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  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728

    Floater said:
    So a security outfit got in touch with the MPs to offer their services and the Telegraph has laid off any journalist who can tell the difference between a press release and an advert.
    Also I am pretty sure Labour MPs, particularly the women, have been stepping up efforts to get security since the far right started killing (or trying to) them. A labour MP actually died during the Brexit campaign, you can't say for sure but it seems incredibly likely she would still be with us were it not for the Brexit campaign. I realise this doesn't fit into angry right wing anti Corbyn propaganda but it is quite disrespectful.

    The far right have a particular problem with Labour MPs, more so women it seems, probably not helped by the newspapers and the propaganda run against them by various right wing newspapers. This is probably why the far right support Labour line is extra insulting. As they are trying to kill and abusing Labour MPs, from Abbot and Corbyn to Berger and Cox right wingers go on about how the far right love them. They don't.

    They hate immigration, they are generally Brexit fans. They don't like Labour for the reasons they try and kill them and abuse them constantly. They generally hate Muslims and you will occasionally see the odd idiot talking about how Corbyn is going to bring millions of Muslims into Britain, usually followed by forcing Sharia law on us all. Look at the way Sean 'expel the Muslims' T of this parish talks about Corbyn.

    Look at how David Duke actually talks about Corbyn, I've put the tweet up before that he posted just before the UK general election where he makes out Corbyn is basically the anti Christ, or even worse from his far right point of view, a communist.

    Actually look at Nick Griffin's twitter, the guy does seem to be a bit of a troll, he'll have a tweet talking about some guardian (or maybe observer) journalist being far left because of an article they wrote, basically using language you would get Corbyn opponents and not his supporters using before finishing the tweet with a #JC4PM. He's probably realised he can get press attention from it and most anti Corbyn types would rather mindlessly repeat the smears they read in the mainstream press rather than check out any evidence to try to come to a conclusion themselves.
    Odd how you forget that MPs - and yes, even a Labour one - have been attacked by non right-wingers in recent times:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Timms#Murder_attempt
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Jones,_Baron_Jones_of_Cheltenham#Attack

    But they don't scount in your rant, obviously ...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. Glenn, that would simply alter the subject of said Parliamentary showdown from voting on the deal to voting on the referendum on the deal.
  • PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,275
    MikeL said:

    It's often been said that there is no majority in Parliament for any deal TMay may put forward - Lab will oppose and there are bound to be enough Con rebels to defeat it (notwithstanding a few Lab rebels).

    So the question is this - can TMay design an "outcome" which doesn't actually need approval in Parliament if it's broadly just a continuation of the status quo, albeit formally outside the EU? (The legislation to Leave having already been passed).

    My instinct is that the answer is "No" - but who knows?

    Allow A50 to expire and then rejoin EFTA. The EEA treaty apparently is not automatically revoked by Brexit and will remain in force so long as we are members of either the EU or EFTA. It's being talked of as a fallback position which does not involve crashing out.

    The EFTA set are working quietly behind the scenes anticipating a failure of Chequers. You'll find some material if you browse around

    https://twitter.com/RupertDarwall

    https://twitter.com/GeorgeTrefgarne
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,752
    William_H said:

    MikeL said:

    So the question is this - can TMay design an "outcome" which doesn't actually need approval in Parliament if it's broadly just a continuation of the status quo, albeit formally outside the EU? (The legislation to Leave having already been passed).

    A referendum on withdrawal agreement is the cleanest way to bypass a final parliamentary showdown.
    A referendum would need parliamentary approval beforehand, so it wouldn't bypass a showdown.
    Almost impossible to imagine Labour voting against it though.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,181
    MikeL said:

    It's often been said that there is no majority in Parliament for any deal TMay may put forward - Lab will oppose and there are bound to be enough Con rebels to defeat it (notwithstanding a few Lab rebels).

    So the question is this - can TMay design an "outcome" which doesn't actually need approval in Parliament if it's broadly just a continuation of the status quo, albeit formally outside the EU? (The legislation to Leave having already been passed).

    My instinct is that the answer is "No" - but who knows?

    An interesting question. I suspect given parliament has quite rightly made a fuss on this issue, it cannot avoid in someway endorsing whatever position ends up being presented- hence why accidental no deal is such a real possibility since they might not endorse anything.
  • The first response seems reasonable if true:;
    "Yes, it's worrying, but 36 UKIP Councillors defecting to the Tories, when the Tories have 9,081 Councillors (0.004%) are hardly evidence of 'a far right takeover'."

    Now, let us wait for a tweet saying how many Labour councillors are raging anti-Semites like their party leader ... ;)
    0.004 OR 0.4%

    POT
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    welshowl said:

    FPT

    welshowl said:

    @Fysics_Teacher

    Quite possibly. Though myself and I believe Alanbrooke of this parish and others would not fit the stereotype.

    This stuff is important. We are surrounded every day by the culture of the Anglosphere. It’s so pervasive we don’t really see it as such. But there it is everyday, from the latest Hollywood movie, to ACDC in concert, to Game of Thrones, to the Indian Premier League, to Graham Norton’s sofa. I can almost hear the snorting amongst some that it’s all so low brow but that is the point: it’s popular.

    Now there’s fantastic stuff from Europe but 200k watching Spiral in French with subtitles on BBC4, or bilingual Moliere at the Donmar is a cultural peashooter against daily 21century shock and awe.

    Even here, look how we get fairly regular threads on US elections and we are all fairly au fait with who is who, and we all know who Malcolm Turnbull is, but a Swedish opinion poll pops up on their election in a couple of weeks, and most of us are puzzling over which party is which, and couldn’t really care very much. How many could name the Spanish PM straight off (even though he’s new)?

    There’s nothing wrong here with this, we are bound to be more interested in what we can understand (literally).

    That may be the answer to how we learn to love Europe: they promise to stop speaking languages we don’t understand and just use English instead. We’ll let them carry on driving on the wrong side of the road I suppose...
    How about a single European electric plug?
    Good point: another way Europe is somewhere else.
    It is a good point.

    But let’s all take a bet which way the Commission would want to harmonise things? Our better, safer plug to become standard? Thought not.


    There are two interesting precedents for this that I can think of :

    1. The move to 230v +/- 10, which standardised electrical power across Europe in a relatively sensible way.
    2. The harmonisation of summer and winter time across Europe, so everyone's clocks changed on the same day
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    edited August 2018

    @Jezziah - the threats and abuse hurled at these Labour women isn't from the far right. Its from Kali Ma worshippers

    The killer of Jo Cox was far right. The man who wanted to kill a Labour woman MP and was recently locked up had previously appeared in a BNP youth video. The man charged for abusing Luciana Berger before Corbyn became leader (but charged whilst he was leader) was far right, possibly a UKIP connection. The man who killed a Muslim in Corbyn's constituency but originally set out wanting to kill Corbyn was far right. A decent share of the abuse Abbott gets is from BNP type memes.

    I realise it works for little propaganda arguments and smearing your opponents but people who are in charge of these peoples security shouldn't get distracted by cheap political arguments but the actual threat instead.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    saddo said:

    IanB2 said:

    "Some predictions:

    1. In the end, the Tories won’t replace May."

    I disagree. There might not be any consensus as to a successor but there is a consensus that she shouldn't be allowed to fight another election. Whether Brexit-related or not, her time will come. If it comes as late as summer 2021 - by which time she'll be almost 65 - she'll have done six years as PM, which is not a bad run. Nick says several times that the Tories are exhausted. I don't think that's true but what is true is that there's no buccaneering domestic reform policy; Brexit is smothering everything. And May personally is running on empty. A new leader - if the right person - can bring about a revival that May cannot. As for timing, her political antennae are sufficiently poor that she'll do something at the wrong time to trigger the challenge if she opts not to stand down.


    "2. In the end, Labour will remain largely intact."

    I agree, as per yesterday's piece.

    "3. Something like UKIP will resurface."

    Actually, I think UKIP will resurface. It's brand is not terminally tarnished because almost no-one is paying it attention. It's never particularly been tarnished by scandal because people don't see it as a party for government or its leaders as candidates to be PM. It is, and will be, what it always has been: a vehicle to withdraw the UK from involvement in the EU.

    The question is more around Farage. He is the only successful leader that UKIP has ever had. In the absence of his return or of them finding someone similarly skilled (both unlikely, IMO), UKIP will remain little more than a generic protest vehicle and struggle in almost any circumstance to get above 7-8%. The wildcard here is Tory defections, though while entirely possible, the kind of potential defectors we might be talking about are not necessarily minor-party leadership material.

    On 1, consensus that May isn't up to another GE isn't sufficient, if there is no consensus as to who might be able to do better. The Tories' problem is that they need to be in opposition in order to widen the choice of who replaces her, yet she needs to be replaced whilst still in government.
    If Javid continues to deliver as Home Sec, here comes the UK's 1st brown skinned PM. For that reality, and his back story, he'd because total nightmare for a lefty labour party to campaign against.
    He's got a lot of history and baggage, check up on Private Eye passim....
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728

    The first response seems reasonable if true:;
    "Yes, it's worrying, but 36 UKIP Councillors defecting to the Tories, when the Tories have 9,081 Councillors (0.004%) are hardly evidence of 'a far right takeover'."

    Now, let us wait for a tweet saying how many Labour councillors are raging anti-Semites like their party leader ... ;)
    0.004 OR 0.4%

    POT
    What is two orders of magnitudes between friends? ;)

    But it still does not prove a 'far right takeover'.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,181
    Vinny said:

    I am sorry, but this post is so dull it could have been written by Hammond.
    Lots will happen. There will, this late Autumn, be a bust-up in Parliament if May tries to get the Chequers agreement through. It will not be supported by enough of the Tory right to get through the house. May will fall. There will be a new leader. It will not be Boris because he will not get past his colleagues. It will be Liddington, a Remainer. He will, with Hammond, reverse Brexit. There will be an election later. The Tories, bolstered by the boundary review, will be the only party capable of forming a government, given Corbyn and anti-semitism, and getting nowhere in Scotland.
    There. That's better than Nick Palmer's post, isn't it! Can I send in my invoice please?

    How on earth would the Tories be the less divided ones only able to form a government if they were persuing a policy of remain which is now anathema to significant party of it's membership?

    As headers go they don't have to be totally plausible, but I think they need to be more plausible than that!
  • William_HWilliam_H Posts: 346

    William_H said:

    MikeL said:

    So the question is this - can TMay design an "outcome" which doesn't actually need approval in Parliament if it's broadly just a continuation of the status quo, albeit formally outside the EU? (The legislation to Leave having already been passed).

    A referendum on withdrawal agreement is the cleanest way to bypass a final parliamentary showdown.
    A referendum would need parliamentary approval beforehand, so it wouldn't bypass a showdown.
    Almost impossible to imagine Labour voting against it though.
    Depends what the outcome of rejecting the deal is.

    I don't think a Deal or No Deal referendum gets through parliament - too much risk of people voting for No Deal. Deal or Remain probably would, but might break her party.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    edited August 2018

    welshowl said:


    But at the same time I happen to think the links that bind us to the Anglosphere are stronger in the everyday than those that link us to the continent. It’s not absolute course, I prefer the Champions League (to continue on sport) than the NFL let alone baseball (rounders!).

    But at heart I’m more AC/DC than The Scorpions, more Mad Men than les Revenants so to speak.

    It's true up to a point, and as you say the media prefer to broadcast someone who they don't need to translate. But as you're proving it by example, wouldn't you say that more people know who Merkel and Juncker and Barnier are than Mike Pence or Julia Gillard? Culturally, it's certainly true that we consume far more American movies and TV than from anywhere else. But that's specifically America, the home of fashionable pop culture for much of Europe too - I can't remember the last time I saw a movie or TV drama from Australia or New Zealand, and just one Indian movie.

    Vaguely relevantly, I had a discussion on Friday with someone at the New Zealand High Commission. He said he thought that Australia was becoming more distant and closer to the USA, while New Zealand was become closer to Europe.
    Priscilla Queen of the Desert. A real hoot of a movie from Oz. There’s one. In its day Neighbours was watched by millions daily in a way no European soap is going to be here.

    Yes it’s not black and white all this, it’s grey. I’ve no doubt the three you mention are better known than Gillard and Pence, but it’s been wall to wall Brexit for two and a half years now, so it’s not surprising. But Trudeau is far better known (a relative term mind!) than the Spanish PM.

    It’s all personal. I believe you speak fluent Danish. That will give you a perspective denied to others. You have perfect access to Scandinavia in a way I do not. You probably can make out a fair bit of Germans and Dutch too ( at least written?) Clegg is in a similar position, as is Grieve, as is I believe Brake the Lib Dem spokesman on Brexit. But don’t forget the vast vast majority of us do not have that perspective and that too colours our view. Not necessarily well or badly, but it means we may see the same things through different strength lenses so to speak.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    edited August 2018

    Floater said:
    So a security outfit got in touch with the MPs to offer their services and the Telegraph has laid off any journalist who can tell the difference between a press release and an advert.
    Odd how you forget that MPs - and yes, even a Labour one - have been attacked by non right-wingers in recent times:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Timms#Murder_attempt
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Jones,_Baron_Jones_of_Cheltenham#Attack

    But they don't scount in your rant, obviously ...
    So an Islamic extremists and a man who was mentally unfit to stand trial... what the hell has this got to do with my point?

    If you think my post was about how only right wing people are evil and only they do political attacks then you misread it.

    My post was pointing out that the far right don't like Labour. I also didn't mention the murders of several bank tellers over the same period, because that also has nothing to do with negative or positive feelings of the far right towards Labour.

    But yes I do imagine Islamic extremists probably hate Labour and the other political parties as well, also I imagine people who are so mentally ill they cannot stand trial are capable of hating all kinds of political parties. This has nothing to do with the far right hating Labour though which was my point.

    I'm not even making a far right = right wing = Tory or Tory supporters connection, I am talking about the far right, people who nobody (or barely anybody) here would actually support or vouch for.

  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    rcs1000 said:

    welshowl said:

    FPT

    welshowl said:

    @Fysics_Teacher

    Quite possibly. Though myself and I believe Alanbrooke of this parish and others would not fit the stereotype.

    This stuff is important. We are surrounded every day by the culture of the Anglosphere. It’s so pervasive we don’t really see it as such. But there it is everyday, from the latest Hollywood movie, to ACDC in concert, to Game of Thrones, to the Indian Premier League, to Graham Norton’s sofa. I can almost hear the snorting amongst some that it’s all so low brow but that is the point: it’s popular.

    Now there’s fantastic stuff from Europe but 200k watching Spiral in French with subtitles on BBC4, or bilingual Moliere at the Donmar is a cultural peashooter against daily 21century shock and awe.

    Even here, look how we get fairly regular threads on US elections and we are all fairly au fait with who is who, and we all know who Malcolm Turnbull is, but a Swedish opinion poll pops up on their election in a couple of weeks, and most of us are puzzling over which party is which, and couldn’t really care very much. How many could name the Spanish PM straight off (even though he’s new)?

    There’s nothing wrong here with this, we are bound to be more interested in what we can understand (literally).

    That may be the answer to how we learn to love Europe: they promise to stop speaking languages we don’t understand and just use English instead. We’ll let them carry on driving on the wrong side of the road I suppose...
    How about a single European electric plug?
    Good point: another way Europe is somewhere else.
    It is a good point.

    But let’s all take a bet which way the Commission would want to harmonise things? Our better, safer plug to become standard? Thought not.


    There are two interesting precedents for this that I can think of :

    1. The move to 230v +/- 10, which standardised electrical power across Europe in a relatively sensible way.
    2. The harmonisation of summer and winter time across Europe, so everyone's clocks changed on the same day
    Actually I think we should adopt European time. Much better use of light. If farmers in Lerwick whinge well Sturgeon can have her own time done in the Winter.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    F1: post-race analysis now up:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2018/08/belgium-post-race-analysis-2018.html

    Essentially, a dramatic crash on the first lap and then not much happened.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,752
    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:


    But at the same time I happen to think the links that bind us to the Anglosphere are stronger in the everyday than those that link us to the continent. It’s not absolute course, I prefer the Champions League (to continue on sport) than the NFL let alone baseball (rounders!).

    But at heart I’m more AC/DC than The Scorpions, more Mad Men than les Revenants so to speak.

    It's true up to a point, and as you say the media prefer to broadcast someone who they don't need to translate. But as you're proving it by example, wouldn't you say that more people know who Merkel and Juncker and Barnier are than Mike Pence or Julia Gillard? Culturally, it's certainly true that we consume far more American movies and TV than from anywhere else. But that's specifically America, the home of fashionable pop culture for much of Europe too - I can't remember the last time I saw a movie or TV drama from Australia or New Zealand, and just one Indian movie.

    Vaguely relevantly, I had a discussion on Friday with someone at the New Zealand High Commission. He said he thought that Australia was becoming more distant and closer to the USA, while New Zealand was become closer to Europe.
    Priscilla Queen of the Desert. A real hoot of a movie from Oz. There’s one. In its day Neighbours was watched by millions daily in a way no European soap is going to be here.
    Nordic Noir series have been big hits on UK TV in recent years. Many of the most successful franchises have been Dutch such as Big Brother, Deal or No Deal, etc.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    The first response seems reasonable if true:;
    "Yes, it's worrying, but 36 UKIP Councillors defecting to the Tories, when the Tories have 9,081 Councillors (0.004%) are hardly evidence of 'a far right takeover'."

    Now, let us wait for a tweet saying how many Labour councillors are raging anti-Semites like their party leader ... ;)
    0.004 OR 0.4%

    POT
    What is two orders of magnitudes between friends? ;)

    But it still does not prove a 'far right takeover'.
    Is "orders of magnitude" a useful measure of anything, seeing as how it's base-dependent? Everything's an oom in binary, while it's a really big deal in hexadecimal.
  • The first response seems reasonable if true:;
    "Yes, it's worrying, but 36 UKIP Councillors defecting to the Tories, when the Tories have 9,081 Councillors (0.004%) are hardly evidence of 'a far right takeover'."

    Now, let us wait for a tweet saying how many Labour councillors are raging anti-Semites like their party leader ... ;)
    0.004 OR 0.4%

    POT
    What is two orders of magnitudes between friends? ;)

    But it still does not prove a 'far right takeover'.
    No, it doen’t. Errors like that irritate me though. I see enough of that in the Guardian...
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:


    But at the same time I happen to think the links that bind us to the Anglosphere are stronger in the everyday than those that link us to the continent. It’s not absolute course, I prefer the Champions League (to continue on sport) than the NFL let alone baseball (rounders!).

    But at heart I’m more AC/DC than The Scorpions, more Mad Men than les Revenants so to speak.

    It's true up to a point, and as you say the media prefer to broadcast someone who they don't need to translate. But as you're proving it by example, wouldn't you say that more people know who Merkel and Juncker and Barnier are than Mike Pence or Julia Gillard? Culturally, it's certainly true that we consume far more American movies and TV than from anywhere else. But that's specifically America, the home of fashionable pop culture for much of Europe too - I can't remember the last time I saw a movie or TV drama from Australia or New Zealand, and just one Indian movie.

    Vaguely relevantly, I had a discussion on Friday with someone at the New Zealand High Commission. He said he thought that Australia was becoming more distant and closer to the USA, while New Zealand was become closer to Europe.
    Priscilla Queen of the Desert. A real hoot of a movie from Oz. There’s one. In its day Neighbours was watched by millions daily in a way no European soap is going to be here.
    Nordic Noir series have been big hits on UK TV in recent years. Many of the most successful franchises have been Dutch such as Big Brother, Deal or No Deal, etc.
    As I said it’s grey (not noir - boom tish).

    But Nordic noir might get the middle classes settling in all hygga with a glass of Rioja, but it ain’t millions watching the latest from Ramsey St.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Ishmael_Z said:

    The first response seems reasonable if true:;
    "Yes, it's worrying, but 36 UKIP Councillors defecting to the Tories, when the Tories have 9,081 Councillors (0.004%) are hardly evidence of 'a far right takeover'."

    Now, let us wait for a tweet saying how many Labour councillors are raging anti-Semites like their party leader ... ;)
    0.004 OR 0.4%

    POT
    What is two orders of magnitudes between friends? ;)

    But it still does not prove a 'far right takeover'.
    Is "orders of magnitude" a useful measure of anything, seeing as how it's base-dependent? Everything's an oom in binary, while it's a really big deal in hexadecimal.
    It's a fair assumption that anyone using it will be talking about base 10.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728

    So an Islamic extremists and a man who was mentally unfit to stand trial... what the hell has this got to do with my point?

    Ahem. Your first line: "Also I am pretty sure Labour MPs, particularly the women, have been stepping up efforts to get security since the far right started killing (or trying to) them. "

    It's easy to argue that all MP's, of whatever gender and from whatever party, would have been stepping up security since the earlier attacks, and would have realised that the threats they face are not just from right-wingers, as the history sadly shows. But those tragic cases can be ignored as they don't fit into your worldview.

    If you think my post was about how only right wing people are evil and only they do political attacks then you misread it.

    Then you should write clearer posts, as yours was just a bile-filled rant about hate-filled right-wingers when, as history shows, the threats are much more multi-faceted. And can even come from rabid supporters of the anti-Semitic douchebag who leads your party.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,044

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:


    But at the same time I happen to think the links that bind us to the Anglosphere are stronger in the everyday than those that link us to the continent. It’s not absolute course, I prefer the Champions League (to continue on sport) than the NFL let alone baseball (rounders!).

    But at heart I’m more AC/DC than The Scorpions, more Mad Men than les Revenants so to speak.

    It's true up to a point, and as you say the media prefer to broadcast someone who they don't need to translate. But as you're proving it by example, wouldn't you say that more people know who Merkel and Juncker and Barnier are than Mike Pence or Julia Gillard? Culturally, it's certainly true that we consume far more American movies and TV than from anywhere else. But that's specifically America, the home of fashionable pop culture for much of Europe too - I can't remember the last time I saw a movie or TV drama from Australia or New Zealand, and just one Indian movie.

    Vaguely relevantly, I had a discussion on Friday with someone at the New Zealand High Commission. He said he thought that Australia was becoming more distant and closer to the USA, while New Zealand was become closer to Europe.
    Priscilla Queen of the Desert. A real hoot of a movie from Oz. There’s one. In its day Neighbours was watched by millions daily in a way no European soap is going to be here.
    Nordic Noir series have been big hits on UK TV in recent years. Many of the most successful franchises have been Dutch such as Big Brother, Deal or No Deal, etc.
    There's always been a market for Dutch and Swedish 'entertainment' in the UK.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728

    The first response seems reasonable if true:;
    "Yes, it's worrying, but 36 UKIP Councillors defecting to the Tories, when the Tories have 9,081 Councillors (0.004%) are hardly evidence of 'a far right takeover'."

    Now, let us wait for a tweet saying how many Labour councillors are raging anti-Semites like their party leader ... ;)
    0.004 OR 0.4%

    POT
    What is two orders of magnitudes between friends? ;)

    But it still does not prove a 'far right takeover'.
    No, it doen’t. Errors like that irritate me though. I see enough of that in the Guardian...
    Indeed, I should have performed a quick sanity-check of the tweet. Apologies.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    So an Islamic extremists and a man who was mentally unfit to stand trial... what the hell has this got to do with my point?

    Ahem. Your first line: "Also I am pretty sure Labour MPs, particularly the women, have been stepping up efforts to get security since the far right started killing (or trying to) them. "

    It's easy to argue that all MP's, of whatever gender and from whatever party, would have been stepping up security since the earlier attacks, and would have realised that the threats they face are not just from right-wingers, as the history sadly shows. But those tragic cases can be ignored as they don't fit into your worldview.

    If you think my post was about how only right wing people are evil and only they do political attacks then you misread it.

    Then you should write clearer posts, as yours was just a bile-filled rant about hate-filled right-wingers when, as history shows, the threats are much more multi-faceted. And can even come from rabid supporters of the anti-Semitic douchebag who leads your party.
    oh well said that man
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728
    Ishmael_Z said:

    The first response seems reasonable if true:;
    "Yes, it's worrying, but 36 UKIP Councillors defecting to the Tories, when the Tories have 9,081 Councillors (0.004%) are hardly evidence of 'a far right takeover'."

    Now, let us wait for a tweet saying how many Labour councillors are raging anti-Semites like their party leader ... ;)
    0.004 OR 0.4%

    POT
    What is two orders of magnitudes between friends? ;)

    But it still does not prove a 'far right takeover'.
    Is "orders of magnitude" a useful measure of anything, seeing as how it's base-dependent? Everything's an oom in binary, while it's a really big deal in hexadecimal.
    It's easy:

    One order of magnitude = wrong.
    Two orders of magnitude: really wrong.
    Three orders of magnitude = stupidly wrong.
    Four orders of magnitude = you're embarrassing yourself, please go home.
    Five orders of magnitude = LOL.

    :)
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Fenman said:

    To coin a phrase, I don't agree with Nick.

    The only satisfying thing is that Corbyn doesn't have any kind of majority or is likely to have, to introduce radical socialism .......
    ..

    You hope .........
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited August 2018

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:


    But at the same time I happen to think the links that bind us to the Anglosphere are stronger in the everyday than those that link us to the continent. It’s not absolute course, I prefer the Champions League (to continue on sport) than the NFL let alone baseball (rounders!).

    But at heart I’m more AC/DC than The Scorpions, more Mad Men than les Revenants so to speak.

    It's true up to a point, and as you say the media prefer to broadcast someone who they don't need to translate. But as you're proving it by example, wouldn't you say that more people know who Merkel and Juncker and Barnier are than Mike Pence or Julia Gillard? Culturally, it's certainly true that we consume far more American movies and TV than from anywhere else. But that's specifically America, the home of fashionable pop culture for much of Europe too - I can't remember the last time I saw a movie or TV drama from Australia or New Zealand, and just one Indian movie.

    Vaguely relevantly, I had a discussion on Friday with someone at the New Zealand High Commission. He said he thought that Australia was becoming more distant and closer to the USA, while New Zealand was become closer to Europe.
    Priscilla Queen of the Desert. A real hoot of a movie from Oz. There’s one. In its day Neighbours was watched by millions daily in a way no European soap is going to be here.
    Nordic Noir series have been big hits on UK TV in recent years. Many of the most successful franchises have been Dutch such as Big Brother, Deal or No Deal, etc.
    There's always been a market for Dutch and Swedish 'entertainment' in the UK.
    Porn doesn't count.

    Unless you're SeanT of course.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,752
    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:


    But at the same time I happen to think the links that bind us to the Anglosphere are stronger in the everyday than those that link us to the continent. It’s not absolute course, I prefer the Champions League (to continue on sport) than the NFL let alone baseball (rounders!).

    But at heart I’m more AC/DC than The Scorpions, more Mad Men than les Revenants so to speak.

    It's true up to a point, and as you say the media prefer to broadcast someone who they don't need to translate. But as you're proving it by example, wouldn't you say that more people know who Merkel and Juncker and Barnier are than Mike Pence or Julia Gillard? Culturally, it's certainly true that we consume far more American movies and TV than from anywhere else. But that's specifically America, the home of fashionable pop culture for much of Europe too - I can't remember the last time I saw a movie or TV drama from Australia or New Zealand, and just one Indian movie.

    Vaguely relevantly, I had a discussion on Friday with someone at the New Zealand High Commission. He said he thought that Australia was becoming more distant and closer to the USA, while New Zealand was become closer to Europe.
    Priscilla Queen of the Desert. A real hoot of a movie from Oz. There’s one. In its day Neighbours was watched by millions daily in a way no European soap is going to be here.
    Nordic Noir series have been big hits on UK TV in recent years. Many of the most successful franchises have been Dutch such as Big Brother, Deal or No Deal, etc.
    As I said it’s grey (not noir - boom tish).

    But Nordic noir might get the middle classes settling in all hygga with a glass of Rioja, but it ain’t millions watching the latest from Ramsey St.
    It ain't millions watching the latest from Ramsey St these days either. The cultural landscape is very different from what it was when we had 4 TV channels.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:


    But at the same time I happen to think the links that bind us to the Anglosphere are stronger in the everyday than those that link us to the continent. It’s not absolute course, I prefer the Champions League (to continue on sport) than the NFL let alone baseball (rounders!).

    But at heart I’m more AC/DC than The Scorpions, more Mad Men than les Revenants so to speak.

    It's true up to a point, and as you say the media prefer to broadcast someone who they don't need to translate. But as you're proving it by example, wouldn't you say that more people know who Merkel and Juncker and Barnier are than Mike Pence or Julia Gillard? Culturally, it's certainly true that we consume far more American movies and TV than from anywhere else. But that's specifically America, the home of fashionable pop culture for much of Europe too - I can't remember the last time I saw a movie or TV drama from Australia or New Zealand, and just one Indian movie.

    Vaguely relevantly, I had a discussion on Friday with someone at the New Zealand High Commission. He said he thought that Australia was becoming more distant and closer to the USA, while New Zealand was become closer to Europe.
    Priscilla Queen of the Desert. A real hoot of a movie from Oz. There’s one. In its day Neighbours was watched by millions daily in a way no European soap is going to be here.
    Nordic Noir series have been big hits on UK TV in recent years. Many of the most successful franchises have been Dutch such as Big Brother, Deal or No Deal, etc.
    As I said it’s grey (not noir - boom tish).

    But Nordic noir might get the middle classes settling in all hygga with a glass of Rioja, but it ain’t millions watching the latest from Ramsey St.
    It ain't millions watching the latest from Ramsey St these days either. The cultural landscape is very different from what it was when we had 4 TV channels.
    Yes of course. I was illustrating a point without resorting to looking up the latest viewing figures.

    I never watched it! Not even in the days of Kylie mind.
  • welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:


    But at the same time I happen to think the links that bind us to the Anglosphere are stronger in the everyday than those that link us to the continent. It’s not absolute course, I prefer the Champions League (to continue on sport) than the NFL let alone baseball (rounders!).

    But at heart I’m more AC/DC than The Scorpions, more Mad Men than les Revenants so to speak.

    It's true up to a point, and as you say the media prefer to broadcast someone who they don't need to translate. But as you're proving it by example, wouldn't you say that more people know who Merkel and Juncker and Barnier are than Mike Pence or Julia Gillard? Culturally, it's certainly true that we consume far more American movies and TV than from anywhere else. But that's specifically America, the home of fashionable pop culture for much of Europe too - I can't remember the last time I saw a movie or TV drama from Australia or New Zealand, and just one Indian movie.

    Vaguely relevantly, I had a discussion on Friday with someone at the New Zealand High Commission. He said he thought that Australia was becoming more distant and closer to the USA, while New Zealand was become closer to Europe.
    Priscilla Queen of the Desert. A real hoot of a movie from Oz. There’s one. In its day Neighbours was watched by millions daily in a way no European soap is going to be here.
    Nordic Noir series have been big hits on UK TV in recent years. Many of the most successful franchises have been Dutch such as Big Brother, Deal or No Deal, etc.
    As I said it’s grey (not noir - boom tish).

    But Nordic noir might get the middle classes settling in all hygga with a glass of Rioja, but it ain’t millions watching the latest from Ramsey St.
    It ain't millions watching the latest from Ramsey St these days either. The cultural landscape is very different from what it was when we had 4 TV channels.
    Quite so. Cricket is on Channel Five nowadays.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:


    But at the same time I happen to think the links that bind us to the Anglosphere are stronger in the everyday than those that link us to the continent. It’s not absolute course, I prefer the Champions League (to continue on sport) than the NFL let alone baseball (rounders!).

    But at heart I’m more AC/DC than The Scorpions, more Mad Men than les Revenants so to speak.

    It's true up to a point, and as you say the media prefer to broadcast someone who they don't need to translate. But as you're proving it by example, wouldn't you say that more people know who Merkel and Juncker and Barnier are than Mike Pence or Julia Gillard? Culturally, it's certainly true that we consume far more American movies and TV than from anywhere else. But that's specifically America, the home of fashionable pop culture for much of Europe too - I can't remember the last time I saw a movie or TV drama from Australia or New Zealand, and just one Indian movie.

    Vaguely relevantly, I had a discussion on Friday with someone at the New Zealand High Commission. He said he thought that Australia was becoming more distant and closer to the USA, while New Zealand was become closer to Europe.
    Priscilla Queen of the Desert. A real hoot of a movie from Oz. There’s one. In its day Neighbours was watched by millions daily in a way no European soap is going to be here.
    Nordic Noir series have been big hits on UK TV in recent years. Many of the most successful franchises have been Dutch such as Big Brother, Deal or No Deal, etc.
    As I said it’s grey (not noir - boom tish).

    But Nordic noir might get the middle classes settling in all hygga with a glass of Rioja, but it ain’t millions watching the latest from Ramsey St.
    It ain't millions watching the latest from Ramsey St these days either. The cultural landscape is very different from what it was when we had 4 TV channels.
    Quite so. Cricket is on Channel Five Sky nowadays because the ECB are stupid greedy bastards.
    Fixed it for you.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    F1: post-race analysis now up:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2018/08/belgium-post-race-analysis-2018.html

    Essentially, a dramatic crash on the first lap and then not much happened.

    As if we didn't have enough about that on here already.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. B2, Formula 1 is a bastion of delightful and civilised discourse amidst the bitter rancour of political dispute.
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    The first response seems reasonable if true:;
    "Yes, it's worrying, but 36 UKIP Councillors defecting to the Tories, when the Tories have 9,081 Councillors (0.004%) are hardly evidence of 'a far right takeover'."

    Now, let us wait for a tweet saying how many Labour councillors are raging anti-Semites like their party leader ... ;)
    0.004 OR 0.4%

    POT
    What is two orders of magnitudes between friends? ;)

    But it still does not prove a 'far right takeover'.
    Is "orders of magnitude" a useful measure of anything, seeing as how it's base-dependent? Everything's an oom in binary, while it's a really big deal in hexadecimal.
    It's easy:

    One order of magnitude = wrong.
    Two orders of magnitude: really wrong.
    Three orders of magnitude = stupidly wrong.
    Four orders of magnitude = you're embarrassing yourself, please go home.
    Five orders of magnitude = LOL.

    :)
    My own personal best was 68.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    rcs1000 said:

    welshowl said:

    FPT

    welshowl said:

    @Fysics_Teacher

    Quite possibly. Though myself and I believe Alanbrooke of this parish and others would not fit the stereotype.

    This stuff is important. We are surrounded every day by the culture of the Anglosphere. It’s so pervasive we don’t really see it as such. But there it is everyday, from the latest Hollywood movie, to ACDC in concert, to Game of Thrones, to the Indian Premier League, to Graham Norton’s sofa. I can almost hear the snorting amongst some that it’s all so low brow but that is the point: it’s popular.

    Now there’s fantastic stuff from Europe but 200k watching Spiral in French with subtitles on BBC4, or bilingual Moliere at the Donmar is a cultural peashooter against daily 21century shock and awe.

    Even here, look how we get fairly regular threads on US elections and we are all fairly au fait with who is who, and we all know who Malcolm Turnbull is, but a Swedish opinion poll pops up on their election in a couple of weeks, and most of us are puzzling over which party is which, and couldn’t really care very much. How many could name the Spanish PM straight off (even though he’s new)?

    There’s nothing wrong here with this, we are bound to be more interested in what we can understand (literally).

    That may be the answer to how we learn to love Europe: they promise to stop speaking languages we don’t understand and just use English instead. We’ll let them carry on driving on the wrong side of the road I suppose...
    How about a single European electric plug?
    Good point: another way Europe is somewhere else.
    It is a good point.

    But let’s all take a bet which way the Commission would want to harmonise things? Our better, safer plug to become standard? Thought not.


    There are two interesting precedents for this that I can think of :

    1. The move to 230v +/- 10, which standardised electrical power across Europe in a relatively sensible way.
    2. The harmonisation of summer and winter time across Europe, so everyone's clocks changed on the same day
    I am getting ready to head off to the German speaking Italian Alps, my Euro two-pin adapter retrieved from its lair deep in some drawer, only to hear that the sockets there are apparently three-pin?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    IanB2 said:

    F1: post-race analysis now up:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2018/08/belgium-post-race-analysis-2018.html

    Essentially, a dramatic crash on the first lap and then not much happened.

    As if we didn't have enough about that on here already.
    Brexit wasn't on the first lap. More like in the last five.

    Oh sorry, did you actually mean the motor racing?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    Mr. B2, Formula 1 is a bastion of delightful and civilised discourse amidst the bitter rancour of political dispute.

    It is, to be sure. But then anyone can say that there won't be a safety car...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    F1: post-race analysis now up:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2018/08/belgium-post-race-analysis-2018.html

    Essentially, a dramatic crash on the first lap and then not much happened.

    As if we didn't have enough about that on here already.
    Brexit wasn't on the first lap. More like in the last five.

    Oh sorry, did you actually mean the motor racing?
    Doesn't that depend on how and when the race ends?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:


    But at the same time I happen to think the links that bind us to the Anglosphere are stronger in the everyday than those that link us to the continent. It’s not absolute course, I prefer the Champions League (to continue on sport) than the NFL let alone baseball (rounders!).

    But at heart I’m more AC/DC than The Scorpions, more Mad Men than les Revenants so to speak.

    It's true up to a point, and as you say the media prefer to broadcast someone who they don't need to translate. But as you're proving it by example, wouldn't you say that more people know who Merkel and Juncker and Barnier are than Mike Pence or Julia Gillard? Culturally, it's certainly true that we consume far more American movies and TV than from anywhere else. But that's specifically America, the home of fashionable pop culture for much of Europe too - I can't remember the last time I saw a movie or TV drama from Australia or New Zealand, and just one Indian movie.

    Vaguely relevantly, I had a discussion on Friday with someone at the New Zealand High Commission. He said he thought that Australia was becoming more distant and closer to the USA, while New Zealand was become closer to Europe.
    Priscilla Queen of the Desert. A real hoot of a movie from Oz. There’s one. In its day Neighbours was watched by millions daily in a way no European soap is going to be here.
    Nordic Noir series have been big hits on UK TV in recent years. Many of the most successful franchises have been Dutch such as Big Brother, Deal or No Deal, etc.
    As I said it’s grey (not noir - boom tish).

    But Nordic noir might get the middle classes settling in all hygga with a glass of Rioja, but it ain’t millions watching the latest from Ramsey St.
    It ain't millions watching the latest from Ramsey St these days either. The cultural landscape is very different from what it was when we had 4 TV channels.
    Quite so. Cricket is on Channel Five nowadays.
    Best place for it. Anyone desperate enough to surf across as far as Channel Five deserves to be bored.
  • British Somali teenagers are being taken back to their parents’ homeland under the pretence of a holiday and then kept in detention centres before being forced into marriages.

    Under the practice of dhaqan celis, loosely translated as “the rehabilitation community”, Somali children and teenagers are routinely taken to the country, where they are often sent to “rehabilitation” centres.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/aug/26/british-somali-teenagers-taken-on-holiday-only-to-be-forced-into-marriage

    The parents of the Somali children must think their children are better off in a Somali culture than a Btitish culture.

    Or they are selling off their children.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,752
    edited August 2018
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    F1: post-race analysis now up:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2018/08/belgium-post-race-analysis-2018.html

    Essentially, a dramatic crash on the first lap and then not much happened.

    As if we didn't have enough about that on here already.
    Brexit wasn't on the first lap. More like in the last five.

    Oh sorry, did you actually mean the motor racing?
    If Brexit is Formula One, then May is the safety car.
  • Mr. B2, Formula 1 is a bastion of delightful and civilised discourse amidst the bitter rancour of political dispute.

    Brexit is like Luca Badoer
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    welshowl said:

    rcs1000 said:

    welshowl said:

    FPT

    welshowl said:

    @Fysics_Teacher

    Quite possibly. Though myself and I believe Alanbrooke of this parish and others would not fit the stereotype.

    This stuff is important. We are surrounded every day by the culture of the Anglosphere. It’s so pervasive we don’t really see it as such. But there it is everyday, from the latest Hollywood movie, to ACDC in concert, to Game of Thrones, to the Indian Premier League, to Graham Norton’s sofa. I can almost hear the snorting amongst some that it’s all so low brow but that is the point: it’s popular.

    Now there’s fantastic stuff from Europe but 200k watching Spiral in French with subtitles on BBC4, or bilingual Moliere at the Donmar is a cultural peashooter against daily 21century shock and awe.

    Even here, look how we get fairly regular threads on US elections and we are all fairly au fait with who is who, and we all know who Malcolm Turnbull is, but a Swedish opinion poll pops up on their election in a couple of weeks, and most of us are puzzling over which party is which, and couldn’t really care very much. How many could name the Spanish PM straight off (even though he’s new)?

    There’s nothing wrong here with this, we are bound to be more interested in what we can understand (literally).

    That may be the answer to how we learn to love Europe: they promise to stop speaking languages we don’t understand and just use English instead. We’ll let them carry on driving on the wrong side of the road I suppose...
    How about a single European electric plug?
    Good point: another way Europe is somewhere else.
    It is a good point.

    But let’s all take a bet which way the Commission would want to harmonise things? Our better, safer plug to become standard? Thought not.


    There are two interesting precedents for this that I can think of :

    1. The move to 230v +/- 10, which standardised electrical power across Europe in a relatively sensible way.
    2. The harmonisation of summer and winter time across Europe, so everyone's clocks changed on the same day
    Actually I think we should adopt European time. Much better use of light. If farmers in Lerwick whinge well Sturgeon can have her own time done in the Winter.
    But what about plug sockets? They should be standardised across the EU
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840

    So an Islamic extremists and a man who was mentally unfit to stand trial... what the hell has this got to do with my point?

    Ahem. Your first line: "Also I am pretty sure Labour MPs, particularly the women, have been stepping up efforts to get security since the far right started killing (or trying to) them. "

    It's easy to argue that all MP's, of whatever gender and from whatever party, would have been stepping up security since the earlier attacks, and would have realised that the threats they face are not just from right-wingers, as the history sadly shows. But those tragic cases can be ignored as they don't fit into your worldview.

    If you think my post was about how only right wing people are evil and only they do political attacks then you misread it.

    Then you should write clearer posts, as yours was just a bile-filled rant about hate-filled right-wingers when, as history shows, the threats are much more multi-faceted. And can even come from rabid supporters of the anti-Semitic douchebag who leads your party.
    You should learn to read properly, the post clearly said far right. In fact as you pointed out my first line said far right. I cannot be held responsible for you not reading what was in the very first line!

    Also some Labour MPs did step up their security or seriously thought about it after the Jo Cox incident. I realise this doesn't fit into your simplistic world view but facts often conflict with people's fantasies.

    Starting to sound a little angry in the last paragraph, the far right types get a bit like that about Labour MPs.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. B2, I didn't say there wouldn't be a safety car. And there was one.
  • welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:


    But at the same time I happen to think the links that bind us to the Anglosphere are stronger in the everyday than those that link us to the continent. It’s not absolute course, I prefer the Champions League (to continue on sport) than the NFL let alone baseball (rounders!).

    But at heart I’m more AC/DC than The Scorpions, more Mad Men than les Revenants so to speak.

    It's true up to a point, and as you say the media prefer to broadcast someone who they don't need to translate. But as you're proving it by example, wouldn't you say that more people know who Merkel and Juncker and Barnier are than Mike Pence or Julia Gillard? Culturally, it's certainly true that we consume far more American movies and TV than from anywhere else. But that's specifically America, the home of fashionable pop culture for much of Europe too - I can't remember the last time I saw a movie or TV drama from Australia or New Zealand, and just one Indian movie.

    Vaguely relevantly, I had a discussion on Friday with someone at the New Zealand High Commission. He said he thought that Australia was becoming more distant and closer to the USA, while New Zealand was become closer to Europe.
    Priscilla Queen of the Desert. A real hoot of a movie from Oz. There’s one. In its day Neighbours was watched by millions daily in a way no European soap is going to be here.
    Nordic Noir series have been big hits on UK TV in recent years. Many of the most successful franchises have been Dutch such as Big Brother, Deal or No Deal, etc.
    As I said it’s grey (not noir - boom tish).

    But Nordic noir might get the middle classes settling in all hygga with a glass of Rioja, but it ain’t millions watching the latest from Ramsey St.
    It ain't millions watching the latest from Ramsey St these days either. The cultural landscape is very different from what it was when we had 4 TV channels.
    Yes of course. I was illustrating a point without resorting to looking up the latest viewing figures.

    I never watched it! Not even in the days of Kylie mind.
    Watch it every night. Been on the set and met some of the cast

    Happy memories of Melbourne
  • welshowl said:

    rcs1000 said:

    welshowl said:

    FPT

    welshowl said:

    @Fysics_Teacher

    Quite possibly. Though myself and I believe Alanbrooke of this parish and others would not fit the stereotype.

    This stuff is important. We are surrounded every day by the culture of the Anglosphere. It’s so pervasive we don’t really see it as such. But there it is everyday, from the latest Hollywood movie, to ACDC in concert, to Game of Thrones, to the Indian Premier League, to Graham Norton’s sofa. I can almost hear the snorting amongst some that it’s all so low brow but that is the point: it’s popular.

    Now there’s fantastic stuff from Europe but 200k watching Spiral in French with subtitles on BBC4, or bilingual Moliere at the Donmar is a cultural peashooter against daily 21century shock and awe.

    Even here, look how we get fairly regular threads on US elections and we are all fairly au fait with who is who, and we all know who Malcolm Turnbull is, but a Swedish opinion poll pops up on their election in a couple of weeks, and most of us are puzzling over which party is which, and couldn’t really care very much. How many could name the Spanish PM straight off (even though he’s new)?

    There’s nothing wrong here with this, we are bound to be more interested in what we can understand (literally).

    That may be the answer to how we learn to love Europe: they promise to stop speaking languages we don’t understand and just use English instead. We’ll let them carry on driving on the wrong side of the road I suppose...
    How about a single European electric plug?
    Good point: another way Europe is somewhere else.
    It is a good point.

    But let’s all take a bet which way the Commission would want to harmonise things? Our better, safer plug to become standard? Thought not.


    There are two interesting precedents for this that I can think of :

    1. The move to 230v +/- 10, which standardised electrical power across Europe in a relatively sensible way.
    2. The harmonisation of summer and winter time across Europe, so everyone's clocks changed on the same day
    Actually I think we should adopt European time. Much better use of light. If farmers in Lerwick whinge well Sturgeon can have her own time done in the Winter.
    But what about plug sockets? They should be standardised across the EU
    Not an argument guaranteed to persuade the wavering to reject Brexit I fear.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    edited August 2018

    Mr. B2, I didn't say there wouldn't be a safety car. And there was one.

    congratualtions. Of sorts.
  • Unless the EU adopts our superior design of course. What do you think would be the chance of that?
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    welshowl said:

    rcs1000 said:

    welshowl said:

    FPT

    welshowl said:

    @Fysics_Teacher

    Quite possibly. Though myself and I believe Alanbrooke of this parish and others would not fit the stereotype.

    This stuff is important. We are surrounded every day by the culture of the Anglosphere. It’s so pervasive we don’t really see it as such. But there it is everyday, from the latest Hollywood movie, to ACDC in concert, to Game of Thrones, to the Indian Premier League, to Graham Norton’s sofa. I can almost hear the snorting amongst some that it’s all so low brow but that is the point: it’s popular.

    Now there’s fantastic stuff from Europe but 200k watching Spiral in French with subtitles on BBC4, or bilingual Moliere at the Donmar is a cultural peashooter against daily 21century shock and awe.

    Even here, look how we get fairly regular threads on US elections and we are all fairly au fait with who is who, and we all know who Malcolm Turnbull is, but a Swedish opinion poll pops up on their election in a couple of weeks, and most of us are puzzling over which party is which, and couldn’t really care very much. How many could name the Spanish PM straight off (even though he’s new)?

    There’s nothing wrong here with this, we are bound to be more interested in what we can understand (literally).

    That may be the answer to how we learn to love Europe: they promise to stop speaking languages we don’t understand and just use English instead. We’ll let them carry on driving on the wrong side of the road I suppose...
    How about a single European electric plug?
    Good point: another way Europe is somewhere else.
    It is a good point.

    But let’s all take a bet which way the Commission would want to harmonise things? Our better, safer plug to become standard? Thought not.


    There are two interesting precedents for this that I can think of :

    1. The move to 230v +/- 10, which standardised electrical power across Europe in a relatively sensible way.
    2. The harmonisation of summer and winter time across Europe, so everyone's clocks changed on the same day
    Actually I think we should adopt European time. Much better use of light. If farmers in Lerwick whinge well Sturgeon can have her own time done in the Winter.
    But what about plug sockets? They should be standardised across the EU
    Nah. Paint manufacturers and decorators Christmases all at once. I don’t fancy having holes in all the walls of the house to convert. Should we drive on the right too?
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    Unless the EU adopts our superior design of course. What do you think would be the chance of that?

    Less than Cable joining the ERG.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,044

    welshowl said:

    rcs1000 said:

    welshowl said:

    FPT

    welshowl said:

    @Fysics_Teacher

    Quite possibly. Though myself and I believe Alanbrooke of this parish and others would not fit the stereotype.

    This stuff is important. We are surrounded every day by the culture of the Anglosphere. It’s so pervasive we don’t really see it as such. But there it is everyday, from the latest Hollywood movie, to ACDC in concert, to Game of Thrones, to the Indian Premier League, to Graham Norton’s sofa. I can almost hear the snorting amongst some that it’s all so low brow but that is the point: it’s popular.

    Now there’s fantastic stuff from Europe but 200k watching Spiral in French with subtitles on BBC4, or bilingual Moliere at the Donmar is a cultural peashooter against daily 21century shock and awe.

    Even here, look how we get fairly regular threads on US elections and we are all fairly au fait with who is who, and we all know who Malcolm Turnbull is, but a Swedish opinion poll pops up on their election in a couple of weeks, and most of us are puzzling over which party is which, and couldn’t really care very much. How many could name the Spanish PM straight off (even though he’s new)?

    There’s nothing wrong here with this, we are bound to be more interested in what we can understand (literally).

    That may be the answer to how we learn to love Europe: they promise to stop speaking languages we don’t understand and just use English instead. We’ll let them carry on driving on the wrong side of the road I suppose...
    How about a single European electric plug?
    Good point: another way Europe is somewhere else.
    It is a good point.

    But let’s all take a bet which way the Commission would want to harmonise things? Our better, safer plug to become standard? Thought not.


    There are two interesting precedents for this that I can think of :

    1. The move to 230v +/- 10, which standardised electrical power across Europe in a relatively sensible way.
    2. The harmonisation of summer and winter time across Europe, so everyone's clocks changed on the same day
    Actually I think we should adopt European time. Much better use of light. If farmers in Lerwick whinge well Sturgeon can have her own time done in the Winter.
    But what about plug sockets? They should be standardised across the EU
    We can standardise the sockets, as long as we get to keep different plugs...
  • @Jezziah: you're talking bollocks and you know you're talking bollocks. Talk to a female Labour MP. Jess Phillips. Stella Creasy. Anna Turley. Lisa Nandy. Luciana Berger to name a few. Ann Black on the NEC whilst youre at it. Talk to their staff.

    The abuse and the threats come from Labour "supporters" who actively or unintentionally find themselves part of the "he's the Jezziah!" personality cult. You cannot ask questions of the deity, so anyone who does gets abused.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728

    So an Islamic extremists and a man who was mentally unfit to stand trial... what the hell has this got to do with my point?

    Ahem. Your first line: "Also I am pretty sure Labour MPs, particularly the women, have been stepping up efforts to get security since the far right started killing (or trying to) them. "

    It's easy to argue that all MP's, of whatever gender and from whatever party, would have been stepping up security since the earlier attacks, and would have realised that the threats they face are not just from right-wingers, as the history sadly shows. But those tragic cases can be ignored as they don't fit into your worldview.

    If you think my post was about how only right wing people are evil and only they do political attacks then you misread it.

    Then you should write clearer posts, as yours was just a bile-filled rant about hate-filled right-wingers when, as history shows, the threats are much more multi-faceted. And can even come from rabid supporters of the anti-Semitic douchebag who leads your party.
    You should learn to read properly, the post clearly said far right. In fact as you pointed out my first line said far right. I cannot be held responsible for you not reading what was in the very first line!

    Also some Labour MPs did step up their security or seriously thought about it after the Jo Cox incident. I realise this doesn't fit into your simplistic world view but facts often conflict with people's fantasies.

    Starting to sound a little angry in the last paragraph, the far right types get a bit like that about Labour MPs.
    I can read, thanks. And you utterly miss my point.

    "Starting to sound a little angry in the last paragraph, the far right types get a bit like that about Labour MPs."

    LOL. If I'm 'far right' then goodness knows how you see many of the other posters on here!

    Then again, far left defenders of anti-Semitic docuhebags do tend to see anyone who does not pray to a golden idol of Corbyn three times a day as 'far right'. Including Labour MPs ...:)
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,044
    We need to standardise light switches too.

    In the UK they go 'click' while in France they go 'tac'.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    welshowl said:


    Nah. Paint manufacturers and decorators Christmases all at once. I don’t fancy having holes in all the walls of the house to convert. Should we drive on the right too?

    The first President of Ghana famously said that his country would switch to driving on the right, but 'gradually' to avoid disruption.

    And remember from next year the only EU country that does not use the type of socket common to every other EU country will be Ireland.
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047
    First single I purchased, age 12
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    rcs1000 said:

    welshowl said:

    FPT

    welshowl said:

    @Fysics_Teacher



    Now there’s fantastic stuff from Europe but 200k watching Spiral in French with subtitles on BBC4, or bilingual Moliere at the Donmar is a cultural peashooter against daily 21century shock and awe.

    Even here, look how we get fairly regular threads on US elections and we are all fairly au fait with who is who, and we all know who Malcolm Turnbull is, but a Swedish opinion poll pops up on their election in a couple of weeks, and most of us are puzzling over which party is which, and couldn’t really care very much. How many could name the Spanish PM straight off (even though he’s new)?

    There’s nothing wrong here with this, we are bound to be more interested in what we can understand (literally).

    That may be the answer to how we learn to love Europe: they promise to stop speaking languages we don’t understand and just use English instead. We’ll let them carry on driving on the wrong side of the road I suppose...
    How about a single European electric plug?
    Good point: another way Europe is somewhere else.
    It is a good point.

    But let’s all take a bet which way the Commission would want to harmonise things? Our better, safer plug to become standard? Thought not.


    There are two interesting precedents for this that I can think of :

    1. The move to 230v +/- 10, which standardised electrical power across Europe in a relatively sensible way.
    2. The harmonisation of summer and winter time across Europe, so everyone's clocks changed on the same day
    Actually I think we should adopt European time. Much better use of light. If farmers in Lerwick whinge well Sturgeon can have her own time done in the Winter.
    But what about plug sockets? They should be standardised across the EU
    Nah. Paint manufacturers and decorators Christmases all at once. I don’t fancy having holes in all the walls of the house to convert. Should we drive on the right too?
    No need to change the hole - just [switch of the supply first of course!, then] remove the socket from the wall box and replace with a euro standard socket... which, trust me, will be readily available to fit into existing wall boxes, once we adopt a euro socket standard.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    welshowl said:

    FPT

    welshowl said:

    @Fysics_Teacher

    Quite possibly. Though myself and I believe Alanbrooke of this parish and others would not fit the stereotype.

    This stuff is important. We are surrounded every day by the culture of the Anglosphere. It’s so pervasive we don’t really see it as such. But there it is everyday, from the latest Hollywood movie, to ACDC in concert, to Game of Thrones, to the Indian Premier League, to Graham Norton’s sofa. I can almost hear the snorting amongst some that it’s all so low brow but that is the point: it’s popular.

    Now there’s fantastic stuff from Europe but 200k watching Spiral in French with subtitles on BBC4, or bilingual Moliere at the Donmar is a cultural peashooter against daily 21century shock and awe.

    Even here, look how we get fairly regular threads on US elections and we are all fairly au fait with who is who, and we all know who Malcolm Turnbull is, but a Swedish opinion poll pops up on their election in a couple of weeks, and most of us are puzzling over which party is which, and couldn’t really care very much. How many could name the Spanish PM straight off (even though he’s new)?

    There’s nothing wrong here with this, we are bound to be more interested in what we can understand (literally).

    That may be the answer to how we learn to love Europe: they promise to stop speaking languages we don’t understand and just use English instead. We’ll let them carry on driving on the wrong side of the road I suppose...
    How about a single European electric plug?
    Good point: another way Europe is somewhere else.
    It is a good point.

    But let’s all take a bet which way the Commission would want to harmonise things? Our better, safer plug to become standard? Thought not.


    There are two interesting precedents for this that I can think of :

    1. The move to 230v +/- 10, which standardised electrical power across Europe in a relatively sensible way.
    2. The harmonisation of summer and winter time across Europe, so everyone's clocks changed on the same day
    I am getting ready to head off to the German speaking Italian Alps, my Euro two-pin adapter retrieved from its lair deep in some drawer, only to hear that the sockets there are apparently three-pin?
    The two pin plugs fit the three pin sockets.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,749

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    rcs1000 said:

    welshowl said:

    FPT

    welshowl said:

    @Fysics_Teacher



    Now there’s fantastic stuff from Europe but 200k watching Spiral in French with subtitles on BBC4, or bilingual Moliere at the Donmar is a cultural peashooter against daily 21century shock and awe.

    Even here, look how we get fairly regular threads on US elections and we are all fairly au fait with who is who, and we all know who Malcolm Turnbull is, but a Swedish opinion poll pops up on their election in a couple of weeks, and most of us are puzzling over which party is which, and couldn’t really care very much. How many could name the Spanish PM straight off (even though he’s new)?

    There’s nothing wrong here with this, we are bound to be more interested in what we can understand (literally).

    That may be the answer to how we learn to love Europe: they promise to stop speaking languages we don’t understand and just use English instead. We’ll let them carry on driving on the wrong side of the road I suppose...
    How about a single European electric plug?
    Good point: another way Europe is somewhere else.
    It is a good point.

    But let’s all take a bet which way the Commission would want to harmonise things? Our better, safer plug to become standard? Thought not.


    There are two interesting precedents for this that I can think of :

    1. The move to 230v +/- 10, which standardised electrical power across Europe in a relatively sensible way.
    2. The harmonisation of summer and winter time across Europe, so everyone's clocks changed on the same day
    Actually I think we should adopt European time. Much better use of light. If farmers in Lerwick whinge well Sturgeon can have her own time done in the Winter.
    But what about plug sockets? They should be standardised across the EU
    Nah. Paint manufacturers and decorators Christmases all at once. I don’t fancy having holes in all the walls of the house to convert. Should we drive on the right too?
    No need to change the hole - just [switch of the supply first of course!, then] remove the socket from the wall box and replace with a euro standard socket... which, trust me, will be readily available to fit into existing wall boxes, once we adopt a euro socket standard.
    Do wear your tinfoil hat to keep our Juncker 's mind control rays beforehand. Safety first!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    FF43 said:

    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    welshowl said:

    FPT

    welshowl said:

    @Fysics_Teacher

    Quite possibly. Though myself and I believe Alanbrooke of this parish and others would not fit the stereotype.

    This stuff is important. We are surrounded every day by the culture of the Anglosphere. It’s so pervasive we don’t really see it as such. But there it is everyday, from the latest Hollywood movie, to ACDC in concert, to Game of Thrones, to the Indian Premier League, to Graham Norton’s sofa. I can almost hear the snorting amongst some that it’s all so low brow but that is the point: it’s popular.

    Now there’s fantastic stuff from Europe but 200k watching Spiral in French with subtitles on BBC4, or bilingual Moliere at the Donmar is a cultural peashooter against daily 21century shock and awe.

    Even here, look how we get fairly regular threads on US elections and we are all fairly au fait with who is who, and we all know who Malcolm Turnbull is, but a Swedish opinion poll pops up on their election in a couple of weeks, and most of us are puzzling over which party is which, and couldn’t really care very much. How many could name the Spanish PM straight off (even though he’s new)?

    There’s nothing wrong here with this, we are bound to be more interested in what we can understand (literally).

    That may be the answer to how we learn to love Europe: they promise to stop speaking languages we don’t understand and just use English instead. We’ll let them carry on driving on the wrong side of the road I suppose...
    How about a single European electric plug?
    Good point: another way Europe is somewhere else.
    It is a good point.

    But let’s all take a bet which way the Commission would want to harmonise things? Our better, safer plug to become standard? Thought not.


    There are two interesting precedents for this that I can think of :

    1. The move to 230v +/- 10, which standardised electrical power across Europe in a relatively sensible way.
    2. The harmonisation of summer and winter time across Europe, so everyone's clocks changed on the same day
    I am getting ready to head off to the German speaking Italian Alps, my Euro two-pin adapter retrieved from its lair deep in some drawer, only to hear that the sockets there are apparently three-pin?
    The two pin plugs fit the three pin sockets.
    That's good to hear. Although someone on trip advisor does say that the hotel I am going to has a supply of two/three pin adapters for visitors; not sure why it would need them if you are right.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    rcs1000 said:

    welshowl said:

    FPT

    welshowl said:

    @Fysics_Teacher



    Now there’s fantastic stuff from Europe but 200k watching Spiral in French with subtitles on BBC4, or bilingual Moliere at the Donmar is a cultural peashooter against daily 21century shock and awe.

    Even here, look how we get fairly regular threads on US elections and we are all fairly au fait with who is who, and we all know who Malcolm Turnbull is, but a Swedish opinion poll pops up on their election in a couple of weeks, and most of us are puzzling over which party is which, and couldn’t really care very much. How many could name the Spanish PM straight off (even though he’s new)?

    There’s nothing wrong here with this, we are bound to be more interested in what we can understand (literally).

    That may be the answer to how we learn to love Europe: they promise to stop speaking languages we don’t understand and just use English instead. We’ll let them carry on driving on the wrong side of the road I suppose...
    How about a single European electric plug?
    Good point: another way Europe is somewhere else.
    It is a good point.

    But let’s all take a bet which way the Commission would want to harmonise things? Our better, safer plug to become standard? Thought not.


    There are two interesting precedents for this that I can think of :

    1. The move to 230v +/- 10, which standardised electrical power across Europe in a relatively sensible way.
    2. The harmonisation of summer and winter time across Europe, so everyone's clocks changed on the same day
    Actually I think we should adopt European time. Much better use of light. If farmers in Lerwick whinge well Sturgeon can have her own time done in the Winter.
    But what about plug sockets? They should be standardised across the EU
    Nah. Paint manufacturers and decorators Christmases all at once. I don’t fancy having holes in all the walls of the house to convert. Should we drive on the right too?
    No need to change the hole - just [switch of the supply first of course!, then] remove the socket from the wall box and replace with a euro standard socket... which, trust me, will be readily available to fit into existing wall boxes, once we adopt a euro socket standard.
    There is nothing stopping anyone doing that now. Perhaps Mr Glenn would like to show a lead?
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840

    So an Islamic extremists and a man who was mentally unfit to stand trial... what the hell has this got to do with my point?

    You should learn to read properly, the post clearly said far right. In fact as you pointed out my first line said far right. I cannot be held responsible for you not reading what was in the very first line!

    Also some Labour MPs did step up their security or seriously thought about it after the Jo Cox incident. I realise this doesn't fit into your simplistic world view but facts often conflict with people's fantasies.

    Starting to sound a little angry in the last paragraph, the far right types get a bit like that about Labour MPs.
    I can read, thanks. And you utterly miss my point.

    "Starting to sound a little angry in the last paragraph, the far right types get a bit like that about Labour MPs."

    LOL. If I'm 'far right' then goodness knows how you see many of the other posters on here!

    Then again, far left defenders of anti-Semitic docuhebags do tend to see anyone who does not pray to a golden idol of Corbyn three times a day as 'far right'. Including Labour MPs ...:)
    Well clearly you struggle because the first line said far right as you pointed out but you seemed to struggle with it.

    Did I say you were far right?

    I said you were starting to get a little angry, I said far right types get a bit like that about Labour... I didn't actually say you were...

    Although given you struggle to tell a post is talking about the far right when it says it in the very first line I really shouldn't expect you to grasp the difference between something being implied and being actually stated...

    Durr Corbyn Racist Durr seems to be more the level of debate your after. That is lovely for you and I'll leave you have fun with that but is really nothing to do with and no contradiction of my original point about the far right really not liking Labour MPs. Just to note again that said far right, not just right.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    @Foxinsox

    I don’t bother folding a foil hat. A light standard sieve as headgear usually suffices. At least indoors.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    We need to standardise light switches too.

    In the UK they go 'click' while in France they go 'tac'.

    I wish we could standardise on French-style mushrooms - the ones grown in grit that you can just brush off, rather than the horse manure we have plastered all over ours, which is a nightmare to wash off properly.

    (I've often seen what I appears to be mushrooms seasoned with black pepper served up in dodgy restaurants, but on closer inspection, that's not black pepper!)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    Foxy said:

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    rcs1000 said:

    welshowl said:

    FPT

    welshowl said:

    @Fysics_Teacher





    Even here, look how we get fairly regular threads on US elections and we are all fairly au fait with who is who, and we all know who Malcolm Turnbull is, but a Swedish opinion poll pops up on their election in a couple of weeks, and most of us are puzzling over which party is which, and couldn’t really care very much. How many could name the Spanish PM straight off (even though he’s new)?

    There’s nothing wrong here with this, we are bound to be more interested in what we can understand (literally).

    That may be the answer to how we learn to love Europe: they promise to stop speaking languages we don’t understand and just use English instead. We’ll let them carry on driving on the wrong side of the road I suppose...
    How about a single European electric plug?
    Good point: another way Europe is somewhere else.
    It is a good point.

    But let’s all take a bet which way the Commission would want to harmonise things? Our better, safer plug to become standard? Thought not.


    There are two interesting precedents for this that I can think of :

    1. The move to 230v +/- 10, which standardised electrical power across Europe in a relatively sensible way.
    2. The harmonisation of summer and winter time across Europe, so everyone's clocks changed on the same day
    Actually I think we should adopt European time. Much better use of light. If farmers in Lerwick whinge well Sturgeon can have her own time done in the Winter.
    But what about plug sockets? They should be standardised across the EU
    Nah. Paint manufacturers and decorators Christmases all at once. I don’t fancy having holes in all the walls of the house to convert. Should we drive on the right too?
    No need to change the hole - just [switch of the supply first of course!, then] remove the socket from the wall box and replace with a euro standard socket... which, trust me, will be readily available to fit into existing wall boxes, once we adopt a euro socket standard.
    Do wear your tinfoil hat to keep our Juncker 's mind control rays beforehand. Safety first!
    Does that have to be a euro-style tinfoil hat or will the standard order-order version suffice?

    (Where's Hunchman when you need an expert, eh?)
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    IanB2 said:

    FF43 said:

    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    welshowl said:

    FPT

    welshowl said:

    @Fysics_Teacher

    Quite possibly. Though myself and I believe Alanbrooke of this parish and others would not fit the stereotype.

    This stuff is is a cultural peashooter against daily 21century shock and awe.

    Even here, look how we get fairly regular threads on US elections and we are all fairly au fait with who is who, and we all know who Malcolm Turnbull is, but a Swedish opinion poll pops up on their election in a couple of weeks, and most of us are puzzling over which party is which, and couldn’t really care very much. How many could name the Spanish PM straight off (even though he’s new)?

    There’s nothing wrong here with this, we are bound to be more interested in what we can understand (literally).

    That may be the answer to how we learn to love Europe: they promise to stop speaking languages we don’t understand and just use English instead. We’ll let them carry on driving on the wrong side of the road I suppose...
    How about a single European electric plug?
    Good point: another way Europe is somewhere else.
    It is a good point.

    But let’s all take a bet which way the Commission would want to harmonise things? Our better, safer plug to become standard? Thought not.


    There are two interesting precedents for this that I can think of :

    1. The move to 230v +/- 10, which standardised electrical power across Europe in a relatively sensible way.
    2. The harmonisation of summer and winter time across Europe, so everyone's clocks changed on the same day
    I am getting ready to head off to the German speaking Italian Alps, my Euro two-pin adapter retrieved from its lair deep in some drawer, only to hear that the sockets there are apparently three-pin?
    The two pin plugs fit the three pin sockets.
    That's good to hear. Although someone on trip advisor does say that the hotel I am going to has a supply of two/three pin adapters for visitors; not sure why it would need them if you are right.
    Assuming they are sockets for standard round three pin plugs, the lozenge shaped two pin plug should fit in the cylindrical recess of the sockets. Thought. Your adapter may not be that shape. It needs to fit a recess 1.7cm deep. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuko
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    edited August 2018
    Culturally, I think we are becoming more American than ever. This is most obvious with the rise of ‘Americanisms’ that have almost become the standard form:

    1) ‘on’ the weekend

    2) airplane

    3) I’m ‘good’ rather than well

    I think people of 40 and over massively underestimate the importance of the Internet on cultural consumption. The children of my colleagues don’t watch CBeebies; as soon as they can choose, they opt for YouTube. Love Island aside, nobody watches television anymore. Netflix and Amazon are totally dominant. They are US-dominated. The flip side of this is more US viewers being exposed to British actors and shows (see ‘The Crown’), but the centre of gravity will always be in the US.

    Nick Palmer and Roger will be disappointed. Knowledge of European languages and therefore culture is worse than ever, and at the same time teenagers in Northern Europe are hoovering up English language media on the internet.

    The globalisation of culture is only just getting started. Middle-class people watching Borgen is an asterisk in this story. I say this as someone who loves Borgen, 1864, and the bonkers vowel sounds that are unique to Danish.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892
    edited August 2018

    welshowl said:

    rcs1000 said:

    welshowl said:

    FPT

    welshowl said:

    @Fysics_Teacher

    Quite possibly. Though myself and I believe Alanbrooke of this parish and others would not fit the stereotype.

    This stuff is important. We are surrounded every day by the culture of the Anglosphere. It’s so pervasive we don’t really see it as such. But there it is everyday, from the latest Hollywood movie, to ACDC in concert, to Game of Thrones, to the Indian Premier League, to Graham Norton’s sofa. I can almost hear the snorting amongst some that it’s all so low brow but that is the point: it’s popular.

    Now there’s fantastic stuff from Europe but 200k watching Spiral in French with subtitles on BBC4, or bilingual Moliere at the Donmar is a cultural peashooter against daily 21century shock and awe.

    Even here, look how we get fairly regular threads on US elections and we are all fairly au fait with who is who, and we all know who Malcolm Turnbull is, but a Swedish opinion poll pops up on their election in a couple of weeks, and most of us are puzzling over which party is which, and couldn’t really care very much. How many could name the Spanish PM straight off (even though he’s new)?

    There’s nothing wrong here with this, we are bound to be more interested in what we can understand (literally).

    That may be the answer to how we learn to love Europe: they promise to stop speaking languages we don’t understand and just use English instead. We’ll let them carry on driving on the wrong side of the road I suppose...
    How about a single European electric plug?
    Good point: another way Europe is somewhere else.
    It is a good point.

    But let’s all take a bet which way the Commission would want to harmonise things? Our better, safer plug to become standard? Thought not.


    There are two interesting precedents for this that I can think of :

    1. The move to 230v +/- 10, which standardised electrical power across Europe in a relatively sensible way.
    2. The harmonisation of summer and winter time across Europe, so everyone's clocks changed on the same day
    Actually I think we should adopt European time. Much better use of light. If farmers in Lerwick whinge well Sturgeon can have her own time done in the Winter.
    But what about plug sockets? They should be standardised across the EU
    Surely the answer, which we used in Italy last month, is an extension cable with several plugs which can then be connected with a single adapter? Far less trouble than switching the plugs on millions of devices across Europe.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728

    So an Islamic extremists and a man who was mentally unfit to stand trial... what the hell has this got to do with my point?

    You should learn to read properly, the post clearly said far right. In fact as you pointed out my first line said far right. I cannot be held responsible for you not reading what was in the very first line!

    Also some Labour MPs did step up their security or seriously thought about it after the Jo Cox incident. I realise this doesn't fit into your simplistic world view but facts often conflict with people's fantasies.

    Starting to sound a little angry in the last paragraph, the far right types get a bit like that about Labour MPs.
    I can read, thanks. And you utterly miss my point.

    "Starting to sound a little angry in the last paragraph, the far right types get a bit like that about Labour MPs."

    LOL. If I'm 'far right' then goodness knows how you see many of the other posters on here!

    Then again, far left defenders of anti-Semitic docuhebags do tend to see anyone who does not pray to a golden idol of Corbyn three times a day as 'far right'. Including Labour MPs ...:)
    Well clearly you struggle because the first line said far right as you pointed out but you seemed to struggle with it.

    Did I say you were far right?

    I said you were starting to get a little angry, I said far right types get a bit like that about Labour... I didn't actually say you were...
    (Snip)
    You know, and I know, what you were doing with that sentence. It's rather childish.

    And BTW, I'm not angry. :)
  • News filtering through on Twitter of another mass shooting in Jacksonville, Florida. Kids at a video game tournament. Appalling.
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047
    Is it time for the gloves to come off? Time to tell the elderly Brexit voters that they have to pay the price of leaving, not the young? Firstly NI should be applicable to them and secondly that the triple lock should be abolished. After all, if Brexit is worth any price isn't it time they coughed up?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    News filtering through on Twitter of another mass shooting in Jacksonville, Florida. Kids at a video game tournament. Appalling.

    https://www.news4jax.com/news/shooting-at-jacksonville-landing-leaves

    There was another shooting at an American Football game yesterday. No idea if they're connected.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728
    A rather off-topic note about plugs:

    When we moved into our current house (then ten years old), we wanted to replace the washing machine in the kitchen with a washer-dryer. I moved the old machine out, and was surprised to find that the plug socket behind the machine had no face to it: the rear mounting box was there, but the wires from the machine had been wired directly into the house's wiring, with no plug or socket in between.

    I had to get a handyman in to put in a proper socket, as anything above 5 Volts makes me nervous ...

    I've no idea if this is common, recommended, or downright dangerous.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,181
    Fenman said:

    Is it time for the gloves to come off? Time to tell the elderly Brexit voters that they have to pay the price of leaving, not the young? Firstly NI should be applicable to them and secondly that the triple lock should be abolished. After all, if Brexit is worth any price isn't it time they coughed up?

    Didn't the Tories propose ending the triple lock in 2017? Given how things went that's safe, and I believe labour committed to it too.
  • News filtering through on Twitter of another mass shooting in Jacksonville, Florida. Kids at a video game tournament. Appalling.

    https://twitter.com/pmbreakingnews/status/1033779460900839426?s=21
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840

    So an Islamic extremists and a man who was mentally unfit to stand trial... what the hell has this got to do with my point?

    You should learn to read properly, the post clearly said far right. In fact as you pointed out my first line said far right. I cannot be held responsible for you not reading what was in the very first line!

    Also some Labour MPs did step up their security or seriously thought about it after the Jo Cox incident. I realise this doesn't fit into your simplistic world view but facts often conflict with people's fantasies.

    Starting to sound a little angry in the last paragraph, the far right types get a bit like that about Labour MPs.
    I can read, thanks. And you utterly miss my point.

    "Starting to sound a little angry in the last paragraph, the far right types get a bit like that about Labour MPs."

    LOL. If I'm 'far right' then goodness knows how you see many of the other posters on here!

    Then again, far left defenders of anti-Semitic docuhebags do tend to see anyone who does not pray to a golden idol of Corbyn three times a day as 'far right'. Including Labour MPs ...:)
    Well clearly you struggle because the first line said far right as you pointed out but you seemed to struggle with it.

    Did I say you were far right?

    I said you were starting to get a little angry, I said far right types get a bit like that about Labour... I didn't actually say you were...
    (Snip)
    You know, and I know, what you were doing with that sentence. It's rather childish.

    And BTW, I'm not angry. :)
    I'm not sure you are really in a position to accuse others of being childish, I'll leave you to your non angry rants about how people are douchebags and the like....
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    A rather off-topic note about plugs:

    When we moved into our current house (then ten years old), we wanted to replace the washing machine in the kitchen with a washer-dryer. I moved the old machine out, and was surprised to find that the plug socket behind the machine had no face to it: the rear mounting box was there, but the wires from the machine had been wired directly into the house's wiring, with no plug or socket in between.

    I had to get a handyman in to put in a proper socket, as anything above 5 Volts makes me nervous ...

    I've no idea if this is common, recommended, or downright dangerous.

    Sounds like it had no fuse, no Earth, and no way of turning it off. Your junction box might trip if there was a fault; otherwise it doesn't sound very safe to me.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728
    In other news, Wonga needs some wonga:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45313958

    I cannot say I'm devastated at this news.
  • Fenman said:

    Is it time for the gloves to come off? Time to tell the elderly Brexit voters that they have to pay the price of leaving, not the young? Firstly NI should be applicable to them and secondly that the triple lock should be abolished. After all, if Brexit is worth any price isn't it time they coughed up?

    I actually agree with you but not because of Brexit.

    TM announced the abolition of the triple lock and Corbyn objected saying he would re-instate it.

    Furthermore, I see no reason why NI stops at 65 or whatever the retirement age will be. While I benefitted from it for a while it is obvious if you are working you should pay full NI no matter your age
  • News filtering through on Twitter of another mass shooting in Jacksonville, Florida. Kids at a video game tournament. Appalling.

    https://twitter.com/pmbreakingnews/status/1033779460900839426?s=21
    Good god, that's chilling.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728

    So an Islamic extremists and a man who was mentally unfit to stand trial... what the hell has this got to do with my point?

    You should learn to read properly, the post clearly said far right. In fact as you pointed out my first line said far right. I cannot be held responsible for you not reading what was in the very first line!

    Also some Labour MPs did step up their security or seriously thought about it after the Jo Cox incident. I realise this doesn't fit into your simplistic world view but facts often conflict with people's fantasies.

    Starting to sound a little angry in the last paragraph, the far right types get a bit like that about Labour MPs.
    I can read, thanks. And you utterly miss my point.

    "Starting to sound a little angry in the last paragraph, the far right types get a bit like that about Labour MPs."

    LOL. If I'm 'far right' then goodness knows how you see many of the other posters on here!

    Then again, far left defenders of anti-Semitic docuhebags do tend to see anyone who does not pray to a golden idol of Corbyn three times a day as 'far right'. Including Labour MPs ...:)
    Well clearly you struggle because the first line said far right as you pointed out but you seemed to struggle with it.

    Did I say you were far right?

    I said you were starting to get a little angry, I said far right types get a bit like that about Labour... I didn't actually say you were...
    (Snip)
    You know, and I know, what you were doing with that sentence. It's rather childish.

    And BTW, I'm not angry. :)
    I'm not sure you are really in a position to accuse others of being childish, I'll leave you to your non angry rants about how people are douchebags and the like....
    In your case, I am in a perfect position to call you childish - I have a four-year old to compare you to. :)

    For the record, I use such terms carefully. I could call some of them much stronger things than 'douchebag', and reserve the right to in the future.
  • It's like they don't take this anti-Semitism stuff seriously.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728
    IanB2 said:

    A rather off-topic note about plugs:

    When we moved into our current house (then ten years old), we wanted to replace the washing machine in the kitchen with a washer-dryer. I moved the old machine out, and was surprised to find that the plug socket behind the machine had no face to it: the rear mounting box was there, but the wires from the machine had been wired directly into the house's wiring, with no plug or socket in between.

    I had to get a handyman in to put in a proper socket, as anything above 5 Volts makes me nervous ...

    I've no idea if this is common, recommended, or downright dangerous.

    Sounds like it had no fuse, no Earth, and no way of turning it off. Your junction box might trip if there was a fault; otherwise it doesn't sound very safe to me.
    I thought it was rather odd and silly at the time, and so did my handyman. However another neighbour (not an electrician) said it was common, and might have something to do with proximity to water - it is easier to waterproof a wire-to-wire connection than a plug and socket.

    I've absolutely no idea if that's correct.

    As for turning it off, there was a switch for it on the wall above - one of the kitchen-style flip-switches, and not a normal socket-style switch. But in our case, the switch for the fridge does the oven, and vice versa...
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840

    So an Islamic extremists and a man who was mentally unfit to stand trial... what the hell has this got to do with my point?

    You should learn to read properly, the post clearly said far right. In fact as you pointed out my first line said far right. I cannot be held responsible for you not reading what was in the very first line!

    Also some Labour MPs did step up their security or seriously thought about it after the Jo Cox incident. I realise this doesn't fit into your simplistic world view but facts often conflict with people's fantasies.

    Starting to sound a little angry in the last paragraph, the far right types get a bit like that about Labour MPs.
    I can read, thanks. And you utterly miss my point.

    "Starting to sound a little angry in the last paragraph, the far right types get a bit like that about Labour MPs."

    LOL. If I'm 'far right' then goodness knows how you see many of the other posters on here!

    Then again, far left defenders of anti-Semitic docuhebags do tend to see anyone who does not pray to a golden idol of Corbyn three times a day as 'far right'. Including Labour MPs ...:)
    Well clearly you struggle because the first line said far right as you pointed out but you seemed to struggle with it.

    Did I say you were far right?

    I said you were starting to get a little angry, I said far right types get a bit like that about Labour... I didn't actually say you were...
    (Snip)
    You know, and I know, what you were doing with that sentence. It's rather childish.

    And BTW, I'm not angry. :)
    I'm not sure you are really in a position to accuse others of being childish, I'll leave you to your non angry rants about how people are douchebags and the like....
    In your case, I am in a perfect position to call you childish - I have a four-year old to compare you to. :)

    For the record, I use such terms carefully. I could call some of them much stronger things than 'douchebag', and reserve the right to in the future.
    It is more your general behaviour that doesn't warrant calling others out as childish without seeming hypocritical. Anyway must be off, I'll leave you to miss out words whilst reading my post then accuse me of not being clear whilst non childishly and non angrily going on rants about how people you don't like are douchebags and whatever else you can come up with.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,910

    TM announced the abolition of the triple lock and Corbyn objected saying he would re-instate it.

    Furthermore, I see no reason why NI stops at 65 or whatever the retirement age will be. While I benefitted from it for a while it is obvious if you are working you should pay full NI no matter your age

    Clearly, given the core of the Conservative vote is in the older age groups, one would imagine
    any Conservative Government treading very carefully in these areas and no doubt the same will be true around social care provision and the cost of care.

    The current NI situation for post-retirement age workers is completely and utterly indefensible and given the growing numbers of older workers it seems absurd for any Government not to create an equal playing field as you suggest.

    On an unrelated, sad to hear the passing of John McCain. There have been some excellent tributes paid and those from former Presidents Clinton, George HW Bush and Carter haven't had a lot of coverage. This from an American website has the tributes from Trump and the five surviving former Presidents:

    https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/politics/a22831530/john-mccain-death-president-tributes-bill-clinton-jimmy-carter/

    As an aside, has there ever been a time with five living former Presidents?
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842

    It's like they don't take this anti-Semitism stuff seriously.
    If they had said that these penalties would apply to all complaints - that would be bad.

    But singling out antisemitism complaints looks more like an agenda to try to shut this issue down by gagging people.

    This is indefensible.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892

    A rather off-topic note about plugs:

    When we moved into our current house (then ten years old), we wanted to replace the washing machine in the kitchen with a washer-dryer. I moved the old machine out, and was surprised to find that the plug socket behind the machine had no face to it: the rear mounting box was there, but the wires from the machine had been wired directly into the house's wiring, with no plug or socket in between.

    I had to get a handyman in to put in a proper socket, as anything above 5 Volts makes me nervous ...

    I've no idea if this is common, recommended, or downright dangerous.

    I think I would prefer a plug with a fuse than something directly connected to the house's wiring, even if there was a trip switch on that wiring.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Sen. John McCain died 9 years to the day after Sen. Edward Kennedy, and from the same cancer.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited August 2018
    stodge said:

    As an aside, has there ever been a time with five living former Presidents?

    From 2001 to 2003 when Reagan died, he, Bush Sr, Clinton, Carter and Ford were all alive.

    In 1861 Buchanan, Van Buren, Pierce, Millard Fillmore and John Tyler were all still alive.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    It's like they don't take this anti-Semitism stuff seriously.
    If they had said that these penalties would apply to all complaints - that would be bad.

    But singling out antisemitism complaints looks more like an agenda to try to shut this issue down by gagging people.

    This is indefensible.
    All of it is indefensible - they just don't care.

    I can't tell you how pissed I am at the people who post on here who chose to see nothing when this first started to be a real issue.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    News filtering through on Twitter of another mass shooting in Jacksonville, Florida. Kids at a video game tournament. Appalling.

    https://twitter.com/pmbreakingnews/status/1033779460900839426?s=21
    Good god, that's chilling.
    Wow - that is awful
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    Floater said:

    News filtering through on Twitter of another mass shooting in Jacksonville, Florida. Kids at a video game tournament. Appalling.

    https://twitter.com/pmbreakingnews/status/1033779460900839426?s=21
    Good god, that's chilling.
    Wow - that is awful
    Multiple fatalities being reported
  • Floater said:

    It's like they don't take this anti-Semitism stuff seriously.
    If they had said that these penalties would apply to all complaints - that would be bad.

    But singling out antisemitism complaints looks more like an agenda to try to shut this issue down by gagging people.

    This is indefensible.
    All of it is indefensible - they just don't care.

    I can't tell you how pissed I am at the people who post on here who chose to see nothing when this first started to be a real issue.
    They are culpable standing by watching the certain implosion of Corbyn's labour

    Where is their moral compass

    Can anyone explain how TM would still be in office if she had behaved like this
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Floater said:

    News filtering through on Twitter of another mass shooting in Jacksonville, Florida. Kids at a video game tournament. Appalling.

    https://twitter.com/pmbreakingnews/status/1033779460900839426?s=21
    Good god, that's chilling.
    Wow - that is awful
    Just seen this - seems multiple fatalities

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/26/multiple-fatalities-reported-mass-shooting-games-tournament/
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    Floater said:

    It's like they don't take this anti-Semitism stuff seriously.
    If they had said that these penalties would apply to all complaints - that would be bad.

    But singling out antisemitism complaints looks more like an agenda to try to shut this issue down by gagging people.

    This is indefensible.
    All of it is indefensible - they just don't care.

    I can't tell you how pissed I am at the people who post on here who chose to see nothing when this first started to be a real issue.
    I am more pissed at those people who still dismissing it.

    I am even more pissed at the people who are acknowledging it as an issue - but not taking any action to tackle it. Yes - that is Labour members who are prepared to still work for Corbyn to become PM. They have completely lost their moral compass.
  • Floater said:

    News filtering through on Twitter of another mass shooting in Jacksonville, Florida. Kids at a video game tournament. Appalling.

    https://twitter.com/pmbreakingnews/status/1033779460900839426?s=21
    Good god, that's chilling.
    Wow - that is awful
    Multiple fatalities being reported
    Sky not leading on it yet. Mind you they have been 24/7 on the Pope visit
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    RoyalBlue said:

    Culturally, I think we are becoming more American than ever. This is most obvious with the rise of ‘Americanisms’ that have almost become the standard form:

    1) ‘on’ the weekend

    2) airplane

    3) I’m ‘good’ rather than well

    I think people of 40 and over massively underestimate the importance of the Internet on cultural consumption. The children of my colleagues don’t watch CBeebies; as soon as they can choose, they opt for YouTube. Love Island aside, nobody watches television anymore. Netflix and Amazon are totally dominant. They are US-dominated. The flip side of this is more US viewers being exposed to British actors and shows (see ‘The Crown’), but the centre of gravity will always be in the US.

    Other Americanisms adopted by the news media are "officer" rather than constable, for the police, though I supposed calling them policemen now stands a high chance of being inaccurate as well as sexist, and using "gender" to mean sex.

    Even on television, there are so many satellite channels basically showing wall-to-wall American content.

    More sinister is the Americanisation of our news, especially at weekends and overnight because junior staff take their lead from the American news channels. The BBC led for most of the day on the death of John McCain who, inspiring though his story might be, means nothing to most Britons who don't spend their lives on pb.

This discussion has been closed.