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  • If it's wearing an EU-starred collar, I'm thinking it ain't a Jacob Rees-Mogg.....
    No, I mean the one at bottom-left!
  • Looks like No10 and some key cabinet members have called the leavers bluff to actually have a plan.

    So far the Boris and JRM camp don't seem to have an answer at all.

    At Sajid Javid's news conference this morning when asked about Boris (as the attendees laughed at the question and more especially Boris) he said that if Boris has a plan he needs to come forward with it but in the meantime TM and the government are working for the best deal for the UK.

    Sajid is becoming more polished and makes Boris just look like a clown, which in many eyes he is
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    As far as his leadership ambitions go, Johnson’s maths problem could be fatal. There are enough MPs to dump Chequers, but are there enough to oust May and instal him? With every hurdle he passes, the number he needs to meet gets bigger, and the chances of him doing so get smaller.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/09/theresa-may-has-numbers-problem-brexit-boris-johnson-s-bigger

    Perhaps his hope is that if Chequers was voted down, she'd step down.

    More likely he's expecting the party to chuck her after March, and this is all just positioning.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    Alanbrooke: "I thought patriots were scoundrels in their last refuge ?"



    No, Samuel Johnson was referring to the type of person who, when all other rational argument has been exhausted resorts to patriotism as their last defence. Sounds a bit like a lot of Brexiters I have spoken to.

    instead of speaking "to" Brexiters why not try speaking "with" them ?

  • Looks like No10 and some key cabinet members have called the leavers bluff to actually have a plan.

    So far the Boris and JRM camp don't seem to have an answer at all.

    Because they don't. They never had one. In their fantasies this was going to be easy. Turns out it is all but impossible.
    Worse, the Brexiteers not only do not have a plan, they do not even agree on the same fantasy, the same ideal outcome.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,916

    Looks like No10 and some key cabinet members have called the leavers bluff to actually have a plan.

    So far the Boris and JRM camp don't seem to have an answer at all.

    Because they don't. They never had one. In their fantasies this was going to be easy. Turns out it is all but impossible.
    What's May's plan if the EU says no? May should listen to Nick Boles, we really might need that Plan B in a few weeks time, and his idea is a good as any I've heard from either of the main Remainers or Leavers.
  • Looks like No10 and some key cabinet members have called the leavers bluff to actually have a plan.

    So far the Boris and JRM camp don't seem to have an answer at all.

    Because they don't. They never had one. In their fantasies this was going to be easy. Turns out it is all but impossible.
    Worse, the Brexiteers not only do not have a plan, they do not even agree on the same fantasy, the same ideal outcome.
    Yep. Indeed, many of them have moved their position since the Referendum to be even more hard brexit e.g. Before Ref: we'd be insane to leave the single market type; after Ref: WTO is the way folks etc etc
  • glw said:

    Looks like No10 and some key cabinet members have called the leavers bluff to actually have a plan.

    So far the Boris and JRM camp don't seem to have an answer at all.

    Because they don't. They never had one. In their fantasies this was going to be easy. Turns out it is all but impossible.
    What's May's plan if the EU says no? May should listen to Nick Boles, we really might need that Plan B in a few weeks time, and his idea is a good as any I've heard from either of the main Remainers or Leavers.
    One of Wilson's Cabinet, Callaghan iirc, told him that one day they might need the "life raft" of a referendum on EU.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    Looks like No10 and some key cabinet members have called the leavers bluff to actually have a plan.

    So far the Boris and JRM camp don't seem to have an answer at all.

    Because they don't. They never had one. In their fantasies this was going to be easy. Turns out it is all but impossible.
    Worse, the Brexiteers not only do not have a plan, they do not even agree on the same fantasy, the same ideal outcome.
    Yep. Indeed, many of them have moved their position since the Referendum to be even more hard brexit e.g. Before Ref: we'd be insane to leave the single market type; after Ref: WTO is the way folks etc etc
    Somebody downthread was referring to Chequers as a "soft Brexit". Talk about moving the Overton window.
  • glw said:

    Looks like No10 and some key cabinet members have called the leavers bluff to actually have a plan.

    So far the Boris and JRM camp don't seem to have an answer at all.

    Because they don't. They never had one. In their fantasies this was going to be easy. Turns out it is all but impossible.
    What's May's plan if the EU says no? May should listen to Nick Boles, we really might need that Plan B in a few weeks time, and his idea is a good as any I've heard from either of the main Remainers or Leavers.
    I do not think it will come down to a no as that will end negotiations. It will be a deal in the end but then TM will have to either recommend or reject it
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,752
    edited September 2018

    If it's wearing an EU-starred collar, I'm thinking it ain't a Jacob Rees-Mogg.....
    No, I mean the one at bottom-left!
    Hilary Benn?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    A real choice Mr Corbyn apologist? Are you having a laugh? The choice the country has is between an incompetent Tory party with a highly mediocre leader that is being slowly throttled by brexit fanatics, and a labour party led by a racist anti-Semite who got 2 Es at A-level who wants Britain to follow Venezuela down the economic plughole.

    This is choice, but it is of two varying degrees of self harm. It is the choice of Bedlam

    Getting 2 Es at A level in 1967 would certainly be the equivalent of 2Cs today given that 30% of pupils sitting the exam faile to reach the lowest Pass grade at that time. Nowadays a mere 2.5% fail to achieve at least an E grade. Academically Corbyn is more qualified than John Major and James Callaghan.
    Major passed tough banking exams, Callaghan the Oxford Certificate and civil service exams
    ..and Major and Callaghan did not go to one of the top Grammar schools in the country and previously a fee paying prep school. Corbyn really is a dullard
    How many O levels did Major fail?
    In the 1950s & 1960s those who had an A level were in the the top 10% - 15% of their cohorts.Most people fail to understand how the system of assessment has changed over time - and then there is rampant grade inflation on top of that.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    edited September 2018
    glw said:

    Looks like No10 and some key cabinet members have called the leavers bluff to actually have a plan.

    So far the Boris and JRM camp don't seem to have an answer at all.

    Because they don't. They never had one. In their fantasies this was going to be easy. Turns out it is all but impossible.
    What's May's plan if the EU says no? May should listen to Nick Boles, we really might need that Plan B in a few weeks time, and his idea is a good as any I've heard from either of the main Remainers or Leavers.
    Most likely she agrees a transition period and we stay in the single market and customs union after the Brexit date next March.

    May can keep that going for a year or two but if we have not left the single market and customs union with a FTA in place by the next general election Boris may well topple her
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,301

    Scott_P said:

    Alastair Cook gone...

    Bloody hell, I thought, where are we playing this morning...
    My immediate thought, too, give his recent form...

    I think it a good decision. He'll have far more regretting his absence than those saying 'about time too' - which wouldn't have been the case if he'd played on for a year or so, which was entirely possible.

    And it forces the selectors to get on with finding a replacement, however painful that process is likely to be.
  • HYUFD said:

    glw said:

    Looks like No10 and some key cabinet members have called the leavers bluff to actually have a plan.

    So far the Boris and JRM camp don't seem to have an answer at all.

    Because they don't. They never had one. In their fantasies this was going to be easy. Turns out it is all but impossible.
    What's May's plan if the EU says no? May should listen to Nick Boles, we really might need that Plan B in a few weeks time, and his idea is a good as any I've heard from either of the main Remainers or Leavers.
    Most likely she agrees a transition period and we stay in the single market and customs union after the Brexit date next March.

    May can keep that going for a year or two but if we have not left the single market and customs union with a FTA in place by the next general election Boris may well topple her
    The only thing Boris will topple is himself

  • Sajid is becoming more polished and makes Boris just look like a clown, which in many eyes he is

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC6YPQY0_28
  • No Deal Brexit might actually boost GDP in short term!!!


    ... because of all the stockpiling by consumers and business.


    No Deal Revisited report:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/nodeal-brexit-recession-project-fear-jonathan-portes-a8520266.html
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    Cook peaked in 2011, averaging just under 78.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    As far as his leadership ambitions go, Johnson’s maths problem could be fatal. There are enough MPs to dump Chequers, but are there enough to oust May and instal him? With every hurdle he passes, the number he needs to meet gets bigger, and the chances of him doing so get smaller.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/09/theresa-may-has-numbers-problem-brexit-boris-johnson-s-bigger

    Perhaps his hope is that if Chequers was voted down, she'd step down.

    More likely he's expecting the party to chuck her after March, and this is all just positioning.
    I believe that (quite understandably) May loathes Boris with a passion and, more to the point, thinks he would be an unmitigated disaster to the country. She won't do anything that will make his path to PM easier, quite the opposite in fact.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Looks like No10 and some key cabinet members have called the leavers bluff to actually have a plan.

    So far the Boris and JRM camp don't seem to have an answer at all.

    Because they don't. They never had one. In their fantasies this was going to be easy. Turns out it is all but impossible.
    Worse, the Brexiteers not only do not have a plan, they do not even agree on the same fantasy, the same ideal outcome.
    Yep. Indeed, many of them have moved their position since the Referendum to be even more hard brexit e.g. Before Ref: we'd be insane to leave the single market type; after Ref: WTO is the way folks etc etc
    It is always easier to be against something than it is to present a well-thought out plan for the future.

    Ironically, the Brexiteers in their raging against an EU utopia they dislike are being very utopian in their desire to be free while having no idea of the practicalities. It is the allegedly utopian Europeans who are focusing on the practicalities. This will not end well until the British start being a damn sight more pragmatic and practical about what is realistically possible.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    A real choice Mr Corbyn apologist? Are you having a laugh? The choice the country has is between an incompetent Tory party with a highly mediocre leader that is being slowly throttled by brexit fanatics, and a labour party led by a racist anti-Semite who got 2 Es at A-level who wants Britain to follow Venezuela down the economic plughole.

    This is choice, but it is of two varying degrees of self harm. It is the choice of Bedlam

    Getting 2 Es at A level in 1967 would certainly be the equivalent of 2Cs today given that 30% of pupils sitting the exam faile to reach the lowest Pass grade at that time. Nowadays a mere 2.5% fail to achieve at least an E grade. Academically Corbyn is more qualified than John Major and James Callaghan.
    Major passed tough banking exams, Callaghan the Oxford Certificate and civil service exams
    ..and Major and Callaghan did not go to one of the top Grammar schools in the country and previously a fee paying prep school. Corbyn really is a dullard
    How many O levels did Major fail?
    In the 1950s & 1960s those who had an A level were in the the top 10% - 15% of their cohorts.Most people fail to understand how the system of assessment has changed over time - and then there is rampant grade inflation on top of that.
    yes but dont forget all those old people are stupid
  • Labour will announce the results of NEC (National Executive Committee) and NPF (National Policy Forum) elections (CLPs section) today

  • Sajid is becoming more polished and makes Boris just look like a clown, which in many eyes he is

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC6YPQY0_28
    That is so funny
  • If it's wearing an EU-starred collar, I'm thinking it ain't a Jacob Rees-Mogg.....
    No, I mean the one at bottom-left!
    Hilary Benn?
    Not sure why Benn and Blair are in red colours.

    They are Tory running dog scum etc etc aren't they?
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    If it's wearing an EU-starred collar, I'm thinking it ain't a Jacob Rees-Mogg.....
    No, I mean the one at bottom-left!
    Hilary Benn?

    I assumed it was supposed to be John McDonnell, but it's not a very good caricature.
  • Anazina said:

    As far as his leadership ambitions go, Johnson’s maths problem could be fatal. There are enough MPs to dump Chequers, but are there enough to oust May and instal him? With every hurdle he passes, the number he needs to meet gets bigger, and the chances of him doing so get smaller.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/09/theresa-may-has-numbers-problem-brexit-boris-johnson-s-bigger

    Perhaps his hope is that if Chequers was voted down, she'd step down.

    More likely he's expecting the party to chuck her after March, and this is all just positioning.
    I believe that (quite understandably) May loathes Boris with a passion and, more to the point, thinks he would be an unmitigated disaster to the country. She won't do anything that will make his path to PM easier, quite the opposite in fact.
    She will do all in her power to keep him away from power
  • glwglw Posts: 9,916

    glw said:

    Looks like No10 and some key cabinet members have called the leavers bluff to actually have a plan.

    So far the Boris and JRM camp don't seem to have an answer at all.

    Because they don't. They never had one. In their fantasies this was going to be easy. Turns out it is all but impossible.
    What's May's plan if the EU says no? May should listen to Nick Boles, we really might need that Plan B in a few weeks time, and his idea is a good as any I've heard from either of the main Remainers or Leavers.
    I do not think it will come down to a no as that will end negotiations. It will be a deal in the end but then TM will have to either recommend or reject it
    I'd like to think you are correct, but May's red lines and Barnier's "Non" don't seem to leave much room for manoeuvre. Parking the UK in the EEA and negotiating a deal at our own pace looks like a much better way to go that crashing out.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    hey people believe Bono so anythings possible
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,301
    A mark of how undetermined the Democratic choice for presidential nominee is; John Kerry is not ruling himself out...
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/john-f-kerry-doesnt-rule-out-a-bid-for-president-in-2020/2018/09/02/603cbaec-aec8-11e8-a20b-5f4f84429666_story.html

    I've already made decent money on this market backing and laying Biden.
    Time to have another look fro interesting odds, perhaps.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    HYUFD said:

    glw said:

    Looks like No10 and some key cabinet members have called the leavers bluff to actually have a plan.

    So far the Boris and JRM camp don't seem to have an answer at all.

    Because they don't. They never had one. In their fantasies this was going to be easy. Turns out it is all but impossible.
    What's May's plan if the EU says no? May should listen to Nick Boles, we really might need that Plan B in a few weeks time, and his idea is a good as any I've heard from either of the main Remainers or Leavers.
    Most likely she agrees a transition period and we stay in the single market and customs union after the Brexit date next March.

    May can keep that going for a year or two but if we have not left the single market and customs union with a FTA in place by the next general election Boris may well topple her
    The chances of getting an FTA agreed by 2022 are pretty low. Didn’t someone do an analysis of how long it takes to reach free trade agreements and the average is 8 years?

  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    Anazina said:

    As far as his leadership ambitions go, Johnson’s maths problem could be fatal. There are enough MPs to dump Chequers, but are there enough to oust May and instal him? With every hurdle he passes, the number he needs to meet gets bigger, and the chances of him doing so get smaller.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/09/theresa-may-has-numbers-problem-brexit-boris-johnson-s-bigger

    Perhaps his hope is that if Chequers was voted down, she'd step down.

    More likely he's expecting the party to chuck her after March, and this is all just positioning.
    I believe that (quite understandably) May loathes Boris with a passion and, more to the point, thinks he would be an unmitigated disaster to the country. She won't do anything that will make his path to PM easier, quite the opposite in fact.
    She will do all in her power to keep him away from power
    We're talking about the woman who made him Foreign Secretary, right?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,504

    Anazina said:

    As far as his leadership ambitions go, Johnson’s maths problem could be fatal. There are enough MPs to dump Chequers, but are there enough to oust May and instal him? With every hurdle he passes, the number he needs to meet gets bigger, and the chances of him doing so get smaller.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/09/theresa-may-has-numbers-problem-brexit-boris-johnson-s-bigger

    Perhaps his hope is that if Chequers was voted down, she'd step down.

    More likely he's expecting the party to chuck her after March, and this is all just positioning.
    I believe that (quite understandably) May loathes Boris with a passion and, more to the point, thinks he would be an unmitigated disaster to the country. She won't do anything that will make his path to PM easier, quite the opposite in fact.
    She will do all in her power to keep him away from power
    We're talking about the woman who made him Foreign Secretary, right?
    Give him enough rope.....

    Mind, this is the nation’s reputation abroad she was risking!
  • glw said:

    glw said:

    Looks like No10 and some key cabinet members have called the leavers bluff to actually have a plan.

    So far the Boris and JRM camp don't seem to have an answer at all.

    Because they don't. They never had one. In their fantasies this was going to be easy. Turns out it is all but impossible.
    What's May's plan if the EU says no? May should listen to Nick Boles, we really might need that Plan B in a few weeks time, and his idea is a good as any I've heard from either of the main Remainers or Leavers.
    I do not think it will come down to a no as that will end negotiations. It will be a deal in the end but then TM will have to either recommend or reject it
    I'd like to think you are correct, but May's red lines and Barnier's "Non" don't seem to leave much room for manoeuvre. Parking the UK in the EEA and negotiating a deal at our own pace looks like a much better way to go that crashing out.
    I would be perfectly happy with that but I do have trust in TM to do the right thing. Indeed these last few weeks have shown she is the only grown up in the room
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,565
    Been away a while. Moving house mostly (grrr to SSE who still haven't sorted out our broadband) and a week away on the Isle of Wight.

    Back to it today, and we're bickering over Brexit, Boris is saying anything to get noticed no matter who it hurts, Corbyn's still Corbyn and Lewis Hamilton and Man City keep winning stuff.

    Haven't missed much then?
  • For once Williamson has a real point:

    https://twitter.com/DerbyChrisW/status/1036580574780174336

    What a disgusting mess the DWP is.
  • Anazina said:

    As far as his leadership ambitions go, Johnson’s maths problem could be fatal. There are enough MPs to dump Chequers, but are there enough to oust May and instal him? With every hurdle he passes, the number he needs to meet gets bigger, and the chances of him doing so get smaller.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/09/theresa-may-has-numbers-problem-brexit-boris-johnson-s-bigger

    Perhaps his hope is that if Chequers was voted down, she'd step down.

    More likely he's expecting the party to chuck her after March, and this is all just positioning.
    I believe that (quite understandably) May loathes Boris with a passion and, more to the point, thinks he would be an unmitigated disaster to the country. She won't do anything that will make his path to PM easier, quite the opposite in fact.
    She will do all in her power to keep him away from power
    We're talking about the woman who made him Foreign Secretary, right?
    Perfect appointment as the leading Brexiteer who did 'diddly squat' and flounced out demonstrating his inability to be a serious politician.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    Anazina said:

    As far as his leadership ambitions go, Johnson’s maths problem could be fatal. There are enough MPs to dump Chequers, but are there enough to oust May and instal him? With every hurdle he passes, the number he needs to meet gets bigger, and the chances of him doing so get smaller.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/09/theresa-may-has-numbers-problem-brexit-boris-johnson-s-bigger

    Perhaps his hope is that if Chequers was voted down, she'd step down.

    More likely he's expecting the party to chuck her after March, and this is all just positioning.
    I believe that (quite understandably) May loathes Boris with a passion and, more to the point, thinks he would be an unmitigated disaster to the country. She won't do anything that will make his path to PM easier, quite the opposite in fact.
    She will do all in her power to keep him away from power
    We're talking about the woman who made him Foreign Secretary, right?
    A move of brilliance that has almost done the necessary.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    Not for Protestants who voted Leave but maybe for Catholics who voted Remain in the event of Brexit, without Brexit better for Unionists
  • Nigelb said:

    A mark of how undetermined the Democratic choice for presidential nominee is; John Kerry is not ruling himself out...
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/john-f-kerry-doesnt-rule-out-a-bid-for-president-in-2020/2018/09/02/603cbaec-aec8-11e8-a20b-5f4f84429666_story.html

    I've already made decent money on this market backing and laying Biden.
    Time to have another look fro interesting odds, perhaps.

    Not even on the BF book for Dem candidate.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    glw said:

    Looks like No10 and some key cabinet members have called the leavers bluff to actually have a plan.

    So far the Boris and JRM camp don't seem to have an answer at all.

    Because they don't. They never had one. In their fantasies this was going to be easy. Turns out it is all but impossible.
    What's May's plan if the EU says no? May should listen to Nick Boles, we really might need that Plan B in a few weeks time, and his idea is a good as any I've heard from either of the main Remainers or Leavers.
    Most likely she agrees a transition period and we stay in the single market and customs union after the Brexit date next March.

    May can keep that going for a year or two but if we have not left the single market and customs union with a FTA in place by the next general election Boris may well topple her
    The chances of getting an FTA agreed by 2022 are pretty low. Didn’t someone do an analysis of how long it takes to reach free trade agreements and the average is 8 years?

    Yes, so the likelihood is Boris will have toppled May by 2022
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    edited September 2018
    Nigelb said:

    A mark of how undetermined the Democratic choice for presidential nominee is; John Kerry is not ruling himself out...
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/john-f-kerry-doesnt-rule-out-a-bid-for-president-in-2020/2018/09/02/603cbaec-aec8-11e8-a20b-5f4f84429666_story.html

    I've already made decent money on this market backing and laying Biden.
    Time to have another look fro interesting odds, perhaps.

    Trump would love to face Kerry, Hillary without the charisma and the dullest most elitist candidate along with Romney who inspired virtually nobody for all their legislative and executive experience
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    HYUFD said:

    Not for Protestants who voted Leave but maybe for Catholics who voted Remain in the event of Brexit, without Brexit better for Unionists
    as I said something for everyone

    as ever the biggest barrier to a UI is SF and the biggest momentum for a UI is the DUP.
    Still the Irexit party would suddenly jump to 16% in the Dail, should be fun.
  • HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    A mark of how undetermined the Democratic choice for presidential nominee is; John Kerry is not ruling himself out...
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/john-f-kerry-doesnt-rule-out-a-bid-for-president-in-2020/2018/09/02/603cbaec-aec8-11e8-a20b-5f4f84429666_story.html

    I've already made decent money on this market backing and laying Biden.
    Time to have another look fro interesting odds, perhaps.

    Trump would love to face Kerry, Hillary without the charisma and the dullest most elitist candidate along with Romney who inspired virtually nobody for all their legislative and executive experience
    And who lost Ohio.

    They need that one back imho.
  • Labour will announce the results of NEC (National Executive Committee) and NPF (National Policy Forum) elections (CLPs section) today

    Clean sweep by #JC9 according to the Skwawbox.
  • HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    glw said:

    Looks like No10 and some key cabinet members have called the leavers bluff to actually have a plan.

    So far the Boris and JRM camp don't seem to have an answer at all.

    Because they don't. They never had one. In their fantasies this was going to be easy. Turns out it is all but impossible.
    What's May's plan if the EU says no? May should listen to Nick Boles, we really might need that Plan B in a few weeks time, and his idea is a good as any I've heard from either of the main Remainers or Leavers.
    Most likely she agrees a transition period and we stay in the single market and customs union after the Brexit date next March.

    May can keep that going for a year or two but if we have not left the single market and customs union with a FTA in place by the next general election Boris may well topple her
    The chances of getting an FTA agreed by 2022 are pretty low. Didn’t someone do an analysis of how long it takes to reach free trade agreements and the average is 8 years?

    Yes, so the likelihood is Boris will have toppled May by 2022
    I did not even need to look who had written that.
  • Been sent for re-education, obv. They always see the errors of their ways.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Thornberry doesn't get it

    Neither does Corbyn

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1036584008551936006
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Dura_Ace said:

    It should take us a lot less than 20 years to get our own Economic Commonwealth up and running.....

    Which countries are going to be in it?
    Think of all the tax havens
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,692
    Labour NEC results

    #JC9 or 8 out of 9 with Ann Black

    I will go for the former but wouldnt be surprised with the latter
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    edited September 2018

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    A mark of how undetermined the Democratic choice for presidential nominee is; John Kerry is not ruling himself out...
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/john-f-kerry-doesnt-rule-out-a-bid-for-president-in-2020/2018/09/02/603cbaec-aec8-11e8-a20b-5f4f84429666_story.html

    I've already made decent money on this market backing and laying Biden.
    Time to have another look fro interesting odds, perhaps.

    Trump would love to face Kerry, Hillary without the charisma and the dullest most elitist candidate along with Romney who inspired virtually nobody for all their legislative and executive experience
    And who lost Ohio.

    They need that one back imho.
    He lost Florida too and the popular vote unlike Hillary and Gore, he was the worst Democratic candidate since Dukakis
  • Scott_P said:

    Thornberry doesn't get it

    Neither does Corbyn

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1036584008551936006
    Well of course he doesn't get it. He hasn't a clue what's going on, and the stuff he does understand he fully supports.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220

    Labour NEC results

    #JC9 or 8 out of 9 with Ann Black

    I will go for the former but wouldnt be surprised with the latter

    Sounds like it the full JC9.
  • Scott_P said:
    Labour might as well rename themselves the Maomentum Party.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Chris Evans to leave R2. Wonder if he is another that wouldn't take a pay cut?

    Another uselesss overpaid tw**, good riddance. BBC certainly needs a clearout of overpaid under talented staff. Time they were made to compete for their cushy numbers.
    The one thing you can say about Chris Evans is that he doesn't appear on TV channels run for the propaganda purposes of a foreign despot like a certain ex-leader of the SNP. As I said the other day, the SNP has a pretty nasty history of providing succour to fascist regimes, so I suppose you could say that Salmond is being consistent in that particular tradition.
    Big leap there from an unfunny DJ to politics. You obviously haev a grudge against SNP and Salmond, and also a bit loopy on your history. Your imaginary "succour to fascist regimes" where reality is the Tories and their propaganda sheet the Daly Heil were right in among it is ignored. Go read your hsitory books and get real.
    I think you need to read your history and get honest about what nationalism actually means , but then maybe you are not worried about Salmond working for RT and the SNP's one time support for the Axis powers. The clue is in the name.
    Oh Dear , xenophobic Little Englander loses the plot.
  • Been sent for re-education, obv. They always see the errors of their ways.
    I thought we hadn't seen her over the summer.
  • Been sent for re-education, obv. They always see the errors of their ways.
    I thought we hadn't seen her over the summer.
    I thought she was probably too busy waving her England flag along with the rest of England over the footy.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    A real choice Mr Corbyn apologist? Are you having a laugh? The choice the country has is between an incompetent Tory party with a highly mediocre leader that is being slowly throttled by brexit fanatics, and a labour party led by a racist anti-Semite who got 2 Es at A-level who wants Britain to follow Venezuela down the economic plughole.

    This is choice, but it is of two varying degrees of self harm. It is the choice of Bedlam

    Getting 2 Es at A level in 1967 would certainly be the equivalent of 2Cs today given that 30% of pupils sitting the exam faile to reach the lowest Pass grade at that time. Nowadays a mere 2.5% fail to achieve at least an E grade. Academically Corbyn is more qualified than John Major and James Callaghan.
    Major passed tough banking exams, Callaghan the Oxford Certificate and civil service exams
    ..and Major and Callaghan did not go to one of the top Grammar schools in the country and previously a fee paying prep school. Corbyn really is a dullard
    How many O levels did Major fail?
    In the 1950s & 1960s those who had an A level were in the the top 10% - 15% of their cohorts.Most people fail to understand how the system of assessment has changed over time - and then there is rampant grade inflation on top of that.
    I got my 2A's and a B in 1972 and E's were considered pretty crap then. Face it Corbyn is thick as they come and it shows.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,692
    Pulpstar said:

    Labour NEC results

    #JC9 or 8 out of 9 with Ann Black

    I will go for the former but wouldnt be surprised with the latter

    Sounds like it the full JC9.
    I think most had voted when the Willsman clip was released.
  • felix said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    A real choice Mr Corbyn apologist? Are you having a laugh? The choice the country has is between an incompetent Tory party with a highly mediocre leader that is being slowly throttled by brexit fanatics, and a labour party led by a racist anti-Semite who got 2 Es at A-level who wants Britain to follow Venezuela down the economic plughole.

    This is choice, but it is of two varying degrees of self harm. It is the choice of Bedlam

    Getting 2 Es at A level in 1967 would certainly be the equivalent of 2Cs today given that 30% of pupils sitting the exam faile to reach the lowest Pass grade at that time. Nowadays a mere 2.5% fail to achieve at least an E grade. Academically Corbyn is more qualified than John Major and James Callaghan.
    Major passed tough banking exams, Callaghan the Oxford Certificate and civil service exams
    ..and Major and Callaghan did not go to one of the top Grammar schools in the country and previously a fee paying prep school. Corbyn really is a dullard
    How many O levels did Major fail?
    In the 1950s & 1960s those who had an A level were in the the top 10% - 15% of their cohorts.Most people fail to understand how the system of assessment has changed over time - and then there is rampant grade inflation on top of that.
    I got my 2A's and a B in 1972 and E's were considered pretty crap then. Face it Corbyn is thick as they come and it shows.
    Let’s also not forget that it isn’t like jezza was at some sink comp. he was at one of the best state schools in the country.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    Anazina said:

    As far as his leadership ambitions go, Johnson’s maths problem could be fatal. There are enough MPs to dump Chequers, but are there enough to oust May and instal him? With every hurdle he passes, the number he needs to meet gets bigger, and the chances of him doing so get smaller.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/09/theresa-may-has-numbers-problem-brexit-boris-johnson-s-bigger

    Perhaps his hope is that if Chequers was voted down, she'd step down.

    More likely he's expecting the party to chuck her after March, and this is all just positioning.
    I believe that (quite understandably) May loathes Boris with a passion and, more to the point, thinks he would be an unmitigated disaster to the country. She won't do anything that will make his path to PM easier, quite the opposite in fact.
    She will do all in her power to keep him away from power
    We're talking about the woman who made him Foreign Secretary, right?
    She gave him rope and he obligingly trashed his own reputation.
  • glw said:

    Looks like No10 and some key cabinet members have called the leavers bluff to actually have a plan.

    So far the Boris and JRM camp don't seem to have an answer at all.

    Because they don't. They never had one. In their fantasies this was going to be easy. Turns out it is all but impossible.
    What's May's plan if the EU says no? May should listen to Nick Boles, we really might need that Plan B in a few weeks time, and his idea is a good as any I've heard from either of the main Remainers or Leavers.
    They have already said no. Many times.
  • Scott_P said:
    Labour might as well rename themselves the Maomentum Party.
    That would be good. Then real Labour people could have the "Labour' brand back.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    In the world of Scottish manufacturing there are already gains and losses becoming evident from the political impasse. The pound has dropped and skilled wages in the UK are well below the continent. The only trouble is that finding skilled workers is becoming harder. Students are available and lots of good ones desperate to find a job with a future. Retail and coffee shops not seen as the future.

    New investment in plant in the UK is virtually non existent while people wait. Our industry is operating at close to 100% capacity and no-one adding new capacity.

    Tax authorities very focused on finding money. They phone ahead of time to check we paying our monthly taxes on time.

    The NHS is still short of money to pay suppliers and certain hospitals credit scores are junk grade. Many senior staff in 50s clock watching until they can get their pension and move on. Played golf with one on Saturday and the talk was all about pensions the same with my brother the week before who is dean of surgery at major SE England hospital. Morale appears really low.

    It is semi ironic that the major thrust of the Scottish Tory campaign last Scottish election was that the SNP were too focused on independence rather than doing what was good for Scotland. This campaign was a big success


    LOL< is that the invisible 13 Tories, or the racist sectarian ones that are not chastised but encouraged by the Fat Controller, by ignoring misdeamours, who is too busy doing book signings and looking for Westminster vacancies.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,301



    There is 'failure' and there is absolute politics-induced disaster.

    I hope you won't take it as a 'smear' that Corbyn and leftists have shown a great deal of fondness for the left-wing Venezuelan government as enacted by Chavez and Maduro.

    Today comes the news that their broken policies and corruption has apparently led 20% of Venezuelans to leave the country (*). This in turn causes immense problems for the surrounding countries that just might lead to war.

    Our system has problems, and could certainly be better. But for the vast majority of us, it works.

    If you want 'true' failure, look at the governments and people Corbyn admires.

    (*) Figures reported from BBC World Service.
    Venezuela boomed and crashed mostly based on the oil price, any journalist writing about in reference to Britain's economy and it happening here has no understanding of economics. People use it to make a political point rather than any serious economic one.
    That is absolute, 100% rubbish.

    The disaster facing Venezuela is totally down to the actions of its government, which is why no other state that relies on fossil fuels has faced anywhere near the same drama, even when the prices plunged.

    It should be a rich country. The policies so admired by Corbyn has created a massive humanitarian crisis.
    Trashy right wing newspaper headlines from the likes of the Sun and the Daily Mail do not make for good economic analysis. Nice cheap political point scoring but best kept out of serious conversation.

    Anyone claiming Corbyn is somehow going to do a Venezuela here has nothing more than an incredibly basic knowledge of economics and can safely be ignored on the topic.

    Lots of countries have been negatively affected by fossil fuels dropping in price, part of Venezuela's problem is that much of its oil is only viable (or worth) extracting and processing when the oil price is sufficiently high, which it was when the country was doing well and isn't now the country isn't doing well. Pure coincidence though, absolute 100% rubbish as you say, why would a country so dependent on a resource for its economy be affected by a change in its price...
    I don't think Venezuela's cost of production is that high - though the figures have been distorted in the last couple of years by a massive drop in production (around 50%), thanks largely to chronic underinvestment.
    Here's cost per country from 2016:
    http://graphics.wsj.com/oil-barrel-breakdown/

    When your only management strategy is to nationalise and tax (not that either are a problem with good management), it's hardly surprising that productive assets deteriorate.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    hey people believe Bono so anythings possible
    LOL
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited September 2018

    Looks like No10 and some key cabinet members have called the leavers bluff to actually have a plan.

    So far the Boris and JRM camp don't seem to have an answer at all.

    Isn't it a Canadian style deal (the one David Davis and his department were working on up to Theresa's ambush on 6th July?)
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    For once Williamson has a real point:

    https://twitter.com/DerbyChrisW/status/1036580574780174336

    What a disgusting mess the DWP is.

    yes, but there is some untruths or not really truths here.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Easy to forget now, but Thatcher was radical.

    Indeed so, probably the last great British statesman. Someone who believed in something and effected change for the good, even if it was unpopular with many at the time.

    Where are any politicians today offering a positive vision of the future and proposing serious solutions to today’s problems?
    We should get RCS to make a video: Whatever Happened to Sterling M3? We never hear about the money supply these days. #MrsThatchersLegacy
    Because politicians have been printing money and they don’t want us to know
    And yet inflation has not taken off. It is ironic that Mrs Thatcher is one of our most influential prime ministers despite being wrong on almost everything. Though you could say the same in spades about Churchill.
    Asset price inflation has

    Consumer price inflation has benefited from the internet and from globalisation

    (As for @Topping earlier point that free capitalism is working just fine it isn’t. The gains are being hoarded and the costs are being shared. The concept is good but companies and individuals need to relearn their responsibilities and duties as well as the benefits. If it doesn’t change to work for more people there will be revolution. It’s this that explains, in my view, why Corbyn is doing so well despite all his baggage)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,257
    Yes, two and a half cheers for the boring managerial politician who places pragmatism over principle and is devoid of colour and personality. Authentic, charismatic, in touch with the people etc - politicians of that ilk are usually integrity-free chancers who are best kept well away from real power.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    GIN1138 said:

    Looks like No10 and some key cabinet members have called the leavers bluff to actually have a plan.

    So far the Boris and JRM camp don't seem to have an answer at all.

    Isn't it a Canadian style deal (the one David Davis and his department were working on up to Theresa's ambush on 6th July?)
    The evidence that DD was "working" on anything is scant at best.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    HYUFD said:

    Not for Protestants who voted Leave but maybe for Catholics who voted Remain in the event of Brexit, without Brexit better for Unionists
    as I said something for everyone

    as ever the biggest barrier to a UI is SF and the biggest momentum for a UI is the DUP.
    Still the Irexit party would suddenly jump to 16% in the Dail, should be fun.
    Lots of trouble ahead for certain, Tories are for the dustbin and alternative is worse, happy days.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    first you spend ages discrediting everything he says then you start tweeting him

    oh well......
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Easy to forget now, but Thatcher was radical.

    Indeed so, probably the last great British statesman. Someone who believed in something and effected change for the good, even if it was unpopular with many at the time.

    Where are any politicians today offering a positive vision of the future and proposing serious solutions to today’s problems?
    We should get RCS to make a video: Whatever Happened to Sterling M3? We never hear about the money supply these days. #MrsThatchersLegacy
    Because politicians have been printing money and they don’t want us to know
    And yet inflation has not taken off. It is ironic that Mrs Thatcher is one of our most influential prime ministers despite being wrong on almost everything. Though you could say the same in spades about Churchill.
    Asset price inflation has

    Consumer price inflation has benefited from the internet and from globalisation

    (As for @Topping earlier point that free capitalism is working just fine it isn’t. The gains are being hoarded and the costs are being shared. The concept is good but companies and individuals need to relearn their responsibilities and duties as well as the benefits. If it doesn’t change to work for more people there will be revolution. It’s this that explains, in my view, why Corbyn is doing so well despite all his baggage)
    +1
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/sep/02/more-loose-women-than-newsnight-bbc-launches-politics-show-for-digital-age

    If I am reading this correctly politicians will basically never have to face Andrew Neil anymore, as he will only be on once a week?

    Once too many, I could do without seeing his girning face.
    Your clearly a big fan.
    I think he’s a Unionist and beat up the SNP in an interview once...
    What?! I'm constantly being assured (mostly by Tories, right enough) that Andra is our foremost fair and balanced™ political interviewer, from whom all pols can expect rigorous impartiality.
    Yes, he is. But that doesn’t mean that passionate supporters of those who get beaten up will forgive him for it
  • Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Easy to forget now, but Thatcher was radical.

    Indeed so, probably the last great British statesman. Someone who believed in something and effected change for the good, even if it was unpopular with many at the time.

    Where are any politicians today offering a positive vision of the future and proposing serious solutions to today’s problems?
    We should get RCS to make a video: Whatever Happened to Sterling M3? We never hear about the money supply these days. #MrsThatchersLegacy
    Because politicians have been printing money and they don’t want us to know
    And yet inflation has not taken off. It is ironic that Mrs Thatcher is one of our most influential prime ministers despite being wrong on almost everything. Though you could say the same in spades about Churchill.
    Asset price inflation has

    Consumer price inflation has benefited from the internet and from globalisation

    (As for @Topping earlier point that free capitalism is working just fine it isn’t. The gains are being hoarded and the costs are being shared. The concept is good but companies and individuals need to relearn their responsibilities and duties as well as the benefits. If it doesn’t change to work for more people there will be revolution. It’s this that explains, in my view, why Corbyn is doing so well despite all his baggage)
    No leading politicians in the uk or us appear to have some good sensible proposals within the capitalist system to deal with both the current issue surrounding globalization and the forthcoming wave with Machine Learning that’s will hit lots of middle class professions.

    It is either keep calm and carry on or what we need is socialism (but do it right this time).
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293

    She still doesn't want him driving her home after a party then? :D
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    notme said:

    For once Williamson has a real point:

    https://twitter.com/DerbyChrisW/status/1036580574780174336

    What a disgusting mess the DWP is.

    yes, but there is some untruths or not really truths here.
    Let me add some more info to that:

    PIP and disability benefit are being used interchangeably. Red flag for those of us with a good news for untruths. Cancer sufferers who are receiving chemotherapy or radiotherapy are not even assessed and are automatically moved into the Support Group, an the same if your diagnosis is terminal. You dont have an assessment in these situations.

    As always there are sad situations, but i cant see how he would be declared 'fit to work', yet be terminally ill. He wouldnt even be assessed.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    malcolmg said:



    Lots of trouble ahead for certain, Tories are for the dustbin and alternative is worse, happy days.

    I used to think that Corbyn would campaign in poetry but govern in prose. I now think that the incoming Labour government will be extremely radical, disruptive and transformative on a scale that surpasses Atlee's program.
  • I'd put the Record's pie slicing abilities down to fuckwittedness, but with these boys you just never know.

    https://twitter.com/davieclegg/status/1036505718344613890
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    I'd put the Record's pie slicing abilities down to fuckwittedness, but with these boys you just never know.

    https://twitter.com/davieclegg/status/1036505718344613890

    They employ the same graphic designers as the Liberal Democrats.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Dura_Ace said:

    malcolmg said:



    Lots of trouble ahead for certain, Tories are for the dustbin and alternative is worse, happy days.

    I used to think that Corbyn would campaign in poetry but govern in prose. I now think that the incoming Labour government will be extremely radical, disruptive and transformative on a scale that surpasses Atlee's program.
    For sure it would be hard to make it much worse than it is at current , whole strategy for the country is based on the minority and to hell with the majority.
  • GIN1138 said:


    She still doesn't want him driving her home after a party then? :D
    I would suspect he has lost most of the limited goodwill he had with most conservative mps now
  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Chris Evans to leave R2. Wonder if he is another that wouldn't take a pay cut?

    Another uselesss overpaid tw**, good riddance. BBC certainly needs a clearout of overpaid under talented staff. Time they were made to compete for their cushy numbers.
    The one thing you can say about Chris Evans is that he doesn't appear on TV channels run for the propaganda purposes of a foreign despot like a certain ex-leader of the SNP. As I said the other day, the SNP has a pretty nasty history of providing succour to fascist regimes, so I suppose you could say that Salmond is being consistent in that particular tradition.
    Big leap there from an unfunny DJ to politics. You obviously haev a grudge against SNP and Salmond, and also a bit loopy on your history. Your imaginary "succour to fascist regimes" where reality is the Tories and their propaganda sheet the Daly Heil were right in among it is ignored. Go read your hsitory books and get real.
    I think you need to read your history and get honest about what nationalism actually means , but then maybe you are not worried about Salmond working for RT and the SNP's one time support for the Axis powers. The clue is in the name.
    Oh Dear , xenophobic Little Englander loses the plot.
    Oh dear, you perhaps ought to do your homework . Read some of my posts, Little Englander is an epithet that will not work with me. Little Englanders are much more aligned to your nasty creed. The SNP is just a load of UKIPers in kilts
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Dura_Ace said:

    malcolmg said:



    Lots of trouble ahead for certain, Tories are for the dustbin and alternative is worse, happy days.

    I used to think that Corbyn would campaign in poetry but govern in prose. I now think that the incoming Labour government will be extremely radical, disruptive and transformative on a scale that surpasses Atlee's program.
    Is that good?
  • Well this isn't prose and it sure isn't poetry.

    https://order-order.com/2018/09/03/corbyn-loses-temper-bbc/
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Anazina said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:

    Of the prominent Tory Leavers, Boris, Davis and Patel are out of government. Gove remains.

    Two quit and the third fired for incompetence.

    These are the giant brains you think would deliver Utopia?
    No.

    But they beat Remain.

    Oh, and a bus. Mustn't forget the bus.
    And the poster. Let's not forget the poster.
    Yep, that too.

    So, 'giant brains' (sic) a bus and a dishonest poster beat Remain.

    And they still don't know why.....

    Probably easier just blaming the voters.....
    If you really believed this, why didn't you advance this analysis of the campaign at the time? Your neobrexiteer hindsight is 20/20.
    the general idea of a elections is you dont know the result until the vote is counted.

    lol
    Laughing at your own jokes is rather infra dig
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    I get the feeling that the second referendum idea is gathering momentum.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    malcolmg said:



    Lots of trouble ahead for certain, Tories are for the dustbin and alternative is worse, happy days.

    I used to think that Corbyn would campaign in poetry but govern in prose. I now think that the incoming Labour government will be extremely radical, disruptive and transformative on a scale that surpasses Atlee's program.
    Is that good?
    Hard brexit, hard Corbyn.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,692
    Frank Field says he will not call a By-Election after taking a few days to listen to his constituents. From that I infer that he realises he would lose.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    Christmas tree shortage ahoy

    weather killed off saplings
  • Anazina said:

    I'd put the Record's pie slicing abilities down to fuckwittedness, but with these boys you just never know.

    https://twitter.com/davieclegg/status/1036505718344613890

    They employ the same graphic designers as the Liberal Democrats Sunil.
    :lol:
    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/876894066478329857
This discussion has been closed.