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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » From Core TV – focus on PB, Brexit, the “Democrats”, the Tory

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  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,359

    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    Mr. Meeks, tearing down statues when a regime falls is a different kettle of fish to waiting a century and a half and then deciding the statues are horrid.

    Interesting comment on some on both sides of the argument (in the US) agreeing what the statues represent, though.

    Are any of the staues in question 150 years old (insofar as any commemorative Confederate statues were raised immediately after the war)? I gather most of them seem to have been put up in the 1920s.
    Another spike in the 60s.
    And some more recent, notably this one...

    https://patch.com/tennessee/green-hills/oak-hill-mayor-asks-governor-block-infamous-nathan-bedford-forrest-statue
    That's got to be a contender for worst statue ever on so many levels!
    There's a certain Jeff Koons thing going on.

    Which means that it is indeed gash.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307

    Y0kel said:

    Russia, Finland, Spain.

    It is just as likely this cluster is only halfway through, not over. Spain & Finland are likely to have had some kind of cell control. Russia unclear. That control extends to a number of UK & EU based cells. Only a handful that went through the hands of the Libyan branch of IS have turned up in attacks or been put in jail. Then there is the individuals that went through the Syrian based training schools to co-ordinate and lead attacks.

    For anyone still left with some doubts and somehow excusing of these guys or trying to 'understand' their motivation, its been picked up via big ears that planting explosives on Christmas trees might be worth trying later this year. Thats what you are dealing with.

    No more understanding of motivation is needed, its understood, its now how to combat it.

    See the article I linked to earlier (paywall sadly). The dream of a caliphate is part of the problem.
    That view is outdated and needs to stop dominating thinking. Many of those involved in Europe know rightly that the Caliphate idea is balls. They saw it apparently built in Iraq & Syria and they've watched it being gradually rolled over. What is prominent is no 'positive' objective, like building a Caliphate, its destruction via hate and a sense of grievance that we would do well to absolutely set our selective faces against even giving a hint of legitimacy to. IS is the a thugs playground, some of the thugs have proper brains some don't. Its well known that lot of the European travellers into Syria were considered the lowest form of fodder. The terror has no purpose, its not as if they claim to want foreign interference out, its a thin veneer for violence in a religious war against non-believers. For many involved, its just the cover excuse they want.


  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,056
    Strangely enough, some of the German installations built on the Channel Islands during their Occupation have become tourist attractions.
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    Mr. Meeks, tearing down statues when a regime falls is a different kettle of fish to waiting a century and a half and then deciding the statues are horrid.

    Interesting comment on some on both sides of the argument (in the US) agreeing what the statues represent, though.

    Are any of the staues in question 150 years old (insofar as any commemorative Confederate statues were raised immediately after the war)? I gather most of them seem to have been put up in the 1920s.
    Another spike in the 60s.
    And some more recent, notably this one...

    https://patch.com/tennessee/green-hills/oak-hill-mayor-asks-governor-block-infamous-nathan-bedford-forrest-statue
    That's got to be a contender for worst statue ever on so many levels!
    And 25ft high, so probably much more costly than it appears.
    It doesn't exactly have a majestic setting.

    http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/50487800.jpg
    The horse looks like it is being raped by a gay donkey.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849
    Watching that interview, I'm a bit worried about Big Ben - it seems to have stopped at 11:20. Would hate to be relying on it for the Brexit Bong.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,074
    Mr. Stodge, there's some controversy over building an Iron Ring type sculpture in Wales (referring to Edward I's castles). The castles themselves, though, must be rather good for tourism.

    Can't remember much detail but I saw a few when I was a child (Conwy, Beaumaris etc).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    edited August 2017
    Y0kel said:

    Y0kel said:

    Russia, Finland, Spain.

    It is just as likely this cluster is only halfway through, not over. Spain & Finland are likely to have had some kind of cell control. Russia unclear. That control extends to a number of UK & EU based cells. Only a handful that went through the hands of the Libyan branch of IS have turned up in attacks or been put in jail. Then there is the individuals that went through the Syrian based training schools to co-ordinate and lead attacks.

    For anyone still left with some doubts and somehow excusing of these guys or trying to 'understand' their motivation, its been picked up via big ears that planting explosives on Christmas trees might be worth trying later this year. Thats what you are dealing with.

    No more understanding of motivation is needed, its understood, its now how to combat it.

    See the article I linked to earlier (paywall sadly). The dream of a caliphate is part of the problem.
    That view is outdated and needs to stop dominating thinking. Many of those involved in Europe know rightly that the Caliphate idea is balls. They saw it apparently built in Iraq & Syria and they've watched it being gradually rolled over. What is prominent is no 'positive' objective, like building a Caliphate, its destruction via hate and a sense of grievance that we would do well to absolutely set our selective faces against even giving a hint of legitimacy to. IS is the a thugs playground, some of the thugs have proper brains some don't. Its well known that lot of the European travellers into Syria were considered the lowest form of fodder. The terror has no purpose, its not as if they claim to want foreign interference out, its a thin veneer for violence in a religious war against non-believers. For many involved, its just the cover excuse they want.


    Sam Harris had an interview with a guy who has interviewed a number of the western Isis recruiters and it was fascinating to hear the reasoning why they have managed to attract so many young western men who were previously petty criminals / not good Muslims and also middle class educated ones who haven't been in trouble.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,726
    Perhaps we should commemorate Brexit with an equestrian statue of Michael Gove.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,074
    Mr. Urquhart, the young men aspect is just because they've been violent throughout all history.

    I'd guess the other aspect is redemption (perversely), trying to get on a god's good side.

    By graduating from vandalism and theft to murder.

    That's the problem of religion. When you're convinced a god is on your side, you can justify anything, because your inspiration is divine and arguments against it just man-made. And even if the acts themselves are terrible (and seem to be justified by the lunatic due to the predicted positive consequences) then they can 'reason' that the dead will be rewarded if they were virtuous by their god.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,359
    Sean_F said:

    Perhaps we should commemorate Brexit with an equestrian statue of Michael Gove.

    Would one of him being raped by a donkey count as equestrian? I'd subscribe.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Sean_F said:

    Perhaps we should commemorate Brexit with an equestrian statue of Michael Gove.

    Are you suggesting Gove is a horse's ass?
  • Woman raped by Roman Polanski asks for 'mercy' to end case
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40984592

    ....But he made some good movies or some such bollocks.
  • Mr. Urquhart, the young men aspect is just because they've been violent throughout all history.

    I'd guess the other aspect is redemption (perversely), trying to get on a god's good side.

    By graduating from vandalism and theft to murder.

    That's the problem of religion. When you're convinced a god is on your side, you can justify anything, because your inspiration is divine and arguments against it just man-made. And even if the acts themselves are terrible (and seem to be justified by the lunatic due to the predicted positive consequences) then they can 'reason' that the dead will be rewarded if they were virtuous by their god.

    Apparently one of the favourite tales the recruiters like to tell is about if you die as a sinner your ribs will be slowly crushed and the naughtier you have been, the bigger the bill that had to be paid ie the longer and more painful..But if you die a maryter you get your debt wiped off.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,851
    Sean_F said:

    Perhaps we should commemorate Brexit with an equestrian statue of Michael Gove.

    Gove giving it his famous 'thumbs up'.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,074
    Mr. Urquhart, not entirely dissimilar to the approach taken to encourage Christians to take up the cross and head off on crusade. Although that was centuries ago, in a more barbarous age.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,229
    stodge said:

    Strangely enough, some of the German installations built on the Channel Islands during their Occupation have become tourist attractions.

    They were deliberately left as a permanent reminder of the occupation (and they're hellishly difficult to remove!)
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,056

    Mr. Stodge, there's some controversy over building an Iron Ring type sculpture in Wales (referring to Edward I's castles). The castles themselves, though, must be rather good for tourism.

    Can't remember much detail but I saw a few when I was a child (Conwy, Beaumaris etc).

    Yes, Beaumaris is wonderful but I found Caernarfon a little disappointing - two walls and that's it. Not quite sure why the sculpture idea is needed but I don't deny there are a very few people in Wales who would love to be "freed" from 700 years of English "oppression". For the majority, I suspect, it's more nuanced - yes, there is a distinct Welsh identity, history and culture and that has to be recognised and respected but that's not the same as desiring an independent Wales.
  • TonyETonyE Posts: 938

    Sandpit said:

    He's not "Trying to bypass Scots and Welsh" at all. International treaties are matters reserved to the British government.
    And if an international treaty impacts on a devolved matter?
    What happens when an EU Directive or Regulation, signed into UK law by the SI route in Westminster, impinges on a devolved matter?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,074
    Mr. Stodge, just think the money could be better spent on reconstruction/promotion of castles myself.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    edited August 2017

    Mr. Urquhart, not entirely dissimilar to the approach taken to encourage Christians to take up the cross and head off on crusade. Although that was centuries ago, in a more barbarous age.

    This is a central part of majiid nawaz thoughts...Ie most religions have violence and pretty horrid tales as part of their religious texts, but they have moedernized / adapted so even the most strict eg Christians are taught not to take them literally (unlike x00s of years ago)

    His claims are that reformers within the islamic world need to be found and supported to enable a similar process to occur within the islamic faith.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,056

    stodge said:

    Strangely enough, some of the German installations built on the Channel Islands during their Occupation have become tourist attractions.

    They were deliberately left as a permanent reminder of the occupation (and they're hellishly difficult to remove!)
    They serve a valuable purpose as such. They "could" have been blown up or bricked up and forgotten about in many instances but they weren't.

    Symbols serve to remind people not only of what happened but why it happened. Part of identity is understanding and appreciating one own's history - the preservation of parts of Auschwitz and Dachau is or are immensely symbolic of what happened there but also why it happened and why it was allowed to happen.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,718

    Via Twitter, so not confirmed yet properly, but there are reports of a knife attack in Russia. No word yet on whether the perpetrator advocates low levels of taxation, so we await Leanne Woods' wisdom on the matter.

    I like the way the Russians say the perpetrator was liquidated.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,851
    TonyE said:

    Sandpit said:

    He's not "Trying to bypass Scots and Welsh" at all. International treaties are matters reserved to the British government.
    And if an international treaty impacts on a devolved matter?
    What happens when an EU Directive or Regulation, signed into UK law by the SI route in Westminster, impinges on a devolved matter?
    This is why devolution within a unitary state is inferior to a federal constitution. The UK isn't fit for purpose.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,520
    edited August 2017

    Mr. Urquhart, not entirely dissimilar to the approach taken to encourage Christians to take up the cross and head off on crusade. Although that was centuries ago, in a more barbarous age.

    This is a central part of majiid nawaz thoughts...Ie most religions have violence and pretty horrid tales as part of their religious texts, but they have moedernized / adapted so even the most strict eg Christians are taught not to take them literally (unlike x00s of years ago)

    His claims are that reformers within the islamic world need to be found and supported to enable a similar process to occur within the islamic faith.
    There was a very good interview of Nawaz by Bill Maher in the US a couple of weeks ago, where he talks about this. Can't immediately find it online sadly.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=MlAw7qYLk5w
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,074
    Mr. Glenn, indeed, Labour's cack-handed, short-sighted, narrow-minded and intellectually subnormal approach to devolution was not a stellar moment in constitutional history.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158

    TonyE said:

    Sandpit said:

    He's not "Trying to bypass Scots and Welsh" at all. International treaties are matters reserved to the British government.
    And if an international treaty impacts on a devolved matter?
    What happens when an EU Directive or Regulation, signed into UK law by the SI route in Westminster, impinges on a devolved matter?
    This is why devolution within a unitary state is inferior to a federal constitution. The UK isn't fit for purpose.
    Just another in the long line of British declinists.


    We've proved all the others wrong.
  • Sandpit said:

    Mr. Urquhart, not entirely dissimilar to the approach taken to encourage Christians to take up the cross and head off on crusade. Although that was centuries ago, in a more barbarous age.

    This is a central part of majiid nawaz thoughts...Ie most religions have violence and pretty horrid tales as part of their religious texts, but they have moedernized / adapted so even the most strict eg Christians are taught not to take them literally (unlike x00s of years ago)

    His claims are that reformers within the islamic world need to be found and supported to enable a similar process to occur within the islamic faith.
    There was a very good interview of Nawaz by Bill Maher in the US a couple of weeks ago, where he talks about this. Can't immediately find it online sadly.
    The best interview I have seen him do is with Dave Rubin. He was given 2-3hrs to explain his journey and his considered views.
  • TonyETonyE Posts: 938

    TonyE said:

    Sandpit said:

    He's not "Trying to bypass Scots and Welsh" at all. International treaties are matters reserved to the British government.
    And if an international treaty impacts on a devolved matter?
    What happens when an EU Directive or Regulation, signed into UK law by the SI route in Westminster, impinges on a devolved matter?
    This is why devolution within a unitary state is inferior to a federal constitution. The UK isn't fit for purpose.
    So you accept then that when international matters/EU matters are reserved to Westminster, this at present is effective on devolved matters. Unless Scotland becomes an independent nation there is no prospect of this changing - what would then occur is an impossible friction between the need to adapt to a changing world trade environment and the internal devolution settlement.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,520

    Sandpit said:

    Mr. Urquhart, not entirely dissimilar to the approach taken to encourage Christians to take up the cross and head off on crusade. Although that was centuries ago, in a more barbarous age.

    This is a central part of majiid nawaz thoughts...Ie most religions have violence and pretty horrid tales as part of their religious texts, but they have moedernized / adapted so even the most strict eg Christians are taught not to take them literally (unlike x00s of years ago)

    His claims are that reformers within the islamic world need to be found and supported to enable a similar process to occur within the islamic faith.
    There was a very good interview of Nawaz by Bill Maher in the US a couple of weeks ago, where he talks about this. Can't immediately find it online sadly.
    The best interview I have seen him do is with Dave Rubin. He was given 2-3hrs to explain his journey and his considered views.
    This one? *adds to reading list*
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=lpit8jc3NeI
  • TonyETonyE Posts: 938
    Sandpit said:

    Mr. Urquhart, not entirely dissimilar to the approach taken to encourage Christians to take up the cross and head off on crusade. Although that was centuries ago, in a more barbarous age.

    This is a central part of majiid nawaz thoughts...Ie most religions have violence and pretty horrid tales as part of their religious texts, but they have moedernized / adapted so even the most strict eg Christians are taught not to take them literally (unlike x00s of years ago)

    His claims are that reformers within the islamic world need to be found and supported to enable a similar process to occur within the islamic faith.
    There was a very good interview of Nawaz by Bill Maher in the US a couple of weeks ago, where he talks about this. Can't immediately find it online sadly.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=MlAw7qYLk5w
    The alternative position is that modernising religions is just proof that the idea of the 'word of God' is totally ridiculous. It is actually the word of man, a command and control structure that simply engages in the art of adaptation to the times so as not to lose its control over people.

    It's almost proof that religion is anti logic - we believe in the word of God, so long as it doesn't offend man.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,851
    TonyE said:

    TonyE said:

    Sandpit said:

    He's not "Trying to bypass Scots and Welsh" at all. International treaties are matters reserved to the British government.
    And if an international treaty impacts on a devolved matter?
    What happens when an EU Directive or Regulation, signed into UK law by the SI route in Westminster, impinges on a devolved matter?
    This is why devolution within a unitary state is inferior to a federal constitution. The UK isn't fit for purpose.
    So you accept then that when international matters/EU matters are reserved to Westminster, this at present is effective on devolved matters. Unless Scotland becomes an independent nation there is no prospect of this changing - what would then occur is an impossible friction between the need to adapt to a changing world trade environment and the internal devolution settlement.
    There's an obvious counterexample to the idea that this creates an impossible friction called the EU, which somehow manages to be effective in world trade negotiations despite having 28 sovereign members. Or perhaps your point is that Scotland is uniquely incapable of dealing in realities?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,718
    TonyE said:

    TonyE said:

    Sandpit said:

    He's not "Trying to bypass Scots and Welsh" at all. International treaties are matters reserved to the British government.
    And if an international treaty impacts on a devolved matter?
    What happens when an EU Directive or Regulation, signed into UK law by the SI route in Westminster, impinges on a devolved matter?
    This is why devolution within a unitary state is inferior to a federal constitution. The UK isn't fit for purpose.
    So you accept then that when international matters/EU matters are reserved to Westminster, this at present is effective on devolved matters. Unless Scotland becomes an independent nation there is no prospect of this changing - what would then occur is an impossible friction between the need to adapt to a changing world trade environment and the internal devolution settlement.
    Easier to just say it will lead to independence as Westminster crush devolution and smash democracy in Scotland under their jackboot
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,971

    In shock news, the Finland terror attack was a terror attack:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40985528

    Not so much a surprise, Mr.D - but authorities, particularly where terrorist crimes are legally distinct from other offences, have to be cautious in these matters if they wish to bring perpetrators to court.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,074
    Mr. E, my understanding is that the Quran is taken to literally be the word of God, which is why reform is so difficult.

    The Bible was put together by bishops in the 2nd or 3rd century (Saint Nicholas punched a bishop called Papius at such a meeting, after the latter said Jesus wasn't the son of God). There are many more gospels than those included in the Bible, such as the Gospel of Saint Thomas, in which Jesus kills a dragon (if memory serves).

    Mr. B, indeed. But telling to see the differing responses to the attacks in Charlottesville and the white van driven into Muslims leaving a mosque in London compared to vehicle attacks done by those shouting "Allahu Akbar" (a detail the ITV News at Ten chose to omit).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    Looks like Nick Timothy is now truly a Red Tory, JeremyCorbynforPM has tweeted ones of his articles
    https://mobile.twitter.com/JeremyCorbyn4PM/status/898847009570009088
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,074
    Mr. HYUFD, it'd certainly explain Timothy's approach to the Conservative election campaign.
  • TonyETonyE Posts: 938
    malcolmg said:

    TonyE said:

    TonyE said:

    Sandpit said:

    He's not "Trying to bypass Scots and Welsh" at all. International treaties are matters reserved to the British government.
    And if an international treaty impacts on a devolved matter?
    What happens when an EU Directive or Regulation, signed into UK law by the SI route in Westminster, impinges on a devolved matter?
    This is why devolution within a unitary state is inferior to a federal constitution. The UK isn't fit for purpose.
    So you accept then that when international matters/EU matters are reserved to Westminster, this at present is effective on devolved matters. Unless Scotland becomes an independent nation there is no prospect of this changing - what would then occur is an impossible friction between the need to adapt to a changing world trade environment and the internal devolution settlement.
    Easier to just say it will lead to independence as Westminster crush devolution and smash democracy in Scotland under their jackboot
    It might, but I wouldn't describe it in those terms. The point is that the devolution settlement was designed to look like something it wasn't - and even the powers that have been devolved aren't all used. SNP politicians using this issue as a wedge are missing the point, they would have to undertake many of the same compromises in international trade if they were outside the EU, as if they would in it. It makes no difference, it's a matter of how the markets you want to operate in are structured. Globalization is not great for democracy.
  • TonyETonyE Posts: 938

    TonyE said:

    TonyE said:

    Sandpit said:

    He's not "Trying to bypass Scots and Welsh" at all. International treaties are matters reserved to the British government.
    And if an international treaty impacts on a devolved matter?
    What happens when an EU Directive or Regulation, signed into UK law by the SI route in Westminster, impinges on a devolved matter?
    This is why devolution within a unitary state is inferior to a federal constitution. The UK isn't fit for purpose.
    So you accept then that when international matters/EU matters are reserved to Westminster, this at present is effective on devolved matters. Unless Scotland becomes an independent nation there is no prospect of this changing - what would then occur is an impossible friction between the need to adapt to a changing world trade environment and the internal devolution settlement.
    There's an obvious counterexample to the idea that this creates an impossible friction called the EU, which somehow manages to be effective in world trade negotiations despite having 28 sovereign members. Or perhaps your point is that Scotland is uniquely incapable of dealing in realities?
    No, only that Scotland makes compromises to Brussels readily that it resents making to Westminster.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,533
    HYUFD said:

    Looks like Nick Timothy is now truly a Red Tory, JeremyCorbynforPM has tweeted ones of his articles
    https://mobile.twitter.com/JeremyCorbyn4PM/status/898847009570009088

    He's right about the polytechnics though. Turning them into universities was a mistake.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Sandpit said:

    Mr. Urquhart, not entirely dissimilar to the approach taken to encourage Christians to take up the cross and head off on crusade. Although that was centuries ago, in a more barbarous age.

    This is a central part of majiid nawaz thoughts...Ie most religions have violence and pretty horrid tales as part of their religious texts, but they have moedernized / adapted so even the most strict eg Christians are taught not to take them literally (unlike x00s of years ago)

    His claims are that reformers within the islamic world need to be found and supported to enable a similar process to occur within the islamic faith.
    There was a very good interview of Nawaz by Bill Maher in the US a couple of weeks ago, where he talks about this. Can't immediately find it online sadly.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=MlAw7qYLk5w
    Just watched the video in full. He should have a much higher profile than he does!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,885

    Mr. Stodge, there's some controversy over building an Iron Ring type sculpture in Wales (referring to Edward I's castles). The castles themselves, though, must be rather good for tourism.

    Can't remember much detail but I saw a few when I was a child (Conwy, Beaumaris etc).

    Edward I stated that he built the cast;les as an ‘Iron Ring” to subdue the Welsh. It’s by no means an exact analogy, but how would you expect a “Sherman’s Highway’ from Atalanta to the sea to go down in Georgia?
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,367
    On Thursday evening, one of the BBC anchors was interviewing their Spanish correspondent and asked him why Spain had been targeted.

    He stated that it was the Moroccan community who were to blame.

    The BBC woman was horrified and tried to slow him down, reminding him that no one knew anything for sure. I thought at the time, with amusement, that he had just blown his chances of ever working for the British BBC. Yet it turns out the man was a genius. Acute and accurate.

    OK, I know he could have been wrong, but it was interesting to see speculation. and unlike Leanne Woods, he was proved right.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/robdothutton/status/898810429652090881

    They want the Bell to toll at midnight, which is of course an hour late...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,885
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/robdothutton/status/898810429652090881

    They want the Bell to toll at midnight, which is of course an hour late...

    Never ask for whom the bell tolls........
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    Mr. Divvie, that still makes them 90-100 years old, though.

    It also means that they are agit prop for segregation rather than commemorations of the war itself. So the argument for removing them from prominent public positions is a bit deeper than it appears at first sight - though as a Brit I'd admit to not fully being aware of the cultural sensitivities.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    As Britain has never endured foreign occupation in recent times, it may seem strange to us but then neither has the US. In WW1, shops with German names were attacked in many towns and cities across Britain - the name was forcibly removed and even our Royal Family had to de-Germanise their identity.

    True, and there is no longer anyone alive who remembers when it used to be called Brown Saxe-Coburg Gotha soup.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,520
    edited August 2017
    RoyalBlue said:

    Sandpit said:

    Mr. Urquhart, not entirely dissimilar to the approach taken to encourage Christians to take up the cross and head off on crusade. Although that was centuries ago, in a more barbarous age.

    This is a central part of majiid nawaz thoughts...Ie most religions have violence and pretty horrid tales as part of their religious texts, but they have moedernized / adapted so even the most strict eg Christians are taught not to take them literally (unlike x00s of years ago)

    His claims are that reformers within the islamic world need to be found and supported to enable a similar process to occur within the islamic faith.
    There was a very good interview of Nawaz by Bill Maher in the US a couple of weeks ago, where he talks about this. Can't immediately find it online sadly.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=MlAw7qYLk5w
    Just watched the video in full. He should have a much higher profile than he does!
    Indeed so, but the British broadcast media are much more likely to give an interview to the MCB or some unelected 'Community Leader' who are part of the problem and not part of the solution. They preferred to talk about 'The Backlash' after one of their own had just blown up a couple of dozen people or a bunch of their own had just been sent down for organised and systematic child abuse.

    Also, Bill Maher deserves much more of a profile in the UK. He has his own politics but isn't afraid to call out those on either side who he thinks are wrong. His closing monologue on this week's show was about how the extremists on both sides conspire to screw things up - very apt after the events of the past few days. He's very very good at using humour to get his point across.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=6RARDVcljeU
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    Woman raped by Roman Polanski asks for 'mercy' to end case
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40984592

    ....But he made some good movies or some such bollocks.

    Surprised that issue is even still ongoing. She was the victim, and granted she has said she has forgiven him and wants to move on, but for crying out loud, he did it and hasn't faced the punishment he was supposed to, society shouldn't let that go.

    Mr. Stodge, there's some controversy over building an Iron Ring type sculpture in Wales (referring to Edward I's castles). The castles themselves, though, must be rather good for tourism.

    Can't remember much detail but I saw a few when I was a child (Conwy, Beaumaris etc).

    Edward I stated that he built the cast;les as an ‘Iron Ring” to subdue the Welsh. It’s by no means an exact analogy, but how would you expect a “Sherman’s Highway’ from Atalanta to the sea to go down in Georgia?
    It was 700 years ago, I think time makes a big difference.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    malcolmg said:

    Via Twitter, so not confirmed yet properly, but there are reports of a knife attack in Russia. No word yet on whether the perpetrator advocates low levels of taxation, so we await Leanne Woods' wisdom on the matter.

    I like the way the Russians say the perpetrator was liquidated.
    It seems he was wearing a fake suicide vest.

    Sounds vaguely familiar.....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,533
    Interesting piece on the way savings may be about to change, through 'open banking'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/savings/technology-transform-way-save-cash-forever/
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,885
    kle4 said:

    Woman raped by Roman Polanski asks for 'mercy' to end case
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40984592

    ....But he made some good movies or some such bollocks.

    Surprised that issue is even still ongoing. She was the victim, and granted she has said she has forgiven him and wants to move on, but for crying out loud, he did it and hasn't faced the punishment he was supposed to, society shouldn't let that go.

    Mr. Stodge, there's some controversy over building an Iron Ring type sculpture in Wales (referring to Edward I's castles). The castles themselves, though, must be rather good for tourism.

    Can't remember much detail but I saw a few when I was a child (Conwy, Beaumaris etc).

    Edward I stated that he built the cast;les as an ‘Iron Ring” to subdue the Welsh. It’s by no means an exact analogy, but how would you expect a “Sherman’s Highway’ from Atalanta to the sea to go down in Georgia?
    It was 700 years ago, I think time makes a big difference.
    Not that big. Stlll tactless!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    edited August 2017
    Sandpit said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Sandpit said:

    Mr. Urquhart, not entirely dissimilar to the approach taken to encourage Christians to take up the cross and head off on crusade. Although that was centuries ago, in a more barbarous age.

    This is a central part of majiid nawaz thoughts...Ie most religions have violence and pretty horrid tales as part of their religious texts, but they have moedernized / adapted so even the most strict eg Christians are taught not to take them literally (unlike x00s of years ago)

    His claims are that reformers within the islamic world need to be found and supported to enable a similar process to occur within the islamic faith.
    There was a very good interview of Nawaz by Bill Maher in the US a couple of weeks ago, where he talks about this. Can't immediately find it online sadly.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=MlAw7qYLk5w
    Just watched the video in full. He should have a much higher profile than he does!
    Indeed so, but the British broadcast media are much more likely to give an interview to the MCB or some unelected 'Community Leader' who are part of the problem and not part of the solution. They preferred to talk about 'The Backlash' after one of their own had just blown up a couple of dozen people or a bunch of their own had just been sent down for organised and systematic child abuse.

    Also, Bill Maher deserves much more of a profile in the UK. He has his own politics but isn't afraid to call out those on either side who he thinks are wrong. His closing monologue on this week's show was about how the extremists on both sides conspire to screw things up - very apt after the events of the past few days. He's very very good at using humour to get his point across.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=6RARDVcljeU
    If majiid stood for parliament in my neck of the woods he would get my vote in an instance.

    The classic Maher moment that showed the "regressive left" was when he has Sam Harris on (a liberal neuroscience who has written a book with nawaz) and Ben affleck spent 10 mins screaming racist bigot at him and Mahe

    The like of maher, Harris and Rubin are among a small number of liberals in the us who are willing to listen, think and criticise their own "side" as well as the other.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,520

    Interesting piece on the way savings may be about to change, through 'open banking'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/savings/technology-transform-way-save-cash-forever/

    Sounds awfully like the Islandic savings accounts that were so popular a few years ago...
  • Floater said:

    malcolmg said:

    Via Twitter, so not confirmed yet properly, but there are reports of a knife attack in Russia. No word yet on whether the perpetrator advocates low levels of taxation, so we await Leanne Woods' wisdom on the matter.

    I like the way the Russians say the perpetrator was liquidated.
    It seems he was wearing a fake suicide vest.

    Sounds vaguely familiar.....
    One of those right wing low tax small state extremists?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,074
    King Cole, I've heard some suggest the phrase is much more modern. Not sure either way myself.

    Mr. CD13, ha, reminds me of Sky News and the migrant crisis. The anchor was speaking with a correspondent and one of them pointed out that if they were in a safe place and still going they weren't refugees any more but shopping for a country of their choice.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,885
    Floater said:

    malcolmg said:

    Via Twitter, so not confirmed yet properly, but there are reports of a knife attack in Russia. No word yet on whether the perpetrator advocates low levels of taxation, so we await Leanne Woods' wisdom on the matter.

    I like the way the Russians say the perpetrator was liquidated.
    It seems he was wearing a fake suicide vest.

    Sounds vaguely familiar.....
    I’m fascinated by the idea of a fake suicide vest when the wearer is going into a situation where he (or she) may well be shot dead. Is ISIS top brass having an economy drive?
    And, if one is killed in those circumstances, is one still a martyr and entitled to the comforts due to such? Or are there more ‘advatanges' for someone who kills themselves, as opposed to someone who ‘only’ courts death?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,074
    King Cole, surely it's a loophole in the suicide is a sin doctrine? So they go for 'death by cop'.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682

    Mr. HYUFD, it'd certainly explain Timothy's approach to the Conservative election campaign.

    Yes, trying to appeal to metropolitan liberals or working class leftwingers does not work for the Tories as the 2010 and 2017 general election campaigns proved. To win a majority the party first needs to secure its base then reach out to the centre and also warn of the threat from Labour as the 1992 and 2015 Tory general election campaigns showed
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,533
    edited August 2017

    Floater said:

    malcolmg said:

    Via Twitter, so not confirmed yet properly, but there are reports of a knife attack in Russia. No word yet on whether the perpetrator advocates low levels of taxation, so we await Leanne Woods' wisdom on the matter.

    I like the way the Russians say the perpetrator was liquidated.
    It seems he was wearing a fake suicide vest.

    Sounds vaguely familiar.....
    I’m fascinated by the idea of a fake suicide vest when the wearer is going into a situation where he (or she) may well be shot dead. Is ISIS top brass having an economy drive?
    And, if one is killed in those circumstances, is one still a martyr and entitled to the comforts due to such? Or are there more ‘advatanges' for someone who kills themselves, as opposed to someone who ‘only’ courts death?
    May have psychiatric disorders.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682

    HYUFD said:

    Looks like Nick Timothy is now truly a Red Tory, JeremyCorbynforPM has tweeted ones of his articles
    https://mobile.twitter.com/JeremyCorbyn4PM/status/898847009570009088

    He's right about the polytechnics though. Turning them into universities was a mistake.
    I also don't disagree with him on that aspect at least
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,533
    HYUFD said:

    Mr. HYUFD, it'd certainly explain Timothy's approach to the Conservative election campaign.

    Yes, trying to appeal to metropolitan liberals or working class leftwingers does not work for the Tories as the 2010 and 2017 general election campaigns proved. To win a majority the party first needs to secure its base then reach out to the centre and also warn of the threat from Labour as the 1992 and 2015 Tory general election campaigns showed
    Pretty sure the next GE campaign will be much more like a traditional effort by the Tories. Tax, tax, tax etc etc.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    edited August 2017
    Having seen how much of a liking for violence Russian men appear to have, I am not sure I would want trying to going stabby stab in a major Russian city. I fear I might get my head and chest caved in with a chair before the police would have chance to shoot me.

    Given most islamists are trying to avoid the rib crushimg experience at death by becoming a maryter seems like a bad idea.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,520
    edited August 2017

    Floater said:

    malcolmg said:

    Via Twitter, so not confirmed yet properly, but there are reports of a knife attack in Russia. No word yet on whether the perpetrator advocates low levels of taxation, so we await Leanne Woods' wisdom on the matter.

    I like the way the Russians say the perpetrator was liquidated.
    It seems he was wearing a fake suicide vest.

    Sounds vaguely familiar.....
    I’m fascinated by the idea of a fake suicide vest when the wearer is going into a situation where he (or she) may well be shot dead. Is ISIS top brass having an economy drive?
    And, if one is killed in those circumstances, is one still a martyr and entitled to the comforts due to such? Or are there more ‘advatanges' for someone who kills themselves, as opposed to someone who ‘only’ courts death?
    A guy with a fake bomb vest and a real knife is more likely to be successful in his aims of killing people and causing terror than a guy with a real bomb. The latter need more skills, more difficult-to-obtain material and have a high failure rate both before and during the attack.

    The fake bomb also ensures that will police will shoot to kill, thus ensuring his martyrdom. We remember the Lee Rigby killing, where the police showed admirable restraint in not unloading every bullet they had between them into the two f***ers (who didn't have fake bombs).
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,885
    Sandpit said:

    Floater said:

    malcolmg said:

    Via Twitter, so not confirmed yet properly, but there are reports of a knife attack in Russia. No word yet on whether the perpetrator advocates low levels of taxation, so we await Leanne Woods' wisdom on the matter.

    I like the way the Russians say the perpetrator was liquidated.
    It seems he was wearing a fake suicide vest.

    Sounds vaguely familiar.....
    I’m fascinated by the idea of a fake suicide vest when the wearer is going into a situation where he (or she) may well be shot dead. Is ISIS top brass having an economy drive?
    And, if one is killed in those circumstances, is one still a martyr and entitled to the comforts due to such? Or are there more ‘advatanges' for someone who kills themselves, as opposed to someone who ‘only’ courts death?
    A guy with a fake bomb vest and a real knife is more likely to be successful in his aims of killing people and causing terror than a guy with a real bomb. The latter need more skills, more difficult-to-obtain material and have a high failure rate both before and during the attack.

    The fake bomb also ensures that will police will shoot to kill, thus ensuring his martyrdom. We remember the Lee Rigby killing, where the police showed admirable restraint in not unloading every bullet they had between them into the two f***ers (who didn't have fake bombs).
    Very good points, thanks
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682

    HYUFD said:

    Mr. HYUFD, it'd certainly explain Timothy's approach to the Conservative election campaign.

    Yes, trying to appeal to metropolitan liberals or working class leftwingers does not work for the Tories as the 2010 and 2017 general election campaigns proved. To win a majority the party first needs to secure its base then reach out to the centre and also warn of the threat from Labour as the 1992 and 2015 Tory general election campaigns showed
    Pretty sure the next GE campaign will be much more like a traditional effort by the Tories. Tax, tax, tax etc etc.
    Yes, it was undoubtedly the 'dementia tax' which led to enough Tory leaning or centrist middle aged, middle class voters voting Labour, LD or staying at home to cost the party its majority
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Mike's comments re-Amber Rudd being likely to enjoy a local constituency boost were she to become Tory leader are not entirely supported by past results. Ted Heath became leader in July 1965 and saw his majority at Bexley halved to 2300 at the March 1966 election. Jeremy Thorpe fought his first election as Liberal leader in 1970 and came close to losing his Devon North seat - surviving by circa 350 following a recount.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,520

    Having seen how much of a liking for violence Russian men appear to have, I am not sure I would want trying to going stabby stab in a major Russian city. I fear I might get my head and chest caved in with a chair before the police would have chance to shoot me.

    Given most islamists are trying to avoid the rib crushimg experience at death by becoming a maryter seems like a bad idea.

    World Cup's going to be a riot next summer :)
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Mike also erroneously suggested that Labour's losses to the SNP in 2015 helped Cameron win a majority , whereas in fact seats changing hands between Opposition parties made no difference to the Tories winning 326! Labour's disastrous losses in Scotland added nothing to the Tory total.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,520
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mr. HYUFD, it'd certainly explain Timothy's approach to the Conservative election campaign.

    Yes, trying to appeal to metropolitan liberals or working class leftwingers does not work for the Tories as the 2010 and 2017 general election campaigns proved. To win a majority the party first needs to secure its base then reach out to the centre and also warn of the threat from Labour as the 1992 and 2015 Tory general election campaigns showed
    Pretty sure the next GE campaign will be much more like a traditional effort by the Tories. Tax, tax, tax etc etc.
    Yes, it was undoubtedly the 'dementia tax' which led to enough Tory leaning or centrist middle aged, middle class voters voting Labour, LD or staying at home to cost the party its majority
    Yes, a couple of good policies badly sold and presented, as well as a total lack of challenge to the opposition's fantasy economic magic money tree.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    Sandpit said:

    Interesting piece on the way savings may be about to change, through 'open banking'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/savings/technology-transform-way-save-cash-forever/

    Sounds awfully like the Islandic savings accounts that were so popular a few years ago...
    I did really well out of one of those and was very lucky to close the accounts withing a few months of it all going sour!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited August 2017

    Sandpit said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Sandpit said:

    Mr. Urquhart, not entirely dissimilar to the approach taken to encourage Christians to take up the cross and head off on crusade. Although that was centuries ago, in a more barbarous age.

    This is a central part of majiid nawaz thoughts...Ie most religions have violence and pretty horrid tales as part of their religious texts, but they have moedernized / adapted so even the most strict eg Christians are taught not to take them literally (unlike x00s of years ago)

    His claims are that reformers within the islamic world need to be found and supported to enable a similar process to occur within the islamic faith.
    There was a very good interview of Nawaz by Bill Maher in the US a couple of weeks ago, where he talks about this. Can't immediately find it online sadly.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=MlAw7qYLk5w
    Just watched the video in full. He should have a much higher profile than he does!
    Indeed so, but the British broadcast media are much more likely to give an interview to the MCB or some unelected 'Community Leader' who are part of the problem and not part of the solution. They preferred to talk about 'The Backlash' after one of their own had just blown up a couple of dozen people or a bunch of their own had just been sent down for organised and systematic child abuse.

    Also, Bill Maher deserves much more of a profile in the UK. He has his own politics but isn't afraid to call out those on either side who he thinks are wrong. His closing monologue on this week's show was about how the extremists on both sides conspire to screw things up - very apt after the events of the past few days. He's very very good at using humour to get his point across.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=6RARDVcljeU
    If majiid stood for parliament in my neck of the woods he would get my vote in an instance.

    The classic Maher moment that showed the "regressive left" was when he has Sam Harris on (a liberal neuroscience who has written a book with nawaz) and Ben affleck spent 10 mins screaming racist bigot at him and Mahe

    The like of maher, Harris and Rubin are among a small number of liberals in the us who are willing to listen, think and criticise their own "side" as well as the other.
    Doesn't Maher get called Islamaphobic by the usual suspects though? No different to anyone here who dares state the obvious
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,074
    Mr. Sandpit, yeah, but will benefit massively from the next being in Qatar. "At least it's not 50C."
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,533
    Sandpit said:

    Having seen how much of a liking for violence Russian men appear to have, I am not sure I would want trying to going stabby stab in a major Russian city. I fear I might get my head and chest caved in with a chair before the police would have chance to shoot me.

    Given most islamists are trying to avoid the rib crushimg experience at death by becoming a maryter seems like a bad idea.

    World Cup's going to be a riot next summer :)
    Russian 'fans' have been in training for years according to a scary documentary that was on about six months ago. Fights in the woods every weekend, only the hardest most brutal are allowed to join the gang etc etc.
  • Sandpit said:

    Having seen how much of a liking for violence Russian men appear to have, I am not sure I would want trying to going stabby stab in a major Russian city. I fear I might get my head and chest caved in with a chair before the police would have chance to shoot me.

    Given most islamists are trying to avoid the rib crushimg experience at death by becoming a maryter seems like a bad idea.

    World Cup's going to be a riot next summer :)
    Russian 'fans' have been in training for years according to a scary documentary that was on about six months ago. Fights in the woods every weekend, only the hardest most brutal are allowed to join the gang etc etc.
    It's isnt funny but does make my chuckle seeing these people who want to be seen as scary hard as nails wearing fanny packs.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, a great interview Mike, hope we can see many more of them.

    There's a few quid at 32 available on Betfair for Damian Green as next PM, or 22 for next Con leader.

    One comparison I might make that wasn't made in the piece would be the unpopularity of the SNP for banging on about a second referendum, with the unpopularity of the LDs for also banging on about a second referendum. ;)

    I would have thought the first is a better bet than the second. If the Conservatives don't replace Theresa May before they are removed from power, they are likely to pick a completely fresh face in opposition rather than a safe pair of hands. If I'm right, these two bets effectively represent the same thing.
    I would have thought they would look for someone younger too - if the next election is in 2019/2020 Green will be around 64 and be 69 by the time of a following election. I know Corbyn, Trump, Clinton have rewritten the rules but even so that strikes me as an issue.
    I am not so sure about that. Given the changes in health and life expectancy a person of circa 70 today is probably the equivalent of a 60 year old in the 1940s/1950s. On that basis, Corbyn and David Davis to name but two examples are no older than Macmillan in Jan 1957 or Attlee in July 1945. Both are ,of course, much younger than Churchill in 1951.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mr. HYUFD, it'd certainly explain Timothy's approach to the Conservative election campaign.

    Yes, trying to appeal to metropolitan liberals or working class leftwingers does not work for the Tories as the 2010 and 2017 general election campaigns proved. To win a majority the party first needs to secure its base then reach out to the centre and also warn of the threat from Labour as the 1992 and 2015 Tory general election campaigns showed
    Pretty sure the next GE campaign will be much more like a traditional effort by the Tories. Tax, tax, tax etc etc.
    Yes, it was undoubtedly the 'dementia tax' which led to enough Tory leaning or centrist middle aged, middle class voters voting Labour, LD or staying at home to cost the party its majority
    Yes, a couple of good policies badly sold and presented, as well as a total lack of challenge to the opposition's fantasy economic magic money tree.
    Next time expect the Tories to be better prepared
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, a great interview Mike, hope we can see many more of them.

    There's a few quid at 32 available on Betfair for Damian Green as next PM, or 22 for next Con leader.

    One comparison I might make that wasn't made in the piece would be the unpopularity of the SNP for banging on about a second referendum, with the unpopularity of the LDs for also banging on about a second referendum. ;)

    I would have thought the first is a better bet than the second. If the Conservatives don't replace Theresa May before they are removed from power, they are likely to pick a completely fresh face in opposition rather than a safe pair of hands. If I'm right, these two bets effectively represent the same thing.
    I would have thought they would look for someone younger too - if the next election is in 2019/2020 Green will be around 64 and be 69 by the time of a following election. I know Corbyn, Trump, Clinton have rewritten the rules but even so that strikes me as an issue.
    I am not so sure about that. Given the changes in health and life expectancy a person of circa 70 today is probably the equivalent of a 60 year old in the 1940s/1950s. On that basis, Corbyn and David Davis to name but two examples are no older than Macmillan in Jan 1957 or Attlee in July 1945. Both are ,of course, much younger than Churchill in 1951.
    Indeed, Berlusconi could also be elected Italian PM next year on current polls at the age of 80
  • Suggested that the terrorists wanted to blow up la Sagrada Familia
    http://www.elespanol.com/reportajes/20170819/240225983_0.html
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158

    Suggested that the terrorists wanted to blow up la Sagrada Familia
    http://www.elespanol.com/reportajes/20170819/240225983_0.html

    Have they even finished building it yet????
  • Mortimer said:

    Suggested that the terrorists wanted to blow up la Sagrada Familia
    http://www.elespanol.com/reportajes/20170819/240225983_0.html

    Have they even finished building it yet????
    Don't be silly.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    justin124 said:

    Mike also erroneously suggested that Labour's losses to the SNP in 2015 helped Cameron win a majority , whereas in fact seats changing hands between Opposition parties made no difference to the Tories winning 326! Labour's disastrous losses in Scotland added nothing to the Tory total.

    In exactly the same way as any Labour gains from the SNP would change nothing in Westminster on their own.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,520
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mr. HYUFD, it'd certainly explain Timothy's approach to the Conservative election campaign.

    Yes, trying to appeal to metropolitan liberals or working class leftwingers does not work for the Tories as the 2010 and 2017 general election campaigns proved. To win a majority the party first needs to secure its base then reach out to the centre and also warn of the threat from Labour as the 1992 and 2015 Tory general election campaigns showed
    Pretty sure the next GE campaign will be much more like a traditional effort by the Tories. Tax, tax, tax etc etc.
    Yes, it was undoubtedly the 'dementia tax' which led to enough Tory leaning or centrist middle aged, middle class voters voting Labour, LD or staying at home to cost the party its majority
    Yes, a couple of good policies badly sold and presented, as well as a total lack of challenge to the opposition's fantasy economic magic money tree.
    Next time expect the Tories to be better prepared
    We'd bloody better be! Hopefully lesson learned about complacency.

    I still don't understand why every cabinet member wasn't on the TV and radio 24/7 for three days defending the social care policy. That it was allowed to be defined by our opponents bodes very badly for the rest of the "Too-Difficult List" such as planning and major infrastructure.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,520

    Suggested that the terrorists wanted to blow up la Sagrada Familia
    http://www.elespanol.com/reportajes/20170819/240225983_0.html

    First ever case of terrorists wanting to blow up a building before they've even finished building it? ;)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157
    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, a great interview Mike, hope we can see many more of them.

    There's a few quid at 32 available on Betfair for Damian Green as next PM, or 22 for next Con leader.

    One comparison I might make that wasn't made in the piece would be the unpopularity of the SNP for banging on about a second referendum, with the unpopularity of the LDs for also banging on about a second referendum. ;)

    I would have thought the first is a better bet than the second. If the Conservatives don't replace Theresa May before they are removed from power, they are likely to pick a completely fresh face in opposition rather than a safe pair of hands. If I'm right, these two bets effectively represent the same thing.
    I would have thought they would look for someone younger too - if the next election is in 2019/2020 Green will be around 64 and be 69 by the time of a following election. I know Corbyn, Trump, Clinton have rewritten the rules but even so that strikes me as an issue.
    I am not so sure about that. Given the changes in health and life expectancy a person of circa 70 today is probably the equivalent of a 60 year old in the 1940s/1950s. On that basis, Corbyn and David Davis to name but two examples are no older than Macmillan in Jan 1957 or Attlee in July 1945. Both are ,of course, much younger than Churchill in 1951.
    Or Attlee and Davies in 1955, indeed.

    However, that would surely apply only if Green were seen as a charismatic and effective leader and a strong figure to rally the party after defeat. While, when I look at him, I see courage, integrity, a willingness to work with others and a high sense of public duty, I do not see those other qualities. He's Alec Douglas-Home without the casual racism, and while Home was not the worst of Prime Ministers (not a Goderich or a Brown) nor was he an effective leader of the Opposition, which is why he was removed in 1965.

    If Johnson were the one who was 65, perhaps. But not Green.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,533
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mr. HYUFD, it'd certainly explain Timothy's approach to the Conservative election campaign.

    Yes, trying to appeal to metropolitan liberals or working class leftwingers does not work for the Tories as the 2010 and 2017 general election campaigns proved. To win a majority the party first needs to secure its base then reach out to the centre and also warn of the threat from Labour as the 1992 and 2015 Tory general election campaigns showed
    Pretty sure the next GE campaign will be much more like a traditional effort by the Tories. Tax, tax, tax etc etc.
    Yes, it was undoubtedly the 'dementia tax' which led to enough Tory leaning or centrist middle aged, middle class voters voting Labour, LD or staying at home to cost the party its majority
    Yes, a couple of good policies badly sold and presented, as well as a total lack of challenge to the opposition's fantasy economic magic money tree.
    Next time expect the Tories to be better prepared
    We'd bloody better be! Hopefully lesson learned about complacency.

    I still don't understand why every cabinet member wasn't on the TV and radio 24/7 for three days defending the social care policy. That it was allowed to be defined by our opponents bodes very badly for the rest of the "Too-Difficult List" such as planning and major infrastructure.
    Rest of the Cabinet were deliberately kept out of the limelight in order to allow May to take all the glory of the expected landslide. You gotta laugh...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    edited August 2017
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mr. HYUFD, it'd certainly explain Timothy's approach to the Conservative election campaign.

    Yes, trying to appeal to metropolitan liberals or working class leftwingers does not work for the Tories as the 2010 and 2017 general election campaigns proved. To win a majority the party first needs to secure its base then reach out to the centre and also warn of the threat from Labour as the 1992 and 2015 Tory general election campaigns showed
    Pretty sure the next GE campaign will be much more like a traditional effort by the Tories. Tax, tax, tax etc etc.
    Yes, it was undoubtedly the 'dementia tax' which led to enough Tory leaning or centrist middle aged, middle class voters voting Labour, LD or staying at home to cost the party its majority
    Yes, a couple of good policies badly sold and presented, as well as a total lack of challenge to the opposition's fantasy economic magic money tree.
    Next time expect the Tories to be better prepared
    We'd bloody better be! Hopefully lesson learned about complacency.

    I still don't understand why every cabinet member wasn't on the TV and radio 24/7 for three days defending the social care policy. That it was allowed to be defined by our opponents bodes very badly for the rest of the "Too-Difficult List" such as planning and major infrastructure.
    It was a bad policy to begin with, they should have just kept the rise to £100k in assets you can keep if you have dementia and left the main residence exclusion for personal social care. Planning and infrastructure needs to be planned at a local level
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157
    edited August 2017
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, a great interview Mike, hope we can see many more of them.

    There's a few quid at 32 available on Betfair for Damian Green as next PM, or 22 for next Con leader.

    One comparison I might make that wasn't made in the piece would be the unpopularity of the SNP for banging on about a second referendum, with the unpopularity of the LDs for also banging on about a second referendum. ;)

    I would have thought the first is a better bet than the second. If the Conservatives don't replace Theresa May before they are removed from power, they are likely to pick a completely fresh face in opposition rather than a safe pair of hands. If I'm right, these two bets effectively represent the same thing.
    I would have thought they would look for someone younger too - if the next election is in 2019/2020 Green will be around 64 and be 69 by the time of a following election. I know Corbyn, Trump, Clinton have rewritten the rules but even so that strikes me as an issue.
    I am not so sure about that. Given the changes in health and life expectancy a person of circa 70 today is probably the equivalent of a 60 year old in the 1940s/1950s. On that basis, Corbyn and David Davis to name but two examples are no older than Macmillan in Jan 1957 or Attlee in July 1945. Both are ,of course, much younger than Churchill in 1951.
    Indeed, Berlusconi could also be elected Italian PM next year on current polls at the age of 80
    In fairness though, he probably can't decline morally or mentally from his current level so that makes him less of a risk.

    Indeed if age quiets his libido he might improve in some significant ways. Or if it doesn't he might turn out to be a latter-day Felix Faure, the only President of the Third Republic to achieve widespread popularity, albeit posthumously.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    edited August 2017
    This pink ball thing really isn't cricket. Broad just been on sky saying you can't shine it.l and it goes soft as a pudding after 20 overs.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    Mike also erroneously suggested that Labour's losses to the SNP in 2015 helped Cameron win a majority , whereas in fact seats changing hands between Opposition parties made no difference to the Tories winning 326! Labour's disastrous losses in Scotland added nothing to the Tory total.

    In exactly the same way as any Labour gains from the SNP would change nothing in Westminster on their own.
    Indeed so - though I think Labour could also win three or four of the Tory seats gained this year in Scotland.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, a great interview Mike, hope we can see many more of them.

    There's a few quid at 32 available on Betfair for Damian Green as next PM, or 22 for next Con leader.

    One comparison I might make that wasn't made in the piece would be the unpopularity of the SNP for banging on about a second referendum, with the unpopularity of the LDs for also banging on about a second referendum. ;)

    I would have thought the first is a better bet than the second. If the Conservatives don't replace Theresa May before they are removed from power, they are likely to pick a completely fresh face in opposition rather than a safe pair of hands. If I'm right, these two bets effectively represent the same thing.
    I would have thought they would look for someone younger too - if the next election is in 2019/2020 Green will be around 64 and be 69 by the time of a following election. I know Corbyn, Trump, Clinton have rewritten the rules but even so that strikes me as an issue.
    I am not so sure about that. Given the changes in health and life expectancy a person of circa 70 today is probably the equivalent of a 60 year old in the 1940s/1950s. On that basis, Corbyn and David Davis to name but two examples are no older than Macmillan in Jan 1957 or Attlee in July 1945. Both are ,of course, much younger than Churchill in 1951.
    Indeed, Berlusconi could also be elected Italian PM next year on current polls at the age of 80
    In fairness though, he probably can't decline morally or mentally from his current level so that makes him less of a risk.

    Indeed if age quiets his libido he might improve in some significant ways. Or if it doesn't he might turn out to be a latter-day Felix Faure, the only President of the Third Republic to achieve widespread popularity, albeit posthumously.
    At age 80 I would hope even Berlusconi might start to think about a cup of cocoa before bed rather than a night of passion
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157

    This pink ball thing really isn't cricket. Broad just been on sky saying you can't shine it.l and it goes soft as a pudding after 20 overs.

    It is interesting to note the only pink ball sold by Dukes on the open market is sold as a training ball, because it is nice and soft. But that is hardly what you want in tests.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, a great interview Mike, hope we can see many more of them.

    There's a few quid at 32 available on Betfair for Damian Green as next PM, or 22 for next Con leader.

    One comparison I might make that wasn't made in the piece would be the unpopularity of the SNP for banging on about a second referendum, with the unpopularity of the LDs for also banging on about a second referendum. ;)

    I would have thought the first is a better bet than the second. If the Conservatives don't replace Theresa May before they are removed from power, they are likely to pick a completely fresh face in opposition rather than a safe pair of hands. If I'm right, these two bets effectively represent the same thing.
    I would have thought they would look for someone younger too - if the next election is in 2019/2020 Green will be around 64 and be 69 by the time of a following election. I know Corbyn, Trump, Clinton have rewritten the rules but even so that strikes me as an issue.
    I am not so sure about that. Given the changes in health and life expectancy a person of circa 70 today is probably the equivalent of a 60 year old in the 1940s/1950s. On that basis, Corbyn and David Davis to name but two examples are no older than Macmillan in Jan 1957 or Attlee in July 1945. Both are ,of course, much younger than Churchill in 1951.
    Indeed, Berlusconi could also be elected Italian PM next year on current polls at the age of 80
    In fairness though, he probably can't decline morally or mentally from his current level so that makes him less of a risk.

    Indeed if age quiets his libido he might improve in some significant ways. Or if it doesn't he might turn out to be a latter-day Felix Faure, the only President of the Third Republic to achieve widespread popularity, albeit posthumously.
    At age 80 I would hope even Berlusconi might start to think about a cup of cocoa before bed rather than a night of passion
    But if he didn't the wonderful pun 'Il voulait être César, il ne fut que Pompée' would apply to him with even greater force?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,520
    edited August 2017

    Mr. Sandpit, yeah, but will benefit massively from the next being in Qatar. "At least it's not 50C."

    They moved it to December so the weather will be okay. Screws with the European domestic seasons though.
    The big problem they have now (apart from all the building work) is the local situation where they've had something of a falling out with their neighbours. Tour operators have already booked packages using Dubai as a base and flying 45 mins in and out of Qatar for the matches.

    Except there's no direct flights allowed between Qatar and UAE any more. And there's not a cat in Hell's chance there's enough hotel rooms in Qatar for all the fans. Who fancies a six hour flight from London to Qatar, half a day there to watch the match and another six hour flight home again? Maybe they'll book through somewhere like Istanbul instead?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    edited August 2017
    Sandpit said:

    Mr. Sandpit, yeah, but will benefit massively from the next being in Qatar. "At least it's not 50C."

    They moved it to December so the weather will be okay.
    The big problem they have now (apart from all the building work) is the local situation where they've had something of a falling out with their neighbours. Tour operators have already booked packages using Dubai as a base and flying 45 mins in an out of Qatar for the matches.

    Except there's no direct flights allowed between Qatar and UAE any more. And there's not a cat in Hell's chance there's enough hotel rooms in Qatar for all the fans. Who fancies a six hour flight from London to Qatar, half a day there to watch the match and another six hour flight home again? Maybe they'll book through somewhere like Istanbul instead?
    Will they not do what they did in brazil and run coaches that take hours to get there?
  • Well that was exciting cricket....
This discussion has been closed.