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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » How Kim Jong-un makes Sir Michael Fallon Prime Minister

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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Gosh!. Ozzy is withering about those slippery old hypocrites DD and Rees-Mogg.

    The old David Davis, as a backbencher, voted against the Tory whip more than any other Tory MP, justifying his serial rebellions — and, once, his own self-inflicted by-election — on the grounds that the power of the executive had to be constrained.

    The new David Davis will today be on the frontbench whipping colleagues to give the Government what in practice amounts to carte-blanche powers in the Brexit bill to alter the law with minimal parliamentary oversight.

    Equally, Jacob Rees-Mogg’s religious fanaticism was once matched by a fanatical commitment to the principle of representative parliamentary democracy.

    Not any more. The new Rees-Mogg sees MPs as ciphers, there to rubber-stamp the will of the people – the claim of absolutists down the ages.

    Which part of it do you disagree with ?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,068
    These new powers could make a future Corbyn gov't more powerful than it otherwise might be, no ?
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,039

    @estwebber: Ken Clarke says he accepts "we are going to leave the EU" and it's "idle" to pretend otherwise - question is how we do so‬

    Blimey!

    Throw In The Towel Thursday? :D
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,671

    Scott_P said:

    @SamCoatesTimes: Scoop - dozens of Tory MPs from the Brexit-supporting European Research Group to launch major push to stop government from softening Brexit.

    https://twitter.com/samcoatestimes/status/905762610062163968

    How times change. I remember during the referendum campaign when 'the Norway Option' was continuously bandied about as being the ultimate 'cake and eat it' solution. Now the phrase is spat from the Leavers' lips like poison. Why the shift?
    They have picked up the anti-immigrant ball and are running hard with it.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    GIN1138 said:

    @estwebber: Ken Clarke says he accepts "we are going to leave the EU" and it's "idle" to pretend otherwise - question is how we do so‬

    Blimey!

    Throw In The Towel Thursday? :D
    Should imagine posters of Ken are being ripped down in bedreooms all over remainersville.

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    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    I can see it just over the horizon.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,671
    DavidL said:

    I think we're headed for a repeat of Maastricht.

    Who can forget the hardcore anti EU Tory MPs voting to support the Social Chapter amendment to try and derail the whole bill.

    It's much more dangerous than the Maastricht time, though, with the Article 50 clock ticking, the negotiations incredibly complicated, a minority government, and with the Labour Party taken over by an extreme cabal of nutjobs.
    The hard right of the Tory party once again don't care if we get a Labour MP, they care more about their EU obsession.
    Come on TSE, do you think Parliament should be reviewing 7,000+ pieces of legislation individually? The argument against these clauses is so absurd and hypocritical that there has to be a suspicion that Gina Miller had a hand in it.
    Or Richard Tyndall.
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    Let's hope so. We really need demand in our biggest export market to be powering ahead. It will help us out no end.

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    It does look increasingly as though having made one extremely risky decision in the referendum, voters have compounded the risk by failing to give the government a mandate sufficient to be able to deliver a coherent Brexit.

    Time to look again at the portfolio, methinks.
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    philiph said:

    I can see it just over the horizon.
    It's happening right now.
    https://twitter.com/reutersjamie/status/905776366993494016
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,533
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    TOPPING said:

    George and his newspaper mentioned in the House. He's providing de facto opposition to the mad Brexiters. And great advertising for his paper.

    Yes. Along with Adams - creator of the most perspicacious and beautifully drawn cartoons around at the moment - Osborne's deft analyses are providing a crucial counterweight to the government's creeping authoritarianism and arrogance. Witty and engaging yet insightful and robust, Osborne personifies the finest elements of the British psyche.
    Which is odder out of butthurt-crazed Remainers licking the boots* of the man who co-podiums with Nigel Farage when it comes to making brexit happen, and a soi-disant tory cheering on another tory in his attempt to destroy a tory government because the Prime Minister disrespected him innit, plus serve her right for being lower middle class and female....
    "Which is odder" ?
    Probably your comment.
    That would make it a choice of three, so "oddest", not odder.
    You're right - I ought to have said even odder.
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    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I think we're headed for a repeat of Maastricht.

    Who can forget the hardcore anti EU Tory MPs voting to support the Social Chapter amendment to try and derail the whole bill.

    It's much more dangerous than the Maastricht time, though, with the Article 50 clock ticking, the negotiations incredibly complicated, a minority government, and with the Labour Party taken over by an extreme cabal of nutjobs.
    The hard right of the Tory party once again don't care if we get a Labour MP, they care more about their EU obsession.
    Come on TSE, do you think Parliament should be reviewing 7,000+ pieces of legislation individually? The argument against these clauses is so absurd and hypocritical that there has to be a suspicion that Gina Miller had a hand in it.
    I thought the whole purpose of the referendum was to ensure Parliament was sovereign ?

    Why don't you want Parliament to be sovereign and prefer the power grab by the executive?

    I once had to review 3,000 registers of title in a week, our MPs should be able to review 7,000 pieces of legislation in a few weeks.
    Parliament will be sovereign to the extent that all of this legislation will be up for grabs and open to repeal or reform, something that has not been possible with permission from the EU up to now of course. The scope of clause 9 as set out on here was too wide. The powers should be for limited purposes such as nominating a UK replacement for any EU regulatory body, clarifying who the right of appeal is to, more contentiously to determine who will have the right to review the regulations in the absence of the EU, that sort of thing. A list should not be beyond the wit of the draughtsman to draw up.

    As for checking 3,000 registers, I can only presume that this did not go beyond checking the last registered proprietor.

    Nah, it was to do with a very complex fraud case.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Nigelb said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    TOPPING said:

    George and his newspaper mentioned in the House. He's providing de facto opposition to the mad Brexiters. And great advertising for his paper.

    Yes. Along with Adams - creator of the most perspicacious and beautifully drawn cartoons around at the moment - Osborne's deft analyses are providing a crucial counterweight to the government's creeping authoritarianism and arrogance. Witty and engaging yet insightful and robust, Osborne personifies the finest elements of the British psyche.
    Which is odder out of butthurt-crazed Remainers licking the boots* of the man who co-podiums with Nigel Farage when it comes to making brexit happen, and a soi-disant tory cheering on another tory in his attempt to destroy a tory government because the Prime Minister disrespected him innit, plus serve her right for being lower middle class and female....
    "Which is odder" ?
    Probably your comment.
    That would make it a choice of three, so "oddest", not odder.
    You're right - I ought to have said even odder.
    No, that would still be wrong.

    It does look increasingly as though having made one extremely risky decision in the referendum, voters have compounded the risk by failing to give the government a mandate sufficient to be able to deliver a coherent Brexit.

    Time to look again at the portfolio, methinks.

    Stick it all in VWRL? Saves a lot of angst.
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    NEW THREAD

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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited September 2017
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Stick it all in VWRL? Saves a lot of angst.

    Yes, certainly that's not a bad approach. But first you have to think about how much should be in equities in the first place, and whether you want 50% of your portfolio to be in the US at the moment.
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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    @estwebber: Ken Clarke says he accepts "we are going to leave the EU" and it's "idle" to pretend otherwise - question is how we do so‬

    A fine statesman, a lion of his generation.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited September 2017
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    Yes Peters is again powerbrokers it seems.

    His career is extraordinary and far more successful than, for example, Nigel Farage. To be fair, NZ First is not UKIP - it's what UKIP could have been or become.

    Peters is a social conservative and his views on Asian immigration into NZ are well known. He is a small-State supporter of tax cuts but anti-big business or rather opposed to an economic policy overtly favourable to big business. He has successfully cultivated support among the elderly and he stormed home in Northland in a by-election in 2015.

    He was once a Cabinet Minister in Jim Bolger's Government - as an aside, there's a fascinating interview with Bolger as one of a series of interviews with five former NZ Prime Ministers including Helen Clark (I think it's on stuff.co.nz) but was sacked and has supported both National and Labour Governments as leader of NZ First.
    He is an interesting, albeit unpleasant character, who I remember from my time in NZ. NZ has a unicameral system and has changed to a PR based system from the FPTP system that they had when I was there.

    He has interesting mixed pakeka/maori heritage and fell out with the National party over the issue of Waitangi* rights. This was a big issue when I was there. His main constituency is retired Pakeha** who dislike the modern world and multiculturism in particular. NZ is bicultural but becoming more multicultural.

    *The treaty of Waitangi was the founding document of NZ, giving rights to maori which were not honoured. Maori acivists slogan was "honour the treaty" and had through the courts restored a lot of land to the maori.

    **Pakeha = white New Zealanders, literally translates as settlers.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Looks like they are trying to bore us into submission.

    As I was saying earlier today, the geographical indications stuff in the IP paper looks very innocuous, but has the potential to be a big problem in US/UK trade talks. The US hates the EU GI regime:
    https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R44556.pdf
    Throw in chlorinated chicken, restrictions on importing beef injected with hormones and other food safety issues, and the immensely powerful agricultural lobby in the US has every reason to oppose an FTA with the UK.

    As a consumer, why should I care where "Parma" ham is made provided that it is made to the right specifications?

    It's a basic restraint of trade - I remember when the Drench tried to shut down the producer of my favourite Somerset Brie. (And when they failed retaliated by vetoing "cheddar" as a GI because no one knows it comes from Cheddar Gorge)
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Charles said:

    Looks like they are trying to bore us into submission.

    As I was saying earlier today, the geographical indications stuff in the IP paper looks very innocuous, but has the potential to be a big problem in US/UK trade talks. The US hates the EU GI regime:
    https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R44556.pdf
    Throw in chlorinated chicken, restrictions on importing beef injected with hormones and other food safety issues, and the immensely powerful agricultural lobby in the US has every reason to oppose an FTA with the UK.

    As a consumer, why should I care where "Parma" ham is made provided that it is made to the right specifications?

    It's a basic restraint of trade - I remember when the Drench tried to shut down the producer of my favourite Somerset Brie. (And when they failed retaliated by vetoing "cheddar" as a GI because no one knows it comes from Cheddar Gorge)
    I think that it is rarely made to the same specification, as anyone who has suffereed US processed meat or cheese can testify.

    A friend of mine once described American cusine as "good food, ruined", but I disagree. The ruining now often takes place at the factory farm stage.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    TOPPING said:

    George and his newspaper mentioned in the House. He's providing de facto opposition to the mad Brexiters. And great advertising for his paper.

    Yes. Along with Adams - creator of the most perspicacious and beautifully drawn cartoons around at the moment - Osborne's deft analyses are providing a crucial counterweight to the government's creeping authoritarianism and arrogance. Witty and engaging yet insightful and robust, Osborne personifies the finest elements of the British psyche.
    I'm curious - can you explain what's actually funny about today's cartoon?

    (Although, TBF, the legacy of political cartoons in the UK is satire not humour, so perhaps we are judging by the wrong yardstick. Although Adams doesn't appear clever enough to be good at satire)
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Let's hope so. We really need demand in our biggest export market to be powering ahead. It will help us out no end.

    We could grow hanging on to their coat-tails. I hope they buy our Qashqai's with the 10% duty. However, with sterling's slide since June 2016, even with the duty, a Qashqai would be cheaper that it was then.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,193

    I think we're headed for a repeat of Maastricht.

    Who can forget the hardcore anti EU Tory MPs voting to support the Social Chapter amendment to try and derail the whole bill.

    It's much more dangerous than the Maastricht time, though, with the Article 50 clock ticking, the negotiations incredibly complicated, a minority government, and with the Labour Party taken over by an extreme cabal of nutjobs.
    The hard right of the Tory party once again don't care if we get a Labour PM, they care more about their EU obsession.
    They would view a Corbyn government as a price worth paying for a XXX hardcore Brexit. They probably believe that JC would be such a disaster that they would be welcomed back by a grateful and weeping electorate after a single term.
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    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    George and his newspaper mentioned in the House. He's providing de facto opposition to the mad Brexiters. And great advertising for his paper.

    Yes. Along with Adams - creator of the most perspicacious and beautifully drawn cartoons around at the moment - Osborne's deft analyses are providing a crucial counterweight to the government's creeping authoritarianism and arrogance. Witty and engaging yet insightful and robust, Osborne personifies the finest elements of the British psyche.
    I'm curious - can you explain what's actually funny about today's cartoon?

    (Although, TBF, the legacy of political cartoons in the UK is satire not humour, so perhaps we are judging by the wrong yardstick. Although Adams doesn't appear clever enough to be good at satire)
    Stark_Dawning, on the other hand, is very good at satire. :)
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    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    I think we're headed for a repeat of Maastricht.

    Who can forget the hardcore anti EU Tory MPs voting to support the Social Chapter amendment to try and derail the whole bill.

    It's much more dangerous than the Maastricht time, though, with the Article 50 clock ticking, the negotiations incredibly complicated, a minority government, and with the Labour Party taken over by an extreme cabal of nutjobs.
    The hard right of the Tory party once again don't care if we get a Labour MP, they care more about their EU obsession.
    Come on TSE, do you think Parliament should be reviewing 7,000+ pieces of legislation individually? The argument against these clauses is so absurd and hypocritical that there has to be a suspicion that Gina Miller had a hand in it.
    Or Richard Tyndall.
    Eventually yes all the legislation brought back from Brussels should be reviewed by Parliament. But the whole point of the reform bill is to transcribe EU based legislation into British legislation as smoothly as possible. Once that has been done Governments can start to look at legislation over the years and decide what needs dumping, what needs reforming and what needs keeping. But again as poor old Topping fails to understand, all laws imposed upon the public should at least have the opportunity to be discussed and amended by Parliament if they feel necessary. Its that awful thing called democracy that Topping hates so much.
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