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  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,757
    Sandpit said:

    Jonathan said:

    So we're building to some kind of climax. Why is this?

    Has the PM simply run out of road down which to kick the can? Has she finally got off the fence and is taking on the Brexit Bastards in the cabinet? Or something else?

    I think she hates making decisions. I think she believes this will p*** off the fewest people. Unfortunately it will definitely p*** off her core vote plus all the people who voted Leave.

    I always believed that our political parties were strong enough to see off the populists. If she does this there will be a new party on the patriotic centre right and god help us all because they will get the F*** You vote.

    What happens if the ERG say they will vote against the government on every motion while the PM remains in office?
    Sadly I think you’re right. So who is the next James Goldsmith or Arron Banks that’s going to bankroll a “Brexit Means Brexit” candidate against every Remain MP at the next election?
    That would be very effective at delivering PM Corbyn. Bring it on!

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,757
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think you could make private sector RTB voluntary. That might work for a lot of people.

    A right, but only if the landlord volunteers it ?!
    Anything more would be state enforced theft of property.
    It's not a right if it's voluntary is it? And it's not theft if you have to pay for it.
    It's theft the minute the choice to sell or not is taken away. Make BTL uneconomic, regulate it to extinction, but enforced sale of private property is not something we should ever introduce.
    Compulsory purchase has been around for years. The only new issue is the rate of compensation.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,869
    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think you could make private sector RTB voluntary. That might work for a lot of people.

    A right, but only if the landlord volunteers it ?!
    Anything more would be state enforced theft of property.
    It's not a right if it's voluntary is it? And it's not theft if you have to pay for it.
    It's theft the minute the choice to sell or not is taken away. Make BTL uneconomic, regulate it to extinction, but enforced sale of private property is not something we should ever introduce.
    Compulsory purchase has been around for years. The only new issue is the rate of compensation.
    Again, a different issue.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,222
    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think you could make private sector RTB voluntary. That might work for a lot of people.

    A right, but only if the landlord volunteers it ?!
    Anything more would be state enforced theft of property.
    It's not a right if it's voluntary is it? And it's not theft if you have to pay for it.
    It's theft the minute the choice to sell or not is taken away. Make BTL uneconomic, regulate it to extinction, but enforced sale of private property is not something we should ever introduce.
    Compulsory purchase has been around for years. The only new issue is the rate of compensation.
    It is above 100% for CP I think. ~ 70% for rtb..
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,635
    edited July 2018
    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think you could make private sector RTB voluntary. That might work for a lot of people.

    A right, but only if the landlord volunteers it ?!
    Anything more would be state enforced theft of property.
    It's not a right if it's voluntary is it? And it's not theft if you have to pay for it.
    It's theft the minute the choice to sell or not is taken away. Make BTL uneconomic, regulate it to extinction, but enforced sale of private property is not something we should ever introduce.
    Compulsory purchase has been around for years. The only new issue is the rate of compensation.
    That is the government acquiring property that is needed for a specific major project - and usually at a substantial premium to the market price. Very different in both concept and execution.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think you could make private sector RTB voluntary. That might work for a lot of people.

    A right, but only if the landlord volunteers it ?!
    Anything more would be state enforced theft of property.
    But that's what the state is doing with Housing Associations.

    Housing Associations are not the government but are being forced to sell off homes.
    Housing associations are the government as much as Network Rail is the government.
    Network Rail borrowing is Government borrowing. Housing Association borrowing is private borrowing.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,635
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Jonathan said:

    So we're building to some kind of climax. Why is this?

    Has the PM simply run out of road down which to kick the can? Has she finally got off the fence and is taking on the Brexit Bastards in the cabinet? Or something else?

    I think she hates making decisions. I think she believes this will p*** off the fewest people. Unfortunately it will definitely p*** off her core vote plus all the people who voted Leave.

    I always believed that our political parties were strong enough to see off the populists. If she does this there will be a new party on the patriotic centre right and god help us all because they will get the F*** You vote.

    What happens if the ERG say they will vote against the government on every motion while the PM remains in office?
    Sadly I think you’re right. So who is the next James Goldsmith or Arron Banks that’s going to bankroll a “Brexit Means Brexit” candidate against every Remain MP at the next election?
    That would be very effective at delivering PM Corbyn. Bring it on!
    A lot of people thought that in 2015.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,757
    Pulpstar said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think you could make private sector RTB voluntary. That might work for a lot of people.

    A right, but only if the landlord volunteers it ?!
    Anything more would be state enforced theft of property.
    It's not a right if it's voluntary is it? And it's not theft if you have to pay for it.
    It's theft the minute the choice to sell or not is taken away. Make BTL uneconomic, regulate it to extinction, but enforced sale of private property is not something we should ever introduce.
    Compulsory purchase has been around for years. The only new issue is the rate of compensation.
    It is above 100% for CP I think. ~ 70% for rtb..
    Yes, it is all about who pays the difference.

    Probably best to put in the tenant's protected tenure first, so the BTL landlords cannot flit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,212
    Though actually after the Brexit vote far right parties in the UK are polling less than far right parties anywhere else in Europe bar Spain and even below One Nation in Australia
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sean_F said:

    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Exactly so. I still find it hard to square seeing actual Tories espousing a policy that I associate with the far left. Let's hope they come back to their senses soon.

    image
    Points 3 and 4 look perfectly sensible to me.
    Right to buy should be extended to private renters or abolished entirely.
    Do you think anyone would let out property, if that were the case?
    I think that would be the point of such a policy, gut the rental sector.
    Where would you expect the 22 year old graduate who just got a job in London to live?
    I didn't say it was a good idea. I'm pretty happy to see the bottom fall out of private rentals, however, introducing RTB in the sector would be too far, even for me.
    Ha, we found the Conservative in you eventually! ;)
    Nothing really conservative about buy to let - as has proportionately reduced the numbers of property/homeowners which are surely a cornerstone of conservativism.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think you could make private sector RTB voluntary. That might work for a lot of people.

    A right, but only if the landlord volunteers it ?!
    Anything more would be state enforced theft of property.
    It's not a right if it's voluntary is it? And it's not theft if you have to pay for it.
    It's theft the minute the choice to sell or not is taken away. Make BTL uneconomic, regulate it to extinction, but enforced sale of private property is not something we should ever introduce.
    Plenty of precendents though... Compulsory purchase, nationalisation, WW1 and 2 land requisitions.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,754
    Priti Patel is on Question Time tonight.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,815
    Mr. Pointer, which of those examples involve individuals being able to procure the property of other people without said people consenting?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,757
    edited July 2018

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think you could make private sector RTB voluntary. That might work for a lot of people.

    A right, but only if the landlord volunteers it ?!
    Anything more would be state enforced theft of property.
    It's not a right if it's voluntary is it? And it's not theft if you have to pay for it.
    It's theft the minute the choice to sell or not is taken away. Make BTL uneconomic, regulate it to extinction, but enforced sale of private property is not something we should ever introduce.
    Plenty of precendents though... Compulsory purchase, nationalisation, WW1 and 2 land requisitions.
    Perhaps the closest parallel would be the Irish land reforms of the late 19th and early 20th Century, with government supervising transfer of freeholds to tenants.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Land_Commission

    Not that it softened the hearts of Irish nationalists!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,815
    Mr. Eagles, reporting that will just make most people think it's fair enough, whilst reminding them that he's in prison.

    Shades of a bus...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    Mr. Pointer, which of those examples involve individuals being able to procure the property of other people without said people consenting?

    Said landlords would be consenting to the BTL option when they signed the lease. As was pointed out down-thread, if they don't like it, don't let the property.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    Priti Patel is on Question Time tonight.

    Is Ian Hislop on, to run rings around her again?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,683
    That Yaxley-Lennon's crew intend to watch a game is something I suppose. Don't they normally just go there for the aggro?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think you could make private sector RTB voluntary. That might work for a lot of people.

    A right, but only if the landlord volunteers it ?!
    Anything more would be state enforced theft of property.
    It's not a right if it's voluntary is it? And it's not theft if you have to pay for it.
    It's theft the minute the choice to sell or not is taken away. Make BTL uneconomic, regulate it to extinction, but enforced sale of private property is not something we should ever introduce.
    Compulsory purchase has been around for years. The only new issue is the rate of compensation.
    It is above 100% for CP I think. ~ 70% for rtb..
    Yes, it is all about who pays the difference.

    Probably best to put in the tenant's protected tenure first, so the BTL landlords cannot flit.
    Agreed.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    Mr. Pointer, which of those examples involve individuals being able to procure the property of other people without said people consenting?

    If it was set up such that the tenant put in a request to the government, the government compulsory purchased from the landlord, then the tenant bought from the government, would that satisfy you?
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    edited July 2018
    Douglas Carswell has just tweeted

    "I quit the ERG because it was insufficiently committed to securing an EU referendum. How odd that it should now be full of people implacably opposed to some perfectly sensible proposals by May"

    He goes on to say in a comment that people should study what's actually being proposed before venting their fury.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    edited July 2018
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Jonathan said:

    So we're building to some kind of climax. Why is this?

    Has the PM simply run out of road down which to kick the can? Has she finally got off the fence and is taking on the Brexit Bastards in the cabinet? Or something else?

    I think she hates making decisions. I think she believes this will p*** off the fewest people. Unfortunately it will definitely p*** off her core vote plus all the people who voted Leave.

    I always believed that our political parties were strong enough to see off the populists. If she does this there will be a new party on the patriotic centre right and god help us all because they will get the F*** You vote.

    What happens if the ERG say they will vote against the government on every motion while the PM remains in office?
    Sadly I think you’re right. So who is the next James Goldsmith or Arron Banks that’s going to bankroll a “Brexit Means Brexit” candidate against every Remain MP at the next election?
    That would be very effective at delivering PM Corbyn. Bring it on!
    A lot of people thought that in 2015.
    Surely only lunatics were thinking PM Corbyn in 2015 (edit - preGE at least)?
  • CynosargesCynosarges Posts: 44
    Alistair,

    Before lecturing 'the right', you, and other members of 'the left' should consider the words of the Sermon on the Mount -

    "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

    Only two days ago, your "disputes panel" whitewashed Jared O'Mara. (Or, perhaps, you support his opinions). I really don't think any Labour member is in a position to lecture others when you welcome people like O'Mara.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    edited July 2018
    O/T:

    Amesbury poisoning: Couple 'handled contaminated item'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44727191

    It seems increasingly plausible that this couple, by chance, picked up something dicarded from the Skripal attack.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    Mr. Pointer, which of those examples involve individuals being able to procure the property of other people without said people consenting?

    If it was set up such that the tenant put in a request to the government, the government compulsory purchased from the landlord, then the tenant bought from the government, would that satisfy you?
    :lol:
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    Alistair,

    Before lecturing 'the right', you, and other members of 'the left' should consider the words of the Sermon on the Mount -

    "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

    Only two days ago, your "disputes panel" whitewashed Jared O'Mara. (Or, perhaps, you support his opinions). I really don't think any Labour member is in a position to lecture others when you welcome people like O'Mara.

    Since when did "the left" equal "Labour"?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,635

    https://twitter.com/FrDe2059/status/1014894571770273793

    .....there are no serious legal reasons to exclude a Brexit deal with single market on goods and partial free movement of people (but with the proper institutional guarantees). Obstacles are political, and if people want to create them, they should justify them as such. For my part, I fail to see why we should refuse by principle to grant the UK the flexibility we have granted to Ukraine. No more, no less.

    That’s a very good article. TL:DR Everyone please grow up and move to a win-win position, rather than the lose-lose position everyone appears to be fixated on.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,815
    Mr. Stereotomy, no, because it would mean the same thing in practice with an added layer of bureaucratic nonsense.

    Mr. Pointer, if the Government proposed making it illegal to buy a car without, at that time, consenting to give it up for current market value if anybody wanted it and had the necessary cash, would you support such a move? If I take your car and leave a cheque behind, would you be content?

    Compulsion by the brute force of the state should be used sparingly, not to meddle in markets to try and win voters' approval.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,701

    Alistair,

    Before lecturing 'the right', you, and other members of 'the left' should consider the words of the Sermon on the Mount -

    "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

    Only two days ago, your "disputes panel" whitewashed Jared O'Mara. (Or, perhaps, you support his opinions). I really don't think any Labour member is in a position to lecture others when you welcome people like O'Mara.

    Alastair's not a member of the Labour party.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,757

    Mr. Eagles, reporting that will just make most people think it's fair enough, whilst reminding them that he's in prison.

    Shades of a bus...

    Could one of the PB legal eagles explain how "Tommy Robinson" could appeal? I understood that he pleaded guilty.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,020

    Alistair,

    Before lecturing 'the right', you, and other members of 'the left' should consider the words of the Sermon on the Mount -

    "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

    Only two days ago, your "disputes panel" whitewashed Jared O'Mara. (Or, perhaps, you support his opinions). I really don't think any Labour member is in a position to lecture others when you welcome people like O'Mara.

    Alastair's not a member of the Labour party.
    Lol, there's a lad with his digit on the throbbing pulse of PB.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,712
    Usual mistake being made on here - people who care passionately about politics assuming that everyone else cares about all the details too.

    The vast majority of people who voted Leave do not care less about the intricacies of Markets or Customs Unions - indeed they were more than happy with the Common Market.

    No - they only care about two things:

    1) We officially leave the EU
    2) Immigration rules change in some way such that it will fall

    Forget everything else.

    As long as the Government delivers 1) and 2) then the overwhelming majority of Con Leave supporters will be more than happy.

  • I've gone all xeno-racist and put a small red and white ribbon on the aerial of my van.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/05/world-cup-england-flag-gareth-southgate-st-georges
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,902
    Sandpit said:

    Jonathan said:

    So we're building to some kind of climax. Why is this?

    Has the PM simply run out of road down which to kick the can? Has she finally got off the fence and is taking on the Brexit Bastards in the cabinet? Or something else?

    I think she hates making decisions. I think she believes this will p*** off the fewest people. Unfortunately it will definitely p*** off her core vote plus all the people who voted Leave.

    I always believed that our political parties were strong enough to see off the populists. If she does this there will be a new party on the patriotic centre right and god help us all because they will get the F*** You vote.

    What happens if the ERG say they will vote against the government on every motion while the PM remains in office?
    Sadly I think you’re right. So who is the next James Goldsmith or Arron Banks that’s going to bankroll a “Brexit Means Brexit” candidate against every Remain MP at the next election?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PrcpbuhIm0
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548

    Alistair,

    Before lecturing 'the right', you, and other members of 'the left' should consider the words of the Sermon on the Mount -

    "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

    Only two days ago, your "disputes panel" whitewashed Jared O'Mara. (Or, perhaps, you support his opinions). I really don't think any Labour member is in a position to lecture others when you welcome people like O'Mara.

    Alastair's not a member of the Labour party.
    Alastair is addressing and lecturing the Right as one; is he not a part of the Left along with Labour?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,757

    Mr. Stereotomy, no, because it would mean the same thing in practice with an added layer of bureaucratic nonsense.

    Mr. Pointer, if the Government proposed making it illegal to buy a car without, at that time, consenting to give it up for current market value if anybody wanted it and had the necessary cash, would you support such a move? If I take your car and leave a cheque behind, would you be content?

    Compulsion by the brute force of the state should be used sparingly, not to meddle in markets to try and win voters' approval.

    To quote from Wikipedia, this seems very much what was done at the tail end of British reform of Irish land

    "A further Land Act, the Land Purchase (Ireland) Act (1909), fostered by the liberal Chief Secretary for Ireland Augustine Birrell, allowed for tenanted land purchase where the owner was unwilling to sell, to be bought by the Commission by compulsory purchase.

    In 1915 Birrell confirmed in Parliament that all Irish land transfers from 1885 to the end of 1914 had cost the British Government £91,768,450, and the tenants had invested a further £1,584,516.[2][3]"

    The problem now being housing rather than farming tenancies, but much the same issue and procedure.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,902
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Jonathan said:

    So we're building to some kind of climax. Why is this?

    Has the PM simply run out of road down which to kick the can? Has she finally got off the fence and is taking on the Brexit Bastards in the cabinet? Or something else?

    I think she hates making decisions. I think she believes this will p*** off the fewest people. Unfortunately it will definitely p*** off her core vote plus all the people who voted Leave.

    I always believed that our political parties were strong enough to see off the populists. If she does this there will be a new party on the patriotic centre right and god help us all because they will get the F*** You vote.

    What happens if the ERG say they will vote against the government on every motion while the PM remains in office?
    Sadly I think you’re right. So who is the next James Goldsmith or Arron Banks that’s going to bankroll a “Brexit Means Brexit” candidate against every Remain MP at the next election?
    That would be very effective at delivering PM Corbyn. Bring it on!
    A lot of people thought that in 2015.
    2017 surely? Ed was leader in 2015.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair,

    Before lecturing 'the right', you, and other members of 'the left' should consider the words of the Sermon on the Mount -

    "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

    Only two days ago, your "disputes panel" whitewashed Jared O'Mara. (Or, perhaps, you support his opinions). I really don't think any Labour member is in a position to lecture others when you welcome people like O'Mara.

    Alastair's not a member of the Labour party.
    Also he spells his first name incorrectly.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    MikeL said:

    Usual mistake being made on here - people who care passionately about politics assuming that everyone else cares about all the details too.

    The vast majority of people who voted Leave do not care less about the intricacies of Markets or Customs Unions - indeed they were more than happy with the Common Market.

    No - they only care about two things:

    1) We officially leave the EU
    2) Immigration rules change in some way such that it will fall

    Forget everything else.

    As long as the Government delivers 1) and 2) then the overwhelming majority of Con Leave supporters will be more than happy.

    Yep.

    The key one in my view (mistaken though I believe voters to be) is immigration. If the government can claim reasonably to have 'ended free movement' - then other things like 'taking a few rules from Brussels' will probably be forgiven. I doubt there are many votes in 'lost trade deals'....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,701
    Foxy said:

    Mr. Eagles, reporting that will just make most people think it's fair enough, whilst reminding them that he's in prison.

    Shades of a bus...

    Could one of the PB legal eagles explain how "Tommy Robinson" could appeal? I understood that he pleaded guilty.
    He's appealing against the (length of the) sentence.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,701

    Alistair,

    Before lecturing 'the right', you, and other members of 'the left' should consider the words of the Sermon on the Mount -

    "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

    Only two days ago, your "disputes panel" whitewashed Jared O'Mara. (Or, perhaps, you support his opinions). I really don't think any Labour member is in a position to lecture others when you welcome people like O'Mara.

    Alastair's not a member of the Labour party.
    Alastair is addressing and lecturing the Right as one; is he not a part of the Left along with Labour?
    No.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    Only two days ago, your "disputes panel" whitewashed Jared O'Mara. (Or, perhaps, you support his opinions). I really don't think any Labour member is in a position to lecture others when you welcome people like O'Mara.

    Before lecturing 'the left', you, and other members of 'the right' should consider the words of the Sermon on the Mount -

    "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

    Huh, weird how that works both ways, isn't it?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,222
    Primani seems to be in good health still.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    MikeL said:

    Usual mistake being made on here - people who care passionately about politics assuming that everyone else cares about all the details too.

    The vast majority of people who voted Leave do not care less about the intricacies of Markets or Customs Unions - indeed they were more than happy with the Common Market.

    No - they only care about two things:

    1) We officially leave the EU
    2) Immigration rules change in some way such that it will fall

    Forget everything else.

    As long as the Government delivers 1) and 2) then the overwhelming majority of Con Leave supporters will be more than happy.

    Yep.

    The key one in my view (mistaken though I believe voters to be) is immigration. If the government can claim reasonably to have 'ended free movement' - then other things like 'taking a few rules from Brussels' will probably be forgiven. I doubt there are many votes in 'lost trade deals'....
    Spot on.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,757

    MikeL said:

    Usual mistake being made on here - people who care passionately about politics assuming that everyone else cares about all the details too.

    The vast majority of people who voted Leave do not care less about the intricacies of Markets or Customs Unions - indeed they were more than happy with the Common Market.

    No - they only care about two things:

    1) We officially leave the EU
    2) Immigration rules change in some way such that it will fall

    Forget everything else.

    As long as the Government delivers 1) and 2) then the overwhelming majority of Con Leave supporters will be more than happy.

    Yep.

    The key one in my view (mistaken though I believe voters to be) is immigration. If the government can claim reasonably to have 'ended free movement' - then other things like 'taking a few rules from Brussels' will probably be forgiven. I doubt there are many votes in 'lost trade deals'....
    The irony of ending free movement without a job offer is that this allows EU workers here, and they have a high employment rate) but penalises the British people who would no longer be able to freely retire to the Costas. Looks like the worst deal possible.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548

    Alistair,

    Before lecturing 'the right', you, and other members of 'the left' should consider the words of the Sermon on the Mount -

    "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

    Only two days ago, your "disputes panel" whitewashed Jared O'Mara. (Or, perhaps, you support his opinions). I really don't think any Labour member is in a position to lecture others when you welcome people like O'Mara.

    Alastair's not a member of the Labour party.
    Alastair is addressing and lecturing the Right as one; is he not a part of the Left along with Labour?
    No.
    So he's a right winger? Or is he scrupulously in the centre, all of the time?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,902

    Only two days ago, your "disputes panel" whitewashed Jared O'Mara. (Or, perhaps, you support his opinions). I really don't think any Labour member is in a position to lecture others when you welcome people like O'Mara.

    Before lecturing 'the left', you, and other members of 'the right' should consider the words of the Sermon on the Mount -

    "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

    Huh, weird how that works both ways, isn't it?
    Er, isn't this thread about Alastair lecturing "the right"?
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    Foxy said:

    MikeL said:

    Usual mistake being made on here - people who care passionately about politics assuming that everyone else cares about all the details too.

    The vast majority of people who voted Leave do not care less about the intricacies of Markets or Customs Unions - indeed they were more than happy with the Common Market.

    No - they only care about two things:

    1) We officially leave the EU
    2) Immigration rules change in some way such that it will fall

    Forget everything else.

    As long as the Government delivers 1) and 2) then the overwhelming majority of Con Leave supporters will be more than happy.

    Yep.

    The key one in my view (mistaken though I believe voters to be) is immigration. If the government can claim reasonably to have 'ended free movement' - then other things like 'taking a few rules from Brussels' will probably be forgiven. I doubt there are many votes in 'lost trade deals'....
    The irony of ending free movement without a job offer is that this allows EU workers here, and they have a high employment rate) but penalises the British people who would no longer be able to freely retire to the Costas. Looks like the worst deal possible.
    How exactly is a job offer going to be defined. Does it have to be skilled work or would it include car washing or waitressing? Who polices if after arrival to demonstrate its real - if you leave after a week say and don't work what happens?
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548

    Alistair,

    Before lecturing 'the right', you, and other members of 'the left' should consider the words of the Sermon on the Mount -

    "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

    Only two days ago, your "disputes panel" whitewashed Jared O'Mara. (Or, perhaps, you support his opinions). I really don't think any Labour member is in a position to lecture others when you welcome people like O'Mara.

    Alastair's not a member of the Labour party.
    Alastair is addressing and lecturing the Right as one; is he not a part of the Left along with Labour?
    No.
    So he's a right winger? Or is he scrupulously in the centre, all of the time?
    And if he's on the right, does that mean he's saying we should all follow his example and bore on about xenophobia all the time to make up for wanting less government?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,222

    Sandpit said:

    Jonathan said:

    So we're building to some kind of climax. Why is this?

    Has the PM simply run out of road down which to kick the can? Has she finally got off the fence and is taking on the Brexit Bastards in the cabinet? Or something else?

    I think she hates making decisions. I think she believes this will p*** off the fewest people. Unfortunately it will definitely p*** off her core vote plus all the people who voted Leave.

    I always believed that our political parties were strong enough to see off the populists. If she does this there will be a new party on the patriotic centre right and god help us all because they will get the F*** You vote.

    What happens if the ERG say they will vote against the government on every motion while the PM remains in office?
    Sadly I think you’re right. So who is the next James Goldsmith or Arron Banks that’s going to bankroll a “Brexit Means Brexit” candidate against every Remain MP at the next election?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PrcpbuhIm0
    Best bit of GE97
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Mr. Eagles, reporting that will just make most people think it's fair enough, whilst reminding them that he's in prison.

    Shades of a bus...

    Why should he not be in prison? It's generally what happens to criminals who repeatedly break the law.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    Mr. Stereotomy, no, because it would mean the same thing in practice with an added layer of bureaucratic nonsense.

    Mr. Pointer, if the Government proposed making it illegal to buy a car without, at that time, consenting to give it up for current market value if anybody wanted it and had the necessary cash, would you support such a move? If I take your car and leave a cheque behind, would you be content?

    Compulsion by the brute force of the state should be used sparingly, not to meddle in markets to try and win voters' approval.


    Your car analogy is flawed. No one is proposing "making it illegal to buy a property without, at that time, consenting to give it up for current market value if anybody wanted it and had the necessary cash"

    That would only happen if you let it out (and you would be doing so in the full knowledge that BTL existed) and to the tenant, not to "anyone who had the necessary cash".
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,701

    Alistair,

    Before lecturing 'the right', you, and other members of 'the left' should consider the words of the Sermon on the Mount -

    "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

    Only two days ago, your "disputes panel" whitewashed Jared O'Mara. (Or, perhaps, you support his opinions). I really don't think any Labour member is in a position to lecture others when you welcome people like O'Mara.

    Alastair's not a member of the Labour party.
    Alastair is addressing and lecturing the Right as one; is he not a part of the Left along with Labour?
    No.
    So he's a right winger? Or is he scrupulously in the centre, all of the time?
    At various stages on PB, Alastair has been declared pro SNP, anti SNP, pro Labour, anti Labour, anti Lib Dem, pro Lib Dem, and on one occasion last year he was accused of writing threads purely to appeal to Tories on PB.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    Foxy said:

    MikeL said:

    Usual mistake being made on here - people who care passionately about politics assuming that everyone else cares about all the details too.

    The vast majority of people who voted Leave do not care less about the intricacies of Markets or Customs Unions - indeed they were more than happy with the Common Market.

    No - they only care about two things:

    1) We officially leave the EU
    2) Immigration rules change in some way such that it will fall

    Forget everything else.

    As long as the Government delivers 1) and 2) then the overwhelming majority of Con Leave supporters will be more than happy.

    Yep.

    The key one in my view (mistaken though I believe voters to be) is immigration. If the government can claim reasonably to have 'ended free movement' - then other things like 'taking a few rules from Brussels' will probably be forgiven. I doubt there are many votes in 'lost trade deals'....
    The irony of ending free movement without a job offer is that this allows EU workers here, and they have a high employment rate) but penalises the British people who would no longer be able to freely retire to the Costas. Looks like the worst deal possible.
    There is no EU right to retire where you want. You have an EU right that if you have a job offer you can not be refused and you have three months to look for work. Any EU national wants to retire in another EU country has to follow that countries rules and apply if required. Money and health cover are usually the main deciders.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Mr. Stereotomy, no, because it would mean the same thing in practice with an added layer of bureaucratic nonsense.

    Mr. Pointer, if the Government proposed making it illegal to buy a car without, at that time, consenting to give it up for current market value if anybody wanted it and had the necessary cash, would you support such a move? If I take your car and leave a cheque behind, would you be content?

    Compulsion by the brute force of the state should be used sparingly, not to meddle in markets to try and win voters' approval.


    Your car analogy is flawed. No one is proposing "making it illegal to buy a property without, at that time, consenting to give it up for current market value if anybody wanted it and had the necessary cash"

    That would only happen if you let it out (and you would be doing so in the full knowledge that BTL existed) and to the tenant, not to "anyone who had the necessary cash".
    Do you think those who buy cars to let them out (Hertz, Europcar etc) should be compelled to sell to anyone who hires a car?
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548

    Alistair,

    Before lecturing 'the right', you, and other members of 'the left' should consider the words of the Sermon on the Mount -

    "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

    Only two days ago, your "disputes panel" whitewashed Jared O'Mara. (Or, perhaps, you support his opinions). I really don't think any Labour member is in a position to lecture others when you welcome people like O'Mara.

    Alastair's not a member of the Labour party.
    Alastair is addressing and lecturing the Right as one; is he not a part of the Left along with Labour?
    No.
    So he's a right winger? Or is he scrupulously in the centre, all of the time?
    At various stages on PB, Alastair has been declared pro SNP, anti SNP, pro Labour, anti Labour, anti Lib Dem, pro Lib Dem, and on one occasion last year he was accused of writing threads purely to appeal to Tories on PB.
    Maybe he prances around the political spectrum and they're all right?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,701

    new thread

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,212
    Hammersmith Pub renamed 'The Trump Arms' for presidential visit by Irish-born landlord Damien Smyth and his New Yorker wife Marian.

    Nigel Farage and Steve Bannon have been invited to a welcome party with hot dogs, cheeseburgers and Trump-themed cocktails and costumes, music and banners recreating the atmosphere of a Trump rally.

    Tickets cost £32 a head


    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/london/pub-renamed-trump-arms-for-presidential-visit-a3879986.html?amp
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,394

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Rules for the councils & housing associations, and buy to let merchants (And their tenants) should be identical.

    Geese, ganders and all that.

    The latter would just disappear. Which would be bad news for anyone who wanted to work or study any distance from their home.
    How would they disappear? BTL landords are hardly going to leave empty, demolish or live in their BTL properties themselves. They could sell them of course...
    I mean that rented property would disappear, if tenants were given the right to buy it at a discount. People don't give their property away.
This discussion has been closed.