Now people begin to realise why Dave couldn't have "made preparations" for a Leave vote. Just to game the various scenarios of leave would have taken more than the four years of his remaining government's term.
His failing? He genuinely didn't expect that there were enough idiots in the country to vote Leave or that they would then be lead by morons in their cabinet in their attempt to do so.
No, it shows exactly why Cameron should have set up a commission, stuffed with Brexiteers of various shades, to establish a version of Brexit to be put to the referendum, and why Theresa May should have done the same before triggering Article 50.
But as I keep on pointing out, such a Commission would not have worked.
Firstly, it was not in the interests of the hardcore Brexiteers to serve on it, as that would legitimise it and make it harder to argue against.
Secondly, Brexit was won by offering many different visions of Brexit. Hate immigrants? Brexit'll stop them. Want to stop the ECJ rulings? Vote Brexit. Want to go into EEA or EFTA? Vote Brexit. Slightly miffed at the world in general? Stick one to the man and vote Brexit.
There is no way leavers would have coalesced behind one image of Brexit as produced by a commission, as it would narrow Brexit's appeal and cause them to lose the vote. Worse, it would have caused them to argue amongst themselves.
Thirdly, it would give Brexiteers yet another thing to argue against. It would be called an establishment stitch-up, run by people who weren't *real* Brexiteers (mirroring the stupid arguments we've seen on here recently), who want an image of Brexit that isn't Brexit.
Fourthly, it would just be called a delaying tactic. Cast your mind back four or five years, and remember the howls of disgust shown by Brexiteers towards Cameron for not calling a referendum as PM (and even the stupid calls for him to have one on the already-signed Lisbon Treaty). There's no way Brexiteers would have wanted the delay.
And most of all, Brexiteers could have done this years before the referendum and agreed their position. But they didn't. Because they could never agree a position, as we're seeing today.
Now people begin to realise why Dave couldn't have "made preparations" for a Leave vote. Just to game the various scenarios of leave would have taken more than the four years of his remaining government's term.
His failing? He genuinely didn't expect that there were enough idiots in the country to vote Leave or that they would then be lead by morons in their cabinet in their attempt to do so.
No, it shows exactly why Cameron should have set up a commission, stuffed with Brexiteers of various shades, to establish a version of Brexit to be put to the referendum, and why Theresa May should have done the same before triggering Article 50.
But as I keep on pointing out, such a Commission would not have worked.
Firstly, it was not in the interests of the hardcore Brexiteers to serve on it, as that would legitimise it and make it harder to argue against.
Secondly, Brexit was won by offering many different visions of Brexit. Hate immigrants? Brexit'll stop them. Want to stop the ECJ rulings? Vote Brexit. Want to go into EEA or EFTA? Vote Brexit. Slightly miffed at the world in general? Stick one to the man and vote Brexit.
There is no way leavers would have coalesced behind one image of Brexit as produced by a commission, as it would narrow Brexit's appeal and cause them to lose the vote. Worse, it would have caused them to argue amongst themselves.
Thirdly, it would give Brexiteers yet another thing to argue against. It would be called an establishment stitch-up, run by people who weren't *real* Brexiteers (mirroring the stupid arguments we've seen on here recently), who want an image of Brexit that isn't Brexit.
Fourthly, it would just be called a delaying tactic. Cast your mind back four or five years, and remember the howls of disgust shown by Brexiteers towards Cameron for not calling a referendum as PM (and even the stupid calls for him to have one on the already-signed Lisbon Treaty). There's no way Brexiteers would have wanted the delay.
And most of all, Brexiteers could have done this years before the referendum and agreed their position. But they didn't. Because they could never agree a position, as we're seeing today.
Exactly, there is no agreed Brexit vision -- not even now, not even from the ERG or Ukip.
But Cameron should still have proceeded on that basis. The carrot for Brexiteers would be the referendum (and gongs, baubles and ermine if needs be). Remember that George Osborne opposed calling the referendum so let us not fall for the revisionist line that it was inevitable or somehow Gordon Brown's fault.
Now people begin to realise why Dave couldn't have "made preparations" for a Leave vote. Just to game the various scenarios of leave would have taken more than the four years of his remaining government's term.
His failing? He genuinely didn't expect that there were enough idiots in the country to vote Leave or that they would then be lead by morons in their cabinet in their attempt to do so.
getting cameroons to accept Dave fked up is even harder than getting Labourites to accept they screwed the economy.
Getting leavers to admit they fked up is harder than both of the above.
Thanks to the loony ERGers and their ilk, it might just be that they've lost Brexit. And sadly that means nothing good for the fabric of our society.
I suspect that the vote is being delayed to give time for the PM to ask for something at this week's summit.
The thing is it is all futile. The only thing that will break the logjam is no backstop or "time limited not a backstop" backstop, and the EU aren't going to agree to that.
I suspect that the vote is being delayed to give time for the PM to ask for something at this week's summit.
It has long been thought that she would be seeking "concessions" at this summit, the only difference now is there will be no vote before it. Mrs May lives to fight another day.
I suspect that the vote is being delayed to give time for the PM to ask for something at this week's summit.
The thing is it is all futile. The only thing that will break the logjam is no backstop or "time limited not a backstop" backstop, and the EU aren't going to agree to that.
You are probably right, but maybe there is some 'clarification' available. I doubt if it will work, but we shall see.
There is no way leavers would have coalesced behind one image of Brexit as produced by a commission, as it would narrow Brexit's appeal and cause them to lose the vote.
I'm not sure that's true, as part of Project Fear was "you don't know what sort of Leave you will get".
There is no way leavers would have coalesced behind one image of Brexit as produced by a commission, as it would narrow Brexit's appeal and cause them to lose the vote.
I'm not sure that's true, as part of Project Fear was "you don't know what sort of Leave you will get".
In which case, 'Project Fear' was correct, wasn't it?
Exactly, there is no agreed Brexit vision -- not even now, not even from the ERG or Ukip.
But Cameron should still have proceeded on that basis. The carrot for Brexiteers would be the referendum (and gongs, baubles and ermine if needs be). Remember that George Osborne opposed calling the referendum so let us not fall for the revisionist line that it was inevitable or somehow Gordon Brown's fault.
It's not a 'revisionist' line. A referendum was inevitable - eventually. And there's a good argument to be made that the longer it was left, the harder it would be for remain to win.
I back May’s deal, but if it looks we’ll strongly Remain I’d be tempted to switch to help put the issue to bed.
LOL
If we leave, every problem for the next decade is going to be blamed on leaving.
Brexit will haunt all of us to our graves
Next decade? next half century more likely....
Well Labour still blame Thatcher for most of the countries woes and the Tories will continue to blame Labour for "there's no money left" for the foreseeable future.
Ahem and the winter of discontent - when't the half century anniversary of that? Not far off.
Not turning out to be a great day following on from the death this morning of my dear business partner of 40 years we have just been informed of the death of a very special friend of 50 years
Not turning out to be a great day following on from the death this morning of my dear business partner of 40 years we have just been informed of the death of a very special friend of 50 years
Comments
Firstly, it was not in the interests of the hardcore Brexiteers to serve on it, as that would legitimise it and make it harder to argue against.
Secondly, Brexit was won by offering many different visions of Brexit. Hate immigrants? Brexit'll stop them. Want to stop the ECJ rulings? Vote Brexit. Want to go into EEA or EFTA? Vote Brexit. Slightly miffed at the world in general? Stick one to the man and vote Brexit.
There is no way leavers would have coalesced behind one image of Brexit as produced by a commission, as it would narrow Brexit's appeal and cause them to lose the vote. Worse, it would have caused them to argue amongst themselves.
Thirdly, it would give Brexiteers yet another thing to argue against. It would be called an establishment stitch-up, run by people who weren't *real* Brexiteers (mirroring the stupid arguments we've seen on here recently), who want an image of Brexit that isn't Brexit.
Fourthly, it would just be called a delaying tactic. Cast your mind back four or five years, and remember the howls of disgust shown by Brexiteers towards Cameron for not calling a referendum as PM (and even the stupid calls for him to have one on the already-signed Lisbon Treaty). There's no way Brexiteers would have wanted the delay.
And most of all, Brexiteers could have done this years before the referendum and agreed their position. But they didn't. Because they could never agree a position, as we're seeing today.
I've only ever had two bets with PBers.
The first with Alastair had to be voided, because it was based on Gisella Stuart standing again in Edgbaston.
The second, with HYUFD, looks like its going to go the same way...
Politics, spoiling my PB fun!
You can have 7/4 if you promise to pay in a hard currency.
That's gonna be one fun vote...
But Cameron should still have proceeded on that basis. The carrot for Brexiteers would be the referendum (and gongs, baubles and ermine if needs be). Remember that George Osborne opposed calling the referendum so let us not fall for the revisionist line that it was inevitable or somehow Gordon Brown's fault.
I find the chances of that almost zero.
Thanks to the loony ERGers and their ilk, it might just be that they've lost Brexit. And sadly that means nothing good for the fabric of our society.
Probably unintentionally
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WOMAN, JUST GO
Tempus fugit for us oldies