Is this why TIG have not formed a party? As long as polls like this they can make the argument of get rid of Corbyn and we will rejoin and then Labour have a chance of winning again. The withdrawal method applied to politics.
I think that is right. The Labour TIGgers are hoping to rejoin. That is why there is no TIG party.
The 3 Tory TIGgers have been suckered.
Allen, at least, seems to be very disgusted with the Tories on many things, I doubt she would be concerned if Tig falls apart and she cannot go back. The other two I do not know, but frankly most of the splitters seem keen to stress they are still Labour/Tory at heart it is the others who have changed, so I don't think they are that committed necessarily to a new project, if it achieves its aim of influencing the others to prevent Brexit.
My prediction on the night they left was Allen/Wollaston would join the LivDems and Soubry would become a Tory peer. I see no reason to change
Anna Soubry will never become a Tory peer. What conceivable Conservative Leader would ever want to ennoble her?
Seriously, why does Corbyn just not come out for a referendum tomorrow? I know I know, leave voters in the north and all that, but his party really really wants to remain and he can still be lukewarm and see leave occur with a referendum if he is lucky. I really don't see a downside for him given he really might lose lots more MPs over this.
Is this why TIG have not formed a party? As long as polls like this they can make the argument of get rid of Corbyn and we will rejoin and then Labour have a chance of winning again. The withdrawal method applied to politics.
I think that is right. The Labour TIGgers are hoping to rejoin. That is why there is no TIG party.
The 3 Tory TIGgers have been suckered.
Allen, at least, seems to be very disgusted with the Tories on many things, I doubt she would be concerned if Tig falls apart and she cannot go back. The other two I do not know, but frankly most of the splitters seem keen to stress they are still Labour/Tory at heart it is the others who have changed, so I don't think they are that committed necessarily to a new project, if it achieves its aim of influencing the others to prevent Brexit.
My prediction on the night they left was Allen/Wollaston would join the LivDems and Soubry would become a Tory peer. I see no reason to change
Anna Soubry will never become a Tory peer. What conceivable Conservative Leader would ever want to ennoble her?
Is this why TIG have not formed a party? As long as polls like this they can make the argument of get rid of Corbyn and we will rejoin and then Labour have a chance of winning again. The withdrawal method applied to politics.
I think that is right. The Labour TIGgers are hoping to rejoin. That is why there is no TIG party.
The 3 Tory TIGgers have been suckered.
Allen, at least, seems to be very disgusted with the Tories on many things, I doubt she would be concerned if Tig falls apart and she cannot go back. The other two I do not know, but frankly most of the splitters seem keen to stress they are still Labour/Tory at heart it is the others who have changed, so I don't think they are that committed necessarily to a new project, if it achieves its aim of influencing the others to prevent Brexit.
My prediction on the night they left was Allen/Wollaston would join the LivDems and Soubry would become a Tory peer. I see no reason to change
Anna Soubry will never become a Tory peer. What conceivable Conservative Leader would ever want to ennoble her?
Dominic Grieve?
Pray, guide me through your logic on how Grieve becomes Tory Leader.
TBH I am surprised Labour only get up to 40% in that without Corbyn poll when people can imagine whatever leader and set of policies they want...
If they aren't left wing good luck getting 40%...
I suspect - as happened in early 2017 - that the effect of this week's news has been to shift a good chunk of the Labour vote to Don't Know. Whether it would remain there in the course of a general election matter.
There was no TIG in 2017 and many Remainers then mistakenly hoped voting for Corbyn Labour would stop Brexit, they will not repeat that mistake
There would be no TIG at an election held within the next three months either. Labour's strong performance in 2017 had very little to do with Brexit but rather Corbyn's success in raising issues which voters found much more directly relevant to their daily lives.
That was then. This is now. Corbyn is toxic
Two years ago you would have said likewise. Remember the Copeland by election in late February 2017?
Not interested in the past. Everything has changed and Corbyn has been exposed and is toxic for labour
Labour's only hope is to get rid of Corbyn and his anti semitic marxist cabal or split
Labour members had a chance to get rid of him not that long ago but declined the opportunity.
Not sure our leader is supposed to appeal to Conservative members really, If the Conservatives kept changing leader until they found one acceptable (but I still wouldn't vote for) to me then that sounds great.... to me.
Not sure it is really doing much for the Tories electorally though.
You need to attract conservative voters to gain office
We did, your particular vote isn't going to go to a left wing Labour party so pleasing you, in much the same way the Conservative party pleasing me, is a complete waste.
My vote could go to TIGs if we leave with no deal.
However, you miss the point - labour needs conservative leaning voters to gain office
Not true. Corbyn got plenty enough votes to win last time. If you stayed at home that would have been enough.
As I said before. That was then, this is now and politics has changed very dramatically
Is this why TIG have not formed a party? As long as polls like this they can make the argument of get rid of Corbyn and we will rejoin and then Labour have a chance of winning again. The withdrawal method applied to politics.
I think that is right. The Labour TIGgers are hoping to rejoin. That is why there is no TIG party.
The 3 Tory TIGgers have been suckered.
Allen, at least, seems to be very disgusted with the Tories on many things, I doubt she would be concerned if Tig falls apart and she cannot go back. The other two I do not know, but frankly most of the splitters seem keen to stress they are still Labour/Tory at heart it is the others who have changed, so I don't think they are that committed necessarily to a new project, if it achieves its aim of influencing the others to prevent Brexit.
My prediction on the night they left was Allen/Wollaston would join the LivDems and Soubry would become a Tory peer. I see no reason to change
TBH I am surprised Labour only get up to 40% in that without Corbyn poll when people can imagine whatever leader and set of policies they want...
You lose some of that as soon as you stick an actual person with actual policies in the job. Also worth remembering if they are left wing then the papers aren't going to give them an easy ride, pretty soon they will be the evil communist threat.
If they aren't left wing good luck getting 40%...
I suspect - as happened in early 2017 - that the effect of this week's news has been to shift a good chunk of the Labour vote to Don't Know. Whether it would remain there in the course of a general election campaign is another matter.
There was no TIG in 2017 and many Remainers then mistakenly hoped voting for Corbyn Labour would stop Brexit, they will not repeat that mistake
There would be no TIG at an election held within the next three months either. Labour's strong performance in 2017 had very little to do with Brexit but rather Corbyn's success in raising issues which voters found much more directly relevant to their daily lives.
“Labour's strong performance in 2017 had very little to do with Brexit”
I cant repeat that sentence without laughing. It’s the most embarrassing thing ever written on PB. 😂
“but rather Corbyn's success in raising issues which voters found much more directly relevant to their daily lives”
That’s just bollox. 😂 🤣 🤣
The problem you got Justin, being so black and white as that, when Mays hard brexit deal is passed, with or without Corbyns personal vote, labour polling about 25% in polls is because of soft brexit support they have lost, and getting smashed in the next election is because a Prime Minister Corbyn is not relevant or wanted in people’s daily lives and Labour has lost centre ground politicians and votes they had last time that helped balance the ticket.
TBH I am surprised Labour only get up to 40% in that without Corbyn poll when people can imagine whatever leader and set of policies they want...
If they aren't left wing good luck getting 40%...
I suspect - as happened in early 2017 - that the effect of this week's news has been to shift a good chunk of the Labour vote to Don't Know. Whether it would remain there in the course of a general election matter.
There was no TIG in 2017 and many Remainers then mistakenly hoped voting for Corbyn Labour would stop Brexit, they will not repeat that mistake
There would be no TIG at an election held within the next three months either. Labour's strong performance in 2017 had very little to do with Brexit but rather Corbyn's success in raising issues which voters found much more directly relevant to their daily lives.
That was then. This is now. Corbyn is toxic
Two years ago you would have said likewise. Remember the Copeland by election in late February 2017?
Not interested in the past. Everything has changed and Corbyn has been exposed and is toxic for labour
Labour's only hope is to get rid of Corbyn and his anti semitic marxist cabal or split
Labour members had a chance to get rid of him not that long ago but declined the opportunity.
Not
Not sure it is really doing much for the Tories electorally though.
You need to attract conservative voters to gain office
We did, your particular vote isn't going to go to a left wing Labour party so pleasing you, in much the same way the Conservative party pleasing me, is a complete waste.
My vote could go to TIGs if we leave with no deal.
However, you miss the point - labour needs conservative leaning voters to gain office
Not true. Corbyn got plenty enough votes to win last time. If you stayed at home that would have been enough.
As I said before. That was then, this is now and politics has changed very dramatically
And by the way, Corbyn did not win the last GE
He didn't say he did. He said it was enough to win, which is true if the Tories do worse and he does not. You might regard that as unlikely, but the Tories won't have my vote next time for starters.
Is this why TIG have not formed a party? As long as polls like this they can make the argument of get rid of Corbyn and we will rejoin and then Labour have a chance of winning again. The withdrawal method applied to politics.
I think that is right. The Labour TIGgers are hoping to rejoin. That is why there is no TIG party.
The 3 Tory TIGgers have been suckered.
Allen, at least, seems to be very disgusted with the Tories on many things, I doubt she would be concerned if Tig falls apart and she cannot go back. The other two I do not know, but frankly most of the splitters seem keen to stress they are still Labour/Tory at heart it is the others who have changed, so I don't think they are that committed necessarily to a new project, if it achieves its aim of influencing the others to prevent Brexit.
My prediction on the night they left was Allen/Wollaston would join the LivDems and Soubry would become a Tory peer. I see no reason to change
Anna Soubry will never become a Tory peer. What conceivable Conservative Leader would ever want to ennoble her?
Dominic Grieve?
Pray, guide me through your logic on how Grieve becomes Tory Leader.
That was not your original question! You merely asked which conceivable Tory leader would want to ennoble her. Anything is technically conceivable, so he qualifies.
TBH I am surprised Labour only get up to 40% in that without Corbyn poll when people can imagine whatever leader and set of policies they want...
If they aren't left wing good luck getting 40%...
I suspect - as happened in early 2017 - that the effect of this week's news has been to shift a good chunk of the Labour vote to Don't Know. Whether it would remain there in the course of a general election matter.
There was no TIG in 2017 and many Remainers then mistakenly hoped voting for Corbyn Labour would stop Brexit, they will not repeat that mistake
There would be no TIG at an election held within the next three months e
That was then. This is now. Corbyn is toxic
Two years ago you would have said likewise. Remember the Copeland by election in late February 2017?
Not interested in the past. Everything has changed and Corbyn has been exposed and is toxic for labour
Labour's only hope is to get rid of Corbyn and his anti semitic marxist cabal or split
Labour members had a chance to get rid of him not that long ago but declined the opportunity.
Not
Not sure it is really doing much for the Tories electorally though.
You need to attract conservative voters to gain office
We did, your particular vote isn't going to go to a left wing Labour party so pleasing you, in much the same way the Conservative party pleasing me, is a complete waste.
My vote could go to TIGs if we leave with no deal.
However, you miss the point - labour needs conservative leaning voters to gain office
Not true. Corbyn got plenty enough votes to win last time. If you stayed at home that would have been enough.
As I said before. That was then, this is now and politics has changed very dramatically
And by the way, Corbyn did not win the last GE
He didn't say he did. He said it was enough to win, which is true if the Tories do worse and he does not. You might regard that as unlikely, but the Tories won't have my vote next time for starters.
I respect that but I have not considered you as a conservative supporter from your posts
Is this why TIG have not formed a party? As long as polls like this they can make the argument of get rid of Corbyn and we will rejoin and then Labour have a chance of winning again. The withdrawal method applied to politics.
I think that is right. The Labour TIGgers are hoping to rejoin. That is why there is no TIG party.
The 3 Tory TIGgers have been suckered.
Allen, at least, seems to be very disgusted with the Tories on many things, I doubt she would be concerned if Tig falls apart and she cannot go back. The other two I do not know, but frankly most of the splitters seem keen to stress they are still Labour/Tory at heart it is the others who have changed, so I don't think they are that committed necessarily to a new project, if it achieves its aim of influencing the others to prevent Brexit.
My prediction on the night they left was Allen/Wollaston would join the LivDems and Soubry would become a Tory peer. I see no reason to change
Anna Soubry will never become a Tory peer. What conceivable Conservative Leader would ever want to ennoble her?
Dominic Grieve?
Pray, guide me through your logic on how Grieve becomes Tory Leader.
That was not your original question! You merely asked which conceivable Tory leader would want to ennoble her. Anything is technically conceivable, so he qualifies.
There was no TIG in 2017 and many Remainers then mistakenly hoped voting for Corbyn Labour would stop Brexit, they will not repeat that mistake
There would be no TIG at an election held within the next three months e
That was then. This is now. Corbyn is toxic
Two years ago you would have said likewise. Remember the Copeland by election in late February 2017?
Not interested in the past. Everything has changed and Corbyn has been exposed and is toxic for labour
Labour's only hope is to get rid of Corbyn and his anti semitic marxist cabal or split
Labour members had a chance to get rid of him not that long ago but declined the opportunity.
Not
Not sure it is really doing much for the Tories electorally though.
You need to attract conservative voters to gain office
We did, your particular vote isn't going to go to a left wing Labour party so pleasing you, in much the same way the Conservative party pleasing me, is a complete waste.
My vote could go to TIGs if we leave with no deal.
However, you miss the point - labour needs conservative leaning voters to gain office
Not true. Corbyn got plenty enough votes to win last time. If you stayed at home that would have been enough.
As I said before. That was then, this is now and politics has changed very dramatically
And by the way, Corbyn did not win the last GE
He didn't say he did. He said it was enough to win, which is true if the Tories do worse and he does not. You might regard that as unlikely, but the Tories won't have my vote next time for starters.
I respect that but I have not considered you as a conservative supporter from your posts
However, they will not have mine if we no deal
My point was I contributed to the 2017 vote share by voting Tory, and won't next time. I may not be typical, but it is at least conceivable that others will follow suit and therefore Corbyn could win just by standing still.
He doesn't look like he will do that, but it is very complacent to think he cannot manage it.
Seriously, why does Corbyn just not come out for a referendum tomorrow? I know I know, leave voters in the north and all that, but his party really really wants to remain and he can still be lukewarm and see leave occur with a referendum if he is lucky. I really don't see a downside for him given he really might lose lots more MPs over this.
How many times!!!! ?
Because he is a Leaver, a Lexiteer, and has been since the 1970s.
He never changes his opinion on anything.
He dreams of a Tory Brexit, chaos, and a grateful public turning to him and his team of communists.
There was no TIG in 2017 and many Remainers then mistakenly hoped voting for Corbyn Labour would stop Brexit, they will not repeat that mistake
There
That was then. This is now. Corbyn is toxic
Two years ago you would have said likewise. Remember the Copeland by election in late February 2017?
Not interested in the past. Everything has changed and Corbyn has been exposed and is toxic for labour
Labour's only hope is to get rid of Corbyn and his anti semitic marxist cabal or split
Labour members had a chance to get rid of him not that long ago but declined the opportunity.
Not
Not sure it is really doing much for the Tories electorally though.
You need to attract conservative voters to gain office
We did, your particular vote isn't going to go to a left wing Labour party so pleasing you, in much the same way the Conservative party pleasing me, is a complete waste.
My vote e
Not true. Corbyn got plenty enough votes to win last time. If you stayed at home that would have been enough.
As I said before. That was then, this is now and politics has changed very dramatically
And by the way, Corbyn did not win the last GE
He didn't say he did. He said it was enough to win, which is true if the Tories do worse and he does not. You might regard that as unlikely, but the Tories won't have my vote next time for starters.
I respect that but I have not considered you as a conservative supporter from your posts
However, they will not have mine if we no deal
My point was I contributed to the 2017 vote share by voting Tory, and won't next time. I may not be typical, but it is at least conceivable that others will follow suit and therefore Corbyn could win just by standing still.
He doesn't look like he will do that, but it is very complacent to think he cannot manage it.
I just do not see it. I could see labour winning under Watson or Starmer, even Thornberry but not Corbyn
Seriously, why does Corbyn just not come out for a referendum tomorrow? I know I know, leave voters in the north and all that, but his party really really wants to remain and he can still be lukewarm and see leave occur with a referendum if he is lucky. I really don't see a downside for him given he really might lose lots more MPs over this.
How many times!!!! ?
Because he is a Leaver, a Lexiteer, and has been since the 1970s.
He never changes his opinion on anything.
He dreams of a Tory Brexit, chaos, and a grateful public turning to him and his team of communists.
I am well aware. But even he cannot be so dumb as to think losing dozens more MPs is a good thing for him. He's been Leader long enough to have grown at least a little into the role, he's already allowed more of a remainy position to have been pushed by Starmer and others for this long which would not be the case if the 'never changes his opinion' view was true.
There was no TIG in 2017 and many Remainers then mistakenly hoped voting for Corbyn Labour would stop Brexit, they will not repeat that mistake
There
That was then. This is now. Corbyn is toxic
Two years ago you would have said likewise. Remember the Copeland by election in late February 2017?
Not interested in the past. Everything has changed and Corbyn has been exposed and is toxic for labour
Labour's only hope is to get rid of Corbyn and his anti semitic marxist cabal or split
Labour members had a chance to get rid of him not that long ago but declined the opportunity.
Not
Not sure it is really doing much for the Tories electorally though.
You need to attract conservative voters to gain office
.
My vote e
Not true. Corbyn got plenty enough votes to win last time. If you stayed at home that would have been enough.
And by the way, Corbyn did not win the last GE
He didn't say he did. He said it was enough to win, which is true if the Tories do worse and he does not. You might regard that as unlikely, but the Tories won't have my vote next time for starters.
I respect that but I have not considered you as a conservative supporter from your posts
However, they will not have mine if we no deal
My point was I contributed to the 2017 vote share by voting Tory, and won't next time. I may not be typical, but it is at least conceivable that others will follow suit and therefore Corbyn could win just by standing still.
He doesn't look like he will do that, but it is very complacent to think he cannot manage it.
I just do not see it. I could see labour winning under Watson or Starmer, even Thornberry but not Corbyn
He has too much baggage
But if you decide not to support the Conservatives in a highly marginal seat (in the event of No Deal), then PM Corbyn becomes a very real possibility.
TBH I am surprised Labour only get up to 40% in that without Corbyn poll when people can imagine whatever leader and set of policies they want...
You lose some of that as soon as you stick an actual person with actual policies in the job. Also worth remembering if they are left wing then the papers aren't going to give them an easy ride, pretty soon they will be the evil communist threat.
If they aren't left wing good luck getting 40%...
I suspect - as happened in early 2017 - that the effect of this week's news has been to shift a good chunk of the Labour vote to Don't Know. Whether it would remain there in the course of a general election campaign is another matter.
There was no TIG in 2017 and many Remainers then mistakenly hoped voting for Corbyn Labour would stop Brexit, they will not repeat that mistake
There would be no TIG at an election held within the next three months either. Labour's strong performance in 2017 had very little to do with Brexit but rather Corbyn's success in raising issues which voters found much more directly relevant to their daily lives.
That was then. This is now. Corbyn is toxic
Two years ago you would have said likewise. Remember the Copeland by election in late February 2017?
Not interested in the past. Everything has changed and Corbyn has been exposed and is toxic for labour
Labour's only hope is to get rid of Corbyn and his anti semitic marxist cabal or split
People have been banging on about Corbyn being toxic for a while, if having a toxic leader see's us achieve our greatest increase in share of the vote since WW2 I think we definitely need a toxic leader if we want to stand a chance electorally.
Not this dreary crap again. Sure LAB's vote share went up a lot at GE2017 but that was down to people like me in tight marginals tactically voting for the LAB candidate as a way of impreding. I wasn't voting for the Jew hater and I wont next time.
Seriously, why does Corbyn just not come out for a referendum tomorrow? I know I know, leave voters in the north and all that, but his party really really wants to remain and he can still be lukewarm and see leave occur with a referendum if he is lucky. I really don't see a downside for him given he really might lose lots more MPs over this.
How many times!!!! ?
Because he is a Leaver, a Lexiteer, and has been since the 1970s.
He never changes his opinion on anything.
He dreams of a Tory Brexit, chaos, and a grateful public turning to him and his team of communists.
I am well aware. But even he cannot be so dumb as to think losing dozens more MPs is a good thing for him. He's been Leader long enough to have grown at least a little into the role, he's already allowed more of a remainy position to have been pushed by Starmer and others for this long which would not be the case if the 'never changes his opinion' view was true.
You have been hoping for some time for Corbyn to back a referendum but he looks at a split as being perfect for him to replace defecting labour mps with his communist mates thereby securing his legacy of changing labour into the communist party of UK
I expect he hopes for more defections, indeed the more the merrier
There was no TIG in 2017 and many Remainers then mistakenly hoped voting for Corbyn Labour would stop Brexit, they will not repeat that mistake
There
That was then. This is now. Corbyn is toxic
Two Remember the Copeland by election in late February 2017?
Not interested in the past. Everything has changed and Corbyn has been exposed and is toxic for labour
Labour's only hope is to get rid of Corbyn and his anti semitic marxist cabal or split
Labour members had a chance to get rid of him not that long ago but declined the opportunity.
Not
Not sure it is really doing much for the Tories electorally though.
You need to attract conservative voters to gain office
.
My vote e
Not true. Corbyn got plenty enough votes to win last time. If you stayed at home that would have been enough.
And by the way, Corbyn did not win the last GE
He didn't say he did. He said it was enough to win, which is true if the Tories do worse and he does not. You might regard that as unlikely, but the Tories won't have my vote next time for starters.
I respect that but I have not considered you as a conservative supporter from your posts
However, they will not have mine if we no deal
My point was I contributed to the 2017 vote share by voting Tory, and won't next time. I may not be typical, but it is at least conceivable that others will follow suit and therefore Corbyn could win just by standing still.
He doesn't look like he will do that, but it is very complacent to think he cannot manage it.
I just do not see it. I could see labour winning under Watson or Starmer, even Thornberry but not Corbyn
He has too much baggage
But if you decide not to support the Conservatives in a highly marginal seat (in the event of No Deal), then PM Corbyn becomes a very real possibility.
TBH I am surprised Labour only get up to 40% in that without Corbyn poll when people can imagine whatever leader and set of policies they want...
You lose some of that as soon as you stick an actual person with actual policies in the job. Also worth remembering if they are left wing then the papers aren't going to give them an easy ride, pretty soon they will be the evil communist threat.
If they aren't left wing good luck getting 40%...
I suspect - as happened in early 2017 - that the effect of this week's news has been to shift a good chunk of the Labour vote to Don't Know. Whether it would remain there in the course of a general election campaign is another matter.
There was no TIG in 2017 and many Remainers then mistakenly hoped voting for Corbyn Labour would stop Brexit, they will not repeat that mistake
There would be no TIG at an election held within the next three months either. Labour's strong performance in 2017 had very little to do with Brexit but rather Corbyn's success in raising issues which voters found much more directly relevant to their daily lives.
That was then. This is now. Corbyn is toxic
Two years ago you would have said likewise. Remember the Copeland by election in late February 2017?
Not interested in the past. Everything has changed and Corbyn has been exposed and is toxic for labour
Labour's only hope is to get rid of Corbyn and his anti semitic marxist cabal or split
People have been banging on about Corbyn being toxic for a while, if having a toxic leader see's us achieve our greatest increase in share of the vote since WW2 I think we definitely need a toxic leader if we want to stand a chance electorally.
Not this dreary crap again. Sure LAB's vote share went up a lot at GE2017 but that was down to people like me in tight marginals tactically voting for the LAB candidate as a way of impreding. I wasn't voting for the Jew hater and I wont next time.
Don't tell them Mike.
They might do something bonkers, like dropping the Messiah and putting Yvette in charge.
Two years ago you would have said likewise. Remember the Copeland by election in late February 2017?
Not interested in the past. Everything has changed and Corbyn has been exposed and is toxic for labour
Labour's only hope is to get rid of Corbyn and his anti semitic marxist cabal or split
Labour members had a chance to get rid of him not that long ago but declined the opportunity.
Not
Not sure it is really doing much for the Tories electorally though.
You need to attract conservative voters to gain office
.
My vote e
Not true. Corbyn got plenty enough votes to win last time. If you stayed at home that would have been enough.
And by the way, Corbyn did not win the last GE
He didn't say he did. He said it was enough to win, which is true if the Tories do worse and he does not. You might regard that as unlikely, but the Tories won't have my vote next time for starters.
I respect that but I have not considered you as a conservative supporter from your posts
However, they will not have mine if we no deal
My point was I contributed to the 2017 vote share by voting Tory, and won't next time. I may not be typical, but it is at least conceivable that others will follow suit and therefore Corbyn could win just by standing still.
He doesn't look like he will do that, but it is very complacent to think he cannot manage it.
I just do not see it. I could see labour winning under Watson or Starmer, even Thornberry but not Corbyn
He has too much baggage
But if you decide not to support the Conservatives in a highly marginal seat (in the event of No Deal), then PM Corbyn becomes a very real possibility.
There was no TIG in 2017 and many Remainers then mistakenly hoped voting for Corbyn Labour would stop Brexit, they will not repeat that mistake
There
That was then. This is now. Corbyn is toxic
Two Remember the Copeland by election in late February 2017?
Not interested in the past. Everything has changed and Corbyn has been exposed and is toxic for labour
Labour's only hope is to get rid of Corbyn and his anti semitic marxist cabal or split
Labour members had a chance to get rid of him not that long ago but declined the opportunity.
Not
Not sure it is really doing much for the Tories electorally though.
You need to attract conservative voters to gain office
.
My vote e
Not true. Corbyn got plenty enough votes to win last time. If you stayed at home that would have been enough.
And by the way, Corbyn did not win the last GE
.
I respect that but I have not considered you as a conservative supporter from your posts
However, they will not have mine if we no deal
My point was I contributed to the 2017 vote share by voting Tory, and won't next time. I may not be typical, but it is at least conceivable that others will follow suit and therefore Corbyn could win just by standing still.
He doesn't look like he will do that, but it is very complacent to think he cannot manage it.
I just do not see it. I could see labour winning under Watson or Starmer, even Thornberry but not Corbyn
He has too much baggage
But if you decide not to support the Conservatives in a highly marginal seat (in the event of No Deal), then PM Corbyn becomes a very real possibility.
Two years ago you would have said likewise. Remember the Copeland by election in late February 2017?
Not interested in the past. Everything has changed and Corbyn has been exposed and is toxic for labour
Labour's only hope is to get rid of Corbyn and his anti semitic marxist cabal or split
Labour members had a chance to get rid of him not that long ago but declined the opportunity.
Not
Not sure it is really doing much for the Tories electorally though.
You need to attract conservative voters to gain office
.
My vote e
Not true. Corbyn got plenty enough votes to win last time. If you stayed at home that would have been enough.
And by the way, Corbyn did not win the last GE
He didn't say he did. He said it was enough to win, which is true if the Tories do worse and he does not. You might regard that as unlikely, but the Tories won't have my vote next time for starters.
I respect that but I have not considered you as a conservative supporter from your posts
However, they will not have mine if we no deal
My point was I contributed to the 2017 vote share by voting Tory, and won't next time. I may not be typical, but it is at least conceivable that others will follow suit and therefore Corbyn could win just by standing still.
He doesn't look like he will do that, but it is very complacent to think he cannot manage it.
not Corbyn
He has too much baggage
But if you decide not to support the Conservatives in a highly marginal seat (in the event of No Deal), then PM Corbyn becomes a very real possibility.
I would vote tactically to keep him out
So you would still vote Con in your own seat? That makes sense.
Two years ago you would have said likewise. Remember the Copeland by election in late February 2017?
Not interested in the past. Everything has changed and Corbyn has been exposed and is toxic for labour
Labour's only hope is to get rid of Corbyn and his anti semitic marxist cabal or split
Labour members
Not
Not sure it is really doing much for the Tories electorally though.
You need to attract conservative voters to gain office
.
My vote e
Not true. Corbyn got plenty enough votes to win last time. If you stayed at home that would have been enough.
And by the way, Corbyn did not win the last GE
He didn't say he did.
I respect that but I have not considered you as a conservative supporter from your posts
However, they will not have mine if we no deal
My point was I contributed to the 2017 vote share by voting Tory, and won't next time. I may not be typical, but it is at least conceivable that others will follow suit and therefore Corbyn could win just by standing still.
He doesn't look like he will do that, but it is very complacent to think he cannot manage it.
not Corbyn
He has too much baggage
But if you decide not to support the Conservatives in a highly marginal seat (in the event of No Deal), then PM Corbyn becomes a very real possibility.
I would vote tactically to keep him out
So you would still vote Con in your own seat? That makes sense.
If it keeps Corbyn out yes. And by the way I am still a member and expect to continue to be so
The only way I would leave is if the ERG and TM colluded and we left with no deal
And if you were a Slovenian you may understandably think that the EU is a marked improvement on most of what has gone before, and stick to it like glue.
Possibly.
But, another reading is that Scotland or Catalonia have so far failed where Slovenia succeeded because it was better to be part of the Austrian-Hungarian empire or Yugoslavia rather than part of the British Empire or Spain.
I don't follow - if it was worse to be part of the latter wouldn't it have been easier to gather up the support in the identity separate from them?
Seriously, why does Corbyn just not come out for a referendum tomorrow? I know I know, leave voters in the north and all that, but his party really really wants to remain and he can still be lukewarm and see leave occur with a referendum if he is lucky. I really don't see a downside for him given he really might lose lots more MPs over this.
How many times!!!! ?
Because he is a Leaver, a Lexiteer, and has been since the 1970s.
He never changes his opinion on anything.
He dreams of a Tory Brexit, chaos, and a grateful public turning to him and his team of communists.
And if he does advocate a second ref to break the deadlock, it means all you have just said is untrue? You will use the sack and ashes Emoji?
I assume it's used because the papers are running out ways to describe May's incompetence.
Typo?
It means there was going to be a proper definitive day in House of Commons Wednesday, but its not now going to happen. The denouement of this kicked down the road still further
TBH I am surprised Labour only get up to 40% in that without Corbyn poll when people can imagine whatever leader and set of policies they want...
You lose some of that as soon as you stick an actual person with actual policies in the job. Also worth remembering if they are left wing then the papers aren't going to give them an easy ride, pretty soon they will be the evil communist threat.
If they aren't left wing good luck getting 40%...
I suspect - as happened in early 2017 - that the effect of this week's news has been to shift a good chunk of the Labour vote to Don't Know. Whether it would remain there in the course of a general election campaign is another matter.
There was no TIG in 2017 and many Remainers then mistakenly hoped voting for Corbyn Labour would stop Brexit, they will not repeat that mistake
There would be no TIG at an election held within the next three months either. Labour's strong performance in 2017 had very little to do with Brexit but rather Corbyn's success in raising issues which voters found much more directly relevant to their daily lives.
That was then. This is now. Corbyn is toxic
Two years ago you would have said likewise. Remember the Copeland by election in late February 2017?
Not interested in the past. Everything has changed and Corbyn has been exposed and is toxic for labour
Labour's only hope is to get rid of Corbyn and his anti semitic marxist cabal or split
People have been banging on about Corbyn being toxic for a while, if having a toxic leader see's us achieve our greatest increase in share of the vote since WW2 I think we definitely need a toxic leader if we want to stand a chance electorally.
Not this dreary crap again. Sure LAB's vote share went up a lot at GE2017 but that was down to people like me in tight marginals tactically voting for the LAB candidate as a way of impreding. I wasn't voting for the Jew hater and I wont next time.
Don't tell them Mike.
They might do something bonkers, like dropping the Messiah and putting Yvette in charge.
Shouldn’t bite really, they are not that stupid to not now appreciate how it works
Pure = bad for revolutions in democratic nations Big tent, balanced ticket through compromise = great news for revolutions in democratic nations
If anyone wants to see a town centre which is doing well then go to York.
It was like the Saturday before Christmas there today and its not a cheap place either.
Some people might be having a drop of austerity but there are many, many others who are wallowing in their own consumption.
Yup, was there for for the York marathon (spectator). A good, busy and smart city.
Its a bit too touristy and expensive for my liking buts its always a good place to visit and has loads of great pubs.
What was noticeable to me was how many more restaurants there seemed to be and York has never been short of them.
For all the talk of austerity there are many, many people with lots and lots of spare money.
One thing York does very well is having events staggered throughout the year to draw in the tourists. This weekend is the middle of the Jorvik Festival which draws in tens of thousands of extra people from all of the country as well as a lot from Scandinavia.
York is probably my favourite city weekend destination.
If anyone wants to see a town centre which is doing well then go to York.
It was like the Saturday before Christmas there today and its not a cheap place either.
Some people might be having a drop of austerity but there are many, many others who are wallowing in their own consumption.
Yup, was there for for the York marathon (spectator). A good, busy and smart city.
Its a bit too touristy and expensive for my liking buts its always a good place to visit and has loads of great pubs.
What was noticeable to me was how many more restaurants there seemed to be and York has never been short of them.
For all the talk of austerity there are many, many people with lots and lots of spare money.
One thing York does very well is having events staggered throughout the year to draw in the tourists. This weekend is the middle of the Jorvik Festival which draws in tens of thousands of extra people from all of the country as well as a lot from Scandinavia.
York is probably my favourite city weekend destination.
We were up there for the Ice Sculpture festival - lots of people around and all the restaurants and cafes doing a great trade.
I assume it's used because the papers are running out ways to describe May's incompetence.
Typo?
According to Urban Dictionary funk is a state of mind “Mother Earth is pregnant for the third time, cause y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe...I was not offended, for I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own shit.”
I reckon it should say flunks, as in no meaningful vote
Seriously, why does Corbyn just not come out for a referendum tomorrow? I know I know, leave voters in the north and all that, but his party really really wants to remain and he can still be lukewarm and see leave occur with a referendum if he is lucky. I really don't see a downside for him given he really might lose lots more MPs over this.
How many times!!!! ?
Because he is a Leaver, a Lexiteer, and has been since the 1970s.
He never changes his opinion on anything.
He dreams of a Tory Brexit, chaos, and a grateful public turning to him and his team of communists.
I am well aware. But even he cannot be so dumb as to think losing dozens more MPs is a good thing for him. He's been Leader long enough to have grown at least a little into the role, he's already allowed more of a remainy position to have been pushed by Starmer and others for this long which would not be the case if the 'never changes his opinion' view was true.
You have been hoping for some time for Corbyn to back a referendum but he looks at a split as being perfect for him to replace defecting labour mps with his communist mates thereby securing his legacy of changing labour into the communist party of UK
I expect he hopes for more defections, indeed the more the merrier
I've not been hoping he would, I thought he would because it makes tactical sense for him and I am baffled the people around him cannot get him to see that.
If anyone wants to see a town centre which is doing well then go to York.
It was like the Saturday before Christmas there today and its not a cheap place either.
Some people might be having a drop of austerity but there are many, many others who are wallowing in their own consumption.
Yup, was there for for the York marathon (spectator). A good, busy and smart city.
Its a bit too touristy and expensive for my liking buts its always a good place to visit and has loads of great pubs.
What was noticeable to me was how many more restaurants there seemed to be and York has never been short of them.
For all the talk of austerity there are many, many people with lots and lots of spare money.
One thing York does very well is having events staggered throughout the year to draw in the tourists. This weekend is the middle of the Jorvik Festival which draws in tens of thousands of extra people from all of the country as well as a lot from Scandinavia.
York is probably my favourite city weekend destination.
Its one of those rare stories where every group - age, sex, location, social class and political support - are all aligned.
I've been quietly surprised at the levels of support for Javid on this. From some of my most 'liberal' mates who usually criticise every Tory home sec.
But, then, to be fair, many of the same mates were also pro water cannon after the London Riots.
If anyone wants to see a town centre which is doing well then go to York.
It was like the Saturday before Christmas there today and its not a cheap place either.
Some people might be having a drop of austerity but there are many, many others who are wallowing in their own consumption.
Yup, was there for for the York marathon (spectator). A good, busy and smart city.
Its a bit too touristy and expensive for my liking buts its always a good place to visit and has loads of great pubs.
What was noticeable to me was how many more restaurants there seemed to be and York has never been short of them.
For all the talk of austerity there are many, many people with lots and lots of spare money.
One thing York does very well is having events staggered throughout the year to draw in the tourists. This weekend is the middle of the Jorvik Festival which draws in tens of thousands of extra people from all of the country as well as a lot from Scandinavia.
York is probably my favourite city weekend destination.
Until 3 years ago York was a very difficult place to find a very good restaurant in. Now there are 4 or 5, largely with mains under £20. That has indeed changed very quickly.
Its one of those rare stories where every group - age, sex, location, social class and political support - are all aligned.
I've been quietly surprised at the levels of support for Javid on this. From some of my most 'liberal' mates who usually criticise every Tory home sec.
But, then, to be fair, many of the same mates were also pro water cannon after the London Riots.
It doesn't matter what the level of support is. What matters is whether it is lawful or not. Presumably a court will decide in the end.
Its one of those rare stories where every group - age, sex, location, social class and political support - are all aligned.
I've been quietly surprised at the levels of support for Javid on this. From some of my most 'liberal' mates who usually criticise every Tory home sec.
But, then, to be fair, many of the same mates were also pro water cannon after the London Riots.
It doesn't matter what the level of support is. What matters is whether it is lawful or not. Presumably a court will decide in the end.
It does if there is an election between now and then....
If anyone wants to see a town centre which is doing well then go to York.
It was like the Saturday before Christmas there today and its not a cheap place either.
Some people might be having a drop of austerity but there are many, many others who are wallowing in their own consumption.
Yup, was there for for the York marathon (spectator). A good, busy and smart city.
Its a bit too touristy and expensive for my liking buts its always a good place to visit and has loads of great pubs.
What was noticeable to me was how many more restaurants there seemed to be and York has never been short of them.
For all the talk of austerity there are many, many people with lots and lots of spare money.
One thing York does very well is having events staggered throughout the year to draw in the tourists. This weekend is the middle of the Jorvik Festival which draws in tens of thousands of extra people from all of the country as well as a lot from Scandinavia.
York is probably my favourite city weekend destination.
We were up there for the Ice Sculpture festival - lots of people around and all the restaurants and cafes doing a great trade.
Lincoln has also started to cotton on to how important these things can be. I go each year to the Steampunk festival in August. In 2018 it pulled in over 120,000 extra visitors to the city over the 4 days. The local shopkeepers say it is now more profitable than the Christmas Market.
""As I made clear last year, I reluctantly took the view that the Labour Party, which I had supported with such commitment and enthusiasm, had been hijacked by an ultra-Left cabal, whose leadership had permitted anti-Semitism, without any attempt to restrain it, in spite of repeated statements to the contrary; and whose intention it was to undertake a revolution which would turn our nation into a socialist republic."
Its one of those rare stories where every group - age, sex, location, social class and political support - are all aligned.
LOL. 😂. Nonsense. In your dreams only is that fact.
The polling reflects hatred for the airhead. The policy is not sound security policy
We are in a rowing boat out upon lake. From our lofty dry end of the boat we can choose to ignore other end of the rowing boat where water comes in and there’s a bit of chaos. The governments policy, as vapid and populist as anything Trump could come up with, is based upon the chaos down there with water coming in, is nothing to do with us. However only a policy based on, oh yes it is our problem too canbe the strong security policy the people of Britain deserve.
""As I made clear last year, I reluctantly took the view that the Labour Party, which I had supported with such commitment and enthusiasm, had been hijacked by an ultra-Left cabal, whose leadership had permitted anti-Semitism, without any attempt to restrain it, in spite of repeated statements to the contrary; and whose intention it was to undertake a revolution which would turn our nation into a socialist republic."
If anyone wants to see a town centre which is doing well then go to York.
It was like the Saturday before Christmas there today and its not a cheap place either.
Some people might be having a drop of austerity but there are many, many others who are wallowing in their own consumption.
Yup, was there for for the York marathon (spectator). A good, busy and smart city.
Its a bit too touristy and expensive for my liking buts its always a good place to visit and has loads of great pubs.
What was noticeable to me was how many more restaurants there seemed to be and York has never been short of them.
For all the talk of austerity there are many, many people with lots and lots of spare money.
One thing York does very well is having events staggered throughout the year to draw in the tourists. This weekend is the middle of the Jorvik Festival which draws in tens of thousands of extra people from all of the country as well as a lot from Scandinavia.
York is probably my favourite city weekend destination.
We were up there for the Ice Sculpture festival - lots of people around and all the restaurants and cafes doing a great trade.
Lincoln has also started to cotton on to how important these things can be. I go each year to the Steampunk festival in August. In 2018 it pulled in over 120,000 extra visitors to the city over the 4 days. The local shopkeepers say it is now more profitable than the Christmas Market.
Actually that sounds interesting and never even heard of it
If anyone wants to see a town centre which is doing well then go to York.
It was like the Saturday before Christmas there today and its not a cheap place either.
Some people might be having a drop of austerity but there are many, many others who are wallowing in their own consumption.
Yup, was there for for the York marathon (spectator). A good, busy and smart city.
Its a bit too touristy and expensive for my liking buts its always a good place to visit and has loads of great pubs.
What was noticeable to me was how many more restaurants there seemed to be and York has never been short of them.
For all the talk of austerity there are many, many people with lots and lots of spare money.
One thing York does very well is having events staggered throughout the year to draw in the tourists. This weekend is the middle of the Jorvik Festival which draws in tens of thousands of extra people from all of the country as well as a lot from Scandinavia.
York is probably my favourite city weekend destination.
We were up there for the Ice Sculpture festival - lots of people around and all the restaurants and cafes doing a great trade.
Lincoln has also started to cotton on to how important these things can be. I go each year to the Steampunk festival in August. In 2018 it pulled in over 120,000 extra visitors to the city over the 4 days. The local shopkeepers say it is now more profitable than the Christmas Market.
If anyone wants to see a town centre which is doing well then go to York.
It was like the Saturday before Christmas there today and its not a cheap place either.
Some people might be having a drop of austerity but there are many, many others who are wallowing in their own consumption.
Yup, was there for for the York marathon (spectator). A good, busy and smart city.
Its a bit too touristy and expensive for my liking buts its always a good place to visit and has loads of great pubs.
What was noticeable to me was how many more restaurants there seemed to be and York has never been short of them.
For all the talk of austerity there are many, many people with lots and lots of spare money.
One thing York does very well is having events staggered throughout the year to draw in the tourists. This weekend is the middle of the Jorvik Festival which draws in tens of thousands of extra people from all of the country as well as a lot from Scandinavia.
York is probably my favourite city weekend destination.
We were up there for the Ice Sculpture festival - lots of people around and all the restaurants and cafes doing a great trade.
Lincoln has also started to cotton on to how important these things can be. I go each year to the Steampunk festival in August. In 2018 it pulled in over 120,000 extra visitors to the city over the 4 days. The local shopkeepers say it is now more profitable than the Christmas Market.
Yep - looks like that could be interesting
We are going to comic con in London in a few months too - taking sixteen year old son and 3 of his mates **shudder** :-).
I don't get it. Either the polls are roughly right, in which case Labour have work to do, or they are wrong, in which case Labour are more popular than the poll says (so no need to do any work).
Either way, doing some work isn't going to harm the situation.
I popped along to see who was defecting tonight, ready to be interviewed on the Sunday political programmes.
Nobody. Seriously? Nobody. On a Saturday night.
To me it looks like the Tiggers have run out of steam.
Night all.
The Tiggers never had any steam in the first place.
The rest of the potential defectors would surely be best to wait a few weeks for a moment of maximum leverage?
The existence of the TIG significantly increases their power to say something like "DO AS WE SAY OR WE QUIT! WE MEAN IT THIS TIME!! (Not like the previous 42 times! We really really mean it, honest!)"
Because up to a fortnight ago, they wouldn't have been taken seriously. And now they would be.
Yes a Sunday defection will have a drip-drip effect of feeding the TIG, but to what end? As David Herdson pointed out, they hardly seem to be going anywhere, or even trying to. If their main effect is simply changing the parliamentary dynamics, it remains the fact that a change of heart from the centre of the Labour party - where the top team seem to have some divisions - ultimately would turn more votes than TIG can directly. Labour's Brexit-related could-be-defectors might be best to ramp the pressure up for now - the moment they follow through on their threat, the influence they hold over the PLP is lost.
If anyone wants to see a town centre which is doing well then go to York.
It was like the Saturday before Christmas there today and its not a cheap place either.
Some people might be having a drop of austerity but there are many, many others who are wallowing in their own consumption.
Yup, was there for for the York marathon (spectator). A good, busy and smart city.
Its a bit too touristy and expensive for my liking buts its always a good place to visit and has loads of great pubs.
What was noticeable to me was how many more restaurants there seemed to be and York has never been short of them.
For all the talk of austerity there are many, many people with lots and lots of spare money.
One thing York does very well is having events staggered throughout the year to draw in the tourists. This weekend is the middle of the Jorvik Festival which draws in tens of thousands of extra people from all of the country as well as a lot from Scandinavia.
York is probably my favourite city weekend destination.
We were up there for the Ice Sculpture festival - lots of people around and all the restaurants and cafes doing a great trade.
Lincoln has also started to cotton on to how important these things can be. I go each year to the Steampunk festival in August. In 2018 it pulled in over 120,000 extra visitors to the city over the 4 days. The local shopkeepers say it is now more profitable than the Christmas Market.
If anyone wants to see a town centre which is doing well then go to York.
It was like the Saturday before Christmas there today and its not a cheap place either.
Some people might be having a drop of austerity but there are many, many others who are wallowing in their own consumption.
Yup, was there for for the York marathon (spectator). A good, busy and smart city.
Its a bit too touristy and expensive for my liking buts its always a good place to visit and has loads of great pubs.
What was noticeable to me was how many more restaurants there seemed to be and York has never been short of them.
For all the talk of austerity there are many, many people with lots and lots of spare money.
One thing York does very well is having events staggered throughout the year to draw in the tourists. This weekend is the middle of the Jorvik Festival which draws in tens of thousands of extra people from all of the country as well as a lot from Scandinavia.
York is probably my favourite city weekend destination.
We were up there for the Ice Sculpture festival - lots of people around and all the restaurants and cafes doing a great trade.
Lincoln has also started to cotton on to how important these things can be. I go each year to the Steampunk festival in August. In 2018 it pulled in over 120,000 extra visitors to the city over the 4 days. The local shopkeepers say it is now more profitable than the Christmas Market.
Actually that sounds interesting and never even heard of it
Will go and investigate right now
It's called The Asylum and is held each August Bank Holiday. The expansion has been remarkable over the last few years.
Seriously? Since the Conservative Party lost its HoC majority in late 1996, nearly a quarter of a century ago, it regained it once and held onto it for less than two years. The result of its escapades in those two years is a constitutional crisis the likes of which we have never seen. If this country returns them for another go it deserves everything it gets.
I don't get it. Either the polls are roughly right, in which case Labour have work to do, or they are wrong, in which case Labour are more popular than the poll says (so no need to do any work).
Either way, doing some work isn't going to harm the situation.
Wasn't this addressed in the PB polling matters podcast a couple of threads back? AB is presumably referring to pollsters prompting about TIG. Calling it a push poll goes a bit further and might be legally problematic for PB and OGH.
Seriously? Since the Conservative Party lost its HoC majority in late 1996, nearly a quarter of a century ago, it regained it once and held onto it for less than two years. The result of its escapades in those two years is a constitutional crisis the likes of which we have never seen. If this country returns them for another go it deserves everything it gets.
We get what we deserve after every election. And the crisis was caused by a lot more people than just Tories, who merely opened the door and the voters took us through it. I regret that, but we were certainly warned.
Did you get past the headline? The Mail reminds us that Seamus Milne would be the first press chief denied security clearance since, oh, Andy Coulson.
Labour 2019. Conservatives 2010.
Of course exactly the same
Moderate Labour MPs say Mr Milne has an ‘undue influence over Mr Corbyn’, especially over the party’s handling of anti-Semitism. One prominent Jewish MP called it ‘appalling’, adding: ‘The only reason I am reluctant to put my name to this is that I know that, if I do, I will get death threats.’
Did you get past the headline? The Mail reminds us that Seamus Milne would be the first press chief denied security clearance since, oh, Andy Coulson.
Labour 2019. Conservatives 2010.
Of course exactly the same
Moderate Labour MPs say Mr Milne has an ‘undue influence over Mr Corbyn’, especially over the party’s handling of anti-Semitism. One prominent Jewish MP called it ‘appalling’, adding: ‘The only reason I am reluctant to put my name to this is that I know that, if I do, I will get death threats.’
Mhhhh
You are kidding yourself
Who said it was exactly the same? Coulson went from Downing Street to HMP Belmarsh. I expect Milne would go the same way in the unlikely event he starts murdering Jewish MPs.
A spokesman declined to comment in detail on Coulson's security status but said he would have been consulted by a senior official over which level of vetting he should undergo. "In normal circumstances at a senior level the postholder would be consulted. You get the standard level and you discuss whether to go higher."
Jonathan Powell, Blair's former chief of staff, said: "In our time in No 10, the press officers were all cleared at the highest level. It is essential if you are going to work on international matters to be able to read intelligence and other relevant material."
The Cabinet Office said that, unlike Campbell and Powell, Coulson's job did not require him to have high-level security clearance. He did not attend cabinet meetings, the bi-weekly national security council meetings, or Cobra, the government's emergency committee.
"He had 'security check' level of security clearance which most officials in No 10 and most special advisers would be subject to," a spokesman said. "The only people who will be subject to developed vetting are those who are working in security matters regularly and would need to have that sort of information. The only special advisers that would have developed vetting would be in the Foreign Office, Ministry of Defence and maybe the Home Office. Andy Coulson's role was different to Alastair Campbell's and Jonathan Powell. Alastair Campbell could instruct civil servants. This is why [Coulson] wasn't necessarily cleared. Given [the nature of] Andy Coulson's role as more strategic he wouldn't have neccesarily have been subject to developed vetting."
I have not degraunidifed the "neccesarily", thought the pedants on here might have enjoyed it.
But raises an interesting question. Do we actually want press chiefs operating at this kind of higher level?
The most compelling reason I can think of is that a modern government in an interconnected world needs a well-oiled PR/propaganda machine to help fight soft-power battles. (Given what our defence and foreign secretaries have been up to lately, never mind the Brexit stuff, the case almost makes itself.) But then in practice communications chiefs seem more likely to be deployed for party-political purposes with a more domestic audience as their primary target.
What OGH really objected to was Jezza insisting afterwards that he had a long record of opposing pissing on chips and that complaining about pissing on chips was a distraction from his policy of standardizing chip length and frying oil.
TBH I am surprised Labour only get up to 40% in that without Corbyn poll when people can imagine whatever leader and set of policies they want...
You lose some of that as soon as you stick an actual person with actual policies in the job. Also worth remembering if they are left wing then the papers aren't going to give them an easy ride, pretty soon they will be the evil communist threat.
If they aren't left wing good luck getting 40%...
I suspect - as happened in early 2017 - that the effect of this week's news has been to shift a good chunk of the Labour vote to Don't Know. Whether it would remain there in the course of a general election campaign is another matter.
There was no TIG in 2017 and many Remainers then mistakenly hoped voting for Corbyn Labour would stop Brexit, they will not repeat that mistake
There would be no TIG at an election held within the next three months either. Labour's strong performance in 2017 had very little to do with Brexit but rather Corbyn's success in raising issues which voters found much more directly relevant to their daily lives.
“Labour's strong performance in 2017 had very little to do with Brexit”
I cant repeat that sentence without laughing. It’s the most embarrassing thing ever written on PB. 😂
“but rather Corbyn's success in raising issues which voters found much more directly relevant to their daily lives”
That’s just bollox. 😂 🤣 🤣
The problem you got Justin, being so black and white as that, when Mays hard brexit deal is passed, with or without Corbyns personal vote, labour polling about 25% in polls is because of soft brexit support they have lost, and getting smashed in the next election is because a Prime Minister Corbyn is not relevant or wanted in people’s daily lives and Labour has lost centre ground politicians and votes they had last time that helped balance the ticket.
I suggest that you consult the Archives of PB from mid-May - Polling Day 2017.
TBH I am surprised Labour only get up to 40% in that without Corbyn poll when people can imagine whatever leader and set of policies they want...
You lose some of that as soon as you stick an actual person with actual policies in the job. Also worth remembering if they are left wing then the papers aren't going to give them an easy ride, pretty soon they will be the evil communist threat.
If they aren't left wing good luck getting 40%...
I suspect - as happened in early 2017 - that the effect of this week's news has been to shift a good chunk of the Labour vote to Don't Know. Whether it would remain there in the course of a general election campaign is another matter.
There was no TIG in 2017 and many Remainers then mistakenly hoped voting for Corbyn Labour would stop Brexit, they will not repeat that mistake
There would be no TIG at an election held within the next three months either. Labour's strong performance in 2017 had very little to do with Brexit but rather Corbyn's success in raising issues which voters found much more directly relevant to their daily lives.
That was then. This is now. Corbyn is toxic
Two years ago you would have said likewise. Remember the Copeland by election in late February 2017?
Not interested in the past. Everything has changed and Corbyn has been exposed and is toxic for labour
Labour's only hope is to get rid of Corbyn and his anti semitic marxist cabal or split
People have been banging on about Corbyn being toxic for a while, if having a toxic leader see's us achieve our greatest increase in share of the vote since WW2 I think we definitely need a toxic leader if we want to stand a chance electorally.
Not this dreary crap again. Sure LAB's vote share went up a lot at GE2017 but that was down to people like me in tight marginals tactically voting for the LAB candidate as a way of impreding. I wasn't voting for the Jew hater and I wont next time.
You'll forgive me for not going along with the assumption that your vote decides elections.
TBH I am surprised Labour only get up to 40% in that without Corbyn poll when people can imagine whatever leader and set of policies they want...
You lose some of that as soon as you stick an actual person with actual policies in the job. Also worth remembering if they are left wing then the papers aren't going to give them an easy ride, pretty soon they will be the evil communist threat.
If they aren't left wing good luck getting 40%...
I suspect - as happened in early 2017 - that the effect of this week's news has been to shift a good chunk of the Labour vote to Don't Know. Whether it would remain there in the course of a general election campaign is another matter.
There was no TIG in 2017 and many Remainers then mistakenly hoped voting for Corbyn Labour would stop Brexit, they will not repeat that mistake
There would be no TIG at an election held within the next three months either. Labour's strong performance in 2017 had very little to do with Brexit but rather Corbyn's success in raising issues which voters found much more directly relevant to their daily lives.
That was then. This is now. Corbyn is toxic
Two years ago you would have said likewise. Remember the Copeland by election in late February 2017?
Not interested in the past. Everything has changed and Corbyn has been exposed and is toxic for labour
Labour's only hope is to get rid of Corbyn and his anti semitic marxist cabal or split
People have been banging on about Corbyn being toxic for a while, if having a toxic leader see's us achieve our greatest increase in share of the vote since WW2 I think we definitely need a toxic leader if we want to stand a chance electorally.
Not this dreary crap again. Sure LAB's vote share went up a lot at GE2017 but that was down to people like me in tight marginals tactically voting for the LAB candidate as a way of impreding. I wasn't voting for the Jew hater and I wont next time.
You'll forgive me for not going along with the assumption that your vote decides elections.
But Bedford's majority was only 789....
You don't go to many dinner parties in 2019 where people sit around excitedly talking about how to stick it to the Tories by voting for that Jew-hater Corbyn. That is just SO 2017.....
There was no TIG in 2017 and many Remainers then mistakenly hoped voting for Corbyn Labour would stop Brexit, they will not repeat that mistake
There would be no TIG at an election held within the next three months either. Labour's strong performance in 2017 had very little to do with Brexit but rather Corbyn's success in raising issues which voters found much more directly relevant to their daily lives.
That was then. This is now. Corbyn is toxic
Two years ago you would have said likewise. Remember the Copeland by election in late February 2017?
Not interested in the past. Everything has changed and Corbyn has been exposed and is toxic for labour
Labour's only hope is to get rid of Corbyn and his anti semitic marxist cabal or split
People have been banging on about Corbyn being toxic for a while, if having a toxic leader see's us achieve our greatest increase in share of the vote since WW2 I think we definitely need a toxic leader if we want to stand a chance electorally.
The biggest increase thing is definitely noteworthy as it was impressive and unexpected, but it's little different to people praising May for getting such a high share, it didn't matter because he didn't win and she didn't get a majority respectively, and more to the point plenty of others never had the chance to see such a big increase because they didn't come from a lower point (though I'm sure plenty tried and failed).
It isn't as amazing a defence point as Corbyn fans think it is, even though he did much better than most people thought.
I think the fact May got such a high tally shows she had done a good job of presenting an image and placement of herself even if she then had a bad election campaign. I'm not sure other Tories would have got those figures.
I don't think other Labour figures would have got that rise in vote share as well, which is a defence against an accusation of him being toxic, accusations which existed before the election, so it is a great defence against him being unable to win votes because he is toxic.
I suspect - as happened in early 2017 - that the effect of this week's news has been to shift a good chunk of the Labour vote to Don't Know. Whether it would remain there in the course of a general election campaign is another matter.
There was no TIG in 2017 and many Remainers then mistakenly hoped voting for Corbyn Labour would stop Brexit, they will not repeat that mistake
There would be no TIG at an election held within the next three months either. Labour's strong performance in 2017 had very little to do with Brexit but rather Corbyn's success in raising issues which voters found much more directly relevant to their daily lives.
That was then. This is now. Corbyn is toxic
Two years ago you would have said likewise. Remember the Copeland by election in late February 2017?
Not interested in the past. Everything has changed and Corbyn has been exposed and is toxic for labour
Labour's only hope is to get rid of Corbyn and his anti semitic marxist cabal or split
People have been banging on about Corbyn being toxic for a while, if having a toxic leader see's us achieve our greatest increase in share of the vote since WW2 I think we definitely need a toxic leader if we want to stand a chance electorally.
Not this dreary crap again. Sure LAB's vote share went up a lot at GE2017 but that was down to people like me in tight marginals tactically voting for the LAB candidate as a way of impreding. I wasn't voting for the Jew hater and I wont next time.
You'll forgive me for not going along with the assumption that your vote decides elections.
But Bedford's majority was only 789....
You don't go to many dinner parties in 2019 where people sit around excitedly talking about how to stick it to the Tories by voting for that Jew-hater Corbyn. That is just SO 2017.....
I'm assuming Mike just has the one vote rather than 780?
I'm also assuming that other voters are free to choose to vote differently next time, that some who voted previously won't vote next time and some who didn't will.
These assumptions tell me that not only does Mike's vote alone not swing one seat but it certainly doesn't swing a whole election.
Also something about dinner parties windrush, Islamophobia, Theresa May is racist but put into a snappy order with extra words to make it more insulting.
You don't go to many dinner parties in 2019 where people sit around excitedly talking about how to stick it to the Tories by voting for that Jew-hater Corbyn. That is just SO 2017.....
I'm assuming Mike just has the one vote rather than 780?
I'm also assuming that other voters are free to choose to vote differently next time, that some who voted previously won't vote next time and some who didn't will.
These assumptions tell me that not only does Mike's vote alone not swing one seat but it certainly doesn't swing a whole election.
Also something about dinner parties windrush, Islamophobia, Theresa May is racist but put into a snappy order with extra words to make it more insulting.
Put the following into order. Jew-hater, unelectable, balloon, Corbyn, evidence, deflating, Goodnight....
You don't go to many dinner parties in 2019 where people sit around excitedly talking about how to stick it to the Tories by voting for that Jew-hater Corbyn. That is just SO 2017.....
I'm assuming Mike just has the one vote rather than 780?
I'm also assuming that other voters are free to choose to vote differently next time, that some who voted previously won't vote next time and some who didn't will.
These assumptions tell me that not only does Mike's vote alone not swing one seat but it certainly doesn't swing a whole election.
Also something about dinner parties windrush, Islamophobia, Theresa May is racist but put into a snappy order with extra words to make it more insulting.
Put the following into order. Jew-hater, unelectable, balloon, Corbyn, evidence, deflating, Goodnight....
Has the TIG managed to take many members/footsoldiers with it? Without any base to speak of, they will die. Is there any evidence of cllrs, MEPs, MSPs, AMs actually shifting, is it just a bit more of the westminster bubble?
Comments
And by the way, Corbyn did not win the last GE
I cant repeat that sentence without laughing. It’s the most embarrassing thing ever written on PB. 😂
“but rather Corbyn's success in raising issues which voters found much more directly relevant to their daily lives”
That’s just bollox. 😂 🤣 🤣
The problem you got Justin, being so black and white as that, when Mays hard brexit deal is passed, with or without Corbyns personal vote, labour polling about 25% in polls is because of soft brexit support they have lost, and getting smashed in the next election is because a Prime Minister Corbyn is not relevant or wanted in people’s daily lives and Labour has lost centre ground politicians and votes they had last time that helped balance the ticket.
However, they will not have mine if we no deal
He doesn't look like he will do that, but it is very complacent to think he cannot manage it.
I assume it's used because the papers are running out ways to describe May's incompetence.
Because he is a Leaver, a Lexiteer, and has been since the 1970s.
He never changes his opinion on anything.
He dreams of a Tory Brexit, chaos, and a grateful public turning to him and his team of communists.
He has too much baggage
Not this dreary crap again. Sure LAB's vote share went up a lot at GE2017 but that was down to people like me in tight marginals tactically voting for the LAB candidate as a way of impreding. I wasn't voting for the Jew hater and I wont next time.
I expect he hopes for more defections, indeed the more the merrier
Nobody. Seriously? Nobody. On a Saturday night.
To me it looks like the Tiggers have run out of steam.
Night all.
I would say my own experience is 75-80% would not have her back
They might do something bonkers, like dropping the Messiah and putting Yvette in charge.
The only way I would leave is if the ERG and TM colluded and we left with no deal
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6738171/Corbyns-closest-aide-national-security-risk.html
Pure = bad for revolutions in democratic nations
Big tent, balanced ticket through compromise = great news for revolutions in democratic nations
Simples
Unless Guto jumps -- but he would then be on his third party -- & I gathered you were not keen on Guto.
https://yougov.co.uk/opi/surveys/results#/survey/f6385dae-34fd-11e9-af57-67fad969c339
Its one of those rare stories where every group - age, sex, location, social class and political support - are all aligned.
Something tells me he's not a fan...
York is probably my favourite city weekend destination.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Sarah_Wollaston(popup:ratings/politics/conservative-politicians/all)
Inevitably there are more negatives than positives but two who stand out as being especially unpopular are:
Cameron 19 positive 58 negative
Osborne 10 positive 56 negative
By contrast Boris is +32, -44 and May +28, -48.
“Mother Earth is pregnant for the third time, cause y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe...I was not offended, for I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own shit.”
I reckon it should say flunks, as in no meaningful vote
But, then, to be fair, many of the same mates were also pro water cannon after the London Riots.
Fox +12, -28
Grayling +8, -26
Williamson +6, -12
""As I made clear last year, I reluctantly took the view that the Labour Party, which I had supported with such commitment and enthusiasm, had been hijacked by an ultra-Left cabal, whose leadership had permitted anti-Semitism, without any attempt to restrain it, in spite of repeated statements to the contrary; and whose intention it was to undertake a revolution which would turn our nation into a socialist republic."
Telegraph
The polling reflects hatred for the airhead. The policy is not sound security policy
We are in a rowing boat out upon lake. From our lofty dry end of the boat we can choose to ignore other end of the rowing boat where water comes in and there’s a bit of chaos. The governments policy, as vapid and populist as anything Trump could come up with, is based upon the chaos down there with water coming in, is nothing to do with us. However only a policy based on, oh yes it is our problem too canbe the strong security policy the people of Britain deserve.
Exactly.
Why or why can his supporters, who are pro EU, not seen through this crap?
Will go and investigate right now
We are going to comic con in London in a few months too - taking sixteen year old son and 3 of his mates **shudder** :-).
Polls are fake news.
I don't get it. Either the polls are roughly right, in which case Labour have work to do, or they are wrong, in which case Labour are more popular than the poll says (so no need to do any work).
Either way, doing some work isn't going to harm the situation.
Mind you I hope to be still a party member
The Wednesday Cooper vote still seems to be on, though, so she may be finally running out of road.
Let's have those membership figures next month...
The existence of the TIG significantly increases their power to say something like "DO AS WE SAY OR WE QUIT! WE MEAN IT THIS TIME!! (Not like the previous 42 times! We really really mean it, honest!)"
Because up to a fortnight ago, they wouldn't have been taken seriously. And now they would be.
Yes a Sunday defection will have a drip-drip effect of feeding the TIG, but to what end? As David Herdson pointed out, they hardly seem to be going anywhere, or even trying to. If their main effect is simply changing the parliamentary dynamics, it remains the fact that a change of heart from the centre of the Labour party - where the top team seem to have some divisions - ultimately would turn more votes than TIG can directly. Labour's Brexit-related could-be-defectors might be best to ramp the pressure up for now - the moment they follow through on their threat, the influence they hold over the PLP is lost.
Have a great night's rest folks
Good night
Labour 2019. Conservatives 2010.
Moderate Labour MPs say Mr Milne has an ‘undue influence over Mr Corbyn’, especially over the party’s handling of anti-Semitism. One prominent Jewish MP called it ‘appalling’, adding: ‘The only reason I am reluctant to put my name to this is that I know that, if I do, I will get death threats.’
Mhhhh
You are kidding yourself
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2011/jul/20/andy-coulson-security-clearance-checks
A spokesman declined to comment in detail on Coulson's security status but said he would have been consulted by a senior official over which level of vetting he should undergo. "In normal circumstances at a senior level the postholder would be consulted. You get the standard level and you discuss whether to go higher."
Jonathan Powell, Blair's former chief of staff, said: "In our time in No 10, the press officers were all cleared at the highest level. It is essential if you are going to work on international matters to be able to read intelligence and other relevant material."
The Cabinet Office said that, unlike Campbell and Powell, Coulson's job did not require him to have high-level security clearance. He did not attend cabinet meetings, the bi-weekly national security council meetings, or Cobra, the government's emergency committee.
"He had 'security check' level of security clearance which most officials in No 10 and most special advisers would be subject to," a spokesman said. "The only people who will be subject to developed vetting are those who are working in security matters regularly and would need to have that sort of information. The only special advisers that would have developed vetting would be in the Foreign Office, Ministry of Defence and maybe the Home Office. Andy Coulson's role was different to Alastair Campbell's and Jonathan Powell. Alastair Campbell could instruct civil servants. This is why [Coulson] wasn't necessarily cleared. Given [the nature of] Andy Coulson's role as more strategic he wouldn't have neccesarily have been subject to developed vetting."
I have not degraunidifed the "neccesarily", thought the pedants on here might have enjoyed it.
But raises an interesting question. Do we actually want press chiefs operating at this kind of higher level?
The most compelling reason I can think of is that a modern government in an interconnected world needs a well-oiled PR/propaganda machine to help fight soft-power battles. (Given what our defence and foreign secretaries have been up to lately, never mind the Brexit stuff, the case almost makes itself.) But then in practice communications chiefs seem more likely to be deployed for party-political purposes with a more domestic audience as their primary target.
Apples and pears
Last week VI
This week what if a fictitious party was involved VI
https://www.gambling.com/online-betting/strategy/4-key-reasons-why-you-shouldn-t-be-backing-bernie-for-2020-1819600
You don't go to many dinner parties in 2019 where people sit around excitedly talking about how to stick it to the Tories by voting for that Jew-hater Corbyn. That is just SO 2017.....
I don't think other Labour figures would have got that rise in vote share as well, which is a defence against an accusation of him being toxic, accusations which existed before the election, so it is a great defence against him being unable to win votes because he is toxic.
I'm also assuming that other voters are free to choose to vote differently next time, that some who voted previously won't vote next time and some who didn't will.
These assumptions tell me that not only does Mike's vote alone not swing one seat but it certainly doesn't swing a whole election.
Also something about dinner parties windrush, Islamophobia, Theresa May is racist but put into a snappy order with extra words to make it more insulting.
Corbyn, no evidence of being Jew-Hater.
Goodnight deflating balloon..,,,,,