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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The geography of Emmanuel Macron’s first round victory

SystemSystem Posts: 11,723
edited April 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The geography of Emmanuel Macron’s first round victory

As it has turned out the polling in the French presidential election has proved to be pretty accurate. Macron has, as I write, 23.9% of the first round votes with Le Pen on 21.4%.

Read the full story here


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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,855
    First! Like Hollande Macron
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,022
    Not sure Nate Silver can pontificate on British polling given his utter disaster in 2010 :smiley:
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,855
    Also the polling does not seem wildly out of line with the BES......
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,855
    Is this the 'Rape' issue the SNP are complaining about?

    An independent watchdog has strongly criticised the treatment by the NHS and police of victims of sexual assault.

    The inspector of constabulary (HMICS) said services offered to some victims were "unacceptable."

    The review said they lagged behind the rest of the UK, with many victims being examined in police stations.

    The Scottish government said it was establishing a group to improve the responses to victims of rape or sexual assault.


    'establishing a group'.......well, that's ok then. Meanwhile, back to the child benefit question which the SNP could do something about (if its so evil) but has chosen to complain about Westminster instead.....

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-39436647
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,855

    Also the polling does not seem wildly out of line with the BES......

    Warning signs for Labour
    Data from the British Election Study suggest Conservatives are piling up votes in Labour-held seats.....

    .....There are, however, clear warning signs for Labour that the party may under-perform in seats its current miserable levels in (reported) vote share.


    https://medium.com/@chrishanretty/warning-signs-for-labour-50b6cd1501d8
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,855
    Round up of European Press coverage:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/24/equation-two-unknowns-newspapers-reacted-tomacron-le-pen-wins/

    The Swiss have the best headline Une équation à deux inconnues
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,022
    Hmmm somehow I also missed the recent YouGov that also had the Tories on 48% :o
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    Twitter
    Julia Hartley-Brewer‏Verified account @JuliaHB1
    French politicians end speeches with "Long live the Republic, long live France". Yanks do "God bless America". What is the Brit equivalent?

    (((StephenDaisley)))‏Verified account @JournoStephen 7h7 hours ago
    (((StephenDaisley))) Retweeted Julia Hartley-Brewer
    "Anyone other than Michael Crick have a question...?"
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,939
    edited April 2017
    All those who support the European project and reject the ugly and divisive right wing politics of Trump and Farage should be delighted with this result. Following Geert Wilders obliteration in Holland this period will hopefully be seen as nothing more than an uncomfortable blip in the history of Western democracy.

    The fact that during this blip we made the catastrophic decision to cast ourselves out from the most attractive and politically advanced institution in the world is a catastrophy but one that can hopefully be reversed soetime in the future
  • Options
    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    Twitter
    (((StephenDaisley)))‏Verified account @JournoStephen Apr 23
    Replying to @JournoStephen
    Third, the SNP attack machine makes the GOP look like Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm. @RuthDavidsonMSP is in for six weeks of sheer ugliness. 4/

    (((StephenDaisley)))‏Verified account @JournoStephen Apr 23
    Replying to @JournoStephen @RuthDavidsonMSP
    Finally, though, @RuthDavidsonMSP 2017 isn't @RuthDavidsonMSP 2011. The Nats have an actual fight on their hands. Let battle be joined. 5/5

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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,022
    edited April 2017
    Don't hold your breath, @Roger :smiley:
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I see after all the hysteria that the French polling was very accurate and the French vote sampling was very accurate.

    The betting markets were not.

    It seems that for the while it will be profitable not to follow the money.
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    edited April 2017
    Roger said:

    All those who support the European project and reject the ugly and divisive right wing politics of Trump and Farage and co should be delighted with this result. Following Geert Wilders obliteration in Holland this period will hopefully be seen as nothing more than an uncomfortable blip in the history of Western democracy.

    The fact that during this blip we made the catastrophic decision to cast ourselves out from the most attractive and politically advanced institution in the world is a catastrophy that can hopefully be reversed in the not too distant future

    Roger, like you, I was a remain voter and I was gutted at the result. But thanks to the SNP in Scotland trying to use my Remain vote in the EU Ref as an excuse to ignore my No vote in the 2014 Indy Ref and call another Indy Ref. I now find that it has actually strengthened my view that the Brexit result should be respected, and the issue is now all about deciding which party will fight the hardest to get the best Brexit deal.

    The SNP attempt to try to piggyback another Indy Referendum on the back of the Brexit result has backfired in Scotland, and it might yet see the Libdems in Scotland struggle to be seen as a clear alternative to the SNP on Independence while the UK wide party campaigns for another EU Referendum in the hope of overturning the original result.
  • Options
    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,022
    fitalass said:
    Coalition of chaos might not be that far fetched!
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    MJWMJW Posts: 1,400
    RobD said:

    fitalass said:
    Coalition of chaos might not be that far fetched!
    I don't think anyone doubts the chaos, it's the idea he could win enough seats to form a coalition they find far fetched.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,939
    fitalass said:

    Roger said:

    All those who support the European project and reject the ugly and divisive right wing politics of Trump and Farage and co should be delighted with this result. Following Geert Wilders obliteration in Holland this period will hopefully be seen as nothing more than an uncomfortable blip in the history of Western democracy.

    The fact that during this blip we made the catastrophic decision to cast ourselves out from the most attractive and politically advanced institution in the world is a catastrophy that can hopefully be reversed in the not too distant future

    Roger, like you, I was a remain voter and I was gutted at the result. But thanks to the SNP in Scotland trying to use my Remain vote in the EU Ref as an excuse to ignore my No vote in the 2014 Indy Ref and call another Indy Ref. I now find that it has actually strengthened my view that the Brexit result should be respected, and the issue is now all about deciding which party will fight the hardest to get the best Brexit deal.

    The SNP attempt to try to piggyback another Indy Referendum on the back of the Brexit result has backfired in Scotland, and it might yet see the Libdems in Scotland struggle to be seen as a clear alternative to the SNP on Independence while the UK wide party campaigns for another EU Referendum in the hope of overturning the original result.
    As you say the Scots have two choices neither of which they voted for. Europe without the UK or the UK without Europe. The only way I can see round these two incompatible choices is to allow another referendum. Trusting a Tory government to get the best deal might sound like making the best of a bad job but I doubt many non Tory Remainers would see it like that.
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    JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    edited April 2017
    kle4 said:

    Balrog said:

    So how does one judge success. Total profit/loss on an election, % profit compared to exposure, ROI taking into account duration money tied up for?

    As a very casual gambler, I count it a success merely if my winnings exceed my losses - this meant despite getting almost everything wrong in 2015 I ended up Green because I had a bet of £20 for every UKIP MP above/under 5 with JohnnyJimmy, which won me £80!

    2017 so far has the most individual bets I've ever placed, quite a few constituency bets, so I'd like to get at least half right.
    @kle4 our only bet was my £20 @ 7/4 on Tories over 300 seats. Not sure who you had the ukip bet with..
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,939
    fitalass said:
    I wonder what it must feel like leading a party into a General Election knowing you personally are responsible for the looming disasterous result and being the cause of so many devoted people losing their jobs?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,855
    fitalass said:

    Roger said:

    All those who support the European project and reject the ugly and divisive right wing politics of Trump and Farage and co should be delighted with this result. Following Geert Wilders obliteration in Holland this period will hopefully be seen as nothing more than an uncomfortable blip in the history of Western democracy.

    The fact that during this blip we made the catastrophic decision to cast ourselves out from the most attractive and politically advanced institution in the world is a catastrophy that can hopefully be reversed in the not too distant future

    The SNP attempt to try to piggyback another Indy Referendum on the back of the Brexit result has backfired in Scotland,
    In one of yesterday's polls (lost track of which) in the Scottish subsample 66% of Scots thought there had been too many referendums - about double the level in England......
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,486
    MJW said:

    RobD said:

    fitalass said:
    Coalition of chaos might not be that far fetched!
    I don't think anyone doubts the chaos, it's the idea he could win enough seats to form a coalition they find far fetched.
    Back in 2001 Labour photoshopped William Hague with Thatcher's hair to warn of the dangers, as they saw it, of a Hague win. Almost nobody believed that was a likely outcome either.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Bonjour PBers ....

    One interesting little snippet from the POTFR election by our old friends in the Auld Aliiance, is that despite all the terrorist attacks in Paris over the past few years, Len Pen polled under 5% of the vote in the French capital.
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Roger said:

    fitalass said:
    I wonder what it must feel like leading a party into a General Election knowing you personally are responsible for the looming disasterous result and being the cause of so many devoted people losing their jobs?
    That would depend on the person, of course. Corbyn and the rest of his faction endured decades of crushing, banging their heads against a brick wall, defeat before unexpectedly winning the 2015 leadership election. Losing has been a way of life for them.

    I'm not sure whether or not they would be that bothered by the mass rejection off their fellow MPs. I'm almost certain that they won't be that bothered about ruinous defeat at the polls. Far more concerned about establishing permanent ascendancy in the Labour Party and turning it into a lobby group for their ideas, I would've thought.

    And now, an anecdote for the day:

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/856103679157514240

    Reminder: the Labour Party now has 44 days left to convince the voters of England and Wales that a Far Left minority Government, led by Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott and Thornberry, and propped up by the votes of Scottish Nationalists, is something to be celebrated.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Roger said:

    I wonder what it must feel like leading a party into a General Election knowing you personally are responsible for the looming disasterous result and being the cause of so many devoted people losing their jobs?

    How very dare you.

    I'm not too sure how many staff the Dear Leader Nuttall employs and you lack of faith in the Duke of Stoke's ability to win all 650 seats will surely ensure your appointment with an artillery piece is not long in the offing ....
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,855
    Roger said:

    the most attractive and politically advanced institution in the world

    Perhaps is a view not universally shared......
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,221
    JackW said:

    Bonjour PBers ....

    One interesting little snippet from the POTFR election by our old friends in the Auld Aliiance, is that despite all the terrorist attacks in Paris over the past few years, Len Pen polled under 5% of the vote in the French capital.

    And 25.3% in Nice.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,221
    Will OGH be piling on Macron at 1/8?
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    ToryJim said:

    Back in 2001 Labour photoshopped William Hague with Thatcher's hair to warn of the dangers, as they saw it, of a Hague win. Almost nobody believed that was a likely outcome either.

    Of course nobody believed it .... Hague was bald ....
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    tlg86 said:

    Will OGH be piling on Macron at 1/8?

    Not a bad return in 2 weeks though.
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    notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Roger said:

    All those who support the European project and reject the ugly and divisive right wing politics of Trump and Farage should be delighted with this result. Following Geert Wilders obliteration in Holland this period will hopefully be seen as nothing more than an uncomfortable blip in the history of Western democracy.

    The fact that during this blip we made the catastrophic decision to cast ourselves out from the most attractive and politically advanced institution in the world is a catastrophy but one that can hopefully be reversed soetime in the future

    Didn't geert Wilders increase his number of seats from 15 to 20? Odd definition of obliteration.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,157
    tlg86 said:

    Will OGH be piling on Macron at 1/8?

    If you buy thegruGQ's reasoning there should be an oppo dump coming soon, maybe better to wait a bit and pile on after that.
    https://medium.com/@thegrugq/dont-info-op-until-you-see-the-whites-of-their-eyes-55624258f120
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    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,022
    fitalass said:

    Twitter
    Julia Hartley-Brewer‏Verified account @JuliaHB1
    French politicians end speeches with "Long live the Republic, long live France". Yanks do "God bless America". What is the Brit equivalent?

    Would anyone like a cup of tea?

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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,221
    JackW said:

    tlg86 said:

    Will OGH be piling on Macron at 1/8?

    Not a bad return in 2 weeks though.
    Well quite, we should all pile on if it's such a dead cert.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,913

    fitalass said:

    Twitter
    Julia Hartley-Brewer‏Verified account @JuliaHB1
    French politicians end speeches with "Long live the Republic, long live France". Yanks do "God bless America". What is the Brit equivalent?

    Would anyone like a cup of tea?

    God save the Queen or that's just not Cricket.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    So today is Welsh polling day. Let's hope it lives up to the hype.
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    timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    Jonathan said:

    fitalass said:

    Twitter
    Julia Hartley-Brewer‏Verified account @JuliaHB1
    French politicians end speeches with "Long live the Republic, long live France". Yanks do "God bless America". What is the Brit equivalent?

    Would anyone like a cup of tea?

    God save the Queen or that's just not Cricket.
    And now the weather forecast...
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    tlg86 said:

    JackW said:

    tlg86 said:

    Will OGH be piling on Macron at 1/8?

    Not a bad return in 2 weeks though.
    Well quite, we should all pile on if it's such a dead cert.
    1/8 are very decent odds on a candidate who is 20% or more ahead with two weeks to go.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    tlg86 said:

    JackW said:

    tlg86 said:

    Will OGH be piling on Macron at 1/8?

    Not a bad return in 2 weeks though.
    Well quite, we should all pile on if it's such a dead cert.
    It's difficult to envisage circumstances where Le Pen might overcome a 20+ point margin, given that the French polling is gold standard. Certainly the Paris terrorist attack had no polling impact overall.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I'd be interested to know why so many of our regular posters are mournful that France looks set to pick a moderate centrist president who isn't fascist or batshit mental.
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,486

    I'd be interested to know why so many of our regular posters are mournful that France looks set to pick a moderate centrist president who isn't fascist or batshit mental.

    Probably not the moderate centrism that's concerning but the lack of experience and largely blank canvass. Things could go wrong very quickly.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,190
    Roger said:

    All those who support the European project and reject the ugly and divisive right wing politics of Trump and Farage should be delighted with this result. Following Geert Wilders obliteration in Holland this period will hopefully be seen as nothing more than an uncomfortable blip in the history of Western democracy.

    The fact that during this blip we made the catastrophic decision to cast ourselves out from the most attractive and politically advanced institution in the world is a catastrophy but one that can hopefully be reversed soetime in the future

    You forget "hideously undemocratic" in your hagiography of the EU, Roger....
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,280
    ToryJim said:

    I'd be interested to know why so many of our regular posters are mournful that France looks set to pick a moderate centrist president who isn't fascist or batshit mental.

    Probably not the moderate centrism that's concerning but the lack of experience and largely blank canvass. Things could go wrong very quickly.
    Wrong for France or wrong for Brexit?
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    ToryJim said:

    I'd be interested to know why so many of our regular posters are mournful that France looks set to pick a moderate centrist president who isn't fascist or batshit mental.

    Probably not the moderate centrism that's concerning but the lack of experience and largely blank canvass. Things could go wrong very quickly.
    Oh I'm not particularly expecting him to be a good president. The disappointment on Ms Le Pen's behalf in some quarters, however, is palpable.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,221

    I'd be interested to know why so many of our regular posters are mournful that France looks set to pick a moderate centrist president who isn't fascist or batshit mental.

    I'll be honest, a final two of Le Pen - Melenchon would have been funny just to see the reaction this morning. But if Macron does go on to win then it will be interesting to see how he gets on, especially if he doesn't win a majority in their parliament.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    I'd be interested to know why so many of our regular posters are mournful that France looks set to pick a moderate centrist president who isn't fascist or batshit mental.

    Fillon is "batshit mental" ?

    A bit strong perhaps but how the French conservatives managed to lose this election is certainly a wonder to behold .... :smile:





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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,543

    I'd be interested to know why so many of our regular posters are mournful that France looks set to pick a moderate centrist president who isn't fascist or batshit mental.

    Because after Orban, Juncker, Verhofstadt, Renzi and Tsipras they assumed that all European leaders are Fascists and/or batshit crazy, and have bet accordingly?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,190
    fitalass said:

    Twitter
    Julia Hartley-Brewer‏Verified account @JuliaHB1
    French politicians end speeches with "Long live the Republic, long live France". Yanks do "God bless America". What is the Brit equivalent?

    Mustn't grumble.....

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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,217
    JackW said:

    I'd be interested to know why so many of our regular posters are mournful that France looks set to pick a moderate centrist president who isn't fascist or batshit mental.

    Fillon is "batshit mental" ?

    A bit strong perhaps but how the French conservatives managed to lose this election is certainly a wonder to behold .... :smile:
    If that's a wonder, then surely Corbyn's ability to lose the general election requires a grander superlative?
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Freggles said:
    Kelvin MacKenzie probably thinks she's Ross Barkley's girlfriend.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,028
    ToryJim said:

    I'd be interested to know why so many of our regular posters are mournful that France looks set to pick a moderate centrist president who isn't fascist or batshit mental.

    Probably not the moderate centrism that's concerning but the lack of experience and largely blank canvass. Things could go wrong very quickly.
    Theresa May has a lot of experience and is chock full of ideas though...
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,578
    Jonathan said:

    fitalass said:

    Twitter
    Julia Hartley-Brewer‏Verified account @JuliaHB1
    French politicians end speeches with "Long live the Republic, long live France". Yanks do "God bless America". What is the Brit equivalent?

    Would anyone like a cup of tea?

    God save the Queen or that's just not Cricket.
    Yes, it is a remarkably ignorant question by JHB even by her own invariably low standards. The British state has always personified itself through the character of its monarch and the answer is so obviously the former that we can only marvel at her idiocy.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,855

    I'd be interested to know why so many of our regular posters are mournful that France looks set to pick a moderate centrist president who isn't fascist or batshit mental.

    Which posters?

    Aside from a few enthusiasts the consensus appears to be 'least worst option'
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    I'd be interested to know why so many of our regular posters are mournful that France looks set to pick a moderate centrist president who isn't fascist or batshit mental.

    Fillon is "batshit mental" ?

    A bit strong perhaps but how the French conservatives managed to lose this election is certainly a wonder to behold .... :smile:
    If that's a wonder, then surely Corbyn's ability to lose the general election requires a grander superlative?
    Nuttallesque.
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    tlg86 said:

    I'd be interested to know why so many of our regular posters are mournful that France looks set to pick a moderate centrist president who isn't fascist or batshit mental.

    I'll be honest, a final two of Le Pen - Melenchon would have been funny just to see the reaction this morning. But if Macron does go on to win then it will be interesting to see how he gets on, especially if he doesn't win a majority in their parliament.
    My instinct is that Fillon would have been better than Macron, all else being equal, but I'm just glad that it isn't Melenchon v Le Pen, two candidates who think that the problem with France is that it's too business-friendly.

    Now, as long as Le Pen doesn't win, this will be my best ever betting result.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited April 2017
    Freggles said:
    There was plenty of comment yesterday.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,519

    tlg86 said:

    JackW said:

    tlg86 said:

    Will OGH be piling on Macron at 1/8?

    Not a bad return in 2 weeks though.
    Well quite, we should all pile on if it's such a dead cert.
    1/8 are very decent odds on a candidate who is 20% or more ahead with two weeks to go.
    Yep the £50 I didn't manage to get on at 20/1 for the Tories to be over 9.5 in Scotland (now down to 6/1) may as well do a little work for the next 2 weeks.
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    Roger said:

    fitalass said:
    I wonder what it must feel like leading a party into a General Election knowing you personally are responsible for the looming disasterous result and being the cause of so many devoted people losing their jobs?
    That would depend on the person, of course. Corbyn and the rest of his faction endured decades of crushing, banging their heads against a brick wall, defeat before unexpectedly winning the 2015 leadership election. Losing has been a way of life for them.

    I'm not sure whether or not they would be that bothered by the mass rejection off their fellow MPs. I'm almost certain that they won't be that bothered about ruinous defeat at the polls. Far more concerned about establishing permanent ascendancy in the Labour Party and turning it into a lobby group for their ideas, I would've thought.

    And now, an anecdote for the day:

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/856103679157514240

    Reminder: the Labour Party now has 44 days left to convince the voters of England and Wales that a Far Left minority Government, led by Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott and Thornberry, and propped up by the votes of Scottish Nationalists, is something to be celebrated.
    As in 2015 its not our policies that are the issue, its the personality. Remember that Ed was dubbed Communist for suggesting energy price caps. I suspect noone will brand May Communist for adopting the same policy.

    Still, my CLP Exec met last night and mapped out our campaign. Our rebuttal to the Corbyn issue on the doorstep when raised is simple.

    "Jeremy will not become Prime Minister because we aren't going to win this election. But we need as many Labour MPs as we can to provide robust opposition under a new leader so that Theresa May doesn't have a blank cheque to do whatever she likes to you". Remove Jezbollah from contention and we may have a chance...
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,855

    ToryJim said:

    I'd be interested to know why so many of our regular posters are mournful that France looks set to pick a moderate centrist president who isn't fascist or batshit mental.

    Probably not the moderate centrism that's concerning but the lack of experience and largely blank canvass. Things could go wrong very quickly.
    Wrong for France or wrong for Brexit?
    France first, then Brexit. It is in our national interest to have a stable France - and continuity Hollande Macron was probably the least worst option - though how he fares in Parliament we have yet to see....
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,028
    I reckon Macron will be able to get more resolved than Fillon might simply because he is nominally from the left and so De facto carries more than just LR would have done.
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    JackW said:

    Bonjour PBers ....

    One interesting little snippet from the POTFR election by our old friends in the Auld Aliiance, is that despite all the terrorist attacks in Paris over the past few years, Len Pen polled under 5% of the vote in the French capital.

    These days the Parisian population is mainly composed of three categories: traditional conservative upper class in the west of the city, wealthy bobos in the centre, immigrants in the east. The Le Pen-voting population (working class and lower middle class whites) is pretty non-existent within the city itself.
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    Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060

    Roger said:

    fitalass said:
    I wonder what it must feel like leading a party into a General Election knowing you personally are responsible for the looming disasterous result and being the cause of so many devoted people losing their jobs?
    That would depend on the person, of course. Corbyn and the rest of his faction endured decades of crushing, banging their heads against a brick wall, defeat before unexpectedly winning the 2015 leadership election. Losing has been a way of life for them.

    I'm not sure whether or not they would be that bothered by the mass rejection off their fellow MPs. I'm almost certain that they won't be that bothered about ruinous defeat at the polls. Far more concerned about establishing permanent ascendancy in the Labour Party and turning it into a lobby group for their ideas, I would've thought.

    And now, an anecdote for the day:

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/856103679157514240

    Reminder: the Labour Party now has 44 days left to convince the voters of England and Wales that a Far Left minority Government, led by Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott and Thornberry, and propped up by the votes of Scottish Nationalists, is something to be celebrated.
    As in 2015 its not our policies that are the issue, its the personality. Remember that Ed was dubbed Communist for suggesting energy price caps. I suspect noone will brand May Communist for adopting the same policy.

    Still, my CLP Exec met last night and mapped out our campaign. Our rebuttal to the Corbyn issue on the doorstep when raised is simple.

    "Jeremy will not become Prime Minister because we aren't going to win this election. But we need as many Labour MPs as we can to provide robust opposition under a new leader so that Theresa May doesn't have a blank cheque to do whatever she likes to you". Remove Jezbollah from contention and we may have a chance...
    Doesn't that run the risk that Corbyn won't stand down after the election if he doesn't lose by as many seats as expected?
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,217

    Roger said:

    fitalass said:
    I wonder what it must feel like leading a party into a General Election knowing you personally are responsible for the looming disasterous result and being the cause of so many devoted people losing their jobs?
    That would depend on the person, of course. Corbyn and the rest of his faction endured decades of crushing, banging their heads against a brick wall, defeat before unexpectedly winning the 2015 leadership election. Losing has been a way of life for them.

    I'm not sure whether or not they would be that bothered by the mass rejection off their fellow MPs. I'm almost certain that they won't be that bothered about ruinous defeat at the polls. Far more concerned about establishing permanent ascendancy in the Labour Party and turning it into a lobby group for their ideas, I would've thought.

    And now, an anecdote for the day:

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/856103679157514240

    Reminder: the Labour Party now has 44 days left to convince the voters of England and Wales that a Far Left minority Government, led by Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott and Thornberry, and propped up by the votes of Scottish Nationalists, is something to be celebrated.
    As in 2015 its not our policies that are the issue, its the personality. Remember that Ed was dubbed Communist for suggesting energy price caps. I suspect noone will brand May Communist for adopting the same policy.

    Still, my CLP Exec met last night and mapped out our campaign. Our rebuttal to the Corbyn issue on the doorstep when raised is simple.

    "Jeremy will not become Prime Minister because we aren't going to win this election. But we need as many Labour MPs as we can to provide robust opposition under a new leader so that Theresa May doesn't have a blank cheque to do whatever she likes to you". Remove Jezbollah from contention and we may have a chance...
    That's a reasonable line. Except you cannot guarantee:

    1) Jezza will go.
    2) That if he does that the replacement won't be as bad, or worse.
    3) That Labour is capable of a 'robust opposition'.

    You're going to be losing many MPs in a few weeks. Some of these will be dross of the kind all parties have, although some will have been the party's future. Worse, there will be good candidates facing the electorate for the first time who won't enter parliament.

    I don't think a post-ge Labour party will be any good at 'robust opposition', except to itself.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,543
    edited April 2017

    As in 2015 its not our policies that are the issue, its the personality. Remember that Ed was dubbed Communist for suggesting energy price caps. I suspect noone will brand May Communist for adopting the same policy.

    Still, my CLP Exec met last night and mapped out our campaign. Our rebuttal to the Corbyn issue on the doorstep when raised is simple.

    "Jeremy will not become Prime Minister because we aren't going to win this election. But we need as many Labour MPs as we can to provide robust opposition under a new leader so that Theresa May doesn't have a blank cheque to do whatever she likes to you". Remove Jezbollah from contention and we may have a chance...

    It is still a stupid policy though. Breaking up the energy company cartels would be more effective.

    On your second point, while the Jezziah will undoubtedly magnify the scale of your defeat, given the significant problems Labour faces - zero economic credibility, acute shortage of political talent, lack of funds, a withering demographic base, a trade union movement in apparently terminal decline - I am not quite sure why you think any alternative would do better just by not being him?

    I don't think Labour are doomed, but one of the big problems with Corbyn and to a lesser extent Miliband was that the leadership's ineptitude allows people to blame them for the disaster, rather than taking a long hard look at Labour's situation and trying to correct it. Much the problem the Tories had under Hague and IDS, indeed.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    ToryJim said:

    I'd be interested to know why so many of our regular posters are mournful that France looks set to pick a moderate centrist president who isn't fascist or batshit mental.

    Probably not the moderate centrism that's concerning but the lack of experience and largely blank canvass. Things could go wrong very quickly.
    Oh I'm not particularly expecting him to be a good president. The disappointment on Ms Le Pen's behalf in some quarters, however, is palpable.
    It is indeed. It is almost as if tbey are frothing europhobes.

    An interesting triple up on Skybet requestabet : Con 400-450, Lab 100-150, LD 10-19 at 12/1. Sounds about right to me.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013

    I'd be interested to know why so many of our regular posters are mournful that France looks set to pick a moderate centrist president who isn't fascist or batshit mental.

    Lost profits?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,855
    Forget Brexit. Can May finally win over the working class?
    Matthew d'Ancona


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/24/brexit-may-working-class-election?CMP=twt_gu
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    Roger said:

    fitalass said:
    I wonder what it must feel like leading a party into a General Election knowing you personally are responsible for the looming disasterous result and being the cause of so many devoted people losing their jobs?
    That would depend on the person, of course. Corbyn and the rest of his faction endured decades of crushing, banging their heads against a brick wall, defeat before unexpectedly winning the 2015 leadership election. Losing has been a way of life for them.

    I'm not sure whether or not they would be that bothered by the mass rejection off their fellow MPs. I'm almost certain that they won't be that bothered about ruinous defeat at the polls. Far more concerned about establishing permanent ascendancy in the Labour Party and turning it into a lobby group for their ideas, I would've thought.

    And now, an anecdote for the day:

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/856103679157514240

    Reminder: the Labour Party now has 44 days left to convince the voters of England and Wales that a Far Left minority Government, led by Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott and Thornberry, and propped up by the votes of Scottish Nationalists, is something to be celebrated.
    As in 2015 its not our policies that are the issue, its the personality. Remember that Ed was dubbed Communist for suggesting energy price caps. I suspect noone will brand May Communist for adopting the same policy.

    Still, my CLP Exec met last night and mapped out our campaign. Our rebuttal to the Corbyn issue on the doorstep when raised is simple.

    "Jeremy will not become Prime Minister because we aren't going to win this election. But we need as many Labour MPs as we can to provide robust opposition under a new leader so that Theresa May doesn't have a blank cheque to do whatever she likes to you". Remove Jezbollah from contention and we may have a chance...
    Ah, the 2001 Tory strategy.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I hope no one has failed to notice Angela Merkel's rebound in the polls. She can be backed for next Chancellor on Betfair at 1.69, which looks a steal to me.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    Bonjour PBers ....

    One interesting little snippet from the POTFR election by our old friends in the Auld Aliiance, is that despite all the terrorist attacks in Paris over the past few years, Len Pen polled under 5% of the vote in the French capital.

    These days the Parisian population is mainly composed of three categories: traditional conservative upper class in the west of the city, wealthy bobos in the centre, immigrants in the east. The Le Pen-voting population (working class and lower middle class whites) is pretty non-existent within the city itself.
    Thanks for that explanation.

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,855

    ToryJim said:

    I'd be interested to know why so many of our regular posters are mournful that France looks set to pick a moderate centrist president who isn't fascist or batshit mental.

    Probably not the moderate centrism that's concerning but the lack of experience and largely blank canvass. Things could go wrong very quickly.
    Oh I'm not particularly expecting him to be a good president. The disappointment on Ms Le Pen's behalf in some quarters, however, is palpable.
    It is indeed. It is almost as if tbey are frothing europhobes.
    Or Remainers projecting......anyone who didn't agree with us, or did, but accepts the result, must be a frothing europhobe.....
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,519

    ToryJim said:

    I'd be interested to know why so many of our regular posters are mournful that France looks set to pick a moderate centrist president who isn't fascist or batshit mental.

    Probably not the moderate centrism that's concerning but the lack of experience and largely blank canvass. Things could go wrong very quickly.
    Oh I'm not particularly expecting him to be a good president. The disappointment on Ms Le Pen's behalf in some quarters, however, is palpable.
    It is indeed. It is almost as if tbey are frothing europhobes.

    An interesting triple up on Skybet requestabet : Con 400-450, Lab 100-150, LD 10-19 at 12/1. Sounds about right to me.
    Still find it hard to believe that Labour could be sub 150. I mean I know the polls indicate that at the moment but wow. Good odds though. Got to be more likely than that.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087

    kle4 said:

    Balrog said:

    So how does one judge success. Total profit/loss on an election, % profit compared to exposure, ROI taking into account duration money tied up for?

    As a very casual gambler, I count it a success merely if my winnings exceed my losses - this meant despite getting almost everything wrong in 2015 I ended up Green because I had a bet of £20 for every UKIP MP above/under 5 with JohnnyJimmy, which won me £80!

    2017 so far has the most individual bets I've ever placed, quite a few constituency bets, so I'd like to get at least half right.
    @kle4 our only bet was my £20 @ 7/4 on Tories over 300 seats. Not sure who you had the ukip bet with..
    Odd that I remember I won but not who! You're right, that bet was one of my more embarrassing losses! Apologies
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    JackW said:

    Bonjour PBers ....

    One interesting little snippet from the POTFR election by our old friends in the Auld Aliiance, is that despite all the terrorist attacks in Paris over the past few years, Len Pen polled under 5% of the vote in the French capital.

    These days the Parisian population is mainly composed of three categories: traditional conservative upper class in the west of the city, wealthy bobos in the centre, immigrants in the east. The Le Pen-voting population (working class and lower middle class whites) is pretty non-existent within the city itself.
    Cheers for your early tip on Macron. Tipster of the year so far.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    ydoethur said:

    I'd be interested to know why so many of our regular posters are mournful that France looks set to pick a moderate centrist president who isn't fascist or batshit mental.

    Because after Orban, Juncker, Verhofstadt, Renzi and Tsipras they assumed that all European leaders are Fascists and/or batshit crazy, and have bet accordingly?
    And, after all, the fascist and the batshit leftists came close to half the vote.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,855
    edited April 2017
    Talk about people taking the result badly.....

    https://twitter.com/MikeGapes/status/856245815337267202
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,028
    Sean_F said:

    I'd be interested to know why so many of our regular posters are mournful that France looks set to pick a moderate centrist president who isn't fascist or batshit mental.

    Lost profits?
    No. I don't think a lot of them have bet a penny on the election actually.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,543
    edited April 2017

    As in 2015 its not our policies that are the issue, its the personality.

    Incidentally, these policies - I worry that they are only superficially popular. Let's take, for example, free school meals coupled with VAT on private school fees, or nationalisation of the railways coupled with vast investment in the network. Everyone likes the sound of those on paper. Rich bastards paying for poor people's food and trains that run on time for the first time since the death of Brunel. Fabulous. But the first policy, as I have explained, would actually end by bankrupting the state education system by imposing massive unfunded extra costs on it (that's leaving aside the problem that most primary schools do not have kitchen facilities and so massive sums will have to be spent upfront). As for the second, borrowing £500 billion so our debt balloons by 25% and our interest payments rise to around £70 billion would be disastrous - it would literally bankrupt the whole government. Certainly it would be the end of the NHS and possibly free schooling also.

    So I would be careful about saying the policy offering is OK. It seems more than likely it will be shredded on close analysis, however attractive in theory.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,190
    ydoethur said:

    As in 2015 its not our policies that are the issue, its the personality. Remember that Ed was dubbed Communist for suggesting energy price caps. I suspect noone will brand May Communist for adopting the same policy.

    Still, my CLP Exec met last night and mapped out our campaign. Our rebuttal to the Corbyn issue on the doorstep when raised is simple.

    "Jeremy will not become Prime Minister because we aren't going to win this election. But we need as many Labour MPs as we can to provide robust opposition under a new leader so that Theresa May doesn't have a blank cheque to do whatever she likes to you". Remove Jezbollah from contention and we may have a chance...

    It is still a stupid policy though. Breaking up the energy company cartels would be more effective.

    On your second point, while the Jezziah will undoubtedly magnify the scale of your defeat, given the significant problems Labour faces - zero economic credibility, acute shortage of political talent, lack of funds, a withering demographic base, a trade union movement in apparently terminal decline - I am not quite sure why you think any alternative would do better just by not being him?

    I don't think Labour are doomed, but one of the big problems with Corbyn and to a lesser extent Miliband was that the leadership's ineptitude allows people to blame them for the disaster, rather than taking a long hard look at Labour's situation and trying to correct it. Much the problem the Tories had under Hague and IDS, indeed.
    +1

    Labour's killer isn't Corbyn; it's the fundamental that its business model is broken. To fund an overblown public sector, it burdens the private sector with more than is sustainable. Every time it tries the same thing - every time, the economy tanks and the poorest in society are the ones who get hit hardest.

    And it's almost as if these folks have noticed.....
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    ToryJim said:

    I'd be interested to know why so many of our regular posters are mournful that France looks set to pick a moderate centrist president who isn't fascist or batshit mental.

    Probably not the moderate centrism that's concerning but the lack of experience and largely blank canvass. Things could go wrong very quickly.
    Oh I'm not particularly expecting him to be a good president. The disappointment on Ms Le Pen's behalf in some quarters, however, is palpable.
    It is indeed. It is almost as if tbey are frothing europhobes.
    Or Remainers projecting......anyone who didn't agree with us, or did, but accepts the result, must be a frothing europhobe.....
    Who are these "mournful" people, anyway?
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Talk about people taking the result badly.....

    https://twitter.com/MikeGapes/status/856245815337267202

    I wonder who he had in mind when writing that tweet. Somehow I picture someone other than M. Mélenchon and M. Fillon.
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    Chris_from_ParisChris_from_Paris Posts: 198
    edited April 2017
    This map demonstrates that Macron had succes in his balancing act:

    - he sweeps the traditional core geography of the socialists: South-West, Centre-West, Bretagne (the Le Drian support was a huge factor), rural Auvergne departements, easter inner suburbs of Paris. His squeezing of Hamon was extremely succesful.

    - but he also performs very well in traditional centre-right areas like Normandy, Vendee, Southern massif Central, and the western inner suburbs and all outer suburbs of Paris. This is where Fillon lost the election. He got the core right-wing vote but not the more christian-democrat, centre-right areas.

    What is not visible on this map is that Macron also did well in the North-East. Le Pen had huge scores as expected but Macron was second in many places and once again outscored Fillon in former centre-right bastions like Alsace or Picardy.

    Mélenchon got massive scores in metropolitan areas and overseas territories but his failure to beat Macron in more rural areas prevented him from reaching 20%


  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,543

    Talk about people taking the result badly.....

    https://twitter.com/MikeGapes/status/856245815337267202

    Do I get the feeling he dislikes Melenchon?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087

    Also the polling does not seem wildly out of line with the BES......

    Warning signs for Labour
    Data from the British Election Study suggest Conservatives are piling up votes in Labour-held seats.....

    .....There are, however, clear warning signs for Labour that the party may under-perform in seats its current miserable levels in (reported) vote share.


    https://medium.com/@chrishanretty/warning-signs-for-labour-50b6cd1501d8
    Worrisome for labour. I had had guessed the Tory lead might be blunted by piling up votes in safe seats, but if that is right...
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,812

    I'd be interested to know why so many of our regular posters are mournful that France looks set to pick a moderate centrist president who isn't fascist or batshit mental.

    Are they?

    I haven't detected that.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,739

    ToryJim said:

    I'd be interested to know why so many of our regular posters are mournful that France looks set to pick a moderate centrist president who isn't fascist or batshit mental.

    Probably not the moderate centrism that's concerning but the lack of experience and largely blank canvass. Things could go wrong very quickly.
    Oh I'm not particularly expecting him to be a good president. The disappointment on Ms Le Pen's behalf in some quarters, however, is palpable.
    It is indeed. It is almost as if tbey are frothing europhobes.
    Or Remainers projecting......anyone who didn't agree with us, or did, but accepts the result, must be a frothing europhobe.....
    Who are these "mournful" people, anyway?
    Self-identifying?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,028

    Roger said:

    fitalass said:
    I wonder what it must feel like leading a party into a General Election knowing you personally are responsible for the looming disasterous result and being the cause of so many devoted people losing their jobs?
    That would depend on the person, of course. Corbyn and the rest of his faction endured decades of crushing, banging their heads against a brick wall, defeat before unexpectedly winning the 2015 leadership election. Losing has been a way of life for them.

    I'm not sure whether or not they would be that bothered by the mass rejection off their fellow MPs. I'm almost certain that they won't be that bothered about ruinous defeat at the polls. Far more concerned about establishing permanent ascendancy in the Labour Party and turning it into a lobby group for their ideas, I would've thought.

    And now, an anecdote for the day:

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/856103679157514240

    Reminder: the Labour Party now has 44 days left to convince the voters of England and Wales that a Far Left minority Government, led by Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott and Thornberry, and propped up by the votes of Scottish Nationalists, is something to be celebrated.
    As in 2015 its not our policies that are the issue, its the personality. Remember that Ed was dubbed Communist for suggesting energy price caps. I suspect noone will brand May Communist for adopting the same policy.

    Still, my CLP Exec met last night and mapped out our campaign. Our rebuttal to the Corbyn issue on the doorstep when raised is simple.

    "Jeremy will not become Prime Minister because we aren't going to win this election. But we need as many Labour MPs as we can to provide robust opposition under a new leader so that Theresa May doesn't have a blank cheque to do whatever she likes to you". Remove Jezbollah from contention and we may have a chance...
    It might be ok for locals but that is a horrible strategy for national elections. Vote for us to make it close, don't worry we won't win.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    This map demonstrates that Macron had succes in his balancing act:

    - he sweeps the traditional core geography of the socialists: South-West, Centre-West, Bretagne (the Le Drian support was a huge factor), rural Auvergne departements, easter inner suburbs of Paris. His squeezing of Hamon was extremely succesful.

    - but he also performs very well in traditional centre-right areas like Normandy, Vendee, Southern massif Central, and the western inner suburbs and all outer suburbs of Paris. This is where Fillon lost the election. He got the core right-wing vote but not the more christian-democrat, centre-right areas.

    What is not visible on this map is that Macron also did well in the North-East. Le Pen had huge scores as expected but Macron was second in many places and once again outscored Fillon in former centre-right bastions like Alsace or Picardy.

    Mélenchon got massive scores in metropolitan areas and overseas territories but his failure to beat Macron in more rural areas prevented him from reaching 20%


    Any thoughts on the Asembly elections? Is En Marche viable at that level? Surely it must be transfer friendly?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087

    Roger said:

    fitalass said:
    I wonder what it must feel like leading a party into a General Election knowing you personally are responsible for the looming disasterous result and being the cause of so many devoted people losing their jobs?
    That would depend on the person, of course. Corbyn and the rest of his faction endured decades of crushing, banging their heads against a brick wall, defeat before unexpectedly winning the 2015 leadership election. Losing has been a way of life for them.

    I'm not sure whether or not they would be that bothered by the mass rejection off their fellow MPs. I'm almost certain that they won't be that bothered about ruinous defeat at the polls. Far more concerned about establishing permanent ascendancy in the Labour Party and turning it into a lobby group for their ideas, I would've thought.

    And now, an anecdote for the day:

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/856103679157514240

    Reminder: the Labour Party now has 44 days left to convince the voters of England and Wales that a Far Left minority Government, led by Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott and Thornberry, and propped up by the votes of Scottish Nationalists, is something to be celebrated.
    As in 2015 its not our policies that are the issue, its the personality. Remember that Ed was dubbed Communist for suggesting energy price caps. I suspect noone will brand May Communist for adopting the same policy.

    Still, my CLP Exec met last night and mapped out our campaign. Our rebuttal to the Corbyn issue on the doorstep when raised is simple.

    "Jeremy will not become Prime Minister because we aren't going to win this election. But we need as many Labour MPs as we can to provide robust opposition under a new leader so that Theresa May doesn't have a blank cheque to do whatever she likes to you". Remove Jezbollah from contention and we may have a chance...
    Well I appreciate you have a response ready to the challenge, although if I'm someone challenging you about him I'd be concerned the party so gleefully chose him, twice, which is not really addressed by your point.

    And what if my labour candidate is the next Jeremy Corbyn - it'd be saving up trouble for the future.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087
    fitalass said:

    Roger said:

    All those who support the European project and reject the ugly and divisive right wing politics of Trump and Farage and co should be delighted with this result. Following Geert Wilders obliteration in Holland this period will hopefully be seen as nothing more than an uncomfortable blip in the history of Western democracy.

    The fact that during this blip we made the catastrophic decision to cast ourselves out from the most attractive and politically advanced institution in the world is a catastrophy that can hopefully be reversed in the not too distant future

    Roger, like you, I was a remain voter and I was gutted at the result. But thanks to the SNP in Scotland trying to use my Remain vote in the EU Ref as an excuse to ignore my No vote in the 2014 Indy Ref and call another Indy Ref. I now find that it has actually strengthened my view that the Brexit result should be respected, and the issue is now all about deciding which party will fight the hardest to get the best Brexit deal.

    The SNP attempt to try to piggyback another Indy Referendum on the back of the Brexit result has backfired in Scotland, and it might yet see the Libdems in Scotland struggle to be seen as a clear alternative to the SNP on Independence while the UK wide party campaigns for another EU Referendum in the hope of overturning the original result.
    It hasn't backfired yet, but we can hope.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,812

    ToryJim said:

    I'd be interested to know why so many of our regular posters are mournful that France looks set to pick a moderate centrist president who isn't fascist or batshit mental.

    Probably not the moderate centrism that's concerning but the lack of experience and largely blank canvass. Things could go wrong very quickly.
    Oh I'm not particularly expecting him to be a good president. The disappointment on Ms Le Pen's behalf in some quarters, however, is palpable.
    It is indeed. It is almost as if tbey are frothing europhobes.
    Or Remainers projecting......anyone who didn't agree with us, or did, but accepts the result, must be a frothing europhobe.....
    It's probably more a case on those in the centre/on the centre-left finally having a political result they can celebrate, and enjoying it.

    Which might include a little mild trolling of their political opponents.
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,486

    Forget Brexit. Can May finally win over the working class?
    Matthew d'Ancona


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/24/brexit-may-working-class-election?CMP=twt_gu

    Interesting article, with much to ponder
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087

    So today is Welsh polling day. Let's hope it lives up to the hype.

    Tough act to follow and surely not as dramatic, since the Tories have been making inroads for do evwhile I believe.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,223
    Pulpstar said:

    I reckon Macron will be able to get more resolved than Fillon might simply because he is nominally from the left and so De facto carries more than just LR would have done.

    It was Socialist Schroeder who liberalised the German labour market, so it is possible.
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    bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042

    I see after all the hysteria that the French polling was very accurate and the French vote sampling was very accurate.

    The betting markets were not.

    It seems that for the while it will be profitable not to follow the money.

    Yes, we could do with some French pollsters over here! No wonder the exit poll is treated as a result in France - it is pretty much bang on.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,939

    I'd be interested to know why so many of our regular posters are mournful that France looks set to pick a moderate centrist president who isn't fascist or batshit mental.

    ..........or why now we are leaving the EU so many want it to fail.

    It's a British characteristic summed up by Gore Vidal 'Every time a friend succeeds something Inside me dies'
  • Options
    I have come to the conclusion that it's not Corbyn's fault that Labour are doing so badly in the polls here, it's Labour in general. We have had two elections in EU member nations where the Socialists (i.e members of the same European grouping that Labour sit in) have crashed and burned. In the Netherlands the Labour grouping collapsed from 25% in 2012 to just 6% and now in France, they have collapsed from 29% to just 6% (an average drop in those two countries of -21%). I don't think that it will be that bad here in the UK for Labour, but the trend does appear to be continuing here in the UK. Socialists in Europe are being hammered.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087
    edited April 2017
    bobajobPB said:

    I see after all the hysteria that the French polling was very accurate and the French vote sampling was very accurate.

    The betting markets were not.

    It seems that for the while it will be profitable not to follow the money.

    Yes, we could do with some French pollsters over here! No wonder the exit poll is treated as a result in France - it is pretty much bang on.
    Our exit poll was pretty decent. And there's was based on a sampling of actual votes people say. More a snapshot than an exit poll.
This discussion has been closed.