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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » When TMay apologists try to excuse her GE17 humiliation by bra

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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,259
    Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    I think Eire will play a very important role in this. The position of the EU that they want this discussed first allows us to address all the issues we want to address on trade and freedom of movement right now, not when we have agreed what needs to be paid.

    If we find a frictionless solution for the border with Eire why would we not copy it over to the rest of the EU in due course, possibly with the smallest of tweaks? The Customs Paper should form the basis for those discussions about Eire which everyone can pretend are not really about everyone else as well.

    Yes, Eire is absolutely crucial. They seem to be well ahead of the other EU27 governments in understanding the issues and dangers. Of course, they've got more to lose than anyone else.
    I've heard second hand that Ireland have come to the negotiations incredibly prepared. They've wargamed every eventuality and have a clear plan of what they want and need from Brexit more than any other EU nation and as a result they are a ket driver of the talks.
    Whereas in the UK...
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Alistair said:

    I've heard second hand that Ireland have come to the negotiations incredibly prepared. They've wargamed every eventuality and have a clear plan of what they want and need from Brexit more than any other EU nation and as a result they are a ket driver of the talks.

    Interesting. I can well believe it, just judging by their public pronouncements.
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    GIN1138 said:

    On topic, here's another stat that upsets the Maybots.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/873978710038388737

    The election was back for May and the Tories. We get it.

    Time for the PB editorial narrative to move on perhaps?
    Not really, it's one of the few active betting markets, Mrs May's crapness and when she goes.

    Oddly none of the Tories complained when Mike and myself did regular threads on Ed's crapness or Mike did lots of threads on Gordon Brown's crapness.
    Please can we have Gordon Brown's crapness compared to today's crapness?
    I begin a stint as editor of PB in three weeks time, you'll be delighted to know that my stint coincides with the tenth anniversary of Siôn Simon's 'Shortly there will be an election, in which Labour will increase its majority' piece.

    So yes, there will be a few comparison's with Gordon Brown coming up, meanwhile here's a piece comparing Gordon Brown and Theresa May I wrote last month.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/07/13/if-or-when-theresa-may-is-replaced-her-successor-shouldnt-hold-a-snap-election/
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    And they looked in the cupboard and the cupboard was bare.
  • Options

    GIN1138 said:

    On topic, here's another stat that upsets the Maybots.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/873978710038388737

    The election was back for May and the Tories. We get it.

    Time for the PB editorial narrative to move on perhaps?
    Not really, it's one of the few active betting markets, Mrs May's crapness and when she goes.

    Oddly none of the Tories complained when Mike and myself did regular threads on Ed's crapness or Mike did lots of threads on Gordon Brown's crapness.
    You surely remember the febrile atmosphere on here during the Cash For Honours scandal? The markets were alive with punters betting on just exactly when Blair would go. Guido was leading the charge, as I recall.

    Nobody complained, least of all me. I laid every single date and it proved one of my most successful political markets ever.
    I do remember, when Blair was questioned by the rozzers was fun, or rather it had been announced Blair had been questioned by the rozzers.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,079

    Alistair said:

    I've heard second hand that Ireland have come to the negotiations incredibly prepared. They've wargamed every eventuality and have a clear plan of what they want and need from Brexit more than any other EU nation and as a result they are a ket driver of the talks.

    Interesting. I can well believe it, just judging by their public pronouncements.
    Ireland is the Brexiteers' biggest nightmare. Osborne was absolutely right to say that they now have the upper hand in negotiations with the UK.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,726
    edited August 2017
    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    FF43 said:

    OK. So we will be in a customs union with the EU with everything that implies. Why not say so?
    A Customs Union but not the Customs Union. It is a critical difference. One is a bilateral arrangement between 2 parties of equal standing if not size that can be reviewed, changed and even terminated at the instance of either party. The other is a key element of the Single Market binding its participants into an entire legal system and regulation by the Court of one of the parties.
    It's a distinction that is designed to confuse than to inform. Membership of the EU comes with free internal trade and a common external customs tariff and set of trade agreements with third parties. There is no standalone Customs Union as part of the membership. Those arrangements lapse automatically on loss of membership. Any replacement will as you say will necessarily be a bilateral agreement between the EU and the UK. While the agreement will stay the same until it is periodically amended, the actual tariffs applied and the product regulation etc will under any plausible agreement be decided by the EU unilaterally and will constantly change. The agreement will also be enforced by EU law if not, probably, by an EU court.

    That's the deal. It's now up to the UK to push for the best arrangement it can get. If you pretend it's something it's not because you are fightened of acquainting part of your electorate with reality, and try to muddy the waters through "constructive ambiguity", you will get a mush of a negotiation.
    PS I meant to say A Customs Union but not THE Customs Union makes a distinction between the arrangement we had before, that lapses with our membership of the EU, and ANY customs union that we might have afterwards, which will always be a formal bilateral arrangement. It isn't helpful to say something is different before and then imply the same distinction for options that exist afterwards.

    And PPS our trade deals with third countries under an EU customs union will be shaped by the existing arrangements between the EU and those third countries. We have enough clout to get attention but our trade arrangements will typically be inferior to our existing ones through the EU for several reasons, some of which are quite technical.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481
    edited August 2017

    A Conservative MP will go on trial in May next year on charges over his 2015 general election expenses.

    The wheels seem to be grinding extremely slowly - it will be ancient history by then.
    Without wishing to prejudice the trial or cast aspersions on his innocence, if he is found guilty, the subsequent by election won't be ancient history, a 2018 Q3 by election will be in the background of the Brexit deal close to being fully fleshed out.
  • Options
    A couple of weeks ago, my parents' high-tech neighbour was locked out of his house for about an hour during a power cut. He had set up a UPS for his router and other equipment, but had neglected to do so for his electronic door lock. The door had no manual override either.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    Without wishing to prejudice the trial or cast aspersions on his innocence, if he is found guilty, the subsequent by election won't be ancient history, a 2018 Q3 by election will be in the background of the Brexit deal close to being fully fleshed out.

    True.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,259

    GIN1138 said:

    On topic, here's another stat that upsets the Maybots.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/873978710038388737

    The election was back for May and the Tories. We get it.

    Time for the PB editorial narrative to move on perhaps?
    Not really, it's one of the few active betting markets, Mrs May's crapness and when she goes.

    Oddly none of the Tories complained when Mike and myself did regular threads on Ed's crapness or Mike did lots of threads on Gordon Brown's crapness.
    Please can we have Gordon Brown's crapness compared to today's crapness?
    I begin a stint as editor of PB in three weeks time, you'll be delighted to know that my stint coincides with the tenth anniversary of Siôn Simon's 'Shortly there will be an election, in which Labour will increase its majority' piece.

    So yes, there will be a few comparison's with Gordon Brown coming up, meanwhile here's a piece comparing Gordon Brown and Theresa May I wrote last month.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/07/13/if-or-when-theresa-may-is-replaced-her-successor-shouldnt-hold-a-snap-election/
    Good stuff. Although what I meant to say was 'give me Gordon Brown's version of crap over today's Maybot EU feck up crap'
  • Options

    The main reason T May lost her majority was the manifesto and the appalling presentation thereof. The care side of things and the removal of the Winter fuel Allowance sealed her fate. Crass in the extreme. Just claimed my allowance for the first time!.
    Thank Nick Timothy et al!!!.

    It could have been worse, SR.

    If you look at the chart of polls in the weeks leading up to the Election, Labour was advancing fast and showed no sign of stopping. I know loyalists like yourself on here kept telling us that they had peaked, but there was no evidence of it. I reckon another week and Labour would have taken the lead, Corbyn would have been PM.

    Btw, do you know what happened to Black Rook? He posted regularly and at great length before the election but I haven't noticed him since. I hope he's ok, but fear he lost a lot of money and has done a Stuart Truth as a result.

    Any news of him would be appreciated.
    I do not recall saying Labour had peaked. I thought like many that they were going to get stuffed.... but I wasn't doing anything on the ground. If I had perhaps I would have had a better idea,.
    No news of Black Rook then?

    Shame. He was an articulate poster. I do hope he didn't lose his shirt.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,931

    isam said:
    Impressive. Although I bet the ten students who didn't get to uni out of 200 are a bit pissed off.
    The ten white WWC kids there probably
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035
    ydoethur said:


    I will bow to your superior knowledge on the GCML.

    However, I flatly disagree with your final sentence. Substantial growth in traffic with the right management could and should have been foreseen, simply by looking at demographic trends and the rapid growth of dormer towns in the 1950s. Admittedly, increased freight is a different matter and I don't think rail freight has increased overall anyway although I haven't checked the figures.

    The problem with Beeching was that he was unable to grasp what could be done, settling instead for what he thought might be profitable. With the net result that what could be done was not done, and what had been profitable ceased to be so.

    I'm getting to the limit of my immediate knowledge on this, but I wholeheartedly disagree. Twenty years ago - bracketing privatisation - I knew several BR managers. One spoke freely about how their mindset was about managing a shrinking network. BR did a brilliant job (yes, really) of getting bang for their buck, but that involved things like 'rationalisation': reducing duplicate lines (e.g. the March to Spalding line) and singling routes. In some cases, these decisions are being reversed.

    There are big arguments about why traffic has more than doubled in the twenty years since privatisation. The truth probably lies in a combination of all of the usual answers: increased travel in all modes, a different management mindset, competition, government investment and governmental reduction in support for road traffic.

    I doubt the traffic would have increased as much as it has without the latter two factors from central government. The 1955 modernisation plan was a disaster. The vaguely unplanned investments since the late 1990s have been much more successful, even if some of the large projects such as the WCML upgrade and the GWML electrifications were/are disasters.

    The governments in the 1960s and 1970s were unwilling to give such support, and therefore Beeching was necessary. In fact, the railways were probably not ready for it then, either.
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    GIN1138 said:

    On topic, here's another stat that upsets the Maybots.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/873978710038388737

    The election was back for May and the Tories. We get it.

    Time for the PB editorial narrative to move on perhaps?
    Not really, it's one of the few active betting markets, Mrs May's crapness and when she goes.

    Oddly none of the Tories complained when Mike and myself did regular threads on Ed's crapness or Mike did lots of threads on Gordon Brown's crapness.
    Neither of those ever won a general election.
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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    edited August 2017
    O/T but regarding trains

    I travelled on Crossrail yesterday, Newcastle to Leeds. What a horrible experience. Only 5 carriages for a train traveling from Aberdeen to Plymouth. Crowded, dirty and no buffet service, just trollies. I was considering doing the whole journey after I retire but not now.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2017
    That is pretty amazing feat by Macron, given all the positive soft soaping he got from the world media and he hasn't even really got started on the stuff that will cause the French to take up their national sport of strikes / riots.
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    GIN1138 said:

    On topic, here's another stat that upsets the Maybots.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/873978710038388737

    The election was back for May and the Tories. We get it.

    Time for the PB editorial narrative to move on perhaps?
    Not really, it's one of the few active betting markets, Mrs May's crapness and when she goes.

    Oddly none of the Tories complained when Mike and myself did regular threads on Ed's crapness or Mike did lots of threads on Gordon Brown's crapness.
    Neither of those ever won a general election.
    But like those two, she oversaw a net seat loss at their only general election.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898

    A couple of weeks ago, my parents' high-tech neighbour was locked out of his house for about an hour during a power cut. He had set up a UPS for his router and other equipment, but had neglected to do so for his electronic door lock. The door had no manual override either.
    Whoops! If rule number 1 is to test upgrades before deploying them, rule number 2 is to make sure that everything on the critical path has a battery backup for power. Something as critical as a door lock should always have a manual override, even if it's keeping a spare key to the back door in the car.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    No news of Black Rook then?

    Shame. He was an articulate poster. I do hope he didn't lose his shirt.

    Yes, he was an excellent poster, one of the most perceptive.

    His valedictory post was here:

    http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/1635345#Comment_1635345
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035

    A couple of weeks ago, my parents' high-tech neighbour was locked out of his house for about an hour during a power cut. He had set up a UPS for his router and other equipment, but had neglected to do so for his electronic door lock. The door had no manual override either.
    Engineers at company X devised their own security system and door locks. This worked well until some engineers were working on a Saturday during a power cut. The controlling computer did not reboot afterwards, meaning that all the internal and external doors were locked secure. If there'd been a fire, they'd have been locked in.

    In the end they removed the glass from a door to get into the server room and reboot the computer. The system was switched off soon afterwards and replaced with a bought-in system that had safety-first rather than security-first at its heart ...

    (The system also logged how long you spent in the toilets. Needless to say, this 'logging' of logs was soon removed).
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308
    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    FF43 said:

    OK. So we will be in a customs union with the EU with everything that implies. Why not say so?
    A Customs Union but not the Customs Union. It is a critical difference. One is a bilateral arrangement between 2 parties of equal standing if not size that can be reviewed, changed and even terminated at the instance of either party. The other is a key element of the Single Market binding its participants into an entire legal system and regulation by the Court of one of the parties.
    It's a distinction that is designed to confuse than to inform. Membership of the EU comes with free internal trade and a common external customs tariff and set of trade agreements with third parties. There is no standalone Customs Union as part of the membership. Those arrangements lapse automatically on loss of membership. Any replacement will as you say will necessarily be a bilateral agreement between the EU and the UK. While the agreement will stay the same until it is periodically amended, the actual tariffs applied and the product regulation etc will under any plausible agreement be decided by the EU unilaterally and will constantly change. The agreement will also be enforced by EU law if not, probably, by an EU court.

    That's the deal. It's now up to the UK to push for the best arrangement it can get. If you pretend it's something it's not because you are fightened of acquainting part of your electorate with reality, and try to muddy the waters through "constructive ambiguity", you will get a mush of a negotiation.
    I'm glad that you are not on our negotiating team.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035
    Blue_rog said:

    O/T but regarding trains

    I travelled on Crossrail yesterday, Newcastle to Leeds. What a horrible experience. Only 5 carriages for a train traveling from Aberdeen to Plymouth. Crowded, dirty and no buffet service, just trollies. I was considering doing the whole journey after I retire but not now.

    Sorry to hear about that. But surely it was Cross Country and not Crossrail ?
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308

    Blue_rog said:

    O/T but regarding trains

    I travelled on Crossrail yesterday, Newcastle to Leeds. What a horrible experience. Only 5 carriages for a train traveling from Aberdeen to Plymouth. Crowded, dirty and no buffet service, just trollies. I was considering doing the whole journey after I retire but not now.

    Sorry to hear about that. But surely it was Cross Country and not Crossrail ?
    Wouldn't you have been cross?
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,314
    edited August 2017

    No news of Black Rook then?

    Shame. He was an articulate poster. I do hope he didn't lose his shirt.

    Yes, he was an excellent poster, one of the most perceptive.

    His valedictory post was here:

    http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/1635345#Comment_1635345
    Great. As was @RochdalePioneers. His/her assessment of could he/would he/might he on Jezza was fantastic (written last week of May).

    Here it is (yes I kept it):

    "What recent elections have shown us is that the public mood is fickle and can swing significantly as the campaign reaches the closing stages. In 2015 I was convinced Labour would win going off what we were hearing on the doors. Right up until the final week when "Milliband will be the SNP puppet" resonated hard. Tory voters came flooding back and surprised everyone including the Tories.

    With the referendum it was a remain win on paper despite hearing a lot of leave voters on the doors. The late surge of leave caught the pollsters and bookies with their pants down.

    And now we have 2017. The CORBYN CAN'T WIN election. He can't win. He won't win. Until he wins. Because if you set aside the can't win won't win mantra, it's clear that he is winning:
    1. Labour manifesto offering a positive vision for the future. A hope manifesto with free puppies for all.
    2. Tory manifesto offers no vision other than mean-minded snatching of homes and the slow death of public services and civic society.
    3. Two million people added themselves to the electoral register by the deadline. They aren't Tory voters
    4. Tory campaign was Strong and Stable. And unwilling to speak to people. Has now become Incoherent and Running Scared. And unable to talk to people. A campaign that only works when Jezza can't win and won't win. But what if he can...?

    I entered this campaign expecting one of two results : a Tory majority of 50 or a Tory majority of 150. But I can't deny what I can see and touch - a Labour surge that grows exponentially each day and a Tory cataclysm of a campaign that makes voting for them look increasingly like an act of self harm.

    Despite all that, common sense still suggests a Tory win. But what if common sense isn't what the silent majority who delivered a Tory win against expectations are wanting now? After a decade of crippling austerity the promise of worse to come doesn't look as attractive as free puppies with Corbyn"
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,726
    DavidL said:

    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    FF43 said:

    OK. So we will be in a customs union with the EU with everything that implies. Why not say so?
    A Customs Union but not the Customs Union. It is a critical difference. One is a bilateral arrangement between 2 parties of equal standing if not size that can be reviewed, changed and even terminated at the instance of either party. The other is a key element of the Single Market binding its participants into an entire legal system and regulation by the Court of one of the parties.
    It's a distinction that is designed to confuse than to inform. Membership of the EU comes with free internal trade and a common external customs tariff and set of trade agreements with third parties. There is no standalone Customs Union as part of the membership. Those arrangements lapse automatically on loss of membership. Any replacement will as you say will necessarily be a bilateral agreement between the EU and the UK. While the agreement will stay the same until it is periodically amended, the actual tariffs applied and the product regulation etc will under any plausible agreement be decided by the EU unilaterally and will constantly change. The agreement will also be enforced by EU law if not, probably, by an EU court.

    That's the deal. It's now up to the UK to push for the best arrangement it can get. If you pretend it's something it's not because you are fightened of acquainting part of your electorate with reality, and try to muddy the waters through "constructive ambiguity", you will get a mush of a negotiation.
    I'm glad that you are not on our negotiating team.
    The choice is essentially between piggy-backing off the EU system or going it alone and doing without existing arrangements with both the EU and third countries. Under the first we are somewhat worse off; under the second a lot worse off. Seems a no brainer to me. Just needs a bit of clarity about where we are.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035
    DavidL said:

    Blue_rog said:

    O/T but regarding trains

    I travelled on Crossrail yesterday, Newcastle to Leeds. What a horrible experience. Only 5 carriages for a train traveling from Aberdeen to Plymouth. Crowded, dirty and no buffet service, just trollies. I was considering doing the whole journey after I retire but not now.

    Sorry to hear about that. But surely it was Cross Country and not Crossrail ?
    Wouldn't you have been cross?
    If Newcastle to Leeds had taken me via Crossrail in London, yes. ;)
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    No news of Black Rook then?

    Shame. He was an articulate poster. I do hope he didn't lose his shirt.

    Yes, he was an excellent poster, one of the most perceptive.

    His valedictory post was here:

    http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/1635345#Comment_1635345
    Thank you Richard. I didn't see that.

    What an excellent post. One has to wish her well for that, and all the other thoughtful contributions.

    She was of course in good company in calling the election wrong. (Ahem.) She did at least only have to suffer mild embarrassment. I had to cough up 500 quid for a friend, having refused to put 50 on a Hung Parliament at 10/1 for them.

    Some of us never learn.
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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019

    Blue_rog said:

    O/T but regarding trains

    I travelled on Crossrail yesterday, Newcastle to Leeds. What a horrible experience. Only 5 carriages for a train traveling from Aberdeen to Plymouth. Crowded, dirty and no buffet service, just trollies. I was considering doing the whole journey after I retire but not now.

    Sorry to hear about that. But surely it was Cross Country and not Crossrail ?
    Oops yes, and I was cross :)
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Sandpit said:

    A couple of weeks ago, my parents' high-tech neighbour was locked out of his house for about an hour during a power cut. He had set up a UPS for his router and other equipment, but had neglected to do so for his electronic door lock. The door had no manual override either.
    Whoops! If rule number 1 is to test upgrades before deploying them, rule number 2 is to make sure that everything on the critical path has a battery backup for power. Something as critical as a door lock should always have a manual override, even if it's keeping a spare key to the back door in the car.
    Rule 0 - Always have a manual override.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481
    edited August 2017
    Bloody French and their stupid language.

    Domino’s Pizza Enterprises Ltd. thought its online delivery platform could be the pièce de résistance of a strategy to fire up sales in France.

    Turns out, the system—used in English-speaking countries such as Australia and New Zealand—had problems dealing with apostrophes, commonly found in French addresses and locations like the Rue de l’Université in Paris. It was also challenged by French slang, resulting in hungry diners being told delivery wasn’t available where they were.

    Investors found the confusion hard to stomach on Tuesday when the Sydney-listed company, which licenses the brand from U.S.-based Domino’s Pizza Inc., DPZ 0.54% blamed sluggish performance in France for a lower-than-expected annual profit. Shares fell nearly 19% by late afternoon, wiping more than 800 million Australian dollars (US$628 million) off its market value.


    https://www.wsj.com/articles/doh-dominos-pizza-delivery-struggles-with-apostrophes-in-france-1502780139?mod=e2fb
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308
    TOPPING said:

    No news of Black Rook then?

    Shame. He was an articulate poster. I do hope he didn't lose his shirt.

    Yes, he was an excellent poster, one of the most perceptive.

    His valedictory post was here:

    http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/1635345#Comment_1635345
    Great. As was @RochdalePioneers. His/her assessment of could he/would he/might he on Jezza was fantastic (written last week of May).

    Here it is (yes I kept it):

    "What recent elections have shown us is that the public mood is fickle and can swing significantly as the campaign reaches the closing stages. In 2015 I was convinced Labour would win going off what we were hearing on the doors. Right up until the final week when "Milliband will be the SNP puppet" resonated hard. Tory voters came flooding back and surprised everyone including the Tories.

    With the referendum it was a remain win on paper despite hearing a lot of leave voters on the doors. The late surge of leave caught the pollsters and bookies with their pants down.

    And now we have 2017. The CORBYN CAN'T WIN election. He can't win. He won't win. Until he wins. Because if you set aside the can't win won't win mantra, it's clear that he is winning:
    1. Labour manifesto offering a positive vision for the future. A hope manifesto with free puppies for all.
    2. Tory manifesto offers no vision other than mean-minded snatching of homes and the slow death of public services and civic society.
    3. Two million people added themselves to the electoral register by the deadline. They aren't Tory voters
    4. Tory campaign was Strong and Stable. And unwilling to speak to people. Has now become Incoherent and Running Scared. And unable to talk to people. A campaign that only works when Jezza can't win and won't win. But what if he can...?

    I entered this campaign expecting one of two results : a Tory majority of 50 or a Tory majority of 150. But I can't deny what I can see and touch - a Labour surge that grows exponentially each day and a Tory cataclysm of a campaign that makes voting for them look increasingly like an act of self harm.

    Despite all that, common sense still suggests a Tory win. But what if common sense isn't what the silent majority who delivered a Tory win against expectations are wanting now? After a decade of crippling austerity the promise of worse to come doesn't look as attractive as free puppies with Corbyn"
    That is a really excellent post. Well done to you for keeping it.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,687

    isam said:
    Impressive. Although I bet the ten students who didn't get to uni out of 200 are a bit pissed off.
    It is impressive, but I doubt the 5% who didn't get to uni are unhappy not to have the debt... Hard to say without the wider context but no way should we aim to get 95% to uni.

    My neice started at uni last September, hated it after 2 days, cam home, avoided the fees, and now has an Accountancy apprenticeship with a local firm... Bay far the right choice for her imho.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    Bloody French and their stupid language.

    Domino’s Pizza Enterprises Ltd. thought its online delivery platform could be the pièce de résistance of a strategy to fire up sales in France.

    Turns out, the system—used in English-speaking countries such as Australia and New Zealand—had problems dealing with apostrophe

    A company deserves everything it gets if its computer system can't cope with delivering a pizza to itself.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,079

    Bloody French and their stupid language.

    Domino’s Pizza Enterprises Ltd. thought its online delivery platform could be the pièce de résistance of a strategy to fire up sales in France.

    Turns out, the system—used in English-speaking countries such as Australia and New Zealand—had problems dealing with apostrophes, commonly found in French addresses and locations like the Rue de l’Université in Paris.

    I don't suppose Domino's deliver much in Bishop's Stortford or King's Lynn.
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    brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited August 2017
    isam said:
    Good for him. But do we really want 95 per cent of kids going to university - Newham needs tradesmen to build housing not swathes of graduates for whom there aren't enough career opportunities.
  • Options

    Bloody French and their stupid language.

    Domino’s Pizza Enterprises Ltd. thought its online delivery platform could be the pièce de résistance of a strategy to fire up sales in France.

    Turns out, the system—used in English-speaking countries such as Australia and New Zealand—had problems dealing with apostrophes, commonly found in French addresses and locations like the Rue de l’Université in Paris. It was also challenged by French slang, resulting in hungry diners being told delivery wasn’t available where they were.

    Investors found the confusion hard to stomach on Tuesday when the Sydney-listed company, which licenses the brand from U.S.-based Domino’s Pizza Inc., DPZ 0.54% blamed sluggish performance in France for a lower-than-expected annual profit. Shares fell nearly 19% by late afternoon, wiping more than 800 million Australian dollars (US$628 million) off its market value.


    https://www.wsj.com/articles/doh-dominos-pizza-delivery-struggles-with-apostrophes-in-france-1502780139?mod=e2fb

    Since when was that an apostrophe above the e? That's an e-acute accent not an apostrophe.
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    No news of Black Rook then?

    Shame. He was an articulate poster. I do hope he didn't lose his shirt.

    Yes, he was an excellent poster, one of the most perceptive.

    His valedictory post was here:

    http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/1635345#Comment_1635345
    Great. As was @RochdalePioneers. His/her assessment of could he/would he/might he on Jezza was fantastic (written last week of May).

    Here it is (yes I kept it):

    "What recent elections have shown us is that the public mood is fickle and can swing significantly as the campaign reaches the closing stages. In 2015 I was convinced Labour would win going off what we were hearing on the doors. Right up until the final week when "Milliband will be the SNP puppet" resonated hard. Tory voters came flooding back and surprised everyone including the Tories.

    With the referendum it was a remain win on paper despite hearing a lot of leave voters on the doors. The late surge of leave caught the pollsters and bookies with their pants down.

    And now we have 2017. The CORBYN CAN'T WIN election. He can't win. He won't win. Until he wins. Because if you set aside the can't win won't win mantra, it's clear that he is winning:
    1. Labour manifesto offering a positive vision for the future. A hope manifesto with free puppies for all.
    2. Tory manifesto offers no vision other than mean-minded snatching of homes and the slow death of public services and civic society.
    3. Two million people added themselves to the electoral register by the deadline. They aren't Tory voters
    4. Tory campaign was Strong and Stable. And unwilling to speak to people. Has now become Incoherent and Running Scared. And unable to talk to people. A campaign that only works when Jezza can't win and won't win. But what if he can...?

    I entered this campaign expecting one of two results : a Tory majority of 50 or a Tory majority of 150. But I can't deny what I can see and touch - a Labour surge that grows exponentially each day and a Tory cataclysm of a campaign that makes voting for them look increasingly like an act of self harm.

    Despite all that, common sense still suggests a Tory win. But what if common sense isn't what the silent majority who delivered a Tory win against expectations are wanting now? After a decade of crippling austerity the promise of worse to come doesn't look as attractive as free puppies with Corbyn"
    That is a really excellent post. Well done to you for keeping it.
    But in the end, the Tories did win and Corbyn didn't.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    GIN1138 said:

    On topic, here's another stat that upsets the Maybots.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/873978710038388737

    The election was back for May and the Tories. We get it.

    Time for the PB editorial narrative to move on perhaps?
    Not really, it's one of the few active betting markets, Mrs May's crapness and when she goes.

    Oddly none of the Tories complained when Mike and myself did regular threads on Ed's crapness or Mike did lots of threads on Gordon Brown's crapness.
    Neither of those ever won a general election.
    But like those two, she oversaw a net seat loss at their only general election.
    But all Cameron's successes were just part of the build-up to his massive failures, and his twin enduring legacies of Brexit and TMay. In pleading his electoral gains in his favour, you are like someone who has pleaded guilty to murdering and dismembering his girlfriend and who now pleads in mitigation that yebbut I took her to some really expensive restaurants. The crapper TMay, the more blame for Cameron.
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    Bloody French and their stupid language.

    Domino’s Pizza Enterprises Ltd. thought its online delivery platform could be the pièce de résistance of a strategy to fire up sales in France.

    Turns out, the system—used in English-speaking countries such as Australia and New Zealand—had problems dealing with apostrophes

    Maybe @TOPPING could help Domino's?
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    No news of Black Rook then?

    Shame. He was an articulate poster. I do hope he didn't lose his shirt.

    Yes, he was an excellent poster, one of the most perceptive.

    His valedictory post was here:

    http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/1635345#Comment_1635345
    Thank you Richard. I didn't see that.

    What an excellent post. One has to wish her well for that, and all the other thoughtful contributions.

    She was of course in good company in calling the election wrong. (Ahem.) She did at least only have to suffer mild embarrassment. I had to cough up 500 quid for a friend, having refused to put 50 on a Hung Parliament at 10/1 for them.

    Some of us never learn.
    She was indeed great, but what's the evidence that she was a she?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898

    Bloody French and their stupid language.

    Domino’s Pizza Enterprises Ltd. thought its online delivery platform could be the pièce de résistance of a strategy to fire up sales in France.

    Turns out, the system—used in English-speaking countries such as Australia and New Zealand—had problems dealing with apostrophes, commonly found in French addresses and locations like the Rue de l’Université in Paris. It was also challenged by French slang, resulting in hungry diners being told delivery wasn’t available where they were.

    Investors found the confusion hard to stomach on Tuesday when the Sydney-listed company, which licenses the brand from U.S.-based Domino’s Pizza Inc., DPZ 0.54% blamed sluggish performance in France for a lower-than-expected annual profit. Shares fell nearly 19% by late afternoon, wiping more than 800 million Australian dollars (US$628 million) off its market value.


    https://www.wsj.com/articles/doh-dominos-pizza-delivery-struggles-with-apostrophes-in-france-1502780139?mod=e2fb

    And if their database can't cope with apostrophes in street names, what else can't it cope with?

    https://www.xkcd.com/327/ ;)
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Big shout out to the PB Brexit PR team this morning, working hard to spin some Brexit gold from the kak-laden straw of the latest shambles.

    You really put a shift in.

    Unlike this guy...

    https://twitter.com/aljwhite/status/897412606419496960
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,314

    Bloody French and their stupid language.

    Domino’s Pizza Enterprises Ltd. thought its online delivery platform could be the pièce de résistance of a strategy to fire up sales in France.

    Turns out, the system—used in English-speaking countries such as Australia and New Zealand—had problems dealing with apostrophes

    Maybe @TOPPING could help Domino's?
    If I say extra pineapple will I get banned?
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    TOPPING said:

    If I say extra pineapple will I get banned?

    If there is any justice in the World...
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    Ishmael_Z said:

    GIN1138 said:

    On topic, here's another stat that upsets the Maybots.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/873978710038388737

    The election was back for May and the Tories. We get it.

    Time for the PB editorial narrative to move on perhaps?
    Not really, it's one of the few active betting markets, Mrs May's crapness and when she goes.

    Oddly none of the Tories complained when Mike and myself did regular threads on Ed's crapness or Mike did lots of threads on Gordon Brown's crapness.
    Neither of those ever won a general election.
    But like those two, she oversaw a net seat loss at their only general election.
    But all Cameron's successes were just part of the build-up to his massive failures, and his twin enduring legacies of Brexit and TMay. In pleading his electoral gains in his favour, you are like someone who has pleaded guilty to murdering and dismembering his girlfriend and who now pleads in mitigation that yebbut I took her to some really expensive restaurants. The crapper TMay, the more blame for Cameron.
    If you like paradoxes, Ish, politics is full of them.

    I thought Cameron was a good PM, but his reputation will be forever tarnished by Brexit/May. Blair likewise was a talented PM, but looks like Iraq has scuppered his reputation for ever.

    And what about Gordon Brown? He was a terrible PM, yet he rescued our economy and quite likely many others too from complete financial meltdown during the worst of the Banking crisis.

    So where do all three rank in terms of infamy? Not easy......
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    TOPPING said:

    Bloody French and their stupid language.

    Domino’s Pizza Enterprises Ltd. thought its online delivery platform could be the pièce de résistance of a strategy to fire up sales in France.

    Turns out, the system—used in English-speaking countries such as Australia and New Zealand—had problems dealing with apostrophes

    Maybe @TOPPING could help Domino's?
    If I say extra pineapple will I get banned?
    When eating pineapple on pizza do your discussions turn to how bad Radiohead are?

    If so, you're doomed.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Sandpit said:

    Bloody French and their stupid language.

    Domino’s Pizza Enterprises Ltd. thought its online delivery platform could be the pièce de résistance of a strategy to fire up sales in France.

    Turns out, the system—used in English-speaking countries such as Australia and New Zealand—had problems dealing with apostrophes, commonly found in French addresses and locations like the Rue de l’Université in Paris. It was also challenged by French slang, resulting in hungry diners being told delivery wasn’t available where they were.

    Investors found the confusion hard to stomach on Tuesday when the Sydney-listed company, which licenses the brand from U.S.-based Domino’s Pizza Inc., DPZ 0.54% blamed sluggish performance in France for a lower-than-expected annual profit. Shares fell nearly 19% by late afternoon, wiping more than 800 million Australian dollars (US$628 million) off its market value.


    https://www.wsj.com/articles/doh-dominos-pizza-delivery-struggles-with-apostrophes-in-france-1502780139?mod=e2fb

    And if their database can't cope with apostrophes in street names, what else can't it cope with?

    https://www.xkcd.com/327/ ;)
    When people ask me where I eat in Paris I tell them I know a simple and unpretentious place just off the Boul' Mich', much frequented by the locals - always a good sign - and with excellent coffee. I do not tell them about the twin golden arches with which it welcomes its patrons.
  • Options
    Ishmael_Z said:

    No news of Black Rook then?

    Shame. He was an articulate poster. I do hope he didn't lose his shirt.

    Yes, he was an excellent poster, one of the most perceptive.

    His valedictory post was here:

    http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/1635345#Comment_1635345
    Thank you Richard. I didn't see that.

    What an excellent post. One has to wish her well for that, and all the other thoughtful contributions.

    She was of course in good company in calling the election wrong. (Ahem.) She did at least only have to suffer mild embarrassment. I had to cough up 500 quid for a friend, having refused to put 50 on a Hung Parliament at 10/1 for them.

    Some of us never learn.
    She was indeed great, but what's the evidence that she was a she?
    Refers to a husband in her post. Not conclusive, obviously, but odds on.

    Not that it matters.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035

    Bloody French and their stupid language.

    Domino’s Pizza Enterprises Ltd. thought its online delivery platform could be the pièce de résistance of a strategy to fire up sales in France.

    Turns out, the system—used in English-speaking countries such as Australia and New Zealand—had problems dealing with apostrophes, commonly found in French addresses and locations like the Rue de l’Université in Paris.

    I don't suppose Domino's deliver much in Bishop's Stortford or King's Lynn.
    I have an anecdote about Domino's. Last week I was forced to spend half an hour in a local supermarket whilst they found a staff member who had a clue. In the meantime, I chatted to a young assistant. She told me that she had an older brother in his early twenties who did very little and spent all his money on phones, his moped and ... pizza. She and their mum cleaned out his room, and two weeks later they found a pile of eighteen Domino's boxes in it.

    That's eighteen boxes in two weeks.

    I asked where he got his money from, and she just shrugged.

    It's hardly a depressed area, and there are lots of opportunities. She also said that she was the only one in her extended family that worked, and her job supported her partner.

    What wasted lives (except for her, of course).
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    No news of Black Rook then?

    Shame. He was an articulate poster. I do hope he didn't lose his shirt.

    Yes, he was an excellent poster, one of the most perceptive.

    His valedictory post was here:

    http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/1635345#Comment_1635345
    Thank you Richard. I didn't see that.

    What an excellent post. One has to wish her well for that, and all the other thoughtful contributions.

    She was of course in good company in calling the election wrong. (Ahem.) She did at least only have to suffer mild embarrassment. I had to cough up 500 quid for a friend, having refused to put 50 on a Hung Parliament at 10/1 for them.

    Some of us never learn.
    She was indeed great, but what's the evidence that she was a she?
    Refers to a husband in her post. Not conclusive, obviously, but odds on.

    Not that it matters.
    No of course not, just curious.
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    edited August 2017

    Bloody French and their stupid language.

    Domino’s Pizza Enterprises Ltd. thought its online delivery platform could be the pièce de résistance of a strategy to fire up sales in France.

    Turns out, the system—used in English-speaking countries such as Australia and New Zealand—had problems dealing with apostrophes, commonly found in French addresses and locations like the Rue de l’Université in Paris. It was also challenged by French slang, resulting in hungry diners being told delivery wasn’t available where they were.

    Investors found the confusion hard to stomach on Tuesday when the Sydney-listed company, which licenses the brand from U.S.-based Domino’s Pizza Inc., DPZ 0.54% blamed sluggish performance in France for a lower-than-expected annual profit. Shares fell nearly 19% by late afternoon, wiping more than 800 million Australian dollars (US$628 million) off its market value.


    https://www.wsj.com/articles/doh-dominos-pizza-delivery-struggles-with-apostrophes-in-france-1502780139?mod=e2fb

    Since when was that an apostrophe above the e? That's an e-acute accent not an apostrophe.
    The one in the de l' perhaps?

    The sameday courier company I use at work has a database which can't cope with apostrophes in the Royal Mail PAF, they end up as ' + String.fromCharCode(39) + ' .
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,314

    TOPPING said:

    Bloody French and their stupid language.

    Domino’s Pizza Enterprises Ltd. thought its online delivery platform could be the pièce de résistance of a strategy to fire up sales in France.

    Turns out, the system—used in English-speaking countries such as Australia and New Zealand—had problems dealing with apostrophes

    Maybe @TOPPING could help Domino's?
    If I say extra pineapple will I get banned?
    When eating pineapple on pizza do your discussions turn to how bad Radiohead are?

    If so, you're doomed.
    Radiohead? Love them. What a band. My favourite. Yes Sirree.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2017
    Talking of crap technology, after I linked to bbc crap iPlayer there is going to be even more pissed. They have working on something similar to this for a while but their attempted solution is nowhere near as good as this.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4791856/Snapchat-tests-Crowd-Surf-stitches-snaps.html
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    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    No news of Black Rook then?

    Shame. He was an articulate poster. I do hope he didn't lose his shirt.

    Yes, he was an excellent poster, one of the most perceptive.

    His valedictory post was here:

    http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/1635345#Comment_1635345
    Thank you Richard. I didn't see that.

    What an excellent post. One has to wish her well for that, and all the other thoughtful contributions.

    She was of course in good company in calling the election wrong. (Ahem.) She did at least only have to suffer mild embarrassment. I had to cough up 500 quid for a friend, having refused to put 50 on a Hung Parliament at 10/1 for them.

    Some of us never learn.
    She was indeed great, but what's the evidence that she was a she?
    Refers to a husband in her post. Not conclusive, obviously, but odds on.

    Not that it matters.
    No of course not, just curious.
    I didn't realise myself until today, in which case it's a double loss. We have too few female posters as it is.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    edited August 2017

    On topic, here's another stat that upsets the Maybots.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/873978710038388737

    Though May still won 318 seats in her first general election as leader to Cameron's 306
  • Options

    Bloody French and their stupid language.

    Domino’s Pizza Enterprises Ltd. thought its online delivery platform could be the pièce de résistance of a strategy to fire up sales in France.

    Turns out, the system—used in English-speaking countries such as Australia and New Zealand—had problems dealing with apostrophes, commonly found in French addresses and locations like the Rue de l’Université in Paris.

    I don't suppose Domino's deliver much in Bishop's Stortford or King's Lynn.
    I have an anecdote about Domino's. Last week I was forced to spend half an hour in a local supermarket whilst they found a staff member who had a clue. In the meantime, I chatted to a young assistant. She told me that she had an older brother in his early twenties who did very little and spent all his money on phones, his moped and ... pizza. She and their mum cleaned out his room, and two weeks later they found a pile of eighteen Domino's boxes in it.

    That's eighteen boxes in two weeks.

    I asked where he got his money from, and she just shrugged.

    It's hardly a depressed area, and there are lots of opportunities. She also said that she was the only one in her extended family that worked, and her job supported her partner.

    What wasted lives (except for her, of course).
    I never understand the attraction of domino's, ridiculously overpriced and pretty crappy pizza.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    edited August 2017

    GIN1138 said:

    On topic, here's another stat that upsets the Maybots.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/873978710038388737

    The election was back for May and the Tories. We get it.

    Time for the PB editorial narrative to move on perhaps?
    Not really, it's one of the few active betting markets, Mrs May's crapness and when she goes.

    Oddly none of the Tories complained when Mike and myself did regular threads on Ed's crapness or Mike did lots of threads on Gordon Brown's crapness.
    Please can we have Gordon Brown's crapness compared to today's crapness?
    I begin a stint as editor of PB in three weeks time, you'll be delighted to know that my stint coincides with the tenth anniversary of Siôn Simon's 'Shortly there will be an election, in which Labour will increase its majority' piece.

    So yes, there will be a few comparison's with Gordon Brown coming up, meanwhile here's a piece comparing Gordon Brown and Theresa May I wrote last month.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/07/13/if-or-when-theresa-may-is-replaced-her-successor-shouldnt-hold-a-snap-election/
    The history books will always show May got 42% in her only general election as leader, Brown got 29% in his
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    I didn't realise myself until today, in which case it's a double loss. We have too few female posters as it is.

    Well, if you didn't realise, then how do you know we have too few? ;-)

    I'm sure JackW commends you for your own personal efforts in this regard too.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,711
    I expect that's on account of the huge trade deficit the EU has with us in goods....
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,079

    I expect that's on account of the huge trade deficit the EU has with us in goods....

    https://twitter.com/MichelBarnier/status/897422108376141824
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Isn't it a relief that the US has no need to learn from its history and so can safely forget it?
  • Options

    Bloody French and their stupid language.

    Domino’s Pizza Enterprises Ltd. thought its online delivery platform could be the pièce de résistance of a strategy to fire up sales in France.

    Turns out, the system—used in English-speaking countries such as Australia and New Zealand—had problems dealing with apostrophes, commonly found in French addresses and locations like the Rue de l’Université in Paris. It was also challenged by French slang, resulting in hungry diners being told delivery wasn’t available where they were.

    Investors found the confusion hard to stomach on Tuesday when the Sydney-listed company, which licenses the brand from U.S.-based Domino’s Pizza Inc., DPZ 0.54% blamed sluggish performance in France for a lower-than-expected annual profit. Shares fell nearly 19% by late afternoon, wiping more than 800 million Australian dollars (US$628 million) off its market value.


    https://www.wsj.com/articles/doh-dominos-pizza-delivery-struggles-with-apostrophes-in-france-1502780139?mod=e2fb

    Since when was that an apostrophe above the e? That's an e-acute accent not an apostrophe.
    The one in the de l' perhaps?

    The sameday courier company I use at work has a database which can't cope with apostrophes in the Royal Mail PAF, they end up as ' + String.fromCharCode(39) + ' .
    Possible but I assumed it was the é in Rue de l’Université that it was struggling with.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,864
    HYUFD said:


    Though May still won 318 seats in her first general election as leader to Cameron's 306

    Blair won 419 in his first election - the Devil can quote the scriptures to make a point and anyone can use figures and statistics to tell the story they want told.

    If you and other Conservative activists and members seriously want me to believe Theresa May called the election in the expectation of coming out of it having to go cap in hand to Arlene Foster to remain in Downing Street, then you are as deluded as I believe you to be.

    She called an election expecting to win and win big. I can only assume her advisers, the Conservative Party and a host of others all told her the same thing - Corbyn was hated, she was popular, the polling evidence showed all of this. Focus the campaign on the strongest asset - you - and a landslide will ensue.

    Her initial speech/comment outside No.10 on the Friday morning was without doubt one of the worst statements I have ever heard from any politician (and I'm a Lib Dem so I've heard some right clangers in my time). Her total inability to empathise with people, her lack of public warmth and her failure to recognise or even comprehend what had happened served only to confirm her complete unsuitability for the job in stark contrast to John Major whose departing speech was a tour de force in comparison (and he'd lost by 160).
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,711
    New customs proposals laid out by Government in new paper on future relationship with the EU

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-customs-proposals-laid-out-by-government-in-new-paper-on-future-relationship-with-the-eu
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,721
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    Though May still won 318 seats in her first general election as leader to Cameron's 306

    Blair won 419 in his first election - the Devil can quote the scriptures to make a point and anyone can use figures and statistics to tell the story they want told.

    If you and other Conservative activists and members seriously want me to believe Theresa May called the election in the expectation of coming out of it having to go cap in hand to Arlene Foster to remain in Downing Street, then you are as deluded as I believe you to be.

    She called an election expecting to win and win big. I can only assume her advisers, the Conservative Party and a host of others all told her the same thing - Corbyn was hated, she was popular, the polling evidence showed all of this. Focus the campaign on the strongest asset - you - and a landslide will ensue.

    Her initial speech/comment outside No.10 on the Friday morning was without doubt one of the worst statements I have ever heard from any politician (and I'm a Lib Dem so I've heard some right clangers in my time). Her total inability to empathise with people, her lack of public warmth and her failure to recognise or even comprehend what had happened served only to confirm her complete unsuitability for the job in stark contrast to John Major whose departing speech was a tour de force in comparison (and he'd lost by 160).
    Yes, of course you're right, "She called an election expecting to win and win big" and thereby 'Crush the Saboteurs'.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Scott_P said:
    I told you DD was on the right lines.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,711

    I expect that's on account of the huge trade deficit the EU has with us in goods....

    https://twitter.com/MichelBarnier/status/897422108376141824
    The border between Northern Ireland and Ireland is the UK’s only land border. We must avoid a return to a hard border, and trade and everyday movements across the land border must be protected as part of the UK-EU deal. The Government welcomes the clear commitment made in the European Council’s negotiating guidelines and the European Commission’s directives to work with us on “ exible and imaginative” solutions to achieve this. Ahead of those discussions, this paper includes proposals that are rst steps to meet our objective of trade across that land border being as seamless and frictionless as possible, but further steps will be necessary.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/637748/Future_customs_arrangements_-_a_future_partnership_paper.pdf
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    Scott_P said:
    I told you DD was on the right lines.
    Is that the first time in PB history that Scott'n'paste has approvingly retweeted an SNP leader's comment?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,079

    New customs proposals laid out by Government in new paper on future relationship with the EU

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-customs-proposals-laid-out-by-government-in-new-paper-on-future-relationship-with-the-eu

    "...without any further facilitations or agreements, the UK would treat trade with the EU as it currently treats trade with non-EU countries. Customs duty and import VAT would be due on EU imports. Traders would need to be registered. Traders exporting to the EU would have to submit an export declaration, and certain goods may require an export licence. The EU would also apply the customs rules and VAT to imports from the UK that it applies to non-EU countries. The Government is actively considering ways in which to mitigate the impacts of such a scenario."
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Is that the first time in PB history that Scott'n'paste has approvingly retweeted an SNP leader's comment?

    Not a retweet.

    I await the first time in history one of my fans gets that right...
  • Options
    This seems to be a rather arbitrary measure to condemn Theresa May. The core of the matter is that she was facing a Labour Leader who is far more willing to tell left wing voters they can have their cake and eat it than either Gordon Brown or Ed Miliband was. As a result, he scooped up a much larger share of left wing voters. The problem for Corbyn is he will be given actual scrutiny five years and the ridiculousness of his positions will reveal themselves. As long as the Conservatives keep their head down and govern effectively, we can maintain our 42% and win another majority.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,079

    The Government welcomes the clear commitment made in the European Council’s negotiating guidelines and the European Commission’s directives to work with us on “ exible and imaginative” solutions to achieve this.

    Flexible, but not that flexible:

    The Government has made clear that the answer to avoiding a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland cannot be to impose a new customs border between Northern Ireland and Great Britain.

    This in a paper that spends most of its time suggesting that the EU-UK boundary can easily be seamless. If they believe their own rhetoric, putting that boundary in the Irish sea will not do anyone any harm.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    As long as the Conservatives keep their head down and govern effectively

    Too late...
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,864


    I told you DD was on the right lines.

    No, that was your interpretation and spin of a document.

    I'd prefer to read the proposal for myself and come to my own conclusion. Your analysis, in all fairness, was reasonable in terms of expectation but I'd simply like to make up my own mind if that's okay.

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    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    Though May still won 318 seats in her first general election as leader to Cameron's 306

    Blair won 419 in his first election - the Devil can quote the scriptures to make a point and anyone can use figures and statistics to tell the story they want told.

    If you and other Conservative activists and members seriously want me to believe Theresa May called the election in the expectation of coming out of it having to go cap in hand to Arlene Foster to remain in Downing Street, then you are as deluded as I believe you to be.

    She called an election expecting to win and win big. I can only assume her advisers, the Conservative Party and a host of others all told her the same thing - Corbyn was hated, she was popular, the polling evidence showed all of this. Focus the campaign on the strongest asset - you - and a landslide will ensue.

    Her initial speech/comment outside No.10 on the Friday morning was without doubt one of the worst statements I have ever heard from any politician (and I'm a Lib Dem so I've heard some right clangers in my time). Her total inability to empathise with people, her lack of public warmth and her failure to recognise or even comprehend what had happened served only to confirm her complete unsuitability for the job in stark contrast to John Major whose departing speech was a tour de force in comparison (and he'd lost by 160).
    She completely recognised what had happened. She came first, but only by a slim margin rather than the big margin that we were all hoping. She recognised the mistakes of the campaigns, admitted responsibility to the party and made changes to both her top team and her leadership style acknowledging that. Since then she has been very effective, had a great G8 and after allowing a period of debate, is now bringing her cabinet together again. The joint article by Liam Fox and Phil Hammond is testament to that.

    There are some people that will always castigate every politician supportive of enacting the will of the people on Brexit, but that is what it is. The important thing is to do the right thing and concentrate on the persuadable.
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    Scott_P said:

    As long as the Conservatives keep their head down and govern effectively

    Too late...
    I would have more time for discussion with someone that hasn't been implacably opposed to the Conservatives ever since the referendum result.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,711

    New customs proposals laid out by Government in new paper on future relationship with the EU

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-customs-proposals-laid-out-by-government-in-new-paper-on-future-relationship-with-the-eu

    "...without any further facilitations or agreements, the UK would treat trade with the EU as it currently treats trade with non-EU countries. Customs duty and import VAT would be due on EU imports. Traders would need to be registered. Traders exporting to the EU would have to submit an export declaration, and certain goods may require an export licence. The EU would also apply the customs rules and VAT to imports from the UK that it applies to non-EU countries. The Government is actively considering ways in which to mitigate the impacts of such a scenario."
    You missed a bit:

    Other EU Member States will also need to make contingency preparations to mitigate the risk of delays resulting from their own customs processes.
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    stevefstevef Posts: 1,044
    But the same principle applies to Labour. Although the Labour vote went up to 40%, Labour won only a few more seats than Gordon Brown in 2010 on 29%. The Tories were simply better at distributing their vote across marginal seats, and Labour piled up votes uselessly in seats it already held.
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    Scott_P said:
    The Evening Standard has become a rather embarrassing tool of being a mouthpiece for Osborne's political career. Last night had a laughable defence of the garden bridge, trying to claim that cancelling the project wouldn't save any money.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    I would have more time for discussion with someone that hasn't been implacably opposed to the Conservatives ever since the referendum result.

    I am not implacably opposed to conservatives, or even the Conservatives.

    I am implacably opposed to the Brexiteers, whatever badge they hide behind.
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    Scott_P said:

    I would have more time for discussion with someone that hasn't been implacably opposed to the Conservatives ever since the referendum result.

    I am not implacably opposed to conservatives, or even the Conservatives.

    I am implacably opposed to the Brexiteers, whatever badge they hide behind.
    Theresa May supported Remain. But she accepted the voice of the people and that makes you implacably opposed. There is simply no point in trying to reconcile the Remainer die-hards. You won't be happy with anything except resubmitting to Brussels so you will twist every event to damn those who won't do that.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,003
    FF43 said:



    That's the key problem. Also, with the possible exception of David Davis, none of the prominent Leavers are investing in Brexit and trying to make it work.

    That's because they don't want their fingerprints on the inevitable fuck up. Classic Boris.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    Scott_P said:

    I would have more time for discussion with someone that hasn't been implacably opposed to the Conservatives ever since the referendum result.

    I am not implacably opposed to conservatives, or even the Conservatives.

    I am implacably opposed to the Brexiteers, whatever badge they hide behind.
    So you are implacably opposed to 52% of the British population then?
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908

    Scott_P said:
    The Evening Standard has become a rather embarrassing tool of being a mouthpiece for Osborne's political career. Last night had a laughable defence of the garden bridge, trying to claim that cancelling the project wouldn't save any money.
    I don't really get the Garden Bridge thing... London has loads of tourists, hard to believe a garden bridge would be a massive draw on top of that already.

    Blatantly the taxpayer would have been on the hook for even more money than was planned when donations didn't arrive, and I can't see why we should prioritise this over something actually useful.

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    I didn't realise myself until today, in which case it's a double loss. We have too few female posters as it is.

    Well, if you didn't realise, then how do you know we have too few? ;-)

    I'm sure JackW commends you for your own personal efforts in this regard too.
    Young Jack is always most appreciative of all the efforts a girl might make, TP.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    she accepted the voice of the people

    She thought (wrongly) that embracing Hard brexit would make her invincible.

    Instead it crushed her, just as Boris hitched himself to the same wagon for the same prize, and also came a cropper.

    I am opposed to that sort of opportunism.
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    AllanAllan Posts: 262
    Dura_Ace said:

    FF43 said:



    That's the key problem. Also, with the possible exception of David Davis, none of the prominent Leavers are investing in Brexit and trying to make it work.

    That's because they don't want their fingerprints on the inevitable fuck up. Classic Boris.
    Many of the prominent Leavers have been excluded from Government roles in this.
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    The Government welcomes the clear commitment made in the European Council’s negotiating guidelines and the European Commission’s directives to work with us on “ exible and imaginative” solutions to achieve this.

    Flexible, but not that flexible:

    The Government has made clear that the answer to avoiding a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland cannot be to impose a new customs border between Northern Ireland and Great Britain.

    This in a paper that spends most of its time suggesting that the EU-UK boundary can easily be seamless. If they believe their own rhetoric, putting that boundary in the Irish sea will not do anyone any harm.
    Except that the UK is a single country. That would be like putting the boundary between Liverpool and Manchester, albeit that is something some might suggest is a good idea.
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    AllanAllan Posts: 262

    Scott_P said:

    I would have more time for discussion with someone that hasn't been implacably opposed to the Conservatives ever since the referendum result.

    I am not implacably opposed to conservatives, or even the Conservatives.

    I am implacably opposed to the Brexiteers, whatever badge they hide behind.
    Theresa May supported Remain. But she accepted the voice of the people and that makes you implacably opposed. There is simply no point in trying to reconcile the Remainer die-hards. You won't be happy with anything except resubmitting to Brussels so you will twist every event to damn those who won't do that.
    Remainer die-hards. The new group of people where we can "hear the sound of flapping white coats"?
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,726
    edited August 2017
    stodge said:


    I told you DD was on the right lines.

    No, that was your interpretation and spin of a document.

    I'd prefer to read the proposal for myself and come to my own conclusion. Your analysis, in all fairness, was reasonable in terms of expectation but I'd simply like to make up my own mind if that's okay.

    You can download the proposal here. It's a bit more interesting than I expected. If we can assume the "new customs partnership with the EU" is a makeweight and won't go anywhere, that just leaves "a highly streamlined customs arrangement", which is a set of platitudes and doesn't address the issue of not having tariff free trade. On the other hand, the document (carefully, I presume) doesn't exclude the possibility of "establishing an independent international trade policy" from within a customs union with the EU. Put together I think we will probably go for a customs union arrangement. The government just isn't admitting yet, including possibly to themselves.

    ... which therefore would mean the government's position on customs is that we will give into the EU, but not just yet.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    This bit from the government's paper looks very good (para 35):

    we would look to reduce the time and costs of complying with customs administrative
    requirements through exploring the viability of unilateral measures, primarily in respect of
    imports, for example:

    - simplifications for business, such as self-assessment to allow traders to calculate their
    own customs duties and aggregate their customs declarations
    ;
This discussion has been closed.