The last time i had the misfortune of visiting one of those McDonald’s places it seemed rather expensive to me...
In recent years my childrenhave grown old enough to aquire an affection for McDonalds. I had managed to mainly avoid the place for about two decades, but I've come to see its charms. It is astomishingly cheap compared to almost any other experience of eating out with three children - a burger for 99p is amazing. It's less garish and shouty than it used to be - at least the one in Stretford is. And the quality of the food is - whisper it - not actually that bad. It's not a gourmet experience, of course, but at 99p for a burger you wouldn't expect it to be - but it's ok. And to be honest I'm tired of massive fuck-off burgers which you can't actually physically fit in your mouth, and need to be eaten with a knife and fork. There's something to be said for a burger which can be consumed as it's meant to be.
Obviously it wouldn't be where I'd choose to go if more exciting and adult venues were an option. But with three kids in tow - or, if you find yourself having to eat in an unfamiliar town whose culinary venues seem to be entirely unwelcoming-looking pubs or tired greasy spoon cafes - I'm looking at you, Rotherham and Flint - the golden arches can be a reassuring sight of knowing-what-you're-getting ok-ish food at a reasonable price.
The last time i had the misfortune of visiting one of those McDonald’s places it seemed rather expensive to me...
In recent years my childrenhave grown old enough to aquire an affection for McDonalds. I had managed to mainly avoid the place for about two decades, but I've come to see its charms. It is astomishingly cheap compared to almost any other experience of eating out with three children - a burger for 99p is amazing. It's less garish and shouty than it used to be - at least the one in Stretford is. And the quality of the food is - whisper it - not actually that bad. It's not a gourmet experience, of course, but at 99p for a burger you wouldn't expect it to be - but it's ok. And to be honest I'm tired of massive fuck-off burgers which you can't actually physically fit in your mouth, and need to be eaten with a knife and fork. There's something to be said for a burger which can be consumed as it's meant to be.
Obviously it wouldn't be where I'd choose to go if more exciting and adult venues were an option. But with three kids in tow - or, if you find yourself having to eat in an unfamiliar town whose culinary venues seem to be entirely unwelcoming-looking pubs or tired greasy spoon cafes - I'm looking at you, Rotherham and Flint - the golden arches can be a reassuring sight of knowing-what-you're-getting ok-ish food at a reasonable price.
Next you will be telling me KFC is worth a visit...
Joking aside I remember talking to an environment health persona while ago and they said despite the massive expansion, the franchise system, etc, McDonald’s is probably the best chain when it comes to quality control / same experience across all the restaurants.
The last time i had the misfortune of visiting one of those McDonald’s places it seemed rather expensive to me...
In recent years my childrenhave grown old enough to aquire an affection for McDonalds. I had managed to mainly avoid the place for about two decades, but I've come to see its charms. It is astomishingly cheap compared to almost any other experience of eating out with three children - a burger for 99p is amazing. It's less garish and shouty than it used to be - at least the one in Stretford is. And the quality of the food is - whisper it - not actually that bad. It's not a gourmet experience, of course, but at 99p for a burger you wouldn't expect it to be - but it's ok. And to be honest I'm tired of massive fuck-off burgers which you can't actually physically fit in your mouth, and need to be eaten with a knife and fork. There's something to be said for a burger which can be consumed as it's meant to be.
Obviously it wouldn't be where I'd choose to go if more exciting and adult venues were an option. But with three kids in tow - or, if you find yourself having to eat in an unfamiliar town whose culinary venues seem to be entirely unwelcoming-looking pubs or tired greasy spoon cafes - I'm looking at you, Rotherham and Flint - the golden arches can be a reassuring sight of knowing-what-you're-getting ok-ish food at a reasonable price.
Next you will be telling me KFC is worth a visit...
Joking aside I remember talking to an environment health persona while ago and they said despite the massive expansion, the franchise system, etc, McDonald’s is probably the best chain when it comes to quality control / same experience across all the restaurants.
The last time i had the misfortune of visiting one of those McDonald’s places it seemed rather expensive to me...
In recent years my childrenhave grown old enough to aquire an affection for McDonalds. I had managed to mainly avoid the place for about two decades, but I've come to see its charms. It is astomishingly cheap compared to almost any other experience of eating out with three children - a burger for 99p is amazing. It's less garish and shouty than it used to be - at least the one in Stretford is. And the quality of the food is - whisper it - not actually that bad. It's not a gourmet experience, of course, but at 99p for a burger you wouldn't expect it to be - but it's ok. And to be honest I'm tired of massive fuck-off burgers which you can't actually physically fit in your mouth, and need to be eaten with a knife and fork. There's something to be said for a burger which can be consumed as it's meant to be.
Obviously it wouldn't be where I'd choose to go if more exciting and adult venues were an option. But with three kids in tow - or, if you find yourself having to eat in an unfamiliar town whose culinary venues seem to be entirely unwelcoming-looking pubs or tired greasy spoon cafes - I'm looking at you, Rotherham and Flint - the golden arches can be a reassuring sight of knowing-what-you're-getting ok-ish food at a reasonable price.
Next you will be telling me KFC is worth a visit...
Joking aside I remember talking to an environment health persona while ago and they said despite the massive expansion, the franchise system, etc, McDonald’s is probably the best chain when it comes to quality control / same experience across all the restaurants.
McDonalds' coffee is often said to be as good or better than the well-known chains as well.
The last time i had the misfortune of visiting one of those McDonald’s places it seemed rather expensive to me...
In recent years my childrenhave grown old enough to aquire an affection for McDonalds. I had managed to mainly avoid the place for about two decades, but I've come to see its charms. It is astomishingly cheap compared to almost any other experience of eating out with three children - a burger for 99p is amazing. It's less garish and shouty than it used to be - at least the one in Stretford is. And the quality of the food is - whisper it - not actually that bad. It's not a gourmet experience, of course, but at 99p for a burger you wouldn't expect it to be - but it's ok. And to be honest I'm tired of massive fuck-off burgers which you can't actually physically fit in your mouth, and need to be eaten with a knife and fork. There's something to be said for a burger which can be consumed as it's meant to be.
Obviously it wouldn't be where I'd choose to go if more exciting and adult venues were an option. But with three kids in tow - or, if you find yourself having to eat in an unfamiliar town whose culinary venues seem to be entirely unwelcoming-looking pubs or tired greasy spoon cafes - I'm looking at you, Rotherham and Flint - the golden arches can be a reassuring sight of knowing-what-you're-getting ok-ish food at a reasonable price.
Next you will be telling me KFC is worth a visit...
Joking aside I remember talking to an environment health persona while ago and they said despite the massive expansion, the franchise system, etc, McDonald’s is probably the best chain when it comes to quality control / same experience across all the restaurants.
McDonalds' coffee is often said to be as good or better than the well-known chains as well.
Well as recent discussions have revealed that bar is very low....
I see McDonnell has now banned Labour MPs doing what him and Corbyn have done dozens of times: participating in Russia's state propaganda. I'm glad that political pressure has forced them to finally do the right thing, but interesting that they were happy to do it after the Litvinenko murder and the invasion of Ukraine and war crimes there.
The last time i had the misfortune of visiting one of those McDonald’s places it seemed rather expensive to me...
In recent years my childrenhave grown old enough to aquire an affection for McDonalds. I had managed to mainly avoid the place for about two decades, but I've come to see its charms. It is astomishingly cheap compared to almost any other experience of eating out with three children - a burger for 99p is amazing. It's less garish and shouty than it used to be - at least the one in Stretford is. And the quality of the food is - whisper it - not actually that bad. It's not a gourmet experience, of course, but at 99p for a burger you wouldn't expect it to be - but it's ok. And to be honest I'm tired of massive fuck-off burgers which you can't actually physically fit in your mouth, and need to be eaten with a knife and fork. There's something to be said for a burger which can be consumed as it's meant to be.
Obviously it wouldn't be where I'd choose to go if more exciting and adult venues were an option. But with three kids in tow - or, if you find yourself having to eat in an unfamiliar town whose culinary venues seem to be entirely unwelcoming-looking pubs or tired greasy spoon cafes - I'm looking at you, Rotherham and Flint - the golden arches can be a reassuring sight of knowing-what-you're-getting ok-ish food at a reasonable price.
Next you will be telling me KFC is worth a visit...
Joking aside I remember talking to an environment health persona while ago and they said despite the massive expansion, the franchise system, etc, McDonald’s is probably the best chain when it comes to quality control / same experience across all the restaurants.
Yep, the head office “brand standards” department is ruthless about dealing with franchisees when it comes to quality - random inspections, mystery shoppers etc. They know that any incidents can have a negative effect on the global brand. Often the cleanest restaurant in a random foreign city.
Random crappy restaurant ordered shut by environmental health inspectors doesn’t usually make the national news. It does if it’s a McDonalds.
I see McDonnell has now banned Labour MPs doing what him and Corbyn have done dozens of times: participating in Russia's state propaganda. I'm glad that political pressure has forced them to finally do the right thing, but interesting that they were happy to do it after the Litvinenko murder and the invasion of Ukraine and war crimes there.
Corbyn has already contradicted him, apparently
Bit like the tale of how ones finds themselves commenting in an extremist Facebook group...
I see McDonnell has now banned Labour MPs doing what him and Corbyn have done dozens of times: participating in Russia's state propaganda. I'm glad that political pressure has forced them to finally do the right thing, but interesting that they were happy to do it after the Litvinenko murder and the invasion of Ukraine and war crimes there.
Corbyn has already contradicted him, apparently
Bit like the tale of how ones finds themselves commenting in an extremist Facebook group...
The last time i had the misfortune of visiting one of those McDonald’s places it seemed rather expensive to me...
In recent years my childrenhave grown old enough to aquire an affection for McDonalds. I had managed to mainly avoid the place for about two decades, but I've come to see its charms. It is astomishingly cheap compared to almost any other experience of eating out with three children - a burger for 99p is amazing. It's less garish and shouty than it used to be - at least the one in Stretford is. And the quality of the food is - whisper it - not actually that bad. It's not a gourmet experience, of course, but at 99p for a burger you wouldn't expect it to be - but it's ok. And to be honest I'm tired of massive fuck-off burgers which you can't actually physically fit in your mouth, and need to be eaten with a knife and fork. There's something to be said for a burger which can be consumed as it's meant to be.
Obviously it wouldn't be where I'd choose to go if more exciting and adult venues were an option. But with three kids in tow - or, if you find yourself having to eat in an unfamiliar town whose culinary venues seem to be entirely unwelcoming-looking pubs or tired greasy spoon cafes - I'm looking at you, Rotherham and Flint - the golden arches can be a reassuring sight of knowing-what-you're-getting ok-ish food at a reasonable price.
Next you will be telling me KFC is worth a visit...
Joking aside I remember talking to an environment health persona while ago and they said despite the massive expansion, the franchise system, etc, McDonald’s is probably the best chain when it comes to quality control / same experience across all the restaurants.
Yep, the head office “brand standards” department is ruthless about dealing with franchisees when it comes to quality - random inspections, mystery shoppers etc. They know that any incidents can have a negative effect on the global brand. Often the cleanest restaurant in a random foreign city.
Random crappy restaurant ordered shut by environmental health inspectors doesn’t usually make the national news. It does if it’s a McDonalds.
Compare that with the history of Chipotle, they grew rapidly and had all sorts of issues with poor standards.
The last time i had the misfortune of visiting one of those McDonald’s places it seemed rather expensive to me...
In recent years my childrenhave grown old enough to aquire an affection for McDonalds. I had managed to mainly avoid the place for about two decades, but I've come to see its charms. It is astomishingly cheap compared to almost any other experience of eating out with three children - a burger for 99p is amazing. It's less garish and shouty than it used to be - at least the one in Stretford is. And the quality of the food is - whisper it - not actually that bad. It's not a gourmet experience, of course, but at 99p for a burger you wouldn't expect it to be - but it's ok. And to be honest I'm tired of massive fuck-off burgers which you can't actually physically fit in your mouth, and need to be eaten with a knife and fork. There's something to be said for a burger which can be consumed as it's meant to be.
Obviously it wouldn't be where I'd choose to go if more exciting and adult venues were an option. But with three kids in tow - or, if you find yourself having to eat in an unfamiliar town whose culinary venues seem to be entirely unwelcoming-looking pubs or tired greasy spoon cafes - I'm looking at you, Rotherham and Flint - the golden arches can be a reassuring sight of knowing-what-you're-getting ok-ish food at a reasonable price.
Macdonalds, Burger King, are both good at what they do.
The last time i had the misfortune of visiting one of those McDonald’s places it seemed rather expensive to me...
In recent years my childrenhave grown old enough to aquire an affection for McDonalds. I had managed to mainly avoid the place for about two decades, but I've come to see its charms. It is astomishingly cheap compared to almost any other experience of eating out with three children - a burger for 99p is amazing. It's less garish and shouty than it used to be - at least the one in Stretford is. And the quality of the food is - whisper it - not actually that bad. It's not a gourmet experience, of course, but at 99p for a burger you wouldn't expect it to be - but it's ok. And to be honest I'm tired of massive fuck-off burgers which you can't actually physically fit in your mouth, and need to be eaten with a knife and fork. There's something to be said for a burger which can be consumed as it's meant to be.
Obviously it wouldn't be where I'd choose to go if more exciting and adult venues were an option. But with three kids in tow - or, if you find yourself having to eat in an unfamiliar town whose culinary venues seem to be entirely unwelcoming-looking pubs or tired greasy spoon cafes - I'm looking at you, Rotherham and Flint - the golden arches can be a reassuring sight of knowing-what-you're-getting ok-ish food at a reasonable price.
Next you will be telling me KFC is worth a visit...
Joking aside I remember talking to an environment health persona while ago and they said despite the massive expansion, the franchise system, etc, McDonald’s is probably the best chain when it comes to quality control / same experience across all the restaurants.
Yep, the head office “brand standards” department is ruthless about dealing with franchisees when it comes to quality - random inspections, mystery shoppers etc. They know that any incidents can have a negative effect on the global brand. Often the cleanest restaurant in a random foreign city.
Random crappy restaurant ordered shut by environmental health inspectors doesn’t usually make the national news. It does if it’s a McDonalds.
Compare that with the history of Chipotle, they grew rapidly and had all sorts of issues with poor standards.
And Stephen Colbert *still* makes the occasional joke about ordering a Chipotle in New York and getting a free cockroach with it. Sometimes they run out of cockroaches and you get upgraded to a free mouse instead.
The last time i had the misfortune of visiting one of those McDonald’s places it seemed rather expensive to me...
In recent years my childrenhave grown old enough to aquire an affection for McDonalds. I had managed to mainly avoid the place for about two decades, but I've come to see its charms. It is astomishingly cheap compared to almost any other experience of eating out with three children - a burger for 99p is amazing. It's less garish and shouty than it used to be - at least the one in Stretford is. And the quality of the food is - whisper it - not actually that bad. It's not a gourmet experience, of course, but at 99p for a burger you wouldn't expect it to be - but it's ok. And to be honest I'm tired of massive fuck-off burgers which you can't actually physically fit in your mouth, and need to be eaten with a knife and fork. There's something to be said for a burger which can be consumed as it's meant to be.
Obviously it wouldn't be where I'd choose to go if more exciting and adult venues were an option. But with three kids in tow - or, if you find yourself having to eat in an unfamiliar town whose culinary venues seem to be entirely unwelcoming-looking pubs or tired greasy spoon cafes - I'm looking at you, Rotherham and Flint - the golden arches can be a reassuring sight of knowing-what-you're-getting ok-ish food at a reasonable price.
I see McDonnell has now banned Labour MPs doing what him and Corbyn have done dozens of times: participating in Russia's state propaganda. I'm glad that political pressure has forced them to finally do the right thing, but interesting that they were happy to do it after the Litvinenko murder and the invasion of Ukraine and war crimes there.
Corbyn has already contradicted him, apparently
Bit like the tale of how ones finds themselves commenting in an extremist Facebook group...
McDonnell announced live on Marr he would not appear on RT again
But McDonnell says anything he feels will be popular
I see McDonnell has now banned Labour MPs doing what him and Corbyn have done dozens of times: participating in Russia's state propaganda. I'm glad that political pressure has forced them to finally do the right thing, but interesting that they were happy to do it after the Litvinenko murder and the invasion of Ukraine and war crimes there.
Corbyn has already contradicted him, apparently
Bit like the tale of how ones finds themselves commenting in an extremist Facebook group...
A bit like how he stopped being paid by the Iranians... his last pay off was only a few years after they tortured, raped and slaughtered democracy protesters
The last time i had the misfortune of visiting one of those McDonald’s places it seemed rather expensive to me...
In recent years my childrenhave grown old enough to aquire an affection for McDonalds. I had managed to mainly avoid the place for about two decades, but I've come to see its charms. It is astomishingly cheap compared to almost any other experience of eating out with three children - a burger for 99p is amazing. It's less garish and shouty than it used to be - at least the one in Stretford is. And the quality of the food is - whisper it - not actually that bad. It's not a gourmet experience, of course, but at 99p for a burger you wouldn't expect it to be - but it's ok. And to be honest I'm tired of massive fuck-off burgers which you can't actually physically fit in your mouth, and need to be eaten with a knife and fork. There's something to be said for a burger which can be consumed as it's meant to be.
Obviously it wouldn't be where I'd choose to go if more exciting and adult venues were an option. But with three kids in tow - or, if you find yourself having to eat in an unfamiliar town whose culinary venues seem to be entirely unwelcoming-looking pubs or tired greasy spoon cafes - I'm looking at you, Rotherham and Flint - the golden arches can be a reassuring sight of knowing-what-you're-getting ok-ish food at a reasonable price.
Yes, McDonalds can be a guilty pleasure. I have a soft spot for an Egg McMuffin every now and again, and the coffee is decent too.
I fondly remember an eating contest as a student with 4 of us attempting to eat one of every menu item. It was quite hard work, and quite an endurance contest.
The last time i had the misfortune of visiting one of those McDonald’s places it seemed rather expensive to me...
In recent years my childrenhave grown old enough to aquire an affection for McDonalds. I had managed to mainly avoid the place for about two decades, but I've come to see its charms. It is astomishingly cheap compared to almost any other experience of eating out with three children - a burger for 99p is amazing. It's less garish and shouty than it used to be - at least the one in Stretford is. And the quality of the food is - whisper it - not actually that bad. It's not a gourmet experience, of course, but at 99p for a burger you wouldn't expect it to be - but it's ok. And to be honest I'm tired of massive fuck-off burgers which you can't actually physically fit in your mouth, and need to be eaten with a knife and fork. There's something to be said for a burger which can be consumed as it's meant to be.
Obviously it wouldn't be where I'd choose to go if more exciting and adult venues were an option. But with three kids in tow - or, if you find yourself having to eat in an unfamiliar town whose culinary venues seem to be entirely unwelcoming-looking pubs or tired greasy spoon cafes - I'm looking at you, Rotherham and Flint - the golden arches can be a reassuring sight of knowing-what-you're-getting ok-ish food at a reasonable price.
Yes, McDonalds can be a guilty pleasure. I have a soft spot for an Egg McMuffin every now and again, and the coffee is decent too.
I fondly remember an eating contest as a student with 4 of us attempting to eat one of every menu item. It was quite hard work, and quite an endurance contest.
For everyone including the winner it must have been a waist of time and money.
The last time i had the misfortune of visiting one of those McDonald’s places it seemed rather expensive to me...
In recent years my childrenhave grown old enough to aquire an affection for McDonalds. I had managed to mainly avoid the place for about two decades, but I've come to see its charms. It is astomishingly cheap compared to almost any other experience of eating out with three children - a burger for 99p is amazing. It's less garish and shouty than it used to be - at least the one in Stretford is. And the quality of the food is - whisper it - not actually that bad. It's not a gourmet experience, of course, but at 99p for a burger you wouldn't expect it to be - but it's ok. And to be honest I'm tired of massive fuck-off burgers which you can't actually physically fit in your mouth, and need to be eaten with a knife and fork. There's something to be said for a burger which can be consumed as it's meant to be.
Obviously it wouldn't be where I'd choose to go if more exciting and adult venues were an option. But with three kids in tow - or, if you find yourself having to eat in an unfamiliar town whose culinary venues seem to be entirely unwelcoming-looking pubs or tired greasy spoon cafes - I'm looking at you, Rotherham and Flint - the golden arches can be a reassuring sight of knowing-what-you're-getting ok-ish food at a reasonable price.
Yes, McDonalds can be a guilty pleasure. I have a soft spot for an Egg McMuffin every now and again, and the coffee is decent too.
I fondly remember an eating contest as a student with 4 of us attempting to eat one of every menu item. It was quite hard work, and quite an endurance contest.
For everyone including the winner it must have been a waist of time and money.
The last time i had the misfortune of visiting one of those McDonald’s places it seemed rather expensive to me...
In recent years my childrenhave grown old enough to aquire an affection for McDonalds. I had managed to mainly avoid the place for about two decades, but I've come to see its charms. It is astomishingly cheap compared to almost any other experience of eating out with three children - a burger for 99p is amazing. It's less garish and shouty than it used to be - at least the one in Stretford is. And the quality of the food is - whisper it - not actually that bad. It's not a gourmet experience, of course, but at 99p for a burger you wouldn't expect it to be - but it's ok. And to be honest I'm tired of massive fuck-off burgers which you can't actually physically fit in your mouth, and need to be eaten with a knife and fork. There's something to be said for a burger which can be consumed as it's meant to be.
Obviously it wouldn't be where I'd choose to go if more exciting and adult venues were an option. But with three kids in tow - or, if you find yourself having to eat in an unfamiliar town whose culinary venues seem to be entirely unwelcoming-looking pubs or tired greasy spoon cafes - I'm looking at you, Rotherham and Flint - the golden arches can be a reassuring sight of knowing-what-you're-getting ok-ish food at a reasonable price.
Yes, McDonalds can be a guilty pleasure. I have a soft spot for an Egg McMuffin every now and again, and the coffee is decent too.
I fondly remember an eating contest as a student with 4 of us attempting to eat one of every menu item. It was quite hard work, and quite an endurance contest.
For everyone including the winner it must have been a waist of time and money.
"Although the ban will impede the agency’s ability to reach some London commuters, it is also sending a bus wrapped with the “hot entrepreneur” ad on a tour of Bristol, Birmingham, Manchester, Cambridge and London later this month." Ironic.
The last time i had the misfortune of visiting one of those McDonald’s places it seemed rather expensive to me...
In recent years my childrenhave grown old enough to aquire an affection for McDonalds. I had managed to mainly avoid the place for about two decades, but I've come to see its charms. It is astomishingly cheap compared to almost any other experience of eating out with three children - a burger for 99p is amazing. It's less garish and shouty than it used to be - at least the one in Stretford is. And the quality of the food is - whisper it - not actually that bad. It's not a gourmet experience, of course, but at 99p for a burger you wouldn't expect it to be - but it's ok. And to be honest I'm tired of massive fuck-off burgers which you can't actually physically fit in your mouth, and need to be eaten with a knife and fork. There's something to be said for a burger which can be consumed as it's meant to be.
Obviously it wouldn't be where I'd choose to go if more exciting and adult venues were an option. But with three kids in tow - or, if you find yourself having to eat in an unfamiliar town whose culinary venues seem to be entirely unwelcoming-looking pubs or tired greasy spoon cafes - I'm looking at you, Rotherham and Flint - the golden arches can be a reassuring sight of knowing-what-you're-getting ok-ish food at a reasonable price.
Yes, McDonalds can be a guilty pleasure. I have a soft spot for an Egg McMuffin every now and again, and the coffee is decent too.
I fondly remember an eating contest as a student with 4 of us attempting to eat one of every menu item. It was quite hard work, and quite an endurance contest.
For everyone including the winner it must have been a waist of time and money.
Why do people keep handing me my coat?
Fat chance!
O blese!
While I did it in around 40 min, 30 years ago, this Lass seems pretty impressive.
A desperately disappointing speech by Vince Cable today. I had hoped after the Marr interview and one or two other remarks that there was going to be some movement in the LD position on Brexit.
Unfortunately, today was all about rhetoric which you might expect from a leader talking to a friendly crowd but any speech made by a LD leader has to resonate beyond the Conference. Today's will but negatively. I voted LEAVE and apparently I did so because I wanted a blue passport and yearned for a Britain of "white faces".
No.
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
So, yes, I do care about immigration but I care about the impact it has had both on the migrants and on the indigenous population. I care that the public services I pay for and use simply cannot cope with the influx of new arrivals and I care that my community has become prey to petty and indeed organised criminality because someone can simply arrive and say they are "looking for work".
The problem is the LDs aren't interested in any of that. Cable has distanced himself from a significant part of the voting electorate - it's all very well surrounding yourself with "youth" and one should always encourage political participation at all ages - with a nonsensical and unnecessary comment.
Perhaps he sees the LDs as some part of a broad alliance within and outside Parliament which will bring the whole A50 process to a halt.
The problem is that's wrong - yes, we have to question the negotiations and yes we should have a right to a final say on any Agreement brokered by May and Davis and that Agreement should be fully and carefully scrutinised both in Parliament and beyond. I'm all for that as indeed any democrat should be but ultimately we voted to leave the EU.
I'm happy to debate the how and on what terms and ask difficult questions because that's my right as a citizen but we took a democratic decision, rightly or wrongly.
"Although the ban will impede the agency’s ability to reach some London commuters, it is also sending a bus wrapped with the “hot entrepreneur” ad on a tour of Bristol, Birmingham, Manchester, Cambridge and London later this month." Ironic.
I wonder if it will have more success than this bus?
A desperately disappointing speech by Vince Cable today. I had hoped after the Marr interview and one or two other remarks that there was going to be some movement in the LD position on Brexit.
Unfortunately, today was all about rhetoric which you might expect from a leader talking to a friendly crowd but any speech made by a LD leader has to resonate beyond the Conference. Today's will but negatively. I voted LEAVE and apparently I did so because I wanted a blue passport and yearned for a Britain of "white faces".
No.
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
So, yes, I do care about immigration but I care about the impact it has had both on the migrants and on the indigenous population. I care that the public services I pay for and use simply cannot cope with the influx of new arrivals and I care that my community has become prey to petty and indeed organised criminality because someone can simply arrive and say they are "looking for work".
The problem is the LDs aren't interested in any of that. Cable has distanced himself from a significant part of the voting electorate - it's all very well surrounding yourself with "youth" and one should always encourage political participation at all ages - with a nonsensical and unnecessary comment.
Perhaps he sees the LDs as some part of a broad alliance within and outside Parliament which will bring the whole A50 process to a halt.
The problem is that's wrong - yes, we have to question the negotiations and yes we should have a right to a final say on any Agreement brokered by May and Davis and that Agreement should be fully and carefully scrutinised both in Parliament and beyond. I'm all for that as indeed any democrat should be but ultimately we voted to leave the EU.
I'm happy to debate the how and on what terms and ask difficult questions because that's my right as a citizen but we took a democratic decision, rightly or wrongly.
The LibDems would have a better leader in your good self.....
Jam then cream, purely for engineering reasons. Jam is grippier - hence it clings, to some extent, to the scone while you spread the cream on top of it. If you put the cream on first and attempt to spread the jam on top of it you just get a big gloopy mess, some of which ends up falling off the scone.
Jam then cream, purely for engineering reasons. Jam is grippier - hence it clings, to some extent, to the scone while you spread the cream on top of it. If you put the cream on first and attempt to spread the jam on top of it you just get a big gloopy mess, some of which ends up falling off the scone.
And how would a cookie know the best way to deal with a scone?
Jam then cream, purely for engineering reasons. Jam is grippier - hence it clings, to some extent, to the scone while you spread the cream on top of it. If you put the cream on first and attempt to spread the jam on top of it you just get a big gloopy mess, some of which ends up falling off the scone.
Poor engineering skills. That, or your cream is too warm.
A desperately disappointing speech by Vince Cable today. I had hoped after the Marr interview and one or two other remarks that there was going to be some movement in the LD position on Brexit.
Unfortunately, today was all about rhetoric which you might expect from a leader talking to a friendly crowd but any speech made by a LD leader has to resonate beyond the Conference. Today's will but negatively. I voted LEAVE and apparently I did so because I wanted a blue passport and yearned for a Britain of "white faces".
No.
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
So, yes, I do care about immigration but I care about the impact it has had both on the migrants and on the indigenous population. I care that the public services I pay for and use simply cannot cope with the influx of new arrivals and I care that my community has become prey to petty and indeed organised criminality because someone can simply arrive and say they are "looking for work".
The problem is the LDs aren't interested in any of that. Cable has distanced himself from a significant part of the voting electorate - it's all very well surrounding yourself with "youth" and one should always encourage political participation at all ages - with a nonsensical and unnecessary comment.
Perhaps he sees the LDs as some part of a broad alliance within and outside Parliament which will bring the whole A50 process to a halt.
The problem is that's wrong - yes, we have to question the negotiations and yes we should have a right to a final say on any Agreement brokered by May and Davis and that Agreement should be fully and carefully scrutinised both in Parliament and beyond. I'm all for that as indeed any democrat should be but ultimately we voted to leave the EU.
I'm happy to debate the how and on what terms and ask difficult questions because that's my right as a citizen but we took a democratic decision, rightly or wrongly.
Eloquent as always Stodge, and reflective of some of the reaons I voted Leave.
I will actually miss the maroon passport. But the colour of a passport isn't really a reason to vote one way or the other.
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
Since accession the peripheral states have all closed the gap on Germany, with the exception of Greece whose specific issues are well documented. The trend in population decline in some states was not impacted by joining the single market.
Why do you keep repeating the same claims long after they have been debunked?
We always have the most hideous arguments when we go for a cream tea at the Orchard. I'm a firm jam-then-cream guy, and Mrs J shows her foreignness by putting cream on and then jam.
As MM states below, this is an indication of poor engineering.
The little 'un made her (*) a Victoria sponge earlier, and it's just occurred to me that you never, ever put the cream on a sponge first. It's always jam and then cream. And if it's good enough for Queen Victoria, it's good enough for a pleb like me.
(*) Well, I did the easy work whilst he did the really hard work of licking the spoons.
Jam then cream, purely for engineering reasons. Jam is grippier - hence it clings, to some extent, to the scone while you spread the cream on top of it. If you put the cream on first and attempt to spread the jam on top of it you just get a big gloopy mess, some of which ends up falling off the scone.
Amazing. Every word of what you just said, was wrong.
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
Since accession the peripheral states have all closed the gap on Germany, with the exception of Greece whose specific issues are well documented. The trend in population decline in some states was not impacted by joining the single market.
Why do you keep repeating the same claims long after they have been debunked?
The “EU is terrible for Estonia” argument is one of the more bizarre Leaver myths. I have to assume it’s a kind of displaced antipathy to Eastern Europeans themselves, in which case perhaps Cable has a point.
A desperately disappointing speech by Vince Cable today. I had hoped after the Marr interview and one or two other remarks that there was going to be some movement in the LD position on Brexit.
Unfortunately, today was all about rhetoric which you might expect from a leader talking to a friendly crowd but any speech made by a LD leader has to resonate beyond the Conference. Today's will but negatively. I voted LEAVE and apparently I did so because I wanted a blue passport and yearned for a Britain of "white faces".
No.
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
So, yes, I do care about immigration but I care about the impact it has had both on the migrants and on the indigenous population. I care that the public services I pay for and use simply cannot cope with the influx of new arrivals and I care that my community has become prey to petty and indeed organised criminality because someone can simply arrive and say they are "looking for work".
The problem is the LDs aren't interested in any of that. Cable has distanced himself from a significant part of the voting electorate - it's all very well surrounding yourself with "youth" and one should always encourage political participation at all ages - with a nonsensical and unnecessary comment.
Perhaps he sees the LDs as some part of a broad alliance within and outside Parliament which will bring the whole A50 process to a halt.
The problem is that's wrong - yes, we have to question the negotiations and yes we should have a right to a final say on any Agreement brokered by May and Davis and that Agreement should be fully and carefully scrutinised both in Parliament and beyond. I'm all for that as indeed any democrat should be but ultimately we voted to leave the EU.
I'm happy to debate the how and on what terms and ask difficult questions because that's my right as a citizen but we took a democratic decision, rightly or wrongly.
The LibDems would have a better leader in your good self.....
A desperately disappointing speech by Vince Cable today. I had hoped after the Marr interview and one or two other remarks that there was going to be some movement in the LD position on Brexit.
Unfortunately, today was all about rhetoric which you might expect from a leader talking to a friendly crowd but any speech made by a LD leader has to resonate beyond the Conference. Today's will but negatively. I voted LEAVE and apparently I did so because I wanted a blue passport and yearned for a Britain of "white faces".
No.
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
So, yes, I do care about immigration but I care about the impact it has had both on the migrants and on the indigenous population. I care that the public services I pay for and use simply cannot cope with the influx of new arrivals and I care that my community has become prey to petty and indeed organised criminality because someone can simply arrive and say they are "looking for work".
The problem is the LDs aren't interested in any of that. Cable has distanced himself from a significant part of the voting electorate - it's all very well surrounding yourself with "youth" and one should always encourage political participation at all ages - with a nonsensical and unnecessary comment.
Perhaps he sees the LDs as some part of a broad alliance within and outside Parliament which will bring the whole A50 process to a halt.
The problem is that's wrong - yes, we have to question the negotiations and yes we should have a right to a final say on any Agreement brokered by May and Davis and that Agreement should be fully and carefully scrutinised both in Parliament and beyond. I'm all for that as indeed any democrat should be but ultimately we voted to leave the EU.
I'm happy to debate the how and on what terms and ask difficult questions because that's my right as a citizen but we took a democratic decision, rightly or wrongly.
I wasn't there, but Vince needs to be eased off into the sunset, like the slightly dotty old uncle who says offensive things but gets away with it due to age.
I am a fairly classic Centrist Dad, but find the current LD leadership very uninspired. The Corbynites are a bit bonkers but at least they have some fight in them and interest in issues other than Brexit.
Jam then cream, purely for engineering reasons. Jam is grippier - hence it clings, to some extent, to the scone while you spread the cream on top of it. If you put the cream on first and attempt to spread the jam on top of it you just get a big gloopy mess, some of which ends up falling off the scone.
Amazing. Every word of what you just said, was wrong.
Oh hell, it's worse than I realised. There's somebody on here who likes The Last Jedi!
We always have the most hideous arguments when we go for a cream tea at the Orchard. I'm a firm jam-then-cream guy, and Mrs J shows her foreignness by putting cream on and then jam.
As MM states below, this is an indication of poor engineering.
The little 'un made her (*) a Victoria sponge earlier, and it's just occurred to me that you never, ever put the cream on a sponge first. It's always jam and then cream. And if it's good enough for Queen Victoria, it's good enough for a pleb like me.
(*) Well, I did the easy work whilst he did the really hard work of licking the spoons.
I wonder if the dispute was an inspiration for Gulliver's Travels.
' There are regional variations as to how a cream tea should preferably be eaten.
The Devonian (or Devonshire) method is to split the scone in two, cover each half with clotted cream, and then add strawberry jam on top. The Devon method is also commonly used in neighbouring counties and other Commonwealth countries.
With the Cornish method, the warm scone is first split in two, then spread with strawberry jam, and finally topped with a spoonful of clotted cream. This method is also commonly used elsewhere, notably in London. '
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
Since accession the peripheral states have all closed the gap on Germany, with the exception of Greece whose specific issues are well documented. The trend in population decline in some states was not impacted by joining the single market.
Why do you keep repeating the same claims long after they have been debunked?
The “EU is terrible for Estonia” argument is one of the more bizarre Leaver myths. I have to assume it’s a kind of displaced antipathy to Eastern Europeans themselves, in which case perhaps Cable has a point.
I see. So if I say that fishing nets endanger dolphins, that is probably because I secretly dislike dolphins?
"Closing the gap" on Germany is a lazy-looking metaphor. If it means increasing GDP per capita, that doesn't really answer a complaint of depopulation (that there aren't enough capita), nor that it doesn't matter how much GDP you've got if you can't get a plumber when you want one; and that's on top of the point that increases in GDP tend not to be evenly distributed.
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
Since accession the peripheral states have all closed the gap on Germany, with the exception of Greece whose specific issues are well documented. The trend in population decline in some states was not impacted by joining the single market.
Why do you keep repeating the same claims long after they have been debunked?
The “EU is terrible for Estonia” argument is one of the more bizarre Leaver myths. I have to assume it’s a kind of displaced antipathy to Eastern Europeans themselves, in which case perhaps Cable has a point.
Cable is merely exposing his own bigotry about Leave voters.
I don't know anybody who wants to return to the 1950s but I know plenty of people who want the present which we were promised and not the present of suburban shanty towns, slavery to criminal gangs and sweatshops for the benefit of tax dodging multinationals.
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
Since accession the peripheral states have all closed the gap on Germany, with the exception of Greece whose specific issues are well documented. The trend in population decline in some states was not impacted by joining the single market.
Why do you keep repeating the same claims long after they have been debunked?
The “EU is terrible for Estonia” argument is one of the more bizarre Leaver myths. I have to assume it’s a kind of displaced antipathy to Eastern Europeans themselves, in which case perhaps Cable has a point.
Cable is merely exposing his own bigotry about Leave voters.
I don't know anybody who wants to return to the 1950s but I know plenty of people who want the present which we were promised and not the present of suburban shanty towns, slavery to criminal gangs and sweatshops for the benefit of tax dodging multinationals.
One in three of the UK's top 100 restaurant groups are not making a profit, according to new research into the struggling casual dining sector.
Just a thought, perhaps there are too many of them....
I have a theory (bear with me).
The continued growth of Internet shopping has resulted in many traditional retail outlets leaving the High Street. This has freed up a lot of space, which has been filled by private equity backed firms all with the unique idea of a "A Class Burger Joint".
Fortunately, capitalism is a wonderful thing, and there will be a culling.
A lot of redundant retail space would be better used for residential purposes, especially that near town centres and railway stations.
Those retail units which go - bookies, coffee shop, tat shop, charity shop, pound shop, boarded up shop, takeaway - are of no real use and certainly no ornament.
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
Since accession the peripheral states have all closed the gap on Germany, with the exception of Greece whose specific issues are well documented. The trend in population decline in some states was not impacted by joining the single market.
Why do you keep repeating the same claims long after they have been debunked?
The “EU is terrible for Estonia” argument is one of the more bizarre Leaver myths. I have to assume it’s a kind of displaced antipathy to Eastern Europeans themselves, in which case perhaps Cable has a point.
Cable is merely exposing his own bigotry about Leave voters.
I don't know anybody who wants to return to the 1950s but I know plenty of people who want the present which we were promised and not the present of suburban shanty towns, slavery to criminal gangs and sweatshops for the benefit of tax dodging multinationals.
Can you name one of these suburban shanty towns?
' More action is being taken to destroy 'beds in sheds' and other illegal buildings in Hounslow than almost anywhere else in the country, new figures suggest.
Hounslow Council has issued 144 enforcement notices ordering the destruction of unlawful building work including so-called 'beds in sheds' during the last 12 months, according to the latest government statistics.
That is more than any local authority in England except Newham (451), Westminster (212) and Brent (193). '
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
Since accession the peripheral states have all closed the gap on Germany, with the exception of Greece whose specific issues are well documented. The trend in population decline in some states was not impacted by joining the single market.
Why do you keep repeating the same claims long after they have been debunked?
The “EU is terrible for Estonia” argument is one of the more bizarre Leaver myths. I have to assume it’s a kind of displaced antipathy to Eastern Europeans themselves, in which case perhaps Cable has a point.
Cable is merely exposing his own bigotry about Leave voters.
I don't know anybody who wants to return to the 1950s but I know plenty of people who want the present which we were promised and not the present of suburban shanty towns, slavery to criminal gangs and sweatshops for the benefit of tax dodging multinationals.
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
Since accession the peripheral states have all closed the gap on Germany, with the exception of Greece whose specific issues are well documented. The trend in population decline in some states was not impacted by joining the single market.
Why do you keep repeating the same claims long after they have been debunked?
The “EU is terrible for Estonia” argument is one of the more bizarre Leaver myths. I have to assume it’s a kind of displaced antipathy to Eastern Europeans themselves, in which case perhaps Cable has a point.
I see. So if I say that fishing nets endanger dolphins, that is probably because I secretly dislike dolphins?
"Closing the gap" on Germany is a lazy-looking metaphor. If it means increasing GDP per capita, that doesn't really answer a complaint of depopulation (that there aren't enough capita), nor that it doesn't matter how much GDP you've got if you can't get a plumber when you want one; and that's on top of the point that increases in GDP tend not to be evenly distributed.
If you keep making false claims about fishing nets and dolphins then yes, one tends to look for a underlying reason.
Anyway, are Eastern European countries complaining about depopulation or other economic phantoms put about by disingenuous Leavers? No. Case closed.
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
Since accession the peripheral states have all closed the gap on Germany, with the exception of Greece whose specific issues are well documented. The trend in population decline in some states was not impacted by joining the single market.
Why do you keep repeating the same claims long after they have been debunked?
The “EU is terrible for Estonia” argument is one of the more bizarre Leaver myths. I have to assume it’s a kind of displaced antipathy to Eastern Europeans themselves, in which case perhaps Cable has a point.
Cable is merely exposing his own bigotry about Leave voters.
I don't know anybody who wants to return to the 1950s but I know plenty of people who want the present which we were promised and not the present of suburban shanty towns, slavery to criminal gangs and sweatshops for the benefit of tax dodging multinationals.
Can you name one of these suburban shanty towns?
' Thirty-one migrants were found living in cramped conditions in a four bedroom house in north-west London.
Brent Council found 26 beds crammed into squalid conditions in the Wembley house, as well a bed in a rodent infested garden shack made from wood offcuts.
A total of 31 people were confirmed to be living there at the same time. Among them, a group of four tenants was found squashed into a box room on two bunk beds and six were found in another bedroom.
The tenants are all migrants, who said they could not afford to live anywhere else. '
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
Since accession the peripheral states have all closed the gap on Germany, with the exception of Greece whose specific issues are well documented. The trend in population decline in some states was not impacted by joining the single market.
Why do you keep repeating the same claims long after they have been debunked?
The “EU is terrible for Estonia” argument is one of the more bizarre Leaver myths. I have to assume it’s a kind of displaced antipathy to Eastern Europeans themselves, in which case perhaps Cable has a point.
Cable is merely exposing his own bigotry about Leave voters.
I don't know anybody who wants to return to the 1950s but I know plenty of people who want the present which we were promised and not the present of suburban shanty towns, slavery to criminal gangs and sweatshops for the benefit of tax dodging multinationals.
Can you name one of these suburban shanty towns?
' High street estate agents are renting out so-called "beds in sheds" without residential planning permission, a BBC investigation has found.
Inside Out caught two companies - Hunters and Milestone - offering sub-standard housing on behalf of landlords.
Receipts show Milestone, in Willesden Green, had let a garage without windows to a young family.
The firm claims to have nothing to do with the property.
When London councils began investigating this issue, it was common to see squalid shacks in back gardens, typically inhabited by numerous illegal immigrants.
A survey carried out by Brent Council turned up hundreds of outhouses built in this way.
...
But these cases are far from isolated.
Newham, Southwark and Ealing councils also described estate agents marketing garages and sheds that fail to meet the most basic legal requirements for habitation, such as windows.
Muhammed Butt, leader of Brent Council, admitted: "There are probably hundreds more properties we are missing. '
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
Since accession the peripheral states have all closed the gap on Germany, with the exception of Greece whose specific issues are well documented. The trend in population decline in some states was not impacted by joining the single market.
Why do you keep repeating the same claims long after they have been debunked?
The “EU is terrible for Estonia” argument is one of the more bizarre Leaver myths. I have to assume it’s a kind of displaced antipathy to Eastern Europeans themselves, in which case perhaps Cable has a point.
Cable is merely exposing his own bigotry about Leave voters.
I don't know anybody who wants to return to the 1950s but I know plenty of people who want the present which we were promised and not the present of suburban shanty towns, slavery to criminal gangs and sweatshops for the benefit of tax dodging multinationals.
Can you name one of these suburban shanty towns?
' More action is being taken to destroy 'beds in sheds' and other illegal buildings in Hounslow than almost anywhere else in the country, new figures suggest.
Hounslow Council has issued 144 enforcement notices ordering the destruction of unlawful building work including so-called 'beds in sheds' during the last 12 months, according to the latest government statistics.
That is more than any local authority in England except Newham (451), Westminster (212) and Brent (193). '
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
Since accession the peripheral states have all closed the gap on Germany, with the exception of Greece whose specific issues are well documented. The trend in population decline in some states was not impacted by joining the single market.
Why do you keep repeating the same claims long after they have been debunked?
The “EU is terrible for Estonia” argument is one of the more bizarre Leaver myths. I have to assume it’s a kind of displaced antipathy to Eastern Europeans themselves, in which case perhaps Cable has a point.
Cable is merely exposing his own bigotry about Leave voters.
I don't know anybody who wants to return to the 1950s but I know plenty of people who want the present which we were promised and not the present of suburban shanty towns, slavery to criminal gangs and sweatshops for the benefit of tax dodging multinationals.
Sounds very Corbynite, but yes people do not want slum housing, exploitative employers in the gig and casual economy and tax dodging multinational employers. None of those things are to do with the EU though it is always good to blame foreigners.
Net emigation is not incompatible with strong economic growth, as Eastern Europe is demonstrating, after all the UK had significant net migration throughout the post war period, and even as late as the eighties.
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
Since accession the peripheral states have all closed the gap on Germany, with the exception of Greece whose specific issues are well documented. The trend in population decline in some states was not impacted by joining the single market.
Why do you keep repeating the same claims long after they have been debunked?
The problem is the EU, as an entity, has done nothing to help the peripheral states like Romania, Bulgaria or even parts of Spain and Portugal which were ravaged by the global financial crisis.
A more thoughtful organisation would have channelled billions of euros to assist these regions in getting back on their feet but what happened (not just in Greece but in other areas) was the collapse of local industry and services left many forced to come to other parts of Europe looking for work.
This has fuelled the migration that has caused so many problems here and in other parts of Europe.
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
Since accession the peripheral states have all closed the gap on Germany, with the exception of Greece whose specific issues are well documented. The trend in population decline in some states was not impacted by joining the single market.
Why do you keep repeating the same claims long after they have been debunked?
The “EU is terrible for Estonia” argument is one of the more bizarre Leaver myths. I have to assume it’s a kind of displaced antipathy to Eastern Europeans themselves, in which case perhaps Cable has a point.
I see. So if I say that fishing nets endanger dolphins, that is probably because I secretly dislike dolphins?
"Closing the gap" on Germany is a lazy-looking metaphor. If it means increasing GDP per capita, that doesn't really answer a complaint of depopulation (that there aren't enough capita), nor that it doesn't matter how much GDP you've got if you can't get a plumber when you want one; and that's on top of the point that increases in GDP tend not to be evenly distributed.
If you keep making false claims about fishing nets and dolphins then yes, one tends to talk for a underlying reason.
Anyway, are Eastern European countries complaining about depopulation or other economic phantoms put about by disingenuous Leavers? No. Case closed.
I am not a Leaver, and perhaps the experience of being hit clear over the pavilion by another_richard at 7:14 will introduce you to the possibility that you don't win arguments by stipulating that the facts are as you wish them to be.
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
Since accession the peripheral states have all closed the gap on Germany, with the exception of Greece whose specific issues are well documented. The trend in population decline in some states was not impacted by joining the single market.
Why do you keep repeating the same claims long after they have been debunked?
The “EU is terrible for Estonia” argument is one of the more bizarre Leaver myths. I have to assume it’s a kind of displaced antipathy to Eastern Europeans themselves, in which case perhaps Cable has a point.
Cable is merely exposing his own bigotry about Leave voters.
I don't know anybody who wants to return to the 1950s but I know plenty of people who want the present which we were promised and not the present of suburban shanty towns, slavery to criminal gangs and sweatshops for the benefit of tax dodging multinationals.
Can you name one of these suburban shanty towns?
' More action is being taken to destroy 'beds in sheds' and other illegal buildings in Hounslow than almost anywhere else in the country, new figures suggest.
Hounslow Council has issued 144 enforcement notices ordering the destruction of unlawful building work including so-called 'beds in sheds' during the last 12 months, according to the latest government statistics.
That is more than any local authority in England except Newham (451), Westminster (212) and Brent (193). '
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
Since accession the peripheral states have all closed the gap on Germany, with the exception of Greece whose specific issues are well documented. The trend in population decline in some states was not impacted by joining the single market.
Why do you keep repeating the same claims long after they have been debunked?
The problem is the EU, as an entity, has done nothing to help the peripheral states like Romania, Bulgaria or even parts of Spain and Portugal which were ravaged by the global financial crisis.
A more thoughtful organisation would have channelled billions of euros to assist these regions in getting back on their feet but what happened (not just in Greece but in other areas) was the collapse of local industry and services left many forced to come to other parts of Europe looking for work.
This has fuelled the migration that has caused so many problems here and in other parts of Europe.
Utterly bonkers.
Ever heard of the European Regional Development Fund?
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
Since accession the peripheral states have all closed the gap on Germany, with the exception of Greece whose specific issues are well documented. The trend in population decline in some states was not impacted by joining the single market.
Why do you keep repeating the same claims long after they have been debunked?
The “EU is terrible for Estonia” argument is one of the more bizarre Leaver myths. I have to assume it’s a kind of displaced antipathy to Eastern Europeans themselves, in which case perhaps Cable has a point.
I see. So if I say that fishing nets endanger dolphins, that is probably because I secretly dislike dolphins?
"Closing the gap" on Germany is a lazy-looking metaphor. If it means increasing GDP per capita, that doesn't really answer a complaint of depopulation (that there aren't enough capita), nor that it doesn't matter how much GDP you've got if you can't get a plumber when you want one; and that's on top of the point that increases in GDP tend not to be evenly distributed.
If you keep making false claims about fishing nets and dolphins then yes, one tends to look for a underlying reason.
Anyway, are Eastern European countries complaining about depopulation or other economic phantoms put about by disingenuous Leavers? No. Case closed.
Of course it is Latvia where other very major problems remain unconnected to the EU. But it is an Eastern European country complaining about depopulation.
I hear similar things from a Bulgarian of my acquaintance.
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
Since accession the peripheral states have all closed the gap on Germany, with the exception of Greece whose specific issues are well documented. The trend in population decline in some states was not impacted by joining the single market.
Why do you keep repeating the same claims long after they have been debunked?
The “EU is terrible for Estonia” argument is one of the more bizarre Leaver myths. I have to assume it’s a kind of displaced antipathy to Eastern Europeans themselves, in which case perhaps Cable has a point.
Cable is merely exposing his own bigotry about Leave voters.
I don't know anybody who wants to return to the 1950s but I know plenty of people who want the present which we were promised and not the present of suburban shanty towns, slavery to criminal gangs and sweatshops for the benefit of tax dodging multinationals.
Can you name one of these suburban shanty towns?
' More action is being taken to destroy 'beds in sheds' and other illegal buildings in Hounslow than almost anywhere else in the country, new figures suggest.
Hounslow Council has issued 144 enforcement notices ordering the destruction of unlawful building work including so-called 'beds in sheds' during the last 12 months, according to the latest government statistics.
That is more than any local authority in England except Newham (451), Westminster (212) and Brent (193). '
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
Since accession the peripheral states have all closed the gap on Germany, with the exception of Greece whose specific issues are well documented. The trend in population decline in some states was not impacted by joining the single market.
Why do you keep repeating the same claims long after they have been debunked?
The “EU is terrible for Estonia” argument is one of the more bizarre Leaver myths. I have to assume it’s a kind of displaced antipathy to Eastern Europeans themselves, in which case perhaps Cable has a point.
I see. So if I say that fishing nets endanger dolphins, that is probably because I secretly dislike dolphins?
"Closing the gap" on Germany is a lazy-looking metaphor. If it means increasing GDP per capita, that doesn't really answer a complaint of depopulation (that there aren't enough capita), nor that it doesn't matter how much GDP you've got if you can't get a plumber when you want one; and that's on top of the point that increases in GDP tend not to be evenly distributed.
If you keep making false claims about fishing nets and dolphins then yes, one tends to talk for a underlying reason.
Anyway, are Eastern European countries complaining about depopulation or other economic phantoms put about by disingenuous Leavers? No. Case closed.
I am not a Leaver, and perhaps the experience of being hit clear over the pavilion by another_richard at 7:14 will introduce you to the possibility that you don't win arguments by stipulating that the facts are as you wish them to be.
I'll raise you East Ham in Newham if you want. I've spoken to housing officers in the Borough and the Mayor himself has admitted 3-bedroom semi-detached properties with 20 or more inhabitants are "commonplace".
The problem is regrettably private landlords who see migrants as a licence to print money. They extend into loft space to create extra accommodation as well as using outbuildings as dwellings (I can see four from my bedroom window).
Newham Council's planning department are hopelessly under-resourced trying to control this and even though anyone wanting to become a landlord has to have a licence from the Council (and that's a useful money-spinner for Newham) there seems no resourcing for enforcement.
There are 24,000 private landlords licenced in Newham at £400 per time.
Over 40% of the population lives in the private rented sector (how accurate that figure is no one knows).
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
Since accession the peripheral states have all closed the gap on Germany, with the exception of Greece whose specific issues are well documented. The trend in population decline in some states was not impacted by joining the single market.
Why do you keep repeating the same claims long after they have been debunked?
The problem is the EU, as an entity, has done nothing to help the peripheral states like Romania, Bulgaria or even parts of Spain and Portugal which were ravaged by the global financial crisis.
A more thoughtful organisation would have channelled billions of euros to assist these regions in getting back on their feet but what happened (not just in Greece but in other areas) was the collapse of local industry and services left many forced to come to other parts of Europe looking for work.
This has fuelled the migration that has caused so many problems here and in other parts of Europe.
“I pity the poor immigrant who is forced to live next door to me instead of staying in his hometown where he belongs.”
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
Since accession the peripheral states have all closed the gap on Germany, with the exception of Greece whose specific issues are well documented. The trend in population decline in some states was not impacted by joining the single market.
Why do you keep repeating the same claims long after they have been debunked?
The “EU is terrible for Estonia” argument is one of the more bizarre Leaver myths. I have to assume it’s a kind of displaced antipathy to Eastern Europeans themselves, in which case perhaps Cable has a point.
Cable is merely exposing his own bigotry about Leave voters.
I don't know anybody who wants to return to the 1950s but I know plenty of people who want the present which we were promised and not the present of suburban shanty towns, slavery to criminal gangs and sweatshops for the benefit of tax dodging multinationals.
Sounds very Corbynite, but yes people do not want slum housing, exploitative employers in the gig and casual economy and tax dodging multinational employers. None of those things are to do with the EU though it is always good to blame foreigners.
Net emigation is not incompatible with strong economic growth, as Eastern Europe is demonstrating, after all the UK had significant net migration throughout the post war period, and even as late as the eighties.
There a difference between economic growth and economic growth per head.
Increasing the former while reducing the latter does not make a country successful.
Perhaps he sees the LDs as some part of a broad alliance within and outside Parliament which will bring the whole A50 process to a halt.
The problem is that's wrong - yes, we have to question the negotiations and yes we should have a right to a final say on any Agreement brokered by May and Davis and that Agreement should be fully and carefully scrutinised both in Parliament and beyond. I'm all for that as indeed any democrat should be but ultimately we voted to leave the EU.
I'm happy to debate the how and on what terms and ask difficult questions because that's my right as a citizen but we took a democratic decision, rightly or wrongly.
I wasn't there, but Vince needs to be eased off into the sunset, like the slightly dotty old uncle who says offensive things but gets away with it due to age.
I am a fairly classic Centrist Dad, but find the current LD leadership very uninspired. The Corbynites are a bit bonkers but at least they have some fight in them and interest in issues other than Brexit.
Yes, good post stodge and I am coming to the same view. If the only reaction Vince can get is about white faces, then I think we have to move on sooner rather than later. We need elderly voters to go with us to hold our council ward in May and this will not help.
If I was him, making the Brexit-focussed speech, it would all be about COMPLEXITY. People who voted for a simpler set of rules, but instead exposing Britain to the most complex set of negotiations we've done in generations, where the price of walking away is too high for anyone serious involved to contemplate. We don't support Brexit but it is time to simplify Government and get out of people's lives, here are my top 10 ideas...........
I think that would have made the same points but in a way that would have avoided the negatives coming out. I see a reference to Layla Moran below- although she's only been in parliament 8 months she would definitely get my vote if she runs. Smarty, savvy, instinctive. I think we need to move a generation, and have my concerns over Jo Swinson - I get the feeling the top policies under Jo would be transgender bathrooms & gender neutral school uniforms, and that's far too narrow a platform to be a leading part of the national conversation from.
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
Since accession the peripheral states have all closed the gap on Germany, with the exception of Greece whose specific issues are well documented. The trend in population decline in some states was not impacted by joining the single market.
Why do you keep repeating the same claims long after they have been debunked?
The “EU is terrible for Estonia” argument is one of the more bizarre Leaver myths. I have to assume it’s a kind of displaced antipathy to Eastern Europeans themselves, in which case perhaps Cable has a point.
I see. So if I say that fishing nets endanger dolphins, that is probably because I secretly dislike dolphins?
"Closing the gap" on Germany is a lazy-looking metaphor. If it means increasing GDP per capita, that doesn't really answer a complaint of depopulation (that there aren't enough capita), nor that it doesn't matter how much GDP you've got if you can't get a plumber when you want one; and that's on top of the point that increases in GDP tend not to be evenly distributed.
If you keep making false claims about fishing nets and dolphins then yes, one tends to look for a underlying reason.
Anyway, are Eastern European countries complaining about depopulation or other economic phantoms put about by disingenuous Leavers? No. Case closed.
Of course it is Latvia where other very major problems remain unconnected to the EU. But it is an Eastern European country complaining about depopulation.
I hear similar things from a Bulgarian of my acquaintance.
I’m sorry, but an article talking about Latvia’s falling population (a problem not unique to Latvia) and some bloke down the pub is not a rebuttal. If FOM was such an existential threat, one would think the U.K. might have found allies in its attempts to amend it. But far from it.
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
Since accession the peripheral states have all closed the gap on Germany, with the exception of Greece whose specific issues are well documented. The trend in population decline in some states was not impacted by joining the single market.
Why do you keep repeating the same claims long after they have been debunked?
The “EU is terrible for Estonia” argument is one of the more bizarre Leaver myths. I have to assume it’s a kind of displaced antipathy to Eastern Europeans themselves, in which case perhaps Cable has a point.
Cable is merely exposing his own bigotry about Leave voters.
I don't know anybody who wants to return to the 1950s but I know plenty of people who want the present which we were promised and not the present of suburban shanty towns, slavery to criminal gangs and sweatshops for the benefit of tax dodging multinationals.
Sounds very Corbynite, but yes people do not want slum housing, exploitative employers in the gig and casual economy and tax dodging multinational employers. None of those things are to do with the EU though it is always good to blame foreigners.
Net emigation is not incompatible with strong economic growth, as Eastern Europe is demonstrating, after all the UK had significant net migration throughout the post war period, and even as late as the eighties.
There a difference between economic growth and economic growth per head.
Increasing the former while reducing the latter does not make a country successful.
Yes, and Eastern Europe has done well on both counts - some better than others for sure.
Of course it is Latvia where other very major problems remain unconnected to the EU. But it is an Eastern European country complaining about depopulation.
I hear similar things from a Bulgarian of my acquaintance.
I’m sorry, but an article talking about Latvia’s falling population (a problem not unique to Latvia) and some bloke down the pub is not a rebuttal. If FOM was such an existential threat, one would think the U.K. might have found allies in its attempts to amend it. But far from it.
He isn't a bloke down the pub. Or at least, if I see him in a pub I would be obliged to notify the Deputy Head as that would be a safeguarding matter (underage drinking). It is of course an amusing irony he and I are both aware of that he is commenting on depopulation in Bulgaria while he is here causing, er, depopulation.
Your claim was that no East European countries are complaining of depopulation and the purpose of my post was to point out this is not true. To what extent that is the fault of the EU is a different question and a valid discussion to have but it is an issue.
An important thing about the immigration issue is its regressive nature.
The further up the socioeconomic scale people are the more likely they are to experience the positives of immigration and the less likely to feel the negatives.
Now compare with finances and taxation where most accept that the richer you are not only should you pay more tax but also pay a higher proportion of your income and wealth in tax.
It would be interesting to see what effect moving the entire 'bed in sheds' population from Newham to Twickenham would have on Vince Cable's views and that of his voters.
I'll raise you East Ham in Newham if you want. I've spoken to housing officers in the Borough and the Mayor himself has admitted 3-bedroom semi-detached properties with 20 or more inhabitants are "commonplace".
The problem is regrettably private landlords who see migrants as a licence to print money. They extend into loft space to create extra accommodation as well as using outbuildings as dwellings (I can see four from my bedroom window).
Newham Council's planning department are hopelessly under-resourced trying to control this and even though anyone wanting to become a landlord has to have a licence from the Council (and that's a useful money-spinner for Newham) there seems no resourcing for enforcement.
There are 24,000 private landlords licenced in Newham at £400 per time.
Over 40% of the population lives in the private rented sector (how accurate that figure is no one knows).
Stodge, it sounds like you are much closer to the problem than most. To be clear, I agree the relevant councils are ridiculously under-resources to deal with this.
But putting that aside, I just think it’s disingenous to add the complaint that the EU is depopulating Eastern Europe amongst its other evils.
Of course it is Latvia where other very major problems remain unconnected to the EU. But it is an Eastern European country complaining about depopulation.
I hear similar things from a Bulgarian of my acquaintance.
I’m sorry, but an article talking about Latvia’s falling population (a problem not unique to Latvia) and some bloke down the pub is not a rebuttal. If FOM was such an existential threat, one would think the U.K. might have found allies in its attempts to amend it. But far from it.
He isn't a bloke down the pub. Or at least, if I see him in a pub I would be obliged to notify the Deputy Head as that would be a safeguarding matter (underage drinking). It is of course an amusing irony he and I are both aware of that he is commenting on depopulation in Bulgaria while he is here causing, er, depopulation.
Your claim was that no East European countries are complaining of depopulation and the purpose of my post was to point out this is not true. To what extent that is the fault of the EU is a different question and a valid discussion to have but it is an issue.
@ydoethur, you’re one of my favourite posters and it pissed me off when you went Leave.
The point I am trying to make is not that countries are not depopulating. All sorts of places are depopulating. I imagine much of rural Europe continues to do so. The article you cited talks about people moving to Riga for example.
What I am trying to say is, this is a silly argument for Leavers to make. On the simple grounds that most enthusiastic supporters of FOM seem to be those very Eastern European states that are losing their talent to us.
Re Bercow - has it been noted that if he retires and goes to the Lords there will be a by-election which Con will have to win to retain their current working majority of 13. If Con loses the by-election the majority is down to 11.
Note it doesn't matter who the next Speaker is - Con and Lab both have to supply two Speaker / Deputy Speakers. If, eg, Harriet Harman becomes Speaker then one of Lindsay Hoyle / Rosie Winterton will give up being Deputy Speaker and return to being a voting Lab MP and Con will have to provide another Deputy Speaker to join Eleanor Laing.
Surely the last thing TMay will want is a risky by-election - however safe the seat might look - remember how well the LDs did in Witney after Cameron retired.
Comments
Obviously it wouldn't be where I'd choose to go if more exciting and adult venues were an option. But with three kids in tow - or, if you find yourself having to eat in an unfamiliar town whose culinary venues seem to be entirely unwelcoming-looking pubs or tired greasy spoon cafes - I'm looking at you, Rotherham and Flint - the golden arches can be a reassuring sight of knowing-what-you're-getting ok-ish food at a reasonable price.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/golf/golf-course-north-koreas-leader-11325632
Joking aside I remember talking to an environment health persona while ago and they said despite the massive expansion, the franchise system, etc, McDonald’s is probably the best chain when it comes to quality control / same experience across all the restaurants.
Of course KFC is worth a visit.
Just remember to bring your own chicken.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ftw/2018/01/30/6-people-who-have-accused-donald-trump-of-cheating-at-golf/109934954/
Random crappy restaurant ordered shut by environmental health inspectors doesn’t usually make the national news. It does if it’s a McDonalds.
Many on this board have very fine arses (@JackW's is of course peerless) and even though mine is nothing special I am very attached to it.
Corbyn and Trump, on the other cheek...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-420940/McDonalds-forced-shut-lack-patronage-healthy-town.html
But McDonnell says anything he feels will be popular
I fondly remember an eating contest as a student with 4 of us attempting to eat one of every menu item. It was quite hard work, and quite an endurance contest.
Why do people keep handing me my coat?
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/tories-break-theresa-mays-vow-to-ban-russian-donors-glp2bl7cm
Ironic.
https://youtu.be/nQUKBpD839E
The ad played was Sennakot, can't think why!
Cornish scone lovers react with fury after ad shows the tasty treat with CREAM on first instead of jam
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5487929/Cornish-people-furious-ad-shows-scone-cream-jam.html
A desperately disappointing speech by Vince Cable today. I had hoped after the Marr interview and one or two other remarks that there was going to be some movement in the LD position on Brexit.
Unfortunately, today was all about rhetoric which you might expect from a leader talking to a friendly crowd but any speech made by a LD leader has to resonate beyond the Conference. Today's will but negatively. I voted LEAVE and apparently I did so because I wanted a blue passport and yearned for a Britain of "white faces".
No.
I actually voted LEAVE because a) the EU had become a fundamentally illiberal organisation seemingly incapable and unwilling to be reformed, b) the pernicious Single Market had abetted the depopulation and pauperisation of the peripheries and c) the consequences of the Single Market have been to create a new generation of slums in London as well as a flourishing black economy and intolerable pressure on public services.
So, yes, I do care about immigration but I care about the impact it has had both on the migrants and on the indigenous population. I care that the public services I pay for and use simply cannot cope with the influx of new arrivals and I care that my community has become prey to petty and indeed organised criminality because someone can simply arrive and say they are "looking for work".
The problem is the LDs aren't interested in any of that. Cable has distanced himself from a significant part of the voting electorate - it's all very well surrounding yourself with "youth" and one should always encourage political participation at all ages - with a nonsensical and unnecessary comment.
Perhaps he sees the LDs as some part of a broad alliance within and outside Parliament which will bring the whole A50 process to a halt.
The problem is that's wrong - yes, we have to question the negotiations and yes we should have a right to a final say on any Agreement brokered by May and Davis and that Agreement should be fully and carefully scrutinised both in Parliament and beyond. I'm all for that as indeed any democrat should be but ultimately we voted to leave the EU.
I'm happy to debate the how and on what terms and ask difficult questions because that's my right as a citizen but we took a democratic decision, rightly or wrongly.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-43155472
Yes - sucking up to anti Western regimes and groups does seem to be his thing
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43364931
https://twitter.com/ajcdeane/status/972899872759275521
Next you'll be telling us you like pineapple on pizza.
I will actually miss the maroon passport. But the colour of a passport isn't really a reason to vote one way or the other.
Why do you keep repeating the same claims long after they have been debunked?
As MM states below, this is an indication of poor engineering.
The little 'un made her (*) a Victoria sponge earlier, and it's just occurred to me that you never, ever put the cream on a sponge first. It's always jam and then cream. And if it's good enough for Queen Victoria, it's good enough for a pleb like me.
(*) Well, I did the easy work whilst he did the really hard work of licking the spoons.
I am a fairly classic Centrist Dad, but find the current LD leadership very uninspired. The Corbynites are a bit bonkers but at least they have some fight in them and interest in issues other than Brexit.
' There are regional variations as to how a cream tea should preferably be eaten.
The Devonian (or Devonshire) method is to split the scone in two, cover each half with clotted cream, and then add strawberry jam on top. The Devon method is also commonly used in neighbouring counties and other Commonwealth countries.
With the Cornish method, the warm scone is first split in two, then spread with strawberry jam, and finally topped with a spoonful of clotted cream. This method is also commonly used elsewhere, notably in London. '
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cream_tea
"Closing the gap" on Germany is a lazy-looking metaphor. If it means increasing GDP per capita, that doesn't really answer a complaint of depopulation (that there aren't enough capita), nor that it doesn't matter how much GDP you've got if you can't get a plumber when you want one; and that's on top of the point that increases in GDP tend not to be evenly distributed.
I don't know anybody who wants to return to the 1950s but I know plenty of people who want the present which we were promised and not the present of suburban shanty towns, slavery to criminal gangs and sweatshops for the benefit of tax dodging multinationals.
Those retail units which go - bookies, coffee shop, tat shop, charity shop, pound shop, boarded up shop, takeaway - are of no real use and certainly no ornament.
Hounslow Council has issued 144 enforcement notices ordering the destruction of unlawful building work including so-called 'beds in sheds' during the last 12 months, according to the latest government statistics.
That is more than any local authority in England except Newham (451), Westminster (212) and Brent (193). '
https://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/local-news/beds-sheds-crackdown-leads-action-7827856
Anyway, are Eastern European countries complaining about depopulation or other economic phantoms put about by disingenuous Leavers? No. Case closed.
Brent Council found 26 beds crammed into squalid conditions in the Wembley house, as well a bed in a rodent infested garden shack made from wood offcuts.
A total of 31 people were confirmed to be living there at the same time. Among them, a group of four tenants was found squashed into a box room on two bunk beds and six were found in another bedroom.
The tenants are all migrants, who said they could not afford to live anywhere else. '
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/thirtyone-migrants-crammed-into-four-bedroom-london-house-a3305391.html
Inside Out caught two companies - Hunters and Milestone - offering sub-standard housing on behalf of landlords.
Receipts show Milestone, in Willesden Green, had let a garage without windows to a young family.
The firm claims to have nothing to do with the property.
When London councils began investigating this issue, it was common to see squalid shacks in back gardens, typically inhabited by numerous illegal immigrants.
A survey carried out by Brent Council turned up hundreds of outhouses built in this way.
...
But these cases are far from isolated.
Newham, Southwark and Ealing councils also described estate agents marketing garages and sheds that fail to meet the most basic legal requirements for habitation, such as windows.
Muhammed Butt, leader of Brent Council, admitted: "There are probably hundreds more properties we are missing. '
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-21574772
There are no favelas in London, and I’ve no idea why you’d suggest otherwise.
Net emigation is not incompatible with strong economic growth, as Eastern Europe is demonstrating, after all the UK had significant net migration throughout the post war period, and even as late as the eighties.
A more thoughtful organisation would have channelled billions of euros to assist these regions in getting back on their feet but what happened (not just in Greece but in other areas) was the collapse of local industry and services left many forced to come to other parts of Europe looking for work.
This has fuelled the migration that has caused so many problems here and in other parts of Europe.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/tens-of-thousands-of-people-living-in-beds-in-sheds-across-the-capital-report-shows-a3723786.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4956988/Shanty-town-Britain-Shameful-beds-sheds.html
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jun/25/overcrowding-housing-raid-26-living-three-bedroom-east-london
There's plenty. 144 enforcement notices are most likely the tip of the iceberg.
Ever heard of the European Regional Development Fund?
https://www.politico.eu/article/latvia-a-disappearing-nation-migration-population-decline/
Of course it is Latvia where other very major problems remain unconnected to the EU. But it is an Eastern European country complaining about depopulation.
I hear similar things from a Bulgarian of my acquaintance.
Do you think this sort of thing was happening twenty years ago ?
I’ve been living in London for 20 years and who knew it was such a jungle out there?
There have always been slum landlords. Remember Peter Rachman?
I'll raise you East Ham in Newham if you want. I've spoken to housing officers in the Borough and the Mayor himself has admitted 3-bedroom semi-detached properties with 20 or more inhabitants are "commonplace".
The problem is regrettably private landlords who see migrants as a licence to print money. They extend into loft space to create extra accommodation as well as using outbuildings as dwellings (I can see four from my bedroom window).
Newham Council's planning department are hopelessly under-resourced trying to control this and even though anyone wanting to become a landlord has to have a licence from the Council (and that's a useful money-spinner for Newham) there seems no resourcing for enforcement.
There are 24,000 private landlords licenced in Newham at £400 per time.
Over 40% of the population lives in the private rented sector (how accurate that figure is no one knows).
Increasing the former while reducing the latter does not make a country successful.
If I was him, making the Brexit-focussed speech, it would all be about COMPLEXITY. People who voted for a simpler set of rules, but instead exposing Britain to the most complex set of negotiations we've done in generations, where the price of walking away is too high for anyone serious involved to contemplate. We don't support Brexit but it is time to simplify Government and get out of people's lives, here are my top 10 ideas...........
I think that would have made the same points but in a way that would have avoided the negatives coming out. I see a reference to Layla Moran below- although she's only been in parliament 8 months she would definitely get my vote if she runs. Smarty, savvy, instinctive. I think we need to move a generation, and have my concerns over Jo Swinson - I get the feeling the top policies under Jo would be transgender bathrooms & gender neutral school uniforms, and that's far too narrow a platform to be a leading part of the national conversation from.
I said "massively multi-occupancy housing", not "multi-occupancy massive housing"
Your claim was that no East European countries are complaining of depopulation and the purpose of my post was to point out this is not true. To what extent that is the fault of the EU is a different question and a valid discussion to have but it is an issue.
The further up the socioeconomic scale people are the more likely they are to experience the positives of immigration and the less likely to feel the negatives.
Now compare with finances and taxation where most accept that the richer you are not only should you pay more tax but also pay a higher proportion of your income and wealth in tax.
It would be interesting to see what effect moving the entire 'bed in sheds' population from Newham to Twickenham would have on Vince Cable's views and that of his voters.
But putting that aside, I just think it’s disingenous to add the complaint that the EU is depopulating Eastern Europe amongst its other evils.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5487167/Telford-child-sex-scandal-involving-1-000-Britains-worst.html
Migrants from Eastern Europe received more in welfare than the average UK citizen — and paid less income tax, figures show
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5776790/eu-migrants-in-britain-claimed-more-than-4bn-of-handouts-in-a-year/
Top of my Facebook feed is a link to a New Statesman article headed: "Why you should give money directly and unconditionally to homeless people"
Below which is a sponsored ad for Strongbow ...
The point I am trying to make is not that countries are not depopulating. All sorts of places are depopulating. I imagine much of rural Europe continues to do so. The article you cited talks about people moving to Riga for example.
What I am trying to say is, this is a silly argument for Leavers to make. On the simple grounds that most enthusiastic supporters of FOM seem to be those very Eastern European states that are losing their talent to us.
Note it doesn't matter who the next Speaker is - Con and Lab both have to supply two Speaker / Deputy Speakers. If, eg, Harriet Harman becomes Speaker then one of Lindsay Hoyle / Rosie Winterton will give up being Deputy Speaker and return to being a voting Lab MP and Con will have to provide another Deputy Speaker to join Eleanor Laing.
Surely the last thing TMay will want is a risky by-election - however safe the seat might look - remember how well the LDs did in Witney after Cameron retired.
The article suggests it’s all about the tax credits.