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    KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850
    My other half works as an occupational therapist in the NHS. Her office's systems were affected but not until the end of the day. The stories one hears about organisation in the NHS, from top to bottom - today comes as absolutely no surprise. As she said this evening, "the IT people know as much about computers as my grandma. There are probably loads of holes and open doors for hackers."
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    I've just been watching the Newspaper Review on Sky News, which made it plain just what a political hot potato this IT crisis within the NHS really is ...... and it isn't anywhere near to being sorted yet.
    Really and truly how can it NOT have a political dimension?
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    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    PaulM said:

    Y0kel said:

    Ive posted on South Belfast twice, suggesting a DUP gain.

    I did this in 2105 and got burned as McDonnell held on with one of the lowest winning percentages you could imagine, in fact one of the lowest in parliamentary history. Honestly, some day the arse is going to fall out his vote, you do get the feeling that he is teetering at times and his survival ironically was probably helped by the handful of guilty unionist votes that he has collected consistently over the years.

    Paula Bradshaw for Alliance is a strong campaigner but where will she pick up votes from? They would have to be UUP votes, which she has already farmed some (Paula could wear a sash on a good day) or the SDLPs if McDonnell falls off a cliff. How much more can she get? Open question. Her more likely target to steal is McDonnell.

    The DUP were beaten out last time by the presence of Bob Stoker of UKIP who's 1900 votes did the damage. Stoker is a long standing ex UUP guy in the area and he carries a decent vote. He is not standing, partially as a nudge to the Unionist parties to get their act together in the constituency. Where his votes go in a tight race is most likely DUP, if they turn out

    The DUP should really win this seat and that they don't is part of a long term problem in mobilising the Unionist vote, in particular the working class unionist vote. They have, sadly perhaps, picked former Assembly member Pengelly as candidate. She is not exactly a standout, therefore her ability to mobilise any more than the 2015 tally vote plus some homeless UKIP voters is open to question. That could well be enough though and I have backed that it is.

    Yes South Belfast is in many ways diverse with a mix old money, new blow ins with cash, students, people who still think they are students and a more ethnically diverse element. It also holds some large loyalist areas like Taughmonagh (where the head of UDA hangs out), the Village and Belvoir. It is these areas that could close it for the DUP if they turned out but the loyalists have long had a fairly fractious history with the DUP, something that the ignorant from the outside don't quite understand.

    On the nationalist side Sinn Fein have been improving and if they perform similarly or slightly above 2015 may fatally hurt McDonnell. They'd be delighted to do so in their war to eliminate the SDLP.

    Side note. A number of election counts including Belfast constituencies will be held at the former site of the Maze prison. Should bring back a few memories for some party hacks...

    Wasn't the DUP candidate's father an infamous Loyalist figure ?
    You are confusing some fundamentals there about loyalist paramiltaries
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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    Jason said:

    The government need to get all over this NHS shambles quick sharp, which I expect them to do all weekend. Tricky in the middle of an election campaign, but necessary. Labour will of course blame them for this, but it will be forgotten about by the end of next week. Impact on the GE result - precisely zero.

    Agreed that there will be no impact on the GE result. Doubt there will even be a shift in polling. I am no fan of the tories and I hadn't even considered that the government could be at fault for this until seeing suggestions on this board. Especially considering the global angle. It's a managerial problem in the NHS, not a particular policy related problem, so hard to pin blame on May or see what Corbyn/Labour could/would do differently.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    marke09 said:

    How expensive in terms of GE seats, whether justified or not is today's cyber attack likely to be for the Tories? To a large extent that will depend on just how quickly the problem is sorted out and that no further problems arise.
    My guess is that it will cost the Tories at least 10-20 seats, even if resolved quickly and fairly painlessly and on that basis the 151-200 seat band for Labour at evens now looks attractive, as does, arguably, a buy of total Labour seats spread bet with Sporting at 160 ..... I've taken both bets tonight, but DYOR.

    Do you really think it will swing seats? This is a global attack that has affected every nation, will the government really be blamed by swing voters? One could just as easily suggest it will focus minds on credibility and thus swing seats TO the government. But I doubt it either way, if this is resolved quickly it will be tomorrows fish and chip paper.
    You're right of course in the sense that this was a global attack, but that said it smacks of earth-shattering incompetence taking into account the fact that it could have been avoided by the simple use of a Microsoft "patch" which had been readily available for some time.
    If true, then this is very damning for the Tories and could cost them dearly especially in an area, i.e. the NHS, where they are already not fully trusted. Yes, at least 10-20 seats I would say, maybe more. Hope I'm wrong, but my wallet believes I'm right.
    Are you really saying that the Conservative party has been stopping NHS IT security ?

    Really, your reasoning is bizarre.
    No, I'm simply saying that the Government will be held responsible for major shortcomings in the NHS, which whether true or not these will inevitably be put down to under-funding .... it has simply been forever thus. Don't take my word for it, just wait for the next batch of polls to appear over the next few days and you'll see for yourself.
    so the SNP will be similarly punished for the Scottish attacks?
    Remember the global economic meltdown that started in America? Labour still got voted out. Sometimes the electorate is unfair. As to who, if anyone, will be blamed for this, let's wait and see. There are still some things that do not make sense. If the NHS was targeted, then as y0kel hinted, there may be more to this. If it is just phishing and then exploiting old protocols to spread through networks, it ought to be industry-agnostic.
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    When was the last time Jeremy Corbyn actually lost an election?
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Talking of starting in America, it looks as if this attack is exploiting at least two loopholes discovered or invented by the NSA but not notified to Microsoft for patching. Politicians of all stripes should think hard before demanding vendors leave open back doors or weaken encryption.
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,320
    Surely the thing to bear in mind is that on any particular day or even week the proportion of people using the NHS is very small.

    So unless it blows up into an absolutely massive emergency (with say a large number of hospitals being forced to completely close for say at least a week) then the proportion of people impacted just isn't great enough to impact voting intention across the whole population.

    The other thing is that, again unless it becomes a massive emergency, it's unlikely to remain top of the news agenda because the focus will inevitably move back to the GE campaign.

    Next week both Con and Lab are launching their manifestos - they are both bound to lead the news agenda.
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited May 2017

    Jason said:

    The government need to get all over this NHS shambles quick sharp, which I expect them to do all weekend. Tricky in the middle of an election campaign, but necessary. Labour will of course blame them for this, but it will be forgotten about by the end of next week. Impact on the GE result - precisely zero.

    Agreed that there will be no impact on the GE result. Doubt there will even be a shift in polling. I am no fan of the tories and I hadn't even considered that the government could be at fault for this until seeing suggestions on this board. Especially considering the global angle. It's a managerial problem in the NHS, not a particular policy related problem, so hard to pin blame on May or see what Corbyn/Labour could/would do differently.
    It's the GCHQ/NSA angle which is dynamite. Not sure it'll blow up though. Too techy & complicated for the general public / journos / OAP politicians to get their heads around.

    These are hacking tools we've (jointly) spent hundreds of millions of pounds developing - used to (legitimately) further our foreign policy objectives as and when needed.

    And a load of these tools got hacked. And now they're being used against our own hospitals.

    What happened today was entirely preventable. It's a huge f*ck up.
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    JasonJason Posts: 1,614

    Jason said:

    The government need to get all over this NHS shambles quick sharp, which I expect them to do all weekend. Tricky in the middle of an election campaign, but necessary. Labour will of course blame them for this, but it will be forgotten about by the end of next week. Impact on the GE result - precisely zero.

    Agreed that there will be no impact on the GE result. Doubt there will even be a shift in polling. I am no fan of the tories and I hadn't even considered that the government could be at fault for this until seeing suggestions on this board. Especially considering the global angle. It's a managerial problem in the NHS, not a particular policy related problem, so hard to pin blame on May or see what Corbyn/Labour could/would do differently.
    Yes, I think we all assume the public is as perceptive and as highly tuned to all the events as we are on boards like this. I think there's more than a little bit of wishful thinking from some, including Labour of course, who think this will play well for them and bad for the Tories. Every single thing will be magnified from now until election day, but unless there's a real catastrophe for the Tories, nothing is going to change the result.
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    TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662

    I've just been watching the Newspaper Review on Sky News, which made it plain just what a political hot potato this IT crisis within the NHS really is ...... and it isn't anywhere near to being sorted yet.
    Really and truly how can it NOT have a political dimension?

    I don't think it will have a political impact because, apart from anything else, some parts of the Scottish health service were affected which can't possibly be underfunded by their progressive government. But if it does gain any traction then it may well simply reinforce May's position as 'a leader who will stay calm and take the necessary action'. We will all be told we need strong and stable virus protection!
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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    Off topic - French politics still crazy as ever. The Front National in France appears to be suffering a case of ukipitis - first MLP talks about renaming it as part of a larger movement, which FN loyalists object to. Then Marion Marechal says she is retiring from politics (for now), clearly realising there is no future for her there with her aunt leading the party. She is very popular and a great communicator (her politics are crazier than her aunts, but she's one of their best media performers). She has actually been rebuked by Jean Marie, who basically accused of her of desertion, a potential new falling out in the Le Pen family feud. Her wing of the party, the pinochetiste free market authoritarian wing, are accusing MLP and Philippot of failing because of focusing on euroscepticism, and insisting that plans to quit the euro are dropped. In return, Philipot is threatening to leave the FN if they drop their plans for euroscepticism. The upshot is a hugely divided party, with a coalition of two quite different ideologies only sharing a dislike of islam. I expect them to run a poorly managed and divided campaign for the legislatives, and will underperform significantly in vote share and seat totals.

    On the other side of the spectrum - former Prime Minister Manuel Valls called the PS a dead party, and tried to run for En Marche, only to be rejected by Macron and have to run as an independent now. Imagine if Blair said Labour was dead, tried to join Farron's Lib Dems, only to be rejected by Farron. Valls was prime minister until late last year, and now has no party that wants him, it is a huge fall from grace. He's right though, the socialists are dead - even Hamon is now talking about starting a new left movement, and he is their presidential candidate!

    I think En Marche will win most seats with LR not far behind. No majority though.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,021
    Pong said:

    Jason said:

    The government need to get all over this NHS shambles quick sharp, which I expect them to do all weekend. Tricky in the middle of an election campaign, but necessary. Labour will of course blame them for this, but it will be forgotten about by the end of next week. Impact on the GE result - precisely zero.

    Agreed that there will be no impact on the GE result. Doubt there will even be a shift in polling. I am no fan of the tories and I hadn't even considered that the government could be at fault for this until seeing suggestions on this board. Especially considering the global angle. It's a managerial problem in the NHS, not a particular policy related problem, so hard to pin blame on May or see what Corbyn/Labour could/would do differently.
    It's the GCHQ/NSA angle which is dynamite. Not sure it'll blow up though. Too techy & complicated for the general public / journos / OAP politicians to get their heads around.

    These are hacking tools we've (jointly) spent hundreds of millions of pounds developing - used to (legitimately) further our foreign policy objectives as and when needed.

    And a load of these tools got hacked. And now they're being used against our own hospitals.

    What happened today was entirely preventable. It's a huge f*ck up.
    Especially as one patch is all that was needed!
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited May 2017
    Pong said:

    Jason said:

    The government need to get all over this NHS shambles quick sharp, which I expect them to do all weekend. Tricky in the middle of an election campaign, but necessary. Labour will of course blame them for this, but it will be forgotten about by the end of next week. Impact on the GE result - precisely zero.

    Agreed that there will be no impact on the GE result. Doubt there will even be a shift in polling. I am no fan of the tories and I hadn't even considered that the government could be at fault for this until seeing suggestions on this board. Especially considering the global angle. It's a managerial problem in the NHS, not a particular policy related problem, so hard to pin blame on May or see what Corbyn/Labour could/would do differently.
    It's the GCHQ/NSA angle which is dynamite. Not sure it'll blow up though. Too techy & complicated for the general public / journos / OAP politicians to get their heads around.

    These are hacking tools we've (jointly) spent hundreds of millions of pounds developing - used to (legitimately) further our foreign policy objectives as and when needed.

    And a load of these tools got hacked. And now they're being used against our own hospitals.

    What happened today was entirely preventable. It's a huge f*ck up.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/27/downing-street-amber-rudd-authorities-access-encrypted-messages-whatsapp-terrorism

    If the govt can access your data, blackmailers, fraudsters (and worse) can too.

    That's the govt's policy. To make us less secure.
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    JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    NHS hacked 4 weeks before a GE. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but.....
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,021
    Jason said:

    NHS hacked 4 weeks before a GE. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but.....

    They went after more than the NHS!
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited May 2017
    RobD said:

    Pong said:

    Jason said:

    The government need to get all over this NHS shambles quick sharp, which I expect them to do all weekend. Tricky in the middle of an election campaign, but necessary. Labour will of course blame them for this, but it will be forgotten about by the end of next week. Impact on the GE result - precisely zero.

    Agreed that there will be no impact on the GE result. Doubt there will even be a shift in polling. I am no fan of the tories and I hadn't even considered that the government could be at fault for this until seeing suggestions on this board. Especially considering the global angle. It's a managerial problem in the NHS, not a particular policy related problem, so hard to pin blame on May or see what Corbyn/Labour could/would do differently.
    It's the GCHQ/NSA angle which is dynamite. Not sure it'll blow up though. Too techy & complicated for the general public / journos / OAP politicians to get their heads around.

    These are hacking tools we've (jointly) spent hundreds of millions of pounds developing - used to (legitimately) further our foreign policy objectives as and when needed.

    And a load of these tools got hacked. And now they're being used against our own hospitals.

    What happened today was entirely preventable. It's a huge f*ck up.
    Especially as one patch is all that was needed!
    Yes. A patch that should have been delivered several years ago via windows update, or whatever. GCHQ/NSA chose, instead, to exploit and weaponize it. And the NHS is paying the price.

    I hope nobody dies.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,207
    edited May 2017

    How expensive in terms of GE seats, whether justified or not is today's cyber attack likely to be for the Tories? To a large extent that will depend on just how quickly the problem is sorted out and that no further problems arise.
    My guess is that it will cost the Tories at least 10-20 seats, even if resolved quickly and fairly painlessly and on that basis the 151-200 seat band for Labour at evens now looks attractive, as does, arguably, a buy of total Labour seats spread bet with Sporting at 160 ..... I've taken both bets tonight, but DYOR.

    Do you really think it will swing seats? This is a global attack that has affected every nation, will the government really be blamed by swing voters? One could just as easily suggest it will focus minds on credibility and thus swing seats TO the government. But I doubt it either way, if this is resolved quickly it will be tomorrows fish and chip paper.
    You're right of course in the sense that this was a global attack, but that said it smacks of earth-shattering incompetence taking into account the fact that it could have been avoided by the simple use of a Microsoft "patch" which had been readily available for some time.
    If true, then this is very damning for the Tories and could cost them dearly especially in an area, i.e. the NHS, where they are already not fully trusted. Yes, at least 10-20 seats I would say, maybe more. Hope I'm wrong, but my wallet believes I'm right.
    Are you really saying that the Conservative party has been stopping NHS IT security ?

    Really, your reasoning is bizarre.
    No, I'm simply saying that the .
    You seem to be in a minority of one among PBers discussing this.
    Which is odd because normally there are lots of pb-ers still talking about the failed IT project under Labour, yet suddenly NHS IT is of no interest to them.
    Its not an IT project though is it but rather basic IT security.
    As always, it's more complicated than that but in terms of an electoral price, let's see how it looks in the morning, especially with the foreign dimension, and how the parties respond.
    I can assure you virtually nobody will switch from May to Corbyn because the NHS was hacked, if you think May's government was not tough enough on national security you are certainly not going to vote for Corbyn Labour and given over 90 countries have now been hacked in someway it was not just due to the NHS failure to upgrade
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,021
    edited May 2017
    Pong said:

    RobD said:

    Pong said:

    Jason said:

    The government need to get all over this NHS shambles quick sharp, which I expect them to do all weekend. Tricky in the middle of an election campaign, but necessary. Labour will of course blame them for this, but it will be forgotten about by the end of next week. Impact on the GE result - precisely zero.

    Agreed that there will be no impact on the GE result. Doubt there will even be a shift in polling. I am no fan of the tories and I hadn't even considered that the government could be at fault for this until seeing suggestions on this board. Especially considering the global angle. It's a managerial problem in the NHS, not a particular policy related problem, so hard to pin blame on May or see what Corbyn/Labour could/would do differently.
    It's the GCHQ/NSA angle which is dynamite. Not sure it'll blow up though. Too techy & complicated for the general public / journos / OAP politicians to get their heads around.

    These are hacking tools we've (jointly) spent hundreds of millions of pounds developing - used to (legitimately) further our foreign policy objectives as and when needed.

    And a load of these tools got hacked. And now they're being used against our own hospitals.

    What happened today was entirely preventable. It's a huge f*ck up.
    Especially as one patch is all that was needed!
    Yes. A patch that should have been delivered several years ago via windows update, or whatever. GCHQ/NSA chose, instead, to exploit and weaponize it. And the NHS is paying the price.

    I hope nobody dies.
    Well, it was patched several months ago :p

    Edit: not months, but a month ago.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,207
    Pong said:

    RobD said:

    Pong said:

    Jason said:

    The government need to get all over this NHS shambles quick sharp, which I expect them to do all weekend. Tricky in the middle of an election campaign, but necessary. Labour will of course blame them for this, but it will be forgotten about by the end of next week. Impact on the GE result - precisely zero.

    Agreed that there will be no impact on the GE result. Doubt there will even be a shift in polling. I am no fan of the tories and I hadn't even considered that the government could be at fault for this until seeing suggestions on this board. Especially considering the global angle. It's a managerial problem in the NHS, not a particular policy related problem, so hard to pin blame on May or see what Corbyn/Labour could/would do differently.
    It's the GCHQ/NSA angle which is dynamite. Not sure it'll blow up though. Too techy & complicated for the general public / journos / OAP politicians to get their heads around.

    These are hacking tools we've (jointly) spent hundreds of millions of pounds developing - used to (legitimately) further our foreign policy objectives as and when needed.

    And a load of these tools got hacked. And now they're being used against our own hospitals.

    What happened today was entirely preventable. It's a huge f*ck up.
    Especially as one patch is all that was needed!
    Yes. A patch that should have been delivered several years ago via windows update, or whatever. GCHQ/NSA chose, instead, to exploit and weaponize it. And the NHS is paying the price.

    I hope nobody dies.
    You could also argue had GCHQ not hacked terrorist networks people would have died from more terrorist attacks, so you cannot win either way
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    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Some very high profile and large organisations impacted.
    The ransom demand is ridiculously small
    The actual amounts paid into the bitcoin account so far is very small

    I*ts a very odd hit if you are looking for cash, unless it just happens to be a very random exercise.
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    spire2spire2 Posts: 183
    Nobody in the teresa may echo chanber worried re a story about nhs using out of date computer equipment?
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    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    spire2 said:

    Nobody in the teresa may echo chanber worried re a story about nhs using out of date computer equipment?

    Yeah May is responsible for desktop and server admin for the NHS.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,145
    nunu said:

    When was the last time Jeremy Corbyn actually lost an election?

    Last week:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_local_elections,_2017
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,821
    Y0kel said:

    spire2 said:

    Nobody in the teresa may echo chanber worried re a story about nhs using out of date computer equipment?

    Yeah May is responsible for desktop and server admin for the NHS.
    And FedEx and the Scottish NHS and the Russian Interior Ministry and.....
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,320
    edited May 2017
    HYUFD said:

    I can assure you virtually nobody will switch from May to Corbyn because the NHS was hacked, if you think May's government was not tough enough on national security you are certainly not going to vote for Corbyn Labour and given over 90 countries have now been hacked in someway it was not just due to the NHS failure to upgrade

    Yes - the international aspect is key - and the BBC (both TV and internet) have stressed the international aspect very prominently.
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    nunu said:

    When was the last time Jeremy Corbyn actually lost an election?

    Last week:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_local_elections,_2017
    He's in charge of the national party.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,145

    I've just been watching the Newspaper Review on Sky News, which made it plain just what a political hot potato this IT crisis within the NHS really is ...... and it isn't anywhere near to being sorted yet.
    Really and truly how can it NOT have a political dimension?

    Maybe it will have consequences and maybe it wont.

    And maybe one of those consequences will have a political dimension.

    But the mistake you're making is to assume that will be bad for the government.

    And the likes of Sky News always exaggerate the importance of everything.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,145
    nunu said:

    nunu said:

    When was the last time Jeremy Corbyn actually lost an election?

    Last week:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_local_elections,_2017
    He's in charge of the national party.
    Which lost - take a look at who's photo is on the top right of that wiki page.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,207
    edited May 2017
    MikeL said:

    HYUFD said:

    I can assure you virtually nobody will switch from May to Corbyn because the NHS was hacked, if you think May's government was not tough enough on national security you are certainly not going to vote for Corbyn Labour and given over 90 countries have now been hacked in someway it was not just due to the NHS failure to upgrade

    Yes - the international aspect is key - and the BBC (both TV and internet) have stressed the international aspect very prominently.
    Exactly and now the latest is the German rail network is down because of the hack and countries from Russia to Spain to China have all been hit as well as the UK
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,821
    edited May 2017


    Really and truly how can it NOT have a political dimension?

    Because it might be viewed as a "natural disaster" in the same way that the Rover closure during a GE campaign was? Unless you're arguing that the govt is responsible for FedEx and the Russian Interior Ministry too?
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited May 2017
    Y0kel said:

    Some very high profile and large organisations impacted.
    The ransom demand is ridiculously small
    The actual amounts paid into the bitcoin account so far is very small

    I*ts a very odd hit if you are looking for cash, unless it just happens to be a very random exercise.

    Presumably the ransom demand is deliberately small so people pay it -- it is cheaper to pay £300 or whatever to get your files back than what it will cost in time, let alone consultants and experts. It is the pattern of targets that looks odd.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    MikeL said:

    HYUFD said:

    I can assure you virtually nobody will switch from May to Corbyn because the NHS was hacked, if you think May's government was not tough enough on national security you are certainly not going to vote for Corbyn Labour and given over 90 countries have now been hacked in someway it was not just due to the NHS failure to upgrade

    Yes - the international aspect is key - and the BBC (both TV and internet) have stressed the international aspect very prominently.
    Exactly and now the latest is the German rail network is down because of the hack and countries from Russia to Spain to China have all been hit as well as the UK
    But that also was true of the 2008 financial crash! It did not prevent the Brown Govt being blamed for something over which it had effectively no control.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    edited May 2017

    I've just been watching the Newspaper Review on Sky News, which made it plain just what a political hot potato this IT crisis within the NHS really is ...... and it isn't anywhere near to being sorted yet.
    Really and truly how can it NOT have a political dimension?

    Maybe it will have consequences and maybe it wont.

    And maybe one of those consequences will have a political dimension.

    But the mistake you're making is to assume that will be bad for the government.

    And the likes of Sky News always exaggerate the importance of everything.
    The worst episode I can remember was when Sky were full nuclear on Hague for "dithering" over rescuing oil workers in Libya. Days of coverage of why wasn't he doing anything, all these people could be killed yadda yadda yadda.

    Only a couple of weeks later did we find out that Hague had actually sent the SAS in undercover before the s##t hit the fan, secured critical info at the embassies and they then set out into the desert. Did their usual business of insuring any local difficulties were handled and set up perimeters surrounding the oil facilities upon which the planes were sent in.
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    spire2spire2 Posts: 183
    So basically its a plus for the government?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,207
    edited May 2017
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    MikeL said:

    HYUFD said:

    I can assure you virtually nobody will switch from May to Corbyn because the NHS was hacked, if you think May's government was not tough enough on national security you are certainly not going to vote for Corbyn Labour and given over 90 countries have now been hacked in someway it was not just due to the NHS failure to upgrade

    Yes - the international aspect is key - and the BBC (both TV and internet) have stressed the international aspect very prominently.
    Exactly and now the latest is the German rail network is down because of the hack and countries from Russia to Spain to China have all been hit as well as the UK
    But that also was true of the 2008 financial crash! It did not prevent the Brown Govt being blamed for something over which it had effectively no control.
    The 2008 financial crash saw unemployment rise rapidly and the biggest banking crash since 1929 and its consequences lasted years, this is nothing like the 2008 crash, it will be over in a day or 2 once the systems are up and running again
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,145
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    MikeL said:

    HYUFD said:

    I can assure you virtually nobody will switch from May to Corbyn because the NHS was hacked, if you think May's government was not tough enough on national security you are certainly not going to vote for Corbyn Labour and given over 90 countries have now been hacked in someway it was not just due to the NHS failure to upgrade

    Yes - the international aspect is key - and the BBC (both TV and internet) have stressed the international aspect very prominently.
    Exactly and now the latest is the German rail network is down because of the hack and countries from Russia to Spain to China have all been hit as well as the UK
    But that also was true of the 2008 financial crash! It did not prevent the Brown Govt being blamed for something over which it had effectively no control.
    Brown had bigged himself up as the 'Iron Chancellor', no more boom and bust, financial security etc and we ended up with banks going bankrupt and a massive recession.

    Now if the NHS etc stops working for a few months May's 'strong and stable' imagery would take a beating.

    If.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,821
    spire2 said:

    So basically its a plus for the government?

    On 'national security' who do you think voters are going to gravitate towards - May or Corbyn?

    I doubt it will have much impact either way....
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    edited May 2017

    spire2 said:

    So basically its a plus for the government?

    On 'national security' who do you think voters are going to gravitate towards - May or Corbyn?

    I doubt it will have much impact either way....
    Its a good job that those in the running to be in charge don't want to do away with the likes of MI5....
  • Options
    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    edited May 2017

    Y0kel said:

    Some very high profile and large organisations impacted.
    The ransom demand is ridiculously small
    The actual amounts paid into the bitcoin account so far is very small

    I*ts a very odd hit if you are looking for cash, unless it just happens to be a very random exercise.

    Presumably the ransom demand is deliberately small so people pay it -- it is cheaper to pay £300 or whatever to get your files back than what it will cost in time, let alone consultants and experts. It is the pattern of targets that looks odd.
    Well this is the thing, unless its a truly random spam email borne attack.

    The great irony is that the controller itself is open to a reverse hack. .
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Corbyn actually said???

    A Labour Government would not engage with Isil directly but would support talks with the terror group in Geneva, he said.

    lol- you brainless muppet.

    What exactly do you negotiate about?

  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,821
    Map of global wcrypt infection:

    https://intel.malwaretech.com/botnet/wcrypt
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    edited May 2017
    Floater said:

    Corbyn actually said???

    A Labour Government would not engage with Isil directly but would support talks with the terror group in Geneva, he said.

    lol- you brainless muppet.

    What exactly do you negotiate about?

    We will give you your caliphate and we promise not to bother you? Now brother would you like another cup of tea?
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,320
    edited May 2017
    HYUFD said:

    MikeL said:

    HYUFD said:

    I can assure you virtually nobody will switch from May to Corbyn because the NHS was hacked, if you think May's government was not tough enough on national security you are certainly not going to vote for Corbyn Labour and given over 90 countries have now been hacked in someway it was not just due to the NHS failure to upgrade

    Yes - the international aspect is key - and the BBC (both TV and internet) have stressed the international aspect very prominently.
    Exactly and now the latest is the German rail network is down because of the hack and countries from Russia to Spain to China have all been hit as well as the UK
    I guess that makes me think what if this got far, far worse - say it escalated into a real national emergency affecting things like power stations, telephone network, transport (and NHS) - with literally everything out of action.

    Then it really could have political implications - though even then it might mean people rally to May as the competent leader.

    However, in that situation much would depend on the Government's handling of the crisis and the public's assessment of that.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Y0kel said:

    Some very high profile and large organisations impacted.
    The ransom demand is ridiculously small
    The actual amounts paid into the bitcoin account so far is very small

    I*ts a very odd hit if you are looking for cash, unless it just happens to be a very random exercise.

    Presumably the ransom demand is deliberately small so people pay it -- it is cheaper to pay £300 or whatever to get your files back than what it will cost in time, let alone consultants and experts. It is the pattern of targets that looks odd.
    Because I doubt they were targets.

    My entirely uneducated guess is that this virus has been set to spread as far and wide as possible and only to kick into effect today. Had this virus revealed itself sooner it would have been killed off sooner, sort of like how viruses IRL have evolved to have an incubation period before symptoms reveal.

    I don't believe that the NHS was hacked. I do believe the NHS was left vulnerable and has fallen victim. It is a high profile victim given its nature. But I don't think it was targeted for hacking, it is simply a big scalp that has fallen prey to this virus.
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195


    Really and truly how can it NOT have a political dimension?

    Because it might be viewed as a "natural disaster" in the same way that the Rover closure during a GE campaign was? Unless you're arguing that the govt is responsible for FedEx and the Russian Interior Ministry too?
    and of course Deutsche Bahn also affected (amongst many others).

    If it had been just the NHS, then no matter the facts the government would have been on back foot

    still - no doubt Jezza will sort it out with his extremely competent shadow cabinet.

    oh
  • Options
    spire2spire2 Posts: 183
    I dont think its selling as a national security issue. If airports were shut or banks had gone down then yes but this is going as nhs using out of date equipment and it wont be the local trusts that get the blame
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Floater said:

    Corbyn actually said???

    A Labour Government would not engage with Isil directly but would support talks with the terror group in Geneva, he said.

    lol- you brainless muppet.

    What exactly do you negotiate about?

    We will give you your caliphate and we promise not to bother you? Now brother would you like another cup of tea?
    Of course I know you realise that even that would not be enough for our Islamist enemies
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,207
    MikeL said:

    HYUFD said:

    MikeL said:

    HYUFD said:

    I can assure you virtually nobody will switch from May to Corbyn because the NHS was hacked, if you think May's government was not tough enough on national security you are certainly not going to vote for Corbyn Labour and given over 90 countries have now been hacked in someway it was not just due to the NHS failure to upgrade

    Yes - the international aspect is key - and the BBC (both TV and internet) have stressed the international aspect very prominently.
    Exactly and now the latest is the German rail network is down because of the hack and countries from Russia to Spain to China have all been hit as well as the UK
    I guess that makes me think what if this got far, far worse - say it escalated into a real national emergency affecting things like power stations, telephone network, transport (and NHS) - with literally everything out of action.

    Then it really could have political implications - though even then it might mean people rally to May as the competent leader.

    However, in that situation much would depend on the Government's handling of the crisis and the public's assessment of that.
    I doubt it will last much beyond the weekend, GCHQ etc are already onto it and even if it did the election is in less than a month and in terms of who you want to manage a crisis, Corbyn or May, it is no contest, if Labour had a more competent leader they might be more of a threat but yet again Corbyn will be unable to capitalise, May could simply point out he would probably hold a seminar with the hackers as he wants to do with ISIL!
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    HYUFD said:

    MikeL said:

    HYUFD said:

    MikeL said:

    HYUFD said:

    I can assure you virtually nobody will switch from May to Corbyn because the NHS was hacked, if you think May's government was not tough enough on national security you are certainly not going to vote for Corbyn Labour and given over 90 countries have now been hacked in someway it was not just due to the NHS failure to upgrade

    Yes - the international aspect is key - and the BBC (both TV and internet) have stressed the international aspect very prominently.
    Exactly and now the latest is the German rail network is down because of the hack and countries from Russia to Spain to China have all been hit as well as the UK
    I guess that makes me think what if this got far, far worse - say it escalated into a real national emergency affecting things like power stations, telephone network, transport (and NHS) - with literally everything out of action.

    Then it really could have political implications - though even then it might mean people rally to May as the competent leader.

    However, in that situation much would depend on the Government's handling of the crisis and the public's assessment of that.
    I doubt it will last much beyond the weekend, GCHQ etc are already onto it and even if it did the election is in less than a month and in terms of who you want to manage a crisis, Corbyn or May, it is no contest, if Labour had a more competent leader they might be more of a threat but yet again Corbyn will be unable to capitalise, May could simply point out he would probably hold a seminar with the hackers as he wants to do with ISIL!
    Send in the drones....oh wait the supreme leader has ordered that they all be grounded...
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,207

    HYUFD said:

    MikeL said:

    HYUFD said:

    MikeL said:

    HYUFD said:

    I can assure you virtually nobody will switch from May to Corbyn because the NHS was hacked, if you think May's government was not tough enough on national security you are certainly not going to vote for Corbyn Labour and given over 90 countries have now been hacked in someway it was not just due to the NHS failure to upgrade

    Yes - the international aspect is key - and the BBC (both TV and internet) have stressed the international aspect very prominently.
    Exactly and now the latest is the German rail network is down because of the hack and countries from Russia to Spain to China have all been hit as well as the UK
    I guess that makes me think what if this got far, far worse - say it escalated into a real national emergency affecting things like power stations, telephone network, transport (and NHS) - with literally everything out of action.

    Then it really could have political implications - though even then it might mean people rally to May as the competent leader.

    However, in that situation much would depend on the Government's handling of the crisis and the public's assessment of that.
    I doubt it will last much beyond the weekend, GCHQ etc are already onto it and even if it did the election is in less than a month and in terms of who you want to manage a crisis, Corbyn or May, it is no contest, if Labour had a more competent leader they might be more of a threat but yet again Corbyn will be unable to capitalise, May could simply point out he would probably hold a seminar with the hackers as he wants to do with ISIL!
    Send in the drones....oh wait the supreme leader has ordered that they all be grounded...
    Pretty much, goodnight
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,145
    spire2 said:

    I dont think its selling as a national security issue. If airports were shut or banks had gone down then yes but this is going as nhs using out of date equipment and it wont be the local trusts that get the blame

    You mean you want the government to be blamed.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    MikeL said:

    HYUFD said:

    I can assure you virtually nobody will switch from May to Corbyn because the NHS was hacked, if you think May's government was not tough enough on national security you are certainly not going to vote for Corbyn Labour and given over 90 countries have now been hacked in someway it was not just due to the NHS failure to upgrade

    Yes - the international aspect is key - and the BBC (both TV and internet) have stressed the international aspect very prominently.
    Exactly and now the latest is the German rail network is down because of the hack and countries from Russia to Spain to China have all been hit as well as the UK
    But that also was true of the 2008 financial crash! It did not prevent the Brown Govt being blamed for something over which it had effectively no control.
    The 2008 financial crash saw unemployment rise rapidly and the biggest banking crash since 1929 and its consequences lasted years, this is nothing like the 2008 crash, it will be over in a day or 2 once the systems are up and running again
    But it was still largely the consequence of a Black Swan event in the USA!
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,320
    edited May 2017
    Maybe already posted but a bit of context (per BBC):

    40 NHS "bodies" are affected.

    There are a total of 200 NHS "bodies" in England.

    So, at least on the face of it, 80% of the NHS is totally unaffected.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    MikeL said:

    HYUFD said:

    I can assure you virtually nobody will switch from May to Corbyn because the NHS was hacked, if you think May's government was not tough enough on national security you are certainly not going to vote for Corbyn Labour and given over 90 countries have now been hacked in someway it was not just due to the NHS failure to upgrade

    Yes - the international aspect is key - and the BBC (both TV and internet) have stressed the international aspect very prominently.
    Exactly and now the latest is the German rail network is down because of the hack and countries from Russia to Spain to China have all been hit as well as the UK
    But that also was true of the 2008 financial crash! It did not prevent the Brown Govt being blamed for something over which it had effectively no control.
    The 2008 financial crash saw unemployment rise rapidly and the biggest banking crash since 1929 and its consequences lasted years, this is nothing like the 2008 crash, it will be over in a day or 2 once the systems are up and running again
    But it was still largely the consequence of a Black Swan event in the USA!
    And initially Brown's ratings improved as a "cling onto nurse"/"no time for a novice" effect kicked in. It was only after things continued to collapse that he suffered.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,058
    Latest ElectoralCalculus puts Tories on 413 seats and 48.6%:

    http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html
  • Options
    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited May 2017
    MikeL said:

    Maybe already posted but a bit of context (per BBC):

    40 NHS "bodies" are affected.

    There are a total of 200 NHS "bodies" in England.

    So, at least on the face of it, 80% of the NHS is totally unaffected.

    Yet.

    "The malware contains a hardcoded “kill switch” that the creator could choose to implement if he or she wanted. This involved a very long nonsensical domain name that the malware makes a request to – just as if it was looking up any website – and if the request comes back and shows that the domain is live, the kill switch takes effect and the malware stops spreading. Of course, this relies on the creator of the malware registering the specific domain. In this case, the creator failed to do this. And @malwaretechblog did early this morning (Pacific Time), stopping the rapid proliferation of the ransomware."

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/live/2017/may/12/england-hospitals-cyber-attack-nhs-live-updates

    Which indicates a lazy hack.

    But these tools are out in the open now, so unpatched pc's are going to get hit hard.
  • Options
    CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    edited May 2017
    Which companies might get contracts to deal with the hacker damage to NHS computer systems and to defend against similar attacks in future? That's not a rhetorical question. It looks as though there will be a fast-expanding state demand. The CPNI on its website just says it works in partnership with the private sector. They don't name any companies. G4S? BT?
  • Options
    MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 755
    They should stick medical records on a blockchain. Then it can't be got at.

    Ten years from now they will.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,021
    New thread folks :)
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,086
    spire2 said:

    Nobody in the teresa may echo chanber worried re a story about nhs using out of date computer equipment?

    This place is full of people who dislike May, certainly it's closer to even on that than it is on the left right split, which somewhat undermines your implicit assumption it is something may should be worried about.

    It's technical, full of reliance on human error and complexity, not exactly ripe for simple 'it's der government' thinking.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,086
    Floater said:

    Corbyn actually said???

    A Labour Government would not engage with Isil directly but would support talks with the terror group in Geneva, he said.

    lol- you brainless muppet.

    What exactly do you negotiate about?

    He has previously said the leader of Isis 'not being around' would be a good thing for a long term peaceful settlement, I'm not sure how that would work if he also said the above.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,145
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    MikeL said:

    HYUFD said:

    I can assure you virtually nobody will switch from May to Corbyn because the NHS was hacked, if you think May's government was not tough enough on national security you are certainly not going to vote for Corbyn Labour and given over 90 countries have now been hacked in someway it was not just due to the NHS failure to upgrade

    Yes - the international aspect is key - and the BBC (both TV and internet) have stressed the international aspect very prominently.
    Exactly and now the latest is the German rail network is down because of the hack and countries from Russia to Spain to China have all been hit as well as the UK
    But that also was true of the 2008 financial crash! It did not prevent the Brown Govt being blamed for something over which it had effectively no control.
    The 2008 financial crash saw unemployment rise rapidly and the biggest banking crash since 1929 and its consequences lasted years, this is nothing like the 2008 crash, it will be over in a day or 2 once the systems are up and running again
    But it was still largely the consequence of a Black Swan event in the USA!
    Northern Rock were based in Newcastle not the USA and overconsumption and unsustainable house prices are not black swans.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    MikeL said:

    HYUFD said:

    I can assure you virtually nobody will switch from May to Corbyn because the NHS was hacked, if you think May's government was not tough enough on national security you are certainly not going to vote for Corbyn Labour and given over 90 countries have now been hacked in someway it was not just due to the NHS failure to upgrade

    Yes - the international aspect is key - and the BBC (both TV and internet) have stressed the international aspect very prominently.
    Exactly and now the latest is the German rail network is down because of the hack and countries from Russia to Spain to China have all been hit as well as the UK
    But that also was true of the 2008 financial crash! It did not prevent the Brown Govt being blamed for something over which it had effectively no control.
    The 2008 financial crash saw unemployment rise rapidly and the biggest banking crash since 1929 and its consequences lasted years, this is nothing like the 2008 crash, it will be over in a day or 2 once the systems are up and running again
    But it was still largely the consequence of a Black Swan event in the USA!
    Northern Rock were based in Newcastle not the USA and overconsumption and unsustainable house prices are not black swans.
    That was in Autumn 2007 - a year before the main crisis hit the international economy. Ad mittedly it may have been a warning sign of what was to come - but was not the main event .
  • Options
    NeilVWNeilVW Posts: 725
    edited May 2017
    Alistair said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/2017_GE_Survey-Final-tables.pdf

    Page 15 tables. Utterly shocking for Labour. Behind in the North East ffsake !

    SNP at 36% too if I'm reading it right. vs Blues 27%.
    Not excluding don't knows etc.
    thanks. but if Blues can get 75% of SNP that's impressive.
    Which party did you vote for in the general election in May 2015?

    SNP 40%
    Con 20%


    Actual reality

    SNP 50%
    Con 15%
    When you exclude Did Not Vote and refusers, Ashcroft's respondents answered 47% SNP, 23% Con for their 2015 vote. I wondered if people were remembering their constituency vote at Holyrood 2016 (very close to those figures), but it seems like a Con-heavy sample overall: the recall across GB was 41% Con (v 38% actual), 29% Lab (31%), 12% UKIP (13%), 9% LD (8%).

    And the published data are not weighted at all - GB respondents were 56% female, for instance. Interestingly, 52% of the GB sample recalls voting Remain in 2016.
This discussion has been closed.