Well, the cause would appear to be different.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,275
    rcs1000 said:

    Mr. Divvie, are you suggesting that declining diesel sales and the EU-Japan FTA have had no impact?

    You might argue that the UK (perhaps) leaving the EU is the biggest factor, but pretending the others don't exist or are negligible is wearing blinkers.

    There are multiple factors.

    Anyone who says that Brexit is the only one is deluded. Anyone who claims "it's nothing to do with Brexit" is deluded.

    The good news is that it's now possible to tell who are the complete idiots on here, by their refusal to admit that the real world is a complex place.
    Perhaps along with those who thought they were voting for Norway ?

  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Will be interesting to see how the DUP vote on the no deal motion .

    If they support a no deal then that confirms they don’t give a toss for the people in NI .
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,136

    Scott_P said:
    as ever no context

    inter Irish trade is less than the turnover of Nissan Sunderland
    An unfortunate comparator given the situation.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    MaxPB said:

    Disappointing news from Nissan. MPs need to get on and sign the WA.

    Mps aren't going to sign it - that's been obvious for a while. May needs (at a minimum) more Labour rebels than ERG members who still vote against and there isn't going to be enough of those.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Disappointing news from Nissan. MPs need to get on and sign the WA.

    Mps aren't going to sign it - that's been obvious for a while. May needs (at a minimum) more Labour rebels than ERG members who still vote against and there isn't going to be enough of those.
    It's as it has been for a long time - no deal or revoke. If pushing it right to the March deadline isn't enough to scare enough Lab rebels or ERG to back the deal then nothing is going to.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,773
    nico67 said:

    Will be interesting to see how the DUP vote on the no deal motion .

    If they support a no deal then that confirms they don’t give a toss for the people in NI .

    And thereby hastening a single Ireland referendum.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,136
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_P said:
    Did they also vote for perfect sunshine the next time Wales visit Murrayfield?
    "Sunlit uplands"
  • kle4 said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Disappointing news from Nissan. MPs need to get on and sign the WA.

    Mps aren't going to sign it - that's been obvious for a while. May needs (at a minimum) more Labour rebels than ERG members who still vote against and there isn't going to be enough of those.
    It's as it has been for a long time - no deal or revoke. If pushing it right to the March deadline isn't enough to scare enough Lab rebels or ERG to back the deal then nothing is going to.
    Wouldn't it be Delay? May's style is to kick the can down the road whenever she can, and it's likely the EU would accept that rather than take the hit of No Deal.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    edited March 2019
    One for next year's PCC elections. The Tories are ditching their incumbent in Surrey:

    https://twitter.com/DavidJMunro/status/1102708107967430658

    https://twitter.com/CharChirico/status/1102192974396645376
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Brexit isn’t the only issue facing car makers but it can turn a viable operation into a non viable one .

    Much depends on the future trading relationship but given the long lead times for investment decisions having to be made now can’t rely on hope versus reality .

This discussion has been closed.