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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » TMay U-turns on her controversial manifesto social care policy

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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,724
    GIN1138 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    GIN1138 said:

    ICM a bit of a let-down?

    As for Osborne - £&$*"^%*"(! and "*$^"%!$£^$*$

    May was probably right to send him packing out the back door.
    Of course she was. He destroyed himself with Project Fear... A period rehabilitation was what was needed... Unfortunately true to type, instead of going to the backbenches and working hard to rebuild the reputation he himself shattered he's gone down the "revenge" route.

    Still at least his disloyalty means he'll never be able to return as an MP... And sooner of later he'll destroy himself at the Standard... Because that's what arrogant people do and there comes no more arrogant than George Osborne.
    His fate is in the hands of May et al. If Brexit is a success he probably won't make a comeback, so he probably will.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    Scott_P said:
    Hmm... What does this mean? I know in films it's normally guilty as hell - but do any lawyers want to offer a view on why you might refuse this?
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    DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    Yes. George getting his revenge, and burning his bridges with the Tory Party at the same time.

    He might be great as leader of a new "Progressive Party" though.

    It looks to me that George (like Blair) really just used a party for his own political ambitions. This might be true for many people at the political centre actually.
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    BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Just seen ICM. To think only 4 hours ago during peak 'u-turn' there was ludicrous talk about no majority or a Corbyn led government.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    One for Star Trek TNG fans. May was one step from shouting 'there are four Lights!' At journos this morning
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    bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042

    bobajobPB said:

    It gives me no pleasure to say it but Theresa May is like a golfer who needs a short putt to win the Masters, then gets out a driver and smashes the ball into the lake.

    Thankfully for her, her nearest opponent is nine shots back on the 16th.
    I thought the comment on the doorstep that TM was like Devon Lock was funny

    Not true though will still win easily.
    Yes indeed, although the PB Tory bedwetting this past week has been very entertaining. A classic of the genre among several episodes over the years!
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,554
    rkrkrk said:

    Scott_P said:
    Hmm... What does this mean? I know in films it's normally guilty as hell - but do any lawyers want to offer a view on why you might refuse this?
    It might be a condition of his alleged immunity deal with the Feds.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,236
    Piers will be piling in any minute.

    https://twitter.com/KP24/status/866632618112151552
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    I can confirm I have gone from being marginally less appalled by a Tory victory to equally appalled by both prospects.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    So the Tories are on 47% with ICM. What was all the fuss about?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,554
    Disraeli said:

    Yes. George getting his revenge, and burning his bridges with the Tory Party at the same time.

    He might be great as leader of a new "Progressive Party" though.

    It looks to me that George (like Blair) really just used a party for his own political ambitions. This might be true for many people at the political centre actually.
    He'll be back.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,896
    IanB2 said:

    surbiton said:

    "There is, though, another difference between the April 2015 poll and the most recent set of figures from YouGov that we have to take on board before coming to the conclusion that the SNP is at greater risk of losing seats from tactical voting this time around. Two years ago, no less than 69% of those who said they were inclined to vote tactically indicated that they were doing so in order to defeat the SNP. This time around, only 46% are stating that this is their purpose, while as many as 39% say they want to stop the Conservatives winning locally.

    So we may see more anti-Conservative tactical voting at this election rather than just attempts to deny the SNP success. Ms Davidson’s stout defence of the Union may have won her many new friends, but it has seemingly also stimulated others into trying to stop the advance of a party that, according to YouGov, no less than 46% still say they dislike the most."


    Thanks, Carlotta, for putting this up.
    Interesting. And as I suggested at the weekend, expecting Labour supporters to vote tactical Tory in a national GE was always pushing credibility.
    The Conservatives have risen from 15% in 2015 to about 28% now, though, which would alter the figures somewhat.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,554
    edited May 2017

    One for Star Trek TNG fans. May was one step from shouting 'there are four Lights!' At journos this morning

    Hah.

    She's no Picard, Wesley Crusher maybe.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Oh God Burley is on Sky in a minute. I feel dirty.
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    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    Labour not being challenged on their own u turn today, something the blues might want to point out. You can't just magically wave off 8 billion to secure the youth vote and get away with it Scott free.

    Yeah, how dare they! LOL.

    "Praise the policy, then praise the U Turn"
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Mortimer said:

    welshowl said:

    Animal_pb said:

    If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well etc.

    I feel sorry for all those Tory candidates who have been selling this policy on the doorstep for the past few days and now look like chumps at best.

    Nick Timothy's reputation is now lower than crocodile piss, which means Mrs May's government won't function well post election. She might have to sack him.

    Who is her Willie? Who's going to sit her down, and explain that she can't run a government the way she ran the Home Office? So that she listens?

    Can't think of anyone, tbh. That's troubling.

    As an aside, though, is anyone else feeling nostalgic for The Thick of It right now? One can just imagine Malcolm Tucker on current events...
    Hague would be ideal but he's writing books in deepest mid Wales.

    Still much more of this and it will be irrelevant two weeks Friday.
    Actually, I did wonder whether Hague leaving in 2015 was to do with the promise of a referendum. He, better than anyone else, would have been a fantastic reserve PM in case of anything happening to the Tory party.

    But then he took a peerage - damn.
    He could still serve as her Willie. Indeed, Whitelaw took a peerage during his time in government. Time to return the Lord Chancellor to the Lords?
    I don't think Whitelaw was ever Lord Chancellor.

    Curse Blair for his constitutional vandalism, it was worse than his Iraq mistake.

    But his lack of knowledge of the law isn't surprising considering he did Jurisprudence at Oxford
    He wasn't. That seat was taken by Thatcher's other older man
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,052
    Scott_P said:
    He's invoking the third amendment. He simply doesn't want soldiers quartered in his house.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,221
    bobajobPB said:

    bobajobPB said:

    It gives me no pleasure to say it but Theresa May is like a golfer who needs a short putt to win the Masters, then gets out a driver and smashes the ball into the lake.

    Thankfully for her, her nearest opponent is nine shots back on the 16th.
    I thought the comment on the doorstep that TM was like Devon Lock was funny

    Not true though will still win easily.
    Yes indeed, although the PB Tory bedwetting this past week has been very entertaining. A classic of the genre among several episodes over the years!
    What has been even more entertaining has been Labour pretending to care about rich peoples' inheritances.

    For the many not the few, eh?

    A real classic that one!
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    One for Star Trek TNG fans. May was one step from shouting 'there are four Lights!' At journos this morning

    Hah.

    She's no Picard, Wesley Crusher maybe.
    Shes more Captain Jellicoe.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,882

    Disraeli said:

    Yes. George getting his revenge, and burning his bridges with the Tory Party at the same time.

    He might be great as leader of a new "Progressive Party" though.

    It looks to me that George (like Blair) really just used a party for his own political ambitions. This might be true for many people at the political centre actually.
    He'll be back.
    You seriously think his behaviour is going un-noticed with Con members on the campaign trail and his ex colleagues at Westminster?

    TM may well turn out to be a disaster but it'll do Osborne no good at all...
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    One for Star Trek TNG fans. May was one step from shouting 'there are four Lights!' At journos this morning

    Hah.

    She's no Picard, Wesley Crusher maybe.
    Surely the Borg Queen?

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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,942
    May buckled when the Tories had a big opinion poll lead and at a time when Jeremy Corbyn is the leader of the Labour party. And she seriously expects us to believe she can negotiate a good Brexit deal for the UK.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_P said:
    He's invoking the third amendment. He simply doesn't want soldiers quartered in his house.
    The Grizzly amendment the right to Bear arms.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,554
    GIN1138 said:

    Disraeli said:

    Yes. George getting his revenge, and burning his bridges with the Tory Party at the same time.

    He might be great as leader of a new "Progressive Party" though.

    It looks to me that George (like Blair) really just used a party for his own political ambitions. This might be true for many people at the political centre actually.
    He'll be back.
    You seriously think his behaviour is going un-noticed with Con members on the campaign trail and his ex colleagues at Westminster?

    TM may well turn out to be a disaster but it'll do Osborne no good at all...
    There's plenty of Cameroons and Osbornes still in the PCP.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,896
    Brom said:

    Just seen ICM. To think only 4 hours ago during peak 'u-turn' there was ludicrous talk about no majority or a Corbyn led government.

    ICM is giving some of the best Conservative results. Nonetheless, the Tories would have been very happy with leads of 9-14% in previous election campaigns.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,882
    Disraeli said:

    Yes. George getting his revenge, and burning his bridges with the Tory Party at the same time.

    He might be great as leader of a new "Progressive Party" though.

    It looks to me that George (like Blair) really just used a party for his own political ambitions. This might be true for many people at the political centre actually.
    Osborne isn't even a fourth or firth rate Tony Blair...
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Freggles said:

    Labour not being challenged on their own u turn today, something the blues might want to point out. You can't just magically wave off 8 billion to secure the youth vote and get away with it Scott free.

    Yeah, how dare they! LOL.

    "Praise the policy, then praise the U Turn"
    It's all very amusing
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    May buckled when the Tories had a big opinion poll lead and at a time when Jeremy Corbyn is the leader of the Labour party. And she seriously expects us to believe she can negotiate a good Brexit deal for the UK.


    But she buckled to the British. Isn't that the point?

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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,942
    The Tories do seem to do blind panic better than anyone else.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,951
    Cyclefree said:

    bobajobPB said:

    bobajobPB said:

    It gives me no pleasure to say it but Theresa May is like a golfer who needs a short putt to win the Masters, then gets out a driver and smashes the ball into the lake.

    Thankfully for her, her nearest opponent is nine shots back on the 16th.
    I thought the comment on the doorstep that TM was like Devon Lock was funny

    Not true though will still win easily.
    Yes indeed, although the PB Tory bedwetting this past week has been very entertaining. A classic of the genre among several episodes over the years!
    What has been even more entertaining has been Labour pretending to care about rich peoples' inheritances.

    For the many not the few, eh?

    A real classic that one!
    Labour - For those who hate the Tories, not the many
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,942
    Sean_F said:

    Brom said:

    Just seen ICM. To think only 4 hours ago during peak 'u-turn' there was ludicrous talk about no majority or a Corbyn led government.

    ICM is giving some of the best Conservative results. Nonetheless, the Tories would have been very happy with leads of 9-14% in previous election campaigns.

    This is what makes May's U-turn so ridiculous. It was entirely needless. All it does is show her to be weak.

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    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461
    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:

    Pulpstar said:

    2015 reference for Wales is :

    Labour 36.9%
    Tories 27.2%
    UKIP 13.6%
    Plaid 12.1%
    Lib Dems 6.5%
    Greens 2.6%


    I thought that the Welsh speculation might set you into a tailspin comrade?

    How much (roughly) are you out on your constituency bets?
    Dunno :p

    I've been backing Labour in a few places most recently there though.
    Ynys Mon 12/1 labour hold was my latest. hills have cut to 10's but still 12's in a few places.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,554

    One for Star Trek TNG fans. May was one step from shouting 'there are four Lights!' At journos this morning

    Hah.

    She's no Picard, Wesley Crusher maybe.
    Surely the Borg Queen?

    Maybe. The Borg Queen was a crap strategist/tactician like Mrs May.

    I mean how many times did she send just one Borg cube to invade Earth, but left hundreds of cubes in the Delta Quadrant.
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    FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    I'm not sticking up for May here (I'm no fan) but what is the actual u-turn?

    I heard her say earlier that the £100k cut-off still stands?
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,083
    BBC headline isn't so bad for May.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,554
    edited May 2017

    The Tories do seem to do blind panic better than anyone else.

    We only have two modes. Complacency and panic.

    Which explains why we ditch our leaders with such ease and élan.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2017
    Fenster said:

    I'm not sticking up for May here (I'm no fan) but what is the actual u-turn?

    I heard her say earlier that the £100k cut-off still stands?

    I don't know but I assume there will be a maximum amount that any one person has to pay for care, in addition to the £100k cut-off. For instance if you have a house worth £600k you won't have to pay the whole £500k difference.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,882
    edited May 2017
    Are there any EU summits coming up in the next week?

    TM needs to manufacture another row with Germany or Juncker to get the media focus back to Brexit...
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,896

    The Tories do seem to do blind panic better than anyone else.

    We only have two modes. Complacency and panic.

    Which explains why we ditch our leaders with such ease and élan.
    It's like being driven by a taxi driver in Naples. His foot is either jammed down on the accelerator or jammed down on the brake.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Piers will be piling in any minute.

    https://twitter.com/KP24/status/866632618112151552

    WTF - who the hell thought up this manifesto.
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    bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    Cyclefree said:

    bobajobPB said:

    bobajobPB said:

    It gives me no pleasure to say it but Theresa May is like a golfer who needs a short putt to win the Masters, then gets out a driver and smashes the ball into the lake.

    Thankfully for her, her nearest opponent is nine shots back on the 16th.
    I thought the comment on the doorstep that TM was like Devon Lock was funny

    Not true though will still win easily.
    Yes indeed, although the PB Tory bedwetting this past week has been very entertaining. A classic of the genre among several episodes over the years!
    What has been even more entertaining has been Labour pretending to care about rich peoples' inheritances.

    For the many not the few, eh?

    A real classic that one!
    Yes, Corbynite Labour are a total joke, but we already knew that. Your point is?
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Fenster said:

    I'm not sticking up for May here (I'm no fan) but what is the actual u-turn?

    I heard her say earlier that the £100k cut-off still stands?

    It's not a U-turn on the main proposal, but a U-turn on the previous statement that they wouldn't be capping the maximum amount payable, i.e. it potentially benefits the heirs of someone with a house worth (say) £700K whose care ends up costing £200K. I suspect that the number of cases where the cap will apply will be very small, depending on what cap is eventually chosen.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    Luckily for TMay, all the battles have already been won. It's something they managed fairly early in the 2010 parliament and again after 2015. Corbyn could have the best idea ever, no-one will care.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    GIN1138 said:

    Are there any EU summits coming up in the next week?

    TM needs to manufacture another row with Germany or Jucnker to get the media focus back to Brexit...

    Don't bring any new policies forward might help ;-)
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Pulpstar said:

    May was probably right to send him packing out the back door.


    She said that if he “wanted to be PM in future” after her, he should get to know the party.


    He seems to much more in tune with the Country than she is right now...
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,554

    Piers will be piling in any minute.

    https://twitter.com/KP24/status/866632618112151552

    WTF - who the hell thought up this manifesto.
    Rasputin.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,325
    AndyJS said:

    Fenster said:

    I'm not sticking up for May here (I'm no fan) but what is the actual u-turn?

    I heard her say earlier that the £100k cut-off still stands?

    I don't know but I assume there will be a maximum amount that any one person has to pay for care, in addition to the £100k cut-off. For instance if you have a house worth £600k you won't have to pay the whole £500k difference.
    Yeah, my guess is that they are intending to resurrect the cap from Dilnot, probably at a higher level than he proposed, shunt it off as many years into the future as they think they can get away with, and then endeavour to dodge all questions about how much it would cost or where the money is coming from by saying 'wait for the Green Paper'.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    May buckled when the Tories had a big opinion poll lead and at a time when Jeremy Corbyn is the leader of the Labour party. And she seriously expects us to believe she can negotiate a good Brexit deal for the UK.

    I live in hope.
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    KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850

    blueblue said:

    Despite her reputation, Thatcher swerved all the time, and this one was performed at top speed and with maximum impact - most of the hoohah will have settled down by election day, eliminating the Tories' biggest negative and letting the focus return to Corbyn.

    May's probably lost 25 potential gains, but saved a solid win.


    Agreed.

    I hoped she'd still go for the 'Arnie Vinick' 50 state strategy...
    Vinick had to swerve a nuclear accident so let's hope Sellafield is okay....
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,882
    Scott_P said:

    Pulpstar said:

    May was probably right to send him packing out the back door.


    She said that if he “wanted to be PM in future” after her, he should get to know the party.


    He seems to much more in tune with the Country than she is right now...
    We'll see...
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,762
    SeanT said:

    ICM like a dose of Xanax after a bout of mania.

    Fieldwork 19-21st May, so it's not exactly a final verdict on the contretemps.
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    bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    The repeal of the ivory ban is another completely ludicrous entry in the Tory hamifesto. Now May has a high-profile anti-ivory campaigner in the form of Kevin Pietersen on her ass. It looks like a joke, but it could actually cause her some more problems (and the policy is clearly morally wrong – why FFS?)
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,083
    bobajobPB said:

    The repeal of the ivory ban is another completely ludicrous entry in the Tory hamifesto. Now May has a high-profile anti-ivory campaigner in the form of Kevin Pietersen on her ass. It looks like a joke, but it could actually cause her some more problems (and the policy is clearly morally wrong – why FFS?)

    There is no repeal of the ivory ban in the Tory manifesto...
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I bet Theresa May wishes she hadn't been so gratuitously unpleasant to George Osborne now.
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    bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042

    bobajobPB said:

    The repeal of the ivory ban is another completely ludicrous entry in the Tory hamifesto. Now May has a high-profile anti-ivory campaigner in the form of Kevin Pietersen on her ass. It looks like a joke, but it could actually cause her some more problems (and the policy is clearly morally wrong – why FFS?)

    There is no repeal of the ivory ban in the Tory manifesto...
    According to this there is...
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservatives-ivory-trade-ban-2017-manifesto-scrap-pledge-illegal-poaching-a7748581.html
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    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    Fenster said:

    I'm not sticking up for May here (I'm no fan) but what is the actual u-turn?

    I heard her say earlier that the £100k cut-off still stands?

    Cap for the wealthy !
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    May buckled when the Tories had a big opinion poll lead and at a time when Jeremy Corbyn is the leader of the Labour party. And she seriously expects us to believe she can negotiate a good Brexit deal for the UK.

    I live in hope.
    Pandora's Pox - she should have slammed the lid shut and kept "Hope" in there and we would all probably be wiser and less delusional as a result.
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    KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850
    edited May 2017
    bobajobPB said:

    bobajobPB said:

    The repeal of the ivory ban is another completely ludicrous entry in the Tory hamifesto. Now May has a high-profile anti-ivory campaigner in the form of Kevin Pietersen on her ass. It looks like a joke, but it could actually cause her some more problems (and the policy is clearly morally wrong – why FFS?)

    There is no repeal of the ivory ban in the Tory manifesto...
    According to this there is...
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservatives-ivory-trade-ban-2017-manifesto-scrap-pledge-illegal-poaching-a7748581.html
    Bollocks. The manifesto simply fails to mention the 2015 pledge. How does that equate to a 'repeal'?!
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    IanB2 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Fenster said:

    I'm not sticking up for May here (I'm no fan) but what is the actual u-turn?

    I heard her say earlier that the £100k cut-off still stands?

    I don't know but I assume there will be a maximum amount that any one person has to pay for care, in addition to the £100k cut-off. For instance if you have a house worth £600k you won't have to pay the whole £500k difference.
    Yeah, my guess is that they are intending to resurrect the cap from Dilnot, probably at a higher level than he proposed, shunt it off as many years into the future as they think they can get away with, and then endeavour to dodge all questions about how much it would cost or where the money is coming from by saying 'wait for the Green Paper'.
    Which, after all, is the same kicking of the can down the road that the Coalition did, and Dave & George did and New Labour did,

    I suspect only when the social care system has completely collapsed will the public realiser that it needs some more money to run it.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Scott_P said:
    Another mistake,Osborne will only get worse in his attacks,why fuel it.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,554
    Scott_P said:
    If I was George, I'd tell them none of them were during a general election campaign.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,762

    bobajobPB said:

    The repeal of the ivory ban is another completely ludicrous entry in the Tory hamifesto. Now May has a high-profile anti-ivory campaigner in the form of Kevin Pietersen on her ass. It looks like a joke, but it could actually cause her some more problems (and the policy is clearly morally wrong – why FFS?)

    There is no repeal of the ivory ban in the Tory manifesto...
    It's a stealth ditching of the pledge to seek a total ban in the 2015 manifesto.
    Potayto potarto.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,195

    Scott_P said:
    If I was George, I'd tell them none of them were during a general election campaign.
    Yeah, but that figure of £4,300 was during a referendum campaign. A no one believed it.
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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,325
    edited May 2017
    surbiton said:

    Andrew said:

    ICM 47-33 ............ Baxtering gives 134 majority (392-177)

    Spreads aren't moving much: Spreadex 388-171, Spin 387-173

    I am not sure where you get 134 from.

    If you enter 47/33/9/4/2 and also tick the Scottish box and put in 43/29/19

    the majority is 92. Tories 371, Labour 204, SNP 49, LD 5, PC 3, NI 18
    Yes, I thought there was something a bit wrong there - not quite Abbotesque but not exactly Carol Vorderman either.

    Fisher had Labour on 178 before the recent run of better polls for them so you would have expected some uplift since. Of course I'm aware that now there has been a U-Turn it's as if nothing ever happened and we all need to calibrate our estimates back to the time before the unfortunate manifesto error happened, but to Baxter on current polling numbers rather than those which will appear soon now that normality has been restored must produce something like your figures above, surely?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    I bet Theresa May wishes she hadn't been so gratuitously unpleasant to George Osborne now.

    Merely the first in what looks to be a series of increasingly dumbass moves...
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    edited May 2017
    bobajobPB said:

    The repeal of the ivory ban is another completely ludicrous entry in the Tory hamifesto. Now May has a high-profile anti-ivory campaigner in the form of Kevin Pietersen on her ass. It looks like a joke, but it could actually cause her some more problems (and the policy is clearly morally wrong – why FFS?)

    Yep,if this policy gets a full blown media showing ,she will lose thousands more voters.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    tlg86 said:

    Yeah, but that figure of £4,300 was during a referendum campaign. A no one believed it.

    Although it may yet prove to be an underestimate, given how adept Team Tezza are at politics
  • Options
    FensterFenster Posts: 2,115

    Fenster said:

    I'm not sticking up for May here (I'm no fan) but what is the actual u-turn?

    I heard her say earlier that the £100k cut-off still stands?

    It's not a U-turn on the main proposal, but a U-turn on the previous statement that they wouldn't be capping the maximum amount payable, i.e. it potentially benefits the heirs of someone with a house worth (say) £700K whose care ends up costing £200K. I suspect that the number of cases where the cap will apply will be very small, depending on what cap is eventually chosen.
    Thank you Richard.

    The irony of all this is that it has actually done the country - and future political leaders - a great deal of good. It's brought an enormous problem out into the open.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Scott_P said:
    If I was George, I'd tell them none of them were during a general election campaign.
    If I was George, I would laugh and tell them I am not a politician any more and they can say what they like.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Has the Evening Standard opined in this yet?

    https://twitter.com/jamieoliver/status/866656397827727360
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,554
    Random observation.

    Gordon Brown put more thought into his 2007 manifesto than Theresa May did with her 2017 manifesto.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,389
    Cyclefree said:

    bobajobPB said:

    bobajobPB said:

    It gives me no pleasure to say it but Theresa May is like a golfer who needs a short putt to win the Masters, then gets out a driver and smashes the ball into the lake.

    Thankfully for her, her nearest opponent is nine shots back on the 16th.
    I thought the comment on the doorstep that TM was like Devon Lock was funny

    Not true though will still win easily.
    Yes indeed, although the PB Tory bedwetting this past week has been very entertaining. A classic of the genre among several episodes over the years!
    What has been even more entertaining has been Labour pretending to care about rich peoples' inheritances.

    For the many not the few, eh?

    A real classic that one!
    Although funny, it really does make you weep at the rank hypocrisy. I was a fan of the proposals because they had the attraction of being a sensible stab at solving a near-intractable problem and showed some degree of leadership. Now? Not so much.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,896

    surbiton said:

    Andrew said:

    ICM 47-33 ............ Baxtering gives 134 majority (392-177)

    Spreads aren't moving much: Spreadex 388-171, Spin 387-173

    I am not sure where you get 134 from.

    If you enter 47/33/9/4/2 and also tick the Scottish box and put in 43/29/19

    the majority is 92. Tories 371, Labour 204, SNP 49, LD 5, PC 3, NI 18
    Yes, I thought there was something a bit wrong there - not quite Abbotesque but not exactly Carol Vorderman either.

    Fisher had Labour on 178 before the recent run of better polls for them so you would have expected some uplift since. Of course I'm aware that now there has been a U-Turn it's as if nothing ever happened and we all need to calibrate our estimates back to the time before the unfortunate manifesto error happened, but to Baxter on current polling numbers rather than those which will appear soon now that normality has been restored must produce something like your figures above, surely?
    ICM are probably factoring differential swings in marginal seats.

    A lead of 14% probably would generate a majority that was well into three figures.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    surbiton said:

    "There is, though, another difference between the April 2015 poll and the most recent set of figures from YouGov that we have to take on board before coming to the conclusion that the SNP is at greater risk of losing seats from tactical voting this time around. Two years ago, no less than 69% of those who said they were inclined to vote tactically indicated that they were doing so in order to defeat the SNP. This time around, only 46% are stating that this is their purpose, while as many as 39% say they want to stop the Conservatives winning locally.

    So we may see more anti-Conservative tactical voting at this election rather than just attempts to deny the SNP success. Ms Davidson’s stout defence of the Union may have won her many new friends, but it has seemingly also stimulated others into trying to stop the advance of a party that, according to YouGov, no less than 46% still say they dislike the most."


    Thanks, Carlotta, for putting this up.
    Though less people are apparently voting anti-SNP the will be doing it with far better information this time round.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,195
    Scott_P said:

    tlg86 said:

    Yeah, but that figure of £4,300 was during a referendum campaign. A no one believed it.

    Although it may yet prove to be an underestimate, given how adept Team Tezza are at politics
    We'll never know, because in the real world there is only one version of history. The counterfactual of staying in, alas, will not exist.
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    PendduPenddu Posts: 265
    Good news for Carwyn & Leanne. RT proven to be a liability. Mostyn has sunk without a trace. Lib who?
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    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461
    bobajobPB said:

    bobajobPB said:

    The repeal of the ivory ban is another completely ludicrous entry in the Tory hamifesto. Now May has a high-profile anti-ivory campaigner in the form of Kevin Pietersen on her ass. It looks like a joke, but it could actually cause her some more problems (and the policy is clearly morally wrong – why FFS?)

    There is no repeal of the ivory ban in the Tory manifesto...
    According to this there is...
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservatives-ivory-trade-ban-2017-manifesto-scrap-pledge-illegal-poaching-a7748581.html
    I've never understood why governments cant harvest the ivory. If you could tranquilize the elephants and cut off most of the tusks you could increase supply so the value of what was left on the elephant wasnt worth poaching.

    I'm sure I must be missing something though else it would be happening.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,554
    Alistair said:
    I'm predicting the Plaid surge.

    This poll was conducted during/after Leanne Wood was on the telly.
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,997
    Moist seats now up to 1.07
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,325
    Sean_F said:

    The Tories do seem to do blind panic better than anyone else.

    We only have two modes. Complacency and panic.

    Which explains why we ditch our leaders with such ease and élan.
    It's like being driven by a taxi driver in Naples. His foot is either jammed down on the accelerator or jammed down on the brake.
    As the Italian saying goes, in Milan the traffic lights are an instruction, in Rome a suggestion, and in Naples a decoration....
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,038
    Barnesian said:

    Moist seats now up to 1.07

    Panic has set in!
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited May 2017
    rkrkrk said:

    Scott_P said:
    Hmm... What does this mean? I know in films it's normally guilty as hell - but do any lawyers want to offer a view on why you might refuse this?
    See last panel

    image
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    bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042

    bobajobPB said:

    bobajobPB said:

    The repeal of the ivory ban is another completely ludicrous entry in the Tory hamifesto. Now May has a high-profile anti-ivory campaigner in the form of Kevin Pietersen on her ass. It looks like a joke, but it could actually cause her some more problems (and the policy is clearly morally wrong – why FFS?)

    There is no repeal of the ivory ban in the Tory manifesto...
    According to this there is...
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservatives-ivory-trade-ban-2017-manifesto-scrap-pledge-illegal-poaching-a7748581.html
    Bollocks. The manifesto simply fails to mention the 2015 pledge. How does that equate to a 'repeal'?!
    So what is the Tory policy on ivory? Are they in favour of the ivory trade or against it?
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,762

    IanB2 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Fenster said:

    I'm not sticking up for May here (I'm no fan) but what is the actual u-turn?

    I heard her say earlier that the £100k cut-off still stands?

    I don't know but I assume there will be a maximum amount that any one person has to pay for care, in addition to the £100k cut-off. For instance if you have a house worth £600k you won't have to pay the whole £500k difference.
    Yeah, my guess is that they are intending to resurrect the cap from Dilnot, probably at a higher level than he proposed, shunt it off as many years into the future as they think they can get away with, and then endeavour to dodge all questions about how much it would cost or where the money is coming from by saying 'wait for the Green Paper'.
    Which, after all, is the same kicking of the can down the road that the Coalition did, and Dave & George did and New Labour did,

    I suspect only when the social care system has completely collapsed will the public realiser that it needs some more money to run it.
    So why, for such an important policy, did they not properly cost it, think through its presentation, work out how it might be attacked, and agree the cabinet line in defending it in the media - as opposed to doing none of the above, and sending out a poorly prepared Damian Green.... and then witter on about having to work out the "fine details" ?

    This was back of a fag packet stuff.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,896

    Alistair said:
    I'm predicting the Plaid surge.

    This poll was conducted during/after Leanne Wood was on the telly.
    I don't believe for one moment that the Conservatives will finish up 6-10% ahead in Wales.

    Even level pegging would be a swing of 5% from 2015.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,676

    Alistair said:
    I'm predicting the Plaid surge.

    This poll was conducted during/after Leanne Wood was on the telly.
    You think Leanne may have caused an upswing?
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    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    Barnesian said:

    Moist seats now up to 1.07

    There's panic. And then there are moist seats!
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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,325
    Sean_F said:

    surbiton said:

    Andrew said:

    ICM 47-33 ............ Baxtering gives 134 majority (392-177)

    Spreads aren't moving much: Spreadex 388-171, Spin 387-173

    I am not sure where you get 134 from.

    If you enter 47/33/9/4/2 and also tick the Scottish box and put in 43/29/19

    the majority is 92. Tories 371, Labour 204, SNP 49, LD 5, PC 3, NI 18
    Yes, I thought there was something a bit wrong there - not quite Abbotesque but not exactly Carol Vorderman either.

    Fisher had Labour on 178 before the recent run of better polls for them so you would have expected some uplift since. Of course I'm aware that now there has been a U-Turn it's as if nothing ever happened and we all need to calibrate our estimates back to the time before the unfortunate manifesto error happened, but to Baxter on current polling numbers rather than those which will appear soon now that normality has been restored must produce something like your figures above, surely?
    ICM are probably factoring differential swings in marginal seats.

    A lead of 14% probably would generate a majority that was well into three figures.
    Sorry Sean F but isn't there an uncharacteristic non sequitur there?

    If differential swing is already factored in, shouldn't the crude UNS model work a bit better?

    Or am I missing something?
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Barnesian said:

    Moist seats now up to 1.07

    High chance of wet seats noted
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Scott_P said:

    It gives me no pleasure to say it but Theresa May is like a golfer who needs a short putt to win the Masters, then gets out a driver and smashes the ball into the lake.

    She is in danger of Pulling a Spieth here
    Scrapheap can confirm but I believe the term is 'Spursy'
    I reckon that your George is deliberately swerving any involvement in Brexit. He can carp from the side lines and, if he seems an opportunity, re-enter Parliament in 2022 to lead a triumphant charge for #10...
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    bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042

    Barnesian said:

    Moist seats now up to 1.07

    Panic has set in!
    Strong candidate for post of the year. Bravo!
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    bobajobPB said:

    bobajobPB said:

    The repeal of the ivory ban is another completely ludicrous entry in the Tory hamifesto. Now May has a high-profile anti-ivory campaigner in the form of Kevin Pietersen on her ass. It looks like a joke, but it could actually cause her some more problems (and the policy is clearly morally wrong – why FFS?)

    There is no repeal of the ivory ban in the Tory manifesto...
    According to this there is...
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservatives-ivory-trade-ban-2017-manifesto-scrap-pledge-illegal-poaching-a7748581.html
    Bollocks. The manifesto simply fails to mention the 2015 pledge. How does that equate to a 'repeal'?!
    Hope your right but mistake not repeating the pledge.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    bobajobPB said:

    So what is the Tory policy on ivory? Are they in favour of the ivory trade or against it?

    What day is it?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,966
    I dreamt last night that Labour were over 190 seats, and the Tories had got huge swings where they didn't need them.

    Bootle for instance.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,325
    edited May 2017

    Alistair said:
    I'm predicting the Plaid surge.

    This poll was conducted during/after Leanne Wood was on the telly.
    Most PB'ers were seduced. Excluding those who actually lived in Wales, to be fair. But still.
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    bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042

    Alistair said:
    I'm predicting the Plaid surge.

    This poll was conducted during/after Leanne Wood was on the telly.
    Given the fact a majority of PBers wanted to get into her knickers just so they could hear her "silky valleys lilt" I dare say she has got the male political anorak vote sewn up.
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    JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    bobajobPB said:

    bobajobPB said:

    bobajobPB said:

    The repeal of the ivory ban is another completely ludicrous entry in the Tory hamifesto. Now May has a high-profile anti-ivory campaigner in the form of Kevin Pietersen on her ass. It looks like a joke, but it could actually cause her some more problems (and the policy is clearly morally wrong – why FFS?)

    There is no repeal of the ivory ban in the Tory manifesto...
    According to this there is...
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservatives-ivory-trade-ban-2017-manifesto-scrap-pledge-illegal-poaching-a7748581.html
    Bollocks. The manifesto simply fails to mention the 2015 pledge. How does that equate to a 'repeal'?!
    So what is the Tory policy on ivory? Are they in favour of the ivory trade or against it?
    Does it actually state in the manifesto that the ban will be repealed? Or is this more hysteria?
This discussion has been closed.