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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Hubristic Overreach – what happens to dominant parties

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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298

    Yet again Sterling is rated as England's worst player:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44664229

    He was very poor. Does anybody think he is ever going to score again for England, cos he sure doesn’t like he will anymore soon.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    edited July 2018

    If kane and alli are injured, rather than 60/40 to England (that 538 has it), Sweden are definitely favourite.

    When was Kane injured?
    Last 20 minutes he couldn’t run properly.
    I can't see it mentioned on any reputable newsfeed. Sure he wasn't just knackered?
    Itv pundits were talking about in the wrap up.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,867

    Yet again Sterling is rated as England's worst player:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44664229

    He needs to make way for Rashford against Sweden.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,867
    Yes that's got to be the save of the tournament so far.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,468
    Pulpstar said:

    I'm not sure why it was considered some immutable law that we couldn't win a shootout

    We beat Spain on penalties 4-2 at Euro'96. One of the Spaniards who missed was Fernando Hierro, their current manager.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,867

    If kane and alli are injured, rather than 60/40 to England (that 538 has it), Sweden are definitely favourite.

    When was Kane injured?
    Last 20 minutes he couldn’t run properly.
    I can't see it mentioned on any reputable newsfeed. Sure he wasn't just knackered?
    Itv pundits were talking about in the wrap up.
    Ah ok - switched off as soon as the ads came on.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298

    If kane and alli are injured, rather than 60/40 to England (that 538 has it), Sweden are definitely favourite.

    When was Kane injured?
    Last 20 minutes he couldn’t run properly.
    I can't see it mentioned on any reputable newsfeed. Sure he wasn't just knackered?
    Itv pundits were talking about in the wrap up.
    Ah ok - switched off as soon as the ads came on.
    Don’t blame you!
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    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    RoyalBlue said:

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    Personally I try to channel all my jingoistic tendencies into places where it won't have negative consequences, like sporting competitions, so time to let loose and thrash those damn Swedes in the next round!

    England are the only team in the competition not to represent a nation state - as would be true of Scotland & Wales had they qualified. Whilst we do now see Croatia and Serbia taking part , this was not permitted in the days when they formed areas within Yugoslavia. Why does GB - or the UK - have a special dispensation here? It seems something of an anomaly.
    Because we invented the game!

    One of our many gifts to the world.
    There are loads of similar examples, eg Hong Kong, Greenland, Aruba and Macau. So what? England is a country - that it is in a union with other countries is immaterial.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,850
    edited July 2018
    Dr Foxy's Lenin's Friends top of the Pineapple Pizza League.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,033

    Pickford's save just before their goal was the save of the tournament so far. I'm so glad he saved the penalty, he deserved it after that.

    +1.
    It really was top drawer. We didn't get to see it replayed because they scored from the corner.
    Pickford was one of a number of brave calls Southgate has got right. Tonight was his 7th cap, and at 24 he could have another 3 WC's in him.
    Would have been easy to have persisted with Hart for his "experience".
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,867
    Right, I'm offski. Night all :smile:
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    dixiedean said:

    Pickford's save just before their goal was the save of the tournament so far. I'm so glad he saved the penalty, he deserved it after that.

    +1.
    It really was top drawer. We didn't get to see it replayed because they scored from the corner.
    Pickford was one of a number of brave calls Southgate has got right. Tonight was his 7th cap, and at 24 he could have another 3 WC's in him.
    Would have been easy to have persisted with Hart for his "experience".
    Regardless of what happens now / even if he didn’t save the penalty, Southgate call on Pickford has been inspired selection. Solid and really good distribution from the back.
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    brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    What have we learned so far - France best team so far ?

    I'd put the teams in the following order:

    France
    Brazil
    Belgium
    Croatia
    Uruguay
    England
    Sweden
    Russia

    Belgium and Brazil very close though, probably Uruguay and England close too.
    Yes but once you factor in the draw, your table gives in our half of the draw: Croatia > England > Sweden > Russia. One of that four will play in the World Cup final. And fwiw, the FIFA rankings have England 8 places above Croatia.
    Those rankings aren't quite right - Switzerland 6th, Saudis over Russia ??
    They weight heavily for competitive games (non-friendlies). Russia didn't have to qualify, so haven't played any.
    Asian qualifying involves a large number of games against v poor opposition. So Saudi do well out of it.
    The Swiss have a really good record recently.
    The system needs to be taken with a large pinch of salt, but is the best they can come up with. It has the advantage of being, at least, transparent, for seeding.
    You could take a look at 538's predictor based on their own form assessment. England narrow favourites over Coratia to get to the final from our half of the draw.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2018-world-cup-predictions/bracket/
    Lies, damnlies and statistics...

    Much as I would want to see England beat Sweden, we had hardly any chances from open play tonight. Sweden werent great going forward themselves,

    Nonetheless the dream continues a little longer.

    Croatia are significantly stronger than all the other 3 teams on their side of the draw. On the other side, I really don’t think there is much between them.
    Just a shame Japan went out - great cleaners and littler pickers!
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    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    dixiedean said:

    Pickford's save just before their goal was the save of the tournament so far. I'm so glad he saved the penalty, he deserved it after that.

    +1.
    It really was top drawer. We didn't get to see it replayed because they scored from the corner.
    Pickford was one of a number of brave calls Southgate has got right. Tonight was his 7th cap, and at 24 he could have another 3 WC's in him.
    Would have been easy to have persisted with Hart for his "experience".
    Regardless of what happens now / even if he didn’t save the penalty, Southgate call on Pickford has been inspired selection. Solid and really good distribution from the back.
    Great post.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    edited July 2018
    One other interesting thing. Apparently Steve Holland is the brains behind the tactics / set plays. He has a stellar reputation as a youth coach, developing a lot of talent with Crewe and Chelsea, but failed miserably as a manager.
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    @FrancisUrquhart Guess who Maradona decided to support now Argentina’s out of the WC:

    https://twitter.com/mattzarb/status/1014190012446007301?s=21

    LOL
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    I'm rather late to this. but that's an excellent article by Nick P.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    I have come to the right site, I hope? This used to be politicalbetting.com. Tonight it seems to be all about some guys I've never heard of playing children's games.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,033

    One other interesting thing. Apparently Steve Holland is the brains behind the tactics / set plays. He has a stellar reputation as a youth coach, developing a lot of talent with Crewe and Chelsea, but failed miserably as a manager.

    The "line-out" at corners certainly is interesting. A conundrum for defences to solve. How do you mark your man if he is sandwiched between 2 team mates? Saw Australia do similar when they brought Cahill on in their final game.
    It is nice to see England being innovative, rather than trying to re-fight the previous tournament. Germany and Spain take note.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,033

    dixiedean said:

    Pickford's save just before their goal was the save of the tournament so far. I'm so glad he saved the penalty, he deserved it after that.

    +1.
    It really was top drawer. We didn't get to see it replayed because they scored from the corner.
    Pickford was one of a number of brave calls Southgate has got right. Tonight was his 7th cap, and at 24 he could have another 3 WC's in him.
    Would have been easy to have persisted with Hart for his "experience".
    Regardless of what happens now / even if he didn’t save the penalty, Southgate call on Pickford has been inspired selection. Solid and really good distribution from the back.
    Strange. TSE assured me Mignolet was better.
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    A good article. As I interpret your point, hubristic overreach is when you take actions that your core supporters may like but the general public decide they don't, and so the pendulum swings.

    What happens when politicians eventually have to confront the public and tell them some home truths? For example, interest rates will go up, our debt will cost more, and we can't keep on borrowing to pay for government expenditure with an increasing proportion of retired people? Over the next couple of decades will come a crunch point where people will have to work a lot longer and the state do a lot less. As a society we don't have a right to our relative standard of living - we have to earn it. So will we all then stick our fingers in our ears, vote for unicorns and magic money trees and hope something just comes up?
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    OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469

    I have come to the right site, I hope? This used to be politicalbetting.com. Tonight it seems to be all about some guys I've never heard of playing children's games.

    +1
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,185
    Anazina said:

    The government has a one off opportunity on Friday to deliver the softest of pro-business, pro-economy, pro-London, full FOM, EEA Brexit. I promise you all that, after tonight’s game, no-one is paying attention, and no-one gives a fucking shit.

    17 million voted Leave, about as many as will have watched tonight's football, that is plenty who will
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,859

    I have come to the right site, I hope? This used to be politicalbetting.com. Tonight it seems to be all about some guys I've never heard of playing children's games.

    It’s only once every four years, Richard. Even I can bear a small amount of football at that interval.

    That said, I got a bit bored during extra time and went out for a brief walk. Felt a bit like the beginning of 28 Days Later...
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,859
    Interesting article on the Russia probe:
    https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/07/03/putting-a-face-mine-to-the-risks-posed-by-gop-games-on-mueller-investigation/

    (Marcy Wheeler is a serious journalists, not a conspiracy theorist.)
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,157
    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    The government has a one off opportunity on Friday to deliver the softest of pro-business, pro-economy, pro-London, full FOM, EEA Brexit. I promise you all that, after tonight’s game, no-one is paying attention, and no-one gives a fucking shit.

    17 million voted Leave, about as many as will have watched tonight's football, that is plenty who will
    It’s more true to say that 13.6 million people voted for the dementia tax than it is to say that 17.4 million voted to leave the single market.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,185
    edited July 2018

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    The government has a one off opportunity on Friday to deliver the softest of pro-business, pro-economy, pro-London, full FOM, EEA Brexit. I promise you all that, after tonight’s game, no-one is paying attention, and no-one gives a fucking shit.

    17 million voted Leave, about as many as will have watched tonight's football, that is plenty who will
    It’s more true to say that 13.6 million people voted for the dementia tax than it is to say that 17.4 million voted to leave the single market.
    No it is not as the Tory manifesto contained far more than the dementia tax (which even many if not most Tory voters opposed) whereas all the 17.4 million who voted Leave voted to leave the EU and their key reasons for doing so were regaining sovereignty and reducing immigration according to all the polls, neither of which can be fully achieved by keeping virtually all the EU regulations and directives or by keeping free movement in place and staying in the single market.

    Even if your argument were correct 52% of voters voted Leave with one of the core Leave campaign promises to leave the single market and end free movement but only 42% of voters voted Tory one element of the Tory manifesto being a dementia tax they have now dropped as they failed to win a majority of seats in the House of Commons.

    52% though is a majority unlike 42%


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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,033
    Back to Brexit...yaaawn. This is political and betting remember...more money is being wagered on footy you know.
    In fact, I'd be willing to give you good odds on that...
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    brendan16 said:

    Politicalbetting - the blog that brings you England penalties!

    Let's face it, it's more fun than Br*x*t!
    At least FIFA have done the decent thing and moved the 2022 World Cup to November to avoid the finals clashing with our general election!

    I expect the Cabinet will still be discussing which customs option we go for then as we remain in transition.

    It's going to be weird doing all this in winter in the dark.
    But our general election is due on May 5th 2022 - over 2 months before the scheduled World Cup final!
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    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    The government has a one off opportunity on Friday to deliver the softest of pro-business, pro-economy, pro-London, full FOM, EEA Brexit. I promise you all that, after tonight’s game, no-one is paying attention, and no-one gives a fucking shit.

    17 million voted Leave, about as many as will have watched tonight's football, that is plenty who will
    Wrong. 28 million watched the game. Roll Brexit over. No-one gives a flying fuck anymore.
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    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    I have come to the right site, I hope? This used to be politicalbetting.com. Tonight it seems to be all about some guys I've never heard of playing children's games.

    Lol.

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    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    I mean it. Roll softest Brexit over on Friday and no-one will notice. Once in a lifetime chance for Theresa.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,185
    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    The government has a one off opportunity on Friday to deliver the softest of pro-business, pro-economy, pro-London, full FOM, EEA Brexit. I promise you all that, after tonight’s game, no-one is paying attention, and no-one gives a fucking shit.

    17 million voted Leave, about as many as will have watched tonight's football, that is plenty who will
    Wrong. 28 million watched the game. Roll Brexit over. No-one gives a flying fuck anymore.
    I doubt 28 million watched, 17 million watched the Tunisia match for example and in any case both Remainers and Leavers will have watched the England matches and 17 million for Leave still beat 16 million for Remain and combined 33 million therefore voted in the EU referendum which is still higher than 28 million even if 28 million watched tonight
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    houndtanghoundtang Posts: 450
    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    Personally I try to channel all my jingoistic tendencies into places where it won't have negative consequences, like sporting competitions, so time to let loose and thrash those damn Swedes in the next round!

    England are the only team in the competition not to represent a nation state - as would be true of Scotland & Wales had they qualified. Whilst we do now see Croatia and Serbia taking part , this was not permitted in the days when they formed areas within Yugoslavia. Why does GB - or the UK - have a special dispensation here? It seems something of an anomaly.
    Well we also have four votes out of eight on the International Football Association Board which formally sets the laws of the game, which is another anomaly - it's grandfathered in because we codified the game I guess.

    And there are FIFA members who are not independent states in any case, like British Oversea Territories. It is theoretically possible, though highly implausible, that they could make it to a competition I guess.

    And perhaps other countries within countries would be permitted to play separately if they wanted? Ours don't want to play united.
    Faroe Islands have a team but are not a sovereignty state but an autonomous part of Denmark.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,110
    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    Personally I try to channel all my jingoistic tendencies into places where it won't have negative consequences, like sporting competitions, so time to let loose and thrash those damn Swedes in the next round!

    England are the only team in the competition not to represent a nation state - as would be true of Scotland & Wales had they qualified. Whilst we do now see Croatia and Serbia taking part , this was not permitted in the days when they formed areas within Yugoslavia. Why does GB - or the UK - have a special dispensation here? It seems something of an anomaly.
    Well we also have four votes out of eight on the International Football Association Board which formally sets the laws of the game, which is another anomaly - it's grandfathered in because we codified the game I guess.

    And there are FIFA members who are not independent states in any case, like British Oversea Territories. It is theoretically possible, though highly implausible, that they could make it to a competition I guess.

    And perhaps other countries within countries would be permitted to play separately if they wanted? Ours don't want to play united.
    I passionately dislike football, but ages ago I heard that the bias in FIFA towards England came because we bailed out FIFA after WW2; it was also when we rejoined FIFA. It is something that many other countries are not very happy about.

    Looking at wiki:
    "In 1946 the four British nations returned. On 10 May 1947 a "Match of the Century" between Great Britain and "Rest of Europe XI" was played at Hampden Park in Glasgow before 135,000 spectators – Britain won 6–1. The proceeds from the match, coming to £35 000, were given to FIFA, to help re-launch it after World War II. "

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_FIFA#Post-war_expansion
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,110
    Something concerning going on in Amesbury:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-44707052
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,953
    houndtang said:

    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    Personally I try to channel all my jingoistic tendencies into places where it won't have negative consequences, like sporting competitions, so time to let loose and thrash those damn Swedes in the next round!

    England are the only team in the competition not to represent a nation state - as would be true of Scotland & Wales had they qualified. Whilst we do now see Croatia and Serbia taking part , this was not permitted in the days when they formed areas within Yugoslavia. Why does GB - or the UK - have a special dispensation here? It seems something of an anomaly.
    Well we also have four votes out of eight on the International Football Association Board which formally sets the laws of the game, which is another anomaly - it's grandfathered in because we codified the game I guess.

    And there are FIFA members who are not independent states in any case, like British Oversea Territories. It is theoretically possible, though highly implausible, that they could make it to a competition I guess.

    And perhaps other countries within countries would be permitted to play separately if they wanted? Ours don't want to play united.
    Faroe Islands have a team but are not a sovereignty state but an autonomous part of Denmark.
    There’s actually quite a few differences between membership of FIFA and membership of the UN. Some will be down to political changes in countries over the years, others will be regions that always organised football separately and joined FIFA in their own right.

    Sounds like a fun job for an historian to work through.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,953
    Interesting that while minds were all elsewhere last night, Newsnight aired an opinion piece somewhat counter to the hagiography of the NHS that seems to be everywhere else this week.
    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1013901742394789889
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,053
    edited July 2018
    Sandpit said:





    Sounds like a fun job for an historian to work through.

    There's always the CONIFA World Cup for teams that FIFA have told to go and get fucked. The team representing the Hungarian community of the Carpathians beat Northern Cyprus on penalties in the final this year.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    Never has a thread title - 'hubristic overreach' been so unintentionally relevant!
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Sandpit said:

    Interesting that while minds were all elsewhere last night, Newsnight aired an opinion piece somewhat counter to the hagiography of the NHS that seems to be everywhere else this week. twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1013901742394789889

    I'm not sure that it adds much to informed debate. The NHS is bad. America is worse. Some foreign systems are good. The market is a magic talisman. The End.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Sandpit, good. Worship of the NHS is bloody weird. I can see why people like it, but zealotry is not something I trust.

    Mr. Palmer, indeed, though I do still like Davros' speech about the flaws of democracy and compromising in Genesis of the Daleks.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    Just checked the rates on LadEx for the World Cup (outright). Mildly surprised France are 5.1 (second favourite) and Uruguay 18. Makes it appear the France/Uruguay match is a foregone conclusion.

    Surely Uruguay stand a chance? France are evens to win it. Considering a hedging bet there.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Something concerning going on in Amesbury:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-44707052

    Let us hope it is journalistic overreaction and not a KGB plot to destabilise the England team by poisoning half the West Country.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,066
    edited July 2018

    Something concerning going on in Amesbury:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-44707052

    Let us hope it is journalistic overreaction and not a KGB plot to destabilise the England team by poisoning half the West Country.
    Thank goodness salisbury plain is between me and the dangerous part of wiltshire!

    In all seriousness, hopefully just over caution due to recent events.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,729
    Nigelb said:

    Interesting article on the Russia probe:
    https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/07/03/putting-a-face-mine-to-the-risks-posed-by-gop-games-on-mueller-investigation/

    (Marcy Wheeler is a serious journalists, not a conspiracy theorist.)

    Reading the article and looking at the comments below is chilling.
    It seems that a serious journalist is at risk of harm - and this is in the United States, not a dictatorship.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,312
    I see that last night we reached that part of an (inevitably Scotlandless) international tournament where the touchy bleating about those traitorous Jocks not supporting plucky England has started. I love these fine old traditions.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,953

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting that while minds were all elsewhere last night, Newsnight aired an opinion piece somewhat counter to the hagiography of the NHS that seems to be everywhere else this week. twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1013901742394789889

    I'm not sure that it adds much to informed debate. The NHS is bad. America is worse. Some foreign systems are good. The market is a magic talisman. The End.
    I’m just happy that the BBC are actually giving airtime to someone who doesn’t think the NHS is a religion, or that the only alternative to an NHS is the USA.

    The IEA report is actually very comprehensive and has taken a good look at dozens of health systems around the world looking at what works best.
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    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    The government has a one off opportunity on Friday to deliver the softest of pro-business, pro-economy, pro-London, full FOM, EEA Brexit. I promise you all that, after tonight’s game, no-one is paying attention, and no-one gives a fucking shit.

    17 million voted Leave, about as many as will have watched tonight's football, that is plenty who will
    It’s more true to say that 13.6 million people voted for the dementia tax than it is to say that 17.4 million voted to leave the single market.
    Given the vast majority that wants to reduce immigration, far higher than the Leave majority, it would be political suicide to maintain open immigration.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    I see that last night we reached that part of an (inevitably Scotlandless) international tournament where the touchy bleating about those traitorous Jocks not supporting plucky England has started. I love these fine old traditions.

    If England had lost the game, I expected a private members bill in the HoC preventing ITV from broadcasting England knockout games.

    With Pete Wishart objecting...
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Just checked the rates on LadEx for the World Cup (outright). Mildly surprised France are 5.1 (second favourite) and Uruguay 18. Makes it appear the France/Uruguay match is a foregone conclusion.

    Surely Uruguay stand a chance? France are evens to win it. Considering a hedging bet there.

    Everyone stands a chance but how would you price up a Brazil vs Uruguay semi-final? That is, I think, the problem.

    France is probably man-for-man the best team left in the competition but they are not managed well. Mbappe will probably be the best player in the world soon, as Messi and Ronaldo grow old (sorry, Neymar). Mbappe is 4/1 joint favourite to be named best player (Golden Ball) with Harry Kane and the Frenchman has far stronger claims. Kane is odds-on to be top scorer (Golden Boot) and I fear some punters have confused the two.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    Mr. JohnL, but France would likewise probably face Brazil then., though I hope Belgium wins.

    Interesting Golden Ball note. Might look at that myself.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,850
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting that while minds were all elsewhere last night, Newsnight aired an opinion piece somewhat counter to the hagiography of the NHS that seems to be everywhere else this week. twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1013901742394789889

    I'm not sure that it adds much to informed debate. The NHS is bad. America is worse. Some foreign systems are good. The market is a magic talisman. The End.
    I’m just happy that the BBC are actually giving airtime to someone who doesn’t think the NHS is a religion, or that the only alternative to an NHS is the USA.

    The IEA report is actually very comprehensive and has taken a good look at dozens of health systems around the world looking at what works best.
    But just as the destination needs to be clear, there does need to be a long transition to another system. The NHS is very much a curates egg, but as I tried to get at on Sunday's header, the real challenge to health care is demographic.

    Recent politics does show that our politicians are not very good at major divisive problems. The NHS is likely to remain in the too difficult box.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting that while minds were all elsewhere last night, Newsnight aired an opinion piece somewhat counter to the hagiography of the NHS that seems to be everywhere else this week. twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1013901742394789889

    I'm not sure that it adds much to informed debate. The NHS is bad. America is worse. Some foreign systems are good. The market is a magic talisman. The End.
    I’m just happy that the BBC are actually giving airtime to someone who doesn’t think the NHS is a religion, or that the only alternative to an NHS is the USA.

    The IEA report is actually very comprehensive and has taken a good look at dozens of health systems around the world looking at what works best.
    Consider the back to sleep campaign which cut infant deaths. What were the countries with low cot death rates doing differently? Answer: babies slept on their backs rather than face down. And I may be wrong but I think most of the initiative came from outside the NHS.

    That is what I'd like to see more of. If the NHS scores badly on cancer treatment, then what are foreign oncologists doing that NHS ones are not? Instead we get the NHS is wonderful or its opponents who think good health care is all about insurance forms.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,053
    RM, BFC or PSG must be thinking about prising Kane out of his recently signed mega-contract.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422
    Sandpit said:

    Interesting that while minds were all elsewhere last night, Newsnight aired an opinion piece somewhat counter to the hagiography of the NHS that seems to be everywhere else this week.
    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1013901742394789889

    Few really care about the NHS. They care about the brand and they care about free and accessible at the point of delivery but the mechanics of the system isn't important.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,442
    Dura_Ace said:

    RM, BFC or PSG must be thinking about prising Kane out of his recently signed mega-contract.

    Levy is pretty good at not letting that kind of thing happen.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    I see that last night we reached that part of an (inevitably Scotlandless) international tournament where the touchy bleating about those traitorous Jocks not supporting plucky England has started. I love these fine old traditions.

    Why is Scotland rubbish at football? That's what the SNP should address. It didn't use to be. It cannot be that clubs can't match La Liga for wages because there are many SPL players at the World Cup: just not Scottish ones. There will be a Celtic player facing England in the quarter-final, for instance (assuming Lustig can play).

    So what's gone wrong? Is it the schools? Grassroots clubs? That is what Nicola Sturgeon needs to find out and fix.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,953
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting that while minds were all elsewhere last night, Newsnight aired an opinion piece somewhat counter to the hagiography of the NHS that seems to be everywhere else this week. twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1013901742394789889

    I'm not sure that it adds much to informed debate. The NHS is bad. America is worse. Some foreign systems are good. The market is a magic talisman. The End.
    I’m just happy that the BBC are actually giving airtime to someone who doesn’t think the NHS is a religion, or that the only alternative to an NHS is the USA.

    The IEA report is actually very comprehensive and has taken a good look at dozens of health systems around the world looking at what works best.
    But just as the destination needs to be clear, there does need to be a long transition to another system. The NHS is very much a curates egg, but as I tried to get at on Sunday's header, the real challenge to health care is demographic.

    Recent politics does show that our politicians are not very good at major divisive problems. The NHS is likely to remain in the too difficult box.
    Sadly the list of things in the too-difficult box is getting bigger. The experience of the social care proposals from last year means that situation isn’t going to change any time soon, any politician proposing outside-the-box ideas is more likely to be shouted out with pejorative terms by their opponents than listened to sensibly.

    Your header was very good by the way.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,110

    I see that last night we reached that part of an (inevitably Scotlandless) international tournament where the touchy bleating about those traitorous Jocks not supporting plucky England has started. I love these fine old traditions.

    I think you're rather missing the point about the SNP's antics last night.

    Still, it's good to see you're continuing the fine old tradition of Scotland missing: in your case the point, in the Scottish football team's case, the goal ... ;)
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    So, either of you guys know anything about the illegal activity at the campaign you chaired?

    image
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,312

    I see that last night we reached that part of an (inevitably Scotlandless) international tournament where the touchy bleating about those traitorous Jocks not supporting plucky England has started. I love these fine old traditions.

    I think you're rather missing the point about the SNP's antics last night.

    Still, it's good to see you're continuing the fine old tradition of Scotland missing: in your case the point, in the Scottish football team's case, the goal ... ;)
    Ye shouldnae bother with the footba banter, it's no really your thing.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,110

    I see that last night we reached that part of an (inevitably Scotlandless) international tournament where the touchy bleating about those traitorous Jocks not supporting plucky England has started. I love these fine old traditions.

    I think you're rather missing the point about the SNP's antics last night.

    Still, it's good to see you're continuing the fine old tradition of Scotland missing: in your case the point, in the Scottish football team's case, the goal ... ;)
    Ye shouldnae bother with the footba banter, it's no really your thing.
    And winning isn't yours ... ;)
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    F1: still only four markets up. Nothing especially tempts. Be interesting to see the classified odds, if they ever emerge, given Mercedes' double DNF, and problems for Red Bull and Renault as well.
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