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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why Chief Justice Roberts could hold the key to Trump’s wall

SCOTUS with Roberts front row centre

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MarqueeMark

First. Maybe.

MarqueeMark

If the wall does get built - will the Deomcrats pledge to take it down?

My money would be on no.....

Iain

Like him or not he is bouncing back in the popularity stakes, still in deficit but not by that much.

SouthamObserver

Roberts was also the swing vote that upheld Obamacare, I think.

Alistair

Iain said:

Like him or not he is bouncing back in the popularity stakes, still in deficit but not by that much.

He took a hammering whilst the shutdown was happening as he plunged with 'independents' . Let's see how he does whilst the national emergency is ongoing.

Alistair

SouthamObserver said:

Roberts was also the swing vote that upheld Obamacare, I think.

Roberts ruling 'upheld' Obamacare whilst simultaneously giving the Republicans an incredibly easy way to trash it with the status of the individual mandate. That it took the Republicans so long to torpedo it shows how dysfunctional as a party they are.

HYUFD

Given polling in the US shows a majority now oppose the Wall but want tighter immigration restrictions I expect a similar Roberts ruling, denying funding for the Wall is needed as a matter of national emergency but granting extra funding for more border patrols and fencing.

Overall CNN has voters opposing building a border wall with Mexico by 56% to 39% and ABC by 54% to 42% so while most Republicans back funding for the Wall most Americans as a whole oppose it, a similar divide to UK polls on No Deal

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2019/01/13/Polls-Majority-oppose-border-wall-blame-Trump-for-shutdown/3141547389844/

RobD

MarqueeMark said:

If the wall does get built - will the Deomcrats pledge to take it down?

My money would be on no.....

Didn't they start building it in the 90s?

Yorkcity

If the Mexicans had agreed to pay for the wall.As Trump said they would.
Would that have caused any problems?

Cyclefree

The issue is not whether individual justices are or are not in favour of a wall but whether Trump has or has not misused his executive powers. In short, has he upset the delicate balance between legislature, executive and judiciary?

That has very wide-ranging implications, beyond the question of how to prevent illegal immigration into the US (I’m not clear as to whether Democrats oppose any attempt to control illegal immigration or only this particular way of doing so).

For instance, if the Supreme Court were to find that Trump has not abused Presidential powers in this case, then that leaves the way open for a Democrat President to take executive action on the basis of a national emergency to control guns.

So the question at issue may end up cutting across party lines in surprising ways. After all, Democrats have in the past been quite keen on Presidents expanding their powers - FDR anyone? Thoughtful Republicans might worry about a ruling which extends Presidential executive powers, something the US system has always been designed to keep in check.

matt

Cyclefree said:

The issue is not whether individual justices are or are not in favour of a wall but whether Trump has or has not misused his executive powers. In short, has he upset the delicate balance between legislature, executive and judiciary?

That has very wide-ranging implications, beyond the question of how to prevent illegal immigration into the US (I’m not clear as to whether Democrats oppose any attempt to control illegal immigration or only this particular way of doing so).

For instance, if the Supreme Court were to find that Trump has not abused Presidential powers in this case, then that leaves the way open for a Democrat President to take executive action on the basis of a national emergency to control guns.

So the question at issue may end up cutting across party lines in surprising ways. After all, Democrats have in the past been quite keen on Presidents expanding their powers - FDR anyone? Thoughtful Republicans might worry about a ruling which extends Presidential executive powers, something the US system has always been designed to keep in check.

I’m sure that there are some US politicians that realise behaving in a certain way could (and probably will) have consequences when the roles are reversed but I guess that when you have a, at best, 2 year horizon, the medium to long term is another country.

OblitusSumMe

Less than 992 hours to Brexit-hour.

dots

If UK was joined to mainland Europe by a strip of land not a strip of sea, we would already have a border wall identical to Trumps proposition? Would we not?

Whilst drugs were such a problem throughout every community in the UK, and the wall sold as an answer to tackling the drug menace, UK voters would show a clear majority for the UK border wall.

Conclusion:US voters have a more libertarian and cosmopolitan dna than British voters.

IanB2

First like the ERG..

viewcode

dots said:

If UK was joined to mainland Europe by a strip of land not a strip of sea, we would already have a border wall identical to Trumps proposition? Would we not?

Whilst drugs were such a problem throughout every community in the UK, and the wall sold as an answer to tackling the drug menace, UK voters would show a clear majority for the UK border wall.

Conclusion:US voters have a more libertarian and cosmopolitan dna than British voters.

W do have a land border with the EU (well we will from March 29 or therabouts) and politicians have been tying themselves in knots desperately not to build a wall. So that would be a "no" then.

DavidL

I am not so sure that I agree with the analysis in the thread header here. Traditionally, conservative Justices have sought to limit both the powers of the Federal government and the President and more liberal Justices have been more enabling. I don’t see that reversing just because it is a notionally Republican president who is seeking to expand Presidential power. The Supreme Court is very conscious of precedent and will not be looking at this as a one off.

viewcode

Sunil_Prasannan said:

edmundintokyo said:

SunnyJim said:

Why would TM agree to R2 before she would agree to a GE?

The latter gives her an out which would at least keep the Tories together whilst going for R2 would rip them apart.

She can offer a GE on a manifesto binding all candidates to her deal (she will lose a few current MP's of course who would not stand on that platform) and explain it away as the only realistic option to escape the impasse.

Offering R2 is utterly nuts and gets crazier the more I consider it.

I agree, a GE is more likely than R2.

"R2D2, it is you! It is you!"

Great quoting, kid. Don't get cocky...

Cyclefree

matt said:

Cyclefree said:

The issue is not whether individual justices are or are not in favour of a wall but whether Trump has or has not misused his executive powers. In short, has he upset the delicate balance between legislature, executive and judiciary?

That has very wide-ranging implications, beyond the question of how to prevent illegal immigration into the US (I’m not clear as to whether Democrats oppose any attempt to control illegal immigration or only this particular way of doing so).

For instance, if the Supreme Court were to find that Trump has not abused Presidential powers in this case, then that leaves the way open for a Democrat President to take executive action on the basis of a national emergency to control guns.

So the question at issue may end up cutting across party lines in surprising ways. After all, Democrats have in the past been quite keen on Presidents expanding their powers - FDR anyone? Thoughtful Republicans might worry about a ruling which extends Presidential executive powers, something the US system has always been designed to keep in check.

I’m sure that there are some US politicians that realise behaving in a certain way could (and probably will) have consequences when the roles are reversed but I guess that when you have a, at best, 2 year horizon, the medium to long term is another country.

But the decision will be made by judges who will, I hope, take a longer-term view beyond the immediate issue at hand.

It occurs to me - seeing how Trump presented his decision yesterday - that he may be seeking to make 2 points to his voters, if he wins: Not just “I built the wall as I promised” but “I’ve changed the SCOTUS”.

If he loses, what effect might this have on his chances of re-election and, indeed, his desire to seek re-election?

DavidL

To take a specific example I would be surprised if Thomas backs this.

Cyclefree

Another statement of the bleeding obvious (other than to our MPs, clearly) and something which has been said on here -

“Generally speaking , governments and parliaments are able to ratify to ratify international treaties. The fact that the UK is stuck and is unable to ratify this agreement creates huge difficulties for them, not just now but into also the future because part of the case for Brexit was that the UK would be able to strike trade deals with countries all over the world.

“But countries are looking at the UK and wondering is this a country that is going to be able to make agreements, ratify them and stick to them.”

By the Taoiseach, Varadkar.

DavidL

Cyclefree said:

Another statement of the bleeding obvious (other than to our MPs, clearly) and something which has been said on here -

“Generally speaking , governments and parliaments are able to ratify to ratify international treaties. The fact that the UK is stuck and is unable to ratify this agreement creates huge difficulties for them, not just now but into also the future because part of the case for Brexit was that the UK would be able to strike trade deals with countries all over the world.

“But countries are looking at the UK and wondering is this a country that is going to be able to make agreements, ratify them and stick to them.”

By the Taoiseach, Varadkar.

It’s why treaty negotiations are really a matter for governments not Parliaments. If Parliament really doesn’t like it the choice is to kick the government out of office, not to try and negotiate the treaty themselves.

RobD

Cyclefree said:

Another statement of the bleeding obvious (other than to our MPs, clearly) and something which has been said on here -

“Generally speaking , governments and parliaments are able to ratify to ratify international treaties. The fact that the UK is stuck and is unable to ratify this agreement creates huge difficulties for them, not just now but into also the future because part of the case for Brexit was that the UK would be able to strike trade deals with countries all over the world.

“But countries are looking at the UK and wondering is this a country that is going to be able to make agreements, ratify them and stick to them.”

By the Taoiseach, Varadkar.

Would have been much easier without the meaningful vote.

brokenwheel

Trump doesn't want to win in the Supreme Court. He certainly doesn't want a wall built, at least not until a second term. It's political capital; by keeping it in the zeitgeist he wins by getting the Democrats to show their true colours; the "progressive" Democratic candidates are falling over themselves to say they want to tear down the existing barriers. Americans may be ambivalent to the wall but they aren't open borders nutters.

If he had really wanted it he would have got it funded while Republicans held both houses. Of course the trouble for him is keeping his supporters on side despite the fact he's blatantly stalling.

AlastairMeeks

RobD said:

Cyclefree said:

Another statement of the bleeding obvious (other than to our MPs, clearly) and something which has been said on here -

“Generally speaking , governments and parliaments are able to ratify to ratify international treaties. The fact that the UK is stuck and is unable to ratify this agreement creates huge difficulties for them, not just now but into also the future because part of the case for Brexit was that the UK would be able to strike trade deals with countries all over the world.

“But countries are looking at the UK and wondering is this a country that is going to be able to make agreements, ratify them and stick to them.”

By the Taoiseach, Varadkar.

Would have been much easier without the meaningful vote.

Another member of Leavers Against Parliamentary Sovereignty.

RobD

AlastairMeeks said:

RobD said:

Cyclefree said:

Another statement of the bleeding obvious (other than to our MPs, clearly) and something which has been said on here -

“Generally speaking , governments and parliaments are able to ratify to ratify international treaties. The fact that the UK is stuck and is unable to ratify this agreement creates huge difficulties for them, not just now but into also the future because part of the case for Brexit was that the UK would be able to strike trade deals with countries all over the world.

“But countries are looking at the UK and wondering is this a country that is going to be able to make agreements, ratify them and stick to them.”

By the Taoiseach, Varadkar.

Would have been much easier without the meaningful vote.

Another member of Leavers Against Parliamentary Sovereignty.

Simply stating a fact.

Nigelb

This is the best analysis I’ve seen:
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/02/nancy-pelosi-trump-emergency-wall-fail.html

Congress could have tied Trump’s hands a little more tightly perhaps.
Giving him rope ?

geoffw

RobD said:

AlastairMeeks said:

RobD said:

Cyclefree said:

Another statement of the bleeding obvious (other than to our MPs, clearly) and something which has been said on here -

“Generally speaking , governments and parliaments are able to ratify to ratify international treaties. The fact that the UK is stuck and is unable to ratify this agreement creates huge difficulties for them, not just now but into also the future because part of the case for Brexit was that the UK would be able to strike trade deals with countries all over the world.

“But countries are looking at the UK and wondering is this a country that is going to be able to make agreements, ratify them and stick to them.”

By the Taoiseach, Varadkar.

Would have been much easier without the meaningful vote.

Another member of Leavers Against Parliamentary Sovereignty.

Simply stating a fact.

but facts are chiels that winna ding

kyf_100

SeanT said:

Karl Marx's grave is being targeted. Deep irony here.

https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1096800207772241922

Yes, it's utterly wrong and contemptible.

But as wrong as it is, it's the logical conclusion of the Rhodes Must Fall nonsense and all the other revisionist nonsense peddled by the hard left. The tactics of the hard left being used against them. Excuse me while I play a sad tune on this, the world's smallest violin.

kinabalu

Donald Trump has declared a National Emergency when there obviously is nothing of the sort. Any judge that finds otherwise is making him or herself look. .. well I won't say but it is not complimentary.

another_richard

Cyclefree said:

Another statement of the bleeding obvious (other than to our MPs, clearly) and something which has been said on here -

“Generally speaking , governments and parliaments are able to ratify to ratify international treaties. The fact that the UK is stuck and is unable to ratify this agreement creates huge difficulties for them, not just now but into also the future because part of the case for Brexit was that the UK would be able to strike trade deals with countries all over the world.

“But countries are looking at the UK and wondering is this a country that is going to be able to make agreements, ratify them and stick to them.”

By the Taoiseach, Varadkar.

I've said previously that the chances of parliament approving new trades are minimal.

Its a lot easier for politicians to oppose something than support something.

Sunil_Prasannan

FPT

Regarding seats at the UN: Not only did Russia inherit the former USSR seat, but Ukraine and Belarus also inherited theirs from the Ukrainian SSR and the Byelorussian SSR respectively. Both were UN members in their own right in 1945.

rottenborough

kinabalu said:

Donald Trump has declared a National Emergency when there obviously is nothing of the sort. Any judge that finds otherwise is making him or herself look. .. well I won't say but it is not complimentary.

That rather depends on the wording of the law though.

DavidL

SeanT said:

kyf_100 said:

SeanT said:

Karl Marx's grave is being targeted. Deep irony here.

https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1096800207772241922

Yes, it's utterly wrong and contemptible.

But as wrong as it is, it's the logical conclusion of the Rhodes Must Fall nonsense and all the other revisionist nonsense peddled by the hard left. The tactics of the hard left being used against them. Excuse me while I play a sad tune on this, the world's smallest violin.

Quite. I abhor this and any vandalism of London's cemeteries - they are one of its glories. But there was a kind of arrogance in thinking you could have this large and haughty grave, of all graves, right in the middle of the cemetery, and not in the end get some kickback - in the present climate of iconoclasm.

I suspect they will end up having to move it, or shield it with protective plastic/barriers etc.

It does remind you that the evil of communism has murdered multiple times those murdered in the name of the evil of facisism. I wonder whether posters on here who seem relatively proud of having been communists ever reflect on that.

Nigelb

kinabalu said:

Donald Trump has declared a National Emergency when there obviously is nothing of the sort. Any judge that finds otherwise is making him or herself look. .. well I won't say but it is not complimentary.

Politically, yes.
Legally a bit more complicated.

Morris_Dancer

Good afternoon, everyone.

About a quarter of the way through the third Stormlight Archives book. Rather liking it, though I was a bit late acquiring it.

TheJezziah

kyf_100 said:

SeanT said:

Karl Marx's grave is being targeted. Deep irony here.

https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1096800207772241922

Yes, it's utterly wrong and contemptible.

But as wrong as it is, it's the logical conclusion of the Rhodes Must Fall nonsense and all the other revisionist nonsense peddled by the hard left. The tactics of the hard left being used against them. Excuse me while I play a sad tune on this, the world's smallest violin.

Whilst I don't keep up with everyone's opinions have there been extensive calls on the left against Adam Smith having a grave?

TheJezziah

DavidL said:

SeanT said:

kyf_100 said:

SeanT said:

Karl Marx's grave is being targeted. Deep irony here.

https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1096800207772241922

Yes, it's utterly wrong and contemptible.

But as wrong as it is, it's the logical conclusion of the Rhodes Must Fall nonsense and all the other revisionist nonsense peddled by the hard left. The tactics of the hard left being used against them. Excuse me while I play a sad tune on this, the world's smallest violin.

Quite. I abhor this and any vandalism of London's cemeteries - they are one of its glories. But there was a kind of arrogance in thinking you could have this large and haughty grave, of all graves, right in the middle of the cemetery, and not in the end get some kickback - in the present climate of iconoclasm.

I suspect they will end up having to move it, or shield it with protective plastic/barriers etc.

It does remind you that the evil of communism has murdered multiple times those murdered in the name of the evil of facisism. I wonder whether posters on here who seem relatively proud of having been communists ever reflect on that.

I suspect they think they are as much to blame for those death tolls as you as a capitalist think you are to blame for Nazi German deaths.

DavidL

Morris_Dancer said:

Good afternoon, everyone.

About a quarter of the way through the third Stormlight Archives book. Rather liking it, though I was a bit late acquiring it.

After GoT I am a little reluctant to commit myself to a series that is not actually finished. Is this not supposed to be 10 books eventually?

geoffw

TheJezziah said:

kyf_100 said:

SeanT said:

Karl Marx's grave is being targeted. Deep irony here.

https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1096800207772241922

Yes, it's utterly wrong and contemptible.

But as wrong as it is, it's the logical conclusion of the Rhodes Must Fall nonsense and all the other revisionist nonsense peddled by the hard left. The tactics of the hard left being used against them. Excuse me while I play a sad tune on this, the world's smallest violin.

Whilst I don't keep up with everyone's opinions have there been extensive calls on the left against Adam Smith having a grave?

It's in the Canongate cemetary on the Royal Mile.
My colleague was looking for it in the 1970s and failing to find it asked the graveyard attendant - "Ah, the trombone player"

DavidL

TheJezziah said:

DavidL said:

SeanT said:

kyf_100 said:

SeanT said:

Karl Marx's grave is being targeted. Deep irony here.

https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1096800207772241922

Yes, it's utterly wrong and contemptible.

But as wrong as it is, it's the logical conclusion of the Rhodes Must Fall nonsense and all the other revisionist nonsense peddled by the hard left. The tactics of the hard left being used against them. Excuse me while I play a sad tune on this, the world's smallest violin.

Quite. I abhor this and any vandalism of London's cemeteries - they are one of its glories. But there was a kind of arrogance in thinking you could have this large and haughty grave, of all graves, right in the middle of the cemetery, and not in the end get some kickback - in the present climate of iconoclasm.

I suspect they will end up having to move it, or shield it with protective plastic/barriers etc.

It does remind you that the evil of communism has murdered multiple times those murdered in the name of the evil of facisism. I wonder whether posters on here who seem relatively proud of having been communists ever reflect on that.

I suspect they think they are as much to blame for those death tolls as you as a capitalist think you are to blame for Nazi German deaths.

Then they are wrong. Communism is evil. It is built on the premise of an excessively powerful state and a disregard for the individual. As is facisism, of course.

Sunil_Prasannan

TheJezziah said:

DavidL said:

SeanT said:

kyf_100 said:

SeanT said:

Karl Marx's grave is being targeted. Deep irony here.

https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1096800207772241922

Yes, it's utterly wrong and contemptible.

But as wrong as it is, it's the logical conclusion of the Rhodes Must Fall nonsense and all the other revisionist nonsense peddled by the hard left. The tactics of the hard left being used against them. Excuse me while I play a sad tune on this, the world's smallest violin.

Quite. I abhor this and any vandalism of London's cemeteries - they are one of its glories. But there was a kind of arrogance in thinking you could have this large and haughty grave, of all graves, right in the middle of the cemetery, and not in the end get some kickback - in the present climate of iconoclasm.

I suspect they will end up having to move it, or shield it with protective plastic/barriers etc.

It does remind you that the evil of communism has murdered multiple times those murdered in the name of the evil of facisism. I wonder whether posters on here who seem relatively proud of having been communists ever reflect on that.

I suspect they think they are as much to blame for those death tolls as you as a capitalist think you are to blame for Nazi German deaths.

The Nazis were against capitalists too! "Anglo-Saxon Plutocrats"

Morris_Dancer

Mr. L, I believe there is a 10 book plan.

Brandon Sanderson is annoyingly fast as a writer, but if you're concerned about delays you could always try the Mistborn trilogy (there's a trilogy and three stand-alones, I think, set in the same world).

That said, if people asked me for one fantasy recommendation I might well go for The First Law trilogy by Joe Abercrombie. On a related note, I blogged about some great fantasy samples I reviewed recently, which could give you some ideas, if you're after any:
http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.com/2019/02/snapshots-pick-of-bunch.html



Or buy The Bloody Crown Trilogy, by me, which has the third instalment likely out late March/April.

Floater

DavidL said:

SeanT said:

kyf_100 said:

SeanT said:

Karl Marx's grave is being targeted. Deep irony here.

https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1096800207772241922

Yes, it's utterly wrong and contemptible.

But as wrong as it is, it's the logical conclusion of the Rhodes Must Fall nonsense and all the other revisionist nonsense peddled by the hard left. The tactics of the hard left being used against them. Excuse me while I play a sad tune on this, the world's smallest violin.

Quite. I abhor this and any vandalism of London's cemeteries - they are one of its glories. But there was a kind of arrogance in thinking you could have this large and haughty grave, of all graves, right in the middle of the cemetery, and not in the end get some kickback - in the present climate of iconoclasm.

I suspect they will end up having to move it, or shield it with protective plastic/barriers etc.

It does remind you that the evil of communism has murdered multiple times those murdered in the name of the evil of facisism. I wonder whether posters on here who seem relatively proud of having been communists ever reflect on that.

Nope - next question

DavidL

geoffw said:

TheJezziah said:

kyf_100 said:

SeanT said:

Karl Marx's grave is being targeted. Deep irony here.

https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1096800207772241922

Yes, it's utterly wrong and contemptible.

But as wrong as it is, it's the logical conclusion of the Rhodes Must Fall nonsense and all the other revisionist nonsense peddled by the hard left. The tactics of the hard left being used against them. Excuse me while I play a sad tune on this, the world's smallest violin.

Whilst I don't keep up with everyone's opinions have there been extensive calls on the left against Adam Smith having a grave?

It's in the Canongate cemetary on the Royal Mile.
My colleague was looking for it in the 1970s and failing to find it asked the graveyard attendant - "Ah, the trombone player"

His statue on the Royal mile frequently has the adornment of a traffic cone.

rottenborough

https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1096751638478577665

Pineapple on pizza?

Or was that a 2018 cultural war issue?

TheJezziah

DavidL said:

TheJezziah said:

DavidL said:

SeanT said:

kyf_100 said:

SeanT said:

Karl Marx's grave is being targeted. Deep irony here.

https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1096800207772241922

Yes, it's utterly wrong and contemptible.

But as wrong as it is, it's the logical conclusion of the Rhodes Must Fall nonsense and all the other revisionist nonsense peddled by the hard left. The tactics of the hard left being used against them. Excuse me while I play a sad tune on this, the world's smallest violin.

Quite. I abhor this and any vandalism of London's cemeteries - they are one of its glories. But there was a kind of arrogance in thinking you could have this large and haughty grave, of all graves, right in the middle of the cemetery, and not in the end get some kickback - in the present climate of iconoclasm.

I suspect they will end up having to move it, or shield it with protective plastic/barriers etc.

It does remind you that the evil of communism has murdered multiple times those murdered in the name of the evil of facisism. I wonder whether posters on here who seem relatively proud of having been communists ever reflect on that.

I suspect they think they are as much to blame for those death tolls as you as a capitalist think you are to blame for Nazi German deaths.

Then they are wrong. Communism is evil. It is built on the premise of an excessively powerful state and a disregard for the individual. As is facisism, of course.

Ahh, they were the wrong kind of capitalists so don't count towards you feeling bad whereas of course anyone who calls themselves a communist should feel bad about the actions of anyone else communist, regardless of whether they feel they were the wrong kind of communist.

I guess it is sort of like no true Scotsman....

DavidL

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. L, I believe there is a 10 book plan.

Brandon Sanderson is annoyingly fast as a writer, but if you're concerned about delays you could always try the Mistborn trilogy (there's a trilogy and three stand-alones, I think, set in the same world).

That said, if people asked me for one fantasy recommendation I might well go for The First Law trilogy by Joe Abercrombie. On a related note, I blogged about some great fantasy samples I reviewed recently, which could give you some ideas, if you're after any:
http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.com/2019/02/snapshots-pick-of-bunch.html



Or buy The Bloody Crown Trilogy, by me, which has the third instalment likely out late March/April.

Just finished the All Souls trilogy. It was rather good.

Alistair

brokenwheel said:

Trump doesn't want to win in the Supreme Court. He certainly doesn't want a wall built, at least not until a second term. It's political capital; by keeping it in the zeitgeist he wins by getting the Democrats to show their true colours; the "progressive" Democratic candidates are falling over themselves to say they want to tear down the existing barriers. Americans may be ambivalent to the wall but they aren't open borders nutters.

If he had really wanted it he would have got it funded while Republicans held both houses. Of course the trouble for him is keeping his supporters on side despite the fact he's blatantly stalling.

Support for immigration in America is at its highesy ever levels. Over 70% in favour.

dixiedean

SeanT said:

TheJezziah said:

DavidL said:

SeanT said:

kyf_100 said:

SeanT said:

Karl Marx's grave is being targeted. Deep irony here.

https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1096800207772241922

Yes, it's utterly wrong and contemptible.

But as wrong as it is, it's the logical conclusion of the Rhodes Must Fall nonsense and all the other revisionist nonsense peddled by the hard left. The tactics of the hard left being used against them. Excuse me while I play a sad tune on this, the world's smallest violin.

Quite. I abhor this and any vandalism of London's cemeteries - they are one of its glories. But there was a kind of arrogance in thinking you could have this large and haughty grave, of all graves, right in the middle of the cemetery, and not in the end get some kickback - in the present climate of iconoclasm.

I suspect they will end up having to move it, or shield it with protective plastic/barriers etc.

It does remind you that the evil of communism has murdered multiple times those murdered in the name of the evil of facisism. I wonder whether posters on here who seem relatively proud of having been communists ever reflect on that.

I suspect they think they are as much to blame for those death tolls as you as a capitalist think you are to blame for Nazi German deaths.

In the end the only answer is for everyone's grave to be desecrated by everyone else, on the grounds that everyone has, at some point, had a sexist/racist thought, been in some way phobic, agreed with imperialism, Marxism, whatever. So ALL gravestones must be vandalised.

Indeed. Think I'll be cremated.

Theuniondivvie

DavidL said:

geoffw said:

TheJezziah said:

kyf_100 said:

SeanT said:

Karl Marx's grave is being targeted. Deep irony here.

https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1096800207772241922

Yes, it's utterly wrong and contemptible.

But as wrong as it is, it's the logical conclusion of the Rhodes Must Fall nonsense and all the other revisionist nonsense peddled by the hard left. The tactics of the hard left being used against them. Excuse me while I play a sad tune on this, the world's smallest violin.

Whilst I don't keep up with everyone's opinions have there been extensive calls on the left against Adam Smith having a grave?

It's in the Canongate cemetary on the Royal Mile.
My colleague was looking for it in the 1970s and failing to find it asked the graveyard attendant - "Ah, the trombone player"

His statue on the Royal mile frequently has the adornment of a traffic cone.

Where gallus Glasgow goes, rabbity Edinburgh follows.

DavidL

dixiedean said:

SeanT said:

TheJezziah said:

DavidL said:

SeanT said:

kyf_100 said:

SeanT said:

Karl Marx's grave is being targeted. Deep irony here.

https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1096800207772241922

Yes, it's utterly wrong and contemptible.

But as wrong as it is, it's the logical conclusion of the Rhodes Must Fall nonsense and all the other revisionist nonsense peddled by the hard left. The tactics of the hard left being used against them. Excuse me while I play a sad tune on this, the world's smallest violin.

Quite. I abhor this and any vandalism of London's cemeteries - they are one of its glories. But there was a kind of arrogance in thinking you could have this large and haughty grave, of all graves, right in the middle of the cemetery, and not in the end get some kickback - in the present climate of iconoclasm.

I suspect they will end up having to move it, or shield it with protective plastic/barriers etc.

It does remind you that the evil of communism has murdered multiple times those murdered in the name of the evil of facisism. I wonder whether posters on here who seem relatively proud of having been communists ever reflect on that.

I suspect they think they are as much to blame for those death tolls as you as a capitalist think you are to blame for Nazi German deaths.

In the end the only answer is for everyone's grave to be desecrated by everyone else, on the grounds that everyone has, at some point, had a sexist/racist thought, been in some way phobic, agreed with imperialism, Marxism, whatever. So ALL gravestones must be vandalised.

Indeed. Think I'll be cremated.

Black bin bag would do me.

Sunil_Prasannan

DavidL said:

geoffw said:

TheJezziah said:

kyf_100 said:

SeanT said:

Karl Marx's grave is being targeted. Deep irony here.

https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1096800207772241922

Yes, it's utterly wrong and contemptible.

But as wrong as it is, it's the logical conclusion of the Rhodes Must Fall nonsense and all the other revisionist nonsense peddled by the hard left. The tactics of the hard left being used against them. Excuse me while I play a sad tune on this, the world's smallest violin.

Whilst I don't keep up with everyone's opinions have there been extensive calls on the left against Adam Smith having a grave?

It's in the Canongate cemetary on the Royal Mile.
My colleague was looking for it in the 1970s and failing to find it asked the graveyard attendant - "Ah, the trombone player"

His statue on the Royal mile frequently has the adornment of a traffic cone.

No that's Wellington in Glasgow

SirNorfolkPassmore

I'm not at all sure Roberts is the swing justice on this.

For a thinking, minimal state conservative, letting this pass would be a disaster. Trump has invented the concept of a non-emergency emergency, but a future big state liberal will get the real mileage out of it. It would not for one moment surprise me if Kavanaugh ironically kills this.

AndyJS

SeanT said:

Karl Marx's grave is being targeted. Deep irony here.

https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1096800207772241922

Well, thanks very much (not) to the idiots who did this, it probably means that ordinary people won't be able to walk around the cemetery in future with the same freedom that we've able to do up to now. Morons.

TheJezziah

SeanT said:

TheJezziah said:

DavidL said:

SeanT said:

kyf_100 said:

SeanT said:

Karl Marx's grave is being targeted. Deep irony here.

https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1096800207772241922

Yes, it's utterly wrong and contemptible.

But as wrong as it is, it's the logical conclusion of the Rhodes Must Fall nonsense and all the other revisionist nonsense peddled by the hard left. The tactics of the hard left being used against them. Excuse me while I play a sad tune on this, the world's smallest violin.

Quite. I abhor this and any vandalism of London's cemeteries - they are one of its glories. But there was a kind of arrogance in thinking you could have this large and haughty grave, of all graves, right in the middle of the cemetery, and not in the end get some kickback - in the present climate of iconoclasm.

I suspect they will end up having to move it, or shield it with protective plastic/barriers etc.

It does remind you that the evil of communism has murdered multiple times those murdered in the name of the evil of facisism. I wonder whether posters on here who seem relatively proud of having been communists ever reflect on that.

I suspect they think they are as much to blame for those death tolls as you as a capitalist think you are to blame for Nazi German deaths.

In the end the only answer is for everyone's grave to be desecrated by everyone else, on the grounds that everyone has, at some point, had a sexist/racist thought, been in some way phobic, agreed with imperialism, Marxism, whatever. So ALL gravestones must be vandalised.

Surely the point kyf was missing is that statues of various people being taken down or not do not equate to vandalising the graves of people like Adam Smith or Karl Marx.

And my point was those who aren't terribly unhappy about his grave being vandalised or talk about it being tactics used against people wouldn't feel similarly about the same to Smith's grave.

It isn't worth getting wound up about though and I suspect that was the idea behind it.

Alistair

kyf_100 said:

SeanT said:

Karl Marx's grave is being targeted. Deep irony here.

https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1096800207772241922

Yes, it's utterly wrong and contemptible.

But as wrong as it is, it's the logical conclusion of the Rhodes Must Fall nonsense and all the other revisionist nonsense peddled by the hard left. The tactics of the hard left being used against them. Excuse me while I play a sad tune on this, the world's smallest violin.

I find it hard to compare philosophical thinker Karl Marx with massive racist Cecil Rhodes.

kyf_100

Alistair said:

kyf_100 said:

SeanT said:

Karl Marx's grave is being targeted. Deep irony here.

https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1096800207772241922

Yes, it's utterly wrong and contemptible.

But as wrong as it is, it's the logical conclusion of the Rhodes Must Fall nonsense and all the other revisionist nonsense peddled by the hard left. The tactics of the hard left being used against them. Excuse me while I play a sad tune on this, the world's smallest violin.

I find it hard to compare philosophical thinker Karl Marx with massive racist Cecil Rhodes.

Yes, you're right. Marx killed far more people.

Sunil_Prasannan

Alistair said:

kyf_100 said:

SeanT said:

Karl Marx's grave is being targeted. Deep irony here.

https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1096800207772241922

Yes, it's utterly wrong and contemptible.

But as wrong as it is, it's the logical conclusion of the Rhodes Must Fall nonsense and all the other revisionist nonsense peddled by the hard left. The tactics of the hard left being used against them. Excuse me while I play a sad tune on this, the world's smallest violin.

I find it hard to compare philosophical thinker Karl Marx with massive racist Cecil Rhodes.

Did Rhodes kill 66,000,000?

Morris_Dancer

Mr. L, not heard of that. Fantasy, I take it?

TheJezziah

TBH I think some people are slightly confused about who Karl Marx is...

Philip_Thompson

Alistair said:

kyf_100 said:

SeanT said:

Karl Marx's grave is being targeted. Deep irony here.

https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1096800207772241922

Yes, it's utterly wrong and contemptible.

But as wrong as it is, it's the logical conclusion of the Rhodes Must Fall nonsense and all the other revisionist nonsense peddled by the hard left. The tactics of the hard left being used against them. Excuse me while I play a sad tune on this, the world's smallest violin.

I find it hard to compare philosophical thinker Karl Marx with massive racist Cecil Rhodes.

You're right Marx is worse by an order of magnitude.

Doesn't justify this.

brokenwheel

Alistair said:

brokenwheel said:

Trump doesn't want to win in the Supreme Court. He certainly doesn't want a wall built, at least not until a second term. It's political capital; by keeping it in the zeitgeist he wins by getting the Democrats to show their true colours; the "progressive" Democratic candidates are falling over themselves to say they want to tear down the existing barriers. Americans may be ambivalent to the wall but they aren't open borders nutters.

If he had really wanted it he would have got it funded while Republicans held both houses. Of course the trouble for him is keeping his supporters on side despite the fact he's blatantly stalling.

Support for immigration in America is at its highesy ever levels. Over 70% in favour.

Legal migration.

Theuniondivvie

TheJezziah said:

TBH I think some people are slightly confused about who Karl Marx is...

Apparently he was some kind of demonic spirit that possessed the bodies of Lenin, Stalin and Mao and made them order the deaths of millions. That's some spooky story.

Sunil_Prasannan

brokenwheel said:

Alistair said:

brokenwheel said:

Trump doesn't want to win in the Supreme Court. He certainly doesn't want a wall built, at least not until a second term. It's political capital; by keeping it in the zeitgeist he wins by getting the Democrats to show their true colours; the "progressive" Democratic candidates are falling over themselves to say they want to tear down the existing barriers. Americans may be ambivalent to the wall but they aren't open borders nutters.

If he had really wanted it he would have got it funded while Republicans held both houses. Of course the trouble for him is keeping his supporters on side despite the fact he's blatantly stalling.

Support for immigration in America is at its highesy ever levels. Over 70% in favour.

Legal migration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz20lu2AM2k

Philip_Thompson

rottenborough said:

https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1096751638478577665

Pineapple on pizza?

Or was that a 2018 cultural war issue?

No it's just delicious.

Sunil_Prasannan

Theuniondivvie said:

TheJezziah said:

TBH I think some people are slightly confused about who Karl Marx is...

Apparently he was some kind of demonic spirit that possessed the bodies of Lenin, Stalin and Mao and made them order the deaths of millions. That's some spooky story.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism

TheJezziah

Theuniondivvie said:

TheJezziah said:

TBH I think some people are slightly confused about who Karl Marx is...

Apparently he was some kind of demonic spirit that possessed the bodies of Lenin, Stalin and Mao and made them order the deaths of millions. That's some spooky story.

At least it makes some kind of sense now, he is (maybe was) an evil ghost man.

I was worried it wasn't based on any kind of logic.

Sunil_Prasannan

TheJezziah said:

Theuniondivvie said:

TheJezziah said:

TBH I think some people are slightly confused about who Karl Marx is...

Apparently he was some kind of demonic spirit that possessed the bodies of Lenin, Stalin and Mao and made them order the deaths of millions. That's some spooky story.

At least it makes some kind of sense now, he is (maybe was) an evil ghost man.

I was worried it wasn't based on any kind of logic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism

SandyRentool

SeanT said:

TheJezziah said:

TBH I think some people are slightly confused about who Karl Marx is...

I know who he is, he is the guy who wrote THIS in 1848:

“there is only one way in which the murderous death agonies of the old society and the bloody birth throes of the new society can be shortened, simplified and concentrated, and that way is revolutionary terror.”

So, yeah, he is a bit different to "Adam Smith", unless Smith wrote secret tracts advocating mass murder. Did he? I can also see why Marx's pompous, lofty grave might annoy quite a few people, quite a lot, though I really wish they hadn't indulged in this stupid, pointless vandalism, which serves no purpose.

Christ, that quote makes Marx sound almost as bad as Churchill.

TheJezziah

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TheJezziah said:

Theuniondivvie said:

TheJezziah said:

TBH I think some people are slightly confused about who Karl Marx is...

Apparently he was some kind of demonic spirit that possessed the bodies of Lenin, Stalin and Mao and made them order the deaths of millions. That's some spooky story.

At least it makes some kind of sense now, he is (maybe was) an evil ghost man.

I was worried it wasn't based on any kind of logic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism

I seem to have triggered the Sunil bot into repetition....

I believe he is trying to communicate but not quite getting there.

OldKingCole

Philip_Thompson said:

rottenborough said:

https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1096751638478577665

Pineapple on pizza?

Or was that a 2018 cultural war issue?

No it's just delicious.

Can't remember what I was watching but that was suggested on a food programme of some sort recently and 'horror was expressed'

Justifiably, too, IMHO.

DavidL

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. L, not heard of that. Fantasy, I take it?

Sort of. Witches and vampires. Sky made a series of book 1 which I rather liked so tried the books.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. L, not dead against that, but witches and vampires aren't my usual fare (nor modern settings).

Next book I'll probably get will be volumes 1-3 of the Black Gate Chronicles. Really enjoyed the sample, which was something daft like 40,000 words.

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/BeardedGenius/status/1096753669368881152

FrancisUrquhart

Have we done this? Seems kinda of important....

Brexit: Macron backs legally binding concessions to Irish backstop

Senior European diplomats said that the government would be given enough in the way of legal assurances to persuade Geoffrey Cox, the attorney-general, to change his legal advice. He has previously warned that the backstop could be used trap Britain in a customs union. “There will be sufficient changes to allow Mr Cox to give a pass to the agreement,” said a veteran European ambassador, who said France now supported possible new concessions.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-macron-backs-legally-binding-concessions-to-irish-backstop-3c0snmnqk

I might not be forced to drink boxed wine after all.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Urquhart, was Macron threatening to compel you to drink boxed wine?

I feel like I missed a meeting.

FrancisUrquhart

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Urquhart, was Macron threatening to compel you to drink boxed wine?

I feel like I missed a meeting.

Post no-deal shortages and all that.

BTW, have you seen that crazy new wing design on the Alfa F1 car?

OldKingCole

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Alistair said:

kyf_100 said:

SeanT said:

Karl Marx's grave is being targeted. Deep irony here.

https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1096800207772241922

Yes, it's utterly wrong and contemptible.

But as wrong as it is, it's the logical conclusion of the Rhodes Must Fall nonsense and all the other revisionist nonsense peddled by the hard left. The tactics of the hard left being used against them. Excuse me while I play a sad tune on this, the world's smallest violin.

I find it hard to compare philosophical thinker Karl Marx with massive racist Cecil Rhodes.

Did Rhodes kill 66,000,000?

But proportionately, looking at the South African population..........

MarqueeMark

FrancisUrquhart said:

Have we done this? Seems kinda of important....

Brexit: Macron backs legally binding concessions to Irish backstop

Senior European diplomats said that the government would be given enough in the way of legal assurances to persuade Geoffrey Cox, the attorney-general, to change his legal advice. He has previously warned that the backstop could be used trap Britain in a customs union. “There will be sufficient changes to allow Mr Cox to give a pass to the agreement,” said a veteran European ambassador, who said France now supported possible new concessions.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-macron-backs-legally-binding-concessions-to-irish-backstop-3c0snmnqk

I might not be forced to drink boxed wine after all.

I posted it this morning, provoking considerable "meh".....

Doesn't fit the"we're all going TO DIE!!!" narrative, it seems.

DavidL

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. L, not dead against that, but witches and vampires aren't my usual fare (nor modern settings).

Next book I'll probably get will be volumes 1-3 of the Black Gate Chronicles. Really enjoyed the sample, which was something daft like 40,000 words.

Book 2 is set in Elizabethan times. I appreciate that might still be a bit modern but the author is a serious historian of that period.

FrancisUrquhart

MarqueeMark said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Have we done this? Seems kinda of important....

Brexit: Macron backs legally binding concessions to Irish backstop

Senior European diplomats said that the government would be given enough in the way of legal assurances to persuade Geoffrey Cox, the attorney-general, to change his legal advice. He has previously warned that the backstop could be used trap Britain in a customs union. “There will be sufficient changes to allow Mr Cox to give a pass to the agreement,” said a veteran European ambassador, who said France now supported possible new concessions.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-macron-backs-legally-binding-concessions-to-irish-backstop-3c0snmnqk

I might not be forced to drink boxed wine after all.

I posted it this morning, provoking considerable "meh".....

Doesn't fit the"we're all going TO DIE!!!" narrative, it seems.

Seems like the classic EU fudge to me. We aren't negotiating, we are "clarifying". Does that not do enough to calm the Tories backbenches?

SandyRentool

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/BeardedGenius/status/1096753669368881152

Is that street named after Oswald?

MarqueeMark

FrancisUrquhart said:

MarqueeMark said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Have we done this? Seems kinda of important....

Brexit: Macron backs legally binding concessions to Irish backstop

Senior European diplomats said that the government would be given enough in the way of legal assurances to persuade Geoffrey Cox, the attorney-general, to change his legal advice. He has previously warned that the backstop could be used trap Britain in a customs union. “There will be sufficient changes to allow Mr Cox to give a pass to the agreement,” said a veteran European ambassador, who said France now supported possible new concessions.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-macron-backs-legally-binding-concessions-to-irish-backstop-3c0snmnqk

I might not be forced to drink boxed wine after all.

I posted it this morning, provoking considerable "meh".....

Doesn't fit the"we're all going TO DIE!!!" narrative, it seems.

Seems like the classic EU fudge to me. We aren't negotiating, we are "clarifying". Does that not do enough to calm the Tories backbenches?

If not, they deserve to be beaten around the head with inflated puffer fish.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Urquhart, ah. Well, that's the advantage of having a small army of enormo-haddock to smuggle in goods.

And no, I haven't.

*goes to have a quick look*

Hmm. Is it drastically dissimilar to other front wings?

Mr. L, that reminds me an Ann Swinfen book, The Secret World of Christoval Alvarez, which I bought for... er... someone.

The Elizabethan setting seem quite popular for alternate history. Anne Lyle's Alchemist of Souls was set then, but Elizabeth had two sons, and there were some non-humans about in London.

NeilVW

MarqueeMark said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Have we done this? Seems kinda of important....

Brexit: Macron backs legally binding concessions to Irish backstop

Senior European diplomats said that the government would be given enough in the way of legal assurances to persuade Geoffrey Cox, the attorney-general, to change his legal advice. He has previously warned that the backstop could be used trap Britain in a customs union. “There will be sufficient changes to allow Mr Cox to give a pass to the agreement,” said a veteran European ambassador, who said France now supported possible new concessions.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-macron-backs-legally-binding-concessions-to-irish-backstop-3c0snmnqk

I might not be forced to drink boxed wine after all.

I posted it this morning, provoking considerable "meh".....

Doesn't fit the"we're all going TO DIE!!!" narrative, it seems.

Jeremy Corbyn is also due in Brussels for talks with Mr Barnier on Thursday amid growing suspicion of the Labour leader in EU circles. While Donald Tusk, the president of the European Council, said that Mr Corbyn’s Brexit plan was “a promising way out of the impasse”, other officials were more scathing. “His policy is laughed at,” said a senior British source involved in talks.

Theuniondivvie

SandyRentool said:

SeanT said:

TheJezziah said:

TBH I think some people are slightly confused about who Karl Marx is...

I know who he is, he is the guy who wrote THIS in 1848:

“there is only one way in which the murderous death agonies of the old society and the bloody birth throes of the new society can be shortened, simplified and concentrated, and that way is revolutionary terror.”

So, yeah, he is a bit different to "Adam Smith", unless Smith wrote secret tracts advocating mass murder. Did he? I can also see why Marx's pompous, lofty grave might annoy quite a few people, quite a lot, though I really wish they hadn't indulged in this stupid, pointless vandalism, which serves no purpose.

Christ, that quote makes Marx sound almost as bad as Churchill.

Strangely ole Winny seems to have thought Marx's Jewishness was more relevant to his contribution to the horror that was Bolshevism than the wacky revolutionary terror stuff.

'International Jews

In violent opposition to all this sphere of Jewish effort rise the schemes of the International Jews. The adherents of this sinister confederacy are mostly men reared up among the unhappy populations of countries where Jews are persecuted on account of their race. Most, if not all, of them have forsaken the faith of their forefathers, and divorced from their minds all spiritual hopes of the next world. This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognizable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire.'

If one didn't know better, one might think that could have come from the pen of another ambitious thrusting young politician of 1920.

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/gtconway3d/status/1096545600735232000

Scott_P

MarqueeMark said:

If not, they deserve to be beaten around the head with inflated puffer fish.

https://twitter.com/DannyDutch/status/1096333538557874177

brokenwheel

SandyRentool said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/BeardedGenius/status/1096753669368881152

Is that street named after Oswald?

A distant relative.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Mosley_(mayor)

geoffw

DavidL said:

geoffw said:

TheJezziah said:

kyf_100 said:

SeanT said:

Karl Marx's grave is being targeted. Deep irony here.

https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1096800207772241922

Yes, it's utterly wrong and contemptible.

But as wrong as it is, it's the logical conclusion of the Rhodes Must Fall nonsense and all the other revisionist nonsense peddled by the hard left. The tactics of the hard left being used against them. Excuse me while I play a sad tune on this, the world's smallest violin.

Whilst I don't keep up with everyone's opinions have there been extensive calls on the left against Adam Smith having a grave?

It's in the Canongate cemetary on the Royal Mile.
My colleague was looking for it in the 1970s and failing to find it asked the graveyard attendant - "Ah, the trombone player"

His statue on the Royal mile frequently has the adornment of a traffic cone.

I didn't know he had one.
Do you mean David Hume's?

Pulpstar

The best outcome for Trump-2020 could be a 4-5 decision that denies funding given Bader Ginsburg has said she'll retire when she is 90.

DavidL

geoffw said:

DavidL said:

geoffw said:

TheJezziah said:

kyf_100 said:

SeanT said:

Karl Marx's grave is being targeted. Deep irony here.

https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1096800207772241922

Yes, it's utterly wrong and contemptible.

But as wrong as it is, it's the logical conclusion of the Rhodes Must Fall nonsense and all the other revisionist nonsense peddled by the hard left. The tactics of the hard left being used against them. Excuse me while I play a sad tune on this, the world's smallest violin.

Whilst I don't keep up with everyone's opinions have there been extensive calls on the left against Adam Smith having a grave?

It's in the Canongate cemetary on the Royal Mile.
My colleague was looking for it in the 1970s and failing to find it asked the graveyard attendant - "Ah, the trombone player"

His statue on the Royal mile frequently has the adornment of a traffic cone.

I didn't know he had one.
Do you mean David Hume's?

No, although he is similarly (if rather more easily) honoured. Hume is sitting outside the High Court. Smith is standing near the Mercat Cross.
http://www.royal-mile.com/interest/statue-adamsmith.html

Recidivist

SeanT said:

Karl Marx's grave is being targeted. Deep irony here.

https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1096800207772241922

What is the irony?

TheJezziah

SeanT said:

TheJezziah said:

TBH I think some people are slightly confused about who Karl Marx is...

I know who he is, he is the guy who wrote THIS in 1848:

“there is only one way in which the murderous death agonies of the old society and the bloody birth throes of the new society can be shortened, simplified and concentrated, and that way is revolutionary terror.”

So, yeah, he is a bit different to "Adam Smith", unless Smith wrote secret tracts advocating mass murder. Did he? I can also see why Marx's pompous, lofty grave might annoy quite a few people, quite a lot, though I really wish they hadn't indulged in this stupid, pointless vandalism, which serves no purpose.

Have you read it in context or just done some quick googling and found a quick snippet to justify your thoughts?

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/11/06.htm

It justifies the actions of the likes of Stalin about as much as Smith justifies the slave trade.

FrancisUrquhart

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Urquhart, ah. Well, that's the advantage of having a small army of enormo-haddock to smuggle in goods.

And no, I haven't.

*goes to have a quick look*

Hmm. Is it drastically dissimilar to other front wings?

Mr. L, that reminds me an Ann Swinfen book, The Secret World of Christoval Alvarez, which I bought for... er... someone.

The Elizabethan setting seem quite popular for alternate history. Anne Lyle's Alchemist of Souls was set then, but Elizabeth had two sons, and there were some non-humans about in London.

Autosport's Technical Editor Jake Boxall-Legge joins Glenn Freeman to analyse what the pictures reveal about Alfa's challenger, which features what he describes as "the strangest 2019 front wing we've seen so far".

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/formula-one-alfa-romeo-wing-explained-video/4337903/

Pulpstar

First piece of the jigsaw as the wise author of this piece predicted - challenge in the courts
https://www.theepochtimes.com/aclu-files-lawsuit-against-president-trump-for-illegal-national-emergency_2802997.html?fbclid=IwAR3DHAn4JHJAzVrYh9AraOxSwF_6uA7q2r7PgmA5hLOVbY96SSMMBVMy66I

SandyRentool

brokenwheel said:

SandyRentool said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/BeardedGenius/status/1096753669368881152

Is that street named after Oswald?

A distant relative.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Mosley_(mayor)

Close enough. Time to start a Twatter campaign to have it renamed to Engelsstrasse.

rcs1000

I wouldn't bet on Gorsush supporting a Presidential power grab either.

My guess, for what it's worth, is that the four liberals would vote against the legality of the Executive Order, while there would be a separately written opposition from Roberts and Gorusch.

But.

And, I think this is really important, Trump wants to be stopped on this. This is like abortion, only reversed. Nothing would be better for Trump's electoral chances than the forces of the establishment conspiring to use the courts to thwart the peoples' will.

(Conversely, conservatives should fear the effective repeal of Roe vs Wade. Nothing would increase liberal turnout more than a requirement to go to the ballot boxes for abortion rights.)

Pulpstar

DavidL said:

To take a specific example I would be surprised if Thomas backs this.

If Thomas won't back Trump it'll be a 9-0 walloping. RBG and the other 3 more liberal justices definitely won't.

geoffw

DavidL said:

geoffw said:

DavidL said:

geoffw said:

TheJezziah said:

kyf_100 said:

SeanT said:

Karl Marx's grave is being targeted. Deep irony here.

https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1096800207772241922

Yes, it's utterly wrong and contemptible.

But as wrong as it is, it's the logical conclusion of the Rhodes Must Fall nonsense and all the other revisionist nonsense peddled by the hard left. The tactics of the hard left being used against them. Excuse me while I play a sad tune on this, the world's smallest violin.

Whilst I don't keep up with everyone's opinions have there been extensive calls on the left against Adam Smith having a grave?

It's in the Canongate cemetary on the Royal Mile.
My colleague was looking for it in the 1970s and failing to find it asked the graveyard attendant - "Ah, the trombone player"

His statue on the Royal mile frequently has the adornment of a traffic cone.

I didn't know he had one.
Do you mean David Hume's?

No, although he is similarly (if rather more easily) honoured. Hume is sitting outside the High Court. Smith is standing near the Mercat Cross.
http://www.royal-mile.com/interest/statue-adamsmith.html

Jeez. Shame on me (as an economist).