A real choice Mr Corbyn apologist? Are you having a laugh? The choice the country has is between an incompetent Tory party with a highly mediocre leader that is being slowly throttled by brexit fanatics, and a labour party led by a racist anti-Semite who got 2 Es at A-level who wants Britain to follow Venezuela down the economic plughole.
This is choice, but it is of two varying degrees of self harm. It is the choice of Bedlam
Getting 2 Es at A level in 1967 would certainly be the equivalent of 2Cs today given that 30% of pupils sitting the exam faile to reach the lowest Pass grade at that time. Nowadays a mere 2.5% fail to achieve at least an E grade. Academically Corbyn is more qualified than John Major and James Callaghan.
Major passed tough banking exams, Callaghan the Oxford Certificate and civil service exams
..and Major and Callaghan did not go to one of the top Grammar schools in the country and previously a fee paying prep school. Corbyn really is a dullard
How many O levels did Major fail? In the 1950s & 1960s those who had an A level were in the the top 10% - 15% of their cohorts.Most people fail to understand how the system of assessment has changed over time - and then there is rampant grade inflation on top of that.
You are clutching at straws. He is a thicko. Not completely dense, but he isn't exactly at the top of his class, but he perhaps would pretend it is because he doesn't want to be "elitist" (even though he is clearly from an elitist family of wannabe intellectuals)
Frank Field says he will not call a By-Election after taking a few days to listen to his constituents. From that I infer that he realises he would lose.
Big relief for the Gov't on potentially getting more Brexit legislation through that. Makes no odds to Labour really.
Frank Field says he will not call a By-Election after taking a few days to listen to his constituents. From that I infer that he realises he would lose.
Big relief for the Gov't on potentially getting more Brexit legislation through that. Makes no odds to Labour really.
Big relief for his constituents who will be spared what had every possibility of being the nastiest by-election campaign in decades.
Yes Amber, because pushing a deal that the other side has rejected about five times by now is such a good strategy. Unless you are a die-hard Remainer determined to sell out to Brussels, of course....
Clear that May and her cohorts have lost the argument on Chequers completely.
After all, Jeremy-Two-Es lost a significant vote of confidence and he didn't resign, so why would he understand someone who perhaps has a genuine sense of duty doing so on a matter of principle?
Lots of trouble ahead for certain, Tories are for the dustbin and alternative is worse, happy days.
I used to think that Corbyn would campaign in poetry but govern in prose. I now think that the incoming Labour government will be extremely radical, disruptive and transformative on a scale that surpasses Atlee's program.
Is that good?
Almost certainly not. Corbyn is at least asking some interesting questions about what to do about untrammeled capitalism but he has less capacity to answer those questions than the piss soaked homeless wino that he so authentically resembles.
There will be a species of savage joy to be grimly enjoyed at the reaction of the pb.com tories though. So, there's that.
Yes Amber, because pushing a deal that the other side has rejected about five times by now is such a good strategy. Unless you are a die-hard Remainer determined to sell out to Brussels, of course....
Clear that May and her cohorts have lost the argument on Chequers completely.
Is that less preferable to being a die-hard-headbanging leaver determined to sell out to Donald Trump (and perhaps Vladimir Putin)?
Lots of trouble ahead for certain, Tories are for the dustbin and alternative is worse, happy days.
I used to think that Corbyn would campaign in poetry but govern in prose. I now think that the incoming Labour government will be extremely radical, disruptive and transformative on a scale that surpasses Atlee's program.
Is that good?
Almost certainly not. Corbyn is at least asking some interesting questions about what to do about untrammeled capitalism but he has less capacity to answer those questions than the piss soaked homeless wino that he so authentically resembles.
There will be a species of savage joy to be grimly enjoyed at the reaction of the pb.com tories though. So, there's that.
Lots of trouble ahead for certain, Tories are for the dustbin and alternative is worse, happy days.
I used to think that Corbyn would campaign in poetry but govern in prose. I now think that the incoming Labour government will be extremely radical, disruptive and transformative on a scale that surpasses Atlee's program.
Is that good?
Almost certainly not. Corbyn is at least asking some interesting questions about what to do about untrammeled capitalism but he has less capacity to answer those questions than the piss soaked homeless wino that he so authentically resembles.
There will be a species of savage joy to be grimly enjoyed at the reaction of the pb.com tories though. So, there's that.
Can we have a people's vote on him after his first year in office ?
Chris Evans to leave R2. Wonder if he is another that wouldn't take a pay cut?
Another uselesss overpaid tw**, good riddance. BBC certainly needs a clearout of overpaid under talented staff. Time they were made to compete for their cushy numbers.
The one thing you can say about Chris Evans is that he doesn't appear on TV channels run for the propaganda purposes of a foreign despot like a certain ex-leader of the SNP. As I said the other day, the SNP has a pretty nasty history of providing succour to fascist regimes, so I suppose you could say that Salmond is being consistent in that particular tradition.
Big leap there from an unfunny DJ to politics. You obviously haev a grudge against SNP and Salmond, and also a bit loopy on your history. Your imaginary "succour to fascist regimes" where reality is the Tories and their propaganda sheet the Daly Heil were right in among it is ignored. Go read your hsitory books and get real.
I think you need to read your history and get honest about what nationalism actually means , but then maybe you are not worried about Salmond working for RT and the SNP's one time support for the Axis powers. The clue is in the name.
Oh Dear , xenophobic Little Englander loses the plot.
Oh dear, you perhaps ought to do your homework . Read some of my posts, Little Englander is an epithet that will not work with me. Little Englanders are much more aligned to your nasty creed. The SNP is just a load of UKIPers in kilts
What a bell end, you know nothing about me you cretin , your nasty bigotry says all I need to know about your bigoted viewpoint. Go polish your boots and iron your brown shirt.
Lots of trouble ahead for certain, Tories are for the dustbin and alternative is worse, happy days.
I used to think that Corbyn would campaign in poetry but govern in prose. I now think that the incoming Labour government will be extremely radical, disruptive and transformative on a scale that surpasses Atlee's program.
Is that good?
Almost certainly not. Corbyn is at least asking some interesting questions about what to do about untrammeled capitalism but he has less capacity to answer those questions than the piss soaked homeless wino that he so authentically resembles.
There will be a species of savage joy to be grimly enjoyed at the reaction of the pb.com tories though. So, there's that.
A Corbyn government will be another Brexit related disaster that Boris et al will claim was nothing to do with them
Indeed so, probably the last great British statesman. Someone who believed in something and effected change for the good, even if it was unpopular with many at the time.
Where are any politicians today offering a positive vision of the future and proposing serious solutions to today’s problems?
We should get RCS to make a video: Whatever Happened to Sterling M3? We never hear about the money supply these days. #MrsThatchersLegacy
Because politicians have been printing money and they don’t want us to know
And yet inflation has not taken off. It is ironic that Mrs Thatcher is one of our most influential prime ministers despite being wrong on almost everything. Though you could say the same in spades about Churchill.
Asset price inflation has
Consumer price inflation has benefited from the internet and from globalisation
(As for @Topping earlier point that free capitalism is working just fine it isn’t. The gains are being hoarded and the costs are being shared. The concept is good but companies and individuals need to relearn their responsibilities and duties as well as the benefits. If it doesn’t change to work for more people there will be revolution. It’s this that explains, in my view, why Corbyn is doing so well despite all his baggage)
Frank Field says he will not call a By-Election after taking a few days to listen to his constituents. From that I infer that he realises he would lose.
Big relief for the Gov't on potentially getting more Brexit legislation through that. Makes no odds to Labour really.
Big relief for his constituents who will be spared what had every possibility of being the nastiest by-election campaign in decades.
I think it would have been a fairly straightforward victory for the Labour candidate to be honest. Field probably realised that after a weekend of asking about, hence why he has cravenly stepped back from the brink.
Chris Evans to leave R2. Wonder if he is another that wouldn't take a pay cut?
Another uselesss overpaid tw**, good riddance. BBC certainly needs a clearout of overpaid under talented staff. Time they were made to compete for their cushy numbers.
The one thing you can say about Chris Evans is that he doesn't appear on TV channels run for the propaganda purposes of a foreign despot like a certain ex-leader of the SNP. As I said the other day, the SNP has a pretty nasty history of providing succour to fascist regimes, so I suppose you could say that Salmond is being consistent in that particular tradition.
Big leap there from an unfunny DJ to politics. You obviously haev a grudge against SNP and Salmond, and also a bit loopy on your history. Your imaginary "succour to fascist regimes" where reality is the Tories and their propaganda sheet the Daly Heil were right in among it is ignored. Go read your hsitory books and get real.
I think you need to read your history and get honest about what nationalism actually means , but then maybe you are not worried about Salmond working for RT and the SNP's one time support for the Axis powers. The clue is in the name.
Oh Dear , xenophobic Little Englander loses the plot.
Oh dear, you perhaps ought to do your homework . Read some of my posts, Little Englander is an epithet that will not work with me. Little Englanders are much more aligned to your nasty creed. The SNP is just a load of UKIPers in kilts
What a bell end, you know nothing about me you cretin , your nasty bigotry says all I need to know about your bigoted viewpoint. Go polish your boots and iron your brown shirt.
Haha. Well that kind of response is exactly what I expected from an abusive angry nationalist. I think you will find that the brownshirts were nationalists too, so no, that is not a garment I would wish to wear, but it suits you mate.
Just to get your eyes really swivelling like a UKIPer read this:
I was then an SDP voter. I would never have voted for the Labour Party while they had Foot or Kinnock in charge. I am not sure how representative I was of such voters but there we are.
Lots of trouble ahead for certain, Tories are for the dustbin and alternative is worse, happy days.
I used to think that Corbyn would campaign in poetry but govern in prose. I now think that the incoming Labour government will be extremely radical, disruptive and transformative on a scale that surpasses Atlee's program.
Is that good?
Almost certainly not. Corbyn is at least asking some interesting questions about what to do about untrammeled capitalism but he has less capacity to answer those questions than the piss soaked homeless wino that he so authentically resembles.
There will be a species of savage joy to be grimly enjoyed at the reaction of the pb.com tories though. So, there's that.
Due to the friends he keeps, his lack of imagination, courage and compassion, Corbyn will likely do more than anyone to discredit Socialism in this country (as well as undermine the material basis for making socialism possible by impoverishing the nation).
And yet. He still might be the best option on offer.
Leave voters were not willing to accept the status quo. Corbyn voters are similarly looking to upend a status quo that is intolerable to them.
Frank Field says he will not call a By-Election after taking a few days to listen to his constituents. From that I infer that he realises he would lose.
Big relief for the Gov't on potentially getting more Brexit legislation through that. Makes no odds to Labour really.
Big relief for his constituents who will be spared what had every possibility of being the nastiest by-election campaign in decades.
I think it would have been a fairly straightforward victory for the Labour candidate to be honest. Field probably realised that after a weekend of asking about, hence why he has cravenly stepped back from the brink.
It would be clearly a big risk. Much better for him to stay in parliament as long as possible and cause the Cult as much trouble as possible, possibly encouraging a group of Labour MPs to also resign the whip and sit as "Labour Independent", offering to return to the fold when the anti-Semite has been deposed
I was then an SDP voter. I would never have voted for the Labour Party while they had Foot or Kinnock in charge. I am not sure how representative I was of such voters but there we are.
IIRC, SDP-Liberal voters split more Con than Lab on second choice in both 1983 and 1987 - which is consistent with the usual break among centrist third-party supporters, in that they will generally go for the more popular of the two larger parties. (Though the Lib Dems have tended to define themselves as centre-left, or at least centre/centre-left, so all being equal would tend more to Lab than Con).
Hmm. I was a candidate in that election (for Chelsea...hey, I got 13%) and it certainly felt as though the Alliance was mainly (two thirds?) taking votes from Labour. It was seen as a falling out in the left-of-centre family, and not a matter for Conservatives to become involved in. If they'd had someone like Ken Clarke on board, that might have been different.
A real choice Mr Corbyn apologist? Are you having a laugh? The choice the country has is between an incompetent Tory party with a highly mediocre leader that is being slowly throttled by brexit fanatics, and a labour party led by a racist anti-Semite who got 2 Es at A-level who wants Britain to follow Venezuela down the economic plughole.
This is choice, but it is of two varying degrees of self harm. It is the choice of Bedlam
Getting 2 Es at A level in 1967 would certainly be the equivalent of 2Cs today given that 30% of pupils sitting the exam faile to reach the lowest Pass grade at that time. Nowadays a mere 2.5% fail to achieve at least an E grade. Academically Corbyn is more qualified than John Major and James Callaghan.
Major passed tough banking exams, Callaghan the Oxford Certificate and civil service exams
..and Major and Callaghan did not go to one of the top Grammar schools in the country and previously a fee paying prep school. Corbyn really is a dullard
How many O levels did Major fail? In the 1950s & 1960s those who had an A level were in the the top 10% - 15% of their cohorts.Most people fail to understand how the system of assessment has changed over time - and then there is rampant grade inflation on top of that.
I got my 2A's and a B in 1972 and E's were considered pretty crap then. Face it Corbyn is thick as they come and it shows.
But lots of pupils failed A levels in 1967 - and 1972 . Nowadays almost nobody fails - and pupils not in the bottom 30% could expect a C grade.Moreover , back in the 1960s and 1970s only the more academic pupils sat A levels - something which has long ceased to be true.
Had he not been determined to see this through, he ought not have floated the idea.
The man is a fool.
Did he ever say he might trigger a by-election? I read that he said he might stand as an independent at the next election but that's not the same thing.
I was then an SDP voter. I would never have voted for the Labour Party while they had Foot or Kinnock in charge. I am not sure how representative I was of such voters but there we are.
Ditto. In my case the SDP took a vote away from the Tories (which made absolutely no difference whatsoever in Dundee West, naturally).
Hmm. I was a candidate in that election (for Chelsea...hey, I got 13%) and it certainly felt as though the Alliance was mainly (two thirds?) taking votes from Labour. It was seen as a falling out in the left-of-centre family, and not a matter for Conservatives to become involved in. If they'd had someone like Ken Clarke on board, that might have been different.
That’s consistent with his argument. The point is that you can’t assume that in the absence of the SDP, those voters would have backed Labour. In a way it’s like the Tories assuming 2015 UKIP votes were rightly theirs.
A real choice Mr Corbyn apologist? Are you having a laugh? The choice the country has is between an incompetent Tory party with a highly mediocre leader that is being slowly throttled by brexit fanatics, and a labour party led by a racist anti-Semite who got 2 Es at A-level who wants Britain to follow Venezuela down the economic plughole.
This is choice, but it is of two varying degrees of self harm. It is the choice of Bedlam
Getting 2 Es at A level in 1967 would certainly be the equivalent of 2Cs today given that 30% of pupils sitting the exam faile to reach the lowest Pass grade at that time. Nowadays a mere 2.5% fail to achieve at least an E grade. Academically Corbyn is more qualified than John Major and James Callaghan.
Major passed tough banking exams, Callaghan the Oxford Certificate and civil service exams
..and Major and Callaghan did not go to one of the top Grammar schools in the country and previously a fee paying prep school. Corbyn really is a dullard
How many O levels did Major fail? In the 1950s & 1960s those who had an A level were in the the top 10% - 15% of their cohorts.Most people fail to understand how the system of assessment has changed over time - and then there is rampant grade inflation on top of that.
I got my 2A's and a B in 1972 and E's were considered pretty crap then. Face it Corbyn is thick as they come and it shows.
But lots of pupils failed A levels in 1967 - and 1972 . Nowadays almost nobody fails - and pupils not in the bottom 30% could expect a C grade.Moreover , back in the 1960s and 1970s only the more academic pupils sat A levels - something which has long ceased to be true.
It sounds like you are a bit desperate to nail the "Corbyn is a thicko" argument.
Think of it like this, if a close relative of yours went in for surgery, would you feel a little concerned if the surgeon conducting the procedure went to Eton (or a Grammar school of similar standing), but only managed two Es at A level?
So you can be an open antisemite and get elected to the ruling body of the main opposition party in the UK? What a great message that sends.
Well done Labour Party members. Well done indeed.
They are a disgrace. Is there another major political party in the West that is so riddled with unabashed racism?
Fidesz.
Just looked them up. I think Jezza's lot would give them a run for their money in the European Bigotry Cup. It would be a close game with Willsman scoring the decider in extra time
Every week is Theresa May's worst-ever week -- since last week, that is.
This pattern is going to repeat itself again and again. She has grasped the truth that in politics, as in life, a bad plan is better than no plan. While her opponents, on all sides, wander around like King Lear, claiming, "I will do such things/What they are, yet I know not," May will survive.
She's a modern-day Rasputin. They shoot her, they stab her, they poison her -- and still she keeps walking.
Every week is Theresa May's worst-ever week -- since last week, that is.
This pattern is going to repeat itself again and again. She has grasped the truth that in politics, as in life, a bad plan is better than no plan. While her opponents, on all sides, wander around like King Lear, claiming, "I will do such things/What they are, yet I know not," May will survive.
She's a modern-day Rasputin. They shoot her, they stab her, they poison her -- and still she keeps walking.
Difficult to know how she is going to shag the Tsarina though
A real choice Mr Corbyn apologist? Are you having a laugh? The choice the country has is between an incompetent Tory party with a highly mediocre leader that is being slowly throttled by brexit fanatics, and a labour party led by a racist anti-Semite who got 2 Es at A-level who wants Britain to follow Venezuela down the economic plughole.
..and Major and Callaghan did not go to one of the top Grammar schools in the country and previously a fee paying prep school. Corbyn really is a dullard
How many O levels did Major fail? In the 1950s & 1960s those who had an A level were in the the top 10% - 15% of their cohorts.Most people fail to understand how the system of assessment has changed over time - and then there is rampant grade inflation on top of that.
I got my 2A's and a B in 1972 and E's were considered pretty crap then. Face it Corbyn is thick as they come and it shows.
But lots of pupils failed A levels in 1967 - and 1972 . Nowadays almost nobody fails - and pupils not in the bottom 30% could expect a C grade.Moreover , back in the 1960s and 1970s only the more academic pupils sat A levels - something which has long ceased to be true.
It sounds like you are a bit desperate to nail the "Corbyn is a thicko" argument.
Think of it like this, if a close relative of yours went in for surgery, would you feel a little concerned if the surgeon conducting the procedure went to Eton (or a Grammar school of similar standing), but only managed two Es at A level?
I have never been a Corbynite and have already made it clear that I will be spoiling my ballot paper at the next election - albeit for unrelated reasons. Unlikely ,I suspect , that many accept your suggestion that attending a Grammar School was comparable -in terms of privilege - to being a pupil at Eton. I would have far more sympathy with your point were you referring to present day A level grades. It makes no sense to describe a given grade from the 1960s as if nothing has changed over the intervening period. Until 1963 A level results were simply classified as Distinction - Pass and Fail.To repeat , only the more academic entered the Sixth Form to study A levels in the 60s and early 70s , and 30% of pupils did not achieve a Pass in a given A level exam.
The deal that Britain is heading for is going to lack any positive support from any quarter.
The ideological chasms between the leaver camps are unbridgeable.
The outcome which would receive the most support BY FAR is simply to stay in. Ironically it seems the least likely outcome, if you discount BINO.
Various Leave factions are still proposing new fantasy solutions for what happens next March. Abandoning a negotiated Withdrawal Agreement and pretending we can just claim squatters rights in the EEA is the latest and just illustrates their sense of panic.
It would only take one of them to say publicly that Brexit is more trouble than its worth for the balance to shift.
The deal that Britain is heading for is going to lack any positive support from any quarter.
"I venture to say, no war can be long carried on against the will of the people."
That's back-to-front. Any number of wars carry on interminably because of an inability to reach peace. it's not that people don't want peace in principle; it's that they don't want *this* peace, so would rather keep on fighting.
That said, i think most of the country just want Brexit put behind them, whatever the extremists on both sides might prefer.
Various Leave factions are still proposing new fantasy solutions for what happens next March. Abandoning a negotiated Withdrawal Agreement and pretending we can just claim squatters rights in the EEA is the latest and just illustrates their sense of panic...
Not just the Leave factions, Nick Boles has come out supporting this idea.
It's barmy (especially the variant where we make clear that we only intend to squat there temporarily) for the obvious reason that it would still require a negotiation, this time with 31 countries, all of whom would have to agree to whatever terms were proposed, and all by March 29th from a standing start.
Various Leave factions are still proposing new fantasy solutions for what happens next March. Abandoning a negotiated Withdrawal Agreement and pretending we can just claim squatters rights in the EEA is the latest and just illustrates their sense of panic...
Not just the Leave factions, Nick Boles has come out supporting this idea.
It's barmy (especially the variant where we make clear that we only intend to squat there temporarily) for the obvious reason that it would still require a negotiation, this time with 31 countries, all of whom would have to agree to whatever terms were proposed, and all by March 29th from a standing start.
It looks like a better plan that the current choice between Chequers (which is apparently impossible if Barnier is to be believed) or a WTO crash-out.
Where Justine Greening is wrong is that pick 100 people off the street and -1 of them will be able to explain the Chequers deal so how she thinks it is unpopular with "the British People" and why that is an exocet goodness only knows.
Various Leave factions are still proposing new fantasy solutions for what happens next March. Abandoning a negotiated Withdrawal Agreement and pretending we can just claim squatters rights in the EEA is the latest and just illustrates their sense of panic...
Not just the Leave factions, Nick Boles has come out supporting this idea.
It's barmy (especially the variant where we make clear that we only intend to squat there temporarily) for the obvious reason that it would still require a negotiation, this time with 31 countries, all of whom would have to agree to whatever terms were proposed, and all by March 29th from a standing start.
It looks like a better plan that the current choice between Chequers (which is apparently impossible if Barnier is to be believed) or a WTO crash-out.
The idea that we can unilaterally force our way into EFTA, and switch from one side of the EEA agreement to the opposite side without asking anyone's consent, is not a plan at all, it's bonkers.
There could have been a plan that we negotiate to join EFTA, and negotiate with the EU the terms of EEA membership, but the time to begin that long process, if ever, was two years ago. I can't see the attraction myself; even if it it could be done, it clearly doesn't respect the referendum result, since it would mean we were in exactly the same position as we started from on Freedom of Movement (the failure to address which in Cameron's renegotiation was, if you recall, largely what got us into this mess in the first place).
Shaun Bailey is now second favourite after Sadiq Khan at 3s (BF) and 5/2 (Laddies).
I see that Joy Morrissey (25s) has just been endorsed by Andrea Leadsome.
No idea about Andrew Boff but if Bailey gets the nomination then his odds are likely to shorten further, especially if, as seems possible from today's ES, George is gunning for Sadiq.
Decided to back Morrissey and Boff a little (not bothered with Farage, whose odds sit between them). Should be able to finish ahead regardless of who gets the nomination but hopefully it'll be Bailey.
Where Justine Greening is wrong is that pick 100 people off the street and -1 of them will be able to explain the Chequers deal so how she thinks it is unpopular with "the British People" and why that is an exocet goodness only knows.
The deal that Britain is heading for is going to lack any positive support from any quarter.
But will be the second choice of the vast majority and in a polarised society is that not a good thing?
So is that like the Single Transferable Vote system or proportional Representation?
It falls within the narrow band of possible compromises. Not leaving (without a large and demonstrable shift in opinion) or a crash out (unless due to demonstrable EU bad faith) will poison democracy.
Decided to back Morrissey and Boff a little (not bothered with Farage, whose odds sit between them). Should be able to finish ahead regardless of who gets the nomination but hopefully it'll be Bailey.
Yes I'm sure the winner of the nomination will shorten
The idea that we can unilaterally force our way into EFTA, and switch from one side of the EEA agreement to the opposite side without asking anyone's consent, is not a plan at all, it's bonkers.
There could have been a plan that we negotiate to join EFTA, and negotiate with the EU the terms of EEA membership, but the time to begin that long process, if ever, was two years ago. I can't see the attraction myself; even if it it could be done, it clearly doesn't respect the referendum result, since it would mean we were in exactly the same position as we started from on Freedom of Movement (the failure to address which in Cameron's renegotiation was, if you recall, largely what got us into this mess in the first place).
I don't think it's any more bonkers than May pursuing an agreement that Barnier say he is "strongly opposed" to key parts of, which was observed by many back in June as being a likely response. We seem to be heading towards crashing out of the EU by default, because neither the UK government or the EU negotiators will give ground that is necessary to make a deal.
Of course a lot of this might be moot soon, as it's hard to see how May can continue unless the EU agree to her proposals.
Every week is Theresa May's worst-ever week -- since last week, that is.
This pattern is going to repeat itself again and again. She has grasped the truth that in politics, as in life, a bad plan is better than no plan. While her opponents, on all sides, wander around like King Lear, claiming, "I will do such things/What they are, yet I know not," May will survive.
She's a modern-day Rasputin. They shoot her, they stab her, they poison her -- and still she keeps walking.
Difficult to know how she is going to shag the Tsarina though
I don't think it's any more bonkers than May pursuing an agreement that Barnier say he is "strongly opposed" to key parts of, which was observed by many back in June as being a likely response. We seem to be heading towards crashing out of the EU by default, because neither the UK government or the EU negotiators will give ground that is necessary to make a deal.
Of course a lot of this might be moot soon, as it's hard to see how May can continue unless the EU agree to her proposals.
It's a negotiation, who knows? The EU doesn't seem to want to make a counter-offer. If they don't want to agree to something based on Chequers, then we might crash out (in the worst case), or at least reach agreement only on the basis of a tidy exit to WTO terms. That's not in either side's interests, but there's no point pretending that there is some easy alternative, unilaterally available to us, when there isn't.
Mr. Topping, if it's Bailey I can throw a slab (for me, I realise others here play for large sums) of money on Khan and enjoy being green either way. Bit trickier if it's the others.
Mr. Evershed, Lando is clearly Star Warsian in origin.
I am not prepared to believe that May could have emerged from Chequers with, er, Chequers and it had not had a once-over from Brussels.
At one point I would have treated that as a no brainer. Now, in light of which side of the bed Barnier got out of yesterday, it's looking, well, questionable. Of course he may well get out the other side tomorrow.
That's not in either side's interests, but there's no point pretending that there is some easy alternative, unilaterally available to us, when there isn't.
I accept it won't be easy, but if the choice is between the impossible or a crash out, then hasn't Boles got a point about needing a plan B? It doesn't even sound all that ridiculous to me, we'd leave the EU, but give ourselves plenty of time to reach a free trade deal. Okay we need to get a lot of countries to agree to us doing that, but in principle it looks like a good option if we can't make a deal shortly.
I accept it won't be easy, but if the choice is between the impossible or a crash out, then hasn't Boles got a point about needing a plan B? It doesn't even sound all that ridiculous to me, we'd leave the EU, but give ourselves plenty of time to reach a free trade deal. Okay we need to get a lot of countries to agree to us doing that, but in principle it looks like a good option if we can't make a deal shortly.
If we need a plan B that gives ourselves plenty of time, doesn't screw business,and will upset the headbangers anyway, withdraw Article 50...
It is interesting that the conversation, even among Brexiteers, has completely abandoned sunlit uplands for variations of "How can we limit the damage?"
I am not prepared to believe that May could have emerged from Chequers with, er, Chequers and it had not had a once-over from Brussels.
At one point I would have treated that as a no brainer. Now, in light of which side of the bed Barnier got out of yesterday, it's looking, well, questionable. Of course he may well get out the other side tomorrow.
The other point of view is that perhaps the EU initially made soothing sounds about Chequers on the understanding that the UK goverment would water down the deal over the summer. Instead both sides appear to be digging their heals in.
I don't know to be honest, maybe we will get a deal in the end, but I do agree with Nick Boles that there ought to be a Plan B as an alternative to crashing out.
I don't know to be honest, maybe we will get a deal in the end, but I do agree with Nick Boles that there ought to be a Plan B as an alternative to crashing out.
And that Plan B should be remain.
If BoZo wants to submit a letter, hope for a VoNC, win a leadership contest and a GE so that he can have a go at negotiating BoZo Brexit, have at it...
I am not prepared to believe that May could have emerged from Chequers with, er, Chequers and it had not had a once-over from Brussels.
At one point I would have treated that as a no brainer. Now, in light of which side of the bed Barnier got out of yesterday, it's looking, well, questionable. Of course he may well get out the other side tomorrow.
The other point of view is that perhaps the EU initially made soothing sounds about Chequers on the understanding that the UK goverment would water down the deal over the summer. Instead both sides appear to be digging their heals in.
I don't know to be honest, maybe we will get a deal in the end, but I do agree with Nick Boles that there ought to be a Plan B as an alternative to crashing out.
It was just such a rotten deal from our perspective that you assumed that there were compromises and understandings behind it which had got her to that position. To get there all by herself would be a remarkable achievement, even for Olly Robbins.
I am not at all sure about the EFTA proposal. I think what would be better is to accept that there is no overarching deal but a series of sub-deals on the essential elements that keep the ports operating, planes flying etc, ie all the technical and boring stuff. We really should be working hard on that now, should have been for quite a while in fact.
Comments
Yes Amber, because pushing a deal that the other side has rejected about five times by now is such a good strategy. Unless you are a die-hard Remainer determined to sell out to Brussels, of course....
Clear that May and her cohorts have lost the argument on Chequers completely.
There will be a species of savage joy to be grimly enjoyed at the reaction of the pb.com tories though. So, there's that.
https://twitter.com/BoyCharioteer/status/1036593365071085569
https://twitter.com/charliemansell/status/1036590412931244033
Also important to note that as of yet, Corbyn has not agreed to let the elected Deputy Leader of the Labour Party make a platform speech...
Had he not been determined to see this through, he ought not have floated the idea.
The man is a fool.
So what attracted him to move from 9m to 400k audience I wonder......
https://jonworth.eu/candidates-for-commission-president-2019-spitzenkandidaten/
Just to get your eyes really swivelling like a UKIPer read this:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/jackie-kemp/oops-are-the-snps-roots-showing_b_9590490.html
https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1036204544244494337
And yet. He still might be the best option on offer.
Leave voters were not willing to accept the status quo. Corbyn voters are similarly looking to upend a status quo that is intolerable to them.
https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1036603541710954496
Perhaps, in traditional Labour fashion, they can't make the numbers add up!
https://twitter.com/TheRedRoar/status/1036605815908691969
Congratulations to the People's Committee for the Proletariat.
Well done Labour Party members. Well done indeed.
https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1036205510427598850?s=21
https://twitter.com/Carlossainz55/status/1036582603799912449
Vote early, vote often...
https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1036606422010810369
Think of it like this, if a close relative of yours went in for surgery, would you feel a little concerned if the surgeon conducting the procedure went to Eton (or a Grammar school of similar standing), but only managed two Es at A level?
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/09/03/opinions/theresa-may-modern-raputin-mcternan-opinion-intl/index.html
This pattern is going to repeat itself again and again. She has grasped the truth that in politics, as in life, a bad plan is better than no plan. While her opponents, on all sides, wander around like King Lear, claiming, "I will do such things/What they are, yet I know not," May will survive.
She's a modern-day Rasputin. They shoot her, they stab her, they poison her -- and still she keeps walking.
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1036595074753351680
I would have far more sympathy with your point were you referring to present day A level grades. It makes no sense to describe a given grade from the 1960s as if nothing has changed over the intervening period. Until 1963 A level results were simply classified as Distinction - Pass and Fail.To repeat , only the more academic entered the Sixth Form to study A levels in the 60s and early 70s , and 30% of pupils did not achieve a Pass in a given A level exam.
It might almost be a Pont cartoon.
Thanks all for the kind comments. Off now to help son move into his new flat.
The outcome which would receive the most support BY FAR is simply to stay in. Ironically it seems the least likely outcome, if you discount BINO.
It would only take one of them to say publicly that Brexit is more trouble than its worth for the balance to shift.
That said, i think most of the country just want Brexit put behind them, whatever the extremists on both sides might prefer.
It's barmy (especially the variant where we make clear that we only intend to squat there temporarily) for the obvious reason that it would still require a negotiation, this time with 31 countries, all of whom would have to agree to whatever terms were proposed, and all by March 29th from a standing start.
McLaren pick British teenager Lando Norris to replace Stoffel Vandoorne for F1 2019 - despite Brexit.
General Pierre Bosquet, on the Charge of the Light Brigade
There could have been a plan that we negotiate to join EFTA, and negotiate with the EU the terms of EEA membership, but the time to begin that long process, if ever, was two years ago. I can't see the attraction myself; even if it it could be done, it clearly doesn't respect the referendum result, since it would mean we were in exactly the same position as we started from on Freedom of Movement (the failure to address which in Cameron's renegotiation was, if you recall, largely what got us into this mess in the first place).
Shaun Bailey is now second favourite after Sadiq Khan at 3s (BF) and 5/2 (Laddies).
I see that Joy Morrissey (25s) has just been endorsed by Andrea Leadsome.
No idea about Andrew Boff but if Bailey gets the nomination then his odds are likely to shorten further, especially if, as seems possible from today's ES, George is gunning for Sadiq.
So Lando could gel with the spaniard Sainz.
Of course a lot of this might be moot soon, as it's hard to see how May can continue unless the EU agree to her proposals.
That would strengthen democracy if it was undertaken by people of integrity and purpose.
So we're fucked.
Mr. Evershed, Lando is clearly Star Warsian in origin.
He is joining Gove in being the only member of the government who is getting on with the day job.
Eventually some of them will figure it out...
I don't know to be honest, maybe we will get a deal in the end, but I do agree with Nick Boles that there ought to be a Plan B as an alternative to crashing out.
NEW THREAD
If BoZo wants to submit a letter, hope for a VoNC, win a leadership contest and a GE so that he can have a go at negotiating BoZo Brexit, have at it...
I will bet against his success.
I am not at all sure about the EFTA proposal. I think what would be better is to accept that there is no overarching deal but a series of sub-deals on the essential elements that keep the ports operating, planes flying etc, ie all the technical and boring stuff. We really should be working hard on that now, should have been for quite a while in fact.
Labour membership up by 10,000 in August.
NEC Election gone his way.
Cant wait for PM Jezza
Open selection on the way
Change is coming