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Sean_F

A combined 38.5% is dire for the left wing parties.

tlg86

Second like the SPD.

It's looking pretty tasty outside the AfD HQ in Berlin.

Y0kel

Hand or Hang?

Sean_F

FPT @ Richard Nabavi, I think the US has always been a bit like the system of cuius regio, eius religio in the Holy Roman Empire. With so many diverse States, you can find one whose brand of authoritarianism is to your liking.

kle4

And to think Schulz was seen as potentially bolstering the SPD chances when he first was put forward, IIRC.

Sunil_Prasannan

Theresa 42% of the vote in 2017
Angela 32% of the vote in 2017

Fishing

Sean_F said:

A combined 38.5% is dire for the left wing parties.

33% is not great for CDU/CSU. It looks like our election: the incumbents hang on, but nobody has anything remotely describable as a mandate. At least as we Anglo-Saxons understand it.

RobD

Sean_F said:

A combined 38.5% is dire for the left wing parties.

Silver linings

Birra_Moretti

Merkel wouldn't be the first German Chancellor to govern with 33 % of the vote.

Ishmael_Z

Y0kel said:

Hand or Hang?

HELLO PB EDITOR

Typo in headline

HYUFD

Fishing said:

Sean_F said:

A combined 38.5% is dire for the left wing parties.

33% is not great for CDU/CSU. It looks like our election: the incumbents hang on, but nobody has anything remotely describable as a mandate. At least as we Anglo-Saxons understand it.

Not that dissimilar to NZ yesterday either, main conservative party wins but loses seats and voteshare, and in the 2 elections this weekend an anti immigration party has come 3rd

Sunil_Prasannan

Ishmael_Z said:

Y0kel said:

Hand or Hang?

HELLO PB EDITOR

Typo in headline

No,no! She will hand on the leadership to, um, somebody?

Birra_Moretti

Ishmael_Z said:

Y0kel said:

Hand or Hang?

HELLO PB EDITOR

Typo in headline

Also Angela not Angerla.

Sean_F

Birra_Moretti said:

Merkel wouldn't be the first German Chancellor to govern with 33 % of the vote.

LOL!

williamglenn

Schulz is really making a fool of himself on TV at the moment.

Big_G_NorthWales

Didn't Farage campaign for the AFD. Has anyone heard from him

See Dianne Abbott had yet another car crash interview today - when is someone going to be kind and put her on the back benches

MikeSmithson

Ishmael_Z said:

Y0kel said:

Hand or Hang?

HELLO PB EDITOR

Typo in headline

Thanks you. Tonight's deliberate mistake.

Just got back from hols and dealing with a mountain of mail

Sunil_Prasannan

Birra_Moretti said:

Ishmael_Z said:

Y0kel said:

Hand or Hang?

HELLO PB EDITOR

Typo in headline

Also Angela not Angerla.

No, not a typo! Angela is angry that AfD did so well...

Big_G_NorthWales

williamglenn said:

Schulz is really making a fool of himself on TV at the moment.

So nothing changed then

MaxPB

williamglenn said:

Schulz is really making a fool of himself on TV at the moment.

Lol. Your dream is dying in front of you.

Big_G_NorthWales

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Birra_Moretti said:

Ishmael_Z said:

Y0kel said:

Hand or Hang?

HELLO PB EDITOR

Typo in headline

Also Angela not Angerla.

No, not a typo! Angela is angry that AfD did so well...

And in her back yard

williamglenn

MaxPB said:

williamglenn said:

Schulz is really making a fool of himself on TV at the moment.

Lol. Your dream is dying in front of you.

How so?

Sean_F

Angela Merkel's endless tacking leftwards appeals to a majority of Germans at any point in time, but alienates big minorities on the economically liberal right, and the socially conservative right.

welshowl

williamglenn said:

Schulz is really making a fool of himself on TV at the moment.

What's he doing?

MaxPB

williamglenn said:

MaxPB said:

williamglenn said:

Schulz is really making a fool of himself on TV at the moment.

Lol. Your dream is dying in front of you.

How so?

The chance of a federalist leading Germany is now lower than ever.

williamglenn

MaxPB said:

williamglenn said:

MaxPB said:

williamglenn said:

Schulz is really making a fool of himself on TV at the moment.

Lol. Your dream is dying in front of you.

How so?

The chance of a federalist leading Germany is now lower than ever.

I never supported Schulz.

Btw, his performance on TV is getting worse. More embarrassing than Schroeder in 2005.

Casino_Royale

Merkel has only herself to blame.

kle4

williamglenn said:

MaxPB said:

williamglenn said:

MaxPB said:

williamglenn said:

Schulz is really making a fool of himself on TV at the moment.

Lol. Your dream is dying in front of you.

How so?

The chance of a federalist leading Germany is now lower than ever.

I never supported Schulz.

Btw, his performance on TV is getting worse. More embarrassing than Schroeder in 2005.

What did Schroeder do?

RobD

williamglenn said:

MaxPB said:

williamglenn said:

MaxPB said:

williamglenn said:

Schulz is really making a fool of himself on TV at the moment.

Lol. Your dream is dying in front of you.

How so?

The chance of a federalist leading Germany is now lower than ever.

I never supported Schulz.

Btw, his performance on TV is getting worse. More embarrassing than Schroeder in 2005.

What's he up to?

Birra_Moretti

williamglenn said:

MaxPB said:

williamglenn said:

MaxPB said:

williamglenn said:

Schulz is really making a fool of himself on TV at the moment.

Lol. Your dream is dying in front of you.

How so?

The chance of a federalist leading Germany is now lower than ever.

I never supported Schulz.

Btw, his performance on TV is getting worse. More embarrassing than Schroeder in 2005.

Is he intoxicated ?

MaxPB

williamglenn said:

MaxPB said:

williamglenn said:

MaxPB said:

williamglenn said:

Schulz is really making a fool of himself on TV at the moment.

Lol. Your dream is dying in front of you.

How so?

The chance of a federalist leading Germany is now lower than ever.

I never supported Schulz.

Btw, his performance on TV is getting worse. More embarrassing than Schroeder in 2005.

But you did support Merkel and she's lead the CDU to their worst result for a decade.

williamglenn

welshowl said:

williamglenn said:

Schulz is really making a fool of himself on TV at the moment.

What's he doing?

They have a discussion round with all the party leaders and he's generally acting like a sore loser, interrupting everyone and not acting like a serious leader.

Big_G_NorthWales

Birra_Moretti said:

williamglenn said:

MaxPB said:

williamglenn said:

MaxPB said:

williamglenn said:

Schulz is really making a fool of himself on TV at the moment.

Lol. Your dream is dying in front of you.

How so?

The chance of a federalist leading Germany is now lower than ever.

I never supported Schulz.

Btw, his performance on TV is getting worse. More embarrassing than Schroeder in 2005.

Is he intoxicated ?

Something in common with Juncker's then - all the free booze at EU taxpayers expense

Sean_F

Casino_Royale said:

Merkel has only herself to blame.

She's the most left wing leader the CDU have ever had, and the voters are reacting to that.

Casino_Royale

Birra_Moretti said:

Merkel wouldn't be the first German Chancellor to govern with 33 % of the vote.

Harsh.

surbiton

Of course, she will be there. Four more years !

glw

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Something in common with Juncker's then - all the free booze at EU taxpayers expense

I wouldn't mind hearing what he has to say right about now.

Casino_Royale

Sean_F said:

Angela Merkel's endless tacking leftwards appeals to a majority of Germans at any point in time, but alienates big minorities on the economically liberal right, and the socially conservative right.

She is like a German female George Osborne following the agenda of Ed Miliband.

MaxPB

surbiton said:

Of course, she will be there. Four more years !

Lol, she's done. The CDU will swing to the right and Merkel can't do that.

Big_G_NorthWales

glw said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Something in common with Juncker's then - all the free booze at EU taxpayers expense

I wouldn't mind hearing what he has to say right about now.

Pass me another bottle

surbiton

Sean_F said:

Casino_Royale said:

Merkel has only herself to blame.

She's the most left wing leader the CDU have ever had, and the voters are reacting to that.

Was she right wing last time ? You do talk through your back-side.

Casino_Royale

Can't stop laughing at the German federal election result.

Perhaps she'll deal with May now with a bit more humility.

kle4

So presumably the last election for Merkel - 12-16 years is not a bad run for an elected politician though.

Alanbrooke

williamglenn said:

welshowl said:

williamglenn said:

Schulz is really making a fool of himself on TV at the moment.

What's he doing?

They have a discussion round with all the party leaders and he's generally acting like a sore loser, interrupting everyone and not acting like a serious leader.

He's spent all his time in the EU parlt telling others what to do

he doesnt understand debate

MaxPB

Casino_Royale said:

Can't stop laughing at the German federal election result.

Perhaps she'll deal with May now with a bit more humility.

I doubt it. If anything she will try and assert herself on the international stage instead of fixing her domestic problems. One imagines that the average AfD voter sympathises with or supports Brexit, but she probably doesn't want to see it.

Big_G_NorthWales

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

Can't stop laughing at the German federal election result.

Perhaps she'll deal with May now with a bit more humility.

I doubt it. If anything she will try and assert herself on the international stage instead of fixing her domestic problems. One imagines that the average AfD voter sympathises with or supports Brexit, but she probably doesn't want to see it.

Yet another unpredictable result - they just go on and on but do show how far politicians have left behind millions of voters

Alanbrooke

Casino_Royale said:

Can't stop laughing at the German federal election result.

Perhaps she'll deal with May now with a bit more humility.

young Macron might not get his bottom spanked now

tlg86

kle4 said:

So presumably the last election for Merkel - 12-16 years is not a bad run for an elected politician though.

Depends how they leave the country compared with how it was when they took charge.

Casino_Royale

Jamaican blobsled team, or Munich Beer Hall Putsch?

kle4

MaxPB said:

surbiton said:

Of course, she will be there. Four more years !

Lol, she's done. The CDU will swing to the right and Merkel can't do that.

Can she not? I'd always thought of Merkel as having no firm ideology, being all about compromise to achieve as wide a support as possible, but admittedly I know nothing about German politics.

kle4

tlg86 said:

kle4 said:

So presumably the last election for Merkel - 12-16 years is not a bad run for an elected politician though.

Depends how they leave the country compared with how it was when they took charge.

That's how you decide if they were a success; I was merely commenting on electoral success.

viewcode

Mike, you have "Angerla" Merkel in the headline. Freudian?

HYUFD

Alanbrooke said:

Casino_Royale said:

Can't stop laughing at the German federal election result.

Perhaps she'll deal with May now with a bit more humility.

young Macron might not get his bottom spanked now

Macron has also had a bad day, En Marche came third in the French Senate elections today won by Les Republicains
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/france-macrons-party-faces-blow-senate-elections-50054150

viewcode

I so hate to interrupt the merkelbashing, but the first series of "Star Trek: Discovery" is tonight, and the title sequence is online now (unless it's fake ). Have a butchers...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU

MaxPB

kle4 said:

MaxPB said:

surbiton said:

Of course, she will be there. Four more years !

Lol, she's done. The CDU will swing to the right and Merkel can't do that.

Can she not? I'd always thought of Merkel as having no firm ideology, being all about compromise to achieve as wide a support as possible, but admittedly I know nothing about German politics.

After letting in over a million migrants and a decade of pushing socially liberal policies no one would believe her conversion.

Fenman

A traffic light coalition looks logical, but will the FDP fall for that again after their experience last time and that of their British Lib Dem allies in 2015?

Casino_Royale

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

Can't stop laughing at the German federal election result.

Perhaps she'll deal with May now with a bit more humility.

I doubt it. If anything she will try and assert herself on the international stage instead of fixing her domestic problems. One imagines that the average AfD voter sympathises with or supports Brexit, but she probably doesn't want to see it.

Yes, the Twitterati view seems to be whatever the election result in Germany it's bad for Britain, and Brexit.

Latest view from pundits (all of whom detest the AfD, of course) is that she must act even tougher on Brexit to avoid encouraging them still further.

*facepalm*

kle4

viewcode said:

I so hate to interrupt the merkelbashing, but the first series of "Star Trek: Discovery" is tonight, and the title sequence is online now (unless it's fake ). Have a butchers...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU

I hope it's good - it's been a while since we had a good Trek series.

RobD

viewcode said:

I so hate to interrupt the merkelbashing, but the first series of "Star Trek: Discovery" is tonight, and the title sequence is online now (unless it's fake ). Have a butchers...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU

I still can't get over the fact that one of the cast members described herself as the first black lead in Star Trek, completely forgetting Avery Brooks as Sisko. Especially ironic given that star trek was supposed to be beyond all that stuff.

Ishmael_Z

Casino_Royale said:

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

Can't stop laughing at the German federal election result.

Perhaps she'll deal with May now with a bit more humility.

I doubt it. If anything she will try and assert herself on the international stage instead of fixing her domestic problems. One imagines that the average AfD voter sympathises with or supports Brexit, but she probably doesn't want to see it.

Yes, the Twitterati view seems to be whatever the election result in Germany it's bad for Britain, and Brexit.

Latest view from pundits (all of whom detest the AfD, of course) is that she must act even tougher on Brexit to avoid encouraging them still further.

*facepalm*

I thought Macron's victory was meant to have drawn an ineradicable line under under Trumpy Brexity alt right naughtiness. This is not a happy result for the bien pensant.

Rhubarb

viewcode said:

I so hate to interrupt the merkelbashing, but the first series of "Star Trek: Discovery" is tonight, and the title sequence is online now (unless it's fake ). Have a butchers...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU

It's supposed to hit netflix tomorrow.

DoubleCarpet

Berlin live results:

https://www.wahlen-berlin.de/wahlen/BU2017/afspraes/erststimmen_gemeinde-11000000-berlin_gesamt.html

kle4

RobD said:

viewcode said:

I so hate to interrupt the merkelbashing, but the first series of "Star Trek: Discovery" is tonight, and the title sequence is online now (unless it's fake ). Have a butchers...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU

I still can't get over the fact that one of the cast members described herself as the first black lead in Star Trek, completely forgetting Avery Brooks as Sisko. Especially ironic given that star trek was supposed to be beyond all that stuff.

She what? I guess people just feel the need to be important. I guess first Black and Female lead, but considering Trek has has a Black lead, and a Female lead, and had a major black female character in the 60s, it feels a bit strange to act like it's a big deal.

stodge

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Yet another unpredictable result - they just go on and on but do show how far politicians have left behind millions of voters

Far from the politicians "leaving the voters behind", the desperate desire to please everyone and promise the sun, the moon and the stars has brought the voters to this point.

It's the desire to be popular whether it be Blair, Cameron, May or Merkel which has caused this. The desire to be all things to all people and create a broad but shallow constituency of support is an inherent part of democracy but works only if something can be delivered.

I would argue the failure of the prevailing economic culture and model in 2007-08 is resonating into the political culture across the western world. Still, many bang the drum for capitalism but I would argue that's not working well for many for various reasons.

Trump, AfD and Corbyn all latch on to that sense of failure and frustration but they have no answers either. We need to redefine our political and economic culture from the ground up and that means more thinking, less posturing and a willingness to challenge totems such as the desirability of tax cuts, the provision of welfare and indeed the role of work in general to name but three.

Birra_Moretti

Casino_Royale said:

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

Can't stop laughing at the German federal election result.

Perhaps she'll deal with May now with a bit more humility.

I doubt it. If anything she will try and assert herself on the international stage instead of fixing her domestic problems. One imagines that the average AfD voter sympathises with or supports Brexit, but she probably doesn't want to see it.

Yes, the Twitterati view seems to be whatever the election result in Germany it's bad for Britain, and Brexit.

Latest view from pundits (all of whom detest the AfD, of course) is that she must act even tougher on Brexit to avoid encouraging them still further.

*facepalm*

Maybe Merkel will follow Aung San Sui Kyi into the fuddyduddies' doghouse with an outrage.

kle4

stodge said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Yet another unpredictable result - they just go on and on but do show how far politicians have left behind millions of voters

Far from the politicians "leaving the voters behind", the desperate desire to please everyone and promise the sun, the moon and the stars has brought the voters to this point.

It's the desire to be popular whether it be Blair, Cameron, May or Merkel which has caused this. The desire to be all things to all people and create a broad but shallow constituency of support is an inherent part of democracy but works only if something can be delivered.

I would argue the failure of the prevailing economic culture and model in 2007-08 is resonating into the political culture across the western world. Still, many bang the drum for capitalism but I would argue that's not working well for many for various reasons.

Trump, AfD and Corbyn all latch on to that sense of failure and frustration but they have no answers either. We need to redefine our political and economic culture from the ground up and that means more thinking, less posturing and a willingness to challenge totems such as the desirability of tax cuts, the provision of welfare and indeed the role of work in general to name but three.

I'll call that a long shot. As Blair and Merkel in particular showed, it works for a long time, why would anyone try something different unless they had no choice? (and most will have other choices).

Sean_F

surbiton said:

Sean_F said:

Casino_Royale said:

Merkel has only herself to blame.

She's the most left wing leader the CDU have ever had, and the voters are reacting to that.

Was she right wing last time ? You do talk through your back-side.

She failed to win a majority last time, and had to rely on the left to govern.

Granted, you want a left wing Chancellor, but she's grinding down her own party. This is the CDU's lowest vote since 1949.

Sunil_Prasannan

kle4 said:

RobD said:

viewcode said:

I so hate to interrupt the merkelbashing, but the first series of "Star Trek: Discovery" is tonight, and the title sequence is online now (unless it's fake ). Have a butchers...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU

I still can't get over the fact that one of the cast members described herself as the first black lead in Star Trek, completely forgetting Avery Brooks as Sisko. Especially ironic given that star trek was supposed to be beyond all that stuff.

She what? I guess people just feel the need to be important. I guess first Black and Female lead, but considering Trek has has a Black lead, and a Female lead, and had a major black female character in the 60s, it feels a bit strange to act like it's a big deal.

Don't forget major Japanese character too!

glw

Ishmael_Z said:

I thought Macron's victory was meant to have drawn an ineradicable line under under Trumpy Brexity alt right naughtiness. This is not a happy result for the bien pensant.

But even the Macron victory was a rejection of politics as usual. It's not so much a right versus left issue, as an established parties versus upstarts. If there is any overall lesson it's that across the world parties and people who "can't win" are doing better than expected. People are fed up with parties of all colours and willing to give alternatives a go, or at least give the incumbents a kick up the arse.

viewcode

Rhubarb said:

viewcode said:

I so hate to interrupt the merkelbashing, but the first series of "Star Trek: Discovery" is tonight, and the title sequence is online now (unless it's fake ). Have a butchers...

h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU

It's supposed to hit netflix tomorrow.

Some time within the next 24 hrs somebody will leak it onto YouTube, or somewhere else on t'net. Which I will not look at, honest, ohdearmeno...

Alanbrooke

DoubleCarpet said:

Berlin live results:

https://www.wahlen-berlin.de/wahlen/BU2017/afspraes/erststimmen_gemeinde-11000000-berlin_gesamt.html

Berlin Marzahn

Linke first
AfD second

foxinsoxuk

Merkel in charge, either with a coalition, or in a minority government. There seems no viable alternative.

So it looks like Merkel cannot pull our Brexit nuts out of the fire. She has domestic fish to fry.

Alanbrooke

foxinsoxuk said:

Merkel in charge, either with a coalition, or in a minority government. There seems no viable alternative.

So it looks like Merkel cannot pull our Brexit nuts out of the fire. She has domestic fish to fry.

Zzzz usual Brexit bollocks

give it a break for one evening

viewcode

RobD said:

viewcode said:

I so hate to interrupt the merkelbashing, but the first series of "Star Trek: Discovery" is tonight, and the title sequence is online now (unless it's fake ). Have a butchers...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU

I still can't get over the fact that one of the cast members described herself as the first black lead in Star Trek, completely forgetting Avery Brooks as Sisko. Especially ironic given that star trek was supposed to be beyond all that stuff.

Tuvok, Uhura, Worf, LaForge... Millennials have no memory, bless 'em.

foxinsoxuk

glw said:

Ishmael_Z said:

I thought Macron's victory was meant to have drawn an ineradicable line under under Trumpy Brexity alt right naughtiness. This is not a happy result for the bien pensant.

But even the Macron victory was a rejection of politics as usual. It's not so much a right versus left issue, as an established parties versus upstarts. If there is any overall lesson it's that across the world parties and people who "can't win" are doing better than expected. People are fed up with parties of all colours and willing to give alternatives a go, or at least give the incumbents a kick up the arse.

Kicking the chair away from the establishment is a short lived atavistic pleasure. A bit like pissing your pants, a brief warm feeling followed by discomfort and embarrassment, then a mess to clean up.

The_Apocalypse

Ishmael_Z said:

Casino_Royale said:

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

Can't stop laughing at the German federal election result.

Perhaps she'll deal with May now with a bit more humility.

I doubt it. If anything she will try and assert herself on the international stage instead of fixing her domestic problems. One imagines that the average AfD voter sympathises with or supports Brexit, but she probably doesn't want to see it.

Yes, the Twitterati view seems to be whatever the election result in Germany it's bad for Britain, and Brexit.

Latest view from pundits (all of whom detest the AfD, of course) is that she must act even tougher on Brexit to avoid encouraging them still further.

*facepalm*

I thought Macron's victory was meant to have drawn an ineradicable line under under Trumpy Brexity alt right naughtiness. This is not a happy result for the bien pensant.

It's not really a happy result for anyone who is against the far right.

RobD

viewcode said:

RobD said:

viewcode said:

I so hate to interrupt the merkelbashing, but the first series of "Star Trek: Discovery" is tonight, and the title sequence is online now (unless it's fake ). Have a butchers...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU

I still can't get over the fact that one of the cast members described herself as the first black lead in Star Trek, completely forgetting Avery Brooks as Sisko. Especially ironic given that star trek was supposed to be beyond all that stuff.

Tuvok, Uhura, Worf, LaForge... Millennials have no memory, bless 'em.

And totally missing the point that race (or anything else) doesn't matter in the Trek universe.

The_Apocalypse

foxinsoxuk said:

glw said:

Ishmael_Z said:

I thought Macron's victory was meant to have drawn an ineradicable line under under Trumpy Brexity alt right naughtiness. This is not a happy result for the bien pensant.

But even the Macron victory was a rejection of politics as usual. It's not so much a right versus left issue, as an established parties versus upstarts. If there is any overall lesson it's that across the world parties and people who "can't win" are doing better than expected. People are fed up with parties of all colours and willing to give alternatives a go, or at least give the incumbents a kick up the arse.

Kicking the chair away from the establishment is a short lived atavistic pleasure. A bit like pissing your pants, a brief warm feeling followed by discomfort and embarrassment.

Pretty much. Look at Trump for example.

tlg86

The_Apocalypse said:

Ishmael_Z said:

Casino_Royale said:

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

Can't stop laughing at the German federal election result.

Perhaps she'll deal with May now with a bit more humility.

I doubt it. If anything she will try and assert herself on the international stage instead of fixing her domestic problems. One imagines that the average AfD voter sympathises with or supports Brexit, but she probably doesn't want to see it.

Yes, the Twitterati view seems to be whatever the election result in Germany it's bad for Britain, and Brexit.

Latest view from pundits (all of whom detest the AfD, of course) is that she must act even tougher on Brexit to avoid encouraging them still further.

*facepalm*

I thought Macron's victory was meant to have drawn an ineradicable line under under Trumpy Brexity alt right naughtiness. This is not a happy result for the bien pensant.

It's not really a happy result for anyone who is against the far right.

Or the far left.

The_Apocalypse

tlg86 said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Ishmael_Z said:

Casino_Royale said:

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

Can't stop laughing at the German federal election result.

Perhaps she'll deal with May now with a bit more humility.

I doubt it. If anything she will try and assert herself on the international stage instead of fixing her domestic problems. One imagines that the average AfD voter sympathises with or supports Brexit, but she probably doesn't want to see it.

Yes, the Twitterati view seems to be whatever the election result in Germany it's bad for Britain, and Brexit.

Latest view from pundits (all of whom detest the AfD, of course) is that she must act even tougher on Brexit to avoid encouraging them still further.

*facepalm*

I thought Macron's victory was meant to have drawn an ineradicable line under under Trumpy Brexity alt right naughtiness. This is not a happy result for the bien pensant.

It's not really a happy result for anyone who is against the far right.

Or the far left.

Them too. Wonder how many seats they're projected to win?

Re glw's point: it reminds me of the Labour leadership election back in 2015. Too many of these centrists come across as empty vessels and can only talk in cliches and platitudes. I voted for Yvette, but mainly because she wasn't Corbyn.

Alanbrooke

the chart on the bottom of the link shows vote flows between elections

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/bundestagswahl/bundestagswahl-zahlen-umfragen-prognosen-fakten-15194715.html

tlg86

The_Apocalypse said:

tlg86 said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Ishmael_Z said:

Casino_Royale said:

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

Can't stop laughing at the German federal election result.

Perhaps she'll deal with May now with a bit more humility.

I doubt it. If anything she will try and assert herself on the international stage instead of fixing her domestic problems. One imagines that the average AfD voter sympathises with or supports Brexit, but she probably doesn't want to see it.

Yes, the Twitterati view seems to be whatever the election result in Germany it's bad for Britain, and Brexit.

Latest view from pundits (all of whom detest the AfD, of course) is that she must act even tougher on Brexit to avoid encouraging them still further.

*facepalm*

I thought Macron's victory was meant to have drawn an ineradicable line under under Trumpy Brexity alt right naughtiness. This is not a happy result for the bien pensant.

It's not really a happy result for anyone who is against the far right.

Or the far left.

Them too. Wonder how many seats they're projected to win?

65 apparently.

Alanbrooke

The_Apocalypse said:

tlg86 said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Ishmael_Z said:

Casino_Royale said:

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

Can't stop laughing at the German federal election result.

Perhaps she'll deal with May now with a bit more humility.

I doubt it. If anything she will try and assert herself on the international stage instead of fixing her domestic problems. One imagines that the average AfD voter sympathises with or supports Brexit, but she probably doesn't want to see it.

Yes, the Twitterati view seems to be whatever the election result in Germany it's bad for Britain, and Brexit.

Latest view from pundits (all of whom detest the AfD, of course) is that she must act even tougher on Brexit to avoid encouraging them still further.

*facepalm*

I thought Macron's victory was meant to have drawn an ineradicable line under under Trumpy Brexity alt right naughtiness. This is not a happy result for the bien pensant.

It's not really a happy result for anyone who is against the far right.

Or the far left.

Them too. Wonder how many seats they're projected to win?

currently 65 in the Bundestag

another_richard

Birra_Moretti said:

Casino_Royale said:

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

Can't stop laughing at the German federal election result.

Perhaps she'll deal with May now with a bit more humility.

I doubt it. If anything she will try and assert herself on the international stage instead of fixing her domestic problems. One imagines that the average AfD voter sympathises with or supports Brexit, but she probably doesn't want to see it.

Yes, the Twitterati view seems to be whatever the election result in Germany it's bad for Britain, and Brexit.

Latest view from pundits (all of whom detest the AfD, of course) is that she must act even tougher on Brexit to avoid encouraging them still further.

*facepalm*

Maybe Merkel will follow Aung San Sui Kyi into the fuddyduddies' doghouse with an outrage.

She was already there for some (and with good reason):

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/19/world-leading-eco-vandal-angela-merkel-german-environmental

foxinsoxuk

The_Apocalypse said:

foxinsoxuk said:

glw said:

Ishmael_Z said:

I thought Macron's victory was meant to have drawn an ineradicable line under under Trumpy Brexity alt right naughtiness. This is not a happy result for the bien pensant.

But even the Macron victory was a rejection of politics as usual. It's not so much a right versus left issue, as an established parties versus upstarts. If there is any overall lesson it's that across the world parties and people who "can't win" are doing better than expected. People are fed up with parties of all colours and willing to give alternatives a go, or at least give the incumbents a kick up the arse.

Kicking the chair away from the establishment is a short lived atavistic pleasure. A bit like pissing your pants, a brief warm feeling followed by discomfort and embarrassment.

Pretty much. Look at Trump for example.

Or Corbyn, Leftist populusm to teach a lesson to the right wing populists? I'm in

tlg86

Alanbrooke said:

the chart on the bottom of the link shows vote flows between elections

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/bundestagswahl/bundestagswahl-zahlen-umfragen-prognosen-fakten-15194715.html

That chart is called a Sankey diagram.

Sunil_Prasannan

viewcode said:

RobD said:

viewcode said:

I so hate to interrupt the merkelbashing, but the first series of "Star Trek: Discovery" is tonight, and the title sequence is online now (unless it's fake ). Have a butchers...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU

I still can't get over the fact that one of the cast members described herself as the first black lead in Star Trek, completely forgetting Avery Brooks as Sisko. Especially ironic given that star trek was supposed to be beyond all that stuff.

Tuvok, Uhura, Worf, LaForge... Millennials have no memory, bless 'em.

I think it's a ref to Sisko being the lead in DS9

viewcode

RobD said:

viewcode said:

RobD said:

viewcode said:

I so hate to interrupt the merkelbashing, but the first series of "Star Trek: Discovery" is tonight, and the title sequence is online now (unless it's fake ). Have a butchers...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU

I still can't get over the fact that one of the cast members described herself as the first black lead in Star Trek, completely forgetting Avery Brooks as Sisko. Especially ironic given that star trek was supposed to be beyond all that stuff.

Tuvok, Uhura, Worf, LaForge... Millennials have no memory, bless 'em.

And totally missing the point that race (or anything else) doesn't matter in the Trek universe.

indeed

HYUFD

stodge said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Yet another unpredictable result - they just go on and on but do show how far politicians have left behind millions of voters

Far from the politicians "leaving the voters behind", the desperate desire to please everyone and promise the sun, the moon and the stars has brought the voters to this point.

It's the desire to be popular whether it be Blair, Cameron, May or Merkel which has caused this. The desire to be all things to all people and create a broad but shallow constituency of support is an inherent part of democracy but works only if something can be delivered.

I would argue the failure of the prevailing economic culture and model in 2007-08 is resonating into the political culture across the western world. Still, many bang the drum for capitalism but I would argue that's not working well for many for various reasons.

Trump, AfD and Corbyn all latch on to that sense of failure and frustration but they have no answers either. We need to redefine our political and economic culture from the ground up and that means more thinking, less posturing and a willingness to challenge totems such as the desirability of tax cuts, the provision of welfare and indeed the role of work in general to name but three.

The rising voteshare for Trump, Sanders, the AfD, Die Linke, UKIP and Leave, Corbyn, Jacinda Ardern, Melenchon and Le Pen, Golden Dawn and Wilders, Syriza and Podemos, Beppe Grillo and NZ First and One Nation ie populists of left and right are factors of two causes.

On the populist right a largely anti immigration sentiment and on the populist left a largely anti austerity sentiment

However apart from Trump and Tsipras and Syriza none have actually yet won a general or presidential election (albeit Leave did win a referendum), so that suggests they are protest votes demanding adjustments from the main parties rather than desires to actually put populists in power

viewcode

Sunil_Prasannan said:

viewcode said:

RobD said:

viewcode said:

I so hate to interrupt the merkelbashing, but the first series of "Star Trek: Discovery" is tonight, and the title sequence is online now (unless it's fake ). Have a butchers...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU

I still can't get over the fact that one of the cast members described herself as the first black lead in Star Trek, completely forgetting Avery Brooks as Sisko. Especially ironic given that star trek was supposed to be beyond all that stuff.

Tuvok, Uhura, Worf, LaForge... Millennials have no memory, bless 'em.

I think it's a ref to Sisko being the lead in DS9

@RobD had already mentioned Sisko

another_richard

foxinsoxuk said:

The_Apocalypse said:

foxinsoxuk said:

glw said:

Ishmael_Z said:

I thought Macron's victory was meant to have drawn an ineradicable line under under Trumpy Brexity alt right naughtiness. This is not a happy result for the bien pensant.

But even the Macron victory was a rejection of politics as usual. It's not so much a right versus left issue, as an established parties versus upstarts. If there is any overall lesson it's that across the world parties and people who "can't win" are doing better than expected. People are fed up with parties of all colours and willing to give alternatives a go, or at least give the incumbents a kick up the arse.

Kicking the chair away from the establishment is a short lived atavistic pleasure. A bit like pissing your pants, a brief warm feeling followed by discomfort and embarrassment.

Pretty much. Look at Trump for example.

Or Corbyn, Leftist populusm to teach a lesson to the right wing populists? I'm in

I thought you were highly paid and rented out a property ? And an active Christian.

If so I'd be careful what you wish for

The_Apocalypse

foxinsoxuk said:

The_Apocalypse said:

foxinsoxuk said:

glw said:

Ishmael_Z said:

I thought Macron's victory was meant to have drawn an ineradicable line under under Trumpy Brexity alt right naughtiness. This is not a happy result for the bien pensant.

But even the Macron victory was a rejection of politics as usual. It's not so much a right versus left issue, as an established parties versus upstarts. If there is any overall lesson it's that across the world parties and people who "can't win" are doing better than expected. People are fed up with parties of all colours and willing to give alternatives a go, or at least give the incumbents a kick up the arse.

Kicking the chair away from the establishment is a short lived atavistic pleasure. A bit like pissing your pants, a brief warm feeling followed by discomfort and embarrassment.

Pretty much. Look at Trump for example.

Or Corbyn, Leftist populusm to teach a lesson to the right wing populists? I'm in

Yes, the populist left are alive and well. Labour moderates haven't a hope in hell of 'getting their party back'. And while I do sympathise with their plight to a degree, I also think they've brought a lot of it on themselves. Some of the people on the so-called right of Labour just have some unbelievable positions for people who call themselves left. I'm reminded of Oliver Kamm who supported the re-election of Bush in 2004. You don't have to be on the very left of the Labour Party to see the likes of him seeing themselves as 'left', or as 'Labour' as being ridiculous.

Sunil_Prasannan

viewcode said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

viewcode said:

RobD said:

viewcode said:

I so hate to interrupt the merkelbashing, but the first series of "Star Trek: Discovery" is tonight, and the title sequence is online now (unless it's fake ). Have a butchers...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU

I still can't get over the fact that one of the cast members described herself as the first black lead in Star Trek, completely forgetting Avery Brooks as Sisko. Especially ironic given that star trek was supposed to be beyond all that stuff.

Tuvok, Uhura, Worf, LaForge... Millennials have no memory, bless 'em.

I think it's a ref to Sisko being the lead in DS9

@RobD had already mentioned Sisko

He mentioned him because he was the lead character in DS9. Like Kirk was head honcho in TOS and Picard in TNG.

surbiton

another_richard said:

foxinsoxuk said:

The_Apocalypse said:

foxinsoxuk said:

glw said:

Ishmael_Z said:

I thought Macron's victory was meant to have drawn an ineradicable line under under Trumpy Brexity alt right naughtiness. This is not a happy result for the bien pensant.

But even the Macron victory was a rejection of politics as usual. It's not so much a right versus left issue, as an established parties versus upstarts. If there is any overall lesson it's that across the world parties and people who "can't win" are doing better than expected. People are fed up with parties of all colours and willing to give alternatives a go, or at least give the incumbents a kick up the arse.

Kicking the chair away from the establishment is a short lived atavistic pleasure. A bit like pissing your pants, a brief warm feeling followed by discomfort and embarrassment.

Pretty much. Look at Trump for example.

Or Corbyn, Leftist populusm to teach a lesson to the right wing populists? I'm in

I thought you were highly paid and rented out a property ? And an active Christian.

If so I'd be careful what you wish for

So, such a person cannot support the left ?

another_richard

Considering that this should be the optimum time in the economic cycle for Germany's establishment parties things could get even worse for them in four years time.

BigRich

Alanbrooke said:

the chart on the bottom of the link shows vote flows between elections

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/bundestagswahl/bundestagswahl-zahlen-umfragen-prognosen-fakten-15194715.html

Thanks for that Link, Its fascinating.

Among other things I note that of the 570,000 who voted Left party, 430,000 moved to. loosing 84% of there supporters from last time (made up for by switchers form the SPD)

The AdF and Left Party are at different ends of a linear political spectrum, they are 2 collectivist monstrositys, just with different insignia, they hate each other because they are fighting for the same voters

RobD

Sunil_Prasannan said:

viewcode said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

viewcode said:

RobD said:

viewcode said:

I so hate to interrupt the merkelbashing, but the first series of "Star Trek: Discovery" is tonight, and the title sequence is online now (unless it's fake ). Have a butchers...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU

I still can't get over the fact that one of the cast members described herself as the first black lead in Star Trek, completely forgetting Avery Brooks as Sisko. Especially ironic given that star trek was supposed to be beyond all that stuff.

Tuvok, Uhura, Worf, LaForge... Millennials have no memory, bless 'em.

I think it's a ref to Sisko being the lead in DS9

@RobD had already mentioned Sisko

He mentioned him because he was the lead character in DS9. Like Kirk was head honcho in TOS and Picard in TNG.

I think viewcode was mentioning other examples

BigRich

BigRich said:

Alanbrooke said:

the chart on the bottom of the link shows vote flows between elections

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/bundestagswahl/bundestagswahl-zahlen-umfragen-prognosen-fakten-15194715.html

Thanks for that Link, Its fascinating.

Among other things I note that of the 570,000 who voted Left party, 430,000 moved to. loosing 84% of there supporters from last time (made up for by switchers form the SPD)

The AdF and Left Party are at different ends of a linear political spectrum, they are 2 collectivist monstrositys, just with different insignia, they hate each other because they are fighting for the same voters

Just realsied I was reading the cart wrong, but I think my point still largely stands

another_richard

The_Apocalypse said:

foxinsoxuk said:

The_Apocalypse said:

foxinsoxuk said:

glw said:

Ishmael_Z said:

I thought Macron's victory was meant to have drawn an ineradicable line under under Trumpy Brexity alt right naughtiness. This is not a happy result for the bien pensant.

But even the Macron victory was a rejection of politics as usual. It's not so much a right versus left issue, as an established parties versus upstarts. If there is any overall lesson it's that across the world parties and people who "can't win" are doing better than expected. People are fed up with parties of all colours and willing to give alternatives a go, or at least give the incumbents a kick up the arse.

Kicking the chair away from the establishment is a short lived atavistic pleasure. A bit like pissing your pants, a brief warm feeling followed by discomfort and embarrassment.

Pretty much. Look at Trump for example.

Or Corbyn, Leftist populusm to teach a lesson to the right wing populists? I'm in

Yes, the populist left are alive and well. Labour moderates haven't a hope in hell of 'getting their party back'. And while I do sympathise with their plight to a degree, I also think they've brought a lot of it on themselves. Some of the people on the so-called right of Labour just have some unbelievable positions for people who call themselves left. I'm reminded of Oliver Kamm who supported the re-election of Bush in 2004. You don't have to be on the very left of the Labour Party to see the likes of him seeing themselves as 'left', or as 'Labour' as being ridiculous.

The Labour establishment forgot about fairness.
The Conservative establishment forgot about aspiration.

Alanbrooke

tweet

88 Sitze für AfD pronostiziert. Dieser Wahlabend hat Humor.

AfD on for 88 seats, this electionhas a sense of humour