Watching the Bodyguard on BBC1 tonight any similarities between the Home Secretary and Theresa May are I assume purely coincidental
I found it a bit of a slow start. Though helped by Madden being easy on the eye. Hopefully it will ramp up a gear tomorrow - it was missing that intense Mercurio dialogue in ep 1
Gradual setting of the scene but I thought the first 20 minutes were quite dramatic
Yes - but when you know he is the lead character for the series, it was clear that he was never in danger
The image surely is the property of a photo-journalist and is subject to copyright, no?
How would you doctor the image anyway? Photoshop is jolly clever but it seems to me extremely unlikely that women, old men etc have been edited out of that.
It seems likely to me that the image is the property of some right wing news site (Breitbart ?), which is how UKIP may have gotten permission to use it in a poster in the first place.
I could easily believe that, whilst not exactly doctored, the image may have been carefully chosen and cropped to emphasise the maleness of the migrants.
That is like saying: I accept the moon landings were not faked, but while not exactly doctored, the NASA photographs were carefully chosen and cropped to emphasise the presence of astronauts on the lunar surface.
That’s not the one I was thinking of: I thought you ment the one showing the queue of people trying to get in. After all this one is at worst an exageration. “Turkey is applying to join the EU” would have been completely true at the time.
It's not really visible on that photo but it also shows an open door with a queue of footprints trekking towards it.
This the one I was thinking of.
As I said above, I’m not sure how anyone can defend it.
Is Turkey explicitly mentioned on the Breaking Point poster? Ta in advance.
The 'breaking point' poster doesn't mention Turkey and the Turkey poster doesn't have a doctored photo (just doctored facts) but both represent disgusting lies that right-minded Leavers ought to be embarrassed at.
There is no doubt these and other lies such as £350m per week extra for the NHS swayed the outcome; whether Leave would have won without lying has to be in doubt.
Nope. What was pivotal to the outcome was Blair's unforgivable refusal to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004.
Without that there would have been no UKIP surge and no pressure for an EU referendum in the first place
And the then Govt’s blatant weasling out of a referendum on Constitution/Lisbon ( pick your name - same difference).
Want a lie folks: You can have a referendum. Just vote for us. Oh we won. Great. Oh crap the French and the Dutch said no, so we can’t trust you lot to vote the right way. So you can’t have a vote. So there. That’s that then, no way back now eh!
Are the idiots still trying to reconcile the two concepts?
Turkey is joining the EU was a scaremongering lie aimed at those racists amongst us.
Cameron supporting Turkey joining the EU was saying he wanted then to become a country that could join the EU which it was and is miles away from.
A Turkey that could join the EU is a very different country to the one that exists right now.
Why do people find this difficult to understand?
How different would it have been? I suspect the GDP/capita gap would have been similar and that migration would have been almost entirely in one direction, as it was with the eastern european countries.
It has fulfilled is it one out of 25-odd necessary criteria. That would be pretty different.
None of the 25-odd criteria would close the GDP/capita gap. None of the 25-odd criteria would stop the drain of migration being one directional only.
As I just said, so the fuck what? If it doesn't fulfil the criteria it doesn't join.
Are you whining about a second if not third derivative?
The scaremongering was about migration from Turkey, and I think one of the biggest drivers of migration is seeking a better standard of living. You're claiming it would be a different country, but it might not be different in the areas that matter.
What the fuck are you talking about? The scaremongering was about Turkey joining the EU. Look at the posters. The clue is there.
Yes which was the official policy of our government and the EU - that once Turkey fulfilled the criteria it would be allowed to join.
Watching the Bodyguard on BBC1 tonight any similarities between the Home Secretary and Theresa May are I assume purely coincidental
I found it a bit of a slow start. Though helped by Madden being easy on the eye. Hopefully it will ramp up a gear tomorrow - it was missing that intense Mercurio dialogue in ep 1
Gradual setting of the scene but I thought the first 20 minutes were quite dramatic
Very dramatic my mother was over quietest 20 mins from her since Xmas 2012 when she passed out on the sherry trifle
Watching the Bodyguard on BBC1 tonight any similarities between the Home Secretary and Theresa May are I assume purely coincidental
I found it a bit of a slow start. Though helped by Madden being easy on the eye. Hopefully it will ramp up a gear tomorrow - it was missing that intense Mercurio dialogue in ep 1
Gradual setting of the scene but I thought the first 20 minutes were quite dramatic
Yes - but when you know he is the lead character for the series, it was clear that he was never in danger
Though what would happen to the other characters in that scene was unkown
Watching the Bodyguard on BBC1 tonight any similarities between the Home Secretary and Theresa May are I assume purely coincidental
I found it a bit of a slow start. Though helped by Madden being easy on the eye. Hopefully it will ramp up a gear tomorrow - it was missing that intense Mercurio dialogue in ep 1
Gradual setting of the scene but I thought the first 20 minutes were quite dramatic
Very dramatic my mother was over quietest 20 mins from her since Xmas 2012 when she passed out on the sherry trifle
Yes you could hear a pin drop in our household too
That’s not the one I was thinking of: I thought you ment the one showing the queue of people trying to get in. After all this one is at worst an exageration. “Turkey is applying to join the EU” would have been completely true at the time.
It's not really visible on that photo but it also shows an open door with a queue of footprints trekking towards it.
This the one I was thinking of.
As I said above, I’m not sure how anyone can defend it.
Is Turkey explicitly mentioned on the Breaking Point poster? Ta in advance.
The 'breaking point' poster doesn't mention Turkey and the Turkey poster doesn't have a doctored photo (just doctored facts) but both represent disgusting lies that right-minded Leavers ought to be embarrassed at.
There is no doubt these and other lies such as £350m per week extra for the NHS swayed the outcome; whether Leave would have won without lying has to be in doubt.
Nope. What was pivotal to the outcome was Blair's unforgivable refusal to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004.
Without that there would have been no UKIP surge and no pressure for an EU referendum in the first place
And the then Govt’s blatant weasling out of a referendum on Constitution/Lisbon ( pick your name - same difference).
Want a lie folks: You can have a referendum. Just vote for us. Oh we won. Great. Oh crap the French and the Dutch said no, so we can’t trust you lot to vote the right way. So you can’t have a vote. So there. That’s that then, no way back now eh!
Brexit is at your door.
Yes if Blair and Brown want to find sone reasons for Brexit they just need to look at their record
Are the idiots still trying to reconcile the two concepts?
Turkey is joining the EU was a scaremongering lie aimed at those racists amongst us.
Cameron supporting Turkey joining the EU was saying he wanted then to become a country that could join the EU which it was and is miles away from.
A Turkey that could join the EU is a very different country to the one that exists right now.
Why do people find this difficult to understand?
How different would it have been? I suspect the GDP/capita gap would have been similar and that migration would have been almost entirely in one direction, as it was with the eastern european countries.
It has fulfilled is it one out of 25-odd necessary criteria. That would be pretty different.
None of the 25-odd criteria would close the GDP/capita gap. None of the 25-odd criteria would stop the drain of migration being one directional only.
As I just said, so the fuck what? If it doesn't fulfil the criteria it doesn't join.
Are you whining about a second if not third derivative?
The scaremongering was about migration from Turkey, and I think one of the biggest drivers of migration is seeking a better standard of living. You're claiming it would be a different country, but it might not be different in the areas that matter.
What the fuck are you talking about? The scaremongering was about Turkey joining the EU. Look at the posters. The clue is there.
They weren't playing on fears that the voting power of the UK's MEPs would be reduced, were they? It was about freedom of movement (the footsteps through that door might have been a bit of a clue)
Watching the Bodyguard on BBC1 tonight any similarities between the Home Secretary and Theresa May are I assume purely coincidental
I found it a bit of a slow start. Though helped by Madden being easy on the eye. Hopefully it will ramp up a gear tomorrow - it was missing that intense Mercurio dialogue in ep 1
Gradual setting of the scene but I thought the first 20 minutes were quite dramatic
Yes - but when you know he is the lead character for the series, it was clear that he was never in danger
Though what would happen to the other characters in that scene was unkown
True - I still enjoyed it. But I hope it develops from what was a relatively slow first ep
That’s not the one I was thinking of: I thought you ment the one showing the queue of people trying to get in. After all this one is at worst an exageration. “Turkey is applying to join the EU” would have been completely true at the time.
It's not really visible on that photo but it also shows an open door with a queue of footprints trekking towards it.
This the one I was thinking of.
As I said above, I’m not sure how anyone can defend it.
Is Turkey explicitly mentioned on the Breaking Point poster? Ta in advance.
The 'breaking point' poster doesn't mention Turkey and the Turkey poster doesn't have a doctored photo (just doctored facts) but both represent disgusting lies that right-minded Leavers ought to be embarrassed at.
There is no doubt these and other lies such as £350m per week extra for the NHS swayed the outcome; whether Leave would have won without lying has to be in doubt.
Nope. What was pivotal to the outcome was Blair's unforgivable refusal to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004.
Without that there would have been no UKIP surge and no pressure for an EU referendum in the first place
And the then Govt’s blatant weasling out of a referendum on Constitution/Lisbon ( pick your name - same difference).
Want a lie folks: You can have a referendum. Just vote for us. Oh we won. Great. Oh crap the French and the Dutch said no, so we can’t trust you lot to vote the right way. So you can’t have a vote. So there. That’s that then, no way back now eh!
Brexit is at your door.
Yes if Blair and Brown want to find sone reasons for Brexit they just need to look at their record
Yes, funny how Blair is all keen on referendums these days. Odd isn’t it?
I hope everyone has a pleasant nights rest, especially my youngest son, his partner and our two grandchildren who travelled to Tenby today for a week camping with friends
Are the idiots still trying to reconcile the two concepts?
Turkey is joining the EU was a scaremongering lie aimed at those racists amongst us.
Cameron supporting Turkey joining the EU was saying he wanted then to become a country that could join the EU which it was and is miles away from.
A Turkey that could join the EU is a very different country to the one that exists right now.
Why do people find this difficult to understand?
How different would it have been? I suspect the GDP/capita gap would have been similar and that migration would have been almost entirely in one direction, as it was with the eastern european countries.
It has fulfilled is it one out of 25-odd necessary criteria. That would be pretty different.
None of the 25-odd criteria would close the GDP/capita gap. None of the 25-odd criteria would stop the drain of migration being one directional only.
As I just said, so the fuck what? If it doesn't fulfil the criteria it doesn't join.
Are you whining about a second if not third derivative?
The scaremongering was about migration from Turkey, and I think one of the biggest drivers of migration is seeking a better standard of living. You're claiming it would be a different country, but it might not be different in the areas that matter.
What the fuck are you talking about? The scaremongering was about Turkey joining the EU. Look at the posters. The clue is there.
They weren't playing on fears that the voting power of the UK's MEPs would be reduced, were they? It was about freedom of movement (the footsteps through that door might have been a bit of a clue)
Here's the thing. Look at the posters. The posters said "Turkey is joining the EU".
That is what the discussion is about. What you and Phil two degrees are going on about God only knows.
Are the idiots still trying to reconcile the two concepts?
Turkey is joining the EU was a scaremongering lie aimed at those racists amongst us.
Cameron supporting Turkey joining the EU was saying he wanted then to become a country that could join the EU which it was and is miles away from.
A Turkey that could join the EU is a very different country to the one that exists right now.
Why do people find this difficult to understand?
How different would it have been? I suspect the GDP/capita gap would have been similar and that migration would have been almost entirely in one direction, as it was with the eastern european countries.
It has fulfilled is it one out of 25-odd necessary criteria. That would be pretty different.
None of the 25-odd criteria would close the GDP/capita gap. None of the 25-odd criteria would stop the drain of migration being one directional only.
As I just said, so the fuck what? If it doesn't fulfil the criteria it doesn't join.
Are you whining about a second if not third derivative?
The scaremongering was about migration from Turkey, and I think one of the biggest drivers of migration is seeking a better standard of living. You're claiming it would be a different country, but it might not be different in the areas that matter.
What the fuck are you talking about? The scaremongering was about Turkey joining the EU. Look at the posters. The clue is there.
They weren't playing on fears that the voting power of the UK's MEPs would be reduced, were they? It was about freedom of movement (the footsteps through that door might have been a bit of a clue)
Here's the thing. Look at the posters. The posters said "Turkey is joining the EU".
That is what the discussion is about. What you and Phil two degrees are going on about God only knows.
Yes, and they were designed to play on the fears of immigration from Turkey joining the EU. You're suggesting that Turkey would be a very different country after the 25 acquis are closed. I don't think it'll make much of a difference.
Watching the Bodyguard on BBC1 tonight any similarities between the Home Secretary and Theresa May are I assume purely coincidental
I found it a bit of a slow start. Though helped by Madden being easy on the eye. Hopefully it will ramp up a gear tomorrow - it was missing that intense Mercurio dialogue in ep 1
Gradual setting of the scene but I thought the first 20 minutes were quite dramatic
Yes - but when you know he is the lead character for the series, it was clear that he was never in danger
Though what would happen to the other characters in that scene was unkown
True - I still enjoyed it. But I hope it develops from what was a relatively slow first ep
We are await tomorrow night's episode with interest
That’s not the one I was thinking of: I thought you ment the one showing the queue of people trying to get in. After all this one is at worst an exageration. “Turkey is applying to join the EU” would have been completely true at the time.
It's not really visible on that photo but it also shows an open door with a queue of footprints trekking towards it.
This the one I was thinking of.
As I said above, I’m not sure how anyone can defend it.
Is Turkey explicitly mentioned on the Breaking Point poster? Ta in advance.
The 'breaking point' poster doesn't mention Turkey and the Turkey poster doesn't have a doctored photo (just doctored facts) but both represent disgusting lies that right-minded Leavers ought to be embarrassed at.
There is no doubt these and other lies such as £350m per week extra for the NHS swayed the outcome; whether Leave would have won without lying has to be in doubt.
Nope. What was pivotal to the outcome was Blair's unforgivable refusal to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004.
Without that there would have been no UKIP surge and no pressure for an EU referendum in the first place
And the then Govt’s blatant weasling out of a referendum on Constitution/Lisbon ( pick your name - same difference).
Want a lie folks: You can have a referendum. Just vote for us. Oh we won. Great. Oh crap the French and the Dutch said no, so we can’t trust you lot to vote the right way. So you can’t have a vote. So there. That’s that then, no way back now eh!
Brexit is at your door.
Yes if Blair and Brown want to find sone reasons for Brexit they just need to look at their record
Yes, funny how Blair is all keen on referendums these days. Odd isn’t it?
That’s not the one I was thinking of: I thought you ment the one showing the queue of people trying to get in. After all this one is at worst an exageration. “Turkey is applying to join the EU” would have been completely true at the time.
It's not really visible on that photo but it also shows an open door with a queue of footprints trekking towards it.
This the one I was thinking of.
As I said above, I’m not sure how anyone can defend it.
Is Turkey explicitly mentioned on the Breaking Point poster? Ta in advance.
The 'breaking point' poster doesn't mention Turkey and the Turkey poster doesn't have a doctored photo (just doctored facts) but both represent disgusting lies that right-minded Leavers ought to be embarrassed at.
There is no doubt these and other lies such as £350m per week extra for the NHS swayed the outcome; whether Leave would have won without lying has to be in doubt.
I *very* nearly voted Leave, probably would have done if I hadn't effectively given my vote to my then 17 year old son. I nevertheless never wavered from my opinion that Leave in general and Farage in particular were the biggest bunch of fucking conts on the face of the planet and that their campaign was shit from start to finish. I would expect the view of PB leavers to be the same and that they were not responsible for nor influenced by nor tacitly supportive of Farage and co; it is understandable if they are in fact embarrassed, but the situation doesn't justify hectoring demands that they should be.
Ishmael, if you think that was 'hectoring' you've led a sheltered life.
That Leavers 'ought to be embarrassed at' Farage's antics is simply my opinion; I'm in no position to make any demands.
That’s not the one I was thinking of: I thought you ment the one showing the queue of people trying to get in. After all this one is at worst an exageration. “Turkey is applying to join the EU” would have been completely true at the time.
It's not really visible on that photo but it also shows an open door with a queue of footprints trekking towards it.
This the one I was thinking of.
As I said above, I’m not sure how anyone can defend it.
Is Turkey explicitly mentioned on the Breaking Point poster? Ta in advance.
The 'breaking point' poster doesn't mention Turkey and the Turkey poster doesn't have a doctored photo (just doctored facts) but both represent disgusting lies that right-minded Leavers ought to be embarrassed at.
There is no doubt these and other lies such as £350m per week extra for the NHS swayed the outcome; whether Leave would have won without lying has to be in doubt.
It is water under the brdge now. The question is what happens next not what happened in the 2016 campaign
I'm afraid the resentment will fester for a long, long time Big_G, particularly amongst the young.
We had some friends staying this weekend (not particularly young as it happens), they are not at all political but I was amazed at how vehemently angry they are about the way Brexit is panning out and how badly they feel Leave misled the country.
Undoubtably true, and not only the people that you might expect. The fairly apolitical Mrs Foxy gets incandescent about how the Brexiteers are destroying the country.
That's pretty much the sentiment I was hearing from our friends - they are worried this will literally destroy the country when the impact on NI and Scotland plays out.
I hope everyone has a pleasant nights rest, especially my youngest son, his partner and our two grandchildren who travelled to Tenby today for a week camping with friends
Good night folks
Goodnight Big_G - good to hear from you as always!
I understood the image had been doctored so that it only showed young men. So it wasn’t even an honest photo of what was happening in Europe's South Eastern borders. It was a disgraceful poster.
Quite apart from any other consideration, non-EU immigration is, and always has been, under our control.
But it was going to become EU immigration, is the point.
And an estimated 80 per cent were young (single) men. The policy seemed to be the Titanic in reverse - women, children and the elderly last. Surely who gets our help should be based on who is most vulnerable not who can bully or bribe their way to the front of the queue?
True. Rather disgracefully, Britain has given refuge to precisely zero Syrian Christians over the last year, despite them being one of the most persecuted and vulnerable groups in that benighted land.
There would be some serious wailing were we to selectively provide refuge to Christians, no matter how justified it might be.
Given Christians are 10 per cent of the Syrian population and we are a supposedly Christian country the odds are we could have found at least one to invite here!
Are the idiots still trying to reconcile the two concepts?
Turkey is joining the EU was a scaremongering lie aimed at those racists amongst us.
Cameron supporting Turkey joining the EU was saying he wanted then to become a country that could join the EU which it was and is miles away from.
A Turkey that could join the EU is a very different country to the one that exists right now.
Why do people find this difficult to understand?
How different would it have been? I suspect the GDP/capita gap would have been similar and that migration would have been almost entirely in one direction, as it was with the eastern european countries.
It has fulfilled is it one out of 25-odd necessary criteria. That would be pretty different.
None of the 25-odd criteria would close the GDP/capita gap. None of the 25-odd criteria would stop the drain of migration being one directional only.
As I just said, so the fuck what? If it doesn't fulfil the criteria it doesn't join.
Are you whining about a second if not third derivative?
The scaremongering was about migration from Turkey, and I think one of the biggest drivers of migration is seeking a better standard of living. You're claiming it would be a different country, but it might not be different in the areas that matter.
What the fuck are you talking about? The scaremongering was about Turkey joining the EU. Look at the posters. The clue is there.
They weren't playing on fears that the voting power of the UK's MEPs would be reduced, were they? It was about freedom of movement (the footsteps through that door might have been a bit of a clue)
Here's the thing. Look at the posters. The posters said "Turkey is joining the EU".
That is what the discussion is about. What you and Phil two degrees are going on about God only knows.
Yes, and they were designed to play on the fears of immigration from Turkey joining the EU. You're suggesting that Turkey would be a very different country after the 25 acquis are closed. I don't think it'll make much of a difference.
I might have to not take seriously what difference you think it would make as you have no idea and it would not be the Turkey of today.
I hope everyone has a pleasant nights rest, especially my youngest son, his partner and our two grandchildren who travelled to Tenby today for a week camping with friends
Good night folks
Goodnight Big_G - good to hear from you as always!
And you too. I hope your worse fears do not materialise and maybe sanity will prevail in time with a new settlement with the EU, and even as a eventual member some time
That’s not the one I was thinking of: I thought you ment the one showing the queue of people trying to get in. After all this one is at worst an exageration. “Turkey is applying to join the EU” would have been completely true at the time.
It's not really visible on that photo but it also shows an open door with a queue of footprints trekking towards it.
This the one I was thinking of.
As I said above, I’m not sure how anyone can defend it.
Is Turkey explicitly mentioned on the Breaking Point poster? Ta in advance.
The 'breaking point' poster doesn't mention Turkey and the Turkey poster doesn't have a doctored photo (just doctored facts) but both represent disgusting lies that right-minded Leavers ought to be embarrassed at.
There is no doubt these and other lies such as £350m per week extra for the NHS swayed the outcome; whether Leave would have won without lying has to be in doubt.
Nope. What was pivotal to the outcome was Blair's unforgivable refusal to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004.
Without that there would have been no UKIP surge and no pressure for an EU referendum in the first place
And the then Govt’s blatant weasling out of a referendum on Constitution/Lisbon ( pick your name - same difference).
Want a lie folks: You can have a referendum. Just vote for us. Oh we won. Great. Oh crap the French and the Dutch said no, so we can’t trust you lot to vote the right way. So you can’t have a vote. So there. That’s that then, no way back now eh!
Brexit is at your door.
Yes if Blair and Brown want to find sone reasons for Brexit they just need to look at their record
Maybe. But Cameron's hand was on the tiller when the ship went down. History will place the lion's share of the blame on him. And rightly so.
The Northern Trust Open is in the books, won by Bryson Dechambeau, the first of the Fedex Cup playoffs. The top 100 now go on to the Dell Technologies open at TPC Boston next week. After that the top 70 go on to Aronimink in Philly. The top 30 then go on to the Tour Championship at East Lake at the end of September, the week before the Ryder Cup.
This is the last year the schedule is in this format. From next year the PGA Championship moves from July to May, and the Fedex Cup playoffs reduce from 4 events to 3, and they plus the Fedex Cup will be completed by the end of August. The intent is to reduce competition from college and NFL football.
That’s not the one I was thinking of: I thought you ment the one showing the queue of people trying to get in. After all this one is at worst an exageration. “Turkey is applying to join the EU” would have been completely true at the time.
It's not really visible on that photo but it also shows an open door with a queue of footprints trekking towards it.
This the one I was thinking of.
As I said above, I’m not sure how anyone can defend it.
Is Turkey explicitly mentioned on the Breaking Point poster? Ta in advance.
The 'breaking point' poster doesn't mention Turkey and the Turkey poster doesn't have a doctored photo (just doctored facts) but both represent disgusting lies that right-minded Leavers ought to be embarrassed at.
There is no doubt these and other lies such as £350m per week extra for the NHS swayed the outcome; whether Leave would have won without lying has to be in doubt.
Nope. What was pivotal to the outcome was Blair's unforgivable refusal to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004.
Without that there would have been no UKIP surge and no pressure for an EU referendum in the first place
And the then Govt’s blatant weasling out of a referendum on Constitution/Lisbon ( pick your name - same difference).
Want a lie folks: You can have a referendum. Just vote for us. Oh we won. Great. Oh crap the French and the Dutch said no, so we can’t trust you lot to vote the right way. So you can’t have a vote. So there. That’s that then, no way back now eh! Brexit is at your door.
Yes if Blair and Brown want to find sone reasons for Brexit they just need to look at their record
Yes, funny how Blair is all keen on referendums these days. Odd isn’t it?
Referendums to boost Liberal causes are fine
Blair was a traitor to Liberal causes. Enough said.
That’s not the one I was thinking of: I thought you ment the one showing the queue of people trying to get in. After all this one is at worst an exageration. “Turkey is applying to join the EU” would have been completely true at the time.
It's not really visible on that photo but it also shows an open door with a queue of footprints trekking towards it.
This the one I was thinking of.
As I said above, I’m not sure how anyone can defend it.
Is Turkey explicitly mentioned on the Breaking Point poster? Ta in advance.
The 'breaking point' poster doesn't mention Turkey and the Turkey poster doesn't have a doctored photo (just doctored facts) but both represent disgusting lies that right-minded Leavers ought to be embarrassed at.
There is no doubt these and other lies such as £350m per week extra for the NHS swayed the outcome; whether Leave would have won without lying has to be in doubt.
Nope. What was pivotal to the outcome was Blair's unforgivable refusal to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004.
Without that there would have been no UKIP surge and no pressure for an EU referendum in the first place
And the then Govt’s blatant weasling out of a referendum on Constitution/Lisbon ( pick your name - same difference).
Want a lie folks: You can have a referendum. Just vote for us. Oh we won. Great. Oh crap the French and the Dutch said no, so we can’t trust you lot to vote the right way. So you can’t have a vote. So there. That’s that then, no way back now eh!
Brexit is at your door.
Yes if Blair and Brown want to find sone reasons for Brexit they just need to look at their record
Quite, it has nothing whatsoever to do with Mr Cameron calling his ridiculous referendum.
1. Oxford Simon. Wes Streeting and others (myself) want a Labour government. Yes Corbyn has unsavoury friends. But the alternative is a dogwhistle racist Tory government with interesting friends. 2. Awful as the latest shooting in America is, that is the society that Americans vote for. We may find their gun culture and mass shootings distasteful but they keep voting for politicians who maintain it so they must have a different perspective. 3. We do have to park the personal abuse. Lets not have political betting go the way that Facebook has gone for the Labour Party....
Your second point isn’t strictly correct. There is now quite a large (perhaps two thirds) majority in favour of stricter gun laws in the US; the Second Amendment, and more particularly the way it has been interpreted in recent Supreme Court decisions means that they are not going to get their way even if they vote for it.
Chuck Schumer has suggested that the Russell Senate Office Building be renamed after John McCain. Several have suggested that it would then be known as the McCain S.O.B. Pretty much all think he would have seen the humor in that.
1. Oxford Simon. Wes Streeting and others (myself) want a Labour government. Yes Corbyn has unsavoury friends. But the alternative is a dogwhistle racist Tory government with interesting friends. 2. Awful as the latest shooting in America is, that is the society that Americans vote for. We may find their gun culture and mass shootings distasteful but they keep voting for politicians who maintain it so they must have a different perspective. 3. We do have to park the personal abuse. Lets not have political betting go the way that Facebook has gone for the Labour Party....
Your second point isn’t strictly correct. There is now quite a large (perhaps two thirds) majority in favour of stricter gun laws in the US; the Second Amendment, and more particularly the way it has been interpreted in recent Supreme Court decisions means that they are not going to get their way even if they vote for it.
Article V of the Constitution prescribes how an amendment can become a part of the Constitution. While there are two ways, only one has ever been used. All 27 Amendments have been ratified after two-thirds of the House and Senate approve of the proposal and send it to the states for a vote. Then, three-fourths of the states must affirm the proposed Amendment.
The other method of passing an amendment requires a Constitutional Convention to be called by two-thirds of the legislatures of the States. That Convention can propose as many amendments as it deems necessary. Those amendments must be approved by three-fourths of the states.
Are the idiots still trying to reconcile the two concepts?
Turkey is joining the EU was a scaremongering lie aimed at those racists amongst us.
Cameron supporting Turkey joining the EU was saying he wanted then to become a country that could join the EU which it was and is miles away from.
A Turkey that could join the EU is a very different country to the one that exists right now.
Why do people find this difficult to understand?
How different would it have been? I suspect the GDP/capita gap would have been similar and that migration would have been almost entirely in one direction, as it was with the eastern european countries.
It has fulfilled is it one out of 25-odd necessary criteria. That would be pretty different.
None of the 25-odd criteria would close the GDP/capita gap. None of the 25-odd criteria would stop the drain of migration being one directional only.
As I just said, so the fuck what? If it doesn't fulfil the criteria it doesn't join.
Are you whining about a second if not third derivative?
The scaremongering was about migration from Turkey, and I think one of the biggest drivers of migration is seeking a better standard of living. You're claiming it would be a different country, but it might not be different in the areas that matter.
What the fuck are you talking about? The scaremongering was about Turkey joining the EU. Look at the posters. The clue is there.
They weren't playing on fears that the voting power of the UK's MEPs would be reduced, were they? It was about freedom of movement (the footsteps through that door might have been a bit of a clue)
Here's the thing. Look at the posters. The posters said "Turkey is joining the EU".
That is what the discussion is about. What you and Phil two degrees are going on about God only knows.
Yes, and they were designed to play on the fears of immigration from Turkey joining the EU. You're suggesting that Turkey would be a very different country after the 25 acquis are closed. I don't think it'll make much of a difference.
I might have to not take seriously what difference you think it would make as you have no idea and it would not be the Turkey of today.
Perhaps not, but the economic motivators for immigration probably will be similar. The 25 acquis didn't bring eastern europe up to the same level before they joined, did they?
1. Oxford Simon. Wes Streeting and others (myself) want a Labour government. Yes Corbyn has unsavoury friends. But the alternative is a dogwhistle racist Tory government with interesting friends. 2. Awful as the latest shooting in America is, that is the society that Americans vote for. We may find their gun culture and mass shootings distasteful but they keep voting for politicians who maintain it so they must have a different perspective. 3. We do have to park the personal abuse. Lets not have political betting go the way that Facebook has gone for the Labour Party....
I appreciate your loyalty. But I feel that Corbyn is so tarnished that you are fighting for someone who would be actively dangerous to the well-being of our nation and our democracy.
The apparent reasonable tone of voice and the softly-spoken appearance of failed geography teacher conceal a man whose instincts are far outside what Labour has ever stood for.
Loyalty is admirable. Loyalty to your party is admirable.
Corbyn is not Labour. He needs to be removed for the good of your party and our nation. And if that is not possible, the party needs to move away from him.
I don't buy into all the stories that have been spread about him. But there is more than enough out there to make me certain that he is a threat that needs to be dealt with.
1. Oxford Simon. Wes Streeting and others (myself) want a Labour government. Yes Corbyn has unsavoury friends. But the alternative is a dogwhistle racist Tory government with interesting friends. 2. Awful as the latest shooting in America is, that is the society that Americans vote for. We may find their gun culture and mass shootings distasteful but they keep voting for politicians who maintain it so they must have a different perspective. 3. We do have to park the personal abuse. Lets not have political betting go the way that Facebook has gone for the Labour Party....
Your second point isn’t strictly correct. There is now quite a large (perhaps two thirds) majority in favour of stricter gun laws in the US; the Second Amendment, and more particularly the way it has been interpreted in recent Supreme Court decisions means that they are not going to get their way even if they vote for it.
Article V of the Constitution prescribes how an amendment can become a part of the Constitution. While there are two ways, only one has ever been used. All 27 Amendments have been ratified after two-thirds of the House and Senate approve of the proposal and send it to the states for a vote. Then, three-fourths of the states must affirm the proposed Amendment.
The other method of passing an amendment requires a Constitutional Convention to be called by two-thirds of the legislatures of the States. That Convention can propose as many amendments as it deems necessary. Those amendments must be approved by three-fourths of the states.
Non-legal summary: it's not going to happen.
Which is pretty well what I said.
Interestingly, it’s just possible the ERA might finally get ratified soon. Just requires one more state...
Of course the current SC will then do their best to gut it.
1. Oxford Simon. Wes Streeting and others (myself) want a Labour government. Yes Corbyn has unsavoury friends. But the alternative is a dogwhistle racist Tory government with interesting friends. 2. Awful as the latest shooting in America is, that is the society that Americans vote for. We may find their gun culture and mass shootings distasteful but they keep voting for politicians who maintain it so they must have a different perspective. 3. We do have to park the personal abuse. Lets not have political betting go the way that Facebook has gone for the Labour Party....
Your second point isn’t strictly correct. There is now quite a large (perhaps two thirds) majority in favour of stricter gun laws in the US; the Second Amendment, and more particularly the way it has been interpreted in recent Supreme Court decisions means that they are not going to get their way even if they vote for it.
Article V of the Constitution prescribes how an amendment can become a part of the Constitution. While there are two ways, only one has ever been used. All 27 Amendments have been ratified after two-thirds of the House and Senate approve of the proposal and send it to the states for a vote. Then, three-fourths of the states must affirm the proposed Amendment.
The other method of passing an amendment requires a Constitutional Convention to be called by two-thirds of the legislatures of the States. That Convention can propose as many amendments as it deems necessary. Those amendments must be approved by three-fourths of the states.
Non-legal summary: it's not going to happen.
Which is pretty well what I said.
Interestingly, it’s just possible the ERA might finally get ratified soon. Just requires one more state...
Of course the current SC will then do their best to gut it.
Unfortunately it won't - Congress, which overwhelmingly approved the Equal Rights Amendment on March 22, 1972, set a seven-year deadline for three-quarters of the states to ratify it. The deadline was later extended to 1982 but that deadline passed with only 35 states on board. They needed 38.
I'm losing track. Was the War of the Roses worth it now that we have had 500-odd years to digest it?
I do think Irish Home Rule is working out well. Perhaps we need a little more time to decide on the repeal of the Corn laws.
I think the Brexiteers are getting desperate. They know that next Spring it will be an absolute shit-show, but don't worry you ordinary bat people, when the history books are written in a hundred years it will look like the right decision.
Meanwhile, my castle in Somerset is well provisioned with grouse and my investment company has, utterly randomly, and totally unconnected, moved to Dublin.
That’s not the one I was thinking of: I thought you ment the one showing the queue of people trying to get in. After all this one is at worst an exageration. “Turkey is applying to join the EU” would have been completely true at the time.
It's not really visible on that photo but it also shows an open door with a queue of footprints trekking towards it.
This the one I was thinking of.
As I said above, I’m not sure how anyone can defend it.
Is Turkey explicitly mentioned on the Breaking Point poster? Ta in advance.
The 'breaking point' poster doesn't mention Turkey and the Turkey poster doesn't have a doctored photo (just doctored facts) but both represent disgusting lies that right-minded Leavers ought to be embarrassed at.
There is no doubt these and other lies such as £350m per week extra for the NHS swayed the outcome; whether Leave would have won without lying has to be in doubt.
It is water under the brdge now. The question is what happens next not what happened in the 2016 campaign
I'm afraid the resentment will fester for a long, long time Big_G, particularly amongst the young.
We had some friends staying this weekend (not particularly young as it happens), they are not at all political but I was amazed at how vehemently angry they are about the way Brexit is panning out and how badly they feel Leave misled the country.
Undoubtably true, and not only the people that you might expect. The fairly apolitical Mrs Foxy gets incandescent about how the Brexiteers are destroying the country.
That's pretty much the sentiment I was hearing from our friends - they are worried this will literally destroy the country when the impact on NI and Scotland plays out.
The SNP won more MPs BEFORE the Brexit vote than after.
Most Protestants in Northern Ireland voted to Leave
That’s not the one I was thinking of: I thought you ment the one showing the queue of people trying to get in. After all this one is at worst an exageration. “Turkey is applying to join the EU” would have been completely true at the time.
It's not really visible on that photo but it also shows an open door with a queue of footprints trekking towards it.
This the one I was thinking of.
As I said above, I’m not sure how anyone can defend it.
Is Turkey explicitly mentioned on the Breaking Point poster? Ta in advance.
The 'breaking point' poster doesn't mention Turkey and the Turkey poster doesn't have a doctored photo (just doctored facts) but both represent disgusting lies that right-minded Leavers ought to be embarrassed at.
There is no doubt these and other lies such as £350m per week extra for the NHS swayed the outcome; whether Leave would have won without lying has to be in doubt.
Nope. What was pivotal to the outcome was Blair's unforgivable refusal to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004.
Without that there would have been no UKIP surge and no pressure for an EU referendum in the first place
And the then Govt’s blatant weasling out of a referendum on Constitution/Lisbon ( pick your name - same difference).
Want a lie folks: You can have a referendum. Just vote for us. Oh we won. Great. Oh crap the French and the Dutch said no, so we can’t trust you lot to vote the right way. So you can’t have a vote. So there. That’s that then, no way back now eh!
Brexit is at your door.
Yes if Blair and Brown want to find sone reasons for Brexit they just need to look at their record
Maybe. But Cameron's hand was on the tiller when the ship went down. History will place the lion's share of the blame on him. And rightly so.
Cameron simply called a referendum to reflect the growing anti EU feeling in the country in large part due to Blair's open borders immigration policy and Brown's Lisbon fiasco
I'm losing track. Was the War of the Roses worth it now that we have had 500-odd years to digest it?
I do think Irish Home Rule is working out well. Perhaps we need a little more time to decide on the repeal of the Corn laws.
I think the Brexiteers are getting desperate. They know that next Spring it will be an absolute shit-show, but don't worry you ordinary bat people, when the history books are written in a hundred years it will look like the right decision.
Meanwhile, my castle in Somerset is well provisioned with grouse and my investment company has, utterly randomly, and totally unconnected, moved to Dublin.
No it won't, May is heading for a sensible Deal just diehard Remainers who refuse to accept democracy wish it were not so and diehard Leavers want no compromise with the EU at all
I'm losing track. Was the War of the Roses worth it now that we have had 500-odd years to digest it?
I do think Irish Home Rule is working out well. Perhaps we need a little more time to decide on the repeal of the Corn laws.
I think the Brexiteers are getting desperate. They know that next Spring it will be an absolute shit-show, but don't worry you ordinary bat people, when the history books are written in a hundred years it will look like the right decision.
Meanwhile, my castle in Somerset is well provisioned with grouse and my investment company has, utterly randomly, and totally unconnected, moved to Dublin.
No it won't, May is heading for a sensible Deal just diehard Remainers who refuse to accept democracy wish it were not so and diehard Leavers want no compromise with the EU at all
1. Oxford Simon. Wes Streeting and others (myself) want a Labour government. Yes Corbyn has unsavoury friends. But the alternative is a dogwhistle racist Tory government with interesting friends. 2. Awful as the latest shooting in America is, that is the society that Americans vote for. We may find their gun culture and mass shootings distasteful but they keep voting for politicians who maintain it so they must have a different perspective. 3. We do have to park the personal abuse. Lets not have political betting go the way that Facebook has gone for the Labour Party....
Your second point isn’t strictly correct. There is now quite a large (perhaps two thirds) majority in favour of stricter gun laws in the US; the Second Amendment, and more particularly the way it has been interpreted in recent Supreme Court decisions means that they are not going to get their way even if they vote for it.
Article V of the Constitution prescribes how an amendment can become a part of the Constitution. While there are two ways, only one has ever been used. All 27 Amendments have been ratified after two-thirds of the House and Senate approve of the proposal and send it to the states for a vote. Then, three-fourths of the states must affirm the proposed Amendment.
The other method of passing an amendment requires a Constitutional Convention to be called by two-thirds of the legislatures of the States. That Convention can propose as many amendments as it deems necessary. Those amendments must be approved by three-fourths of the states.
Non-legal summary: it's not going to happen.
Which is pretty well what I said.
Interestingly, it’s just possible the ERA might finally get ratified soon. Just requires one more state...
Of course the current SC will then do their best to gut it.
Unfortunately it won't - Congress, which overwhelmingly approved the Equal Rights Amendment on March 22, 1972, set a seven-year deadline for three-quarters of the states to ratify it. The deadline was later extended to 1982 but that deadline passed with only 35 states on board. They needed 38.
A deadline which could be rescinded by Congress (Coleman v Miller). Hardly an insuperable hurdle.
I'm losing track. Was the War of the Roses worth it now that we have had 500-odd years to digest it?
I do think Irish Home Rule is working out well. Perhaps we need a little more time to decide on the repeal of the Corn laws.
I think the Brexiteers are getting desperate. They know that next Spring it will be an absolute shit-show, but don't worry you ordinary bat people, when the history books are written in a hundred years it will look like the right decision.
Meanwhile, my castle in Somerset is well provisioned with grouse and my investment company has, utterly randomly, and totally unconnected, moved to Dublin.
No it won't, May is heading for a sensible Deal just diehard Remainers who refuse to accept democracy wish it were not so and diehard Leavers want no compromise with the EU at all
Also, as a Remainer, I accept the result. It is a disaster, and I reserve the right to say this at all opportunities. But we live in a democracy. The people wanted out and they should get out. As HL Mencken said.
But, big but, I also reserve the right to argue, as is my constitutional right, for a People's vote on final deal.
Just as Farage and Aaron Banks would have done if they had lost by 52-48.
That’s not the one I was thinking of: I thought you ment the one showing the queue of people trying to get in. After all this one is at worst an exageration. “Turkey is applying to join the EU” would have been completely true at the time.
It's not really visible on that photo but it also shows an open door with a queue of footprints trekking towards it.
This the one I was thinking of.
As I said above, I’m not sure how anyone can defend it.
Is Turkey explicitly mentioned on the Breaking Point poster? Ta in advance.
The 'breaking point' poster doesn't mention Turkey and the Turkey poster doesn't have a doctored photo (just doctored facts) but both represent disgusting lies that right-minded Leavers ought to be embarrassed at.
There is no doubt these and other lies such as £350m per week extra for the NHS swayed the outcome; whether Leave would have won without lying has to be in doubt.
Nope. What was pivotal to the outcome was Blair's unforgivable refusal to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004.
Without that there would have been no UKIP surge and no pressure for an EU referendum in the first place
And the then Govt’s blatant weasling out of a referendum on Constitution/Lisbon ( pick your name - same difference).
Want a lie folks: You can have a referendum. Just vote for us. Oh we won. Great. Oh crap the French and the Dutch said no, so we can’t trust you lot to vote the right way. So you can’t have a vote. So there. That’s that then, no way back now eh!
Brexit is at your door.
Yes if Blair and Brown want to find sone reasons for Brexit they just need to look at their record
Maybe. But Cameron's hand was on the tiller when the ship went down. History will place the lion's share of the blame on him. And rightly so.
Cameron simply called a referendum to reflect the growing anti EU feeling in the country in large part due to Blair's open borders immigration policy and Brown's Lisbon fiasco
I think history will be far, far more unkind on Cameron. He was a straw man, blown by the winds, who agreed to a vote he did not believe in.
The history books rarely look kindly on that kind of vacillation.
I'm losing track. Was the War of the Roses worth it now that we have had 500-odd years to digest it?
I do think Irish Home Rule is working out well. Perhaps we need a little more time to decide on the repeal of the Corn laws.
I think the Brexiteers are getting desperate. They know that next Spring it will be an absolute shit-show, but don't worry you ordinary bat people, when the history books are written in a hundred years it will look like the right decision.
Meanwhile, my castle in Somerset is well provisioned with grouse and my investment company has, utterly randomly, and totally unconnected, moved to Dublin.
No it won't, May is heading for a sensible Deal just diehard Remainers who refuse to accept democracy wish it were not so and diehard Leavers want no compromise with the EU at all
Also, as a Remainer, I accept the result. It is a disaster, and I reserve the right to say this at all opportunities. But we live in a democracy. The people wanted out and they should get out. As HL Mencken said.
But, big but, I also reserve the right to argue, as is my constitutional right, for a People's vote on final deal.
Just as Farage and Aaron Banks would have done if they had lost by 52-48.
A Deal or No Deal referendum vote is fine by me.
Given Remain lost in 2016 it of course no longer needs to be an option
That’s not the one I was thinking of: I thought you ment the one showing the queue of people trying to get in. After all this one is at worst an exageration. “Turkey is applying to join the EU” would have been completely true at the time.
It's not really visible on that photo but it also shows an open door with a queue of footprints trekking towards it.
This the one I was thinking of.
As I said above, I’m not sure how anyone can defend it.
Is Turkey explicitly mentioned on the Breaking Point poster? Ta in advance.
The 'breaking point' poster doesn't mention Turkey and the Turkey poster doesn't have a doctored photo (just doctored facts) but both represent disgusting lies that right-minded Leavers ought to be embarrassed at.
There is no doubt these and other lies such as £350m per week extra for the NHS swayed the outcome; whether Leave would have won without lying has to be in doubt.
Nope. What was pivotal to the outcome was Blair's unforgivable refusal to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004.
Without that there would have been no UKIP surge and no pressure for an EU referendum in the first place
And the then Govt’s blatant weasling out of ack now eh!
Brexit is at your door.
Yes if Blair and Brown want to find sone reasons for Brexit they just need to look at their record
Maybe. But Cameron's hand was on the tiller when the ship went down. History will place the lion's share of the blame on him. And rightly so.
Cameron simply called a referendum to reflect the growing anti EU feeling in the country in large part due to Blair's open borders immigration policy and Brown's Lisbon fiasco
I think history will be far, far more unkind on Cameron. He was a straw man, blown by the winds, who agreed to a vote he did not believe in.
The history books rarely look kindly on that kind of vacillation.
I'm losing track. Was the War of the Roses worth it now that we have had 500-odd years to digest it?
I do think Irish Home Rule is working out well. Perhaps we need a little more time to decide on the repeal of the Corn laws.
I think the Brexiteers are getting desperate. They know that next Spring it will be an absolute shit-show, but don't worry you ordinary bat people, when the history books are written in a hundred years it will look like the right decision.
Meanwhile, my castle in Somerset is well provisioned with grouse and my investment company has, utterly randomly, and totally unconnected, moved to Dublin.
No it won't, May is heading for a sensible Deal just diehard Remainers who refuse to accept democracy wish it were not so and diehard Leavers want no compromise with the EU at all
Also, as a Remainer, I accept the result. It is a disaster, and I reserve the right to say this at all opportunities. But we live in a democracy. The people wanted out and they should get out. As HL Mencken said.
But, big but, I also reserve the right to argue, as is my constitutional right, for a People's vote on final deal.
Just as Farage and Aaron Banks would have done if they had lost by 52-48.
Boris Johnson: 'There are no disasters, only opportunities. And, indeed, opportunities for fresh disasters.'
That’s not the one I was thinking of: I thought you ment the one showing the queue of people trying to get in. After all this one is at worst an exageration. “Turkey is applying to join the EU” would have been completely true at the time.
It's not really visible on that photo but it also shows an open door with a queue of footprints trekking towards it.
This the one I was thinking of.
As I said above, I’m not sure how anyone can defend it.
Is Turkey explicitly mentioned on the Breaking Point poster? Ta in advance.
The 'breaking point' poster doesn't mention Turkey and the Turkey poster doesn't have a doctored photo (just doctored facts) but both represent disgusting lies that right-minded Leavers ought to be embarrassed at.
There is no doubt these and other lies such as £350m per week extra for the NHS swayed the outcome; whether Leave would have won without lying has to be in doubt.
Nope. What was pivotal to the outcome was Blair's unforgivable refusal to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004.
Without that there would have been no UKIP surge and no pressure for an EU referendum in the first place
And the then Govt’s blatant weasling out of ack now eh!
Brexit is at your door.
Yes if Blair and Brown want to find sone reasons for Brexit they just need to look at their record
Maybe. But Cameron's hand was on the tiller when the ship went down. History will place the lion's share of the blame on him. And rightly so.
Cameron simply called a referendum to reflect the growing anti EU feeling in the country in large part due to Blair's open borders immigration policy and Brown's Lisbon fiasco
I think history will be far, far more unkind on Cameron. He was a straw man, blown by the winds, who agreed to a vote he did not believe in.
The history books rarely look kindly on that kind of vacillation.
I'm losing track. Was the War of the Roses worth it now that we have had 500-odd years to digest it?
I do think Irish Home Rule is working out well. Perhaps we need a little more time to decide on the repeal of the Corn laws.
I think the Brexiteers are getting desperate. They know that next Spring it will be an absolute shit-show, but don't worry you ordinary bat people, when the history books are written in a hundred years it will look like the right decision.
Meanwhile, my castle in Somerset is well provisioned with grouse and my investment company has, utterly randomly, and totally unconnected, moved to Dublin.
No it won't, May is heading for a sensible Deal just diehard Remainers who refuse to accept democracy wish it were not so and diehard Leavers want no compromise with the EU at all
May is heading to a sensible deal.
Don't forget to telex JRM this news.
What would he know about 'sensible'?
He wouldn't recognise 'sensible' if it vomited on him......
I'm losing track. Was the War of the Roses worth it now that we have had 500-odd years to digest it?
I do think Irish Home Rule is working out well. Perhaps we need a little more time to decide on the repeal of the Corn laws.
I think the Brexiteers are getting desperate. They know that next Spring it will be an absolute shit-show, but don't worry you ordinary bat people, when the history books are written in a hundred years it will look like the right decision.
Meanwhile, my castle in Somerset is well provisioned with grouse and my investment company has, utterly randomly, and totally unconnected, moved to Dublin.
No it won't, May is heading for a sensible Deal just diehard Remainers who refuse to accept democracy wish it were not so and diehard Leavers want no compromise with the EU at all
Also, as a Remainer, I accept the result. It is a disaster, and I reserve the right to say this at all opportunities. But we live in a democracy. The people wanted out and they should get out. As HL Mencken said.
But, big but, I also reserve the right to argue, as is my constitutional right, for a People's vote on final deal.
Just as Farage and Aaron Banks would have done if they had lost by 52-48.
I'm scanning that constitution for your right to have a People's vote.....
Nope. No sign. Not even a Cheat's Charter for Sore Losers.
I'm losing track. Was the War of the Roses worth it now that we have had 500-odd years to digest it?
I do think Irish Home Rule is working out well. Perhaps we need a little more time to decide on the repeal of the Corn laws.
I think the Brexiteers are getting desperate. They know that next Spring it will be an absolute shit-show, but don't worry you ordinary bat people, when the history books are written in a hundred years it will look like the right decision.
Meanwhile, my castle in Somerset is well provisioned with grouse and my investment company has, utterly randomly, and totally unconnected, moved to Dublin.
No it won't, May is heading for a sensible Deal just diehard Remainers who refuse to accept democracy wish it were not so and diehard Leavers want no compromise with the EU at all
Also, as a Remainer, I accept the result. It is a disaster, and I reserve the right to say this at all opportunities. But we live in a democracy. The people wanted out and they should get out. As HL Mencken said.
But, big but, I also reserve the right to argue, as is my constitutional right, for a People's vote on final deal.
Just as Farage and Aaron Banks would have done if they had lost by 52-48.
I'm scanning that constitution for your right to have a People's vote.....
Nope. No sign. Not even a Cheat's Charter for Sore Losers.
That's not what he said : he said it was his constitutional right to argue for vote.
That’s not the one I was thinking of: I thought you ment the one showing the queue of people trying to get in. After all this one is at worst an exageration. “Turkey is applying to join the EU” would have been completely true at the time.
It's not really visible on that photo but it also shows an open door with a queue of footprints trekking towards it.
This the one I was thinking of.
As I said above, I’m not sure how anyone can defend it.
Is Turkey explicitly mentioned on the Breaking Point poster? Ta in advance.
The 'breaking point' poster doesn't mention Turkey and the Turkey poster doesn't have a doctored photo (just doctored facts) but both represent disgusting lies that right-minded Leavers ought to be embarrassed at.
There is no doubt these and other lies such as £350m per week extra for the NHS swayed the outcome; whether Leave would have won without lying has to be in doubt.
Nope. What was pivotal to the outcome was Blair's unforgivable refusal to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004.
Without that there would have been no UKIP surge and no pressure for an EU referendum in the first place
.
Yes if Blair and Brown want to find sone reasons for Brexit they just need to look at their record
Maybe. But Cameron's hand was on the tiller when the ship went down. History will place the lion's share of the blame on him. And rightly so.
Cameron simply called a referendum to reflect the growing anti EU feeling in the country in large part due to Blair's open borders immigration policy and Brown's Lisbon fiasco
I agree with your hypothesis as to main reason for growth in anti EU feeling, and the leave vote. But it can’t then stop at narrow party political point scoring, Because too in large part open borders immigration policy since 2010 right up the vote.
And beyond. And which Brexit won’t make a great deal of difference to. Kerplunk! The penny’s going to drop at some point about what’s really behind it, and who the real enemy is. Globalisation.
Comments
I can see me unfollowing quite a few of my new friends on mardy Monday.
Want a lie folks: You can have a referendum. Just vote for us. Oh we won. Great. Oh crap the French and the Dutch said no, so we can’t trust you lot to vote the right way. So you can’t have a vote. So there. That’s that then, no way back now eh!
Brexit is at your door.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/25/us/politics/superdelegates-democrats-dnc.html
I hope everyone has a pleasant nights rest, especially my youngest son, his partner and our two grandchildren who travelled to Tenby today for a week camping with friends
Good night folks
That is what the discussion is about. What you and Phil two degrees are going on about God only knows.
That Leavers 'ought to be embarrassed at' Farage's antics is simply my opinion; I'm in no position to make any demands.
This is the last year the schedule is in this format. From next year the PGA Championship moves from July to May, and the Fedex Cup playoffs reduce from 4 events to 3, and they plus the Fedex Cup will be completed by the end of August. The intent is to reduce competition from college and NFL football.
https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1033632618393296896
https://twitter.com/stevebakerhw/status/1033604047683641344?s=21
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1033751908048089088?s=19
https://twitter.com/woodgnomology/status/1033760750244913152
There is now quite a large (perhaps two thirds) majority in favour of stricter gun laws in the US; the Second Amendment, and more particularly the way it has been interpreted in recent Supreme Court decisions means that they are not going to get their way even if they vote for it.
Article V of the Constitution prescribes how an amendment can become a part of the Constitution. While there are two ways, only one has ever been used. All 27 Amendments have been ratified after two-thirds of the House and Senate approve of the proposal and send it to the states for a vote. Then, three-fourths of the states must affirm the proposed Amendment.
The other method of passing an amendment requires a Constitutional Convention to be called by two-thirds of the legislatures of the States. That Convention can propose as many amendments as it deems necessary. Those amendments must be approved by three-fourths of the states.
Non-legal summary: it's not going to happen.
The apparent reasonable tone of voice and the softly-spoken appearance of failed geography teacher conceal a man whose instincts are far outside what Labour has ever stood for.
Loyalty is admirable. Loyalty to your party is admirable.
Corbyn is not Labour. He needs to be removed for the good of your party and our nation. And if that is not possible, the party needs to move away from him.
I don't buy into all the stories that have been spread about him. But there is more than enough out there to make me certain that he is a threat that needs to be dealt with.
Interestingly, it’s just possible the ERA might finally get ratified soon. Just requires one more state...
Of course the current SC will then do their best to gut it.
Meanwhile, my castle in Somerset is well provisioned with grouse and my investment company has, utterly randomly, and totally unconnected, moved to Dublin.
Most Protestants in Northern Ireland voted to Leave
Don't forget to telex JRM this news.
But, big but, I also reserve the right to argue, as is my constitutional right, for a People's vote on final deal.
Just as Farage and Aaron Banks would have done if they had lost by 52-48.
The history books rarely look kindly on that kind of vacillation.
Given Remain lost in 2016 it of course no longer needs to be an option
He wouldn't recognise 'sensible' if it vomited on him......
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7107011/gina-miller-future-lib-dem-leader/
https://twitter.com/daaronovitch/status/1033673834799542272?s=21
Nope. No sign. Not even a Cheat's Charter for Sore Losers.
And beyond. And which Brexit won’t make a great deal of difference to.
Kerplunk! The penny’s going to drop at some point about what’s really behind it, and who the real enemy is. Globalisation.