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  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Jonathan said:

    Dave’s quiet because he’s heartbroken about the division and hatred in the country, I know he took the death of Jo Cox quiet badly.

    He’s quite upset about the state of the Tory party too.

    He really screwed up. A relatively decent, bright chap who got carried away by his own mythology. Sad.
    Nah. He was guilty of thinking that the country couldn't possibly vote in favour of anything that Farage, Cash, Redwood, Mogg think is a good idea.

    His error was to think that the country was not chock-full of morons.
    He clearly already knew about the morons since only a few months before he'd been affecting to want to leave the EU himself unless it was reformed in some unspecified way.
    Is this the cue for a Dave's Deal discussion?
    What is there to discuss? Both in the substance and the communication it was a catastrophe.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just two points to make about this:

    1) I don't hate anyone. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
    2) My ire is reserved for those responsible for whipping up xenophobia, not for those who were frightened into believing xenophobic lies.

    It's Leavers who seem to hate every aspect about this country.
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    HYUFD said:

    Most likely it will be some form of work permit ultimately
    Do we think cameron could have done this deal with the EU before the referendum, if the answer is yes how many MP's do you need for a leadership contest.?
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,691
    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    Tony Blair presumably thinks some things need saying that no one else is saying. He’s right.

    Blair taints everything he touches. No one wants him on their platform, even when he is right.

    Meanwhile, the EU27 is preparing for crash Brexit. Seems sensible.

    https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1012189435906215936?s=19
    I assume they are going to begin construction in Ireland imminently?
    It would be highly amusing to watch them try.
    According to the article at the moment it is mostly customs recruitment in Ireland rather than infrastructure. Worth reading.

    Of course May signed up to the Irish Backstop, so they have taken control.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,487
    So if Roe v Wade is overturned looks like there’s an automaticity in 18 states that makes abortion illegal.

    Guttmacher further notes that four states (Louisiana, Mississippi, North Dakota, and South Dakota) have passed laws to automatically ban abortion should Roe be overturned,

    10 have retained pre-Roe abortion bans, and eight have laws that “express their intent to restrict the right to legal abortion to the maximum extent permitted by the U.S. Supreme Court in the absence of Roe”; in total, 18 states fall into one or more of those categories.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2018/6/27/17510896/anthony-kennedys-retirement-puts-abortion-rights-at-risk
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,079

    Tim’s losing it. Last night he was positively tumescent about Roe v Wade being overturned
    Ambrose Evans-Pritchard is saying that if the EU keeps “intimidating” us we should withdraw our troops from Eastern Europe and do a deal with Putin.

    The next few months will be ugly, and let’s hope it’s only a few months...
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    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,818
    Pulpstar said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:



    I don't think playing to lose against the first strong team that we encounter is wise. It is important that we gel as a team and develop a winning mentality. In each side of the draw is one of two joint favourites (Brazil or Spain). In the one side there are misfiring teams like Argentina and France, but in the other there are overperforming minor countries with strong mentalities like Sweden and Denmark.

    Things could look quite different after the Round of 16 in terms of survivors. We also may well find out that Belgium prefers to come second too, making for interesting gamesmanship!

    I reckon we should go for it, with only a few minor changes, such as Rashford in for Sterling. Beating Brazil in a QF is what a the tournament is all about, rather than an ignominious defeat by Japan.

    As my tickets are for the St Petersburg Semi, I have strong interest in this!

    Despite your interest, I am sure you are right that the psychological and morale benefit from a good win against Belgium far outweighs whatever advantage there might be in a different set of future contests. Particularly for England given our persisting hang ups about underperformance at international football. The better teams can't be avoided for ever.
    In the bottom half of the draw the big teams can be avoided till the final !
    If we need to hide in the bottom half out of fear of the big teams, we ain't ever going to make the final.
    Southgate has pointed out that we haven't won a knockout match since 2006. To add to that, we haven't won back-to-back knock-out matches since 1990. So plotting a route to the final based on trying to play teams that are only as potent as, say, Iceland (for example) is utter hubris.

    If we go out to Brazil in the QFs, then we've done pretty well. First, though, we've got to get there, and momentum is a real thing, as is making other sides worry about us. And, given how Brazil, Argentina, Spain, France, Portugal and the rest have played, I'd give us a fair shot at beating any of them, anyway. If we want to win the damn thing, we've either got to play them sooner or later - or play those who've beaten them.

    Trying to find an "easy" route is defeatist. The big teams don't do that. We should simply aim to crush every team between now and the end of our World Cup campaign, whether that's in the R16 or in the final.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    There is no section of the population that respects Tony Blair.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,487

    Tim’s losing it. Last night he was positively tumescent about Roe v Wade being overturned
    Ambrose Evans-Pritchard is saying that if the EU keeps “intimidating” us we should withdraw our troops from Eastern Europe and do a deal with Putin.

    The next few months will be ugly, and let’s hope it’s only a few months...
    Leavers are collaborators, their trials will be fun.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Sean_F said:

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    There is no section of the population that respects Tony Blair.
    Didn’t know you’re a Corbynite.
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    volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Interesting feature on climate change in the podcast.I'm ditching gas central heating and switching to electricity from renewables,which I'm convinced will be cheaper in a few years' time, but these air/ground heat pumps are very interesting.Anyone using them or explored the use of them? Both systems appeal because of national security,not having to rely on Qatari gas and Saudi oil,or those pesky Russians.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,487
    Jonathan said:

    Sean_F said:

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    There is no section of the population that respects Tony Blair.
    Didn’t know you’re a Corbynite.
    He’s a Leaver, so he’s f*ck business and wanting to implement large portions of Michael Foot’s 1983 manifesto, so he’s a Corbynite.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Sean_F said:

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    There is no section of the population that respects Tony Blair.
    I'm afraid I'm not fleet enough of foot. For now the Leavers have moved on to their next hate target, the CBI.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,101

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just two points to make about this:

    1) I don't hate anyone. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
    2) My ire is reserved for those responsible for whipping up xenophobia, not for those who were frightened into believing xenophobic lies.

    It's Leavers who seem to hate every aspect about this country.
    Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    XENOPHOBIC LIES!!!
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    Sean_F said:

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    There is no section of the population that respects Tony Blair.
    I'm afraid I'm not fleet enough of foot. For now the Leavers have moved on to their next hate target, the CBI.
    Seriously, disapproval of Tony Blair is not just confined to Leavers or Corbynites.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Tim’s losing it. Last night he was positively tumescent about Roe v Wade being overturned
    Ambrose Evans-Pritchard is saying that if the EU keeps “intimidating” us we should withdraw our troops from Eastern Europe and do a deal with Putin.

    The next few months will be ugly, and let’s hope it’s only a few months...
    Leavers are collaborators, their trials will be fun.
    Remainers are all traitors, I'm hoping for a mass trial and that we bring back hanging for treason.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    There is no section of the population that respects Tony Blair.
    I'm afraid I'm not fleet enough of foot. For now the Leavers have moved on to their next hate target, the CBI.
    Seriously, disapproval of Tony Blair is not just confined to Leavers or Corbynites.
    He is more popular than populist Leavers and Corbynites like to think.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,487
    edited June 2018
    MaxPB said:

    Tim’s losing it. Last night he was positively tumescent about Roe v Wade being overturned
    Ambrose Evans-Pritchard is saying that if the EU keeps “intimidating” us we should withdraw our troops from Eastern Europe and do a deal with Putin.

    The next few months will be ugly, and let’s hope it’s only a few months...
    Leavers are collaborators, their trials will be fun.
    Remainers are all traitors, I'm hoping for a mass trial and that we bring back hanging for treason.
    Channelling your inner Thomas Mair I see. Sad.

    Be interesting how many of your fellow travellers condemn you.
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just two points to make about this:

    1) I don't hate anyone. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
    2) My ire is reserved for those responsible for whipping up xenophobia, not for those who were frightened into believing xenophobic lies.

    It's Leavers who seem to hate every aspect about this country.
    But Meeks you seem to know that leavers are hating on everything, the leavers might be like you angry on certain things
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    MaxPB said:

    Tim’s losing it. Last night he was positively tumescent about Roe v Wade being overturned
    Ambrose Evans-Pritchard is saying that if the EU keeps “intimidating” us we should withdraw our troops from Eastern Europe and do a deal with Putin.

    The next few months will be ugly, and let’s hope it’s only a few months...
    Leavers are collaborators, their trials will be fun.
    Remainers are all traitors, I'm hoping for a mass trial and that we bring back hanging for treason.

    Need to start stop talking about traitors and killing. We already know there are nutters out there who take that stuff literally.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,101

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just two points to make about this:

    1) I don't hate anyone. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
    2) My ire is reserved for those responsible for whipping up xenophobia, not for those who were frightened into believing xenophobic lies.

    It's Leavers who seem to hate every aspect about this country.
    And why were Remainers so eager to predict a recession after the Leave vote ?

    Including a recession which had a 'dark cloak, a skeletal finger and a voice which speaks in block capitals'.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just two points to make about this:

    1) I don't hate anyone. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
    2) My ire is reserved for those responsible for whipping up xenophobia, not for those who were frightened into believing xenophobic lies.

    It's Leavers who seem to hate every aspect about this country.
    Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
    You seem to think that continuing availability of soft fruits is incompatible with crops rotting in the fields. I'm unclear why. The government seems clear that there's a problem here.

    As for attacks on immigrants, hate crimes were up 29% from 2015/16 to 2016/17 and race hate crimes were up 27% in the same period. So real news.
  • Options

    Interesting feature on climate change in the podcast.I'm ditching gas central heating and switching to electricity from renewables,which I'm convinced will be cheaper in a few years' time, but these air/ground heat pumps are very interesting.Anyone using them or explored the use of them? Both systems appeal because of national security,not having to rely on Qatari gas and Saudi oil,or those pesky Russians.

    My sister in law in Germany has a ground heat pump. They're quite common over there. The installation cost is high, especially for the ground type, but they are obviously a very efficient way of heating. They are basically function as an inside-out fridge, cooling the outside and dissipating the heat inside your house.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    TOPPING said:

    Jonathan said:

    Dave’s quiet because he’s heartbroken about the division and hatred in the country, I know he took the death of Jo Cox quiet badly.

    He’s quite upset about the state of the Tory party too.

    He really screwed up. A relatively decent, bright chap who got carried away by his own mythology. Sad.
    Nah. He was guilty of thinking that the country couldn't possibly vote in favour of anything that Farage, Cash, Redwood, Mogg et al think is a good idea.

    His error was to think that the country was not chock-full of morons.
    The only thing history will show to be chock full of moron's was Cameron's Remain campaign.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    Jonathan said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    There is no section of the population that respects Tony Blair.
    I'm afraid I'm not fleet enough of foot. For now the Leavers have moved on to their next hate target, the CBI.
    Seriously, disapproval of Tony Blair is not just confined to Leavers or Corbynites.
    He is more popular than populist Leavers and Corbynites like to think.
    According to the latest Yougov, (June 16th) 17% like Tony Blair, and 76% dislike him.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,101

    Interesting feature on climate change in the podcast.I'm ditching gas central heating and switching to electricity from renewables,which I'm convinced will be cheaper in a few years' time, but these air/ground heat pumps are very interesting.Anyone using them or explored the use of them? Both systems appeal because of national security,not having to rely on Qatari gas and Saudi oil,or those pesky Russians.

    I was speaking to a plumber recently and he was enthusiastic about heat pumps.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    MaxPB said:

    Tim’s losing it. Last night he was positively tumescent about Roe v Wade being overturned
    Ambrose Evans-Pritchard is saying that if the EU keeps “intimidating” us we should withdraw our troops from Eastern Europe and do a deal with Putin.

    The next few months will be ugly, and let’s hope it’s only a few months...
    Leavers are collaborators, their trials will be fun.
    Remainers are all traitors, I'm hoping for a mass trial and that we bring back hanging for treason.
    Channelling your inner Thomas Mair I see. Sad.

    Be interesting how many of your fellow travellers condemn you.
    Guilty conscience I see. You've betrayed your country, you're nothing more than a traitor who wishes to see this great nation subjugated by Brussels for all eternity.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,963

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just two points to make about this:

    1) I don't hate anyone. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
    2) My ire is reserved for those responsible for whipping up xenophobia, not for those who were frightened into believing xenophobic lies.

    It's Leavers who seem to hate every aspect about this country.
    Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
    You seem to think that continuing availability of soft fruits is incompatible with crops rotting in the fields. I'm unclear why. The government seems clear that there's a problem here.

    As for attacks on immigrants, hate crimes were up 29% from 2015/16 to 2016/17 and race hate crimes were up 27% in the same period. So real news.
    Not true.

    The reports of race hate crimes was up - not least due to people being encouraged to report anything and everything as a race hate crime. The actual number of crimes prosecuted dropped by 8%.

    Basically people like you were whipping up the idea of an increase in hate crime which when properly investigated turned out to be rubbish.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Mr. (John) L, fudging migration may well not do.

    In the short term, conservatives (small c) will back the blues because Corbyn's an off-his--rocker far left idiot. However, longer term, banging on about migration and failing to address it will only create more fuel for a potential far right party.

    A big missed opportunity is that the focus is solely on numbers. That misses a major problem those concerned about migration have, namely culture/integration. Nobody minds the Chinese. They come over here, frequently adopt British names, work hard, pay their taxes and may or may not retain their particular cultural heritage.

    Gangs of Pakistani ethnicity, however, do not integrate, and we've seen (and continue to see, despite under-reporting by the media) the same pattern of gangs committing sexual crimes, usually against children, over prolonged periods of time with the authorities, at best, performing in a lacklustre fashion.

    Political correctness ('cultural sensitivities') stifling open and honest debate has helped fuel this.

    The culture and integration matters at least as much as the numbers, but the numbers seem to be all that the media/politicians think about.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    JackW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Because Cameron has class.

    Blair has none.

    Please can we have Tony Blair on TV every day moaning about Brexit? I can’t tnink of a better way of generating support for anything than being opposed by the lying warmongerer.
    I don't actually want to see Tony Blair any more than I absolutely have to.
    So long as his ugly mug’s on TV disagreeing with me, then I’m okay with it. :)
    Don't you find yourself feeling sickened whenever you see him?
    No.

    Blair is a national politician. Without exception they tell lies, partly because, at times, voters prefer bright sunlit uplands rather than the bleak landscape of reality. That said politicians in power are a mendacious bunch and too many pretty second rate.

    I find my personal default position is to expect lying incompetence from the body politic and be amusingly surprised when a modicum of honesty and adequacy rises to the surface.
    The truth is that Blair is particularly disliked because he was successful. He unites vanquished Liberals, Cobynites and Conservatives. Thatcher was in a similar position. There is nothing the UK body politic dislikes and fears more than a clever winner.

    Osborne gets the same treatment.
    Osborne is more Mandelson than Blair or Thatcher
    Osborne was hugely successful, too much for May to handle. Would have been really interesting now if he had stayed in the Commons.
    Osborne is little different from Anna Soubry in worldview now
    It’s a big what if. If he had stayed in the Commons he would have played his cards more closely to his chest. Would have been a leader in waiting (or not waiting by now).
    Osborne needed a Remain win to become PM, after Leave won his chances of succeeding Cameron disappeared too
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,004

    Interesting feature on climate change in the podcast.I'm ditching gas central heating and switching to electricity from renewables,which I'm convinced will be cheaper in a few years' time, but these air/ground heat pumps are very interesting.Anyone using them or explored the use of them? Both systems appeal because of national security,not having to rely on Qatari gas and Saudi oil,or those pesky Russians.

    We've got one in our house in France as we wanted something we could leave running all the time through winter when we are not there. It works... but go whichever installer specifies the biggest ground loop and the biggest pump. Some do cheap and superficially attractive quotes by undersizing the system and once it's in the ground there is sfa you can do about it. A lot will depend on the land you're going to put it in; the deeper the better and the deeper the dearer. When they started excavating ours they found a flagstone floor from a long demolished forgeron which rather put an expensive crimp in the operation.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,043
    MaxPB said:

    XENOPHOBIC LIES!!!

    That is a remarkably and unusually self-observant post... ;)
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,101

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just two points to make about this:

    1) I don't hate anyone. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
    2) My ire is reserved for those responsible for whipping up xenophobia, not for those who were frightened into believing xenophobic lies.

    It's Leavers who seem to hate every aspect about this country.
    Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
    You seem to think that continuing availability of soft fruits is incompatible with crops rotting in the fields. I'm unclear why. The government seems clear that there's a problem here.

    As for attacks on immigrants, hate crimes were up 29% from 2015/16 to 2016/17 and race hate crimes were up 27% in the same period. So real news.
    Perhaps you could provide some evidence of people actually being convicted of hate crimes associated with Brexit.

    And you know the reason I have doubts about them occurring is if there were such convictions then this site would have had endless numbers of pasted tweets about them.

    As to crops rotting in the fields, there's no evidence at all of it while the shops are filled with food and the number of agricultural workers is at a twenty year high.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just two points to make about this:

    1) I don't hate anyone. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
    2) My ire is reserved for those responsible for whipping up xenophobia, not for those who were frightened into believing xenophobic lies.

    It's Leavers who seem to hate every aspect about this country.
    Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
    You seem to think that continuing availability of soft fruits is incompatible with crops rotting in the fields. I'm unclear why. The government seems clear that there's a problem here.

    As for attacks on immigrants, hate crimes were up 29% from 2015/16 to 2016/17 and race hate crimes were up 27% in the same period. So real news.
    Not true.

    The reports of race hate crimes was up - not least due to people being encouraged to report anything and everything as a race hate crime. The actual number of crimes prosecuted dropped by 8%.

    Basically people like you were whipping up the idea of an increase in hate crime which when properly investigated turned out to be rubbish.
    The desperation of Leave advocates to avoid culpability, in the face of the clearest of evidence, for the effects of their falling in behind xenophobic lies is pitiful. The ONS itself links the rise in part to the referendum campaign.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,325

    Tim’s losing it. Last night he was positively tumescent about Roe v Wade being overturned
    Ambrose Evans-Pritchard is saying that if the EU keeps “intimidating” us we should withdraw our troops from Eastern Europe and do a deal with Putin.

    The next few months will be ugly, and let’s hope it’s only a few months...
    Leavers are collaborators, their trials will be fun.
    Me, are you kidding? Hey, I was with you all the time! That was beautiful! Did you see the way the Leavers fell into our trap? Ha ha!
  • Options
    ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201

    TOPPING said:

    Jonathan said:

    Dave’s quiet because he’s heartbroken about the division and hatred in the country, I know he took the death of Jo Cox quiet badly.

    He’s quite upset about the state of the Tory party too.

    He really screwed up. A relatively decent, bright chap who got carried away by his own mythology. Sad.
    Nah. He was guilty of thinking that the country couldn't possibly vote in favour of anything that Farage, Cash, Redwood, Mogg et al think is a good idea.

    His error was to think that the country was not chock-full of morons.
    The only thing history will show to be chock full of moron's was Cameron's Remain campaign.
    I have some sympathy with Cameron and Osborne over this. I think that the campaign was lost before Cameron got involved. Basically it was the two bosses of BSIE, one a labour bod who had failed to get elected and the other the ex Head of Strategy for the Lib Dems (basically responsible for the Lib Dem performance at GE2015). They thought that they would just get a few celebs to tour the TV studies saying "the EU is lovely and only nasty people and nutters would want to leave." For example, they never even did the basics like have a call to action "Vote Remain - blankblankblank" Why should we vote remain? er we do not know.

    They met a group of battle hardened professionals, who were ruthless. They had spent 18 months preparing, knew the messages, knew what the electorate would respond to and then they hit the Remain Campaign over the head from day one. I can remember thinking oh no we are going to have months of bent banana's and accounts not signed off and eurocrats, etc.
    Then they led with "350 mill for the NHS" and I thought "oh why lead with that," this is interesting and we were off to observe a fascinating campaign. The problem for remain was they were shell shocked as well, and were like rabbits in the headlights from the start until Cameron took over.
    By the time Cameron and Osborne could get involved officially they got a hospital pass and really only had one choice, go negative and the only resource they had to do the work was the Treasury so they had to go negative on the economy.
    Vote Leave just kept whacking them over the head though.
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just two points to make about this:

    1) I don't hate anyone. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
    2) My ire is reserved for those responsible for whipping up xenophobia, not for those who were frightened into believing xenophobic lies.

    It's Leavers who seem to hate every aspect about this country.
    Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
    You seem to think that continuing availability of soft fruits is incompatible with crops rotting in the fields. I'm unclear why. The government seems clear that there's a problem here.

    As for attacks on immigrants, hate crimes were up 29% from 2015/16 to 2016/17 and race hate crimes were up 27% in the same period. So real news.
    Perhaps you could provide some evidence of people actually being convicted of hate crimes associated with Brexit.

    And you know the reason I have doubts about them occurring is if there were such convictions then this site would have had endless numbers of pasted tweets about them.

    As to crops rotting in the fields, there's no evidence at all of it while the shops are filled with food and the number of agricultural workers is at a twenty year high.
    Our Alistair knows everything like leavers hating and remainers are just angry.

    I'm sure he can bring hundreds of evidence of convictions associated with brexit.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,487

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just two points to make about this:

    1) I don't hate anyone. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
    2) My ire is reserved for those responsible for whipping up xenophobia, not for those who were frightened into believing xenophobic lies.

    It's Leavers who seem to hate every aspect about this country.
    Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
    You seem to think that continuing availability of soft fruits is incompatible with crops rotting in the fields. I'm unclear why. The government seems clear that there's a problem here.

    As for attacks on immigrants, hate crimes were up 29% from 2015/16 to 2016/17 and race hate crimes were up 27% in the same period. So real news.
    Perhaps you could provide some evidence of people actually being convicted of hate crimes associated with Brexit.

    And you know the reason I have doubts about them occurring is if there were such convictions then this site would have had endless numbers of pasted tweets about them.

    As to crops rotting in the fields, there's no evidence at all of it while the shops are filled with food and the number of agricultural workers is at a twenty year high.
    Four times since the referendum I’ve seen or experienced verbal attacks along the lines of ‘Fuck off home we voted Brexit’, most recently last month in Leeds from supporters of Tommy Robinson, directed towards a Polish chap.

    So they are happening.

    Unless they are physical or recorded there’s a low chance of conviction as it becomes he said/they said so they don’t get reported.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just two points to make about this:

    1) I don't hate anyone. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
    2) My ire is reserved for those responsible for whipping up xenophobia, not for those who were frightened into believing xenophobic lies.

    It's Leavers who seem to hate every aspect about this country.
    Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
    You seem to think that continuing availability of soft fruits is incompatible with crops rotting in the fields. I'm unclear why. The government seems clear that there's a problem here.

    As for attacks on immigrants, hate crimes were up 29% from 2015/16 to 2016/17 and race hate crimes were up 27% in the same period. So real news.
    Not true.

    The reports of race hate crimes was up - not least due to people being encouraged to report anything and everything as a race hate crime. The actual number of crimes prosecuted dropped by 8%.

    Basically people like you were whipping up the idea of an increase in hate crime which when properly investigated turned out to be rubbish.
    The desperation of Leave advocates to avoid culpability, in the face of the clearest of evidence, for the effects of their falling in behind xenophobic lies is pitiful. The ONS itself links the rise in part to the referendum campaign.
    Which Xenophobic lies are these Mr Meeks ? You never seem to be able to specify what they were.

  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just two points to make about this:

    1) I don't hate anyone. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
    2) My ire is reserved for those responsible for whipping up xenophobia, not for those who were frightened into believing xenophobic lies.

    It's Leavers who seem to hate every aspect about this country.
    Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
    You seem to think that continuing availability of soft fruits is incompatible with crops rotting in the fields. I'm unclear why. The government seems clear that there's a problem here.

    As for attacks on immigrants, hate crimes were up 29% from 2015/16 to 2016/17 and race hate crimes were up 27% in the same period. So real news.
    Perhaps you could provide some evidence of people actually being convicted of hate crimes associated with Brexit.

    And you know the reason I have doubts about them occurring is if there were such convictions then this site would have had endless numbers of pasted tweets about them.

    As to crops rotting in the fields, there's no evidence at all of it while the shops are filled with food and the number of agricultural workers is at a twenty year high.
    Our Alistair knows everything like leavers hating and remainers are just angry.

    I'm sure he can bring hundreds of evidence of convictions associated with brexit.
    I’m happy to rely on the ONS assessment.

    The general public agrees, it seems. The one time I have found that they were asked, they thought Britain had become more racist since the referendum.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,394
    Sean_F said:

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    There is no section of the population that respects Tony Blair.
    Sean_F said:

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    There is no section of the population that respects Tony Blair.
    There is a (small) chunk that does.

    Now and then I meet successful middle class professionals who work in town and live in the Home Counties who are very centrist and liberal (internationally) who had time for him. I’d even argue George Osborne was one.

    But, they can’t exceed 10% or so of the electorate.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just two points to make about this:

    1) I don't hate anyone. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
    2) My ire is reserved for those responsible for whipping up xenophobia, not for those who were frightened into believing xenophobic lies.

    It's Leavers who seem to hate every aspect about this country.
    Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
    You seem to think that continuing availability of soft fruits is incompatible with crops rotting in the fields. I'm unclear why. The government seems clear that there's a problem here.

    As for attacks on immigrants, hate crimes were up 29% from 2015/16 to 2016/17 and race hate crimes were up 27% in the same period. So real news.
    Not true.

    The reports of race hate crimes was up - not least due to people being encouraged to report anything and everything as a race hate crime. The actual number of crimes prosecuted dropped by 8%.

    Basically people like you were whipping up the idea of an increase in hate crime which when properly investigated turned out to be rubbish.
    The desperation of Leave advocates to avoid culpability, in the face of the clearest of evidence, for the effects of their falling in behind xenophobic lies is pitiful. The ONS itself links the rise in part to the referendum campaign.
    You wish to believe that the campaign was a battle between the forces of light and the forces of darkness.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Sean_F said:

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    There is no section of the population that respects Tony Blair.
    Sean_F said:

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    There is no section of the population that respects Tony Blair.
    There is a (small) chunk that does.

    Now and then I meet successful middle class professionals who work in town and live in the Home Counties who are very centrist and liberal (internationally) who had time for him. I’d even argue George Osborne was one.

    But, they can’t exceed 10% or so of the electorate.
    Which town :) ?
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just two points to make about this:

    1) I don't hate anyone. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
    2) My ire is reserved for those responsible for whipping up xenophobia, not for those who were frightened into believing xenophobic lies.

    It's Leavers who seem to hate every aspect about this country.
    Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
    You seem to think that continuing availability of soft fruits is incompatible with crops rotting in the fields. I'm unclear why. The government seems clear that there's a problem here.

    As for attacks on immigrants, hate crimes were up 29% from 2015/16 to 2016/17 and race hate crimes were up 27% in the same period. So real news.
    Perhaps you could provide some evidence of people actually being convicted of hate crimes associated with Brexit.

    And you know the reason I have doubts about them occurring is if there were such convictions then this site would have had endless numbers of pasted tweets about them.

    As to crops rotting in the fields, there's no evidence at all of it while the shops are filled with food and the number of agricultural workers is at a twenty year high.
    Our Alistair knows everything like leavers hating and remainers are just angry.

    I'm sure he can bring hundreds of evidence of convictions associated with brexit.
    I’m happy to rely on the ONS assessment.

    The general public agrees, it seems. The one time I have found that they were asked, they thought Britain had become more racist since the referendum.
    "thought"

    Lol.

  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    The Liz Truss fan club at the Telegraph has more today.

    Liz Truss, the chief secretary to the Treasury, has done her reputation with the party’s Thatcherite wing a world of good with her brilliant speech on Monday. Speaking to the London School of Economics, she delivered the most pro-liberty and pro-capitalist speech I have heard from a senior Tory in years.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/06/28/javid-truss-dream-team-reviving-hopes-thatcherite-tories/
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,963

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just two points to make about this:

    1) I don't hate anyone. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
    2) My ire is reserved for those responsible for whipping up xenophobia, not for those who were frightened into believing xenophobic lies.

    It's Leavers who seem to hate every aspect about this country.
    Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
    You seem to think that continuing availability of soft fruits is incompatible with crops rotting in the fields. I'm unclear why. The government seems clear that there's a problem here.

    As for attacks on immigrants, hate crimes were up 29% from 2015/16 to 2016/17 and race hate crimes were up 27% in the same period. So real news.
    Not true.

    The reports of race hate crimes was up - not least due to people being encouraged to report anything and everything as a race hate crime. The actual number of crimes prosecuted dropped by 8%.

    Basically people like you were whipping up the idea of an increase in hate crime which when properly investigated turned out to be rubbish.
    The desperation of Leave advocates to avoid culpability, in the face of the clearest of evidence, for the effects of their falling in behind xenophobic lies is pitiful. The ONS itself links the rise in part to the referendum campaign.
    So you are claiming the Police and CPS are part of some conspiracy to under-prosecute hate crimes?

    As lunatic conspiracies go it is a good one. Mind you your sanity has long been questionable when it comes to this topic.
  • Options
    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,818

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just two points to make about this:

    1) I don't hate anyone. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
    2) My ire is reserved for those responsible for whipping up xenophobia, not for those who were frightened into believing xenophobic lies.

    It's Leavers who seem to hate every aspect about this country.
    Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
    You seem to think that continuing availability of soft fruits is incompatible with crops rotting in the fields. I'm unclear why. The government seems clear that there's a problem here.

    As for attacks on immigrants, hate crimes were up 29% from 2015/16 to 2016/17 and race hate crimes were up 27% in the same period. So real news.
    Perhaps you could provide some evidence of people actually being convicted of hate crimes associated with Brexit.

    And you know the reason I have doubts about them occurring is if there were such convictions then this site would have had endless numbers of pasted tweets about them.

    As to crops rotting in the fields, there's no evidence at all of it while the shops are filled with food and the number of agricultural workers is at a twenty year high.
    Four times since the referendum I’ve seen or experienced verbal attacks along the lines of ‘Fuck off home we voted Brexit’, most recently last month in Leeds from supporters of Tommy Robinson, directed towards a Polish chap.

    So they are happening.

    Unless they are physical or recorded there’s a low chance of conviction as it becomes he said/they said so they don’t get reported.
    To be honest, we've noticed it as well. One of my wife's closest friends is an Austrian married to an Australian and living here with their kids. They're now migrating to Australia, having experienced post-Brexit nastiness. Their kid has had a tough time at school for her background and they've had enough of her coming home in tears (and they've experienced it directly as well).
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,963
    TGOHF said:

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just two points to make about this:

    1) I don't hate anyone. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
    2) My ire is reserved for those responsible for whipping up xenophobia, not for those who were frightened into believing xenophobic lies.

    It's Leavers who seem to hate every aspect about this country.
    Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
    You seem to think that continuing availability of soft fruits is incompatible with crops rotting in the fields. I'm unclear why. The government seems clear that there's a problem here.

    As for attacks on immigrants, hate crimes were up 29% from 2015/16 to 2016/17 and race hate crimes were up 27% in the same period. So real news.
    Not true.

    The reports of race hate crimes was up - not least due to people being encouraged to report anything and everything as a race hate crime. The actual number of crimes prosecuted dropped by 8%.

    Basically people like you were whipping up the idea of an increase in hate crime which when properly investigated turned out to be rubbish.
    The desperation of Leave advocates to avoid culpability, in the face of the clearest of evidence, for the effects of their falling in behind xenophobic lies is pitiful. The ONS itself links the rise in part to the referendum campaign.
    Which Xenophobic lies are these Mr Meeks ? You never seem to be able to specify what they were.

    Apparently the Police and CPS have had a campaign to.ignore hate crimes because they are all rampant Brexiteers
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just two points to make about this:

    1) I don't hate anyone. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
    2) My ire is reserved for those responsible for whipping up xenophobia, not for those who were frightened into believing xenophobic lies.

    It's Leavers who seem to hate every aspect about this country.
    Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
    You seem to think that continuing availability of soft fruits is incompatible with crops rotting in the fields. I'm unclear why. The government seems clear that there's a problem here.

    As for attacks on immigrants, hate crimes were up 29% from 2015/16 to 2016/17 and race hate crimes were up 27% in the same period. So real news.
    Not true.

    The reports of race hate crimes was up - not least due to people being encouraged to report anything and everything as a race hate crime. The actual number of crimes prosecuted dropped by 8%.

    Basically people like you were whipping up the idea of an increase in hate crime which when properly investigated turned out to be rubbish.
    The desperation of Leave advocates to avoid culpability, in the face of the clearest of evidence, for the effects of their falling in behind xenophobic lies is pitiful. The ONS itself links the rise in part to the referendum campaign.
    Which Xenophobic lies are these Mr Meeks ? You never seem to be able to specify what they were.

    Apparently the Police and CPS have had a campaign to.ignore hate crimes because they are all rampant Brexiteers
    I heard one of the biggest hate crimes was believing Cameron and the EU when they said Turkey could join the EU - utterly despicable that people would choose to believe their PM.

    I'm disgusted.

  • Options
    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited June 2018
    Jonathan said:

    MaxPB said:

    Tim’s losing it. Last night he was positively tumescent about Roe v Wade being overturned
    Ambrose Evans-Pritchard is saying that if the EU keeps “intimidating” us we should withdraw our troops from Eastern Europe and do a deal with Putin.

    The next few months will be ugly, and let’s hope it’s only a few months...
    Leavers are collaborators, their trials will be fun.
    Remainers are all traitors, I'm hoping for a mass trial and that we bring back hanging for treason.

    Need to start stop talking about traitors and killing. We already know there are nutters out there who take that stuff literally.
    For instance, a few years ago when pedophilia was in the news, I seem to recall that somebody stoned an office with a plaque saying "pediatrician".
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Mr. Eagles/Mr. Cooke, sorry to hear that.

    If migration continue to be talked about but action to be utterly absent/inadequate, I fear it will only get worse.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,101

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just two points to make about this:

    1) I don't hate anyone. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
    2) My ire is reserved for those responsible for whipping up xenophobia, not for those who were frightened into believing xenophobic lies.

    It's Leavers who seem to hate every aspect about this country.
    Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
    You seem to think that continuing availability of soft fruits is incompatible with crops rotting in the fields. I'm unclear why. The government seems clear that there's a problem here.

    As for attacks on immigrants, hate crimes were up 29% from 2015/16 to 2016/17 and race hate crimes were up 27% in the same period. So real news.
    Perhaps you could provide some evidence of people actually being convicted of hate crimes associated with Brexit.

    And you know the reason I have doubts about them occurring is if there were such convictions then this site would have had endless numbers of pasted tweets about them.

    As to crops rotting in the fields, there's no evidence at all of it while the shops are filled with food and the number of agricultural workers is at a twenty year high.
    Four times since the referendum I’ve seen or experienced verbal attacks along the lines of ‘Fuck off home we voted Brexit’, most recently last month in Leeds from supporters of Tommy Robinson, directed towards a Polish chap.

    So they are happening.

    Unless they are physical or recorded there’s a low chance of conviction as it becomes he said/they said so they don’t get reported.
    Yet we are told reports of hate crimes soared.

    So where are the convictions ?

    We all know that the authorities would have been very happy to take action.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    On predictit:
    Kavanaugh, Barrett, Kethledge, Hardiman, Tharpar all over 10% probability for SCOTUS
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just two points to make about this:

    1) I don't hate anyone. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
    2) My ire is reserved for those responsible for whipping up xenophobia, not for those who were frightened into believing xenophobic lies.

    It's Leavers who seem to hate every aspect about this country.
    Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
    You seem to think that continuing availability of soft fruits is incompatible with crops rotting in the fields. I'm unclear why. The government seems clear that there's a problem here.

    As for attacks on immigrants, hate crimes were up 29% from 2015/16 to 2016/17 and race hate crimes were up 27% in the same period. So real news.
    Not true.

    The reports of race hate crimes was up - not least due to people being encouraged to report anything and everything as a race hate crime. The actual number of crimes prosecuted dropped by 8%.

    Basically people like you were whipping up the idea of an increase in hate crime which when properly investigated turned out to be rubbish.
    The desperation of Leave advocates to avoid culpability, in the face of the clearest of evidence, for the effects of their falling in behind xenophobic lies is pitiful. The ONS itself links the rise in part to the referendum campaign.
    So you are claiming the Police and CPS are part of some conspiracy to under-prosecute hate crimes?

    As lunatic conspiracies go it is a good one. Mind you your sanity has long been questionable when it comes to this topic.
    I have not so far made any comment on the prosecution rates. There can be any number of reasons why cases do not get prosecuted. No conspiracy is required.

    The lunatic conspiracy is to decide to disregard ONS statistics because they are inconvenient to you.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    TGOHF said:

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just two points to make about this:

    1) I don't hate anyone. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
    2) My ire is reserved for those responsible for whipping up xenophobia, not for those who were frightened into believing xenophobic lies.

    It's Leavers who seem to hate every aspect about this country.
    Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
    You seem to think that continuing availability of soft fruits is incompatible with crops rotting in the fields. I'm unclear why. The government seems clear that there's a problem here.

    As for attacks on immigrants, hate crimes were up 29% from 2015/16 to 2016/17 and race hate crimes were up 27% in the same period. So real news.
    Perhaps you could provide some evidence of people actually being convicted of hate crimes associated with Brexit.

    And you know the reason I have doubts about them occurring is if there were such convictions then this site would have had endless numbers of pasted tweets about them.

    As to crops rotting in the fields, there's no evidence at all of it while the shops are filled with food and the number of agricultural workers is at a twenty year high.
    Our Alistair knows everything like leavers hating and remainers are just angry.

    I'm sure he can bring hundreds of evidence of convictions associated with brexit.
    I’m happy to rely on the ONS assessment.

    The general public agrees, it seems. The one time I have found that they were asked, they thought Britain had become more racist since the referendum.
    "thought"

    Lol.

    Just for you:

    https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-britain-sky-data-poll-reveals-a-nation-divided-10713985

    57% of people thought Britain had become more racist than a year previously at the start of 2017.

    I have not seen more recent polling - has anyone else?
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    edited June 2018
    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    There is no section of the population that respects Tony Blair.
    I'm afraid I'm not fleet enough of foot. For now the Leavers have moved on to their next hate target, the CBI.
    Seriously, disapproval of Tony Blair is not just confined to Leavers or Corbynites.
    He is more popular than populist Leavers and Corbynites like to think.
    According to the latest Yougov, (June 16th) 17% like Tony Blair, and 76% dislike him.
    17% is a lot more than "no section" and not at all bad for a retired politician, let alone one that gets the populists and the Corbynites ranting. Better than most hopefuls for next Tory leader.

    Give him a couple of months on the campaign stump and he could get back to the 35% he needed to win a majority.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just two points to make about this:

    1) I don't hate anyone. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
    2) My ire is reserved for those responsible for whipping up xenophobia, not for those who were frightened into believing xenophobic lies.

    It's Leavers who seem to hate every aspect about this country.
    Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
    You seem to think that continuing availability of soft fruits is incompatible with crops rotting in the fields. I'm unclear why. The government seems clear that there's a problem here.

    As for attacks on immigrants, hate crimes were up 29% from 2015/16 to 2016/17 and race hate crimes were up 27% in the same period. So real news.
    Not true.

    The reports of race hate crimes was up - not least due to people being encouraged to report anything and everything as a race hate crime. The actual number of crimes prosecuted dropped by 8%.

    Basically people like you were whipping up the idea of an increase in hate crime which when properly investigated turned out to be rubbish.
    The desperation of Leave advocates to avoid culpability, in the face of the clearest of evidence, for the effects of their falling in behind xenophobic lies is pitiful. The ONS itself links the rise in part to the referendum campaign.
    So you are claiming the Police and CPS are part of some conspiracy to under-prosecute hate crimes?

    As lunatic conspiracies go it is a good one. Mind you your sanity has long been questionable when it comes to this topic.
    As has been observed on here before, there is a difference between a hate crime and a hate incident. Many people seem happy to conflate the latter with the former.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,487
    edited June 2018

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just two points to make about this:

    1) I don't hate anyone. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
    2) My ire is reserved for those responsible for whipping up xenophobia, not for those who were frightened into believing xenophobic lies.

    It's Leavers who seem to hate every aspect about this country.
    Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
    You seem to think that continuing availability of soft fruits is incompatible with crops rotting in the fields. I'm unclear why. The government seems clear that there's a problem here.

    As for attacks on immigrants, hate crimes were up 29% from 2015/16 to 2016/17 and race hate crimes were up 27% in the same period. So real news.
    Perhaps you could provide some evidence of people actually being convicted of hate crimes associated with Brexit.

    And you know the reason I have doubts about them occurring is if there were such convictions then this site would have had endless numbers of pasted tweets about them.

    As to crops rotting in the fields, there's no evidence at all of it while the shops are filled with food and the number of agricultural workers is at a twenty year high.
    Four times since the referendum I’ve seen or experienced verbal attacks along the lines of ‘Fuck off home we voted Brexit’, most recently last month in Leeds from supporters of Tommy Robinson, directed towards a Polish chap.

    So they are happening.

    Unless they are physical or recorded there’s a low chance of conviction as it becomes he said/they said so they don’t get reported.
    Yet we are told reports of hate crimes soared.

    So where are the convictions ?

    We all know that the authorities would have been very happy to take action.
    They fail the evidentiary test because of a lack of recorded evidence.

    The courts can’t lower the bar.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,721
    Sean_F said:

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just two points to make about this:

    1) I don't hate anyone. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
    2) My ire is reserved for those responsible for whipping up xenophobia, not for those who were frightened into believing xenophobic lies.

    It's Leavers who seem to hate every aspect about this country.
    Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
    You seem to think that continuing availability of soft fruits is incompatible with crops rotting in the fields. I'm unclear why. The government seems clear that there's a problem here.

    As for attacks on immigrants, hate crimes were up 29% from 2015/16 to 2016/17 and race hate crimes were up 27% in the same period. So real news.
    Not true.

    The reports of race hate crimes was up - not least due to people being encouraged to report anything and everything as a race hate crime. The actual number of crimes prosecuted dropped by 8%.

    Basically people like you were whipping up the idea of an increase in hate crime which when properly investigated turned out to be rubbish.
    The desperation of Leave advocates to avoid culpability, in the face of the clearest of evidence, for the effects of their falling in behind xenophobic lies is pitiful. The ONS itself links the rise in part to the referendum campaign.
    You wish to believe that the campaign was a battle between the forces of light and the forces of darkness.
    There was a choice, one was better than the other.
    The worse choice won by a small margin.
    See also Trump's election.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,043
    Toms said:

    Jonathan said:

    MaxPB said:

    Tim’s losing it. Last night he was positively tumescent about Roe v Wade being overturned
    Ambrose Evans-Pritchard is saying that if the EU keeps “intimidating” us we should withdraw our troops from Eastern Europe and do a deal with Putin.

    The next few months will be ugly, and let’s hope it’s only a few months...
    Leavers are collaborators, their trials will be fun.
    Remainers are all traitors, I'm hoping for a mass trial and that we bring back hanging for treason.

    Need to start stop talking about traitors and killing. We already know there are nutters out there who take that stuff literally.
    For instance, a few years ago when pedophilia was in the news, I seem to recall that somebody stoned an office with a plaque saying "pediatrician".
    IIRC, there was a Private eye cartoon of someone running away from a mob saying: "I'm a paediatrician!"

    A short while later, it actually happened.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/aug/30/childprotection.society
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    edited June 2018
    I guess we won't be seeing David Miliband back in front line politics:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44640086
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,963

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just two points to make about this:

    1) I don't hate anyone. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
    2) My ire is reserved for those responsible for whipping up xenophobia, not for those who were frightened into believing xenophobic lies.

    It's Leavers who seem to hate every aspect about this country.
    Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
    You seem to think that continuing availability of soft fruits is incompatible with crops rotting in the fields. I'm unclear why. The government seems clear that there's a problem here.

    As for attacks on immigrants, hate crimes were up 29% from 2015/16 to 2016/17 and race hate crimes were up 27% in the same period. So real news.
    Perhaps you could provide some evidence of people actually being convicted of hate crimes associated with Brexit.

    And you know the reason I have doubts about them occurring is if there were such convictions then this site would have had endless numbers of pasted tweets about them.

    As to crops rotting in the fields, there's no evidence at all of it while the shops are filled with food and the number of agricultural workers is at a twenty year high.
    Four times since the referendum I’ve seen or experienced verbal attacks along the lines of ‘Fuck off home we voted Brexit’, most recently last month in Leeds from supporters of Tommy Robinson, directed towards a Polish chap.

    So they are happening.

    Unless they are physical or recorded there’s a low chance of conviction as it becomes he said/they said so they don’t get reported.
    Yet we are told reports of hate crimes soared.

    So where are the convictions ?

    We all know that the authorities would have been very happy to take action.
    They fail the evidentiary test because of a lack of recorded evidence.

    The courts can’t lower the bar.
    So in spite of attacks apparently going up by 27% the Police managed to find evidence in 8% fewer cases than in the previous year.

  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,259

    The Liz Truss fan club at the Telegraph has more today.

    Liz Truss, the chief secretary to the Treasury, has done her reputation with the party’s Thatcherite wing a world of good with her brilliant speech on Monday. Speaking to the London School of Economics, she delivered the most pro-liberty and pro-capitalist speech I have heard from a senior Tory in years.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/06/28/javid-truss-dream-team-reviving-hopes-thatcherite-tories/

    In last week's New Statesman, Nick Timothy had a long article about future of Tories, political philosophy, Edmund Burke etc. Quite a good read.

    Interestingly, he has a go at Tory libertarians who love reading Ayn Rand.

    Did he know, when writing this, that Javid is a big fan of Rand and claims to reread a chapter or two of her books every year?
  • Options
    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    An England striker scores a hat-trick at the highpoint of their campaign. It fits perfectly. Oh.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,963
    tlg86 said:

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just two points to make about this:

    1) I don't hate anyone. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
    2) My ire is reserved for those responsible for whipping up xenophobia, not for those who were frightened into believing xenophobic lies.

    It's Leavers who seem to hate every aspect about this country.
    Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
    You seem to think that continuing availability of soft fruits is incompatible with crops rotting in the fields. I'm unclear why. The government seems clear that there's a problem here.

    As for attacks on immigrants, hate crimes were up 29% from 2015/16 to 2016/17 and race hate crimes were up 27% in the same period. So real news.
    Not true.

    The reports of race hate crimes was up - not least due to people being encouraged to report anything and everything as a race hate crime. The actual number of crimes prosecuted dropped by 8%.

    Basically people like you were whipping up the idea of an increase in hate crime which when properly investigated turned out to be rubbish.
    The desperation of Leave advocates to avoid culpability, in the face of the clearest of evidence, for the effects of their falling in behind xenophobic lies is pitiful. The ONS itself links the rise in part to the referendum campaign.
    So you are claiming the Police and CPS are part of some conspiracy to under-prosecute hate crimes?

    As lunatic conspiracies go it is a good one. Mind you your sanity has long been questionable when it comes to this topic.
    As has been observed on here before, there is a difference between a hate crime and a hate incident. Many people seem happy to conflate the latter with the former.
    But Alistair specifically said hate crimes. Which is also the data set I referenced.

    Basically he is thrashing around desperately trying to prove his case and failing dismally.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited June 2018



    So in spite of attacks apparently going up by 27% the Police managed to find evidence in 8% fewer cases than in the previous year.

    Meanwhile stabbings in London up 23% yoy...
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,900
    Good on them. If anyone needs to be located in an English-speaking, common-law, low-tax country inside the EU after Brexit, Malta is an excellent choice. Much better weather than Ireland.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    The Liz Truss fan club at the Telegraph has more today.

    Liz Truss, the chief secretary to the Treasury, has done her reputation with the party’s Thatcherite wing a world of good with her brilliant speech on Monday. Speaking to the London School of Economics, she delivered the most pro-liberty and pro-capitalist speech I have heard from a senior Tory in years.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/06/28/javid-truss-dream-team-reviving-hopes-thatcherite-tories/

    In last week's New Statesman, Nick Timothy had a long article about future of Tories, political philosophy, Edmund Burke etc. Quite a good read.

    Interestingly, he has a go at Tory libertarians who love reading Ayn Rand.

    Did he know, when writing this, that Javid is a big fan of Rand and claims to reread a chapter or two of her books every year?
    Good grief. He is a glutton for punishment. Atlas Shrugged is the most turgid of books.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,487



    So in spite of attacks apparently going up by 27% the Police managed to find evidence in 8% fewer cases than in the previous year.

    Yes, that’s what happens when the attacks are verbal in nature, there’s less evidence available.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Sandpit said:

    Good on them. If anyone needs to be located in an English-speaking, common-law, low-tax country inside the EU after Brexit, Malta is an excellent choice. Much better weather than Ireland.
    The only thing is they'll look a bit silly if Malta maltexits over migrant boat issues, and then implements THER WILL OF THER PEOPLE as per the 1956 referendum.
  • Options
    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    edited June 2018

    Interesting feature on climate change in the podcast.I'm ditching gas central heating and switching to electricity from renewables,which I'm convinced will be cheaper in a few years' time, but these air/ground heat pumps are very interesting.Anyone using them or explored the use of them? Both systems appeal because of national security,not having to rely on Qatari gas and Saudi oil,or those pesky Russians.

    My brother-in-law is having his house built in West Cork right now and he will have an air source heat pump installed. He told me that the pace of development in them recently is very fast, so he's waiting until the last moment to choose a model to install. He will use his to partially heat his hot water too.

    Britain and Ireland don't have the cold temperatures in winter to require a ground source heat pump.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,004
    Sandpit said:

    Good on them. If anyone needs to be located in an English-speaking, common-law, low-tax country inside the EU after Brexit, Malta is an excellent choice. Much better weather than Ireland.
    It's also covered in fucking rubbish and their national sport is shooting dogs.

    I had a hair raising run ashore on my Invincible med cruise. On the homeward leg Malta was known as the "PCOD" (P*ssy Cut Off Day). It was felt to be the last day on which could be pleasured by a feculent pro found on "The Gut" and still be in with a chance of getting cured by the doc before returning to home and hearth. Gib was cutting it a bit fine for the antibiotics to be fully effective. You don't hear about any of this on the "Armed Forces Day" bollocks.
  • Options
    TomsToms Posts: 2,478

    Toms said:

    Jonathan said:

    MaxPB said:

    Tim’s losing it. Last night he was positively tumescent about Roe v Wade being overturned
    Ambrose Evans-Pritchard is saying that if the EU keeps “intimidating” us we should withdraw our troops from Eastern Europe and do a deal with Putin.

    The next few months will be ugly, and let’s hope it’s only a few months...
    Leavers are collaborators, their trials will be fun.
    Remainers are all traitors, I'm hoping for a mass trial and that we bring back hanging for treason.

    Need to start stop talking about traitors and killing. We already know there are nutters out there who take that stuff literally.
    For instance, a few years ago when pedophilia was in the news, I seem to recall that somebody stoned an office with a plaque saying "pediatrician".
    IIRC, there was a Private eye cartoon of someone running away from a mob saying: "I'm a paediatrician!"

    A short while later, it actually happened.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/aug/30/childprotection.society
    Yes, that's the one.
    Playing around one might suppose a confusion between "treater", as with the EU, and "traitor".
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,394

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just
    Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
    Yo.
    Perhaps you could provide some evidence of people actually being convicted of hate crimes associated with Brexit.

    And you know the reason I have doubts about them occurring is if there were such convictions then this site would have had endless numbers of pasted tweets about them.

    As to crops rotting in the fields, there's no evidence at all of it while the shops are filled with food and the number of agricultural workers is at a twenty year high.
    Four times since the referendum I’ve seen or experienced verbal attacks along the lines of ‘Fuck off home we voted Brexit’, most recently last month in Leeds from supporters of Tommy Robinson, directed towards a Polish chap.

    So they are happening.

    Unless they are physical or recorded there’s a low chance of conviction as it becomes he said/they said so they don’t get reported.
    To be honest, we've noticed it as well. One of my wife's closest friends is an Austrian married to an Australian and living here with their kids. They're now migrating to Australia, having experienced post-Brexit nastiness. Their kid has had a tough time at school for her background and they've had enough of her coming home in tears (and they've experienced it directly as well).
    Funny. This is something ardent Remainers tell “anecdotes” about all the time, but my wife, her friends and my international friends have never experienced or mentioned anything of the sort.

    They are all happy to be here. Some are applying for British passports, and that’s the only difference I’ve seen.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,043
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good on them. If anyone needs to be located in an English-speaking, common-law, low-tax country inside the EU after Brexit, Malta is an excellent choice. Much better weather than Ireland.
    It's also covered in fucking rubbish and their national sport is shooting dogs.

    I had a hair raising run ashore on my Invincible med cruise. On the homeward leg Malta was known as the "PCOD" (P*ssy Cut Off Day). It was felt to be the last day on which could be pleasured by a feculent pro found on "The Gut" and still be in with a chance of getting cured by the doc before returning to home and hearth. Gib was cutting it a bit fine for the antibiotics to be fully effective. You don't hear about any of this on the "Armed Forces Day" bollocks.
    A Malta anecdote:

    A friend of ours was scuba diving off Malta when she and her buddy got into difficulties. A helicopter was sent out to them, and picked them up. Once they were safely inside, a crewmwmber asked: "Are you German?"

    Apparently it sounded as though they'd chuck her out if she said yes, although it was actually that as a Brit she got rescued for free, whereas they would have made a German pay ...
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,394
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good on them. If anyone needs to be located in an English-speaking, common-law, low-tax country inside the EU after Brexit, Malta is an excellent choice. Much better weather than Ireland.
    It's also covered in fucking rubbish and their national sport is shooting dogs.

    I had a hair raising run ashore on my Invincible med cruise. On the homeward leg Malta was known as the "PCOD" (P*ssy Cut Off Day). It was felt to be the last day on which could be pleasured by a feculent pro found on "The Gut" and still be in with a chance of getting cured by the doc before returning to home and hearth. Gib was cutting it a bit fine for the antibiotics to be fully effective. You don't hear about any of this on the "Armed Forces Day" bollocks.
    Lots of EU countries have problems with rubbish.

    Greece and Cyprus being other examples. And the French lean out of their shutters in the countryside at the weekend and basically try and shoot anything that flies overhead.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good on them. If anyone needs to be located in an English-speaking, common-law, low-tax country inside the EU after Brexit, Malta is an excellent choice. Much better weather than Ireland.
    It's also covered in fucking rubbish and their national sport is shooting dogs.

    I had a hair raising run ashore on my Invincible med cruise. On the homeward leg Malta was known as the "PCOD" (P*ssy Cut Off Day). It was felt to be the last day on which could be pleasured by a feculent pro found on "The Gut" and still be in with a chance of getting cured by the doc before returning to home and hearth. Gib was cutting it a bit fine for the antibiotics to be fully effective. You don't hear about any of this on the "Armed Forces Day" bollocks.
    A Malta anecdote:

    A friend of ours was scuba diving off Malta when she and her buddy got into difficulties. A helicopter was sent out to them, and picked them up. Once they were safely inside, a crewmwmber asked: "Are you German?"

    Apparently it sounded as though they'd chuck her out if she said yes, although it was actually that as a Brit she got rescued for free, whereas they would have made a German pay ...
    I think giving the whole fcking island the GC was one of the best gestures ever. Personal idea of his late Maj George VI, I believe.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited June 2018

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good on them. If anyone needs to be located in an English-speaking, common-law, low-tax country inside the EU after Brexit, Malta is an excellent choice. Much better weather than Ireland.
    It's also covered in fucking rubbish and their national sport is shooting dogs.

    I had a hair raising run ashore on my Invincible med cruise. On the homeward leg Malta was known as the "PCOD" (P*ssy Cut Off Day). It was felt to be the last day on which could be pleasured by a feculent pro found on "The Gut" and still be in with a chance of getting cured by the doc before returning to home and hearth. Gib was cutting it a bit fine for the antibiotics to be fully effective. You don't hear about any of this on the "Armed Forces Day" bollocks.
    Lots of EU countries have problems with rubbish.

    Greece and Cyprus being other examples. And the French lean out of their shutters in the countryside at the weekend and basically try and shoot anything that flies overhead.
    I really didn't note much rubbish when I went on holiday to Zanthe a couple of years back. Nor did I in Turkey in all honesty.
    The sheer volume of uncollected rubbish I saw in Tunisia however was absolubtely staggering. For all our handwringing (Yes I try to do my bit) over plastic use and so forth in this country, it IS Asia and Africa that have the really big problem with this.
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    Pulpstar said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good on them. If anyone needs to be located in an English-speaking, common-law, low-tax country inside the EU after Brexit, Malta is an excellent choice. Much better weather than Ireland.
    It's also covered in fucking rubbish and their national sport is shooting dogs.

    I had a hair raising run ashore on my Invincible med cruise. On the homeward leg Malta was known as the "PCOD" (P*ssy Cut Off Day). It was felt to be the last day on which could be pleasured by a feculent pro found on "The Gut" and still be in with a chance of getting cured by the doc before returning to home and hearth. Gib was cutting it a bit fine for the antibiotics to be fully effective. You don't hear about any of this on the "Armed Forces Day" bollocks.
    Lots of EU countries have problems with rubbish.

    Greece and Cyprus being other examples. And the French lean out of their shutters in the countryside at the weekend and basically try and shoot anything that flies overhead.
    I really didn't note much rubbish when I went on holiday to Zanthe a couple of years back. Nor did I in Turkey in all honesty.
    The sheer volume of uncollected rubbish I saw in Tunisia however was absolubtely staggering. For all our handwringing (Yes I try to do my bit) over plastic use and so forth in this country, it IS Asia and Africa that have the really big problem with this.
    Asia and Africa have a problem with collecting it, but there's no doubt that the Western World produces far more rubbish.
    https://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTURBANDEVELOPMENT/Resources/336387-1334852610766/Chap3.pdf
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,900
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good on them. If anyone needs to be located in an English-speaking, common-law, low-tax country inside the EU after Brexit, Malta is an excellent choice. Much better weather than Ireland.
    It's also covered in fucking rubbish and their national sport is shooting dogs.

    I had a hair raising run ashore on my Invincible med cruise. On the homeward leg Malta was known as the "PCOD" (P*ssy Cut Off Day). It was felt to be the last day on which could be pleasured by a feculent pro found on "The Gut" and still be in with a chance of getting cured by the doc before returning to home and hearth. Gib was cutting it a bit fine for the antibiotics to be fully effective. You don't hear about any of this on the "Armed Forces Day" bollocks.
    Genuine LOL, your military anecdotes are better than any I’ve heard from friends who served HM.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Made me chuckle (FYI, not real Phil Neville)

    https://twitter.com/FFizzer18/status/1012082320453627907
  • Options
    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,818

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just
    Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
    Yo.
    Perhaps you could provide some evidence of people actually being convicted of hate crimes associated with Brexit.

    And you know the reason I have doubts about them occurring is if there were such convictions then this site would have had endless numbers of pasted tweets about them.

    As to crops rotting in the fields, there's no evidence at all of it while the shops are filled with food and the number of agricultural workers is at a twenty year high.
    Four times since the referendum I’ve seen or experienced verbal attacks along the lines of ‘Fuck off home we voted Brexit’, most recently last month in Leeds from supporters of Tommy Robinson, directed towards a Polish chap.

    So they are happening.

    Unless they are physical or recorded there’s a low chance of conviction as it becomes he said/they said so they don’t get reported.
    To be honest, we've noticed it as well. One of my wife's closest friends is an Austrian married to an Australian and living here with their kids. They're now migrating to Australia, having experienced post-Brexit nastiness. Their kid has had a tough time at school for her background and they've had enough of her coming home in tears (and they've experienced it directly as well).
    Funny. This is something ardent Remainers tell “anecdotes” about all the time, but my wife, her friends and my international friends have never experienced or mentioned anything of the sort.

    They are all happy to be here. Some are applying for British passports, and that’s the only difference I’ve seen.
    Oh, right. I see. Your reaction is to implicitly call me a liar.
    I understand.
    That doesn't say much about yourself, you know.
    (As it happens, characterising me as an "ardent Remainer" is quite amusing, as well as ignorant)
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,004
    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good on them. If anyone needs to be located in an English-speaking, common-law, low-tax country inside the EU after Brexit, Malta is an excellent choice. Much better weather than Ireland.
    It's also covered in fucking rubbish and their national sport is shooting dogs.

    I had a hair raising run ashore on my Invincible med cruise. On the homeward leg Malta was known as the "PCOD" (P*ssy Cut Off Day). It was felt to be the last day on which could be pleasured by a feculent pro found on "The Gut" and still be in with a chance of getting cured by the doc before returning to home and hearth. Gib was cutting it a bit fine for the antibiotics to be fully effective. You don't hear about any of this on the "Armed Forces Day" bollocks.
    Genuine LOL, your military anecdotes are better than any I’ve heard from friends who served HM.
    The spinning of dits is core competency for FAA officers. One day I'll relate the tale of the CVW-11 Xmas/NY in Singapore that followed Enduring Freedom...
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited June 2018
    Pulpstar said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good on them. If anyone needs to be located in an English-speaking, common-law, low-tax country inside the EU after Brexit, Malta is an excellent choice. Much better weather than Ireland.
    It's also covered in fucking rubbish and their national sport is shooting dogs.

    I had a hair raising run ashore on my Invincible med cruise. On the homeward leg Malta was known as the "PCOD" (P*ssy Cut Off Day). It was felt to be the last day on which could be pleasured by a feculent pro found on "The Gut" and still be in with a chance of getting cured by the doc before returning to home and hearth. Gib was cutting it a bit fine for the antibiotics to be fully effective. You don't hear about any of this on the "Armed Forces Day" bollocks.
    Lots of EU countries have problems with rubbish.

    Greece and Cyprus being other examples. And the French lean out of their shutters in the countryside at the weekend and basically try and shoot anything that flies overhead.
    I really didn't note much rubbish when I went on holiday to Zanthe a couple of years back. Nor did I in Turkey in all honesty.
    The sheer volume of uncollected rubbish I saw in Tunisia however was absolubtely staggering. For all our handwringing (Yes I try to do my bit) over plastic use and so forth in this country, it IS Asia and Africa that have the really big problem with this.
    It was reported last year that just 10 rivers are responsible for 90 per cent of plastic in the ocean -- nothing to do with whether the Auchtermuchty McDonalds uses plastic straws.
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stemming-the-plastic-tide-10-rivers-contribute-most-of-the-plastic-in-the-oceans/

    ETA Two are in Africa (the Nile and the Niger) while the other eight are in Asia (the Ganges, Indus, Yellow, Yangtze, Haihe, Pearl, Mekong and Amur).
    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/nov/05/terrawatch-the-rivers-taking-plastic-to-the-oceans

    Perhaps our foreign aid budget should pay for recycling facilities in Africa if we are serious about curbing pollution. Such facilities would also employ locals and stimulate economies.
  • Options
    kingbongokingbongo Posts: 393

    Interesting feature on climate change in the podcast.I'm ditching gas central heating and switching to electricity from renewables,which I'm convinced will be cheaper in a few years' time, but these air/ground heat pumps are very interesting.Anyone using them or explored the use of them? Both systems appeal because of national security,not having to rely on Qatari gas and Saudi oil,or those pesky Russians.

    My brother-in-law is having his house built in West Cork right now and he will have an air source heat pump installed. He told me that the pace of development in them recently is very fast, so he's waiting until the last moment to choose a model to install. He will use his to partially heat his hot water too.

    Britain and Ireland don't have the cold temperatures in winter to require a ground source heat pump.
    I have three air source heat pumps here in Denmark - they are v good and much cheaper to install - combined with solar for hot water we do pretty well running cost wise, electric heating is getting a tax cut here as well soon (but still way more expensive than UK)

  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,314

    Pulpstar said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good on them. If anyone needs to be located in an English-speaking, common-law, low-tax country inside the EU after Brexit, Malta is an excellent choice. Much better weather than Ireland.
    It's also covered in fucking rubbish and their national sport is shooting dogs.

    I had a hair raising run ashore on my Invincible med cruise. On the homeward leg Malta was known as the "PCOD" (P*ssy Cut Off Day). It was felt to be the last day on which could be pleasured by a feculent pro found on "The Gut" and still be in with a chance of getting cured by the doc before returning to home and hearth. Gib was cutting it a bit fine for the antibiotics to be fully effective. You don't hear about any of this on the "Armed Forces Day" bollocks.
    Lots of EU countries have problems with rubbish.

    Greece and Cyprus being other examples. And the French lean out of their shutters in the countryside at the weekend and basically try and shoot anything that flies overhead.
    I really didn't note much rubbish when I went on holiday to Zanthe a couple of years back. Nor did I in Turkey in all honesty.
    The sheer volume of uncollected rubbish I saw in Tunisia however was absolubtely staggering. For all our handwringing (Yes I try to do my bit) over plastic use and so forth in this country, it IS Asia and Africa that have the really big problem with this.
    It was reported last year that just 10 rivers are responsible for 90 per cent of plastic in the ocean -- nothing to do with whether the Auchtermuchty McDonalds uses plastic straws.
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stemming-the-plastic-tide-10-rivers-contribute-most-of-the-plastic-in-the-oceans/

    ETA Two are in Africa (the Nile and the Niger) while the other eight are in Asia (the Ganges, Indus, Yellow, Yangtze, Haihe, Pearl, Mekong and Amur).
    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/nov/05/terrawatch-the-rivers-taking-plastic-to-the-oceans

    Perhaps our foreign aid budget should pay for recycling facilities in Africa if we are serious about curbing pollution. Such facilities would also employ locals and stimulate economies.
    Travelling regularly through mainland inland rural China albeit many years ago, there were literally mountains of rubbish all around and within living areas, villages, towns, rivers, you name it. I remember thinking at the time how could people tolerate it so close to where they were living but I suppose if your priority is to feed your family you will leave the litter collection to someone else.

    Perhaps it's all changed now.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited June 2018
    UK criticised over role in US rendition

    The UK tolerated "inexcusable" treatment of US detainees after the 9/11 attacks, MPs have found.

    The Intelligence and Security Committee (ISC) said it was "beyond doubt" the UK knew the US mistreated detainees.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-44640086
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,946
    Jonathan said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    There is no section of the population that respects Tony Blair.
    I'm afraid I'm not fleet enough of foot. For now the Leavers have moved on to their next hate target, the CBI.
    Seriously, disapproval of Tony Blair is not just confined to Leavers or Corbynites.
    He is more popular than populist Leavers and Corbynites like to think.
    According to the latest Yougov, (June 16th) 17% like Tony Blair, and 76% dislike him.
    17% is a lot more than "no section" and not at all bad for a retired politician, let alone one that gets the populists and the Corbynites ranting. Better than most hopefuls for next Tory leader.

    Give him a couple of months on the campaign stump and he could get back to the 35% he needed to win a majority.
    LOL.

    I'm not sure what is more hilarious; the idea that you can turn such a net unfavourable to 35%, or the idea that since the decline of UKIP and the LDs that 35% gets anywhere near a majority.

    I do applaud your one man attempt to return Blair to national prominence, though. It would be a gift for the Tories,
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,394
    edited June 2018

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just
    Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
    Yo.
    Perhaps you could provide some evidence of people actually being convicted of hate crimes associated with year high.
    Four times since the referendum I’ve seen or experienced verbal attacks along the lines of ‘Fuck off home we voted Brexit’, most recently last month in Leeds from supporters of Tommy Robinson, directed towards a Polish chap.

    So they are happening.

    Unless they are physical or recorded there’s a low chance of conviction as it becomes he said/they said so they don’t get reported.
    To be honest, we've noticed it as well. One of my wife's closest friends is an Austrian married to an Australian and living here with their kids. They're now migrating to Australia, having experienced post-Brexit nastiness. Their kid has had a tough time at school for her background and they've had enough of her coming home in tears (and they've experienced it directly as well).
    Funny. This is something ardent Remainers tell “anecdotes” about all the time, but my wife, her friends and my international friends have never experienced or mentioned anything of the sort.

    They are all happy to be here. Some are applying for British passports, and that’s the only difference I’ve seen.
    Oh, right. I see. Your reaction is to implicitly call me a liar.
    I understand.
    That doesn't say much about yourself, you know.
    (As it happens, characterising me as an "ardent Remainer" is quite amusing, as well as ignorant)
    And your posts don’t say much about you either.

    Your posts on Brexit are as intemperate as they are imbalanced.

    I have lots of European friends. None have ever experience anything of the sort, including my wife.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,314

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just
    Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
    Yo.
    Perhaps you could provide some evidence of people actually being convicted of hate crimes associated with year high.
    Four times since the referendum I’ve seen or experienced verbal attacks along the lines of ‘Fuck off home we voted Brexit’, most recently last month in Leeds from supporters of Tommy Robinson, directed towards a Polish chap.

    So they are happening.

    Unless they are physical or recorded there’s a low chance of conviction as it becomes he said/they said so they don’t get reported.
    To be honest, we've noticed it as well. One of my wife's closest friends is an Austrian married to an Australian and living here with their kids. They're now migrating to Australia, having experienced post-Brexit nastiness. Their kid has had a tough time at school for her background and they've had enough of her coming home in tears (and they've experienced it directly as well).
    Funny. This is something ardent Remainers tell “anecdotes” about all the time, but my wife, her friends and my international friends have never experienced or mentioned anything of the sort.

    They are all happy to be here. Some are applying for British passports, and that’s the only difference I’ve seen.
    Oh, right. I see. Your reaction is to implicitly call me a liar.
    I understand.
    That doesn't say much about yourself, you know.
    (As it happens, characterising me as an "ardent Remainer" is quite amusing, as well as ignorant)
    And your posts don’t say much about you either.

    Your posts on Brexit are as intemperate as they are imbalanced.

    I have lots of European friends. None have ever experience anything of the sort, including my wife.
    Some of your best friends are European? Good to hear.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Sandpit said:

    Good on them. If anyone needs to be located in an English-speaking, common-law, low-tax country inside the EU after Brexit, Malta is an excellent choice. Much better weather than Ireland.
    But the bastards shoot all our migrating birds. I mean, insane numbers, of every species. Malta is on the Verboten list.

    They also like duffing up anybody who opposes their "little bit of fun".....
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Four times since the referendum I’ve seen or experienced verbal attacks along the lines of ‘Fuck off home we voted Brexit’, most recently last month in Leeds from supporters of Tommy Robinson, directed towards a Polish chap.

    Pre-Brexit Tommy Robinson and his supporters were jolly nice chaps who wouldn't say a mean thing to anyone.

    Is that your proposition?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,487
    Absolutely NSFW or kids.

    If Lilo and Stitch were Scottish.

    https://youtu.be/bqTm3SCmnoE
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,394
    TOPPING said:

    So today Leavers are hating Tony Blair. Yesterday it was the BMA. It must be exhausting keeping all that negative energy pent up, ready to discharge on so many different subjects.

    For a group that like to lay claim to patriotism, there's precious little about Britain that they actually like.

    Coming from you on leavers hating ,you hating 17million people every day.
    Just
    Yet it was Remainers who have subsequently peddled lies including about attacks on immigrants, the City relocating to Frankfurt and the crops rotting in the fields.
    Yo.
    Perhaps you could provide some evidence of people actually being convicted of hate crimes associated with year high.
    Four times since the referendum I’ve seen or experienced verbal attacks along the lines of ‘Fuck off home we voted Brexit’, most recently last month in Leeds from supporters of Tommy Robinson, directed towards a Polish chap.

    So they are happening.

    Unless they are physical or recorded there’s a low chance of conviction as it becomes he said/they said so they don’t get reported.
    ell).
    Funny. This is something ardent Remainers tell “anecdotes” about all the time, but my wife, her friends and my international friends have never experienced or mentioned anything of the sort.

    They are all happy to be here. Some are applying for British passports, and that’s the only difference I’ve seen.
    Oh, right. I see. Your reaction is to implicitly call me a liar.
    I understand.
    That doesn't say much about yourself, you know.
    (As it happens, characterising me as an "ardent Remainer" is quite amusing, as well as ignorant)
    And your posts don’t say much about you either.

    Your posts on Brexit are as intemperate as they are imbalanced.

    I have lots of European friends. None have ever experience anything of the sort, including my wife.
    Some of your best friends are European? Good to hear.
    Yes. I went to an international school, married a European, work with many Europeans and am proud to call many my friends.

    I’m afraid I can’t help you with your prejudices, though.
This discussion has been closed.