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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Mrs May needs to use the Fallon vacancy to bring in new talent

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    OchEye said:

    Out of curiosity, who's won anything on the Next Cabinet Member to leave betting book?

    Shadsy.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920

    JonathanD said:

    Ludicrous reshuffle if that's it.

    Holding position in my opinion.
    Agree - everyone calling for a wider reshuffle would be denouncing her for an idiot for not waiting if another minister, or two, quits in the next couple of weeks......
    She could have got rid of the Party Chairperson and put Esther into that role surely?
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    NormNorm Posts: 1,251

    GIN1138 said:

    JohnO said:

    From PPS (Dave's) to Defence Secretary in 18 months - that's an impressive rise by any accounts: it will also be Williamson's first ever Departmental Ministerial role.

    Nabavi reckoned he was a dud...
    He’s a dud in front of people/crowds.

    He’s a good backroom guy.
    University of bradford,not all bad - or is it ;-)
    Anyone who survived three years in Little Horton has my respect. Only place I've ever been mugged and robbed.
    A friend has just been mugged and robbed in Bergen, Norway of all places. Sorry to report it was by a recent arrival to the country.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950
    GIN1138 said:

    Has to be said, that is not a great photo. Makes him look like a deputy funeral undertaker from a small Norfolk town....

    It's not quite as bad as David Miliband with the banana but...
    Ahh, memories...
    image
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    TonyETonyE Posts: 938
    Maybe not. If the point is to have a Chief Whip who is going to be seen to be above the 'hardline' tactics that have been in use in the past, then it has to be a woman, and one that is rather more telegenic and would appear to have soft edges might be a good choice.

    The other shoe is about to drop, Momentum/Labour are about to have their collar felt. It's not a bit of touchy feely, it's Rape and Sexual Assault that is being alleged (Bex & John Mann allegation) with the party machine fully aware and leaning on women not to pursue claims.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,737
    So the man who knows about all the dirt recommends to the PM that he is the only one clean enough to replace Fallon.

    I'm sure Ed Miliband enjoyed his bacon butty this morning.

    We might have to wait for the Sunday papers for the next resignation.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920
    edited November 2017
    Sandpit said:



    image


    Gav does have a bit of a David Miliband vibe about him doesn't he? ;)
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    Norm said:

    GIN1138 said:

    JohnO said:

    From PPS (Dave's) to Defence Secretary in 18 months - that's an impressive rise by any accounts: it will also be Williamson's first ever Departmental Ministerial role.

    Nabavi reckoned he was a dud...
    He’s a dud in front of people/crowds.

    He’s a good backroom guy.
    University of bradford,not all bad - or is it ;-)
    Anyone who survived three years in Little Horton has my respect. Only place I've ever been mugged and robbed.
    A friend has just been mugged and robbed in Bergen, Norway of all places. Sorry to report it was by a recent arrival to the country.
    Only place I've ever been mugged was Brussels - reporting it to the police cheered me up no end 'Oh yes, someone was murdered there last week'
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    stevefstevef Posts: 1,044

    Norm said:

    GIN1138 said:

    JohnO said:

    From PPS (Dave's) to Defence Secretary in 18 months - that's an impressive rise by any accounts: it will also be Williamson's first ever Departmental Ministerial role.

    Nabavi reckoned he was a dud...
    He’s a dud in front of people/crowds.

    He’s a good backroom guy.
    University of bradford,not all bad - or is it ;-)
    Anyone who survived three years in Little Horton has my respect. Only place I've ever been mugged and robbed.
    A friend has just been mugged and robbed in Bergen, Norway of all places. Sorry to report it was by a recent arrival to the country.
    Only place I've ever been mugged was Brussels - reporting it to the police cheered me up no end 'Oh yes, someone was murdered there last week'
    The whole country was mugged in Brussels
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    Seems to be some negative mutterings from backbenchers on this reshuffle.
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215

    Seems to be some negative mutterings from backbenchers on this reshuffle.

    Can't think why.
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    What time is the next reshuffle?
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited November 2017
    Well that's a surprise.

    However, I'm not at all confident that this is the end of the gropegate fallout. The distressing fact of the matter is the government is falling apart, and the PM is not really in a position to do much about it, even if she were temperamentally suited to do so. Unfortunately she isn't, she'll continue to react on this and other issues by one-off decisions to deal with the immediate problem but without any over-reaching strategy or attempt to seize the initiative.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,405
    Dura_Ace said:

    Tom Newton Dunn‏VERIFIED ACCOUNT @tnewtondunn 1 min1 minute ago

    Breaking: New Defence Secretary is Gavin Williamson - the Chief Whip! Wow.


    Meh, May plays it timid and safe

    What does Rory the tory have to do to get a proper job?
    A bloody good question.
    Why is RS the vessel into which all tory hopes and dreams are poured? What's so great about him?
    He is one of those people, similar to Dan Jarvis on the Lab side, onto which people project hopes and expectations in the absence of anyone who has any real substance.

    Up close, of course, these people simply don't have it. Yet.

    Why, you ask? His (and DJ's) profile is such that he ticks a lot of boxes. I fear for RS he may look a little Robin Cook-ish to be PM.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,405
    Don't forget, DD created the role, and then appointed himself Brexit Secretary.
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    What time is the next reshuffle?

    Same time tomorrow?

    I would say may must he confident that no other minster is likely to be in trouble, but this is may we are talking about.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    JohnO said:

    Seems to be some negative mutterings from backbenchers on this reshuffle.

    Can't think why.
    Sour grapes for brunch ?
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920

    Well that's a surprise.

    However, I'm not at all confident that this is the end of the gropegate fallout. The distressing fact of the matter is the government is falling apart, and the PM is not really in a position to do much about it, even if she were temperamentally suited to do so. Unfortunately she isn't, she'll continue to react on this and other issues by one-off decisions to deal with the immediate problem but without any over-reaching strategy or attempt to seize the initiative.

    When should they get her out?
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950

    Seems to be some negative mutterings from backbenchers on this reshuffle.

    For the same reason those who remain on the back benches always complain about ministerial reshuffles!
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    Is that it ? A sex scandal prompts a surprise resignation and then the Chief Whip appoints himself to the vacancy ? Very Frank Underwood. Is May really so weak ?
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920

    Is that it ? A sex scandal prompts a surprise resignation and then the Chief Whip appoints himself to the vacancy ? Very Frank Underwood. Is May really so weak ?

    Yes?
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    GIN1138 said:

    Well that's a surprise.

    However, I'm not at all confident that this is the end of the gropegate fallout. The distressing fact of the matter is the government is falling apart, and the PM is not really in a position to do much about it, even if she were temperamentally suited to do so. Unfortunately she isn't, she'll continue to react on this and other issues by one-off decisions to deal with the immediate problem but without any over-reaching strategy or attempt to seize the initiative.

    When should they get her out?
    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/926047500808704001
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    Well that's a surprise.

    However, I'm not at all confident that this is the end of the gropegate fallout. The distressing fact of the matter is the government is falling apart, and the PM is not really in a position to do much about it, even if she were temperamentally suited to do so. Unfortunately she isn't, she'll continue to react on this and other issues by one-off decisions to deal with the immediate problem but without any over-reaching strategy or attempt to seize the initiative.

    So Mrs May has lost you and JohnO today.

    She’s doomed.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited November 2017
    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Tom Newton Dunn‏VERIFIED ACCOUNT @tnewtondunn 1 min1 minute ago

    Breaking: New Defence Secretary is Gavin Williamson - the Chief Whip! Wow.


    Meh, May plays it timid and safe

    What does Rory the tory have to do to get a proper job?
    A bloody good question.
    Why is RS the vessel into which all tory hopes and dreams are poured? What's so great about him?
    He is one of those people, similar to Dan Jarvis on the Lab side, onto which people project hopes and expectations in the absence of anyone who has any real substance.

    Up close, of course, these people simply don't have it. Yet.

    Why, you ask? His (and DJ's) profile is such that he ticks a lot of boxes. I fear for RS he may look a little Robin Cook-ish to be PM.
    Rory's back story is quite incredible and there isn't any leading tories with his experience / knowledge on one of the most defining issues at the present time. That doesnt mean PM material, but a minister with day to day impact on tackking islamic extremism seems a no brainier.
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215

    Well that's a surprise.

    However, I'm not at all confident that this is the end of the gropegate fallout. The distressing fact of the matter is the government is falling apart, and the PM is not really in a position to do much about it, even if she were temperamentally suited to do so. Unfortunately she isn't, she'll continue to react on this and other issues by one-off decisions to deal with the immediate problem but without any over-reaching strategy or attempt to seize the initiative.

    Yup, dismal desultory drift, drift, drift to certain oblivion and PM Corbyn.
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    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Tom Newton Dunn‏VERIFIED ACCOUNT @tnewtondunn 1 min1 minute ago

    Breaking: New Defence Secretary is Gavin Williamson - the Chief Whip! Wow.


    Meh, May plays it timid and safe

    What does Rory the tory have to do to get a proper job?
    A bloody good question.
    Why is RS the vessel into which all tory hopes and dreams are poured? What's so great about him?
    He is one of those people, similar to Dan Jarvis on the Lab side, onto which people project hopes and expectations in the absence of anyone who has any real substance.

    Up close, of course, these people simply don't have it. Yet.

    Why, you ask? His (and DJ's) profile is such that he ticks a lot of boxes. I fear for RS he may look a little Robin Cook-ish to be PM.
    Rory's back story is quite incredible and there isn't any leading tories with his experience / knowledge on one of the most defining issues at the present time. That doesnt mean PM material, but a minister with day to day impact on tackking islamic extremism seems a no brainier.
    Precisely.
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    GIN1138 said:

    Well that's a surprise.

    However, I'm not at all confident that this is the end of the gropegate fallout. The distressing fact of the matter is the government is falling apart, and the PM is not really in a position to do much about it, even if she were temperamentally suited to do so. Unfortunately she isn't, she'll continue to react on this and other issues by one-off decisions to deal with the immediate problem but without any over-reaching strategy or attempt to seize the initiative.

    When should they get her out?
    When they've (a) got a credible candidate to replace her, and (b) have an agreed and defensible position on the Brexit negotiations; Neither looks likely to be the case soon. Any new leader, of those currently in the cabinet, would simply inherit all of Mrs May's problems and not be in much of a better position to address them.

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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,405

    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Tom Newton Dunn‏VERIFIED ACCOUNT @tnewtondunn 1 min1 minute ago

    Breaking: New Defence Secretary is Gavin Williamson - the Chief Whip! Wow.


    Meh, May plays it timid and safe

    What does Rory the tory have to do to get a proper job?
    A bloody good question.
    Why is RS the vessel into which all tory hopes and dreams are poured? What's so great about him?
    He is one of those people, similar to Dan Jarvis on the Lab side, onto which people project hopes and expectations in the absence of anyone who has any real substance.

    Up close, of course, these people simply don't have it. Yet.

    Why, you ask? His (and DJ's) profile is such that he ticks a lot of boxes. I fear for RS he may look a little Robin Cook-ish to be PM.
    Rory's back story is quite incredible and there isn't any leading tories with his experience / knowledge on one of the most defining issues at the present time. That doesnt mean PM material, but a minister with day to day impact on tackking islamic extremism seems a no brainier.
    Don't disagree. But as you say doesn't make him PM material.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,039



    Rory's back story is quite incredible and there isn't any leading tories with his experience / knowledge on one of the most defining issues at the present time. That doesnt mean PM material, but a minister with day to day impact on tackking islamic extremism seems a no brainier.

    Everything with which he was professionally involved on that front has gone horribly wrong so maybe not.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Tom Newton Dunn‏VERIFIED ACCOUNT @tnewtondunn 1 min1 minute ago

    Breaking: New Defence Secretary is Gavin Williamson - the Chief Whip! Wow.


    Meh, May plays it timid and safe

    What does Rory the tory have to do to get a proper job?
    A bloody good question.
    Why is RS the vessel into which all tory hopes and dreams are poured? What's so great about him?
    He is one of those people, similar to Dan Jarvis on the Lab side, onto which people project hopes and expectations in the absence of anyone who has any real substance.

    Up close, of course, these people simply don't have it. Yet.

    Why, you ask? His (and DJ's) profile is such that he ticks a lot of boxes. I fear for RS he may look a little Robin Cook-ish to be PM.
    Rory's back story is quite incredible and there isn't any leading tories with his experience / knowledge on one of the most defining issues at the present time. That doesnt mean PM material, but a minister with day to day impact on tackking islamic extremism seems a no brainier.
    He does seem to have risen without trace, though. We all gasped at the back story back in 2010, but the only times I've been aware of him since then have been when people have asked "What does Rory the tory have to do to get a proper job?"
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    NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    edited November 2017

    Well that's a surprise.

    However, I'm not at all confident that this is the end of the gropegate fallout. The distressing fact of the matter is the government is falling apart, and the PM is not really in a position to do much about it, even if she were temperamentally suited to do so. Unfortunately she isn't, she'll continue to react on this and other issues by one-off decisions to deal with the immediate problem but without any over-reaching strategy or attempt to seize the initiative.

    Yes unfortunately it is all too reminiscent of the Major government after September 1992. Only difference is for the May government it is unlikely to be such a long drawn out affair
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,608
    edited November 2017


    Nick Timothy has always shown such excellent judgment in the past.

    Oh.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    edited November 2017
    I don't get this appointment.
    The Tories have tonnes of MPs with military experience (Rory, Mercer), cabinet ministers that would have made good choices in related diagonally down positions (DFid) and ministers where defence would have been a logical progression upward from their current roll (Ellwood).
    Not to mention the opportunity for a wide ranging reshuffle that is sorely needed (Boris etc).

    Yet WIlliamson has been appointed that satisfies precisely zero of those criteria ?!
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    Give it five minutes and it'll emerge the ' Spreadsheet ' said to have been compiled by researchers had Whips infomation on it. And if you read it carefully some of the more bizarre entries certainly read like that. The Underwood references are the most obvious and amusing but as suggested below Williamson may be attempting to do a John Major. Pound shop or otherwise.
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    Nick Timothy has always shown such excellent judgment in the past.

    Oh.
    I LOL’d when I saw the tweet of him endorsing this. Right now the reaction to this appointment (aside from Timothy) seems to be wholly negative. This guy looks like he might be trouble.....
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    I, for one, am shocked that May appears to have made an error in judgement.
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    Pulpstar said:

    I don't get this appointment.
    The Tories have tonnes of MPs with military experience (Rory, Mercer), cabinet ministers that would have made good choices in related diagonally down positions (DFid) and ministers where defence would have been a logical progression upward from their current roll (Ellwood).
    Not to mention the opportunity for a wide ranging reshuffle that is sorely needed (Boris etc).

    Yet WIlliamson has been appointed that satisfies precisely zero of those criteria ?!

    The appointment of Williamson meets all the criteria of the person who appears to have made it. Gavin Williamson.
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    I, for one, am shocked that May appears to have made an error in judgement.


    Indeed. Very unusual.

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    I, for one, am shocked that May appears to have made an error in judgement.

    I did warn you all.
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    TonyETonyE Posts: 938



    Nick Timothy has always shown such excellent judgment in the past.

    Oh.
    Does seem like the current cabinet are very loose with their tongues. Is there another agenda here I wonder? Weaken, replace, reverse?
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    TonyE said:



    Nick Timothy has always shown such excellent judgment in the past.

    Oh.
    Does seem like the current cabinet are very loose with their tongues. Is there another agenda here I wonder? Weaken, replace, reverse?
    Yup, even David Davis admitted Brexit is going to shaft us all.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,405
    edited November 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    I don't get this appointment.
    The Tories have tonnes of MPs with military experience (Rory, Mercer), cabinet ministers that would have made good choices in related diagonally down positions (DFid) and ministers where defence would have been a logical progression upward from their current roll (Ellwood).
    Not to mention the opportunity for a wide ranging reshuffle that is sorely needed (Boris etc).

    Yet WIlliamson has been appointed that satisfies precisely zero of those criteria ?!

    Yet again, in trying not to rock the boat, she has misunderestimated (badly) the effect on those people not within her small coterie to whom, I have no doubt, it represented a masterstroke of strategic political planning.
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    Pulpstar said:

    I don't get this appointment.
    The Tories have tonnes of MPs with military experience (Rory, Mercer), cabinet ministers that would have made good choices in related diagonally down positions (DFid) and ministers where defence would have been a logical progression upward from their current roll (Ellwood).
    Not to mention the opportunity for a wide ranging reshuffle that is sorely needed (Boris etc).

    Yet WIlliamson has been appointed that satisfies precisely zero of those criteria ?!

    The appointment of Williamson meets all the criteria of the person who appears to have made it. Gavin Williamson.
    https://twitter.com/hrtbps/status/926047324782112768
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    TonyETonyE Posts: 938

    TonyE said:



    Nick Timothy has always shown such excellent judgment in the past.

    Oh.
    Does seem like the current cabinet are very loose with their tongues. Is there another agenda here I wonder? Weaken, replace, reverse?
    Yup, even David Davis admitted Brexit is going to shaft us all.
    Will the real AC Grayling please stand up ;-)
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    Give it five minutes and it'll emerge the ' Spreadsheet ' said to have been compiled by researchers had Whips infomation on it. And if you read it carefully some of the more bizarre entries certainly read like that. The Underwood references are the most obvious and amusing but as suggested below Williamson may be attempting to do a John Major. Pound shop or otherwise.

    You might think that, but I couldn't possibly comment.
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    NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    TonyE said:



    Nick Timothy has always shown such excellent judgment in the past.

    Oh.
    Does seem like the current cabinet are very loose with their tongues. Is there another agenda here I wonder? Weaken, replace, reverse?
    As Richard N said I don't think there's any cunning masterplan/overarching strategy at all. Unfortunately it's the leadership deficiencies of TM that are being exposed.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,208
    Pulpstar said:

    I don't get this appointment.
    The Tories have tonnes of MPs with military experience (Rory, Mercer), cabinet ministers that would have made good choices in related diagonally down positions (DFid) and ministers where defence would have been a logical progression upward from their current roll (Ellwood).
    Not to mention the opportunity for a wide ranging reshuffle that is sorely needed (Boris etc).

    Yet WIlliamson has been appointed that satisfies precisely zero of those criteria ?!

    I doubt the military would want an ex-military MoD.
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    TonyE said:

    TonyE said:



    Nick Timothy has always shown such excellent judgment in the past.

    Oh.
    Does seem like the current cabinet are very loose with their tongues. Is there another agenda here I wonder? Weaken, replace, reverse?
    Yup, even David Davis admitted Brexit is going to shaft us all.
    Will the real AC Grayling please stand up ;-)
    I'm pro Brexit.

    The economic damage will be worth it, it will force us to spend within our means.

    It'll also disproportionately hit poor people too and not the middle classes, bonus.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920
    edited November 2017
    So it seems this Gavin Williamson character is about as popular as a bowel of cold sick with Tories.

    Is this how Boris becomes leader when the leadership contest is held? We finally have someone even more unpopular with the backbenches than Boris so BJ becomes the "ABG" (Anyone But Gav) candidate? :D
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    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    Pulpstar said:

    Yet WIlliamson has been appointed that satisfies precisely zero of those criteria ?!

    It satisfies the criteria of keeping happy a man with the dirt on everyone else...

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    There's never anything more amusing than reading secondhand thwarted rage on twitter of disappointed would-be applicants for a job. Gavin Williamson now has to prove himself.

    No one now talks about George Osborne's lack of experience as a newspaper editor. But the FURY from journalists when it was announced was just as enjoyable.
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    GIN1138 said:

    So it seems this Gavin Williamson character is about as popular as a bowel of cold sick with Tories.

    I don't think he's unpopular as such, it's the appointment to such a senior position, and for which he's much less qualified than others, which is going down so badly.
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    I do wonder if there's the whiff of sour grapes in this. Unless Williamson was confined to the Chief Whip's office for ever, where else could he be reasonably moved to but another cabinet post, when he's done a pretty decent job as CW in challenging circumstances?
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    RhubarbRhubarb Posts: 359
    edited November 2017
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't get this appointment.
    The Tories have tonnes of MPs with military experience (Rory, Mercer), cabinet ministers that would have made good choices in related diagonally down positions (DFid) and ministers where defence would have been a logical progression upward from their current roll (Ellwood).
    Not to mention the opportunity for a wide ranging reshuffle that is sorely needed (Boris etc).

    Yet WIlliamson has been appointed that satisfies precisely zero of those criteria ?!

    I doubt the military would want an ex-military MoD.
    I may be mistaken but, until Blair, wasn't it tradition that the MoD got an ex-military man?

    Of course, that was far easier for the war generations.
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    TonyETonyE Posts: 938
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't get this appointment.
    The Tories have tonnes of MPs with military experience (Rory, Mercer), cabinet ministers that would have made good choices in related diagonally down positions (DFid) and ministers where defence would have been a logical progression upward from their current roll (Ellwood).
    Not to mention the opportunity for a wide ranging reshuffle that is sorely needed (Boris etc).

    Yet WIlliamson has been appointed that satisfies precisely zero of those criteria ?!

    I doubt the military would want an ex-military MoD.
    Inter service rivalry. The idea of appointing a military man risks upsetting the other two services in which he didn't serve. Appoint a neutral, try to keep the rivalry under control.
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    I do wonder if there's the whiff of sour grapes in this. Unless Williamson was confined to the Chief Whip's office for ever, where else could he be reasonably moved to but another cabinet post, when he's done a pretty decent job as CW in challenging circumstances?
    Re your last sentence, Nah, he's done poorly, I'm sorry but ducking out of votes isn't doing a decent job as Chief Whip.
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    GIN1138 said:

    So it seems this Gavin Williamson character is about as popular as a bowel of cold sick with Tories.

    I don't think he's unpopular as such, it's the appointment to such a senior position, and for which he's much less qualified than others, which is going down so badly.
    He obviously has one key qualification that others don't have: the ear of the Prime Minister.
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    A friend texts

    Theresa May is Caligula and Gavin Williamson is Incitatus.
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    He obviously has one key qualification that others don't have: the ear of the Prime Minister.

    Certainly, and that is part of the problem.
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    I do wonder if there's the whiff of sour grapes in this. Unless Williamson was confined to the Chief Whip's office for ever, where else could he be reasonably moved to but another cabinet post, when he's done a pretty decent job as CW in challenging circumstances?
    The whiff? All we're getting now is the foaming and raging of the spurned.

    Mr Williamson may or may not be up to the job but we're not hearing anything this morning to inform us on that subject.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,608
    edited November 2017
    From the man sacked by Michael Howard for lying to him about an affair.

    https://twitter.com/BBCNormanS/status/926054675832598528
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    I do wonder if there's the whiff of sour grapes in this. Unless Williamson was confined to the Chief Whip's office for ever, where else could he be reasonably moved to but another cabinet post, when he's done a pretty decent job as CW in challenging circumstances?
    I think many are worried about him having the dirt on a lot of people (allegedly) tbh. I think that’s what’s behind this reaction. Although Nick Timothy seems to think that this is a good appointment, which in itself is alarming. Allegedly he wants to be PM as well, not sure that’s he’s right choice for that role. I did find this tweet describing him by Kevin Maguire pretty funny:

    https://twitter.com/kevin_maguire/status/926035277302435842
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    We do bet. But there are two sides to every bet...
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    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852

    GIN1138 said:

    So it seems this Gavin Williamson character is about as popular as a bowel of cold sick with Tories.

    I don't think he's unpopular as such, it's the appointment to such a senior position, and for which he's much less qualified than others, which is going down so badly.
    He obviously has one key qualification that others don't have: the ear of the Prime Minister.
    or a good grip somewhere else, paraphrasing Chuck Coulson ;)
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    YellowSubmarineYellowSubmarine Posts: 2,740
    edited November 2017
    @David_Herdson Of course it's sour grapes. But the grapes have a lot to be sour about. This was triggered by intraparty infomation ( the Spreadsheet ) being leaked then the Chief Whip appointing himself to the subsequently vacant job. It's open to the interpretation of being a False Flag attack. Whether it is or not doesn't matter in the current febrile environment. May needed momentum from this change. Instead she'll get a process story.
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    Mr. Eagles, text back that Incitatus' stable was decorated with purple cloth but he was never actually made consul.

    You may also want to add that Williamson as Sejanus and May as Tiberius is a better analogy.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920

    From the man sacked by Michael Howard for lying to him about an affair.

    https://twitter.com/BBCNormanS/status/926054675832598528

    You do have to admire Boris for his sheer cheek! :D
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    TonyETonyE Posts: 938
    Rhubarb said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't get this appointment.
    The Tories have tonnes of MPs with military experience (Rory, Mercer), cabinet ministers that would have made good choices in related diagonally down positions (DFid) and ministers where defence would have been a logical progression upward from their current roll (Ellwood).
    Not to mention the opportunity for a wide ranging reshuffle that is sorely needed (Boris etc).

    Yet WIlliamson has been appointed that satisfies precisely zero of those criteria ?!

    I doubt the military would want an ex-military MoD.
    I may be mistaken but, until Blair, wasn't it tradition that the MoD got an ex-military man?

    Of course, that was far easier for the war generations.
    Not really, George Younger, Tom King, Malcolm Rifkind, Poprtillo,
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    We need one of those graphs Mike quotes, on Williamson's odds as Next PM / Next Con leader. All over the place this morning. He traded under 10 on Betfair this morning, before bouncing back out to the high teens. He has been backed at as long as 600 though, which would be a nice ticket to hold.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,170
    Interesting decision by May to appoint Gavin Williamson and a sensible promotion of some young talent up the Cabinet ranks.
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    0.5%
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    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    TonyE said:

    Rhubarb said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't get this appointment.
    The Tories have tonnes of MPs with military experience (Rory, Mercer), cabinet ministers that would have made good choices in related diagonally down positions (DFid) and ministers where defence would have been a logical progression upward from their current roll (Ellwood).
    Not to mention the opportunity for a wide ranging reshuffle that is sorely needed (Boris etc).

    Yet WIlliamson has been appointed that satisfies precisely zero of those criteria ?!

    I doubt the military would want an ex-military MoD.
    I may be mistaken but, until Blair, wasn't it tradition that the MoD got an ex-military man?

    Of course, that was far easier for the war generations.
    Not really, George Younger, Tom King, Malcolm Rifkind, Poprtillo,
    King served as an officer in the Somerset Light Infantry
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,904
    According to a journalist on the ES there was no safe space for women's legs when Fallon was about.

    I wonder whether they asked Ann Widdicombe?


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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,921

    We need one of those graphs Mike quotes, on Williamson's odds as Next PM / Next Con leader. All over the place this morning. He traded under 10 on Betfair this morning, before bouncing back out to the high teens. He has been backed at as long as 600 though, which would be a nice ticket to hold.

    I got on at 139/1 earlier ... have taken a few gains since then but still long him.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920

    0.5%

    First rate rise for a decade?
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,405

    He obviously has one key qualification that others don't have: the ear of the Prime Minister.

    Certainly, and that is part of the problem.
    Exactly. This is the essence of it. TMay has long been a micro-manager who has not trusted or allowed anyone outside a small number of people the scope to do anything without her consent. This became evident at the GE and has now manifested itself with this appointment. It is, sadly, a sign of weakness and one that makes her leadership more brittle.

    That is the reason for the texts - not sour grapes, but frustration that she remains in her small world excluding all others.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,170

    0.5%

    Yes interest rate rise confirmed
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920
    edited November 2017
    Roger said:

    According to a journalist on the ES there was no safe space for women's legs when Fallon was about.


    I can't believe he was that bad. Something would have come out about him before...

    He's made a lot of powerful enemies over the years (remember he was always the one to go on telly and attack Labour/Ed Miliband, etc)

    If he was that well known as a sex-pest something would've come out about him years ago.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,170

    Well that's a surprise.

    However, I'm not at all confident that this is the end of the gropegate fallout. The distressing fact of the matter is the government is falling apart, and the PM is not really in a position to do much about it, even if she were temperamentally suited to do so. Unfortunately she isn't, she'll continue to react on this and other issues by one-off decisions to deal with the immediate problem but without any over-reaching strategy or attempt to seize the initiative.

    So Mrs May has lost you and JohnO today.

    She’s doomed.
    Not necessarily given both backed Remain
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    Mr. Nabavi, cue yet more ridiculous hyperbolic bedwetting from the media over the horror of 0.5% interest rates.
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    TonyE said:



    Nick Timothy has always shown such excellent judgment in the past.

    Oh.
    Does seem like the current cabinet are very loose with their tongues. Is there another agenda here I wonder? Weaken, replace, reverse?
    Yup, even David Davis admitted Brexit is going to shaft us all.
    Why not tell the public to FO? That would be genuine leadership.

    TonyE said:

    TonyE said:



    Nick Timothy has always shown such excellent judgment in the past.

    Oh.
    Does seem like the current cabinet are very loose with their tongues. Is there another agenda here I wonder? Weaken, replace, reverse?
    Yup, even David Davis admitted Brexit is going to shaft us all.
    Will the real AC Grayling please stand up ;-)
    I'm pro Brexit.

    The economic damage will be worth it, it will force us to spend within our means.

    It'll also disproportionately hit poor people too and not the middle classes, bonus.
    Of course, it might lead to Corbyn as well so everybody’s ******. Still, I’m sure that it’s worth it in some vague, Viz-level philosophical way.
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    TonyETonyE Posts: 938

    TonyE said:

    Rhubarb said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't get this appointment.
    The Tories have tonnes of MPs with military experience (Rory, Mercer), cabinet ministers that would have made good choices in related diagonally down positions (DFid) and ministers where defence would have been a logical progression upward from their current roll (Ellwood).
    Not to mention the opportunity for a wide ranging reshuffle that is sorely needed (Boris etc).

    Yet WIlliamson has been appointed that satisfies precisely zero of those criteria ?!

    I doubt the military would want an ex-military MoD.
    I may be mistaken but, until Blair, wasn't it tradition that the MoD got an ex-military man?

    Of course, that was far easier for the war generations.
    Not really, George Younger, Tom King, Malcolm Rifkind, Poprtillo,
    King served as an officer in the Somerset Light Infantry
    Yes, missed that - I stand corrected. But I think the rule holds, it was never a position traditionally set aside for an ex military man by wrote, just that in the 20th C many had served due to the prevailing history - rather than having been career military men.
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    In the BBC2 docudrama Theresa v Boris: How May Became PM, Williamson was played by the actor Daniel Casey. He was portrayed as a ruthless, Malcolm Tucker-esque Machiavel. “I’ll fire you, then I’ll fucking castrate you, all right?” he warned one Tory MP who failed to vote for May in the first round of the leadership contest. The impression of menace was enhanced by the appearance of a pet tarantula.

    Williamson keeps the spider in a glass box on his desk. Cronus, as it is known, was named after a Greek god who castrated his father and ate his children. The parliamentary authorities demanded that Williamson expel the spider, but his team convinced them otherwise. “You have to look at different ways to persuade people to vote with the government,” Williamson has said. “Cronus is a perfect example of an incredibly clean, ruthless killer.”

    https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/926034360062631936
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    The interest rate decision was 7-2, which is a bit of a surprise.
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    RhubarbRhubarb Posts: 359
    TonyE said:

    Rhubarb said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't get this appointment.
    The Tories have tonnes of MPs with military experience (Rory, Mercer), cabinet ministers that would have made good choices in related diagonally down positions (DFid) and ministers where defence would have been a logical progression upward from their current roll (Ellwood).
    Not to mention the opportunity for a wide ranging reshuffle that is sorely needed (Boris etc).

    Yet WIlliamson has been appointed that satisfies precisely zero of those criteria ?!

    I doubt the military would want an ex-military MoD.
    I may be mistaken but, until Blair, wasn't it tradition that the MoD got an ex-military man?

    Of course, that was far easier for the war generations.
    Not really, George Younger, Tom King, Malcolm Rifkind, Poprtillo,
    I stand corrected.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920


    In the BBC2 docudrama Theresa v Boris: How May Became PM, Williamson was played by the actor Daniel Casey. He was portrayed as a ruthless, Malcolm Tucker-esque Machiavel. “I’ll fire you, then I’ll fucking castrate you, all right?” he warned one Tory MP who failed to vote for May in the first round of the leadership contest. The impression of menace was enhanced by the appearance of a pet tarantula.

    Williamson keeps the spider in a glass box on his desk. Cronus, as it is known, was named after a Greek god who castrated his father and ate his children. The parliamentary authorities demanded that Williamson expel the spider, but his team convinced them otherwise. “You have to look at different ways to persuade people to vote with the government,” Williamson has said. “Cronus is a perfect example of an incredibly clean, ruthless killer.”

    https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/926034360062631936

    Sounds like a nice chap...
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    So two of the three emergency stimulus measures the Bank activated after the Referendum have now been reversed. Many tell us they weren't needed. That may be arguing the airbag wasn't needed because you didn't die but at least now we'll get more experimental data.
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    HYUFD said:

    Well that's a surprise.

    However, I'm not at all confident that this is the end of the gropegate fallout. The distressing fact of the matter is the government is falling apart, and the PM is not really in a position to do much about it, even if she were temperamentally suited to do so. Unfortunately she isn't, she'll continue to react on this and other issues by one-off decisions to deal with the immediate problem but without any over-reaching strategy or attempt to seize the initiative.

    So Mrs May has lost you and JohnO today.

    She’s doomed.
    Not necessarily given both backed Remain
    This is nothing to do with Remain/Leave/Brexit, all to do with Mrs May being crap.

    John has faithfully and wonderfully served his party for decades, that's what should worry Mrs May (and all Tories)
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    HYUFD said:

    0.5%

    Yes interest rate rise confirmed
    Don't you hate slow news days?
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    The interest rate rise from 0.25% to 0.5% simply reverses the panicked cut that took place after the 2016 EU referendum
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    The editor of the Evening Standard:

    For Mrs May, this also feels like a career-defining moment. She has now insisted that certain standards of past behaviour are not consistent with membership of her government. Mrs May will remember the “Back to Basics” farce that unwittingly engulfed the Major government in the Nineties. If what looks like a strong stand today doesn’t descend into weakness tomorrow, then she will have to enforce that ruling whatever it means for other ministers in her government. As one very senior Conservative says privately this morning: Mr Fallon’s certainly won’t be the only resignation or dismissal. That may include potentially her closest allies in a Cabinet where she has few friends. For a Prime Minister without authority or a majority, that is one hell of a political gamble.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/evening-standard-comment-michael-fallon-resignation-isn-t-the-end-of-this-storm-a3674606.html
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,170

    TonyE said:



    Nick Timothy has always shown such excellent judgment in the past.

    Oh.
    Does seem like the current cabinet are very loose with their tongues. Is there another agenda here I wonder? Weaken, replace, reverse?
    Yup, even David Davis admitted Brexit is going to shaft us all.
    Why not tell the public to FO? That would be genuine leadership.

    TonyE said:

    TonyE said:



    Nick Timothy has always shown such excellent judgment in the past.

    Oh.
    Does seem like the current cabinet are very loose with their tongues. Is there another agenda here I wonder? Weaken, replace, reverse?
    Yup, even David Davis admitted Brexit is going to shaft us all.
    Will the real AC Grayling please stand up ;-)
    I'm pro Brexit.

    The economic damage will be worth it, it will force us to spend within our means.

    It'll also disproportionately hit poor people too and not the middle classes, bonus.
    Of course, it might lead to Corbyn as well so everybody’s ******. Still, I’m sure that it’s worth it in some vague, Viz-level philosophical way.
    If anything we are heading for a Corbyn minority government which will end austerity and spend more but tax more to pay for it.

    Immigration will still fall though as he will also end free movement.
This discussion has been closed.