He's done his duty, plus he believes once you've been rejected by the country, you shouldn't come back.
He wasn't rejected. The EU was.
He was the front man for the rejected side.
Plus he's enjoying spending time with his family.
Fair enough I would have thought he was uniquely qualified to unfuck the Tory party and have enough experience to dive into government Brexit negotiations.
Part of Cameron's problem - and I mean this totally seriously - is that he is a poor negotiator. You may have noticed it was William Hague who fronted for the coalition agreement, which worked. Cameron fronted the EU renegotiation, which manifestly didn't.
As a further serious question, who is there who can sort out Labour? Accepting, for the moment there's no urgency in their case as they're not in government, how do they make sure the emboldened and increasingly crazy left do not end by annihilating the party through proposing the nationalisation of housing and compulsory indoctrination in Marxism? Is there a reasonably sensible left wing candidate acceptable to the left in the medium term when Corbyn goes but who might be acceptable to the country as well?
Labour doesn't think it needs sorting out. It has a popular leader, with popular policies. It has political momentum, is within a dozen seats of power,, a weak opponent and is more united than it has been in years.
We need a new Tory leader to come in and say: Yep, cross-party consensus, it's EEA and Soft Brexit. For now. This would command the assent of 70% of the Commons. Only mad eurosceptic wankers and Corbyn would fume. YAY.
Just do it, you useless twats.
Monday's discussions are the technical sessions, which will go something like this:
UK: How much? EU: This thing, that thing, the other thing. UK: That seems a lot? EU: Do you want a deal, trade, economy, jobs ...? UK: Yeah... Think so. EU: Well you better sign here... UK: OK but nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
He's done his duty, plus he believes once you've been rejected by the country, you shouldn't come back.
He wasn't rejected. The EU was.
He was the front man for the rejected side.
Plus he's enjoying spending time with his family.
Fair enough I would have thought he was uniquely qualified to unfuck the Tory party and have enough experience to dive into government Brexit negotiations.
Part of Cameron's problem - and I mean this totally seriously - is that he is a poor negotiator. You may have noticed it was William Hague who fronted for the coalition agreement, which worked. Cameron fronted the EU renegotiation, which manifestly didn't.
As a further serious question, who is there who can sort out Labour? Accepting, for the moment there's no urgency in their case as they're not in government, how do they make sure the emboldened and increasingly crazy left do not end by annihilating the party through proposing the nationalisation of housing and compulsory indoctrination in Marxism? Is there a reasonably sensible left wing candidate acceptable to the left in the medium term when Corbyn goes but who might be acceptable to the country as well?
Labour doesn't think it needs sorting out. It has a popular leader, with popular policies. It has political momentum, is within a dozen seats of power,, a weak opponent and is more united than it has been in years.
The irony is that London has never felt more affluent, confident and agreeable than on this dulcet Sunday evening.
I went for a walk through Primrose Hill and Regent's Park just now. It was a sea of happy picnickers, of all races, ages, and sizes, guzzling wine, hummus and champagne, from beginning to end.
It's Saturday.
Indeed. Life here, on Primrose Hill Borders, is so sweet we don't even CARE what day it is.
Yes Sean, the world is great when you are surrounded by wealthy Lefties. Don't leave - you wouldn't like the world outside.
I'm drunk and happy. Today I had an orgasm with my girlfriend that was so intense it made my head wobble, like a mildly doubtful Hindu shopkeeper.
He's done his duty, plus he believes once you've been rejected by the country, you shouldn't come back.
He wasn't rejected. The EU was.
He was the front man for the rejected side.
Plus he's enjoying spending time with his family.
Fair enough I would have thought he was uniquely qualified to unfuck the Tory party and have enough experience to dive into government Brexit negotiations.
Part of Cameron's problem - and I mean this totally seriously - is that he is a poor negotiator. You may have noticed it was William Hague who fronted for the coalition agreement, which worked. Cameron fronted the EU renegotiation, which manifestly didn't.
As a further serious question, who is there who can sort out Labour? Accepting, for the moment there's no urgency in their case as they're not in government, how do they make sure the emboldened and increasingly crazy left do not end by annihilating the party through proposing the nationalisation of housing and compulsory indoctrination in Marxism? Is there a reasonably sensible left wing candidate acceptable to the left in the medium term when Corbyn goes but who might be acceptable to the country as well?
Labour doesn't think it needs sorting out. It has a popular leader, with popular policies. It has political momentum, is within a dozen seats of power,, a weak opponent and is more united than it has been in years.
Corbyn's number one groupee has spoken.
Read what I actually wrote. One key word.
From experience, I have to warn you that rarely does anyone read what is actually written.
He's done his duty, plus he believes once you've been rejected by the country, you shouldn't come back.
He wasn't rejected. The EU was.
He was the front man for the rejected side.
Plus he's enjoying spending time with his family.
Fair enough I would have thought he was uniquely qualified to unfuck the Tory party and have enough experience to dive into government Brexit negotiations.
Part of Cameron's problem - and I mean this totally seriously - is that he is a poor negotiator. You may have noticed it was William Hague who fronted for the coalition agreement, which worked. Cameron fronted the EU renegotiation, which manifestly didn't.
As a further serious question, who is there who can sort out Labour? Accepting, for the moment there's no urgency in their case as they're not in government, how do they make sure the emboldened and increasingly crazy left do not end by annihilating the party through proposing the nationalisation of housing and compulsory indoctrination in Marxism? Is there a reasonably sensible left wing candidate acceptable to the left in the medium term when Corbyn goes but who might be acceptable to the country as well?
Labour doesn't think it needs sorting out. It has a popular leader, with popular policies. It has political momentum, is within a dozen seats of power,, a weak opponent and is more united than it has been in years.
It really isn't united. All the lefties I know are massively conflicted. They are glad the Tories didn't get a landslide, yet they still deeply mistrust, even loathe, Corbyn and his gang,
If we had another election, with a Corbyn government as a significant possibility, I reckon most of them would abstain.
Add to this the increasingly unavoidable fact that Corbyn Loves Brexit, and I think this means Labour would lose all their gains in Remainery England in a new election.
Corbyn could sidestep this problem by finally changing his principles. I wonder if the vanity of an ageing man (which I know well) might be enough to provoke such a move.
I think there's some truth in that, actually. I don't think a Labour victory, if the government falls, is guaranteed. If Corbyn modified, and embraced centrist MPs, it would be a shoo-in. But no signs of that, yet.
On your more pertinent point, actually she isn't that happy. Because: Corbyn didn't win. She remains skeptical about politics in general. I wonder how long it will take for his youthful disciples to get bored, and drift away.....
A Corbynista who has accepted Corbyn lost?
Now that is unusual. Look at Owen Jones this evening.
That deserves a thread on its own. I agree your scenario is possible, especially if they don't believe he was robbed.
We need a new Tory leader to come in and say: Yep, cross-party consensus, it's EEA and Soft Brexit. For now. This would command the assent of 70% of the Commons. Only mad eurosceptic wankers and Corbyn would fume. YAY.
Just do it, you useless twats.
Eh, I've been expecting car-crash Brexit for quite some time now. I don't think it's actually possible to resolve all the various drivers to the satisfaction of the electorate, the Conservative Party, and the EU. Certainly not with the politicians we've got.
If anyone thinks Hammond, or worse still, Hunt, could be election winners for the Tories, they are sadly deluded.
When May goes, why not go for someone outside of the current cabinet? Kwarsi, or Jim Cleverley? Or Ruth if they can fix it. The Tories need someone who offers a bit of inspiration rather than perspiration. Hammond or Hunt = Corbyn majority.
James would be great. Not Kwarsi though.
An election winner is the only thing that matters at the moment. Or, everything we know is under threat if Corbyn gets his hands on power.
It must not be Hammond or Hunt. Or Gove. Those three could not win an election. Like someone said earlier, the Tories need an antidote to Corbyn. Ruth Davidson would be perfect - naturally enthusiastic, articulate, likeable, and most importantly, a proven winner. Taking the scalps of Salmond and Robertson was a remarkable achievement.
People would vote for her.
**EDIT**
Ask Labour who they would least like to go up against in an election. Pound to a penny the most common answer would be Davidson.
This is why I've suggested Boris, he could be a populist, he has a record of good campaigns and actually has won over white working class labour voters. He won 8% of GE labour voters in London and many LEAVE voters were won over by him.
He could be the antidote to populist Corbyn.
Not sure about BoJo anymore. I think he's damaged goods, and besides, his seat. It's no longer a safe one. A concerted 'progressive alliance' could unseat him at the next election.
I gave Boris my second preference (after the LibDem) for Mayor of London. I thought he was fun, authentic, would shake things up, a change from the usual politician. I liked him.
Now I hold him in contempt. He is duplicitous, unauthentic and incompetent. Damaged goods as you say. From a partisan point of view, I hope the Tories choose him as their leader. But I don't think they will.
For me, it has to be Ruth Davidson, by hook or by crook. Anyone who can scalp Alex Salmond and Angus Robertson in a general election is extra special in my view.
She'd dance rings around Uncle Corbyn in her sleep.
Shire twin-set and pearls brigade will not accept her in a million years.
He's done his duty, plus he believes once you've been rejected by the country, you shouldn't come back.
He wasn't rejected. The EU was.
He was the front man for the rejected side.
Plus he's enjoying spending time with his family.
Fair enough I would have thought he was uniquely qualified to unfuck the Tory party and have enough experience to dive into government Brexit negotiations.
As a further serious question, who is there who can sort out Labour? Accepting, for the moment there's no urgency in their case as they're not in government, how do they make sure the emboldened and increasingly crazy left do not end by annihilating the party through proposing the nationalisation of housing and compulsory indoctrination in Marxism? Is there a reasonably sensible left wing candidate acceptable to the left in the medium term when Corbyn goes but who might be acceptable to the country as well?
Labour doesn't think it needs sorting out. It has a popular leader, with popular policies. It has political momentum, is within a dozen seats of power,, a weak opponent and is more united than it has been in years.
It really isn't united. All the lefties I know are massively conflicted. They are glad the Tories didn't get a landslide, yet they still deeply mistrust, even loathe, Corbyn and his gang,
If we had another election, with a Corbyn government as a significant possibility, I reckon most of them would abstain.
Add to this the increasingly unavoidable fact that Corbyn Loves Brexit, and I think this means Labour would lose all their gains in Remainery England in a new election.
Corbyn could sidestep this problem by finally changing his principles. I wonder if the vanity of an ageing man (which I know well) might be enough to provoke such a move.
I think there's some truth in that, actually. I don't think a Labour victory, if the government falls, is guaranteed. If Corbyn modified, and embraced centrist MPs, it would be a shoo-in. But no signs of that, yet.
Ah, just a few weeks ago, Theresa May's massive majority was a shoo-in. See how easy it is to get carried away? Nothing is a 'shoo-in' in politics, not any more.
Blunt question time. Why were most of the people who went to Downing Street today white? They didn't exactly look like the people being shown on TV this week as those made homeless by the fire.
Blunt question time. Why were most of the people who went to Downing Street today white? They didn't exactly look like the people being shown on TV this week as those made homeless by the fire.
They were selected by the Bishop of Kensington as far as I am aware
If anyone thinks Hammond, or worse still, Hunt, could be election winners for the Tories, they are sadly deluded.
When May goes, why not go for someone outside of the current cabinet? Kwarsi, or Jim Cleverley? Or Ruth if they can fix it. The Tories need someone who offers a bit of inspiration rather than perspiration. Hammond or Hunt = Corbyn majority.
James would be great. Not Kwarsi though.
An election winner is the only thing that matters at the moment. Or, everything we know is under threat if Corbyn gets his hands on power.
It must not be Hammond or Hunt. Or Gove. Those three could not win an election. Like someone said earlier, the Tories need an antidote to Corbyn. Ruth Davidson would be perfect - naturally enthusiastic, articulate, likeable, and most importantly, a proven winner. Taking the scalps of Salmond and Robertson was a remarkable achievement.
People would vote for her.
**EDIT**
Ask Labour who they would least like to go up against in an election. Pound to a penny the most common answer would be Davidson.
This is why I've suggested Boris, he could be a populist, he has a record of good campaigns and actually has won over white working class labour voters. He won 8% of GE labour voters in London and many LEAVE voters were won over by him.
He could be the antidote to populist Corbyn.
Not sure about BoJo anymore. I think he's damaged goods, and besides, his seat. It's no longer a safe one. A concerted 'progressive alliance' could unseat him at the next election.
I gave Boris my second preference (after the LibDem) for Mayor of London. I thought he was fun, authentic, would shake things up, a change from the usual politician. I liked him.
Now I hold him in contempt. He is duplicitous, unauthentic and incompetent. Damaged goods as you say. From a partisan point of view, I hope the Tories choose him as their leader. But I don't think they will.
For me, it has to be Ruth Davidson, by hook or by crook. Anyone who can scalp Alex Salmond and Angus Robertson in a general election is extra special in my view.
She'd dance rings around Uncle Corbyn in her sleep.
Shire twin-set and pearls brigade will not accept her in a million years.
He's done his duty, plus he believes once you've been rejected by the country, you shouldn't come back.
He wasn't rejected. The EU was.
He was the front man for the rejected side.
Plus he's enjoying spending time with his family.
Fair enough I would have thought he was uniquely qualified to unfuck the Tory party and have enough experience to dive into government Brexit negotiations.
As a further serious question, who is there who can sort out Labour? Accepting, for the moment there's no urgency in their case as they're not in government, how do they make sure the emboldened and increasingly crazy left do not end by annihilating the party through proposing the nationalisation of housing and compulsory indoctrination in Marxism? Is there a reasonably sensible left wing candidate acceptable to the left in the medium term when Corbyn goes but who might be acceptable to the country as well?
Labour doesn't think it needs sorting out. It has a popular leader, with popular policies. It has political momentum, is within a dozen seats of power,, a weak opponent and is more united than it has been in years.
It really isn't united. All the lefties I know are massively conflicted. They are glad the Tories didn't get a landslide, yet they still deeply mistrust, even loathe, Corbyn and his gang,
If we had another election, with a Corbyn government snip
I think there's some truth in that, actually. I don't think a Labour victory, if the government falls, is guaranteed. If Corbyn modified, and embraced centrist MPs, it would be a shoo-in. But no signs of that, yet.
Ah, just a few weeks ago, Theresa May's massive majority was a shoo-in. See how easy it is to get carried away? Nothing is a 'shoo-in' in politics, not any more.
Blunt question time. Why were most of the people who went to Downing Street today white? They didn't exactly look like the people being shown on TV this week as those made homeless by the fire.
It's clear however that something, or probably several things together, went badly wrong at Grenfell Tower. It wasn't a once in centuries event that you couldn't reasonably mitigate. Either the building standards aren't fit for purpose or they aren't being enforced effectively.Very possibly both.
Blunt question time. Why were most of the people who went to Downing Street today white? They didn't exactly look like the people being shown on TV this week as those made homeless by the fire.
I was thinking that earlier tig. Certainly about 90% of those affected by the tragedy appear to be non white. in fact I think I can only recall one TV interview with a white person that was involved.
Well over half those attending were white. They don't look like the angry young black men that I have been watching on TV for the past three days. However, they certainly look as though they would be easier to handle. Hand-picked maybe?
It's clear however that something, or probably several things together, went badly wrong at Grenfell Tower. It wasn't a once in centuries event that you couldn't reasonably mitigate. Either the building standards aren't fit for purpose or they aren't being enforced effectively.Very possibly both.
Blunt question time. Why were most of the people who went to Downing Street today white? They didn't exactly look like the people being shown on TV this week as those made homeless by the fire.
Currently listening to Buckley's Grace on my new record player after a morning at the shop, a sunny lunch on the banks of the Frome and an evening with the puppy. Life is good outside of Primrose Hill, too...
Blunt question time. Why were most of the people who went to Downing Street today white? They didn't exactly look like the people being shown on TV this week as those made homeless by the fire.
He's done his duty, plus he believes once you've been rejected by the country, you shouldn't come back.
He wasn't rejected. The EU was.
He was the front man for the rejected side.
Plus he's enjoying spending time with his family.
Fair enough I would have thought he was uniquely qualified to unfuck the Tory party and have enough experience to dive into government Brexit negotiations.
Part of Cameron's prtry as well?
Labour doesn't think it needs sorting out. It has a popular leader, with popular policies. It has political momentum, is within a dozen seats of power,, a weak opponent and is more united than it has been in years.
It really isn't united. All the lefties I know are massively conflicted. They are glad the Tories didn't get a landslide, yet they still deeply mistrust, even loathe, Corbyn and his gang,
If we had another election, with a Corbyn government as a significant possibility, I reckon most of them would abstain.
Add to this the increasingly unavoidable fact that Corbyn Loves Brexit, and I think this means Labour would lose all their gains in Remainery England in a new election.
Corbyn could sidestep this problem by finally changing his principles. I wonder if the vanity of an ageing man (which I know well) might be enough to provoke such a move.
I think there's some truth in that, actually. I don't think a Labour victory, if the government falls, is guaranteed. If Corbyn modified, and embraced centrist MPs, it would be a shoo-in. But no signs of that, yet.
I have this theory that Corbyn is the most moderate, of the Labour inner circle. He is a bloody good campaigner - the best in parliament probably. But he needs sensible people around him. I was wrong about him in the sense that I was astounded by how good his is on the stump. But that's not to say the inner circle needs no modification, it does.
Currently listening to Buckley's Grace on my new record player after a morning at the shop, a sunny lunch on the banks of the Frome and an evening with the puppy. Life is good outside of Primrose Hill, too...
My parents babysat today, so we went into Cambridge together for the first time in ages. A couple of hours in the Sedgwick Museum of Earth Sciences, followed by a meal and a walk along the Cam to watch the Bumps.
Blunt question time. Why were most of the people who went to Downing Street today white? They didn't exactly look like the people being shown on TV this week as those made homeless by the fire.
I was thinking that earlier tig. Certainly about 90% of those affected by the tragedy appear to be non white. in fact I think I can only recall one TV interview with a white person that was involved.
Well over half those attending were white. They don't look like the angry young black men that I have been watching on TV for the past three days. However, they certainly look as though they would be easier to handle. Hand-picked maybe?
This sounds dangerously like another PB conspiracy theory brewing. It has all the hallmarks!
Blunt question time. Why were most of the people who went to Downing Street today white? They didn't exactly look like the people being shown on TV this week as those made homeless by the fire.
I was thinking that earlier tig. Certainly about 90% of those affected by the tragedy appear to be non white. in fact I think I can only recall one TV interview with a white person that was involved.
Well over half those attending were white. They don't look like the angry young black men that I have been watching on TV for the past three days. However, they certainly look as though they would be easier to handle. Hand-picked maybe?
This sounds dangerously like another PB conspiracy theory brewing. It has all the hallmarks!
Is the other conspiracy theory the Monty Hall problem or your continued password forgetfulness?
To get the lead story that wrong is shocking for a newspaper that aspires to seriousness. That is basic stuff.
Anyone remember Sir Anthony Meyer ?
Yes - I met him at a meeting during his challenge at the local college. Very strange really and we knew he had no chance. I did not support him anyway but went to the meeting in general interest
Currently listening to Buckley's Grace on my new record player after a morning at the shop, a sunny lunch on the banks of the Frome and an evening with the puppy. Life is good outside of Primrose Hill, too...
My parents babysat today, so we went into Cambridge together for the first time in ages. A couple of hours in the Sedgwick Museum of Earth Sciences, followed by a meal and a walk along the Cam to watch the Bumps.
Heaven.
I learnt archery in the Sussex countryside. A joy.
Currently listening to Buckley's Grace on my new record player after a morning at the shop, a sunny lunch on the banks of the Frome and an evening with the puppy. Life is good outside of Primrose Hill, too...
God Bless you, Sir.
I think it would be nice, if, every so often, just once a month or so, we had a PB evening when we celebrated nice things, pleasant things we do and see and eat, just for half an hour or so. Things we can agree on.
Because, if you are a Briton, you are - still - a very lucky person, on average. And, for most of the time, Life is Sweet. Short, but Sweet. And we REALLY need to remember what unites us, and all that hippy shit.
Here's what I saw today on Primrose Hill and Regent's Park. Lots of happy people.
One move I'm surprised hasn't happened (at least as I've heard): I would have expected the police or a.n.other authority to visit the companies involved, from the architects down, and remove documents pertaining to the works.
Don't sell yourself too short!
That's a very good point. Does that suggest at this stage that the police are *not* planning on an investigation?
But surely this judge led inquiry that Theresa Miliband oops, May has promised will need them?
I don't know if it's the way it's done, but it's the way I'd do it. The earlier you get records the better. The legalities of it might be interesting though, so perhaps one of our semi-tame lawyers would know?
It's clear however that something, or probably several things together, went badly wrong at Grenfell Tower. It wasn't a once in centuries event that you couldn't reasonably mitigate. Either the building standards aren't fit for purpose or they aren't being enforced effectively.Very possibly both.
That article seems somewhat binary. We're all jumping the gun, but there are probably practical and affordable (if not always cheap) things landlords could do to make their buildings safer from fire, which don't involve either demolishing all tower blocks or attempting to put in a second staircase as they would be obliged to do in a new build.
I have this theory that Corbyn is the most moderate, of the Labour inner circle. He is a bloody good campaigner - the best in parliament probably. But he needs sensible people around him. I was wrong about him in the sense that I was astounded by how good his is on the stump. But that's not to say the inner circle needs no modification, it does.
Yes, that seems fair. Certainly he's clearly less dangerous than Macdonnell although Macdonnell is also clearly very able.
Have to say I'm not quite sure it was a great campaign: I think it looked good because (a) everyone was expecting a retread of 1983 on speed and (b) the Conservative campaign which got all the attention was an utter shambles. But certainly he looked much happier and as though he fet he belonged.
A purge might help. I Abbott still needs retiring, and as somebody who periodically suffers memory problems due to stress I have spent the last ten days feeling like a worm for mocking her now it appears there really was a medical problem - and Milne and Macdonnell still need to be removed to somewhere in line with their talents (former) and personalities (latter) (co-chairmen of Leicestershire Trawlers Inspectorate perhaps)?
I remember the Meyer stalking-horse thing. How did it work exactly? Presumably, a Tory leadership election was held annually, but it was normally an unopposed formality. But on that occasion Meyer put his hat in the ring and all hell broke loose.
It's not really my concern, but if the Conservatives don't hang together, they'll hang separately. None of them can afford to stand on principles.
Agreed. There is far too much hysteria going on at the moment.
For those of us who aren't Conservatives, it's hugely enjoyable. From the outside, the solution is obvious (Hammond as PM, Davis in charge of Brexit, aim to negotiate a Brexit deal that the House will support, i.e. one which is much softer than the headbangers dreamed of). But right now there seem to be a lot of Conservatives who haven't noticed that the election result pulled the rug from under them and that they can't dictate unilaterally what happens any more.
Except, as you and I know, the Tory party rules no longer permit a stalking horse challenge. There's simply a vote of no confidence, which if carried, means a new election in which the previous incumbent cannot stand.
Shouldn't these 'journalists' at least obtain a grade E in GCSE politics?
During the recess I would imagine if she doesn't buckle under the pressure. If she is as stubborn as she is known to be she won't cause a leader election while Parliament is sitting
Except, as you and I know, the Tory party rules no longer permit a stalking horse challenge. There's simply a vote of no confidence, which if carried, means a new election in which the previous incumbent cannot stand.
Shouldn't these 'journalists' at least obtain a grade E in GCSE politics?
I've made that point vehemently several times tonight.
To be fair to this journalist, it appears some Tory MPs don't understand the Tory leadership rules.
Currently listening to Buckley's Grace on my new record player after a morning at the shop, a sunny lunch on the banks of the Frome and an evening with the puppy. Life is good outside of Primrose Hill, too...
My parents babysat today, so we went into Cambridge together for the first time in ages. A couple of hours in the Sedgwick Museum of Earth Sciences, followed by a meal and a walk along the Cam to watch the Bumps.
Heaven.
As a travel writer, I think Cambridge is a strong contender for the most beautiful small city on earth.
Lovely young women bicycling past lovely old buildings. And the pub where they announced the discovery of DNA lies right across the road from a church built by King Cnut a thousand years before.
Cambridge is incredible. We forget how lucky we are.
Much as I am loathed to admit it, it is far prettier than my arms mater.
Except, as you and I know, the Tory party rules no longer permit a stalking horse challenge. There's simply a vote of no confidence, which if carried, means a new election in which the previous incumbent cannot stand.
Shouldn't these 'journalists' at least obtain a grade E in GCSE politics?
My conclusion is that the sources are low grade and the threat in the article is barely thought through. The Sunday Times story looks much better sourced.
I remember the Meyer stalking-horse thing. How did it work exactly? Presumably, a Tory leadership election was held annually, but it was normally an unopposed formality. But on that occasion Meyer put his hat in the ring and all hell broke loose.
Idiots. Can they not read their party rules. There is no such thing as a stalking horse - it's a voc followed - if necessary - by a full leadership election
To get the lead story that wrong is shocking for a newspaper that aspires to seriousness. That is basic stuff.
Anyone remember Sir Anthony Meyer ?
I do, he was my local MP when I was at school. Seemed quite bizarrely ill-suited to be the member of parliament for Rhyl though I imagine most of his vote would have been in the Colwyn Bay and the inland villages. Probably one of the last patrician Tories in politics (though Jacob Rees-Mogg has tried to revive the old model). He seemed to sacrifice a lot to challenge Thatcher, an act that he did
It's not really my concern, but if the Conservatives don't hang together, they'll hang separately. None of them can afford to stand on principles.
Agreed. There is far too much hysteria going on at the moment.
For those of us who aren't Conservatives, it's hugely enjoyable. From the outside, the solution is obvious (Hammond as PM, Davis in charge of Brexit, aim to negotiate a Brexit deal that the House will support, i.e. one which is much softer than the headbangers dreamed of). But right now there seem to be a lot of Conservatives who haven't noticed that the election result pulled the rug from under them and that they can't dictate unilaterally what happens any more.
They're still in the shock stage, I think. Just hope they get through the denial stage quicker than Williamglenn...
Looks like the Remainers have decided to back Amber Rudd in any leadership contest.
Having just come back from a drinks evening and BBQ to celebrate Eleanor Laing's 20 years in Parliament as MP for Epping Forest (a few other MPs there like James Brokenshire and Stephen Metcalfe) there was support for Davis, Boris and Hammond amongst members but did not hear anyone mention Rudd. Rudd may only run if Hammond doesn't otherwise I think Hammond will be the Remainer in the final 2 against either Boris or Davis
I have this theory that Corbyn is the most moderate, of the Labour inner circle. He is a bloody good campaigner - the best in parliament probably. But he needs sensible people around him. I was wrong about him in the sense that I was astounded by how good his is on the stump. But that's not to say the inner circle needs no modification, it does.
Yes, that seems fair. Certainly he's clearly less dangerous than Macdonnell although Macdonnell is also clearly very able.
Have to say I'm not quite sure it was a great campaign: I think it looked good because (a) everyone was expecting a retread of 1983 on speed and (b) the Conservative campaign which got all the attention was an utter shambles. But certainly he looked much happier and as though he fet he belonged.
A purge might help. I Abbott still needs retiring, and as somebody who periodically suffers memory problems due to stress I have spent the last ten days feeling like a worm for mocking her now it appears there really was a medical problem - and Milne and Macdonnell still need to be removed to somewhere in line with their talents (former) and personalities (latter) (co-chairmen of Leicestershire Trawlers Inspectorate perhaps)?
But he has confounded his critics including me.
And with that, good night.
That's one thing May has never resorted to - using a serious and genuinely life threatening illness, which type 1 diabetes certainly is, to explain away her poor performances. It would certainly be easy for her to do so.
As for Diane Abbott, I wouldn't put any level of cynicism or chicanery past her. She has form. Blunt, but there you are.
Sunday Times - Key dates for May are June 28th and 29th, when there's votes on the Queen's speech, 'If it looks like they will be lost, you have to strike'
FYI - Mike's holiday begins on June 29th, and I'm your guest editor for nearly three weeks.
The 'Theresa May: Strong, stable leadership in the national interest' Enamel Mug is still available at the Conservative Party online shop for just £15. Collectors' item
However, a Survation poll for this newspaper found that more than two thirds of voters – 69 per cent – support Mr Hammond’s soft Brexit approach. There is also strong opposition to Mrs May’s declaration that ‘no deal is better than a bad deal’, with 65 per cent calling for the UK to leave the EU with some form of agreement in place. And there is now a majority in favour of holding a second referendum to approve the Brexit deal.
Looks like the Remainers have decided to back Amber Rudd in any leadership contest.
If that becomes the first thing Party members hear about her leadership challenge, I think it will kill or at least damage her chances, depending on who she is against.
Anyone here know how long it would take to get a new leader/PM in place when a no confidence is triggered.(If that is how it works)
We have a country to run.
In 2003, the vote of confidence in IDS was triggered on the Tuesday 28th of October, and the vote was held on Wednesday 29th of October.
Michael Howard became Tory leader on the 6th of November.
So no leadership contest this time ? like with May.
That would depend on the two last standing candidates fixing the succession between them. So if it's Alastair's "Dream Team" of Hammond and Davis, the latter withdraws to allow Hammond to be PM in exchange for an understanding on Brexit policy and Davis' role in implementing it.
I have this theory that Corbyn is the most moderate, of the Labour inner circle. He is a bloody good campaigner - the best in parliament probably. But he needs sensible people around him. I was wrong about him in the sense that I was astounded by how good his is on the stump. But that's not to say the inner circle needs no modification, it does.
Yes, that seems fair. Certainly he's clearly less dangerous than Macdonnell although Macdonnell is also clearly very able.
Have to say I'm not quite sure it was a great campaign: I think it looked good because (a) everyone was expecting a retread of 1983 on speed and (b) the Conservative campaign which got all the attention was an utter shambles. But certainly he looked much happier and as though he fet he belonged.
A purge might help. I Abbott still needs retiring, and as somebody who periodically suffers memory problems due to stress I have spent the last ten days feeling like a worm for mocking her now it appears there really was a medical problem - and Milne and Macdonnell still need to be removed to somewhere in line with their talents (former) and personalities (latter) (co-chairmen of Leicestershire Trawlers Inspectorate perhaps)?
But he has confounded his critics including me.
And with that, good night.
That's one thing May has never resorted to - using a serious and genuinely life threatening illness, which type 1 diabetes certainly is, to explain away her poor performances. It would certainly be easy for her to do so.
As for Diane Abbott, I wouldn't put any level of cynicism or chicanery past her. She has form. Blunt, but there you are.
The problem with that statement (well, there are a few, but let's stick to just the one) is that for May to Explain away her poor performances she'd first have to admit that they were poor, something about which she still seems to be in denial. Despite Abbott's many faults, she seems to have demonstrated at least some willingness to listen to criticism. Maybe if she listens just a bit harder Labour could go into the next election with Cooper against Rudd, which would be a fight worth watching.
It's clear however that something, or probably several things together, went badly wrong at Grenfell Tower. It wasn't a once in centuries event that you couldn't reasonably mitigate. Either the building standards aren't fit for purpose or they aren't being enforced effectively.Very possibly both.
That article seems somewhat binary. We're all jumping the gun, but there are probably practical and affordable (if not always cheap) things landlords could do to make their buildings safer from fire, which don't involve either demolishing all tower blocks or attempting to put in a second staircase as they would be obliged to do in a new build.
Perhaps all those low-hanging fruit (e.g. better fire-resistant doors) had been done. You then get onto the expensive things.
As an example: AIUI passive gravity-fed sprinklers depend on a water supply at the top of the building. That's fine in a new building, however adding a few tonnes of water to the top of an existing building can be complex and expensive. Pumped-water sprinkler systems depend on a maintained source of power and are much more complex. (The two can be combined, with the tanks at the top of the building in a gravity-fed system being replenished via a pumped supply).
Even the weight of the water-filled pipes for sprinklers can be significant locally within a structure.
It should be remember that many millions had just been spent on this building. It wasn't as if it had been allowed to deteriorate. The sad thing is that these renovations had probably made the building less resistant to fire.
Anyone here know how long it would take to get a new leader/PM in place when a no confidence is triggered.(If that is how it works)
We have a country to run.
In 2003, the vote of confidence in IDS was triggered on the Tuesday 28th of October, and the vote was held on Wednesday 29th of October.
Michael Howard became Tory leader on the 6th of November.
So no leadership contest this time ? like with May.
That would depend on the two last standing candidates fixing the succession between them. So if it's Alastair's "Dream Team" of Hammond and Davis, the latter withdraws to allow Hammond to be PM in exchange for an understanding on Brexit policy and Davis' role in implementing it.
A cabinet minister told friends he was 'worried about [May's] state of mind'
OUCH.
She is toast. And she knows it. A miracle is needed to revive her.
Corbyn survived.
Corbyn had the backing of the membership, all the members I spoke to tonight expected May to stay on another 6 months at most, nobody was even considering the possibility she would lead the Tories much longer than that
However, a Survation poll for this newspaper found that more than two thirds of voters – 69 per cent – support Mr Hammond’s soft Brexit approach. There is also strong opposition to Mrs May’s declaration that ‘no deal is better than a bad deal’, with 65 per cent calling for the UK to leave the EU with some form of agreement in place. And there is now a majority in favour of holding a second referendum to approve the Brexit deal.
Mucking with constitution in the national party interest.
Why bother with a Queens Speech. We have a Strong and Stable PM and it would be a security risk to have her in parliament speaking to members of the party she leads. Better to just rule by edict as voted for in the referendum.
I wonder, is there any rise in Tory Party membership at the moment with people wanting a vote on any upcoming leadership election? I suspect that moral is low among tory supporters in general at the moment so probably not but does anybody know?
'Union leaders are plotting a ‘summer of discontent’ to cause chaos and force Theresa May from power. Militants linked to Unite, rail guards, teachers and junior doctors told followers this week to prepare for co-ordinated strikes and national protests, which would bring the country to a standstill. They pledged to defy the election result and help the Labour Party seize power like the Bolsheviks in 1917, stating: ‘We will have a Red October with Jeremy Corbyn as our Prime Minister!’
If anyone thinks Hammond, or worse still, Hunt, could be election winners for the Tories, they are sadly deluded.
When May goes, why not go for someone outside of the current cabinet? Kwarsi, or Jim Cleverley? Or Ruth if they can fix it. The Tories need someone who offers a bit of inspiration rather than perspiration. Hammond or Hunt = Corbyn majority.
James would be great. Not Kwarsi though.
An election winner is the only thing that matters at the moment. Or, everything we know is under threat if Corbyn gets his hands on power.
It must not be Hammond or Hunt. Or Gove. Those three could not win an election. Like someone said earlier, the Tories need an antidote to Corbyn. Ruth Davidson would be perfect - naturally enthusiastic, articulate, likeable, and most importantly, a proven winner. Taking the scalps of Salmond and Robertson was a remarkable achievement.
People would vote for her.
**EDIT**
Ask Labour who they would least like to go up against in an election. Pound to a penny the most common answer would be Davidson.
This is why I've suggested Boris, he could be a populist, he has a record of good campaigns and actually has won over white working class labour voters. He won 8% of GE labour voters in London and many LEAVE voters were won over by him.
He could be the antidote to populist Corbyn.
Not sure about BoJo anymore. I think he's damaged goods, and besides, his seat. It's no longer a safe one. A concerted 'progressive alliance' could unseat him at the next election.
I gave Boris my second preference (after the LibDem) for Mayor of London. I thought he was fun, authentic, would shake things up, a change from the usual politician. I liked him.
Now I hold him in contempt. He is duplicitous, unauthentic and incompetent. Damaged goods as you say. From a partisan point of view, I hope the Tories choose him as their leader. But I don't think they will.
For me, it has to be Ruth Davidson, by hook or by crook. Anyone who can scalp Alex Salmond and Angus Robertson in a general election is extra special in my view.
She'd dance rings around Uncle Corbyn in her sleep.
Shire twin-set and pearls brigade will not accept her in a million years.
That's what people said about Cameron. The shires will hold their nose and go with a leader that wins elections, as they did with DC.
Presumably the next announcement will be a period of national contemplation during which no Finance Bill will be brought forward before 2019, in order to minimise any opportunity for the government to be held to account by the house.
It looks desperate - squatting in Number 10 by removing any potential occasion for parliamentary challenge, but thereby accepting that hardly any meaningful legislation will be passed. It looks like we have a government that isn't going to risk trying to govern.
See, I wrote this last week, and I was called a lefty by idiots on here.
Tom Tugendhat, a Tory MP and former soldier who served in Iraq and Afghanistan, uses a piece in today’s Sunday Telegraph to raise his concerns.
He warns of the impact the Government’s apparent closeness with the DUP could have on peace in Northern Ireland, saying that often “perception can become reality”.
Mr Tugendhat says: “Is it worth it? Can an agreement creates the perception of a link between Conservatives, homophobic attitudes, Protestant militias and illiberal policies really yield the five years of stability our country so desperately needs?
"If it could, it would be worth the sacrifice in the national interest. But I need to be convinced.”
I wonder, is there any rise in Tory Party membership at the moment with people wanting a vote on any upcoming leadership election? I suspect that moral is low among tory supporters in general at the moment so probably not but does anybody know?
Maybe the tories might do the three Quid membership so you can vote on our new PM ;-)
Anyone here know how long it would take to get a new leader/PM in place when a no confidence is triggered.(If that is how it works)
We have a country to run.
In 2003, the vote of confidence in IDS was triggered on the Tuesday 28th of October, and the vote was held on Wednesday 29th of October.
Michael Howard became Tory leader on the 6th of November.
So no leadership contest this time ? like with May.
That would depend on the two last standing candidates fixing the succession between them. So if it's Alastair's "Dream Team" of Hammond and Davis, the latter withdraws to allow Hammond to be PM in exchange for an understanding on Brexit policy and Davis' role in implementing it.
But won't the grassroots want a say this time ?
If Theresa May lasts for two years, sees the immediately pressing Article 50 process through and then resigns, you would have the opportunity of a midterm election lasting a couple of months. As that Article 50 clock is ticking and they have already wasted three out of the ludicrously tight 18 months on an unnecessary election, there isn't the luxury of time.
'Union leaders are plotting a ‘summer of discontent’ to cause chaos and force Theresa May from power. Militants linked to Unite, rail guards, teachers and junior doctors told followers this week to prepare for co-ordinated strikes and national protests, which would bring the country to a standstill. They pledged to defy the election result and help the Labour Party seize power like the Bolsheviks in 1917, stating: ‘We will have a Red October with Jeremy Corbyn as our Prime Minister!’
"Comrades, this is your Leader. It is an honour to speak to you today, and I am honoured to be sailing with you on the maiden voyage of our Party's most recent achievement. Once more, we play our dangerous game, a game of chess against our old adversary — The Conservative Party. For a hundred years, your fathers before you and your older brothers played this game and played it well. But today the game is different. We have the advantage. It reminds me of the heady days of 1945 and Clement Attlee, when the world trembled at the sound of our Nationalisations! Well, they will tremble again — at the sound of our Glorious 2017 Manifesto. The order is: engage the Corbyn Drive!
"Comrades, our own Parliamentary Party don't know our full potential. They will do everything possible to test us; but they will only test their own embarrassment. We will leave our MPs behind, we will pass through the Conservative patrols, past their sonar nets, and lay off their largest constituency, and listen to their chortling and tittering... while we conduct Austerity Debates! Then, and when we are finished, the only sound they will hear is our laughter, while we sail to Brighton, where the sun is warm, and so is the... Comradeship!
Comments
UK: How much?
EU: This thing, that thing, the other thing.
UK: That seems a lot?
EU: Do you want a deal, trade, economy, jobs ...?
UK: Yeah... Think so.
EU: Well you better sign here...
UK: OK but nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
https://twitter.com/newsundayherald/status/876181747049930752
Now that is unusual. Look at Owen Jones this evening.
That deserves a thread on its own. I agree your scenario is possible, especially if they don't believe he was robbed.
I don't think it's actually possible to resolve all the various drivers to the satisfaction of the electorate, the Conservative Party, and the EU. Certainly not with the politicians we've got.
Europe will tear you apart, again.
Sadly those days are behind it.
Well over half those attending were white. They don't look like the angry young black men that I have been watching on TV for the past three days. However, they certainly look as though they would be easier to handle. Hand-picked maybe?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/17/secret-plot-oust-theresa-may-ministers-threaten-stalking-horse/
Heaven.
You see, I really am in a good mood!
Also the direction of travel is away from a hard Brexit and they will be outvoted in the HOC
Have to say I'm not quite sure it was a great campaign: I think it looked good because (a) everyone was expecting a retread of 1983 on speed and (b) the Conservative campaign which got all the attention was an utter shambles. But certainly he looked much happier and as though he fet he belonged.
A purge might help. I Abbott still needs retiring, and as somebody who periodically suffers memory problems due to stress I have spent the last ten days feeling like a worm for mocking her now it appears there really was a medical problem - and Milne and Macdonnell still need to be removed to somewhere in line with their talents (former) and personalities (latter) (co-chairmen of Leicestershire Trawlers Inspectorate perhaps)?
But he has confounded his critics including me.
And with that, good night.
As long as that?
Feel sorry for May,I would have waited some months at least.
That's a career ender.
Shouldn't these 'journalists' at least obtain a grade E in GCSE politics?
To be fair to this journalist, it appears some Tory MPs don't understand the Tory leadership rules.
OUCH.
As for Diane Abbott, I wouldn't put any level of cynicism or chicanery past her. She has form. Blunt, but there you are.
FYI - Mike's holiday begins on June 29th, and I'm your guest editor for nearly three weeks.
We have a country to run.
Michael Howard became Tory leader on the 6th of November.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4614222/Theresa-fights-political-life.html
nationalparty interest.As an example: AIUI passive gravity-fed sprinklers depend on a water supply at the top of the building. That's fine in a new building, however adding a few tonnes of water to the top of an existing building can be complex and expensive. Pumped-water sprinkler systems depend on a maintained source of power and are much more complex. (The two can be combined, with the tanks at the top of the building in a gravity-fed system being replenished via a pumped supply).
Even the weight of the water-filled pipes for sprinklers can be significant locally within a structure.
It should be remember that many millions had just been spent on this building. It wasn't as if it had been allowed to deteriorate. The sad thing is that these renovations had probably made the building less resistant to fire.
Last time, everyone just assumed May had them, when she didn't.
This time, it can't just be assumed or taken on trust.
My instinct is that Rudd isn't yet proven.
Whereas I would be confident that Boris, Davis and Hammond could all fight a good campaign and perform strongly in TV debates.
'Union leaders are plotting a ‘summer of discontent’ to cause chaos and force Theresa May from power.
Militants linked to Unite, rail guards, teachers and junior doctors told followers this week to prepare for co-ordinated strikes and national protests, which would bring the country to a standstill.
They pledged to defy the election result and help the Labour Party seize power like the Bolsheviks in 1917, stating: ‘We will have a Red October with Jeremy Corbyn as our Prime Minister!’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4612250/Militants-warn-summer-discontent.html
It looks desperate - squatting in Number 10 by removing any potential occasion for parliamentary challenge, but thereby accepting that hardly any meaningful legislation will be passed. It looks like we have a government that isn't going to risk trying to govern.
Tom Tugendhat, a Tory MP and former soldier who served in Iraq and Afghanistan, uses a piece in today’s Sunday Telegraph to raise his concerns.
He warns of the impact the Government’s apparent closeness with the DUP could have on peace in Northern Ireland, saying that often “perception can become reality”.
Mr Tugendhat says: “Is it worth it? Can an agreement creates the perception of a link between Conservatives, homophobic attitudes, Protestant militias and illiberal policies really yield the five years of stability our country so desperately needs?
"If it could, it would be worth the sacrifice in the national interest. But I need to be convinced.”
"Comrades, our own Parliamentary Party don't know our full potential. They will do everything possible to test us; but they will only test their own embarrassment. We will leave our MPs behind, we will pass through the Conservative patrols, past their sonar nets, and lay off their largest constituency, and listen to their chortling and tittering... while we conduct Austerity Debates! Then, and when we are finished, the only sound they will hear is our laughter, while we sail to Brighton, where the sun is warm, and so is the... Comradeship!
"A great day, Comrades! We sail into history!"
But of the 4 you mention I would probably rank them Davis, Hammond, Boris, Rudd