The key point from today’s speech is that the PM is offering to keep membership payments for a couple of years to help their budget as we transition to a trade deal - no-one but Farage is thinking that’s a silly thing to do, the two year deadline was always going to be too tight to do the job properly.
And what do you think that trade deal will look like? The implication of her speech is that neither the Canada or Norway models will give us close enough access. She wants de facto membership without being members and that is impossible.
My reading of it was that she’s looking for somewhere between Canada and Norway, given that our regulations are already much more harmonised than was the case with Canada. We don’t want to go as far as Norway, who are basically in the EU but with no say in the regulations.
There is o settled view on what we want - that is a major problem. However, I suspect that may has now given the EU27 quite a lot of what they will want in terms of moving past phase one. Northern Ireland remains the sticking point. There just doesn't seem to be a workable solution to that which will work for both the RoI and the DUP.
"On the basis of what we have just heard, the softies have won some decisive victories over the transition period. But, in the long term, the hard mob have the upper hand. It will be a transit to a fairly hard Brexit."
That is a very fair snap judgement. Though I'm still bemused by this idea that Brextiteers didn't want a transition or didn't accept what it would involve. Do any Leavers on here not want a transition? It is just common sense surely?
Nigel doesn't want one. Why? Goodness only knows. He will have his Brexit for decades to come what's a year or two here or there?
I find it baffling. Just listened to him on the BBC.
Providing it is time limited and we've actually left the political apparatus, I have no problem with a transition. It could be 5 yeas if necessary, providing it is irrevocable.
If these questions are anything to go by May is in serious danger of losing the right wing press.
From WhatsApping my fellow Leavers, no-one feels betrayed about 2 years of effective non-voting membership.
The Cabinet is united. We are leaving. Alleluia!
Yes. I get that. However long it takes, whatever the ins and outs and negotiations all is good in Leaverstan.
Except. The general election. Lab will be aware that a commitment to do something anti-Leaver-ish (say EEA/EFTA/etc) might just get them back into power and then where's your leaving?
Depends if election is post 2021 to an extent.
Yes. It really comes down to whether the govt can actually negotiate everything they need to negotiate by March 2021. If so, then we will leave, if not, or they want another extension or..or...taking us into election year, then everything's in play.
Don't think it's politically possible for them to get to 2022 election without "leaving". That would therefore mean either we agree a framework beforehand so both sides are just talking 2019-21 about the "how" not the "where to", and or you actually prepare for WTO with customs officers etc to give the ultimate choice some teeth.
Unless the UK specifically applies for and gets the agreement of all 27 countries for a formal extension to the negotiations after 2019 then there will be no further discussion after that date. That is set in stone by Article 50. If the agreement is not signed off before March 2019 we fall out into WTO and the transition period doesn't happen.
Would she have announced it if she hadn't had a nod or a wink that all would be agreed?
She hasnt announced any ectension to negotiations has she? (I am working so relying on the comments here for what was in the speech).
A transition period is not an extension to negotiations. That would take a formal request and approval by all the other EU members individually
She says the UK and the EU have committed to protecting the Good Friday agreement and the common travel area. And they have said they will not allow physical border controls.
I thought this was a bit of a bold statement. Certainly neither side want physical border controls, but if the UK leaves the Customs Union it is hard to see how they are avoidable.
This is the sort of impossible to square contradiction that could see a finite implementation period indefinitely renewed, if you take the speech at face value.
Switzerland is neither in the single market, nor the customs union, and yet is in Schengen with no border controls.
As I wrote yesterday, the question wasn't what was going to be in the speech, which as expected is a rework of Lancaster House with a bit more on concessions on money, the ECJ and the transition. The question is what our EU friends are going to say. Are they going to pretend that 'progress has been made', or are they going to continue with their bonkers position that we can't discuss the core issues until we've settled things which can't be settled until we know what the final deal will look like?
Incidentally, wasn't Ireland the issue which didn't bark in the speech?
May's given the EU what they want on the money and probably on citizens' rights. Northern Ireland is a far tougher one, so she skirted it. That's not sustainable, of course.
What has she given on the money side ? We pay that now. She is not talking Barnier money for liabilities.
If these questions are anything to go by May is in serious danger of losing the right wing press.
From WhatsApping my fellow Leavers, no-one feels betrayed about 2 years of effective non-voting membership.
The Cabinet is united. We are leaving. Alleluia!
Yes. I get that. However long it takes, whatever the ins and outs and negotiations all is good in Leaverstan.
Except. The general election. Lab will be aware that a commitment to do something anti-Leaver-ish (say EEA/EFTA/etc) might just get them back into power and then where's your leaving?
Depends if election is post 2021 to an extent.
Yes. It really comes down to whether the govt can actually negotiate everything they need to negotiate by March 2021. If so, then we will leave, if not, or they want another extension or..or...taking us into election year, then everything's in play.
Don't think it's politically possible for them to get to 2022 election without "leaving". That would therefore mean either we agree a framework beforehand so both sides are just talking 2019-21 about the "how" not the "where to", and or you actually prepare for WTO with customs officers etc to give the ultimate choice some teeth.
Unless the UK specifically applies for and gets the agreement of all 27 countries for a formal extension to the negotiations after 2019 then there will be no further discussion after that date. That is set in stone by Article 50. If the agreement is not signed off before March 2019 we fall out into WTO and the transition period doesn't happen.
Would she have announced it if she hadn't had a nod or a wink that all would be agreed?
She hasnt announced any ectension to negotiations has she? (I am working so relying on the comments here for what was in the speech).
A transition period is not an extension to negotiations. That would take a formal request and approval by all the other EU members individually
Well we have a new beast = "implementation period".
That is a time during which everything will stay the same and will give us time to negotiate a bespoke (non-Norway, non-Canada) deal. Is what she said. And she said we will have left the EU at the beginning of it, in March 2019.
She says the UK and the EU have committed to protecting the Good Friday agreement and the common travel area. And they have said they will not allow physical border controls.
I thought this was a bit of a bold statement. Certainly neither side want physical border controls, but if the UK leaves the Customs Union it is hard to see how they are avoidable.
This is the sort of impossible to square contradiction that could see a finite implementation period indefinitely renewed, if you take the speech at face value.
Switzerland is neither in the single market, nor the customs union, and yet is in Schengen with no border controls.
If these questions are anything to go by May is in serious danger of losing the right wing press.
From WhatsApping my fellow Leavers, no-one feels betrayed about 2 years of effective non-voting membership.
The Cabinet is united. We are leaving. Alleluia!
Yes. I get that. However long it takes, whatever the ins and outs and negotiations all is good in Leaverstan.
Except. The general election. Lab will be aware that a commitment to do something anti-Leaver-ish (say EEA/EFTA/etc) might just get them back into power and then where's your leaving?
Depends if election is post 2021 to an extent.
Yes. It really comes down to whether the govt can actually negotiate everything they need to negotiate by March 2021. If so, then we will leave, if not, or they want another extension or..or...taking us into election year, then everything's in play.
Don't think it's politically possible for them to get to 2022 election without "leaving". That would therefore mean either we agree a framework beforehand so both sides are just talking 2019-21 about the "how" not the "where to", and or you actually prepare for WTO with customs officers etc to give the ultimate choice some teeth.
Unless the UK specifically applies for and gets the agreement of all 27 countries for a formal extension to the negotiations after 2019 then there will be no further discussion after that date. That is set in stone by Article 50. If the agreement is not signed off before March 2019 we fall out into WTO and the transition period doesn't happen.
Would she have announced it if she hadn't had a nod or a wink that all would be agreed?
She hasnt announced any ectension to negotiations has she? (I am working so relying on the comments here for what was in the speech).
A transition period is not an extension to negotiations. That would take a formal request and approval by all the other EU members individually
IIRC a transitional agreement requires unanimity amongst the 27, unlike a withdrawal agreement which only requires a qualified majority.
This is quite a big hurdle to surmount in 18 months.
In a wide-ranging speech, Mrs May also said: ◾A "period of implementation" - potentially of two years - should be agreed "as early as possible" ◾That the UK was prepared to "honour commitments we have made" - a reference to financial commitments ◾And that it would continue to make "an ongoing contribution" to projects it considers greatly to the EU and UK's advantage, such as science and security projects ◾She wanted a "bold new security relationship" with the EU which would be "unprecedented in its depth" ◾That the UK did not want to "stand in the way" of closer EU integration, as outlined by Jean-Claude Juncker.
-BBC
Is she accepting the EU bill ? Clearly the £20bn is different which is to remain in the single market.
She says the UK and the EU have committed to protecting the Good Friday agreement and the common travel area. And they have said they will not allow physical border controls.
I thought this was a bit of a bold statement. Certainly neither side want physical border controls, but if the UK leaves the Customs Union it is hard to see how they are avoidable.
This is the sort of impossible to square contradiction that could see a finite implementation period indefinitely renewed, if you take the speech at face value.
Switzerland is neither in the single market, nor the customs union, and yet is in Schengen with no border controls.
It does have FOM with the EEA by treaty though.
FOM != freedom to work or reside
It merely means you don't need to show your passport at the border.
If these questions are anything to go by May is in serious danger of losing the right wing press.
From WhatsApping my fellow Leavers, no-one feels betrayed about 2 years of effective non-voting membership.
The Cabinet is united. We are leaving. Alleluia!
Yes. I get that. However long it takes, whatever the ins and outs and negotiations all is good in Leaverstan.
Except. The general election. Lab will be aware that a commitment to do something anti-Leaver-ish (say EEA/EFTA/etc) might just get them back into power and then where's your leaving?
Depends if election is post 2021 to an extent.
Yes. It really comes down to whether the govt can actually negotiate everything they need to negotiate by March 2021. If so, then we will leave, if not, or they want another extension or..or...taking us into election year, then everything's in play.
Don't think it's politically possible for them to get to 2022 election without "leaving". That would therefore mean either we agree a framework beforehand so both sides are just talking 2019-21 about the "how" not the "where to", and or you actually prepare for WTO with customs officers etc to give the ultimate choice some teeth.
Unless the UK specifically applies for and gets the agreement of all 27 countries for a formal extension to the negotiations after 2019 then there will be no further discussion after that date. That is set in stone by Article 50. If the agreement is not signed off before March 2019 we fall out into WTO and the transition period doesn't happen.
Would she have announced it if she hadn't had a nod or a wink that all would be agreed?
She hasnt announced any ectension to negotiations has she? (I am working so relying on the comments here for what was in the speech).
A transition period is not an extension to negotiations. That would take a formal request and approval by all the other EU members individually
IIRC a transitional agreement requires unanimity amongst the 27, unlike a withdrawal agreement which only requires a qualified majority.
This is quite a big hurdle to surmount in 18 months.
Serious question for our Leavers. They'll now be 4 years 9 months between the Referendum result and the end of the transition. What happens if voters just genuinely change their minds ? What is the democratic " half life " on the referendum result ?
How will we know if voters change their minds given the polling lead `in` enjoyed throughout the referendum ?
We should have monthly referendum on EU membership.
In a wide-ranging speech, Mrs May also said: ◾A "period of implementation" - potentially of two years - should be agreed "as early as possible" ◾That the UK was prepared to "honour commitments we have made" - a reference to financial commitments ◾And that it would continue to make "an ongoing contribution" to projects it considers greatly to the EU and UK's advantage, such as science and security projects ◾She wanted a "bold new security relationship" with the EU which would be "unprecedented in its depth" ◾That the UK did not want to "stand in the way" of closer EU integration, as outlined by Jean-Claude Juncker.
-BBC
Is she accepting the EU bill ? Clearly the £20bn is different which is to remain in the single market.
Where does the £20bn come from? It's not mentioned in the speech...
She says the UK and the EU have committed to protecting the Good Friday agreement and the common travel area. And they have said they will not allow physical border controls.
I thought this was a bit of a bold statement. Certainly neither side want physical border controls, but if the UK leaves the Customs Union it is hard to see how they are avoidable.
This is the sort of impossible to square contradiction that could see a finite implementation period indefinitely renewed, if you take the speech at face value.
Switzerland is neither in the single market, nor the customs union, and yet is in Schengen with no border controls.
It does have FOM with the EEA by treaty though.
FOM != freedom to work or reside
It merely means you don't need to show your passport at the border.
I thought Switzerland was fully part of the EEA freedom to work and reside, hence the Swiss having to back off from their referendum-mandated cap on EU residents after the EU threatened to abrogate all the EEA-a-like treaties with Switzerland.
If these questions are anything to go by May is in serious danger of losing the right wing press.
From WhatsApping my fellow Leavers, no-one feels betrayed about 2 years of effective non-voting membership.
The Cabinet is united. We are leaving. Alleluia!
Yes. I get that. However long it takes, whatever the ins and outs and negotiations all is good in Leaverstan.
Except. The general election. Lab will be aware that a commitment to do something anti-Leaver-ish (say EEA/EFTA/etc) might just get them back into power and then where's your leaving?
Depends if election is post 2021 to an extent.
Yes. It really comes down to whether the govt can actually negotiate everything they need to negotiate by March 2021. If so, then we will leave, if not, or they want another extension or..or...taking us into election year, then everything's in play.
Don't think it's politically possible for them to get to 2022 election without "leaving". That would therefore mean either we agree a framework beforehand so both sides are just talking 2019-21 about the "how" not the "where to", and or you actually prepare for WTO with customs officers etc to give the ultimate choice some teeth.
Unless the UK specifically applies for and gets the agreement of all 27 countries for a formal extension to the negotiations after 2019 then there will be no further discussion after that date. That is set in stone by Article 50. If the agreement is not signed off before March 2019 we fall out into WTO and the transition period doesn't happen.
Would she have announced it if she hadn't had a nod or a wink that all would be agreed?
She hasnt announced any ectension to negotiations has she? (I am working so relying on the comments here for what was in the speech).
A transition period is not an extension to negotiations. That would take a formal request and approval by all the other EU members individually
IIRC a transitional agreement requires unanimity amongst the 27, unlike a withdrawal agreement which only requires a qualified majority.
This is quite a big hurdle to surmount in 18 months.
Yup. Bulgaria could ask what's in it for us ?
As both sides are now talking about one or more new Treaties it wouldn't surprise me if we end up with ratification referendum/s. It would be entertaining if there were No vote/s.
"On the basis of what we have just heard, the softies have won some decisive victories over the transition period. But, in the long term, the hard mob have the upper hand. It will be a transit to a fairly hard Brexit."
That is a very fair snap judgement. Though I'm still bemused by this idea that Brextiteers didn't want a transition or didn't accept what it would involve. Do any Leavers on here not want a transition? It is just common sense surely?
Nigel doesn't want one. Why? Goodness only knows. He will have his Brexit for decades to come what's a year or two here or there?
I find it baffling. Just listened to him on the BBC.
Providing it is time limited and we've actually left the political apparatus, I have no problem with a transition. It could be 5 yeas if necessary, providing it is irrevocable.
I've always felt a stepped approach would work best.
Day one, out the CAP and CFP, ECJ jurisdiction only over international trade and wrt EU bodies we are members of.
If it's the same process as for CETA then I believe about 35 different assemblies and parliaments had to approve - some countries require approval at regional level as well as national. And then there's the European Parliament, not to mention the HoC and HoL.
Does May really think all this lot are going to give her a bespoke deal without demur?
In a wide-ranging speech, Mrs May also said: ◾A "period of implementation" - potentially of two years - should be agreed "as early as possible" ◾That the UK was prepared to "honour commitments we have made" - a reference to financial commitments ◾And that it would continue to make "an ongoing contribution" to projects it considers greatly to the EU and UK's advantage, such as science and security projects ◾She wanted a "bold new security relationship" with the EU which would be "unprecedented in its depth" ◾That the UK did not want to "stand in the way" of closer EU integration, as outlined by Jean-Claude Juncker.
-BBC
Is she accepting the EU bill ? Clearly the £20bn is different which is to remain in the single market.
Where does the £20bn come from? It's not mentioned in the speech...
Er.......you are correct. So why should they let us be in the Single Market for two years after March 2019 ? This is like, cake, eating it and not washing the plate !
It merely means you don't need to show your passport at the border.
This highlights the inherent confusion about these issues. If you use that definition then we don't have FOM with the EU now (other than in Ireland) as EU citizens need to show their ID at the border.
It merely means you don't need to show your passport at the border.
This highlights the inherent confusion about these issues. If you use that definition then we don't have FOM with the EU now (other than in Ireland) as EU citizens need to show their ID at the border.
I need to show my passport at Dublin airport every time. OK, I am waved through. But still...
"On the basis of what we have just heard, the softies have won some decisive victories over the transition period. But, in the long term, the hard mob have the upper hand. It will be a transit to a fairly hard Brexit."
That is a very fair snap judgement. Though I'm still bemused by this idea that Brextiteers didn't want a transition or didn't accept what it would involve. Do any Leavers on here not want a transition? It is just common sense surely?
Nigel doesn't want one. Why? Goodness only knows. He will have his Brexit for decades to come what's a year or two here or there?
I find it baffling. Just listened to him on the BBC.
Providing it is time limited and we've actually left the political apparatus, I have no problem with a transition. It could be 5 yeas if necessary, providing it is irrevocable.
I've always felt a stepped approach would work best.
Day one, out the CAP and CFP, ECJ jurisdiction only over international trade and wrt EU bodies we are members of.
In a wide-ranging speech, Mrs May also said: ◾A "period of implementation" - potentially of two years - should be agreed "as early as possible" ◾That the UK was prepared to "honour commitments we have made" - a reference to financial commitments ◾And that it would continue to make "an ongoing contribution" to projects it considers greatly to the EU and UK's advantage, such as science and security projects ◾She wanted a "bold new security relationship" with the EU which would be "unprecedented in its depth" ◾That the UK did not want to "stand in the way" of closer EU integration, as outlined by Jean-Claude Juncker.
-BBC
Is she accepting the EU bill ? Clearly the £20bn is different which is to remain in the single market.
Where does the £20bn come from? It's not mentioned in the speech...
Er.......you are correct. So why should they let us be in the Single Market for two years after March 2019 ? This is like, cake, eating it and not washing the plate !
I took it that we'd continue to contribute during transition... not sure if that is part of, or additional to, honouring the "commitments we have made during the period of our membership."
In a wide-ranging speech, Mrs May also said: ◾A "period of implementation" - potentially of two years - should be agreed "as early as possible" ◾That the UK was prepared to "honour commitments we have made" - a reference to financial commitments ◾And that it would continue to make "an ongoing contribution" to projects it considers greatly to the EU and UK's advantage, such as science and security projects ◾She wanted a "bold new security relationship" with the EU which would be "unprecedented in its depth" ◾That the UK did not want to "stand in the way" of closer EU integration, as outlined by Jean-Claude Juncker.
-BBC
Is she accepting the EU bill ? Clearly the £20bn is different which is to remain in the single market.
Where does the £20bn come from? It's not mentioned in the speech...
Er.......you are correct. So why should they let us be in the Single Market for two years after March 2019 ? This is like, cake, eating it and not washing the plate !
I took it that we'd continue to contribute during transition... not sure if that is part of, or additional to, honouring the "commitments we have made during the period of our membership."
I got confused because so much was trailed about the £20 bn that I assumed it was there. So do we want to be in the Single Market after March 2019.... free ?
It merely means you don't need to show your passport at the border.
This highlights the inherent confusion about these issues. If you use that definition then we don't have FOM with the EU now (other than in Ireland) as EU citizens need to show their ID at the border.
I need to show my passport at Dublin airport every time. OK, I am waved through. But still...
Strictly speaking you just have to show the Garda evidence you're a British or Irish citizen born in Britain or Ireland. Not sure what other document would prove that though. British and Irish citizens not born in Britain or Ireland have to have a passport to travel between the UK and Ireland, Boris included.
In a wide-ranging speech, Mrs May also said: ◾A "period of implementation" - potentially of two years - should be agreed "as early as possible" ◾That the UK was prepared to "honour commitments we have made" - a reference to financial commitments ◾And that it would continue to make "an ongoing contribution" to projects it considers greatly to the EU and UK's advantage, such as science and security projects ◾She wanted a "bold new security relationship" with the EU which would be "unprecedented in its depth" ◾That the UK did not want to "stand in the way" of closer EU integration, as outlined by Jean-Claude Juncker.
-BBC
Is she accepting the EU bill ? Clearly the £20bn is different which is to remain in the single market.
Where does the £20bn come from? It's not mentioned in the speech...
Er.......you are correct. So why should they let us be in the Single Market for two years after March 2019 ? This is like, cake, eating it and not washing the plate !
I took it that we'd continue to contribute during transition... not sure if that is part of, or additional to, honouring the "commitments we have made during the period of our membership."
Assume that is the normal contribution we make now but importantly it brings the EU in line with their budget period
It's certainly an interesting reversal of the two campaigns. Now it's Leavers who'll have to argue abstractions " we've legally left " while populists crow FoM and the £350m pw to the EU continue unchanged.
I've never tried to beach an NDA before. Is that a California thing?
Ah, the dangers of commenting from my phone.
You guys are lucky that BA doesn't have wireless internet on planes yet. This means I'm going to be silent for the next eleven hours.
I'm amazed you are flying BA - I found them very mediocre indeed, on long haul.
Flew back from SFO with BA today in Biz. Not bad, not great. But a very good points and rewards programme.
We left late and got back early - hit the fade force of one of the hurricanes and enjoyed a bumpy ride with tail winds close to 100 MPH.
Virgin every time over BA when I can. There's no sense of occasion on BA and as for points I have 100s of thousands and can't find a way to use them.
I have never flown Virgin. BA have me. Last year I used points to fly the whole family to Canada and back Biz class for our summer holiday. There were five of us, so it would have been well over £10,000 otherwise. I can forgive a fair bit for that.
Farage moaning like a whore on Sky News about the speech.
Just as a matter of interest, how does a whore moan?
Refuse to pay her.
I thought payment in advance was standard terms, but bow to your greater knowledge.
Refusing to pay a prostitute is prima facie, a breach of S 11 of the Fraud Act 2006,
No your honour, she told me she was a condom seller and she was providing me with a free demonstration on how to use her product.
I think that would get the same reaction from your barrister that Courtney Walsh gave a Rastafarian client who tried to argue that a hand axe was a religious artefact, and not an offensive weapon.
"I'm not going to embarrass myself in Court by running that argument. You're pleading guilty."
"Labour wants a Jobs-First Brexit that uses powers returned from Brussels to invest and upgrade Britain's economy."
Does this actually mean anything?
The only sense I can make of it, is that he means no State Aid rules, so he can mess about with industry and commerce as he sees fit.
I cannot see how anyone takes Corbyn seriously. He has no position on Brexit other than that that maybe politically expedient for him. He is anti business and has no idea how he could manage a business friendly Brexit
So effectively we stay in the EU in all but name until 2021 then May likely hands over to Boris who can campaign for full Brexit and an end to free movement and any more payments to the EU in time for the 2022 general election
That clitter-clattering sound is a can being kicked down the road.
Yep - because the government still does not know what it wants the final Brexit deal to look like. An as we kick the can down the road, so we delay and then limit our ability to do the brilliant FTAs that we were promised.
She says the UK and the EU have committed to protecting the Good Friday agreement and the common travel area. And they have said they will not allow physical border controls.
I thought this was a bit of a bold statement. Certainly neither side want physical border controls, but if the UK leaves the Customs Union it is hard to see how they are avoidable.
This is the sort of impossible to square contradiction that could see a finite implementation period indefinitely renewed, if you take the speech at face value.
Switzerland is neither in the single market, nor the customs union, and yet is in Schengen with no border controls.
It does have FOM with the EEA by treaty though.
FOM != freedom to work or reside
It merely means you don't need to show your passport at the border.
I thought Switzerland was fully part of the EEA freedom to work and reside, hence the Swiss having to back off from their referendum-mandated cap on EU residents after the EU threatened to abrogate all the EEA-a-like treaties with Switzerland.
Though the Swiss do give preference to local workers first
Farage moaning like a whore on Sky News about the speech.
Just as a matter of interest, how does a whore moan?
Refuse to pay her.
I thought payment in advance was standard terms, but bow to your greater knowledge.
Refusing to pay a prostitute is prima facie, a breach of S 11 of the Fraud Act 2006,
No your honour, she told me she was a condom seller and she was providing me with a free demonstration on how to use her product.
I think that would get the same reaction from your barrister that Courtney Walsh gave a Rastafarian client who tried to argue that a hand axe was a religious artefact, and not an offensive weapon.
"I'm not going to embarrass myself in Court by running that argument. You're pleading guilty."
And he took over 500 Test Match wickets for the West Indies - a truly multi-talented individual.
So effectively we stay in the EU in all but name until 2021 then May likely hands over to Boris who can campaign for full Brexit and an end to free movement and any more payments to the EU in time for the 2022 general election
No - we are out on the 29th March 2019 and the two years is a transition period only
In a wide-ranging speech, Mrs May also said: ◾A "period of implementation" - potentially of two years - should be agreed "as early as possible" ◾That the UK was prepared to "honour commitments we have made" - a reference to financial commitments ◾And that it would continue to make "an ongoing contribution" to projects it considers greatly to the EU and UK's advantage, such as science and security projects ◾She wanted a "bold new security relationship" with the EU which would be "unprecedented in its depth" ◾That the UK did not want to "stand in the way" of closer EU integration, as outlined by Jean-Claude Juncker.
-BBC
Is she accepting the EU bill ? Clearly the £20bn is different which is to remain in the single market.
TM could have said "honour the present or future commitments we have made or agreed to as a member state of the EU" - her comment still leaves plenty of ground for disagreement, e.g. offering 60-70% of the one section of the bill we legally owe (UK preferred version) versus 20% of the 4 and a bit sections the EU believes we owe.
So effectively we stay in the EU in all but name until 2021 then May likely hands over to Boris who can campaign for full Brexit and an end to free movement and any more payments to the EU in time for the 2022 general election
Nah, Boris has now joined the long list of Conservative politicians, such as William Hague and David Cameron, who were regarded by the the nut-jobs as sound but are now regarded as traitors.
Farage moaning like a whore on Sky News about the speech.
Just as a matter of interest, how does a whore moan?
Refuse to pay her.
I thought payment in advance was standard terms, but bow to your greater knowledge.
Refusing to pay a prostitute is prima facie, a breach of S 11 of the Fraud Act 2006,
No your honour, she told me she was a condom seller and she was providing me with a free demonstration on how to use her product.
I think that would get the same reaction from your barrister that Courtney Walsh gave a Rastafarian client who tried to argue that a hand axe was a religious artefact, and not an offensive weapon.
"I'm not going to embarrass myself in Court by running that argument. You're pleading guilty."
And he took over 500 Test Match wickets for the West Indies - a truly multi-talented individual.
That clitter-clattering sound is a can being kicked down the road.
Yep - because the government still does not know what it wants the final Brexit deal to look like. An as we kick the can down the road, so we delay and then limit our ability to do the brilliant FTAs that we were promised.
Will Fox receive a salary for the next three and a half years ?
"Labour wants a Jobs-First Brexit that uses powers returned from Brussels to invest and upgrade Britain's economy."
Does this actually mean anything?
The only sense I can make of it, is that he means no State Aid rules, so he can mess about with industry and commerce as he sees fit.
I cannot see how anyone takes Corbyn seriously. He has no position on Brexit other than that that maybe politically expedient for him. He is anti business and has no idea how he could manage a business friendly Brexit
i think soft Brexit is less anti business than Tory Brexit.
Never been more businesses coming to LAB conferences than this week
Farage moaning like a whore on Sky News about the speech.
Just as a matter of interest, how does a whore moan?
Refuse to pay her.
I thought payment in advance was standard terms, but bow to your greater knowledge.
Refusing to pay a prostitute is prima facie, a breach of S 11 of the Fraud Act 2006,
No your honour, she told me she was a condom seller and she was providing me with a free demonstration on how to use her product.
I think that would get the same reaction from your barrister that Courtney Walsh gave a Rastafarian client who tried to argue that a hand axe was a religious artefact, and not an offensive weapon.
"I'm not going to embarrass myself in Court by running that argument. You're pleading guilty."
Nothing, and I mean nothing will ever top this defence.
A Zimbabwean man has told a court that he hired a prostitute who during the night transformed into a donkey...
...Moyo, 28, was arrested in the town of Zvishavane, about 185 miles south of the capital Harare on Sunday.
He said he had paid $25 for a prostitute, and was surprised Sunday morning when he heard people accusing him of having sex with a donkey.
I've never tried to beach an NDA before. Is that a California thing?
Ah, the dangers of commenting from my phone.
You guys are lucky that BA doesn't have wireless internet on planes yet. This means I'm going to be silent for the next eleven hours.
I'm amazed you are flying BA - I found them very mediocre indeed, on long haul.
Flew back from SFO with BA today in Biz. Not bad, not great. But a very good points and rewards programme.
We left late and got back early - hit the fade force of one of the hurricanes and enjoyed a bumpy ride with tail winds close to 100 MPH.
Virgin every time over BA when I can. There's no sense of occasion on BA and as for points I have 100s of thousands and can't find a way to use them.
I have never flown Virgin. BA have me. Last year I used points to fly the whole family to Canada and back Biz class for our summer holiday. There were five of us, so it would have been well over £10,000 otherwise. I can forgive a fair bit for that.
Only flown Virgin once, in the back. CC treated economy-class pax like we were something on the bottom of their shoes. I've never had that with BA.
So effectively we stay in the EU in all but name until 2021 then May likely hands over to Boris who can campaign for full Brexit and an end to free movement and any more payments to the EU in time for the 2022 general election
No - we are out on the 29th March 2019 and the two years is a transition period only
The genius of the Leave campaign was define our EU membership purely in terms of immigration and budget payments. Now both of those will continue unfettered until March 2021 - at least until then. So the table is turned. Government Brexiters now have to argue the legalities/abstractions " but we've left " Vs the actualities " but nothing as changed ".
PM climbs down on EU citizens, borders and law with €20bn bung for Brussels as she bids to kickstart Brexit talks - but is accused of betraying referendum by keeping Britain IN Europe until 2021
"Labour wants a Jobs-First Brexit that uses powers returned from Brussels to invest and upgrade Britain's economy."
Does this actually mean anything?
The only sense I can make of it, is that he means no State Aid rules, so he can mess about with industry and commerce as he sees fit.
I cannot see how anyone takes Corbyn seriously. He has no position on Brexit other than that that maybe politically expedient for him. He is anti business and has no idea how he could manage a business friendly Brexit
i think soft Brexit is less anti business than Tory Brexit.
Never been more businesses coming to LAB conferences than this week
But Corbyn does not want soft Brexit as he could not nationalize and as for business Corbyn will get no encouragement on his tax and intervention policies
If the transition period is going to look like being in the EU for an extra 2 years, why not just ask the EU to exfend the A50 deadline? Much less hassle for both sides.
That is not necessarily a rebuffal. May definitely addressed EU27 concerns in the speech and indicated some important concessions. Hopefully, Davis will follow these up with concrete proposals next week. It would be utterly bizarre for May to give that speech and for him not to do so.
That is not necessarily a rebuffal. May definitely addressed EU27 concerns in the speech and indicated some important concessions. Hopefully, Davis will follow these up with concrete proposals next week. It would be utterly bizarre for May to give that speech and for him not to do so.
It's very far from a rebuffal. The full statement he links to is positively friendly.
Note also that, as I pointed out earlier, the very fact that we're now about to start talking about transition is a useful step forward.
"Labour wants a Jobs-First Brexit that uses powers returned from Brussels to invest and upgrade Britain's economy."
Does this actually mean anything?
The only sense I can make of it, is that he means no State Aid rules, so he can mess about with industry and commerce as he sees fit.
I cannot see how anyone takes Corbyn seriously. He has no position on Brexit other than that that maybe politically expedient for him. He is anti business and has no idea how he could manage a business friendly Brexit
i think soft Brexit is less anti business than Tory Brexit.
Never been more businesses coming to LAB conferences than this week
This is the key. Superficially extended uncertainty should chill business confidence further. But my bet is business and the markets will enjoy the sound of the can being kicked down the road and will rally - subtly reinforcing the status quo. Put bluntly f we aren't going over a cliff edge now 2 years 9 months after the referendum why would we do it 4 years 9 months after it. The Referendum was a political event imbued with energy. Why do folk think the law of entropy doesn't apply to it.
Farage moaning like a whore on Sky News about the speech.
Just as a matter of interest, how does a whore moan?
Refuse to pay her.
I thought payment in advance was standard terms, but bow to your greater knowledge.
Refusing to pay a prostitute is prima facie, a breach of S 11 of the Fraud Act 2006,
No your honour, she told me she was a condom seller and she was providing me with a free demonstration on how to use her product.
I think that would get the same reaction from your barrister that Courtney Walsh gave a Rastafarian client who tried to argue that a hand axe was a religious artefact, and not an offensive weapon.
"I'm not going to embarrass myself in Court by running that argument. You're pleading guilty."
Nothing, and I mean nothing will ever top this defence.
A Zimbabwean man has told a court that he hired a prostitute who during the night transformed into a donkey...
...Moyo, 28, was arrested in the town of Zvishavane, about 185 miles south of the capital Harare on Sunday.
He said he had paid $25 for a prostitute, and was surprised Sunday morning when he heard people accusing him of having sex with a donkey.
Farage moaning like a whore on Sky News about the speech.
Just as a matter of interest, how does a whore moan?
Refuse to pay her.
I thought payment in advance was standard terms, but bow to your greater knowledge.
Refusing to pay a prostitute is prima facie, a breach of S 11 of the Fraud Act 2006,
No your honour, she told me she was a condom seller and she was providing me with a free demonstration on how to use her product.
I think that would get the same reaction from your barrister that Courtney Walsh gave a Rastafarian client who tried to argue that a hand axe was a religious artefact, and not an offensive weapon.
"I'm not going to embarrass myself in Court by running that argument. You're pleading guilty."
Nothing, and I mean nothing will ever top this defence.
A Zimbabwean man has told a court that he hired a prostitute who during the night transformed into a donkey...
...Moyo, 28, was arrested in the town of Zvishavane, about 185 miles south of the capital Harare on Sunday.
He said he had paid $25 for a prostitute, and was surprised Sunday morning when he heard people accusing him of having sex with a donkey.
I'm enjoying the trial of Mark Meechan of Coatbridge, who trained his girlfriend's pet pug to give a Nazi salute whenever he said "Heil Hitler" and "Gas the Jews" and uploaded the film to YouTube, getting 3m views.
Mr. Submarine, if you believe we will not end up departing, then the UKIP leadership contest becomes more significant than would otherwise by the case.
I've never tried to beach an NDA before. Is that a California thing?
Ah, the dangers of commenting from my phone.
You guys are lucky that BA doesn't have wireless internet on planes yet. This means I'm going to be silent for the next eleven hours.
I'm amazed you are flying BA - I found them very mediocre indeed, on long haul.
Flew back from SFO with BA today in Biz. Not bad, not great. But a very good points and rewards programme.
We left late and got back early - hit the fade force of one of the hurricanes and enjoyed a bumpy ride with tail winds close to 100 MPH.
Virgin every time over BA when I can. There's no sense of occasion on BA and as for points I have 100s of thousands and can't find a way to use them.
I have never flown Virgin. BA have me. Last year I used points to fly the whole family to Canada and back Biz class for our summer holiday. There were five of us, so it would have been well over £10,000 otherwise. I can forgive a fair bit for that.
Yes that is fair enough but do try Virgin (note I have over 100,000 miles, not 100s of thousands which is perhaps why I am betwixt and between).
I don't want to derail the thread - but has there been any discussion about TfL's decision to revoke Uber's license? Maybe not the biggest story of the day, but more surprising - and potentially disturbing - to me, than developments in Florence.
If the transition period is going to look like being in the EU for an extra 2 years, why not just ask the EU to exfend the A50 deadline? Much less hassle for both sides.
So we can say, perfectly accurately , that we've left.
I don't want to derail the thread - but has there been any discussion about TfL's decision to revoke Uber's license? Maybe not the biggest story of the day, but more surprising - and potentially disturbing - to me, than developments in Florence.
Comments
Florence was always going to be a good location for this speech and it is getting big coverage.
A transition period is not an extension to negotiations. That would take a formal request and approval by all the other EU members individually
Ominous.
That is a time during which everything will stay the same and will give us time to negotiate a bespoke (non-Norway, non-Canada) deal. Is what she said. And she said we will have left the EU at the beginning of it, in March 2019.
This is quite a big hurdle to surmount in 18 months.
She is not going anywhere in the next few years
Even Faisal Islam seems more complimentary
You guys are lucky that BA doesn't have wireless internet on planes yet. This means I'm going to be silent for the next eleven hours.
◾A "period of implementation" - potentially of two years - should be agreed "as early as possible"
◾That the UK was prepared to "honour commitments we have made" - a reference to financial commitments
◾And that it would continue to make "an ongoing contribution" to projects it considers greatly to the EU and UK's advantage, such as science and security projects
◾She wanted a "bold new security relationship" with the EU which would be "unprecedented in its depth"
◾That the UK did not want to "stand in the way" of closer EU integration, as outlined by Jean-Claude Juncker.
-BBC
Is she accepting the EU bill ? Clearly the £20bn is different which is to remain in the single market.
Arctic Ocean. Greenland Sea and Labrador Sea all look like good places for her to me, Borrrisss
Before you know it she’ll be saying it is too close to the 2022 general election to change leaders.
It merely means you don't need to show your passport at the border.
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pms-florence-speech-a-new-era-of-cooperation-and-partnership-between-the-uk-and-the-eu
We left late and got back early - hit the fade force of one of the hurricanes and enjoyed a bumpy ride with tail winds close to 100 MPH.
Day one, out the CAP and CFP, ECJ jurisdiction only over international trade and wrt EU bodies we are members of.
Day 366, out the customs union
Day 800 (or whatever) out the single market.
Does May really think all this lot are going to give her a bespoke deal without demur?
*That’s an awesome pun
But this was the cheapest business class return to LA.
"Labour wants a Jobs-First Brexit that uses powers returned from Brussels to invest and upgrade Britain's economy."
Does this actually mean anything?
The only sense I can make of it, is that he means no State Aid rules, so he can mess about with industry and commerce as he sees fit.
"I'm not going to embarrass myself in Court by running that argument. You're pleading guilty."
How sad
Never been more businesses coming to LAB conferences than this week
A Zimbabwean man has told a court that he hired a prostitute who during the night transformed into a donkey...
...Moyo, 28, was arrested in the town of Zvishavane, about 185 miles south of the capital Harare on Sunday.
He said he had paid $25 for a prostitute, and was surprised Sunday morning when he heard people accusing him of having sex with a donkey.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/8850298/Zimbabwean-man-claims-prostitute-turned-to-donkey.html
https://twitter.com/michelbarnier/status/911253421235335168
PM climbs down on EU citizens, borders and law with €20bn bung for Brussels as she bids to kickstart Brexit talks - but is accused of betraying referendum by keeping Britain IN Europe until 2021
You'd have to have a heart of stone etc etc
https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/911254376169263104
Note also that, as I pointed out earlier, the very fact that we're now about to start talking about transition is a useful step forward.