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  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,726

    Fishing said:

    kle4 said:

    To play devils advocate in defence of Corbyn's bank holiday plans: yes they don't make sense economically, and the timing of the dates is not ideal, but it could be seen as a good way of trying to foster British unionism. If we all celebrate each other's patron saint day it may go a little way towards fostering better relations between the constituent parts of the UK. No idea if that is why Corbyn has chosen this though.

    I'm sure it is. As policies go I can see it being reasonably popular and well meaning.
    Bank holidays are a relic from the late 19th century, before the days of annual leave entitlements. If I were dictator (and the country could do a lot worse) I'd abolish them and add the number of days to annual leave entitlements. Then people could take their holiday when they chose, not when the government thinks they should.

    And I'd shoot anybody who said that this increased freedom was a bad idea.
    No need to be a dictator that's already the law, although companies are allowed to shutdown and make you use one of your 28 day entitlement if they've shut down on that day.
    Some larger engineering works still do a summer shutdown where everyone has to take 5 or 10 of their statutory days off as compulsory holiday whilst the machines are overhauled.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    JPJ2 said:

    Scott P
    "Aw bless"

    The Yes campaign moved from 30 per cent to 45 per cent in Indyref1

    Glad to see the unionist complacent that allowed that to happen is alive and well :-)

    Most of us are not complacent - but a unionist revival at westminster of significant proportions, if still easily a minority of the total, would be the best news we have had in some while.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Icarus said:

    I assume Labour's cunning plan is to bring out a new daft BIG policy a day though the campaign. 4 new bank holidays on Saints days is today's, what do PBers think the others will be?

    Larger Mars bars?

    I think Corbyn has a more ambitious plan in mind - Mars Bars made from chunks of the planet Mars!

    I represents a great opportunity for a New World of Socialism (literally!!) and the planet is even red in colour.

    The RMT will transport their fraternal socialist brothers, the miners (led by the heretic Scargill who will be banished to Mars until he repents) to the New World where they will dig out regularly shaped parallelopipeds of crustal material which will be packed and shipped back to the Earthly Proletariat so that they can participate in the bright new future.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289
    edited April 2017
    alex. said:

    ToryJim said:
    It seems the Labour campaign on the doorsteps is basically going to be "vote Labour because we can't win". And not stupid given that most people don't believe Corbyn can win.
    On the other hand the likes of Streeting do need to retain the support of their members and Corbyn-inclined voters (he's already getting tweets like "you lost my support when you turned on our party")

    And there is no escaping that a vote for him is a step towards Corbyn becoming PM, since the one thing that is certain is that if by some miracle Corbyn actually wins, the moderates' chance of dislodging him then are zero!
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,866
    edited April 2017
    Twitter rumour: Mili_D to return and stand in a Nottinghamshire constituency.

    Edit: Nottingham North - Graham Allen is retiring.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    Mr. 124, cheers, I was unaware of that timing aspect of the Act.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719
    Scott_P said:

    I wonder if Fat Eck is hoping he loses his Westminster seat.

    Not only would it allow him to collect yet another taxpayer cheque for losing, it would free him up to return to Holyrood and take over again, now that Nicola's bum is oot the windae

    Getting a bit ahead of yourself Scott, you frothers wet your pants regularly but always end up as bridesmaids, calm down Dear
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    JPJ2 said:

    Morris Dancer
    I regard an advance by the Tories in Scotland as Pyrrhic as it will put Scotland in an unambiguous Tory v SNP state in which no matter how much May and the MSM shriek, the SNP are the winners.

    May will block the referendum which flies the face of the demographics which show over 70 per cent of 16 year olds support independence. Delay is a negative for unionists

    Also Ashcroft's polls show that a majority of Scots do not think Westminster have a right to block given Holyrood has voted for the referendum. Resentment will therefore build.

    ah yes, "demographics are destiny" as President Clinton can attest to....
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    JPJ2 said:

    Moniker di Canio
    "16 year olds grow up"

    Indeed they do-but every 16 year old in Scotland has spent his whole life in a country
    In which Holyrood has existed.
    Such people now ask why a parliament based in another country should veto the Scottish parliament. That is quite distinct from the gradual drift to the right which often does come with age.

    Because they're part of the same country. That's be like someone in Texas wondering why Washingtpn DC can overrule them on a Federal matter.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Cons down to evens in D&G.

    Other borders constituency prices holding. This is crazy people
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191
    alex. said:

    ToryJim said:
    It seems the Labour campaign on the doorsteps is basically going to be "vote Labour because we can't win". And not stupid given that most people don't believe Corbyn can win.
    It won't work and it certainly won't save Wes
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719

    After seeing Corbyn this morning I cannot image how he would stand up in any debate format. The man is unelectable

    G, at least he has the cojones to debate and does not run away
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    murali_s said:

    Ave_it said:

    SLAB will get 0 seats this time

    We should get 3 min IE all the borders. Might get a few more. Not sure we will get Edinburgh N :)

    Ave_it - why are you worried? Tories should get a majority of AT LEAST 150.
    Hello murali - it's not happening! But I could be wrong :)
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,888
    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I didn't realise until reading this article that "dominatrices" was the plural of "dominatrix". I'd been using "dominatrixes". I feel kind of stupid now.

    To be fair it isn't a word you need to use in the plural very often.

    What a quiet life you lead.
    TMI, Alistair, TMI...
    Blame, I was the one who wrote about hiring 400 dominatrixes in one night, concurrently.
    Information overload, Mr Eagles.

    (And shouldn't it be 'dominatrices?')
    Blinking auto correct
    Off topic - saw an open top Mercedes with number plate TSE 1 last Monday. Just wondering.
    I do have a private number plate, but not that one.

    I do find private number plates a bit gauche but my parents bought it for me years ago.
    These are one thing for which the American name is unquestionably better.

    They call them "vanity plates".
    I agree, were it not that it was a gift from my parents I'd have ditched it.

    Rather sums up my parents, I had just passed my driving test, and for the first time in his life, my father bought a brand new car, and it was for me.

    Replete with private number plate.

    I'm already enough of a bad son, without throwing the number plates back at them.
    Hah!

    I passed my driving test and my parents bought me a 10 year old third hand VW Polo for about £500...
    You were very lucky; I came home after passing and my father told me not to think about borrowing his car; he had, he sadi, no reason to think I was competent.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    Btw - the choice of thread pic was purely for Scrapheap following my blatant trolling of him last week.

    The polls in that image were out by around 17%, in favour of Labour.

    If the same were true today, this would be the most one-sided election in history, eclipsing the 'doctor's mandate' of 1931, the coupon election of 1918, the Tariff Reform election of 1906, the Reform Act election of 1832 and the Pitt election of 1784.

    I don't think it will be quite as bad as Tories win 60-20, but it's already looking absolutely brutal.
    It's the Scotland polling that got me.

    I was tipped off about the Tories getting 12 seats, I swore lots and felt shocked into paralysis for a few mins.
    It is utter and total bollox, there is absolutely no chance of Tories getting 12 seats in Scotland. Anyone who believes that is a cretin.
    The most optimistic specific predictions I had seen before this latest poll was 5-6, of which I had assumed they could win 2, maybe 3. What's your take?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    justin124 said:

    If the polls are accurate, Labour's going to play the part of Alderaan to the Conservatives' Death Star.

    It's already bad for democracy to have such an inept opposition. If Labour are this badly harmed, they have to axe Corbyn or split. The alternative is a risk of the worst result for Labour since WWII, to be followed five years later by an even worse result.

    Still a long way to go, though. I wonder if May's regretting making the campaign period so long.

    She had no choice - under the terms of the FTPA there have to be 5 weeks between Dissolution and Polling Day. What I still cannot get my head around is why Corbyn meekly bowed to her wishes. Had he got Labour to abstain and denied fer the required 434 , he could be PM by now if May had continued with her election plans by tabling a No Confidence Vote in her own Government. The guy is thoroughly imbecilic.
    I agree with your last sentence but it's not really clear that the no-confidence route would have made Corbyn temporary PM. There was a thread on this a while back - the precedents are a bit mixed but it seems unlikely.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,761
    ToryJim said:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/856077172741726209

    Anyone care to let Tim know what he's doing wrong here?

    Lab/Lib policies on Hard BREXIT are identical arent they?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719
    JPJ2 said:

    I see that emboldened by a couple of opinion polls Scott P and Roger are churning out total lies about both Salmond and the efforts of SNP MPs

    They should both remember the truth, not lies, about the nastiness of the rape clause Tories and how easy it will be to remind Scots of that.

    Any Tory "victory" in Scotland can only be relative, and when the dust settles, it will be clear that the snp have far more seats than the Tories in Scotland and that delaying a referendum is merely delaying the end on the Union.

    Enjoy your Pyrrhic victory

    They have won nothing
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    Has Corbyn just explained Tucker's Law of Politics to an astonished live TV broadcaster this morning?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Fishing said:

    kle4 said:

    To play devils advocate in defence of Corbyn's bank holiday plans: yes they don't make sense economically, and the timing of the dates is not ideal, but it could be seen as a good way of trying to foster British unionism. If we all celebrate each other's patron saint day it may go a little way towards fostering better relations between the constituent parts of the UK. No idea if that is why Corbyn has chosen this though.

    I'm sure it is. As policies go I can see it being reasonably popular and well meaning.
    Bank holidays are a relic from the late 19th century, before the days of annual leave entitlements. If I were dictator (and the country could do a lot worse) I'd abolish them and add the number of days to annual leave entitlements. Then people could take their holiday when they chose, not when the government thinks they should.

    And I'd shoot anybody who said that this increased freedom was a bad idea.
    No need to be a dictator that's already the law, although companies are allowed to shutdown and make you use one of your 28 day entitlement if they've shut down on that day.
    Some larger engineering works still do a summer shutdown where everyone has to take 5 or 10 of their statutory days off as compulsory holiday whilst the machines are overhauled.
    It makes sense to do that. Better than not overhauling the machines!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,689
    JPJ2 said:

    Morris Dancer
    I regard an advance by the Tories in Scotland as Pyrrhic as it will put Scotland in an unambiguous Tory v SNP state in which no matter how much May and the MSM shriek, the SNP are the winners.

    May will block the referendum which flies the face of the demographics which show over 70 per cent of 16 year olds support independence. Delay is a negative for unionists

    Also Ashcroft's polls show that a majority of Scots do not think Westminster have a right to block given Holyrood has voted for the referendum. Resentment will therefore build.

    Complete rubbish, polls show No would still win and the fall in SNP support is a direct result of voters annoyance at Sturgeon's call for indyref2 just 2 years after the last referendum. Westminster is sovereign and will decide if an when to grant Sturgeon another official referendum she should concentrate on her day job at Holyrood, in Spain the government completely ignore the Catalan nationalists even when they have a majority in Catalonia and they have had no independence referendum at all
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191
    justin124 said:

    If the polls are accurate, Labour's going to play the part of Alderaan to the Conservatives' Death Star.

    It's already bad for democracy to have such an inept opposition. If Labour are this badly harmed, they have to axe Corbyn or split. The alternative is a risk of the worst result for Labour since WWII, to be followed five years later by an even worse result.

    Still a long way to go, though. I wonder if May's regretting making the campaign period so long.

    She had no choice - under the terms of the FTPA there have to be 5 weeks between Dissolution and Polling Day. What I still cannot get my head around is why Corbyn meekly bowed to her wishes. Had he got Labour to abstain and denied fer the required 434 , he could be PM by now if May had continued with her election plans by tabling a No Confidence Vote in her own Government. The guy is thoroughly imbecilic.
    He was boxed in, by announcing she wanted an election because of potential opposition game playing she had checkmated him. Had he done what you suggest she would have been able to point at him and say "see what I mean, gameplaying".
  • HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    It turns out Anna Soubry is still my MP, I thought I had moved out of her constituency after the last election but I was wrong. Hmmmm....
  • kle4 said:

    Hang on

    St David's Day on 1 March, St Patrick's Day on 17 March, St George's Day on 23 April

    Plus Easter and the Two May Bank holidays!

    There wouldn't be a deal done in my office for a while...

    You dont have to give people bank holidays off, they get x days per year that's it. I think. And they usually choose to give you x - bank holidays off per year. So they'd just not give so many of the cluster off automatically.
    This is an important point about this policy which has rather been glossed over. Bank holidays do indeed count towards statutory holiday entitlement so, unless that is also changed, all the proposal does is force people to reduce their summer holiday slightly in exchange for the joy of spending a wintry day on 1 March staring at a wall in Llangollen.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    ToryJim said:

    I cannot even start to imagine where labour will be if Corbyn performs as badly as he did on Marr today.

    Some suggested sub 20% - I have been treating the polls with caution but I am really coming to the conclusion that this election is going to be very like Blair in 1997

    Potentially worse, Major was a decent man Corbyn fundamentally isn't.
    Major won just over 30% of the vote in 1997, almost as much as EdM two years ago. The Tories were smashed so badly because of tactical voting and the vagaries of FPTP. They had a solid base of support that wouldn't desert in 2001 either, and so were ready to rebuild when they found a half-decent leader.

    Corbyn, on the other hand, might not make 25%. The size of the irreducible Labour core is unclear, but its certainly substantially smaller than that which John Major and William Hague could rely on - and what's more, the Conservatives can cross the finishing line without Scotland. Labour had that luxury too under Blair, but they have repudiated the man, his legacy and his politics. A more left-leaning Labour Party, even under a vastly more moderate, credible and competent leader than Corbyn, is going to struggle desperately to rebuild, and then find that their reliance on SNP votes to prop up a Labour minority Government is an enduring obstacle to their returning to power. The SNP still seems to go down very well indeed with over 40% of Scots, but outside of Scotland it has all the appeal of toxic waste, or perhaps an estate agents' convention.

    Because of the Tories' relative weakness in Scotland, May probably can't aspire to a majority as gigantic as that of Tony Blair in 1997 and 2001. However, the post-2017 Labour Party may find it even harder to claw its way back to relevance than did the post-1997 Conservatives. It might not even prove possible for them to do so.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,225
    HaroldO said:

    It turns out Anna Soubry is still my MP, I thought I had moved out of her constituency after the last election but I was wrong. Hmmmm....

    An understandable mistake to make as she moved planets....
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    If Tories copy the bank holiday plan, and frankly I'm surprised it's not already a Tory plan, for god's sake chandelier the ones we have, they are too clustered.

    Nah, they'll say that it's no surprise the party of the three day week want to give us more days off, with the commensurate drop in GDP. However they might be willing to look at shuffling dates around to put a holiday somewhere between August and Christmas.
    The Tories were the party of the Three Day Week. Has Ted Heath been completely airbrushed?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    And as an aside, the first sentence in the Labour party's description in Wikipedia is:

    "The Labour Party is a centre-left political party in the United Kingdom."

    Methinks that needs altering. They're *way* off the centre ground.

    Dont be in a hurry to change it.

    If we wait a bit we can add "was"
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    dr_spyn said:

    Has Corbyn just explained Tucker's Law of Politics to an astonished live TV broadcaster this morning?

    Explained it or demonstrated it?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,373
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    Btw - the choice of thread pic was purely for Scrapheap following my blatant trolling of him last week.

    The polls in that image were out by around 17%, in favour of Labour.

    If the same were true today, this would be the most one-sided election in history, eclipsing the 'doctor's mandate' of 1931, the coupon election of 1918, the Tariff Reform election of 1906, the Reform Act election of 1832 and the Pitt election of 1784.

    I don't think it will be quite as bad as Tories win 60-20, but it's already looking absolutely brutal.
    It's the Scotland polling that got me.

    I was tipped off about the Tories getting 12 seats, I swore lots and felt shocked into paralysis for a few mins.
    It is utter and total bollox, there is absolutely no chance of Tories getting 12 seats in Scotland. Anyone who believes that is a cretin.
    Och, surely getting two seats more than Thatch managed in her worst ever Scottish result is doable.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    GIN1138 said:

    Ave_it said:

    Hello malcolm are you worried about losing moray and Perth & Perthshire N?

    Ave it!!!!!!!! Are you back in Team Blue now? :D
    For the time being! Unless I decide to go SNP :):):)
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    The Chinese were wrong about interesting times. Yes I am partisan but I'm also a 40-year old student of politics who has been entertained by it since 1992. And although my lot are Alderaan you do have to laugh about how we got here. And how Jezbollah is helping Tarkin better target said Death Star so that the laser remains square on Diane Abbott at all times.

    TSE makes some interesting points and I do think there are a lot of variables in this particular negotiation with the electorate:

    1. Tory arrogance not complacency. They simply think the election and the country are theirs by rights. Combine that with points 6-9 and its not a guaranteed shoo-in. I still remember 2010 where despite all that Broon did to screw it up the Tories still managed to deliver a result that had us asking "is that it?"

    2 and 3. Labour will not win this election. Corbyn will never get his hands on the nuclear button (although he did once get his hands on Diane Abbott's "nuclear button") so that really helps the "I don't like Corbyn" voters. So what - he will be gone very soon. But your life of struggle and the Tories kicking you and laughing will remain. So the more Labour MPs we get the better our next leader can defend you. "Don't give MayBe a blank cheque" is a powerful argument

    4. Its the economy stupid. And the divide between the prospering and the struggling is a chasm that many of us in the prosperous half manage to ignore, or blame those stuck in the other half for. Never mind people blaming migrants as the issue, its the prosperous blaming the poor for poverty thats the real issue that grates with people on the doorstep. Its not a sympathy shag its desperation prostituting

    5. We intend to go to town on St Theresa. She is the biggest political liar of this generation - forget Clegg and Tuition Frees MayBe lied about Brexit and lied about an election and lied about her budget and changes her mind every time the wind changes direction. And she says this election is one of trust - yes she will win but do you trust her enough to give her the power to do anything she wants to do?

    The Tories will win. They expect it. Labour HQ are preparing a Maginot Line defence strategy despite what we are saying to the press so we expect it. The bookies expect it. Its all there for May to replicate Thatcher and rule for a generation. And MayBe she will and MayBe she won't. My years studying politics tell me anything is possible, and expect the unexpected. Events dear boy...

    The Maginot Line was not a success
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719
    Sean_F said:

    JPJ2 said:

    I see that emboldened by a couple of opinion polls Scott P and Roger are churning out total lies about both Salmond and the efforts of SNP MPs

    They should both remember the truth, not lies, about the nastiness of the rape clause Tories and how easy it will be to remind Scots of that.

    Any Tory "victory" in Scotland can only be relative, and when the dust settles, it will be clear that the snp have far more seats than the Tories in Scotland and that delaying a referendum is merely delaying the end on the Union.

    Enjoy your Pyrrhic victory

    The Tories will rue the day they defied the SNP.
    Are Tories on here so thick they cannot come up with anything original
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062

    ToryJim said:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/856077172741726209

    Anyone care to let Tim know what he's doing wrong here?

    Lab/Lib policies on Hard BREXIT are identical arent they?
    No Labour/Tory. Tim's got it right.

    How do you think Labour are going to do? Better or worse than under milliband?
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191
    edited April 2017
    Another "interesting" UKIP candidate

    https://twitter.com/sophwilkinson/status/856062591428419588

    Edit: Actually the same one
  • kle4 said:

    Hang on

    St David's Day on 1 March, St Patrick's Day on 17 March, St George's Day on 23 April

    Plus Easter and the Two May Bank holidays!

    There wouldn't be a deal done in my office for a while...

    You dont have to give people bank holidays off, they get x days per year that's it. I think. And they usually choose to give you x - bank holidays off per year. So they'd just not give so many of the cluster off automatically.
    If you have been in a contract a long time (basically since before 2009) and your contract has not been amended then it is quite possible that you are now entitled to 8 days extra holiday compared to when you signed your contract.

    A lot of contracts used to say you were entitled to 'the statutory minimum plus bank holidays'. In 2009 that statutory minimum was changed from 20 days to 28 days but was assumed to include the 8 bank holidays as there was no legal requirement to give these. But legally if your contract still says 'the statutory minimum plus bank holidays' then you are contractually entitled to 36 days (the 28 days statutory plus 8 days bank holidays).
    Legally, that's not right. Obviously it will depend on drafting, but the definition of "statutory minimum" will either be pegged to the legislation at the time, or would be interpreted by a court as having the meaning at the time the contract was drafted (the intent of contracting parties does not change just because the language has moved on). Only if your contract defined "statutory minimum" as being the statutory minimum "as from time to time defined" might you have some point - even then it would be highly arguable.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    justin124 said:

    If the polls are accurate, Labour's going to play the part of Alderaan to the Conservatives' Death Star.

    It's already bad for democracy to have such an inept opposition. If Labour are this badly harmed, they have to axe Corbyn or split. The alternative is a risk of the worst result for Labour since WWII, to be followed five years later by an even worse result.

    Still a long way to go, though. I wonder if May's regretting making the campaign period so long.

    She had no choice - under the terms of the FTPA there have to be 5 weeks between Dissolution and Polling Day. What I still cannot get my head around is why Corbyn meekly bowed to her wishes. Had he got Labour to abstain and denied fer the required 434 , he could be PM by now if May had continued with her election plans by tabling a No Confidence Vote in her own Government. The guy is thoroughly imbecilic.
    No, he couldn't.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719

    Tories getting 10 seats or over in Scotland 6/1- still seems good value I think?

    Any other opinions to help me decide if to go in again? Maxed out at 10/1 yesterday

    Yes pile in and waste more money you stupid half witted cretin, there is no chance the Tories will do it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    ToryJim said:
    What is it with these people and comparing gay issues to beastiality?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PaulBrandITV: Liz Kendall can't bring herself to say she wants Corbyn to be PM. "I want a Labour government" is best she'll do. #peston

    @janinegibson: Brilliantly LIz Kendall is having as much trouble backing Jeremy Corbyn for PM as Tim Farron was saying gay sex is not a sin. #Peston
  • noisywinternoisywinter Posts: 249
    malcolmg said:

    Tories getting 10 seats or over in Scotland 6/1- still seems good value I think?

    Any other opinions to help me decide if to go in again? Maxed out at 10/1 yesterday

    Yes pile in and waste more money you stupid half witted cretin, there is no chance the Tories will do it.
    You are such a t**t
  • kle4 said:

    Hang on

    St David's Day on 1 March, St Patrick's Day on 17 March, St George's Day on 23 April

    Plus Easter and the Two May Bank holidays!

    There wouldn't be a deal done in my office for a while...

    You dont have to give people bank holidays off, they get x days per year that's it. I think. And they usually choose to give you x - bank holidays off per year. So they'd just not give so many of the cluster off automatically.
    This is an important point about this policy which has rather been glossed over. Bank holidays do indeed count towards statutory holiday entitlement so, unless that is also changed, all the proposal does is force people to reduce their summer holiday slightly in exchange for the joy of spending a wintry day on 1 March staring at a wall in Llangollen.
    Good steam railway on the other side of the wall in Llangollen
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    Scott_P said:

    @PaulBrandITV: Liz Kendall can't bring herself to say she wants Corbyn to be PM. "I want a Labour government" is best she'll do. #peston

    @janinegibson: Brilliantly LIz Kendall is having as much trouble backing Jeremy Corbyn for PM as Tim Farron was saying gay sex is not a sin. #Peston

    I almost feel for them, but it's their choices that put the man there. But really Liz, the only option you have is a Labour government led by Corbyn.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719
    GIN1138 said:

    Ave_it said:

    Hello malcolm are you worried about losing moray and Perth & Perthshire N?

    Ave it!!!!!!!! Are you back in Team Blue now? :D
    Morning GIN, what a to do , the Tories are wetting their pants continuously. When the idiots waken up on june 9th and realise they are just numpties and their creeps were crushed yet again , what will happen , nanny will not be pleased at the mess she has to clear up.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,652
    malcolmg said:

    Tories getting 10 seats or over in Scotland 6/1- still seems good value I think?

    Any other opinions to help me decide if to go in again? Maxed out at 10/1 yesterday

    Yes pile in and waste more money you stupid half witted cretin, there is no chance the Tories will do it.
    Malc, can you remember what you said about the Holyrood elections recently ?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Sandpit said:

    Sky News leading with Corbyn's plan for new bank holidays. Is anyone going to ask him about the saints represented, or ask Mrs Bucket about her views on St George's Day parties?

    Walked the dog earlier and saw some flags out.

    First thought, they won't be voting Labour.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    malcolmg said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Ave_it said:

    Hello malcolm are you worried about losing moray and Perth & Perthshire N?

    Ave it!!!!!!!! Are you back in Team Blue now? :D
    Morning GIN, what a to do , the Tories are wetting their pants continuously. When the idiots waken up on june 9th and realise they are just numpties and their creeps were crushed yet again , what will happen , nanny will not be pleased at the mess she has to clear up.
    From where they started, they'd be very pleased to increase to 3, if that can be managed. It'll just dim hopes of it being epochal. (returning to a previous epoch at least)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719

    Mr. G, how many Scottish seats do you think the Conservatives will win?

    Not many MD and amazing if the no users even hold the one they have
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,856
    Damian Green is on Sky saying the new Conservative government will "cap" energy prices. We're through the looking glass now, people.
  • HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    DavidL said:

    HaroldO said:

    It turns out Anna Soubry is still my MP, I thought I had moved out of her constituency after the last election but I was wrong. Hmmmm....

    An understandable mistake to make as she moved planets....
    The labour party were out in force in the local town centre yesterday, I avoided the leafletters as I didn't want to be condescended to as I was last time one collared me.
    Not sure whom I am going to vote for, and as I never let on afterwards I'm not going to go around the houses about it in public too much.
  • JPJ2JPJ2 Posts: 380
    HYUFD
    "complete rubbish" says you.

    What I have reported about the Ashcroft polling showing the majority of Scots believe Holyrood and not Westminster should decide if and when there should be Indyref2 is correct.

    Keep shrieking on in the face of that about the sovereignty of Westminster will be met by the majority in Scotland asserting the sovereignty of the people



    As an aside, even Spain sees no equivalence between Scotland and Catalonia- as Pons put it, they are "very,very,very" different.
  • ProdicusProdicus Posts: 658

    Not watching, is jezza knocking it out of the park on Marr?

    He is just dreadful and looks like a dead man walking to me
    So that's at least one person watching.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    SNP = :)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Another one that could be added to TSE's list is the return of anti-Tory tactical voting in Scotland, rather than anti-SNP. That might make the wilder seat gain projections there a tad optimistic?

    Won't tactical voting in Scotland be on unionist/nationalist lines?
    One would hope so - any allegedly patriotic Labour voter who votes SNP to keep the Tories out should take a long hard look at themselves. SNP -> Labour tactical voting is an interesting possibility, but moot given the lack of Labour/Tory contests in Scotland.
    Bollox, any Labour voter who votes Tory should be ashamed of themselves
    Morning Malc - seems my predictions of the rise of the conservatives and unionist support is crystalising in the Scots polls. I have concern over polls but the direction of travel, not only in Scotland but here in Wales, does point to a good conservative result in GE2017 and also in Scotland
    G, hold off on the champagne , it is a chimera
  • malcolmg said:

    Sean_F said:

    JPJ2 said:

    I see that emboldened by a couple of opinion polls Scott P and Roger are churning out total lies about both Salmond and the efforts of SNP MPs

    They should both remember the truth, not lies, about the nastiness of the rape clause Tories and how easy it will be to remind Scots of that.

    Any Tory "victory" in Scotland can only be relative, and when the dust settles, it will be clear that the snp have far more seats than the Tories in Scotland and that delaying a referendum is merely delaying the end on the Union.

    Enjoy your Pyrrhic victory

    The Tories will rue the day they defied the SNP.
    Are Tories on here so thick they cannot come up with anything original
    Malc - I thought we agreed the other day that I am not thick
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    ToryJim said:

    Scott_P said:

    As MPs packed into the Strangers’ Bar at Westminster on Tuesday evening, still trying to come to terms with Theresa May’s stunning Election announcement, one Labour veteran turned ruefully to his colleague and announced: ‘That’s it for me. I won’t be standing.’ ‘Why not?’ asked his startled friend. ‘Because if I did, I wouldn’t be able to vote for myself,’ he replied.

    This is how the 2017 campaign begins – not with the wider electorate turning their backs on Labour, or even longstanding supporters turning their backs on the party, but with Labour MPs turning their backs on themselves.



    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-4436410/DAN-HODGES-June-8-vote-Mrs-May.html#ixzz4f3dvzo00
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    That's a blistering piece from Hodges, Labour will ignore the message though because of the messenger.

    Hodges makes a lot of very strong points that I agree with. He is absolutely spot on about Corbyn. But he has decided to vote Tory. He could have chosen any number of parties. He could have sat on his hands. But he is backing Theresa May and a party that is heading to the right. I am afraid that this does give cover.

    I believe Hodges was born a Bastard!
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    Tories winning 25%+ in Scotland will signal the end of the Union. Simples

    Be careful what you wish for!!!.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Fishing said:



    The Conservatives are the party that brought us the three day week. The one fact that should never be forgotten about British politics is that the Conservative reputation for economic competence is based purely on them continually claiming it. They have never actually possessed it.

    Wasn't it the Labour-backing trade unions that brought us the 3-day week in the 70s? I'm sure Ted Heath would have been happy to have avoided it if possible.
    No, it was a stunt Ted Heath pulled to create a faux national crisis and so drive voters to back him as a bastion against anarchy. As soon as the Tories were out things went back to normal, though the Labour government did have to cope with the aftermath of the cack handed Barber Boom, which was hardly a great bit of economic competence either. Like most marketing claims, the Conservatives' supposed superiority in managing money are groundless.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719
    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    Btw - the choice of thread pic was purely for Scrapheap following my blatant trolling of him last week.

    The polls in that image were out by around 17%, in favour of Labour.

    If the same were true today, this would be the most one-sided election in history, eclipsing the 'doctor's mandate' of 1931, the coupon election of 1918, the Tariff Reform election of 1906, the Reform Act election of 1832 and the Pitt election of 1784.

    I don't think it will be quite as bad as Tories win 60-20, but it's already looking absolutely brutal.
    It's the Scotland polling that got me.

    I was tipped off about the Tories getting 12 seats, I swore lots and felt shocked into paralysis for a few mins.
    It is utter and total bollox, there is absolutely no chance of Tories getting 12 seats in Scotland. Anyone who believes that is a cretin.
    The most optimistic specific predictions I had seen before this latest poll was 5-6, of which I had assumed they could win 2, maybe 3. What's your take?
    I cannot see them beating your target and even that will not be easy
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,730
    malcolmg said:

    Sean_F said:

    JPJ2 said:

    I see that emboldened by a couple of opinion polls Scott P and Roger are churning out total lies about both Salmond and the efforts of SNP MPs

    They should both remember the truth, not lies, about the nastiness of the rape clause Tories and how easy it will be to remind Scots of that.

    Any Tory "victory" in Scotland can only be relative, and when the dust settles, it will be clear that the snp have far more seats than the Tories in Scotland and that delaying a referendum is merely delaying the end on the Union.

    Enjoy your Pyrrhic victory

    The Tories will rue the day they defied the SNP.
    Are Tories on here so thick they cannot come up with anything original
    The Tories will put the SNP to the sword.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    JPJ2 said:

    Moniker di Canio
    "16 year olds grow up"

    Indeed they do-but every 16 year old in Scotland has spent his whole life in a country
    In which Holyrood has existed.
    Such people now ask why a parliament based in another country should veto the Scottish parliament. That is quite distinct from the gradual drift to the right which often does come with age.

    Westminster isn't in another country. Once those kids free themselves of the Nat infested and anglophobic educational system they'll have more sensible opinions.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    Mr. Ace, then Green's a damned fool. Ammianus Marcellinus was right to lambast Julian's similar policy, and it was bloody stupid when Miliband proposed it (although that was a freeze, not a cap).

    Mr. G, I fear you're being a little bit partisan there. Wouldn't be surprised if the blues gained a seat or two.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    Off now

    But I MAY be back later!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,225
    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Ave_it said:

    Hello malcolm are you worried about losing moray and Perth & Perthshire N?

    Ave it!!!!!!!! Are you back in Team Blue now? :D
    Morning GIN, what a to do , the Tories are wetting their pants continuously. When the idiots waken up on june 9th and realise they are just numpties and their creeps were crushed yet again , what will happen , nanny will not be pleased at the mess she has to clear up.
    From where they started, they'd be very pleased to increase to 3, if that can be managed. It'll just dim hopes of it being epochal. (returning to a previous epoch at least)
    The 3 border seats and Aberdeen West and Kincardine really should be odds on now. After that it really requires remarkable swings against a still broadly popular party. Not impossible, several opportunities, but hard. I can see 1 of them coming off but another 6? I just find that very hard to believe.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,554
    edited April 2017
    Just watched this, awesome to see people with a young audience encouraging voter registration. :+1: #signuptovote

    https://twitter.com/TheLastLeg/status/855700859640066048
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719
    HYUFD said:

    JPJ2 said:

    Morris Dancer
    I regard an advance by the Tories in Scotland as Pyrrhic as it will put Scotland in an unambiguous Tory v SNP state in which no matter how much May and the MSM shriek, the SNP are the winners.

    May will block the referendum which flies the face of the demographics which show over 70 per cent of 16 year olds support independence. Delay is a negative for unionists

    Also Ashcroft's polls show that a majority of Scots do not think Westminster have a right to block given Holyrood has voted for the referendum. Resentment will therefore build.

    Complete rubbish, polls show No would still win and the fall in SNP support is a direct result of voters annoyance at Sturgeon's call for indyref2 just 2 years after the last referendum. Westminster is sovereign and will decide if an when to grant Sturgeon another official referendum she should concentrate on her day job at Holyrood, in Spain the government completely ignore the Catalan nationalists even when they have a majority in Catalonia and they have had no independence referendum at all
    F********g cuckoo
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I didn't realise until reading this article that "dominatrices" was the plural of "dominatrix". I'd been using "dominatrixes". I feel kind of stupid now.

    To be fair it isn't a word you need to use in the plural very often.

    What a quiet life you lead.
    TMI, Alistair, TMI...
    Blame, I was the one who wrote about hiring 400 dominatrixes in one night, concurrently.
    Information overload, Mr Eagles.

    (And shouldn't it be 'dominatrices?')
    Blinking auto correct
    Off topic - saw an open top Mercedes with number plate TSE 1 last Monday. Just wondering.
    I do have a private number plate, but not that one.

    I do find private number plates a bit gauche but my parents bought it for me years ago.
    CAE 5 AR ?
    NE 14 ABJ ?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    JPJ2 said:

    I see that emboldened by a couple of opinion polls Scott P and Roger are churning out total lies about both Salmond and the efforts of SNP MPs

    They should both remember the truth, not lies, about the nastiness of the rape clause Tories and how easy it will be to remind Scots of that.

    Any Tory "victory" in Scotland can only be relative, and when the dust settles, it will be clear that the snp have far more seats than the Tories in Scotland and that delaying a referendum is merely delaying the end on the Union.

    Enjoy your Pyrrhic victory

    Point of order. I'd play cricket on the M1 before I'd vote Tory! The only party i have any affinity with is SLAB but as I vote in England it'll be Lib Dem because they're the ONLY party of Remain.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,062
    Roger said:

    ToryJim said:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/856077172741726209

    Anyone care to let Tim know what he's doing wrong here?

    Lab/Lib policies on Hard BREXIT are identical arent they?
    No Labour/Tory. Tim's got it right.

    How do you think Labour are going to do? Better or worse than under milliband?
    The truth is Corbyn was no more than a half-hearted supporter of REMAIN and had been a member of various internal Labour groups who had opposed EU membership in the 1980s.

    As for May, she played the role of the political opportunist. Unable, unlike Gove and Johnson, to publicly go against Cameron for fear she would lose her Cabinet seat if REMAIN won, she stayed in the background as a half-hearted supporter of REMAIN trying to ensure whatever the result her political position would be secure.

    Had REMAIN won, it would have been wonderful if Cameron had sacked her but LEAVE won and as the disparate LEAVE supportes in the Conservative Party leadership battle self-destructed, she unexpectedly found herself the last person standing and won the top prize. Would she have beaten Johnson had it been a straight fight for the leadership ? We'll never know but Gove, Johnson and Leadsom all self-destructed.

    May will go for whatever Brexit keeps her in Downing Street, pure and simple.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    edited April 2017
    JPJ2 said:



    Keep shrieking on in the face of that about the sovereignty of Westminster will be met by the majority in Scotland asserting the sovereignty of the people

    The people asserted the sovereignty of Westminster 3 years ago. Will they do so again? Well, that is far from certain, I would even put it as unlikely, but the shrieking that it is impossible they will, is identical to the shrieking from last time, and the shrieking the Tories wouldn't eclipse SLAB into an (admittedly distant) second place at Holyrood.

    It's not preposterous that No would win again, even if you and I think it likely it wouldn't, and I wish at least one Indy supporter out there would admit that. I know I am not the target audience of the optimistic prediction, but as someone who does think Indy will win, its wearing when the mere hint that a unionist could have some confidence is met with ridicule or outrage.

    In the meantime, I think the Tories can enjoy a few hours enjoyment of a really good poll for them, even if it is so far beyond their own initial expectations I think we can all say it is improbable.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,726

    kle4 said:

    Hang on

    St David's Day on 1 March, St Patrick's Day on 17 March, St George's Day on 23 April

    Plus Easter and the Two May Bank holidays!

    There wouldn't be a deal done in my office for a while...

    You dont have to give people bank holidays off, they get x days per year that's it. I think. And they usually choose to give you x - bank holidays off per year. So they'd just not give so many of the cluster off automatically.
    If you have been in a contract a long time (basically since before 2009) and your contract has not been amended then it is quite possible that you are now entitled to 8 days extra holiday compared to when you signed your contract.

    A lot of contracts used to say you were entitled to 'the statutory minimum plus bank holidays'. In 2009 that statutory minimum was changed from 20 days to 28 days but was assumed to include the 8 bank holidays as there was no legal requirement to give these. But legally if your contract still says 'the statutory minimum plus bank holidays' then you are contractually entitled to 36 days (the 28 days statutory plus 8 days bank holidays).
    Legally, that's not right. Obviously it will depend on drafting, but the definition of "statutory minimum" will either be pegged to the legislation at the time, or would be interpreted by a court as having the meaning at the time the contract was drafted (the intent of contracting parties does not change just because the language has moved on). Only if your contract defined "statutory minimum" as being the statutory minimum "as from time to time defined" might you have some point - even then it would be highly arguable.
    That is why I said contractually. Which is of course enforceable by law. Legally you are entitled to 28 days minimum including the bank holidays but unless your contract was amended by your company at the time then if it says 'the statutory minimum plus bank holidays' that means the current legal arrangement of 28 days plus bank holidays. How do I now this? Because at my sister's employer they ended up in a legal battle over it and lost as they had decided not to amend the contracts with their employees and someone took them to court over it.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719

    kle4 said:

    Hang on

    St David's Day on 1 March, St Patrick's Day on 17 March, St George's Day on 23 April

    Plus Easter and the Two May Bank holidays!

    There wouldn't be a deal done in my office for a while...

    You dont have to give people bank holidays off, they get x days per year that's it. I think. And they usually choose to give you x - bank holidays off per year. So they'd just not give so many of the cluster off automatically.
    This is an important point about this policy which has rather been glossed over. Bank holidays do indeed count towards statutory holiday entitlement so, unless that is also changed, all the proposal does is force people to reduce their summer holiday slightly in exchange for the joy of spending a wintry day on 1 March staring at a wall in Llangollen.
    The Tory frothers did not understand how normal workers get their holidays, they thought everyone could just take as many days as daddy allowed when one wanted.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Dura_Ace said:

    Damian Green is on Sky saying the new Conservative government will "cap" energy prices. We're through the looking glass now, people.

    Yes.

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/856076730053914625
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    It does indeed - Lab's floor is 25% with MOE. No lower.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719
    edited April 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    Tories getting 10 seats or over in Scotland 6/1- still seems good value I think?

    Any other opinions to help me decide if to go in again? Maxed out at 10/1 yesterday

    Yes pile in and waste more money you stupid half witted cretin, there is no chance the Tories will do it.
    Malc, can you remember what you said about the Holyrood elections recently ?
    Yes but unfortunately the STV gave the losers the seats. |They do not have that luxury here, losers don't get a seat this time.
    PS: If there were 12 tories got seats I really would despair of Scotland and apply for an Irish passport. I just cannot believe there are so many stupid people.
  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Another one that could be added to TSE's list is the return of anti-Tory tactical voting in Scotland, rather than anti-SNP. That might make the wilder seat gain projections there a tad optimistic?

    Won't tactical voting in Scotland be on unionist/nationalist lines?
    One would hope so - any allegedly patriotic Labour voter who votes SNP to keep the Tories out should take a long hard look at themselves. SNP -> Labour tactical voting is an interesting possibility, but moot given the lack of Labour/Tory contests in Scotland.
    Bollox, any Labour voter who votes Tory should be ashamed of themselves
    Morning Malc - seems my predictions of the rise of the conservatives and unionist support is crystalising in the Scots polls. I have concern over polls but the direction of travel, not only in Scotland but here in Wales, does point to a good conservative result in GE2017 and also in Scotland
    G, hold off on the champagne , it is a chimera
    Malc - neither my wife or I like or drink champagne and I do not count the polls as proof of a Scots conservative boost but it does look like they will achieve a good result - which my wife and I would celebrate with a cup of tea and a macaroon bar
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    murali_s said:

    Tories winning 25%+ in Scotland will signal the end of the Union. Simples

    Be careful what you wish for!!!.

    murali_s said:

    Tories winning 25%+ in Scotland will signal the end of the Union. Simples

    Ironic and sad.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Except via differential turnout could people tell me how Cons take Moray?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,373
    Roger said:

    JPJ2 said:

    I see that emboldened by a couple of opinion polls Scott P and Roger are churning out total lies about both Salmond and the efforts of SNP MPs

    They should both remember the truth, not lies, about the nastiness of the rape clause Tories and how easy it will be to remind Scots of that.

    Any Tory "victory" in Scotland can only be relative, and when the dust settles, it will be clear that the snp have far more seats than the Tories in Scotland and that delaying a referendum is merely delaying the end on the Union.

    Enjoy your Pyrrhic victory

    Point of order. I'd play cricket on the M1 before I'd vote Tory! The only party i have any affinity with is SLAB but as I vote in England it'll be Lib Dem because they're the ONLY party of Remain.
    Your in-law seems to have reasserted his loyalty to Jezza. I hope you've had a stiff word with him.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,856
    stodge said:



    May will go for whatever Brexit keeps her in Downing Street, pure and simple.

    Even May's most demented hagiographers on here would have to admit that ruthless self-interest is the alpha and omega of her existence.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    Beautiful day out there, time to enjoy this blessed United Kingdom while I still can.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191
    Jeez. As Labour likes Saints today the polling is suggesting they will resemble St Sebastian.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719
    Sean_F said:

    malcolmg said:

    Sean_F said:

    JPJ2 said:

    I see that emboldened by a couple of opinion polls Scott P and Roger are churning out total lies about both Salmond and the efforts of SNP MPs

    They should both remember the truth, not lies, about the nastiness of the rape clause Tories and how easy it will be to remind Scots of that.

    Any Tory "victory" in Scotland can only be relative, and when the dust settles, it will be clear that the snp have far more seats than the Tories in Scotland and that delaying a referendum is merely delaying the end on the Union.

    Enjoy your Pyrrhic victory

    The Tories will rue the day they defied the SNP.
    Are Tories on here so thick they cannot come up with anything original
    The Tories will put the SNP to the sword.
    I did not mean comedy posts
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    Sean_F said:

    malcolmg said:

    Sean_F said:

    JPJ2 said:

    I see that emboldened by a couple of opinion polls Scott P and Roger are churning out total lies about both Salmond and the efforts of SNP MPs

    They should both remember the truth, not lies, about the nastiness of the rape clause Tories and how easy it will be to remind Scots of that.

    Any Tory "victory" in Scotland can only be relative, and when the dust settles, it will be clear that the snp have far more seats than the Tories in Scotland and that delaying a referendum is merely delaying the end on the Union.

    Enjoy your Pyrrhic victory

    The Tories will rue the day they defied the SNP.
    Are Tories on here so thick they cannot come up with anything original
    The Tories will put the SNP to the sword.

    Isn't it traditional to attack scots with a hammer, as per Edward I?
  • JPJ2JPJ2 Posts: 380
    Kle4
    I think if you examine my posts and compare them to HYUFD, a fair person like yourself could only conclude that my comments are more measured and evidenced than his- but I would think that of course :-)
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    kle4 said:

    It does indeed - Lab's floor is 25% with MOE. No lower.
    We're about a week into the campaign so the polls are showng that current levels of support for Lab are 25% and for Con ~48%, so I see no particular reason to declare that anyone has hit a ceiling or a floor yet.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Hypothesis: Entire SCon surge is in Glasgow and surrounds. Zero seats at General Election.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    What price do the polls suggest a Tory Maj of 50-100 should be?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719
    kle4 said:

    JPJ2 said:



    Keep shrieking on in the face of that about the sovereignty of Westminster will be met by the majority in Scotland asserting the sovereignty of the people

    The people asserted the sovereignty of Westminster 3 years ago. Will they do so again? Well, that is far from certain, I would even put it as unlikely, but the shrieking that it is impossible they will, is identical to the shrieking from last time, and the shrieking the Tories wouldn't eclipse SLAB into an (admittedly distant) second place at Holyrood.

    It's not preposterous that No would win again, even if you and I think it likely it wouldn't, and I wish at least one Indy supporter out there would admit that. I know I am not the target audience of the optimistic prediction, but as someone who does think Indy will win, its wearing when the mere hint that a unionist could have some confidence is met with ridicule or outrage.

    In the meantime, I think the Tories can enjoy a few hours enjoyment of a really good poll for them, even if it is so far beyond their own initial expectations I think we can all say it is improbable.
    Would not surprise me NO winning again , but as time goes by that likliehood diminishes. There are still a lot of spineless/cowed people in Scotland for certain, but they are declining fast and young people are totally unlike them.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,544
    Chameleon said:

    kle4 said:

    It does indeed - Lab's floor is 25% with MOE. No lower.
    We're about a week into the campaign so the polls are showng that current levels of support for Lab are 25% and for Con ~48%, so I see no particular reason to declare that anyone has hit a ceiling or a floor yet.
    No way is 25% the floor for Labour under Corbyn.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,925
    kle4 said:

    It does indeed - Lab's floor is 25% with MOE. No lower.
    Possibly in theory.

    But what's the turnout of that 25% going to be and where are they going to turnout.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,856
    JC seemed to go full Hugh Abbott on Marr. When you're have to assert that you're not an ISIS supporter in an interview it's clearly not going well.

    I'd still take him over the old woman with the Prince Valiant haircut though.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,373
    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    malcolmg said:

    Sean_F said:

    JPJ2 said:

    I see that emboldened by a couple of opinion polls Scott P and Roger are churning out total lies about both Salmond and the efforts of SNP MPs

    They should both remember the truth, not lies, about the nastiness of the rape clause Tories and how easy it will be to remind Scots of that.

    Any Tory "victory" in Scotland can only be relative, and when the dust settles, it will be clear that the snp have far more seats than the Tories in Scotland and that delaying a referendum is merely delaying the end on the Union.

    Enjoy your Pyrrhic victory

    The Tories will rue the day they defied the SNP.
    Are Tories on here so thick they cannot come up with anything original
    The Tories will put the SNP to the sword.

    Isn't it traditional to attack scots with a hammer, as per Edward I?
    Well, Edward was the actual hammer. History doesn't record whether anyone survived telling him he was a tool.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,225
    Alistair said:

    Except via differential turnout could people tell me how Cons take Moray?

    They can probably squeeze another 2-3K from the other Unionists but there has to be a significant swing from the SNP. There were some big swings that way in 2016 in the Holyrood elections and there is some evidence that the Tartan Tories are finally returning home but.... As I said earlier, it's hard.
  • justin124 said:

    ToryJim said:

    Scott_P said:

    As MPs packed into the Strangers’ Bar at Westminster on Tuesday evening, still trying to come to terms with Theresa May’s stunning Election announcement, one Labour veteran turned ruefully to his colleague and announced: ‘That’s it for me. I won’t be standing.’ ‘Why not?’ asked his startled friend. ‘Because if I did, I wouldn’t be able to vote for myself,’ he replied.

    This is how the 2017 campaign begins – not with the wider electorate turning their backs on Labour, or even longstanding supporters turning their backs on the party, but with Labour MPs turning their backs on themselves.



    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-4436410/DAN-HODGES-June-8-vote-Mrs-May.html#ixzz4f3dvzo00
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    That's a blistering piece from Hodges, Labour will ignore the message though because of the messenger.

    Hodges makes a lot of very strong points that I agree with. He is absolutely spot on about Corbyn. But he has decided to vote Tory. He could have chosen any number of parties. He could have sat on his hands. But he is backing Theresa May and a party that is heading to the right. I am afraid that this does give cover.

    I believe Hodges was born a Bastard!
    and yet now a saint.....
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Another one that could be added to TSE's list is the return of anti-Tory tactical voting in Scotland, rather than anti-SNP. That might make the wilder seat gain projections there a tad optimistic?

    Won't tactical voting in Scotland be on unionist/nationalist lines?
    One would hope so - any allegedly patriotic Labour voter who votes SNP to keep the Tories out should take a long hard look at themselves. SNP -> Labour tactical voting is an interesting possibility, but moot given the lack of Labour/Tory contests in Scotland.
    Bollox, any Labour voter who votes Tory should be ashamed of themselves
    Morning Malc - seems my predictions of the rise of the conservatives and unionist support is crystalising in the Scots polls. I have concern over polls but the direction of travel, not only in Scotland but here in Wales, does point to a good conservative result in GE2017 and also in Scotland
    G, hold off on the champagne , it is a chimera
    Malc - neither my wife or I like or drink champagne and I do not count the polls as proof of a Scots conservative boost but it does look like they will achieve a good result - which my wife and I would celebrate with a cup of tea and a macaroon bar
    LOL, if they do I will toast you and your wife's good health with a nice malt G.
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,270
    All the polls are showing similar leads, got to go with the trend surely?

    Done all-nighters watching the election coverage of last 3 GE's, I might not have bother this time around.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    JPJ2 said:

    Kle4
    I think if you examine my posts and compare them to HYUFD, a fair person like yourself could only conclude that my comments are more measured and evidenced than his- but I would think that of course :-)

    It's not all one sided, certainly!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,544
    Dangerous talk:

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/856085632665485312

    Tories need to stop this spreading.
This discussion has been closed.