With the Tory and Labour leaderships knee-deep in nostalgia, xenophobia and anti-Semitism, all the forward-kooking, interesting ideas are coming from the centre-left.
Yes, really quite interesting findings. GDP growth figures do raise the question "Whose Growth?"
Any Brexit that fails to address that fundamental feeling of being left behind is not going to be popular.
HMG has agreed Chequers as its negotiating position.
It's a negotiating position for internal tory use only. It doesn't really bear any relation to external reality.
It’s the basis on which HMG is negotiating with the European Union.
Which is nice. Pity that the EU have rejected it as they were always going to do. To refer back to the OP will our politicians waste further weeks arguing in parliament about the various nuances of the rejected Chequers deal ("perhaps the EU will change their mind...") demonstrating their lack of grasp on reality?
The UK options are as they were. Rescind Article 50. Exit to EEA and work out a longer term solution at leisure, or catastrophic crash Brexit. Politically the first two have been rejected by both party leaders - crash out as the default option may politically be the least worst option in a very narrow short term reading of whats at stake (not the future of the UK, just the future of the Theresa May administration)
No wonder people are increasingly sick of politicians.
People voted for an undeliverable proposition and now blame those failing to deliver that proposition, rather than themselves for choosing it.
It doesn't matter how many polls haver remain in front. We are leaving , end of story.
Though if there has been a genuine movement in opinion against Brexit leaving anyway does provide its own challenge to British democracy.
IF we decided to remain, there would be riots, I kid you not.
Are you saying leavers are violent thugs?
They will attack with a phalanx of zimmer frames.
In a stand-up fight between Remain voters v Leave voters, I reckon the whiny wimpy spineless Remainers would get a hell of a pasting.....
At first.
Then a civil war would start amongst the leavers, with one faction led by 'Walter Softy' JRM and the other by lazy buffoon Boris, with the former wanting to blow up Europe and the latter wanting anything that will give him power. As the leavers fight amongst themselves, the remain forces are decimated by laughter-induced injuries.
But way before then, the Remainers would have gone home in a huff - to start a blog about how well they fought in the battle.....
With the Tory and Labour leaderships knee-deep in nostalgia, xenophobia and anti-Semitism, all the forward-kooking, interesting ideas are coming from the centre-left.
Yes, really quite interesting findings. GDP growth figures do raise the question "Whose Growth?"
Any Brexit that fails to address that fundamental feeling of being left behind is not going to be popular.
GPs are taking too much money for their prensions :-)
Not quite sure about this veneration of the BOE. I had some interaction with them in the 2002 - 2007 period and everything they said and did suggested that they were living in the past and had no real feel for how the financial system had changed (this is not FAOD a comment on the regulatory system, just attitudes and thought processes). Closed thinking. Fish rotting etc perhaps?
So Brexit the top issue, immigration the third top issue and lack of faith in politicians also enters the top 10.
If Brexit ultimately proves to be BINO or is even reversed before being fully delivered suggests bad news for the mainstream politocians and good news for the populists, indirectly for both UKIP or a successor (UKIP was ahead of the LDs with Survation yesterday) or indirectly for Corbyn
Mrs C, it's illogical to claim that those who didn't vote supported one side of the argument. You can just as easily add them to the Leave side. Neither makes sense. Those who chose not to vote chose not to express their view. It's a valid decision in a democracy.
Wasn't Mrs C's point that those that didn't vote are unlikely to take up arms in the event of Brexit not happening. In that sense they would join the remainers staying at home watching the leave riots on the telly.
So Brexit the top issue, immigration the third top issue and lack of faith in politicians also enters the top 10.
If Brexit ultimately proves to be BINO or is even reversed before being fully delivered suggests bad news for the mainstream politocians and good news for the populists, indirectly for both UKIP or a successor (UKIP was ahead of the LDs with Survation yesterday) or indirectly for Corbyn
why would the bozos who lost to Farage run the country any better ?
It doesn't matter how many polls haver remain in front. We are leaving , end of story.
Though if there has been a genuine movement in opinion against Brexit leaving anyway does provide its own challenge to British democracy.
IF we decided to remain, there would be riots, I kid you not.
Are you saying leavers are violent thugs?
They will attack with a phalanx of zimmer frames.
In a stand-up fight between Remain voters v Leave voters, I reckon the whiny wimpy spineless Remainers would get a hell of a pasting.....
Interesting how many Leavers seem comfortable with violence ....
Yeah, because I'm really advocating that everyone who voted in the Referendum goes over to Belgium for a neutral ground to sort Brexit out, once and for all....
The last tweet in the header is interesting. Concern about Brexit is lowest in the Remain voting London and Scotland (NI not shown) and highest in the SE and SW, amongst older people, but mostly in the AB groups. It remains a Tory internal scrap, with just 52% of Labour voters mentioning it.
Tories own Brexit. It will be their dead albatross hanging around their neck, like a giant chunky Theresa May necklace.
53% of C2s concerned about Brexit, 52% of Labour voters ie over half too and Brexit the main issue with immigration third.
Yet again you completely to fail to grasp anything about the reason more people voted for Brexit than for anything in post-war British history, particularly over sovereignty concerns but also over immigration and if anyone owns the latter it is Blair for his failure to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004
It doesn't matter how many polls haver remain in front. We are leaving , end of story.
Though if there has been a genuine movement in opinion against Brexit leaving anyway does provide its own challenge to British democracy.
IF we decided to remain, there would be riots, I kid you not.
Are you saying leavers are violent thugs?
They will attack with a phalanx of zimmer frames.
In a stand-up fight between Remain voters v Leave voters, I reckon the whiny wimpy spineless Remainers would get a hell of a pasting.....
Interesting how many Leavers seem comfortable with violence ....
I think we know by now how far some would sink in their determination to leave the EU, violence is just the next step on from trashing any institution or individual that appears to stand in your way.
OT. Good news for those fans of The White Hotel by DM Thomas. He's the member of the SeanT family who could write. A very fine novel and with the collaboration of Jon Amiel directing and dramatised by Dennis Potter it should be well worth two hours of anyone's time. How Potter has dealt with the language will be an interesting test of how grown up the BBC has become.
Part of the Conclusion from the Curtice Paper which has a 'topline' of 59:41 to Remain:
....attitudes towards whether the UK should be leaving the EU or not have, indeed, been remarkably stable. Britain is still more or less evenly divided between a body of voters who would vote Remain and another group that would vote Leave. Yet from the outset of the Brexit process support for Leave has generally proven a little less firm than that for Remain, and the difference between the willingness of the two sets of voters to vote the same way again may also have widened a little. Meanwhile, those who did not vote in 2016 are noticeably more inclined to say they would now vote Remain rather than Leave.
As a result, instead of a narrow majority in favour of leaving the EU recorded in the referendum in June, there might now be a narrow majority in favour of Remain
Survation (the most accurate pollster at the last general election) had Leave ahead yesterday so that poll is likely miles out as even Curtice has admitted
Part of the Conclusion from the Curtice Paper which has a 'topline' of 59:41 to Remain:
....attitudes towards whether the UK should be leaving the EU or not have, indeed, been remarkably stable. Britain is still more or less evenly divided between a body of voters who would vote Remain and another group that would vote Leave. Yet from the outset of the Brexit process support for Leave has generally proven a little less firm than that for Remain, and the difference between the willingness of the two sets of voters to vote the same way again may also have widened a little. Meanwhile, those who did not vote in 2016 are noticeably more inclined to say they would now vote Remain rather than Leave.
As a result, instead of a narrow majority in favour of leaving the EU recorded in the referendum in June, there might now be a narrow majority in favour of Remain
Survation (the most accurate pollster at the last general election) had Leave ahead yesterday so that poll is likely miles out as even Curtice has admitted
A 6% swing from Leave to Remain. That's actually a pretty big swing in two years.
So Labour spent the whole day yesterday leading the news with their antisemitism enquiry, and after an hours-long meeting of their NEC they still couldn’t agree to simply use the standard definition without caveat, thus pleasing no-one and keeping the story running for longer. Did I get that right?
Survation also had even 18 to 34 year olds wanting powers reclaimed from the ECJ, so much for young voters inevitably marching onwards to push the UK into a Federal EU Superstate then even if they did vote Remain
Part of the Conclusion from the Curtice Paper which has a 'topline' of 59:41 to Remain:
....attitudes towards whether the UK should be leaving the EU or not have, indeed, been remarkably stable. Britain is still more or less evenly divided between a body of voters who would vote Remain and another group that would vote Leave. Yet from the outset of the Brexit process support for Leave has generally proven a little less firm than that for Remain, and the difference between the willingness of the two sets of voters to vote the same way again may also have widened a little. Meanwhile, those who did not vote in 2016 are noticeably more inclined to say they would now vote Remain rather than Leave.
As a result, instead of a narrow majority in favour of leaving the EU recorded in the referendum in June, there might now be a narrow majority in favour of Remain
Survation (the most accurate pollster at the last general election) had Leave ahead yesterday so that poll is likely miles out as even Curtice has admitted
A 6% swing from Leave to Remain. That's actually a pretty big swing in two years.
Survation had Remain narrowly ahead in its final EU referendum poll so actually a swing to Leave on that basis
So Brexit the top issue, immigration the third top issue and lack of faith in politicians also enters the top 10.
If Brexit ultimately proves to be BINO or is even reversed before being fully delivered suggests bad news for the mainstream politocians and good news for the populists, indirectly for both UKIP or a successor (UKIP was ahead of the LDs with Survation yesterday) or indirectly for Corbyn
why would the bozos who lost to Farage run the country any better ?
Farage would probably come back as head of UKIP or a UKIP successor party if it is BINO or Brexit is reversed
OT. Good news for those fans of The White Hotel by DM Thomas. He's the member of the SeanT family who could write. A very fine novel and with the collaboration of Jon Amiel directing and dramatised by Dennis Potter it should be well worth two hours of anyone's time. How Potter has dealt with the language will be an interesting test of how grown up the BBC has become.
With the Tory and Labour leaderships knee-deep in nostalgia, xenophobia and anti-Semitism, all the forward-kooking, interesting ideas are coming from the centre-left.
I agree that our corporate governance culture is far too short-termist, doesn’t invest enough, and cares far too much about short-term returns to institutional shareholders.
But, I don’t agree with most of those policies (many of which are neo-socialist) because I don’t think they’d do anything to solve it, other than raise costs and decrease employment and investment.
Industrial strategy, a public R&D investment bank and more devolution to cities and regions of public spending are all good ideas, and ones this Government is already starting to make progress upon.
I’d be open to realistic suggestions that decreases tax on employment and increased it on asset wealth provided I could be convinced it wouldn’t damage free enterprise.
So Labour spent the whole day yesterday leading the news with their antisemitism enquiry, and after an hours-long meeting of their NEC they still couldn’t agree to simply use the standard definition without caveat, thus pleasing no-one and keeping the story running for longer. Did I get that right?
Well, until the newly-formed NEC in October decides to overturn September's meeting, yes.
Mr. T, despite the idiotic reporting from some, including Sky News the day after when there was a shameful video with three masked cretins claiming they'd looted due to government cuts, the 2011 looting was not remotely political in nature. It occurred due to the weak response of police to the initial outburst (over the shooting of Mark Duggan [think that's the name]). Then, opportunistic thieves and thugs used social media to exploit the opportunity the weakness afforded to go on a little thieving, fire-starting rampage.
If riots occurred on a large scale (regardless of the cause) we might very well see a similar phenomenon recur, if the initial police response is a limp as before.
OT. Good news for those fans of The White Hotel by DM Thomas. He's the member of the SeanT family who could write. A very fine novel and with the collaboration of Jon Amiel directing and dramatised by Dennis Potter it should be well worth two hours of anyone's time. How Potter has dealt with the language will be an interesting test of how grown up the BBC has become.
With the Tory and Labour leaderships knee-deep in nostalgia, xenophobia and anti-Semitism, all the forward-kooking, interesting ideas are coming from the centre-left.
Some very interesting ideas. Taxing wealth and work the same is certainly more radical than anything Jezza proposed. Much of the rest was in the Labour manifesto in one form or another.
OT. Good news for those fans of The White Hotel by DM Thomas. He's the member of the SeanT family who could write. A very fine novel and with the collaboration of Jon Amiel directing and dramatised by Dennis Potter it should be well worth two hours of anyone's time. How Potter has dealt with the language will be an interesting test of how grown up the BBC has become.
With the Tory and Labour leaderships knee-deep in nostalgia, xenophobia and anti-Semitism, all the forward-kooking, interesting ideas are coming from the centre-left.
Some very interesting ideas. Taxing wealth and work the same is certainly more radical than anything Jezza proposed. Much of the rest was in the Labour manifesto in one form or another.
OT. Good news for those fans of The White Hotel by DM Thomas. He's the member of the SeanT family who could write. A very fine novel and with the collaboration of Jon Amiel directing and dramatised by Dennis Potter it should be well worth two hours of anyone's time. How Potter has dealt with the language will be an interesting test of how grown up the BBC has become.
Mr. rkrkrk, taxing wealth be a fantastic way to drive down saving rates even lower.
I don't earn much and have saved what I can. If the Government decided that should be punished I'd be less than pleased. It's a ****ing idiotic notion.
The last tweet in the header is interesting. Concern about Brexit is lowest in the Remain voting London and Scotland (NI not shown) and highest in the SE and SW, amongst older people, but mostly in the AB groups. It remains a Tory internal scrap, with just 52% of Labour voters mentioning it.
Tories own Brexit. It will be their dead albatross hanging around their neck, like a giant chunky Theresa May necklace.
53% of C2s concerned about Brexit, 52% of Labour voters ie over half too and Brexit the main issue with immigration third.
Yet again you completely to fail to grasp anything about the reason more people voted for Brexit than for anything in post-war British history, particularly over sovereignty concerns but also over immigration and if anyone owns the latter it is Blair for his failure to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004
It’s sobering to think that back in 1975 the Tory Party was heavily pro-EEC (I know, I know) and had the support of it’s Press. In particular the Mail said, on the day we joined that ' ‘for ten years we have campaigned for this day. We have not wavered in our conviction that Britain’s best and brightest future is in Europe’
The truth of Chequers for me is that May has actually tried, if anything, too hard to resolve the contradictory spirit of the referendum. It was clear leave voters wanted freedom of movement to end, we would be out of the SM. It was clear they wanted the contribution money spent on other things, her proposal would end it and some accountancy has been done to release some money into the NHS. A very large majority voted in what they felt we their own economic interests, and below the headline exits she has endeavoured to keep as much as possible of the trading structure in place - as was indeed promised across the Leave campaign.
To square all that, however, meant throwing away any off the shelf options and going for something complicated and very custom. Something that required a massive dollop of goodwill. Something massively difficult, even without Tory factionalism.
In dealing with the wishes of the Brexit voters, she set herself the most thankless negotiating brief of any British PM since Chamberlain. Note, that to extend this analogy requires not Boris as Churchill, but as one of those recklessly driving the tanks over the Polish border, himself the betrayer.
Succeed or fail, May's efforts have earned respect from me and the last thing I regard them as is betrayal.
So Brexit the top issue, immigration the third top issue and lack of faith in politicians also enters the top 10.
If Brexit ultimately proves to be BINO or is even reversed before being fully delivered suggests bad news for the mainstream politocians and good news for the populists, indirectly for both UKIP or a successor (UKIP was ahead of the LDs with Survation yesterday) or indirectly for Corbyn
why would the bozos who lost to Farage run the country any better ?
Farage would probably come back as head of UKIP or a UKIP successor party if it is BINO or Brexit is reversed
It won't be any different to previously or present. It will be the "Look at the size of my ego" Party. It has always amazed me that the electorate, whom my father always told me was sophisticated bless him, does not see past this charlatan, and his Tory brother in lies, Boris Johnson
With the Tory and Labour leaderships knee-deep in nostalgia, xenophobia and anti-Semitism, all the forward-kooking, interesting ideas are coming from the centre-left.
I agree that our corporate governance culture is far too short-termist, doesn’t invest enough, and cares far too much about short-term returns to institutional shareholders.
But, I don’t agree with most of those policies (many of which are neo-socialist) because I don’t think they’d do anything to solve it, other than raise costs and decrease employment and investment.
Industrial strategy, a public R&D investment bank and more devolution to cities and regions of public spending are all good ideas, and ones this Government is already starting to make progress upon.
I’d be open to realistic suggestions that decreases tax on employment and increased it on asset wealth provided I could be convinced it wouldn’t damage free enterprise.
Agreed, and would add something on business rates for retail which is being hammered by online competition, incentives for companies to hire apprentices rather than immigrants, and one or more economic free zones in the North of England exempt from most property and payroll taxes.
HMG has agreed Chequers as its negotiating position.
It's a negotiating position for internal tory use only. It doesn't really bear any relation to external reality.
It’s the basis on which HMG is negotiating with the European Union.
Which is nice. Pity that the EU have rejected it as they were always going to do. To refer back to the OP will our politicians waste further weeks arguing in parliament about the various nuances of the rejected Chequers deal ("perhaps the EU will change their mind...") demonstrating their lack of grasp on reality?
The UK options are as they were. Rescind Article 50. Exit to EEA and work out a longer term solution at leisure, or catastrophic crash Brexit. Politically the first two have been rejected by both party leaders - crash out as the default option may politically be the least worst option in a very narrow short term reading of whats at stake (not the future of the UK, just the future of the Theresa May administration)
No wonder people are increasingly sick of politicians.
People voted for an undeliverable proposition and now blame those failing to deliver that proposition, rather than themselves for choosing it.
People voted for all kinds of things in their heads. The ballot paper asked should we leave the European Union. Leaving to EEA fulfils the vote and doesn't smash the economy - and aside from rescind A50 or catastrophioc crash brexit is the only option left.
It doesn't matter how many polls haver remain in front. We are leaving , end of story.
Though if there has been a genuine movement in opinion against Brexit leaving anyway does provide its own challenge to British democracy.
IF we decided to remain, there would be riots, I kid you not.
Are you saying leavers are violent thugs?
They will attack with a phalanx of zimmer frames.
In a stand-up fight between Remain voters v Leave voters, I reckon the whiny wimpy spineless Remainers would get a hell of a pasting.....
At first.
Then a civil war would start amongst the leavers, with one faction led by 'Walter Softy' JRM and the other by lazy buffoon Boris, with the former wanting to blow up Europe and the latter wanting anything that will give him power. As the leavers fight amongst themselves, the remain forces are decimated by laughter-induced injuries.
But way before then, the Remainers would have gone home in a huff - to start a blog about how well they fought in the battle.....
Nah, they'll be dancing whilst wearing EU-stylised clothing. Nothing lays beats like smashing glass!
The last tweet in the header is interesting. Concern about Brexit is lowest in the Remain voting London and Scotland (NI not shown) and highest in the SE and SW, amongst older people, but mostly in the AB groups. It remains a Tory internal scrap, with just 52% of Labour voters mentioning it.
Tories own Brexit. It will be their dead albatross hanging around their neck, like a giant chunky Theresa May necklace.
53% of C2s concerned about Brexit, 52% of Labour voters ie over half too and Brexit the main issue with immigration third.
Yet again you completely to fail to grasp anything about the reason more people voted for Brexit than for anything in post-war British history, particularly over sovereignty concerns but also over immigration and if anyone owns the latter it is Blair for his failure to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004
Christ, why you have this fixation with something that happened nearly 15 years ago and is ancient history to almost everyone? You mention it at least once a day
OT. Good news for those fans of The White Hotel by DM Thomas. He's the member of the SeanT family who could write. A very fine novel and with the collaboration of Jon Amiel directing and dramatised by Dennis Potter it should be well worth two hours of anyone's time. How Potter has dealt with the language will be an interesting test of how grown up the BBC has become.
Agree and disagree. Fantastic novel (I liked Ararat also) but I would rather not see it on the tellybox. cf Handmaid's Tale, Swann's Way, etc, etc. It's all there in my mind why on earth would I want to change that?
The last tweet in the header is interesting. Concern about Brexit is lowest in the Remain voting London and Scotland (NI not shown) and highest in the SE and SW, amongst older people, but mostly in the AB groups. It remains a Tory internal scrap, with just 52% of Labour voters mentioning it.
Tories own Brexit. It will be their dead albatross hanging around their neck, like a giant chunky Theresa May necklace.
53% of C2s concerned about Brexit, 52% of Labour voters ie over half too and Brexit the main issue with immigration third.
Yet again you completely to fail to grasp anything about the reason more people voted for Brexit than for anything in post-war British history, particularly over sovereignty concerns but also over immigration and if anyone owns the latter it is Blair for his failure to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004
It’s sobering to think that back in 1975 the Tory Party was heavily pro-EEC (I know, I know) and had the support of it’s Press. In particular the Mail said, on the day we joined that ' ‘for ten years we have campaigned for this day. We have not wavered in our conviction that Britain’s best and brightest future is in Europe’
And now look at the state we are in!
the state we are currently in is called the European Union
And Rifkind's position doesn't make sense. It's the fact that the politics ARE complicated that explains why King has said we should be prepared for no deal.
So Labour spent the whole day yesterday leading the news with their antisemitism enquiry, and after an hours-long meeting of their NEC they still couldn’t agree to simply use the standard definition without caveat, thus pleasing no-one and keeping the story running for longer. Did I get that right?
Well, until the newly-formed NEC in October decides to overturn September's meeting, yes.
The problem Labour has to attend to is where does this anti-Semitism spring from. Most believe it is related to Palestine. I think this is just an excuse. My belief is that it was encapsulated in that racist poster that Corbyn failed to condemn.
The root cause of Hard Left anti-Semitism is based on the same paranoid prejudice of the Far Right - a belief that the capitalist system is a system designed for the benefit of the Jews - the Jewish Conspiracy. That is the real reason Corbyn and his allies hate Jews. Their support of Palestine is simply an effect, not the cause. He is simply a left wing racist, and he and his fellow travellers and supporters should be called out as such.
The last tweet in the header is interesting. Concern about Brexit is lowest in the Remain voting London and Scotland (NI not shown) and highest in the SE and SW, amongst older people, but mostly in the AB groups. It remains a Tory internal scrap, with just 52% of Labour voters mentioning it.
Tories own Brexit. It will be their dead albatross hanging around their neck, like a giant chunky Theresa May necklace.
53% of C2s concerned about Brexit, 52% of Labour voters ie over half too and Brexit the main issue with immigration third.
Yet again you completely to fail to grasp anything about the reason more people voted for Brexit than for anything in post-war British history, particularly over sovereignty concerns but also over immigration and if anyone owns the latter it is Blair for his failure to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004
It’s sobering to think that back in 1975 the Tory Party was heavily pro-EEC (I know, I know) and had the support of it’s Press. In particular the Mail said, on the day we joined that ' ‘for ten years we have campaigned for this day. We have not wavered in our conviction that Britain’s best and brightest future is in Europe’
And now look at the state we are in!
the state we are currently in is called the European Union
we never got asked if we wanted to join it
Total rubbish, it was part of Heath's manifesto and it was massively popular as a policy. Plus we are not in a state called the EU. It is a supranational body. You really do make yourself look foolish with these Daily Express type distortions.
The last tweet in the header is interesting. Concern about Brexit is lowest in the Remain voting London and Scotland (NI not shown) and highest in the SE and SW, amongst older people, but mostly in the AB groups. It remains a Tory internal scrap, with just 52% of Labour voters mentioning it.
Tories own Brexit. It will be their dead albatross hanging around their neck, like a giant chunky Theresa May necklace.
53% of C2s concerned about Brexit, 52% of Labour voters ie over half too and Brexit the main issue with immigration third.
Yet again you completely to fail to grasp anything about the reason more people voted for Brexit than for anything in post-war British history, particularly over sovereignty concerns but also over immigration and if anyone owns the latter it is Blair for his failure to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004
It’s sobering to think that back in 1975 the Tory Party was heavily pro-EEC (I know, I know) and had the support of it’s Press. In particular the Mail said, on the day we joined that ' ‘for ten years we have campaigned for this day. We have not wavered in our conviction that Britain’s best and brightest future is in Europe’
And now look at the state we are in!
the state we are currently in is called the European Union
we never got asked if we wanted to join it
Total rubbish, it was part of Heath's manifesto and it was massively popular as a policy. Plus we are not in a state called the EU. It is a supranational body. You really do make yourself look foolish with these Daily Express type distortions.
He proves the point that if we do get BINO Leavers would be too stupid to understand.
The last tweet in the header is interesting. Concern about Brexit is lowest in the Remain voting London and Scotland (NI not shown) and highest in the SE and SW, amongst older people, but mostly in the AB groups. It remains a Tory internal scrap, with just 52% of Labour voters mentioning it.
Tories own Brexit. It will be their dead albatross hanging around their neck, like a giant chunky Theresa May necklace.
53% of C2s concerned about Brexit, 52% of Labour voters ie over half too and Brexit the main issue with immigration third.
Yet again you completely to fail to grasp anything about the reason more people voted for Brexit than for anything in post-war British history, particularly over sovereignty concerns but also over immigration and if anyone owns the latter it is Blair for his failure to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004
It’s sobering to think that back in 1975 the Tory Party was heavily pro-EEC (I know, I know) and had the support of it’s Press. In particular the Mail said, on the day we joined that ' ‘for ten years we have campaigned for this day. We have not wavered in our conviction that Britain’s best and brightest future is in Europe’
And now look at the state we are in!
the state we are currently in is called the European Union
we never got asked if we wanted to join it
Total rubbish, it was part of Heath's manifesto and it was massively popular as a policy. Plus we are not in a state called the EU. It is a supranational body. You really do make yourself look foolish with these Daily Express type distortions.
Heath wanted to join the European Union? Funny I thought we joined the European Economic Community.
OT. Good news for those fans of The White Hotel by DM Thomas. He's the member of the SeanT family who could write. A very fine novel and with the collaboration of Jon Amiel directing and dramatised by Dennis Potter it should be well worth two hours of anyone's time. How Potter has dealt with the language will be an interesting test of how grown up the BBC has become.
Agree and disagree. Fantastic novel (I liked Ararat also) but I would rather not see it on the tellybox. cf Handmaid's Tale, Swann's Way, etc, etc. It's all there in my mind why on earth would I want to change that?
I agree with almost all of that except that this is radio so your memory and imagination can still play a big part
The last tweet in the header is interesting. Concern about Brexit is lowest in the Remain voting London and Scotland (NI not shown) and highest in the SE and SW, amongst older people, but mostly in the AB groups. It remains a Tory internal scrap, with just 52% of Labour voters mentioning it.
Tories own Brexit. It will be their dead albatross hanging around their neck, like a giant chunky Theresa May necklace.
53% of C2s concerned about Brexit, 52% of Labour voters ie over half too and Brexit the main issue with immigration third.
Yet again you completely to fail to grasp anything about the reason more people voted for Brexit than for anything in post-war British history, particularly over sovereignty concerns but also over immigration and if anyone owns the latter it is Blair for his failure to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004
It’s sobering to think that back in 1975 the Tory Party was heavily pro-EEC (I know, I know) and had the support of it’s Press. In particular the Mail said, on the day we joined that ' ‘for ten years we have campaigned for this day. We have not wavered in our conviction that Britain’s best and brightest future is in Europe’
And now look at the state we are in!
the state we are currently in is called the European Union
we never got asked if we wanted to join it
Total rubbish, it was part of Heath's manifesto and it was massively popular as a policy. Plus we are not in a state called the EU. It is a supranational body. You really do make yourself look foolish with these Daily Express type distortions.
The last tweet in the header is interesting. Concern about Brexit is lowest in the Remain voting London and Scotland (NI not shown) and highest in the SE and SW, amongst older people, but mostly in the AB groups. It remains a Tory internal scrap, with just 52% of Labour voters mentioning it.
Tories own Brexit. It will be their dead albatross hanging around their neck, like a giant chunky Theresa May necklace.
53% of C2s concerned about Brexit, 52% of Labour voters ie over half too and Brexit the main issue with immigration third.
Yet again you completely to fail to grasp anything about the reason more people voted for Brexit than for anything in post-war British history, particularly over sovereignty concerns but also over immigration and if anyone owns the latter it is Blair for his failure to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004
It’s sobering to think that back in 1975 the Tory Party was heavily pro-EEC (I know, I know) and had the support of it’s Press. In particular the Mail said, on the day we joined that ' ‘for ten years we have campaigned for this day. We have not wavered in our conviction that Britain’s best and brightest future is in Europe’
And now look at the state we are in!
the state we are currently in is called the European Union
we never got asked if we wanted to join it
We consistently voted for politicians and parties which said they did. We can’t have referendums every two minutes; we’re too large a nation to be governed a ‘town meeting’ process.
At least at the moment, that is. Communication technology may one day advance far enough for nations to be able to operate on such a basis, although that will require some means of educating people so that demagoguery doesn’t rule
With the Tory and Labour leaderships knee-deep in nostalgia, xenophobia and anti-Semitism, all the forward-kooking, interesting ideas are coming from the centre-left.
It argues that the shareholder-driven model of capitalism is outmoded and partly to blame for Britain slipping down international league tables for investment and productivity, which measures the output per hour of each worker and is seen as the cornerstone of economic progress because it drives up wages.
And
Without the investment needed to cope with developments such as automation and the adoption of digital services, the commission warns, the UK is likely to face another decade of stagnant wages, rising household debts and deteriorating infrastructure.
So which is it? Are they worried about productivity or the effects of automation?
Policing the gift tax would be interesting, though worthwhile in my opinion. What concerns me more is that I've been priced out of being able to afford to buy in my home town, but these people would like to punish my family by taxing my parents wealth. We never asked for QE, ultra low interest rates and mass immigration. We never asked for the housing bubble.
Since when did the EU become a state? Its like the people on Facebook demanding the restoration of the Palestinian state - what state? Latest one was the "shocking confession" by ex Israeli PM Golda Meir that she "had a Palestinian Passport". Yeah. Mandate Palestine. Again, not a state.
OT. Good news for those fans of The White Hotel by DM Thomas. He's the member of the SeanT family who could write. A very fine novel and with the collaboration of Jon Amiel directing and dramatised by Dennis Potter it should be well worth two hours of anyone's time. How Potter has dealt with the language will be an interesting test of how grown up the BBC has become.
Agree and disagree. Fantastic novel (I liked Ararat also) but I would rather not see it on the tellybox. cf Handmaid's Tale, Swann's Way, etc, etc. It's all there in my mind why on earth would I want to change that?
I agree with almost all of that except that this is radio so your memory and imagination can still play a big part
Ah interesting - thanks. Not wholly convinced; how many times has one switched on for the R4 play only to switch off again shortly afterwards, generally because the actors simply don't seem to be able to convey the dramatic intensity on the one hand, or the play is not good enough on the other.
Then again, with Potter at the helm and a decent cast this will have a good a chance as any.
Mr. rkrkrk, taxing wealth be a fantastic way to drive down saving rates even lower.
I don't earn much and have saved what I can. If the Government decided that should be punished I'd be less than pleased. It's a ****ing idiotic notion.
Yes I did think that would get Tories rather irate. Whilst I do think we need to tax wealth more, I think there are lower hanging fruit in the form of exceptionally wasteful and ineffective incentives to save for high earners which could easily be used to encourage lower earners to save.
The last tweet in the header is interesting. Concern about Brexit is lowest in the Remain voting London and Scotland (NI not shown) and highest in the SE and SW, amongst older people, but mostly in the AB groups. It remains a Tory internal scrap, with just 52% of Labour voters mentioning it.
Tories own Brexit. It will be their dead albatross hanging around their neck, like a giant chunky Theresa May necklace.
53% of C2s concerned about Brexit, 52% of Labour voters ie over half too and Brexit the main issue with immigration third.
Yet again you completely to fail to grasp anything about the reason more people voted for Brexit than for anything in post-war British history, particularly over sovereignty concerns but also over immigration and if anyone owns the latter it is Blair for his failure to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004
It’s sobering to think that back in 1975 the Tory Party was heavily pro-EEC (I know, I know) and had the support of it’s Press. In particular the Mail said, on the day we joined that ' ‘for ten years we have campaigned for this day. We have not wavered in our conviction that Britain’s best and brightest future is in Europe’
And now look at the state we are in!
the state we are currently in is called the European Union
we never got asked if we wanted to join it
Total rubbish, it was part of Heath's manifesto and it was massively popular as a policy. Plus we are not in a state called the EU. It is a supranational body. You really do make yourself look foolish with these Daily Express type distortions.
He proves the point that if we do get BINO Leavers would be too stupid to understand.
Sadly it has always been my contention that our relationship is and was far too complicated for the electorate to understand, which is why it should never have gone to such a simplistic referendum.
I have been accused as being an "intellectual snob" by our populist posters on here and else where, but the more I see comments like that recent one of Alanbrooke's the more convinced I become of the opinion that if people are so badly informed on the subject, then they should be happy to delegate the decision to politicians in the hope that most of them are.
With the Tory and Labour leaderships knee-deep in nostalgia, xenophobia and anti-Semitism, all the forward-kooking, interesting ideas are coming from the centre-left.
What I found most interesting about that IPPR report was that amongst the list of signatories was the head of the City of London corporation! A lot of these ideas aren't exactly new - you could look at a collection of Will Hutton newspaper columns - but they're pretty much the only vision being presented at this moment. Very much focused on industry it seems. What do we do about finance?
The last tweet in the header is interesting. Concern about Brexit is lowest in the Remain voting London and Scotland (NI not shown) and highest in the SE and SW, amongst older people, but mostly in the AB groups. It remains a Tory internal scrap, with just 52% of Labour voters mentioning it.
Tories own Brexit. It will be their dead albatross hanging around their neck, like a giant chunky Theresa May necklace.
53% of C2s concerned about Brexit, 52% of Labour voters ie over half too and Brexit the main issue with immigration third.
Yet again you completely to fail to grasp anything about the reason more people voted for Brexit than for anything in post-war British history, particularly over sovereignty concerns but also over immigration and if anyone owns the latter it is Blair for his failure to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004
It’s sobering to think that back in 1975 the Tory Party was heavily pro-EEC (I know, I know) and had the support of it’s Press. In particular the Mail said, on the day we joined that ' ‘for ten years we have campaigned for this day. We have not wavered in our conviction that Britain’s best and brightest future is in Europe’
And now look at the state we are in!
the state we are currently in is called the European Union
we never got asked if we wanted to join it
Total rubbish, it was part of Heath's manifesto and it was massively popular as a policy. Plus we are not in a state called the EU. It is a supranational body. You really do make yourself look foolish with these Daily Express type distortions.
ooh staright to the bluster
check your blood presuure ducky
Thank you for your concern, though please be reassured I have never allowed my blood pressure to be raised by the comments of the ignorant
The last tweet in the header is interesting. Concern about Brexit is lowest in the Remain voting London and Scotland (NI not shown) and highest in the SE and SW, amongst older people, but mostly in the AB groups. It remains a Tory internal scrap, with just 52% of Labour voters mentioning it.
Tories own Brexit. It will be their dead albatross hanging around their neck, like a giant chunky Theresa May necklace.
53% of C2s concerned about Brexit, 52% of Labour voters ie over half too and Brexit the main issue with immigration third.
Yet again you completely to fail to grasp anything about the reason more people voted for Brexit than for anything in post-war British history, particularly over sovereignty concerns but also over immigration and if anyone owns the latter it is Blair for his failure to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004
It’s sobering to think that back in 1975 the Tory Party was heavily pro-EEC (I know, I know) and had the support of it’s Press. In particular the Mail said, on the day we joined that ' ‘for ten years we have campaigned for this day. We have not wavered in our conviction that Britain’s best and brightest future is in Europe’
And now look at the state we are in!
the state we are currently in is called the European Union
we never got asked if we wanted to join it
We consistently voted for politicians and parties which said they did. We can’t have referendums every two minutes; we’re too large a nation to be governed a ‘town meeting’ process.
At least at the moment, that is. Communication technology may one day advance far enough for nations to be able to operate on such a basis, although that will require some means of educating people so that demagoguery doesn’t rule
you are advocating approving mission creep. There comes a point when you have to consult the electorate especially when the politicians and the voters have drifted so far apart,
as I have said before if we had had a vote at either Maastricht or Lisbon it would have carried, but we didnt. And as the poll above shows the public increasingly are losing trust in thosze leading them.
Nice way to dismiss the notion it's legitimate to be pissed off at the contemptible idea of taxing savings that were scraped together.
Still, you've found a way to make the already terrible savings rate even worse. Well done.
The site's at its best when things are at least objective, if not light-hearted. You may well have some response or other trying to justify mindless socialist greed (the tax take is what counts, not hammering individuals, motivated by greed or virtue signalling), but I won't be here to reply, so don't think any lack of response is due to personal dislike or lack of an argument.
...and just to save me explaining what sovereignty means to all the swivel-eyed, here is an explanation why the EU is not, and never will be a sovereign state:
The last tweet in the header is interesting. Concern about Brexit is lowest in the Remain voting London and Scotland (NI not shown) and highest in the SE and SW, amongst older people, but mostly in the AB groups. It remains a Tory internal scrap, with just 52% of Labour voters mentioning it.
Tories own Brexit. It will be their dead albatross hanging around their neck, like a giant chunky Theresa May necklace.
53% of C2s concerned about Brexit, 52% of Labour voters ie over half too and Brexit the main issue with immigration third.
Yet again you cories in 2004
It’s sobering to think that back in 1975 the Tory Party was heavily pro-EEC (I know, I know) and had the support of it’s Press. In particular the Mail said, on the day we joined that ' ‘for ten years we have campaigned for this day. We have not wavered in our conviction that Britain’s best and brightest future is in Europe’
And now look at the state we are in!
the state we are currently in is called the European Union
we never got asked if we wanted to join it
Total rubbish, it was part of Heath's manifesto and it was massively popular as a policy. Plus we are not in a state called the EU. It is a supranational body. You really do make yourself look foolish with these Daily Express type distortions.
He proves the point that if we do get BINO Leavers would be too stupid to understand.
Sadly it has always been my contention that our relationship is and was far too complicated for the electorate to understand, which is why it should never have gone to such a simplistic referendum.
I have been accused as being an "intellectual snob" by our populist posters on here and else where, but the more I see comments like that recent one of Alanbrooke's the more convinced I become of the opinion that if people are so badly informed on the subject, then they should be happy to delegate the decision to politicians in the hope that most of them are.
In various economists' circles, people are openly discussing a re-run of the referendum as they believe that the first decision was made under ignorance. While elegant as a socio-economic theory, it would of course be impossible for any politician to advocate a second referendum citing the word "ignorance" at all, anywhere, at any time.
The last tweet in the header is interesting. Concern about Brexit is lowest in the Remain voting London and Scotland (NI not shown) and highest in the SE and SW, amongst older people, but mostly in the AB groups. It remains a Tory internal scrap, with just 52% of Labour voters mentioning it.
Tories own Brexit. It will be their dead albatross hanging around their neck, like a giant chunky Theresa May necklace.
53% of C2s concerned about Brexit, 52% of Labour voters ie over half too and Brexit the main issue with immigration third.
Yet again you completely to fail to grasp anything about the reason more people voted for Brexit than for anything in post-war British history, particularly over sovereignty concerns but also over immigration and if anyone owns the latter it is Blair for his failure to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004
It’s sobering to think that back in 1975 the Tory Party was heavily pro-EEC (I know, I know) and had the support of it’s Press. In particular the Mail said, on the day we joined that ' ‘for ten years we have campaigned for this day. We have not wavered in our conviction that Britain’s best and brightest future is in Europe’
Today is the day that the parliamentary boundary commissions are due to send their final proposals to the relevant Secretaries of State.
It is now up to the SofS to lay the reports before parliament. We will then find out the final boundaries, as Parliament is unable to amend the proposals only approved or reject.
The last tweet in the header is interesting. Concern about Brexit is lowest in the Remain voting London and Scotland (NI not shown) and highest in the SE and SW, amongst older people, but mostly in the AB groups. It remains a Tory internal scrap, with just 52% of Labour voters mentioning it.
Tories own Brexit. It will be their dead albatross hanging around their neck, like a giant chunky Theresa May necklace.
53% of C2s concerned about Brexit, 52% of Labour voters ie over half too and Brexit the main issue with immigration third.
Yet again you cories in 2004
It’s sobering to think that back in 1975 the Tory Party was heavily pro-EEC (I know, I know) and had the support of it’s Press. In particular the Mail said, on the day we joined that ' ‘for ten years we have campaigned for this day. We have not wavered in our conviction that Britain’s best and brightest future is in Europe’
And now look at the state we are in!
the state we are currently in is called the European Union
we never got asked if we wanted to join it
Total rubbish, it was part of Heath's manifesto and it was massively popular as a policy. Plus we are not in a state called the EU. It is a supranational body. You really do make yourself look foolish with these Daily Express type distortions.
He proves the point that if we do get BINO Leavers would be too stupid to understand.
Sadly it has always been my contention that our relationship is and was far too complicated for the electorate to understand, which is why it should never have gone to such a simplistic referendum.
I have been accused as being an "intellectual snob" by our populist posters on here and else where, but the more I see comments like that recent one of Alanbrooke's the more convinced I become of the opinion that if people are so badly informed on the subject, then they should be happy to delegate the decision to politicians in the hope that most of them are.
In various economists' circles, people are openly discussing a re-run of the referendum as they believe that the first decision was made under ignorance. While elegant as a socio-economic theory, it would of course be impossible for any politician to advocate a second referendum citing the word "ignorance" at all, anywhere, at any time.
Part of me would like to see a second referendum, purely to see what arguments are made by the Remain side in their attempts to convert those who voted Leave last time around.
The last tweet in the header is interesting. Concern about Brexit is lowest in the Remain voting London and Scotland (NI not shown) and highest in the SE and SW, amongst older people, but mostly in the AB groups. It remains a Tory internal scrap, with just 52% of Labour voters mentioning it.
Tories own Brexit. It will be their dead albatross hanging around their neck, like a giant chunky Theresa May necklace.
53% of C2s concerned about Brexit, 52% of Labour voters ie over half too and Brexit the main issue with immigration third.
Yet again you completely to fail to grasp anything about the reason more people voted for Brexit than for anything in post-war British history, particularly over sovereignty concerns but also over immigration and if anyone owns the latter it is Blair for his failure to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004
Christ, why you have this fixation with something that happened nearly 15 years ago and is ancient history to almost everyone? You mention it at least once a day
Since when did the EU become a state? Its like the people on Facebook demanding the restoration of the Palestinian state - what state? Latest one was the "shocking confession" by ex Israeli PM Golda Meir that she "had a Palestinian Passport". Yeah. Mandate Palestine. Again, not a state.
The EU now attends the G7 and G20 and has its own currency and parliament and Head of State and will soon have its own army
The last tweet in the header is interesting. Concern about Brexit is lowest in the Remain voting London and Scotland (NI not shown) and highest in the SE and SW, amongst older people, but mostly in the AB groups. It remains a Tory internal scrap, with just 52% of Labour voters mentioning it.
Tories own Brexit. It will be their dead albatross hanging around their neck, like a giant chunky Theresa May necklace.
53% of C2s concerned about Brexit, 52% of Labour voters ie over half too and Brexit the main issue with immigration third.
Yet again you completely to fail to grasp anything about the reason more people voted for Brexit than for anything in post-war British history, particularly over sovereignty concerns but also over immigration and if anyone owns the latter it is Blair for his failure to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004
It’s sobering to think that back in 1975 the Tory Party was heavily pro-EEC (I know, I know) and had the support of it’s Press. In particular the Mail said, on the day we joined that ' ‘for ten years we have campaigned for this day. We have not wavered in our conviction that Britain’s best and brightest future is in Europe’
And now look at the state we are in!
the state we are currently in is called the European Union
we never got asked if we wanted to join it
We consistently voted for politicians and parties which said they did. We can’t have referendums every two minutes; we’re too large a nation to be governed a ‘town meeting’ process.
At least at the moment, that is. Communication technology may one day advance far enough for nations to be able to operate on such a basis, although that will require some means of educating people so that demagoguery doesn’t rule
you are advocating approving mission creep. There comes a point when you have to consult the electorate especially when the politicians and the voters have drifted so far apart,
as I have said before if we had had a vote at either Maastricht or Lisbon it would have carried, but we didnt. And as the poll above shows the public increasingly are losing trust in thosze leading them.
I’m not advocating approving mission creep. I’m a believer in evolution, especially as currently understood. Hover, Mr B, I agree with your second paragraph, and when one looks at the calibre of many leading politicians, such as Corbyn and Johnson,one cannot blame the public for losing trust!
"In various economists' circles, people are openly discussing a re-run of the referendum as they believe that the first decision wasmade under ignorance. While elegant as a socio-economic theory, it would of course be impossible for any politician to advocate a second referendum citing the word "ignorance" at all, anywhere, at any time"
Indeed, Mr Topping, though most of them, including the charlatans on the Leave side know this to be the case. It is what snake-oil salesmen have always known; don't tell your best customers they are gullible twats
Since when did the EU become a state? Its like the people on Facebook demanding the restoration of the Palestinian state - what state? Latest one was the "shocking confession" by ex Israeli PM Golda Meir that she "had a Palestinian Passport". Yeah. Mandate Palestine. Again, not a state.
The EU now attends the G7 and G20 and has its own currency and parliament and Head of State and will soon have its own army
AFAICR Mortimer attended the last Test Match but I didn't see him opening the bowling. Plus the EU has a currency that sovereign states could and did choose not to join; and I don't see an EU army any more than we have a NATO army.
Mr Sandpit, you ask a good question about what arguments could be used at a future referendum, and it is a tricky one to answer. The problem with referenda is that they are immensely volatile, which is why I don't think we will see another for 20 years on pretty much anything. A binary choice, such as was given in the last one was a dangerous strategy by Cameron who was arrogant about his ability to carry the day. Like unnecessary early general elections they are probably now unfashionable.
If there were to be another there would be huge argument over whether it should be binary or perhaps offering Remain, EEA, WTO, and should it be transferable vote or simple majority. WHat should the question be to ensure unbiased outcomes?
You can see how you can manipulate the "will-o-the-people" argument to get closest to the result you want. Plus if you argue that the last one was democracy in action, why is it not democratic to ask again, and if so at what juncture and how regularly?
AFAICR Mortimer attended the last Test Match but I didn't see him opening the bowling. Plus the EU has a currency that sovereign states could and did choose not to join; and I don't see an EU army any more than we have a NATO army.
Other than that, spot on.
If and when the EU does have armed forces the UK would not be able to resist the opportunity to participate from outside the EU because it would be a treasured opportunity to cut defence spending. Under the guise of capability sharing with coalition partners obviously...
With the Tory and Labour leaderships knee-deep in nostalgia, xenophobia and anti-Semitism, all the forward-kooking, interesting ideas are coming from the centre-left.
Yes, really quite interesting findings. GDP growth figures do raise the question "Whose Growth?"
Any Brexit that fails to address that fundamental feeling of being left behind is not going to be popular.
So Labour spent the whole day yesterday leading the news with their antisemitism enquiry, and after an hours-long meeting of their NEC they still couldn’t agree to simply use the standard definition without caveat, thus pleasing no-one and keeping the story running for longer. Did I get that right?
Well, until the newly-formed NEC in October decides to overturn September's meeting, yes.
The problem Labour has to attend to is where does this anti-Semitism spring from. Most believe it is related to Palestine. I think this is just an excuse. My belief is that it was encapsulated in that racist poster that Corbyn failed to condemn.
The root cause of Hard Left anti-Semitism is based on the same paranoid prejudice of the Far Right - a belief that the capitalist system is a system designed for the benefit of the Jews - the Jewish Conspiracy. That is the real reason Corbyn and his allies hate Jews. Their support of Palestine is simply an effect, not the cause. He is simply a left wing racist, and he and his fellow travellers and supporters should be called out as such.
It's probably more simple than that. He sees the Jews as disproportionately wealthy and he sees the Palestinians as being downtrodden by an imperialist power. An irresistable emnity for anyone on hard left. Though the first of these is a stereotype too far I don't see anything wrong with believing whatever he wants about Israel. No other country is out of bounds nor should they be.
The man has clearly gone stark raving bonkers. He literally can't do a single interview without slipping in to Hitler, Hitler, Hitler....He really does need help.
Since when did the EU become a state? Its like the people on Facebook demanding the restoration of the Palestinian state - what state? Latest one was the "shocking confession" by ex Israeli PM Golda Meir that she "had a Palestinian Passport". Yeah. Mandate Palestine. Again, not a state.
The EU now attends the G7 and G20 and has its own currency and parliament and Head of State and will soon have its own army
AFAICR Mortimer attended the last Test Match but I didn't see him opening the bowling. Plus the EU has a currency that sovereign states could and did choose not to join; and I don't see an EU army any more than we have a NATO army.
Other than that, spot on.
What I don't understand from the "its all about sovereignty" extremists is why they are not concerned about the massive great f****ing airbase near me called "RAF" Lakenheath. If ever there were a surrender of our sovereignty this is it in extremis. Perhaps they are in favour of kicking out the yanks and pulling out of NATO and the jurisdiction of the UN? If so, please explain yourselves
Nice way to dismiss the notion it's legitimate to be pissed off at the contemptible idea of taxing savings that were scraped together.
Still, you've found a way to make the already terrible savings rate even worse. Well done.
The site's at its best when things are at least objective, if not light-hearted. You may well have some response or other trying to justify mindless socialist greed (the tax take is what counts, not hammering individuals, motivated by greed or virtue signalling), but I won't be here to reply, so don't think any lack of response is due to personal dislike or lack of an argument.
Presumably any such wealth tax would be orific progressive. What makes you think you'd meet the minimum threshold?
The man has clearly gone stark raving bonkers. He literally can't do a single interview without slipping in to Hitler, Hitler, Hitler....He really does need help.
I suppose there's no way Milne can stop him, but he could have kept Shami off the radio.
"No shadow minister is available for interview this morning, sorry, bye."
Mr Sandpit, you ask a good question about what arguments could be used at a future referendum, and it is a tricky one to answer. The problem with referenda is that they are immensely volatile, which is why I don't think we will see another for 20 years on pretty much anything. A binary choice, such as was given in the last one was a dangerous strategy by Cameron who was arrogant about his ability to carry the day. Like unnecessary early general elections they are probably now unfashionable.
If there were to be another there would be huge argument over whether it should be binary or perhaps offering Remain, EEA, WTO, and should it be transferable vote or simple majority. WHat should the question be to ensure unbiased outcomes?
You can see how you can manipulate the "will-o-the-people" argument to get closest to the result you want. Plus if you argue that the last one was democracy in action, why is it not democratic to ask again, and if so at what juncture and how regularly?
The peoples vote is a good a demonstration of how distrust in politicians is so common.
It is not a peoples vote, it is a second referendum and lets call it what it is.
Having said that I would not be averse to a second referendum though I am less certain not only of the questions but whether it would resolve anything. Indeed I have no idea how I would vote
Plus if you argue that the last one was democracy in action, why is it not democratic to ask again, and if so at what juncture and how regularly?
It is. And if a party wins a general election with a referendum on re-joining in their manifesto, fair enough.
You are comfortable with this argument because it suits your own new found bias because you think it isn't going to happen under our system of FPTP with either main party. You can pretend this is democratic if you want, but it won't wash with people who think a little more deeply about it
Comments
Any Brexit that fails to address that fundamental feeling of being left behind is not going to be popular.
On the 59-41 poll if that was a repeated poll of the same group of people do we know what the shift in opinion has been?
Random OT RT but per the Bob Woodward book, when Trump goes into the Oval Office alone, the ghost of LBJ sneaks up behind him and flicks his ears.
Edit: Probably a hoax and not in fact in the Bob Woodward book, but still almost definitely true.
https://twitter.com/RogueSNRadvisor/status/1037018634353168384
If Brexit ultimately proves to be BINO or is even reversed before being fully delivered suggests bad news for the mainstream politocians and good news for the populists, indirectly for both UKIP or a successor (UKIP was ahead of the LDs with Survation yesterday) or indirectly for Corbyn
The ghost doing the ear-flicking would have been Calvin Coolidge.
Wasn't Mrs C's point that those that didn't vote are unlikely to take up arms in the event of Brexit not happening. In that sense they would join the remainers staying at home watching the leave riots on the telly.
No wonder your lot got beaten by a bus.
Yet again you completely to fail to grasp anything about the reason more people voted for Brexit than for anything in post-war British history, particularly over sovereignty concerns but also over immigration and if anyone owns the latter it is Blair for his failure to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004
https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2018/white-hotel
I shall try to listen in on Saturday afternoon.
But, I don’t agree with most of those policies (many of which are neo-socialist) because I don’t think they’d do anything to solve it, other than raise costs and decrease employment and investment.
Industrial strategy, a public R&D investment bank and more devolution to cities and regions of public spending are all good ideas, and ones this Government is already starting to make progress upon.
I’d be open to realistic suggestions that decreases tax on employment and increased it on asset wealth provided I could be convinced it wouldn’t damage free enterprise.
If riots occurred on a large scale (regardless of the cause) we might very well see a similar phenomenon recur, if the initial police response is a limp as before.
Surely a bit posthumous from Potter, though?
I don't earn much and have saved what I can. If the Government decided that should be punished I'd be less than pleased. It's a ****ing idiotic notion.
And now look at the state we are in!
To square all that, however, meant throwing away any off the shelf options and going for something complicated and very custom. Something that required a massive dollop of goodwill. Something massively difficult, even without Tory factionalism.
In dealing with the wishes of the Brexit voters, she set herself the most thankless negotiating brief of any British PM since Chamberlain. Note, that to extend this analogy requires not Boris as Churchill, but as one of those recklessly driving the tanks over the Polish border, himself the betrayer.
Succeed or fail, May's efforts have earned respect from me and the last thing I regard them as is betrayal.
(I daresay some kind soul can provide the gif)
we never got asked if we wanted to join it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgtFG4WNbNU
And Rifkind's position doesn't make sense. It's the fact that the politics ARE complicated that explains why King has said we should be prepared for no deal.
The root cause of Hard Left anti-Semitism is based on the same paranoid prejudice of the Far Right - a belief that the capitalist system is a system designed for the benefit of the Jews - the Jewish Conspiracy. That is the real reason Corbyn and his allies hate Jews. Their support of Palestine is simply an effect, not the cause. He is simply a left wing racist, and he and his fellow travellers and supporters should be called out as such.
And the EU didn't come into existence until a couple of decades ago.
And we were promised a referendum on Lisbon which was then reneged upon by Brown.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2018/white-hotel
check your blood presuure ducky
At least at the moment, that is. Communication technology may one day advance far enough for nations to be able to operate on such a basis, although that will require some means of educating people so that demagoguery doesn’t rule
And
Without the investment needed to cope with developments such as automation and the adoption of digital services, the commission warns, the UK is likely to face another decade of stagnant wages, rising household debts and deteriorating infrastructure.
So which is it? Are they worried about productivity or the effects of automation?
Policing the gift tax would be interesting, though worthwhile in my opinion. What concerns me more is that I've been priced out of being able to afford to buy in my home town, but these people would like to punish my family by taxing my parents wealth. We never asked for QE, ultra low interest rates and mass immigration. We never asked for the housing bubble.
Then again, with Potter at the helm and a decent cast this will have a good a chance as any.
I have been accused as being an "intellectual snob" by our populist posters on here and else where, but the more I see comments like that recent one of Alanbrooke's the more convinced I become of the opinion that if people are so badly informed on the subject, then they should be happy to delegate the decision to politicians in the hope that most of them are.
as I have said before if we had had a vote at either Maastricht or Lisbon it would have carried, but we didnt. And as the poll above shows the public increasingly are losing trust in thosze leading them.
Nice way to dismiss the notion it's legitimate to be pissed off at the contemptible idea of taxing savings that were scraped together.
Still, you've found a way to make the already terrible savings rate even worse. Well done.
The site's at its best when things are at least objective, if not light-hearted. You may well have some response or other trying to justify mindless socialist greed (the tax take is what counts, not hammering individuals, motivated by greed or virtue signalling), but I won't be here to reply, so don't think any lack of response is due to personal dislike or lack of an argument.
https://www.quora.com/Why-can’t-the-European-Union-be-called-a-state-and-what-exactly-does-it-need-to-become-one
It is now up to the SofS to lay the reports before parliament. We will then find out the final boundaries, as Parliament is unable to amend the proposals only approved or reject.
Hover, Mr B, I agree with your second paragraph, and when one looks at the calibre of many leading politicians, such as Corbyn and Johnson,one cannot blame the public for losing trust!
Indeed, Mr Topping, though most of them, including the charlatans on the Leave side know this to be the case. It is what snake-oil salesmen have always known; don't tell your best customers they are gullible twats
Other than that, spot on.
If there were to be another there would be huge argument over whether it should be binary or perhaps offering Remain, EEA, WTO, and should it be transferable vote or simple majority. WHat should the question be to ensure unbiased outcomes?
You can see how you can manipulate the "will-o-the-people" argument to get closest to the result you want. Plus if you argue that the last one was democracy in action, why is it not democratic to ask again, and if so at what juncture and how regularly?
https://twitter.com/stephenpollard/status/1037240146922545153
Oh.
But it gives our politicians the power to
And is the ability to sack them if they don’t
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1037241350394183680
I wonder how he feel this morning.
"c'est trop tard, ce qui est dit est dit"
https://twitter.com/jenlipman/status/1037254920032976898?s=19
"No shadow minister is available for interview this morning, sorry, bye."
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanmac/elon-musk-thai-cave-rescuer-accusations-buzzfeed-email
It is not a peoples vote, it is a second referendum and lets call it what it is.
Having said that I would not be averse to a second referendum though I am less certain not only of the questions but whether it would resolve anything. Indeed I have no idea how I would vote