There's no such thing as a 'decent' Brexit. The whole shebang was based on lies and fears that were deliberately cooked up and unfounded. There never was £350 million. The Turks were never invading. The whole thing was a nonsense designed to appeal to people's greed and fears and among the less educated it worked. The 17,000,000 Remainers will never accept it and the Leavers when they finally understand they've been conned will rebel.
Theresa needs to be grown up show leadership and call it off. Another Referendum if necessary but in preference a letter to the EU apologising for wasting everyone's time and begging to be reinstated on existing terms. Otherwise When the shit hits the fan on this Brexit there will be riots and demonstrations the like of which we haven't seen. They'll make the Days of Danny Cohn Bendit Tariq Ali and the '68 riots at the Sorbonne look like a pillow fight.
You and your lot would see the death of democracy in this country. Instability may be the price we pay for remaining a democracy, with leaders accountable to us, instead of commissioners accountable to Brussells.
I'd take a few riots over a thousand years of a boot stomping on a human face, any day.
I seem to recollect elections for Members of a European Parliament. Trouble was the last time voted we elected the worst parcel of rogues since the ones Rabbie Burns wrote about.
There's no such thing as a 'decent' Brexit. The whole shebang was based on lies and fears that were deliberately cooked up and unfounded. There never was £350 million. The Turks were never invading. The whole thing was a nonsense designed to appeal to people's greed and fears and among the less educated it worked. The 17,000,000 Remainers will never accept it and the Leavers when they finally understand they've been conned will rebel.
Theresa needs to be grown up show leadership and call it off. Another Referendum if necessary but in preference a letter to the EU apologising for wasting everyone's time and begging to be reinstated on existing terms. Otherwise When the shit hits the fan on this Brexit there will be riots and demonstrations the like of which we haven't seen. They'll make the Days of Danny Cohn Bendit Tariq Ali and the '68 riots at the Sorbonne look like a pillow fight.
And of course you will sit back and enjoy it all whilst sipping champagne in your little place in Southern France.
I am generally in favour of freedom of movement but hopefully we will make an exception for you and your fellow travellers.
Or you.
Since I live and work in the UK rather than swanning around Southern France moaning about how terrible my home country is, it would probably not apply.
There's no such thing as a 'decent' Brexit. The whole shebang was based on lies and fears that were deliberately cooked up and unfounded. There never was £350 million. The Turks were never invading. The whole thing was a nonsense designed to appeal to people's greed and fears and among the less educated it worked. The 17,000,000 Remainers will never accept it and the Leavers when they finally understand they've been conned will rebel.
Theresa needs to be grown up show leadership and call it off. Another Referendum if necessary but in preference a letter to the EU apologising for wasting everyone's time and begging to be reinstated on existing terms. Otherwise When the shit hits the fan on this Brexit there will be riots and demonstrations the like of which we haven't seen. They'll make the Days of Danny Cohn Bendit Tariq Ali and the '68 riots at the Sorbonne look like a pillow fight.
That's democracy Rog!
Just imagine how you'd be feeling if we had a referendum on Gay Marriage, 52% voted for it but because a few of the 48 against it wouldnt shut up, the govt decided it would be too much trouble so binned it before one same sex couple were wed.
Or you, for that matter.
Looks like Topping's very limited brain power has been overwhelmed by events. I would suggest a reboot but it is probably not worth. Just switch him off and scrap him.
Disgraceful speeches being made at protest against may, spreading more "fake news" about reasons for tower fire.
Some of the posters at the demos yesterday had "talking points" on them that have already been debunked. Some absolute BS is being spread and accepted as fact by a huge number of people, the stuff about a D-notice being one example.
The speech I just heard said the cladding was only put on because the rich demanded the tower didn't spoil their view, that the refurbishment was done on the cheap due to cuts and generally it was all may's fault.
Although we don't know the detailed reasons for the tradegy, we do know the refurbishment was done for the residents and the budget was not cheap.
There was a clause in the planning application which described how the refurbishment would also provide a good environment (let's call it views) for the local conservation area.
That was one point out of 20-odd.
And isnt that standard for any planning application. You can't put up anything saying well we are going to ruin everybodies elses views...So we will take steps to minimise this.
But the speech was claiming this was the only reason. And if the daily mails investigation is true, all documentation submitted to the authorities said they would use the fire resistant cladding, it was a subcontractor who then used a different product.
There's no such thing as a 'decent' Brexit. The whole shebang was based on lies and fears that were deliberately cooked up and unfounded. There never was £350 million. The Turks were never invading. The whole thing was a nonsense designed to appeal to people's greed and fears and among the less educated it worked. The 17,000,000 Remainers will never accept it and the Leavers when they finally understand they've been conned will rebel.
Theresa needs to be grown up show leadership and call it off. Another Referendum if necessary but in preference a letter to the EU apologising for wasting everyone's time and begging to be reinstated on existing terms. Otherwise When the shit hits the fan on this Brexit there will be riots and demonstrations the like of which we haven't seen. They'll make the Days of Danny Cohn Bendit Tariq Ali and the '68 riots at the Sorbonne look like a pillow fight.
You and your lot would see the death of democracy in this country. Instability may be the price we pay for remaining a democracy, with leaders accountable to us, instead of commissioners accountable to Brussells.
I'd take a few riots over a thousand years of a boot stomping on a human face, any day.
Calm down. Don't forget we were always sovereign. It just didn't feel like it sometimes. To you.
We already established long ago you didn't understand the meaning of the word so go back to your computer games Topping and leave discussions to the adults. .
There's no such thing as a 'decent' Brexit. The whole shebang was based on lies and fears that were deliberately cooked up and unfounded. There never was £350 million. The Turks were never invading. The whole thing was a nonsense designed to appeal to people's greed and fears and among the less educated it worked. The 17,000,000 Remainers will never accept it and the Leavers when they finally understand they've been conned will rebel.
Theresa needs to be grown up show leadership and call it off. Another Referendum if necessary but in preference a letter to the EU apologising for wasting everyone's time and begging to be reinstated on existing terms. Otherwise When the shit hits the fan on this Brexit there will be riots and demonstrations the like of which we haven't seen. They'll make the Days of Danny Cohn Bendit Tariq Ali and the '68 riots at the Sorbonne look like a pillow fight.
That's democracy Rog!
Just imagine how you'd be feeling if we had a referendum on Gay Marriage, 52% voted for it but because a few of the 48 against it wouldnt shut up, the govt decided it would be too much trouble so binned it before one same sex couple were wed.
Or you, for that matter.
Looks like Topping's very limited brain power has been overwhelmed by events. I would suggest a reboot but it is probably not worth. Just switch him off and scrap him.
No Richard not at all. Just reminded folks how the Arch Brexiter told you (and he was right) that we have always been sovereign, just that it didn't feel like it sometimes. He neglected to add the obvious "to those with limited intellectual capabilities", so I will do so now.
There's no such thing as a 'decent' Brexit. The whole shebang was based on lies and fears that were deliberately cooked up and unfounded. There never was £350 million. The Turks were never invading. The whole thing was a nonsense designed to appeal to people's greed and fears and among the less educated it worked. The 17,000,000 Remainers will never accept it and the Leavers when they finally understand they've been conned will rebel.
Theresa needs to be grown up show leadership and call it off. Another Referendum if necessary but in preference a letter to the EU apologising for wasting everyone's time and begging to be reinstated on existing terms. Otherwise When the shit hits the fan on this Brexit there will be riots and demonstrations the like of which we haven't seen. They'll make the Days of Danny Cohn Bendit Tariq Ali and the '68 riots at the Sorbonne look like a pillow fight.
That's democracy Rog!
Just imagine how you'd be feeling if we had a referendum on Gay Marriage, 52% voted for it but because a few of the 48 against it wouldnt shut up, the govt decided it would be too much trouble so binned it before one same sex couple were wed.
The Tories to stfu and get on with the business of negotiating a Brexit that works for the country as a whole and not just the tory party; from a minority position.
Or
Call the whole thing off and recognise the simple fact that EU membership was entirely in our interests. Boris Johnson to announce it by driving a bus around all 650 constituencies with the slogan. I'm sorry, we're better off in.
I don't want Labour or the LibDems anywhere near this. It's a Tory car crash and I want the people who caused it to be clearly identifiable. Liars, charlatans and outright fuckwits. You deserve all that's coming to you.
Been out and about enjoying a beautiful Saturday afternoon but not surprised to come on here and find the usual parallel universe bubble of hysteria. So the previous thread suggests the government should resign and give the keys to No.10 to crackpot Corbyn and his Red Shirts, who won 50 fewer seats in the GE held just one week ago? And now the PM should stand down because Matthew Parris says so. Facing a defeat on the scale of 1997? The Tories won nearly 14 million votes and the most seats just last week and this Grenfell hysteria won't last for ever. The media is out to get May but will get bored soon enough, it always has something else to move on to. This sort of witch hunt is unsightly and worse - inciting civil strife. A few people ought to be ashamed of themselves and a few people on here need to calm down and leave the house for some fresh air.
Well said. No way can we give the BBC and the Labour-SWP coalition the satisfaction. We govern for as much of a full term as we can, and then if we lose, we lose. Even Attlee's landslide 1945 majority disappeared after a full term of real socialism.
There is no more a Labour-SWP coalition than a Tory-BNP Coalition. Talking rubbish hasn't worked well so far so why not try something a bit more positive and uplifting to attract voters.
The speech I just heard said the cladding was only put on because the rich demanded the tower didn't spoil their view, that the refurbishment was done on the cheap due to cuts and generally it was all may's fault.
Although we don't know the detailed reasons for the tradegy, we do know the refurbishment was done for the residents and the budget was not cheap.
Yeah that's BS as well, the project brief for the over-cladding talks mainly about energy loss reduction, along with replacing the windows which had reached the end of their design life, as part of an overall scheme to upgrade the heating in the tower. Appearance was a secondary and relatively minor concern.
Owen Jones joined the demonstration straight from the construction site where he sweats his guts out for an insulting pittance. He didn't have time to change.
The Tories to stfu and get on with the business of negotiating a Brexit that works for the country as a whole and not just the tory party; from a minority position.
Or
Call the whole thing off and recognise the simple fact that EU membership was entirely in our interests. Boris Johnson to announce it by driving a bus around all 650 constituencies with the slogan. I'm sorry, we're better off in.
I don't want Labour or the LibDems anywhere near this. It's a Tory car crash and I want the people who caused it to be clearly identifiable. Liars, charlatans and outright fuckwits. You deserve all that's coming to you.
'cept it will be those who can least afford it who will suffer. Not the Cons, not Lab if they somehow form a government. So it has got to be your first point.
The speech I just heard said the cladding was only put on because the rich demanded the tower didn't spoil their view, that the refurbishment was done on the cheap due to cuts and generally it was all may's fault.
Although we don't know the detailed reasons for the tradegy, we do know the refurbishment was done for the residents and the budget was not cheap.
Yeah that's BS as well, the project brief for the over-cladding talks mainly about energy loss reduction, along with replacing the windows which had reached the end of their design life, as part of an overall scheme to upgrade the heating in the tower. Appearance was a secondary and relatively minor concern.
It is just whipping up us vs them, rich vs poor out of a terrible tradegy.
There's no such thing as a 'decent' Brexit. The whole shebang was based on lies and fears that were deliberately cooked up and unfounded. There never was £350 million. The Turks were never invading. The whole thing was a nonsense designed to appeal to people's greed and fears and among the less educated it worked. The 17,000,000 Remainers will never accept it and the Leavers when they finally understand they've been conned will rebel.
Theresa needs to be grown up show leadership and call it off. Another Referendum if necessary but in preference a letter to the EU apologising for wasting everyone's time and begging to be reinstated on existing terms. Otherwise When the shit hits the fan on this Brexit there will be riots and demonstrations the like of which we haven't seen. They'll make the Days of Danny Cohn Bendit Tariq Ali and the '68 riots at the Sorbonne look like a pillow fight.
That's democracy Rog!
Just imagine how you'd be feeling if we had a referendum on Gay Marriage, 52% voted for it but because a few of the 48 against it wouldnt shut up, the govt decided it would be too much trouble so binned it before one same sex couple were wed.
Or you, for that matter.
Looks like Topping's very limited brain power has been overwhelmed by events. I would suggest a reboot but it is probably not worth. Just switch him off and scrap him.
No Richard not at all. Just reminded folks how the Arch Brexiter told you (and he was right) that we have always been sovereign, just that it didn't feel like it sometimes. He neglected to add the obvious "to those with limited intellectual capabilities", so I will do so now.
Nope he was and is wrong. As are you. Try looking in a dictionary. That is a book that explains what words mean in case you didn't know.
I will help you:
"Sovereignty: supreme and independent power or authority in government as possessed or claimed by a state or community."
We had this argument a few months back and you got trounced and had to start claiming the word meant something other than it did. I would have thought you would have learnt your lesson by now but clearly you have not. Clearly you remain dumber than a bag of rocks.
There's no such thing as a 'decent' Brexit. The whole shebang was based on lies and fears that were deliberately cooked up and unfounded. There never was £350 million. The Turks were never invading. The whole thing was a nonsense designed to appeal to people's greed and fears and among the less educated it worked. The 17,000,000 Remainers will never accept it and the Leavers when they finally understand they've been conned will rebel.
Theresa needs to be grown up show leadership and call it off. Another Referendum if necessary but in preference a letter to the EU apologising for wasting everyone's time and begging to be reinstated on existing terms. Otherwise When the shit hits the fan on this Brexit there will be riots and demonstrations the like of which we haven't seen. They'll make the Days of Danny Cohn Bendit Tariq Ali and the '68 riots at the Sorbonne look like a pillow fight.
And of course you will sit back and enjoy it all whilst sipping champagne in your little place in Southern France.
I am generally in favour of freedom of movement but hopefully we will make an exception for you and your fellow travellers.
I think we can see that sometimes Internet discussions can play a - shall we say? - therapeutic role in our society. They can provide an outlet for the frustrations of some people who might otherwise be, at best, hurling obscenities at passers by.
I don't think that we have previously had a PM with insulin dependent diabetes, and I am beginning to think that the job (in the modern relentless 24/7 era) is incompatible with the the condition; with the endless international travel, erratic hours, and incredible stress, I would fear for her health. I don't wish to be a prophet of doom, but if she tries to carry on in the present tsunami of crises, I doubt that she will last till August
I have sympathy regarding her condition.I always wondered why she wanted the job.However she must have thought it was doable .Looking close up at another doing the job and the reality is a different thing.
The boundary revision is dead because based on this month's election result they are at best neutral for the Conservatives and perhaps slightly negative . The Conservatives will suddenly discover reasons for not proceeding perhaps even the same ones they used to justify the review in the first place . Turkeys do not vote for Xmas .
Ignoring the changes in seat numbers, is there any legal time limit before a review has to take place based on the current seat numbers?
The law now requires a review to a timetable fixed to co-ordinate with a 2015 GE working in five year intervals as per the FTPA. So the snap GE has overridden the timetable, meaning that the Act will need revising to sync the timescales in any event. However whether or not a review by the Commission leads to actual new boundaries is entirely up to Parliament.
The most like course of action, assuming things settle down and it looks as if the minority government will last, is to re-start another review due to conclude around 2010/1, before the next GE. My bet is that this will be on 650 seats and more flexible criteria.
I don't think that we have previously had a PM with insulin dependent diabetes, and I am beginning to think that the job (in the modern relentless 24/7 era) is incompatible with the the condition; with the endless international travel, erratic hours, and incredible stress, I would fear for her health. I don't wish to be a prophet of doom, but if she tries to carry on in the present tsunami of crises, I doubt that she will last till August
I have sympathy regarding her condition.I always wondered why she wanted the job.However she must have thought it was doable .Looking close up at another doing the job and the reality is a different thing.
Gordon was the same. He went from a big ministerial job, but one where it was about really planning for two big set pieces per year, to a day in day out task. All of a sudden reading that report on the effects of tweaking a tax that could be read tomorrow is replaced by you must make a decision now and sign it off.
And we all saw the pictures of piles of stuff he got backlogged with.
From all the reports of cameron, this was something he was very good at. Always read his red box, got everything that needed a decision / signing off done without delay.
Mr. glw, the Conservatives and media need to point out the rampant bullshittery.
The trouble is the sort of person who thinks there is a D-notice to stop the death toll being revealed is the sort of person who thinks "they would say that, what are they hiding". They will not believe the simpler explanation that we live in a country where we are not obliged to tell the authorities where we are sleeping and so nobody really knows who was in the building at the time of the fire. This is not like a ship sinking or a plane crashing where there is a passenger manifest.
There's no such thing as a 'decent' Brexit. The whole shebang was based on lies and fears that were deliberately cooked up and unfounded. There never was £350 million. The Turks were never invading. The whole thing was a nonsense designed to appeal to people's greed and fears and among the less educated it worked. The 17,000,000 Remainers will never accept it and the Leavers when they finally understand they've been conned will rebel.
Theresa needs to be grown up show leadership and call it off. Another Referendum if necessary but in preference a letter to the EU apologising for wasting everyone's time and begging to be reinstated on existing terms. Otherwise When the shit hits the fan on this Brexit there will be riots and demonstrations the like of which we haven't seen. They'll make the Days of Danny Cohn Bendit Tariq Ali and the '68 riots at the Sorbonne look like a pillow fight.
That's democracy Rog!
Just imagine how you'd be feeling if we had a referendum on Gay Marriage, 52% voted for it but because a few of the 48 against it wouldnt shut up, the govt decided it would be too much trouble so binned it before one same sex couple were wed.
Or you, for that matter.
Looks like Topping's very limited brain power has been overwhelmed by events. I would suggest a reboot but it is probably not worth. Just switch him off and scrap him.
No Richard not at all. Just reminded folks how the Arch Brexiter told you (and he was right) that we have always been sovereign, just that it didn't feel like it sometimes. He neglected to add the obvious "to those with limited intellectual capabilities", so I will do so now.
Nope he was and is wrong. As are you. Try looking in a dictionary. That is a book that explains what words mean in case you didn't know.
I will help you:
"Sovereignty: supreme and independent power or authority in government as possessed or claimed by a state or community."
We had this argument a few months back and you got trounced and had to start claiming the word meant something other than it did. I would have thought you would have learnt your lesson by now but clearly you have not. Clearly you remain dumber than a bag of rocks.
No Richard only in your wildest fantasies did you ever win an argument with me.
We as a sovereign nation decided to join an association of nations for mutual benefit.
It's really not that complicated. For reasonably intelligent people. For morons, of course, it's near-unfathomable.
There's no such thing as a 'decent' Brexit. The whole shebang was based on lies and fears that were deliberately cooked up and unfounded. There never was £350 million. The Turks were never invading. The whole thing was a nonsense designed to appeal to people's greed and fears and among the less educated it worked. The 17,000,000 Remainers will never accept it and the Leavers when they finally understand they've been conned will rebel.
Theresa needs to be grown up show leadership and call it off. Another Referendum if necessary but in preference a letter to the EU apologising for wasting everyone's time and begging to be reinstated on existing terms. Otherwise When the shit hits the fan on this Brexit there will be riots and demonstrations the like of which we haven't seen. They'll make the Days of Danny Cohn Bendit Tariq Ali and the '68 riots at the Sorbonne look like a pillow fight.
That's democracy Rog!
Just imagine how you'd be feeling if we had a referendum on Gay Marriage, 52% voted for it but because a few of the 48 against it wouldnt shut up, the govt decided it would be too much trouble so binned it before one same sex couple were wed.
False analogy. You either allow SSM marriage or you don't there is no room for compromise. There is more than one form of Brexit and by-and-large we are now discussing what type of Brexit we get.
The majority are arguing for a soft Brexit that is a reasonable compromise between the 52% and the 48% given that it is clearly what numbers of the 52% want it as well.
There's no such thing as a 'decent' Brexit. The whole shebang was based on lies and fears that were deliberately cooked up and unfounded. There never was £350 million. The Turks were never invading. The whole thing was a nonsense designed to appeal to people's greed and fears and among the less educated it worked. The 17,000,000 Remainers will never accept it and the Leavers when they finally understand they've been conned will rebel.
Theresa needs to be grown up show leadership and call it off. Another Referendum if necessary but in preference a letter to the EU apologising for wasting everyone's time and begging to be reinstated on existing terms. Otherwise When the shit hits the fan on this Brexit there will be riots and demonstrations the like of which we haven't seen. They'll make the Days of Danny Cohn Bendit Tariq Ali and the '68 riots at the Sorbonne look like a pillow fight.
That's democracy Rog!
Just imagine how you'd be feeling if we had a referendum on Gay Marriage, 52% voted for it but because a few of the 48 against it wouldnt shut up, the govt decided it would be too much trouble so binned it before one same sex couple were wed.
False analogy. You either allow SSM marriage or you don't there is no room for compromise. There is more than one form of Brexit and by-and-large we are now discussing what type of Brexit we get.
The majority are arguing for a soft Brexit that is a reasonable compromise between the 52% and the 48% given that it is clearly what numbers of the 52% want it as well.
I'd have thought civil partnership was a form of compromise actually, but the post I responded to wanted us to beg to go back in the EU on the same terms as before, not soft Brexit which I am not against, so your response to me is v peculiar
Mr. Urquhart, aye, Cameron was good at delegation and letting ministers get on with things.
I always liken Cameron to one of these CEOs that are very good at running established brands and they are hired to steady a company and go from company to company as required. However they don't really live and breath the brand the way the original founders had, with a clear vision / drive to "change the world (in the space their brand exist)"
American Conservatives really are something in their capacity to come up with hilarious readings of elections in Europe and Britain. Only they could believe that the answer is to become religious nutters like them.
GOPers simply to have to understand is that many outside of America have no desire for their vision of a neo-liberal, highly socially conservative society.
And they'd be right to reject that awful vision of a society.
There's no such thing as a 'decent' Brexit. The whole shebang was based on lies and fears that were deliberately cooked up and unfounded. There never was £350 million. The Turks were never invading. The whole thing was a nonsense designed to appeal to people's greed and fears and among the less educated it worked. The 17,000,000 Remainers will never accept it and the Leavers when they finally understand they've been conned will rebel.
Theresa needs to be grown up show leadership and call it off. Another Referendum if necessary but in preference a letter to the EU apologising for wasting everyone's time and begging to be reinstated on existing terms. Otherwise When the shit hits the fan on this Brexit there will be riots and demonstrations the like of which we haven't seen. They'll make the Days of Danny Cohn Bendit Tariq Ali and the '68 riots at the Sorbonne look like a pillow fight.
And the consequence of those Sorbonne riots in 1968 were crushing right wing election victories:
There's no such thing as a 'decent' Brexit. The whole shebang was based on lies and fears that were deliberately cooked up and unfounded. There never was £350 million. The Turks were never invading. The whole thing was a nonsense designed to appeal to people's greed and fears and among the less educated it worked. The 17,000,000 Remainers will never accept it and the Leavers when they finally understand they've been conned will rebel.
Theresa needs to be grown up show leadership and call it off. Another Referendum if necessary but in preference a letter to the EU apologising for wasting everyone's time and begging to be reinstated on existing terms. Otherwise When the shit hits the fan on this Brexit there will be riots and demonstrations the like of which we haven't seen. They'll make the Days of Danny Cohn Bendit Tariq Ali and the '68 riots at the Sorbonne look like a pillow fight.
Never was a fuck more clustered than Brexit. But unless and until most people in Britain explicitly decide, nah, we're stuck with it. That's the power of democracy. It gives us the ability to wreck everything.
Our training instructor is an ex-firefighter and last night he went out with his ex-colleagues, several of whom were at Grenfell. From what they said, it looks like the deaths will be well into three figures. One of the big problems re numbers / identification is that apparently a lot of the flats are illegally sub-let so it is not entirely sure who was in there and there was probably overcrowding of flats. Absolute catastrophe.
In our group post-class the general consensus, from both Labour and Conservative supporters, was that May was being unfairly blamed for what was happening.
The way people are talking about is as if she lit the match and poured petrol over the place herself.
There's no such thing as a 'decent' Brexit. The whole shebang was based on lies and fears that were deliberately cooked up and unfounded. There never was £350 million. The Turks were never invading. The whole thing was a nonsense designed to appeal to people's greed and fears and among the less educated it worked. The 17,000,000 Remainers will never accept it and the Leavers when they finally understand they've been conned will rebel.
Theresa needs to be grown up show leadership and call it off. Another Referendum if necessary but in preference a letter to the EU apologising for wasting everyone's time and begging to be reinstated on existing terms. Otherwise When the shit hits the fan on this Brexit there will be riots and demonstrations the like of which we haven't seen. They'll make the Days of Danny Cohn Bendit Tariq Ali and the '68 riots at the Sorbonne look like a pillow fight.
That's democracy Rog!
Just imagine how you'd be feeling if we had a referendum on Gay Marriage, 52% voted for it but because a few of the 48 against it wouldnt shut up, the govt decided it would be too much trouble so binned it before one same sex couple were wed.
False analogy. You either allow SSM marriage or you don't there is no room for compromise. There is more than one form of Brexit and by-and-large we are now discussing what type of Brexit we get.
The majority are arguing for a soft Brexit that is a reasonable compromise between the 52% and the 48% given that it is clearly what numbers of the 52% want it as well.
I'd have thought civil partnership was a form of compromise actually, but the post I responded to wanted us to beg to go back in the EU on the same terms as before, not soft Brexit which I am not against, so your response to me is v peculiar
Fair enough but some people keep raising the straw-man of ignoring the result whereas, in the main, people are now discussing the type of Brexit we get.
Out of interest, if it did became evident a year or two down the line that opinion had moved against leaving the EU would you accept a second referendum or plough on based on the 52-48 result in 2015?
No Richard only in your wildest fantasies did you ever win an argument with me.
We as a sovereign nation decided to join an association of nations for mutual benefit.
It's really not that complicated. For reasonably intelligent people. For morons, of course, it's near-unfathomable.
The ECJ clearly does not agree with you:
"the member States have limited their sovereign rights, and albeit within limited fields, have created a body of law which binds both nationals and themselves".
This position has been stated and restated in many ECJ decisions.
It was also the position of Sir William Wade, one of the leading academic lawyers of the 20th Century who said that Parliamentary Sovereignty had been removed by our accession to the EEC/EU and its subsequent treaties. He used the term 'revolutionary' to refer to the transfer of sovereignty from the UK to the EU.
But if you know better than both the ECJ and one of our leading legal experts...
There's no such thing as a 'decent' Brexit. The whole shebang was based on lies and fears that were deliberately cooked up and unfounded. There never was £350 million. The Turks were never invading. The whole thing was a nonsense designed to appeal to people's greed and fears and among the less educated it worked. The 17,000,000 Remainers will never accept it and the Leavers when they finally understand they've been conned will rebel.
Theresa needs to be grown up show leadership and call it off. Another Referendum if necessary but in preference a letter to the EU apologising for wasting everyone's time and begging to be reinstated on existing terms. Otherwise When the shit hits the fan on this Brexit there will be riots and demonstrations the like of which we haven't seen. They'll make the Days of Danny Cohn Bendit Tariq Ali and the '68 riots at the Sorbonne look like a pillow fight.
You and your lot would see the death of democracy in this country. Instability may be the price we pay for remaining a democracy, with leaders accountable to us, instead of commissioners accountable to Brussells.
I'd take a few riots over a thousand years of a boot stomping on a human face, any day.
I seem to recollect elections for Members of a European Parliament. Trouble was the last time voted we elected the worst parcel of rogues since the ones Rabbie Burns wrote about.
And how much power does the European Parliament have?
That's like saying well, we've abolished the current system of Parliamentary democracy and replaced it with an advisory body of a dozen or so technocrats, appointed by the ruling elite. But don't worry, you still live in a democracy because you can vote in the locals and get to decide who your local councillor is.
The EU is not a democracy, even if it occasionally makes a fig leaf of a pretence to being one.It is a system deliberately designed to stop 'the ordinaries' having too much power or too much say in how they are governed, which is precisely why the likes of Roger love it.
I voted Tory last week, but a part of me is actually quite delighted at how the electorate were able to stick their middle fingers up at the establishment and say of austerity, enough is enough. That's how a functioning democracy works.
The EU is not a functioning democracy and until it becomes one, anybody cheerleading for further integration is signing away their birthright and that of their children, the hard-fought freedom to choose one's masters and to remove them when necessary, through the ballot box.
It's when you can't remove your leaders through the ballot box that trouble starts.
Mr. Urquhart, aye, Cameron was good at delegation and letting ministers get on with things.
unfortunately Osborne undid any of the good work with his incessant dabbling
Osborne introduced Tuition fess and ideological austerity which has made Corbyn seem an acceptable PM to far too many.
Tuition fees were first introduced across the entire United Kingdom in September 1998 under the Labour government as a means of funding tuition to undergraduate and postgraduate certificate students at universities, with students being required to pay up to £1,000 a year for tuition.
In England, tuition fee caps rose with the Higher Education Act 2004 under Tony Blair. Under the Act, universities in England could begin to charge variable fees of up to £3000 a year for students enrolling on courses as from the academic year of 2006-07 or later.
I had heard rumours, even in Scotland, through those who had dealings with them that the Home Office under May was not a happy place to work. It is becoming more obvious why.
No Richard only in your wildest fantasies did you ever win an argument with me.
We as a sovereign nation decided to join an association of nations for mutual benefit.
It's really not that complicated. For reasonably intelligent people. For morons, of course, it's near-unfathomable.
The ECJ clearly does not agree with you:
"the member States have limited their sovereign rights, and albeit within limited fields, have created a body of law which binds both nationals and themselves".
This position has been stated and restated in many ECJ decisions.
It was also the position of Sir William Wade, one of the leading academic lawyers of the 20th Century who said that Parliamentary Sovereignty had been removed by our accession to the EEC/EU and its subsequent treaties. He used the term 'revolutionary' to refer to the transfer of sovereignty from the UK to the EU.
But if you know better than both the ECJ and one of our leading legal experts...
We decided to join the club. We then left it. Or might do. No greater expression of sovereignty is there than that.
We are now and always were sovereign. I really don't know how to put it more clearly to you. Giving up "a bit of sovereignty" is nonsensical. We are sovereign inside and outside the EU. It is a club with rules. Fine.
Just heading out now but as I need a laugh I promise to read later whatever jejune reply you cobble together.
No Richard only in your wildest fantasies did you ever win an argument with me.
We as a sovereign nation decided to join an association of nations for mutual benefit.
It's really not that complicated. For reasonably intelligent people. For morons, of course, it's near-unfathomable.
The ECJ clearly does not agree with you:
"the member States have limited their sovereign rights, and albeit within limited fields, have created a body of law which binds both nationals and themselves".
This position has been stated and restated in many ECJ decisions.
It was also the position of Sir William Wade, one of the leading academic lawyers of the 20th Century who said that Parliamentary Sovereignty had been removed by our accession to the EEC/EU and its subsequent treaties. He used the term 'revolutionary' to refer to the transfer of sovereignty from the UK to the EU.
But if you know better than both the ECJ and one of our leading legal experts...
We decided to join the club. We then left it. Or might do. No greater expression of sovereignty is there than that.
We are now and always were sovereign. I really don't know how to put it more clearly to you. Giving up "a bit of sovereignty" is nonsensical. We are sovereign inside and outside the EU.
Just heading out now but as I need a laugh I promise to read later whatever jejune reply you cobble together.
As I say if you know better than both the ECJ and our own legal experts then clearly your arrogance is as unbounded as your ignorance.
Nutty Republicans like Shapiro is why I'm not an Atlanticist.
Americans have learned how to have sex? Seems unlikely.
LMAO. IIRC a few years ago I remember polls showing that many of them think that pornography is immoral. Yet there's such a huge porn industry in....America.
There's no such thing as a 'decent' Brexit. The whole shebang was based on lies and fears that were deliberately cooked up and unfounded. There never was £350 million. The Turks were never invading. The whole thing was a nonsense designed to appeal to people's greed and fears and among the less educated it worked. The 17,000,000 Remainers will never accept it and the Leavers when they finally understand they've been conned will rebel.
Theresa needs to be grown up show leadership and call it off. Another Referendum if necessary but in preference a letter to the EU apologising for wasting everyone's time and begging to be reinstated on existing terms. Otherwise When the shit hits the fan on this Brexit there will be riots and demonstrations the like of which we haven't seen. They'll make the Days of Danny Cohn Bendit Tariq Ali and the '68 riots at the Sorbonne look like a pillow fight.
That's democracy Rog!
Just imagine how you'd be feeling if we had a referendum on Gay Marriage, 52% voted for it but because a few of the 48 against it wouldnt shut up, the govt decided it would be too much trouble so binned it before one same sex couple were wed.
False analogy. You either allow SSM marriage or you don't there is no room for compromise. There is more than one form of Brexit and by-and-large we are now discussing what type of Brexit we get.
The majority are arguing for a soft Brexit that is a reasonable compromise between the 52% and the 48% given that it is clearly what numbers of the 52% want it as well.
I'd have thought civil partnership was a form of compromise actually, but the post I responded to wanted us to beg to go back in the EU on the same terms as before, not soft Brexit which I am not against, so your response to me is v peculiar
Fair enough but some people keep raising the straw-man of ignoring the result whereas, in the main, people are now discussing the type of Brexit we get.
Out of interest, if it did became evident a year or two down the line that opinion had moved against leaving the EU would you accept a second referendum or plough on based on the 52-48 result in 2015?
If a party was elected on the pledge of a 2nd referendum, I suppose it would be right to have one, but in principle if there is a vote for something to change, the change should be tried before vote reversed
There's no such thing as a 'decent' Brexit. The whole shebang was based on lies and fears that were deliberately cooked up and unfounded. There never was £350 million. The Turks were never invading. The whole thing was a nonsense designed to appeal to people's greed and fears and among the less educated it worked. The 17,000,000 Remainers will never accept it and the Leavers when they finally understand they've been conned will rebel.
Theresa needs to be grown up show leadership and call it off. Another Referendum if necessary but in preference a letter to the EU apologising for wasting everyone's time and begging to be reinstated on existing terms. Otherwise When the shit hits the fan on this Brexit there will be riots and demonstrations the like of which we haven't seen. They'll make the Days of Danny Cohn Bendit Tariq Ali and the '68 riots at the Sorbonne look like a pillow fight.
And the consequence of those Sorbonne riots in 1968 were crushing right wing election victories:
Spot on. The SWP would be causing trouble whatever Labour did. But Labour needs to be very careful about getting too close to them. Those affected by the Grenfell tragedy have every right to protest. Others doing it at this time - when emergency service resources are already stretched - deserve contempt. And if they cause trouble, Labour will be dragged down with them unless an effort is made to create some distance. What the hell Owen Jones was playing at today is beyond me. I think he feels guilty for dumping Corbyn earlier this year.
Mr. Urquhart, aye, Cameron was good at delegation and letting ministers get on with things.
unfortunately Osborne undid any of the good work with his incessant dabbling
Osborne introduced Tuition fess and ideological austerity which has made Corbyn seem an acceptable PM to far too many.
Tuition fees were first introduced across the entire United Kingdom in September 1998 under the Labour government as a means of funding tuition to undergraduate and postgraduate certificate students at universities, with students being required to pay up to £1,000 a year for tuition.
In England, tuition fee caps rose with the Higher Education Act 2004 under Tony Blair. Under the Act, universities in England could begin to charge variable fees of up to £3000 a year for students enrolling on courses as from the academic year of 2006-07 or later.
and the huge ramp up in fees came under the Coalition administration and was primarily pushed by the conservatives
remember the days when fkwit Willetts said only the Russell Group would charge £9k and everyone else about £6k ?
oh how the young people laughed as the 9k bills landed on the doormat
though like my son they laughed even harder when Clegg lost his seat
There's no such thing as a 'decent' Brexit. The whole shebang was based on lies and fears that were deliberately cooked up and unfounded. There never was £350 million. The Turks were never invading. The whole thing was a nonsense designed to appeal to people's greed and fears and among the less educated it worked. The 17,000,000 Remainers will never accept it and the Leavers when they finally understand they've been conned will rebel.
Theresa needs to be grown up show leadership and call it off. Another Referendum if necessary but in preference a letter to the EU apologising for wasting everyone's time and begging to be reinstated on existing terms. Otherwise When the shit hits the fan on this Brexit there will be riots and demonstrations the like of which we haven't seen. They'll make the Days of Danny Cohn Bendit Tariq Ali and the '68 riots at the Sorbonne look like a pillow fight.
And the consequence of those Sorbonne riots in 1968 were crushing right wing election victories:
Spot on. The SWP would be causing trouble whatever Labour did. But Labour needs to be very careful about getting too close to them. Those affected by the Grenfell tragedy have every right to protest. Others doing it at this time - when emergency service resources are already stretched - deserve contempt. And if they cause trouble, Labour will be dragged down with them unless an effort is made to create some distance. What the hell Owen Jones was playing at today is beyond me. I think he feels guilty for dumping Corbyn earlier this year.
It would be good to see the Labour leadership disowning the SWP - a vile organisation.
There's no such thing as a 'decent' Brexit. The whole shebang was based on lies and fears that were deliberately cooked up and unfounded. There never was £350 million. The Turks were never invading. The whole thing was a nonsense designed to appeal to people's greed and fears and among the less educated it worked. The 17,000,000 Remainers will never accept it and the Leavers when they finally understand they've been conned will rebel.
Theresa needs to be grown up show leadership and call it off. Another Referendum if necessary but in preference a letter to the EU apologising for wasting everyone's time and begging to be reinstated on existing terms. Otherwise When the shit hits the fan on this Brexit there will be riots and demonstrations the like of which we haven't seen. They'll make the Days of Danny Cohn Bendit Tariq Ali and the '68 riots at the Sorbonne look like a pillow fight.
And the consequence of those Sorbonne riots in 1968 were crushing right wing election victories:
Spot on. The SWP would be causing trouble whatever Labour did. But Labour needs to be very careful about getting too close to them. Those affected by the Grenfell tragedy have every right to protest. Others doing it at this time - when emergency service resources are already stretched - deserve contempt. And if they cause trouble, Labour will be dragged down with them unless an effort is made to create some distance. What the hell Owen Jones was playing at today is beyond me. I think he feels guilty for dumping Corbyn earlier this year.
I would have thought the people at the head of the Labour Party are already v close to the SWP.
Imagine there were another Islamic extremist attack while police were busy dealing with these muppets. I suppose that would be Theresa Mays fault too in their eyes
No Richard only in your wildest fantasies did you ever win an argument with me.
We as a sovereign nation decided to join an association of nations for mutual benefit.
It's really not that complicated. For reasonably intelligent people. For morons, of course, it's near-unfathomable.
The ECJ clearly does not agree with you:
"the member States have limited their sovereign rights, and albeit within limited fields, have created a body of law which binds both nationals and themselves".
This position has been stated and restated in many ECJ decisions.
It was also the position of Sir William Wade, one of the leading academic lawyers of the 20th Century who said that Parliamentary Sovereignty had been removed by our accession to the EEC/EU and its subsequent treaties. He used the term 'revolutionary' to refer to the transfer of sovereignty from the UK to the EU.
But if you know better than both the ECJ and one of our leading legal experts...
We decided to join the club. We then left it. Or might do. No greater expression of sovereignty is there than that.
We are now and always were sovereign. I really don't know how to put it more clearly to you. Giving up "a bit of sovereignty" is nonsensical. We are sovereign inside and outside the EU.
Just heading out now but as I need a laugh I promise to read later whatever jejune reply you cobble together.
As I say if you know better than both the ECJ and our own legal experts then clearly your arrogance is as unbounded as your ignorance.
Limited sovereign rights = decided and agreed to a common set of rules to be determined and enforced jointly by appointed bodies.
You really don't get it do you. Or perhaps you do. Who knows what on earth is going on inside your head. Not rational thought that's for sure.
Mr. Observer, too late. Labour's leadership and the SWP/Momentum aren't so much a Venn diagram as a circle.
It does look like it. Corbyn got the tone right when he went to Grenfell with the local MP and Labour's shadow housing minister. But others have got far, far too close to the rape cult. I thought long and hard about whether I should give Labour another go and rejoin after the election. I decided against. And I think I made the right decision. I have found the reactions of people like John McDonnell, Clive Lewis and Owen Jones to what has happened genuinely frightening, but totally unsurprising. David Lammy spoke in the shadow of Parliament (where change should come from) for the Labour party I want, but we are a long way from that right now. I hope NickP is right and there are no riots. If I were him, though, I would not be counting my chickens. The SWP is a vile, parasitical organisation that will be doing its very best to foment violence over the coming days.
No Richard only in your wildest fantasies did you ever win an argument with me.
We as a sovereign nation decided to join an association of nations for mutual benefit.
It's really not that complicated. For reasonably intelligent people. For morons, of course, it's near-unfathomable.
The ECJ clearly does not agree with you:
"the member States have limited their sovereign rights, and albeit within limited fields, have created a body of law which binds both nationals and themselves".
This position has been stated and restated in many ECJ decisions.
It was also the position of Sir William Wade, one of the leading academic lawyers of the 20th Century who said that Parliamentary Sovereignty had been removed by our accession to the EEC/EU and its subsequent treaties. He used the term 'revolutionary' to refer to the transfer of sovereignty from the UK to the EU.
But if you know better than both the ECJ and one of our leading legal experts...
We decided to join the club. We then left it. Or might do. No greater expression of sovereignty is there than that.
We are now and always were sovereign. I really don't know how to put it more clearly to you. Giving up "a bit of sovereignty" is nonsensical. We are sovereign inside and outside the EU.
Just heading out now but as I need a laugh I promise to read later whatever jejune reply you cobble together.
As I say if you know better than both the ECJ and our own legal experts then clearly your arrogance is as unbounded as your ignorance.
Limited sovereign rights = decided and agreed to a common set of rules to be determined and enforced jointly by appointed bodies.
You really don't get it do you. Or perhaps you do. Who knows what on earth is going on inside your head. Not rational thought that's for sure.
And just as you did before when you start to lose you try to redefine the basic concepts - just as I said you would. Like I said you are a quite extraordinary combination of arrogance and ignorance.
Deja vu all over again. 'The coalition won't last the summer'." GEOct2010 nailed on" - but the funniest is that now people are taking Matthew Parris seriously....after two years of ridicule over Brexit.... I've long been a fan of Parris' writing - less so his more recent political analysis.....
LMAO. IIRC a few years ago I remember polls showing that many of them think that pornography is immoral. Yet there's such a huge porn industry in....America.
Supposedly it makes 50% more profits per year than Hollywood, and that's even after free content on the internet cut into it heavily.
Mr. Observer, I sympathise. It seems a few MPs (Flint and Leslie) still have their heads screwed on right, but the capitulation of the lion's share of the PLP was shameful to behold.
Politics is in a very poor state currently. Having someone of the far left as Leader of the Opposition is the single most disturbing aspect. The sooner Labour has a sane leader, the better.
Just imagine how you'd be feeling if we had a referendum on Gay Marriage, 52% voted for it but because a few of the 48 against it wouldnt shut up, the govt decided it would be too much trouble so binned it before one same sex couple were wed.
False analogy. You either allow SSM marriage or you don't there is no room for compromise. There is more than one form of Brexit and by-and-large we are now discussing what type of Brexit we get.
The majority are arguing for a soft Brexit that is a reasonable compromise between the 52% and the 48% given that it is clearly what numbers of the 52% want it as well.
I'd have thought civil partnership was a form of compromise actually, but the post I responded to wanted us to beg to go back in the EU on the same terms as before, not soft Brexit which I am not against, so your response to me is v peculiar
Fair enough but some people keep raising the straw-man of ignoring the result whereas, in the main, people are now discussing the type of Brexit we get.
Out of interest, if it did became evident a year or two down the line that opinion had moved against leaving the EU would you accept a second referendum or plough on based on the 52-48 result in 2015?
If a party was elected on the pledge of a 2nd referendum, I suppose it would be right to have one, but in principle if there is a vote for something to change, the change should be tried before vote reversed
Personally I couldn't see the point of proceeding with something so critical as Brexit if it became evident that it no longer carried majority support. I just don't see how it would achieve anything. I have to say I might agree with you if Leave had won by the 30%+ majority of the original referendum, but on 52-48 I just don't see it.
I emphasise I am not saying that that is where we are now but I am wondering what Brexiters views would be if it became evident that they had lost the country before we actually left.
LMAO. IIRC a few years ago I remember polls showing that many of them think that pornography is immoral. Yet there's such a huge porn industry in....America.
Supposedly it makes 50% more profits per year than Hollywood, and that's even after free content on the internet cut into it heavily.
Wow.
Yet so many American Conservatives have a puritanical attitude toward sex with their promotion of an abstinence only sex-ed, a dislike of contraception, and a belief in no sex before marriage.
Just imagine how you'd be feeling if we had a referendum on Gay Marriage, 52% voted for it but because a few of the 48 against it wouldnt shut up, the govt decided it would be too much trouble so binned it before one same sex couple were wed.
False analogy. You either allow SSM marriage or you don't there is no room for compromise. There is more than one form of Brexit and by-and-large we are now discussing what type of Brexit we get.
The majority are arguing for a soft Brexit that is a reasonable compromise between the 52% and the 48% given that it is clearly what numbers of the 52% want it as well.
I'd have thought civil partnership was a form of compromise actually, but the post I responded to wanted us to beg to go back in the EU on the same terms as before, not soft Brexit which I am not against, so your response to me is v peculiar
Fair enough but some people keep raising the straw-man of ignoring the result whereas, in the main, people are now discussing the type of Brexit we get.
Out of interest, if it did became evident a year or two down the line that opinion had moved against leaving the EU would you accept a second referendum or plough on based on the 52-48 result in 2015?
If a party was elected on the pledge of a 2nd referendum, I suppose it would be right to have one, but in principle if there is a vote for something to change, the change should be tried before vote reversed
Personally I couldn't see the point of proceeding with something so critical as Brexit if it became evident that it no longer carried majority support. I just don't see how it would achieve anything. I have to say I might agree with you if Leave had won by the 30%+ majority of the original referendum, but on 52-48 I just don't see it.
I emphasise I am not saying that that is where we are now but I am wondering what Brexiters views would be if it became evident that they had lost the country before we actually left.
If we stuck to that principle we would be holding elections every time the ruling party dipped in the polls. Not really the way to run things.
@OllyT Personally I couldn't see the point of proceeding with something so critical as Brexit if it became evident that it no longer carried majority support. I just don't see how it would achieve anything. I have to say I might agree with you if Leave had won by the 30%+ majority of the original referendum, but on 52-48 I just don't see it.
I emphasise I am not saying that that is where we are now but I am wondering what Brexiters views would be if it became evident that they had lost the country before we actually left.
The question that raises is 'how would you measure this public support?' By the opinion polls that had May 12-15% ahead 10 days ago or those that said it was 1-4%? There was public support for the death penalty, we didn't have a referendum on it
If you have a referendum, the result of which is confirmed by a vote in the commons, I don't think there is a way of reversing it using subjective methods. Most media, most politicians and most polls were anti Brexit before the referendum, they can't be the measurement used
Mr. Observer, too late. Labour's leadership and the SWP/Momentum aren't so much a Venn diagram as a circle.
It does look like it. Corbyn got the tone right when he went to Grenfell with the local MP and Labour's shadow housing minister. But others have got far, far too close to the rape cult. I thought long and hard about whether I should give Labour another go and rejoin after the election. I decided against. And I think I made the right decision. I have found the reactions of people like John McDonnell, Clive Lewis and Owen Jones to what has happened genuinely frightening, but totally unsurprising. David Lammy spoke in the shadow of Parliament (where change should come from) for the Labour party I want, but we are a long way from that right now. I hope NickP is right and there are no riots. If I were him, though, I would not be counting my chickens. The SWP is a vile, parasitical organisation that will be doing its very best to foment violence over the coming days.
That is always the issue with the left. When their power is weak, they appear to stand for all the right things, and a better society, if you overlook the part that allows every person to live the life that they wish. Once they get any power, the sad truth that the left stands for controlling people's lives, or denying any power from those with whom they disagree, becomes all too evident. You only have to look at the way a local authority captured by Labour behaves towards any opposition, be it political, or from local residents, to get a foretaste of how Labour would behave in power nationally. It's a tragedy for those that wish for a better, fairer, society.
Mr. Observer, too late. Labour's leadership and the SWP/Momentum aren't so much a Venn diagram as a circle.
It does look like it. Corbyn got the tone right when he went to Grenfell with the local MP and Labour's shadow housing minister. But others have got far, far too close to the rape cult. I thought long and hard about whether I should give Labour another go and rejoin after the election. I decided against. And I think I made the right decision. I have found the reactions of people like John McDonnell, Clive Lewis and Owen Jones to what has happened genuinely frightening, but totally unsurprising. David Lammy spoke in the shadow of Parliament (where change should come from) for the Labour party I want, but we are a long way from that right now. I hope NickP is right and there are no riots. If I were him, though, I would not be counting my chickens. The SWP is a vile, parasitical organisation that will be doing its very best to foment violence over the coming days.
That is always the issue with the left. When their power is weak, they appear to stand for all the right things, and a better society, if you overlook the part that allows every person to live the life that they wish. Once they get any power, the sad truth that the left stands for controlling people's lives, or denying any power from those with whom they disagree, becomes all too evident. You only have to look at the way a local authority captured by Labour behaves towards any opposition, be it political, or from local residents, to get a foretaste of how Labour would behave in power nationally. It's a tragedy for those that wish for a better, fairer, society.
Think you may be on something there. I also entirely agree with Southam's post. I think after voting LD at this election, I am going to be staying with them. They are lefties, but they are lefties which don't scare me. McDonnell and co do.
Not sure that Theresa needs any help from the likes of him. Her truckling to various manifestations of the Alt-Right is the cause of much of her problems.
Comments
But the speech was claiming this was the only reason. And if the daily mails investigation is true, all documentation submitted to the authorities said they would use the fire resistant cladding, it was a subcontractor who then used a different product.
The Tories to stfu and get on with the business of negotiating a Brexit that works for the country as a whole and not just the tory party; from a minority position.
Or
Call the whole thing off and recognise the simple fact that EU membership was entirely in our interests. Boris Johnson to announce it by driving a bus around all 650 constituencies with the slogan. I'm sorry, we're better off in.
I don't want Labour or the LibDems anywhere near this. It's a Tory car crash and I want the people who caused it to be clearly identifiable. Liars, charlatans and outright fuckwits. You deserve all that's coming to you.
https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/876097084105142273
Fewer...
I will help you:
"Sovereignty: supreme and independent power or authority in government as possessed or claimed by a state or community."
We had this argument a few months back and you got trounced and had to start claiming the word meant something other than it did. I would have thought you would have learnt your lesson by now but clearly you have not. Clearly you remain dumber than a bag of rocks.
Please explain what makes him a weirdo
The most like course of action, assuming things settle down and it looks as if the minority government will last, is to re-start another review due to conclude around 2010/1, before the next GE. My bet is that this will be on 650 seats and more flexible criteria.
And we all saw the pictures of piles of stuff he got backlogged with.
From all the reports of cameron, this was something he was very good at. Always read his red box, got everything that needed a decision / signing off done without delay.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE-eUXR60as
On Betfair,
PM after Theresa May:
Johnson is 5.7
Davis is 5.6
(and Corbyn is also 5.6)
But on next Tory Leader
Johnson is 4.9
Davis is 7.6
How do you explain that?
https://twitter.com/channel4/status/875780306502131713
We as a sovereign nation decided to join an association of nations for mutual benefit.
It's really not that complicated. For reasonably intelligent people. For morons, of course, it's near-unfathomable.
There is more than one form of Brexit and by-and-large we are now discussing what type of Brexit we get.
The majority are arguing for a soft Brexit that is a reasonable compromise between the 52% and the 48% given that it is clearly what numbers of the 52% want it as well.
https://twitter.com/bbcnickrobinson/status/876102799951613952
Especially when they're either time-sensitive (Verstappen last year) or arbtastic.
https://twitter.com/AmandaPresto/status/873208687904555008
American Conservatives really are something in their capacity to come up with hilarious readings of elections in Europe and Britain. Only they could believe that the answer is to become religious nutters like them.
GOPers simply to have to understand is that many outside of America have no desire for their vision of a neo-liberal, highly socially conservative society.
And they'd be right to reject that awful vision of a society.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_legislative_election,_1968
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_presidential_election,_1969
be careful with what you threaten.
https://twitter.com/theJeremyVine/status/876016540998672385
Thanks for a welcome note of humour in a grim situation.
We haven't had a Queen of England since Queen Louise died in 1824.
Out of interest, if it did became evident a year or two down the line that opinion had moved against leaving the EU would you accept a second referendum or plough on based on the 52-48 result in 2015?
https://twitter.com/SophyRidgeSky/status/876014273436282880
"the member States have limited their sovereign rights, and albeit within limited fields, have created a body of law which binds both nationals and themselves".
This position has been stated and restated in many ECJ decisions.
It was also the position of Sir William Wade, one of the leading academic lawyers of the 20th Century who said that Parliamentary Sovereignty had been removed by our accession to the EEC/EU and its subsequent treaties. He used the term 'revolutionary' to refer to the transfer of sovereignty from the UK to the EU.
But if you know better than both the ECJ and one of our leading legal experts...
Meanwhile:
https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/872959792922284033
Nutty Republicans like Shapiro is why I'm not an Atlanticist.
That's like saying well, we've abolished the current system of Parliamentary democracy and replaced it with an advisory body of a dozen or so technocrats, appointed by the ruling elite. But don't worry, you still live in a democracy because you can vote in the locals and get to decide who your local councillor is.
The EU is not a democracy, even if it occasionally makes a fig leaf of a pretence to being one.It is a system deliberately designed to stop 'the ordinaries' having too much power or too much say in how they are governed, which is precisely why the likes of Roger love it.
I voted Tory last week, but a part of me is actually quite delighted at how the electorate were able to stick their middle fingers up at the establishment and say of austerity, enough is enough. That's how a functioning democracy works.
The EU is not a functioning democracy and until it becomes one, anybody cheerleading for further integration is signing away their birthright and that of their children, the hard-fought freedom to choose one's masters and to remove them when necessary, through the ballot box.
It's when you can't remove your leaders through the ballot box that trouble starts.
https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2015/06/16/11/charles-clarke-rex.jpg
In England, tuition fee caps rose with the Higher Education Act 2004 under Tony Blair. Under the Act, universities in England could begin to charge variable fees of up to £3000 a year for students enrolling on courses as from the academic year of 2006-07 or later.
We are now and always were sovereign. I really don't know how to put it more clearly to you. Giving up "a bit of sovereignty" is nonsensical. We are sovereign inside and outside the EU. It is a club with rules. Fine.
Just heading out now but as I need a laugh I promise to read later whatever jejune reply you cobble together.
Madman Across The Water ??
remember the days when fkwit Willetts said only the Russell Group would charge £9k and everyone else about £6k ?
oh how the young people laughed as the 9k bills landed on the doormat
though like my son they laughed even harder when Clegg lost his seat
Imagine there were another Islamic extremist attack while police were busy dealing with these muppets. I suppose that would be Theresa Mays fault too in their eyes
You really don't get it do you. Or perhaps you do. Who knows what on earth is going on inside your head. Not rational thought that's for sure.
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/875750893043548160
https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/876111790966530048
https://twitter.com/NimkoAli/status/876105320615071744
https://twitter.com/NimkoAli/status/876106306003906560
Politics is in a very poor state currently. Having someone of the far left as Leader of the Opposition is the single most disturbing aspect. The sooner Labour has a sane leader, the better.
Personally I couldn't see the point of proceeding with something so critical as Brexit if it became evident that it no longer carried majority support. I just don't see how it would achieve anything. I have to say I might agree with you if Leave had won by the 30%+ majority of the original referendum, but on 52-48 I just don't see it.
I emphasise I am not saying that that is where we are now but I am wondering what Brexiters views would be if it became evident that they had lost the country before we actually left.
Yet so many American Conservatives have a puritanical attitude toward sex with their promotion of an abstinence only sex-ed, a dislike of contraception, and a belief in no sex before marriage.
https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/06/16/northern-ireland-life-and-times-survey-suggests-slight-increase-in-support-for-irish-unity-and-cross-community-support-for-abortion-reform/
I emphasise I am not saying that that is where we are now but I am wondering what Brexiters views would be if it became evident that they had lost the country before we actually left.
If we stuck to that principle we would be holding elections every time the ruling party dipped in the polls. Not really the way to run things.
I emphasise I am not saying that that is where we are now but I am wondering what Brexiters views would be if it became evident that they had lost the country before we actually left.
The question that raises is 'how would you measure this public support?' By the opinion polls that had May 12-15% ahead 10 days ago or those that said it was 1-4%? There was public support for the death penalty, we didn't have a referendum on it
If you have a referendum, the result of which is confirmed by a vote in the commons, I don't think there is a way of reversing it using subjective methods. Most media, most politicians and most polls were anti Brexit before the referendum, they can't be the measurement used
https://www.thejc.com/comment/comment/mr-hickey-i-can-help-you-become-dr-hickey-1.50706