We've talked about this here before. If Trump is going to deliver for the rust states that voted for him he needs to get this money back onshore AND have conditionality that requires it to be invested in the US. The latter bit is the tricky bit but small IT companies or other US companies with IP that is going to interest the tech giants with money to burn are looking like serious buys for me.
"Merkel, for instance, has often been criticized by Trump and has often criticized him back. Her popularity has increased, and her advisers have half-jokingly credited the “Trump factor” for the sharp rebound in her approval ratings over the past year.
By contrast, U.K. Prime Minister Theresa May has a warmer relationship with Trump. She was the first foreign leader to visit Trump in January after his inauguration, when she congratulated him on his “stunning electoral victory.” But she was criticized for not pushing back on Trump as much as her European colleagues or her rivals from other parties after Trump withdrew the U.S. from the Paris climate accords on June 1 and then instigated a fight with the mayor of London after the terrorist attack in London two days later. Her Conservatives suffered a humiliating result, blowing a 17 percentage point polling lead and losing their majority in Parliament; it’s now not clear how much longer she’ll continue as prime minister. Trump was not May’s only problem, but he certainly didn’t help." https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trump-is-making-europe-liberal-again/
"Merkel, for instance, has often been criticized by Trump and has often criticized him back. Her popularity has increased, and her advisers have half-jokingly credited the “Trump factor” for the sharp rebound in her approval ratings over the past year.
By contrast, U.K. Prime Minister Theresa May has a warmer relationship with Trump. She was the first foreign leader to visit Trump in January after his inauguration, when she congratulated him on his “stunning electoral victory.” But she was criticized for not pushing back on Trump as much as her European colleagues or her rivals from other parties after Trump withdrew the U.S. from the Paris climate accords on June 1 and then instigated a fight with the mayor of London after the terrorist attack in London two days later. Her Conservatives suffered a humiliating result, blowing a 17 percentage point polling lead and losing their majority in Parliament; it’s now not clear how much longer she’ll continue as prime minister. Trump was not May’s only problem, but he certainly didn’t help." https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trump-is-making-europe-liberal-again/
I think Merkel's popularity has more to do with Schulz being crap.
Yes, but note the protesters had been bussed in by far-right groups. I've got a piece on the state of German opinion coming on the site later today. The latest polling data from Saxony, where she was speaking, shows her CDU on 46% (3.4% up on last time)
Nationally though the latest poll has the CDU on just 34% nationally and the AfD third on 11% which means CDU FDP will likely not have the numbers for a majority and with the SPD wary of another Grand Coalition a CDU minority government is possible
Do we pay them benefits though? Genuine question, I have no idea.
It is another demonstration of the Home Office not being fit for purpose.
The BBC article I linked suggest those restrictions are in effect.
If they are not claiming benefits are they not living on their own resources? In which event are they not entitled to be here? IANAE in this but there are very strict rules about what is meant by "own resources" for non EU citizens. I don't think they would be the test or apply to EU citizens, at least not at the moment.
Do we pay them benefits though? Genuine question, I have no idea.
It is another demonstration of the Home Office not being fit for purpose.
It's a disgrace that these restrictions weren't enforced, if remain had campaigned on implementing them they may well have won. Most people were unaware they existed and assumed free movement was what it said leading to open doors to scroungers etc.
One of the things I find most impressive about Matt is that I have no real idea of his actual political views. He is able to poke fun at almost anyone or any position if he sees the opportunity.
Do we pay them benefits though? Genuine question, I have no idea.
It is another demonstration of the Home Office not being fit for purpose.
It's a disgrace that these restrictions weren't enforced, if remain had campaigned on implementing them they may well have won. Most people were unaware they existed and assumed free movement was what it said leading to open doors to scroungers etc.
I would like to see some evidence to back up the claims in that tweet. From what I've read the benefit restrictions are enforced.
"Merkel, for instance, has often been criticized by Trump and has often criticized him back. Her popularity has increased, and her advisers have half-jokingly credited the “Trump factor” for the sharp rebound in her approval ratings over the past year.
By contrast, U.K. Prime Minister Theresa May has a warmer relationship with Trump. She was the first foreign leader to visit Trump in January after his inauguration, when she congratulated him on his “stunning electoral victory.” But she was criticized for not pushing back on Trump as much as her European colleagues or her rivals from other parties after Trump withdrew the U.S. from the Paris climate accords on June 1 and then instigated a fight with the mayor of London after the terrorist attack in London two days later. Her Conservatives suffered a humiliating result, blowing a 17 percentage point polling lead and losing their majority in Parliament; it’s now not clear how much longer she’ll continue as prime minister. Trump was not May’s only problem, but he certainly didn’t help." https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trump-is-making-europe-liberal-again/
I think Merkel's popularity has more to do with Schulz being crap.
If you look at Merkel's polling recovery it does coincide with her trip to the US. I don't think Trump behaving totally cretinously around her did her much harm at home, put it that way. What's striking is that mainstream European politicians who are perceived to be close to Trump (close being a relative term, of course) tend to fare badly in electoral terms. It happened to May - and just look at Macron's decline since he invited Trump to France. Of course, Trump's election in the US and Brexit in the UK was also supposed to herald the rise of right wing populism across Europe, but that hasn't happened either. Trump has set the right back a long way on this side of the pond.
Mr. Observer, agree on Macron and Merkel, but May (lots of Ms around...) is a different kettle of fish. She wasn't sunk by Trump, she was sunk by attacking her own hull with an axe, then sailing into a storm, then setting fire to the sail, then wondering why her sudden expedition wasn't going terribly well. It was the most self-inflicted wound since Sideshow Bob walked into 27 rakes.
Yes, but note the protesters had been bussed in by far-right groups. I've got a piece on the state of German opinion coming on the site later today. The latest polling data from Saxony, where she was speaking, shows her CDU on 46% (3.4% up on last time)
Nationally though the latest poll has the CDU on just 34% nationally and the AfD third on 11% which means CDU FDP will likely not have the numbers for a majority and with the SPD wary of another Grand Coalition a CDU minority government is possible
Mr. Observer, agree on Macron and Merkel, but May (lots of Ms around...) is a different kettle of fish. She wasn't sunk by Trump, she was sunk by attacking her own hull with an axe, then sailing into a storm, then setting fire to the sail, then wondering why her sudden expedition wasn't going terribly well. It was the most self-inflicted wound since Sideshow Bob walked into 27 rakes.
May drove a lot of essentially moderate people into the arms of Corbyn electorally because she veered so far to the right with Brexit. Her embrace of Trump was symptomatic of that.
"Merkel, for instance, has often been criticized by Trump and has often criticized him back. Her popularity has increased, and her advisers have half-jokingly credited the “Trump factor” for the sharp rebound in her approval ratings over the past year.
By contrast, U.K. Prime Minister Theresa May has a warmer relationship with Trump. She was the first foreign leader to visit Trump in January after his inauguration, when she congratulated him on his “stunning electoral victory.” But she was criticized for not pushing back on Trump as much as her European colleagues or her rivals from other parties after Trump withdrew the U.S. from the Paris climate accords on June 1 and then instigated a fight with the mayor of London after the terrorist attack in London two days later. Her Conservatives suffered a humiliating result, blowing a 17 percentage point polling lead and losing their majority in Parliament; it’s now not clear how much longer she’ll continue as prime minister. Trump was not May’s only problem, but he certainly didn’t help." https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trump-is-making-europe-liberal-again/
I think Merkel's popularity has more to do with Schulz being crap.
If you look at Merkel's polling recovery it does coincide with her trip to the US. I don't think Trump behaving totally cretinously around her did her much harm at home, put it that way. What's striking is that mainstream European politicians who are perceived to be close to Trump (close being a relative term, of course) tend to fare badly in electoral terms. It happened to May - and just look at Macron's decline since he invited Trump to France. Of course, Trump's election in the US and Brexit in the UK was also supposed to herald the rise of right wing populism across Europe, but that hasn't happened either. Trump has set the right back a long way on this side of the pond.
The recovery started well before the visit in May.
Back in the 1980s, we used to pick our own strawberries at a farm just outside Upminster. Not sure if it's still the case.
There are still lots of pick your own places for all kinds of fruit and veg. But they are a pleasure activity rather than a necessary part of the system. It is rare to be in the position that I am in where you can use pick your own combined with our own veg garden to provide maybe 80-90% of our fruit and veg.
This is why the idea that you can limit migration based on pay scales (high pay good, low pay bad) is dumb. We do not (yet) put proper value on the work that is done by the poorer parts of our society. We only will when they stop doing it.
Do we pay them benefits though? Genuine question, I have no idea.
It is another demonstration of the Home Office not being fit for purpose.
The BBC article I linked suggest those restrictions are in effect.
If they are not claiming benefits are they not living on their own resources? In which event are they not entitled to be here? IANAE in this but there are very strict rules about what is meant by "own resources" for non EU citizens. I don't think they would be the test or apply to EU citizens, at least not at the moment.
The issue is that without any form of border checks cross referenced to employment status for EU citizens it is not possible to enforce any kind of time limits based upon wealth/income. I suppose it comes down to whether someone who is poor/begging/working under the radar would rather be doing that in the UK or their own country. I don't know there is a clear answer to that. I suspect many might rather be poor in a place with better weather.
Who remembers who was SoS for Defence during Falklands or Iraq? It would actually make sense for TMay to keep herself more in the background than Thatcher or Blair did, because of the way she comes across to the public, but I expect she would seize the chance to restore her image by doing an Agincourt or a Tilbury. It won't work, it goes without saying.
"Merkel, for instance, has often been criticized by Trump and has often criticized him back. Her popularity has increased, and her advisers have half-jokingly credited the “Trump factor” for the sharp rebound in her approval ratings over the past year.
By contrast, U.K. Prime Minister Theresa May has a warmer relationship with Trump. She was the first foreign leader to visit Trump in January after his inauguration, when she congratulated him on his “stunning electoral victory.” But she was criticized for not pushing back on Trump as much as her European colleagues or her rivals from other parties after Trump withdrew the U.S. from the Paris climate accords on June 1 and then instigated a fight with the mayor of London after the terrorist attack in London two days later. Her Conservatives suffered a humiliating result, blowing a 17 percentage point polling lead and losing their majority in Parliament; it’s now not clear how much longer she’ll continue as prime minister. Trump was not May’s only problem, but he certainly didn’t help." https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trump-is-making-europe-liberal-again/
I think Merkel's popularity has more to do with Schulz being crap.
If you look at Merkel's polling recovery it does coincide with her trip to the US. I don't think Trump behaving totally cretinously around her did her much harm at home, put it that way. What's striking is that mainstream European politicians who are perceived to be close to Trump (close being a relative term, of course) tend to fare badly in electoral terms. It happened to May - and just look at Macron's decline since he invited Trump to France. Of course, Trump's election in the US and Brexit in the UK was also supposed to herald the rise of right wing populism across Europe, but that hasn't happened either. Trump has set the right back a long way on this side of the pond.
The recovery started well before the visit in May.
Merkel visited the US in March. The polling is here:
"Merkel, for instance, has often been criticized by Trump and has often criticized him back. Her popularity has increased, and her advisers have half-jokingly credited the “Trump factor” for the sharp rebound in her approval ratings over the past year.
By contrast, U.K. Prime Minister Theresa May has a warmer relationship with Trump. She was the first foreign leader to visit Trump in January after his inauguration, when she congratulated him on his “stunning electoral victory.” But she was criticized for not pushing back on Trump as much as her European colleagues or her rivals from other parties after Trump withdrew the U.S. from the Paris climate accords on June 1 and then instigated a fight with the mayor of London after the terrorist attack in London two days later. Her Conservatives suffered a humiliating result, blowing a 17 percentage point polling lead and losing their majority in Parliament; it’s now not clear how much longer she’ll continue as prime minister. Trump was not May’s only problem, but he certainly didn’t help." https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trump-is-making-europe-liberal-again/
I think Merkel's popularity has more to do with Schulz being crap.
If you look at Merkel's polling recovery it does coincide with her trip to the US. I don't think Trump behaving totally cretinously around her did her much harm at home, put it that way. What's striking is that mainstream European politicians who are perceived to be close to Trump (close being a relative term, of course) tend to fare badly in electoral terms. It happened to May - and just look at Macron's decline since he invited Trump to France. Of course, Trump's election in the US and Brexit in the UK was also supposed to herald the rise of right wing populism across Europe, but that hasn't happened either. Trump has set the right back a long way on this side of the pond.
The recovery started well before the visit in May.
Merkel visited the US in March. The polling is here:
Who remembers who was SoS for Defence during Falklands or Iraq? It would actually make sense for TMay to keep herself more in the background than Thatcher or Blair did, because of the way she comes across to the public, but I expect she would seize the chance to restore her image by doing an Agincourt or a Tilbury. It won't work, it goes without saying.
"Merkel, for instance, has often been criticized by Trump and has often criticized him back. Her popularity has increased, and her advisers have half-jokingly credited the “Trump factor” for the sharp rebound in her approval ratings over the past year.
By contrast, U.K. Prime Minister Theresa May has a warmer relationship with Trump. She was the first foreign leader to visit Trump in January after his inauguration, when she congratulated him on his “stunning electoral victory.” But she was criticized for not pushing back on Trump as much as her European colleagues or her rivals from other parties after Trump withdrew the U.S. from the Paris climate accords on June 1 and then instigated a fight with the mayor of London after the terrorist attack in London two days later. Her Conservatives suffered a humiliating result, blowing a 17 percentage point polling lead and losing their majority in Parliament; it’s now not clear how much longer she’ll continue as prime minister. Trump was not May’s only problem, but he certainly didn’t help." https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trump-is-making-europe-liberal-again/
I think Merkel's popularity has more to do with Schulz being crap.
If you look at Merkel's polling recovery it does coincide with her trip to the US. I don't think Trump behaving totally cretinously around her did her much harm at home, put it that way. What's striking is that mainstream European politicians who are perceived to be close to Trump (close being a relative term, of course) tend to fare badly in electoral terms. It happened to May - and just look at Macron's decline since he invited Trump to France. Of course, Trump's election in the US and Brexit in the UK was also supposed to herald the rise of right wing populism across Europe, but that hasn't happened either. Trump has set the right back a long way on this side of the pond.
Very true. Trump has utterly toxified hard-Right populism. Look at its manifestations around the world: the alt-right, Farage, Putin. They now look very dreary and tired, when once they looked set to conquer the world. (Of course, in light of this changing zeitgeist, the British hard Right are yearning for the ascendancy of Jacob Rees-Mogg.)
Back in the 1980s, we used to pick our own strawberries at a farm just outside Upminster. Not sure if it's still the case.
There are still lots of pick your own places for all kinds of fruit and veg. But they are a pleasure activity rather than a necessary part of the system. It is rare to be in the position that I am in where you can use pick your own combined with our own veg garden to provide maybe 80-90% of our fruit and veg.
This is why the idea that you can limit migration based on pay scales (high pay good, low pay bad) is dumb. We do not (yet) put proper value on the work that is done by the poorer parts of our society. We only will when they stop doing it.
A point made yesterday by the All Party Parliamentary Group on Migration:
Back in the 1980s, we used to pick our own strawberries at a farm just outside Upminster. Not sure if it's still the case.
There are still lots of pick your own places for all kinds of fruit and veg. But they are a pleasure activity rather than a necessary part of the system. It is rare to be in the position that I am in where you can use pick your own combined with our own veg garden to provide maybe 80-90% of our fruit and veg.
This is why the idea that you can limit migration based on pay scales (high pay good, low pay bad) is dumb. We do not (yet) put proper value on the work that is done by the poorer parts of our society. We only will when they stop doing it.
When I was at school in the 70s the farmers in the Carse of Gowrie used to have clapped out old buses that circulated the estates in Dundee and picked up pickers every morning. They were a fairly rough crowd and I used to cycle down to the fields to join them. IIRC a day of rasps earned me about £7 and Strawberries (much harder work) nearer £10. It was good money, especially if it wasn't raining.
By the 90s the farmers were mainly relying upon visiting pickers from eastern Europe. They found that they were willing to work harder, more consistently and reliably and were overall cheaper, even if they had to provide basic accommodation for them. I think the farmers would be very reluctant to go back to relying on Dundee casual labour, even if the people of Dundee were so minded. I think a temporary visa for this sort of thing is inevitable.
Maybe we should offer free movement to Denmark. Not the rest of the EU, mind. Just Denmark.
I read on here that it's all about to kick off again with Catalonia. Sure we can put them at the "front of the queue" for trade talks?
Catalonia could well seriously kick off, a Spanish friend I spoke to a couple of weeks ago gave similar worries to those of @SouthamObserver below, that the immediate aftermath of the referendum could turn nasty. Lots of unemployed young men with not a lot to do.
At least we settled the issue in Scotland peacefully via the ballot box.
One of the things I find most impressive about Matt is that I have no real idea of his actual political views. He is able to poke fun at almost anyone or any position if he sees the opportunity.
The test should be that they make everyone laugh, irrespective of their political views on the subject of the cartoon. Matt's talent is to juxtapose two or more unrelated stories onto a single square inch of the page, and he's brilliant at it.
Maybe we should offer free movement to Denmark. Not the rest of the EU, mind. Just Denmark.
I read on here that it's all about to kick off again with Catalonia. Sure we can put them at the "front of the queue" for trade talks?
Catalonia could well seriously kick off, a Spanish friend I spoke to a couple of weeks ago gave similar worries to those of @SouthamObserver below, that the immediate aftermath of the referendum could turn nasty. Lots of unemployed young men with not a lot to do.
At least we settled the issue in Scotland peacefully via the ballot box.
Look at how some Catalan separatists behaved when the Spanish King and various ministers came to Barcelona after the terrorist attack to attend the solidarity march. They were confrontational and incredibly aggressive. Now imagine how they will react when the referendum result is ignored by the entire world, Catalan separatist politicians face huge fines and prison terms and the Spanish state takes powers back from the regional government. There is no doubt they will take to the streets and from there it only needs one bad reaction from a guardia civil to a bottle, a shove, some spitting or anything else for things to get very nasty indeed. Barcelona will be incredibly tense in the weeks following he referendum on 1st October. I don't see how it doesn't end badly.
Maybe we should offer free movement to Denmark. Not the rest of the EU, mind. Just Denmark.
I read on here that it's all about to kick off again with Catalonia. Sure we can put them at the "front of the queue" for trade talks?
Catalonia could well seriously kick off, a Spanish friend I spoke to a couple of weeks ago gave similar worries to those of @SouthamObserver below, that the immediate aftermath of the referendum could turn nasty. Lots of unemployed young men with not a lot to do.
At least we settled the issue in Scotland peacefully via the ballot box.
'Settled' is optimistic but yes, it's inconceivable that the question won't be resolved one way or the other, through the democratic process.
You can all fuck right off if post Brexit I have to pick my own fruit and veg.
I did not work hard at school and university to do manual labour.
My Oxford college has had the horrible wheeze of getting current undergraduates to ring alumni for a jolly chat and to try and weasel donations (or possibly legacies?) out of them. Not sure whether this is an admission that they will end up working in call centres so they might as well get used to it. On the plus side, I know a bit more about selective call blocking software than I used to.
Maybe we should offer free movement to Denmark. Not the rest of the EU, mind. Just Denmark.
I read on here that it's all about to kick off again with Catalonia. Sure we can put them at the "front of the queue" for trade talks?
Catalonia could well seriously kick off, a Spanish friend I spoke to a couple of weeks ago gave similar worries to those of @SouthamObserver below, that the immediate aftermath of the referendum could turn nasty. Lots of unemployed young men with not a lot to do.
At least we settled the issue in Scotland peacefully via the ballot box.
Look at how some Catalan separatists behaved when the Spanish King and various ministers came to Barcelona after the terrorist attack to attend the solidarity march. They were confrontational and incredibly aggressive. Now imagine how they will react when the referendum result is ignored by the entire world, Catalan separatist politicians face huge fines and prison terms and the Spanish state takes powers back from the regional government. There is no doubt they will take to the streets and from there it only needs one bad reaction from a guardia civil to a bottle, a shove, some spitting or anything else for things to get very nasty indeed. Barcelona will be incredibly tense in the weeks following he referendum on 1st October. I don't see how it doesn't end badly.
You can all fuck right off if post Brexit I have to pick my own fruit and veg.
I did not work hard at school and university to do manual labour.
My Oxford college has had the horrible wheeze of getting current undergraduates to ring alumni for a jolly chat and to try and weasel donations (or possibly legacies?) out of them. Not sure whether this is an admission that they will end up working in call centres so they might as well get used to it. On the plus side, I know a bit more about selective call blocking software than I used to.
Probably were doing it to raise money for the Vice-Chancellor's salary.
Maybe we should offer free movement to Denmark. Not the rest of the EU, mind. Just Denmark.
I read on here that it's all about to kick off again with Catalonia. Sure we can put them at the "front of the queue" for trade talks?
Catalonia could well seriously kick off, a Spanish friend I spoke to a couple of weeks ago gave similar worries to those of @SouthamObserver below, that the immediate aftermath of the referendum could turn nasty. Lots of unemployed young men with not a lot to do.
At least we settled the issue in Scotland peacefully via the ballot box.
Look at how some Catalan separatists behaved when the Spanish King and various ministers came to Barcelona after the terrorist attack to attend the solidarity march. They were confrontational and incredibly aggressive. Now imagine how they will react when the referendum result is ignored by the entire world, Catalan separatist politicians face huge fines and prison terms and the Spanish state takes powers back from the regional government. There is no doubt they will take to the streets and from there it only needs one bad reaction from a guardia civil to a bottle, a shove, some spitting or anything else for things to get very nasty indeed. Barcelona will be incredibly tense in the weeks following he referendum on 1st October. I don't see how it doesn't end badly.
Maybe we should offer free movement to Denmark. Not the rest of the EU, mind. Just Denmark.
I read on here that it's all about to kick off again with Catalonia. Sure we can put them at the "front of the queue" for trade talks?
Catalonia could well seriously kick off, a Spanish friend I spoke to a couple of weeks ago gave similar worries to those of @SouthamObserver below, that the immediate aftermath of the referendum could turn nasty. Lots of unemployed young men with not a lot to do.
At least we settled the issue in Scotland peacefully via the ballot box.
Look at how some Catalan separatists behaved when the Spanish King and various ministers came to Barcelona after the terrorist attack to attend the solidarity march. They were confrontational and incredibly aggressive. Now imagine how they will react when the referendum result is ignored by the entire world, Catalan separatist politicians face huge fines and prison terms and the Spanish state takes powers back from the regional government. There is no doubt they will take to the streets and from there it only needs one bad reaction from a guardia civil to a bottle, a shove, some spitting or anything else for things to get very nasty indeed. Barcelona will be incredibly tense in the weeks following he referendum on 1st October. I don't see how it doesn't end badly.
I'll be in Valencia for the weekend of the referendum. That's close enough to Catalonia for me! There are strong linguistic and cultural ties between the two and so I expect the Sunday night after the independence landslide is announced could get quite noisy.
Maybe we should offer free movement to Denmark. Not the rest of the EU, mind. Just Denmark.
I read on here that it's all about to kick off again with Catalonia. Sure we can put them at the "front of the queue" for trade talks?
Catalonia could well seriously kick off, a Spanish friend I spoke to a couple of weeks ago gave similar worries to those of @SouthamObserver below, that the immediate aftermath of the referendum could turn nasty. Lots of unemployed young men with not a lot to do.
At least we settled the issue in Scotland peacefully via the ballot box.
Look at how some Catalan separatists behaved when the Spanish King and various ministers came to Barcelona after the terrorist attack to attend the solidarity march. They were confrontational and incredibly aggressive. Now imagine how they will react when the referendum result is ignored by the entire world, Catalan separatist politicians face huge fines and prison terms and the Spanish state takes powers back from the regional government. There is no doubt they will take to the streets and from there it only needs one bad reaction from a guardia civil to a bottle, a shove, some spitting or anything else for things to get very nasty indeed. Barcelona will be incredibly tense in the weeks following he referendum on 1st October. I don't see how it doesn't end badly.
In which part of Spain is OGH?
South West part of Spain.
Well away from any trouble then. Unless they go to war with Portugal!
Maybe we should offer free movement to Denmark. Not the rest of the EU, mind. Just Denmark.
I read on here that it's all about to kick off again with Catalonia. Sure we can put them at the "front of the queue" for trade talks?
Catalonia could well seriously kick off, a Spanish friend I spoke to a couple of weeks ago gave similar worries to those of @SouthamObserver below, that the immediate aftermath of the referendum could turn nasty. Lots of unemployed young men with not a lot to do.
At least we settled the issue in Scotland peacefully via the ballot box.
Look at how some Catalan separatists behaved when the Spanish King and various ministers came to Barcelona after the terrorist attack to attend the solidarity march. They were confrontational and incredibly aggressive. Now imagine how they will react when the referendum result is ignored by the entire world, Catalan separatist politicians face huge fines and prison terms and the Spanish state takes powers back from the regional government. There is no doubt they will take to the streets and from there it only needs one bad reaction from a guardia civil to a bottle, a shove, some spitting or anything else for things to get very nasty indeed. Barcelona will be incredibly tense in the weeks following he referendum on 1st October. I don't see how it doesn't end badly.
In which part of Spain is OGH?
South West part of Spain.
Well away from any trouble then. Unless they go to war with Portugal!
I'll be in Valencia for the weekend of the referendum. That's close enough to Catalonia for me! There are strong linguistic and cultural ties between the two and so I expect the Sunday night after the independence landslide is announced could get quite noisy.
That's very close! An evening or two to spend holed up in the hotel bar.
I can only speak for about five years in my teens, when most summers days, and evenings from May onwards were spent on the land. The gang van would pick me up at our house and I'd join the usual gang weeding or picking whatever was needed.
As this was Boston, it was singling and gapping beet, weeding cabbages, and later on picking tates. Most of fellow workers were female, because the money was poor. Mostly mothers and grandmothers with time on their hands. The few men were generally in between jobs or on holiday. We'd finish early on Thursday afternoons to allow those on benefits to sign on.
A couple of mornings, we were delayed by a police sting operation. They'd block the street (this was the 60s, so there were no cars on the council estates then). and go through the vans to see who was falsely claiming benefits.
BTW, the ganger wasn't rich either. My parents would know him - he always lived nearby, and his kids often used to work too. We always assumed the farmers were doing very well. I suspect that nowadays, they appreciate young workers with a good work ethic who are happy to work for what was low pay even in the 60s.
Interesting that the Tolpuddle Martyrs helped form the unions. Nowadays, they'd be fascist/racists.
We've talked about this here before. If Trump is going to deliver for the rust states that voted for him he needs to get this money back onshore AND have conditionality that requires it to be invested in the US. The latter bit is the tricky bit but small IT companies or other US companies with IP that is going to interest the tech giants with money to burn are looking like serious buys for me.
This initiative is the key to Trump’s whole economic policy - if he’s successful in funding his infrastructure plan he’ll be re-elected, if it doesn’t happen he’s toast.
Clearly the pensioners need to do the fruit and veg picking. They obviously have the necessary experience and we can save money by reducing state pensions to allow for their increased earnings capacity post-Brexit.
I always appreciate your tongue-in-cheek comments.
Back then, there was a conspicuous lack of toilet facilities, and being the fens, there wasn't a lot of suitable trees or bushes. And some of those cabbage rows go a long, long way.
Back in the 1980s, we used to pick our own strawberries at a farm just outside Upminster. Not sure if it's still the case.
Me too. Loved it.
I used to go spud (potato) picking in the October half term holiday.We thought it was good money aged 14.Can not say it was enjoyable though.I remember the cold misty mornings and the sodden fields but not with affection.I imagine people that age are not allowed to do it anymore.
The country is huge and Andalucia is a long way from Catalonia! Despite the headline news daily about the issue no-one down here seems very interested.
I'll be in Valencia for the weekend of the referendum. That's close enough to Catalonia for me! There are strong linguistic and cultural ties between the two and so I expect the Sunday night after the independence landslide is announced could get quite noisy.
Nearly all Tory MPs now agree Theresa May should stay on as Prime Minister. She must get the party through Brexit, they say. A leadership contest now would risk splitting the party over the European issue. One senior Tory who was agitating to depose May back in July has told me that he has now decided it would be best if she stays until 2019.
Clearly the pensioners need to do the fruit and veg picking. They obviously have the necessary experience and we can save money by reducing state pensions to allow for their increased earnings capacity post-Brexit.
Interesting notion, which actually has some currency amongst the Brexit Right. We should be more like Hong Kong, with the elderly forced into full-time menial labour buckled beneath the weight of heavy boxes.
Maybe we should offer free movement to Denmark. Not the rest of the EU, mind. Just Denmark.
I read on here that it's all about to kick off again with Catalonia. Sure we can put them at the "front of the queue" for trade talks?
Catalonia could well seriously kick off, a Spanish friend I spoke to a couple of weeks ago gave similar worries to those of @SouthamObserver below, that the immediate aftermath of the referendum could turn nasty. Lots of unemployed young men with not a lot to do.
At least we settled the issue in Scotland peacefully via the ballot box.
Look at how some Catalan separatists behaved when the Spanish King and various ministers came to Barcelona after the terrorist attack to attend the solidarity march. They were confrontational and incredibly aggressive. Now imagine how they will react when the referendum result is ignored by the entire world, Catalan separatist politicians face huge fines and prison terms and the Spanish state takes powers back from the regional government. There is no doubt they will take to the streets and from there it only needs one bad reaction from a guardia civil to a bottle, a shove, some spitting or anything else for things to get very nasty indeed. Barcelona will be incredibly tense in the weeks following he referendum on 1st October. I don't see how it doesn't end badly.
In which part of Spain is OGH?
South West part of Spain.
Well away from any trouble then. Unless they go to war with Portugal!
Drought is the big problem down there!
As with Catalonia no-one down here in the south talks about it and there are no water restrictions at all.
Nearly all Tory MPs now agree Theresa May should stay on as Prime Minister. She must get the party through Brexit, they say. A leadership contest now would risk splitting the party over the European issue. One senior Tory who was agitating to depose May back in July has told me that he has now decided it would be best if she stays until 2019.
Yes. She either needed be deposed of immediately after the election or backed through to the conclusion of Brexit talks, though such backing has to remain conditional on her not abusing it.
Pensioners would be useful for asbestos stripping. Not much need for precautions either. Nowadays, the main risk would be mesothelioma, but as that takes thirty or forty years to develop, it won't be an issue.
So the principle of indivisible rights is only a binding principal as long as it suits them ?
I don't mind their playing hardball, but it's the nauseating sanctimonious hypocrisy that tends to wind me up...
I think this is generally being misread. The correct way to read this is the way that @Casino_Royale reads the issue of the paper on food geographical indicators. The EU is starting to list its wants. Wherever the EU lists its wants, the UK has an opportunity to consider whether it wishes to accommodate them or not. This is progress.
On this particular one the UK should be very accommodating. Northern Ireland has quite enough problems without being messed up further by extreme Brexit.
I don't disagree with that analysis, but any deal along these lines makes a nonsense of the EU's stance that they can't negotiate on matters of principle.
Off topic .I just received a fake e mail I presume , say it is from the BBC saying I have to re register my BBC account details again to be able to receive I player.I have never registered with. BBC account. I still get I player , is this changing and you will have to register ? I pay my TV licence on line .
Mr. City, they are changing it so you need (online, at least) to enter details to use the iPlayer, but that might still be a fake e-mail. I wouldn't open it. If you need to sign up/enter details, do so at the BBC site.
Nearly all Tory MPs now agree Theresa May should stay on as Prime Minister. She must get the party through Brexit, they say. A leadership contest now would risk splitting the party over the European issue. One senior Tory who was agitating to depose May back in July has told me that he has now decided it would be best if she stays until 2019.
Yes. She either needed be deposed of immediately after the election or backed through to the conclusion of Brexit talks, though such backing has to remain conditional on her not abusing it.
Theresa is in it for the long term. She has no intention of relinquishing power. To cement her authority she needs to start altering the Tory mindset - make her leadership like Brexit in that any criticism of it is tantamount to treason. (This has already started and is looking to be effective.)
You can all fuck right off if post Brexit I have to pick my own fruit and veg.
I did not work hard at school and university to do manual labour.
My Oxford college has had the horrible wheeze of getting current undergraduates to ring alumni for a jolly chat and to try and weasel donations (or possibly legacies?) out of them. Not sure whether this is an admission that they will end up working in call centres so they might as well get used to it. On the plus side, I know a bit more about selective call blocking software than I used to.
Mine too (BNC).
Quite enjoy the annual chat with an undergrad. Each year I say I'll donate when I've paid off my student loan. Getting closer!
Off topic .I just received a fake e mail I presume , say it is from the BBC saying I have to re register my BBC account details again to be able to receive I player.I have never registered with. BBC account. I still get I player , is this changing and you will have to register ? I pay my TV licence on line .
It may be a fake but actually you do have to now register in order to get iplayer. The BBC have had warnings about this on their iplayer stuff for several months giving you the option to register early or wait until they won't let you in and do it then.
Comments
"Merkel, for instance, has often been criticized by Trump and has often criticized him back. Her popularity has increased, and her advisers have half-jokingly credited the “Trump factor” for the sharp rebound in her approval ratings over the past year.
By contrast, U.K. Prime Minister Theresa May has a warmer relationship with Trump. She was the first foreign leader to visit Trump in January after his inauguration, when she congratulated him on his “stunning electoral victory.” But she was criticized for not pushing back on Trump as much as her European colleagues or her rivals from other parties after Trump withdrew the U.S. from the Paris climate accords on June 1 and then instigated a fight with the mayor of London after the terrorist attack in London two days later. Her Conservatives suffered a humiliating result, blowing a 17 percentage point polling lead and losing their majority in Parliament; it’s now not clear how much longer she’ll continue as prime minister. Trump was not May’s only problem, but he certainly didn’t help."
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trump-is-making-europe-liberal-again/
I would what the engagement letter looked like.
https://twitter.com/LouiseMensch/status/905597046580793344
It is another demonstration of the Home Office not being fit for purpose.
https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/905715084982460416
bulletsBrexit!"This is why the idea that you can limit migration based on pay scales (high pay good, low pay bad) is dumb. We do not (yet) put proper value on the work that is done by the poorer parts of our society. We only will when they stop doing it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_German_federal_election,_2017
I did not work hard at school and university to do manual labour.
http://appgmigration.org.uk/press-release-ditch-low-skilled-label-for-sme-public-sector-work-post-brexit-appg-report-recommends/
https://twitter.com/heraldscotland/status/905702179255631872
I'm sure he'll be on the first shuttle to Glasgow to defend his new 'UK' shipbuilding strategy.
https://youtu.be/UhSK9j-TtD0
By the 90s the farmers were mainly relying upon visiting pickers from eastern Europe. They found that they were willing to work harder, more consistently and reliably and were overall cheaper, even if they had to provide basic accommodation for them. I think the farmers would be very reluctant to go back to relying on Dundee casual labour, even if the people of Dundee were so minded. I think a temporary visa for this sort of thing is inevitable.
At least we settled the issue in Scotland peacefully via the ballot box.
Just saying.
Mr. Divvie, thanks for reminding me of Lord Foulkes. When despairing of the front benches, it's good to have a reminder things could be worse.
As this was Boston, it was singling and gapping beet, weeding cabbages, and later on picking tates. Most of fellow workers were female, because the money was poor. Mostly mothers and grandmothers with time on their hands. The few men were generally in between jobs or on holiday. We'd finish early on Thursday afternoons to allow those on benefits to sign on.
A couple of mornings, we were delayed by a police sting operation. They'd block the street (this was the 60s, so there were no cars on the council estates then). and go through the vans to see who was falsely claiming benefits.
BTW, the ganger wasn't rich either. My parents would know him - he always lived nearby, and his kids often used to work too. We always assumed the farmers were doing very well. I suspect that nowadays, they appreciate young workers with a good work ethic who are happy to work for what was low pay even in the 60s.
Interesting that the Tolpuddle Martyrs helped form the unions. Nowadays, they'd be fascist/racists.
I always appreciate your tongue-in-cheek comments.
Back then, there was a conspicuous lack of toilet facilities, and being the fens, there wasn't a lot of suitable trees or bushes. And some of those cabbage rows go a long, long way.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/09/theresa-mays-exit-strategy/
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/hong-kong-shows-what-post-brexit-britain-could-be/
https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/905740107390574593
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/brexit-negotiations/negotiating-documents-article-50-negotiations-united-kingdom_en
Win>win>win.
Alternatively... a bibulous buffoon.
He didn't have a very good election campaign for the Tories, but then again who did...
Quite enjoy the annual chat with an undergrad. Each year I say I'll donate when I've paid off my student loan. Getting closer!