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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Jeremy Corbyn – Labour’s election gift to Mrs. May and the Tor

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  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    The list has some lost causes (Ilford North/Wrexham) perhaps but other seats are well defendable.

    Burnley, Edinburgh South, Harrow West even...
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,913
    Cyclefree said:

    @CycleFree

    "...It is one reason why I am contemplating a serious career change.

    In the end, you can only beat your head against a brick wall for so long before you decide that there are better things to do with your life - and head."

    Are you still pondering, Mrs. Free? Is there anything to really ponder about? You children are grown up, so what is stopping you doing what you want to do? Is it money? It was for me when I was thinking about bailing out of the public sector do do what I really wanted to do. In the end I just went for it and hang the financial security. There are a lot more important things in life, like enjoying it, we only get one crack at it and there isn't much to be said for being a financially secure corpse.

    I know that there are at least three others who regularly post on this site who have made similar life changing decisions and all of us seem to have done OK. Financially at the very least we have all kept the lupine pest from lolling around on the front doorstep and I think we have all been much happier doing what we wanted to do.

    Dear Mr Llama: you are a very wise fellow.

    I have in fact made my decision. But I am in the process of deciding precisely how I move to what I want to do and so it feels as if the decision-making hasn't yet been completed.

    I don't suppose I will starve (and I have rainy day funds for just this purpose) but those to whom I've spoken say that the greater risk is that I will end up taking too much on (as I'm inclined to do by nature) and end up busier than ever. So I need to guard against that as I really want my remaining decades to be enjoyable and healthy.

    I will miss my team though. They are jewels more precious than rubies and having built a really first-class team, the best in its class in the City, it does feel like a wrench. The work is one thing. But persuading people to put their trust in you and building a team and giving them interesting work and watching them develop and grow and fulfill their potential is the one thing I am immensely proud of. It is a great privilege. We are so focused on systems these days that we forget that, in the end, human beings are what matter. We are not simply economic units.

    But as the Eldest Son put it to me: "You have created one job and team. You can go off now and create another."

    So that is what I will do. But I will also have a good and relaxing summer in the Lakes I hope followed by three weeks in Canada celebrating my 25th wedding anniversary to help me refocus my life.

    But I will also admit to being a bit apprehensive. Like standing on the edge of the water wondering what it will be like to jump in.........

    Inspirational thread. Good luck!
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting interview with Corbyn, including the revelation that he took part in debates at his grammar school calling for it to be made comprehensive

    Did he call for it to stop taking boarders as well?
    There is at least 1 state comprehensive boarding school
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/schools/state-comprehensive-boarding-school-royal-alexandra-albert-offers-best-of-both-worlds-8968092.html
    There are a very large number. Keswick, for example. But usually they are there becuase their old catchment area is so vast/inaccessible it is not possible for children to make daily commutes to it. I don't quite think that is the case in Newport.
    Tends to be focused in rural areas yes, interesting there are a few of them about
    I think Royal Wolverhampton still takes boarders as well even though it is technically now a state school. There is more than a suggestion that this is to have the best of both worlds!
    The Royal is a Free School I believe
    https://theroyalschool.co.uk/
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    edited May 2017
    Pong said:

    isam said:

    bobajobPB said:

    isam said:

    Funny, when I was likely to stand for Parliament, I was told I might get sued by Jim Messina for linking to Mark Pack's website! Bankrupts cant MP's they told me!

    Gentle encouragement!

    Mind you, I didn't really have any chance of winning so it didnt matter anyway

    Does Aaron have any chance? Caroline Flint is sitting on a majority of 8,000+ in a seat that has been held by Labour since the party came into existence. If Aaron can overturn Caroline then hats off to him!
    The Conservatives are odds on favs in Dagenham, once the biggest council estate in Europe... nothing makes sense anymore
    That's a seat to watch. If TM's poll lead slips back among C2DE's, lump on lab here.

    UKIP seem to be quite well organised locally, which may save him.

    He has a fairly solid core of ~17k voters going back to 2001. It hasn't decayed like in many of labs ex-industrial northern seats.

    Also, Cruddas *is* blue labour. If any labour MP can counter the ex-Lab>UKIP>con surge, it's him. He's pretty much written Theresa May's script.
    Yeah Cruddas is pretty much the opposite of a Corbynite, I really like him. Labour have all 51 council seats and UKIP are 2nd in 50 of them

    I think UKIP are a bet at 23 w Skybet and 21 w Betfred.. I laid a bit of the Tories at 1.7. First bet of the GE was Lab at 1.5! :disappointed:
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Pong said:

    isam said:

    bobajobPB said:

    isam said:

    Funny, when I was likely to stand for Parliament, I was told I might get sued by Jim Messina for linking to Mark Pack's website! Bankrupts cant MP's they told me!

    Gentle encouragement!

    Mind you, I didn't really have any chance of winning so it didnt matter anyway

    Does Aaron have any chance? Caroline Flint is sitting on a majority of 8,000+ in a seat that has been held by Labour since the party came into existence. If Aaron can overturn Caroline then hats off to him!
    The Conservatives are odds on favs in Dagenham, once the biggest council estate in Europe... nothing makes sense anymore
    That's a seat to watch. If TM's poll lead slips back among C2DE's, lump on lab here.

    Also UKIP seem to be quite well organised locally, which may save him.

    He has a fairly solid core of ~17k voters going back to 2001. It hasn't decayed like in many of labs ex-industrial northern seats.

    Finally, Cruddas *is* blue labour. If any labour MP can counter the ex-Lab>UKIP>con surge, it's him. Theresa May has nicked his script.
    Against that it is in bigly trouble using lease/remain seperate swings, transitional matrices or just plain old UNS !
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,401
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting interview with Corbyn, including the revelation that he took part in debates at his grammar school calling for it to be made comprehensive

    Did he call for it to stop taking boarders as well?
    There is at least 1 state comprehensive boarding school
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/schools/state-comprehensive-boarding-school-royal-alexandra-albert-offers-best-of-both-worlds-8968092.html
    There are a very large number. Keswick, for example. But usually they are there becuase their old catchment area is so vast/inaccessible it is not possible for children to make daily commutes to it. I don't quite think that is the case in Newport.
    Tends to be focused in rural areas yes, interesting there are a few of them about
    I think Royal Wolverhampton still takes boarders as well even though it is technically now a state school. There is more than a suggestion that this is to have the best of both worlds!
    The Royal is a Free School I believe
    https://theroyalschool.co.uk/
    Yes, that's why I added the 'technically'. It was a rocky road for them to get there as well by all accounts.
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,963
    edited May 2017
    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    PaulM said:


    I don't find Nick to be especially partisan. I think he posted after the 2010 election that there were things that he knew from canvassing but wasn't at liberty to say publicly (and he did caveat his postings by saying he was a loyal Labour MP which would inform what he would say publicly, but that he would endeavour to not post things that he knew to be untrue.) , but I don't think he has been ramping or campaigning on here.

    He's also quite willing to get into the statistical side of things, which I like.

    I recall Stewart Jackson was more keen to get into the partisan back and forth, which PB.com isn't really the best venue.

    Both are informative, and, more importantly, polite. Neither villifies those who do not agree with them.
    That this is effective politics - Nick has previously said that you don't persuade anyone to agree with you by abusing you - takes nothing away from it's laudability on a site such as this.
    I've noticed that since I stepped back from the front line, the more aggressive comments towards me have eased off. I sort of miss them.
    Where's SeanT when you need him?
    SeanT's witticisms aside, it's noticeable how less aggressive people (here and elsewhere) seem to be now everyone's not constanty fighting over Europe.

    For an election that was called over Europe, over Brexit, over the subject that's had us all at each other's throats for the last year or more, it's really quite astounding how low key Brexit has been in the campaigns - and the conversations - so far.

    It's been an election about Britsh Rail and fox hunting and Hamas and the IRA and the 50% tax rate and energy price caps and 1983.

    But so far for me at least it hasn't really been about Brexit. Yet.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,974
    Those regional numbers are horrid for Labour. They're doing best where it doesn't help, and worse where it hurts most.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    isam said:

    Pong said:

    isam said:

    bobajobPB said:

    isam said:

    Funny, when I was likely to stand for Parliament, I was told I might get sued by Jim Messina for linking to Mark Pack's website! Bankrupts cant MP's they told me!

    Gentle encouragement!

    Mind you, I didn't really have any chance of winning so it didnt matter anyway

    Does Aaron have any chance? Caroline Flint is sitting on a majority of 8,000+ in a seat that has been held by Labour since the party came into existence. If Aaron can overturn Caroline then hats off to him!
    The Conservatives are odds on favs in Dagenham, once the biggest council estate in Europe... nothing makes sense anymore
    That's a seat to watch. If TM's poll lead slips back among C2DE's, lump on lab here.

    UKIP seem to be quite well organised locally, which may save him.

    He has a fairly solid core of ~17k voters going back to 2001. It hasn't decayed like in many of labs ex-industrial northern seats.

    Also, Cruddas *is* blue labour. If any labour MP can counter the ex-Lab>UKIP>con surge, it's him. He's pretty much written Theresa May's script.
    Yeah Cruddas is pretty much the opposite of a Corbynite, I really like him. Labour have all 51 council seats and UKIP are 2nd in 50 of them

    I think UKIP are a bet at 23 w Skybet and 21 w Betfred.. I laid a bit of the Tories at 1.7. First bet of the GE was Lab at 1.5! :disappointed:
    Backing UKIP generally to get a seat by laying sub 0.5 on Betfair is better I think ?

    You get Thurrock that way too !
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068
    surbiton said:

    Ken said:

    I'm not a serious gambler, but I have bet a fiver on Labour getting betwixt 30 and 35 percent of the vote at 9/2 and another fiver on them getting between 200 and 249 seats at 7/1. I still expect to collect both bets. I also have high hopes of the Tories taking Clegg and Farron's seats at 10/1 and 8/1 respectively, and Labour holding Burnley at 7/4. All those fiver bets went on last Monday, by the way, and all the odds have now shortened.

    Huh ? 30-35% is not impossible. 200 -249 seats ? Well, I believe 190 is possible 200 + at 7/1 seems right.

    Farron's seat is more likely to fall. Clegg is pretty safe, I think.
    Presumably the LDs will be pushing hard on the "Only Clegg can keep Corbyn out" line, with bar charts from 2015. It's a very Remain area, and the LDs did well in the constituency in the locals last year, so I would be surprised if it fell.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,900
    edited May 2017


    She didn't predict that - she predicted a narrow Hillary victory

    At one point, yes. But you (and others) miss the point.

    She refused to join the echo-chamber and she contributed news and opinions from sources that weren't in the Hillary camp. Plato showed us that there were two sides to the election.

    She is Jesus!
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,900
    Sean_F said:

    Those regional numbers are horrid for Labour. They're doing best where it doesn't help, and worse where it hurts most.

    Thats what I think too
  • Options
    ExiledInScotlandExiledInScotland Posts: 1,507

    O/T but I got my Conservative election mailing through the door in SW Edinburgh today. The graph is an absolute classic of the genre - so wish I could share it

    Are you on twitter?
    Here's my attempt to share the
    Pulpstar said:

    What malevolent force Corbyn and Momentum are (and betting post)


    Jeremy Corbyn's core campaign team of dedicated activists, Momentum, has been diverting campaigners away from the marginal seats of some of his most vocal critics, including Wes Streeting and Neil Coyle.

    The hard-left group created a marginal map, launched last Thursday, in which voters type in their postcodes and are directed to their 'nearest marginal'.

    The Telegraph checked postcodes in the marginal seats to see whether they were included on the map.

    However, voters in the seats of 36 out of the 50 former Labour MPs with the lowest majorities, when the Telegraph checked, were directed to other constituencies.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/15/jeremy-corbyns-campaign-group-directs-activists-away-key-marginal/

    Harrow West should be attempted to be defended going off of London swings though ?

    O/T but I got my Conservative election mailing through the door in SW Edinburgh today. The graph is an absolute classic of the genre - so wish I could share it

    Are you on twitter?
    Here goes
    https://twitter.com/ExileInScotland/status/864214971659550724
  • Options
    RestharrowRestharrow Posts: 233

    Cookie said:

    PaulM said:


    I don't find Nick to be especially partisan. I think he posted after the 2010 election that there were things that he knew from canvassing but wasn't at liberty to say publicly (and he did caveat his postings by saying he was a loyal Labour MP which would inform what he would say publicly, but that he would endeavour to not post things that he knew to be untrue.) , but I don't think he has been ramping or campaigning on here.

    He's also quite willing to get into the statistical side of things, which I like.

    I recall Stewart Jackson was more keen to get into the partisan back and forth, which PB.com isn't really the best venue.

    Both are informative, and, more importantly, polite. Neither villifies those who do not agree with them.
    That this is effective politics - Nick has previously said that you don't persuade anyone to agree with you by abusing you - takes nothing away from it's laudability on a site such as this.
    .... I've noticed that since I stepped back from the front line, the more aggressive comments towards me have eased off...
    To be honest Nick, most of us have come to the conclusion that you and Jeremy are MI5 sleeper agents with a lifelong mission to destroy the Labour Party. Once your work is complete you'll never have to buy a drink again.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,453

    O/T but I got my Conservative election mailing through the door in SW Edinburgh today. The graph is an absolute classic of the genre - so wish I could share it

    Are you on twitter?
    Here's my attempt to share the
    Pulpstar said:

    What malevolent force Corbyn and Momentum are (and betting post)


    Jeremy Corbyn's core campaign team of dedicated activists, Momentum, has been diverting campaigners away from the marginal seats of some of his most vocal critics, including Wes Streeting and Neil Coyle.

    The hard-left group created a marginal map, launched last Thursday, in which voters type in their postcodes and are directed to their 'nearest marginal'.

    The Telegraph checked postcodes in the marginal seats to see whether they were included on the map.

    However, voters in the seats of 36 out of the 50 former Labour MPs with the lowest majorities, when the Telegraph checked, were directed to other constituencies.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/15/jeremy-corbyns-campaign-group-directs-activists-away-key-marginal/

    Harrow West should be attempted to be defended going off of London swings though ?

    O/T but I got my Conservative election mailing through the door in SW Edinburgh today. The graph is an absolute classic of the genre - so wish I could share it

    Are you on twitter?
    Here goes
    https://twitter.com/ExileInScotland/status/864214971659550724
    Such a lot of trouble to shrink the already unthreatening LibDem bar so it is smaller than its 4.9%!
  • Options
    ExiledInScotlandExiledInScotland Posts: 1,507
    Sorry. Made a right mess of that
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,592

    O/T but I got my Conservative election mailing through the door in SW Edinburgh today. The graph is an absolute classic of the genre - so wish I could share it

    Are you on twitter?
    Here's my attempt to share the
    Pulpstar said:

    What malevolent force Corbyn and Momentum are (and betting post)


    Jeremy Corbyn's core campaign team of dedicated activists, Momentum, has been diverting campaigners away from the marginal seats of some of his most vocal critics, including Wes Streeting and Neil Coyle.

    The hard-left group created a marginal map, launched last Thursday, in which voters type in their postcodes and are directed to their 'nearest marginal'.

    The Telegraph checked postcodes in the marginal seats to see whether they were included on the map.

    However, voters in the seats of 36 out of the 50 former Labour MPs with the lowest majorities, when the Telegraph checked, were directed to other constituencies.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/15/jeremy-corbyns-campaign-group-directs-activists-away-key-marginal/

    Harrow West should be attempted to be defended going off of London swings though ?

    O/T but I got my Conservative election mailing through the door in SW Edinburgh today. The graph is an absolute classic of the genre - so wish I could share it

    Are you on twitter?
    Here goes
    https://twitter.com/ExileInScotland/status/864214971659550724
    Thank you, I've re-tweeted that
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    Pong said:

    isam said:

    bobajobPB said:

    isam said:

    Funny, when I was likely to stand for Parliament, I was told I might get sued by Jim Messina for linking to Mark Pack's website! Bankrupts cant MP's they told me!

    Gentle encouragement!

    Mind you, I didn't really have any chance of winning so it didnt matter anyway

    Does Aaron have any chance? Caroline Flint is sitting on a majority of 8,000+ in a seat that has been held by Labour since the party came into existence. If Aaron can overturn Caroline then hats off to him!
    The Conservatives are odds on favs in Dagenham, once the biggest council estate in Europe... nothing makes sense anymore
    That's a seat to watch. If TM's poll lead slips back among C2DE's, lump on lab here.

    UKIP seem to be quite well organised locally, which may save him.

    He has a fairly solid core of ~17k voters going back to 2001. It hasn't decayed like in many of labs ex-industrial northern seats.

    Also, Cruddas *is* blue labour. If any labour MP can counter the ex-Lab>UKIP>con surge, it's him. He's pretty much written Theresa May's script.
    Yeah Cruddas is pretty much the opposite of a Corbynite, I really like him. Labour have all 51 council seats and UKIP are 2nd in 50 of them

    I think UKIP are a bet at 23 w Skybet and 21 w Betfred.. I laid a bit of the Tories at 1.7. First bet of the GE was Lab at 1.5! :disappointed:
    Backing UKIP generally to get a seat by laying sub 0.5 on Betfair is better I think ?

    You get Thurrock that way too !
    Bet 365 12/1 over 0.5 and 9/1 in Thurrock!
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048
    IanB2 said:

    O/T but I got my Conservative election mailing through the door in SW Edinburgh today. The graph is an absolute classic of the genre - so wish I could share it

    Are you on twitter?
    Here's my attempt to share the
    Pulpstar said:

    What malevolent force Corbyn and Momentum are (and betting post)


    Jeremy Corbyn's core campaign team of dedicated activists, Momentum, has been diverting campaigners away from the marginal seats of some of his most vocal critics, including Wes Streeting and Neil Coyle.

    The hard-left group created a marginal map, launched last Thursday, in which voters type in their postcodes and are directed to their 'nearest marginal'.

    The Telegraph checked postcodes in the marginal seats to see whether they were included on the map.

    However, voters in the seats of 36 out of the 50 former Labour MPs with the lowest majorities, when the Telegraph checked, were directed to other constituencies.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/15/jeremy-corbyns-campaign-group-directs-activists-away-key-marginal/

    Harrow West should be attempted to be defended going off of London swings though ?

    O/T but I got my Conservative election mailing through the door in SW Edinburgh today. The graph is an absolute classic of the genre - so wish I could share it

    Are you on twitter?
    Here goes
    https://twitter.com/ExileInScotland/status/864214971659550724
    Such a lot of trouble to shrink the already unthreatening LibDem bar so it is smaller than its 4.9%!
    The LDs themselves would be proud. Nice identical gap but different proportions between 1-2 and 2-3.

    I like the far larger picture of Ruth Davidson, although in fairness they have included both the name and a picture for the actual candidate, and the name of the party.

    Miles Briggs makes me think of a personality test.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    SeanT said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    PaulM said:




    Both are informative, and, more importantly, polite. Neither villifies those who do not agree with them.
    That this is effective politics - Nick has previously said that you don't persuade anyone to agree with you by abusing you - takes nothing away from it's laudability on a site such as this.
    I've noticed that since I stepped back from the front line, the more aggressive comments towards me have eased off. I sort of miss them.
    Where's SeanT when you need him?
    SeanT's witticisms aside, it's noticeable how less aggressive people (here and elsewhere) seem to be now everyone's not constanty fighting over Europe.

    For an election that was called over Europe, over Brexit, over the subject that's had us all at each other's throats for the last year or more, it's really quite astounding how low key Brexit has been in the campaigns - and the conversations - so far.

    It's been an election about Britsh Rail and fox hunting and Hamas and the IRA and the 50% tax rate and energy price caps and 1983.

    But so far for me at least it hasn't really been about Brexit. Yet.
    As David Cameron said, the referendum (even though it destroyed his career) has lanced the pulsing boil that ached between the buttocks of British political life (OK he didn't quite put it like that but hey)

    The poison is being drained. We are all Brexiteers now, reluctant or eager, sad or giddy. The nation decided, so we move on and do the best we can, apart from a few wankers on Twitter.

    I'll make another prediction: in ten years Brexit will seem natural and normal, and we will be perfectly friendly with all our European friends and allies and neighbours, and we will probably be back in some tweaked form of the Single Market (without Free Movement, which I expect the EU will adjust anyway).
    Quite right, and Remainers should realise that the comparison isn't between the Coalition years and post Brexit vote uncertainty. If Cameron hadn't offered a referendum, it is likely the Conservatives would not have a majority, and UKIP would have several MP's causing havoc inc Farage
  • Options
    JonCisBackJonCisBack Posts: 911
    BBC website "stories more popular then the GE" update:

    Still all of the top 10, including dinosaur asteroids, Avril Lavigne conspiracy theories, the latest "offensive" McDonalds ad and Noel Edmonds suing Lloyds.

    Nobody is going to change their minds now. Can't we just have the election this Thursday and be done with it?
  • Options
    JonCisBackJonCisBack Posts: 911
    SeanT said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    PaulM said:


    I don't find Nick to be especially partisan. I think he posted after the 2010 election that there were things that he knew from canvassing but wasn't at liberty to say publicly (and he did caveat his postings by saying he was a loyal Labour MP which would inform what he would say publicly, but that he would endeavour to not post things that he knew to be untrue.) , but I don't think he has been ramping or campaigning on here.

    He's also quite willing to get into the statistical side of things, which I like.

    I recall Stewart Jackson was more keen to get into the partisan back and forth, which PB.com isn't really the best venue.

    Both are informative, and, more importantly, polite. Neither villifies those who do not agree with them.
    That this is effective politics - Nick has previously said that you don't persuade anyone to agree with you by abusing you - takes nothing away from it's laudability on a site such as this.
    I've noticed that since I stepped back from the front line, the more aggressive comments towards me have eased off. I sort of miss them.
    Where's SeanT when you need him?
    SeanT's witticisms aside, it's noticeable how less aggressive people (here and elsewhere) seem to be now everyone's not constanty fighting over Europe.

    For an election that was called over Europe, over Brexit, over the subject that's had us all at each other's throats for the last year or more, it's really quite astounding how low key Brexit has been in the campaigns - and the conversations - so far.

    It's been an election about Britsh Rail and fox hunting and Hamas and the IRA and the 50% tax rate and energy price caps and 1983.

    But so far for me at least it hasn't really been about Brexit. Yet.
    As David Cameron said, the referendum (even though it destroyed his career) has lanced the pulsing boil that ached between the buttocks of British political life (OK he didn't quite put it like that but hey)

    The poison is being drained. We are all Brexiteers now, reluctant or eager, sad or giddy. The nation decided, so we move on and do the best we can, apart from a few wankers on Twitter.

    I'll make another prediction: in ten years Brexit will seem natural and normal, and we will be perfectly friendly with all our European friends and allies and neighbours, and we will probably be back in some tweaked form of the Single Market (without Free Movement, which I expect the EU will adjust anyway).
    +1

    People who voted based on a few quarters depressed GDP were kind of missing the point...
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    Pulpstar said:

    Edinburgh South is certainly not a lost cause for Labour.
    I'd rather they sent Scottish troops to East Lothian though..

    I'm not sure last time Scottish troops were in East Lothian it ended well
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,793
    kle4 said:

    Sort of on topic, I've had some very sensible Labour types I know be pretty blase about the Corbyn IRA stuff. They take the view as occasionally expressed on here that it basically no different than other politicians shaking hands with bad people at one point or another. I'd say there is a qualitative difference from most of those counter examples, but it does lead me to believe the eve less sensible will not be much fazed by it en masse, even though some undoubtedly will be.

    I admit I am not massively exercised by Corbyn's fellow travelling with the IRA. There are complicated and conflated reasons. We're supposed to have moved on from the Troubles. It's a bitter pill to swallow to accept as pillars of our society baby murderers who haven't​ acknowledged their evil deeds let alone atoned for them, but we swallow the pill because it has to be better than the killings. I have less energy for Corbyn who of course didn't kill anyone. Many people compromised with the killers. They were doing that in the course of duty while Jeremy Corbyn was freelancing, but it is all very murky and Corbyn doesn't really stand out from the murk.

    I am really more interested in what's happening now. I am not aware of Corbyn being egregious. Unlike Liam Fox who said Rodrigo Duterte, killer of drug addicts in cold blood, "shares our values" How dare Fox speak for us!
  • Options
    freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107
    SeanT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    @CycleFree

    "...It is one reason why I am contemplating a serious career change.

    In the end, you can only beat your head against a brick wall for so long before you decide that there are better things to do with your life - and head."

    Are you still pondering, Mrs. Free? Is there anything to really ponder about? You children are grown up, so what is stopping you doing what you want to do? Is it money? It was for me when I was thinking about bailing out of the public sector do do what I really wanted to do. In the end I just went for it and hang the financial security. There are a lot more important things in life, like enjoying it, we only get one crack at it and there isn't much to be said for being a financially secure corpse.

    I know that there are at least three others who regularly post on this site who have made similar life changing decisions and all of us seem to have done OK. Financially at the very least we have all kept the lupine pest from lolling around on the front doorstep and I think we have all been much happier doing what we wanted to do.

    Dear Mr Llama: you are a very wise fellow.



    But I will also admit to being a bit apprehensive. Like standing on the edge of the water wondering what it will be like to jump in.........

    A friend of mine in publishing recently abandoned his quite lucrative but increasingly dispiriting career to become... an artisanal butcher and foodie dude in Kent.

    He had the life, the Chiswick house, the private schools for the kids, etc

    Cushioned by London property prices he was able to sell up at a fat profit, buy a nice four bedroom oast house in Sandwich, and use the capital to invest in samphire picking and kombucha pickling.

    It wasn't the bravest decision by any means (that London property left him with half a million capital as a safety net). But nonetheless it was a big wrench in terms of friends, connections, lifestyle.

    He's never been happier. He walks the dogs and smokes his own bacon and sells it at intriguingly increasing profit. He is fulfilling himself, creatively, after a lifetime of corporate obedience.
    How interesting, I know the bloke you're talking about, not in person but he was recommended to me
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,715

    BBC website "stories more popular then the GE" update:

    Still all of the top 10, including dinosaur asteroids, Avril Lavigne conspiracy theories, the latest "offensive" McDonalds ad and Noel Edmonds suing Lloyds.

    Nobody is going to change their minds now. Can't we just have the election this Thursday and be done with it?

    You missed the talking sex doll story. Surely a game changer?
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,963
    SeanT said:

    kyf_100 said:



    SeanT's witticisms aside, it's noticeable how less aggressive people (here and elsewhere) seem to be now everyone's not constanty fighting over Europe.

    For an election that was called over Europe, over Brexit, over the subject that's had us all at each other's throats for the last year or more, it's really quite astounding how low key Brexit has been in the campaigns - and the conversations - so far.

    It's been an election about Britsh Rail and fox hunting and Hamas and the IRA and the 50% tax rate and energy price caps and 1983.

    But so far for me at least it hasn't really been about Brexit. Yet.

    As David Cameron said, the referendum (even though it destroyed his career) has lanced the pulsing boil that ached between the buttocks of British political life (OK he didn't quite put it like that but hey)

    The poison is being drained. We are all Brexiteers now, reluctant or eager, sad or giddy. The nation decided, so we move on and do the best we can, apart from a few wankers on Twitter.

    I'll make another prediction: in ten years Brexit will seem natural and normal, and we will be perfectly friendly with all our European friends and allies and neighbours, and we will probably be back in some tweaked form of the Single Market (without Free Movement, which I expect the EU will adjust anyway).
    Yes, a good point. We are all brexiteers now. Some ardent, some reluctant. This election has really rammed that home.

    Having a laugh with a mate the other day I suggested that in 100 years time, when all of this is ancient history, there will probably be pubs with names like The Remoaner's Arms. And Britain will carry on being Britain, come what may.

    My remainer friends are still convinced that when the EU starts playing silly buggers during negotiations, "reluctant" leavers will be crying out to stay in the EU. Good luck with that...

  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,974
    Roger said:

    She didn't predict that - she predicted a narrow Hillary victory

    At one point, yes. But you (and others) miss the point.

    She refused to join the echo-chamber and she contributed news and opinions from sources that weren't in the Hillary camp. Plato showed us that there were two sides to the election.

    She is Jesus!

    My final guess was that Hillary would lose Florida, Iowa, Maine 2, and Ohio, but narrowly hold Penn. and the Mid West, eking out a 278/260 victory. So, I bet on Trump, as the odds were attractive.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068

    Macron says he is not in favour of Eurozone debt mutualisation for any past debts. First diplomatic victory for Merkel?

    If you'l excuse me for delving into the technical, the best proposed/suggestd Eurozone debt mutualisation plan was this:

    - there would be an amount of mutualised debt up to, say, 60%* of GDP that countries were allowed to issue
    - such debt is still issued by the country, and the country is still responsible for the repayment and debt service, but in the event of default the Eurozone was jointly and severally responsible for its repayment (in all likelihood, the ECB would step up)
    - this would mean that the first chunk of debt a country issued would be very cheap, but that any additional debt on top of the 60% was very expensive
    - this would be phased in by countries issuing new Eurozone guaranteed debt, not by converting existing debt
    - the effect of this would be to remove all funding risk from highly indebted countries for about 6 to 10 years (as very few Eurozone countries have that much to roll over in the near term)

    I don't think it's likely to happen. But if common Eurozone debt were to come about, this is likely how it would be implemented.

    * The 60% is just a placeholder. Use whatever number you prefer.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,974
    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    Sort of on topic, I've had some very sensible Labour types I know be pretty blase about the Corbyn IRA stuff. They take the view as occasionally expressed on here that it basically no different than other politicians shaking hands with bad people at one point or another. I'd say there is a qualitative difference from most of those counter examples, but it does lead me to believe the eve less sensible will not be much fazed by it en masse, even though some undoubtedly will be.

    I admit I am not massively exercised by Corbyn's fellow travelling with the IRA. There are complicated and conflated reasons. We're supposed to have moved on from the Troubles. It's a bitter pill to swallow to accept as pillars of our society baby murderers who haven't​ acknowledged their evil deeds let alone atoned for them, but we swallow the pill because it has to be better than the killings. I have less energy for Corbyn who of course didn't kill anyone. Many people compromised with the killers. They were doing that in the course of duty while Jeremy Corbyn was freelancing, but it is all very murky and Corbyn doesn't really stand out from the murk.

    I am really more interested in what's happening now. I am not aware of Corbyn being egregious. Unlike Liam Fox who said Rodrigo Duterte, killer of drug addicts in cold blood, "shares our values" How dare Fox speak for us!
    Once you've decided that Corbyn is unfit to be Prime Minister (like 75-80% of the voters) it's a waste of energy to start raging about him.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,793

    Pulpstar said:

    Edinburgh South is certainly not a lost cause for Labour.
    I'd rather they sent Scottish troops to East Lothian though..

    I'm not sure last time Scottish troops were in East Lothian it ended well
    Prestonpans? Went OK for that particular Scottish army.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,449
    Jeremy = Tory Sleeper Agent :lol:
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    kyf_100 said:

    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    PaulM said:


    I don't find Nick to be especially partisan. I think he posted after the 2010 election that there were things that he knew from canvassing but wasn't at liberty to say publicly (and he did caveat his postings by saying he was a loyal Labour MP which would inform what he would say publicly, but that he would endeavour to not post things that he knew to be untrue.) , but I don't think he has been ramping or campaigning on here.

    He's also quite willing to get into the statistical side of things, which I like.

    I recall Stewart Jackson was more keen to get into the partisan back and forth, which PB.com isn't really the best venue.

    Both are informative, and, more importantly, polite. Neither villifies those who do not agree with them.
    That this is effective politics - Nick has previously said that you don't persuade anyone to agree with you by abusing you - takes nothing away from it's laudability on a site such as this.
    I've noticed that since I stepped back from the front line, the more aggressive comments towards me have eased off. I sort of miss them.
    Where's SeanT when you need him?
    SeanT's witticisms aside, it's noticeable how less aggressive people (here and elsewhere) seem to be now everyone's not constanty fighting over Europe.

    For an election that was called over Europe, over Brexit, over the subject that's had us all at each other's throats for the last year or more, it's really quite astounding how low key Brexit has been in the campaigns - and the conversations - so far.

    It's been an election about Britsh Rail and fox hunting and Hamas and the IRA and the 50% tax rate and energy price caps and 1983.

    But so far for me at least it hasn't really been about Brexit. Yet.
    One thing is, the election isn't really under way till manifestos are officially published, and none have yet (I think - don't know the precise state of play with Labour's). Another is that the war has gone underground, with online micro-targeting of ads. This time in 2010 we were having a laugh about DC's shiny forehead on Tory billboards, this time ads will crop up on the facebook feeds of those pre-identified via Big Data as susceptible to photos of shiny foreheads.

    I don't think Brexit will feature much though. Ancient history, and not contentious on an inter-party basis.
  • Options
    OUTOUT Posts: 569
    kyf_100 said:

    SeanT said:

    kyf_100 said:



    SeanT's witticisms aside, it's noticeable how less aggressive people (here and elsewhere) seem to be now everyone's not constanty fighting over Europe.

    For an election that was called over Europe, over Brexit, over the subject that's had us all at each other's throats for the last year or more, it's really quite astounding how low key Brexit has been in the campaigns - and the conversations - so far.

    It's been an election about Britsh Rail and fox hunting and Hamas and the IRA and the 50% tax rate and energy price caps and 1983.

    But so far for me at least it hasn't really been about Brexit. Yet.

    As David Cameron said, the referendum (even though it destroyed his career) has lanced the pulsing boil that ached between the buttocks of British political life (OK he didn't quite put it like that but hey)

    The poison is being drained. We are all Brexiteers now, reluctant or eager, sad or giddy. The nation decided, so we move on and do the best we can, apart from a few wankers on Twitter.

    I'll make another prediction: in ten years Brexit will seem natural and normal, and we will be perfectly friendly with all our European friends and allies and neighbours, and we will probably be back in some tweaked form of the Single Market (without Free Movement, which I expect the EU will adjust anyway).
    Yes, a good point. We are all brexiteers now. Some ardent, some reluctant. This election has really rammed that home.

    Having a laugh with a mate the other day I suggested that in 100 years time, when all of this is ancient history, there will probably be pubs with names like The Remoaner's Arms. And Britain will carry on being Britain, come what may.

    My remainer friends are still convinced that when the EU starts playing silly buggers during negotiations, "reluctant" leavers will be crying out to stay in the EU. Good luck with that...

    Speaking for all of us, are you?
  • Options
    freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    @CycleFree

    "...It is one reason why I am contemplating a serious career change.

    In the end, you can only beat your head against a brick wall for so long before you decide that there are better things to do with your life - and head."

    Are you still pondering, Mrs. Free? Is there anything to really ponder about? You children are grown up, so what is stopping you doing what you want to do? Is it money? It was for me when I was thinking about bailing out of the public sector do do what I really wanted to do. In the end I just went for it and hang the financial security. There are a lot more important things in life, like enjoying it, we only get one crack at it and there isn't much to be said for being a financially secure corpse.

    I know that there are at least three others who regularly post on this site who have made similar life changing decisions and all of us seem to have done OK. Financially at the very least we have all kept the lupine pest from lolling around on the front doorstep and I think we have all been much happier doing what we wanted to do.

    Dear Mr Llama: you are a very wise fellow.



    But I will also admit to being a bit apprehensive. Like standing on the edge of the water wondering what it will be like to jump in.........

    A friend of mine in publishing recently abandoned his quite lucrative but increasingly dispiriting career to become... an artisanal butcher and foodie dude in Kent.

    He had the life, the Chiswick house, the private schools for the kids, etc

    Cushioned by London property prices he was able to sell up at a fat profit, buy a nice four bedroom oast house in Sandwich, and use the capital to invest in samphire picking and kombucha pickling.

    It wasn't the bravest decision by any means (that London property left him with half a million capital as a safety net). But nonetheless it was a big wrench in terms of friends, connections, lifestyle.

    He's never been happier. He walks the dogs and smokes his own bacon and sells it at intriguingly increasing profit. He is fulfilling himself, creatively, after a lifetime of corporate obedience.
    How interesting, I know the bloke you're talking about, not in person but he was recommended to me
    His bacon is genuinely brilliant.
    So I'm told, no doubt I'll meet him before long
  • Options
    houndtanghoundtang Posts: 450
    A week to go til the deadline and I'm not registered to vote. Just moved to a new build and postcode not recognised by electoral register website. Contacted local council for a form, but yet to receive despite two emails and a phone call. Hope I'm not disenfranchised.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    isam said:

    bobajobPB said:

    isam said:

    Funny, when I was likely to stand for Parliament, I was told I might get sued by Jim Messina for linking to Mark Pack's website! Bankrupts cant MP's they told me!

    Gentle encouragement!

    Mind you, I didn't really have any chance of winning so it didnt matter anyway

    Does Aaron have any chance? Caroline Flint is sitting on a majority of 8,000+ in a seat that has been held by Labour since the party came into existence. If Aaron can overturn Caroline then hats off to him!
    The Conservatives are odds on favs in Dagenham, once the biggest council estate in Europe... nothing makes sense anymore
    I am sorry, Mr. Sam, the Conservatives are odds on favourite to take Dagenham at the GE next month? Are you sure? Not wishing to cast aspersions or anything, but you haven't read the odds the wrong way round have you? Almost certainly not, but I felt I had to check.

    There is very little about this election that is making sense to me.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048
    Look, if they can have candidates not talk about shooting their non-white opponent, it'll be up on 2015.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,793
    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    Sort of on topic, I've had some very sensible Labour types I know be pretty blase about the Corbyn IRA stuff. They take the view as occasionally expressed on here that it basically no different than other politicians shaking hands with bad people at one point or another. I'd say there is a qualitative difference from most of those counter examples, but it does lead me to believe the eve less sensible will not be much fazed by it en masse, even though some undoubtedly will be.

    I admit I am not massively exercised by Corbyn's fellow travelling with the IRA. There are complicated and conflated reasons. We're supposed to have moved on from the Troubles. It's a bitter pill to swallow to accept as pillars of our society baby murderers who haven't​ acknowledged their evil deeds let alone atoned for them, but we swallow the pill because it has to be better than the killings. I have less energy for Corbyn who of course didn't kill anyone. Many people compromised with the killers. They were doing that in the course of duty while Jeremy Corbyn was freelancing, but it is all very murky and Corbyn doesn't really stand out from the murk.

    I am really more interested in what's happening now. I am not aware of Corbyn being egregious. Unlike Liam Fox who said Rodrigo Duterte, killer of drug addicts in cold blood, "shares our values" How dare Fox speak for us!
    Once you've decided that Corbyn is unfit to be Prime Minister (like 75-80% of the voters) it's a waste of energy to start raging about him.
    That too.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    OUT said:

    kyf_100 said:

    SeanT said:

    kyf_100 said:



    SeanT's witticisms aside, it's noticeable how less aggressive people (here and elsewhere) seem to be now everyone's not constanty fighting over Europe.

    For an election that was called over Europe, over Brexit, over the subject that's had us all at each other's throats for the last year or more, it's really quite astounding how low key Brexit has been in the campaigns - and the conversations - so far.

    It's been an election about Britsh Rail and fox hunting and Hamas and the IRA and the 50% tax rate and energy price caps and 1983.

    But so far for me at least it hasn't really been about Brexit. Yet.

    As David Cameron said, the referendum (even though it destroyed his career) has lanced the pulsing boil that ached between the buttocks of British political life (OK he didn't quite put it like that but hey)

    The poison is being drained. We are all Brexiteers now, reluctant or eager, sad or giddy. The nation decided, so we move on and do the best we can, apart from a few wankers on Twitter.

    I'll make another prediction: in ten years Brexit will seem natural and normal, and we will be perfectly friendly with all our European friends and allies and neighbours, and we will probably be back in some tweaked form of the Single Market (without Free Movement, which I expect the EU will adjust anyway).
    Yes, a good point. We are all brexiteers now. Some ardent, some reluctant. This election has really rammed that home.

    Having a laugh with a mate the other day I suggested that in 100 years time, when all of this is ancient history, there will probably be pubs with names like The Remoaner's Arms. And Britain will carry on being Britain, come what may.

    My remainer friends are still convinced that when the EU starts playing silly buggers during negotiations, "reluctant" leavers will be crying out to stay in the EU. Good luck with that...

    Speaking for all of us, are you?
    Well, if you aren't a brexiteer yet you are without doubt an involuntary brexitee.
  • Options
    JonCisBackJonCisBack Posts: 911
    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    Sort of on topic, I've had some very sensible Labour types I know be pretty blase about the Corbyn IRA stuff. They take the view as occasionally expressed on here that it basically no different than other politicians shaking hands with bad people at one point or another. I'd say there is a qualitative difference from most of those counter examples, but it does lead me to believe the eve less sensible will not be much fazed by it en masse, even though some undoubtedly will be.

    I admit I am not massively exercised by Corbyn's fellow travelling with the IRA. There are complicated and conflated reasons. We're supposed to have moved on from the Troubles. It's a bitter pill to swallow to accept as pillars of our society baby murderers who haven't​ acknowledged their evil deeds let alone atoned for them, but we swallow the pill because it has to be better than the killings. I have less energy for Corbyn who of course didn't kill anyone. Many people compromised with the killers. They were doing that in the course of duty while Jeremy Corbyn was freelancing, but it is all very murky and Corbyn doesn't really stand out from the murk.

    I am really more interested in what's happening now. I am not aware of Corbyn being egregious. Unlike Liam Fox who said Rodrigo Duterte, killer of drug addicts in cold blood, "shares our values" How dare Fox speak for us!
    Sorry but how is openly sympathising with people who murdered innocents in any fucking way at all "murky"?

    Here's an article from the Guardian on the subject. The Guardian. Not the Mail, not England football fans.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/jun/02/northernireland.kevintoolis

    "Obviously if the peace process is to continue we must draw a line somewhere on the past and its crimes. But that does not mean we have to indulge republicans at every turn."

    100% correct.

    Corbyn's support of the IRA's murderers is unforgivable to me, or many others who nevertheless have - as you say - moved on from the Troubles.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,592
    Ian Brady has died
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292

    Ian Brady has died

    Well thats politics off the news for the next 24hrs.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,449

    One of my all time favourite puns was when I put in a Wrath of Khan reference into a thread header.

    "He tasks me! He tasks me and I shall have him! I'll chase him round the Moons of Newbury, round the Angus Maelstrom, and round Pendle's flames before I give him up!"
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,505
    I'm not sure 'caught' is the right word here - it implies he was doing something secretive. Whereas tweeting suggests he was quite happy for all and sundry to know his opinions.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,715
    The jokes are so offensive that The Sun has no qualms in repeating them.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,900
    edited May 2017
    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    She didn't predict that - she predicted a narrow Hillary victory
    At one point, yes. But you (and others) miss the point.

    She refused to join the echo-chamber and she contributed news and opinions from sources that weren't in the Hillary camp. Plato showed us that there were two sides to the election.

    She is Jesus!

    SeanF

    My final guess was that Hillary would lose Florida, Iowa, Maine 2, and Ohio, but narrowly hold Penn. and the Mid West, eking out a 278/260 victory. So, I bet on Trump, as the odds were attractive.

    Roger

    It formatted wrongly. My only contribution was the sarcastic 'She is Jesus'. you have Geoff from Gibraltar to thank for the rest of the cloying nonsense. But if you guessed right I'm certain reading Plato's links didn't point you in the right direction.
  • Options
    freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107

    Ian Brady has died

    Shame he wasn't executed years ago
  • Options
    OUTOUT Posts: 569
    Ishmael_Z said:

    OUT said:

    kyf_100 said:

    SeanT said:

    kyf_100 said:



    SeanT's witticisms aside, it's noticeable how less aggressive people (here and elsewhere) seem to be now everyone's not constanty fighting over Europe.

    For an election that was called over Europe, over Brexit, over the subject that's had us all at each other's throats for the last year or more, it's really quite astounding how low key Brexit has been in the campaigns - and the conversations - so far.

    It's been an election about Britsh Rail and fox hunting and Hamas and the IRA and the 50% tax rate and energy price caps and 1983.

    But so far for me at least it hasn't really been about Brexit. Yet.

    As David Cameron said, the referendum (even though it destroyed his career) has lanced the pulsing boil that ached between the buttocks of British political life (OK he didn't quite put it like that but hey)

    The poison is being drained. We are all Brexiteers now, reluctant or eager, sad or giddy. The nation decided, so we move on and do the best we can, apart from a few wankers on Twitter.

    I'll make another prediction: in ten years Brexit will seem natural and normal, and we will be perfectly friendly with all our European friends and allies and neighbours, and we will probably be back in some tweaked form of the Single Market (without Free Movement, which I expect the EU will adjust anyway).
    Yes, a good point. We are all brexiteers now. Some ardent, some reluctant. This election has really rammed that home.

    Having a laugh with a mate the other day I suggested that in 100 years time, when all of this is ancient history, there will probably be pubs with names like The Remoaner's Arms. And Britain will carry on being Britain, come what may.

    My remainer friends are still convinced that when the EU starts playing silly buggers during negotiations, "reluctant" leavers will be crying out to stay in the EU. Good luck with that...

    Speaking for all of us, are you?
    Well, if you aren't a brexiteer yet you are without doubt an involuntary brexitee.
    Irish passport says otherwise.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,392
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,974
    The one about the patio umbrellas was rather funny.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,592
    kle4 said:

    Look, if they can have candidates not talk about shooting their non-white opponent, it'll be up on 2015.
    Makes you wonder about the UKIP candidates that got blackballed/didn't make the cut.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    DavidL said:
    Lung cancer I believe...really nasty way to go.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Ian Brady has died

    Good! He should have been topped years ago.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    Seems to be a friend/colleague of 'Gaunty'

    Politically incorrect tweets, not that funny, but hardly outrageous to the man in the street I'd say

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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,793
    kyf_100 said:

    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    PaulM said:


    I don't find Nick to be especially partisan. I think he posted after the 2010 election that there were things that he knew from canvassing but wasn't at liberty to say publicly (and he did caveat his postings by saying he was a loyal Labour MP which would inform what he would say publicly, but that he would endeavour to not post things that he knew to be untrue.) , but I don't think he has been ramping or campaigning on here.

    He's also quite willing to get into the statistical side of things, which I like.

    I recall Stewart Jackson was more keen to get into the partisan back and forth, which PB.com isn't really the best venue.

    Both are informative, and, more importantly, polite. Neither villifies those who do not agree with them.
    That this is effective politics - Nick has previously said that you don't persuade anyone to agree with you by abusing you - takes nothing away from it's laudability on a site such as this.
    I've noticed that since I stepped back from the front line, the more aggressive comments towards me have eased off. I sort of miss them.
    Where's SeanT when you need him?
    SeanT's witticisms aside, it's noticeable how less aggressive people (here and elsewhere) seem to be now everyone's not constanty fighting over Europe.

    For an election that was called over Europe, over Brexit, over the subject that's had us all at each other's throats for the last year or more, it's really quite astounding how low key Brexit has been in the campaigns - and the conversations - so far.

    It's been an election about Britsh Rail and fox hunting and Hamas and the IRA and the 50% tax rate and energy price caps and 1983.

    But so far for me at least it hasn't really been about Brexit. Yet.
    It should be about Brexit. The Leave campaign didn't have a plan and Theresa May whose annointment this election is designed for, still doesn't have a plan now.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    The jokes are so offensive that The Sun has no qualms in repeating them.
    I thought the patio umbrella one was borderline funny, though they look to me much more like a rear view of a group of (Christian) nuns.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    rcs1000 said:

    Macron says he is not in favour of Eurozone debt mutualisation for any past debts. First diplomatic victory for Merkel?

    If you'l excuse me for delving into the technical, the best proposed/suggestd Eurozone debt mutualisation plan was this:

    - there would be an amount of mutualised debt up to, say, 60%* of GDP that countries were allowed to issue
    - such debt is still issued by the country, and the country is still responsible for the repayment and debt service, but in the event of default the Eurozone was jointly and severally responsible for its repayment (in all likelihood, the ECB would step up)
    - this would mean that the first chunk of debt a country issued would be very cheap, but that any additional debt on top of the 60% was very expensive
    - this would be phased in by countries issuing new Eurozone guaranteed debt, not by converting existing debt
    - the effect of this would be to remove all funding risk from highly indebted countries for about 6 to 10 years (as very few Eurozone countries have that much to roll over in the near term)

    I don't think it's likely to happen. But if common Eurozone debt were to come about, this is likely how it would be implemented.

    * The 60% is just a placeholder. Use whatever number you prefer.
    Mr Robert, jolly good. Where would such a plan leave Greece, which already has debts that will never be repaid, and, for that matter, Italy and Portugal?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068

    Scott_P said:
    I'm content for such choices to be made by the consumer, not Government.

    Clear labelling is the only criteria I'd impose.
    Agreed. (Which, I would note, counts out NAFTA. A law requiring foods that contained GM ingredients be labelled as such was struck down by an ISDS tribunal.)
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,974
    edited May 2017

    The jokes are so offensive that The Sun has no qualms in repeating them.
    They're the sorts of jokes that appear routinely in the Sun.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,715

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    Sort of on topic, I've had some very sensible Labour types I know be pretty blase about the Corbyn IRA stuff. They take the view as occasionally expressed on here that it basically no different than other politicians shaking hands with bad people at one point or another. I'd say there is a qualitative difference from most of those counter examples, but it does lead me to believe the eve less sensible will not be much fazed by it en masse, even though some undoubtedly will be.

    I admit I am not massively exercised by Corbyn's fellow travelling with the IRA. There are complicated and conflated reasons. We're supposed to have moved on from the Troubles. It's a bitter pill to swallow to accept as pillars of our society baby murderers who haven't​ acknowledged their evil deeds let alone atoned for them, but we swallow the pill because it has to be better than the killings. I have less energy for Corbyn who of course didn't kill anyone. Many people compromised with the killers. They were doing that in the course of duty while Jeremy Corbyn was freelancing, but it is all very murky and Corbyn doesn't really stand out from the murk.

    I am really more interested in what's happening now. I am not aware of Corbyn being egregious. Unlike Liam Fox who said Rodrigo Duterte, killer of drug addicts in cold blood, "shares our values" How dare Fox speak for us!
    Sorry but how is openly sympathising with people who murdered innocents in any fucking way at all "murky"?

    Here's an article from the Guardian on the subject. The Guardian. Not the Mail, not England football fans.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/jun/02/northernireland.kevintoolis

    "Obviously if the peace process is to continue we must draw a line somewhere on the past and its crimes. But that does not mean we have to indulge republicans at every turn."

    100% correct.

    Corbyn's support of the IRA's murderers is unforgivable to me, or many others who nevertheless have - as you say - moved on from the Troubles.
    Whereas the Tories just had mates like General Pinochet:

    "During the period of Pinochet's rule, various investigations have identified the murder of 1,200 to 3,200 people with up to 80,000 people forcibly interned and as many as 30,000 tortured. According to the Chilean government, the official number of deaths and forced disappearances stands at 3,095." (Wikipedia)
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,900
    edited May 2017

    Ian Brady has died

    A good time to bury bad news

    (I made myself laugh with that one!)
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    OUT said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    OUT said:

    kyf_100 said:

    SeanT said:

    kyf_100 said:



    SeanT's witticisms aside, it's noticeable how less aggressive people (here and elsewhere) seem to be now everyone's not constanty fighting over Europe.

    For an election that was called over Europe, over Brexit, over the subject that's had us all at each other's throats for the last year or more, it's really quite astounding how low key Brexit has been in the campaigns - and the conversations - so far.

    It's been an election about Britsh Rail and fox hunting and Hamas and the IRA and the 50% tax rate and energy price caps and 1983.

    But so far for me at least it hasn't really been about Brexit. Yet.

    As David Cameron said, the referendum (even though it destroyed his career) has lanced the pulsing boil that ached between the buttocks of British political life (OK he didn't quite put it like that but hey)

    The poison is being drained. We are all Brexiteers now, reluctant or eager, sad or giddy. The nation decided, so we move on and do the best we can, apart from a few wankers on Twitter.

    I'll make another prediction: in ten years Brexit will seem natural and normal, and we will be perfectly friendly with all our European friends and allies and neighbours, and we will probably be back in some tweaked form of the Single Market (without Free Movement, which I expect the EU will adjust anyway).
    Yes, a good point. We are all brexiteers now. Some ardent, some reluctant. This election has really rammed that home.

    Having a laugh with a mate the other day I suggested that in 100 years time, when all of this is ancient history, there will probably be pubs with names like The Remoaner's Arms. And Britain will carry on being Britain, come what may.

    My remainer friends are still convinced that when the EU starts playing silly buggers during negotiations, "reluctant" leavers will be crying out to stay in the EU. Good luck with that...

    Speaking for all of us, are you?
    Well, if you aren't a brexiteer yet you are without doubt an involuntary brexitee.
    Irish passport says otherwise.
    Ah, that'll be the Irish saltire then?
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,974
    DavidL said:
    Just a pity it didn't happen 60 years ago.
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    Sort of on topic, I've had some very sensible Labour types I know be pretty blase about the Corbyn IRA stuff. They take the view as occasionally expressed on here that it basically no different than other politicians shaking hands with bad people at one point or another. I'd say there is a qualitative difference from most of those counter examples, but it does lead me to believe the eve less sensible will not be much fazed by it en masse, even though some undoubtedly will be.

    I admit I am not massively exercised by Corbyn's fellow travelling with the IRA. There are complicated and conflated reasons. We're supposed to have moved on from the Troubles. It's a bitter pill to swallow to accept as pillars of our society baby murderers who haven't​ acknowledged their evil deeds let alone atoned for them, but we swallow the pill because it has to be better than the killings. I have less energy for Corbyn who of course didn't kill anyone. Many people compromised with the killers. They were doing that in the course of duty while Jeremy Corbyn was freelancing, but it is all very murky and Corbyn doesn't really stand out from the murk.

    I am really more interested in what's happening now. I am not aware of Corbyn being egregious. Unlike Liam Fox who said Rodrigo Duterte, killer of drug addicts in cold blood, "shares our values" How dare Fox speak for us!
    Sorry but how is openly sympathising with people who murdered innocents in any fucking way at all "murky"?

    Here's an article from the Guardian on the subject. The Guardian. Not the Mail, not England football fans.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/jun/02/northernireland.kevintoolis

    "Obviously if the peace process is to continue we must draw a line somewhere on the past and its crimes. But that does not mean we have to indulge republicans at every turn."

    100% correct.

    Corbyn's support of the IRA's murderers is unforgivable to me, or many others who nevertheless have - as you say - moved on from the Troubles.
    Whereas the Tories just had mates like General Pinochet:

    "During the period of Pinochet's rule, various investigations have identified the murder of 1,200 to 3,200 people with up to 80,000 people forcibly interned and as many as 30,000 tortured. According to the Chilean government, the official number of deaths and forced disappearances stands at 3,095." (Wikipedia)
    Yep. I've always wondered how Tories on here felt about this.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048
    FF43 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    PaulM said:


    I don't find Nick to be especially partisan. I think he posted after the 2010 election that there were things that he knew from canvassing but wasn't at liberty to say publicly (and he did caveat his postings by saying he was a loyal Labour MP which would inform what he would say publicly, but that he would endeavour to not post things that he knew to be untrue.) , but I don't think he has been ramping or campaigning on here.

    He's also quite willing to get into the statistical side of things, which I like.

    I recall Stewart Jackson was more keen to get into the partisan back and forth, which PB.com isn't really the best venue.

    Both are informative, and, more importantly, polite. Neither villifies those who do not agree with them.
    That this is effective politics - Nick has previously said that you don't persuade anyone to agree with you by abusing you - takes nothing away from it's laudability on a site such as this.
    I've noticed that since I stepped back from the front line, the more aggressive comments towards me have eased off. I sort of miss them.
    Where's SeanT when you need him?
    SeanT's witticisms aside, it's noticeable how less aggressive people (here and elsewhere) seem to be now everyone's not constanty fighting over Europe.

    For an election that was called over Europe, over Brexit, over the subject that's had us all at each other's throats for the last year or more, it's really quite astounding how low key Brexit has been in the campaigns - and the conversations - so far.

    It's been an election about Britsh Rail and fox hunting and Hamas and the IRA and the 50% tax rate and energy price caps and 1983.

    But so far for me at least it hasn't really been about Brexit. Yet.
    It should be about Brexit. The Leave campaign didn't have a plan and Theresa May whose annointment this election is designed for, still doesn't have a plan now.
    Let's see the opposition lead with that and see where it gets them. It might well be true, but is it a vote winner?
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    DavidL said:
    Lung cancer I believe...really nasty way to go.
    Every time I go over on the M62 I think of those two people. I was about 11 when it happened.
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,963
    isam said:
    Who are their opponents, and how can I donate?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,002

    kle4 said:

    Look, if they can have candidates not talk about shooting their non-white opponent, it'll be up on 2015.
    Makes you wonder about the UKIP candidates that got blackballed/didn't make the cut.
    Can't imagine there were any
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,974

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    Sort of on topic, I've had some very sensible Labour types I know be pretty blase about the Corbyn IRA stuff. They take the view as occasionally expressed on here that it basically no different than other politicians shaking hands with bad people at one point or another. I'd say there is a qualitative difference from most of those counter examples, but it does lead me to believe the eve less sensible will not be much fazed by it en masse, even though some undoubtedly will be.

    I admit I am not massively exercised by Corbyn's fellow travelling with the IRA. There are complicated and conflated reasons. We're supposed to have moved on from the Troubles. It's a bitter pill to swallow to accept as pillars of our society baby murderers who haven't​ acknowledged their evil deeds let alone atoned for them, but we swallow the pill because it has to be better than the killings. I have less energy for Corbyn who of course didn't kill anyone. Many people compromised with the killers. They were doing that in the course of duty while Jeremy Corbyn was freelancing, but it is all very murky and Corbyn doesn't really stand out from the murk.

    I am really more interested in what's happening now. I am not aware of Corbyn being egregious. Unlike Liam Fox who said Rodrigo Duterte, killer of drug addicts in cold blood, "shares our values" How dare Fox speak for us!
    Sorry but how is openly sympathising with people who murdered innocents in any fucking way at all "murky"?

    Here's an article from the Guardian on the subject. The Guardian. Not the Mail, not England football fans.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/jun/02/northernireland.kevintoolis

    "Obviously if the peace process is to continue we must draw a line somewhere on the past and its crimes. But that does not mean we have to indulge republicans at every turn."

    100% correct.

    Corbyn's support of the IRA's murderers is unforgivable to me, or many others who nevertheless have - as you say - moved on from the Troubles.
    Whereas the Tories just had mates like General Pinochet:

    "During the period of Pinochet's rule, various investigations have identified the murder of 1,200 to 3,200 people with up to 80,000 people forcibly interned and as many as 30,000 tortured. According to the Chilean government, the official number of deaths and forced disappearances stands at 3,095." (Wikipedia)
    Yep. I've always wondered how Tories on here felt about this.
    I feel ..... Nothing.

    Pinochet, unlike the IRA was no danger to this country.
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    Sort of on topic, I've had some very sensible Labour types I know be pretty blase about the Corbyn IRA stuff. They take the view as occasionally expressed on here that it basically no different than other politicians shaking hands with bad people at one point or another. I'd say there is a qualitative difference from most of those counter examples, but it does lead me to believe the eve less sensible will not be much fazed by it en masse, even though some undoubtedly will be.

    I admit I am not massively exercised by Corbyn's fellow travelling with the IRA. There are complicated and conflated reasons. We're supposed to have moved on from the Troubles. It's a bitter pill to swallow to accept as pillars of our society baby murderers who haven't​ acknowledged their evil deeds let alone atoned for them, but we swallow the pill because it has to be better than the killings. I have less energy for Corbyn who of course didn't kill anyone. Many people compromised with the killers. They were doing that in the course of duty while Jeremy Corbyn was freelancing, but it is all very murky and Corbyn doesn't really stand out from the murk.

    I am really more interested in what's happening now. I am not aware of Corbyn being egregious. Unlike Liam Fox who said Rodrigo Duterte, killer of drug addicts in cold blood, "shares our values" How dare Fox speak for us!
    Sorry but how is openly sympathising with people who murdered innocents in any fucking way at all "murky"?

    Here's an article from the Guardian on the subject. The Guardian. Not the Mail, not England football fans.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/jun/02/northernireland.kevintoolis

    "Obviously if the peace process is to continue we must draw a line somewhere on the past and its crimes. But that does not mean we have to indulge republicans at every turn."

    100% correct.

    Corbyn's support of the IRA's murderers is unforgivable to me, or many others who nevertheless have - as you say - moved on from the Troubles.
    Whereas the Tories just had mates like General Pinochet:

    "During the period of Pinochet's rule, various investigations have identified the murder of 1,200 to 3,200 people with up to 80,000 people forcibly interned and as many as 30,000 tortured. According to the Chilean government, the official number of deaths and forced disappearances stands at 3,095." (Wikipedia)
    Yep. I've always wondered how Tories on here felt about this.
    I feel ..... Nothing.

    Pinochet, unlike the IRA was no danger to this country.
    So the morality of these things only matter when they pose a direct threat to us? Well, it's one view I guess.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    edited May 2017
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,449
    edited May 2017
    ELBOW for week-ending 14th May, updated for Survation and ICM:
    	       Con	Lab	LD	UKIP	Tory Lead
    23-Apr-17 45.5 26.1 10.4 8.6 19.4
    30-Apr-17 46.3 28.1 10.2 6.7 18.2
    07-May-17 47.1 28.5 9.4 6.4 18.6
    14-May-17 47.1 30.2 9.2 5.3 16.9
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited May 2017

    kle4 said:

    Look, if they can have candidates not talk about shooting their non-white opponent, it'll be up on 2015.
    Makes you wonder about the UKIP candidates that got blackballed/didn't make the cut.
    SCon councillors now aren't they?
  • Options
    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,045
    One man's terrorist is one man's freedom fighter. 'Twas always such...
  • Options
    CassandraCassandra Posts: 3
    This was probably posted earlier, but Is an excellent assessment of the madness involved in Andrew Murray's appointment to lead the Labour campaign. And all the more powerful coming from a Labour supporter. Love the Christopher Hitchens quote...

    https://capx.co/corbyns-campaign-chief-is-an-apologist-for-tyranny/

    Have ANY Labour candidates commented on this lunacy so far? I know their attitude seems to be that JC must "own" the inevitable defeat, but I think we are now at the point where anyone with a shred of decency should disown him without equivocation.
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,963
    OUT said:

    kyf_100 said:

    SeanT said:

    kyf_100 said:



    SeanT's witticisms aside, it's noticeable how less aggressive people (here and elsewhere) seem to be now everyone's not constanty fighting over Europe.

    For an election that was called over Europe, over Brexit, over the subject that's had us all at each other's throats for the last year or more, it's really quite astounding how low key Brexit has been in the campaigns - and the conversations - so far.

    It's been an election about Britsh Rail and fox hunting and Hamas and the IRA and the 50% tax rate and energy price caps and 1983.

    But so far for me at least it hasn't really been about Brexit. Yet.

    As David Cameron said, the referendum (even though it destroyed his career) has lanced the pulsing boil that ached between the buttocks of British political life (OK he didn't quite put it like that but hey)

    The poison is being drained. We are all Brexiteers now, reluctant or eager, sad or giddy. The nation decided, so we move on and do the best we can, apart from a few wankers on Twitter.

    I'll make another prediction: in ten years Brexit will seem natural and normal, and we will be perfectly friendly with all our European friends and allies and neighbours, and we will probably be back in some tweaked form of the Single Market (without Free Movement, which I expect the EU will adjust anyway).
    Yes, a good point. We are all brexiteers now. Some ardent, some reluctant. This election has really rammed that home.

    Having a laugh with a mate the other day I suggested that in 100 years time, when all of this is ancient history, there will probably be pubs with names like The Remoaner's Arms. And Britain will carry on being Britain, come what may.

    My remainer friends are still convinced that when the EU starts playing silly buggers during negotiations, "reluctant" leavers will be crying out to stay in the EU. Good luck with that...

    Speaking for all of us, are you?
    The trend is your friend... 52% last year now 68% according to YouGov, isn't it?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,592

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    Sort of on topic, I've had some very sensible Labour types I know be pretty blase about the Corbyn IRA stuff. They take the view as occasionally expressed on here that it basically no different than other politicians shaking hands with bad people at one point or another. I'd say there is a qualitative difference from most of those counter examples, but it does lead me to believe the eve less sensible will not be much fazed by it en masse, even though some undoubtedly will be.

    I admit I am not massively exercised by Corbyn's fellow travelling with the IRA. There are complicated and conflated reasons. We're supposed to have moved on from the Troubles. It's a bitter pill to swallow to accept as pillars of our society baby murderers who haven't​ acknowledged their evil deeds let alone atoned for them, but we swallow the pill because it has to be better than the killings. I have less energy for Corbyn who of course didn't kill anyone. Many people compromised with the killers. They were doing that in the course of duty while Jeremy Corbyn was freelancing, but it is all very murky and Corbyn doesn't really stand out from the murk.

    I am really more interested in what's happening now. I am not aware of Corbyn being egregious. Unlike Liam Fox who said Rodrigo Duterte, killer of drug addicts in cold blood, "shares our values" How dare Fox speak for us!
    Sorry but how is openly sympathising with people who murdered innocents in any fucking way at all "murky"?

    Here's an article from the Guardian on the subject. The Guardian. Not the Mail, not England football fans.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/jun/02/northernireland.kevintoolis

    "Obviously if the peace process is to continue we must draw a line somewhere on the past and its crimes. But that does not mean we have to indulge republicans at every turn."

    100% correct.

    Corbyn's support of the IRA's murderers is unforgivable to me, or many others who nevertheless have - as you say - moved on from the Troubles.
    Whereas the Tories just had mates like General Pinochet:

    "During the period of Pinochet's rule, various investigations have identified the murder of 1,200 to 3,200 people with up to 80,000 people forcibly interned and as many as 30,000 tortured. According to the Chilean government, the official number of deaths and forced disappearances stands at 3,095." (Wikipedia)
    I guess there was a loyalty to Pinochet for his assistance during the Falklands.

    I know some viewed him as the lesser of two evils.

    He was a horrible human being, but Chile moved on.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Roger said:

    Ian Brady has died

    A good time to bury bad news

    (I made myself laugh with that one!)
    And me, but I thought a smiley would be inappropriate.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,900
    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    Sort of on topic, I've had some very sensible Labour types I know be pretty blase about the Corbyn IRA stuff. They take the view as occasionally expressed on here that it basically no different than other politicians shaking hands with bad people at one point or another. I'd say there is a qualitative difference from most of those counter examples, but it does lead me to believe the eve less sensible will not be much fazed by it en masse, even though some undoubtedly will be.

    I admit I am not massively exercised by Corbyn's fellow travelling with the IRA. There are complicated and conflated reasons. We're supposed to have moved on from the Troubles. It's a bitter pill to swallow to accept as pillars of our society baby murderers who haven't​ acknowledged their evil deeds let alone atoned for them, but we swallow the pill because it has to be better than the killings. I have less energy for Corbyn who of course didn't kill anyone. Many people compromised with the killers. They were doing that in the course of duty while Jeremy Corbyn was freelancing, but it is all very murky and Corbyn doesn't really stand out from the murk.

    I am really more interested in what's happening now. I am not aware of Corbyn being egregious. Unlike Liam Fox who said Rodrigo Duterte, killer of drug addicts in cold blood, "shares our values" How dare Fox speak for us!
    Sorry but how is openly sympathising with people who murdered innocents in any fucking way at all "murky"?

    Here's an article from the Guardian on the subject. The Guardian. Not the Mail, not England football fans.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/jun/02/northernireland.kevintoolis

    "Obviously if the peace process is to continue we must draw a line somewhere on the past and its crimes. But that does not mean we have to indulge republicans at every turn."

    100% correct.

    Corbyn's support of the IRA's murderers is unforgivable to me, or many others who nevertheless have - as you say - moved on from the Troubles.
    Whereas the Tories just had mates like General Pinochet:

    "During the period of Pinochet's rule, various investigations have identified the murder of 1,200 to 3,200 people with up to 80,000 people forcibly interned and as many as 30,000 tortured. According to the Chilean government, the official number of deaths and forced disappearances stands at 3,095." (Wikipedia)
    Yep. I've always wondered how Tories on here felt about this.
    I feel ..... Nothing.

    Pinochet, unlike the IRA was no danger to this country.
    You're in distinguished company. Maggie felt the same
  • Options
    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,045
    edited May 2017

    ELBOW for week-ending 14th May, updated for Survation and ICM:

    	       Con	Lab	LD	UKIP	Tory Lead
    23-Apr-17 45.5 26.1 10.4 8.6 19.4
    30-Apr-17 46.3 28.1 10.2 6.7 18.2
    07-May-17 47.1 28.5 9.4 6.4 18.6
    14-May-17 47.1 30.2 9.2 5.3 16.9
    Equates to massive Tory majority - Lib Dems not winning here by the looks of it.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    So do we now have a causus belli to go after North Korea? They're being fingered for the cyberattack.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,592
    Alistair said:



    kle4 said:

    Look, if they can have candidates not talk about shooting their non-white opponent, it'll be up on 2015.
    Makes you wonder about the UKIP candidates that got blackballed/didn't make the cut.
    SCon councillors now aren't they?
    Scotland doesn't do racism.

    They haven't got the time, they are too busy engaging in sectarianism.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,974

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    Sort of on topic, I've had some very sensible Labour types I know be pretty blase about the Corbyn IRA stuff. They take the view as occasionally expressed on here that it basically no different than other politicians shaking hands with bad people at one point or another. I'd say there is a qualitative difference from most of those counter examples, but it does lead me to believe the eve less sensible will not be much fazed by it en masse, even though some undoubtedly will be.

    I admit I am not massively exercised by Corbyn's fellow travelling with the IRA. There are complicated and conflated reasons. We're supposed to have moved on from the Troubles. It's a bitter pill to swallow to accept as pillars of our society baby murderers who haven't​ acknowledged their evil deeds let alone atoned for them, but we swallow the pill because it

    I am really more interested in what's happening now. I am not aware of Corbyn being egregious. Unlike Liam Fox who said Rodrigo Duterte, killer of drug addicts in cold blood, "shares our values" How dare Fox speak for us!
    Sorry but how is openly sympathising with people who murdered innocents in any fucking way at all "murky"?

    Here's an article from the Guardian on the subject. The Guardian. Not the Mail, not England football fans.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/jun/02/northernireland.kevintoolis

    "Obviously if the peace process is to continue we must draw a line somewhere on the past and its crimes. But that does not mean we have to indulge republicans at every turn."

    100% correct.

    Corbyn's support of the IRA's murderers is unforgivable to me, or many others who nevertheless have - as you say - moved on from the Troubles.
    Whereas the Tories just had mates like General Pinochet:

    "During the period of Pinochet's rule, various investigations have identified the murder of 1,200 to 3,200 people with up to 80,000 people forcibly interned and as many as 30,000 tortured. According to the Chilean government, the official number of deaths and forced disappearances stands at 3,095." (Wikipedia)
    Yep. I've always wondered how Tories on here felt about this.
    I feel ..... Nothing.

    Pinochet, unlike the IRA was no danger to this country.
    So the morality of these things only matter when they pose a direct threat to us? Well, it's one view I guess.
    Largely yes. Lots of our allies have been brutes.

    But, for a British politician to side with people who kill British citizens is treachery.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited May 2017
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,715

    ELBOW for week-ending 14th May, updated for Survation and ICM:

    	       Con	Lab	LD	UKIP	Tory Lead
    23-Apr-17 45.5 26.1 10.4 8.6 19.4
    30-Apr-17 46.3 28.1 10.2 6.7 18.2
    07-May-17 47.1 28.5 9.4 6.4 18.6
    14-May-17 47.1 30.2 9.2 5.3 16.9
    Any chance of a graph, Dr P?
  • Options
    trawltrawl Posts: 142
    Corbyn - IRA - "murky".

    Dear me.

    The mother of one of those murdered in the Birmingham pub bombings has already slammed the Labour leadership in the Birmingham Mail. When those bombs and others were planted ask yourself whose side the hard-left were on; that of those doing the planting or that of the British subjects about to be murdered. That such a question arises in the context of Labour's leadership says it all about that party and the shower running it. The "morons" should hang their heads in shame. Perhaps they should consider that Guardian t-shirt question - "What would Clem do?"
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting interview with Corbyn, including the revelation that he took part in debates at his grammar school calling for it to be made comprehensive

    Did he call for it to stop taking boarders as well?
    There is at least 1 state comprehensive boarding school
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/schools/state-comprehensive-boarding-school-royal-alexandra-albert-offers-best-of-both-worlds-8968092.html
    I went to two comprehensives with boarding houses, both wete only about 10% of the school and mostly army kids, though the second one seemed also to hava a lot of kids in care of social services.

    I don't know if they still have them.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,900
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Roger said:

    Ian Brady has died

    A good time to bury bad news

    (I made myself laugh with that one!)
    And me, but I thought a smiley would be inappropriate.
    Even the BBC are struggling to know how sombre they ought to sound
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting interview with Corbyn, including the revelation that he took part in debates at his grammar school calling for it to be made comprehensive

    Did he call for it to stop taking boarders as well?
    There is at least 1 state comprehensive boarding school
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/schools/state-comprehensive-boarding-school-royal-alexandra-albert-offers-best-of-both-worlds-8968092.html
    So is Duke of Yorks RMS at Dover-Really good school and is NOT just for military families as the name might suggest.
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    freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107
    Roger said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Roger said:

    Ian Brady has died

    A good time to bury bad news

    (I made myself laugh with that one!)
    And me, but I thought a smiley would be inappropriate.
    Even the BBC are struggling to know how sombre they ought to sound
    There's nothing sombre about his death
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    chestnut said:
    Citizen Smythe's worried the au pairs wages might rise
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,592
    President Trump revealed highly classified information to the Russian foreign minister and ambassador in a White House meeting last week, according to current and former U.S. officials, who said that Trump’s disclosures jeopardized a critical source of intelligence on the Islamic State.

    The information Trump relayed had been provided by a U.S. partner through an intelligence-sharing arrangement considered so sensitive that details have been withheld from allies and tightly restricted even within the U.S. government, officials said.

    The partner had not given the United States permission to share the material with Russia, and officials said that Trump’s decision to do so risks cooperation from an ally that has access to the inner workings of the Islamic State. After Trump’s meeting, senior White House officials took steps to contain the damage, placing calls to the CIA and National Security Agency.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html?utm_term=.0f98c8a44c2a
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    freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting interview with Corbyn, including the revelation that he took part in debates at his grammar school calling for it to be made comprehensive

    Did he call for it to stop taking boarders as well?
    There is at least 1 state comprehensive boarding school
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/schools/state-comprehensive-boarding-school-royal-alexandra-albert-offers-best-of-both-worlds-8968092.html
    So is Duke of Yorks RMS at Dover-Really good school and is NOT just for military families as the name might suggest.
    Are you sure its not just military families - it always was.

    And I'm not sure its a really good school anymore.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341


    So the morality of these things only matter when they pose a direct threat to us? Well, it's one view I guess.

    I don't recall Pinochet trying to bomb London, Birmingham, Manchester etc. The IRA did it regularly.

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