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SystemSystem Posts: 12,611
edited February 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Those claiming that the “will of the people” equates to no deal should be treated like snake oil salesmen

Any politician trying to assert that what they propose, as we enter the final month of Article 50 process, is the “will of the people” should be treated like a snake oil salesman.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,322
    first.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Bear in mind you are talking about people who can say with a straight face that holding a national plebiscite is the ultimate affront to democracy.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    edited February 2019
    Yebbut mine was substantive (without editing)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,193
    https://twitter.com/willjleader/status/1100692665748852736
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    This all depends on what people understand is meant by "access to the single market"?

    Does that necessarily equate to membership, or is there a way that we can be outside and have some degree of preferential access?

    I suppose you can argue that the offered alternative implies that Freedom of Movement would be the price of this access, which does suggest that it equates more or less to membership of the single market, but it is these sort of textual inconsistencies that have been a feature of the Brexit "debate".
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,193
    Do it Labour.

    https://twitter.com/liamyoung/status/1100391400217153536
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    From the header; I cannot find a similar poll from the immediate post-referendum period that looks as the expectations of voters at the time. One thing is clear – the idea of a no deal was not contemplated.

    If the first sentence is true, how can the second sentence be true?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,218
    I am still puzzled by how it is possible to be excessively opposed to antisemitism.

    Williamson - either feck off and join the SWP or expect to be kicked out of the Labour Party.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,543
    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/willjleader/status/1100692665748852736

    It is scary looking at this stuff how many people claim it is nothing more than a vast conspiracy against Project Messiah.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,193
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/willjleader/status/1100692665748852736

    It is scary looking at this stuff how many people claim it is nothing more than a vast conspiracy against Project Messiah.
    Who knew how many utter loons the UK has? Really depressing.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,189
    If Tom Watson can’t find a way to get Chris Williamson suspended before the end of the day PMQs, then there’s probably a few more MPs resigning from the party today.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    In other news....Pakistan airspace is closed to civilian traffic so many flights from the UK to South East Asia will be having longer tracks - looks like this morning's SQ LHR flight was turned back at the border and routed south of Pakistan and over the Gulf.

    On topic - there is a small (10%?) minority of Brexit zealots who would be happy with 'no deal' - but nearly half the population (Remain voters) want to maintain close economic links with the EU, and most Leave voters are pretty agnostic on the matter and do want good relations with the EU afterwards - thats why May's deal is probably the least bad show in town.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,193
    SandyRentool said:

    I am still puzzled by how it is possible to be excessively opposed to antisemitism.

    Williamson - either feck off and join the SWP or expect to be kicked out of the Labour Party.

    A bit of light jew-bating before lunch is ok by the sounds of it.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1100699639181991936
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,193
    https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1100699639181991936
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    rottenborough said:

    Do it Labour.

    https://twitter.com/liamyoung/status/1100391400217153536

    We are 733 hours from Brexit-hour and the Labour Party needs an internal argument about whether it is more urgent to throw out Tony Blair than Chris Williamson like it needs to have a hole in the head.

    I'd be surprised if this doesn't take hold for the next 36 hours.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/RobFrancis82/status/1100527880579235840
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,193
    Williamson loses whip? Is this the moment Labour finally implodes on its own contradictions and huge cavernous divide?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,543
    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1100699639181991936

    And where is Jezza in all of this. Leadership and all that.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,495
    On topic. Mike is absolutely right. It wasn't just the Comres polling that showed this view either. YouGov in June 2016, just prior to the referendum, also showed 42% of Leave voters prioritising Single Market access over restricting immigration.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,193
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/RobFrancis82/status/1100527880579235840

    Be interesting to see how many of them clapping have spent years door knocking and doing leaflets, rather than just joining for £3 to support Jezza and attack jews.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,758
    OblitusSumMe said:

    rottenborough said:

    Do it Labour.

    https://twitter.com/liamyoung/status/1100391400217153536

    We are 733 hours from Brexit-hour and the Labour Party needs an internal argument about whether it is more urgent to throw out Tony Blair than Chris Williamson like it needs to have a hole in the head.

    I'd be surprised if this doesn't take hold for the next 36 hours.
    OTOH a Grand Bargain where you threw out both of them would be unifying and cathartic
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,189
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1100699639181991936

    And where is Jezza in all of this. Leadership and all that.
    Standing right behind Chris Williamson and applauding his comments?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,798
    Mr. Urquhart, I believe when it comes to Corbyn and leadership the official line is that he's present, but not involved.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,193
    OblitusSumMe said:

    rottenborough said:

    Do it Labour.

    https://twitter.com/liamyoung/status/1100391400217153536

    We are 733 hours from Brexit-hour and the Labour Party needs an internal argument about whether it is more urgent to throw out Tony Blair than Chris Williamson like it needs to have a hole in the head.

    I'd be surprised if this doesn't take hold for the next 36 hours.
    Maximum popcorn moment if Blair is kicked out. The headlines would be off the scale. And worldwide.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    42% of Leave voters responded by saying staying in the single market should be paramount.

    Up to a point, Lord Copper. The actual question was 'Maintaining Access to the Single Market' - which is not quite the same as staying in the single market.

    Hasn't there been some polling on 'trade offs' along the lines of:

    - 'staying in the single market even if that means keeping free movement'

    and

    - 'ending free movement even if that means leaving the single market'?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,193
    Sandpit said:

    If Tom Watson can’t find a way to get Chris Williamson suspended before the end of the day PMQs, then there’s probably a few more MPs resigning from the party today.

    Plus, May will have a nice line of attack to add to the: does he want a 2nd vote or not line.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    CarlottaVance said:

    In other news....Pakistan airspace is closed to civilian traffic so many flights from the UK to South East Asia will be having longer tracks - looks like this morning's SQ LHR flight was turned back at the border and routed south of Pakistan and over the Gulf.

    On topic - there is a small (10%?) minority of Brexit zealots who would be happy with 'no deal' - but nearly half the population (Remain voters) want to maintain close economic links with the EU, and most Leave voters are pretty agnostic on the matter and do want good relations with the EU afterwards - thats why May's deal is probably the least bad show in town.

    Leaving the EU without a deal is more popular than May's Deal in the opinion polls.

    https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-there-was-a-referendum-tomorrow-with-the-option-of-remaining-in-the-eu-accepting-the-governments-brexit-agreement-or-leaving-the-eu-without-a-deal-which-would-you-support-2-2/
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,193
    Not fast enough I'm afraid:

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1100689601386168321
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,695
    It's going to be great when Corbo makes Chris Williamson Home Secretary. It's going to be the ultimate political act of Verfremdungseffekt.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    OblitusSumMe said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    In other news....Pakistan airspace is closed to civilian traffic so many flights from the UK to South East Asia will be having longer tracks - looks like this morning's SQ LHR flight was turned back at the border and routed south of Pakistan and over the Gulf.

    On topic - there is a small (10%?) minority of Brexit zealots who would be happy with 'no deal' - but nearly half the population (Remain voters) want to maintain close economic links with the EU, and most Leave voters are pretty agnostic on the matter and do want good relations with the EU afterwards - thats why May's deal is probably the least bad show in town.

    Leaving the EU without a deal is more popular than May's Deal in the opinion polls.

    https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-there-was-a-referendum-tomorrow-with-the-option-of-remaining-in-the-eu-accepting-the-governments-brexit-agreement-or-leaving-the-eu-without-a-deal-which-would-you-support-2-2/
    And staying in the EU more popular than that.

    The ERG really have been very stupid.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,187
    edited February 2019
    The "Single Market" is a set of rules and regulations.
    Being a member allows a country to be involved in decisions about what those rules are. But every country on earth has access to the Single Market in that they can sell into Europe so long as they meet the said rules.
    Of course in setting the rules members are in effect setting non-tariff barriers to trade so as to protect domestic production. That may be an advantage to EU producers, but often enough at the cost of consumers within the EU.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/GuardianHeather/status/1100702721324314627
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Access to and staying in the single market are two different things. A free trade agreement would give access to the single market without staying in it.

    If you want to know what proportion of leavers want to stay in the single market ask them that!
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,322
    https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1100702657394679809

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1100703226029137921
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    geoffw said:

    The "Single Market" is a set of rules and regulations.
    Being a member allows a country to be involved in decisions about what those rules are. But every country on earth has access to the Single Market in the sense that they can sell into Europe so long as they meet the said rules.
    Of course in setting the rules members are in effect setting non-tariff barriers to trade so as to protect domestic production. That may be an advantage to EU producers, but often enough at the cost of consumers within the EU.

    This is a typically fallacious Brexit argument. Our internal market will always have regulation. Extending the scope of our internal market to cover the whole EU means a net decrease in non-tariff barriers.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,543
    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1100702657394679809

    Tough on antisemitism, tough on the causes of antisemitism....
  • hamiltonacehamiltonace Posts: 696
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    On topic. Mike is absolutely right. It wasn't just the Comres polling that showed this view either. YouGov in June 2016, just prior to the referendum, also showed 42% of Leave voters prioritising Single Market access over restricting immigration.

    Listening to Nige Farage on LBC is often the best way to understand the messages that the hard Brexiters will use. Last night had a 16 year old on the phone asking why they assumed the population would vote the same now when he was only 13 at the time and why unlike in Scotland he would not get a vote. Farage refused to engage with him.

    Farage expects a delay beyond June and is happy this will happen so he can start his new party with European elections. I predicted this 3 months ago and the next big betting event will be around the European elections with Farage, TIG added to the mix. Should be fun.


  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,193
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1100702657394679809

    Tough on antisemitism, tough on the causes of antisemitism....
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1100703226029137921

    Kaboom!!!!!
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,435
    Let’s be honest.

    Williamson needs to be suspended, but this is all too late in the day.

    Corbyn needs to resign.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,758
    CarlottaVance said:

    42% of Leave voters responded by saying staying in the single market should be paramount.

    Up to a point, Lord Copper. The actual question was 'Maintaining Access to the Single Market' - which is not quite the same as staying in the single market.

    Hasn't there been some polling on 'trade offs' along the lines of:

    - 'staying in the single market even if that means keeping free movement'

    and

    - 'ending free movement even if that means leaving the single market'?

    It's probably not worth thinking too hard about these nuances since most of the voters never understood them in the first place.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,193
    edited February 2019
    The Shadow Chief Whip will be key now. An old Brownite and presumably Watson chum in that case.

    Will he act?
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    On topic. Mike is absolutely right. It wasn't just the Comres polling that showed this view either. YouGov in June 2016, just prior to the referendum, also showed 42% of Leave voters prioritising Single Market access over restricting immigration.

    I think that, unfortunately, the political debate since the referendum has markedly changed public opinion away from what you might describe as the Centrist compromise that you favour.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,915
    CarlottaVance said:

    42% of Leave voters responded by saying staying in the single market should be paramount.

    Up to a point, Lord Copper. The actual question was 'Maintaining Access to the Single Market' - which is not quite the same as staying in the single market.

    Hasn't there been some polling on 'trade offs' along the lines of:

    - 'staying in the single market even if that means keeping free movement'

    and

    - 'ending free movement even if that means leaving the single market'?

    Not around the referendum, evidently.

    In any event, one thing which 'maintaining access to the single market' really can't mean, however you might try to parse it, is leaving without a deal.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,322
    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1100702644379795456

    Popcorn on order.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,557
    rottenborough said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/willjleader/status/1100692665748852736

    It is scary looking at this stuff how many people claim it is nothing more than a vast conspiracy against Project Messiah.
    Who knew how many utter loons the UK has? Really depressing.
    At least the 'net means MI5 don't have to do any work finding these shitheads. They just type away - and say "here I am...."

    Being given the whole of the world to talk at. They can show just how big they are, having opinions and that. It's like 13 year olds, having their first half dozen pints of snake-bite....
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    edmundintokyo said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    42% of Leave voters responded by saying staying in the single market should be paramount.

    Up to a point, Lord Copper. The actual question was 'Maintaining Access to the Single Market' - which is not quite the same as staying in the single market.

    Hasn't there been some polling on 'trade offs' along the lines of:

    - 'staying in the single market even if that means keeping free movement'

    and

    - 'ending free movement even if that means leaving the single market'?

    It's probably not worth thinking too hard about these nuances since most of the voters never understood them in the first place.
    Did leave campaigners?

    https://twitter.com/propertyspot/status/1100165462317563905?s=21
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,197
    WHERE ARE OUR JEZZA APOLOGISTS??

    At the moment it's super boring because we are all agreeing that Jezza and Williamson (and...and...) are all antisemitic c**ts and need to be thrown out of the Labour Party.

    But where's the fun in that? Where are @TheJezziah and @bjo and our very own @NickPalmer to explain to us why we have got it all wrong?

    Jeez...
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1100702644379795456

    Popcorn on order.

    Simulaneously the furthest Labour have ever gone in criticising Williamson AND well short of what they should have done.

    Surely in the last TWO YEARS Corbyn should have sat Williamson down and told him, old friend, this would be a good time to shut up?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,446
    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1100702657394679809

    It's hard to see what Williamson could do for Corbyn to force him out? Perhaps if we could get Williamson to say that Blair and Brown were actually good, solid Labour Party leaders? That should p*ss off Corbyn enough. ;)

    In all seriousness, there is a cancer at the heart of Labour - as we see occasionally on here.

    Not that the Conservatives should crow - they should be thankful that they have UKIP to take some (though not all) of the right-wing poison.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,189
    Odds on Ruth Smeeth resigning live on air in an hour or so?
    https://twitter.com/Emmabarnett/status/1100677904353116161
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,905
    TOPPING said:

    WHERE ARE OUR JEZZA APOLOGISTS??

    At the moment it's super boring because we are all agreeing that Jezza and Williamson (and...and...) are all antisemitic c**ts and need to be thrown out of the Labour Party.

    But where's the fun in that? Where are @TheJezziah and @bjo and our very own @NickPalmer to explain to us why we have got it all wrong?

    Jeez...

    *tumbleweed*
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,943
    TOPPING said:

    WHERE ARE OUR JEZZA APOLOGISTS??

    At the moment it's super boring because we are all agreeing that Jezza and Williamson (and...and...) are all antisemitic c**ts and need to be thrown out of the Labour Party.

    But where's the fun in that? Where are @TheJezziah and @bjo and our very own @NickPalmer to explain to us why we have got it all wrong?

    Jeez...

    kick out Blair :-)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,193
    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1100702644379795456

    Popcorn on order.

    Simulaneously the furthest Labour have ever gone in criticising Williamson AND well short of what they should have done.

    Surely in the last TWO YEARS Corbyn should have sat Williamson down and told him, old friend, this would be a good time to shut up?
    That's the kind of party management that Jezza doesn't do. He is more like Ho Chi Minh in his latter days. Others do all the work and the thinking.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,915
    OblitusSumMe said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    On topic. Mike is absolutely right. It wasn't just the Comres polling that showed this view either. YouGov in June 2016, just prior to the referendum, also showed 42% of Leave voters prioritising Single Market access over restricting immigration.

    I think that, unfortunately, the political debate since the referendum has markedly changed public opinion away from what you might describe as the Centrist compromise that you favour.
    And also swung in favour of remain to some extent.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    Sandpit said:

    Odds on Ruth Smeeth resigning live on air in an hour or so?
    https://twitter.com/Emmabarnett/status/1100677904353116161

    she was very clear last week she wanted to fight from within.

    wouldn't be surprised though if she demanded the whip withdrawn from him
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,446
    TOPPING said:

    WHERE ARE OUR JEZZA APOLOGISTS??

    At the moment it's super boring because we are all agreeing that Jezza and Williamson (and...and...) are all antisemitic c**ts and need to be thrown out of the Labour Party.

    But where's the fun in that? Where are @TheJezziah and @bjo and our very own @NickPalmer to explain to us why we have got it all wrong?

    Jeez...

    I wouldn't put Nick Palmer on the same level as BJO in his denial, and BJO on the same level as TheJezziah in his (ahem) interesting take on anti-Semitism. Or nastiness ...
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,800
    A mild slap on the wrist at the moment for Williamson....presumably for getting caught.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    edmundintokyo said:

    OblitusSumMe said:

    rottenborough said:

    Do it Labour.

    https://twitter.com/liamyoung/status/1100391400217153536

    We are 733 hours from Brexit-hour and the Labour Party needs an internal argument about whether it is more urgent to throw out Tony Blair than Chris Williamson like it needs to have a hole in the head.

    I'd be surprised if this doesn't take hold for the next 36 hours.
    OTOH a Grand Bargain where you threw out both of them would be unifying and cathartic
    They should totally have a cage match to determine which of them gets to stay. Who wouldn't pay to see a literal struggle for the soul of the party? End the war, and restore Labour's finances in one stroke. I can't see any downside.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,305
    Gardenwalker said:

    Let’s be honest.

    Williamson needs to be suspended, but this is all too late in the day.

    Corbyn needs to resign.

    170 odd labour mps need to join TIG in one go and rid the Country of Corbyn and his toxic cabal
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,942
    Hang on aren't we already paying for BBC content with the licence fee?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47383559
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,905
    edited February 2019
    rottenborough said:

    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1100702644379795456

    Popcorn on order.

    Simulaneously the furthest Labour have ever gone in criticising Williamson AND well short of what they should have done.

    Surely in the last TWO YEARS Corbyn should have sat Williamson down and told him, old friend, this would be a good time to shut up?
    That's the kind of party management that Jezza doesn't do. He is more like Ho Chi Minh in his latter days. Others do all the work and the thinking.
    All we're seeing here is what Milne thinks he can get away with.

    Captain Salad has neither the intelligence nor the common sense to do what is needed.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,197
    JosiasJessop said:

    TOPPING said:

    WHERE ARE OUR JEZZA APOLOGISTS??

    At the moment it's super boring because we are all agreeing that Jezza and Williamson (and...and...) are all antisemitic c**ts and need to be thrown out of the Labour Party.

    But where's the fun in that? Where are @TheJezziah and @bjo and our very own @NickPalmer to explain to us why we have got it all wrong?

    Jeez...

    I wouldn't put Nick Palmer on the same level as BJO in his denial, and BJO on the same level as TheJezziah in his (ahem) interesting take on anti-Semitism. Or nastiness ...
    I will of course let them speak for themselves but Nick portrays Jezza as a nice, honest, homely kind of guy with nary a bad word for anyone. I would be interested in his take on this all.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,543
    GIN1138 said:

    Hang on aren't we already paying for BBC content with the licence fee?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47383559

    They will claim that you have always had to pay for DVD box sets etc. But what it does is really highlight that the BBC funding model is broken for the modern age. It is unenforceable and is incompatible with the modern streaming world.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,193
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    Let’s be honest.

    Williamson needs to be suspended, but this is all too late in the day.

    Corbyn needs to resign.

    170 odd labour mps need to join TIG in one go and rid the Country of Corbyn and his toxic cabal
    With the world's strictest membership entry system. Otherwise they would just be taken over again by the lenin loons.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,187
    williamglenn said:

    geoffw said:

    The "Single Market" is a set of rules and regulations.
    Being a member allows a country to be involved in decisions about what those rules are. But every country on earth has access to the Single Market in the sense that they can sell into Europe so long as they meet the said rules.
    Of course in setting the rules members are in effect setting non-tariff barriers to trade so as to protect domestic production. That may be an advantage to EU producers, but often enough at the cost of consumers within the EU.

    This is a typically fallacious Brexit argument. Our internal market will always have regulation. Extending the scope of our internal market to cover the whole EU means a net decrease in non-tariff barriers.
    No. It's like trade creation and trade diversion in the case of tariffs. Expanding the scope of the Single Market to encompass more countries means that the non-tariff barriers facing non-members have become more extensive. Whether there's a net increase or decrease has to factor that in too.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,193
    Tweet of the day is in:

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/1100705999764275200
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,695
    JosiasJessop said:



    It's hard to see what Williamson could do for Corbyn to force him out?

    Saying the UK should stay in the EU should do the trick.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,942
    edited February 2019
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Hang on aren't we already paying for BBC content with the licence fee?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47383559

    They will claim that you have always had to pay for DVD box sets etc. But what it does is really highlight that the BBC funding model is broken for the modern age. It is unenforceable and is incompatible with the modern streaming world.
    Suspect they will start putting content that is already paid for by the licence fee (they cite Luther and Line Of Duty in the article for example) on BritBox first thus getting two lots of revenue for the same content. :D

    Then like you say there's the DVD sales and the money they get from selling the rights to other countries plus various spin-off and merchandise profits...

    #kerching #kerching #kerching :D
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,189
    GIN1138 said:

    Hang on aren't we already paying for BBC content with the licence fee?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47383559

    I’d pay a fiver a month - if they’d let me. Can’t see anyone in the UK being too interested though.

    Streaming market fragmentation, as is already happening in the US, is driving piracy rates higher again.
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    Alanbrooke said:

    TOPPING said:

    WHERE ARE OUR JEZZA APOLOGISTS??

    At the moment it's super boring because we are all agreeing that Jezza and Williamson (and...and...) are all antisemitic c**ts and need to be thrown out of the Labour Party.

    But where's the fun in that? Where are @TheJezziah and @bjo and our very own @NickPalmer to explain to us why we have got it all wrong?

    Jeez...

    kick out Blair :-)
    image
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,593
    According to last week's journalist buzz we are due another batch of Labour defections this week. Today would be a good moment to choose.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    GIN1138 said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Hang on aren't we already paying for BBC content with the licence fee?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47383559

    They will claim that you have always had to pay for DVD box sets etc. But what it does is really highlight that the BBC funding model is broken for the modern age. It is unenforceable and is incompatible with the modern streaming world.
    Suspect they will start putting content that is already paid for by the licence fee (they cite Luther and Line Of Duty in the article for example) on BritBox first thus getting two lots of revenue for the same content. :D

    Then like you say there's the DVD sales and the money they get from selling the rights to other countries plus various spin-off and merchandise profits...

    #kerching #kerching #kerching :D
    Then they could afford to build a permanent studio on College Green!
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    Let’s be honest.

    Williamson needs to be suspended, but this is all too late in the day.

    Corbyn needs to resign.

    170 odd labour mps need to join TIG in one go and rid the Country of Corbyn and his toxic cabal
    With the world's strictest membership entry system. Otherwise they would just be taken over again by the lenin loons.
    No need. Just don't let them directly elect the leader.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,446
    In F1 news, Vettel's had a big off during testing. He's been taken to the medical facility, but Ferrari say he's fine. Looks like a mechanical failure.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    BannedInParis said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    TOPPING said:

    WHERE ARE OUR JEZZA APOLOGISTS??

    At the moment it's super boring because we are all agreeing that Jezza and Williamson (and...and...) are all antisemitic c**ts and need to be thrown out of the Labour Party.

    But where's the fun in that? Where are @TheJezziah and @bjo and our very own @NickPalmer to explain to us why we have got it all wrong?

    Jeez...

    kick out Blair :-)
    image
    Meercat? Isn't that Theresa's online avatar?
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    If they do ditch Chris Williamson, there would surely have to be a by-election, right?

    right?
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    TudorRose said:

    BannedInParis said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    TOPPING said:

    WHERE ARE OUR JEZZA APOLOGISTS??

    At the moment it's super boring because we are all agreeing that Jezza and Williamson (and...and...) are all antisemitic c**ts and need to be thrown out of the Labour Party.

    But where's the fun in that? Where are @TheJezziah and @bjo and our very own @NickPalmer to explain to us why we have got it all wrong?

    Jeez...

    kick out Blair :-)
    image
    Meercat? Isn't that Theresa's online avatar?
    'brilliant'.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,543
    edited February 2019
    Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Hang on aren't we already paying for BBC content with the licence fee?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47383559

    I’d pay a fiver a month - if they’d let me. Can’t see anyone in the UK being too interested though.

    Streaming market fragmentation, as is already happening in the US, is driving piracy rates higher again.
    They aren't learning.....the reason Spotify has worked in terms of much reducing music piracy, is pretty much 99% of the music content (and increasingly podcasts) are located in one place, so for £5-10 a month you do nothing more than one click on a single app for all your audio entertainment.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    rottenborough said:

    Tweet of the day is in:

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/1100705999764275200

    #JezzahDoesNotStandWithChrisWilliamson takes some digesting.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,942
    edited February 2019
    IanB2 said:

    According to last week's journalist buzz we are due another batch of Labour defections this week. Today would be a good moment to choose.

    Defections do seem to have fizzled out since Soubry and co joined TIG....
  • blueburnblueburn Posts: 14
    I thing the snake oil salesmen are peddling an opinion poll done two-and-a-half years ago!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,584
    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1100702644379795456

    Popcorn on order.

    Simulaneously the furthest Labour have ever gone in criticising Williamson AND well short of what they should have done.

    Surely in the last TWO YEARS Corbyn should have sat Williamson down and told him, old friend, this would be a good time to shut up?
    Perhaps he'd seen how well the same trick had worked with Ken.
  • notme2notme2 Posts: 1,006
    All parties present the other side as a threat to something or other. But watching how the Corbynist left behave it feels like so many red flags. How dissent is dealt with, how the truth is whatever the speaker wants it to be and can be turned 180degrees without a blink or flicker, how the very worst bad behaviour can be justified and covered over if the person who does it shares the necessary values.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    blueburn said:

    I thing the snake oil salesmen are peddling an opinion poll done two-and-a-half years ago!

    Mike is adducing an opinion poll done two-and-a-half years ago, expressly as evidence of what people thought two-and-a-half years ago. Could you clarify your point, please?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,189
    JosiasJessop said:

    In F1 news, Vettel's had a big off during testing. He's been taken to the medical facility, but Ferrari say he's fine. Looks like a mechanical failure.

    BBC saying he’s back in the garage now, so just a precautionary checkup with the doc. Car went straight on at Turn 3
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,905
    Amazed at how many Corbynista scouse grandparents there are on Twitter slagging off and 'but Israel'-ing anyone who dares to criticise Williamson. Where do they all come from?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,584
    edited February 2019
    GIN1138 said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Hang on aren't we already paying for BBC content with the licence fee?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47383559

    They will claim that you have always had to pay for DVD box sets etc. But what it does is really highlight that the BBC funding model is broken for the modern age. It is unenforceable and is incompatible with the modern streaming world.
    Suspect they will start putting content that is already paid for by the licence fee (they cite Luther and Line Of Duty in the article for example) on BritBox first thus getting two lots of revenue for the same content. :D

    Then like you say there's the DVD sales and the money they get from selling the rights to other countries plus various spin-off and merchandise profits...

    #kerching #kerching #kerching :D
    They've maybe overestimated the current brand value of the prefix Brit- in the international market, unless they're hoping to flog a lot of comedy.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,695
    AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

    Amazed at how many Corbynista scouse grandparents there are on Twitter slagging off and 'but Israel'-ing anyone who dares to criticise Williamson. Where do they all come from?

    The Twitter API via some Python code and St. Petersburg.

  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,187
    AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

    Amazed at how many Corbynista scouse grandparents there are on Twitter slagging off and 'but Israel'-ing anyone who dares to criticise Williamson. Where do they all come from?

    Isn't the answer in your first sentence?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    Theuniondivvie said:

    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1100702644379795456

    Popcorn on order.

    Simulaneously the furthest Labour have ever gone in criticising Williamson AND well short of what they should have done.

    Surely in the last TWO YEARS Corbyn should have sat Williamson down and told him, old friend, this would be a good time to shut up?
    Perhaps he'd seen how well the same trick had worked with Ken.
    I truly think he is the new Ken.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,446
    Whilst I've been utterly failing to get anything done this morning, this song came up on my playlist, and I would like to dedicate it to Chris Williamson:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8VZX4sHn-4

    (I'm unsure quite what lefty Ms Allen would think of this...)
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,905
    edited February 2019
    Dura_Ace said:

    AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

    Amazed at how many Corbynista scouse grandparents there are on Twitter slagging off and 'but Israel'-ing anyone who dares to criticise Williamson. Where do they all come from?

    The Twitter API via some Python code and St. Petersburg.

    Yes, there appears to be far more of them than the entire population of Liverpool.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,189
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Hang on aren't we already paying for BBC content with the licence fee?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47383559

    I’d pay a fiver a month - if they’d let me. Can’t see anyone in the UK being too interested though.

    Streaming market fragmentation, as is already happening in the US, is driving piracy rates higher again.
    They aren't learning.....the reason Spotify has worked in terms of much reducing music piracy, is pretty much 99% of the music content (and increasingly podcasts) are located in one place, so for £5-10 a month you do nothing more than one click on a single app for all your audio entertainment.
    Indeed. The audio streaming market works well because all the content is there, whether you subscribe to Spotify, Tidal, Apple Music, Android Music or Amazon Music.

    The video streaming market (in the US) now has Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, HBO and soon Disney, all touting exclusive content. People aren’t going to go back to paying $60 a month for TV, that was the reason they cut the cable cord in the first place!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,966
    https://twitter.com/SayeedaWarsi/status/1100061399701692416
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,446
    bigjohnowls said:

    https://twitter.com/SayeedaWarsi/status/1100061399701692416

    Look! Squirrel!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1100709405534887936
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/alanbeattie/status/1100710756088193025
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,966
    JosiasJessop said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    https://twitter.com/SayeedaWarsi/status/1100061399701692416

    Look! Squirrel!
    Sayeeda Warsi
    ‏
    Verified account

    @SayeedaWarsi
    Feb 25
    More Sayeeda Warsi Retweeted Sayeeda Warsi
    Conservative voters in @hopenothate report - State of Hate @BrandonLewis
    - 42% believe Robinson highlights issues ignored by media
    - 47% falsely believe there are no-go areas where sharia law dominates & non-Muslims can't enter
    - 49% see Islam as a threat 2British way of life
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