(Incidentally I think we can add the rights and responsibilities of the Speaker's Chair to the bumper book of Things Mrs Leadsom Does Not Understand).
He's an odious little twerp. Once again Leadsom is thoroughly sound. The extent to which she's attacked by remainers is a measure of how afraid they are of her. See also Rees Mogg.
"Once again Leadsom is thoroughly sound."
ha haha hahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Case in point.
Afraid of Leadsom? Wasn't she senior partner of Goldman Sachs?
What does that have to do with anything?
"According to a former colleague who admitted to not knowing her personally, "the problem about these claims[clarification needed] is that they risk misleading people into believing that she has finance management skills and experience which qualify her for senior posts in government"; her actual job was to work (sometimes part-time) on “special projects”, mostly for the Chief Investment Officer, which included negotiating pay terms for senior fund managers. Towards the end of her time, she advised on a number of governance issues, but she had no-one reporting to her in either role"
I sense that the 48 letters are finally in. I think that TM's plan to run the clock down and force an eventual gun-to-head choice between her deal and WTO crash and burn has spooked some remainers to act and that plus the ERG usuals has done the trick. So 2 burning questions arise:
- Will she win the subsequent VONC among tory MPs?
- If she does not, will those self same tory MPs keep BoJo out of the final 2?
If the answers are NO and NO, we are looking at a very grim prospect indeed.
It is an organisation based on pragmatism and compromise. It is the ultimate antidote to despotism, which is one of it's main raison d'etre. It is why all the pathetic little twerps like Jacob Rees Mogg despise it so much. They like more of a firm hand from Nanny or the person they are fagging for.
In a hung parliament it's difficult to see how a leadership election could be allowed to go to the membership.
Indeed but you never can be sure. Even if the vast bulk of Tory MPs and the main contenders agree on a coronation of some unifying figure (Gove?), it only takes one other potential candidate to decide to have a go for it to trigger a full contest. Given the utter shambles of indisciplined, ego-driven civil war being displayed at the moment, you can't rule out such a contest.
Hey, Beverley, don't worry! Me and my squad of ultimate Brexiteers will protect you! Check it out. Independently targeting particle-beam phalanx. WHAP! Fry half a city with this puppy. We got tactical smart missiles, phase plasma pulse rifles, RPGs. We got sonic, electronic ball-breakers! We got nukes, we got knives, sharp sticks...
DO not be so daft Sunil - those are only weapons. The swivel-eyed loon, ultra-nutter brigade have a Brexit and they are not afraid to use it.
Destruction down to the level of quarks. Only a seething mass of electron plasma and high-energy photons will remain....
I sense that the 48 letters are finally in. I think that TM's plan to run the clock down and force an eventual gun-to-head choice between her deal and WTO crash and burn has spooked some remainers to act and that plus the ERG usuals has done the trick. So 2 burning questions arise:
- Will she win the subsequent VONC among tory MPs?
- If she does not, will those self same tory MPs keep BoJo out of the final 2?
If the answers are NO and NO, we are looking at a very grim prospect indeed.
In a hung parliament it's difficult to see how a leadership election could be allowed to go to the membership.
Indeed but you never can be sure. Even if the vast bulk of Tory MPs and the main contenders agree on a coronation of some unifying figure (Gove?), it only takes one potential candidate to decide to have a go for it to trigger a full contest. Given the utter shambles of indisciplined, ego-driven civil war being displayed at the moment, you can't rule out such a contest.
The last two years have shown us that Raab, Johnson and Hannan have not the first clue how the EU works. They are ignorant, self-serving, malicious and damaging. At least Gove has tried to do something worthwhile at DEFRA. The rest of them are a useless waste of space.
I say we nuke Westminster from orbit - it's the only way to be sure
In a hung parliament it's difficult to see how a leadership election could be allowed to go to the membership.
Indeed but you never can be sure. Even if the vast bulk of Tory MPs and the main contenders agree on a coronation of some unifying figure (Gove?), it only takes one potential candidate to decide to have a go for it to trigger a full contest. Given the utter shambles of indisciplined, ego-driven civil war being displayed at the moment, you can't rule out such a contest.
Sounds like you're talking about Boris.
Boris? Why would you think I was referring to him? :InnocentFace
All those MPs of others demanding this, that and the other and clearly not understanding the difference between a transitional agreement and the permanent FTA between the UK and the EU should listen to the German MEP interviewed on today's WATO. He puts many of our legislators to shame.
Many sane Tory MPs (yes there still are some) are at their wits' end trying to point out to their colleagues just this. The WA is the WA. Different from any future FTA.
The problem is that the WA is supposed to be temporary but the backstop is permanent.
Yes I understand that. I understand the objection but it is not seeing the wood for the trees. It is in everyone's best interest to conclude an FTA as soon as possible. For the EU because they think we are cherry-picking and for us because of, well, the backstop which irritates some folk.
But it is a staging post which all sides want to move on from as soon as possible.
The Cons MP Brexiters are not even clever enough to understand that the EU dislikes the deal that the UK has got intensely.
Plus, of course, as I have pointed out a zillion times, there simply cannot not be a backstop so it's just as well that it will be redundant in a year or two or three.
Given that the backstop allows the EU to use access to the UK market in its trade deals, I have no faith that they will "want to move on from it as soon as possible".
I understand that also - but first it is reciprocal and secondly it is deeply suboptimal from their perspective as it allows us to avoid the many obligations that other members are subject to. I can't see them wanting to drag the negotiations on longer than necessary.
But as I said, the backstop is a sine qua non and hence it's just as well that both sides (IMO) want to transition out of the WA as soon as possible.
Question to my fellow centrists...given the choice, who do you despise the most, Jacob Rees Mogg who would wreck the country with his vacuous stupidity and utopian Brexit, or Jeremy "2Es" Corbyn with his equally vacuous stupidity and his utopian Venezuelan socialism?
Hey, Beverley, don't worry! Me and my squad of ultimate Brexiteers will protect you! Check it out. Independently targeting particle-beam phalanx. WHAP! Fry half a city with this puppy. We got tactical smart missiles, phase plasma pulse rifles, RPGs. We got sonic, electronic ball-breakers! We got nukes, we got knives, sharp sticks...
DO not be so daft Sunil - those are only weapons. The swivel-eyed loon, ultra-nutter brigade have a Brexit and they are not afraid to use it.
Destruction down to the level of quarks. Only a seething mass of electron plasma and high-energy photons will remain....
Ress-Mogg - a weaponised mixture of strangeness and charm.
In a hung parliament it's difficult to see how a leadership election could be allowed to go to the membership.
Indeed but you never can be sure. Even if the vast bulk of Tory MPs and the main contenders agree on a coronation of some unifying figure (Gove?), it only takes one potential candidate to decide to have a go for it to trigger a full contest. Given the utter shambles of indisciplined, ego-driven civil war being displayed at the moment, you can't rule out such a contest.
Sounds like you're talking about Boris.
Boris? Why would you think I was referring to him? :InnocentFace
Mind you given the state of their relationship I can see David Cameron not being helpful if there is a Gove coronation in the offing.
Yes I understand that. I understand the objection but it is not seeing the wood for the trees. It is in everyone's best interest to conclude an FTA as soon as possible. For the EU because they think we are cherry-picking and for us because of, well, the backstop which irritates some folk.
I think the EU's protestations would have more merit if they hadn't trapped Turkey in just such a backstop for over 30 years.
Question to my fellow centrists...given the choice, who do you despise the most, Jacob Rees Mogg who would wreck the country with his vacuous stupidity and utopian Brexit, or Jeremy "2Es" Corbyn with his equally vacuous stupidity and his utopian Venezuelan socialism?
Both of them speak to their own audience and poalarise everyone else.
In a hung parliament it's difficult to see how a leadership election could be allowed to go to the membership.
Indeed but you never can be sure. Even if the vast bulk of Tory MPs and the main contenders agree on a coronation of some unifying figure (Gove?), it only takes one potential candidate to decide to have a go for it to trigger a full contest. Given the utter shambles of indisciplined, ego-driven civil war being displayed at the moment, you can't rule out such a contest.
Sounds like you're talking about Boris.
Boris? Why would you think I was referring to him? :InnocentFace
Maybe Boris should lead Gove's campaign, and then knife him at the last moment.
Hey, Beverley, don't worry! Me and my squad of ultimate Brexiteers will protect you! Check it out. Independently targeting particle-beam phalanx. WHAP! Fry half a city with this puppy. We got tactical smart missiles, phase plasma pulse rifles, RPGs. We got sonic, electronic ball-breakers! We got nukes, we got knives, sharp sticks...
DO not be so daft Sunil - those are only weapons. The swivel-eyed loon, ultra-nutter brigade have a Brexit and they are not afraid to use it.
Destruction down to the level of quarks. Only a seething mass of electron plasma and high-energy photons will remain....
In a hung parliament it's difficult to see how a leadership election could be allowed to go to the membership.
Indeed but you never can be sure. Even if the vast bulk of Tory MPs and the main contenders agree on a coronation of some unifying figure (Gove?), it only takes one potential candidate to decide to have a go for it to trigger a full contest. Given the utter shambles of indisciplined, ego-driven civil war being displayed at the moment, you can't rule out such a contest.
Sounds like you're talking about Boris.
Boris? Why would you think I was referring to him? :InnocentFace
Mind you given the state of their relationship I can see David Cameron not being helpful if there is a Gove coronation in the offing.
What would be the point of a Gove coronation? If he tries to implement any form of Brexit his role in the campaign will just be hammered by everyone and the opposition will be overwhelming.
Question to my fellow centrists...given the choice, who do you despise the most, Jacob Rees Mogg who would wreck the country with his vacuous stupidity and utopian Brexit, or Jeremy "2Es" Corbyn with his equally vacuous stupidity and his utopian Venezuelan socialism?
We cannot have a Labour government. Under Jezza and his mates.
Question to my fellow centrists...given the choice, who do you despise the most, Jacob Rees Mogg who would wreck the country with his vacuous stupidity and utopian Brexit, or Jeremy "2Es" Corbyn with his equally vacuous stupidity and his utopian Venezuelan socialism?
Both of them speak to their own audience and poalarise everyone else.
If JRM becomes PM then Corbyn will win the next election.
Could be the biggest swing in ideology in Downing Street since...
If only we could. Because, oh my sweet lord, what a thought. Trump in the WH and Boris at number 10. That is a double whammy that I for one would struggle emotionally with. I might start questioning what the point of everything really is.
In a hung parliament it's difficult to see how a leadership election could be allowed to go to the membership.
Indeed but you never can be sure. Even if the vast bulk of Tory MPs and the main contenders agree on a coronation of some unifying figure (Gove?), it only takes one potential candidate to decide to have a go for it to trigger a full contest. Given the utter shambles of indisciplined, ego-driven civil war being displayed at the moment, you can't rule out such a contest.
Sounds like you're talking about Boris.
Boris? Why would you think I was referring to him? :InnocentFace
Mind you given the state of their relationship I can see David Cameron not being helpful if there is a Gove coronation in the offing.
What would be the point of a Gove coronation? If he tries to implement any form of Brexit his role in the campaign will just be hammered by everyone and the opposition will be overwhelming.
He’s nominally trusted by Leavers and impressing everyone else with his pragmatism.
It will also be impressed on everybody the WA is short term and the long term deal is what really matters.
(Incidentally I think we can add the rights and responsibilities of the Speaker's Chair to the bumper book of Things Mrs Leadsom Does Not Understand).
He's an odious little twerp. Once again Leadsom is thoroughly sound. The extent to which she's attacked by remainers is a measure of how afraid they are of her. See also Rees Mogg.
"Once again Leadsom is thoroughly sound."
ha haha hahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Case in point.
Afraid of Leadsom? Wasn't she senior partner of Goldman Sachs?
What does that have to do with anything?
"According to a former colleague who admitted to not knowing her personally, "the problem about these claims[clarification needed] is that they risk misleading people into believing that she has finance management skills and experience which qualify her for senior posts in government"; her actual job was to work (sometimes part-time) on “special projects”, mostly for the Chief Investment Officer, which included negotiating pay terms for senior fund managers. Towards the end of her time, she advised on a number of governance issues, but she had no-one reporting to her in either role"
Hey, Beverley, don't worry! Me and my squad of ultimate Brexiteers will protect you! Check it out. Independently targeting particle-beam phalanx. WHAP! Fry half a city with this puppy. We got tactical smart missiles, phase plasma pulse rifles, RPGs. We got sonic, electronic ball-breakers! We got nukes, we got knives, sharp sticks...
DO not be so daft Sunil - those are only weapons. The swivel-eyed loon, ultra-nutter brigade have a Brexit and they are not afraid to use it.
Destruction down to the level of quarks. Only a seething mass of electron plasma and high-energy photons will remain....
Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and a second referendum.... Our *three* weapons are fear, and surprise, and a second referendum...and an almost fanatical devotion to the EU.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again.
The last two years have shown us that Raab, Johnson and Hannan have not the first clue how the EU works. They are ignorant, self-serving, malicious and damaging. At least Gove has tried to do something worthwhile at DEFRA. The rest of them are a useless waste of space.
I say we nuke Westminster from orbit - it's the only way to be sure
I cannot begin to tell you how angry I am at politicians playing stupid bloody games, out of malice, ambition, ignorance, which will harm the future of this country and that of my family.
For reasons which need not concern anyone I actually own a proper yellow high-vis jacket. I am beginning to think that hurling paving stones at the utter wankers in Westminster is the only rational course of action.
In a hung parliament it's difficult to see how a leadership election could be allowed to go to the membership.
Indeed but you never can be sure. Even if the vast bulk of Tory MPs and the main contenders agree on a coronation of some unifying figure (Gove?), it only takes one potential candidate to decide to have a go for it to trigger a full contest. Given the utter shambles of indisciplined, ego-driven civil war being displayed at the moment, you can't rule out such a contest.
Sounds like you're talking about Boris.
Boris? Why would you think I was referring to him? :InnocentFace
Mind you given the state of their relationship I can see David Cameron not being helpful if there is a Gove coronation in the offing.
YouGov finding the same as Lord Ashcroft. Supporters for the deal (around 20%) has barely changed, but the Don't Knows are firming up solidly against it.
Yes I understand that. I understand the objection but it is not seeing the wood for the trees. It is in everyone's best interest to conclude an FTA as soon as possible. For the EU because they think we are cherry-picking and for us because of, well, the backstop which irritates some folk.
I think the EU's protestations would have more merit if they hadn't trapped Turkey in just such a backstop for over 30 years.
Turkey, AAUI, could make strides towards becoming eligible for EU membership via a number measures including enacting some, and not enacting other policies. They seem to value however their current societal structure and MO more than EU membership.
YouGov finding the same as Lord Ashcroft. Supporters for the deal (around 20%) has barely changed, but the Don't Knows are firming up solidly against it.
Johnson and Hannan have been arguing consistently for years that the EU is moving in a direction incompatible with what the majority of British voters want. They identified the problem of unaccountable power long before it got us here.
Given the current drama it's easy to single people out for blame (and Boris is a favourite for most people to blame), but I think we were always destined to end up here. The mass immigration (without a plan for it) issues of the early noughties, Brown signing the Lisbon treaty behind closed doors, Blair trying to join us to the Euro, the antagonism of the British press, the way the Eurozone handled Greece... all those things, and lots more, have been building up to a point of explosion for years, and the EU referendum opened the floodgates to that.
The whole Brexit issue is much bigger than the ambitious moves of a few self-serving Tories. Johnson, Raab and Hannan deserve opprobrium for not having a detailed plan for exit (could anyone come up with one? The EU seems a lot like leaving Hotel California) but I'd argue they understand the EU pretty well and are warning us Brits if we don't like the unaccountable suffocating nature of it now it's only going to get worse.
The EU has never been my bugbear, but I can empathise with their fears.
In a hung parliament it's difficult to see how a leadership election could be allowed to go to the membership.
Indeed but you never can be sure. Even if the vast bulk of Tory MPs and the main contenders agree on a coronation of some unifying figure (Gove?), it only takes one other potential candidate to decide to have a go for it to trigger a full contest. Given the utter shambles of indisciplined, ego-driven civil war being displayed at the moment, you can't rule out such a contest.
You make it clear than anyone attempting to force a contest would lose the whip (assuming that would exclude them from the contest)?
The only way a contest works is if both candidates would have the confidence of the Commons.
Question to my fellow centrists...given the choice, who do you despise the most, Jacob Rees Mogg who would wreck the country with his vacuous stupidity and utopian Brexit, or Jeremy "2Es" Corbyn with his equally vacuous stupidity and his utopian Venezuelan socialism?
Both of them speak to their own audience and poalarise everyone else.
If JRM becomes PM then Corbyn will win the next election.
Could be the biggest swing in ideology in Downing Street since...
Question to my fellow centrists...given the choice, who do you despise the most, Jacob Rees Mogg who would wreck the country with his vacuous stupidity and utopian Brexit, or Jeremy "2Es" Corbyn with his equally vacuous stupidity and his utopian Venezuelan socialism?
Since we're all quoting Aliens today:
"We're on an express elevator to hell, going down!"
So team, are we agreed, Theresa circles LHR in a holding pattern in a Cessna 172 until March 28th at which point she lands, manages with the EU's agreement to extend A50, and then engages the HoC and public once more.
Alternatively, she is not deposed now (big if) and runs down the clock to an extension of A50 over the next month or three.
The last two years have shown us that Raab, Johnson and Hannan have not the first clue how the EU works. They are ignorant, self-serving, malicious and damaging. At least Gove has tried to do something worthwhile at DEFRA. The rest of them are a useless waste of space.
I say we nuke Westminster from orbit - it's the only way to be sure
I cannot begin to tell you how angry I am at politicians playing stupid bloody games, out of malice, ambition, ignorance, which will harm the future of this country and that of my family.
For reasons which need not concern anyone I actually own a proper yellow high-vis jacket. I am beginning to think that hurling paving stones at the utter wankers in Westminster is the only rational course of action.
Have you ever read Screwtape Proposes a Toast?
Hell produces a wine called Vintage Pharisee comprising the souls of religious bigots who hate one another, but are forced to spend eternity with each other. That's the present House of Commons; hundreds of raging egos who hate each other, all cooped up together, unable to escape each other.
I sense that the 48 letters are finally in. I think that TM's plan to run the clock down and force an eventual gun-to-head choice between her deal and WTO crash and burn has spooked some remainers to act and that plus the ERG usuals has done the trick. So 2 burning questions arise:
- Will she win the subsequent VONC among tory MPs?
- If she does not, will those self same tory MPs keep BoJo out of the final 2?
If the answers are NO and NO, we are looking at a very grim prospect indeed.
She will not win. Hyufd can point to how many were going to vote for the deal but we know that several cabinet members had their own plans for after the vote, so the idea they will vote for may cannot be assured, nor all of those who were going to vote for the deal. Running from the vote for a pointless non negotiation has diminished respect for her even further and even if she is right she cannot help the country anymore. She will lose.
The last two years have shown us that Raab, Johnson and Hannan have not the first clue how the EU works. They are ignorant, self-serving, malicious and damaging. At least Gove has tried to do something worthwhile at DEFRA. The rest of them are a useless waste of space.
I say we nuke Westminster from orbit - it's the only way to be sure
I cannot begin to tell you how angry I am at politicians playing stupid bloody games, out of malice, ambition, ignorance, which will harm the future of this country and that of my family.
For reasons which need not concern anyone I actually own a proper yellow high-vis jacket. I am beginning to think that hurling paving stones at the utter wankers in Westminster is the only rational course of action.
Have you ever read Screwtape Proposes a Toast?
Hell produces a wine called Vintage Pharisee comprising the souls of religious bigots who hate one another, but are forced to spend eternity with each other. That's the present House of Commons; hundreds of raging egos who hate each other, all cooped up together, unable to escape each other.
In a hung parliament it's difficult to see how a leadership election could be allowed to go to the membership.
Indeed but you never can be sure. Even if the vast bulk of Tory MPs and the main contenders agree on a coronation of some unifying figure (Gove?), it only takes one potential candidate to decide to have a go for it to trigger a full contest. Given the utter shambles of indisciplined, ego-driven civil war being displayed at the moment, you can't rule out such a contest.
Sounds like you're talking about Boris.
Boris? Why would you think I was referring to him? :InnocentFace
Mind you given the state of their relationship I can see David Cameron not being helpful if there is a Gove coronation in the offing.
What can Cameron do?
He still has a loyal and devoted following in the Parliamentary Party, he tells them to oppose a Gove coronation
In a hung parliament it's difficult to see how a leadership election could be allowed to go to the membership.
Indeed but you never can be sure. Even if the vast bulk of Tory MPs and the main contenders agree on a coronation of some unifying figure (Gove?), it only takes one potential candidate to decide to have a go for it to trigger a full contest. Given the utter shambles of indisciplined, ego-driven civil war being displayed at the moment, you can't rule out such a contest.
Sounds like you're talking about Boris.
Boris? Why would you think I was referring to him? :InnocentFace
Mind you given the state of their relationship I can see David Cameron not being helpful if there is a Gove coronation in the offing.
So team, are we agreed, Theresa circles LHR in a holding pattern in a Cessna 172 until March 28th at which point she lands, manages with the EU's agreement to extend A50, and then engages the HoC and public once more.
Alternatively, she is not deposed now (big if) and runs down the clock to an extension of A50 over the next month or three.
January 21st is, according to Mr Speaker, the absolute final deadline for the MV. On the 21st Jan, May must come the house, announce no deal has been reached, and trigger the failsafe procedures in the Withdrawal Act.
Given the need to pass legislation for the deal, the only way to avoid an extension would probably be to leave with no deal, or revoke without a referendum.
That won't appear in Have I Got News For You....no sireeee, not a chance.......
Theresa May really is a cluster-fuck magnet.
Which might explain why the magnetised letters fell off the Conference wall. But how we'll enjoy her two and a half minute highlights of two and a half years in the Jungle......
What is the logical maximum number of contenders for the Tory party election? Could loyalists flood it with, say 50, thereby ensuring that no election would result before March 29th?
I sense that the 48 letters are finally in. I think that TM's plan to run the clock down and force an eventual gun-to-head choice between her deal and WTO crash and burn has spooked some remainers to act and that plus the ERG usuals has done the trick. So 2 burning questions arise:
- Will she win the subsequent VONC among tory MPs?
- If she does not, will those self same tory MPs keep BoJo out of the final 2?
If the answers are NO and NO, we are looking at a very grim prospect indeed.
She will not win. Hyufd can point to how many were going to vote for the deal but we know that several cabinet members had their own plans for after the vote, so the idea they will vote for may cannot be assured, nor all of those who were going to vote for the deal. Running from the vote for a pointless non negotiation has diminished respect for her even further and even if she is right she cannot help the country anymore. She will lose.
I thimk a few weeks ago HYUFD was probably right. Now i think the mood has changed as MPs realise she has run out of road down which to kick the can.
What is the logical maximum number of contenders for the Tory party election? Could loyalists flood it with, say 50, thereby ensuring that no election would result before March 29th?
50? How many Theresa May loyalists are there? I can think of one but she would be barred from standing under the new rules.
That won't appear in Have I Got News For You....no sireeee, not a chance.......
Theresa May really is a cluster-fuck magnet.
Which might explain why the magnetised letters fell off the Conference wall. But how we'll enjoy her two and a half minute highlights of two and a half years in the Jungle......
Now get yourself out of here.
A political Tommy Cooper. Without the magic. Or humour. Just stuff going perpetually wrong.
I thimk a fewcweeks ago HYUFD was probably right. Now i think the mood has changed as MPs realise she has run out of road down which to kick the can.
May was a bit too late to call the election, and could have left it a bit too late to win a VONC too. She should have arranged for the letters to go in a few weeks ago when she would have won easily.
Johnson and Hannan have been arguing consistently for years that the EU is moving in a direction incompatible with what the majority of British voters want. They identified the problem of unaccountable power long before it got us here.
Given the current drama it's easy to single people out for blame (and Boris is a favourite for most people to blame), but I think we were always destined to end up here. The mass immigration (without a plan for it) issues of the early noughties, Brown signing the Lisbon treaty behind closed doors, Blair trying to join us to the Euro, the antagonism of the British press, the way the Eurozone handled Greece... all those things, and lots more, have been building up to a point of explosion for years, and the EU referendum opened the floodgates to that.
The whole Brexit issue is much bigger than the ambitious moves of a few self-serving Tories. Johnson, Raab and Hannan deserve opprobrium for not having a detailed plan for exit (could anyone come up with one? The EU seems a lot like leaving Hotel California) but I'd argue they understand the EU pretty well and are warning us Brits if we don't like the unaccountable suffocating nature of it now it's only going to get worse.
The EU has never been my bugbear, but I can empathise with their fears.
Sorry: no. Johnson has said over the years whatever he thought his audience wanted to hear. He has spoken in favour of immigration.
Hannan has made all sorts of points about being able to get better trade deals outside the EU but it has become perfectly clear that he has no understanding of our current arrangements and has said contradictory things over the years. Neither have come up with any sort of coherent plan.
It is easy to criticise the EU. I have done so myself. But Johnson et al have a total lack of empathy with why the EU is at is, what it is trying to achieve and why the insults they have lobbed at the EU are so wrong, offensive and counter-productive. There are issues with the EU's direction of travel and the UK's view of itself, what Romano Prodi called an issue of "identity" but there are ways of dealing with those which require hard work and hard thinking not the sort of destructively frivolous approach being taken by those pushing Brexit.
I can empathise with the fears of those who worry about the EU's direction of travel. I share some of them. What I can't abide are those who don't bother to do the hard, fresh thinking needed to see how best to come to a workable long-term relationship between the UK and the EU. What is Britain's strategy towards the EU? God knows. The Brexiteers' strategy (and I am being kind in calling it thus) is to wish that Europe just didn't exist and we could ignore it. To call it childish is to insult the intelligence of most children.
What is the logical maximum number of contenders for the Tory party election? Could loyalists flood it with, say 50, thereby ensuring that no election would result before March 29th?
Johnson and Hannan have been arguing consistently for years that the EU is moving in a direction incompatible with what the majority of British voters want. They identified the problem of unaccountable power long before it got us here.
Given the current drama it's easy to single people out for blame (and Boris is a favourite for most people to blame), but I think we were always destined to end up here. The mass immigration (without a plan for it) issues of the early noughties, Brown signing the Lisbon treaty behind closed doors, Blair trying to join us to the Euro, the antagonism of the British press, the way the Eurozone handled Greece... all those things, and lots more, have been building up to a point of explosion for years, and the EU referendum opened the floodgates to that.
The whole Brexit issue is much bigger than the ambitious moves of a few self-serving Tories. Johnson, Raab and Hannan deserve opprobrium for not having a detailed plan for exit (could anyone come up with one? The EU seems a lot like leaving Hotel California) but I'd argue they understand the EU pretty well and are warning us Brits if we don't like the unaccountable suffocating nature of it now it's only going to get worse.
The EU has never been my bugbear, but I can empathise with their fears.
It needs to be said, Fenster.
There are few keener Europhiles on this Site than me, and even I put a large part of the blame for this sorry state of affairs on the EU itself.
Given the need to pass legislation for the deal, the only way to avoid an extension would probably be to leave with no deal, or revoke without a referendum.
I assume, if she did decide to go that route, that she doesn't need Parliamentary approval for an extension? And are there any countries who might be at risk of vetoing?
What is the logical maximum number of contenders for the Tory party election? Could loyalists flood it with, say 50, thereby ensuring that no election would result before March 29th?
Each candidate needs a proposer and seconder. But the process is under the control of the 1922. If they saw a large number of no-hoper candidates were being nominated to play silly buggers, they'd take remedial action, I think.
Given the need to pass legislation for the deal, the only way to avoid an extension would probably be to leave with no deal, or revoke without a referendum.
I assume, if she did decide to go that route, that she doesn't need Parliamentary approval for an extension? And are there any countries who might be at risk of vetoing?
France if Macron needs a boost to his opinion poll numbers?
Given the need to pass legislation for the deal, the only way to avoid an extension would probably be to leave with no deal, or revoke without a referendum.
I assume, if she did decide to go that route, that she doesn't need Parliamentary approval for an extension? And are there any countries who might be at risk of vetoing?
Didn't Barnier say that they would look favourably on an extension?
If so she needs to get back to terra firma, block calls from Sir Graham and extend before PMQs. Or soon after. It is her only chance. Because just like we know the EU has the internet, so does the ERG and the mooted cosmetic changes in the backstop terms are very unlikely to fly with them.
Question to my fellow centrists...given the choice, who do you despise the most, Jacob Rees Mogg who would wreck the country with his vacuous stupidity and utopian Brexit, or Jeremy "2Es" Corbyn with his equally vacuous stupidity and his utopian Venezuelan socialism?
Both of them speak to their own audience and poalarise everyone else.
If JRM becomes PM then Corbyn will win the next election.
Could be the biggest swing in ideology in Downing Street since...
actually I don't know when. Attlee?
1951. Attlee TO Churchill!
Hardly - the 1951 Tory Government was very moderate - well to the left of the later Blair Govts.
What is the logical maximum number of contenders for the Tory party election? Could loyalists flood it with, say 50, thereby ensuring that no election would result before March 29th?
No
They whittle them down very quickly
Only twice a week, on Tuesday and Thursday. But if there were 100 nominated MPs, perhaps they'd accelerate the process somewhat.
I particularly like her indignation at the ECJ confirming that we are a sovereign country and can if we so wish withdraw our Article 50 notification without having to ask permission from those foreigner johnnies.
What is the logical maximum number of contenders for the Tory party election? Could loyalists flood it with, say 50, thereby ensuring that no election would result before March 29th?
Each candidate needs a proposer and seconder. But the process is under the control of the 1922. If they saw a large number of no-hoper candidates were being nominated to play silly buggers, they'd take remedial action, I think.
Identifying which Cons MPs are or would be the ones playing silly buggers must surely be a task worthy of Hercules.
Given the need to pass legislation for the deal, the only way to avoid an extension would probably be to leave with no deal, or revoke without a referendum.
I assume, if she did decide to go that route, that she doesn't need Parliamentary approval for an extension? And are there any countries who might be at risk of vetoing?
Didn't Barnier say that they would look favourably on an extension?
If so she needs to get back to terra firma, block calls from Sir Graham and extend before PMQs. Or soon after. It is her only chance. Because just like we know the EU has the internet, so does the ERG and the mooted cosmetic changes in the backstop terms are very unlikely to fly with them.
The Council has said it will consider an extension only if there's been a material change in circumstances for the UK. Which there has not. The deal is done as far as they're concerned.
What is the logical maximum number of contenders for the Tory party election? Could loyalists flood it with, say 50, thereby ensuring that no election would result before March 29th?
No
They whittle them down very quickly
Only twice a week, on Tuesday and Thursday. But if there were 100 nominated MPs, perhaps they'd accelerate the process somewhat.
On the first ballot only 10 survive? Something like that I imagine. They can do more than one ballot per day
The last two years have shown us that Raab, Johnson and Hannan have not the first clue how the EU works. They are ignorant, self-serving, malicious and damaging. At least Gove has tried to do something worthwhile at DEFRA. The rest of them are a useless waste of space.
I say we nuke Westminster from orbit - it's the only way to be sure
I cannot begin to tell you how angry I am at politicians playing stupid bloody games, out of malice, ambition, ignorance, which will harm the future of this country and that of my family.
For reasons which need not concern anyone I actually own a proper yellow high-vis jacket. I am beginning to think that hurling paving stones at the utter wankers in Westminster is the only rational course of action.
Given the need to pass legislation for the deal, the only way to avoid an extension would probably be to leave with no deal, or revoke without a referendum.
I assume, if she did decide to go that route, that she doesn't need Parliamentary approval for an extension? And are there any countries who might be at risk of vetoing?
Didn't Barnier say that they would look favourably on an extension?
If so she needs to get back to terra firma, block calls from Sir Graham and extend before PMQs. Or soon after. It is her only chance. Because just like we know the EU has the internet, so does the ERG and the mooted cosmetic changes in the backstop terms are very unlikely to fly with them.
The Council has said it will consider an extension only if there's been a material change in circumstances for the UK. Which there has not. The deal is done as far as they're concerned.
Does a likely defenestration of the PM count as a material change in circumstances?
Question to my fellow centrists...given the choice, who do you despise the most, Jacob Rees Mogg who would wreck the country with his vacuous stupidity and utopian Brexit, or Jeremy "2Es" Corbyn with his equally vacuous stupidity and his utopian Venezuelan socialism?
Both of them speak to their own audience and poalarise everyone else.
If JRM becomes PM then Corbyn will win the next election.
Could be the biggest swing in ideology in Downing Street since...
actually I don't know when. Attlee?
1951. Attlee TO Churchill!
Hardly - the 1951 Tory Government was very moderate - well to the left of the later Blair Govts.
Comments
- Will she win the subsequent VONC among tory MPs?
- If she does not, will those self same tory MPs keep BoJo out of the final 2?
If the answers are NO and NO, we are looking at a very grim prospect indeed.
Destruction down to the level of quarks. Only a seething mass of electron plasma and high-energy photons will remain....
EMERGENCY PROCEDURES: OPEN ONLY IN CASE OF BORIS
But as I said, the backstop is a sine qua non and hence it's just as well that both sides (IMO) want to transition out of the WA as soon as possible.
Support: 22% (-1)
Oppose: 51% (+5)
+/- 3/4 December 2018 Sample Size: 1,652 Field Work: 6/7 December 2018
Could be the biggest swing in ideology in Downing Street since...
actually I don't know when. Attlee?
It will also be impressed on everybody the WA is short term and the long term deal is what really matters.
For reasons which need not concern anyone I actually own a proper yellow high-vis jacket. I am beginning to think that hurling paving stones at the utter wankers in Westminster is the only rational course of action.
Across half the world, May would officially be in exile by now.
Johnson and Hannan have been arguing consistently for years that the EU is moving in a direction incompatible with what the majority of British voters want. They identified the problem of unaccountable power long before it got us here.
Given the current drama it's easy to single people out for blame (and Boris is a favourite for most people to blame), but I think we were always destined to end up here. The mass immigration (without a plan for it) issues of the early noughties, Brown signing the Lisbon treaty behind closed doors, Blair trying to join us to the Euro, the antagonism of the British press, the way the Eurozone handled Greece... all those things, and lots more, have been building up to a point of explosion for years, and the EU referendum opened the floodgates to that.
The whole Brexit issue is much bigger than the ambitious moves of a few self-serving Tories. Johnson, Raab and Hannan deserve opprobrium for not having a detailed plan for exit (could anyone come up with one? The EU seems a lot like leaving Hotel California) but I'd argue they understand the EU pretty well and are warning us Brits if we don't like the unaccountable suffocating nature of it now it's only going to get worse.
The EU has never been my bugbear, but I can empathise with their fears.
The only way a contest works is if both candidates would have the confidence of the Commons.
Since we're all quoting Aliens today:
"We're on an express elevator to hell, going down!"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-46525689/brexit-theresa-may-gets-stuck-in-car-ahead-of-angela-merkel-meeting
Alternatively, she is not deposed now (big if) and runs down the clock to an extension of A50 over the next month or three.
Hell produces a wine called Vintage Pharisee comprising the souls of religious bigots who hate one another, but are forced to spend eternity with each other. That's the present House of Commons; hundreds of raging egos who hate each other, all cooped up together, unable to escape each other.
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
No deal is better than a bad deal.
Brexit means Brexit.
PRESENT
Withdrawal agreement is agreed but not the Trade Deal.
A bad deal is better than no deal.
Brexit doesn't mean Brexit.
https://twitter.com/GuitarMoog/status/1072521447472594956
Theresa May really is a cluster-fuck magnet.
Which might explain why the magnetised letters fell off the Conference wall. But how we'll enjoy her two and a half minute highlights of two and a half years in the Jungle......
Now get yourself out of here.
Hannan has made all sorts of points about being able to get better trade deals outside the EU but it has become perfectly clear that he has no understanding of our current arrangements and has said contradictory things over the years. Neither have come up with any sort of coherent plan.
It is easy to criticise the EU. I have done so myself. But Johnson et al have a total lack of empathy with why the EU is at is, what it is trying to achieve and why the insults they have lobbed at the EU are so wrong, offensive and counter-productive. There are issues with the EU's direction of travel and the UK's view of itself, what Romano Prodi called an issue of "identity" but there are ways of dealing with those which require hard work and hard thinking not the sort of destructively frivolous approach being taken by those pushing Brexit.
I can empathise with the fears of those who worry about the EU's direction of travel. I share some of them. What I can't abide are those who don't bother to do the hard, fresh thinking needed to see how best to come to a workable long-term relationship between the UK and the EU. What is Britain's strategy towards the EU? God knows. The Brexiteers' strategy (and I am being kind in calling it thus) is to wish that Europe just didn't exist and we could ignore it. To call it childish is to insult the intelligence of most children.
They whittle them down very quickly
There are few keener Europhiles on this Site than me, and even I put a large part of the blame for this sorry state of affairs on the EU itself.
I think I need to say 359 billion to the power 42 billion Hail Marys.
If so she needs to get back to terra firma, block calls from Sir Graham and extend before PMQs. Or soon after. It is her only chance. Because just like we know the EU has the internet, so does the ERG and the mooted cosmetic changes in the backstop terms are very unlikely to fly with them.
https://twitter.com/PropertySpot/status/1072261265249185793
Something like that I imagine.
They can do more than one ballot per day