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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » TMay drops to new ratings low & comes under fire for not meeti

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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,328
    edited June 2017
    Sean_F said:

    Even after her successful appearance before her MPs at which she acknowledged it was her mess and she was going to clear it up, some commentators here and elsewhere suggested she was just one mistake away from losing her position.

    Is this that mistake?

    Given the reaction to Sadiq Khan, it does not look like a mistake.
    No similar reaction to Corbyn though.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JgadBmUiWI
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,503

    People asking Khan to apologise for not supporting Corbyn

    If this lot ever get near power..
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    PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    Jason said:

    TGOHF said:

    Political Genie‏ @PoliticalGenie 3m3 minutes ago

    #LondonMayor @SadiqKhan has now left the building to boos and quite a bit of hostility and anger. #GrenfellTower

    Political Genie‏ @PoliticalGenie

    #LondonMayor still holed up in community centre after being confronted by locals at #GrenfellTower, now heavy police presence.

    #LondonMayor @SadiqKhan now hiding in community centre after being set upon by local residents at #GrenfellTower

    Now we know why May didn't go. There would have been a full blown riot, and people would have got hurt. She did the right thing staying away.
    Yep, cowardice is a great look in a PM.

    Doesn't really explain a failure to visit victims in hospital or some other carefully controlled environment. If only she and her team had experience of arranging closed visits well away from the general public to avoid embarrassment....
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    calum said:
    Its not a good look when the Mayor turns up and needs 10+ of them to surround him to keep him safe.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,503

    May has shown solemn dignity.
    Corbyn has tried to milk this tragedy ruthlessly and has looked like he's been enjoying himself.

    MAYBOT
    ...
    ...
    ...
    INSTALLING 'SOLEMN DIGNITY'
    ...
    ...
    ...
    FAILED
    ...
    ...
    ...
    TRY INSTALLING MODULE 'HIDE FROM THE PROLES' (Y/N)?
    Lol!
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061
    marke09 said:

    if t was an exploding fridge arent the manufacturers to blame as well - fridges should not explode

    The investigation's ongoing: it might be the fridge was a secondary effect of an already-existing fire, not the primary cause. I.e. it was the first thing the man noticed, but the fire had started elsewhere.
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    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,216
    edited June 2017

    Pong said:

    "Regulation has been denounced as “red tape” and the Conservatives have consistently voted against legislation to regulate landlords’ obligations better. Building regulations for fire prevention and safety have not been reviewed for more than a decade, even though most regulations are re-examined every couple of years to keep pace with changing technology and materials.

    The right has gleefully pointed to Brexit as an opportunity for a “bonfire” of red tape. Sparks from a bonfire, however, can sometimes catch. "

    https://www.ft.com/content/80c884d4-51af-11e7-a1f2-db19572361bb

    Increased regulation means increased costs which, in this case, means increased rents.

    There's a trade off for everything.
    Regulation is often there to protect the weak and powerless. As an environmentalist, if this is made clearer I for one will delight.

    May has shown solemn dignity.
    Corbyn has tried to milk this tragedy ruthlessly and has looked like he's been enjoying himself.

    Think you're looking through the wrong end of the telescope again Moniker. Try lifting the scales...
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    JasonJason Posts: 1,614

    Khan needing Police protection from a very angry crowd

    The residents aren't going to get much sympathy if they start acting as a mob
    Their passions have been inflamed by irresponsible opportunists like Corbyn and Lammy.
    Yup, and May gets called a coward for not going to meet the residents, although she was probably strongly advised not to go by the police and her security advisers.

    The prism of instant, insatiable 24 hours-a-day media, either looking for a victim or a perpetrator. Nothing else matters.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Disgusting corbyn fan in crowd shouting "Why didn't you support corbyn Mr Khan"

    Woman at end of khan interview shouting Fcuk you number of times to that guy.
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    BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    There is that smell in the air of potential riots. Corbyn is stirring it up and May is struggling to keep control. Khan is not going to be respected.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Mr. England, the far left lunatics (such as the Shadow Chancellor) are already planning a large march in London to protest against democracy delivering the wrong result.
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    GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    edited June 2017
    Put the anger on display, mix it with McDonnell's recent and past comments about getting people on the street and the goal of a violent insurrection has real potential to take off.

    They were looking for a catalyst to bring down the whole establishment, they now have it.

    Quite frightening.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    TGOHF said:

    Sean_F said:

    Even after her successful appearance before her MPs at which she acknowledged it was her mess and she was going to clear it up, some commentators here and elsewhere suggested she was just one mistake away from losing her position.

    Is this that mistake?

    Given the reaction to Sadiq Khan, it does not look like a mistake.
    Unsurprisingly the PM has better intel on the ground.
    Dear god .... A Prime Minister who can't face victims and relatives who have lost everything isn't fit to hold high office.

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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    Disgusting corbyn fan in crowd shouting "Why didn't you support corbyn Mr Khan"

    Woman at end of khan interview shouting Fcuk you number of times to that guy.

    The first taste of Corbynite red mob terror.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291

    Put the anger on display, mix it with McDonnell's recent and past comments about getting people on the street and the goal of a violent insurrection has real potential to take off.

    They were looking for a catalyst to bring down the whole establishment, they now have it.

    Quite frightening.

    With Jezza calling for people's home to be nicked....
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,983


    Regulation is often there to protect the weak and powerless. As an environmentalist, if this is made clearer I for one will delight

    Much regulation is there to protect the vested interests of large companies against innovations and small companies. Such is the cost of regulation and registration now that only the big companies can afford to do it. Not all regulation is bad but for sure not all regulation is good either.
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    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    Put the anger on display, mix it with McDonnell's recent and past comments about getting people on the street and the goal of a violent insurrection has real potential to take off.

    They were looking for a catalyst to bring down the whole establishment, they now have it.

    Quite frightening.

    Yep.

    Youngest daughter is in Acton and eldest granddaughter in Stoke Newington, will tell them to be very careful over the weekend.
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    TypoTypo Posts: 195
    Doesn't look like Sadiq will be able to shield himself from the deserved onslaught that is heading in the direction of each and every authority. Has he initiated anything to tackle it even examine the deficiencies of London's tower blocks since be took office?
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    JackW said:

    TGOHF said:

    Sean_F said:

    Even after her successful appearance before her MPs at which she acknowledged it was her mess and she was going to clear it up, some commentators here and elsewhere suggested she was just one mistake away from losing her position.

    Is this that mistake?

    Given the reaction to Sadiq Khan, it does not look like a mistake.
    Unsurprisingly the PM has better intel on the ground.
    Dear god .... A Prime Minister who can't face victims and relatives who have lost everything isn't fit to hold high office.

    Elect Prince Harry as PM..
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Disgusting corbyn fan in crowd shouting "Why didn't you support corbyn Mr Khan"

    Woman at end of khan interview shouting Fcuk you number of times to that guy.

    The first taste of Corbynite red mob terror.
    Yes it's worrying,a disaster and number priority is a political leader.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,127

    Pong said:

    "Regulation has been denounced as “red tape” and the Conservatives have consistently voted against legislation to regulate landlords’ obligations better. Building regulations for fire prevention and safety have not been reviewed for more than a decade, even though most regulations are re-examined every couple of years to keep pace with changing technology and materials.

    The right has gleefully pointed to Brexit as an opportunity for a “bonfire” of red tape. Sparks from a bonfire, however, can sometimes catch. "

    https://www.ft.com/content/80c884d4-51af-11e7-a1f2-db19572361bb

    Increased regulation means increased costs which, in this case, means increased rents.

    There's a trade off for everything.
    Regulation is often there to protect the weak and powerless. As an environmentalist, if this is made clearer I for one will delight.
    Its easy to say that.

    But when people's costs are higher and their wages are lower and their services fewer they don't like it.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,356

    Put the anger on display, mix it with McDonnell's recent and past comments about getting people on the street and the goal of a violent insurrection has real potential to take off.

    They were looking for a catalyst to bring down the whole establishment, they now have it.

    Quite frightening.

    Yep.

    Youngest daughter is in Acton and eldest granddaughter in Stoke Newington, will tell them to be very careful over the weekend.
    Ironically this could be a danger moment for Corbyn and especially McDonnell
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    marke09 said:

    if t was an exploding fridge arent the manufacturers to blame as well - fridges should not explode

    The investigation's ongoing: it might be the fridge was a secondary effect of an already-existing fire, not the primary cause. I.e. it was the first thing the man noticed, but the fire had started elsewhere.
    In reality, it could be anything. Discarded cigarette, burnt toast, candle, phone charger, arson, anything. If the seat of fire is destroyed, we may never know, although fire investigation is pretty good these days. The bigger issue for me is the fire spread and the evacuation failures.
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    PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    Put the anger on display, mix it with McDonnell's recent and past comments about getting people on the street and the goal of a violent insurrection has real potential to take off.

    They were looking for a catalyst to bring down the whole establishment, they now have it.

    Quite frightening.

    With Jezza calling for people's home to be nicked....
    I think the whole point was that he was calling for financial investments (residential property used as a piggy bank *not* somebody's home) to be used to house those who have lost their homes. Still a property rights issue, but not the one you imply.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,983
    Brom said:

    There is that smell in the air of potential riots. Corbyn is stirring it up and May is struggling to keep control. Khan is not going to be respected.

    McDonnell is asking people to take to the streets
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    jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,261
    Just too many emotions right now. Political games being played as well which is wrong.
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    BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    isam said:

    Brom said:

    There is that smell in the air of potential riots. Corbyn is stirring it up and May is struggling to keep control. Khan is not going to be respected.

    McDonnell is asking people to take to the streets
    Not sure he will go that far! Not overtly anyway
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,399
    GIN1138 said:

    FPT


    MikeL said:

    What's going on on here?

    Odds on another GE this year are unchanged since last night at about 3-1.

    Why the hysteria?

    Because May has blown her majority in a pointless election, destroyed her personal ratings in the process (see today's YouGove data) her deal with the DUP look dead in the water and she's even managed to **** up her response to a national disaster.

    Otherwise everything is fine. We're all fine now. How are you?
    LOL
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061

    marke09 said:

    if t was an exploding fridge arent the manufacturers to blame as well - fridges should not explode

    The investigation's ongoing: it might be the fridge was a secondary effect of an already-existing fire, not the primary cause. I.e. it was the first thing the man noticed, but the fire had started elsewhere.
    In reality, it could be anything. Discarded cigarette, burnt toast, candle, phone charger, arson, anything. If the seat of fire is destroyed, we may never know, although fire investigation is pretty good these days. The bigger issue for me is the fire spread and the evacuation failures.
    Have to agree with that. The report should be fascinating, if tragic.

    One thing I'd like to see asked: with all the fires occurring on cladding around the world, why did our regulatory bodies not take another look at our rules? Near misses are as valuable as actual incidents for learning lessons.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    isam said:

    Brom said:

    There is that smell in the air of potential riots. Corbyn is stirring it up and May is struggling to keep control. Khan is not going to be respected.

    McDonnell is asking people to take to the streets
    Is that true ?
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    GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123

    Put the anger on display, mix it with McDonnell's recent and past comments about getting people on the street and the goal of a violent insurrection has real potential to take off.

    They were looking for a catalyst to bring down the whole establishment, they now have it.

    Quite frightening.

    Yep.

    Youngest daughter is in Acton and eldest granddaughter in Stoke Newington, will tell them to be very careful over the weekend.
    Ironically this could be a danger moment for Corbyn and especially McDonnell
    Long term danger of course in the wider country but I'd be a lot more worried about the next week and what's going to happen in London.

    I've stopped underestimating Corbyn. He could turn London into a warzone if he chose to.

    He needs to be called out for his good cop bad cop act with McDonnell. Time for someone to peel away the Teflon.
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    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited June 2017

    In reality, it could be anything. Discarded cigarette, burnt toast, candle, phone charger, arson, anything. If the seat of fire is destroyed, we may never know, although fire investigation is pretty good these days. The bigger issue for me is the fire spread and the evacuation failures.

    Supposedly fires in tower blocks are quite common? It seems the architects and firefighters have both got a pretty good handle on how to tackle this normally, given how rarely they escalate to major disasters like this.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,983
    Typo said:

    Doesn't look like Sadiq will be able to shield himself from the deserved onslaught that is heading in the direction of each and every authority. Has he initiated anything to tackle it even examine the deficiencies of London's tower blocks since be took office?

    Would he even know? Has he initiated anything to examine the possibility of fires on the underground? Of a plane crashing on London? Of a bridge collapsing over the Thames?

    There are so many ways in which things can go wrong but which one would assume are planned for and protected against. Should an incoming mayor assume that every one before him has been criminally negligent and should instigate examinations and investigations into every aspect of our daily lives?

    I am afraid people here are trying to use this tragedy to take cheap shots at whichever politician they happen to dislike.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Mr. Brom, could be wrong but I think I read that McDonnell had already called for a march in London to 'force' May out of Downing Street.
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    TypoTypo Posts: 195

    Put the anger on display, mix it with McDonnell's recent and past comments about getting people on the street and the goal of a violent insurrection has real potential to take off.

    They were looking for a catalyst to bring down the whole establishment, they now have it.

    Quite frightening.

    It is going to be a very warm weekend too. People will be outdoors and drinking.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Typo said:

    Doesn't look like Sadiq will be able to shield himself from the deserved onslaught that is heading in the direction of each and every authority. Has he initiated anything to tackle it even examine the deficiencies of London's tower blocks since be took office?

    No but he's introduced a bus hopper ticket.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,399
    edited June 2017

    Pulpstar said:

    Sadiq Khan getting serious hassle. Reports of bottle thrown, very angry scenes, police reinforcements. From Sky.

    I really don't understand how anyone could hold Khan responsible for what has happened.
    It appears to be general anger. That they feel they are an underclass in that area. It's not Khan but the establishment they appear to be furious with.
    They are an underclass in that area.

    Inequality, the lack of hope, having your inferiority constantly rubbed in your face isn't good.
    Apparently the rent was 2 grand a month for one of those flats if you're private. Beggars belief.
    So approximately the gross annual wage in the country to live in a council block.

    There will be millionaire property owners and people earnings hundreds of thousands per year living next to those on minimum wage and social security.

    SeanT's street is another example.

    This is not healthy for society.
    Yeah but that's London. Only about three districts are solely non-prolely (SW3, some streets in Maida Vale, some in Hampstead, some in Mayfair). Everywhere else the two mingle and I think it's healthy. Or "vibrant" as some might put it.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,399
    Any violence on the streets would be Lab snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

    Then again, knowing Tezza's luck...
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    jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,261

    Mr. Brom, could be wrong but I think I read that McDonnell had already called for a march in London to 'force' May out of Downing Street.

    Yep 1st July march I believe. He wants a million plus people to march.
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    BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Mr. Brom, could be wrong but I think I read that McDonnell had already called for a march in London to 'force' May out of Downing Street.

    Just read the telegraph link. Blimey. Other media hasn't covered which is probably just as well.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    On McDonnell and the march (replies suggest he didn't actually say 'force'):
    https://twitter.com/Paul1Singh/status/875328886841761792
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,915
    Typo said:

    Doesn't look like Sadiq will be able to shield himself from the deserved onslaught that is heading in the direction of each and every authority. Has he initiated anything to tackle it even examine the deficiencies of London's tower blocks since be took office?

    How is Khan responsible? We don't know the reasons for this disaster. We can only speculate.
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    BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    edited June 2017
    PAW said:

    "Boris Johnson throws support behind tunnel to replace Hammersmith flyover" - start good news in London by funding it now - restart some of his schemes. It isn't too expensive to complete the garden bridge as well.

    Oh super. More cars funnelled into central London. More congestion, more casualties, more pollution.

    But hey, there are some more trees to look at just off Coin Street.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,127
    TOPPING said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sadiq Khan getting serious hassle. Reports of bottle thrown, very angry scenes, police reinforcements. From Sky.

    I really don't understand how anyone could hold Khan responsible for what has happened.
    It appears to be general anger. That they feel they are an underclass in that area. It's not Khan but the establishment they appear to be furious with.
    They are an underclass in that area.

    Inequality, the lack of hope, having your inferiority constantly rubbed in your face isn't good.
    Apparently the rent was 2 grand a month for one of those flats if you're private. Beggars belief.
    So approximately the gross annual wage in the country to live in a council block.

    There will be millionaire property owners and people earnings hundreds of thousands per year living next to those on minimum wage and social security.

    SeanT's street is another example.

    This is not healthy for society.
    Yeah but that's London. Only about three districts are solely non-prolely (SW3, some streets in Maida Vale, some in Hampstead, some in Mayfair). Everywhere else the two mingle and I think it's healthy. Or "vibrant" as some might put it.
    Easy to say that when you're one of those at the top looking down.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuTMWgOduFM
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,399

    PAW said:

    "Boris Johnson throws support behind tunnel to replace Hammersmith flyover" - start good news in London by funding it now - restart some of his schemes. It isn't too expensive to complete the garden bridge as well.

    Oh super. More cars funnelled into central London. More congestion, more casualties, more pollution.

    Yebbut talking about accidents waiting to happen - the Hammersmith flyover collapsing would surprise precisely no one.
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    BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    TOPPING said:

    PAW said:

    "Boris Johnson throws support behind tunnel to replace Hammersmith flyover" - start good news in London by funding it now - restart some of his schemes. It isn't too expensive to complete the garden bridge as well.

    Oh super. More cars funnelled into central London. More congestion, more casualties, more pollution.

    Yebbut talking about accidents waiting to happen - the Hammersmith flyover collapsing would surprise precisely no one.
    So drop it. Lots of cities have taken out elevated roads to great success - Seoul for example. How many cars do we want? Far fewer I'd suggest.
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    Mr. Brom, could be wrong but I think I read that McDonnell had already called for a march in London to 'force' May out of Downing Street.

    Extraordinary;

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_on_Rome
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,399

    TOPPING said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sadiq Khan getting serious hassle. Reports of bottle thrown, very angry scenes, police reinforcements. From Sky.

    I really don't understand how anyone could hold Khan responsible for what has happened.
    It appears to be general anger. That they feel they are an underclass in that area. It's not Khan but the establishment they appear to be furious with.
    They are an underclass in that area.

    Inequality, the lack of hope, having your inferiority constantly rubbed in your face isn't good.
    Apparently the rent was 2 grand a month for one of those flats if you're private. Beggars belief.
    So approximately the gross annual wage in the country to live in a council block.

    There will be millionaire property owners and people earnings hundreds of thousands per year living next to those on minimum wage and social security.

    SeanT's street is another example.

    This is not healthy for society.
    Yeah but that's London. Only about three districts are solely non-prolely (SW3, some streets in Maida Vale, some in Hampstead, some in Mayfair). Everywhere else the two mingle and I think it's healthy. Or "vibrant" as some might put it.
    Easy to say that when you're one of those at the top looking down.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuTMWgOduFM
    So just how redistributive would you like to be?
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    TypoTypo Posts: 195
    Sean_F said:

    Typo said:

    Doesn't look like Sadiq will be able to shield himself from the deserved onslaught that is heading in the direction of each and every authority. Has he initiated anything to tackle it even examine the deficiencies of London's tower blocks since be took office?

    How is Khan responsible? We don't know the reasons for this disaster. We can only speculate.
    In what way did I say he is responsible?

    What I clearly meant was that if questions are rightly being asked of government then Khan should also expect them to be asked of his office. There is little point in him taking an accusatory stance on the failure of others if his own office hasn't done anything to tackle or even examine the problem of physically deficient housing stock.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,120
    edited June 2017
    Inevitably May would see her ratings fall after the election but I doubt there will be another election for years, only Labour wants one while the Tories and SNP certainly do not and even if there was Theresa May would not be leading the Tories in it. However I really don't see why May doing photo ops eith Greenfell residents like Corbyn will resolve anything beyond being a PR stunt she did meet the emergency services who are the ones actually dealing with the situation on the ground

    Interestingly while May polls below her party for the first time despite his good election result Corbyn also still polls below his party too
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061
    Andrew said:

    In reality, it could be anything. Discarded cigarette, burnt toast, candle, phone charger, arson, anything. If the seat of fire is destroyed, we may never know, although fire investigation is pretty good these days. The bigger issue for me is the fire spread and the evacuation failures.

    Supposedly fires in tower blocks are quite common? It seems the architects and firefighters have both got a pretty good handle on how to tackle this normally, given how rarely they escalate to major disasters like this.
    Which is why I've been wondering what was different this time, and an obvious (although perhaps incorrect) answer appears to be the renovation and especially the new cladding, given the events that happened around the world.

    I haven't been able to find much about the original 1970s structure: whether it's wholly reinforced concrete or a steel frame with concrete cladding.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,957

    On McDonnell and the march (replies suggest he didn't actually say 'force'):
    https://twitter.com/Paul1Singh/status/875328886841761792

    McDonnell does not believe change will be secured through Parliament. He believes it can only happen from the streets.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,295
    jonny83 said:

    Mr. Brom, could be wrong but I think I read that McDonnell had already called for a march in London to 'force' May out of Downing Street.

    Yep 1st July march I believe. He wants a million plus people to march.
    What a good idea when security is at such a heightened level. Wasting massive amounts of police time.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,120

    calum said:
    My sense is that the Brexit negotiations over Northern Ireland will effectively mark the end of the Good Friday Agreement and a new settlement will need to be negotiated this year. The stakes are high.
    Sinn Fein effectively ended powersharing anyway when they refused to work with the DUP months ago
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    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,917

    Who knew that Tories letting the poor burn would have "bad optics"?

    The people on the ground seem to be venting their anger on Khan. I wonder why.
    Trying to insulate that Khan has some responsibility is a pretty nasty even for you.
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited June 2017
    In addition to my suggestion of bolloxing 5% of the greenbelt, maybe it's time for the govt to borrow a trillion quid at 0% and build 5 new Milton Keyneses over the next decade.

    Spur them off hs 1/2, or something, subsidize season tickets, wire in terabit internet and give tax breaks for companies relocating staff from london.

    They'll be soulless at first but economically successful over time.

    Just do it.

    Screw the NIMBYs.

    2k/month for a flat in that tower block is insane. The housing market is dysfunctional and fuelling social unrest. It's a pressure cooker. Release the valve.
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    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    edited June 2017

    On McDonnell and the march (replies suggest he didn't actually say 'force'):
    https://twitter.com/Paul1Singh/status/875328886841761792

    McDonnell does not believe change will be secured through Parliament. He believes it can only happen from the streets.
    Why would they risk all they've achieved in the last couple of months?
    Like any sane person I'm horrified by the fire but encouraging some sort of insurrection is just going to confirm the worst fears of people wrt to Corbyn/McDonell. Particularly out of London.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,983

    On McDonnell and the march (replies suggest he didn't actually say 'force'):
    https://twitter.com/Paul1Singh/status/875328886841761792

    McDonnell does not believe change will be secured through Parliament. He believes it can only happen from the streets.
    This 'apology' was so insincere I almost threw up. Even then he had to try and take credit for being some kind of saviour

    https://youtu.be/_gq3rv8Gjko
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    TypoTypo Posts: 195
    Pong said:

    In addition to my suggestion of bolloxing 5% of the greenbelt, maybe it's time for the govt to borrow a trillion quid at 0% and build 5 new Milton Keyneses over the next decade.

    Spur them off hs 1/2, or something, subsidize season tickets, wire in terabit internet and give tax breaks for companies relocating staff from london.

    They'll be soulless at first but economically successful over time.

    Just do it.

    Screw the NIMBYs.

    2k/month for a flat in that tower block is insane. The housing market is dysfunctional and fuelling social unrest.

    And do it in the North.

    Sounds good.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,120

    She's awful. Clearly the latest software patch hasn't worked and we've got an even worse Maybot.

    Bring back the posh boys.

    I take it you are therefore endorsing the old Etonian Boris over the comprehensive educated Hammond and the grammar school educated Davis?
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    jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,261
    May did the right thing judging from the Khan scenes, with her being the Prime Minister it would have been a lot worse.
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    PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    Typo - need to be near jobs, though.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,957
    midwinter said:

    On McDonnell and the march (replies suggest he didn't actually say 'force'):
    https://twitter.com/Paul1Singh/status/875328886841761792

    McDonnell does not believe change will be secured through Parliament. He believes it can only happen from the streets.
    Why would they risk all they've achieved in the last couple of months?
    Like any sane person I'm horrified by the fire but encouraging some sort of insurrection is just going to confirm the worst fears of people wrt to Corbyn/McDonell. Particularly out of London.

    McDonnell is really not that interested in Labour's seat count except to the extent it gives the far left control within Labour. He is the most extreme of the gang.

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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    edited June 2017
    TOPPING said:

    Any violence on the streets would be Lab snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

    Then again, knowing Tezza's luck...

    She could use Boris' water cannon at last?
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,775
    Andrew said:

    In reality, it could be anything. Discarded cigarette, burnt toast, candle, phone charger, arson, anything. If the seat of fire is destroyed, we may never know, although fire investigation is pretty good these days. The bigger issue for me is the fire spread and the evacuation failures.

    Supposedly fires in tower blocks are quite common? It seems the architects and firefighters have both got a pretty good handle on how to tackle this normally, given how rarely they escalate to major disasters like this.
    The fire chief was on the radio this morning saying it was different from anything anyone had previously experienced and warned against making assumptions about the causes.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,561
    HYUFD said:

    She's awful. Clearly the latest software patch hasn't worked and we've got an even worse Maybot.

    Bring back the posh boys.

    I take it you are therefore endorsing the old Etonian Boris over the comprehensive educated Hammond and the grammar school educated Davis?
    Boris isn't posh, he went to Eton on a King's Scholarship.

    That makes Boris a fecking pleb.
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    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112

    midwinter said:

    On McDonnell and the march (replies suggest he didn't actually say 'force'):
    https://twitter.com/Paul1Singh/status/875328886841761792

    McDonnell does not believe change will be secured through Parliament. He believes it can only happen from the streets.
    Why would they risk all they've achieved in the last couple of months?
    Like any sane person I'm horrified by the fire but encouraging some sort of insurrection is just going to confirm the worst fears of people wrt to Corbyn/McDonell. Particularly out of London.

    McDonnell is really not that interested in Labour's seat count except to the extent it gives the far left control within Labour. He is the most extreme of the gang.

    Ok thanks. Come back Cameron and rescue us from the lunatics and incompetents. Asap
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    If this one million march does go ahead and we see riots or shops trashed,what will this do for Corbyn's cred in the eye's of the british public ?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,561

    TOPPING said:

    Any violence on the streets would be Lab snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

    Then again, knowing Tezza's luck...

    She could use Boris' water cannon at last?
    Fnarr, fnarr.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,127
    Pong said:

    In addition to my suggestion of bolloxing 5% of the greenbelt, maybe it's time for the govt to borrow a trillion quid at 0% and build 5 new Milton Keyneses over the next decade.

    Spur them off hs 1/2, or something, subsidize season tickets, wire in terabit internet and give tax breaks for companies relocating staff from london.

    They'll be soulless at first but economically successful over time.

    Just do it.

    Screw the NIMBYs.

    2k/month for a flat in that tower block is insane. The housing market is dysfunctional and fuelling social unrest. It's a pressure cooker. Release the valve.

    Make it is easier to build new housing in low cost areas with good transport links.

    More housing in town centres instead of ever increasing numbers of coffee shops, bookies, charity shops, quid shops and other tat shops.

    And as you say improve internet speeds.
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    Pong said:

    In addition to my suggestion of bolloxing 5% of the greenbelt, maybe it's time for the govt to borrow a trillion quid at 0% and build 5 new Milton Keyneses over the next decade.

    Spur them off hs 1/2, or something, subsidize season tickets, wire in terabit internet and give tax breaks for companies relocating staff from london.

    They'll be soulless at first but economically successful over time.

    Just do it.

    Screw the NIMBYs.

    2k/month for a flat in that tower block is insane. The housing market is dysfunctional and fuelling social unrest. It's a pressure cooker. Release the valve.

    But people want to live in London.

    London is too low density anyway - no need to build new cities, just knock down parts of London and build rows of 6 story or more apartments like most other European cities do.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,983
    midwinter said:

    midwinter said:

    On McDonnell and the march (replies suggest he didn't actually say 'force'):
    https://twitter.com/Paul1Singh/status/875328886841761792

    McDonnell does not believe change will be secured through Parliament. He believes it can only happen from the streets.
    Why would they risk all they've achieved in the last couple of months?
    Like any sane person I'm horrified by the fire but encouraging some sort of insurrection is just going to confirm the worst fears of people wrt to Corbyn/McDonell. Particularly out of London.

    McDonnell is really not that interested in Labour's seat count except to the extent it gives the far left control within Labour. He is the most extreme of the gang.

    Ok thanks. Come back Cameron and rescue us from the lunatics and incompetents. Asap
    Cameron was one of the incompetents. His arrogance never, for one minute, let him consider he might not have the support of the public.
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    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,216

    If this one million march does go ahead and we see riots or shops trashed,what will this do for Corbyn's cred in the eye's of the british public ?

    Contemplating entryism, Johnno?
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,775
    Residents probably don't know the difference or make the distinction between the Mayor of London and the Borough of Kensington. As far as they are concerned those are the people responsible for what happened.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,503

    midwinter said:

    On McDonnell and the march (replies suggest he didn't actually say 'force'):
    https://twitter.com/Paul1Singh/status/875328886841761792

    McDonnell does not believe change will be secured through Parliament. He believes it can only happen from the streets.
    Why would they risk all they've achieved in the last couple of months?
    Like any sane person I'm horrified by the fire but encouraging some sort of insurrection is just going to confirm the worst fears of people wrt to Corbyn/McDonell. Particularly out of London.

    McDonnell is really not that interested in Labour's seat count except to the extent it gives the far left control within Labour. He is the most extreme of the gang.

    And how do you feel about the prospect of him becoming Chancellor of the Exchequer soon?
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,127
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sadiq Khan getting serious hassle. Reports of bottle thrown, very angry scenes, police reinforcements. From Sky.

    I really don't understand how anyone could hold Khan responsible for what has happened.
    It appears to be general anger. That they feel they are an underclass in that area. It's not Khan but the establishment they appear to be furious with.
    They are an underclass in that area.

    Inequality, the lack of hope, having your inferiority constantly rubbed in your face isn't good.
    Apparently the rent was 2 grand a month for one of those flats if you're private. Beggars belief.
    So approximately the gross annual wage in the country to live in a council block.

    There will be millionaire property owners and people earnings hundreds of thousands per year living next to those on minimum wage and social security.

    SeanT's street is another example.

    This is not healthy for society.
    Yeah but that's London. Only about three districts are solely non-prolely (SW3, some streets in Maida Vale, some in Hampstead, some in Mayfair). Everywhere else the two mingle and I think it's healthy. Or "vibrant" as some might put it.
    Easy to say that when you're one of those at the top looking down.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuTMWgOduFM
    So just how redistributive would you like to be?
    I would like to shift the tax burden from wages to property and from wealth creation to wealth consumption.

    I've been wondering about how foreign holidays could be taxed - as the UK runs a tourism deficit of £20bn plus it would help to rebalance the economy, would be progressive taxation and could be used to increase funding for new housing and/or public services.
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    PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    jonny83 said:

    May did the right thing judging from the Khan scenes, with her being the Prime Minister it would have been a lot worse.

    The Khan event makes the optics even worse for her. She looks like she's hiding now. Scared of debates, scared of the publics, scared of disaster victims... it's an easy media narrative to develop, and regardless of whether it's fair, which of course few media narratives are, it has the potential to destroy what's left of her authority inside a couple of days. Someone in no. 10 has to get a grip.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,120

    HYUFD said:

    She's awful. Clearly the latest software patch hasn't worked and we've got an even worse Maybot.

    Bring back the posh boys.

    I take it you are therefore endorsing the old Etonian Boris over the comprehensive educated Hammond and the grammar school educated Davis?
    Boris isn't posh, he went to Eton on a King's Scholarship.

    That makes Boris a fecking pleb.
    His father was an MEP and worked for the World Bank so he could have afforded the fees if needed and at least Boris (plus Cameron to be fair) went to Eton not a second tier public school like St Paul's a la Osborne
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,503
    Sean_F said:

    Typo said:

    Doesn't look like Sadiq will be able to shield himself from the deserved onslaught that is heading in the direction of each and every authority. Has he initiated anything to tackle it even examine the deficiencies of London's tower blocks since be took office?

    How is Khan responsible? We don't know the reasons for this disaster. We can only speculate.
    The Tories are responsible, wally.

    Why do you even need to ask?
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061
    Pong said:

    In addition to my suggestion of bolloxing 5% of the greenbelt, maybe it's time for the govt to borrow a trillion quid at 0% and build 5 new Milton Keyneses over the next decade.

    Spur them off hs 1/2, or something, subsidize season tickets, wire in terabit internet and give tax breaks for companies relocating staff from london.

    They'll be soulless at first but economically successful over time.

    Just do it.

    Screw the NIMBYs.

    2k/month for a flat in that tower block is insane. The housing market is dysfunctional and fuelling social unrest. It's a pressure cooker. Release the valve.

    The Greenfell Tower shows the problems with such talk. We want housing that is:

    *) Affordable
    *) Environmentally sound
    *) Safe
    *) High quality, e.g. on finish
    *) Roomy
    *) Quick to build

    Many of these requirements are mutually exclusive, especially wrt cost. Frankly, if we want to build a many houses as some people say at an affordable cost, then something has to give. It cannot be safety, so will we be building small, boxy houses that aren't environmentally sound?

    And that's just the houses themselves, without considering all the other infrastructure that should go with them.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,503
    TOPPING said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sadiq Khan getting serious hassle. Reports of bottle thrown, very angry scenes, police reinforcements. From Sky.

    I really don't understand how anyone could hold Khan responsible for what has happened.
    It appears to be general anger. That they feel they are an underclass in that area. It's not Khan but the establishment they appear to be furious with.
    They are an underclass in that area.

    Inequality, the lack of hope, having your inferiority constantly rubbed in your face isn't good.
    Apparently the rent was 2 grand a month for one of those flats if you're private. Beggars belief.
    So approximately the gross annual wage in the country to live in a council block.

    There will be millionaire property owners and people earnings hundreds of thousands per year living next to those on minimum wage and social security.

    SeanT's street is another example.

    This is not healthy for society.
    Yeah but that's London. Only about three districts are solely non-prolely (SW3, some streets in Maida Vale, some in Hampstead, some in Mayfair). Everywhere else the two mingle and I think it's healthy. Or "vibrant" as some might put it.
    Wade in there with your top hat, and see what happens.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    jonny83 said:

    May did the right thing judging from the Khan scenes, with her being the Prime Minister it would have been a lot worse.

    Well quite.

    God forbid a Prime Minister shows a modicum of leadership and show some inner steel and face up to her responsibilities as head of government. I suppose we should be grateful that she might turn up at a constituency village fete and man the WI cake stall.

    Victoria sponge or coffee and walnut ??
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    FF43 said:

    Residents probably don't know the difference or make the distinction between the Mayor of London and the Borough of Kensington. As far as they are concerned those are the people responsible for what happened.

    Some of the commentary earlier suggested he was being criticised by the crowd for not supporting Jeremy Corbyn fully. That suggests a fairly sophisticated level of political awareness. Ultimately Corbyn is from the revolutionary side of politics so its not surprising that there are some left wing agitators supporting him.
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    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112

    midwinter said:

    midwinter said:

    On McDonnell and the march (replies suggest he didn't actually say 'force'):
    https://twitter.com/Paul1Singh/status/875328886841761792

    McDonnell does not believe change will be secured through Parliament. He believes it can only happen from the streets.
    Why would they risk all they've achieved in the last couple of months?
    Like any sane person I'm horrified by the fire but encouraging some sort of insurrection is just going to confirm the worst fears of people wrt to Corbyn/McDonell. Particularly out of London.

    McDonnell is really not that interested in Labour's seat count except to the extent it gives the far left control within Labour. He is the most extreme of the gang.

    Ok thanks. Come back Cameron and rescue us from the lunatics and incompetents. Asap
    Cameron was one of the incompetents. His arrogance never, for one minute, let him consider he might not have the support of the public.
    You can say that till your blue in the face, and we know your views on him are jaundiced due to Europe, but at the moment he's looking like a political colossus in comparison to the morons scrapping it out.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,242
    calum said:
    Lots of fingers needed to count the dosh.
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    PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    Do you remember that young girl murdered by her grandmothers's boyfriend, and how poor the estate they lived on seemed to be. I read a report - perhaps in London Reconnections - that since the Wimbledon tram had opened the unemployment rate on that estate had dropped to average. So... to make use of new build houses we also need to move central London jobs out to the fringe.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,127

    HYUFD said:

    She's awful. Clearly the latest software patch hasn't worked and we've got an even worse Maybot.

    Bring back the posh boys.

    I take it you are therefore endorsing the old Etonian Boris over the comprehensive educated Hammond and the grammar school educated Davis?
    Boris isn't posh, he went to Eton on a King's Scholarship.

    That makes Boris a fecking pleb.
    Boris went to the same school as Ed Miliband - makes him posh in my eyes.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,775

    midwinter said:

    midwinter said:

    On McDonnell and the march (replies suggest he didn't actually say 'force'):
    https://twitter.com/Paul1Singh/status/875328886841761792

    McDonnell does not believe change will be secured through Parliament. He believes it can only happen from the streets.
    Why would they risk all they've achieved in the last couple of months?
    Like any sane person I'm horrified by the fire but encouraging some sort of insurrection is just going to confirm the worst fears of people wrt to Corbyn/McDonell. Particularly out of London.

    McDonnell is really not that interested in Labour's seat count except to the extent it gives the far left control within Labour. He is the most extreme of the gang.

    Ok thanks. Come back Cameron and rescue us from the lunatics and incompetents. Asap
    Cameron was one of the incompetents. His arrogance never, for one minute, let him consider he might not have the support of the public.
    I quite like Cameron apart from his bullying ways. But he has possibly the third worst record of any PM since the War. Only surpassed by Eden and May because these two actively colluded in their downfalls whereas Cameron's Brexit clusterfuck was at least inadvertent.
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    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112

    TOPPING said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sadiq Khan getting serious hassle. Reports of bottle thrown, very angry scenes, police reinforcements. From Sky.

    I really don't understand how anyone could hold Khan responsible for what has happened.
    It appears to be general anger. That they feel they are an underclass in that area. It's not Khan but the establishment they appear to be furious with.
    They are an underclass in that area.

    Inequality, the lack of hope, having your inferiority constantly rubbed in your face isn't good.
    Apparently the rent was 2 grand a month for one of those flats if you're private. Beggars belief.
    So approximately the gross annual wage in the country to live in a council block.

    There will be millionaire property owners and people earnings hundreds of thousands per year living next to those on minimum wage and social security.

    SeanT's street is another example.

    This is not healthy for society.
    Yeah but that's London. Only about three districts are solely non-prolely (SW3, some streets in Maida Vale, some in Hampstead, some in Mayfair). Everywhere else the two mingle and I think it's healthy. Or "vibrant" as some might put it.
    Wade in there with your top hat, and see what happens.
    Plenty of bowing and scraping and forelock tugging one trusts....
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    HYUFD said:

    calum said:
    My sense is that the Brexit negotiations over Northern Ireland will effectively mark the end of the Good Friday Agreement and a new settlement will need to be negotiated this year. The stakes are high.
    Sinn Fein effectively ended powersharing anyway when they refused to work with the DUP months ago
    They didn't refuse to work with the DUP, they refused to work with Arlene Forster whilst cash for ash was still unresolved.
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    PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    Probably should have postponed it to August to save doing the job twice.
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059

    TOPPING said:

    Any violence on the streets would be Lab snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

    Then again, knowing Tezza's luck...

    She could use Boris' water cannon at last?
    Fnarr, fnarr.
    I set 'em up.
This discussion has been closed.