The FS should have more important stuff to do than bail out a recent Uk passport holder who is daft enough to go to Iran.
Really? Try a thought experiment. May gives up, Corbyn forms a minority government. Another Brit goes to Iran, and Thornberry absent-mindedly confirms the Revolutionary Guards' theory on the reason for the trip. Do you
a) Say never mind, the FCO has more important things to worry about? b) Say ha, we told you Corbyn was a sympathiser with extremists?
Don't you think that your political sympathies are influencing you?
And before you ask, no, I've been ready to praise Tory Ministers (recently Gove) when they're doing well. But you don't have to be a Labour supporter to see that Boris isn't just an accident waiting to happen, he's an accident that happens at regular intervals, and as such is not an ideal representative for Britain.
Further to this I would also disagree with TGOHFs basic premise. One of th basic jobs of the FCO is to look after the interests of British citizens abroad whether they have been British for 80 years or 80 days. There are lots of dangerous places in the world and Brits have to visit them for hundreds of different reasons. They do so on the basis that the FCO, whilst it may not always be able to prevent them getting into trouble will, at least, not make things worse.
One of the reasons I think this govt is no longer fit for purpose is that they seem to be putting British people into harms way and not really worrying about it too much.
It's all rather unseemly, isn't it? But we should not be surprised that Tory right wingers willing to see millions suffer the consequences of a Hard Brexit are not all that fussed about the fate of an individual British citizen.
The FS should have more important stuff to do than bail out a recent Uk passport holder who is daft enough to go to Iran.
Really? Try a thought experiment. May gives up, Corbyn forms a minority government. Another Brit goes to Iran, and Thornberry absent-mindedly confirms the Revolutionary Guards' theory on the reason for the trip. Do you
a) Say never mind, the FCO has more important things to worry about? b) Say ha, we told you Corbyn was a sympathiser with extremists?
Don't you think that your political sympathies are influencing you?
And before you ask, no, I've been ready to praise Tory Ministers (recently Gove) when they're doing well. But you don't have to be a Labour supporter to see that Boris isn't just an accident waiting to happen, he's an accident that happens at regular intervals, and as such is not an ideal representative for Britain.
Further to this I would also disagree with TGOHFs basic premise. One of th basic jobs of the FCO is to look after the interests of British citizens abroad whether they have been British for 80 years or 80 days. There are lots of dangerous places in the world and Brits have to visit them for hundreds of different reasons. They do so on the basis that the FCO, whilst it may not always be able to prevent them getting into trouble will, at least, not make things worse.
Up to a point.
The government guidance on what can be done via a Consul is here:
Countries where the age of consent is 14: Albania, Andorra, Austria, Bulgaria, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Estonia, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Liechtenstein, Macedonia, Montenegro, Portugal, San Marino, Serbia.
Refreshing to see the Remainariat having a "Let's all laugh at the pervy foreigners" moment.
That's not a proper understanding of the laws.
IIRC no one over the age of 21 can have sexual relations with a 14/15 year old in Germany.
Your recollection is incorrect. Being over 21 and having sex with a 14/15 year old is not an offence of itself. However, it is an offence if the older person has exploited the 14/15 year old's lack of capacity for sexual self determination. The older person can only be convicted if the young person complains.
I just have a suspicion that the government has picked up wind that she was doing rather more than being on holiday. Boris's initial comment was that helping someone become a journalist is not a crime. Of course it isn't in any sane or civilised society. But in Iran....
That suspicion would then imply not just that Ms Zaghari-Ratcliffe was teaching journalism but she and her husband are lying about it. If that's the case, it's the case and Zaghari-Ratcliffe will face the consequences. But you would have to be 100% demonstrably correct in your implications because your words have just seen her prison sentence increase. 99% certain isn't good enough. If you have any doubt it is better to go with what she says and say you were misinformed later on if it turns out differently. The whole thing was avoidable if Boris Johnson had been more circumspect.
That said, I'm not sure there's a solution to the Irish border that can get through Parliament.
There is one obvious and simple solution that probably has a majority in Parliament, but nobody will propose it (yet)
In fact there are two simple solutions that would remove the international frontier. However, the Republic rejoining the UK is even less likely than NI joining the Republic.
I suppose simple solution number three is the Republic triggering Article 50...
The Irish Republic should leave the EU and revert to Sterling from the Euro. Problem solved.
And have Queen Elizbeth as their monarch and accept rule from Westminster, Er! Somehow, I don't think that will ever happen....
The solution is a 32 county Irish Republic.
This was clear to me on 24/6/16.
Trouble is the Irish don't want it. The last thing they want is three quarters of a million unwilling unionists ready to cause chaos in their country. So whilst in an ideal world I agree with you, in practice it would be very, very bad for peace on the Island of Ireland.
Sure there will be some complexity but it is manageable with a bit of thought.
There you go again
"Someone, not me, some other unspecified smart person, will sort this out. Trust me"
Even if it were true that it is manageable with a bit of thought (and I don't believe it is), the timetable is insufficient
I do claim some level of expertise on large Government IT projects. There will not be an invisible, high tech border in place by March 2019
Basic principle of senior management is delegation. If I was responsible for the team that was expected to deliver it I'd be all over the details. But I'm not.
Fundamentally everything is solved Le with some effort.
But now I'm off to California for 36 hours so enjoy yourself.
I just have a suspicion that the government has picked up wind that she was doing rather more than being on holiday. Boris's initial comment was that helping someone become a journalist is not a crime. Of course it isn't in any sane or civilised society. But in Iran....
That suspicion would then imply not just that Ms Zaghari-Ratcliffe was teaching journalism but she and her husband are lying about it. If that's the case, it's the case and Zaghari-Ratcliffe will face the consequences. But you would have to be 100% demonstrably correct in your implications because your words have just seen her prison sentence increase. 99% certain isn't good enough. If you have any doubt it is better to go with what she says and say you were misinformed later on if it turns out differently. The whole thing was avoidable if Boris Johnson had been more circumspect.
Yep. The bottom line is that even if she was doing something illegal as far as Iranian law was concerned, she, and we, would not expect the UK Foreign Secretary to drop her in it through sheer carelessness.
The FS should have more important stuff to do than bail out a recent Uk passport holder who is daft enough to go to Iran.
Really? Try a thought experiment. May gives up, Corbyn forms a minority government. Another Brit goes to Iran, and Thornberry absent-mindedly confirms the Revolutionary Guards' theory on the reason for the trip. Do you
a) Say never mind, the FCO has more important things to worry about? b) Say ha, we told you Corbyn was a sympathiser with extremists?
Don't you think that your political sympathies are influencing you?
And before you ask, no, I've been ready to praise Tory Ministers (recently Gove) when they're doing well. But you don't have to be a Labour supporter to see that Boris isn't just an accident waiting to happen, he's an accident that happens at regular intervals, and as such is not an ideal representative for Britain.
Further to this I would also disagree with TGOHFs basic premise. One of th basic jobs of the FCO is to look after the interests of British citizens abroad whether they have been British for 80 years or 80 days. There are lots of dangerous places in the world and Brits have to visit them for hundreds of different reasons. They do so on the basis that the FCO, whilst it may not always be able to prevent them getting into trouble will, at least, not make things worse.
Up to a point.
The government guidance on what can be done via a Consul is here:
It specifically states that a Dual National can expect little help in the country of their other nationality.
I was not a dual national but I was very grateful for the British representative in Tunisia many years ago when I was arrested for spying. I suspect I would have been more than a little peeved if the consul had turned up and told the police I was indeed spying (I wasn't of course)
That said, I'm not sure there's a solution to the Irish border that can get through Parliament.
There is one obvious and simple solution that probably has a majority in Parliament, but nobody will propose it (yet)
In fact there are two simple solutions that would remove the international frontier. However, the Republic rejoining the UK is even less likely than NI joining the Republic.
I suppose simple solution number three is the Republic triggering Article 50...
The Irish Republic should leave the EU and revert to Sterling from the Euro. Problem solved.
Good idea. We just need to get that confirmed by a simultaneous referendum in both countries with the alternative being the status quo.
I was not a dual national but I was very grateful for the British representative in Tunisia many years ago when I was arrested for spying. I suspect I would have been more than a little peeved if the consul had turned up and told the police I was indeed spying (I wasn't of course)
What is the Foreign Secretary went on National TV and said he didn't know if you were spying?
That said, I'm not sure there's a solution to the Irish border that can get through Parliament.
There is one obvious and simple solution that probably has a majority in Parliament, but nobody will propose it (yet)
In fact there are two simple solutions that would remove the international frontier. However, the Republic rejoining the UK is even less likely than NI joining the Republic.
I suppose simple solution number three is the Republic triggering Article 50...
The Irish Republic should leave the EU and revert to Sterling from the Euro. Problem solved.
And have Queen Elizbeth as their monarch and accept rule from Westminster, Er! Somehow, I don't think that will ever happen....
The solution is a 32 county Irish Republic.
This was clear to me on 24/6/16.
Trouble is the Irish don't want it. The last thing they want is three quarters of a million unwilling unionists ready to cause chaos in their country. So whilst in an ideal world I agree with you, in practice it would be very, very bad for peace on the Island of Ireland.
Diehard unionists could leave, like the Pieds-Noirs left Algeria in 1962.
The FS should have more important stuff to do than bail out a recent Uk passport holder who is daft enough to go to Iran.
Really? Try a thought experiment. May gives up, Corbyn forms a minority government. Another Brit goes to Iran, and Thornberry absent-mindedly confirms the Revolutionary Guards' theory on the reason for the trip. Do you
a) Say never mind, the FCO has more important things to worry about? b) Say ha, we told you Corbyn was a sympathiser with extremists?
Don't you think that your political sympathies are influencing you?
And before you ask, no, I've been ready to praise Tory Ministers (recently Gove) when they're doing well. But you don't have to be a Labour supporter to see that Boris isn't just an accident waiting to happen, he's an accident that happens at regular intervals, and as such is not an ideal representative for Britain.
Further to this I would also disagree with TGOHFs basic premise. One of th basic jobs of the FCO is to look after the interests of British citizens abroad whether they have been British for 80 years or 80 days. There are lots of dangerous places in the world and Brits have to visit them for hundreds of different reasons. They do so on the basis that the FCO, whilst it may not always be able to prevent them getting into trouble will, at least, not make things worse.
One of the reasons I think this govt is no longer fit for purpose is that they seem to be putting British people into harms way and not really worrying about it too much.
It's all rather unseemly, isn't it? But we should not be surprised that Tory right wingers willing to see millions suffer the consequences of a Hard Brexit are not all that fussed about the fate of an individual British citizen.
Last night, somebody on here (anotherNick IIRC) said that the Tory party had become a sect/cult with The Unquestionable Truth handed down from on high. That seems to be the way it has gone.
I sometimes wonder how Theresa May's much vaunted sense of Public Service lets her stomach the egomaniacs in her party. Perhaps, if HIGNFY still has that tub of lard that stood in for Roy Hattersely many years ago, she could replace the large lump of lard currently in the Foreign Office with a newer, less rancid lump?
I was not a dual national but I was very grateful for the British representative in Tunisia many years ago when I was arrested for spying. I suspect I would have been more than a little peeved if the consul had turned up and told the police I was indeed spying (I wasn't of course)
What is the Foreign Secretary went on National TV and said he didn't know if you were spying?
Much better, right?
Not sure what your point is given I have been saying all along Boris should resign. All I have done is given an example of where the system worked well as i am sure it does most of the time when the blonde bombshell is not involved.
The FS should have more important stuff to do than bail out a recent Uk passport holder who is daft enough to go to Iran.
Really? Try a thought experiment. May gives up, Corbyn forms a minority government. Another Brit goes to Iran, and Thornberry absent-mindedly confirms the Revolutionary Guards' theory on the reason for the trip. Do you
a) Say never mind, the FCO has more important things to worry about? b) Say ha, we told you Corbyn was a sympathiser with extremists?
Don't you think that your political sympathies are influencing you?
And before you ask, no, I've been ready to praise Tory Ministers (recently Gove) when they're doing well. But you don't have to be a Labour supporter to see that Boris isn't just an accident waiting to happen, he's an accident that happens at regular intervals, and as such is not an ideal representative for Britain.
Further to this I would also disagree with TGOHFs basic premise. One of th basic jobs of the FCO is to look after the interests of British citizens abroad whether they have been British for 80 years or 80 days. There are lots of dangerous places in the world and Brits have to visit them for hundreds of different reasons. They do so on the basis that the FCO, whilst it may not always be able to prevent them getting into trouble will, at least, not make things worse.
Up to a point.
The government guidance on what can be done via a Consul is here:
It specifically states that a Dual National can expect little help in the country of their other nationality.
I was not a dual national but I was very grateful for the British representative in Tunisia many years ago when I was arrested for spying. I suspect I would have been more than a little peeved if the consul had turned up and told the police I was indeed spying (I wasn't of course)
I would agree that the Foreign Office should not make things worse! and of course the Iranian regime is pretty repressive, albeit not that much more so than other countries in the region.
Accusations of spying are always difficult as usually spies have a cover story, and the FCO should take a special interest in these whether or not the accusation is well founded.
Willie Walsh went on the record a couple of weeks ago saying planes will still fly
It's a variation on the "Of course there will be a deal - the Germans want to sell us their cars."
Mr Walsh is probably correct. It is why we will probably sign up to the Article 50 deal on the EU's terms. There is a deal available to us (in outline). It's mostly workable and the unworkable bits I am sure can be sorted out. It does however go against the Brexit rhetoric, which is why people talk about walking away. Maintaining Brexit delusions isn't an EU objective. Actually it's important from their position to knock any such delusions firmly on the head to shore up the integrity of their organisation.
That said, I'm not sure there's a solution to the Irish border that can get through Parliament.
There is one obvious and simple solution that probably has a majority in Parliament, but nobody will propose it (yet)
In fact there are two simple solutions that would remove the international frontier. However, the Republic rejoining the UK is even less likely than NI joining the Republic.
I suppose simple solution number three is the Republic triggering Article 50...
The Irish Republic should leave the EU and revert to Sterling from the Euro. Problem solved.
And have Queen Elizbeth as their monarch and accept rule from Westminster, Er! Somehow, I don't think that will ever happen....
The solution is a 32 county Irish Republic.
This was clear to me on 24/6/16.
No that is not the solution, the whole reason NI was established in the first place was because of violence by Ulster Unionists at the threat of being placed in the newly established Irish Free State. The British clearly could not go on ruling southern, Catholic Ireland given the increasingly violent turn Irish nationalism was taking in opposition to that but neither could NI be placed in the Republic without violence inevitably resulting.
The FS should have more important stuff to do than bail out a recent Uk passport holder who is daft enough to go to Iran.
Really? Try a thought experiment. May gives up, Corbyn forms a minority government. Another Brit goes to Iran, and Thornberry absent-mindedly confirms the Revolutionary Guards' theory on the reason for the trip. Do you
a) Say never mind, the FCO has more important things to worry about? b) Say ha, we told you Corbyn was a sympathiser with extremists?
Don't you think that your political sympathies are influencing you?
And before you ask, no, I've been ready to praise Tory Ministers (recently Gove) when they're doing well. But you don't have to be a Labour supporter to see that Boris isn't just an accident waiting to happen, he's an accident that happens at regular intervals, and as such is not an ideal representative for Britain.
Further to this I would also disagree with TGOHFs basic premise. One of th basic jobs of the FCO is to look after the interests of British citizens abroad whether they have been British for 80 years or 80 days. There are lots of dangerous places in the world and Brits have to visit them for hundreds of different reasons. They do so on the basis that the FCO, whilst it may not always be able to prevent them getting into trouble will, at least, not make things worse.
One of the reasons I think this govt is no longer fit for purpose is that they seem to be putting British people into harms way and not really worrying about it too much.
It's all rather unseemly, isn't it? But we should not be surprised that Tory right wingers willing to see millions suffer the consequences of a Hard Brexit are not all that fussed about the fate of an individual British citizen.
Last night, somebody on here (anotherNick IIRC) said that the Tory party had become a sect/cult with The Unquestionable Truth handed down from on high. That seems to be the way it has gone.
I sometimes wonder how Theresa May's much vaunted sense of Public Service lets her stomach the egomaniacs in her party. Perhaps, if HIGNFY still has that tub of lard that stood in for Roy Hattersely many years ago, she could replace the large lump of lard currently in the Foreign Office with a newer, less rancid lump?
The problem with the Tory party is that they don't believe in anything except office, as Peter Hitchens correctly says.
That said, I'm not sure there's a solution to the Irish border that can get through Parliament.
There is one obvious and simple solution that probably has a majority in Parliament, but nobody will propose it (yet)
In fact there are two simple solutions that would remove the international frontier. However, the Republic rejoining the UK is even less likely than NI joining the Republic.
I suppose simple solution number three is the Republic triggering Article 50...
The Irish Republic should leave the EU and revert to Sterling from the Euro. Problem solved.
And have Queen Elizbeth as their monarch and accept rule from Westminster, Er! Somehow, I don't think that will ever happen....
The solution is a 32 county Irish Republic.
This was clear to me on 24/6/16.
Trouble is the Irish don't want it. The last thing they want is three quarters of a million unwilling unionists ready to cause chaos in their country. So whilst in an ideal world I agree with you, in practice it would be very, very bad for peace on the Island of Ireland.
Diehard unionists could leave, like the Pieds-Noirs left Algeria in 1962.
Given the position of power they would be in and their ability to cause chaos in the Irish Republic, why would they? Remember the Pied Noirs left because they were being exterminated by the FLN. The balance of power would be very different in a post unification Ireland.
Willie Walsh went on the record a couple of weeks ago saying planes will still fly
It's a variation on the "Of course there will be a deal - the Germans want to sell us their cars."
Mr Walsh is probably correct. It is why we will probably sign up to the Article 50 deal on the EU's terms. There is a deal available to us (in outline). It's mostly workable and the unworkable bits I am sure can be sorted out. It does however go against the Brexit rhetoric, which is why people talk about walking away. Maintaining Brexit delusions isn't an EU objective. Actually it's important from their position to knock any such delusions firmly on the head to shore up the integrity of their organisation.
Ultimately that is how cognitive dissonance over Brexit will be resolved. We will choose to either have our cake or eat it. A serving of humble pie will be the first course though, and a steep bill.
It is why there nedds to be a substantive vote in parliament on the issue.
That said, I'm not sure there's a solution to the Irish border that can get through Parliament.
There is one obvious and simple solution that probably has a majority in Parliament, but nobody will propose it (yet)
In fact there are two simple solutions that would remove the international frontier. However, the Republic rejoining the UK is even less likely than NI joining the Republic.
I suppose simple solution number three is the Republic triggering Article 50...
The Irish Republic should leave the EU and revert to Sterling from the Euro. Problem solved.
And have Queen Elizbeth as their monarch and accept rule from Westminster, Er! Somehow, I don't think that will ever happen....
The solution is a 32 county Irish Republic.
This was clear to me on 24/6/16.
Trouble is the Irish don't want it. The last thing they want is three quarters of a million unwilling unionists ready to cause chaos in their country. So whilst in an ideal world I agree with you, in practice it would be very, very bad for peace on the Island of Ireland.
Diehard unionists could leave, like the Pieds-Noirs left Algeria in 1962.
Pretty sure not many on UK proper would want three quarters of a million Unionist ultras foisted on them either. A late outbreak of 'patriotic remembrance' marching this weekend certainly makes me tend to that view.
Willie Walsh went on the record a couple of weeks ago saying planes will still fly
It's a variation on the "Of course there will be a deal - the Germans want to sell us their cars."
Mr Walsh is probably correct. It is why we will probably sign up to the Article 50 deal on the EU's terms. There is a deal available to us (in outline). It's mostly workable and the unworkable bits I am sure can be sorted out. It does however go against the Brexit rhetoric, which is why people talk about walking away. Maintaining Brexit delusions isn't an EU objective. Actually it's important from their position to knock any such delusions firmly on the head to shore up the integrity of their organisation.
Ultimately that is how cognitive dissonance over Brexit will be resolved. We will choose to either have our cake or eat it. A serving of humble pie will be the first course though, and a steep bill.
It is why there nedds to be a substantive vote in parliament on the issue.
A serving of humble pie and a steep bill is what the UK has been getting for thirty years.
The FS should have more important stuff to do than bail out a recent Uk passport holder who is daft enough to go to Iran.
Really? Try a thought experiment. May gives up, Corbyn forms a minority government. Another Brit goes to Iran, and Thornberry absent-mindedly confirms the Revolutionary Guards' theory on the reason for the trip. Do you
a) Say never mind, the FCO has more important things to worry about? b) Say ha, we told you Corbyn was a sympathiser with extremists?
Don't you think that your political sympathies are influencing you?
And before you ask, no, I've been ready to praise Tory Ministers (recently Gove) when they're doing well. But you don't have to be a Labour supporter to see that Boris isn't just an accident waiting to happen, he's an accident that happens at regular intervals, and as such is not an ideal representative for Britain.
Further to this I would also disagree with TGOHFs basic premise. One of th basic jobs of the FCO is to look after the interests of British citizens abroad whether they have been British for 80 years or 80 days. There are lots of dangerous places in the world and Brits have to visit them for hundreds of different reasons. They do so on the basis that the FCO, whilst it may not always be able to prevent them getting into trouble will, at least, not make things worse.
Up to a point.
The government guidance on what can be done via a Consul is here:
It specifically states that a Dual National can expect little help in the country of their other nationality.
I was not a dual national but I was very grateful for the British representative in Tunisia many years ago when I was arrested for spying. I suspect I would have been more than a little peeved if the consul had turned up and told the police I was indeed spyingb (I wasn't of course)
My Dad was detained for trying to stowaway on the President of Algeria's private yacht.
The Ambassador turned up to the prison and said "I've spoken to your father, and he has told me to leave you here for a couple of days to teach you a lesson"
That said, I'm not sure there's a solution to the Irish border that can get through Parliament.
There is one obvious and simple solution that probably has a majority in Parliament, but nobody will propose it (yet)
In fact there are two simple solutions that would remove the international frontier. However, the Republic rejoining the UK is even less likely than NI joining the Republic.
I suppose simple solution number three is the Republic triggering Article 50...
The Irish Republic should leave the EU and revert to Sterling from the Euro. Problem solved.
And have Queen Elizbeth as their monarch and accept rule from Westminster, Er! Somehow, I don't think that will ever happen....
The solution is a 32 county Irish Republic.
This was clear to me on 24/6/16.
Trouble is the Irish don't want it. The last thing they want is three quarters of a million unwilling unionists ready to cause chaos in their country. So whilst in an ideal world I agree with you, in practice it would be very, very bad for peace on the Island of Ireland.
Diehard unionists could leave, like the Pieds-Noirs left Algeria in 1962.
Pretty sure not many on UK proper would want three quarters of a million Unionist ultras foisted on them either. A late outbreak of 'patriotic remembrance' marching this weekend certainly makes me tend to that view.
All that is needed is for 200k or so who are most opposed to Irish re-unification to leave, and then a border poll among the remaining 1.4k population would probably give a majority in favour of re-unification, as per the option in the GF agreement. With the mass exodus of EU nationals post Brexit, there would be room for 200k ex-Ulster folk in GB proper.
Willie Walsh went on the record a couple of weeks ago saying planes will still fly
It's a variation on the "Of course there will be a deal - the Germans want to sell us their cars."
Mr Walsh is probably correct. It is why we will probably sign up to the Article 50 deal on the EU's terms. There is a deal available to us (in outline). It's mostly workable and the unworkable bits I am sure can be sorted out. It does however go against the Brexit rhetoric, which is why people talk about walking away. Maintaining Brexit delusions isn't an EU objective. Actually it's important from their position to knock any such delusions firmly on the head to shore up the integrity of their organisation.
The difference being Walsh is guilty of market abuse if he misleads investors. For instance he said the US will sign an Open Skies agreement "one second after midnight". He wouldn't have said that without being sure
The FS should have more important stuff to do than bail out a recent Uk passport holder who is daft enough to go to Iran.
Really? Try a thought experiment. May gives up, Corbyn forms a minority government. Another Brit goes to Iran, and Thornberry absent-mindedly confirms the Revolutionary Guards' theory on the reason for the trip. Do you
a) Say never mind, the FCO has more important things to worry about? b) Say ha, we told you Corbyn was a sympathiser with extremists?
Don't you think that your political sympathies are influencing you?
And before you ask, no, I've been ready to praise Tory Ministers (recently Gove) when they're doing well. But you don't have to be a Labour supporter to see that Boris isn't just an accident waiting to happen, he's an accident that happens at regular intervals, and as such is not an ideal representative for Britain.
Further to this I would also disagree with TGOHFs basic premise. One of th basic jobs of the FCO is to look after the interests of British citizens abroad whether they have been British for 80 years or 80 days. There are lots of dangerous places in the world and Brits have to visit them for hundreds of different reasons. They do so on the basis that the FCO, whilst it may not always be able to prevent them getting into trouble will, at least, not make things worse.
One of the reasons I think this govt is no longer fit for purpose is that they seem to be putting British people into harms way and not really worrying about it too much.
It's all rather unseemly, isn't it? But we should not be surprised that Tory right wingers willing to see millions suffer the consequences of a Hard Brexit are not all that fussed about the fate of an individual British citizen.
Last night, somebody on here (anotherNick IIRC) said that the Tory party had become a sect/cult with The Unquestionable Truth handed down from on high. That seems to be the way it has gone.
I sometimes wonder how Theresa May's much vaunted sense of Public Service lets her stomach the egomaniacs in her party. Perhaps, if HIGNFY still has that tub of lard that stood in for Roy Hattersely many years ago, she could replace the large lump of lard currently in the Foreign Office with a newer, less rancid lump?
The problem with the Tory party is that they don't believe in anything except office, as Peter Hitchens correctly says.
That won them power for most of the 20th century. Though Thatcher was the obvious exception.
No that is not the solution, the whole reason NI was established in the first place was because of violence by Ulster Unionists at the threat of being placed in the newly established Irish Free State. The British clearly could not go on ruling southern, Catholic Ireland given the increasingly violent turn Irish nationalism was taking in opposition to that but neither could NI be placed in the Republic without violence inevitably resulting.
The Irish were the first "Western Democracy" to implement 'ethnic-cleansing': As a[n] [half] Kerryman and Roman-Catholic I hope St Peter does not hold the sins-of-my-fathers against me when my time has come.
That said, I'm not sure there's a solution to the Irish border that can get through Parliament.
There is one obvious and simple solution that probably has a majority in Parliament, but nobody will propose it (yet)
In fact there are two simple solutions that would remove the international frontier. However, the Republic rejoining the UK is even less likely than NI joining the Republic.
I suppose simple solution number three is the Republic triggering Article 50...
The Irish Republic should leave the EU and revert to Sterling from the Euro. Problem solved.
And have Queen Elizbeth as their monarch and accept rule from Westminster, Er! Somehow, I don't think that will ever happen....
The solution is a 32 county Irish Republic.
This was clear to me on 24/6/16.
Trouble is the Irish don't want it. The last thing they want is three quarters of a million unwilling unionists ready to cause chaos in their country. So whilst in an ideal world I agree with you, in practice it would be very, very bad for peace on the Island of Ireland.
Diehard unionists could leave, like the Pieds-Noirs left Algeria in 1962.
Pretty sure not many on UK proper would want three quarters of a million Unionist ultras foisted on them either. A late outbreak of 'patriotic remembrance' marching this weekend certainly makes me tend to that view.
All that is needed is for 200k or so who are most opposed to Irish re-unification to leave, and then a border poll among the remaining 1.4k population would probably give a majority in favour of re-unification, as per the option in the GF agreement. With the mass exodus of EU nationals post Brexit, there would be room for 200k ex-Ulster folk in GB proper.
Or the minority who want to reunite with the Republic move south. Though of course as most Unionists in NI are of Scottish origin if they returned there that would entrench Scotland in the Union permanently
That said, I'm not sure there's a solution to the Irish border that can get through Parliament.
There is one obvious and simple solution that probably has a majority in Parliament, but nobody will propose it (yet)
In fact there are two simple solutions that would remove the international frontier. However, the Republic rejoining the UK is even less likely than NI joining the Republic.
I suppose simple solution number three is the Republic triggering Article 50...
The Irish Republic should leave the EU and revert to Sterling from the Euro. Problem solved.
And have Queen Elizbeth as their monarch and accept rule from Westminster, Er! Somehow, I don't think that will ever happen....
The solution is a 32 county Irish Republic.
This was clear to me on 24/6/16.
No that is not the solution, the whole reason NI was established in the first place was because of violence by Ulster Unionists at the threat of being placed in the newly established Irish Free State. The British clearly could not go on ruling southern, Catholic Ireland given the increasingly violent turn Irish nationalism was taking in opposition to that but neither could NI be placed in the Republic without violence inevitably resulting.
Bullocks.
It was because a majority of votes in the 6 counties were to remain part of the UK.
It's the UK belief in self-determination that means we have Northern Ireland not Ulster.
(I wrote my thesis on the period and was fortunately able to draw on Amelia Lizzie Lambert's private archive - her nephew Edward Carson kept her fully abreast of developments as they happened.
That said, I'm not sure there's a solution to the Irish border that can get through Parliament.
There is one obvious and simple solution that probably has a majority in Parliament, but nobody will propose it (yet)
In fact there are two simple solutions that would remove the international frontier. However, the Republic rejoining the UK is even less likely than NI joining the Republic.
I suppose simple solution number three is the Republic triggering Article 50...
The Irish Republic should leave the EU and revert to Sterling from the Euro. Problem solved.
And have Queen Elizbeth as their monarch and accept rule from Westminster, Er! Somehow, I don't think that will ever happen....
The solution is a 32 county Irish Republic.
This was clear to me on 24/6/16.
Trouble is the Irish don't want it. The last thing they want is three quarters of a million unwilling unionists ready to cause chaos in their country. So whilst in an ideal world I agree with you, in practice it would be very, very bad for peace on the Island of Ireland.
Diehard unionists could leave, like the Pieds-Noirs left Algeria in 1962.
Pretty sure not many on UK proper would want three quarters of a million Unionist ultras foisted on them either. A late outbreak of 'patriotic remembrance' marching this weekend certainly makes me tend to that view.
All that is needed is for 200k or so who are most opposed to Irish re-unification to leave, and then a border poll among the remaining 1.4k population would probably give a majority in favour of re-unification, as per the option in the GF agreement. With the mass exodus of EU nationals post Brexit, there would be room for 200k ex-Ulster folk in GB proper.
We'd have to be careful not to resettle them next to (other) immigrant communities.
That said, I'm not sure there's a solution to the Irish border that can get through Parliament.
There is one obvious and simple solution that probably has a majority in Parliament, but nobody will propose it (yet)
In fact there are two simple solutions that would remove the international frontier. However, the Republic rejoining the UK is even less likely than NI joining the Republic.
I suppose simple solution number three is the Republic triggering Article 50...
The Irish Republic should leave the EU and revert to Sterling from the Euro. Problem solved.
And have Queen Elizbeth as their monarch and accept rule from Westminster, Er! Somehow, I don't think that will ever happen....
The solution is a 32 county Irish Republic.
This was clear to me on 24/6/16.
Trouble is the Irish don't want it. The last thing they want is three quarters of a million unwilling unionists ready to cause chaos in their country. So whilst in an ideal world I agree with you, in practice it would be very, very bad for peace on the Island of Ireland.
Diehard unionists could leave, like the Pieds-Noirs left Algeria in 1962.
We spent millions of pounds and many lives over decades to make sure Northern Ireland didn't become Algeria, thank you.
That said, I'm not sure there's a solution to the Irish border that can get through Parliament.
There is one obvious and simple solution that probably has a majority in Parliament, but nobody will propose it (yet)
In fact there are two simple solutions that would remove the international frontier. However, the Republic rejoining the UK is even less likely than NI joining the Republic.
I suppose simple solution number three is the Republic triggering Article 50...
The Irish Republic should leave the EU and revert to Sterling from the Euro. Problem solved.
And have Queen Elizbeth as their monarch and accept rule from Westminster, Er! Somehow, I don't think that will ever happen....
The solution is a 32 county Irish Republic.
This was clear to me on 24/6/16.
Trouble is the Irish don't want it. The last thing they want is three quarters of a million unwilling unionists ready to cause chaos in their country. So whilst in an ideal world I agree with you, in practice it would be very, very bad for peace on the Island of Ireland.
Diehard unionists could leave, like the Pieds-Noirs left Algeria in 1962.
Pretty sure not many on UK proper would want three quarters of a million Unionist ultras foisted on them either. A late outbreak of 'patriotic remembrance' marching this weekend certainly makes me tend to that view.
All that is needed is for 200k or so who are most opposed to Irish re-unification to leave, and then a border poll among the remaining 1.4k population would probably give a majority in favour of re-unification, as per the option in the GF agreement. With the mass exodus of EU nationals post Brexit, there would be room for 200k ex-Ulster folk in GB proper.
We'd have to be careful not to resettle them next to (other) immigrant communities.
Willie Walsh went on the record a couple of weeks ago saying planes will still fly
It's a variation on the "Of course there will be a deal - the Germans want to sell us their cars."
Mr Walsh is probably correct. It is why we will probably sign up to the Article 50 deal on the EU's terms. There is a deal available to us (in outline). It's mostly workable and the unworkable bits I am sure can be sorted out. It does however go against the Brexit rhetoric, which is why people talk about walking away. Maintaining Brexit delusions isn't an EU objective. Actually it's important from their position to knock any such delusions firmly on the head to shore up the integrity of their organisation.
The difference being Walsh is guilty of market abuse if he misleads investors. For instance he said the US will sign an Open Skies agreement "one second after midnight". He wouldn't have said that without being sure
I don't think predictions of how other regulators might regulate counts as market abuse. Just as well for Mr Walsh, I suggest.
That said, I'm not sure there's a solution to the Irish border that can get through Parliament.
There is one obvious and simple solution that probably has a majority in Parliament, but nobody will propose it (yet)
In fact there are two simple solutions that would remove the international frontier. However, the Republic rejoining the UK is even less likely than NI joining the Republic.
I suppose simple solution number three is the Republic triggering Article 50...
The Irish Republic should leave the EU and revert to Sterling from the Euro. Problem solved.
And have Queen Elizbeth as their monarch and accept rule from Westminster, Er! Somehow, I don't think that will ever happen....
The solution is a 32 county Irish Republic.
This was clear to me on 24/6/16.
Trouble is the Irish don't want it. The last thing they want is three quarters of a million unwilling unionists ready to cause chaos in their country. So whilst in an ideal world I agree with you, in practice it would be very, very bad for peace on the Island of Ireland.
Diehard unionists could leave, like the Pieds-Noirs left Algeria in 1962.
Pretty sure not many on UK proper would want three quarters of a million Unionist ultras foisted on them either. A late outbreak of 'patriotic remembrance' marching this weekend certainly makes me tend to that view.
All that is needed is for 200k or so who are most opposed to Irish re-unification to leave, and then a border poll among the remaining 1.4k population would probably give a majority in favour of re-unification, as per the option in the GF agreement. With the mass exodus of EU nationals post Brexit, there would be room for 200k ex-Ulster folk in GB proper.
We'd have to be careful not to resettle them next to (other) immigrant communities.
Glasgow might work
Plenty of immigrants in Glasgow, a more mixed demography than many of those Brexit voting areas that deluded themselves that they were getting 'swamped'. It's one of the many things that the Union Flag waving Nazi-saluters in our city get exercised about.
That said, I'm not sure there's a solution to the Irish border that can get through Parliament.
There is one obvious and simple solution that probably has a majority in Parliament, but nobody will propose it (yet)
In fact there are two simple solutions that would remove the international frontier. However, the Republic rejoining the UK is even less likely than NI joining the Republic.
I suppose simple solution number three is the Republic triggering Article 50...
The Irish Republic should leave the EU and revert to Sterling from the Euro. Problem solved.
And have Queen Elizbeth as their monarch and accept rule from Westminster, Er! Somehow, I don't think that will ever happen....
The solution is a 32 county Irish Republic.
This was clear to me on 24/6/16.
No that is not the solution, the whole reason NI was established in the first place was because of violence by Ulster Unionists at the threat of being placed in the newly established Irish Free State. The British clearly could not go on ruling southern, Catholic Ireland given the increasingly violent turn Irish nationalism was taking in opposition to that but neither could NI be placed in the Republic without violence inevitably resulting.
Bullocks.
It was because a majority of votes in the 6 counties were to remain part of the UK.
It's the UK belief in self-determination that means we have Northern Ireland not Ulster.
(I wrote my thesis on the period and was fortunately able to draw on Amelia Lizzie Lambert's private archive - her nephew Edward Carson kept her fully abreast of developments as they happened.
If the UK had believed in self-determination in 1921 there would have been no British Empire by 1930.
Willie Walsh went on the record a couple of weeks ago saying planes will still fly
It's a variation on the "Of course there will be a deal - the Germans want to sell us their cars."
Mr Walsh is probably correct. It is why we will probably sign up to the Article 50 deal on the EU's terms. There is a deal available to us (in outline). It's mostly workable and the unworkable bits I am sure can be sorted out. It does however go against the Brexit rhetoric, which is why people talk about walking away. Maintaining Brexit delusions isn't an EU objective. Actually it's important from their position to knock any such delusions firmly on the head to shore up the integrity of their organisation.
The difference being Walsh is guilty of market abuse if he misleads investors. For instance he said the US will sign an Open Skies agreement "one second after midnight". He wouldn't have said that without being sure
I don't think predictions of how other regulators might regulate counts as market abuse. Just as well for Mr Walsh, I suggest.
He made a definitive statement which is material to investors. I've never looked at the rules in that context but I'd be surprised if it wasn't caught (and he would have had legal advice)
Willie Walsh went on the record a couple of weeks ago saying planes will still fly
It's a variation on the "Of course there will be a deal - the Germans want to sell us their cars."
Mr Walsh is probably correct. It is why we will probably sign up to the Article 50 deal on the EU's terms. There is a deal available to us (in outline). It's mostly workable and the unworkable bits I am sure can be sorted out. It does however go against the Brexit rhetoric, which is why people talk about walking away. Maintaining Brexit delusions isn't an EU objective. Actually it's important from their position to knock any such delusions firmly on the head to shore up the integrity of their organisation.
The difference being Walsh is guilty of market abuse if he misleads investors. For instance he said the US will sign an Open Skies agreement "one second after midnight". He wouldn't have said that without being sure
I don't think predictions of how other regulators might regulate counts as market abuse. Just as well for Mr Walsh, I suggest.
That said, I'm not sure there's a solution to the Irish border that can get through Parliament.
There is one obvious and simple solution that probably has a majority in Parliament, but nobody will propose it (yet)
In fact there are two simple solutions that would remove the international frontier. However, the Republic rejoining the UK is even less likely than NI joining the Republic.
I suppose simple solution number three is the Republic triggering Article 50...
The Irish Republic should leave the EU and revert to Sterling from the Euro. Problem solved.
And have Queen Elizbeth as their monarch and accept rule from Westminster, Er! Somehow, I don't think that will ever happen....
The solution is a 32 county Irish Republic.
This was clear to me on 24/6/16.
No that is not the solution, the whole reason NI was established in the first place was because of violence by Ulster Unionists at the threat of being placed in the newly established Irish Free State. The British clearly could not go on ruling southern, Catholic Ireland given the increasingly violent turn Irish nationalism was taking in opposition to that but neither could NI be placed in the Republic without violence inevitably resulting.
Bullocks.
It was because a majority of votes in the 6 counties were to remain part of the UK.
It's the UK belief in self-determination that means we have Northern Ireland not Ulster.
(I wrote my thesis on the period and was fortunately able to draw on Amelia Lizzie Lambert's private archive - her nephew Edward Carson kept her fully abreast of developments as they happened.
Who was Edward Carson but the first de facto leader of the Ulster Unionists.
As he famously said 'Ulster will fight and Ulster will be right'
Plenty of immigrants in Glasgow, a more mixed demography than many of those Brexit voting areas that deluded themselves that they were getting 'swamped'. It's one of the many things that the Union Flag waving Nazi-saluters in our city get exercised about.
Dumblebot (AlBeeb) called BrExit after Luton* came in: You are not the best judge. Maybe, one-day, your circus will travel.
* 56% leave; 44% remain: UKIP (2015) was a Muslim. Lots of Poles (but they did not have the vote). Please retract.
That said, I'm not sure there's a solution to the Irish border that can get through Parliament.
There is one obvious and simple solution that probably has a majority in Parliament, but nobody will propose it (yet)
In fact there are two simple solutions that would remove the international frontier. However, the Republic rejoining the UK is even less likely than NI joining the Republic.
I suppose simple solution number three is the Republic triggering Article 50...
The Irish Republic should leave the EU and revert to Sterling from the Euro. Problem solved.
And have Queen Elizbeth as their monarch and accept rule from Westminster, Er! Somehow, I don't think that will ever happen....
The solution is a 32 county Irish Republic.
This was clear to me on 24/6/16.
No that is not the solution, the whole reason NI was established in the first place was because of violence by Ulster Unionists at the threat of being placed in the newly established Irish Free State. The British clearly could not go on ruling southern, Catholic Ireland given the increasingly violent turn Irish nationalism was taking in opposition to that but neither could NI be placed in the Republic without violence inevitably resulting.
Bullocks.
It was because a majority of votes in the 6 counties were to remain part of the UK.
It's the UK belief in self-determination that means we have Northern Ireland not Ulster.
(I wrote my thesis on the period and was fortunately able to draw on Amelia Lizzie Lambert's private archive - her nephew Edward Carson kept her fully abreast of developments as they happened.
Well Carson was the one threatening violence, so HYUFD is correct.
"Brown examines why Carson's role in 1914 made him a highly controversial figure: "But his commitment was unqualified, both to Ulster unionism and to its increasing extremism. Under Carson's leadership, with Craig as his lieutenant, discipline and organization were imposed on their supporters; proposed compromises were rejected; and plans were drawn up for a provisional government in the north, if the bill was passed, with its implementation to be resisted by the paramilitary Ulster Volunteer Force, which had been armed by illegal gun-running. It is this apparent willingness to carry resistance to virtually any length, even to risk civil war, that makes Carson so controversial." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Carson
We have 5 newish Sentinel ISTR planes looking for a role in a future RAF. Add in the AirSeekers and remaining 6 (?) of the Seven-Dwarves then electronic CAP (Compliance Accross Protocols) can maintain training and governance along the Intra-Irish border and the Irish Sea.
Soon we will have the tysons* - Certifiable Predators - so they can loiter around as-well. By 2020 we will be able to comfortably observe the North/South border.
* tyson: You are not a 'Predator' but you really should be 'Certified'.
So we're going to be putting the five Sentinels[1], the three Airseekers[1] and the six remaining Sentrys[1] aircraft patrolling a border a good Land Rover can cover in a day.
Pause.
Well it would work, I'll give you that...
Notes. ==== Following the collapse of the Nimrod upgrade program the RAF was left with little airborne reconnaisance, early warning and battlefield control. Since 2010 the various Conservative administrations filled this gap by buying off-the-shelf hardware or easily-adaptable aircraft. The Sentinel is a militarised bizjet filled with tech made by Raytheon, the Airseekers are militarized Boeing 707s which we bought from the USAF and further upgraded into RC-135W Rivet Joints, and the Sentry is a militarized Boeing 707 with a big rotating piedish above it, which we've had for donkey's years now. The seven dwarfs is because there were originally seven in RAF service and were named after them, but Sneezy (ZH105) was decommissioned. The Reaper is a Predator upgraded to MQ9A, and is a drone aircraft with missiles hanging off it. It's not your Xmas present drone, it's longer than three Mondeos and it can seriously fuck up your day.
Comments
The government guidance on what can be done via a Consul is here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/support-for-british-nationals-abroad-a-guide
It specifically states that a Dual National can expect little help in the country of their other nationality.
It was slightly embarrassing seeing him at the Cenotaph this morning
Fundamentally everything is solved Le with some effort.
But now I'm off to California for 36 hours so enjoy yourself.
Time for a strong and stable labour government, in the national interest.
Much better, right?
I sometimes wonder how Theresa May's much vaunted sense of Public Service lets her stomach the egomaniacs in her party. Perhaps, if HIGNFY still has that tub of lard that stood in for Roy Hattersely many years ago, she could replace the large lump of lard currently in the Foreign Office with a newer, less rancid lump?
Accusations of spying are always difficult as usually spies have a cover story, and the FCO should take a special interest in these whether or not the accusation is well founded.
Mr Walsh is probably correct. It is why we will probably sign up to the Article 50 deal on the EU's terms. There is a deal available to us (in outline). It's mostly workable and the unworkable bits I am sure can be sorted out. It does however go against the Brexit rhetoric, which is why people talk about walking away. Maintaining Brexit delusions isn't an EU objective. Actually it's important from their position to knock any such delusions firmly on the head to shore up the integrity of their organisation.
Bye for now....
It is why there nedds to be a substantive vote in parliament on the issue.
The Ambassador turned up to the prison and said "I've spoken to your father, and he has told me to leave you here for a couple of days to teach you a lesson"
It was because a majority of votes in the 6 counties were to remain part of the UK.
It's the UK belief in self-determination that means we have Northern Ireland not Ulster.
(I wrote my thesis on the period and was fortunately able to draw on Amelia Lizzie Lambert's private archive - her nephew Edward Carson kept her fully abreast of developments as they happened.
What do you call Lynton Crosby?
"Sir"
https://twitter.com/Arron_banks/status/929693871164067840
NEW THREAD
As he famously said 'Ulster will fight and Ulster will be right'
* 56% leave; 44% remain: UKIP (2015) was a Muslim. Lots of Poles (but they did not have the vote). Please retract.
"Brown examines why Carson's role in 1914 made him a highly controversial figure:
"But his commitment was unqualified, both to Ulster unionism and to its increasing extremism. Under Carson's leadership, with Craig as his lieutenant, discipline and organization were imposed on their supporters; proposed compromises were rejected; and plans were drawn up for a provisional government in the north, if the bill was passed, with its implementation to be resisted by the paramilitary Ulster Volunteer Force, which had been armed by illegal gun-running. It is this apparent willingness to carry resistance to virtually any length, even to risk civil war, that makes Carson so controversial."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Carson
Pause.
Well it would work, I'll give you that...
Notes.
====
Following the collapse of the Nimrod upgrade program the RAF was left with little airborne reconnaisance, early warning and battlefield control. Since 2010 the various Conservative administrations filled this gap by buying off-the-shelf hardware or easily-adaptable aircraft. The Sentinel is a militarised bizjet filled with tech made by Raytheon, the Airseekers are militarized Boeing 707s which we bought from the USAF and further upgraded into RC-135W Rivet Joints, and the Sentry is a militarized Boeing 707 with a big rotating piedish above it, which we've had for donkey's years now. The seven dwarfs is because there were originally seven in RAF service and were named after them, but Sneezy (ZH105) was decommissioned. The Reaper is a Predator upgraded to MQ9A, and is a drone aircraft with missiles hanging off it. It's not your Xmas present drone, it's longer than three Mondeos and it can seriously fuck up your day.