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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » From Core TV – focus on PB, Brexit, the “Democrats”, the Tory

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, a great interview Mike, hope we can see many more of them.

    There's a few quid at 32 available on Betfair for Damian Green as next PM, or 22 for next Con leader.

    One comparison I might make that wasn't made in the piece would be the unpopularity of the SNP for banging on about a second referendum, with the unpopularity of the LDs for also banging on about a second referendum. ;)

    I would have thought the first is a better bet than the second. If the Conservatives don't replace Theresa May before they are removed from power, they are likely to pick a completely fresh face in opposition rather than a safe pair of hands. If I'm right, these two bets effectively represent the same thing.
    I would have thought they would look for someone younger too - if the next election is in 2019/2020 Green will be around 64 and be 69 by the time of a following election. I know Corbyn, Trump, Clinton have rewritten the rules but even so that strikes me as an issue.
    I am not so sure about that. Given the changes in health and life expectancy a person of circa 70 today is probably the equivalent of a 60 year old in the 1940s/1950s. On that basis, Corbyn and David Davis to name but two examples are no older than Macmillan in Jan 1957 or Attlee in July 1945. Both are ,of course, much younger than Churchill in 1951.
    Indeed, Berlusconi could also be elected Italian PM next year on current polls at the age of 80
    In fairness though, he probably can't decline morally or mentally from his current level so that makes him less of a risk.

    Indeed if age quiets his libido he might improve in some significant ways. Or if it doesn't he might turn out to be a latter-day Felix Faure, the only President of the Third Republic to achieve widespread popularity, albeit posthumously.
    At age 80 I would hope even Berlusconi might start to think about a cup of cocoa before bed rather than a night of passion
    But if he didn't the wonderful pun 'Il voulait être César, il ne fut que Pompée' would apply to him with even greater force?
    True enough, ha ha
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157

    Well that was exciting cricket....

    In Cannock we have just had a heavy rain shower but it cleared very quickly.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    edited August 2017
    Finnish terrorist suspect...

    At a later press briefing, they said the suspect had arrived in Finland in 2016 and had "been part of the asylum process".
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Finnish terrorist suspect...

    At a later press briefing, they said the suspect had arrived in Finland in 2016 and had "been part of the asylum process".

    Shocked I tell you
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,520
    edited August 2017

    Sandpit said:

    Mr. Sandpit, yeah, but will benefit massively from the next being in Qatar. "At least it's not 50C."

    They moved it to December so the weather will be okay.
    The big problem they have now (apart from all the building work) is the local situation where they've had something of a falling out with their neighbours. Tour operators have already booked packages using Dubai as a base and flying 45 mins in an out of Qatar for the matches.

    Except there's no direct flights allowed between Qatar and UAE any more. And there's not a cat in Hell's chance there's enough hotel rooms in Qatar for all the fans. Who fancies a six hour flight from London to Qatar, half a day there to watch the match and another six hour flight home again? Maybe they'll book through somewhere like Istanbul instead?
    Will they not do what they did in brazil and run coaches that take hours to get there?
    But where do they run the coaches from? The only land border Qatar has is with Saudi Arabia and that's also closed because of the local problems, and no football fans will want to stay there!. (Although they are planning to open it temporarily for Hajj pilgrims in a few weeks' time)

    Qatar itself is tiny (100kmx40km roughly) and most of it is desert, there's barely enough hotels for the teams, organisers and sponsors. I can only imagine they'll end up with either fleets of A380s getting permission to go in and out of Dubai (where there's plenty of accommodation) or some sort of temporary "Tented City" in the desert - it will be 20 degrees or thereabouts, but it's unlikely there will be any bars there!

    It's setting itself up to be a big mess. That what happens with corruption.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    edited August 2017
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Mr. Sandpit, yeah, but will benefit massively from the next being in Qatar. "At least it's not 50C."

    They moved it to December so the weather will be okay.
    The big problem they have now (apart from all the building work) is the local situation where they've had something of a falling out with their neighbours. Tour operators have already booked packages using Dubai as a base and flying 45 mins in an out of Qatar for the matches.

    Except there's no direct flights allowed between Qatar and UAE any more. And there's not a cat in Hell's chance there's enough hotel rooms in Qatar for all the fans. Who fancies a six hour flight from London to Qatar, half a day there to watch the match and another six hour flight home again? Maybe they'll book through somewhere like Istanbul instead?
    Will they not do what they did in brazil and run coaches that take hours to get there?
    But where do they run the coaches from? The only land border Qatar has is with Saudi Arabia and that's also closed because of the local problems, and no football fans will want to stay there!. (Although they are planning to open it temporarily for Hajj pilgrims in a few weeks' time)

    Qatar itself is tiny (100kmx40km roughly) and most of it is desert, there's barely enough hotels for the teams, organisers and sponsors. I can only imagine they'll end up with either fleets of A380s getting permission to go in and out of Dubai (where there's plenty of accommodation) or some sort of temporary "Tented City" in the desert - it will be 20 degrees or thereabouts, but it's unlikely there will be any bars there!

    It's setting itself up to be a big mess. That what happens with corruption.
    I was thinking say coaches from adu Dhabi via UAE coastal highway . Google says it's 5-6hr drive, which is obviously stupid amount but that is what some fans did in brazil to get from hotels in Rio to the Amazon jungle games.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,885
    edited August 2017
    felix said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting piece on the way savings may be about to change, through 'open banking'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/savings/technology-transform-way-save-cash-forever/

    Sounds awfully like the Islandic savings accounts that were so popular a few years ago...
    I did really well out of one of those and was very lucky to close the accounts withing a few months of it all going sour!
    An ironic twist, I seem to recall, Mr Felix. Didn’t the Cats Protection League lose a squillion or so when the Icelandic banks crashed?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,851
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, a great interview Mike, hope we can see many more of them.

    There's a few quid at 32 available on Betfair for Damian Green as next PM, or 22 for next Con leader.

    One comparison I might make that wasn't made in the piece would be the unpopularity of the SNP for banging on about a second referendum, with the unpopularity of the LDs for also banging on about a second referendum. ;)

    I would have thought the first is a better bet than the second. If the Conservatives don't replace Theresa May before they are removed from power, they are likely to pick a completely fresh face in opposition rather than a safe pair of hands. If I'm right, these two bets effectively represent the same thing.
    I would have thought they would look for someone younger too - if the next election is in 2019/2020 Green will be around 64 and be 69 by the time of a following election. I know Corbyn, Trump, Clinton have rewritten the rules but even so that strikes me as an issue.
    I am not so sure about that. Given the changes in health and life expectancy a person of circa 70 today is probably the equivalent of a 60 year old in the 1940s/1950s. On that basis, Corbyn and David Davis to name but two examples are no older than Macmillan in Jan 1957 or Attlee in July 1945. Both are ,of course, much younger than Churchill in 1951.
    Indeed, Berlusconi could also be elected Italian PM next year on current polls at the age of 80
    In fairness though, he probably can't decline morally or mentally from his current level so that makes him less of a risk.

    Indeed if age quiets his libido he might improve in some significant ways. Or if it doesn't he might turn out to be a latter-day Felix Faure, the only President of the Third Republic to achieve widespread popularity, albeit posthumously.
    At age 80 I would hope even Berlusconi might start to think about a cup of cocoa before bed rather than a night of passion
    But if he didn't the wonderful pun 'Il voulait être César, il ne fut que Pompée' would apply to him with even greater force?
    Surely the man who most fits that pun at the moment is Steve Bannon.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    edited August 2017
    When I say 5hr drive is a stupid amount, for our American cousins that is called a short day trip....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,520
    edited August 2017

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Mr. Sandpit, yeah, but will benefit massively from the next being in Qatar. "At least it's not 50C."

    They moved it to December so the weather will be okay.
    The big problem they have now (apart from all the building work) is the local situation where they've had something of a falling out with their neighbours. Tour operators have already booked packages using Dubai as a base and flying 45 mins in an out of Qatar for the matches.

    Except there's no direct flights allowed between Qatar and UAE any more. And there's not a cat in Hell's chance there's enough hotel rooms in Qatar for all the fans. Who fancies a six hour flight from London to Qatar, half a day there to watch the match and another six hour flight home again? Maybe they'll book through somewhere like Istanbul instead?
    Will they not do what they did in brazil and run coaches that take hours to get there?
    But where do they run the coaches from? The only land border Qatar has is with Saudi Arabia and that's also closed because of the local problems, and no football fans will want to stay there!. (Although they are planning to open it temporarily for Hajj pilgrims in a few weeks' time)

    Qatar itself is tiny (100kmx40km roughly) and most of it is desert, there's barely enough hotels for the teams, organisers and sponsors. I can only imagine they'll end up with either fleets of A380s getting permission to go in and out of Dubai (where there's plenty of accommodation) or some sort of temporary "Tented City" in the desert - it will be 20 degrees or thereabouts, but it's unlikely there will be any bars there!

    It's setting itself up to be a big mess. That what happens with corruption.
    I was thinking say coaches from adu Dhabi via UAE. Google says it's 5-6hr drive, which is obviously stupid amount but that is what some fans did in brazil to get from hotels in Rio to the Amazon jungle games.
    Abu Dhabi to Doha would be about 12 hours in a coach, and would rely on the Saudis escorting the coaches through about 50km of Saudi territory on the way. There's usually a massive queue at the UAE/Saudi border at the best of times, and everyone who's not from the GCC countries normally needs a Saudi visa. The Saudi/Qatar land border is currently closed.

    If the blockade continues to stop flights from UAE, other options would be Muscat, Beirut, Amman and Instanbul. Possibly also Cyprus, where there will be plenty of hotels usually closed for the winter. They've got four years to come up with a plan!!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    edited August 2017
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Mr. Sandpit, yeah, but will benefit massively from the next being in Qatar. "At least it's not 50C."

    They moved it to December so the weather will be okay.
    The big problem they have now (apart from all the building work) is the local situation where they've had something of a falling out with their neighbours. Tour operators have already booked packages using Dubai as a base and flying 45 mins in an out of Qatar for the matches.

    Except there's no direct flights allowed between Qatar and UAE any more. And there's not a cat in Hell's chance there's enough hotel rooms in Qatar for all the fans. Who fancies a six hour flight from London to Qatar, half a day there to watch the match and another six hour flight home again? Maybe they'll book through somewhere like Istanbul instead?
    Will they not do what they did in brazil and run coaches that take hours to get there?
    But where do they run the coaches from? The only land border Qatar has is with Saudi Arabia and that's also closed because of the local problems, and no football fans will want to stay there!. (Although they are planning to open it temporarily for Hajj pilgrims in a few weeks' time)

    Qatar itself is tiny (100kmx40km roughly) and most of it is desert, there's barely enough hotels for the teams, organisers and sponsors. I can only imagine they'll end up with either fleets of A380s getting permission to go in and out of Dubai (where there's plenty of accommodation) or some sort of temporary "Tented City" in the desert - it will be 20 degrees or thereabouts, but it's unlikely there will be any bars there!

    It's setting itself up to be a big mess. That what happens with corruption.
    I was thinking say coaches from adu Dhabi via UAE. Google says it's 5-6hr drive, which is obviously stupid amount but that is what some fans did in brazil to get from hotels in Rio to the Amazon jungle games.
    Abu Dhabi to Doha would be about 12 hours in a coach, and would rely on the Saudis escorting the coaches through about 50km of Saudi territory on the way. There's usually a massive queue at the UAE/Saudi border at the best of times, and everyone who's not from the GCC countries normally needs a Saudi visa. The Saudi/Qatar land border is currently closed.

    If the blockade continues to stop flights from UAE, other options would be Muscat, Beirut, Amman and Instanbul. Possibly also Cyprus, where there will be plenty of hotels usually closed for the winter. They've got four years to come up with a plan!!
    Beruit you say, sounds perfect....guessing having an Israeli stamp in your passport won't do you any favours either.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,885

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, a great interview Mike, hope we can see many more of them.

    There's a few quid at 32 available on Betfair for Damian Green as next PM, or 22 for next Con leader.

    One comparison I might make that wasn't made in the piece would be the unpopularity of the SNP for banging on about a second referendum, with the unpopularity of the LDs for also banging on about a second referendum. ;)

    I would have thought the first is a better bet than the second. If the Conservatives don't replace Theresa May before they are removed from power, they are likely to pick a completely fresh face in opposition rather than a safe pair of hands. If I'm right, these two bets effectively represent the same thing.
    I would have thought they would look for someone younger too - if the next election is in 2019/2020 Green will be around 64 and be 69 by the time of a following election. I know Corbyn, Trump, Clinton have rewritten the rules but even so that strikes me as an issue.
    I am not so sure about that. Given the changes in health and life expectancy a person of circa 70 today is probably the equivalent of a 60 year old in the 1940s/1950s. On that basis, Corbyn and David Davis to name but two examples are no older than Macmillan in Jan 1957 or Attlee in July 1945. Both are ,of course, much younger than Churchill in 1951.
    Indeed, Berlusconi could also be elected Italian PM next year on current polls at the age of 80
    In fairness though, he probably can't decline morally or mentally from his current level so that makes him less of a risk.

    Indeed if age quiets his libido he might improve in some significant ways. Or if it doesn't he might turn out to be a latter-day Felix Faure, the only President of the Third Republic to achieve widespread popularity, albeit posthumously.
    At age 80 I would hope even Berlusconi might start to think about a cup of cocoa before bed rather than a night of passion
    But if he didn't the wonderful pun 'Il voulait être César, il ne fut que Pompée' would apply to him with even greater force?
    Surely the man who most fits that pun at the moment is Steve Bannon.
    Who is his Marguerite Steinheil?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,851

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, a great interview Mike, hope we can see many more of them.

    There's a few quid at 32 available on Betfair for Damian Green as next PM, or 22 for next Con leader.

    One comparison I might make that wasn't made in the piece would be the unpopularity of the SNP for banging on about a second referendum, with the unpopularity of the LDs for also banging on about a second referendum. ;)

    I would have thought the first is a better bet than the second. If the Conservatives don't replace Theresa May before they are removed from power, they are likely to pick a completely fresh face in opposition rather than a safe pair of hands. If I'm right, these two bets effectively represent the same thing.
    I would have thought they would look for someone younger too - if the next election is in 2019/2020 Green will be around 64 and be 69 by the time of a following election. I know Corbyn, Trump, Clinton have rewritten the rules but even so that strikes me as an issue.
    I am not so sure about that. Given the changes in health and life expectancy a person of circa 70 today is probably the equivalent of a 60 year old in the 1940s/1950s. On that basis, Corbyn and David Davis to name but two examples are no older than Macmillan in Jan 1957 or Attlee in July 1945. Both are ,of course, much younger than Churchill in 1951.
    Indeed, Berlusconi could also be elected Italian PM next year on current polls at the age of 80
    In fairness though, he probably can't decline morally or mentally from his current level so that makes him less of a risk.

    Indeed if age quiets his libido he might improve in some significant ways. Or if it doesn't he might turn out to be a latter-day Felix Faure, the only President of the Third Republic to achieve widespread popularity, albeit posthumously.
    At age 80 I would hope even Berlusconi might start to think about a cup of cocoa before bed rather than a night of passion
    But if he didn't the wonderful pun 'Il voulait être César, il ne fut que Pompée' would apply to him with even greater force?
    Surely the man who most fits that pun at the moment is Steve Bannon.
    Who is his Marguerite Steinheil?
    If the Mooch is to be believed, he doesn't need one.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,520
    edited August 2017

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:


    Except there's no direct flights allowed between Qatar and UAE any more. And there's not a cat in Hell's chance there's enough hotel rooms in Qatar for all the fans. Who fancies a six hour flight from London to Qatar, half a day there to watch the match and another six hour flight home again? Maybe they'll book through somewhere like Istanbul instead?
    Will they not do what they did in brazil and run coaches that take hours to get there?
    But where do they run the coaches from? The only land border Qatar has is with Saudi Arabia and that's also closed because of the local problems, and no football fans will want to stay there!. (Although they are planning to open it temporarily for Hajj pilgrims in a few weeks' time)

    Qatar itself is tiny (100kmx40km roughly) and most of it is desert, there's barely enough hotels for the teams, organisers and sponsors. I can only imagine they'll end up with either fleets of A380s getting permission to go in and out of Dubai (where there's plenty of accommodation) or some sort of temporary "Tented City" in the desert - it will be 20 degrees or thereabouts, but it's unlikely there will be any bars there!

    It's setting itself up to be a big mess. That what happens with corruption.
    I was thinking say coaches from adu Dhabi via UAE. Google says it's 5-6hr drive, which is obviously stupid amount but that is what some fans did in brazil to get from hotels in Rio to the Amazon jungle games.
    Abu Dhabi to Doha would be about 12 hours in a coach, and would rely on the Saudis escorting the coaches through about 50km of Saudi territory on the way. There's usually a massive queue at the UAE/Saudi border at the best of times, and everyone who's not from the GCC countries normally needs a Saudi visa. The Saudi/Qatar land border is currently closed.

    If the blockade continues to stop flights from UAE, other options would be Muscat, Beirut, Amman and Instanbul. Possibly also Cyprus, where there will be plenty of hotels usually closed for the winter. They've got four years to come up with a plan!!
    Beruit you say, sounds perfect....
    Apparently it's an "up and coming" party town, believe it or not. People who live in Dubai go there for a long weekend of club's and bars, which are cheaper than UAE. I still can't hear the name without thinking of "Kate Adie, BBC News, Beirut" from the 1980s. :open_mouth:

    Anyone with an Israeli stamp in their passport knows to get a second passport for travelling anywhere else in the region.
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:


    Except there's no direct flights allowed between Qatar and UAE any more. And there's not a cat in Hell's chance there's enough hotel rooms in Qatar for all the fans. Who fancies a six hour flight from London to Qatar, half a day there to watch the match and another six hour flight home again? Maybe they'll book through somewhere like Istanbul instead?
    Will they not do what they did in brazil and run coaches that take hours to get there?
    But where do they run the coaches from? The only land border Qatar has is with Saudi Arabia and that's also closed because of the local problems, and no football fans will want to stay there!. (Although they are planning to open it temporarily for Hajj pilgrims in a few weeks' time)

    Qatar itself is tiny (100kmx40km roughly) and most of it is desert, there's barely enough hotels for the teams, organisers and sponsors. I can only imagine they'll end up with either fleets of A380s getting permission to go in and out of Dubai (where there's plenty of accommodation) or some sort of temporary "Tented City" in the desert - it will be 20 degrees or thereabouts, but it's unlikely there will be any bars there!

    It's setting itself up to be a big mess. That what happens with corruption.
    I was thinking say coaches from adu Dhabi via UAE. Google says it's 5-6hr drive, which is obviously stupid amount but that is what some fans did in brazil to get from hotels in Rio to the Amazon jungle games.
    Abu Dhabi to Doha would be about 12 hours in a coach, and would rely on the Saudis escorting the coaches through about 50km of Saudi territory on the way. There's usually a massive queue at the UAE/Saudi border at the best of times, and everyone who's not from the GCC countries normally needs a Saudi visa. The Saudi/Qatar land border is currently closed.

    If the blockade continues to stop flights from UAE, other options would be Muscat, Beirut, Amman and Instanbul. Possibly also Cyprus, where there will be plenty of hotels usually closed for the winter. They've got four years to come up with a plan!!
    Beruit you say, sounds perfect....
    Apparently it's an "up and coming" party town, believe it or not. People who live in Dubai go there for a long weekend of club's and bars, which are cheaper than UAE. I still can't hear the name without thinking of "Kate Adie, BBC News, Beirut" from the 1980s. :open_mouth:
    I think I will give it a miss thanks.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, a great interview Mike, hope we can see many more of them.

    There's a few quid at 32 available on Betfair for Damian Green as next PM, or 22 for next Con leader.

    One comparison I might make that wasn't made in the piece would be the unpopularity of the SNP for banging on about a second referendum, with the unpopularity of the LDs for also banging on about a second referendum. ;)

    I would have thought the first is a better bet than the second. If the Conservatives don't replace Theresa May before they are removed from power, they are likely to pick a completely fresh face in opposition rather than a safe pair of hands. If I'm right, these two bets effectively represent the same thing.
    I would have thought they would look for someone younger too - if the next election is in 2019/2020 Green will be around 64 and be 69 by the time of a following election. I know Corbyn, Trump, Clinton have rewritten the rules but even so that strikes me as an issue.
    I am not so sure about that. Given the changes in health and life expectancy a person of circa 70 today is probably the equivalent of a 60 year old in the 1940s/1950s. On that basis, Corbyn and David Davis to name but two examples are no older than Macmillan in Jan 1957 or Attlee in July 1945. Both are ,of course, much younger than Churchill in 1951.
    Indeed, Berlusconi could also be elected Italian PM next year on current polls at the age of 80
    In fairness though, he probably can't decline morally or mentally from his current level so that makes him less of a risk.

    Indeed if age quiets his libido he might improve in some significant ways. Or if it doesn't he might turn out to be a latter-day Felix Faure, the only President of the Third Republic to achieve widespread popularity, albeit posthumously.
    At age 80 I would hope even Berlusconi might start to think about a cup of cocoa before bed rather than a night of passion
    But if he didn't the wonderful pun 'Il voulait être César, il ne fut que Pompée' would apply to him with even greater force?
    Surely the man who most fits that pun at the moment is Steve Bannon.
    Who is his Marguerite Steinheil?
    If the Mooch is to be believed, he doesn't need one.
    Sounds more like Mark Anthony.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,885

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, a great interview Mike, hope we can see many more of them.

    There's a few quid at 32 available on Betfair for Damian Green as next PM, or 22 for next Con leader.

    One comparison I might make that wasn't made in the piece would be the unpopularity of the SNP for banging on about a second referendum, with the unpopularity of the LDs for also banging on about a second referendum. ;)

    I would have thought the first is a better bet than the second. If the Conservatives don't replace Theresa May before they are removed from power, they are likely to pick a completely fresh face in opposition rather than a safe pair of hands. If I'm right, these two bets effectively represent the same thing.
    I would have thought they would look for someone younger too - if the next election is in 2019/2020 Green will be around 64 and be 69 by the time of a following election. I know Corbyn, Trump, Clinton have rewritten the rules but even so that strikes me as an issue.
    I am not so sure about that. Given the changes in health and life expectancy a person of circa 70 today is probably the equivalent of a 60 year old in the 1940s/1950s. On that basis, Corbyn and David Davis to name but two examples are no older than Macmillan in Jan 1957 or Attlee in July 1945. Both are ,of course, much younger than Churchill in 1951.
    Indeed, Berlusconi could also be elected Italian PM next year on current polls at the age of 80
    In fairness though, he probably can't decline morally or mentally from his current level so that makes him less of a risk.

    Indeed if age quiets his libido he might improve in some significant ways. Or if it doesn't he might turn out to be a latter-day Felix Faure, the only President of the Third Republic to achieve widespread popularity, albeit posthumously.
    At age 80 I would hope even Berlusconi might start to think about a cup of cocoa before bed rather than a night of passion
    But if he didn't the wonderful pun 'Il voulait être César, il ne fut que Pompée' would apply to him with even greater force?
    Surely the man who most fits that pun at the moment is Steve Bannon.
    Who is his Marguerite Steinheil?
    If the Mooch is to be believed, he doesn't need one.
    Boring. Sad and lonely life!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157
    Hate to be the prophet of doom for Edgbaston but it is again hammering it down in Cannock. This looks like it's setting in too.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,520

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:
    Will they not do what they did in brazil and run coaches that take hours to get there?
    But where do they run the coaches from? The only land border Qatar has is with Saudi Arabia and that's also closed because of the local problems, and no football fans will want to stay there!. (Although they are planning to open it temporarily for Hajj pilgrims in a few weeks' time)

    Qatar itself is tiny (100kmx40km roughly) and most of it is desert, there's barely enough hotels for the teams, organisers and sponsors. I can only imagine they'll end up with either fleets of A380s getting permission to go in and out of Dubai (where there's plenty of accommodation) or some sort of temporary "Tented City" in the desert - it will be 20 degrees or thereabouts, but it's unlikely there will be any bars there!

    It's setting itself up to be a big mess. That what happens with corruption.
    I was thinking say coaches from adu Dhabi via UAE. Google says it's 5-6hr drive, which is obviously stupid amount but that is what some fans did in brazil to get from hotels in Rio to the Amazon jungle games.
    Abu Dhabi to Doha would be about 12 hours in a coach, and would rely on the Saudis escorting the coaches through about 50km of Saudi territory on the way. There's usually a massive queue at the UAE/Saudi border at the best of times, and everyone who's not from the GCC countries normally needs a Saudi visa. The Saudi/Qatar land border is currently closed.

    If the blockade continues to stop flights from UAE, other options would be Muscat, Beirut, Amman and Instanbul. Possibly also Cyprus, where there will be plenty of hotels usually closed for the winter. They've got four years to come up with a plan!!
    Beruit you say, sounds perfect....
    Apparently it's an "up and coming" party town, believe it or not. People who live in Dubai go there for a long weekend of club's and bars, which are cheaper than UAE. I still can't hear the name without thinking of "Kate Adie, BBC News, Beirut" from the 1980s. :open_mouth:
    I think I will give it a miss thanks.
    Yeah, me too. I know a few young British girls who go there for the weekend because the smarmy Lebanese men will buy them drinks all night - and if they get 'lucky' they don't even need an hotel...
  • ydoethur said:

    Hate to be the prophet of doom for Edgbaston but it is again hammering it down in Cannock. This looks like it's setting in too.

    Rubs paws thinking about perhaps it getting to a day 5 and going to watch some test club cricketers.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,520
    ydoethur said:

    Hate to be the prophet of doom for Edgbaston but it is again hammering it down in Cannock. This looks like it's setting in too.

    Was I wrong to lay the draw?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157
    edited August 2017
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hate to be the prophet of doom for Edgbaston but it is again hammering it down in Cannock. This looks like it's setting in too.

    Was I wrong to lay the draw?
    No. If it's showery Windies are screwed as their batsmen are used to short matches and will struggle to adjust to the delays. And the forecast for Monday is OK, which will probably be enough time anyway.

    Edit - having threatened significant rain it has now stopped.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,074
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Incidentally, I will watch the video when I finally get sufficient time (actually got some work done this morning).
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    The fall of the Pound seems to be strengthening the Euro. The 'they need our export market' line was always somewhat wishful thinking but its value seems to be steadily eroding as our national wealth drains away.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/14GK1y1yS5pILIVvngn0l95gvA0yRPWsEWwYvlMUPmV4/edit
  • UKIP's gay donkey raped my horse man has an interesting policy.

    Ukip leadership candidate wants to cut 'unnecessary population' by PAYING British Indians to leave.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ukip-leadership-candidate-wants-cut-11006718

    I always said Brexit would eventually lead to the policy of the (forced) repatriation of darkies being espoused.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    ydoethur said:

    But it still seems more sensible than either the 'hang on to them because they were decent people' or 'tear them down because their views were not ours' that America is polarising into at the moment.

    Dropped by SoCal this weekend as

    Caught up with some OC Republicans - classic old-school GOP.

    They were completely relaxed with tearing down the Lee statue. Actually thought it was a pretty sensible thing to do. Slightly surprised myself that this was how they felt (not because of any far-right connections, but because they do like American history and heritage) but suspect that this is less controversial than many people think.

    I suspect the 60%+ who poll for keeping it are more in the "don't care if you tear it down but might as well keep it" camp rather than strong believers
  • West Indies batsman only just about good enough to play club cricket....
  • New York subway tiles that look like Confederate flags to be altered

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/18/new-york-subway-tiles-look-like-confederate-flags-altered/
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    But it still seems more sensible than either the 'hang on to them because they were decent people' or 'tear them down because their views were not ours' that America is polarising into at the moment.

    Dropped by SoCal this weekend as

    Caught up with some OC Republicans - classic old-school GOP.

    They were completely relaxed with tearing down the Lee statue. Actually thought it was a pretty sensible thing to do. Slightly surprised myself that this was how they felt (not because of any far-right connections, but because they do like American history and heritage) but suspect that this is less controversial than many people think.

    I suspect the 60%+ who poll for keeping it are more in the "don't care if you tear it down but might as well keep it" camp rather than strong believers
    The old-school GOP was the party of the North. I'm guessing none of your friends grew up in the South...
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    justin124 said:

    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    Mike also erroneously suggested that Labour's losses to the SNP in 2015 helped Cameron win a majority , whereas in fact seats changing hands between Opposition parties made no difference to the Tories winning 326! Labour's disastrous losses in Scotland added nothing to the Tory total.

    In exactly the same way as any Labour gains from the SNP would change nothing in Westminster on their own.
    Indeed so - though I think Labour could also win three or four of the Tory seats gained this year in Scotland.
    Not a chance.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    felix said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting piece on the way savings may be about to change, through 'open banking'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/savings/technology-transform-way-save-cash-forever/

    Sounds awfully like the Islandic savings accounts that were so popular a few years ago...
    I did really well out of one of those and was very lucky to close the accounts withing a few months of it all going sour!
    An ironic twist, I seem to recall, Mr Felix. Didn’t the Cats Protection League lose a squillion or so when the Icelandic banks crashed?
    Lol - I didn't know that. the whole process reminded me how interchangeable the words 'gamble' and 'invest' are in real life.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    The fall of the Pound seems to be strengthening the Euro. The 'they need our export market' line was always somewhat wishful thinking but its value seems to be steadily eroding as our national wealth drains away.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/14GK1y1yS5pILIVvngn0l95gvA0yRPWsEWwYvlMUPmV4/edit

    Not quite sure of your point there. Certainly they can import more cheaply from the UK [ goods/services], but it becomes harder for them to sell goods/services to us. One obvious example means it is less attractive to holiday in the eurozone for the Brits unless they can cut their prices by around 15% and negate the fall in the £. :) Over to you Manuel?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    If that were to happen I'm not sure that the likes of Ireland, Spain, etc would be best pleased.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157

    West Indies batsman only just about good enough to play club cricket....

    They have now lost all Hopes...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157
    felix said:

    felix said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting piece on the way savings may be about to change, through 'open banking'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/savings/technology-transform-way-save-cash-forever/

    Sounds awfully like the Islandic savings accounts that were so popular a few years ago...
    I did really well out of one of those and was very lucky to close the accounts withing a few months of it all going sour!
    An ironic twist, I seem to recall, Mr Felix. Didn’t the Cats Protection League lose a squillion or so when the Icelandic banks crashed?
    Lol - I didn't know that. the whole process reminded me how interchangeable the words 'gamble' and 'invest' are in real life.
    And even better:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2008/oct/10/localgovernment-iceland

    Aberystwyth University lost I think £11 million as well - a lot anyway, which the Treasurer called 'piss in a bucket.' He was subsequently (2012) escorted from the building by police in the only act of April Macmahon that commanded widespread support.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,851
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/jun/18/how-ken-clarke-saved-the-euro

    "The UK will introduce the euro. On the day that the British realise that the pound is a regional currency without any international influence, they will join." - Jean-Claude Juncker
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    felix said:

    The fall of the Pound seems to be strengthening the Euro. The 'they need our export market' line was always somewhat wishful thinking but its value seems to be steadily eroding as our national wealth drains away.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/14GK1y1yS5pILIVvngn0l95gvA0yRPWsEWwYvlMUPmV4/edit

    Not quite sure of your point there. Certainly they can import more cheaply from the UK [ goods/services], but it becomes harder for them to sell goods/services to us. One obvious example means it is less attractive to holiday in the eurozone for the Brits unless they can cut their prices by around 15% and negate the fall in the £. :) Over to you Manuel?
    My point was that as the pound falls the total value of the UK market falls with it. So if we are using our spending power as a bargaining chip - which is in essence what the 'the need us to carry on buying their BMWs' story is - the power of that chip goes down.

    The general effects of the pound falling are another story altogether. In theory it helps UK exports and I guess overall it does. But it isn't a straight forward bonus. It's given me headaches as well as opportunities.
  • I thought this would happen. It's still utterly depressing that it has. Nationalism absolutely stinks:
    https://twitter.com/thespainreport/status/898906793996431360
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    Mike also erroneously suggested that Labour's losses to the SNP in 2015 helped Cameron win a majority , whereas in fact seats changing hands between Opposition parties made no difference to the Tories winning 326! Labour's disastrous losses in Scotland added nothing to the Tory total.

    In exactly the same way as any Labour gains from the SNP would change nothing in Westminster on their own.
    Indeed so - though I think Labour could also win three or four of the Tory seats gained this year in Scotland.
    Not a chance.
    I think there is every chance - just as in 1987 when Labour gained several Tory seats from third place in Scotland. This will be particularly true if the issue next time there is getting rid of a Tory PM - rather than preventing a second Independence Referendum.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting piece on the way savings may be about to change, through 'open banking'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/savings/technology-transform-way-save-cash-forever/

    Sounds awfully like the Islandic savings accounts that were so popular a few years ago...
    I did really well out of one of those and was very lucky to close the accounts withing a few months of it all going sour!
    An ironic twist, I seem to recall, Mr Felix. Didn’t the Cats Protection League lose a squillion or so when the Icelandic banks crashed?
    Lol - I didn't know that. the whole process reminded me how interchangeable the words 'gamble' and 'invest' are in real life.
    And even better:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2008/oct/10/localgovernment-iceland

    Aberystwyth University lost I think £11 million as well - a lot anyway, which the Treasurer called 'piss in a bucket.' He was subsequently (2012) escorted from the building by police in the only act of April Macmahon that commanded widespread support.
    I rashly had some money there, and my best hope was that Alistair Darling would say " here's 75% of your capital back, and don't do anything so stupid again", whereas he guaranteed the lot, including interest at silly %, to the end of the fixed term. Always had a soft spot for him ever since.
  • I thought this would happen. It's still utterly depressing that it has. Nationalism absolutely stinks:
    https://twitter.com/thespainreport/status/898906793996431360

    There was a story from yesterday where somebody brought a Spanish flag to one of the gathering with the claim of wanting to show support of the whole of Spain and the mob went nuts on her.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,074
    Mr. Observer, indeed. Not to mention, if they choose to take advantage of that parallel approach then terrorists might deliberately seek to attack Catalonia again.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849
    ydoethur said:

    This pink ball thing really isn't cricket. Broad just been on sky saying you can't shine it.l and it goes soft as a pudding after 20 overs.

    It is interesting to note the only pink ball sold by Dukes on the open market is sold as a training ball, because it is nice and soft. But that is hardly what you want in tests.
    Struggling to understand why the colour makes any difference to the abililty or otherwise to take a shine?! This is all psychological, surely?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    UKIP's gay donkey raped my horse man has an interesting policy.

    Ukip leadership candidate wants to cut 'unnecessary population' by PAYING British Indians to leave.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ukip-leadership-candidate-wants-cut-11006718

    I always said Brexit would eventually lead to the policy of the (forced) repatriation of darkies being espoused.

    I am not saying I agree with him, but if they are being paid, how do you draw the conclusion it is "forced"... and what does it have to do with Brexit?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157

    ydoethur said:

    This pink ball thing really isn't cricket. Broad just been on sky saying you can't shine it.l and it goes soft as a pudding after 20 overs.

    It is interesting to note the only pink ball sold by Dukes on the open market is sold as a training ball, because it is nice and soft. But that is hardly what you want in tests.
    Struggling to understand why the colour makes any difference to the abililty or otherwise to take a shine?! This is all psychological, surely?
    Pink balls don't have lacquer or wax on them.

    Don't ask me why because I don't know why either.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    edited August 2017
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    This pink ball thing really isn't cricket. Broad just been on sky saying you can't shine it.l and it goes soft as a pudding after 20 overs.

    It is interesting to note the only pink ball sold by Dukes on the open market is sold as a training ball, because it is nice and soft. But that is hardly what you want in tests.
    Struggling to understand why the colour makes any difference to the abililty or otherwise to take a shine?! This is all psychological, surely?
    Pink balls don't have lacquer or wax on them.

    Don't ask me why because I don't know why either.
    No grease in the pigment either. Apparently if they try to, the ball goes a weird colour. But it makes a big difference to the resultant ball.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    isam said:

    UKIP's gay donkey raped my horse man has an interesting policy.

    Ukip leadership candidate wants to cut 'unnecessary population' by PAYING British Indians to leave.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ukip-leadership-candidate-wants-cut-11006718

    I always said Brexit would eventually lead to the policy of the (forced) repatriation of darkies being espoused.

    I am not saying I agree with him, but if they are being paid, how do you draw the conclusion it is "forced"... and what does it have to do with Brexit?
    I think Mr Eagles' is making a prediction.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Mr. Observer, indeed. Not to mention, if they choose to take advantage of that parallel approach then terrorists might deliberately seek to attack Catalonia again.

    I know nothing about Spanish politics, but I imagine each one of the 17 autonomous communities has its own police who may also have ignored National Police advice on bollards: in other words is this not about federalism/regionalism, rather than nationalism?
  • £530,000 cash have been found by police during raids at three properties in Merseyside.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-40986373

    With that amount of cash they could probably have bought every house in Huyton.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    This pink ball thing really isn't cricket. Broad just been on sky saying you can't shine it.l and it goes soft as a pudding after 20 overs.

    It is interesting to note the only pink ball sold by Dukes on the open market is sold as a training ball, because it is nice and soft. But that is hardly what you want in tests.
    Struggling to understand why the colour makes any difference to the abililty or otherwise to take a shine?! This is all psychological, surely?
    Pink balls don't have lacquer or wax on them.

    Don't ask me why because I don't know why either.
    No grease in the pigment either. Apparently if they try to, the ball goes a weird colour. But it makes a big difference to the resultant ball.
    Ok thanks I didn't know that. Still seems more than a bit bizarre, when you think of the vast range of pigments and paint finishes available and the level of chemical analysis that goes into making them consistent and reliable.
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    Mr. Observer, indeed. Not to mention, if they choose to take advantage of that parallel approach then terrorists might deliberately seek to attack Catalonia again.

    I know nothing about Spanish politics, but I imagine each one of the 17 autonomous communities has its own police who may also have ignored National Police advice on bollards: in other words is this not about federalism/regionalism, rather than nationalism?
    I think they said on Sky the other day, Barcelona has 4 different police forces.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,074
    Mr. Urquhart, that seems daft.

    Not Brussels daft, but still daft.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    edited August 2017

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    This pink ball thing really isn't cricket. Broad just been on sky saying you can't shine it.l and it goes soft as a pudding after 20 overs.

    It is interesting to note the only pink ball sold by Dukes on the open market is sold as a training ball, because it is nice and soft. But that is hardly what you want in tests.
    Struggling to understand why the colour makes any difference to the abililty or otherwise to take a shine?! This is all psychological, surely?
    Pink balls don't have lacquer or wax on them.

    Don't ask me why because I don't know why either.
    No grease in the pigment either. Apparently if they try to, the ball goes a weird colour. But it makes a big difference to the resultant ball.
    Ok thanks I didn't know that. Still seems more than a bit bizarre, when you think of the vast range of pigments and paint finishes available and the level of chemical analysis that goes into making them consistent and reliable.
    I think cricket ball manufacturing doesn't quite have the R&D resources of a big chemical company. They have made these things the same way for ever.
  • Test match could be finished today. WI utterly utterly crap.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Mr. Observer, indeed. Not to mention, if they choose to take advantage of that parallel approach then terrorists might deliberately seek to attack Catalonia again.

    I know nothing about Spanish politics, but I imagine each one of the 17 autonomous communities has its own police who may also have ignored National Police advice on bollards: in other words is this not about federalism/regionalism, rather than nationalism?
    I think they said on Sky the other day, Barcelona has 4 different police forces.
    Off the top of my head London has the Met, river police, City of London, Parks police, Transport police - all separate forces I believe.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,074
    Mr. Z, hmm, a fair comment. I suppose it depends how things are structured.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,533
    Probably. What a nightmare. Presumably UK expansion will be out, other than online.
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    Mr. Observer, indeed. Not to mention, if they choose to take advantage of that parallel approach then terrorists might deliberately seek to attack Catalonia again.

    I know nothing about Spanish politics, but I imagine each one of the 17 autonomous communities has its own police who may also have ignored National Police advice on bollards: in other words is this not about federalism/regionalism, rather than nationalism?

    Nope - it's only the Catalans that have a police service that is not integrated into the national Spanish police infrastructure. The Mosdos are run entirely independently. Their new chief, recently appointed, is an avowed nationalist who has spoken out on many occassions about the oppressive Spanish state.

  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    felix said:

    The fall of the Pound seems to be strengthening the Euro. The 'they need our export market' line was always somewhat wishful thinking but its value seems to be steadily eroding as our national wealth drains away.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/14GK1y1yS5pILIVvngn0l95gvA0yRPWsEWwYvlMUPmV4/edit

    Not quite sure of your point there. Certainly they can import more cheaply from the UK [ goods/services], but it becomes harder for them to sell goods/services to us. One obvious example means it is less attractive to holiday in the eurozone for the Brits unless they can cut their prices by around 15% and negate the fall in the £. :) Over to you Manuel?
    My point was that as the pound falls the total value of the UK market falls with it. So if we are using our spending power as a bargaining chip - which is in essence what the 'the need us to carry on buying their BMWs' story is - the power of that chip goes down.

    The general effects of the pound falling are another story altogether. In theory it helps UK exports and I guess overall it does. But it isn't a straight forward bonus. It's given me headaches as well as opportunities.
    You're really saying that currencies tend to rise and fall against each other and that brings both benefits and costs with one of the 'costs' to Europe being that it becomes harder for them to 'sell BMWs' to us. to me that emphasises the downside to the EU of not doing a sensible deal on Brexit. Living in Spain on a British pension has certainly cost me in the pocket since the result but sometimes that is the price for being on the losing side and I have to suck it up. Fortunately my Spanish investments so far have covered my losses.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Mr. Observer, indeed. Not to mention, if they choose to take advantage of that parallel approach then terrorists might deliberately seek to attack Catalonia again.

    I know nothing about Spanish politics, but I imagine each one of the 17 autonomous communities has its own police who may also have ignored National Police advice on bollards: in other words is this not about federalism/regionalism, rather than nationalism?
    I think they said on Sky the other day, Barcelona has 4 different police forces.
    Off the top of my head London has the Met, river police, City of London, Parks police, Transport police - all separate forces I believe.
    The MoD Plod will have jurisdiction too,
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    This pink ball thing really isn't cricket. Broad just been on sky saying you can't shine it.l and it goes soft as a pudding after 20 overs.

    It is interesting to note the only pink ball sold by Dukes on the open market is sold as a training ball, because it is nice and soft. But that is hardly what you want in tests.
    Struggling to understand why the colour makes any difference to the abililty or otherwise to take a shine?! This is all psychological, surely?
    Pink balls don't have lacquer or wax on them.

    Don't ask me why because I don't know why either.
    No grease in the pigment either. Apparently if they try to, the ball goes a weird colour. But it makes a big difference to the resultant ball.
    Ok thanks I didn't know that. Still seems more than a bit bizarre, when you think of the vast range of pigments and paint finishes available and the level of chemical analysis that goes into making them consistent and reliable.
    I think cricket ball manufacturing doesn't quite have the R&D resources of a big chemical company. They have made these things the same way for ever.
    Yes, fair point.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    I thought this would happen. It's still utterly depressing that it has. Nationalism absolutely stinks:
    https://twitter.com/thespainreport/status/898906793996431360

    It is - and on the security barrier issue it seems from the article that the regional authority has been naive/remiss.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Mr. Observer, indeed. Not to mention, if they choose to take advantage of that parallel approach then terrorists might deliberately seek to attack Catalonia again.

    I know nothing about Spanish politics, but I imagine each one of the 17 autonomous communities has its own police who may also have ignored National Police advice on bollards: in other words is this not about federalism/regionalism, rather than nationalism?
    I think generally most of the ACs would follow central advice on this sort of matter. Here in Andalucia there is no separate police force as such.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    UKIP's gay donkey raped my horse man has an interesting policy.

    Ukip leadership candidate wants to cut 'unnecessary population' by PAYING British Indians to leave.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ukip-leadership-candidate-wants-cut-11006718

    I always said Brexit would eventually lead to the policy of the (forced) repatriation of darkies being espoused.

    The idea was around pre-brexit, Roger Helmer was advocating it in 2014.

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/05/18/ukip-mep-roger-helmer-cannot-understand-why-people-are-opposed-to-voluntary-repatriation/
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849
    Does anyone think England might be under some subtle pressure from the ECB not to force the the follow-on, for financial reasons? They could easily lose two day's takings here.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,533
    More conformation that Labour is lead by Left Brexiteers:

    https://twitter.com/GuardianHeather/status/898643000737353728


    When will the majority of Labour-Remain voters wake up?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    justin124 said:

    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    Mike also erroneously suggested that Labour's losses to the SNP in 2015 helped Cameron win a majority , whereas in fact seats changing hands between Opposition parties made no difference to the Tories winning 326! Labour's disastrous losses in Scotland added nothing to the Tory total.

    In exactly the same way as any Labour gains from the SNP would change nothing in Westminster on their own.
    Indeed so - though I think Labour could also win three or four of the Tory seats gained this year in Scotland.
    Not a chance.
    I think there is every chance - just as in 1987 when Labour gained several Tory seats from third place in Scotland. This will be particularly true if the issue next time there is getting rid of a Tory PM - rather than preventing a second Independence Referendum.
    Just a few weeks ago SCons leapfrogged Labour to take seats like D&G. there is equally the chance of the impressive Ruth Davidson led Tories continuing to make progess with further gains. Scotland did not vote like the RoUK last time. There is no certainty at all about what will happen at the next GE anywhere in the UK. The most recent polling for what it's worth is inconclusive and I am unaware of any Scotland only poll.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,766
    edited August 2017
    felix said:

    I thought this would happen. It's still utterly depressing that it has. Nationalism absolutely stinks:
    https://twitter.com/thespainreport/status/898906793996431360

    It is - and on the security barrier issue it seems from the article that the regional authority has been naive/remiss.

    Yep - at the most senior level the Mossos - like most Catalan institutions - are heavily politicised and totally controlled by the nationalists. Their first instincts will be to not cooperate with Spanish authorities and to do the opposite of what the Spanish do. As tensions mount in the run-up to the unofficial independence referendum, this would have been even more the case. I imagine, though, that in terms of raw politics these attacks are not good news for the separatists.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157

    More conformation that Labour is lead by Left Brexiteers:

    https://twitter.com/GuardianHeather/status/898643000737353728


    When will the majority of Labour-Remain voters wake up?

    I'm worried about this stunning news that the revolution will be kicked off when he seizes the Guardian. I mean, I know it's not what it was but surely he'd be better off grabbing a paper that's likely to oppose him.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157
    edited August 2017

    Does anyone think England might be under some subtle pressure from the ECB not to force the the follow-on, for financial reasons? They could easily lose two day's takings here.

    Years ago, when Gloucestershire played Worcestershire at Cheltenham, Glos had their foot on Worcester's neck - all out 180 behind, conditions ideal for bowling, cloudy and muggy, the great Jon Lewis hooping it round corners, Worcestershire likely to be skittled quickly if the follow-on was enforced.

    However, desperate for cash, as Cheltenham is the one great money-spinner Gloucestershire have, the management ordered Gloucestershire to bat again to guarantee a fourth day's play.

    Within an hour they were 20-5. The following day the sun came out and a promising young batsman named Moeen Ali combined with Daryl Mitchell to take Worcestershire to a truly superb victory.

    I don't think the Windies would manage that, but as Boycott rightly says, a side that isn't forced to follow on is a side that feels they've been let off. And with the weather tomorrow looking iffy, Root would be a fool not to enforce.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,533
    "It is possible that Breitbart, the other agenda-driven news sources, the keyboard warriors, the conspiracy theorists who think the moon landings were a hoax, the guys with the swastika flags and the haters will win this media war – after all, they helped get Trump elected by creating and fuelling a huge national movement of economic paranoia."

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/steve-bannon-left-white-house-breitbart-white-nationalists-trump-campaign-the-wall-a7902201.html
  • AllanAllan Posts: 262

    felix said:

    The fall of the Pound seems to be strengthening the Euro. The 'they need our export market' line was always somewhat wishful thinking but its value seems to be steadily eroding as our national wealth drains away.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/14GK1y1yS5pILIVvngn0l95gvA0yRPWsEWwYvlMUPmV4/edit

    Not quite sure of your point there. Certainly they can import more cheaply from the UK [ goods/services], but it becomes harder for them to sell goods/services to us. One obvious example means it is less attractive to holiday in the eurozone for the Brits unless they can cut their prices by around 15% and negate the fall in the £. :) Over to you Manuel?
    My point was that as the pound falls the total value of the UK market falls with it. So if we are using our spending power as a bargaining chip - which is in essence what the 'the need us to carry on buying their BMWs' story is - the power of that chip goes down.

    The general effects of the pound falling are another story altogether. In theory it helps UK exports and I guess overall it does. But it isn't a straight forward bonus. It's given me headaches as well as opportunities.
    Fewer German cars and more from Hyundai, Toyota, Honda and Nissan etc?
  • I thought this would happen. It's still utterly depressing that it has. Nationalism absolutely stinks:
    https://twitter.com/thespainreport/status/898906793996431360

    There was a story from yesterday where somebody brought a Spanish flag to one of the gathering with the claim of wanting to show support of the whole of Spain and the mob went nuts on her.

    Yep, like most nationalists the Catalan ones are visciously intolerant.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,533
    ydoethur said:

    More conformation that Labour is lead by Left Brexiteers:

    https://twitter.com/GuardianHeather/status/898643000737353728


    When will the majority of Labour-Remain voters wake up?

    I'm worried about this stunning news that the revolution will be kicked off when he seizes the Guardian. I mean, I know it's not what it was but surely he'd be better off grabbing a paper that's likely to oppose him.
    :lol:

    Like the Newstatesman?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,718
    Allan said:

    felix said:

    The fall of the Pound seems to be strengthening the Euro. The 'they need our export market' line was always somewhat wishful thinking but its value seems to be steadily eroding as our national wealth drains away.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/14GK1y1yS5pILIVvngn0l95gvA0yRPWsEWwYvlMUPmV4/edit

    Not quite sure of your point there. Certainly they can import more cheaply from the UK [ goods/services], but it becomes harder for them to sell goods/services to us. One obvious example means it is less attractive to holiday in the eurozone for the Brits unless they can cut their prices by around 15% and negate the fall in the £. :) Over to you Manuel?
    My point was that as the pound falls the total value of the UK market falls with it. So if we are using our spending power as a bargaining chip - which is in essence what the 'the need us to carry on buying their BMWs' story is - the power of that chip goes down.

    The general effects of the pound falling are another story altogether. In theory it helps UK exports and I guess overall it does. But it isn't a straight forward bonus. It's given me headaches as well as opportunities.
    Fewer German cars and more from Hyundai, Toyota, Honda and Nissan etc?
    Lovely, cannot wait
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,718
    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    Mike also erroneously suggested that Labour's losses to the SNP in 2015 helped Cameron win a majority , whereas in fact seats changing hands between Opposition parties made no difference to the Tories winning 326! Labour's disastrous losses in Scotland added nothing to the Tory total.

    In exactly the same way as any Labour gains from the SNP would change nothing in Westminster on their own.
    Indeed so - though I think Labour could also win three or four of the Tory seats gained this year in Scotland.
    Not a chance.
    I think there is every chance - just as in 1987 when Labour gained several Tory seats from third place in Scotland. This will be particularly true if the issue next time there is getting rid of a Tory PM - rather than preventing a second Independence Referendum.
    Just a few weeks ago SCons leapfrogged Labour to take seats like D&G. there is equally the chance of the impressive Ruth Davidson led Tories continuing to make progess with further gains. Scotland did not vote like the RoUK last time. There is no certainty at all about what will happen at the next GE anywhere in the UK. The most recent polling for what it's worth is inconclusive and I am unaware of any Scotland only poll.
    LOL
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849
    ydoethur said:

    Does anyone think England might be under some subtle pressure from the ECB not to force the the follow-on, for financial reasons? They could easily lose two day's takings here.

    Years ago, when Gloucestershire played Worcestershire at Cheltenham, Glos had their foot on Worcester's neck - all out 180 behind, conditions ideal for bowling, cloudy and muggy, the great Jon Lewis hooping it round corners, Worcestershire likely to be skittled quickly if the follow-on was enforced.

    However, desperate for cash, as Cheltenham is the one great money-spinner Gloucestershire have, the management ordered Gloucestershire to bat again to guarantee a fourth day's play.

    Within an hour they were 20-5. The following day the sun came out and a promising young batsman named Moeen Ali combined with Daryl Mitchell to take Worcestershire to a truly superb victory.

    I don't think the Windies would manage that, but as Boycott rightly says, a side that isn't forced to follow on is a side that feels they've been let off. And with the weather tomorrow looking iffy, Root would be a fool not to enforce.
    Head says Boycs is right; heart says, if I were Root, I'd batter the Windies around the ground for the rest of the day and 1st session tomorrow, just for fun!

    I had the feeling that forcing the follow-on has become less popular recently in test cricket and indeed that seems to be the case. There's an interesting article on Cricinfo on the topic...

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/sri-lanka-v-india-2017/content/story/1112995.html
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    RoyalBlue said:

    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    But it still seems more sensible than either the 'hang on to them because they were decent people' or 'tear them down because their views were not ours' that America is polarising into at the moment.

    Dropped by SoCal this weekend as

    Caught up with some OC Republicans - classic old-school GOP.

    They were completely relaxed with tearing down the Lee statue. Actually thought it was a pretty sensible thing to do. Slightly surprised myself that this was how they felt (not because of any far-right connections, but because they do like American history and heritage) but suspect that this is less controversial than many people think.

    I suspect the 60%+ who poll for keeping it are more in the "don't care if you tear it down but might as well keep it" camp rather than strong believers
    The old-school GOP was the party of the North. I'm guessing none of your friends grew up in the South...
    Don't forget that, since the war*, SoCal has send two Republican presidents to Washington...


    * Given the context, I should clarify I mean WW2...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157

    ydoethur said:

    Does anyone think England might be under some subtle pressure from the ECB not to force the the follow-on, for financial reasons? They could easily lose two day's takings here.

    Years ago, when Gloucestershire played Worcestershire at Cheltenham, Glos had their foot on Worcester's neck - all out 180 behind, conditions ideal for bowling, cloudy and muggy, the great Jon Lewis hooping it round corners, Worcestershire likely to be skittled quickly if the follow-on was enforced.

    However, desperate for cash, as Cheltenham is the one great money-spinner Gloucestershire have, the management ordered Gloucestershire to bat again to guarantee a fourth day's play.

    Within an hour they were 20-5. The following day the sun came out and a promising young batsman named Moeen Ali combined with Daryl Mitchell to take Worcestershire to a truly superb victory.

    I don't think the Windies would manage that, but as Boycott rightly says, a side that isn't forced to follow on is a side that feels they've been let off. And with the weather tomorrow looking iffy, Root would be a fool not to enforce.
    Head says Boycs is right; heart says, if I were Root, I'd batter the Windies around the ground for the rest of the day and 1st session tomorrow, just for fun!

    I had the feeling that forcing the follow-on has become less popular recently in test cricket and indeed that seems to be the case. There's an interesting article on Cricinfo on the topic...

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/sri-lanka-v-india-2017/content/story/1112995.html
    Back to back tests mean captains are wary of over-working bowlers. However, there are four seamers and a spinner to use, I really can't see that as a problem here.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    felix said:

    I thought this would happen. It's still utterly depressing that it has. Nationalism absolutely stinks:
    https://twitter.com/thespainreport/status/898906793996431360

    It is - and on the security barrier issue it seems from the article that the regional authority has been naive/remiss.

    Yep - at the most senior level the Mossos - like most Catalan institutions - are heavily politicised and totally controlled by the nationalists. Their first instincts will be to not cooperate with Spanish authorities and to do the opposite of what the Spanish do. As tensions mount in the run-up to the unofficial independence referendum, this would have been even more the case. I imagine, though, that in terms of raw politics these attacks are not good news for the separatists.

    I certainly hope not - though to be fair the October vote was already looking like a tactical error from the CatalaNats!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157
    Charles said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    But it still seems more sensible than either the 'hang on to them because they were decent people' or 'tear them down because their views were not ours' that America is polarising into at the moment.

    Dropped by SoCal this weekend as

    Caught up with some OC Republicans - classic old-school GOP.

    They were completely relaxed with tearing down the Lee statue. Actually thought it was a pretty sensible thing to do. Slightly surprised myself that this was how they felt (not because of any far-right connections, but because they do like American history and heritage) but suspect that this is less controversial than many people think.

    I suspect the 60%+ who poll for keeping it are more in the "don't care if you tear it down but might as well keep it" camp rather than strong believers
    The old-school GOP was the party of the North. I'm guessing none of your friends grew up in the South...
    Don't forget that, since the war*, SoCal has send two Republican presidents to Washington...


    * Given the context, I should clarify I mean WW2...
    Shows you should always read carefully and beware of abbreviations. I was getting very confused wondering about which two presidents came from South Carolina, or even more bewilderingly which ones out of Eisenhower, Nixon, the Bushes and Trump it didn't vote for (the answer is of course it voted for all of them except Eisenhower).

    Then I realised you meant Southern California...and Reagan and Nixon fell sweetly into place!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    Charles said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    But it still seems more sensible than either the 'hang on to them because they were decent people' or 'tear them down because their views were not ours' that America is polarising into at the moment.

    Dropped by SoCal this weekend as

    Caught up with some OC Republicans - classic old-school GOP.

    They were completely relaxed with tearing down the Lee statue. Actually thought it was a pretty sensible thing to do. Slightly surprised myself that this was how they felt (not because of any far-right connections, but because they do like American history and heritage) but suspect that this is less controversial than many people think.

    I suspect the 60%+ who poll for keeping it are more in the "don't care if you tear it down but might as well keep it" camp rather than strong believers
    The old-school GOP was the party of the North. I'm guessing none of your friends grew up in the South...
    Don't forget that, since the war*, SoCal has send two Republican presidents to Washington...


    * Given the context, I should clarify I mean WW2...
    Indeed, 2016 was the first time Orange County has not voted for the Republican candidate for President since 1936. In 1988 Dukakis won West Virginia and Wisconsin, Bush Snr won California. In 2016 Trump won West Virginia and Wisconsin and Hillary won California
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682

    UKIP's gay donkey raped my horse man has an interesting policy.

    Ukip leadership candidate wants to cut 'unnecessary population' by PAYING British Indians to leave.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ukip-leadership-candidate-wants-cut-11006718

    I always said Brexit would eventually lead to the policy of the (forced) repatriation of darkies being espoused.

    British Indians often have a higher income than the average Briton, stupid policy
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,726
    edited August 2017
    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    But it still seems more sensible than either the 'hang on to them because they were decent people' or 'tear them down because their views were not ours' that America is polarising into at the moment.

    Dropped by SoCal this weekend as

    Caught up with some OC Republicans - classic old-school GOP.

    They were completely relaxed with tearing down the Lee statue. Actually thought it was a pretty sensible thing to do. Slightly surprised myself that this was how they felt (not because of any far-right connections, but because they do like American history and heritage) but suspect that this is less controversial than many people think.

    I suspect the 60%+ who poll for keeping it are more in the "don't care if you tear it down but might as well keep it" camp rather than strong believers
    The old-school GOP was the party of the North. I'm guessing none of your friends grew up in the South...
    Don't forget that, since the war*, SoCal has send two Republican presidents to Washington...


    * Given the context, I should clarify I mean WW2...
    Indeed, 2016 was the first time Orange County has not voted for the Republican candidate for President since 1936. In 1988 Dukakis won West Virginia and Wisconsin, Bush Snr won California. In 2016 Trump won West Virginia and Wisconsin and Hillary won California
    I expect that California is now totally out of reach for the Republicans
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    But it still seems more sensible than either the 'hang on to them because they were decent people' or 'tear them down because their views were not ours' that America is polarising into at the moment.

    Dropped by SoCal this weekend as

    Caught up with some OC Republicans - classic old-school GOP.

    They were completely relaxed with tearing down the Lee statue. Actually thought it was a pretty sensible thing to do. Slightly surprised myself that this was how they felt (not because of any far-right connections, but because they do like American history and heritage) but suspect that this is less controversial than many people think.

    I suspect the 60%+ who poll for keeping it are more in the "don't care if you tear it down but might as well keep it" camp rather than strong believers
    The old-school GOP was the party of the North. I'm guessing none of your friends grew up in the South...
    Don't forget that, since the war*, SoCal has send two Republican presidents to Washington...


    * Given the context, I should clarify I mean WW2...
    Indeed, 2016 was the first time Orange County has not voted for the Republican candidate for President since 1936. In 1988 Dukakis won West Virginia and Wisconsin, Bush Snr won California. In 2016 Trump won West Virginia and Wisconsin and Hillary won California
    I expect that California is now totally out of reach for the Republicans
    And with the introduction of the jungle primary, the majority of the population in SoCal who support the GOP don't even get to vote for their party in Senatorial elections
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849
    HYUFD said:

    UKIP's gay donkey raped my horse man has an interesting policy.

    Ukip leadership candidate wants to cut 'unnecessary population' by PAYING British Indians to leave.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ukip-leadership-candidate-wants-cut-11006718

    I always said Brexit would eventually lead to the policy of the (forced) repatriation of darkies being espoused.

    British Indians often have a higher income than the average Briton, stupid policy
    Stupid indeed, on on so many levels. But should we have expected any better from the "gay donkey raped my horse man"??
  • ydoethur said:

    Does anyone think England might be under some subtle pressure from the ECB not to force the the follow-on, for financial reasons? They could easily lose two day's takings here.

    Years ago, when Gloucestershire played Worcestershire at Cheltenham, Glos had their foot on Worcester's neck - all out 180 behind, conditions ideal for bowling, cloudy and muggy, the great Jon Lewis hooping it round corners, Worcestershire likely to be skittled quickly if the follow-on was enforced.

    However, desperate for cash, as Cheltenham is the one great money-spinner Gloucestershire have, the management ordered Gloucestershire to bat again to guarantee a fourth day's play.

    Within an hour they were 20-5. The following day the sun came out and a promising young batsman named Moeen Ali combined with Daryl Mitchell to take Worcestershire to a truly superb victory.

    I don't think the Windies would manage that, but as Boycott rightly says, a side that isn't forced to follow on is a side that feels they've been let off. And with the weather tomorrow looking iffy, Root would be a fool not to enforce.
    In Boycott's era teams would score at under 3 an over and a team following on would generally have scored less than half that of the first innings.

    Making the opponents follow on was thus both generally necessary at that time to force a result and less risky.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849
    malcolmg said:

    Allan said:

    felix said:

    The fall of the Pound seems to be strengthening the Euro. The 'they need our export market' line was always somewhat wishful thinking but its value seems to be steadily eroding as our national wealth drains away.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/14GK1y1yS5pILIVvngn0l95gvA0yRPWsEWwYvlMUPmV4/edit

    Not quite sure of your point there. Certainly they can import more cheaply from the UK [ goods/services], but it becomes harder for them to sell goods/services to us. One obvious example means it is less attractive to holiday in the eurozone for the Brits unless they can cut their prices by around 15% and negate the fall in the £. :) Over to you Manuel?
    My point was that as the pound falls the total value of the UK market falls with it. So if we are using our spending power as a bargaining chip - which is in essence what the 'the need us to carry on buying their BMWs' story is - the power of that chip goes down.

    The general effects of the pound falling are another story altogether. In theory it helps UK exports and I guess overall it does. But it isn't a straight forward bonus. It's given me headaches as well as opportunities.
    Fewer German cars and more from Hyundai, Toyota, Honda and Nissan etc?
    Lovely, cannot wait
    Er... you don't need to wait. You can buy Hyundai, Toyota, Honda and Nissan etc already (?)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    But it still seems more sensible than either the 'hang on to them because they were decent people' or 'tear them down because their views were not ours' that America is polarising into at the moment.

    Dropped by SoCal this weekend as

    Caught up with some OC Republicans - classic old-school GOP.

    They were completely relaxed with tearing down the Lee statue. Actually thought it was a pretty sensible thing to do. Slightly surprised myself that this was how they felt (not because of any far-right connections, but because they do like American history and heritage) but suspect that this is less controversial than many people think.

    I suspect the 60%+ who poll for keeping it are more in the "don't care if you tear it down but might as well keep it" camp rather than strong believers
    The old-school GOP was the party of the North. I'm guessing none of your friends grew up in the South...
    Don't forget that, since the war*, SoCal has send two Republican presidents to Washington...


    * Given the context, I should clarify I mean WW2...
    Indeed, 2016 was the first time Orange County has not voted for the Republican candidate for President since 1936. In 1988 Dukakis won West Virginia and Wisconsin, Bush Snr won California. In 2016 Trump won West Virginia and Wisconsin and Hillary won California
    I expect that California is now totally out of reach for the Republicans
    Probably but I expect Trump to do better there in 2020 if his opponent is a populist leftist like Sanders or Warren and slightly worse in the MidWest
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682

    HYUFD said:

    UKIP's gay donkey raped my horse man has an interesting policy.

    Ukip leadership candidate wants to cut 'unnecessary population' by PAYING British Indians to leave.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ukip-leadership-candidate-wants-cut-11006718

    I always said Brexit would eventually lead to the policy of the (forced) repatriation of darkies being espoused.

    British Indians often have a higher income than the average Briton, stupid policy
    Stupid indeed, on on so many levels. But should we have expected any better from the "gay donkey raped my horse man"??
    Probably not
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Charles said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    But it still seems more sensible than either the 'hang on to them because they were decent people' or 'tear them down because their views were not ours' that America is polarising into at the moment.

    Dropped by SoCal this weekend as

    Caught up with some OC Republicans - classic old-school GOP.

    They were completely relaxed with tearing down the Lee statue. Actually thought it was a pretty sensible thing to do. Slightly surprised myself that this was how they felt (not because of any far-right connections, but because they do like American history and heritage) but suspect that this is less controversial than many people think.

    I suspect the 60%+ who poll for keeping it are more in the "don't care if you tear it down but might as well keep it" camp rather than strong believers
    The old-school GOP was the party of the North. I'm guessing none of your friends grew up in the South...
    Don't forget that, since the war*, SoCal has send two Republican presidents to Washington...


    * Given the context, I should clarify I mean WW2...
    Indeed, 2016 was the first time Orange County has not voted for the Republican candidate for President since 1936. In 1988 Dukakis won West Virginia and Wisconsin, Bush Snr won California. In 2016 Trump won West Virginia and Wisconsin and Hillary won California
    I expect that California is now totally out of reach for the Republicans
    And with the introduction of the jungle primary, the majority of the population in SoCal who support the GOP don't even get to vote for their party in Senatorial elections
    Having an electoral system which only allows the voter to pick from 2 candidates of the same party is far more outrageous than any of the tricks the Republicans play.
This discussion has been closed.