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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why the threat of a confidence vote on TMay has far less poten

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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited April 2018
    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/politicshome/status/988388265463033856

    Do labour not do any vetting of candidates these days? Or it is that sticking likes Alex jones and dislikes the Jews on the application form get you fast tracked!
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    "Labour figures reacted with horror after Ms Richards - who claims to have worked previously for shadow equalities minister Dawn Butler - was chosen to fight the Tory-held marginal seat of Worcester at the next election."

    I wonder what it was about Ms Butler which attracted her....
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,324
    Scott_P said:
    'She has also been banned from bringing court actions without the permission of a judge'

    Presumably this means she's on the vexatious litigants list.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061
    One of my simple party tracks for kids is to give them an unpeeled banana to eat, and when they peel it, it is already sliced. It's an oldie, but really gives them a surprise. I tell them it's a special - and very expensive - variety.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164
    Scott_P said:
    Congratulations to the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    Scott_P said:
    I did flag up yesterday that it was particularly brave of Labour to have selected her.

    Or the whole selection process for marginal seats has gone to rat-shit under Corbyn. One or the other.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292

    Scott_P said:
    I did flag up yesterday that it was particularly brave of Labour to have selected her.

    Or the whole selection process for marginal seats has gone to rat-shit under Corbyn. One or the other.
    Perhaps they are selecting the candidates that match their values? I mean the leader spent weeks happily emboldening conspiracy theories about Russian involvement in Salisbury nerve agent attack and Assad chemical attack.
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    JohnO said:

    If hardliner Brexit Tories ensure the fall of the government and make Corbyn PM they'll be marked for eternity for their betrayal like Cain, Judas, and Mark Reckless.

    These traitors need to be forced out of the Tory party.

    By the time you and Max have finished rooting out the diverse infidels, there won’t be a Tory party (on whose behalf some of us in the poor bloody infantry - county council platoon - are out most days for May 3rd). Harrumph.
    I know, I was extracting the Michael.

    But Theresa May is fortunate that especially in light of the events in Salisbury no Tory MP will do anything that will make Jeremy Corbyn Prime Minister.

    I shall be out trying to get the vote out in Sheffield on May the 3rd. We're going to South Yorkshire blue in the near future.

    Sadly my plans to be Yorkshire's first directly elected Dictator Mayor are on hold.

    Being the head of the YMCA* would have been fun.

    *Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Not strange. Lots of families name their children after the place they were conceived.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292

    Not strange. Lots of families name their children after the place they were conceived.
    I thought only the plebs did that...
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited April 2018
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,058

    Not strange. Lots of families name their children after the place they were conceived.
    I thought only the plebs did that...
    I had a girl-friend once who used to talk about Seaburn Sand- Dunes Smith, in respect of her immediate ex. And (name of my student lodgings) Cole
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Anyone know how much progress the disgraced Liam Fox has made on securing new trade deals for the UK?

    If he looks like delivering the square root of bugger all then remaining in the customs union maybe the only option for the UK.

    I thought the pens were poised to sign ones with Australia, New Zealand and Ghana.
    How much trade do with those three countries compared to how much we do with the rest of the EU?
    It's like no-one in politics even owns a map of the world. Australia's bloody miles away. We need more geographers ... oh, hold on.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787

    In the long term, the biggest news of the day might well be Martin Lewis's defamation suit against Facebook. If he succeeds, it could change a lot of online life.

    I can well understand why he would be incredibly hacked off about this.

    It's grimly amusing that the Guardian & SkyNews pieces on this came complete with the same fake ads.
    https://twitter.com/Eloi_Casali/status/988302859958710273
    The less said about the targeted ads I receive the better.
    What ever happened to that poster who got on his high horse and lectured OGH on how it was completely inappropriate for his site to carry ads for Romanian mail-order brides?
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    VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,438
    New English patron saint.

    Saint King Charles the Martyr. An Anglican Saint.

    Was he Scottish though?
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,058
    edited April 2018

    New English patron saint.

    Saint King Charles the Martyr. An Anglican Saint.

    Was he Scottish though?

    Is there a St Oliver. Although I’m quite sure Puritans don’t have specific saints, all being so.

    Edit; Apparently there’s a recent Catholic, possibly N Ireland ,one; St Oliver (Plunkett).
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713

    Scott_P said:
    I did flag up yesterday that it was particularly brave of Labour to have selected her.

    Or the whole selection process for marginal seats has gone to rat-shit under Corbyn. One or the other.
    The media shouldn't have said anything. It would have been much more fun for her to have remained,.
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    In the long term, the biggest news of the day might well be Martin Lewis's defamation suit against Facebook. If he succeeds, it could change a lot of online life.

    I can well understand why he would be incredibly hacked off about this.

    It's grimly amusing that the Guardian & SkyNews pieces on this came complete with the same fake ads.
    https://twitter.com/Eloi_Casali/status/988302859958710273
    The less said about the targeted ads I receive the better.
    What ever happened to that poster who got on his high horse and lectured OGH on how it was completely inappropriate for his site to carry ads for Romanian mail-order brides?
    Left in embarrassment after Robert pointed out the ads you see are based on your own search history.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429
    edited April 2018

    Scott_P said:
    I did flag up yesterday that it was particularly brave of Labour to have selected her.

    Or the whole selection process for marginal seats has gone to rat-shit under Corbyn. One or the other.
    Reading some of her statements, she genuinely appears to need help.

    " My disclosures to date regarding state-sponsored organised crime have the potential to trigger a major national public scandal"

    "members of my own political party have indeed acted unlawfully against me in this respect having colluded in the facilitation of this type of mistreatment and manipulation, and in the process undermining my political, professional and personal life"

    "the harassment has escalated including increased surveillance conducted via electronic communications, surface mail, mobile phone, landline telephone, human surveillace and most worryingly home intrusions. Electrical tampering has made my home and car inhospitable environments having received second degree burns as a result of static electrical emissions. There have also been frequent electrical surges and outages, as well as boiler and circuitry issues generating emissions that have been measured on professional monitoring equipment and deemed severely detrimental to my health and which are potentially life threatening."


    As Diane Abbott said to the judge:"To be honest with you, Ms. Richards has become an obsessive."

    Like Jared O'Mara, it appears that there are some serious deficiencies in Labour's parliamentary selection process.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,058

    In the long term, the biggest news of the day might well be Martin Lewis's defamation suit against Facebook. If he succeeds, it could change a lot of online life.

    I can well understand why he would be incredibly hacked off about this.

    It's grimly amusing that the Guardian & SkyNews pieces on this came complete with the same fake ads.
    https://twitter.com/Eloi_Casali/status/988302859958710273
    The less said about the targeted ads I receive the better.
    What ever happened to that poster who got on his high horse and lectured OGH on how it was completely inappropriate for his site to carry ads for Romanian mail-order brides?
    When was that, and were they value for money? Does anyone know?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,058
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    I did flag up yesterday that it was particularly brave of Labour to have selected her.

    Or the whole selection process for marginal seats has gone to rat-shit under Corbyn. One or the other.
    Reading some of her statements, she genuinely appears to need help.

    " My disclosures to date regarding state-sponsored organised crime have the potential to trigger a major national public scandal"

    "members of my own political party have indeed acted unlawfully against me in this respect having colluded in the facilitation of this type of mistreatment and manipulation, and in the process undermining my political, professional and personal life"

    "the harassment has escalated including increased surveillance conducted via electronic communications, surface mail, mobile phone, landline telephone, human surveillace and most worryingly home intrusions. Electrical tampering has made my home and car inhospitable environments having received second degree burns as a result of static electrical emissions. There have also been frequent electrical surges and outages, as well as boiler and circuitry issues generating emissions that have been measured on professional monitoring equipment and deemed severely detrimental to my health and which are potentially life threatening."

    Her cat hasn’t been microchipped with a transmitter though.
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    IanB2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    I did flag up yesterday that it was particularly brave of Labour to have selected her.

    Or the whole selection process for marginal seats has gone to rat-shit under Corbyn. One or the other.
    Reading some of her statements, she genuinely appears to need help.

    " My disclosures to date regarding state-sponsored organised crime have the potential to trigger a major national public scandal"

    "members of my own political party have indeed acted unlawfully against me in this respect having colluded in the facilitation of this type of mistreatment and manipulation, and in the process undermining my political, professional and personal life"

    "the harassment has escalated including increased surveillance conducted via electronic communications, surface mail, mobile phone, landline telephone, human surveillace and most worryingly home intrusions. Electrical tampering has made my home and car inhospitable environments having received second degree burns as a result of static electrical emissions. There have also been frequent electrical surges and outages, as well as boiler and circuitry issues generating emissions that have been measured on professional monitoring equipment and deemed severely detrimental to my health and which are potentially life threatening."

    She’s the voter who after you canvass you decide never to target again.

    I remember one voter who was convinced we were all controlled by the Pope and aliens.

    That Jesus was an alien.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    Seems to be a certain individual missing...
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,058

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    I did flag up yesterday that it was particularly brave of Labour to have selected her.

    Or the whole selection process for marginal seats has gone to rat-shit under Corbyn. One or the other.
    Reading some of her statements, she genuinely appears to need help.

    " My disclosures to date regarding state-sponsored organised crime have the potential to trigger a major national public scandal"

    "members of my own political party have indeed acted unlawfully against me in this respect having colluded in the facilitation of this type of mistreatment and manipulation, and in the process undermining my political, professional and personal life"

    "the harassment has escalated including increased surveillance conducted via electronic communications, surface mail, mobile phone, landline telephone, human surveillace and most worryingly home intrusions. Electrical tampering has made my home and car inhospitable environments having received second degree burns as a result of static electrical emissions. There have also been frequent electrical surges and outages, as well as boiler and circuitry issues generating emissions that have been measured on professional monitoring equipment and deemed severely detrimental to my health and which are potentially life threatening."

    She’s the voter who after you canvass you decide never to target again.

    I remember one voter who was convinced we were all controlled by the Pope and aliens.

    That Jesus was an alien.
    Well, if you will go canvassing in Yorkshire.......
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787

    In the long term, the biggest news of the day might well be Martin Lewis's defamation suit against Facebook. If he succeeds, it could change a lot of online life.

    I can well understand why he would be incredibly hacked off about this.

    It's grimly amusing that the Guardian & SkyNews pieces on this came complete with the same fake ads.
    https://twitter.com/Eloi_Casali/status/988302859958710273
    The less said about the targeted ads I receive the better.
    What ever happened to that poster who got on his high horse and lectured OGH on how it was completely inappropriate for his site to carry ads for Romanian mail-order brides?
    Left in embarrassment after Robert pointed out the ads you see are based on your own search history.
    Facebook is worse. It anticipates. I used to get ads for adult incontinence products (mercifully not (yet?) required) - having just turned 60 I'm now getting Funeral Insurance emails. As my granny said 'I'm no bothered, they'll bury me because of the smell..."
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146

    Anyone know how much progress the disgraced Liam Fox has made on securing new trade deals for the UK?

    If he looks like delivering the square root of bugger all then remaining in the customs union maybe the only option for the UK.

    I thought the pens were poised to sign ones with Australia, New Zealand and Ghana.
    How much trade do with those three countries compared to how much we do with the rest of the EU?
    It's like no-one in politics even owns a map of the world. Australia's bloody miles away. We need more geographers ... oh, hold on.
    It's like they need to look ever farther afield to find the last redoubt keeping the flame of empire alive. The British people have let them down with their decadent European ways but somewhere over the ocean, the true spirit of England lives on...
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001

    In the long term, the biggest news of the day might well be Martin Lewis's defamation suit against Facebook. If he succeeds, it could change a lot of online life.

    I can well understand why he would be incredibly hacked off about this.

    It's grimly amusing that the Guardian & SkyNews pieces on this came complete with the same fake ads.
    https://twitter.com/Eloi_Casali/status/988302859958710273
    The less said about the targeted ads I receive the better.
    What ever happened to that poster who got on his high horse and lectured OGH on how it was completely inappropriate for his site to carry ads for Romanian mail-order brides?
    Left in embarrassment after Robert pointed out the ads you see are based on your own search history.
    I don't have any ads up top at the moment, and am not using an ad-blocker for the site.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787

    Seems to be a certain individual missing...
    Maybe why the missus looks genuinely at ease....
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,205

    Seems to be a certain individual missing...
    Taking the photo?
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429
    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Scott_P said:

    We really are going around in circles. Which may be May's basic game plan.

    It’s time for May to stop marching in circles

    Stalling is her preferred tactic but the prime minister must go on the attack before her enemies have her surrounded


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/it-s-time-for-may-to-stop-marching-in-circles-x3kd3cgt6
    I don't know about that. Stalling until the reality of the situation forces the loons to compromise remains a pretty good plan.
    ...but the loons don't want to compromise! Redwood, IDS, Rees-Mogg and Co. will only accept 'fire and brimstone ' Brexit.
    I'd hope they become increasingly marginalised. I suppose you're always going to have a number of ultras, but if their hangers-on can be peeled away and reintroduced to sanity then their influence will evaporate.
    Deep down they will want to be marginalised, for fear of losing their lifetime obsession with moaning about the EU.
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    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    edited April 2018

    New English patron saint.

    Saint King Charles the Martyr. An Anglican Saint.

    Was he Scottish though?

    He was born in Scotland. Unfortunately he couldn't stand the place and spent as little time there as possible, which is really where all the trouble started.

    Edit: hang on, shouldn't you be rooting for Saint Alban?
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,029

    If hardliner Brexit Tories ensure the fall of the government and make Corbyn PM they'll be marked for eternity for their betrayal like Cain, Judas, and Mark Reckless.

    These traitors need to be forced out of the Tory party.

    I think they are fucking stupid enough to think a Corbyn government will go down in flames in short order and a desperate electorate will then opt for generation of blue in tooth and claw Tory rule.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146

    Seems to be a certain individual missing...
    Maybe why the missus looks genuinely at ease....
    https://twitter.com/ThePoke/status/988034181979504640
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    tlg86 said:

    Seems to be a certain individual missing...
    Taking the photo?
    That would be a selfie....
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    Pulpstar said:

    In the long term, the biggest news of the day might well be Martin Lewis's defamation suit against Facebook. If he succeeds, it could change a lot of online life.

    I can well understand why he would be incredibly hacked off about this.

    It's grimly amusing that the Guardian & SkyNews pieces on this came complete with the same fake ads.
    https://twitter.com/Eloi_Casali/status/988302859958710273
    The less said about the targeted ads I receive the better.
    What ever happened to that poster who got on his high horse and lectured OGH on how it was completely inappropriate for his site to carry ads for Romanian mail-order brides?
    Left in embarrassment after Robert pointed out the ads you see are based on your own search history.
    I don't have any ads up top at the moment, and am not using an ad-blocker for the site.
    I'm getting KLM ads, possibly because I printed a friends Ryanair boarding pass out on Friday.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,261
    edited April 2018

    New English patron saint.

    Saint King Charles the Martyr. An Anglican Saint.

    Was he Scottish though?

    Is there a St Oliver. Although I’m quite sure Puritans don’t have specific saints, all being so.

    Edit; Apparently there’s a recent Catholic, possibly N Ireland ,one; St Oliver (Plunkett).
    It would be an admirable act of reconciliation for England to make a Catholic bishop that they'd hung, drawn and quartered into their patron saint.

    It would also provide the not inconsiderable bonus of sending the DUP mental(er).
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    sarissasarissa Posts: 1,800

    rcs1000 said:

    OK.

    Question for PBers.

    My wife is off for the first two and half weeks of the summer holidays. (This is LA, so this is from about the 6th of June.)

    This leaves me with 16 days to entertain an 8 and a 10 year old.

    I'm not going to stay home, because I'd go mad, so am going to bundle them onto a plane and do something. Specifically something awesome that they'll love. I don't mind jumping on a plane for 12 hours if I have to, and I have two million airmiles, so can afford to go practically anywhere.

    Suggestions?

    Queenstown in the south island of New Zealand. Spectacular landscapes and midwinter snow
    Costa Rica - live volcanoes(though better in Nicaragua) and great scenery, jungle adventures like ziplining, wildlife tours etc, great beaches/ snorkelling and it's even safe enough for adventurous Americans. Go via Panama and see the canal as well.
  • Options

    In the long term, the biggest news of the day might well be Martin Lewis's defamation suit against Facebook. If he succeeds, it could change a lot of online life.

    I can well understand why he would be incredibly hacked off about this.

    It's grimly amusing that the Guardian & SkyNews pieces on this came complete with the same fake ads.
    https://twitter.com/Eloi_Casali/status/988302859958710273
    The less said about the targeted ads I receive the better.
    What ever happened to that poster who got on his high horse and lectured OGH on how it was completely inappropriate for his site to carry ads for Romanian mail-order brides?
    Left in embarrassment after Robert pointed out the ads you see are based on your own search history.
    Facebook is worse. It anticipates. I used to get ads for adult incontinence products (mercifully not (yet?) required) - having just turned 60 I'm now getting Funeral Insurance emails. As my granny said 'I'm no bothered, they'll bury me because of the smell..."
    When I got my parents iPads and iPhones I let them use my iTunes and YouTube account

    Basically their search histories would appear on my devices and vice versa.

    Thank God Apple set up family sharing accounts instead so that problem ended.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,880

    Pulpstar said:

    In the long term, the biggest news of the day might well be Martin Lewis's defamation suit against Facebook. If he succeeds, it could change a lot of online life.

    I can well understand why he would be incredibly hacked off about this.

    It's grimly amusing that the Guardian & SkyNews pieces on this came complete with the same fake ads.
    https://twitter.com/Eloi_Casali/status/988302859958710273
    The less said about the targeted ads I receive the better.
    What ever happened to that poster who got on his high horse and lectured OGH on how it was completely inappropriate for his site to carry ads for Romanian mail-order brides?
    Left in embarrassment after Robert pointed out the ads you see are based on your own search history.
    I don't have any ads up top at the moment, and am not using an ad-blocker for the site.
    I'm getting KLM ads, possibly because I printed a friends Ryanair boarding pass out on Friday.
    I’m getting mortgages (I have a mortgage) and beds (ditto).

    Perhaps Mrs Walker is getting ready to throw me out, and the interweb already knows...
  • Options

    In the long term, the biggest news of the day might well be Martin Lewis's defamation suit against Facebook. If he succeeds, it could change a lot of online life.

    I can well understand why he would be incredibly hacked off about this.

    It's grimly amusing that the Guardian & SkyNews pieces on this came complete with the same fake ads.
    https://twitter.com/Eloi_Casali/status/988302859958710273
    The less said about the targeted ads I receive the better.
    What ever happened to that poster who got on his high horse and lectured OGH on how it was completely inappropriate for his site to carry ads for Romanian mail-order brides?
    Left in embarrassment after Robert pointed out the ads you see are based on your own search history.
    Facebook is worse. It anticipates. I used to get ads for adult incontinence products (mercifully not (yet?) required) - having just turned 60 I'm now getting Funeral Insurance emails. As my granny said 'I'm no bothered, they'll bury me because of the smell..."
    When I got my parents iPads and iPhones I let them use my iTunes and YouTube account

    Basically their search histories would appear on my devices and vice versa.

    Thank God Apple set up family sharing accounts instead so that problem ended.
    It must have driven your folks mad with all the suggestions of AV related videos.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,058
    edited April 2018
    'Clean my Mac’ is what I’m being urged to do. Wife’s been grumbling about the dirty screen, but how does OGH’s website know it needs it?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144

    Scott_P said:
    I did flag up yesterday that it was particularly brave of Labour to have selected her.

    Or the whole selection process for marginal seats has gone to rat-shit under Corbyn. One or the other.
    The media shouldn't have said anything. It would have been much more fun for her to have remained,.
    I suspect the WTF????? briefing from within the local Labour Party reached levels that couldn't be ignored. To be beaten by a better candidate is one thing. But here....
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    Jeremy Corbyn has been forced to unfollow Twitter accounts that liken Israel to the Nazis as Labour continues to struggle with what one senior figure admitted was “sickening” antisemitism in the party.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/corbyn-cleans-up-his-twitter-feed-after-fresh-antisemitic-link-fwqgxdwzr
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    PaulyPauly Posts: 897

    If hardliner Brexit Tories ensure the fall of the government and make Corbyn PM they'll be marked for eternity for their betrayal like Cain, Judas, and Mark Reckless.

    These traitors need to be forced out of the Tory party.

    If May makes the customs union votes a confidence matter, surely it will be the europhiles voting in the direction of a Corbyn PM? Also, by using the language of treachery you demean yourself and our party.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    Merkel has been inspired by the member of the British public who fist-bumped a robot in Salisbury to do likewise.
    https://twitter.com/pbergsen/status/988401392829239296
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    John Gray in this week's Sunday Times Magazine: "Human beings never learn and never evolve"
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    I did flag up yesterday that it was particularly brave of Labour to have selected her.

    Or the whole selection process for marginal seats has gone to rat-shit under Corbyn. One or the other.
    Reading some of her statements, she genuinely appears to need help.

    " My disclosures to date regarding state-sponsored organised crime have the potential to trigger a major national public scandal"

    "members of my own political party have indeed acted unlawfully against me in this respect having colluded in the facilitation of this type of mistreatment and manipulation, and in the process undermining my political, professional and personal life"

    "the harassment has escalated including increased surveillance conducted via electronic communications, surface mail, mobile phone, landline telephone, human surveillace and most worryingly home intrusions. Electrical tampering has made my home and car inhospitable environments having received second degree burns as a result of static electrical emissions. There have also been frequent electrical surges and outages, as well as boiler and circuitry issues generating emissions that have been measured on professional monitoring equipment and deemed severely detrimental to my health and which are potentially life threatening."

    She’s the voter who after you canvass you decide never to target again.

    I remember one voter who was convinced we were all controlled by the Pope and aliens.

    That Jesus was an alien.
    One of my first casework visits was to a guy in a semi-detached house who had painted various heraldic shields and other symbols on his front door and garden gate. He wanted help convincing the authorities that his house was a monastic order and hence should be made exempt from council tax. Which was actually quite rational, if rather a long shot. However he then went on to claim that his brother had already been murdered by the secret service and his life was in danger.... etc.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,790
    edited April 2018

    Mr. 43, Edward I's dickishness in his decision-making and elderly lack of vigour cost him in Scotland. That said, he could've won had he simply made smarter choices. Not rewarding the nobles (with land) who were risking life and limb cost him a lot.

    His son being pretty inept was also helpful to the Scots.

    This was the dilemma of the invading English king. Edward III had the same problem and Henry V had a variation on this with the ransom for James I. Do you reward your own nobles who are reliable but ineffective against the combined opposition of Scottish society or do you try to co-opt the native nobility, who are effective but unreliable? One grant of land is at the expense of the other. You can't do both. Whenever things need sorting out, Scotland has always been good at getting informal working groups to rally round, consisting of younger sons of the nobility and bishops and later lawyers and business people. I guess that's why Scotland has never effectively been occupied long term, unlike Ireland or Wales, with the exception of Cromwell.
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    notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Dura_Ace said:

    If hardliner Brexit Tories ensure the fall of the government and make Corbyn PM they'll be marked for eternity for their betrayal like Cain, Judas, and Mark Reckless.

    These traitors need to be forced out of the Tory party.

    I think they are fucking stupid enough to think a Corbyn government will go down in flames in short order and a desperate electorate will then opt for generation of blue in tooth and claw Tory rule.
    It *will* run out of money, Labour Governments always do. But to just expect the above would be ridiculous. I think they possibly thought the same with Blair.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,618
    Any markets for names?
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    VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,438

    New English patron saint.

    Saint King Charles the Martyr. An Anglican Saint.

    Was he Scottish though?

    He was born in Scotland. Unfortunately he couldn't stand the place and spent as little time there as possible, which is really where all the trouble started.

    Edit: hang on, shouldn't you be rooting for Saint Alban?
    Absolutely. Trying to shoot down the opposition.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,790
    @Slackbladder Seems to be a certain individual missing...

    It's like the quiz: What do these people have in common?

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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    FF43 said:

    @Slackbladder Seems to be a certain individual missing...

    It's like the quiz: What do these people have in common?

    They are all millionaires? They have a different dinner for the billionaires...
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    MaxPB said:

    Any markets for names?

    I'll give you 10/1 on "Derek"
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
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    Scott_P said:
    Please let it be Prince Albert
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,790
    edited April 2018
    GIN1138 said:

    I would say the majority in the Commons wants to stay in "A" customs union rather than "THE" customs union.

    Somewhere between "the" and "a" is where this will end up I suspect.

    A customs "arrangement" is what TM seem's to be aiming for which is the compromise between "THE" "A" and "NO"

    These are the WTO definitions of "free trade agreement" and "customs union". They have defined meaning in terms of treaties and WTO commitments and is all we need to know. "customs arrangements" and "the/a customs unions" are terms designed to confuse and have no meaning:

    (a) A customs union shall be understood to mean the substitution of a single customs territory for two or more customs territories, so that

    (i) duties and other restrictive regulations of commerce (except, blah) are eliminated with respect to substantially all the trade between the constituent territories of the union or at least with respect to substantially all the trade in products originating in such territories, and,

    (ii) ... substantially the same duties and other regulations of commerce are applied by each of the members of the union to the trade of territories not included in the union;

    (b) A free-trade area shall be understood to mean a group of two or more customs territories in which the duties and other restrictive regulations of commerce (except blah) are eliminated on substantially all the trade between the constituent territories in products originating in such territories.


    So the UK will have a specific WTO-endorsed customs union with the EU that is "substantially" the same (and possibly exactly the same) as the one it already has as a EU member.

    https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/region_e/region_art24_e.htm
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    Scott_P said:

    MaxPB said:

    Any markets for names?

    twitter.com/LadsAlex/status/988353045045153793
    No Bob? A shame....
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061
    Off-topic:

    A slightly odd question for PB's brains trust:

    How can we be sure that some dinosaurs did not develop higher intelligence, or even societies?
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146

    Scott_P said:
    Please let it be Prince Albert
    Prince Emmanuel?
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,967

    Scott_P said:
    Please let it be Prince Albert
    I prefer something more traditional like Wiglaf, or Isangrim.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Off-topic:

    A slightly odd question for PB's brains trust:

    How can we be sure that some dinosaurs did not develop higher intelligence, or even societies?

    Funnily enough, this was the subject of a recent article:

    https://www.sciencealert.com/this-is-how-astronomers-would-detect-an-ancient-industrial-civilization-on-earth-if-it-existed
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Off-topic:

    A slightly odd question for PB's brains trust:

    How can we be sure that some dinosaurs did not develop higher intelligence, or even societies?

    Discussed recently on one of my fave blogs

    https://www.centauri-dreams.org/2018/04/18/civilization-before-homo-sapiens/
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,014

    Off-topic:

    A slightly odd question for PB's brains trust:

    How can we be sure that some dinosaurs did not develop higher intelligence, or even societies?

    No evidence at all of tool use. Whilst the record is scant we would probably have found something.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001

    Off-topic:

    A slightly odd question for PB's brains trust:

    How can we be sure that some dinosaurs did not develop higher intelligence, or even societies?

    The average pigeon doesn't strike me as particularly intelligent. Non-avian dinosaurs did however rule the earth for a staggeringly long period of time, we'll be doing well to match their 177 million year rule.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,014
    FF43 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I would say the majority in the Commons wants to stay in "A" customs union rather than "THE" customs union.

    Somewhere between "the" and "a" is where this will end up I suspect.

    A customs "arrangement" is what TM seem's to be aiming for which is the compromise between "THE" "A" and "NO"

    These are the WTO definitions of "free trade agreement" and "customs union". They have defined meaning in terms of treaties and WTO commitments and is all we need to know. "customs arrangements" and "the/a customs unions" are terms designed to confuse and have no meaning:

    (a) A customs union shall be understood to mean the substitution of a single customs territory for two or more customs territories, so that

    (i) duties and other restrictive regulations of commerce (except, blah) are eliminated with respect to substantially all the trade between the constituent territories of the union or at least with respect to substantially all the trade in products originating in such territories, and,

    (ii) ... substantially the same duties and other regulations of commerce are applied by each of the members of the union to the trade of territories not included in the union;

    (b) A free-trade area shall be understood to mean a group of two or more customs territories in which the duties and other restrictive regulations of commerce (except blah) are eliminated on substantially all the trade between the constituent territories in products originating in such territories.


    So the UK will have a specific WTO-endorsed customs union with the EU that is "substantially" the same (and possibly exactly the same) as the one it already has as a EU member.

    https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/region_e/region_art24_e.htm
    Except as Turkey shows us it cannot be the same. The Turkey CU means that 3rd party country goods can enter Turkey tariff free is the EU has a free trade deal with that country but Turkish goods do not have the same benefits on reverse. It is not a clever situation to get into.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,326

    Seems to be a certain individual missing...
    ....Al Gore? Did they all win the popular vote in a Presidential Election? I am guessing Gore couldn't make it, so he sent his Eastern European housekeeper (far right) instead.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Off-topic:

    A slightly odd question for PB's brains trust:

    How can we be sure that some dinosaurs did not develop higher intelligence, or even societies?

    No evidence at all of tool use. Whilst the record is scant we would probably have found something.
    60 m years is a long time for evidence of anything to survive. With us, the giveaway will probably be the plastic microbeads from our cosmetics.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Off-topic:

    A slightly odd question for PB's brains trust:

    How can we be sure that some dinosaurs did not develop higher intelligence, or even societies?

    No evidence at all of tool use. Whilst the record is scant we would probably have found something.
    60 m years is a long time for evidence of anything to survive. With us, the giveaway will probably be the plastic microbeads from our cosmetics.
    They could have left the planet altogether and tidied up after themselves. But that is conspiracy theory territory...
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,005
    edited April 2018
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mr. Jessop, minor tool use, as per apes with sticks or ravens likewise, might be possible.

    Edited extra bit: how long did it take for George and Charlotte to be named?
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Looks like TSE and Klopp agree on Brexit:

    https://twitter.com/paul__johnson/status/988387491580440576
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061
    Thanks Ishmael and Alastair. That's exactly the sort of thing I was looking for.

    The topic came up as a throwaway line on a space podcast I was listening to, and it kept me up a while last night thinking. I'm currently reading Elizabeth Tasker's excellent 'The Planet Factory' about Exoplanets, and I've read books in the past about how, over millions of years, much of the planet's crust gets chewed up and recycled.

    I found the question oddly engaging - and the only long-lasting sign of humans I could think of was radioactivity. But we were an intelligent species before we mastered radioactivity, so that pre-nuclear age would not necessarily show.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061

    Off-topic:

    A slightly odd question for PB's brains trust:

    How can we be sure that some dinosaurs did not develop higher intelligence, or even societies?

    No evidence at all of tool use. Whilst the record is scant we would probably have found something.
    Thanks. But what signs of tool use would we be looking for, and which are not open to misinterpretation?
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Pulpstar said:

    Off-topic:

    A slightly odd question for PB's brains trust:

    How can we be sure that some dinosaurs did not develop higher intelligence, or even societies?

    The average pigeon doesn't strike me as particularly intelligent. Non-avian dinosaurs did however rule the earth for a staggeringly long period of time, we'll be doing well to match their 177 million year rule.
    B.F.Skinner taught pigeons to play wiff-waff and steer guided missiles (genuinely).
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    Perhaps the dinosaurs fled to another planet and then nuked Earth from orbit?
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,014
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Off-topic:

    A slightly odd question for PB's brains trust:

    How can we be sure that some dinosaurs did not develop higher intelligence, or even societies?

    No evidence at all of tool use. Whilst the record is scant we would probably have found something.
    60 m years is a long time for evidence of anything to survive. With us, the giveaway will probably be the plastic microbeads from our cosmetics.
    We have evdence of tool use amongst primates from 3.4 million years ago. Once you get to that stage in the fossilisation process it doesn't really matter if it is 3.4 or 34 or 134 million. If they used tools then we would find evidence if it. Especially given we find nests, eggs and feathers.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    Off-topic:

    A slightly odd question for PB's brains trust:

    How can we be sure that some dinosaurs did not develop higher intelligence?

    Read one of Jeremy Corbyn's speeches.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292

    Off-topic:

    A slightly odd question for PB's brains trust:

    How can we be sure that some dinosaurs did not develop higher intelligence?

    Read one of Jeremy Corbyn's speeches.
    He said HIGHER intelligence...not lower.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,014
    GIN1138 said:

    If hardliner Brexit Tories ensure the fall of the government and make Corbyn PM they'll be marked for eternity for their betrayal like Cain, Judas, and Mark Reckless.

    These traitors need to be forced out of the Tory party.

    The same argument could be applied to "hardliner" Remainers no?

    In fact hasn't Hezza already mused that a Corbyn government would be a price worth paying for overturning the referendum and staying in the EU?

    As far as I'm aware no Brexiteer has gone that far yet...
    Yep. Heseltine would certainly qualify as one of TSE's traitors.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,227

    Off-topic:

    A slightly odd question for PB's brains trust:

    How can we be sure that some dinosaurs did not develop higher intelligence, or even societies?

    No evidence at all of tool use. Whilst the record is scant we would probably have found something.
    Thanks. But what signs of tool use would we be looking for, and which are not open to misinterpretation?
    A fork?
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,227

    Seems to be a certain individual missing...
    ....Al Gore? Did they all win the popular vote in a Presidential Election? I am guessing Gore couldn't make it, so he sent his Eastern European housekeeper (far right) instead.
    How the hell does Melania - or any woman, for that matter - walk in those heels? She's basically walking on tiptoes. Must be excruciating......
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Off-topic:

    A slightly odd question for PB's brains trust:

    How can we be sure that some dinosaurs did not develop higher intelligence, or even societies?

    No evidence at all of tool use. Whilst the record is scant we would probably have found something.
    60 m years is a long time for evidence of anything to survive. With us, the giveaway will probably be the plastic microbeads from our cosmetics.
    We have evdence of tool use amongst primates from 3.4 million years ago. Once you get to that stage in the fossilisation process it doesn't really matter if it is 3.4 or 34 or 134 million. If they used tools then we would find evidence if it. Especially given we find nests, eggs and feathers.
    Yes, but we *expect* primates to have developed basic stone tools at some time, and therefore are looking for such tools to see when they were first used. We aren't necessarily doing the same for anything from the time of the dinosaurs, even if we knew what to look for.

    (Note, I am not claiming they were intelligent).
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    edited April 2018
    bf doesn’t seem to specify first name. Could that mean they are paying out to a place?
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061
    Cyclefree said:

    Off-topic:

    A slightly odd question for PB's brains trust:

    How can we be sure that some dinosaurs did not develop higher intelligence, or even societies?

    No evidence at all of tool use. Whilst the record is scant we would probably have found something.
    Thanks. But what signs of tool use would we be looking for, and which are not open to misinterpretation?
    A fork?
    :)

    Perhaps the lack of a good fork or two is why they died out?
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Off-topic:

    A slightly odd question for PB's brains trust:

    How can we be sure that some dinosaurs did not develop higher intelligence, or even societies?

    The average pigeon doesn't strike me as particularly intelligent. Non-avian dinosaurs did however rule the earth for a staggeringly long period of time, we'll be doing well to match their 177 million year rule.
    B.F.Skinner taught pigeons to play wiff-waff and steer guided missiles (genuinely).
    ........ and they invented pigeon english.
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mr. Jessop, minor tool use, as per apes with sticks or ravens likewise, might be possible.

    Edited extra bit: how long did it take for George and Charlotte to be named?


    Minus 200 years?
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Off-topic:

    A slightly odd question for PB's brains trust:

    How can we be sure that some dinosaurs did not develop higher intelligence, or even societies?

    No evidence at all of tool use. Whilst the record is scant we would probably have found something.
    60 m years is a long time for evidence of anything to survive. With us, the giveaway will probably be the plastic microbeads from our cosmetics.
    We have evdence of tool use amongst primates from 3.4 million years ago. Once you get to that stage in the fossilisation process it doesn't really matter if it is 3.4 or 34 or 134 million. If they used tools then we would find evidence if it. Especially given we find nests, eggs and feathers.
    Is that fossil evidence, though, rather than actual stone tools?

    I think your stipulation as to what constitutes higher intelligence is too narrow, anyway. Tools are initially for killing animals for food and clothing, and building shelters. A vegetarian society of creatures well enough adapted to their surroundings to get by without clothes and houses could spend their time discoursing on philosophy or calculating the value of pi, without leaving much trace.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,618
    If that's serious I weep for humanity.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,790
    edited April 2018

    FF43 said:


    These are the WTO definitions of "free trade agreement" and "customs union". They have defined meaning in terms of treaties and WTO commitments and is all we need to know. "customs arrangements" and "the/a customs unions" are terms designed to confuse and have no meaning:

    (a) A customs union shall be understood to mean the substitution of a single customs territory for two or more customs territories, so that

    (i) duties and other restrictive regulations of commerce (except, blah) are eliminated with respect to substantially all the trade between the constituent territories of the union or at least with respect to substantially all the trade in products originating in such territories, and,

    (ii) ... substantially the same duties and other regulations of commerce are applied by each of the members of the union to the trade of territories not included in the union;

    (b) A free-trade area shall be understood to mean a group of two or more customs territories in which the duties and other restrictive regulations of commerce (except blah) are eliminated on substantially all the trade between the constituent territories in products originating in such territories.


    So the UK will have a specific WTO-endorsed customs union with the EU that is "substantially" the same (and possibly exactly the same) as the one it already has as a EU member.

    https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/region_e/region_art24_e.htm

    Except as Turkey shows us it cannot be the same. The Turkey CU means that 3rd party country goods can enter Turkey tariff free is the EU has a free trade deal with that country but Turkish goods do not have the same benefits on reverse. It is not a clever situation to get into.
    It is the same as far as UK/EU goods are concerned (half the total). It is not necessarily the same for UK/non-EU goods, although if Turkey is a guide, it mostly will be. The problem is that if the third country already has access for its goods to the UK, it won't have an incentive to make the same concessions to incoming UK goods. On the other hand the UK already has a very good set of preferential agreements with third countries through the EU, The UK will be trying to retain as much as possible of the status quo against third countries attempting to recast agreements in their favour. The closer the UK is to the EU, the easier it is to keep the status quo*.

    In summary a customs union is very beneficial to the UK/EU half of trade and a mixed bag for the rest.

    * Esp if the UK can retain diagonal accumulation on rules of origin. ie it sells a car into Korea containing 40% EU origin and 30% UK origin, can that meet the 60% local content threshold for zero rated duty?
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    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516
    Hasn't TSE regularly argued for Theresa May to be no confidenced in the last couple of years? Now he is claiming those doing the same are traitors?
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,920
    So what's the consensus on this customs union vote?
    Does it actually matter much?

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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Something's up:

    This is the cryptic comment that John Bercow, the Commons speaker, came out with a moment ago. (See 3.25pm.)

    "Colleagues needn’t worry. Their questions will be reached. But the chair has to react to the development of events, to which I and some colleagues are privy, and others are not. And if you weren’t already confused, you will now be."


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/apr/23/brexit-no-10-rejects-claims-customs-union-vote-to-be-made-a-confidence-issue-politics-live

    (Probably some big Windrush announcement).
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    Afternoon all. A good day to bury bad news?
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    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516
    I wonder if the new royal achieves as much as the last thirdborn to be King. William IV ushered in ceremonial monarchy. He even subjugated himself to the Commons by agreeing to, if needed, stack the Lords at the PM's request. The purpose was to stop the unelected Lords from overturning a bill that would bring greater power to the British people.

    A fine precedent for the British constitution.
This discussion has been closed.