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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The consequences of Amber Rudd’s decision to ignore the courts

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  • Mr. Flashman (deceased), the ballot was always 'unofficial', wasn't it?

    I'm not too fussed given my stakes, but it'd need something more (cancellation or confiscation of ballot boxes) to legitimise voiding the market.
  • Breaking News - Verhotstadt says a solution to Ireland will be found and Donald Tusk flying to London to meet Theresa May in Downing Street next Tuesday

    Early signs of common sense
  • TGOHF said:

    Spanish constitution is pretty clear - has to be a nationwide referendum.

    However Spanish gov have played this crudely - should have just told voters to ignore ballot then every non voter could be counted as a remainer.

    Won't impact support for a split.

    Would be funny to see it happen and then Barca get punted out of La Ligua .

    They have told voters to ignore the ballot. None of the anti-independent parties recognise it and none are campaigning.
    You missed a key word. They should have just told voters to ignore the ballot.

    They haven't, they've arrested those involved, sent armed Police to raid newspapers etc, etc, etc

    That's changed things. Now non-voters could be intimidated by the central government rather than conscientious abstainers.

    Totally agree. The PP government in Madrid is a gift to the Catalan separatists.

  • RoyalBlue said:

    TGOHF said:

    Spanish constitution is pretty clear - has to be a nationwide referendum.

    However Spanish gov have played this crudely - should have just told voters to ignore ballot then every non voter could be counted as a remainer.

    Won't impact support for a split.

    Would be funny to see it happen and then Barca get punted out of La Ligua .

    The constitution bears the mark of the old regime:

    La Constitución se fundamenta en la indisoluble unidad de la Nación española, patria común e indivisible de todos los españoles, y reconoce y garantiza el derecho a la autonomía de las nacionalidades y regiones que la integran y la solidaridad entre todas ellas.

    Indissoluble unity and AND indivisible in a single sentence. ¡Una, grande y libre!

    It was written post-Franco and approved in a Spain-wide referendum in 1978. It got over 90% of votes in Catalonia.

  • Mr. Glenn, Parliament's backed Article 50. If we assume, for the sake of argument, that that can be revoked unilaterally *and* the Commons does so, it would have interesting implications for politics.
  • Breaking News - Verhotstadt says a solution to Ireland will be found and Donald Tusk flying to London to meet Theresa May in Downing Street next Tuesday

    Verhofstadt is pushing for special status for Northern Ireland.

    https://twitter.com/SiobhanFenton/status/910465416333492224
  • On Catalan, got on at 1.42. Not sure the vote will happen, though.

    There'll be some kind of vote, but it will be chaotic. The independence side will win by a landslide.

  • Breaking News - Verhotstadt says a solution to Ireland will be found and Donald Tusk flying to London to meet Theresa May in Downing Street next Tuesday

    Verhofstadt is pushing for special status for Northern Ireland.

    https://twitter.com/SiobhanFenton/status/910465416333492224
    And Donald Tusk coming here. Thought we had to go to Brussels all the time
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited September 2017

    Blair aide predicts Brexit won't happen:

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/tony-blair/news/89127/excl-former-key-adviser-tony-blair-says

    Asked whether the Government will manage to agree a deal with the EU before 30 March 2019, Mr Murphy said: "I don't think Brexit will happen. I don't think the Government has the votes."

    Bit late, isn't he? The government has already held the vote, which passed by 494 to 122.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Breaking News - Verhotstadt says a solution to Ireland will be found and Donald Tusk flying to London to meet Theresa May in Downing Street next Tuesday

    Verhofstadt is pushing for special status for Northern Ireland.

    https://twitter.com/SiobhanFenton/status/910465416333492224
    It sounds a good solution, after all NI did vote to Remain.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,344
    edited September 2017

    Mr. Glenn, Parliament's backed Article 50. If we assume, for the sake of argument, that that can be revoked unilaterally *and* the Commons does so, it would have interesting implications for politics.

    It'd be no different to suspending 1940 general election for five years.

    Democracy can be suspended as the politicians sort the mess out.

    There is precedent.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,140

    Breaking News - Verhotstadt says a solution to Ireland will be found and Donald Tusk flying to London to meet Theresa May in Downing Street next Tuesday

    Verhofstadt is pushing for special status for Northern Ireland.

    twitter.com/SiobhanFenton/status/910465416333492224
    It sounds a good solution, after all NI did vote to Remain.
    That's not how a national referendum works.
  • RobD said:

    Breaking News - Verhotstadt says a solution to Ireland will be found and Donald Tusk flying to London to meet Theresa May in Downing Street next Tuesday

    Verhofstadt is pushing for special status for Northern Ireland.

    twitter.com/SiobhanFenton/status/910465416333492224
    It sounds a good solution, after all NI did vote to Remain.
    That's not how a national referendum works.
    The government dismissed amendments that would have made the referendum conditional on a super majority on the grounds that it was only advisory. They would be well advised to take greater account of the differential result.
  • Mr. Eagles, not sure anyone mentioned suspending the normal course of elections, just a controversial potential decision by the Commons.
  • Mr. Eagles, not sure anyone mentioned suspending the normal course of elections, just a controversial potential decision by the Commons.

    The guilty men in The Commons got the country into a right mess, rather than face the electorate over their reverse ferret, they postponed democracy.
  • RobD said:

    Breaking News - Verhotstadt says a solution to Ireland will be found and Donald Tusk flying to London to meet Theresa May in Downing Street next Tuesday

    Verhofstadt is pushing for special status for Northern Ireland.

    twitter.com/SiobhanFenton/status/910465416333492224
    It sounds a good solution, after all NI did vote to Remain.
    That's not how a national referendum works.
    The government dismissed amendments that would have made the referendum conditional on a super majority on the grounds that it was only advisory. They would be well advised to take greater account of the differential result.
    Its over William - the referendum is history
  • RobD said:

    Breaking News - Verhotstadt says a solution to Ireland will be found and Donald Tusk flying to London to meet Theresa May in Downing Street next Tuesday

    Verhofstadt is pushing for special status for Northern Ireland.

    twitter.com/SiobhanFenton/status/910465416333492224
    It sounds a good solution, after all NI did vote to Remain.
    That's not how a national referendum works.
    The government dismissed amendments that would have made the referendum conditional on a super majority on the grounds that it was only advisory. They would be well advised to take greater account of the differential result.
    Dave should have followed the Scottish Referendum precedent (1979 version)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,140

    RobD said:

    Breaking News - Verhotstadt says a solution to Ireland will be found and Donald Tusk flying to London to meet Theresa May in Downing Street next Tuesday

    Verhofstadt is pushing for special status for Northern Ireland.

    twitter.com/SiobhanFenton/status/910465416333492224
    It sounds a good solution, after all NI did vote to Remain.
    That's not how a national referendum works.
    The government dismissed amendments that would have made the referendum conditional on a super majority on the grounds that it was only advisory. They would be well advised to take greater account of the differential result.
    If anything, the fact that clause wasn't in the bill means they don't have to take the differential result into account at all.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,140

    RobD said:

    Breaking News - Verhotstadt says a solution to Ireland will be found and Donald Tusk flying to London to meet Theresa May in Downing Street next Tuesday

    Verhofstadt is pushing for special status for Northern Ireland.

    twitter.com/SiobhanFenton/status/910465416333492224
    It sounds a good solution, after all NI did vote to Remain.
    That's not how a national referendum works.
    The government dismissed amendments that would have made the referendum conditional on a super majority on the grounds that it was only advisory. They would be well advised to take greater account of the differential result.
    Dave should have followed the Scottish Referendum precedent (1979 version)
    Wasn't that proposed in the Lords, or was the amendment not given any time?
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Breaking News - Verhotstadt says a solution to Ireland will be found and Donald Tusk flying to London to meet Theresa May in Downing Street next Tuesday

    Verhofstadt is pushing for special status for Northern Ireland.

    twitter.com/SiobhanFenton/status/910465416333492224
    It sounds a good solution, after all NI did vote to Remain.
    That's not how a national referendum works.
    The government dismissed amendments that would have made the referendum conditional on a super majority on the grounds that it was only advisory. They would be well advised to take greater account of the differential result.
    Dave should have followed the Scottish Referendum precedent (1979 version)
    Wasn't that proposed in the Lords, or was the amendment not given any time?
    I think it was proposed but never tabled.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    edited September 2017

    RoyalBlue said:

    TGOHF said:

    Spanish constitution is pretty clear - has to be a nationwide referendum.

    However Spanish gov have played this crudely - should have just told voters to ignore ballot then every non voter could be counted as a remainer.

    Won't impact support for a split.

    Would be funny to see it happen and then Barca get punted out of La Ligua .

    The constitution bears the mark of the old regime:

    La Constitución se fundamenta en la indisoluble unidad de la Nación española, patria común e indivisible de todos los españoles, y reconoce y garantiza el derecho a la autonomía de las nacionalidades y regiones que la integran y la solidaridad entre todas ellas.

    Indissoluble unity and AND indivisible in a single sentence. ¡Una, grande y libre!

    It was written post-Franco and approved in a Spain-wide referendum in 1978. It got over 90% of votes in Catalonia.

    All the officials from Franco's time, including the army, were still there in 1978. That would have been in the minds of those drafting the document. Tejero's attempted coup in 1981 shows that a sizeable proportion of the old establishment (who were never cleared out) were still not comfortable with the new path the country took.

    Catalan national feeling has definitely grown since the reestablishment of the Generalidad (regional parliament) and the suppression of Spanish in local education, even for children whose parents are from other parts of Spain. At one point the Generalidad would buy the first 300 copies of almost any book written in Catalan, as the economic incentives to publish in that language were pretty weak compared with the c. 500 million Spanish speakers globally.
  • RoyalBlue said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    TGOHF said:

    Spanish constitution is pretty clear - has to be a nationwide referendum.

    However Spanish gov have played this crudely - should have just told voters to ignore ballot then every non voter could be counted as a remainer.

    Won't impact support for a split.

    Would be funny to see it happen and then Barca get punted out of La Ligua .

    The constitution bears the mark of the old regime:

    La Constitución se fundamenta en la indisoluble unidad de la Nación española, patria común e indivisible de todos los españoles, y reconoce y garantiza el derecho a la autonomía de las nacionalidades y regiones que la integran y la solidaridad entre todas ellas.

    Indissoluble unity and AND indivisible in a single sentence. ¡Una, grande y libre!

    It was written post-Franco and approved in a Spain-wide referendum in 1978. It got over 90% of votes in Catalonia.

    All the officials from Franco's time, including the army, were still there in 1978. That would have been in the minds of those drafting the document. Tejero's attempted coup in 1981 shows that a sizeable proportion of the old establishment (who were never cleared out) were still not comfortable with the new path the country took.

    Catalan national feeling has definitely grown since the reestablishment of the Generalidad (regional parliament) and the suppression of Spanish in local education, even for children whose parents are from other parts of Spain. At one point the Generalidad would buy the first 300 copies of almost any book written in Catalan, as the economic incentives to publish in that language were pretty weak compared with the c. 500 million Spanish speakers globally.

    Yep - the Generalitat has always spent a lot of money promoting use of Catalan. Spanish is still widely spoken in Barcelona and in tourist towns on the coast, but elsewhere Catalan is the lingua franca. If you want a government job of any kind you have to be fluent in Catalan.

  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    Blair aide predicts Brexit won't happen:

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/tony-blair/news/89127/excl-former-key-adviser-tony-blair-says

    Asked whether the Government will manage to agree a deal with the EU before 30 March 2019, Mr Murphy said: "I don't think Brexit will happen. I don't think the Government has the votes."

    Whoever this man is, what he says is utter nonsense. He's yet another fool who thinks that everything important happens in the Westminster bubble.

    We are leaving the EU. Whether MPs like it or not doesn't change that. They might as well repeal the Indian Independence Act 1947.
  • Storm in a teacup.

    Next.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,140
    Usually put in that situation by the proceeding government, or would you have had them cut spending by £100bn in 2010?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849
    edited September 2017
    No mistake but give it 5 mins and someone will be on here blaiming Labour :lol:

    EDIT: I see it only took 3 mins!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,140

    No mistake but give it 5 mins and someone will be on here blaiming Labour :lol:
    Too late. :)
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    RoyalBlue said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    TGOHF said:

    Spanish constitution is pretty clear - has to be a nationwide referendum.

    However Spanish gov have played this crudely - should have just told voters to ignore ballot then every non voter could be counted as a remainer.

    Won't impact support for a split.

    Would be funny to see it happen and then Barca get punted out of La Ligua .

    The constitution bears the mark of the old regime

    Snip

    Indissoluble unity and AND indivisible in a single sentence. ¡Una, grande y libre!

    It was written post-Franco and approved in a Spain-wide referendum in 1978. It got over 90% of votes in Catalonia.

    All the officials from Franco's time, including the army, were still there in 1978. That would have been in the minds of those drafting the document. Tejero's attempted coup in 1981 shows that a sizeable proportion of the old establishment (who were never cleared out) were still not comfortable with the new path the country took.

    Catalan national feeling has definitely grown since the reestablishment of the Generalidad (regional parliament) and the suppression of Spanish in local education, even for children whose parents are from other parts of Spain. At one point the Generalidad would buy the first 300 copies of almost any book written in Catalan, as the economic incentives to publish in that language were pretty weak compared with the c. 500 million Spanish speakers globally.

    Yep - the Generalitat has always spent a lot of money promoting use of Catalan. Spanish is still widely spoken in Barcelona and in tourist towns on the coast, but elsewhere Catalan is the lingua franca. If you want a government job of any kind you have to be fluent in Catalan.

    It doesn't just promote Catalan; it is actively hostile to the language of the nation as a whole. Its policy is equivalent to the Welsh government forcing almost all children in Wales to attend Welsh-medium schools, even if their parents don't speak a word of the language.

    Your second sentence is highly misleading; there are no Catalans who don't speak, write and understand Spanish fluently, whereas nearly 50% of the population in Catalonia doesn't use Catalan at all. They only get away with this chauvinism because they make a net contribution to the Spanish exchequer.

    It's fascinating that the region in Spain with the highest use of a regional language (Galicia) has by far the weakest separatist tradition. Franco called it home, and it usually votes for the PP.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849
    edited September 2017
    RobD said:

    Usually put in that situation by the proceeding government, or would you have had them cut spending by £100bn in 2010?
    The could have raised taxes on those of us who have seen our incomes grow significantly over the past 7 years... Or maybe not given so much away in corporation tax cuts.

    PT nailed it in yesterday's Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/19/tories-chaos-labour-must-stand-ready-jeremy-corbyn

    "Look how the Cameron and May administrations have diminished the basic decencies of civilised government. Their perverse response to the great squeeze has been an £18bn cut in income tax, mainly for the better off, and a £9bn cut in corporation tax."
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,761
    RobD said:

    Usually put in that situation by the proceeding government, or would you have had them cut spending by £100bn in 2010?
    Nice try but even in years prior to Global Financial Crisis same applies
  • The maddest poll you'll see all year:
    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/909880923579019264
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    I'm surprised it's as high as 22%. Spain still hasn't given Olivença back.
  • RoyalBlue said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    TGOHF said:

    Spanish constitution is pretty clear - has to be a nationwide referendum.

    However Spanish gov have played this crudely - should have just told voters to ignore ballot then every non voter could be counted as a remainer.

    Won't impact support for a split.

    Would be funny to see it happen and then Barca get punted out of La Ligua .

    The constitution bears the mark of the old regime

    Snip

    Indissoluble unity and AND indivisible in a single sentence. ¡Una, grande y libre!

    It was written post-Franco and approved in a Spain-wide referendum in 1978. It got over 90% of votes in Catalonia.

    All the officials from Franco's time, including the army, were still there in 1978. That would have been in the minds of those drafting the document. Tejero's attempted coup in 1981 shows that a sizeable proportion of the old establishment (who were never cleared out) were still not comfortable with the new path the country took.

    Catalan nationalalidad would buy the first 300 copies of almost any book written in Catalan, as the economic incentives to publish in that language were pretty weak compared with the c. 500 million Spanish speakers globally.

    Yep - the Generalitat has always spent a lot of money promoting use of Catalan. Spanish is still widely spoken in Barcelona and in tourist towns on the coast, but elsewhere Catalan is the lingua franca. If you want a government job of any kind you have to be fluent in Catalan.

    It doesn't just promote Catalan; it is actively hostile to the language of the nation as a whole. Its policy is equivalent to the Welsh government forcing almost all children in Wales to attend Welsh-medium schools, even if their parents don't speak a word of the language.

    Your second sentence is highly misleading; there are no Catalans who don't speak, write and understand Spanish fluently, whereas nearly 50% of the population in Catalonia doesn't use Catalan at all. They only get away with this chauvinism because they make a net contribution to the Spanish exchequer.

    It's fascinating that the region in Spain with the highest use of a regional language (Galicia) has by far the weakest separatist tradition. Franco called it home, and it usually votes for the PP.

    They get away with it because Spanish speakers are far less politically active than Catalan speakers in Catalonia. Fluency in Catalan is pretty universal in younger age groups. I agree the Generalitat is actively hostile to Spanish. It's a real shame. Nationalism does that, though.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849

    Storm in a teacup.

    Next.

    I happen to agree with you on that one, nothing to see here.

    At the risk of appearing insensitive to those suffering terribly in the Caribbean, it feels like we are in the lull before storm of news & speculation that will rage over the next two weeks with the party conferences and the Florence speech.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,140

    RobD said:

    Usually put in that situation by the proceeding government, or would you have had them cut spending by £100bn in 2010?
    The could have raised taxes on those of us who have seen our incomes grow significantly over the past 7 years... Or maybe not given so much away in corporation tax cuts.

    PT nailed it in yesterday's Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/19/tories-chaos-labour-must-stand-ready-jeremy-corbyn

    "Look how the Cameron and May administrations have diminished the basic decencies of civilised government. Their perverse response to the great squeeze has been an £18bn cut in income tax, mainly for the better off, and a £9bn cut in corporation tax."
    Yet receipts from the two taxes are up.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Leaving Spain for a moment, this is disturbing:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41271028

    I suppose it makes sense. Britain will never vote for Brexit, so why plan for it?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Nothing to see here, plenty of Home Secretaries have been found in contempt of court. Or rather two have, both Tories. One of them was Kenneth Baker. The other wasn't...
  • Compare the Goldilocks economy the Tories left Labour in 1997 with the unholy shitstorm Labour left them in 2010. Now imagine the atomic wasteland Corbyn will leave in his wake if we're ever stupid enough to elect him...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Usually put in that situation by the proceeding government, or would you have had them cut spending by £100bn in 2010?
    The could have raised taxes on those of us who have seen our incomes grow significantly over the past 7 years... Or maybe not given so much away in corporation tax cuts.

    PT nailed it in yesterday's Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/19/tories-chaos-labour-must-stand-ready-jeremy-corbyn

    "Look how the Cameron and May administrations have diminished the basic decencies of civilised government. Their perverse response to the great squeeze has been an £18bn cut in income tax, mainly for the better off, and a £9bn cut in corporation tax."
    Yet receipts from the two taxes are up.
    Oh God, we've been through all this before... Both Income Tax and CT are down as a proportion of GDP which is the only true measure. You will then argue that GDP growth (such as it was) would have been lower had taxes not been cut... which nobody can prove one way or another. (But we have had the slowest post-recession recovery ever.

    Anyway it's history but live in hope that one day the myth that the Tories run the economy better than Labour will be widely undestood to be just that - a myth!
  • RoyalBlue said:

    Leaving Spain for a moment, this is disturbing:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41271028

    I suppose it makes sense. Britain will never vote for Brexit, so why plan for it?

    With reference to your earlier comment, it's this, rather than votes in parliament that means the chance that when it comes down to it Brexit will be abandoned is still non-zero.
  • Storm in a teacup.

    Next.

    I happen to agree with you on that one, nothing to see here.

    At the risk of appearing insensitive to those suffering terribly in the Caribbean, it feels like we are in the lull before storm of news & speculation that will rage over the next two weeks with the party conferences and the Florence speech.
    When is Vince's big speech - will he wear his hat!!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849
    blueblue said:

    Compare the Goldilocks economy the Tories left Labour in 1997 with the unholy shitstorm Labour left them in 2010. Now imagine the atomic wasteland Corbyn will leave in his wake if we're ever stupid enough to elect him...
    Hand on heart, if the Tories had won in 2005, do you think the 2008 global crash would have somehow avoided the UK?
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    RoyalBlue said:

    Blair aide predicts Brexit won't happen:

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/tony-blair/news/89127/excl-former-key-adviser-tony-blair-says

    Asked whether the Government will manage to agree a deal with the EU before 30 March 2019, Mr Murphy said: "I don't think Brexit will happen. I don't think the Government has the votes."

    Whoever this man is, what he says is utter nonsense. He's yet another fool who thinks that everything important happens in the Westminster bubble.

    We are leaving the EU. Whether MPs like it or not doesn't change that. They might as well repeal the Indian Independence Act 1947.
    It's not like Indian Independence. We can and will rejoin if we do leave.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    blueblue said:

    Compare the Goldilocks economy the Tories left Labour in 1997 with the unholy shitstorm Labour left them in 2010. Now imagine the atomic wasteland Corbyn will leave in his wake if we're ever stupid enough to elect him...
    So why did the Tories lose - and lose so badly - in 1997 if they left behind such a fabulous economy ? The 1997 defeat was one of the biggest in history.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849
    RoyalBlue said:

    Leaving Spain for a moment, this is disturbing:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41271028

    I suppose it makes sense. Britain will never vote for Brexit, so why plan for it?

    Interesting article. Maybe the thought outlined in the last two senstences isn't too bad an outcome....

    "Unless the government starts allocating resources to prepare for the parts of a clean exit in 2019 that it can control, no-one will seriously believe they're considering it. It makes a transition of some kind - on whatever terms it is offered - much more likely."
  • RoyalBlue said:

    Blair aide predicts Brexit won't happen:

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/tony-blair/news/89127/excl-former-key-adviser-tony-blair-says

    Asked whether the Government will manage to agree a deal with the EU before 30 March 2019, Mr Murphy said: "I don't think Brexit will happen. I don't think the Government has the votes."

    Whoever this man is, what he says is utter nonsense. He's yet another fool who thinks that everything important happens in the Westminster bubble.

    We are leaving the EU. Whether MPs like it or not doesn't change that. They might as well repeal the Indian Independence Act 1947.
    It's not like Indian Independence. We can and will rejoin if we do leave.
    True. Unlike the British Empire, the EU isn't going anywhere, and will continue to be the prime mover in European politics.
  • RoyalBlue said:

    Blair aide predicts Brexit won't happen:

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/tony-blair/news/89127/excl-former-key-adviser-tony-blair-says

    Asked whether the Government will manage to agree a deal with the EU before 30 March 2019, Mr Murphy said: "I don't think Brexit will happen. I don't think the Government has the votes."

    Whoever this man is, what he says is utter nonsense. He's yet another fool who thinks that everything important happens in the Westminster bubble.

    We are leaving the EU. Whether MPs like it or not doesn't change that. They might as well repeal the Indian Independence Act 1947.
    It's not like Indian Independence. We can and will rejoin if we do leave.
    Glad you are so certain. After all that is going on it is more than likely we will remain an Independent Country trading with the EU and the rest of the World for a very long time
  • RoyalBlue said:

    Blair aide predicts Brexit won't happen:

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/tony-blair/news/89127/excl-former-key-adviser-tony-blair-says

    Asked whether the Government will manage to agree a deal with the EU before 30 March 2019, Mr Murphy said: "I don't think Brexit will happen. I don't think the Government has the votes."

    Whoever this man is, what he says is utter nonsense. He's yet another fool who thinks that everything important happens in the Westminster bubble.

    We are leaving the EU. Whether MPs like it or not doesn't change that. They might as well repeal the Indian Independence Act 1947.
    It's not like Indian Independence. We can and will rejoin if we do leave.
    True. Unlike the British Empire, the EU isn't going anywhere, and will continue to be the prime mover in European politics.
    God help Europe
  • Birra_MorettiBirra_Moretti Posts: 53
    edited September 2017
    An Iberian Union makes far more sense than your crazy EU contraption.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    RoyalBlue said:

    Leaving Spain for a moment, this is disturbing:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41271028

    I suppose it makes sense. Britain will never vote for Brexit, so why plan for it?

    With reference to your earlier comment, it's this, rather than votes in parliament that means the chance that when it comes down to it Brexit will be abandoned is still non-zero.
    Because it will create immense practical difficulties the EU will allow us to revoke Article 50 unilaterally and go back to the good old days? No.

    For a Euroenthusiast, that's a remarkably Anglocentric view!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849

    RoyalBlue said:

    Blair aide predicts Brexit won't happen:

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/tony-blair/news/89127/excl-former-key-adviser-tony-blair-says

    Asked whether the Government will manage to agree a deal with the EU before 30 March 2019, Mr Murphy said: "I don't think Brexit will happen. I don't think the Government has the votes."

    Whoever this man is, what he says is utter nonsense. He's yet another fool who thinks that everything important happens in the Westminster bubble.

    We are leaving the EU. Whether MPs like it or not doesn't change that. They might as well repeal the Indian Independence Act 1947.
    It's not like Indian Independence. We can and will rejoin if we do leave.
    Glad you are so certain. After all that is going on it is more than likely we will remain an Independent Country trading with the EU and the rest of the World for a very long time
    More likely we'll end up like Switzerland or Norway... following all the rules but influencing none of them. And paying for the privilege. :disappointed:
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712

    RoyalBlue said:

    Blair aide predicts Brexit won't happen:

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/tony-blair/news/89127/excl-former-key-adviser-tony-blair-says

    Asked whether the Government will manage to agree a deal with the EU before 30 March 2019, Mr Murphy said: "I don't think Brexit will happen. I don't think the Government has the votes."

    Whoever this man is, what he says is utter nonsense. He's yet another fool who thinks that everything important happens in the Westminster bubble.

    We are leaving the EU. Whether MPs like it or not doesn't change that. They might as well repeal the Indian Independence Act 1947.
    It's not like Indian Independence. We can and will rejoin if we do leave.
    True. Unlike the British Empire, the EU isn't going anywhere, and will continue to be the prime mover in European politics.
    the best thing for the EU is the UK leaving

    if they all want to abolish their countries they can get on with it and best of luck etc

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849

    RoyalBlue said:

    Blair aide predicts Brexit won't happen:

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/tony-blair/news/89127/excl-former-key-adviser-tony-blair-says

    Asked whether the Government will manage to agree a deal with the EU before 30 March 2019, Mr Murphy said: "I don't think Brexit will happen. I don't think the Government has the votes."

    Whoever this man is, what he says is utter nonsense. He's yet another fool who thinks that everything important happens in the Westminster bubble.

    We are leaving the EU. Whether MPs like it or not doesn't change that. They might as well repeal the Indian Independence Act 1947.
    It's not like Indian Independence. We can and will rejoin if we do leave.
    True. Unlike the British Empire, the EU isn't going anywhere, and will continue to be the prime mover in European politics.
    the best thing for the EU is the UK leaving

    if they all want to abolish their countries they can get on with it and best of luck etc

    For once I agree with you Alan! :smile:
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Portugal ?
  • RoyalBlue said:

    Blair aide predicts Brexit won't happen:

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/tony-blair/news/89127/excl-former-key-adviser-tony-blair-says

    Asked whether the Government will manage to agree a deal with the EU before 30 March 2019, Mr Murphy said: "I don't think Brexit will happen. I don't think the Government has the votes."

    Whoever this man is, what he says is utter nonsense. He's yet another fool who thinks that everything important happens in the Westminster bubble.

    We are leaving the EU. Whether MPs like it or not doesn't change that. They might as well repeal the Indian Independence Act 1947.
    It's not like Indian Independence. We can and will rejoin if we do leave.
    Glad you are so certain. After all that is going on it is more than likely we will remain an Independent Country trading with the EU and the rest of the World for a very long time
    More likely we'll end up like Switzerland or Norway... following all the rules but influencing none of them. And paying for the privilege. :disappointed:
    Canada is the eventual model
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    RoyalBlue said:

    Blair aide predicts Brexit won't happen:

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/tony-blair/news/89127/excl-former-key-adviser-tony-blair-says

    Asked whether the Government will manage to agree a deal with the EU before 30 March 2019, Mr Murphy said: "I don't think Brexit will happen. I don't think the Government has the votes."

    Whoever this man is, what he says is utter nonsense. He's yet another fool who thinks that everything important happens in the Westminster bubble.

    We are leaving the EU. Whether MPs like it or not doesn't change that. They might as well repeal the Indian Independence Act 1947.
    It's not like Indian Independence. We can and will rejoin if we do leave.
    It is, in that reverting to the previous state is not in the sole gift of the British government. You might accept Carthaginian terms to rejoin, but the nation won't.
  • RoyalBlue said:

    Blair aide predicts Brexit won't happen:

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/tony-blair/news/89127/excl-former-key-adviser-tony-blair-says

    Asked whether the Government will manage to agree a deal with the EU before 30 March 2019, Mr Murphy said: "I don't think Brexit will happen. I don't think the Government has the votes."

    Whoever this man is, what he says is utter nonsense. He's yet another fool who thinks that everything important happens in the Westminster bubble.

    We are leaving the EU. Whether MPs like it or not doesn't change that. They might as well repeal the Indian Independence Act 1947.
    It's not like Indian Independence. We can and will rejoin if we do leave.
    Glad you are so certain. After all that is going on it is more than likely we will remain an Independent Country trading with the EU and the rest of the World for a very long time
    More likely we'll end up like Switzerland or Norway... following all the rules but influencing none of them. And paying for the privilege. :disappointed:
    Canada is the eventual model
    How much does Canada pay to get free trade?
  • surbiton said:

    Portugal ?
    A quick Google search shows that "Royal Institute Elcano" is not a Portugese opinion pollster, it is a Spanish thinktank.

    Take those results with a bucket of salt.
  • surbiton said:

    blueblue said:

    Compare the Goldilocks economy the Tories left Labour in 1997 with the unholy shitstorm Labour left them in 2010. Now imagine the atomic wasteland Corbyn will leave in his wake if we're ever stupid enough to elect him...
    So why did the Tories lose - and lose so badly - in 1997 if they left behind such a fabulous economy ? The 1997 defeat was one of the biggest in history.
    Because the Tories were old, tired and divided while Blair was soft, friendly and fresh.

    The economy doing so well added to the defeat as the country could afford to go for a change.
  • surbiton said:

    blueblue said:

    Compare the Goldilocks economy the Tories left Labour in 1997 with the unholy shitstorm Labour left them in 2010. Now imagine the atomic wasteland Corbyn will leave in his wake if we're ever stupid enough to elect him...
    So why did the Tories lose - and lose so badly - in 1997 if they left behind such a fabulous economy ? The 1997 defeat was one of the biggest in history.
    18 years in power and 4 consecutive terms naturally turbocharged the "time for a change" feeling - look at the way Americans almost never elect the same party to the Presidency for three terms in a row, regardless of any other relevant factor. Plus Blair was all cool and socially liberal and shit - essentially laying the foundations for the immense backlash that created today's UK culture wars.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,878

    RoyalBlue said:

    Blair aide predicts Brexit won't happen:

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/tony-blair/news/89127/excl-former-key-adviser-tony-blair-says

    Asked whether the Government will manage to agree a deal with the EU before 30 March 2019, Mr Murphy said: "I don't think Brexit will happen. I don't think the Government has the votes."

    Whoever this man is, what he says is utter nonsense. He's yet another fool who thinks that everything important happens in the Westminster bubble.

    We are leaving the EU. Whether MPs like it or not doesn't change that. They might as well repeal the Indian Independence Act 1947.
    It's not like Indian Independence. We can and will rejoin if we do leave.
    Glad you are so certain. After all that is going on it is more than likely we will remain an Independent Country trading with the EU and the rest of the World for a very long time
    More likely we'll end up like Switzerland or Norway... following all the rules but influencing none of them. And paying for the privilege. :disappointed:
    Canada is the eventual model
    How much does Canada pay to get free trade?
    There will be a permanent cost associated with the infrastucture of CETA, as there is with NAFTA*. I assume that the parties will split it down the middle.

    It is worth noting that the numbers people throw around for Norway's membership of the Single Market are inflated. Only about 40% of the total is for access to the single market, with the rest being Norway's fees - on a body-by-body basis - for membership of certain EU administered bodies such as Erasmus, the ESA and Gallileo.

    * The NAFTA number is several billion dollars, almost all of which is spent inside the US. I can't imagine that CETA will be anything like as expensive.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,718

    Breaking News - Verhotstadt says a solution to Ireland will be found and Donald Tusk flying to London to meet Theresa May in Downing Street next Tuesday

    Verhofstadt is pushing for special status for Northern Ireland.

    https://twitter.com/SiobhanFenton/status/910465416333492224
    It sounds a good solution, after all NI did vote to Remain.
    Wonder when Scotland will get same deal, we voted overwhelmingly to stay.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,761
    LD PPB LOL

    Oh dear they have given up surely
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    edited September 2017

    RoyalBlue said:

    Blair aide predicts Brexit won't happen:

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/tony-blair/news/89127/excl-former-key-adviser-tony-blair-says

    Asked whether the Government will manage to agree a deal with the EU before 30 March 2019, Mr Murphy said: "I don't think Brexit will happen. I don't think the Government has the votes."

    Whoever this man is, what he says is utter nonsense. He's yet another fool who thinks that everything important happens in the Westminster bubble.

    We are leaving the EU. Whether MPs like it or not doesn't change that. They might as well repeal the Indian Independence Act 1947.
    It's not like Indian Independence. We can and will rejoin if we do leave.
    Glad you are so certain. After all that is going on it is more than likely we will remain an Independent Country trading with the EU and the rest of the World for a very long time
    More likely we'll end up like Switzerland or Norway... following all the rules but influencing none of them. And paying for the privilege. :disappointed:
    The idea that the EU is a regulatory superpower is less valid as time passes. More and more regulations are agreed at a global level; the EU just acts as a pass-through. See Richard North's work on Flexcit for details.
  • I see Britain continues to suffer from austerity with retail sales reaching another new high:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/retailindustry/timeseries/j467/drsi

    We buy now more than twice what we did during the Lawson Boom era of loadsamoney and red-braced yuppies.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712
    malcolmg said:

    Breaking News - Verhotstadt says a solution to Ireland will be found and Donald Tusk flying to London to meet Theresa May in Downing Street next Tuesday

    Verhofstadt is pushing for special status for Northern Ireland.

    https://twitter.com/SiobhanFenton/status/910465416333492224
    It sounds a good solution, after all NI did vote to Remain.
    Wonder when Scotland will get same deal, we voted overwhelmingly to stay.
    Were special youre not

    get over it
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,761

    LD PPB LOL

    Oh dear they have given up surely

    Apart from the hat
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047

    I see Britain continues to suffer from austerity with retail sales reaching another new high:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/retailindustry/timeseries/j467/drsi

    We buy now more than twice what we did during the Lawson Boom era of loadsamoney and red-braced yuppies.

    And one day we are going to have to pay it all.
  • malcolmg said:

    Breaking News - Verhotstadt says a solution to Ireland will be found and Donald Tusk flying to London to meet Theresa May in Downing Street next Tuesday

    Verhofstadt is pushing for special status for Northern Ireland.

    https://twitter.com/SiobhanFenton/status/910465416333492224
    It sounds a good solution, after all NI did vote to Remain.
    Wonder when Scotland will get same deal, we voted overwhelmingly to stay.
    Were special youre not

    get over it
    You only slice salami one piece at a time. Once the principle has been conceded, it's game on.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,718

    malcolmg said:

    Breaking News - Verhotstadt says a solution to Ireland will be found and Donald Tusk flying to London to meet Theresa May in Downing Street next Tuesday

    Verhofstadt is pushing for special status for Northern Ireland.

    https://twitter.com/SiobhanFenton/status/910465416333492224
    It sounds a good solution, after all NI did vote to Remain.
    Wonder when Scotland will get same deal, we voted overwhelmingly to stay.
    Were special youre not

    get over it
    very special
  • An Iberian Union makes far more sense than your crazy EU contraption.
    Would they still be in different time zones?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712

    malcolmg said:

    Breaking News - Verhotstadt says a solution to Ireland will be found and Donald Tusk flying to London to meet Theresa May in Downing Street next Tuesday

    Verhofstadt is pushing for special status for Northern Ireland.

    https://twitter.com/SiobhanFenton/status/910465416333492224
    It sounds a good solution, after all NI did vote to Remain.
    Wonder when Scotland will get same deal, we voted overwhelmingly to stay.
    Were special youre not

    get over it
    You only slice salami one piece at a time. Once the principle has been conceded, it's game on.
    nope

    the EU doesnt like Scots unless they live in Ireland

    we have beautiful scenery, whiskey and Aslan

    you have Nicola Sturgeon

    game over
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Breaking News - Verhotstadt says a solution to Ireland will be found and Donald Tusk flying to London to meet Theresa May in Downing Street next Tuesday

    Verhofstadt is pushing for special status for Northern Ireland.

    https://twitter.com/SiobhanFenton/status/910465416333492224
    It sounds a good solution, after all NI did vote to Remain.
    Wonder when Scotland will get same deal, we voted overwhelmingly to stay.
    Were special youre not

    get over it
    very special
    if you behave yourself we;ll take back the western Isles

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dál_Riata

  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    RoyalBlue said:

    Blair aide predicts Brexit won't happen:

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/tony-blair/news/89127/excl-former-key-adviser-tony-blair-says

    Asked whether the Government will manage to agree a deal with the EU before 30 March 2019, Mr Murphy said: "I don't think Brexit will happen. I don't think the Government has the votes."

    Whoever this man is, what he says is utter nonsense. He's yet another fool who thinks that everything important happens in the Westminster bubble.

    We are leaving the EU. Whether MPs like it or not doesn't change that. They might as well repeal the Indian Independence Act 1947.
    It's not like Indian Independence. We can and will rejoin if we do leave.
    Glad you are so certain. After all that is going on it is more than likely we will remain an Independent Country trading with the EU and the rest of the World for a very long time
    I draw your attention to the fact that the cabinet is not currently united on the form Brexit should take. This is a serious problem and it doesn't look like it is going away. When we leave we will have an ongoing issue about our relationship with the EU. Do we move closer or further away. Euratom for example - we should obviously be a part of. Pharmacovigilance of medicines. What possible benefit is there from leaving that? Given the UK more or less wrote the EU's book on that, it would be particularly perverse to decide to come up with our own way of doing things different to what we created when we were in. Are leavers really going to argue that we leave every single EU institution? Even if they do, and they succeed the cleaner the break the more likely the future direction of travel will be back in. If we leave but remain in a whole set of arrangements with the EU, well what is the point of giving up our influence? The point is that rejoining is straight forward and simple. Staying out will require constant effort on the part of its supporters.

    And remember that there is no current consensus on just how we should leave and what the goal of Brexit is. Leavers will find themselves with different priorities and red lines.

    There is no doubt in my mind that the day after we leave we will start the process that will take us back in and that the case for rejoining will grow steadily over time. We will be back in.
  • RoyalBlue said:

    Blair aide predicts Brexit won't happen:

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/tony-blair/news/89127/excl-former-key-adviser-tony-blair-says

    Asked whether the Government will manage to agree a deal with the EU before 30 March 2019, Mr Murphy said: "I don't think Brexit will happen. I don't think the Government has the votes."

    Whoever this man is, what he says is utter nonsense. He's yet another fool who thinks that everything important happens in the Westminster bubble.

    We are leaving the EU. Whether MPs like it or not doesn't change that. They might as well repeal the Indian Independence Act 1947.
    It's not like Indian Independence. We can and will rejoin if we do leave.
    Glad you are so certain. After all that is going on it is more than likely we will remain an Independent Country trading with the EU and the rest of the World for a very long time
    I draw your attention to the fact that the cabinet is not currently united on the form Brexit should take. This is a serious problem and it doesn't look like it is going away. When we leave we will have an ongoing issue about our relationship with the EU. Do we move closer or further away. Euratom for example - we should obviously be a part of. Pharmacovigilance of medicines. What possible benefit is there from leaving that? Given the UK more or less wrote the EU's book on that, it would be particularly perverse to decide to come up with our own way of doing things different to what we created when we were in. Are leavers really going to argue that we leave every single EU institution? Even if they do, and they succeed the cleaner the break the more likely the future direction of travel will be back in. If we leave but remain in a whole set of arrangements with the EU, well what is the point of giving up our influence? The point is that rejoining is straight forward and simple. Staying out will require constant effort on the part of its supporters.

    And remember that there is no current consensus on just how we should leave and what the goal of Brexit is. Leavers will find themselves with different priorities and red lines.

    There is no doubt in my mind that the day after we leave we will start the process that will take us back in and that the case for rejoining will grow steadily over time. We will be back in.
    Rejoining is anything but simple. Poll last week showed 62% want out with 27% remain.
    You are assuming it will all go wrong but there are plenty who see a brighter future away from Junckers and the rest
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,402
    edited September 2017
    A Canadian perspective on Mrs May's trip to Canada and her attempt to drum up interest in a Brexit deal with TheRestOfTheWorld. Canada is happy to take the EU deal as a template and recast it to Canada's advantage because they know we're in a weak position. So we will have no deal or a worse deal with the EU and no deal or a worse deal with everyone else. Thus confirming what some of us knew all the long.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712
    FF43 said:

    A Canadian perspective on Mrs May's trip to Canada and her attempt to drum up interest in a Brexit deal with TheRestOfTheWorld. Canada is happy to take the EU deal as a template and recast it to Canada's advantage because they know we're in a weak position. So we will have no deal or a worse deal with the EU and no deal or a worse deal with everyone else. Thus confirming what some of us knew all the long.

    people who were so clever they were otwitted by a bus
  • FF43 said:

    A Canadian perspective on Mrs May's trip to Canada and her attempt to drum up interest in a Brexit deal with TheRestOfTheWorld. Canada is happy to take the EU deal as a template and recast it to Canada's advantage because they know we're in a weak position. So we will have no deal or a worse deal with the EU and no deal or a worse deal with everyone else. Thus confirming what some of us knew all the long.

    That assumes what the EU wants from a deal with Canada is the same as what the UK would want.

    I doubt, for example, that the UK would be as concerned as much for the well-being of French farmers.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712

    FF43 said:

    A Canadian perspective on Mrs May's trip to Canada and her attempt to drum up interest in a Brexit deal with TheRestOfTheWorld. Canada is happy to take the EU deal as a template and recast it to Canada's advantage because they know we're in a weak position. So we will have no deal or a worse deal with the EU and no deal or a worse deal with everyone else. Thus confirming what some of us knew all the long.

    That assumes what the EU wants from a deal with Canada is the same as what the UK would want.

    I doubt, for example, that the UK would be as concerned as much for the well-being of French farmers.
    oh why even bother

    WW3 is due to break our any day now assuming england doesnt fall in to the sea first
  • FF43 said:

    A Canadian perspective on Mrs May's trip to Canada and her attempt to drum up interest in a Brexit deal with TheRestOfTheWorld. Canada is happy to take the EU deal as a template and recast it to Canada's advantage because they know we're in a weak position. So we will have no deal or a worse deal with the EU and no deal or a worse deal with everyone else. Thus confirming what some of us knew all the long.

    people who were so clever they were otwitted by a bus
    We were outwitted because we were too optimistic, we underestimated the number of thick uneducated whiny bitch ass plebs out there.

    We should have told those lazy twats 'If someone who can't speak English beats you to a job, then look in the mirror, stop blaming immigrants and learn a vocation.'

    We won't make that mistake in the rejoining referendum.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Breaking News - Verhotstadt says a solution to Ireland will be found and Donald Tusk flying to London to meet Theresa May in Downing Street next Tuesday

    Verhofstadt is pushing for special status for Northern Ireland.

    https://twitter.com/SiobhanFenton/status/910465416333492224
    It sounds a good solution, after all NI did vote to Remain.
    Wonder when Scotland will get same deal, we voted overwhelmingly to stay.
    Were special youre not

    get over it
    very special
    if you behave yourself we;ll take back the western Isles

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dál_Riata

    Mad McAdder, Cousin of Edmund Blackadder, Esq:
    I hear you have a cunning plan.

    Blackadder:
    I do, I do. I want you to take the place of the Prince Regent and kill the Duke of Wellington in a duel.

    Mad McAdder, Cousin of Edmund Blackadder, Esq:
    Aye, and what's in it for me?

    Blackadder:
    Enough cash to buy the Outer Hebrides. What do you think?

    Mad McAdder, Cousin of Edmund Blackadder, Esq:
    Fourteen shillings and six-pence? Well, it's tempting.
  • RoyalBlue said:

    Blair aide predicts Brexit won't happen:

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/tony-blair/news/89127/excl-former-key-adviser-tony-blair-says

    Asked whether the Government will manage to agree a deal with the EU before 30 March 2019, Mr Murphy said: "I don't think Brexit will happen. I don't think the Government has the votes."

    Whoever this man is, what he says is utter nonsense. He's yet another fool who thinks that everything important happens in the Westminster bubble.

    We are leaving the EU. Whether MPs like it or not doesn't change that. They might as well repeal the Indian Independence Act 1947.
    It's not like Indian Independence. We can and will rejoin if we do leave.
    Glad you are so certain. After all that is going on it is more than likely we will remain an Independent Country trading with the EU and the rest of the World for a very long time
    I draw your attention to the fact that the cabinet is not currently united on the form Brexit should take. This is a serious problem and it doesn't look like it is going away. When we leave we will have an ongoing issue about our relationship with the EU. Do we move closer or further away. Euratom for example - we should obviously be a part of. Pharmacovigilance of medicines. What possible benefit is there from leaving that? Given the UK more or less wrote the EU's book on that, it would be particularly perverse to decide to come up with our own way of doing things different to what we created when we were in. Are leavers really going to argue that we leave every single EU institution? Even if they do, and they succeed the cleaner the break the more likely the future direction of travel will be back in. If we leave but remain in a whole set of arrangements with the EU, well what is the point of giving up our influence? The point is that rejoining is straight forward and simple. Staying out will require constant effort on the part of its supporters.

    And remember that there is no current consensus on just how we should leave and what the goal of Brexit is. Leavers will find themselves with different priorities and red lines.

    There is no doubt in my mind that the day after we leave we will start the process that will take us back in and that the case for rejoining will grow steadily over time. We will be back in.
    Not this century. It simply will not happen. Opposition to the EU will only increase once we are out.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712

    FF43 said:

    A Canadian perspective on Mrs May's trip to Canada and her attempt to drum up interest in a Brexit deal with TheRestOfTheWorld. Canada is happy to take the EU deal as a template and recast it to Canada's advantage because they know we're in a weak position. So we will have no deal or a worse deal with the EU and no deal or a worse deal with everyone else. Thus confirming what some of us knew all the long.

    people who were so clever they were otwitted by a bus
    We were outwitted because we were too optimistic, we underestimated the number of thick uneducated whiny bitch ass plebs out there.

    We should have told those lazy twats 'If someone who can't speak English beats you to a job, then look in the mirror, stop blaming immigrants and learn a vocation.'

    We won't make that mistake in the rejoining referendum.
    ROFL

    well the good news is youre in with a chance

    this time you dont have George to fk it all up
  • chloechloe Posts: 308
    Rejoining is anything but simple. Poll last week showed 62% want out with 27% remain.
    You are assuming it will all go wrong but there are plenty who see a brighter future away from Junckers and the rest

    It all depends on how successful Brexit is. I wasn't convinced that Brexit was a good idea before the referendum and I am no more convinced now. If the economy suffers and living standards deteriorate then the next generation of politicians will lead us back in via a positive referendum vote.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,357
    edited September 2017
    calum said:
    Folk talking about the many, to a very few.

    I'm guessing the iniquities of private education won't be featuring much.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    FF43 said:

    A Canadian perspective on Mrs May's trip to Canada and her attempt to drum up interest in a Brexit deal with TheRestOfTheWorld. Canada is happy to take the EU deal as a template and recast it to Canada's advantage because they know we're in a weak position. So we will have no deal or a worse deal with the EU and no deal or a worse deal with everyone else. Thus confirming what some of us knew all the long.

    people who were so clever they were otwitted by a bus
    We were outwitted because we were too optimistic, we underestimated the number of thick uneducated whiny bitch ass plebs out there.

    We should have told those lazy twats 'If someone who can't speak English beats you to a job, then look in the mirror, stop blaming immigrants and learn a vocation.'

    We won't make that mistake in the rejoining referendum.
    Better hope it's not a double decker you're up against next time then.

    The "bus" has to be well up there with "Labour's not working", and "morning in America" and "things can only get better", as an all time classic.

    I mean folk are still wibbling about it fifteen months on: a bus. Most of the Govt, the overwhelming majority of the PPL, the Lib Dems, three sets of Nats, the TUC, the CBI, the IMF, the EU, and POTUS, lost - to a bus.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    FF43 said:

    A Canadian perspective on Mrs May's trip to Canada and her attempt to drum up interest in a Brexit deal with TheRestOfTheWorld. Canada is happy to take the EU deal as a template and recast it to Canada's advantage because they know we're in a weak position. So we will have no deal or a worse deal with the EU and no deal or a worse deal with everyone else. Thus confirming what some of us knew all the long.

    people who were so clever they were otwitted by a bus
    We were outwitted because we were too optimistic, we underestimated the number of thick uneducated whiny bitch ass plebs out there.

    We should have told those lazy twats 'If someone who can't speak English beats you to a job, then look in the mirror, stop blaming immigrants and learn a vocation.'

    We won't make that mistake in the rejoining referendum.
    Whilst i agree with youre sentiment if not your expression i remain amazed at the number of people who want a "hard brexit" when you point out the potential implications they don't give a damn. They believe it can all be sorted out afterwards when the EU has learned its lesson. No consideration of no border deal, not concerned that key jobs will remain unfilled and no concern that our planes can't fly. Apparently in 20 yeats time it will all be worth it!
  • Theresa live on Sky addressing the UN
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,344
    edited September 2017
    I'm off to the cinema so you can guarantee something major is going to happen.

    Boris can you keep your mouth and flies zipped up for the next three hours.

    You ruined date night last Friday, so you owe me.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712
    edited September 2017
    O Leary getting deeper in the brown stuff

    http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ryanair-pilots-at-almost-20-bases-across-europe-now-demand-permanent-contracts-under-local-laws-36152735.html

    when he said he'd cancel UK flights he meant it, though taking out the rest of Europe too seems a bit extreme
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    welshowl said:

    FF43 said:

    A Canadian perspective on Mrs May's trip to Canada and her attempt to drum up interest in a Brexit deal with TheRestOfTheWorld. Canada is happy to take the EU deal as a template and recast it to Canada's advantage because they know we're in a weak position. So we will have no deal or a worse deal with the EU and no deal or a worse deal with everyone else. Thus confirming what some of us knew all the long.

    people who were so clever they were otwitted by a bus
    We were outwitted because we were too optimistic, we underestimated the number of thick uneducated whiny bitch ass plebs out there.

    We should have told those lazy twats 'If someone who can't speak English beats you to a job, then look in the mirror, stop blaming immigrants and learn a vocation.'

    We won't make that mistake in the rejoining referendum.
    Better hope it's not a double decker you're up against next time then.

    The "bus" has to be well up there with "Labour's not working", and "morning in America" and "things can only get better", as an all time classic.

    I mean folk are still wibbling about it fifteen months on: a bus. Most of the Govt, the overwhelming majority of the PPL, the Lib Dems, three sets of Nats, the TUC, the CBI, the IMF, the EU, and POTUS, lost - to a bus.
    Remain = tribal chief who can't get it up and can't accept the fact of his own failure, so someone must have cast a spell on his thingy.

    Spookily enough, in Greek and Roman antiquity spells were most often cast by writing words and numbers on a metal object: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_tablet
  • Ally_BAlly_B Posts: 185
    edited September 2017
    chloe said:

    Rejoining is anything but simple. Poll last week showed 62% want out with 27% remain. You are assuming it will all go wrong but there are plenty who see a brighter future away from Junckers and the rest.

    In a year's time, once the exit terms are confirmed, you say to the country this is what we have agreed. Do we ask to remain or choose any one of the many "50 shades of leave" options we have put on the ballot paper. The one getting the most votes wins.
  • FF43 said:

    A Canadian perspective on Mrs May's trip to Canada and her attempt to drum up interest in a Brexit deal with TheRestOfTheWorld. Canada is happy to take the EU deal as a template and recast it to Canada's advantage because they know we're in a weak position. So we will have no deal or a worse deal with the EU and no deal or a worse deal with everyone else. Thus confirming what some of us knew all the long.

    people who were so clever they were otwitted by a bus
    We were outwitted because we were too optimistic, we underestimated the number of thick uneducated whiny bitch ass plebs out there.

    We should have told those lazy twats 'If someone who can't speak English beats you to a job, then look in the mirror, stop blaming immigrants and learn a vocation.'

    We won't make that mistake in the rejoining referendum.
    If we rejoin, we'd have to join the Euro, not to mention being forced to drive on the right and to speak French.
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    welshowl said:

    FF43 said:

    A Canadian perspective on Mrs May's trip to Canada and her attempt to drum up interest in a Brexit deal with TheRestOfTheWorld. Canada is happy to take the EU deal as a template and recast it to Canada's advantage because they know we're in a weak position. So we will have no deal or a worse deal with the EU and no deal or a worse deal with everyone else. Thus confirming what some of us knew all the long.

    people who were so clever they were otwitted by a bus
    We were outwitted because we were too optimistic, we underestimated the number of thick uneducated whiny bitch ass plebs out there.

    We should have told those lazy twats 'If someone who can't speak English beats you to a job, then look in the mirror, stop blaming immigrants and learn a vocation.'

    We won't make that mistake in the rejoining referendum.
    Better hope it's not a double decker you're up against next time then.

    The "bus" has to be well up there with "Labour's not working", and "morning in America" and "things can only get better", as an all time classic.

    I mean folk are still wibbling about it fifteen months on: a bus. Most of the Govt, the overwhelming majority of the PPL, the Lib Dems, three sets of Nats, the TUC, the CBI, the IMF, the EU, and POTUS, lost - to a bus.
    Remain = tribal chief who can't get it up and can't accept the fact of his own failure, so someone must have cast a spell on his thingy.

    Spookily enough, in Greek and Roman antiquity spells were most often cast by writing words and numbers on a metal object: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_tablet
    I only take viagra to stop myself rolling out of bed.
  • Theresa live on Sky addressing the UN

    Listening to Theresa, close your eyes and think of Corbyn doing this - God forbid
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