Four times since the referendum I’ve seen or experienced verbal attacks along the lines of ‘Fuck off home we voted Brexit’, most recently last month in Leeds from supporters of Tommy Robinson, directed towards a Polish chap.
Pre-Brexit Tommy Robinson and his supporters were jolly nice chaps who wouldn't say a mean thing to anyone.
Is that your proposition?
No.
I’m saying thoughts and views like that are more public and widespread.
Brexit seems to have legitimised such views in their minds.
It is no coincidence that on PB those most upset at the incarceration of Tommy Robinson voted Leave.
Four times since the referendum I’ve seen or experienced verbal attacks along the lines of ‘Fuck off home we voted Brexit’, most recently last month in Leeds from supporters of Tommy Robinson, directed towards a Polish chap.
Pre-Brexit Tommy Robinson and his supporters were jolly nice chaps who wouldn't say a mean thing to anyone.
Is that your proposition?
They obviously felt that abusing Europeans was acceptable whereas they would be in danger of arrest and prosecution if they tried it with other groups.
The acceptable face of racism, if you like.
That is what has become legitimised and all the PB Leavers who refuse to acknowledge this must face up to what has been unleashed. But of course they won't. They'll bang on about how some bloke they drink with down the pub is Polish and he is a right nice bloke.
(Snip) The In campaign found it incredibly difficult to say anything positive about the EU. Many of the leaders of the In campaign had won a lot of cheap votes over the years by criticising it and pretending to be more sceptical than they actually proved to be. Nick Clegg was an exception but he had been damaged by the Coalition. I really don't feel that way but I can well imagine that those who think that the EU is a worthy institution must have suffered very similar frustrations to those I felt in Scotland.
I think the lesson in both is that fear is rarely enough. It will win some votes but to get over the top you need to have a convincing case for what you want. Better together found its true voice very much at the last minute and not without some equivocation. The remain campaign did not.
Leavers found it impossible to listen to anything positive about the EU, and to this day confuse euroscepticism with their own europhobia.
Some did but those were votes remain was never going to win. There were lots more people like me who wondered if it was worth the candle, worth losing Cameron and Osborne over, whether there were more important things to expend our energy on.
But the more I looked at what the EU was as an institution, the way it did things and most importantly its direction of travel the more I became persuaded that we should leave. People criticise the incoherence of the Leave vision, and rightly so. But if we had remained what kind of EU did we want to be a part of? Did we want to be at its heart, as per Blair, or in a more associate role hiding behind opt outs? How were we going to resolve the issue of the EZ and QMV? Remain had no answer to these and many other questions. No one really sold a positive vision of what life in the EU would be like in 10-20 years. They deserved to lose.
Some of us voted Leave with the specific aim of wishing to get rid of Cameron and Osborne - and remain very content that that was achieved! I have not had strong feelings re-the EU for several decades , but had become very disturbed by the scaremongering campaigning style adopted by both at the 2015 General Election and the 2016 London Mayoral Election. They tried the same techniques in the Referendum Campaign and I was delighted that they were not rewarded with a triumph.
So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.
For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.
Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
Just
Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
Yo.
Perhaps you could provide some evidence of people actually being convicted of hate crimes associated with year high.
Four times since the referendum I’ve seen or experienced verbal attacks along the lines of ‘Fuck off home we voted Brexit’, most recently last month in Leeds from supporters of Tommy Robinson, directed towards a Polish chap.
So they are happening.
Unless they are physical or recorded there’s a low chance of conviction as it becomes he said/they said so they don’t get reported.
ell).
Funny. This is something ardent Remainers tell “anecdotes” about all the time, but my wife, her friends and my international friends have never experienced or mentioned anything of the sort.
They are all happy to be here. Some are applying for British passports, and that’s the only difference I’ve seen.
Oh, right. I see. Your reaction is to implicitly call me a liar. I understand. That doesn't say much about yourself, you know. (As it happens, characterising me as an "ardent Remainer" is quite amusing, as well as ignorant)
And your posts don’t say much about you either.
Your posts on Brexit are as intemperate as they are imbalanced.
I have lots of European friends. None have ever experience anything of the sort, including my wife.
Some of your best friends are European? Good to hear.
Yes. I went to an international school, married a European, work with many Europeans and am proud to call many my friends.
I’m afraid I can’t help you with your prejudices, though.
Was it a sad day for you when Bulgaria joined the EU?
Speaking at a knife crime summit, organised by the Mayor of London, Mr Hewitt said the trend towards using so-called zombie knives was making medics' jobs even more difficult because of the seriousness of the wounds being inflicted.
So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.
For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.
There is no section of the population that respects Tony Blair.
I'm afraid I'm not fleet enough of foot. For now the Leavers have moved on to their next hate target, the CBI.
Seriously, disapproval of Tony Blair is not just confined to Leavers or Corbynites.
He is more popular than populist Leavers and Corbynites like to think.
According to the latest Yougov, (June 16th) 17% like Tony Blair, and 76% dislike him.
17% is a lot more than "no section" and not at all bad for a retired politician, let alone one that gets the populists and the Corbynites ranting. Better than most hopefuls for next Tory leader.
Give him a couple of months on the campaign stump and he could get back to the 35% he needed to win a majority.
A net rating of around -60% is an appalling score for any politician at any time, ever. The only reason that a 17% absolute approval rating is decent for a retired politician is 'not at all bad' is that most retired politicians are forgotten. However, an absolute disapproval rating of 76% is so bad - particularly for someone who's been out of the front line of politics for over a decade - that it deserves a category all of its own.
Good on them. If anyone needs to be located in an English-speaking, common-law, low-tax country inside the EU after Brexit, Malta is an excellent choice. Much better weather than Ireland.
It's also covered in fucking rubbish and their national sport is shooting dogs.
I had a hair raising run ashore on my Invincible med cruise. On the homeward leg Malta was known as the "PCOD" (P*ssy Cut Off Day). It was felt to be the last day on which could be pleasured by a feculent pro found on "The Gut" and still be in with a chance of getting cured by the doc before returning to home and hearth. Gib was cutting it a bit fine for the antibiotics to be fully effective. You don't hear about any of this on the "Armed Forces Day" bollocks.
Lots of EU countries have problems with rubbish.
Greece and Cyprus being other examples. And the French lean out of their shutters in the countryside at the weekend and basically try and shoot anything that flies overhead.
I really didn't note much rubbish when I went on holiday to Zanthe a couple of years back. Nor did I in Turkey in all honesty. The sheer volume of uncollected rubbish I saw in Tunisia however was absolubtely staggering. For all our handwringing (Yes I try to do my bit) over plastic use and so forth in this country, it IS Asia and Africa that have the really big problem with this.
Perhaps our foreign aid budget should pay for recycling facilities in Africa if we are serious about curbing pollution. Such facilities would also employ locals and stimulate economies.
TBH I’m surprised that the Chao Praya, the river which flows through Bangkok isn’t there! The Mekong, higher up, on the Laos-Thai border seemed OK when I was there a few years ago.
Mr. Jonathan, disagree very strongly with that. Thatcher has support from the right and dislike from the left (in broad terms). Blair has very little support at all.
In 2001, ten years after she left all you had to do was put a Thatcher wig on Hague to sink his campaign. If you were a Thatcherite then, you were seriously out of fashion.
Ten years after leaving office Blair is in a broadly similar state. In ten years time, Blair will come back in fashion a bit. May and co are accelerating the process.
I thoroughly disliked Thatcher and most of what she stood for, but I never saw her as a malign influence on British public life. For all her faults she was never a war criminal. Blair deserves to end his days in jail like Milosevic.
So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.
For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.
There is no section of the population that respects Tony Blair.
I'm afraid I'm not fleet enough of foot. For now the Leavers have moved on to their next hate target, the CBI.
Seriously, disapproval of Tony Blair is not just confined to Leavers or Corbynites.
He is more popular than populist Leavers and Corbynites like to think.
According to the latest Yougov, (June 16th) 17% like Tony Blair, and 76% dislike him.
17% is a lot more than "no section" and not at all bad for a retired politician, let alone one that gets the populists and the Corbynites ranting. Better than most hopefuls for next Tory leader.
Give him a couple of months on the campaign stump and he could get back to the 35% he needed to win a majority.
A net rating of around -60% is an appalling score for any politician at any time, ever. The only reason that a 17% absolute approval rating is decent for a retired politician is 'not at all bad' is that most retired politicians are forgotten. However, an absolute disapproval rating of 76% is so bad - particularly for someone who's been out of the front line of politics for over a decade - that it deserves a category all of its own.
+1
Not that I want to put @Jonathan off. His Draft Blair campaign would do wonders for May!
So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.
For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.
Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
Just
Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
Yo.
Perhaps you could provide some evidence of people actually being convicted of hate crimes associated with year high.
Four times since the referendum I’ve seen or experienced verbal attacks along the lines of ‘Fuck off home we voted Brexit’, most recently last month in Leeds from supporters of Tommy Robinson, directed towards a Polish chap.
So they are happening.
Unless they are physical or recorded there’s a low chance of conviction as it becomes he said/they said so they don’t get reported.
ell).
Funny. This is something ardent Remainers tell “anecdotes” about all the time, but my wife, her friends and my international friends have never experienced or mentioned anything of the sort.
They are all happy to be here. Some are applying for British passports, and that’s the only difference I’ve seen.
Oh, right. I see. Your reaction is to implicitly call me a liar. I understand. That doesn't say much about yourself, you know. (As it happens, characterising me as an "ardent Remainer" is quite amusing, as well as ignorant)
And your posts don’t say much about you either.
Your posts on Brexit are as intemperate as they are imbalanced.
I have lots of European friends. None have ever experience anything of the sort, including my wife.
Some of your best friends are European? Good to hear.
Yes. I went to an international school, married a European, work with many Europeans and am proud to call many my friends.
I’m afraid I can’t help you with your prejudices, though.
Was it a sad day for you when Bulgaria joined the EU?
So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.
For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.
There is no section of the population that respects Tony Blair.
I'm afraid I'm not fleet enough of foot. For now the Leavers have moved on to their next hate target, the CBI.
Seriously, disapproval of Tony Blair is not just confined to Leavers or Corbynites.
He is more popular than populist Leavers and Corbynites like to think.
According to the latest Yougov, (June 16th) 17% like Tony Blair, and 76% dislike him.
17% is a lot more than "no section" and not at all bad for a retired politician, let alone one that gets the populists and the Corbynites ranting. Better than most hopefuls for next Tory leader.
Give him a couple of months on the campaign stump and he could get back to the 35% he needed to win a majority.
A net rating of around -60% is an appalling score for any politician at any time, ever. The only reason that a 17% absolute approval rating is decent for a retired politician is 'not at all bad' is that most retired politicians are forgotten. However, an absolute disapproval rating of 76% is so bad - particularly for someone who's been out of the front line of politics for over a decade - that it deserves a category all of its own.
In elections it matters who votes for you, not how much the people who don't vote for you dislike you when they are fragmented across many parties. May won the election with just under 30% support of the electorate. That's not that far from 17%.
With Blair there is a nice little lazy meme that suits Tories, Leavers and Corbynites very well to perpetuate.
Alternatively the simulation is correct and we're in the 10.6% probability section where Germany fails to qualify.
Well UBS modelling also got the 2014 WC spectacularly wrong as well. I think I might go with the GIGO interpretation.
But presumably a 10.6% probability is not a zero probability so "most likely" doesn't mean probability = 1.
I mean as you are well aware, if you put 10,000 monkeys in a room, each with a typewriter you eventually get a @Casino_Royale.
Yeah I know, I am just messing about. That been said, a defence containing Hummels and Boatang should worry anybody who wrote the model if it consistently thinks they will do well.
So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.
For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.
Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
Just
Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
Yo.
Perhaps you could provide some evidence of people actually being convicted of hate crimes associated with year high.
Four times since the referendum I’ve seen or experienced verbal attacks along the lines of ‘Fuck off home we voted Brexit’, most recently last month in Leeds from supporters of Tommy Robinson, directed towards a Polish chap.
So they are happening.
Unless they are physical or recorded there’s a low chance of conviction as it becomes he said/they said so they don’t get reported.
To be honest, we've noticed it as well. One of my wife's closest friends is an Austrian married to an Australian and living here with their kids. They're now migrating to Australia, having experienced post-Brexit nastiness. Their kid has had a tough time at school for her background and they've had enough of her coming home in tears (and they've experienced it directly as well).
Funny. This is something ardent Remainers tell “anecdotes” about all the time, but my wife, her friends and my international friends have never experienced or mentioned anything of the sort.
They are all happy to be here. Some are applying for British passports, and that’s the only difference I’ve seen.
Oh, right. I see. Your reaction is to implicitly call me a liar. I understand. That doesn't say much about yourself, you know. (As it happens, characterising me as an "ardent Remainer" is quite amusing, as well as ignorant)
And your posts don’t say much about you either.
Your posts on Brexit are as intemperate as they are imbalanced.
I have lots of European friends. None have ever experience anything of the sort, including my wife.
In the interests of becoming less intemperate and imbalanced, could you link a few such examples from me?
Interestingly, many people think that Tesla setting up the charging network across the US is one of the smartest things they have done. They are in prime mover position if / when electric becomes the norm.
(Snip) The In campaign found it incredibly difficult to say anything positive about the EU. Many of the leaders of the In campaign had won a lot of cheap votes over the years by criticising it and pretending to be more sceptical than they actually proved to be. Nick Clegg was an exception but he had been damaged by the Coalition. I really don't feel that way but I can well imagine that those who think that the EU is a worthy institution must have suffered very similar frustrations to those I felt in Scotland.
I think the lesson in both is that fear is rarely enough. It will win some votes but to get over the top you need to have a convincing case for what you want. Better together found its true voice very much at the last minute and not without some equivocation. The remain campaign did not.
Leavers found it impossible to listen to anything positive about the EU, and to this day confuse euroscepticism with their own europhobia.
Some did but those were votes remain was never going to win. There were lots more people like me who wondered if it was worth the candle, worth losing Cameron and Osborne over, whether there were more important things to expend our energy on.
But the more I looked at what the EU was as an institution, the way it did things and most importantly its direction of travel the more I became persuaded that we should leave. People criticise the incoherence of the Leave vision, and rightly so. But if we had remained what kind of EU did we want to be a part of? Did we want to be at its heart, as per Blair, or in a more associate role hiding behind opt outs? How were we going to resolve the issue of the EZ and QMV? Remain had no answer to these and many other questions. No one really sold a positive vision of what life in the EU would be like in 10-20 years. They deserved to lose.
Some of us voted Leave with the specific aim of wishing to get rid of Cameron and Osborne - and remain very content that that was achieved! I have not had strong feelings re-the EU for several decades , but had become very disturbed by the scaremongering campaigning style adopted by both at the 2015 General Election and the 2016 London Mayoral Election. They tried the same techniques in the Referendum Campaign and I was delighted that they were not rewarded with a triumph.
"Some of us voted Leave with the specific aim of wishing to get rid of Cameron and Osborne" Very silly and short sighted.
Good on them. If anyone needs to be located in an English-speaking, common-law, low-tax country inside the EU after Brexit, Malta is an excellent choice. Much better weather than Ireland.
The only thing is they'll look a bit silly if Malta maltexits over migrant boat issues, and then implements THER WILL OF THER PEOPLE as per the 1956 referendum.
Malta 80/1 to be next after us out of the EU. Worth a few quid?
I like the look of Hungary at 12/1
Italy 2 Greece 4 Czech Republic 5 Poland 5 Sweden 10 France 12 Hungary 12 Ireland 16 Denmark 18 Cyprus 20 Romania 20 Netherlands 28 Finland 33 Austria 40 Germany 50 Latvia 50 Bulgaria 66 Portugal 66 Spain 66 Belgium 80 Croatia 80 Estonia 80 Lithuania 80 Malta 80 Slovakia 80 Slovenia 80 Luxembourg 150 (WHill) (NB no Turkey, so they're obviously not joining)
Interestingly, many people think that Tesla setting up the charging network across the US is one of the smartest things they have done. They are in prime mover position if / when electric becomes the norm.
I've asked this question before and I can't remember if anyone answered: are there standards for charging points for electric cars, or are all manufacturers going their own way?
If the latter, it'd be a big barrier to electric car uptake.
Travelling regularly through mainland inland rural China albeit many years ago, there were literally mountains of rubbish all around and within living areas, villages, towns, rivers, you name it. I remember thinking at the time how could people tolerate it so close to where they were living but I suppose if your priority is to feed your family you will leave the litter collection to someone else.
Perhaps it's all changed now.
I went recently and industrial China is worse if anything. They dump their waste anywhere and everywhere. The air and rivers are extremely polluted.
(Snip) The In campaign found it incredibly difficult to say anything positive about the EU. Many of the leaders of the In campaign had won a lot of cheap votes over the years by criticising it and pretending to be more sceptical than they actually proved to be. Nick Clegg was an exception but he had been damaged by the Coalition. I really don't feel that way but I can well imagine that those who think that the EU is a worthy institution must have suffered very similar frustrations to those I felt in Scotland.
I think the lesson in both is that fear is rarely enough. It will win some votes but to get over the top you need to have a convincing case for what you want. Better together found its true voice very much at the last minute and not without some equivocation. The remain campaign did not.
Leavers found it impossible to listen to anything positive about the EU, and to this day confuse euroscepticism with their own europhobia.
Some did but those were votes remain was never going to win. There were lots more people like me who wondered if it was worth the candle, worth losing Cameron and Osborne over, whether there were more important things to expend our energy on.
But the more I looked at what the EU was as an institution, the way it did things and most importantly its direction of travel the more I became persuaded that we should leave. People criticise the incoherence of the Leave vision, and rightly so. But if we had remained what kind of EU did we want to be a part of? Did we want to be at its heart, as per Blair, or in a more associate role hiding behind opt outs? How were we going to resolve the issue of the EZ and QMV? Remain had no answer to these and many other questions. No one really sold a positive vision of what life in the EU would be like in 10-20 years. They deserved to lose.
Some of us voted Leave with the specific aim of wishing to get rid of Cameron and Osborne - and remain very content that that was achieved! I have not had strong feelings re-the EU for several decades , but had become very disturbed by the scaremongering campaigning style adopted by both at the 2015 General Election and the 2016 London Mayoral Election. They tried the same techniques in the Referendum Campaign and I was delighted that they were not rewarded with a triumph.
"Some of us voted Leave with the specific aim of wishing to get rid of Cameron and Osborne" Very silly and short sighted.
Not at all - given that some of us did not have strong views on the EU. The icing on the cake arrived unexpectedly a year later when the Tories lost their overall majority.
Interestingly, many people think that Tesla setting up the charging network across the US is one of the smartest things they have done. They are in prime mover position if / when electric becomes the norm.
I think that it's definitely 'when'. Personally I'm holding on to my eight year old car until I can see an electric or hybrid that I like. My sister has a Tesla, she's taking me for a spin tomorrow.
So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.
For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.
There is no section of the population that respects Tony Blair.
I'm afraid I'm not fleet enough of foot. For now the Leavers have moved on to their next hate target, the CBI.
Seriously, disapproval of Tony Blair is not just confined to Leavers or Corbynites.
He is more popular than populist Leavers and Corbynites like to think.
According to the latest Yougov, (June 16th) 17% like Tony Blair, and 76% dislike him.
17% is a lot more than "no section" and not at all bad for a retired politician, let alone one that gets the populists and the Corbynites ranting. Better than most hopefuls for next Tory leader.
Give him a couple of months on the campaign stump and he could get back to the 35% he needed to win a majority.
A net rating of around -60% is an appalling score for any politician at any time, ever. The only reason that a 17% absolute approval rating is decent for a retired politician is 'not at all bad' is that most retired politicians are forgotten. However, an absolute disapproval rating of 76% is so bad - particularly for someone who's been out of the front line of politics for over a decade - that it deserves a category all of its own.
In elections it matters who votes for you, not how much the people who don't vote for you dislike you when they are fragmented across many parties. May won the election with just under 30% support of the electorate. That's not that far from 17%.
With Blair there is a nice little lazy meme that suits Tories, Leavers and Corbynites very well to perpetuate.
Totally agree.
3 times majority election winner , seems to be discounted by them.
Good on them. If anyone needs to be located in an English-speaking, common-law, low-tax country inside the EU after Brexit, Malta is an excellent choice. Much better weather than Ireland.
The only thing is they'll look a bit silly if Malta maltexits over migrant boat issues, and then implements THER WILL OF THER PEOPLE as per the 1956 referendum.
Malta 80/1 to be next after us out of the EU. Worth a few quid?
I like the look of Hungary at 12/1
Italy 2 Greece 4 Czech Republic 5 Poland 5 Sweden 10 France 12 Hungary 12 Ireland 16 Denmark 18 Cyprus 20 Romania 20 Netherlands 28 Finland 33 Austria 40 Germany 50 Latvia 50 Bulgaria 66 Portugal 66 Spain 66 Belgium 80 Croatia 80 Estonia 80 Lithuania 80 Malta 80 Slovakia 80 Slovenia 80 Luxembourg 150 (WHill) (NB no Turkey, so they're obviously not joining)
Sweden is outside the Eurozone and would be a prime contender if the Swedish Democrats come top in September
Interestingly, many people think that Tesla setting up the charging network across the US is one of the smartest things they have done. They are in prime mover position if / when electric becomes the norm.
I think that it's definitely 'when'. Personally I'm holding on to my eight year old car until I can see an electric or hybrid that I like. My sister has a Tesla, she's taking me for a spin tomorrow.
At one point there was a hope that hydrogen cell cars might be a better alternative to electric, but am guessing they haven't really cracked the issue with large scale production / transportation of the hydrogen.
Interestingly, many people think that Tesla setting up the charging network across the US is one of the smartest things they have done. They are in prime mover position if / when electric becomes the norm.
I've asked this question before and I can't remember if anyone answered: are there standards for charging points for electric cars, or are all manufacturers going their own way?
If the latter, it'd be a big barrier to electric car uptake.
Standards set by International Electrotechnical Commission.
(Snip) The In campaign found it incredibly difficult to say anything positive about the EU. Many of the leaders of the In campaign had won a lot of cheap votes over the years by criticising it and pretending to be more sceptical than they actually proved to be. Nick Clegg was an exception but he had been damaged by the Coalition. I really don't feel that way but I can well imagine that those who think that the EU is a worthy institution must have suffered very similar frustrations to those I felt in Scotland.
I think the lesson in both is that fear is rarely enough. It will win some votes but to get over the top you need to have a convincing case for what you want. Better together found its true voice very much at the last minute and not without some equivocation. The remain campaign did not.
Leavers found it impossible to listen to anything positive about the EU, and to this day confuse euroscepticism with their own europhobia.
Some did but those were votes remain was never going to win. There were lots more people like me who wondered if it was worth the candle, worth losing Cameron and Osborne over, whether there were more important things to expend our energy on.
But the more I looked at what the EU was as an institution, the way it did things and most importantly its direction of travel the more I became persuaded that we should leave. People criticise the incoherence of the Leave vision, and rightly so. But if we had remained what kind of EU did we want to be a part of? Did we want to be at its heart, as per Blair, or in a more associate role hiding behind opt outs? How were we going to resolve the issue of the EZ and QMV? Remain had no answer to these and many other questions. No one really sold a positive vision of what life in the EU would be like in 10-20 years. They deserved to lose.
Some of us voted Leave with the specific aim of wishing to get rid of Cameron and Osborne - and remain very content that that was achieved! I have not had strong feelings re-the EU for several decades , but had become very disturbed by the scaremongering campaigning style adopted by both at the 2015 General Election and the 2016 London Mayoral Election. They tried the same techniques in the Referendum Campaign and I was delighted that they were not rewarded with a triumph.
"Some of us voted Leave with the specific aim of wishing to get rid of Cameron and Osborne" Very silly and short sighted.
It is , however when you offer a referendum , it is tempting for many to use it for other purposes.
Interestingly, many people think that Tesla setting up the charging network across the US is one of the smartest things they have done. They are in prime mover position if / when electric becomes the norm.
I think that it's definitely 'when'. Personally I'm holding on to my eight year old car until I can see an electric or hybrid that I like. My sister has a Tesla, she's taking me for a spin tomorrow.
At one point there was a hope that hydrogen cell cars might be a better alternative to electric, but am guessing they haven't really cracked the issue with large scale production / transportation of the hydrogen.
Toyota are still large proponents of hydrogen. I noted in the announced EU Japan FTA deal that one of the benefits was that hydrogen cars produced in the EU would not need to be technically modified to be used in Japan. So interest is still alive. My opinion is that short term the sales of the iPace are going to so good that the rest of the industry will rush to keep up. It will sell in volumes for city living couples with children. Long term which technology gets to a 600mile range will have an advantage.
(Snip) The In campaign found it incredibly difficult to say anything positive about the EU. Many of the leaders of the In campaign had won a lot of cheap votes over the years by criticising it and pretending to be more sceptical than they actually proved to be. Nick Clegg was an exception but he had been damaged by the Coalition. I really don't feel that way but I can well imagine that those who think that the EU is a worthy institution must have suffered very similar frustrations to those I felt in Scotland.
I think the lesson in both is that fear is rarely enough. It will win some votes but to get over the top you need to have a convincing case for what you want. Better together found its true voice very much at the last minute and not without some equivocation. The remain campaign did not.
Leavers found it impossible to listen to anything positive about the EU, and to this day confuse euroscepticism with their own europhobia.
Some did but those were votes remain was never going to win. There were lots more people like me who wondered if it was worth the candle, worth losing Cameron and Osborne over, whether there were more important things to expend our energy on.
But the more I looked at what the EU was as an institution, the way it d to lose.
Some of us voted Leave with the specific aim of wishing to get rid of Cameron and Osborne - and remain very content that that was achieved! I have not had strong feelings re-the EU for several decades , but had become very disturbed by the scaremongering campaigning style adopted by both at the 2015 General Election and the 2016 London Mayoral Election. They tried the same techniques in the Referendum Campaign and I was delighted that they were not rewarded with a triumph.
"Some of us voted Leave with the specific aim of wishing to get rid of Cameron and Osborne" Very silly and short sighted.
Not at all - given that some of us did not have strong views on the EU. The icing on the cake arrived unexpectedly a year later when the Tories lost their overall majority.
Yet the Tories are still in power and thanks to the collapse of UKIP due to the Leave vote on 42%.
Had Remain narrowly won UKIP would likely have surged and the Tories and Labour and UKIP could now all be roughly tied on 20 to 30% of the vote
(Snip) The In campaign found it incredibly difficult to say anything positive about the EU. Many of the leaders of the In campaign had won a lot of cheap votes over the years by criticising it and pretending to be more sceptical than they actually proved to be. Nick Clegg was an exception but he had been damaged by the Coalition. I really don't feel that way but I can well imagine that those who think that the EU is a worthy institution must have suffered very similar frustrations to those I felt in Scotland.
I think the lesson in both is that fear is rarely enough. It will win some votes but to get over the top you need to have a convincing case for what you want. Better together found its true voice very much at the last minute and not without some equivocation. The remain campaign did not.
Leavers found it impossible to listen to anything positive about the EU, and to this day confuse euroscepticism with their own europhobia.
Some did but those were votes remain was never going to win. There were lots more people like me who wondered if it was worth the candle, worth losing Cameron and Osborne over, whether there were more important things to expend our energy on.
But the more I looked at what the EU was as an institution, the way it did things and most importantly its direction of travel the more I became persuaded that we should leave. People criticise the incoherence of the Leave vision, and rightly so. But if we had remained what kind of EU did we want to be a part of? Did we want to be at its heart, as per Blair, or in a more associate role hiding behind opt outs? How were we going to resolve the issue of the EZ and QMV? Remain had no answer to these and many other questions. No one really sold a positive vision of what life in the EU would be like in 10-20 years. They deserved to lose.
Some of us voted Leave with the specific aim of wishing to get rid of Cameron and Osborne - and remain very content that that was achieved! I have not had strong feelings re-the EU for several decades , but had become very disturbed by the scaremongering campaigning style adopted by both at the 2015 General Election and the 2016 London Mayoral Election. They tried the same techniques in the Referendum Campaign and I was delighted that they were not rewarded with a triumph.
"Some of us voted Leave with the specific aim of wishing to get rid of Cameron and Osborne" Very silly and short sighted.
The Rover 45/400 I had 15-20 years ago was a great car - did me good service, had relatively cheap insurance (because no-one would want to steal it) and was very reliable.
Sadly, I had it laid up for a year whist I went walking, and it was never really the same afterwards.
Interestingly, many people think that Tesla setting up the charging network across the US is one of the smartest things they have done. They are in prime mover position if / when electric becomes the norm.
I think that it's definitely 'when'. Personally I'm holding on to my eight year old car until I can see an electric or hybrid that I like. My sister has a Tesla, she's taking me for a spin tomorrow.
At one point there was a hope that hydrogen cell cars might be a better alternative to electric, but am guessing they haven't really cracked the issue with large scale production / transportation of the hydrogen.
Where/how will people charge up their electric cars if their overnight parking is on the street?
Leavers are collaborators, their trials will be fun.
Obviously some will now have died off, but to arrest, charge and detain over 17 million people is going to be some logistical challenge for the police and CPS. Remainers always said the economy would tank if we voted LEAVE, and losing that level of people to jails is certainly going to do that. Plus all the remainers having to retrain as police/lawyers/jailors will trash the economy just as good.
I think Ozil and Gundogan are definitely going to be the fall guys for Germany. Wouldn't be surprised if they get kicked out of the squad for the Euro qualifiers.
On another note, we've started looking at buying a new car to replace our 06 Honda Jazz, to be bought sometime in the next six months to a year. Looking for a similar replacement.
Needs to be an automatic. We're thinking it must have some form of lane assist and automatic braking, and as it'll probably be used mostly for half-hour journeys (with some longer ones) a hybrid seems reasonable.
We're not car people (as far as I'm concerned they're a tool to allow me to do stuff), but I'm encouraging Mrs J to get a brand new car - anything under £20-25k.
Any early suggestions, aside from the Toyota Yaris?
(Another point, I have a really long body, which means that my head touches the roof of some cars, so headroom is a must. The Jazz was surprisingly good in this respect.)
Interestingly, many people think that Tesla setting up the charging network across the US is one of the smartest things they have done. They are in prime mover position if / when electric becomes the norm.
I think that it's definitely 'when'. Personally I'm holding on to my eight year old car until I can see an electric or hybrid that I like. My sister has a Tesla, she's taking me for a spin tomorrow.
At one point there was a hope that hydrogen cell cars might be a better alternative to electric, but am guessing they haven't really cracked the issue with large scale production / transportation of the hydrogen.
Where/how will people charge up their electric cars if their overnight parking is on the street?
Coming back to my question earlier: worse, if there isn't a standard for plugs, which plug format will be installed on the street?
"Sorry dear, we cannot buy this house: it has a Ford plug and we've got a Nissan, and the council won't let us dig up the street."
Interestingly, many people think that Tesla setting up the charging network across the US is one of the smartest things they have done. They are in prime mover position if / when electric becomes the norm.
I think that it's definitely 'when'. Personally I'm holding on to my eight year old car until I can see an electric or hybrid that I like. My sister has a Tesla, she's taking me for a spin tomorrow.
I am looking seriously at the Hyundai Ioniq plug in Hybrid. All electric for 30 miles, but petrol when off on a trip. Hybrid of the year by What Car.
I wouldn't buy another conventional fuel car, no one will touch them second hand in the future, but all electric is a step too far at present.
Alastair Meeks is correct to a point. There were elements of the leave campaign that were xenophobic lies - these certainly contributed (along with Remain's own lies about the immediate armageddon in the economy) towards my Remain vote.
But the sources of this go much further back. For 20 years the politicians have refused to engage with voters' genuine concerns about immigration, the democratic deficit in the EU, the loss of powers to the EU etc. It should be no surprise that the public voted to leave as a reaction to this, nor that, in the absence of mainstream politicians being willing to listen, that the more extreme elements such as Tommy Robinson and Farage have filled this vacuum.and hijacked these causes.
The Blair administration- and in particular their conduct over Lisbon - bears a large responsibility for this.
Sad to witness that many politicians are still refusing to listen or engage, and I agree with Morris Dancer that we risk the far right rising again in opposition to what is already a far left labour.
Leavers are collaborators, their trials will be fun.
Obviously some will now have died off, but to arrest, charge and detain over 17 million people is going to be some logistical challenge for the police and CPS. Remainers always said the economy would tank if we voted LEAVE, and losing that level of people to jails is certainly going to do that. Plus all the remainers having to retrain as police/lawyers/jailors will trash the economy just as good.
We can invade France and turn it into a giant detention camp to hold Leavers in.
They seem to specialise in buying cars from the estates of recently deceased Brexiteers. I bet that 4 grand Rover 75 Diesel "Tourer" was proudly driven to the polling station on 23/06/16.
Four times since the referendum I’ve seen or experienced verbal attacks along the lines of ‘Fuck off home we voted Brexit’, most recently last month in Leeds from supporters of Tommy Robinson, directed towards a Polish chap.
So they are happening.
Unless they are physical or recorded there’s a low chance of conviction as it becomes he said/they said so they don’t get reported.
The problem with your statement being is that these sorts of people would (had we voted REMAIN) simply said "Fuck off home" but not added 'we voted Brexit'. They're scum either way.
Mr. Heron, ha, I was about to comment on agreeing with you, but given you ended by agreeing with me I fear that might be considered a narcissistic compliment
Anyway, I must venture forth into the blazing nightmare of summer.
On another note, we've started looking at buying a new car to replace our 06 Honda Jazz, to be bought sometime in the next six months to a year. Looking for a similar replacement.
Needs to be an automatic. We're thinking it must have some form of lane assist and automatic braking, and as it'll probably be used mostly for half-hour journeys (with some longer ones) a hybrid seems reasonable.
We're not car people (as far as I'm concerned they're a tool to allow me to do stuff), but I'm encouraging Mrs J to get a brand new car - anything under £20-25k.
Any early suggestions, aside from the Toyota Yaris?
(Another point, I have a really long body, which means that my head touches the roof of some cars, so headroom is a must. The Jazz was surprisingly good in this respect.)
How much mileage does your Jazz have and how much are you looking to get for it ?
On another note, we've started looking at buying a new car to replace our 06 Honda Jazz, to be bought sometime in the next six months to a year. Looking for a similar replacement.
Needs to be an automatic. We're thinking it must have some form of lane assist and automatic braking, and as it'll probably be used mostly for half-hour journeys (with some longer ones) a hybrid seems reasonable.
We're not car people (as far as I'm concerned they're a tool to allow me to do stuff), but I'm encouraging Mrs J to get a brand new car - anything under £20-25k.
Any early suggestions, aside from the Toyota Yaris?
(Another point, I have a really long body, which means that my head touches the roof of some cars, so headroom is a must. The Jazz was surprisingly good in this respect.)
Ioniq premium SE model has lane assist and auto braking.
Interestingly, many people think that Tesla setting up the charging network across the US is one of the smartest things they have done. They are in prime mover position if / when electric becomes the norm.
I think that it's definitely 'when'. Personally I'm holding on to my eight year old car until I can see an electric or hybrid that I like. My sister has a Tesla, she's taking me for a spin tomorrow.
At one point there was a hope that hydrogen cell cars might be a better alternative to electric, but am guessing they haven't really cracked the issue with large scale production / transportation of the hydrogen.
Where/how will people charge up their electric cars if their overnight parking is on the street?
Coming back to my question earlier: worse, if there isn't a standard for plugs, which plug format will be installed on the street?
"Sorry dear, we cannot buy this house: it has a Ford plug and we've got a Nissan, and the council won't let us dig up the street."
A standard design is likely to emerge, either by competition or by industry agreement. It may be as simple as what a dominant charge network / manufacturer decides.
After all, no-one specified the clutch/brake/accelerator order of pedals as an industry standard but they became standard because of driver/buyer expectations as much as functionality.
Leavers found it impossible to listen to anything positive about the EU, and to this day confuse euroscepticism with their own europhobia.
Some did but those were votes remain was never going to win. There were lots more people like me who wondered if it was worth the candle, worth losing Cameron and Osborne over, whether there were more important things to expend our energy on.
But the more I looked at what the EU was as an institution, the way it d to lose.
Some of us voted Leave with the specific aim of wishing to get rid of Cameron and Osborne - and remain very content that that was achieved! I have not had strong feelings re-the EU for several decades , but had become very disturbed by the scaremongering campaigning style adopted by both at the 2015 General Election and the 2016 London Mayoral Election. They tried the same techniques in the Referendum Campaign and I was delighted that they were not rewarded with a triumph.
"Some of us voted Leave with the specific aim of wishing to get rid of Cameron and Osborne" Very silly and short sighted.
Not at all - given that some of us did not have strong views on the EU. The icing on the cake arrived unexpectedly a year later when the Tories lost their overall majority.
Yet the Tories are still in power and thanks to the collapse of UKIP due to the Leave vote on 42%.
Had Remain narrowly won UKIP would likely have surged and the Tories and Labour and UKIP could now all be roughly tied on 20 to 30% of the vote
I don't agree with your second sentence on the basis that a Remain vote would effectively settled the issue for a good few years. UKIP would still have fallen back as the EU faded from public view - albeit not to the extent that has occurred since the Referendum. There would be the possibility of a later revival - but probably not until the mid-2020s. As for the Tories being in power - 'in office but not in power' reflects the reality since June 2017.
Leavers are collaborators, their trials will be fun.
Obviously some will now have died off, but to arrest, charge and detain over 17 million people is going to be some logistical challenge for the police and CPS. Remainers always said the economy would tank if we voted LEAVE, and losing that level of people to jails is certainly going to do that. Plus all the remainers having to retrain as police/lawyers/jailors will trash the economy just as good.
We can invade France and turn it into a giant detention camp to hold Leavers in.
Hmm, a bunch of pansy remainers invading France, you might just hand them their first victory and end up with Macron handing the keys to Westminster to Junker. I see your game here.
On another note, we've started looking at buying a new car to replace our 06 Honda Jazz, to be bought sometime in the next six months to a year. Looking for a similar replacement.
Needs to be an automatic. We're thinking it must have some form of lane assist and automatic braking, and as it'll probably be used mostly for half-hour journeys (with some longer ones) a hybrid seems reasonable.
We're not car people (as far as I'm concerned they're a tool to allow me to do stuff), but I'm encouraging Mrs J to get a brand new car - anything under £20-25k.
Any early suggestions, aside from the Toyota Yaris?
(Another point, I have a really long body, which means that my head touches the roof of some cars, so headroom is a must. The Jazz was surprisingly good in this respect.)
I know the Subaru Impreza is a boy-racer car in the UK, but its perfectly respectable here in the New York ‘burbs, and we love ours. We’ve had it four years now, it’s never given us a spot of trouble and the AWD is great for our hill in the winter. The CVT can be a bit noisy when you put your foot down but it’s super smooth. Whilst I dare say you wouldn’t go for an Impreza I’d heartily recommend Subaru as a marque.
Four times since the referendum I’ve seen or experienced verbal attacks along the lines of ‘Fuck off home we voted Brexit’, most recently last month in Leeds from supporters of Tommy Robinson, directed towards a Polish chap.
So they are happening.
Unless they are physical or recorded there’s a low chance of conviction as it becomes he said/they said so they don’t get reported.
The problem with your statement being is that these sorts of people would (had we voted REMAIN) simply said "Fuck off home" but not added 'we voted Brexit'. They're scum either way.
Never been told to fuck off home before the referendum though.
In 37 years prior to the referendum I’ve experienced/seen racism/bigotry first hand twice.
So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.
For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.
There is no section of the population that respects Tony Blair.
I'm afraid I'm not fleet enough of foot. For now the Leavers have moved on to their next hate target, the CBI.
Seriously, disapproval of Tony Blair is not just confined to Leavers or Corbynites.
He is more popular than populist Leavers and Corbynites like to think.
According to the latest Yougov, (June 16th) 17% like Tony Blair, and 76% dislike him.
17% is a lot more than "no section" and not at all bad for a retired politician, let alone one that gets the populists and the Corbynites ranting. Better than most hopefuls for next Tory leader.
Give him a couple of months on the campaign stump and he could get back to the 35% he needed to win a majority.
A net rating of around -60% is an appalling score for any politician at any time, ever. The only reason that a 17% absolute approval rating is decent for a retired politician is 'not at all bad' is that most retired politicians are forgotten. However, an absolute disapproval rating of 76% is so bad - particularly for someone who's been out of the front line of politics for over a decade - that it deserves a category all of its own.
In elections it matters who votes for you, not how much the people who don't vote for you dislike you when they are fragmented across many parties. May won the election with just under 30% support of the electorate. That's not that far from 17%.
With Blair there is a nice little lazy meme that suits Tories, Leavers and Corbynites very well to perpetuate.
30% is hugely far from 17% - it's nearly double it. Had May won 17% of the electorate last year on the same turnout as there actually was, that'd have been a 25% vote share and, almost certainly, a worse defeat than in 1997.
Blair is massively unpopular. That's all there is too it. It's not to say that his domestic policies are unpopular but they won't be listened to if advocated by him.
On another note, we've started looking at buying a new car to replace our 06 Honda Jazz, to be bought sometime in the next six months to a year. Looking for a similar replacement.
Needs to be an automatic. We're thinking it must have some form of lane assist and automatic braking, and as it'll probably be used mostly for half-hour journeys (with some longer ones) a hybrid seems reasonable.
We're not car people (as far as I'm concerned they're a tool to allow me to do stuff), but I'm encouraging Mrs J to get a brand new car - anything under £20-25k.
Any early suggestions, aside from the Toyota Yaris?
(Another point, I have a really long body, which means that my head touches the roof of some cars, so headroom is a must. The Jazz was surprisingly good in this respect.)
Ioniq premium SE model has lane assist and auto braking.
They seem to specialise in buying cars from the estates of recently deceased Brexiteers. I bet that 4 grand Rover 75 Diesel "Tourer" was proudly driven to the polling station on 23/06/16.
Interestingly, many people think that Tesla setting up the charging network across the US is one of the smartest things they have done. They are in prime mover position if / when electric becomes the norm.
I think that it's definitely 'when'. Personally I'm holding on to my eight year old car until I can see an electric or hybrid that I like. My sister has a Tesla, she's taking me for a spin tomorrow.
At one point there was a hope that hydrogen cell cars might be a better alternative to electric, but am guessing they haven't really cracked the issue with large scale production / transportation of the hydrogen.
Where/how will people charge up their electric cars if their overnight parking is on the street?
Coming back to my question earlier: worse, if there isn't a standard for plugs, which plug format will be installed on the street?
"Sorry dear, we cannot buy this house: it has a Ford plug and we've got a Nissan, and the council won't let us dig up the street."
A standard design is likely to emerge, either by competition or by industry agreement. It may be as simple as what a dominant charge network / manufacturer decides.
After all, no-one specified the clutch/brake/accelerator order of pedals as an industry standard but they became standard because of driver/buyer expectations as much as functionality.
But that doesn't always work. As an example, the US was massively held back in mobile telephony by the fact they had three different standards. Until some clever people designed tri-mode chips.
Here in Europe, it was decided to go with one standard, GSM, and the frequencies were reserved. This really aided the rise of companies like Vodafone and Nokia in the 1990s.
When it gets to things like having to dig up tarmac, it's best to get the standard correct, or they will forever be digging it up.
You could make cars support multiple standards, but things like tri-mode *always* end up costing more, as will having two separate charging systems in cars - which I think Tesla is doing in China to cope with their government-mandated system.
Standards are good, especially when the downsides to not having one will be as detrimental as it will be in this case.
Leavers found it impossible to listen to anything positive about the EU, and to this day confuse euroscepticism with their own europhobia.
Some did but those were votes remain was never going to win. There were lots more people like me who wondered if it was worth the candle, worth losing Cameron and Osborne over, whether there were more important things to expend our energy on.
But the more I looked at what the EU was as an institution, the way it d to lose.
Some of us voted Leave with the specific aim of wishing to get rid of Cameron and Osborne - and remain very content that that was achieved! I have not had strong feelings re-the EU for several decades , but had become very disturbed by the scaremongering campaigning style adopted by both at the 2015 General Election and the 2016 London Mayoral Election. They tried the same techniques in the Referendum Campaign and I was delighted that they were not rewarded with a triumph.
"Some of us voted Leave with the specific aim of wishing to get rid of Cameron and Osborne" Very silly and short sighted.
Not at all - given that some of us did not have strong views on the EU. The icing on the cake arrived unexpectedly a year later when the Tories lost their overall majority.
Yet the Tories are still in power and thanks to the collapse of UKIP due to the Leave vote on 42%.
Had Remain narrowly won UKIP would likely have surged and the Tories and Labour and UKIP could now all be roughly tied on 20 to 30% of the vote
I don't agree with your second sentence on the basis that a Remain vote would effectively settled the issue for a good few years. UKIP would still have fallen back as the EU faded from public view - albeit not to the extent that has occurred since the Referendum. There would be the possibility of a later revival - but probably not until the mid-2020s. As for the Tories being in power - 'in office but not in power' reflects the reality since June 2017.
We will never know the counterfactual, but vote for us righties to prevent the more extreme righties getting in never strikes me as plausible appeal to centrists or lefties. Are there examples of this? more usually it is just feeding the crocodile.
So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.
For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.
There is no section of the population that respects Tony Blair.
I'm afraid I'm not fleet enough of foot. For now the Leavers have moved on to their next hate target, the CBI.
Seriously, disapproval of Tony Blair is not just confined to Leavers or Corbynites.
He is more popular than populist Leavers and Corbynites like to think.
According to the latest Yougov, (June 16th) 17% like Tony Blair, and 76% dislike him.
17% is a lot more than "no section" and not at all bad for a retired politician, let alone one that gets the populists and the Corbynites ranting. Better than most hopefuls for next Tory leader.
Give him a couple of months on the campaign stump and he could get back to the 35% he needed to win a majority.
A net rating of around -60% is an appalling score for any politician at any time, ever. The only reason that a 17% absolute approval rating is decent for a retired politician is 'not at all bad' is that most retired politicians are forgotten. However, an absolute disapproval rating of 76% is so bad - particularly for someone who's been out of the front line of politics for over a decade - that it deserves a category all of its own.
In elections it matters who votes for you, not how much the people who don't vote for you dislike you when they are fragmented across many parties. May won the election with just under 30% support of the electorate. That's not that far from 17%.
With Blair there is a nice little lazy meme that suits Tories, Leavers and Corbynites very well to perpetuate.
Totally agree.
3 times majority election winner , seems to be discounted by them.
And his fans seem to be discounting the fact that the Blair of 1997 is not the same as the Blair of 2018 (likewise, the country).
Four times since the referendum I’ve seen or experienced verbal attacks along the lines of ‘Fuck off home we voted Brexit’, most recently last month in Leeds from supporters of Tommy Robinson, directed towards a Polish chap.
So they are happening.
Unless they are physical or recorded there’s a low chance of conviction as it becomes he said/they said so they don’t get reported.
The problem with your statement being is that these sorts of people would (had we voted REMAIN) simply said "Fuck off home" but not added 'we voted Brexit'. They're scum either way.
Never been told to fuck off home before the referendum though.
In 37 years prior to the referendum I’ve experienced/seen racism/bigotry first hand twice.
In 2 years since the referendum it is 4 times.
Disgaceful I am ashamed of some of my fellow countrymen
Four times since the referendum I’ve seen or experienced verbal attacks along the lines of ‘Fuck off home we voted Brexit’, most recently last month in Leeds from supporters of Tommy Robinson, directed towards a Polish chap.
So they are happening.
Unless they are physical or recorded there’s a low chance of conviction as it becomes he said/they said so they don’t get reported.
The problem with your statement being is that these sorts of people would (had we voted REMAIN) simply said "Fuck off home" but not added 'we voted Brexit'. They're scum either way.
Never been told to fuck off home before the referendum though.
In 37 years prior to the referendum I’ve experienced/seen racism/bigotry first hand twice.
In 2 years since the referendum it is 4 times.
Before the referendum i experienced racism about 10 times,who do i blame for that ? The EU ?
This will be the same Angela Merkel that opened the EU borders to whoever could get here - and told her fellow EU countries they would to live with that? Well, she's got some neck, I'll give her that....
Leavers found it impossible to listen to anything positive about the EU, and to this day confuse euroscepticism with their own europhobia.
Some did but those were votes remain was never going to win. There were lots more people like me who wondered if it was worth the candle, worth losing Cameron and Osborne over, whether there were more important things to expend our energy on.
But the more I looked at what the EU was as an institution, the way it d to lose.
Some of us voted Leave with the specific aim of wishing to get rid of Cameron and Osborne - and remain very content that that was achieved! I have not had strong feelings re-the EU for several decades , but had become very disturbed by the scaremongering campaigning style adopted by both at the 2015 General Election and the 2016 London Mayoral Election. They tried the same techniques in the Referendum Campaign and I was delighted that they were not rewarded with a triumph.
"Some of us voted Leave with the specific aim of wishing to get rid of Cameron and Osborne" Very silly and short sighted.
Not at all - given that some of us did not have strong views on the EU. The icing on the cake arrived unexpectedly a year later when the Tories lost their overall majority.
Yet the Tories are still in power and thanks to the collapse of UKIP due to the Leave vote on 42%.
Had Remain narrowly won UKIP would likely have surged and the Tories and Labour and UKIP could now all be roughly tied on 20 to 30% of the vote
I don't agree with your second sentence on the basis that a Remain vote would effectively settled the issue for a good few years. UKIP would still have fallen back as the EU faded from public view - albeit not to the extent that has occurred since the Referendum. There would be the possibility of a later revival - but probably not until the mid-2020s. As for the Tories being in power - 'in office but not in power' reflects the reality since June 2017.
No. UKIP would likely have seen a mini surge from disgruntled Leavers if Remain had narrowly won just as the SNP saw a surge from disgruntled Yes voters after No narrowly won the 2014 Scottish independence referendum.
Polling similar to the 2014 European elections with UKIP on 27%, Labour on 24% and the Tories on 23% may have been possible
Comments
https://twitter.com/politicsparrot/status/1012239920579178496
I’m saying thoughts and views like that are more public and widespread.
Brexit seems to have legitimised such views in their minds.
It is no coincidence that on PB those most upset at the incarceration of Tommy Robinson voted Leave.
The acceptable face of racism, if you like.
That is what has become legitimised and all the PB Leavers who refuse to acknowledge this must face up to what has been unleashed. But of course they won't. They'll bang on about how some bloke they drink with down the pub is Polish and he is a right nice bloke.
Germany Will Win the World Cup, UBS Says After 10,000 Simulations
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-17/germany-will-win-the-world-cup-ubs-says-after-10-000-simulations
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/27/soar-knife-crime-deaths-use-zombie-knives-mean-victims-cannot/
Not that I want to put @Jonathan off. His Draft Blair campaign would do wonders for May!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-44497880
A shame, but hardly unexpected.
With Blair there is a nice little lazy meme that suits Tories, Leavers and Corbynites very well to perpetuate.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44640647
I mean as you are well aware, if you put 10,000 monkeys in a room, each with a typewriter you eventually get a @Casino_Royale.
Very silly and short sighted.
Police are asking 3000 journalists not to look out the window...
I like the look of Hungary at 12/1
Italy 2
Greece 4
Czech Republic 5
Poland 5
Sweden 10
France 12
Hungary 12
Ireland 16
Denmark 18
Cyprus 20
Romania 20
Netherlands 28
Finland 33
Austria 40
Germany 50
Latvia 50
Bulgaria 66
Portugal 66
Spain 66
Belgium 80
Croatia 80
Estonia 80
Lithuania 80
Malta 80
Slovakia 80
Slovenia 80
Luxembourg 150
(WHill)
(NB no Turkey, so they're obviously not joining)
If the latter, it'd be a big barrier to electric car uptake.
Personally I'm holding on to my eight year old car until I can see an electric or hybrid that I like. My sister has a Tesla, she's taking me for a spin tomorrow.
3 times majority election winner , seems to be discounted by them.
My opinion is that short term the sales of the iPace are going to so good that the rest of the industry will rush to keep up. It will sell in volumes for city living couples with children.
Long term which technology gets to a 600mile range will have an advantage.
Had Remain narrowly won UKIP would likely have surged and the Tories and Labour and UKIP could now all be roughly tied on 20 to 30% of the vote
http://www.rchardingandson.co.uk
Sadly, I had it laid up for a year whist I went walking, and it was never really the same afterwards.
Needs to be an automatic. We're thinking it must have some form of lane assist and automatic braking, and as it'll probably be used mostly for half-hour journeys (with some longer ones) a hybrid seems reasonable.
We're not car people (as far as I'm concerned they're a tool to allow me to do stuff), but I'm encouraging Mrs J to get a brand new car - anything under £20-25k.
Any early suggestions, aside from the Toyota Yaris?
(Another point, I have a really long body, which means that my head touches the roof of some cars, so headroom is a must. The Jazz was surprisingly good in this respect.)
"Sorry dear, we cannot buy this house: it has a Ford plug and we've got a Nissan, and the council won't let us dig up the street."
I wouldn't buy another conventional fuel car, no one will touch them second hand in the future, but all electric is a step too far at present.
But the sources of this go much further back. For 20 years the politicians have refused to engage with voters' genuine concerns about immigration, the democratic deficit in the EU, the loss of powers to the EU etc. It should be no surprise that the public voted to leave as a reaction to this, nor that, in the absence of mainstream politicians being willing to listen, that the more extreme elements such as Tommy Robinson and Farage have filled this vacuum.and hijacked these causes.
The Blair administration- and in particular their conduct over Lisbon - bears a large responsibility for this.
Sad to witness that many politicians are still refusing to listen or engage, and I agree with Morris Dancer that we risk the far right rising again in opposition to what is already a far left labour.
Anyway, I must venture forth into the blazing nightmare of summer.
https://mobile.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/ioniq/hybrid
After all, no-one specified the clutch/brake/accelerator order of pedals as an industry standard but they became standard because of driver/buyer expectations as much as functionality.
As for the Tories being in power - 'in office but not in power' reflects the reality since June 2017.
In 37 years prior to the referendum I’ve experienced/seen racism/bigotry first hand twice.
In 2 years since the referendum it is 4 times.
Blair is massively unpopular. That's all there is too it. It's not to say that his domestic policies are unpopular but they won't be listened to if advocated by him.
Here in Europe, it was decided to go with one standard, GSM, and the frequencies were reserved. This really aided the rise of companies like Vodafone and Nokia in the 1990s.
When it gets to things like having to dig up tarmac, it's best to get the standard correct, or they will forever be digging it up.
You could make cars support multiple standards, but things like tri-mode *always* end up costing more, as will having two separate charging systems in cars - which I think Tesla is doing in China to cope with their government-mandated system.
Standards are good, especially when the downsides to not having one will be as detrimental as it will be in this case.
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1012299239207198721
The racist were racist before or after the vote.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44633606
Polling similar to the 2014 European elections with UKIP on 27%, Labour on 24% and the Tories on 23% may have been possible