I think that making threats about grounding planes isn’t negotiating in good faith. More seriously the threats about the Northern Ireland border are in incredibly bad faith, unless you believe that the EU would actually build a fence and customs posts across Ireland?
The EU isn't making any such threats stop being silly.
For a start it doesn't have to. Business has a very active imagination when it comes to worst case scenarios, as we are finding out.
Can someone explain to me how the Brexiteers will secure Airbus in the UK on a hard Brexit
Not one Brexiteer has answered the question other than say it is a scare story.
Come on Brexiteers now is your chance to lay out how you guarantee these jobs
I have no doubt whatsoever that the UK government will engage constructively with industry and with specific businesses where necessary, to work through how to keep their supply chains flowing when we leave the EU.
Re Airbus - not only are 40,000 jobs at risk but over 120,000 in the supply chain.
In North Wales it would be as bad, if not worse, then when the pits closed and we all know the anger and violence that caused.
I am hopeful TM gets a deal, irrespective of the political cost, as there is no other choice but to campaign to remain, and that is a big move in my attitude. I just will not accept a hard Brexit.
It would devastate our economy here in North Wales and we have nothing to replace it with.
The Brexiteers account for 25% of my party's MP's so it is upto the 75% to stand up to this UKIP element and form cross party alliances, excluding Corbyn of course, to act in the National interest
Brexiteers are more like 45% of the parliamentary party, old chum. We are certainly a clear majority of activists and Tory voters.
The idea that Theresa May can lead a cross-party alliance of BINOers in Parliament is fantasy. Labour will oppose, whatever she brings back.
The party membership is like Corbyn but instead of hard left are hard right
There are no more than 80 conservative mps who are in JRM's group which equates to 25%
But like so many you avoid the consequences and cannot tell me how you replace Airbus
If you think most Tory members are hard right, you don’t know what that term means.
Your Airbus hysteria is also getting increasingly ridiculous. British participation in the consortium predates our membership of the EEC. You seem to forget that if the EU makes it impossible for Airbus’ UK operations to play their part in production, they can’t make any planes. If they can’t make any planes, the greatest symbol of Europe’s industrial prowess goes broke. I don’t think the EU wants that.
In a hard Brexit scenario, I would expect that the resulting sharp devaluation of sterling would make Airbus’ U.K. operations competitive, even with customs and regulatory snafus. Your son in law and the rest of us might cut have to cut back on imported BMWs or foreign holidays for a period, but high unemployment is very unlikely.
Typical nonsense on Airbus hysteria. Airbus will take its UK production back to France, Germany and Spain on a hard Brexit and cancel all the new generation of wings.
And I take exception to your patronising comments on my son in law and frankly Brexiteers deserve to see the Country reject Brexit and remain
I think that making threats about grounding planes isn’t negotiating in good faith. More seriously the threats about the Northern Ireland border are in incredibly bad faith, unless you believe that the EU would actually build a fence and customs posts across Ireland?
The EU isn't making any such threats stop being silly.
For a start it doesn't have to. Business has a very active imagination when it comes to worst case scenarios, as we are finding out.
They are saying that British built planes or planes containing British certified parts will no longer be legally airworthy, neither will any British registered planes.
Given there are British parts in both Boeing and Airbus, they plan to ground the entire global aviation industry (bar North Korea)?
Pretty much correct. That document is completely bonkers and would leave only old Soviet planes flying on Brexit day.
I think that making threats about grounding planes isn’t negotiating in good faith. More seriously the threats about the Northern Ireland border are in incredibly bad faith, unless you believe that the EU would actually build a fence and customs posts across Ireland?
The EU isn't making any such threats stop being silly.
For a start it doesn't have to. Business has a very active imagination when it comes to worst case scenarios, as we are finding out.
They are saying that British built planes or planes containing British certified parts will no longer be legally airworthy, neither will any British registered planes.
Given there are British parts in both Boeing and Airbus, they plan to ground the entire global aviation industry (bar North Korea)?
Pretty much correct. That document is completely bonkers and would leave only old Soviet planes flying on Brexit day.
I read this as saying that *new* planes would not be considered airworthy if built with UK parts, not existing certified parts in planes would become uncertified.
I think that making threats about grounding planes isn’t negotiating in good faith. More seriously the threats about the Northern Ireland border are in incredibly bad faith, unless you believe that the EU would actually build a fence and customs posts across Ireland?
The EU isn't making any such threats stop being silly.
For a start it doesn't have to. Business has a very active imagination when it comes to worst case scenarios, as we are finding out.
Can someone explain to me how the Brexiteers will secure Airbus in the UK on a hard Brexit
Not one Brexiteer has answered the question other than say it is a scare story.
Come on Brexiteers now is your chance to lay out how you guarantee these jobs
Not a Brexiteer, but I’m guessing Airbus won’t want to stop production for the 4-5 years it’s going to take to replace the wings coming from the U.K....so I guess something will be worked out.
We only ever hear the “British catastrophe” side of the no-deal story - like yesterday’s “generators for Northern Ireland” - if the Republic refused to supply the North with electricity, how long do you think the lorry queues at Holyhead would be?
The real threat is for the new generation of wings
The expertise is in the U.K. - but apparently the EU is going to ground all planes with British parts in them (which is virtually all of them). The recent Airbus “threat” was to move wing production to.....France. Germany. Italy. Spain. The USA or China.
They already produce wings in Germany and the next generation of wings will be lost on a hard Brexit
Point to note that Airbus just screw the wings together in North Wales. The clever technology and parts made by it for the wings are owned by GKN. The government is rumoured to have a "golden share" in the technology (came from BAE), which has stopped the nice Airbus people from giving it to the Chinese, so the Chinese can make fancy Airbus wings, not bog standard Airbus wings.
Point to note that Airbus just screw the wings together in North Wales. The clever technology and parts made by it for the wings are owned by GKN. The government is rumoured to have a "golden share" in the technology (came from BAE), which has stopped the nice Airbus people from giving it to the Chinese, so the Chinese can make fancy Airbus wings, not bog standard Airbus wings.
But Airbus make wings for the A320 series in China already.
I think that making threats about grounding planes isn’t negotiating in good faith. More seriously the threats about the Northern Ireland border are in incredibly bad faith, unless you believe that the EU would actually build a fence and customs posts across Ireland?
The EU isn't making any such threats stop being silly.
For a start it doesn't have to. Business has a very active imagination when it comes to worst case scenarios, as we are finding out.
Can someone explain to me how the Brexiteers will secure Airbus in the UK on a hard Brexit
Not one Brexiteer has answered the question other than say it is a scare story.
Come on Brexiteers now is your chance to lay out how you guarantee these jobs
Not a Brexiteer, but I’m guessing Airbus won’t want to stop production for the 4-5 years it’s going to take to replace the wings coming from the U.K....so I guess something will be worked out.
We only ever hear the “British catastrophe” side of the no-deal story - like yesterday’s “generators for Northern Ireland” - if the Republic refused to supply the North with electricity, how long do you think the lorry queues at Holyhead would be?
The real threat is for the new generation of wings
The expertise is in the U.K. - but apparently the EU is going to ground all planes with British parts in them (which is virtually all of them). The recent Airbus “threat” was to move wing production to.....France. Germany. Italy. Spain. The USA or China.
Moving production is certainly possible. You're building to a drawing, and to well documented processes. It would not be easy, but the basic skills required are similar to those for building the fuselage. The design expertise would be much, much harder to replicate. Losing decades of lessons-learned would be a disaster for Airbus and would probably make them uncompetitive against Boeing through to 2035.
But to say the manufacturing jobs are not at risk is simply untrue.
I think that making threats about grounding planes isn’t negotiating in good faith. More seriously the threats about the Northern Ireland border are in incredibly bad faith, unless you believe that the EU would actually build a fence and customs posts across Ireland?
The EU isn't making any such threats stop being silly.
For a start it doesn't have to. Business has a very active imagination when it comes to worst case scenarios, as we are finding out.
Can someone explain to me how the Brexiteers will secure Airbus in the UK on a hard Brexit
Not one Brexiteer has answered the question other than say it is a scare story.
Come on Brexiteers now is your chance to lay out how you guarantee these jobs
I have no doubt whatsoever that the UK government will engage constructively with industry and with specific businesses where necessary, to work through how to keep their supply chains flowing when we leave the EU.
Airbus has already written to its workforce expressing real concern and the good news this week was that they welcome TM white paper, but we have the Brexiteers wanting to sabotage any deal with the EU, and have no interest in business, typified by Johnson FO to their CEO
It would devastate our economy here in North Wales and
The Brexiteers account for 25% of my party's MP's so it is upto the 75% to stand up to this UKIP element and form cross party alliances, excluding Corbyn of course, to act in the National interest
Brexiteers are more like 45% of the parliamentary party, old chum. We are certainly a clear majority of activists and Tory voters.
The idea that Theresa May can lead a cross-party alliance of BINOers in Parliament is fantasy. Labour will oppose, whatever she brings back.
The party membership is like Corbyn but instead of hard left are hard right
There are no more than 80 conservative mps who are in JRM's group which equates to 25%
But like so many you avoid the consequences and cannot tell me how you replace Airbus
If you think most Tory members are hard right, you don’t know what that term means.
Your Airbus hysteria is also getting increasingly ridiculous. British participation in the consortium predates our membership of the EEC. You seem to forget that if the EU makes it impossible for Airbus’ UK operations to play their part in production, they can’t make any planes. If they can’t make any planes, the greatest symbol of Europe’s industrial prowess goes broke. I don’t think the EU wants that.
In a hard Brexit scenario, I would expect that the resulting sharp devaluation of sterling would make Airbus’ U.K. operations competitive, even with customs and regulatory snafus. Your son in law and the rest of us might cut have to cut back on imported BMWs or foreign holidays for a period, but high unemployment is very unlikely.
Typical nonsense on Airbus hysteria. Airbus will take its UK production back to France, Germany and Spain on a hard Brexit and cancel all the new generation of wings.
And I take exception to your patronising comments on my son in law and frankly Brexiteers deserve to see the Country reject Brexit and remain
I understand your entirely appropriate concern about your son-in-law’s future, but suggest you pause for a second and think a bit about some of the things being claimed. If “British made parts” lose certification on Brexit day, that grounds virtually the entire GLOBAL aviation industry. Do you think that likely?
Similarly all these apocalyptic scenarios are shown as only effecting Britain - but if the Republic refuses to supply the North with electricity, you don’t think they might face consequences?
There’s a wider point than Airbus. The government is currently looking hostile to business. Why would a multinational invest here rather than elsewhere in Europe? Business concerns are clearly being subordinated to a doctrinaire ideology.
Point to note that Airbus just screw the wings together in North Wales. The clever technology and parts made by it for the wings are owned by GKN. The government is rumoured to have a "golden share" in the technology (came from BAE), which has stopped the nice Airbus people from giving it to the Chinese, so the Chinese can make fancy Airbus wings, not bog standard Airbus wings.
But Airbus make wings for the A320 series in China already.
I think that making threats about grounding planes isn’t negotiating in good faith. More seriously the threats about the Northern Ireland border are in incredibly bad faith, unless you believe that the EU would actually build a fence and customs posts across Ireland?
The EU isn't making any such threats stop being silly.
For a start it doesn't have to. Business has a very active imagination when it comes to worst case scenarios, as we are finding out.
They are saying that British built planes or planes containing British certified parts will no longer be legally airworthy, neither will any British registered planes.
Given there are British parts in both Boeing and Airbus, they plan to ground the entire global aviation industry (bar North Korea)?
Pretty much correct. That document is completely bonkers and would leave only old Soviet planes flying on Brexit day.
I read this as saying that *new* planes would not be considered airworthy if built with UK parts, not existing certified parts in planes would become uncertified.
So presumably planes built with “new” EU parts would not be able fly to or over the U.K. until a deal had been done?
Point to note that Airbus just screw the wings together in North Wales. The clever technology and parts made by it for the wings are owned by GKN. The government is rumoured to have a "golden share" in the technology (came from BAE), which has stopped the nice Airbus people from giving it to the Chinese, so the Chinese can make fancy Airbus wings, not bog standard Airbus wings.
But Airbus make wings for the A320 series in China already.
Correct and they made the older lower tech wings and if they need the state of the art UK made components at GKN they are exported. The Chinese want complete access to the manufacturing process that GKN have because it can be used in military planes.
Brexiteers are more like 45% of the parliamentary party, old chum. We are certainly a clear majority of activists and Tory voters.
The idea that Theresa May can lead a cross-party alliance of BINOers in Parliament is fantasy. Labour will oppose, whatever she brings back.
The party membership is like Corbyn but instead of hard left are hard right
There are no more than 80 conservative mps who are in JRM's group which equates to 25%
But like so many you avoid the consequences and cannot tell me how you replace Airbus
Typical nonsense on Airbus hysteria. Airbus will take its UK production back to France, Germany and Spain on a hard Brexit and cancel all the new generation of wings.
And I take exception to your patronising comments on my son in law and frankly Brexiteers deserve to see the Country reject Brexit and remain
I understand your entirely appropriate concern about your son-in-law’s future, but suggest you pause for a second and think a bit about some of the things being claimed. If “British made parts” lose certification on Brexit day, that grounds virtually the entire GLOBAL aviation industry. Do you think that likely?
Similarly all these apocalyptic scenarios are shown as only effecting Britain - but if the Republic refuses to supply the North with electricity, you don’t think they might face consequences?
The certification thing is bullshit, I agree. An A380-sized red herring.
But a sharp increase in Airbus costs through tariffs combined with the political desire to move all of Airbus into the EU would almost certainly lead to no major component assembly in the UK. Big G is right to very worried.
Re Airbus - not only are 40,000 jobs at risk but over 120,000 in the supply
I am hopeful TM gets a deal,
Brexiteers are more like 45% of the parliamentary party, old chum. We are certainly a clear majority of activists and Tory voters.
The idea that Theresa May can lead a cross-party alliance of BINOers in Parliament is fantasy. Labour will oppose, whatever she brings back.
The party membership is like Corbyn but instead of hard left are hard right
There are no more than 80 conservative mps who are in JRM's group which equates to 25%
But like so many you avoid the consequences and cannot tell me how you replace Airbus
If you think most Tory members are hard right, you don’t know what that term means.
Your Airbus hysteria is also getting increasingly ridiculous. British participation in the consortium predates our membership of the EEC. You seem to forget that if the EU makes it impossible for Airbus’ UK operations to play their part in production, they can’t make any planes. If they can’t make any planes, the greatest symbol of Europe’s industrial prowess goes broke. I don’t think the EU wants that.
In a hard Brexit scenario, I would expect that the resulting sharp devaluation of sterling would make Airbus’ U.K. operations competitive, even with customs and regulatory snafus. Your son in law and the rest of us might cut have to cut back on imported BMWs or foreign holidays for a period, but high unemployment is very unlikely.
Typical nonsense on Airbus hysteria. Airbus will take its UK production back to France, Germany and Spain on a hard Brexit and cancel all the new generation of wings.
And I take exception to your patronising comments on my son in law and frankly Brexiteers deserve to see the Country reject Brexit and remain
How can it take production back when it has never manufactured wings in those countries? It’s not as simple as putting the machines in a lorry, driving them over and pressing the green button. They’d have to persuade people like your son-in-law to move, or spend years training replacements.
There is also nothing patronising about pointing out the consequences of devaluation for the whole population. Other posters have pointed out how practicalities mean that your fears are exaggerated, but you cannot be reasoned with on this topic. I won’t waste any more energy or time trying to do so.
I think that making threats about grounding planes isn’t negotiating in good faith. More seriously the threats about the Northern Ireland border are in incredibly bad faith, unless you believe that the EU would actually build a fence and customs posts across Ireland?
The EU isn't making any such threats stop being silly.
For a start it doesn't have to. Business has a very active imagination when it comes to worst case scenarios, as we are finding out.
They are saying that British built planes or planes containing British certified parts will no longer be legally airworthy, neither will any British registered planes.
Given there are British parts in both Boeing and Airbus, they plan to ground the entire global aviation industry (bar North Korea)?
Pretty much correct. That document is completely bonkers and would leave only old Soviet planes flying on Brexit day.
I read this as saying that *new* planes would not be considered airworthy if built with UK parts, not existing certified parts in planes would become uncertified.
I read it as saying that the type approval holder would lose their certification, which would normally mean that parts become un-airworthy. I could quite well imagine the EU “clarifying” their document to mean that only British registered planes would be grounded though.
If we assume your definition, then planes not registered in the U.K. would gradually be grounded due to lack of spare parts as they wear out.
As others have said it’s the one area where I am sure agreement will happen, if necessary by ICAO banging heads together and telling the EU to be adults about Brexit.
In the event that the Chequers proposals are unacceptable to the EU, I think it’s going to be necessary in a number of areas to bring in international arbitration to sort things out.
I'd love to know the overlap of people who thought the UK would hold the whip hand over the EU due to its large trade deficit with the EU and those who thought Scotland would get screwed in an Independence scenario due to, err, Scotland's large trade deficit with the rUK.
I think that making threats about grounding planes isn’t negotiating in good faith. More seriously the threats about the Northern Ireland border are in incredibly bad faith, unless you believe that the EU would actually build a fence and customs posts across Ireland?
The EU isn't making any such threats stop being silly.
For a start it doesn't have to. Business has a very active imagination when it comes to worst case scenarios, as we are finding out.
Can someone explain to me how the Brexiteers will secure Airbus in the UK on a hard Brexit
Not one Brexiteer has answered the question other than say it is a scare story.
Come on Brexiteers now is your chance to lay out how you guarantee these jobs
I have no doubt whatsoever that the UK government will engage constructively with industry and with specific businesses where necessary, to work through how to keep their supply chains flowing when we leave the EU.
Airbus has already written to its workforce expressing real concern and the good news this week was that they welcome TM white paper, but we have the Brexiteers wanting to sabotage any deal with the EU, and have no interest in business, typified by Johnson FO to their CEO
I thought Johnson's F*** Business was aimed at the CBI. At least that was his version of events afterwards.
Brexiteers are more like 45% of the parliamentary party, old chum. We are certainly a clear majority of activists and Tory voters.
The idea that Theresa May can lead a cross-party alliance of BINOers in Parliament is fantasy. Labour will oppose, whatever she brings back.
The party membership is like Corbyn but instead of hard left are hard right
There are no more than 80 conservative mps who are in JRM's group which equates to 25%
But like so many you avoid the consequences and cannot tell me how you replace Airbus
Typical nonsense on Airbus hysteria. Airbus will take its UK production back to France, Germany and Spain on a hard Brexit and cancel all the new generation of wings.
And I take exception to your patronising comments on my son in law and frankly Brexiteers deserve to see the Country reject Brexit and remain
I understand your entirely appropriate concern about your son-in-law’s future, but suggest you pause for a second and think a bit about some of the things being claimed. If “British made parts” lose certification on Brexit day, that grounds virtually the entire GLOBAL aviation industry. Do you think that likely?
Similarly all these apocalyptic scenarios are shown as only effecting Britain - but if the Republic refuses to supply the North with electricity, you don’t think they might face consequences?
The certification thing is bullshit, I agree. An A380-sized red herring.
But a sharp increase in Airbus costs through tariffs combined with the political desire to move all of Airbus into the EU would almost certainly lead to no major component assembly in the UK. Big G is right to very worried.
What are tariffs on aviation parts? We keep being told EU tariffs are low. The greatest risk to Airbus production in North Wales are U.K. government (Corbyn?) policies....
Also Airbus here design and manufacture the entire fuel system for every Airbus plane and for half the planes the undercarriage are all designed and made here. 10,000 Airbus parts (thats not the volume made, but the number of individual parts in the designs) are made by 3,000 firms. Airbus are really an assembly shop, plus design and R&D.
Brexiteers are more like 45% of the parliamentary party, old chum. We are certainly a clear majority of activists and Tory voters.
The idea that Theresa May can lead a cross-party alliance of BINOers in Parliament is fantasy. Labour will oppose, whatever she brings back.
The party membership is like Corbyn but instead of hard left are hard right
There are no more than 80 conservative mps who are in JRM's group which equates to 25%
But like so many you avoid the consequences and cannot tell me how you replace Airbus
Typical nonsense on Airbus hysteria. Airbus will take its UK production back to France, Germany and Spain on a hard Brexit and cancel all the new generation of wings.
And I take exception to your patronising comments on my son in law and frankly Brexiteers deserve to see the Country reject Brexit and remain
I understand your entirely appropriate concern about your son-in-law’s future, but suggest you pause for a second and think a bit about some of the things being claimed. If “British made parts” lose certification on Brexit day, that grounds virtually the entire GLOBAL aviation industry. Do you think that likely?
Similarly all these apocalyptic scenarios are shown as only effecting Britain - but if the Republic refuses to supply the North with electricity, you don’t think they might face consequences?
The certification thing is bullshit, I agree. An A380-sized red herring.
But a sharp increase in Airbus costs through tariffs combined with the political desire to move all of Airbus into the EU would almost certainly lead to no major component assembly in the UK. Big G is right to very worried.
You’re talking as if corporations have absolute power. They don’t.
If Airbus indicates they planned to do what Big G feared, the British government could nationalise their U.K. operations, as Rolls-Royce was in the 70s. Airbus would then have the choice of reversing course or seeing production grind to a halt. Could they sue? Of course, but they wouldn’t get the benefits quickly enough to avoidl bankruptcy.
I understand your entirely appropriate concern about your son-in-law’s future, but suggest you pause for a second and think a bit about some of the things being claimed. If “British made parts” lose certification on Brexit day, that grounds virtually the entire GLOBAL aviation industry. Do you think that likely?
Similarly all these apocalyptic scenarios are shown as only effecting Britain - but if the Republic refuses to supply the North with electricity, you don’t think they might face consequences?
The certification thing is bullshit, I agree. An A380-sized red herring.
But a sharp increase in Airbus costs through tariffs combined with the political desire to move all of Airbus into the EU would almost certainly lead to no major component assembly in the UK. Big G is right to very worried.
What are tariffs on aviation parts? We keep being told EU tariffs are low. The greatest risk to Airbus production in North Wales are U.K. government (Corbyn?) policies....
Let's just say the Germans have been after this for 30 years, and Boris's comments combined with the uncertainties surrounding Brexit have given them a golden excuse to move.
I understand your entirely appropriate concern about your son-in-law’s future, but suggest you pause for a second and think a bit about some of the things being claimed. If “British made parts” lose certification on Brexit day, that grounds virtually the entire GLOBAL aviation industry. Do you think that likely?
Similarly all these apocalyptic scenarios are shown as only effecting Britain - but if the Republic refuses to supply the North with electricity, you don’t think they might face consequences?
No - they are two different issues. The nonsense on grounding planes is not going to happen and is just crass.
However, the highly technical, high skill assembly of most Airbus wings in North Wales is directly under threat on a hard Brexit as made clear by their CEO to all their workforce in a letter. They will complete the A380 wings but that market has died and there is therefore a need to guarantee the next generation of wings for North Wales.
I do like to be polite but to come attack from Brexiteers as hysteric and my son in law and others can accept a poorer standard of living as a result of being sacrificed on the altar of Brexit is not acceptable to me
There’s a wider point than Airbus. The government is currently looking hostile to business. Why would a multinational invest here rather than elsewhere in Europe? Business concerns are clearly being subordinated to a doctrinaire ideology.
The certification thing is bullshit, I agree. An A380-sized red herring.
But a sharp increase in Airbus costs through tariffs combined with the political desire to move all of Airbus into the EU would almost certainly lead to no major component assembly in the UK. Big G is right to very worried.
You’re talking as if corporations have absolute power. They don’t.
If Airbus indicates they planned to do what Big G feared, the British government could nationalise their U.K. operations, as Rolls-Royce was in the 70s. Airbus would then have the choice of reversing course or seeing production grind to a halt. Could they sue? Of course, but they wouldn’t get the benefits quickly enough to avoidl bankruptcy.
Threat to industry = Nationalise it!! Bankrupt the parent company!!! That'll show johnny foreigner!!!!
I think that making threats about grounding planes isn’t negotiating in good faith. More seriously the threats about the Northern Ireland border are in incredibly bad faith, unless you believe that the EU would actually build a fence and customs posts across Ireland?
The EU isn't making any such threats stop being silly.
For a start it doesn't have to. Business has a very active imagination when it comes to worst case scenarios, as we are finding out.
Can someone explain to me how the Brexiteers will secure Airbus in the UK on a hard Brexit
Not one Brexiteer has answered the question other than say it is a scare story.
Come on Brexiteers now is your chance to lay out how you guarantee these jobs
I have no doubt whatsoever that the UK government will engage constructively with industry and with specific businesses where necessary, to work through how to keep their supply chains flowing when we leave the EU.
Airbus has already written to its workforce expressing real concern and the good news this week was that they welcome TM white paper, but we have the Brexiteers wanting to sabotage any deal with the EU, and have no interest in business, typified by Johnson FO to their CEO
I thought Johnson's F*** Business was aimed at the CBI. At least that was his version of events afterwards.
No - it was directed at Airbus after the CEO letter to their workforce
The certification thing is bullshit, I agree. An A380-sized red herring.
But a sharp increase in Airbus costs through tariffs combined with the political desire to move all of Airbus into the EU would almost certainly lead to no major component assembly in the UK. Big G is right to very worried.
You’re talking as if corporations have absolute power. They don’t.
If Airbus indicates they planned to do what Big G feared, the British government could nationalise their U.K. operations, as Rolls-Royce was in the 70s. Airbus would then have the choice of reversing course or seeing production grind to a halt. Could they sue? Of course, but they wouldn’t get the benefits quickly enough to avoidl bankruptcy.
Threat to industry = Nationalise it!! Bankrupt the parent company!!! That'll show johnny foreigner!!!!
FFS. You're all mad.
It’s a strategic asset. Should Edward Heath have just let Rolls-Royce go bust? Should the government be totally relaxed about the transfer of advanced technology with potential military applications abroad?
Brexiteers are more like 45% of the parliamentary party, old chum. We are certainly a clear majority of activists and Tory voters.
The idea that Theresa May can lead a cross-party alliance of BINOers in Parliament is fantasy. Labour will oppose, whatever she brings back.
The party membership is like Corbyn but instead of hard left are hard right
There are no more than 80 conservative mps who are in JRM's group which equates to 25%
But like so many you avoid the consequences and cannot tell me how you replace Airbus
Typical nonsense on Airbus hysteria. Airbus will take its UK production back to France, Germany and Spain on a hard Brexit and cancel all the new generation of wings.
And I take exception to your patronising comments on my son in law and frankly Brexiteers deserve to see the Country reject Brexit and remain
I understand your entirely appropriate concern about your son-in-law’s future, but suggest you pause for a second and think a bit about some of the things being claimed. If “British made parts” lose certification on Brexit day, that grounds virtually the entire GLOBAL aviation industry. Do you think that likely?
Similarly all these apocalyptic scenarios are shown as only effecting Britain - but if the Republic refuses to supply the North with electricity, you don’t think they might face consequences?
The certification thing is bullshit, I agree. An A380-sized red herring.
But a sharp increase in Airbus costs through tariffs combined with the political desire to move all of Airbus into the EU would almost certainly lead to no major component assembly in the UK. Big G is right to very worried.
What are tariffs on aviation parts? We keep being told EU tariffs are low. The greatest risk to Airbus production in North Wales are U.K. government (Corbyn?) policies....
Brexiteers are more like 45% of the parliamentary party, old chum. We are certainly a clear majority of activists and Tory voters.
The idea that Theresa May can lead a cross-party alliance of BINOers in Parliament is fantasy. Labour will oppose, whatever she brings back.
The party membership is like Corbyn but instead of hard left are hard right
There are no more than 80 conservative mps who are in JRM's group which equates to 25%
But like so many you avoid the consequences and cannot tell me how you replace Airbus
Typical nonsense on Airbus hysteria. Airbus will take its UK production back to France, Germany and Spain on a hard Brexit and cancel all the new generation of wings.
And I take exception to your patronising comments on my son in law and frankly Brexiteers deserve to see the Country reject Brexit and remain
I understand your entirely appropriate concern about your son-in-law’s future, but suggest you pause for a second and think a bit about some of the things being claimed. If “British made parts” lose certification on Brexit day, that grounds virtually the entire GLOBAL aviation industry. Do you think that likely?
Similarly all these apocalyptic scenarios are shown as only effecting Britain - but if the Republic refuses to supply the North with electricity, you don’t think they might face consequences?
The certification thing is bullshit, I agree. An A380-sized red herring.
But a sharp increase in Airbus costs through tariffs combined with the political desire to move all of Airbus into the EU would almost certainly lead to no major component assembly in the UK. Big G is right to very worried.
You’re talking as if corporations have absolute power. They don’t.
If Airbus indicates they planned to do what Big G feared, the British government could nationalise their U.K. operations, as Rolls-Royce was in the 70s. Airbus would then have the choice of reversing course or seeing production grind to a halt. Could they sue? Of course, but they wouldn’t get the benefits quickly enough to avoidl bankruptcy.
Polite question - how would you replace the high skill high paid jobs at Airbus.
Not one Brexiteer had offered an explanation as there is not one
You're assuming that Airbus will (A) go and (B) remain otherwise. Neither assumption is safe.
What I would do is two-fold:
Slash corporation tax to encourage companies to invest in the UK. Abolish Employers NI to encourage companies to pay staff well (and to base well paid jobs in the UK).
Companies get tax relief on most expenditure but get taxed on wages instead.
Incidentally slashing corporation tax if a satisfactory deal with the EU can't be reached as Plan B serves the dual-purpose of both helping us compete for business on a global stage and secondarily undermining Ireland who have been the stubborn spanner in the works in the negotiations. With our corporation tax below Irelands watch and see the jobs relocate here.
We will be in a much better position next March if we’ve spent say £20bn on preparing for no deal, than if we got to the same point and it was all still sitting in the bank - but the planes weren’t flying and Dover was at a standstill.
The problem is that the most intractable and dangerous problems of 'no deal' (i.e. literally no deal, not the hypothetical alternative of agreeing a deal with the EU which gets us amicably to WTO terms) are ones which can't handled unilaterally. Nothing the UK can do on its own will force an Open Skies agreement, make the airworthiness of Airbus wings internationally accepted, allow goods to travel across the channel without disruption, or sort out the legal status of trillions of dollars of cross-border derivative contracts which were written under EU-wide financial regulation.
Pretty much agreed. Things like aircraft type certifications could be sorted via ICAO and the UN, but open skies and the like would indeed need to be discussed with the EU.
The idea that the EU would ground every Airbus, every plane with RR engines and every British pilot on Brexit day - and refuse to discuss the subject between now and then - would almost certainly be illegal under international law.
I’ll bite. Which international laws are you referring to?
Comments
And I take exception to your patronising comments on my son in law and frankly Brexiteers deserve to see the Country reject Brexit and remain
But to say the manufacturing jobs are not at risk is simply untrue.
Similarly all these apocalyptic scenarios are shown as only effecting Britain - but if the Republic refuses to supply the North with electricity, you don’t think they might face consequences?
But a sharp increase in Airbus costs through tariffs combined with the political desire to move all of Airbus into the EU would almost certainly lead to no major component assembly in the UK. Big G is right to very worried.
There is also nothing patronising about pointing out the consequences of devaluation for the whole population. Other posters have pointed out how practicalities mean that your fears are exaggerated, but you cannot be reasoned with on this topic. I won’t waste any more energy or time trying to do so.
If we assume your definition, then planes not registered in the U.K. would gradually be grounded due to lack of spare parts as they wear out.
As others have said it’s the one area where I am sure agreement will happen, if necessary by ICAO banging heads together and telling the EU to be adults about Brexit.
In the event that the Chequers proposals are unacceptable to the EU, I think it’s going to be necessary in a number of areas to bring in international arbitration to sort things out.
https://twitter.com/DJack_Journo/status/1017463842677370880
If Airbus indicates they planned to do what Big G feared, the British government could nationalise their U.K. operations, as Rolls-Royce was in the 70s. Airbus would then have the choice of reversing course or seeing production grind to a halt. Could they sue? Of course, but they wouldn’t get the benefits quickly enough to avoidl bankruptcy.
I understand your entirely appropriate concern about your son-in-law’s future, but suggest you pause for a second and think a bit about some of the things being claimed. If “British made parts” lose certification on Brexit day, that grounds virtually the entire GLOBAL aviation industry. Do you think that likely?
Similarly all these apocalyptic scenarios are shown as only effecting Britain - but if the Republic refuses to supply the North with electricity, you don’t think they might face consequences?
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No - they are two different issues. The nonsense on grounding planes is not going to happen and is just crass.
However, the highly technical, high skill assembly of most Airbus wings in North Wales is directly under threat on a hard Brexit as made clear by their CEO to all their workforce in a letter. They will complete the A380 wings but that market has died and there is therefore a need to guarantee the next generation of wings for North Wales.
I do like to be polite but to come attack from Brexiteers as hysteric and my son in law and others can accept a poorer standard of living as a result of being sacrificed on the altar of Brexit is not acceptable to me
Do the EU have anything like the 25th Amendment?
FFS. You're all mad.
Only a market fundamentalist would think that.
What I would do is two-fold:
Slash corporation tax to encourage companies to invest in the UK.
Abolish Employers NI to encourage companies to pay staff well (and to base well paid jobs in the UK).
Companies get tax relief on most expenditure but get taxed on wages instead.