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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Fewer than 3 in 5 of GE2017 LAB voters prefer Corbyn as “next

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  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,446

    Floater said:

    Charles said:

    Tr: we are neither ruling out or ruling in a second referendum as long as there's the slightest chance that committing to either will lose us voters.
    You should try to be more positive

    They will continue to pretend to be on both sides as long as that attracts voters
    Facing both ways at the same time. Are we LibDems in disguise?
    Well Corbyn's got a beard ...
    Doesn't he have an allotment too?

    I wonder if he grows lentils and makes his own sandals.
    No, those are the LibDems!
  • Options
    On Spurs they went off at a pace but when playing a semi at Wembley it is not the best to do. United started to outplay them 25 minutes in but were very also good in defence throughout

    I did not know that is the eight cup semi Spurs have lost and this time on their home ground.

    You do wonder if Chelsea will catch them for fourth. I believe they have to play each other.

    Getting squeaky bum time maybe
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,054
    Charles said:

    Ed Balls on BBC playing the eukaleli and singing “when I’m cleaning windows”

    I've told this anecdote before but not so long ago I was on a bus tour in Oxford. We went past lots of the colleges - 'that's St John's college where former prime minister Tony Blair studied', next it was 'that's Somerville college where former prime minister Margaret Thatcher' studied and then the announcer asked if there were any fans of strictly come dancing on board. A few people cheered. 'And that there is Keble college, where Ed Balls studied'.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048
    surby said:

    This is turning out to be like the run in to the Customs Union change. Slow and salami sliced changes, then 6 months down the line, Corbyn will say so himself. Remember he was against Customs Union too!
    I can see that happening.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    JonathanD said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Yes. Those dastardly, export earning composers and viola players have been milking the system for YEARS.

    Deport ‘em, I reckon. Those trombonists? They don’t like it up ‘em!

    This really is a pointless argument. I don't think it will make much difference to our tax take. Ironically, as with the City, I seem to have a higher opinion of their abilities than they do themselves. But if the tax take does go down, I'm sure us Brexiteers will suffer.
    It’s pointless because your response to a well-argued piece on the impact of Brexit to the cultural sector sought to blame the writer rather than address any of the detail within.

    It’s easy to mock the “arts”, forgetting presumably that it is a multi-billion export industry these days, and one in which the U.K. has excelled.

    But, see also pharma, finance, aerospace, auto, higher education etc etc etc.
    There are two questions:

    1) Will the benefits of leaving the EU outweigh the costs?
    2) Will the costs and benefits be distributed evenly?

    The answer to 1) has been debated on here at length. The answer to 2) is almost certainly no. That, however, is always the case with any political and economic decision. Whilst I think it's a shame that other European states are now making things harder for British musicians, perhaps the author should think about what joining the EEC did to industries such as fishing.

    What really fucks me off is the sense of entitlement of certain groups in this country.
    UK fishing was screwed because they sold their fishing permits to the Spanish.Depletion of the fish stock and conservation efforts didn't help but those weren't the fault of the EU.

    The whining of the Brexiteers really is something to behold.
    How were they not the fault of the EU? Surely the CFP is the principal mechanism affecting the sustainability of fishing anywhere in EU waters?
  • Options
    TomsToms Posts: 2,478

    Toms said:

    Whew!
    I've just managed to escape watching the rest of the Queen's B'day celebration on the tele, during which I was fortunate to have a classic Eric Frank Russell novel to read.

    Is it Wasp or Next Of Kin ?
    "Three to Conquer". I don't know how he does it, but he even grips me through all that TV hullaballoo. I've just done a Google search on the man: it's sad how few books he wrote. I've discovered a few of 'em buried behind other stuff. I think a visit to my local used bookstore is in order.
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,045



    I don’t think anyone is ‘excited’ about this scandal. Antisemitism also affects few voters directly but IIRC you were convinced it was disastrous for Labour electorally.

    Exhibit A: a Govt. mid-term 5% poll lead.....

    Sub exhibit A(i): a party partisan taking a single poll as evidence of an established & solid lead.
    Exhibit B Tory lead of 9% eve of poll GE2017 100 seat majority in bag.

    9.59 Tories await Exit Poll to see how big their majority has increased to.

    10.00 Cats kicked throughout Tory Land
    LOL!!
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,880


    You mean a lot of money was spent.

    Perhaps you'd like to make a list of the great achievements which people will remember a century from now.

    .
    So you can't think of anything.

    And the idea that London only became 'de facto cultural capital of Europe' after 1997 is comical.
    I’m not here to compile lists of great British creative achievements.

    And indeed, since you appear to be a philistine and a halfwit, it would be wasted on you anyway.

    I am here to point out the value of creative exports (according to that article) nearly rank with the budget of the whole NHS. You seem to disregard that in your sneering troglodytism.
    A tendency of people with closed minds in my experience.
    I’m not sure *what* your point is.
    I suspect you don’t have one. You simply saw an opportunity to sneer at some old New Labour PR term “Cool Britannia”, presumably seeking warm approval from your fellow trogs.

    Not really relevant to 2018, is it?
    I wasn't making a point or trying to prove anything I asked two questions namely what happened to 'Cool Britannia' and what great achievments did it produce.

    Yet within a couple of replies you were into 'philistine', 'halfwit' and now 'trogs'.

    I would have hoped that anyone raising an issue would be willing to discuss it in a civilised manner and be open to new thoughts relating to it.

    Are you ?

    So if you wish we could discuss art or music or literature of recent years and how it has changed. Or indeed seeing that you mentioned the Black and White Minstrel Show how current television compares to that of the 1970s.

    The 1970s gave us Elizabeth R, Secret Army, The Onedin Line, Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, Grange Hill and various Plays For Today among the drama programs and Fawlty Towers, Porridge, Some Mothers Do 'Av 'Em, The Good Life, Rising Damp and Not The Nine O'Clock News among the comedy. Plus Minder which was a bit of both.

    Now how does the last decade compare to that ?
    Those are all great shows, but what is your point? It would be boring for PB to add a rollcall from Thomas Ades to Zaha Hadid.

    The fact is that in cultural exports, we are a superpower. And, in almost every studio, every architecture practice, every atelier in the country, the talent comes from across the U.K. and across the EU.

    Turns out that the creative industry - like finance - is heavily clustered - and London is the largest such - by far - in Europe. Brexit makes this all more difficult.
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,853



    Perhaps you'd like to make a list of the great achievements which people will remember a century from now.

    No doubt they’ll be analysing SeanT’s work in the University of Alpha Centauri.

    Yes, it’s made a lot of money. And taxes paid too, which is helpful when considering the cost of your round-the-clock incontinence service.
    So you can't think of anything.

    And the idea that London only became 'de facto cultural capital of Europe' after 1997 is comical.
    I’m not here to compile lists of great British creative achievements.

    And indeed, since you appear to be a philistine and a halfwit, it would be wasted on you anyway.

    I am here to point out the value of creative exports (according to that article) nearly rank with the budget of the whole NHS. You seem to disregard that in your sneering troglodytism.
    LOL

    You so often stoop to shrill abuse when people ask inconvenient questions.

    A tendency of people with closed minds in my experience.
    What *is* your inconvenient question? What are you trying to prove? That the Black and White Minstrel show was the apex of British civilisation?

    I’m not sure *what* your point is.
    I suspect you don’t have one. You simply saw an opportunity to sneer at some old New Labour PR term “Cool Britannia”, presumably seeking warm approval from your fellow trogs.

    Not really relevant to 2018, is it?
    I wasn't making a point or trying to prove anything I asked two questions namely what happened to 'Cool Britannia' and what great achievments did it produce.

    Yet within a couple of replies you were into 'philistine', 'halfwit' and now 'trogs'.

    I would have hoped that anyone raising an issue would be willing to discuss it in a civilised manner and be open to new thoughts relating to it.

    Are you ?

    So if you wish we could discuss art or music or literature of recent years and how it has changed. Or indeed seeing that you mentioned the Black and White Minstrel Show how current television compares to that of the 1970s.

    The 1970s gave us Elizabeth R, Secret Army, The Onedin Line, Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, Grange Hill and various Plays For Today among the drama programs and Fawlty Towers, Porridge, Some Mothers Do 'Av 'Em, The Good Life, Rising Damp and Not The Nine O'Clock News among the comedy. Plus Minder which was a bit of both.

    Now how does the last decade compare to that ?
    My view is somwhat limited by having a two year old, but Go Jetters will be passed to future historians as the finest contemporary allegory for Brexit that there was.
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    Disappointed...

    I know how Ed miliband felt now...
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758


    You mean a lot of money was spent.

    Perhaps you'd like to make a list of the great achievements which people will reember a century from now.

    .
    So you can't think of anything.

    And the idea that London only became 'de facto cultural capital of Europe' after 1997 is comical.
    I’m not here to compile lists of great British creative achievements.

    And indeed, since you appear to be a philistine and a halfwit, it would be wasted on you anyway.

    I am here to point out the value of creative exports (according to that article) nearly rank with the budget of the whole NHS. You seem to disregard that in your sneering troglodytism.
    A tendency of people with closed minds in my experience.
    I’m not sure *what* your point is.
    I suspect you don’t have one. You simply saw an opportunity to sneer at some old New Labour PR term “Cool Britannia”, presumably seeking warm approval from your fellow trogs.

    Not really relevant to 2018, is it?
    I wasn't making a point or trying to prove anything I asked two questions namely what happened to 'Cool Britannia' and what great achievments did it produce.

    Yet within a couple of replies you were into 'philistine', 'halfwit' and now 'trogs'.

    I would have hoped that anyone raising an issue would be willing to discuss it in a civilised manner and be open to new thoughts relating to it.

    Are you ?

    So if you wish we could discuss art or music or literature of recent years and how it has changed. Or indeed seeing that you mentioned the Black and White Minstrel Show how current television compares to that of the 1970s.

    The 1970s gave us Elizabeth R, Secret Army, The Onedin Line, Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, Grange Hill and various Plays For Today among the drama programs and Fawlty Towers, Porridge, Some Mothers Do 'Av 'Em, The Good Life, Rising Damp and Not The Nine O'Clock News among the comedy. Plus Minder which was a bit of both.

    Now how does the last decade compare to that ?
    Those are all great shows, but what is your point? It would be boring for PB to add a rollcall from Thomas Ades to Zaha Hadid.

    The fact is that in cultural exports, we are a superpower. And, in almost every studio, every architecture practice, every atelier in the country, the talent comes from across the U.K. and across the EU.

    Turns out that the creative industry - like finance - is heavily clustered - and London is the largest such - by far - in Europe. Brexit makes this all more difficult.
    So French protectionism doesn’t work?
  • Options

    On Spurs they went off at a pace but when playing a semi at Wembley it is not the best to do. United started to outplay them 25 minutes in but were very also good in defence throughout

    I did not know that is the eight cup semi Spurs have lost and this time on their home ground.

    You do wonder if Chelsea will catch them for fourth. I believe they have to play each other.

    Getting squeaky bum time maybe

    Nah. We won at the bridge a few weeks ago... 3 home games left out of 4....surely we can't stuff that up too...
  • Options

    On Spurs they went off at a pace but when playing a semi at Wembley it is not the best to do. United started to outplay them 25 minutes in but were very also good in defence throughout

    I did not know that is the eight cup semi Spurs have lost and this time on their home ground.

    You do wonder if Chelsea will catch them for fourth. I believe they have to play each other.

    Getting squeaky bum time maybe

    Nah. We won at the bridge a few weeks ago... 3 home games left out of 4....surely we can't stuff that up too...
    Depends on how they take the pressure. I hope not as Spurs have played wonderful football this year but it is just a bit uncertain now
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    RIP , mini-me -Verne troyer.
  • Options

    On Spurs they went off at a pace but when playing a semi at Wembley it is not the best to do. United started to outplay them 25 minutes in but were very also good in defence throughout

    I did not know that is the eight cup semi Spurs have lost and this time on their home ground.

    You do wonder if Chelsea will catch them for fourth. I believe they have to play each other.

    Getting squeaky bum time maybe

    Nah. We won at the bridge a few weeks ago... 3 home games left out of 4....surely we can't stuff that up too...
    Depends on how they take the pressure. I hope not as Spurs have played wonderful football this year but it is just a bit uncertain now
    Sorry if I may have caused you concern. Spurs deserve champions league football this year.

    The trouble is when you have followed football for over 65 years you have seen many stranger things happen
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292

    RIP , mini-me -Verne troyer.

    Uncle grim has been very busy the past couple of weeks.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,261
    edited April 2018
    Ishmael_Z said:

    JonathanD said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Yes. Those dastardly, export earning composers and viola players have been milking the system for YEARS.

    Deport ‘em, I reckon. Those trombonists? They don’t like it up ‘em!

    This really is a pointless argument. I don't think it will make much difference to our tax take. Ironically, as with the City, I seem to have a higher opinion of their abilities than they do themselves. But if the tax take does go down, I'm sure us Brexiteers will suffer.
    It’s pointless because your response to a well-argued piece on the impact of Brexit to the cultural sector sought to blame the writer rather than address any of the detail within.

    It’s easy to mock the “arts”, forgetting presumably that it is a multi-billion export industry these days, and one in which the U.K. has excelled.

    But, see also pharma, finance, aerospace, auto, higher education etc etc etc.
    There are two questions:

    1) Will the benefits of leaving the EU outweigh the costs?
    2) Will the costs and benefits be distributed evenly?

    The answer to 1) has been debated on here at length. The answer to 2) is almost certainly no. That, however, is always the case with any political and economic decision. Whilst I think it's a shame that other European states are now making things harder for British musicians, perhaps the author should think about what joining the EEC did to industries such as fishing.

    What really fucks me off is the sense of entitlement of certain groups in this country.
    UK fishing was screwed because they sold their fishing permits to the Spanish.Depletion of the fish stock and conservation efforts didn't help but those weren't the fault of the EU.

    The whining of the Brexiteers really is something to behold.
    How were they not the fault of the EU? Surely the CFP is the principal mechanism affecting the sustainability of fishing anywhere in EU waters?
    Only as an enabler of Scottish fishermen's greed, according to this fisherman. And once the greed was out of control, the EU stepped in to put a stopper on it.

    'On Scottish Fishing'

    https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2018/04/03/on-scottish-fishing/
  • Options

    On Spurs they went off at a pace but when playing a semi at Wembley it is not the best to do. United started to outplay them 25 minutes in but were very also good in defence throughout

    I did not know that is the eight cup semi Spurs have lost and this time on their home ground.

    You do wonder if Chelsea will catch them for fourth. I believe they have to play each other.

    Getting squeaky bum time maybe

    Nah. We won at the bridge a few weeks ago... 3 home games left out of 4....surely we can't stuff that up too...
    Depends on how they take the pressure. I hope not as Spurs have played wonderful football this year but it is just a bit uncertain now
    Sorry if I may have caused you concern. Spurs deserve champions league football this year.

    The trouble is when you have followed football for over 65 years you have seen many stranger things happen
    Southam usually appears at the end of season betting against spurs.. .. I've copied him this year and won consolation bets for both today and city last week... Doesn't help much... Just bet on saints tomorrow and Watford and Newcastle v spurs to come.... He'd approve I'm sure!!
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920
    I see Mike's having dinner with Brexiteer Sean Fear tonight!!!!

    #PeaceInOurTime
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    JonathanD said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Yes. Those dastardly, export earning composers and viola players have been milking the system for YEARS.

    Deport ‘em, I reckon. Those trombonists? They don’t like it up ‘em!

    This really is a pointless argument. I don't think it will make much difference to our tax take. Ironically, as with the City, I seem to have a higher opinion of their abilities than they do themselves. But if the tax take does go down, I'm sure us Brexiteers will suffer.
    It’s pointless because your response to a well-argued piece on the impact of Brexit to the cultural sector sought to blame the writer rather than address any of the detail within.

    It’s easy to mock the “arts”, forgetting presumably that it is a multi-billion export industry these days, and one in which the U.K. has excelled.

    But, see also pharma, finance, aerospace, auto, higher education etc etc etc.
    There are two questions:

    1) Will the benefits of leaving the EU outweigh the costs?
    2) Will the costs and benefits be distributed evenly?

    The answer to 1) has been debated on here at length. The answer to 2) is almost certainly no. That, however, is always the case with any political and economic decision. Whilst I think it's a shame that other European states are now making things harder for British musicians, perhaps the author should think about what joining the EEC did to industries such as fishing.

    What really fucks me off is the sense of entitlement of certain groups in this country.
    UK fishing was screwed because they sold their fishing permits to the Spanish.Depletion of the fish stock and conservation efforts didn't help but those weren't the fault of the EU.

    The whining of the Brexiteers really is something to behold.
    How were they not the fault of the EU? Surely the CFP is the principal mechanism affecting the sustainability of fishing anywhere in EU waters?
    Only as an enabler of Scottish fishermen's greed, according to this fisherman. And once the greed was out of control, the EU stepped in to put a stopper on it.

    'On Scottish Fishing'

    https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2018/04/03/on-scottish-fishing/
    Well, OK, but even explained like that, it's not a story from which the EU emerges looking all that good. And certainly not all that bright.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    GIN1138 said:

    I see Mike's having dinner with Brexiteer Sean Fear tonight!!!!

    #PeaceInOurTime

    Not until Alastair Meeks is invited too...and attends!
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    edited April 2018

    RIP , mini-me -Verne troyer.

    Uncle grim has been very busy the past couple of weeks.
    Dale Winton and Mini-me. He's certainly eclectic is Uncle Grim.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,132


    I’m not here to compile lists of great British creative achievements.

    And indeed, since you appear to be a philistine and a halfwit, it would be wasted on you anyway.

    I am here to point out the value of creative exports (according to that article) nearly rank with the budget of the whole NHS. You seem to disregard that in your sneering troglodytism.

    A tendency of people with closed minds in my experience.
    I’m not sure *what* your point is.
    I suspect you don’t have one. You simply saw an opportunity to sneer at some old New Labour PR term “Cool Britannia”, presumably seeking warm approval from your fellow trogs.

    Not really relevant to 2018, is it?
    I wasn't making a point or trying to prove anything I asked two questions namely what happened to 'Cool Britannia' and what great achievments did it produce.

    Yet within a couple of replies you were into 'philistine', 'halfwit' and now 'trogs'.

    I would have hoped that anyone raising an issue would be willing to discuss it in a civilised manner and be open to new thoughts relating to it.

    Are you ?

    So if you wish we could discuss art or music or literature of recent years and how it has changed. Or indeed seeing that you mentioned the Black and White Minstrel Show how current television compares to that of the 1970s.

    The 1970s gave us Elizabeth R, Secret Army, The Onedin Line, Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, Grange Hill and various Plays For Today among the drama programs and Fawlty Towers, Porridge, Some Mothers Do 'Av 'Em, The Good Life, Rising Damp and Not The Nine O'Clock News among the comedy. Plus Minder which was a bit of both.

    Now how does the last decade compare to that ?
    Those are all great shows, but what is your point? It would be boring for PB to add a rollcall from Thomas Ades to Zaha Hadid.

    The fact is that in cultural exports, we are a superpower. And, in almost every studio, every architecture practice, every atelier in the country, the talent comes from across the U.K. and across the EU.

    Turns out that the creative industry - like finance - is heavily clustered - and London is the largest such - by far - in Europe. Brexit makes this all more difficult.
    Britain being a centre of culture long outdates 'Cool Britannia' or membership of the EU.

    And in many areas - for example television in the 1970s or music in the 1960s or further back literature in the 19th century - the cultural importance was higher then than their equivalents today.

    With other parts of the world becoming more politically and economically important an insular EUcentric looking view might actually be detrimental in the years to come.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    Charles said:

    Ed Balls on BBC playing the eukaleli and singing “when I’m cleaning windows”

    Will that be when the wife has kicked you out and told you to go get a job, rather than spending the morning watching Jeremy Kyle in your trackie bottoms and string vest, eh Ed? (Haven't got the excuse now that "It's research on my constituents...")
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920

    GIN1138 said:

    I see Mike's having dinner with Brexiteer Sean Fear tonight!!!!

    #PeaceInOurTime

    Not until Alastair Meeks is invited too...and attends!
    :D
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,132

    GIN1138 said:

    I see Mike's having dinner with Brexiteer Sean Fear tonight!!!!

    #PeaceInOurTime

    Not until Alastair Meeks is invited too...and attends!
    The Smithson-Fear dinner party is very non league compared to a Meeks-Thomas possibility.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,261
    edited April 2018
    Ishmael_Z said:


    Well, OK, but even explained like that, it's not a story from which the EU emerges looking all that good. And certainly not all that bright.

    Mebbes so, but at least the EU appears to have mended its ways. The utterances of UK fisherman seems to center around access to 'their' fish being restrained, or resentment of foreign boats taking 'their' fish. They seem oblivious to the fact that they do and will depend largely on foreigners to purchase and consume the fish they catch.
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,880

    Ishmael_Z said:


    Well, OK, but even explained like that, it's not a story from which the EU emerges looking all that good. And certainly not all that bright.

    Mebbes so, but at least the EU seems to have mended their ways. The utterances of UK fisherman seems to center around access to 'their' fish being restrained, or resentment of foreign boats taking 'their' fish. They seem oblivious to the fact that they do and will depend largely on foreigners to purchase and consume the fish they catch.
    The shocker to me was to discover that 80% of the Welsh fishing catch had been sold to a single Spanish company.

    We buggered our fishing industry because we weren’t interested in it.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,132
    Charles said:


    So you can't think of anything.

    And the idea that London only became 'de facto cultural capital of Europe' after 1997 is comical.

    I’m not here to compile lists of great British creative achievements.

    And indeed, since you appear to be a philistine and a halfwit, it would be wasted on you anyway.

    I am here to point out the value of creative exports (according to that article) nearly rank with the budget of the whole NHS. You seem to disregard that in your sneering troglodytism.
    A tendency of people with closed minds in my experience.
    I’m not sure *what* your point is.
    I suspect you don’t have one. You simply saw an opportunity to sneer at some old New Labour PR term “Cool Britannia”, presumably seeking warm approval from your fellow trogs.

    Not really relevant to 2018, is it?
    I wasn't making a point or trying to prove anything I asked two questions namely what happened to 'Cool Britannia' and what great achievments did it produce.

    Yet within a couple of replies you were into 'philistine', 'halfwit' and now 'trogs'.

    I would have hoped that anyone raising an issue would be willing to discuss it in a civilised manner and be open to new thoughts relating to it.

    Are you ?

    So if you wish we could discuss art or music or literature of recent years and how it has changed. Or indeed seeing that you mentioned the Black and White Minstrel Show how current television compares to that of the 1970s.

    The 1970s gave us Elizabeth R, Secret Army, The Onedin Line, Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, Grange Hill and various Plays For Today among the drama programs and Fawlty Towers, Porridge, Some Mothers Do 'Av 'Em, The Good Life, Rising Damp and Not The Nine O'Clock News among the comedy. Plus Minder which was a bit of both.

    Now how does the last decade compare to that ?
    Those are all great shows, but what is your point? It would be boring for PB to add a rollcall from Thomas Ades to Zaha Hadid.

    The fact is that in cultural exports, we are a superpower. And, in almost every studio, every architecture practice, every atelier in the country, the talent comes from across the U.K. and across the EU.

    Turns out that the creative industry - like finance - is heavily clustered - and London is the largest such - by far - in Europe. Brexit makes this all more difficult.
    So French protectionism doesn’t work?
    Doesn't French culture always use the past tense ?
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Britain being a centre of culture long outdates 'Cool Britannia' or membership of the EU.

    And in many areas - for example television in the 1970s or music in the 1960s or further back literature in the 19th century - the cultural importance was higher then than their equivalents today.

    With other parts of the world becoming more politically and economically important an insular EUcentric looking view might actually be detrimental in the years to come.

    For what its worth I grew up in the 90s overseas (Australia) but as far as "Cool Britannia" is concerned there was a swathe of British exports to Aus at least and certainly beyond in the 90s: Britpop, Spice Girls, Robbie Williams and more for music alone.

    Even non-British movies took a Cool Britannia approach in things like Austin Powers.

    Now none of that is to say it wouldn't have happened anyway but that's not really that important is it? What's important is we continue to export our culture where possible.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,880


    A tendency of people with closed minds in my experience.
    I’m not sure *what* your point is.
    I suspect you don’t have one. You simply saw an opportunity to sneer at some old New Labour PR term “Cool Britannia”, presumably seeking warm approval from your fellow trogs.

    Not really relevant to 2018, is it?
    I wasn't making a point or trying to prove anything I asked two questions namely what happened to 'Cool Britannia' and what great achievments did it produce.

    Yet within a couple of replies you were into 'philistine', 'halfwit' and now 'trogs'.

    I would have hoped that anyone raising an issue would be willing to discuss it in a civilised manner and be open to new thoughts relating to it.

    Are you ?

    So if you wish we could discuss art or music or literature of recent years and how it has changed. Or indeed seeing that you mentioned the Black and White Minstrel Show how current television compares to that of the 1970s.

    The 1970s gave us Elizabeth R, Secret Army, The Onedin Line, Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, Grange Hill and various Plays For Today among the drama programs and Fawlty Towers, Porridge, Some Mothers Do 'Av 'Em, The Good Life, Rising Damp and Not The Nine O'Clock News among the comedy. Plus Minder which was a bit of both.

    Now how does the last decade compare to that ?
    Turns out that the creative industry - like finance - is heavily clustered - and London is the largest such - by far - in Europe. Brexit makes this all more difficult.
    Britain being a centre of culture long outdates 'Cool Britannia' or membership of the EU.

    And in many areas - for example television in the 1970s or music in the 1960s or further back literature in the 19th century - the cultural importance was higher then than their equivalents today.

    With other parts of the world becoming more politically and economically important an insular EUcentric looking view might actually be detrimental in the years to come.
    I think you are confusing the export and economic value of the cultural sector - which is bigger than ever - with your own subjective view on cultural quality.

    This is unsurprising because you have no answer to the original article, except to say that we didn’t need the EU to produce “Minder”.

    Even Arthur Daly wouldn’t bother with such a pathetic argument.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,132

    Britain being a centre of culture long outdates 'Cool Britannia' or membership of the EU.

    And in many areas - for example television in the 1970s or music in the 1960s or further back literature in the 19th century - the cultural importance was higher then than their equivalents today.

    With other parts of the world becoming more politically and economically important an insular EUcentric looking view might actually be detrimental in the years to come.

    For what its worth I grew up in the 90s overseas (Australia) but as far as "Cool Britannia" is concerned there was a swathe of British exports to Aus at least and certainly beyond in the 90s: Britpop, Spice Girls, Robbie Williams and more for music alone.

    Even non-British movies took a Cool Britannia approach in things like Austin Powers.

    Now none of that is to say it wouldn't have happened anyway but that's not really that important is it? What's important is we continue to export our culture where possible.
    All those started in the early to mid 1990s.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,261

    GIN1138 said:

    I see Mike's having dinner with Brexiteer Sean Fear tonight!!!!

    #PeaceInOurTime

    Not until Alastair Meeks is invited too...and attends!
    The Smithson-Fear dinner party is very non league compared to a Meeks-Thomas possibility.
    I'd like to think that a Meeks-Thomas dinner might end in a grunty Alan Bates-Oliver Reed style rapprochement in front of a roaring fire.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:


    Well, OK, but even explained like that, it's not a story from which the EU emerges looking all that good. And certainly not all that bright.

    Mebbes so, but at least the EU appears to have mended its ways. The utterances of UK fisherman seems to center around access to 'their' fish being restrained, or resentment of foreign boats taking 'their' fish. They seem oblivious to the fact that they do and will depend largely on foreigners to purchase and consume the fish they catch.
    I am always amazed in the SYP supermarkets in the Balearics, at the amount and variety of wet fish for sale. Then I reflect that none of it has a particularly Mediterranean look to it, and quite likely much of it was caught within 50 miles from where I live, and it's a shame Ibiza has more of an appetite for it than we do.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/987803822037839874

    They say about 10% of most countries are morons, I think the percentage might be quite a bit higher in the uk...
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,583
    edited April 2018
    The Great Brexit betrayal is coming according to The Sunday Times, Sir Graham Brady's postie is going to get a hernia.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/987791875041124354
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787

    GIN1138 said:

    I see Mike's having dinner with Brexiteer Sean Fear tonight!!!!

    #PeaceInOurTime

    Not until Alastair Meeks is invited too...and attends!
    The Smithson-Fear dinner party is very non league compared to a Meeks-Thomas possibility.
    I'd like to think that a Meeks-Thomas dinner might end in a grunty Alan Bates-Oliver Reed style rapprochement in front of a roaring fire.
    Famously edited by the Turkish film censor cutting from initial grapple to collapsing panting on the floor - known forever after by Turkish audiences as 'the great buggery scene'....which one suspects was not the intent....
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,132


    I wasn't making a point or trying to prove anything I asked two questions namely what happened to 'Cool Britannia' and what great achievments did it produce.

    Yet within a couple of replies you were into 'philistine', 'halfwit' and now 'trogs'.

    I would have hoped that anyone raising an issue would be willing to discuss it in a civilised manner and be open to new thoughts relating to it.

    Are you ?

    So if you wish we could discuss art or music or literature of recent years and how it has changed. Or indeed seeing that you mentioned the Black and White Minstrel Show how current television compares to that of the 1970s.

    The 1970s gave us Elizabeth R, Secret Army, The Onedin Line, Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, Grange Hill and various Plays For Today among the drama programs and Fawlty Towers, Porridge, Some Mothers Do 'Av 'Em, The Good Life, Rising Damp and Not The Nine O'Clock News among the comedy. Plus Minder which was a bit of both.

    Now how does the last decade compare to that ?

    Turns out that the creative industry - like finance - is heavily clustered - and London is the largest such - by far - in Europe. Brexit makes this all more difficult.
    Britain being a centre of culture long outdates 'Cool Britannia' or membership of the EU.

    And in many areas - for example television in the 1970s or music in the 1960s or further back literature in the 19th century - the cultural importance was higher then than their equivalents today.

    With other parts of the world becoming more politically and economically important an insular EUcentric looking view might actually be detrimental in the years to come.
    I think you are confusing the export and economic value of the cultural sector - which is bigger than ever - with your own subjective view on cultural quality.

    This is unsurprising because you have no answer to the original article, except to say that we didn’t need the EU to produce “Minder”.

    Even Arthur Daly wouldn’t bother with such a pathetic argument.
    So yet again you slip into abuse.

    Are tourists going to stop visiting Stratford or are cultural interactions going to cease or are teenagers going to stop trying to become pop stars ?

    Perhaps, I don't know but I'm hopeful the cultural sector can continue to prosper - there's a big wide world beyond Fortress EU.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,261
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:


    Well, OK, but even explained like that, it's not a story from which the EU emerges looking all that good. And certainly not all that bright.

    Mebbes so, but at least the EU appears to have mended its ways. The utterances of UK fisherman seems to center around access to 'their' fish being restrained, or resentment of foreign boats taking 'their' fish. They seem oblivious to the fact that they do and will depend largely on foreigners to purchase and consume the fish they catch.
    I am always amazed in the SYP supermarkets in the Balearics, at the amount and variety of wet fish for sale. Then I reflect that none of it has a particularly Mediterranean look to it, and quite likely much of it was caught within 50 miles from where I live, and it's a shame Ibiza has more of an appetite for it than we do.
    Yep, I stocked up on several fishy delicacies in the Alicante market the day before I came back to Glasgow last autumn. I'm pretty sure at least a couple of them were caught a lot closer to my homeward destination than my holiday one.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,132

    GIN1138 said:

    I see Mike's having dinner with Brexiteer Sean Fear tonight!!!!

    #PeaceInOurTime

    Not until Alastair Meeks is invited too...and attends!
    The Smithson-Fear dinner party is very non league compared to a Meeks-Thomas possibility.
    I'd like to think that a Meeks-Thomas dinner might end in a grunty Alan Bates-Oliver Reed style rapprochement in front of a roaring fire.
    Famously edited by the Turkish film censor cutting from initial grapple to collapsing panting on the floor - known forever after by Turkish audiences as 'the great buggery scene'....which one suspects was not the intent....
    I'd heard that story but didn't know which country it related to.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,261

    GIN1138 said:

    I see Mike's having dinner with Brexiteer Sean Fear tonight!!!!

    #PeaceInOurTime

    Not until Alastair Meeks is invited too...and attends!
    The Smithson-Fear dinner party is very non league compared to a Meeks-Thomas possibility.
    I'd like to think that a Meeks-Thomas dinner might end in a grunty Alan Bates-Oliver Reed style rapprochement in front of a roaring fire.
    Famously edited by the Turkish film censor cutting from initial grapple to collapsing panting on the floor - known forever after by Turkish audiences as 'the great buggery scene'....which one suspects was not the intent....
    Well, not on Ollie Reed's part anyway.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited April 2018
    When will boxing promoters learn from the success of the UFC and actually match make good even fights on the under cards?

    The current fight on the frampton card is one bloke jabbing and the other with his gloves up for 8 rounds.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,132

    GIN1138 said:

    I see Mike's having dinner with Brexiteer Sean Fear tonight!!!!

    #PeaceInOurTime

    Not until Alastair Meeks is invited too...and attends!
    The Smithson-Fear dinner party is very non league compared to a Meeks-Thomas possibility.
    I'd like to think that a Meeks-Thomas dinner might end in a grunty Alan Bates-Oliver Reed style rapprochement in front of a roaring fire.
    Given what SeanT was up to last weekend it sounds like the sort of thing he'd try.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,880


    I wasn't making a point or trying to prove anything I asked two questions namely what happened to 'Cool Britannia' and what great achievments did it produce.

    Yet within a couple of replies you were into 'philistine', 'halfwit' and now 'trogs'.

    I would have hoped that anyone raising an issue would be willing to discuss it in a civilised manner and be open to new thoughts relating to it.

    Are you ?

    So if you wish we could discuss art or music or literature of recent years and how it has changed. Or indeed seeing that you mentioned the Black and White Minstrel Show how current television compares to that of the 1970s.

    The 1970s gave us Elizabeth R, Secret Army, The Onedin Line, Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, Grange Hill and various Plays For Today among the drama programs and Fawlty Towers, Porridge, Some Mothers Do 'Av 'Em, The Good Life, Rising Damp and Not The Nine O'Clock News among the comedy. Plus Minder which was a bit of both.

    Now how does the last decade compare to that ?

    Turns out that the creative industry - like finance - is heavily clustered - and London is the largest such - by far - in Europe. Brexit makes this all more difficult.
    Britain being a centre of culture long outdates 'Cool Britannia' or membership of the EU.

    And in many areas - for example television in the 1970s or music in the 1960s or further back literature in the 19th century - the cultural importance was higher then than their equivalents today.

    With other parts of the world becoming more politically and economically important an insular EUcentric looking view might actually be detrimental in the years to come.
    I think you are confusing the export and economic value of the cultural sector - which is bigger than ever - with your own subjective view on cultural quality.

    This is unsurprising because you have no answer to the original article, except to say that we didn’t need the EU to produce “Minder”.

    Even Arthur Daly wouldn’t bother with such a pathetic argument.
    So yet again you slip into abuse.

    Are tourists going to stop visiting Stratford or are cultural interactions going to cease or are teenagers going to stop trying to become pop stars ?

    Perhaps, I don't know but I'm hopeful the cultural sector can continue to prosper - there's a big wide world beyond Fortress EU.
    Yes.

    All cultural interactions are going to cease, and Stratford is going to be closed down.

    Thats exactly what the article I posted some hours ago suggested, and what I’m predicting now.
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    AndyJS said:
    Labour should be ashamed of losing the working class vote.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,132


    I wasn't making a point or trying to prove anything I asked two questions namely what happened to 'Cool Britannia' and what great achievments did it produce.

    Yet within a couple of replies you were into 'philistine', 'halfwit' and now 'trogs'.

    I would have hoped that anyone raising an issue would be willing to discuss it in a civilised manner and be open to new thoughts relating to it.

    Are you ?

    So if you wish we could discuss art or music or literature of recent years and how it has changed. Or indeed seeing that you mentioned the Black and White Minstrel Show how current television compares to that of the 1970s.

    The 1970s gave us Elizabeth R, Secret Army, The Onedin Line, Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, Grange Hill and various Plays For Today among the drama programs and Fawlty Towers, Porridge, Some Mothers Do 'Av 'Em, The Good Life, Rising Damp and Not The Nine O'Clock News among the comedy. Plus Minder which was a bit of both.

    Now how does the last decade compare to that ?

    Turns out that the creative industry - like finance - is heavily clustered - and London is the largest such - by far - in Europe. Brexit makes this all more difficult.
    Britain being a centre of culture long outdates 'Cool Britannia' or membership of the EU.

    And in many areas - for example television in the 1970s or music in the 1960s or further back literature in the 19th century - the cultural importance was higher then than their equivalents today.

    With other parts of the world becoming more politically and economically important an insular EUcentric looking view might actually be detrimental in the years to come.
    I think you are confusing the export and economic value of the cultural sector - which is bigger than ever - with your own subjective view on cultural quality.

    This is unsurprising because you have no answer to the original article, except to say that we didn’t need the EU to produce “Minder”.

    Even Arthur Daly wouldn’t bother with such a pathetic argument.
    So yet again you slip into abuse.

    Are tourists going to stop visiting Stratford or are cultural interactions going to cease or are teenagers going to stop trying to become pop stars ?

    Perhaps, I don't know but I'm hopeful the cultural sector can continue to prosper - there's a big wide world beyond Fortress EU.
    Yes.

    All cultural interactions are going to cease, and Stratford is going to be closed down.

    Thats exactly what the article I posted some hours ago suggested, and what I’m predicting now.
    Well we'll have to see.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,505
    And this party would differ from the Lib Dems how exactly? Poor old Vince - he must feel like the invisible man at times.
    Anecdote alert: a voter I know well - university educated, 40s, public sector-ish jobs - who voted for Tony Blair in 97, 01 and 05 and, finding Gordon Brown repulsive, for David Cameron in 10 (and I do mean she voted for these people - her approach to general elections has always been to vote for the party whose leader she likes best), then voted UKIP in '15 (on this occasion due to a deep loathing of Ed Miliband - we forget now how virulently the people who disliked him, disliked him: she never got over the perceived filial disloyalty, and she thought a vote for UKIP the best chance locally of avoiding a labour MP and therefore an EdM as PM - moreover she really didn't regard UKIP with the horror that we were apparently supposed to), voted leave, without conviction, in 2016, then voted Lib Dem in 2017 because the Conservative manifesto offered her nothing (my suggestion that it offered a future in which we might at least pay lip service to living within our means was met with an expression of 'why would anyone vote for that - I want sweeties) and because when all's said and done she wants public spending without the insanity and the anger, and she felt that now the question of Europe was settled she could feel free to vote for the Lib Dems. She voted for them not because they were offering a route back into Europe, but in the expectation that now the question of Europe was out the way they broadly reflected her views.
    I would tentatively suggest that public spending without the insanity and the anger would be a rather popular offer, the more so if it came without lavish helpings of Europhilia. I would suggest though that the party she, and people like her want is not the Lib Dems but the 'leave' section of the Labour party. Maybe this is what respondents to the poll above have in mind. Or maybe not - who knows.
    Of course, this is just one person and drawing conclusions from one person is fraught with difficulty. Maybe the best thing we can conclude is that voters do not fit neatly into party boxes.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,446

    GIN1138 said:

    I see Mike's having dinner with Brexiteer Sean Fear tonight!!!!

    #PeaceInOurTime

    Not until Alastair Meeks is invited too...and attends!
    The Smithson-Fear dinner party is very non league compared to a Meeks-Thomas possibility.
    I'd like to think that a Meeks-Thomas dinner might end in a grunty Alan Bates-Oliver Reed style rapprochement in front of a roaring fire.
    Famously edited by the Turkish film censor cutting from initial grapple to collapsing panting on the floor - known forever after by Turkish audiences as 'the great buggery scene'....which one suspects was not the intent....
    Well, not on Ollie Reed's part anyway.
    "Win the crowd, and you will win your freedom!"
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068
    Cookie said:

    And this party would differ from the Lib Dems how exactly? Poor old Vince - he must feel like the invisible man at times.
    Anecdote alert: a voter I know well - university educated, 40s, public sector-ish jobs - who voted for Tony Blair in 97, 01 and 05 and, finding Gordon Brown repulsive, for David Cameron in 10 (and I do mean she voted for these people - her approach to general elections has always been to vote for the party whose leader she likes best), then voted UKIP in '15 (on this occasion due to a deep loathing of Ed Miliband - we forget now how virulently the people who disliked him, disliked him: she never got over the perceived filial disloyalty, and she thought a vote for UKIP the best chance locally of avoiding a labour MP and therefore an EdM as PM - moreover she really didn't regard UKIP with the horror that we were apparently supposed to), voted leave, without conviction, in 2016, then voted Lib Dem in 2017 because the Conservative manifesto offered her nothing (my suggestion that it offered a future in which we might at least pay lip service to living within our means was met with an expression of 'why would anyone vote for that - I want sweeties) and because when all's said and done she wants public spending without the insanity and the anger, and she felt that now the question of Europe was settled she could feel free to vote for the Lib Dems. She voted for them not because they were offering a route back into Europe, but in the expectation that now the question of Europe was out the way they broadly reflected her views.
    I would tentatively suggest that public spending without the insanity and the anger would be a rather popular offer, the more so if it came without lavish helpings of Europhilia. I would suggest though that the party she, and people like her want is not the Lib Dems but the 'leave' section of the Labour party. Maybe this is what respondents to the poll above have in mind. Or maybe not - who knows.
    Of course, this is just one person and drawing conclusions from one person is fraught with difficulty. Maybe the best thing we can conclude is that voters do not fit neatly into party boxes.
    I think the major difference would be that it wouldn't be run by a doddery old man, with a droning voice and Alzheimer's.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,132
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    And this party would differ from the Lib Dems how exactly? Poor old Vince - he must feel like the invisible man at times.
    Anecdote alert: a voter I know well - university educated, 40s, public sector-ish jobs - who voted for Tony Blair in 97, 01 and 05 and, finding Gordon Brown repulsive, for David Cameron in 10 (and I do mean she voted for these people - her approach to general elections has always been to vote for the party whose leader she likes best), then voted UKIP in '15 (on this occasion due to a deep loathing of Ed Miliband - we forget now how virulently the people who disliked him, disliked him: she never got over the perceived filial disloyalty, and she thought a vote for UKIP the best chance locally of avoiding a labour MP and therefore an EdM as PM - moreover she really didn't regard UKIP with the horror that we were apparently supposed to), voted leave, without conviction, in 2016, then voted Lib Dem in 2017 because the Conservative manifesto offered her nothing (my suggestion that it offered a future in which we might at least pay lip service to living within our means was met with an expression of 'why would anyone vote for that - I want sweeties) and because when all's said and done she wants public spending without the insanity and the anger, and she felt that now the question of Europe was settled she could feel free to vote for the Lib Dems. She voted for them not because they were offering a route back into Europe, but in the expectation that now the question of Europe was out the way they broadly reflected her views.
    I would tentatively suggest that public spending without the insanity and the anger would be a rather popular offer, the more so if it came without lavish helpings of Europhilia. I would suggest though that the party she, and people like her want is not the Lib Dems but the 'leave' section of the Labour party. Maybe this is what respondents to the poll above have in mind. Or maybe not - who knows.
    Of course, this is just one person and drawing conclusions from one person is fraught with difficulty. Maybe the best thing we can conclude is that voters do not fit neatly into party boxes.
    I think the major difference would be that it wouldn't be run by a doddery old man, with a droning voice and Alzheimer's.
    The voters weren't too impressed by a 'trendy vicar' type leader either.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,880
    edited April 2018
    Brexit Minister:

    Parliament’s meaningful vote will *not* be a “take it or leave it”, opening up the possibility of a second referendum.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-second-referendum-eu-vote-theresa-may-mps-minister-steve-baker-a8313111.html
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Have ComRes published top-line voting intention figures tonight?
  • Options
    AndyJS said:

    Have ComRes published top-line voting intention figures tonight?

    I think it has been said there are no VI figures
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,970

    On Spurs they went off at a pace but when playing a semi at Wembley it is not the best to do. United started to outplay them 25 minutes in but were very also good in defence throughout

    I did not know that is the eight cup semi Spurs have lost and this time on their home ground.

    You do wonder if Chelsea will catch them for fourth. I believe they have to play each other.

    Getting squeaky bum time maybe

    Nah. We won at the bridge a few weeks ago... 3 home games left out of 4....surely we can't stuff that up too...
    Depends on how they take the pressure. I hope not as Spurs have played wonderful football this year but it is just a bit uncertain now
    Sorry if I may have caused you concern. Spurs deserve champions league football this year.

    The trouble is when you have followed football for over 65 years you have seen many stranger things happen
    Southam usually appears at the end of season betting against spurs.. .. I've copied him this year and won consolation bets for both today and city last week... Doesn't help much... Just bet on saints tomorrow and Watford and Newcastle v spurs to come.... He'd approve I'm sure!!

    Won £100 today - United were an absurd 9-4 to win, so free money - and used £50 of it to top up on my Spurs finishing outside the top 4 position. Got 33-1 today, down from 100-1 a couple of weeks back. Am on to win just over £3,000 if it happens, thus making the choke slightly less unpleasant.

  • Options

    AndyJS said:

    Have ComRes published top-line voting intention figures tonight?

    I think it has been said there are no VI figures
    And time to say good night everyone
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    And this party would differ from the Lib Dems how exactly? Poor old Vince - he must feel like the invisible man at times.
    Anecdote alert: a voter I know well - university educated, 40s, public sector-ish jobs - who voted for Tony Blair in 97, 01 and 05 and, finding Gordon Brown repulsive, for David Cameron in 10 (and I do mean she voted for these people - her approach to general elections has always been to vote for the party whose leader she likes best), then voted UKIP in '15 (on this occasion due to a deep loathing of Ed Miliband - we forget now how virulently the people who disliked him, disliked him: she never got over the perceived filial disloyalty, and she thought a vote for UKIP the best chance locally of avoiding a labour MP and therefore an EdM as PM - moreover she really didn't regard UKIP with the horror that we were apparently supposed to), voted leave, without conviction, in 2016, then voted Lib Dem in 2017 because the Conservative manifesto offered her nothing (my suggestion that it offered a future in which we might at least pay lip service to living within our means was met with an expression of 'why would anyone vote for that - I want sweeties) and because when all's said and done she wants public spending without the insanity and the anger, and she felt that now the question of Europe was settled she could feel free to vote for the Lib Dems. She voted for them not because they were offering a route back into Europe, but in the expectation that now the question of Europe was out the way they broadly reflected her views.
    I would tentatively suggest that public spending without the insanity and the anger would be a rather popular offer, the more so if it came without lavish helpings of Europhilia. I would suggest though that the party she, and people like her want is not the Lib Dems but the 'leave' section of the Labour party. Maybe this is what respondents to the poll above have in mind. Or maybe not - who knows.
    Of course, this is just one person and drawing conclusions from one person is fraught with difficulty. Maybe the best thing we can conclude is that voters do not fit neatly into party boxes.
    I think the major difference would be that it wouldn't be run by a doddery old man, with a droning voice and Alzheimer's.
    The voters weren't too impressed by a 'trendy vicar' type leader either.
    Don't worry, they are going to try young, charisma free, identity politics obsessed, woman next.
  • Options
    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    rcs1000 said:

    Don't worry, they are going to try young, charisma free, identity politics obsessed, woman next.

    If they go with Swinson, they will last longer than if they go with Moran - but not much.

    Moran is really poor. The fact she is seen as a contender shows the dearth of talent left in the LDs.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920

    The Great Brexit betrayal is coming according to The Sunday Times, Sir Graham Brady's postie is going to get a hernia.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/987791875041124354

    It will be the last thing she does (as PM) if she does.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068

    rcs1000 said:

    Don't worry, they are going to try young, charisma free, identity politics obsessed, woman next.

    If they go with Swinson, they will last longer than if they go with Moran - but not much.

    Moran is really poor. The fact she is seen as a contender shows the dearth of talent left in the LDs.
    Swinson, Cable, Moran, and Farron are reminders of what relative giants Clegg, Kennedy and Ashdown were.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068
    GIN1138 said:

    The Great Brexit betrayal is coming according to The Sunday Times, Sir Graham Brady's postie is going to get a hernia.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/987791875041124354

    It will be the last thing she does (as PM) if she does.
    If it were "a five year agreement to stay in the customs union", then I suspect she'd survive.
  • Options

    On Spurs they went off at a pace but when playing a semi at Wembley it is not the best to do. United started to outplay them 25 minutes in but were very also good in defence throughout

    I did not know that is the eight cup semi Spurs have lost and this time on their home ground.

    You do wonder if Chelsea will catch them for fourth. I believe they have to play each other.

    Getting squeaky bum time maybe

    Nah. We won at the bridge a few weeks ago... 3 home games left out of 4....surely we can't stuff that up too...
    Depends on how they take the pressure. I hope not as Spurs have played wonderful football this year but it is just a bit uncertain now
    Sorry if I may have caused you concern. Spurs deserve champions league football this year.

    The trouble is when you have followed football for over 65 years you have seen many stranger things happen
    Southam usually appears at the end of season betting against spurs.. .. I've copied him this year and won consolation bets for both today and city last week... Doesn't help much... Just bet on saints tomorrow and Watford and Newcastle v spurs to come.... He'd approve I'm sure!!

    Won £100 today - United were an absurd 9-4 to win, so free money - and used £50 of it to top up on my Spurs finishing outside the top 4 position. Got 33-1 today, down from 100-1 a couple of weeks back. Am on to win just over £3,000 if it happens, thus making the choke slightly less unpleasant.

    Agreed re utd odds. I put 80 of my national winnings on with pp.... Watford are 16-1 next up vs us
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2018

    AndyJS said:

    Have ComRes published top-line voting intention figures tonight?

    I think it has been said there are no VI figures
    Okay. It would have been interesting if they had, to compare it to the latest YouGov.
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    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    GIN1138 said:

    The Great Brexit betrayal is coming according to The Sunday Times, Sir Graham Brady's postie is going to get a hernia.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/987791875041124354

    It will be the last thing she does (as PM) if she does.
    She won’t lose the Tory leadership over it. The question will be what happens if enough ultras from the ERG decide to vote with Labour in a vote of no confidence.

    As this would result in an election that would give Corbyn a healthy majority, it would rather raise the stakes.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,790
    Ishmael_Z said:


    Well, OK, but even explained like that, it's not a story from which the EU emerges looking all that good. And certainly not all that bright.

    The CFP wasn't good earlier, but two points in the EU's defence. Firstly the bulk of the overfishing and depletion of stocks happened before we joined the EU. Bad as the CFP was in the early days, it was still better than our management as an independent state. Secondly the more egregious aspects of the CFP were forced on the EU by member states, not least the UK.

    The main put point though is that they finally sorted the CFP out and it's not bad now.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048
    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    The Great Brexit betrayal is coming according to The Sunday Times, Sir Graham Brady's postie is going to get a hernia.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/987791875041124354

    It will be the last thing she does (as PM) if she does.
    If it were "a five year agreement to stay in the customs union", then I suspect she'd survive.
    Even that I think would be touch and go at best.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422
    GIN1138 said:

    The Great Brexit betrayal is coming according to The Sunday Times, Sir Graham Brady's postie is going to get a hernia.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/987791875041124354

    It will be the last thing she does (as PM) if she does.
    I'm not sure it will. It'll depend on what conditions come with it. The alternative is that come March next year, Britain is out of every FTA the EU has, bar those where the other signatory has agreed to roll it over. As yet, I don't think a single one has?

    The problems will come if there has to be significant and ongoing regulatory alignment, and if the ECJ is the sole arbiter of internal UK-EU disputes.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422
    RoyalBlue said:

    GIN1138 said:

    The Great Brexit betrayal is coming according to The Sunday Times, Sir Graham Brady's postie is going to get a hernia.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/987791875041124354

    It will be the last thing she does (as PM) if she does.
    She won’t lose the Tory leadership over it. The question will be what happens if enough ultras from the ERG decide to vote with Labour in a vote of no confidence.

    As this would result in an election that would give Corbyn a healthy majority, it would rather raise the stakes.
    They wouldn't and it wouldn't necessarily.

    If the Ultras voted against the government in a VoNC, they'd probably be expelled from the Conservative Party and, concomitantly, from the parliamentary group. That would leave them the option of joining a different party - UKIP, most likely - or forming their own. Neither would be particularly appealing in terms of electoral prospects.

    Assuming the VoNC carried, it would only result in a new election if no new government could be formed within two weeks. It is quite possible that a new Tory leader could form such a government.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422

    Brexit Minister:

    Parliament’s meaningful vote will *not* be a “take it or leave it”, opening up the possibility of a second referendum.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-second-referendum-eu-vote-theresa-may-mps-minister-steve-baker-a8313111.html

    I doubt that'll be the case, simply because of the time constraints. If the deal is voted down, it would open up the possibility of a second vote *in parliament*.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,426
    The more people see of Corbyn and his pals, the less they like. :lol:
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2018
    Just noticed this from a few months ago:

    "Lord Storey, 68, is Lib Dem young people's spokesman"
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41601876
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,368
    AndyJS said:
    If voting intention wasn't asked, how does he know?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068

    GIN1138 said:

    The Great Brexit betrayal is coming according to The Sunday Times, Sir Graham Brady's postie is going to get a hernia.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/987791875041124354

    It will be the last thing she does (as PM) if she does.
    I'm not sure it will. It'll depend on what conditions come with it. The alternative is that come March next year, Britain is out of every FTA the EU has, bar those where the other signatory has agreed to roll it over. As yet, I don't think a single one has?

    The problems will come if there has to be significant and ongoing regulatory alignment, and if the ECJ is the sole arbiter of internal UK-EU disputes.
    I've said it before, but it bears repeating, the Department for International Trade should have spent the last two years ensuring that we replicated the existing trade deals of the EU. instead, Dr Fox has spent his time in Washington chasing the chimera of an easy UK-US free trade deal.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,426
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    The Great Brexit betrayal is coming according to The Sunday Times, Sir Graham Brady's postie is going to get a hernia.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/987791875041124354

    It will be the last thing she does (as PM) if she does.
    I'm not sure it will. It'll depend on what conditions come with it. The alternative is that come March next year, Britain is out of every FTA the EU has, bar those where the other signatory has agreed to roll it over. As yet, I don't think a single one has?

    The problems will come if there has to be significant and ongoing regulatory alignment, and if the ECJ is the sole arbiter of internal UK-EU disputes.
    I've said it before, but it bears repeating, the Department for International Trade should have spent the last two years ensuring that we replicated the existing trade deals of the EU. instead, Dr Fox has spent his time in Washington chasing the chimera of an easy UK-US free trade deal.
    You haven't said it before, but Brexit was a huge error, wasn't it?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,426
    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    The Great Brexit betrayal is coming according to The Sunday Times, Sir Graham Brady's postie is going to get a hernia.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/987791875041124354

    It will be the last thing she does (as PM) if she does.
    I'm not sure it will. It'll depend on what conditions come with it. The alternative is that come March next year, Britain is out of every FTA the EU has, bar those where the other signatory has agreed to roll it over. As yet, I don't think a single one has?

    The problems will come if there has to be significant and ongoing regulatory alignment, and if the ECJ is the sole arbiter of internal UK-EU disputes.
    I've said it before, but it bears repeating, the Department for International Trade should have spent the last two years ensuring that we replicated the existing trade deals of the EU. instead, Dr Fox has spent his time in Washington chasing the chimera of an easy UK-US free trade deal.
    Yeh, but that would involve a load of work, as iirc there are 67 of them.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422

    AndyJS said:
    If voting intention wasn't asked, how does he know?
    Implied from approval figures?
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    kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456
    if there is a vote next week in commons on uk remaining in customs union and ten tory mps vote against government can anyone advise will this force government to remain in customs union. do the opposition have the numbers to force the governments hand
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    kjohnw said:

    if there is a vote next week in commons on uk remaining in customs union and ten tory mps vote against government can anyone advise will this force government to remain in customs union. do the opposition have the numbers to force the governments hand

    The EU won’t let us stay in without freedom of movement - it’s all baloney.
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    kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456
    TGOHF said:

    kjohnw said:

    if there is a vote next week in commons on uk remaining in customs union and ten tory mps vote against government can anyone advise will this force government to remain in customs union. do the opposition have the numbers to force the governments hand

    The EU won’t let us stay in without freedom of movement - it’s all baloney.
    i thought freedom of movement was just a requirement of the single market not the customs union?
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    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    TGOHF said:

    kjohnw said:

    if there is a vote next week in commons on uk remaining in customs union and ten tory mps vote against government can anyone advise will this force government to remain in customs union. do the opposition have the numbers to force the governments hand

    The EU won’t let us stay in without freedom of movement - it’s all baloney.
    That’s why it will be customs union and not Single Market.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    On Spurs they went off at a pace but when playing a semi at Wembley it is not the best to do. United started to outplay them 25 minutes in but were very also good in defence throughout

    I did not know that is the eight cup semi Spurs have lost and this time on their home ground.

    You do wonder if Chelsea will catch them for fourth. I believe they have to play each other.

    Getting squeaky bum time maybe

    Nah. We won at the bridge a few weeks ago... 3 home games left out of 4....surely we can't stuff that up too...
    Depends on how they take the pressure. I hope not as Spurs have played wonderful football this year but it is just a bit uncertain now
    Sorry if I may have caused you concern. Spurs deserve champions league football this year.

    The trouble is when you have followed football for over 65 years you have seen many stranger things happen
    Southam usually appears at the end of season betting against spurs.. .. I've copied him this year and won consolation bets for both today and city last week... Doesn't help much... Just bet on saints tomorrow and Watford and Newcastle v spurs to come.... He'd approve I'm sure!!

    Won £100 today - United were an absurd 9-4 to win, so free money - and used £50 of it to top up on my Spurs finishing outside the top 4 position. Got 33-1 today, down from 100-1 a couple of weeks back. Am on to win just over £3,000 if it happens, thus making the choke slightly less unpleasant.

    My eldest did an accumulator on footie today - staked 50p and won over £200

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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    RoyalBlue said:

    TGOHF said:

    kjohnw said:

    if there is a vote next week in commons on uk remaining in customs union and ten tory mps vote against government can anyone advise will this force government to remain in customs union. do the opposition have the numbers to force the governments hand

    The EU won’t let us stay in without freedom of movement - it’s all baloney.
    That’s why it will be customs union and not Single Market.
    Regulatory divergence within the UK then?
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    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    RoyalBlue said:

    GIN1138 said:

    The Great Brexit betrayal is coming according to The Sunday Times, Sir Graham Brady's postie is going to get a hernia.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/987791875041124354

    It will be the last thing she does (as PM) if she does.
    She won’t lose the Tory leadership over it. The question will be what happens if enough ultras from the ERG decide to vote with Labour in a vote of no confidence.

    As this would result in an election that would give Corbyn a healthy majority, it would rather raise the stakes.
    It's high stakes poker all round. Labour want an election, and don't want to commit to a specific Brexit position if possible. All Tory factions want no election, and differing Brexits. All Tory factions dislike May's negotiations on Brexit (probably including her), but they all fear an even worse (from whatever their perspective is) faction taking over from her instead of them. And all Tory factions fear an 'accidental' election if they trigger a leadership challenge.

    So if May disappoints you further at what point do the risks of losing a leadership challenge and/or causing (or merely being blamed for) another election defeat become outweighed by the downside in the status quo? Tricky decision, very tricky.
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    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    Charles said:

    Ed Balls on BBC playing the eukaleli and singing “when I’m cleaning windows”

    If you think that's how to spell "ukulele" then you should be beaten to death with a four-foot-long frozen-solid armadillo.

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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    Quincel said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    GIN1138 said:

    The Great Brexit betrayal is coming according to The Sunday Times, Sir Graham Brady's postie is going to get a hernia.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/987791875041124354

    It will be the last thing she does (as PM) if she does.
    She won’t lose the Tory leadership over it. The question will be what happens if enough ultras from the ERG decide to vote with Labour in a vote of no confidence.

    As this would result in an election that would give Corbyn a healthy majority, it would rather raise the stakes.
    It's high stakes poker all round. Labour want an election, and don't want to commit to a specific Brexit position if possible. All Tory factions want no election, and differing Brexits. All Tory factions dislike May's negotiations on Brexit (probably including her), but they all fear an even worse (from whatever their perspective is) faction taking over from her instead of them. And all Tory factions fear an 'accidental' election if they trigger a leadership challenge.

    So if May disappoints you further at what point do the risks of losing a leadership challenge and/or causing (or merely being blamed for) another election defeat become outweighed by the downside in the status quo? Tricky decision, very tricky.
    The Tories have a strong interest in a second referendum as a way either to get a mandate for the deal, or to abandon Brexit altogether.
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    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    (Previous thread) I went to Wikipedia to remind myself of where the Commonwealth Games have been hosted each time, and the other links led to other interesting things like the Francophone Games (which have been happening since 1989 and include countries such as Romania, Poland and Lithuania as well as Francophone countries) which include poetry, dance, singing, painting and sculpture as well as sports

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeux_de_la_Francophonie

    and the Lusophone Games (only three times so far) which includes the Portuguese-speaking countries (including India (because of Goa innit))

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusophony_Games

    The main practical benefit of the Commonwealth games is that it stops the Chinese from winning all of the gold medals in diving. No doubt the Franco- and Luso- Games also have similar parallel advantages in niche areas.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,978
    Anyhoo, enough of this political mithering. Let's focus on the important things.

    https://twitter.com/sdbernard/status/987371512226353152
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,029
    Quincel said:



    It's high stakes poker all round. Labour want an election, and don't want to commit to a specific Brexit position if possible. All Tory factions want no election, and differing Brexits. All Tory factions dislike May's negotiations on Brexit (probably including her), but they all fear an even worse (from whatever their perspective is) faction taking over from her instead of them. And all Tory factions fear an 'accidental' election if they trigger a leadership challenge.

    There's the script for episode 1 of the Netflix Yes Minister reboot.
This discussion has been closed.