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24

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  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,437

    ' More than a third of farmed fruit and vegetables never reaches supermarket shelves because it is misshapen or the wrong size, according to new research.

    A University of Edinburgh study found more than 50 million tonnes of fruit and vegetables grown across Europe were discarded each year. '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-45238732

    Worth remembering when some farmer who wont off fair pay and conditions wails that crops are going unharvested.

    And puts a new perspective on the foodbank issue.

    I am at a complete loss to see the link between the story and your comments.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    edited August 2018

    Mr. Glenn, mildly surprised at your disbelief. Do you think there is a shift to Remain, or Leave, in the country?

    Ah I see now. That poll is a month old and comes from the link below. Deltapoll haven't published their tables yet for the poll featured in today's Sun.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/polls/brext-chequers-may-conservatives
    If anything today's Sun poll suggests a slight swing to Leave from that poll but even the earlier Deltapoll was post Chequers Deal so I doubt much has changed since
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,181

    King Cole, downside of big dogs is they tend to live shorter lives.

    Medium is always the way to go. I don't want a dog I have to bend down to the floor to pet, feels like a recipe for back problems!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,754
    HYUFD said:

    Mr. Glenn, mildly surprised at your disbelief. Do you think there is a shift to Remain, or Leave, in the country?

    Ah I see now. That poll is a month old and comes from the link below. Deltapoll haven't published their tables yet for the poll featured in today's Sun.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/polls/brext-chequers-may-conservatives
    If anything today's Sun poll suggests a slight swing to Leave from that poll but even the earlier Deltapoll was post Chequers Deal so I doubt much has changed since
    What's Deltapoll's record in General Elections?
  • Pulpstar said:

    Not been the best couple of days for Joe Root has it.

    His captaincy was mince towards the end of the last test, if the Indians had batted a touch better and some more rain fell it would have been shown up for the piss poor captaincy it was.
    He only declared at Lords when a wicket fell.

    If that hadn't happened who knows how much longer he would have batted on.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,635
    ydoethur said:

    ' More than a third of farmed fruit and vegetables never reaches supermarket shelves because it is misshapen or the wrong size, according to new research.

    A University of Edinburgh study found more than 50 million tonnes of fruit and vegetables grown across Europe were discarded each year. '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-45238732

    Worth remembering when some farmer who wont off fair pay and conditions wails that crops are going unharvested.

    And puts a new perspective on the foodbank issue.

    I am at a complete loss to see the link between the story and your comments.
    He’s saying that a huge amount of food gets thrown away not because it doesn’t meet hygiene standards, but because it doesn’t meet standards for appearance and size of the EU and of the supermarket purchasers.

    What we should do is allow a clearing house to be set up, so that food banks and commercial kitchens can get this produce, rather than it being left to rot in fields.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    kle4 said:

    King Cole, downside of big dogs is they tend to live shorter lives.

    Medium is always the way to go. I don't want a dog I have to bend down to the floor to pet, feels like a recipe for back problems!
    How about a budgie?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,437
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    ' More than a third of farmed fruit and vegetables never reaches supermarket shelves because it is misshapen or the wrong size, according to new research.

    A University of Edinburgh study found more than 50 million tonnes of fruit and vegetables grown across Europe were discarded each year. '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-45238732

    Worth remembering when some farmer who wont off fair pay and conditions wails that crops are going unharvested.

    And puts a new perspective on the foodbank issue.

    I am at a complete loss to see the link between the story and your comments.
    He’s saying that a huge amount of food gets thrown away not because it doesn’t meet hygiene standards, but because it doesn’t meet standards for appearance and size of the EU and of the supermarket purchasers.

    What we should do is allow a clearing house to be set up, so that food banks and commercial kitchens can get this produce, rather than it being left to rot in fields.
    So why is it the fault of farmers for not offering fair wages?
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    ' More than a third of farmed fruit and vegetables never reaches supermarket shelves because it is misshapen or the wrong size, according to new research.

    A University of Edinburgh study found more than 50 million tonnes of fruit and vegetables grown across Europe were discarded each year. '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-45238732

    Worth remembering when some farmer who wont off fair pay and conditions wails that crops are going unharvested.

    And puts a new perspective on the foodbank issue.

    I am at a complete loss to see the link between the story and your comments.
    He’s saying that a huge amount of food gets thrown away not because it doesn’t meet hygiene standards, but because it doesn’t meet standards for appearance and size of the EU and of the supermarket purchasers.

    What we should do is allow a clearing house to be set up, so that food banks and commercial kitchens can get this produce, rather than it being left to rot in fields.
    But it does good in the fields, its good for the soil. And actually creating an infrastructure to transport these goods is easier said than done.

    Did you know that Greggs up and down the country freely allow local foodbanks to collect any of the stuff they have at the end of the day. The difficulty is in getting people to actually come and collect all the stuff on a regular basis.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,815
    Mr. kle4, then you need a pet elephant. No bending down required.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628

    King Cole, downside of big dogs is they tend to live shorter lives.

    My last wire-haired fox terrier lived to well over 14. Seems to be the norm. They have a big dog's bark too, so a great compromise. (Plus they don't shed).

    A friend has a flat-coated retriever. They are very prone to developing cancers from age seven. Another friend has boxers and Boston Terriers, both of which breeds have required extensive operations to correct genetic issues.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    edited August 2018
    Mr Sandpit,

    "The researchers attributed losses to strict government regulations, supermarkets' high standards as well as customer expectations of how produce should look"

    According to one of the researchers, an EU regulation emphasises the cosmetic appearance of fruit and vegetables, as opposed to the quality.

    Yes, that's right, the 'strict government regulations' came from guess where …? The EU. There is a simple remedy so possibly sometime in 2019 the problem may be solved. Then we can work on consumer expectations.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,635
    edited August 2018
    notme said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    ' More than a third of farmed fruit and vegetables never reaches supermarket shelves because it is misshapen or the wrong size, according to new research.

    A University of Edinburgh study found more than 50 million tonnes of fruit and vegetables grown across Europe were discarded each year. '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-45238732

    Worth remembering when some farmer who wont off fair pay and conditions wails that crops are going unharvested.

    And puts a new perspective on the foodbank issue.

    I am at a complete loss to see the link between the story and your comments.
    He’s saying that a huge amount of food gets thrown away not because it doesn’t meet hygiene standards, but because it doesn’t meet standards for appearance and size of the EU and of the supermarket purchasers.

    What we should do is allow a clearing house to be set up, so that food banks and commercial kitchens can get this produce, rather than it being left to rot in fields.
    But it does good in the fields, its good for the soil. And actually creating an infrastructure to transport these goods is easier said than done.

    Did you know that Greggs up and down the country freely allow local foodbanks to collect any of the stuff they have at the end of the day. The difficulty is in getting people to actually come and collect all the stuff on a regular basis.
    Don’t disagree about the infrastructure, which is why a clearing house system is probably the best option. Have a single organisation go around the farms and collect what doesn’t sell.

    Alternatively, when free from EU regs, have supermarkets buy and sell “A” and “B” quality of farmed produce.

    If Greggs marketing department is reading this, spend £5 per shop per day on sending someone to pick up the unsold stock and take it to the local food bank where possible. It would do wonders for your CSR and public image.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    Former veteran Tory MP Sir Peter Tapsell has died aged 88

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-45234741
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,815
    Mr. Mark, aye, pure breeds often have problems (working breeds less than other types, though). Cross-breeds or mongrels can often be healthier (although, alas, Kai the dog was a mongrel and he died around 6 due to an internal tumour that caused bleeding).
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,016

    Mr. kle4, then you need a pet elephant. No bending down required.

    Elephant crap doesn't pick itself up you know.

    (I literally did clean up after a circus as a summer job when I was teenager)

  • ydoethur said:

    ' More than a third of farmed fruit and vegetables never reaches supermarket shelves because it is misshapen or the wrong size, according to new research.

    A University of Edinburgh study found more than 50 million tonnes of fruit and vegetables grown across Europe were discarded each year. '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-45238732

    Worth remembering when some farmer who wont off fair pay and conditions wails that crops are going unharvested.

    And puts a new perspective on the foodbank issue.

    I am at a complete loss to see the link between the story and your comments.
    The wailing about a few strawberries (usually Scottish strawberries) being left behind is put into perspective by all the fruit and veg which is wasted because it is the wrong shape.

    And how many people could be fed by all this wasted fruit and veg if it was instead given away or sold at a nominal price ?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,635
    HYUFD said:

    Former veteran Tory MP Sir Peter Tapsell has died aged 88

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-45234741

    Very sad but he batted a good innings. May he rest in peace.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,437
    HYUFD said:

    Former veteran Tory MP Sir Peter Tapsell has died aged 88

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-45234741

    Shouldn't that be 'veteran former Tory MP?'
  • Not been the best couple of days for Joe Root has it.

    Good news: Sam Curran has managed a knock of 40 in a low scoring innings for Surrey (i.e. more than anyone else in the England line-up, and considerably more than Stokes!)
    It will be interesting to see who England drop to bring him back into the team.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Former veteran Tory MP Sir Peter Tapsell has died aged 88

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-45234741

    Shouldn't that be 'veteran former Tory MP?'
    Well he is now former and was a Tory MP
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,437

    ydoethur said:

    ' More than a third of farmed fruit and vegetables never reaches supermarket shelves because it is misshapen or the wrong size, according to new research.

    A University of Edinburgh study found more than 50 million tonnes of fruit and vegetables grown across Europe were discarded each year. '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-45238732

    Worth remembering when some farmer who wont off fair pay and conditions wails that crops are going unharvested.

    And puts a new perspective on the foodbank issue.

    I am at a complete loss to see the link between the story and your comments.
    The wailing about a few strawberries (usually Scottish strawberries) being left behind is put into perspective by all the fruit and veg which is wasted because it is the wrong shape.

    And how many people could be fed by all this wasted fruit and veg if it was instead given away or sold at a nominal price ?
    So why the comment about fair wages?

    By all means say that this is wasteful and inefficient, because it is. The CAP and CFP are run by people who would fail a Village Idiot interview for being overqualified.

    But the point about labour shortages/low pay in the agricultural sector is a separate issue and it didn't add anything to your point. Indeed, it obscured it entirely.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    edited August 2018
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Former veteran Tory MP Sir Peter Tapsell has died aged 88

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-45234741

    Very sad but he batted a good innings. May he rest in peace.
    Indeed, he once worked for Eden and knew his own mind, opposed the second Iraq War but also a Eurosceptic. RIP
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,437

    Not been the best couple of days for Joe Root has it.

    Good news: Sam Curran has managed a knock of 40 in a low scoring innings for Surrey (i.e. more than anyone else in the England line-up, and considerably more than Stokes!)
    It will be interesting to see who England drop to bring him back into the team.
    Most of India's batsmen.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,815
    Mr. Divvie, that's true.

    And something you have in common with John Major, no?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,635
    Ben Stokes is back!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,437
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Former veteran Tory MP Sir Peter Tapsell has died aged 88

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-45234741

    Very sad but he batted a good innings. May he rest in peace.
    Indeed, he once worked for Eden and knew his own mind, opposed the second Iraq War but also a Eurosceptic. RIP
    Also of course a staunch opponent of fox hunting at a time when that stance was not at all fashionable in the Tory party.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206

    HYUFD said:

    Mr. Glenn, mildly surprised at your disbelief. Do you think there is a shift to Remain, or Leave, in the country?

    Ah I see now. That poll is a month old and comes from the link below. Deltapoll haven't published their tables yet for the poll featured in today's Sun.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/polls/brext-chequers-may-conservatives
    If anything today's Sun poll suggests a slight swing to Leave from that poll but even the earlier Deltapoll was post Chequers Deal so I doubt much has changed since
    What's Deltapoll's record in General Elections?
    I don't think it was around last time but it has former ICM and YouGov pollsters on its board

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/who-we-are
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Former veteran Tory MP Sir Peter Tapsell has died aged 88

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-45234741

    Very sad but he batted a good innings. May he rest in peace.
    Indeed, he once worked for Eden and knew his own mind, opposed the second Iraq War but also a Eurosceptic. RIP
    Also of course a staunch opponent of fox hunting at a time when that stance was not at all fashionable in the Tory party.
    Along with Ann Widdecombe
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,437
    edited August 2018
    Virat Kohli should declare that and see if he can bowl England out tonight to get a week off.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    There's always been wastage with fruit and veg. Even in the 1960s, we riddled out the blighty, green and tiny potatoes for 'pig tates'. Soft fruit will always be a victim, but EU rules have made things worse.

    Personally, I recommend the misshapen strawberries from Tesco. Less than half-price and just as good.
  • CD13 said:

    There's always been wastage with fruit and veg. Even in the 1960s, we riddled out the blighty, green and tiny potatoes for 'pig tates'. Soft fruit will always be a victim, but EU rules have made things worse.

    Personally, I recommend the misshapen strawberries from Tesco. Less than half-price and just as good.

    The wonky raspberries don't seem to be any different to the standard raspberries.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,635
    ydoethur said:

    Virat Kohli should declare that and see if he can bowl England out tonight to get a week off.

    Even for me that’s a bit dangerous, but an overnight declaration with a target of 330-350 isn’t out of the question. Who wants to play cricket on Tuesday or Wednesday, surely they’ve booked their tee times already?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,635
    edited August 2018
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Hope this thread didn't put a curse on Pope. But he's gone now.

    I timed laying England at 1.75 pretty much to perfection. About two balls before the first wicket. 2.7 to lay now.
    You'd certainly not get 1.75 now FFS.
    Lay price on England right now is 8. India back price is 1.2.
    There’s huge value in that 1.2.
    That 1.2 can now be laid at 1.12.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Who is Walsingham?

    That’s not public information
  • surbysurby Posts: 1,227
    edited August 2018
    tlg86 said:

    United should sack Jose at half time like Spurs did with Jol a few years back.

    Mourinho OUT !!!!!!! Get anyone. Carrick would do.

    We have been muscled out.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,815
    Mr. Anorak, I really like the Boston Dynamics robot videos although he does have a hint of SkyNet about it :p
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,437
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Virat Kohli should declare that and see if he can bowl England out tonight to get a week off.

    Even for me that’s a bit dangerous, but an overnight declaration with a target of 330-350 isn’t out of the question. Who wants to play cricket on Tuesday or Wednesday, surely they’ve booked their tee times already?
    When even Pujara is thrashing them at eight an over, that is a sign of a side in terminal disarray. I say get them in and get them out.

    There is talk of resting Anderson and Broad from the winter tours, but I would have said the key players to leave at home are Root and Cook.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    ' More than a third of farmed fruit and vegetables never reaches supermarket shelves because it is misshapen or the wrong size, according to new research.

    A University of Edinburgh study found more than 50 million tonnes of fruit and vegetables grown across Europe were discarded each year. '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-45238732

    Worth remembering when some farmer who wont off fair pay and conditions wails that crops are going unharvested.

    And puts a new perspective on the foodbank issue.

    I am at a complete loss to see the link between the story and your comments.
    He’s saying that a huge amount of food gets thrown away not because it doesn’t meet hygiene standards, but because it doesn’t meet standards for appearance and size of the EU and of the supermarket purchasers.

    What we should do is allow a clearing house to be set up, so that food banks and commercial kitchens can get this produce, rather than it being left to rot in fields.
    So why is it the fault of farmers for not offering fair wages?
    It’s not - but he’s making the point that when they complain about food being wasted because they can’t employ pickers on derisory rates of pay they are being somewhat disingenuous
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,815
    Speaking of pachyderms, this is quite a nice little video:
    https://twitter.com/The_UnSilent_/status/1030621997309603847
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ' More than a third of farmed fruit and vegetables never reaches supermarket shelves because it is misshapen or the wrong size, according to new research.

    A University of Edinburgh study found more than 50 million tonnes of fruit and vegetables grown across Europe were discarded each year. '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-45238732

    Worth remembering when some farmer who wont off fair pay and conditions wails that crops are going unharvested.

    And puts a new perspective on the foodbank issue.

    I am at a complete loss to see the link between the story and your comments.
    The wailing about a few strawberries (usually Scottish strawberries) being left behind is put into perspective by all the fruit and veg which is wasted because it is the wrong shape.

    And how many people could be fed by all this wasted fruit and veg if it was instead given away or sold at a nominal price ?
    So why the comment about fair wages?

    By all means say that this is wasteful and inefficient, because it is. The CAP and CFP are run by people who would fail a Village Idiot interview for being overqualified.

    But the point about labour shortages/low pay in the agricultural sector is a separate issue and it didn't add anything to your point. Indeed, it obscured it entirely.
    The combination of the two things highlight the ridiculousness of the 'no strawberry left behind' position.

    Not only could more crops be harvested if farmers offered fair pay and conditions but also the loss of food production through crops not being picked is minor compared to the crops which are picked and then wasted.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,016

    Mr. Divvie, that's true.

    And something you have in common with John Major, no?

    Major was the talent (or rather was related to it), I just worked for the council cleaning up the beach links after Nellie had been to town.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,635
    Anorak said:
    They’ve been taking lessons from Robot Wars and Battlebots.
    Great to see these things make such quick progress in real world operations though, they’d be brilliant in the aftermath of an earthquake.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,437

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ' More than a third of farmed fruit and vegetables never reaches supermarket shelves because it is misshapen or the wrong size, according to new research.

    A University of Edinburgh study found more than 50 million tonnes of fruit and vegetables grown across Europe were discarded each year. '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-45238732

    Worth remembering when some farmer who wont off fair pay and conditions wails that crops are going unharvested.

    And puts a new perspective on the foodbank issue.

    I am at a complete loss to see the link between the story and your comments.
    The wailing about a few strawberries (usually Scottish strawberries) being left behind is put into perspective by all the fruit and veg which is wasted because it is the wrong shape.

    And how many people could be fed by all this wasted fruit and veg if it was instead given away or sold at a nominal price ?
    So why the comment about fair wages?

    By all means say that this is wasteful and inefficient, because it is. The CAP and CFP are run by people who would fail a Village Idiot interview for being overqualified.

    But the point about labour shortages/low pay in the agricultural sector is a separate issue and it didn't add anything to your point. Indeed, it obscured it entirely.
    The combination of the two things highlight the ridiculousness of the 'no strawberry left behind' position.

    Not only could more crops be harvested if farmers offered fair pay and conditions but also the loss of food production through crops not being picked is minor compared to the crops which are picked and then wasted.
    Can you not see you're getting that backwards though? Because a large chunk of what is picked is wasted, and the mafia, oops, supermarkets will pay only very low prices for the rest, it's impossible to pay economic wages.

    If all of it was picked and paid for, there would be more money for pay.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,635
    Laying England at 1.11 is put-your-mortgage-on-it value right now.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    ' More than a third of farmed fruit and vegetables never reaches supermarket shelves because it is misshapen or the wrong size, according to new research.

    A University of Edinburgh study found more than 50 million tonnes of fruit and vegetables grown across Europe were discarded each year. '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-45238732

    Worth remembering when some farmer who wont off fair pay and conditions wails that crops are going unharvested.

    And puts a new perspective on the foodbank issue.

    I am at a complete loss to see the link between the story and your comments.
    He’s saying that a huge amount of food gets thrown away not because it doesn’t meet hygiene standards, but because it doesn’t meet standards for appearance and size of the EU and of the supermarket purchasers.

    What we should do is allow a clearing house to be set up, so that food banks and commercial kitchens can get this produce, rather than it being left to rot in fields.
    So why is it the fault of farmers for not offering fair wages?
    It’s not - but he’s making the point that when they complain about food being wasted because they can’t employ pickers on derisory rates of pay they are being somewhat disingenuous
    As an aside, can this be spun as an anti-EU straight bananas story, and will it be?
  • ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Virat Kohli should declare that and see if he can bowl England out tonight to get a week off.

    Even for me that’s a bit dangerous, but an overnight declaration with a target of 330-350 isn’t out of the question. Who wants to play cricket on Tuesday or Wednesday, surely they’ve booked their tee times already?
    When even Pujara is thrashing them at eight an over, that is a sign of a side in terminal disarray. I say get them in and get them out.

    There is talk of resting Anderson and Broad from the winter tours, but I would have said the key players to leave at home are Root and Cook.
    That's making the assumption that Broad deserves a place on the winter tour.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,756

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ' More than a third of farmed fruit and vegetables never reaches supermarket shelves because it is misshapen or the wrong size, according to new research.

    A University of Edinburgh study found more than 50 million tonnes of fruit and vegetables grown across Europe were discarded each year. '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-45238732

    Worth remembering when some farmer who wont off fair pay and conditions wails that crops are going unharvested.

    And puts a new perspective on the foodbank issue.

    I am at a complete loss to see the link between the story and your comments.
    The wailing about a few strawberries (usually Scottish strawberries) being left behind is put into perspective by all the fruit and veg which is wasted because it is the wrong shape.

    And how many people could be fed by all this wasted fruit and veg if it was instead given away or sold at a nominal price ?
    So why the comment about fair wages?

    By all means say that this is wasteful and inefficient, because it is. The CAP and CFP are run by people who would fail a Village Idiot interview for being overqualified.

    But the point about labour shortages/low pay in the agricultural sector is a separate issue and it didn't add anything to your point. Indeed, it obscured it entirely.
    The combination of the two things highlight the ridiculousness of the 'no strawberry left behind' position.

    Not only could more crops be harvested if farmers offered fair pay and conditions but also the loss of food production through crops not being picked is minor compared to the crops which are picked and then wasted.
    Surely the difference is that misshapen fruit are not saleable, while unpicked premium fruit are?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    ' More than a third of farmed fruit and vegetables never reaches supermarket shelves because it is misshapen or the wrong size, according to new research.

    A University of Edinburgh study found more than 50 million tonnes of fruit and vegetables grown across Europe were discarded each year. '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-45238732

    Worth remembering when some farmer who wont off fair pay and conditions wails that crops are going unharvested.

    And puts a new perspective on the foodbank issue.

    I am at a complete loss to see the link between the story and your comments.
    He’s saying that a huge amount of food gets thrown away not because it doesn’t meet hygiene standards, but because it doesn’t meet standards for appearance and size of the EU and of the supermarket purchasers.

    What we should do is allow a clearing house to be set up, so that food banks and commercial kitchens can get this produce, rather than it being left to rot in fields.
    So why is it the fault of farmers for not offering fair wages?
    It’s not - but he’s making the point that when they complain about food being wasted because they can’t employ pickers on derisory rates of pay they are being somewhat disingenuous
    As an aside, can this be spun as an anti-EU straight bananas story, and will it be?
    No and yes. In that order.
  • Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    ' More than a third of farmed fruit and vegetables never reaches supermarket shelves because it is misshapen or the wrong size, according to new research.

    A University of Edinburgh study found more than 50 million tonnes of fruit and vegetables grown across Europe were discarded each year. '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-45238732

    Worth remembering when some farmer who wont off fair pay and conditions wails that crops are going unharvested.

    And puts a new perspective on the foodbank issue.

    I am at a complete loss to see the link between the story and your comments.
    He’s saying that a huge amount of food gets thrown away not because it doesn’t meet hygiene standards, but because it doesn’t meet standards for appearance and size of the EU and of the supermarket purchasers.

    What we should do is allow a clearing house to be set up, so that food banks and commercial kitchens can get this produce, rather than it being left to rot in fields.
    So why is it the fault of farmers for not offering fair wages?
    It’s not - but he’s making the point that when they complain about food being wasted because they can’t employ pickers on derisory rates of pay they are being somewhat disingenuous
    Thanks for the clearer explanation.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,754
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mr. Glenn, mildly surprised at your disbelief. Do you think there is a shift to Remain, or Leave, in the country?

    Ah I see now. That poll is a month old and comes from the link below. Deltapoll haven't published their tables yet for the poll featured in today's Sun.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/polls/brext-chequers-may-conservatives
    If anything today's Sun poll suggests a slight swing to Leave from that poll but even the earlier Deltapoll was post Chequers Deal so I doubt much has changed since
    What's Deltapoll's record in General Elections?
    I don't think it was around last time but it has former ICM and YouGov pollsters on its board

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/who-we-are
    Martin “polling disaster” Boon?
  • Do we have any PB Manchester United supporters who come from Manchester or even Lancashire ?

    As opposed to Scotland, Wales or London :wink:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,437

    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    ' More than a third of farmed fruit and vegetables never reaches supermarket shelves because it is misshapen or the wrong size, according to new research.

    A University of Edinburgh study found more than 50 million tonnes of fruit and vegetables grown across Europe were discarded each year. '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-45238732

    Worth remembering when some farmer who wont off fair pay and conditions wails that crops are going unharvested.

    And puts a new perspective on the foodbank issue.

    I am at a complete loss to see the link between the story and your comments.
    He’s saying that a huge amount of food gets thrown away not because it doesn’t meet hygiene standards, but because it doesn’t meet standards for appearance and size of the EU and of the supermarket purchasers.

    What we should do is allow a clearing house to be set up, so that food banks and commercial kitchens can get this produce, rather than it being left to rot in fields.
    So why is it the fault of farmers for not offering fair wages?
    It’s not - but he’s making the point that when they complain about food being wasted because they can’t employ pickers on derisory rates of pay they are being somewhat disingenuous
    As an aside, can this be spun as an anti-EU straight bananas story, and will it be?
    The EU's agricultural policies are usually well-meaning - except over public health emergencies where they blatantly favour whoever the Commissioner is closest to - but they are grossly incompetent and ridiculously expensive. Nobody with any sense would have come up with any of the different forms of CAP over the years. Frankly, although irritating the wastefulness of their 'minimum standards' is very minor by comparison with the 1990s habit of actually burning harvested crops to keep prices up.

    We do have the opportunity as we are leaving to come up with something better, and we may need to if Europe refuses a trade deal on food. An obvious course of action would be to say that as food security is so important farmers will be guaranteed a minimum income, on a top-up scheme. This would hopefully both increase production and reduce subsidies.

    Whether we have the politicians with the will and imagination to implement improved policies of any sort is another question. Having suffered under Gove I am sceptical.
  • surby said:

    tlg86 said:

    United should sack Jose at half time like Spurs did with Jol a few years back.

    Mourinho OUT !!!!!!! Get anyone. Carrick would do.

    We have been muscled out.
    He must go now
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,437

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Virat Kohli should declare that and see if he can bowl England out tonight to get a week off.

    Even for me that’s a bit dangerous, but an overnight declaration with a target of 330-350 isn’t out of the question. Who wants to play cricket on Tuesday or Wednesday, surely they’ve booked their tee times already?
    When even Pujara is thrashing them at eight an over, that is a sign of a side in terminal disarray. I say get them in and get them out.

    There is talk of resting Anderson and Broad from the winter tours, but I would have said the key players to leave at home are Root and Cook.
    That's making the assumption that Broad deserves a place on the winter tour.
    No it isn't, although I can see how you can read it that way (my turn to not be clear)! It's simply saying that Cook and Root both need a rest. It would also be a way of gracefully easing Root out of the captaincy which he is clearly not suited to.
  • Do we have any PB Manchester United supporters who come from Manchester or even Lancashire ?

    As opposed to Scotland, Wales or London :wink:

    I was born 5 miles from Old Trafford. Is that OK
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,181
    Anorak said:

    kle4 said:

    King Cole, downside of big dogs is they tend to live shorter lives.

    Medium is always the way to go. I don't want a dog I have to bend down to the floor to pet, feels like a recipe for back problems!
    How about a budgie?
    Tasty, but not more than a snack I am afraid
  • Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ' More than a third of farmed fruit and vegetables never reaches supermarket shelves because it is misshapen or the wrong size, according to new research.

    A University of Edinburgh study found more than 50 million tonnes of fruit and vegetables grown across Europe were discarded each year. '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-45238732

    Worth remembering when some farmer who wont off fair pay and conditions wails that crops are going unharvested.

    And puts a new perspective on the foodbank issue.

    I am at a complete loss to see the link between the story and your comments.
    The wailing about a few strawberries (usually Scottish strawberries) being left behind is put into perspective by all the fruit and veg which is wasted because it is the wrong shape.

    And how many people could be fed by all this wasted fruit and veg if it was instead given away or sold at a nominal price ?
    So why the comment about fair wages?

    By all means say that this is wasteful and inefficient, because it is. The CAP and CFP are run by people who would fail a Village Idiot interview for being overqualified.

    But the point about labour shortages/low pay in the agricultural sector is a separate issue and it didn't add anything to your point. Indeed, it obscured it entirely.
    The combination of the two things highlight the ridiculousness of the 'no strawberry left behind' position.

    Not only could more crops be harvested if farmers offered fair pay and conditions but also the loss of food production through crops not being picked is minor compared to the crops which are picked and then wasted.
    Surely the difference is that misshapen fruit are not saleable, while unpicked premium fruit are?
    They should be sellable albeit at a lower price.

    Plus there are the issues of food wastage in moral terms, food poverty / higher food prices and damage to the environment from excess production
  • Do we have any PB Manchester United supporters who come from Manchester or even Lancashire ?

    As opposed to Scotland, Wales or London :wink:

    I was born 5 miles from Old Trafford. Is that OK
    So are you a Lloyd George Welshman or an Edward I Englishman ?

    :wink:
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,635
    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    ' More than a third of farmed fruit and vegetables never reaches supermarket shelves because it is misshapen or the wrong size, according to new research.

    A University of Edinburgh study found more than 50 million tonnes of fruit and vegetables grown across Europe were discarded each year. '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-45238732

    Worth remembering when some farmer who wont off fair pay and conditions wails that crops are going unharvested.

    And puts a new perspective on the foodbank issue.

    I am at a complete loss to see the link between the story and your comments.
    He’s saying that a huge amount of food gets thrown away not because it doesn’t meet hygiene standards, but because it doesn’t meet standards for appearance and size of the EU and of the supermarket purchasers.

    What we should do is allow a clearing house to be set up, so that food banks and commercial kitchens can get this produce, rather than it being left to rot in fields.
    So why is it the fault of farmers for not offering fair wages?
    It’s not - but he’s making the point that when they complain about food being wasted because they can’t employ pickers on derisory rates of pay they are being somewhat disingenuous
    As an aside, can this be spun as an anti-EU straight bananas story, and will it be?
    The EU's agricultural policies are usually well-meaning - except over public health emergencies where they blatantly favour whoever the Commissioner is closest to - but they are grossly incompetent and ridiculously expensive. Nobody with any sense would have come up with any of the different forms of CAP over the years. Frankly, although irritating the wastefulness of their 'minimum standards' is very minor by comparison with the 1990s habit of actually burning harvested crops to keep prices up.

    We do have the opportunity as we are leaving to come up with something better, and we may need to if Europe refuses a trade deal on food. An obvious course of action would be to say that as food security is so important farmers will be guaranteed a minimum income, on a top-up scheme. This would hopefully both increase production and reduce subsidies.

    Whether we have the politicians with the will and imagination to implement improved policies of any sort is another question. Having suffered under Gove I am sceptical.
    I think Gove is exactly the right person at DEFRA. As the CAP ends he’ll be prepared to think outside the box and look at how we can maximise production, as opposed to maximising subsidy which is how farmers currently work.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ' More than a third of farmed fruit and vegetables never reaches supermarket shelves because it is misshapen or the wrong size, according to new research.

    A University of Edinburgh study found more than 50 million tonnes of fruit and vegetables grown across Europe were discarded each year. '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-45238732

    Worth remembering when some farmer who wont off fair pay and conditions wails that crops are going unharvested.

    And puts a new perspective on the foodbank issue.

    I am at a complete loss to see the link between the story and your comments.
    The wailing about a few strawberries (usually Scottish strawberries) being left behind is put into perspective by all the fruit and veg which is wasted because it is the wrong shape.

    And how many people could be fed by all this wasted fruit and veg if it was instead given away or sold at a nominal price ?
    So why the comment about fair wages?

    By all means say that this is wasteful and inefficient, because it is. The CAP and CFP are run by people who would fail a Village Idiot interview for being overqualified.

    But the point about labour shortages/low pay in the agricultural sector is a separate issue and it didn't add anything to your point. Indeed, it obscured it entirely.
    The combination of the two things highlight the ridiculousness of the 'no strawberry left behind' position.

    Not only could more crops be harvested if farmers offered fair pay and conditions but also the loss of food production through crops not being picked is minor compared to the crops which are picked and then wasted.
    Sky had a news segment on EE workers on farms fruit picking. They went on location to a farm in Hereford and asked a young EE lady did she come fruit picking to meet her colleagues from last year. She said "I come because I earn a lot of money, (pause) a lot of money". They can earn over a 1000 per week. Then they took the cameras to where they lived and 700 workers were housed in mobile homes in a large field. They all seemed very content with the wages and the accommodation.
    Then they had a Scottish fruit farmer on who moaned that the when it was too hot the EE workers did not turn up and went sightseeing and she could not get staff.
    It just gave the impression of treat your workers well and they will reward you.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Virat Kohli should declare that and see if he can bowl England out tonight to get a week off.

    Even for me that’s a bit dangerous, but an overnight declaration with a target of 330-350 isn’t out of the question. Who wants to play cricket on Tuesday or Wednesday, surely they’ve booked their tee times already?
    When even Pujara is thrashing them at eight an over, that is a sign of a side in terminal disarray. I say get them in and get them out.

    There is talk of resting Anderson and Broad from the winter tours, but I would have said the key players to leave at home are Root and Cook.
    That's making the assumption that Broad deserves a place on the winter tour.
    No it isn't, although I can see how you can read it that way (my turn to not be clear)! It's simply saying that Cook and Root both need a rest. It would also be a way of gracefully easing Root out of the captaincy which he is clearly not suited to.
    Root has never been the same since last year's Headingley declaration and defeat.
  • Do we have any PB Manchester United supporters who come from Manchester or even Lancashire ?

    As opposed to Scotland, Wales or London :wink:

    I was born 5 miles from Old Trafford. Is that OK
    So are you a Lloyd George Welshman or an Edward I Englishman ?

    :wink:
    My Father was English from Bolton and my Mother was from the Lloyd family in North Wales.

    So have mixed loyalties.

    Add to that my wife is from a North East Scottish Fishing generation so we have UK covered apart from NI
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201

    Do we have any PB Manchester United supporters who come from Manchester or even Lancashire ?

    As opposed to Scotland, Wales or London :wink:

    I was born 5 miles from Old Trafford. Is that OK
    Would that be Eastlands?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,635
    edited August 2018
    It must be so tempting for India to declare with 20 minutes to go tonight and 330 up, 45 minutes from now.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ' More than a third of farmed fruit and vegetables never reaches supermarket shelves because it is misshapen or the wrong size, according to new research.

    A University of Edinburgh study found more than 50 million tonnes of fruit and vegetables grown across Europe were discarded each year. '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-45238732

    Worth remembering when some farmer who wont off fair pay and conditions wails that crops are going unharvested.

    And puts a new perspective on the foodbank issue.

    I am at a complete loss to see the link between the story and your comments.
    The wailing about a few strawberries (usually Scottish strawberries) being left behind is put into perspective by all the fruit and veg which is wasted because it is the wrong shape.

    And how many people could be fed by all this wasted fruit and veg if it was instead given away or sold at a nominal price ?
    So why the comment about fair wages?

    By all means say that this is wasteful and inefficient, because it is. The CAP and CFP are run by people who would fail a Village Idiot interview for being overqualified.

    But the point about labour shortages/low pay in the agricultural sector is a separate issue and it didn't add anything to your point. Indeed, it obscured it entirely.
    The combination of the two things highlight the ridiculousness of the 'no strawberry left behind' position.

    Not only could more crops be harvested if farmers offered fair pay and conditions but also the loss of food production through crops not being picked is minor compared to the crops which are picked and then wasted.
    Sky had a news segment on EE workers on farms fruit picking. They went on location to a farm in Hereford and asked a young EE lady did she come fruit picking to meet her colleagues from last year. She said "I come because I earn a lot of money, (pause) a lot of money". They can earn over a 1000 per week. Then they took the cameras to where they lived and 700 workers were housed in mobile homes in a large field. They all seemed very content with the wages and the accommodation.
    Then they had a Scottish fruit farmer on who moaned that the when it was too hot the EE workers did not turn up and went sightseeing and she could not get staff.
    It just gave the impression of treat your workers well and they will reward you.
    Indeed.

    I'll also add that employers who live in big houses and rake in the profits are not going to have a contented or productive workforce if they try to keep the wages down.
  • Do we have any PB Manchester United supporters who come from Manchester or even Lancashire ?

    As opposed to Scotland, Wales or London :wink:

    I was born 5 miles from Old Trafford. Is that OK
    Would that be Eastlands?
    No Whitefield and it is 8 miles away. Sorry if I misled the distance

    And as a baby I was sheltered under a steel table as Hitler's V bombs came over, one stopping directly over our house and landing nearby killing six.

    Scary times
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    edited August 2018
    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    ' More than a third of farmed fruit and vegetables never reaches supermarket shelves because it is misshapen or the wrong size, according to new research.

    A University of Edinburgh study found more than 50 million tonnes of fruit and vegetables grown across Europe were discarded each year. '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-45238732

    Worth remembering when some farmer who wont off fair pay and conditions wails that crops are going unharvested.

    And puts a new perspective on the foodbank issue.

    I am at a complete loss to see the link between the story and your comments.
    He’s saying that a huge amount of food gets thrown away not because it doesn’t meet hygiene standards, but because it doesn’t meet standards for appearance and size of the EU and of the supermarket purchasers.

    What we should do is allow a clearing house to be set up, so that food banks and commercial kitchens can get this produce, rather than it being left to rot in fields.
    So why is it the fault of farmers for not offering fair wages?
    It’s not - but he’s making the point that when they complain about food being wasted because they can’t employ pickers on derisory rates of pay they are being somewhat disingenuous
    As an aside, can this be spun as an anti-EU straight bananas story, and will it be?


    We do have the opportunity as we are leaving to come up with something better, and we may need to if Europe refuses a trade deal on food. An obvious course of action would be to say that as food security is so important farmers will be guaranteed a minimum income, on a top-up scheme. This would hopefully both increase production and reduce subsidies.

    Whether we have the politicians with the will and imagination to implement improved policies of any sort is another question. Having suffered under Gove I am sceptical.
    Over on the Agricultural Economic Society website there are presentations of research done by various Unis and think tanks on what happens to Agri/Farming with various brexit scenarios. If we have no FTA with the EU and apply the CET to EU and RoW, then the impact on farmers could be dramatic. Beef and dairy farmers incomes could double and with significant production increases. A point of interest was that wheat and barley farmers would see no change.
  • tlg86 said:

    Arsène Wenger is available if United are looking for a new manager.

    So is Alan Pardew.
  • Why - seems reasonable to me
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,437
    Question.

    What should the squad for Sri Lanka and West Indies be?

    Let's start with who should not be going. Anderson, to rest that shoulder, Broad, who is not the force he was, Root, because he's lost his way, Cook, because he may be over the hill, Jennings, because he isn't good enough.

    So that's most of the experienced core of the team out of the running.

    For batsmen, I am not convinced by Pope. I think he's looked a bit skittish. However, I may be wrong, and he probably deserves at least to be on the tour given his record for Surrey. I am still less convinced by Buttler, but we need a back up keeper so he may as well travel.

    For openers, realistically only Rory Burns has done well for his county and not failed for England. So he should probably go. Absent other alternatives, Joe Denly of Kent might also be worth a look. Perhaps Hameed if he can remember which way up to hold his bat. Or Dominic Sibley as an outsider.

    For the middle order, I would be controversial and pick Ian Bell. He's old, but he's looked much better this season and in the absence of other seniors he would be useful for younger players to lean on. I would also send Moeen Ali for much the same reason and because he would provide an extra spin option. Probably Liam Livingstone and perhaps Tom Abell to round out the squad.

    For bowlers, Woakes, Stokes and Curran pick themselves. Rashid more or less has to go although I'm still not convinced. Jamie Overton if he's fit. Porter as backup. I would also probably send Chris Jordan. I know he can blow hot and cold but he's bowling well this season (Gillespie's influence?) and he's got Test experience which may come in handy. For the spare spinner, probably Leach ahead of Bess.

    That gives us:
    Burns
    Denly
    Bell
    Pope
    Bairstow
    Stokes
    Ali
    Woakes
    Overton
    Curran
    Rashid

    And as reserves
    Livingstone
    Abell
    Porter
    Jordan
    Leach
    Buttler.

    Which leaves the question, who should captain? Bell might be a possibility but I think not, on the whole. Stokes - no. Bairstow - would be asking a lot. So I would give the captaincy to Woakes. He did a good job for the Lions as I recall.

    Of course, thus will never ever happen as Ed Smith will just pick the same old failures. But it would be good to experiment a bit with so many senior players clearly at the end of their careers and others at the end of their tethers.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,181
    I'm sure there is panic there and has been for months, that's not new information, what about that indicates there is rising panic? I mean, given how loathed her deal was upon arrival, and reportedly trashed by the Commission from the get go, it's not as though they can have been sanguine before now.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201

    Do we have any PB Manchester United supporters who come from Manchester or even Lancashire ?

    As opposed to Scotland, Wales or London :wink:

    I was born 5 miles from Old Trafford. Is that OK
    Would that be Eastlands?
    No Whitefield and it is 8 miles away. Sorry if I misled the distance

    And as a baby I was sheltered under a steel table as Hitler's V bombs came over, one stopping directly over our house and landing nearby killing six.

    Scary times
    Eastlands is where Citeh stadium is, I was pulling your leg.
    My father was born in Wythenshawe and he used to hide under the stairs. Seeing as he is into steam trains as well you should get on like a house on fire, he is a blue though.
  • tlg86 said:

    Arsène Wenger is available if United are looking for a new manager.

    So is Alan Pardew.
    He would be better than Mourinho - indeed anybody would
  • Sandpit said:

    It must be so tempting for India to declare with 20 minutes to go tonight and 330 up, 45 minutes from now.

    There seem so many pathetic performances from teams in Test matches these days.

    I don't mean when one side is clearly and continuously inferior to the other but when one side is pathetic in one Test and then the other side is pathetic in the next Test.
  • surbysurby Posts: 1,227

    tlg86 said:

    Arsène Wenger is available if United are looking for a new manager.

    So is Alan Pardew.
    Pardew is too expensive! Approx. £2m per win. Ask WBA.
  • Do we have any PB Manchester United supporters who come from Manchester or even Lancashire ?

    As opposed to Scotland, Wales or London :wink:

    I was born 5 miles from Old Trafford. Is that OK
    Would that be Eastlands?
    No Whitefield and it is 8 miles away. Sorry if I misled the distance

    And as a baby I was sheltered under a steel table as Hitler's V bombs came over, one stopping directly over our house and landing nearby killing six.

    Scary times
    Eastlands is where Citeh stadium is, I was pulling your leg.
    My father was born in Wythenshawe and he used to hide under the stairs. Seeing as he is into steam trains as well you should get on like a house on fire, he is a blue though.
    My Father supported both United and City. He argued they were both from the City and we should be supporting Manchester.

    I have no problem with City supporters who have a wonderful team just now

    Some years ago now when Alex was in his prime I went to a meeting and was speaking to Bobby (Charlton) about our success and in his down to earth no nonsense response agreed but said to enjoy it while it lasts as success in football comes and goes.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,635

    Sandpit said:

    It must be so tempting for India to declare with 20 minutes to go tonight and 330 up, 45 minutes from now.

    There seem so many pathetic performances from teams in Test matches these days.

    I don't mean when one side is clearly and continuously inferior to the other but when one side is pathetic in one Test and then the other side is pathetic in the next Test.
    Agreed. England haven’t really showed up to this one, and India didn’t show up to the last one.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,754
    edited August 2018
    kle4 said:

    I'm sure there is panic there and has been for months, that's not new information, what about that indicates there is rising panic? I mean, given how loathed her deal was upon arrival, and reportedly trashed by the Commission from the get go, it's not as though they can have been sanguine before now.
    Why would he suddenly start tweeting about the Sun poll today and going back to promoting the Chequers plan? From a quick search I can't see that he's ever referred to polls on Brexit since working for the government.
  • tlg86 said:

    Arsène Wenger is available if United are looking for a new manager.

    So is Alan Pardew.
    He would be better than Mourinho - indeed anybody would
    It might not matter who your manager is.

    Clubs can have decades of failure, sometimes generations of failure.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mr. Glenn, mildly surprised at your disbelief. Do you think there is a shift to Remain, or Leave, in the country?

    Ah I see now. That poll is a month old and comes from the link below. Deltapoll haven't published their tables yet for the poll featured in today's Sun.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/polls/brext-chequers-may-conservatives
    If anything today's Sun poll suggests a slight swing to Leave from that poll but even the earlier Deltapoll was post Chequers Deal so I doubt much has changed since
    What's Deltapoll's record in General Elections?
    I don't think it was around last time but it has former ICM and YouGov pollsters on its board

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/who-we-are
    Martin “polling disaster” Boon?
    ICM was one of the few pollsters to predict Leave would win the EU referendum in its final poll
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,754
    edited August 2018
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mr. Glenn, mildly surprised at your disbelief. Do you think there is a shift to Remain, or Leave, in the country?

    Ah I see now. That poll is a month old and comes from the link below. Deltapoll haven't published their tables yet for the poll featured in today's Sun.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/polls/brext-chequers-may-conservatives
    If anything today's Sun poll suggests a slight swing to Leave from that poll but even the earlier Deltapoll was post Chequers Deal so I doubt much has changed since
    What's Deltapoll's record in General Elections?
    I don't think it was around last time but it has former ICM and YouGov pollsters on its board

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/who-we-are
    Martin “polling disaster” Boon?
    ICM was one of the few pollsters to predict Leave would win the EU referendum in its final poll
    That might be because their last poll was before Jo Cox was murdered when most of the pollsters were saying Leave were ahead.

    https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/742654947276259330
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    kle4 said:

    I'm sure there is panic there and has been for months, that's not new information, what about that indicates there is rising panic? I mean, given how loathed her deal was upon arrival, and reportedly trashed by the Commission from the get go, it's not as though they can have been sanguine before now.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6042765/EU-offer-UK-stay-single-market-goods-without-free-movement.html
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mr. Glenn, mildly surprised at your disbelief. Do you think there is a shift to Remain, or Leave, in the country?

    Ah I see now. That poll is a month old and comes from the link below. Deltapoll haven't published their tables yet for the poll featured in today's Sun.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/polls/brext-chequers-may-conservatives
    If anything today's Sun poll suggests a slight swing to Leave from that poll but even the earlier Deltapoll was post Chequers Deal so I doubt much has changed since
    What's Deltapoll's record in General Elections?
    I don't think it was around last time but it has former ICM and YouGov pollsters on its board

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/who-we-are
    Martin “polling disaster” Boon?
    ICM was one of the few pollsters to predict Leave would win the EU referendum in its final poll
    That might be because their last poll was before Jo Cox was murdered when most of the pollsters were saying Leave were ahead.

    https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/742654947276259330
    Whether the Jo Cox murder sad as it was made a huge difference is debateable, after all Leave still won and BMG and Comres had Remain ahead before the murder and TNS and Opinium had Leave still ahead even after the murder even if most pollsters had Remain ahead in their final polls

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,754
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mr. Glenn, mildly surprised at your disbelief. Do you think there is a shift to Remain, or Leave, in the country?

    Ah I see now. That poll is a month old and comes from the link below. Deltapoll haven't published their tables yet for the poll featured in today's Sun.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/polls/brext-chequers-may-conservatives
    If anything today's Sun poll suggests a slight swing to Leave from that poll but even the earlier Deltapoll was post Chequers Deal so I doubt much has changed since
    What's Deltapoll's record in General Elections?
    I don't think it was around last time but it has former ICM and YouGov pollsters on its board

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/who-we-are
    Martin “polling disaster” Boon?
    ICM was one of the few pollsters to predict Leave would win the EU referendum in its final poll
    That might be because their last poll was before Jo Cox was murdered when most of the pollsters were saying Leave were ahead.

    https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/742654947276259330
    Whether the Jo Cox murder sad as it was made a huge difference is debateable, after all Leave still won and BMG and Comres had Remain ahead before the murder and TNS and Opinium had Leave still ahead even after the murder even if most pollsters had Remain ahead in their final polls

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum
    Whether it made a difference is debatable. The timing of the last ICM poll isn't, nor is the fact that 9 our of 11 polls before then had Leave ahead.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mr. Glenn, mildly surprised at your disbelief. Do you think there is a shift to Remain, or Leave, in the country?

    Ah I see now. That poll is a month old and comes from the link below. Deltapoll haven't published their tables yet for the poll featured in today's Sun.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/polls/brext-chequers-may-conservatives
    If anything today's Sun poll suggests a slight swing to Leave from that poll but even the earlier Deltapoll was post Chequers Deal so I doubt much has changed since
    What's Deltapoll's record in General Elections?
    I don't think it was around last time but it has former ICM and YouGov pollsters on its board

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/who-we-are
    Martin “polling disaster” Boon?
    ICM was one of the few pollsters to predict Leave would win the EU referendum in its final poll
    That might be because their last poll was before Jo Cox was murdered when most of the pollsters were saying Leave were ahead.

    https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/742654947276259330
    Whether the Jo Cox murder sad as it was made a huge difference is debateable, after all Leave still won and BMG and Comres had Remain ahead before the murder and TNS and Opinium had Leave still ahead even after the murder even if most pollsters had Remain ahead in their final polls

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum
    Whether it made a difference is debatable. The timing of the last ICM poll isn't, nor is the fact that 9 our of 11 polls before then had Leave ahead.
    Last *published* poll. Didn’t they go exclusive with someone?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,221
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    It must be so tempting for India to declare with 20 minutes to go tonight and 330 up, 45 minutes from now.

    There seem so many pathetic performances from teams in Test matches these days.

    I don't mean when one side is clearly and continuously inferior to the other but when one side is pathetic in one Test and then the other side is pathetic in the next Test.
    Agreed. England haven’t really showed up to this one, and India didn’t show up to the last one.
    Close series often contain sequences of wildly one sided matches. Close tests like Edgbaston don't happen so often.
  • It does seem the big money pouring into the peoples vote is going to be counter productive.

    It enforces the view that an elite and well financed group are actively trying to overthrow the referendum which in itself is not a good look.

    Also no one has explained how we get to a peoples vote. If TM suggested it she would be toast so how else can a bill be put to Parliament to enable a vote.

    Furthermore who would decide on the wording, the margin of victory, and as important how could the remain side obtain an EU approved directive that we would rejoin with all the present opt outs and rebates.

    Finally how can this all be done within a time frame that would need at least six weeks to campaign.

    The practicalities sink it for me but as I have said I have an open mind and need convincing by the more resolute remainers that it is even a possibility
  • More bizarre captaincy from Root.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,754
    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mr. Glenn, mildly surprised at your disbelief. Do you think there is a shift to Remain, or Leave, in the country?

    Ah I see now. That poll is a month old and comes from the link below. Deltapoll haven't published their tables yet for the poll featured in today's Sun.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/polls/brext-chequers-may-conservatives
    If anything today's Sun poll suggests a slight swing to Leave from that poll but even the earlier Deltapoll was post Chequers Deal so I doubt much has changed since
    What's Deltapoll's record in General Elections?
    I don't think it was around last time but it has former ICM and YouGov pollsters on its board

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/who-we-are
    Martin “polling disaster” Boon?
    ICM was one of the few pollsters to predict Leave would win the EU referendum in its final poll
    That might be because their last poll was before Jo Cox was murdered when most of the pollsters were saying Leave were ahead.

    https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/742654947276259330
    Whether the Jo Cox murder sad as it was made a huge difference is debateable, after all Leave still won and BMG and Comres had Remain ahead before the murder and TNS and Opinium had Leave still ahead even after the murder even if most pollsters had Remain ahead in their final polls

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum
    Whether it made a difference is debatable. The timing of the last ICM poll isn't, nor is the fact that 9 our of 11 polls before then had Leave ahead.
    Last *published* poll. Didn’t they go exclusive with someone?
    Good point. Not sure...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    edited August 2018

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mr. Glenn, mildly surprised at your disbelief. Do you think there is a shift to Remain, or Leave, in the country?

    Ah I see now. That poll is a month old and comes from the link below. Deltapoll haven't published their tables yet for the poll featured in today's Sun.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/polls/brext-chequers-may-conservatives
    If anything today's Sun poll suggests a slight swing to Leave from that poll but even the earlier Deltapoll was post Chequers Deal so I doubt much has changed since
    What's Deltapoll's record in General Elections?
    I don't think it was around last time but it has former ICM and YouGov pollsters on its board

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/who-we-are
    Martin “polling disaster” Boon?
    ICM was one of the few pollsters to predict Leave would win the EU referendum in its final poll
    That might be because their last poll was before Jo Cox was murdered when most of the pollsters were saying Leave were ahead.

    https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/742654947276259330
    Whether the Jo Cox murder sad as it was made a huge difference is debateable, after all Leave still won and BMG and Comres had Remain ahead before the murder and TNS and Opinium had Leave still ahead even after the murder even if most pollsters had Remain ahead in their final polls

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum
    Whether it made a difference is debatable. The timing of the last ICM poll isn't, nor is the fact that 9 our of 11 polls before then had Leave ahead.
    Of the final published polls by pollsters 8/11 had Remain ahead (ICM, TNS and Opinium the only pollsters to correctly call it for Leave), it was silent Leave voters that won it for Leave with the others
  • Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mr. Glenn, mildly surprised at your disbelief. Do you think there is a shift to Remain, or Leave, in the country?

    Ah I see now. That poll is a month old and comes from the link below. Deltapoll haven't published their tables yet for the poll featured in today's Sun.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/polls/brext-chequers-may-conservatives
    If anything today's Sun poll suggests a slight swing to Leave from that poll but even the earlier Deltapoll was post Chequers Deal so I doubt much has changed since
    What's Deltapoll's record in General Elections?
    I don't think it was around last time but it has former ICM and YouGov pollsters on its board

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/who-we-are
    Martin “polling disaster” Boon?
    ICM was one of the few pollsters to predict Leave would win the EU referendum in its final poll
    That might be because their last poll was before Jo Cox was murdered when most of the pollsters were saying Leave were ahead.

    https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/742654947276259330
    Whether the Jo Cox murder sad as it was made a huge difference is debateable, after all Leave still won and BMG and Comres had Remain ahead before the murder and TNS and Opinium had Leave still ahead even after the murder even if most pollsters had Remain ahead in their final polls

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum
    Whether it made a difference is debatable. The timing of the last ICM poll isn't, nor is the fact that 9 our of 11 polls before then had Leave ahead.
    Last *published* poll. Didn’t they go exclusive with someone?
    Good point. Not sure...
    They went exclusive for Vote Leave.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,881
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mr. Glenn, mildly surprised at your disbelief. Do you think there is a shift to Remain, or Leave, in the country?

    Ah I see now. That poll is a month old and comes from the link below. Deltapoll haven't published their tables yet for the poll featured in today's Sun.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/polls/brext-chequers-may-conservatives
    If anything today's Sun poll suggests a slight swing to Leave from that poll but even the earlier Deltapoll was post Chequers Deal so I doubt much has changed since
    What's Deltapoll's record in General Elections?
    I don't think it was around last time but it has former ICM and YouGov pollsters on its board

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/who-we-are
    Martin “polling disaster” Boon?
    ICM was one of the few pollsters to predict Leave would win the EU referendum in its final poll
    That might be because their last poll was before Jo Cox was murdered when most of the pollsters were saying Leave were ahead.

    https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/742654947276259330
    Whether the Jo Cox murder sad as it was made a huge difference is debateable, after all Leave still won and BMG and Comres had Remain ahead before the murder and TNS and Opinium had Leave still ahead even after the murder even if most pollsters had Remain ahead in their final polls

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum
    Whether it made a difference is debatable. The timing of the last ICM poll isn't, nor is the fact that 9 our of 11 polls before then had Leave ahead.
    Of the final published polls by pollsters 8/11 had Remain ahead (ICM, TNS and Opinium the only pollsters to correctly call it for Leave), it was silent Leave voters that won it for Leave with the others
    Or the modelling last time was wrong.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mr. Glenn, mildly surprised at your disbelief. Do you think there is a shift to Remain, or Leave, in the country?

    Ah I see now. That poll is a month old and comes from the link below. Deltapoll haven't published their tables yet for the poll featured in today's Sun.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/polls/brext-chequers-may-conservatives
    If anything today's Sun poll suggests a slight swing to Leave from that poll but even the earlier Deltapoll was post Chequers Deal so I doubt much has changed since
    What's Deltapoll's record in General Elections?
    I don't think it was around last time but it has former ICM and YouGov pollsters on its board

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/who-we-are
    Martin “polling disaster” Boon?
    ICM was one of the few pollsters to predict Leave would win the EU referendum in its final poll
    That might be because their last poll was before Jo Cox was murdered when most of the pollsters were saying Leave were ahead.

    https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/742654947276259330
    Whether the Jo Cox murder sad as it was made a huge difference is debateable, after all Leave still won and BMG and Comres had Remain ahead before the murder and TNS and Opinium had Leave still ahead even after the murder even if most pollsters had Remain ahead in their final polls

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum
    Whether it made a difference is debatable. The timing of the last ICM poll isn't, nor is the fact that 9 our of 11 polls before then had Leave ahead.
    Of the final published polls by pollsters 8/11 had Remain ahead (ICM, TNS and Opinium the only pollsters to correctly call it for Leave), it was silent Leave voters that won it for Leave with the others
    Or the modelling last time was wrong.
    The 'silent' Leave voters are likely still with us
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,881

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ' More than a third of farmed fruit and vegetables never reaches supermarket shelves because it is misshapen or the wrong size, according to new research.

    A University of Edinburgh study found more than 50 million tonnes of fruit and vegetables grown across Europe were discarded each year. '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-45238732

    Worth remembering when some farmer who wont off fair pay and conditions wails that crops are going unharvested.

    And puts a new perspective on the foodbank issue.

    I am at a complete loss to see the link between the story and your comments.
    The wailing about a few strawberries (usually Scottish strawberries) being left behind is put into perspective by all the fruit and veg which is wasted because it is the wrong shape.

    And how many people could be fed by all this wasted fruit and veg if it was instead given away or sold at a nominal price ?
    So why the comment about fair wages?

    By all means say that this is wasteful and inefficient, because it is. The CAP and CFP are run by people who would fail a Village Idiot interview for being overqualified.

    But the point about labour shortages/low pay in the agricultural sector is a separate issue and it didn't add anything to your point. Indeed, it obscured it entirely.
    The combination of the two things highlight the ridiculousness of the 'no strawberry left behind' position.

    Not only could more crops be harvested if farmers offered fair pay and conditions but also the loss of food production through crops not being picked is minor compared to the crops which are picked and then wasted.
    Surely the difference is that misshapen fruit are not saleable, while unpicked premium fruit are?
    They should be sellable albeit at a lower price.

    Plus there are the issues of food wastage in moral terms, food poverty / higher food prices and damage to the environment from excess production
    https://www.wonkyvegboxes.co.uk/about

    https://www.oddbox.co.uk/

    https://www.imperfectproduce.com/

    https://www.hortweek.com/waitrose-launches-misshapen-vegetables-range/fresh-produce/article/1383796
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,754
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mr. Glenn, mildly surprised at your disbelief. Do you think there is a shift to Remain, or Leave, in the country?

    Ah I see now. That poll is a month old and comes from the link below. Deltapoll haven't published their tables yet for the poll featured in today's Sun.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/polls/brext-chequers-may-conservatives
    If anything today's Sun poll suggests a slight swing to Leave from that poll but even the earlier Deltapoll was post Chequers Deal so I doubt much has changed since
    What's Deltapoll's record in General Elections?
    I don't think it was around last time but it has former ICM and YouGov pollsters on its board

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/who-we-are
    Martin “polling disaster” Boon?
    ICM was one of the few pollsters to predict Leave would win the EU referendum in its final poll
    That might be because their last poll was before Jo Cox was murdered when most of the pollsters were saying Leave were ahead.

    https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/742654947276259330
    Whether the Jo Cox murder sad as it was made a huge difference is debateable, after all Leave still won and BMG and Comres had Remain ahead before the murder and TNS and Opinium had Leave still ahead even after the murder even if most pollsters had Remain ahead in their final polls

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum
    Whether it made a difference is debatable. The timing of the last ICM poll isn't, nor is the fact that 9 our of 11 polls before then had Leave ahead.
    Of the final published polls by pollsters 8/11 had Remain ahead (ICM, TNS and Opinium the only pollsters to correctly call it for Leave), it was silent Leave voters that won it for Leave with the others
    Or the modelling last time was wrong.
    The 'silent' Leave voters are likely still with us
    In a choice between "the Brexit people voted for" aka Chequers, and Remain, would they turn out to vote?
  • HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mr. Glenn, mildly surprised at your disbelief. Do you think there is a shift to Remain, or Leave, in the country?

    Ah I see now. That poll is a month old and comes from the link below. Deltapoll haven't published their tables yet for the poll featured in today's Sun.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/polls/brext-chequers-may-conservatives
    If anything today's Sun poll suggests a slight swing to Leave from that poll but even the earlier Deltapoll was post Chequers Deal so I doubt much has changed since
    What's Deltapoll's record in General Elections?
    I don't think it was around last time but it has former ICM and YouGov pollsters on its board

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/who-we-are
    Martin “polling disaster” Boon?
    ICM was one of the few pollsters to predict Leave would win the EU referendum in its final poll
    That might be because their last poll was before Jo Cox was murdered when most of the pollsters were saying Leave were ahead.

    https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/742654947276259330
    Whether the Jo Cox murder sad as it was made a huge difference is debateable, after all Leave still won and BMG and Comres had Remain ahead before the murder and TNS and Opinium had Leave still ahead even after the murder even if most pollsters had Remain ahead in their final polls

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum
    Whether it made a difference is debatable. The timing of the last ICM poll isn't, nor is the fact that 9 our of 11 polls before then had Leave ahead.
    Of the final published polls by pollsters 8/11 had Remain ahead (ICM, TNS and Opinium the only pollsters to correctly call it for Leave), it was silent Leave voters that won it for Leave with the others
    Or the modelling last time was wrong.
    The 'silent' Leave voters are likely still with us
    In a choice between "the Brexit people voted for" aka Chequers, and Remain, would they turn out to vote?
    As I asked earlier how are you getting to the vote and questions
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,141
    Regarding Deltapoll, they did do us the courtesy of introducing themselves in a PB article. I know collectively PB has the memory of a goldfish with alzheimers, but come on... :)

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/03/12/just-launched-new-pollster-featuring-martn-boon-and-joe-twyman-formerly-of-icm-and-yougov/
This discussion has been closed.