Things starting to hot up I see...... Tesco CEO Dave Lewis, speaking at a press conference this morning at the Welwyn Garden City Headquarters, announced that the UK retailer will be relocating head offices to Malta. This decision was taken following several discussions with shareholders, with the majority of shareholders showing preference of relocating to Malta instead of to Cyprus, the next best option for the brand’s relocation.
Things starting to hot up I see...... Tesco CEO Dave Lewis, speaking at a press conference this morning at the Welwyn Garden City Headquarters, announced that the UK retailer will be relocating head offices to Malta. This decision was taken following several discussions with shareholders, with the majority of shareholders showing preference of relocating to Malta instead of to Cyprus, the next best option for the brand’s relocation.
you should have read down to the bottom of the article mate: "Image courtesy of Business Insider. NB: The information in this article is completely fake. This is part of a university project, and does not reflect the truth. All quotations are fabricated and are not to be taken as true"
LOL!
Sandpit , you laughing at me
Why not? Everyone else is. How could you have possibly been fooled by that obvious spoof? Mr. G, I am surprised at you
Hurst I am in the garden , can hardly see the laptop screen , a few glasses of lemonade taken , so easy mistake to make. I will never live it down. PS: I was really just testing to see if anyone would notice. MRSB gets a gold star for observance.
No problem, Mr. G., with lemonade taken an easy mistake to make. I certainly won't mention it again, much.
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
Beneath a veneer of conservatism your rhetoric is that of a Trotskyite. In other circumstances you'd be mouthing off about 'scabs' undermining the proletariat by 'willing to work at low wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Given that in most of the by-elections the Remainers only have one place to go whilst the Levers have at least two and a half parties to vote for, it is hardly surprising that the Remain vote is concentrated in the one minority party that supports that increasingly minority view.
Without doubt, French productivity numbers are very impressive, but the downside is that the least productive sections of the population can't get employed.
Indeed what is not clear to me is which is cause and which is effect.
My boss is French and I asked her about why she left, simply in France once you are in an industry that is it for your career. You cannot move about, you cannot change roles, you stay in that role until you retire and of course you get promoted etc. But you are stuck in that narrow role forever. This may explain productivity and the unemployment rate.
They do get good salaries , and for early retirement etc they can get big payouts unlike the measly sums often doled out in UK. Very good pensions as well , far far superior to UK.
Presumably 'You can't touch me I'm part of the Union' is your theme tune eh, Malc?
What has that got to do wit hFrench have better social policies than the UK. Lots of derision on here whilst UK workers are treated like crap compared to other countries. Key point is apart from the US the UK is the meanest country in te civilised world to its non rich resoidents. I presume from your silly remark that you hav eplent yof cash and don't like peasants to get uppity.
PS: I am no lefty I am among the top 5-10 % salary wise in the in the UK but recognise the malaise in the union
The only 'malaise in the union' is being stoked by uppity Nationalists in Scotland...
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
The Tories and their chums will not cut off that suppply for sure
The SNP don't seem to want to; what is this week's desired outcome?
Scotland could do with some immigration and some decent policies , if only the UK government would allow it. PS: You sound like a snotty little twerp, hope you find yourself as one of those low paid workers some day and no mummy to help you out.
Almost worth Scotland seeing become Indy to see just how little French style socialism they can afford.
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
Beneath a veneer of conservatism your rhetoric is that of a Trotskyite. In other circumstances you'd be mouthing off about 'scabs' undermining the proletariat by 'willing to work at low wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Too many labels, Mr. F.. Take it back to the 19th century, Free-Traders versus Protectionists. The problem being both sides claim to be Free-Traders and try to cast the other lot as Protectionists. It just depends on one's own point of view, but if you squint and look down to the left a bit you should just be able to make out the debate on the Corn Laws.
Difficult one to predict but the grid, and weather, is intriguingly poised.
Mr. D, not really liking any of the bets (which I'm hoping suggests a cracking race). In the dry, I fancy Vettel's Ferrari for the win, but the weather makes it too much of a lottery. I think I'll just enjoy the race, and keep my powder dry.
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
Beneath a veneer of conservatism your rhetoric is that of a Trotskyite. In other circumstances you'd be mouthing off about 'scabs' undermining the proletariat by 'willing to work at low wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
I don't clam or wish to speak on behalf of anybody but myself, so if you now ultra Economic Liberals who are Pro EU then that's nice for them.
But at least one, me, supported Brexit. in an ideal would we could now adopted unilateral elimination of all trade tariffs and barriers, and adopt agricularal policy of New Zealand and an economic policy slimier to Singapore.
I am not naive enough to think that is going to happen, at least not right away. But it does weaken the strength of the state, which is a wonderful thing. In a far more real way the UK government will be in competition with the EU and governments of the EU. and competition brings improves. for the customers i.e. people!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
Beneath a veneer of conservatism your rhetoric is that of a Trotskyite. In other circumstances you'd be mouthing off about 'scabs' undermining the proletariat by 'willing to work at low wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
I don't clam or wish to speak on behalf of anybody but myself, so if you now ultra Economic Liberals who are Pro EU then that's nice for them.
But at least one, me, supported Brexit. in an ideal would we could now adopted unilateral elimination of all trade tariffs and barriers, and adopt agricularal policy of New Zealand and an economic policy slimier to Singapore.
I am not naive enough to think that is going to happen, at least not right away. But it does weaken the strength of the state, which is a wonderful thing. In a far more real way the UK government will be in competition with the EU and governments of the EU. and competition brings improves. for the customers i.e. people!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
Not all, obviously. But, there are those who consider that nation States are an impediment to the operation of markets.
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
Beneath a veneer of conservatism your rhetoric is that of a Trotskyite. In other circumstances you'd be mouthing off about 'scabs' undermining the proletariat by 'willing to work at low wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
I don't clam or wish to speak on behalf of anybody but myself, so if you now ultra Economic Liberals who are Pro EU then that's nice for them.
But at least one, me, supported Brexit. in an ideal would we could now adopted unilateral elimination of all trade tariffs and barriers, and adopt agricularal policy of New Zealand and an economic policy slimier to Singapore.
I am not naive enough to think that is going to happen, at least not right away. But it does weaken the strength of the state, which is a wonderful thing. In a far more real way the UK government will be in competition with the EU and governments of the EU. and competition brings improves. for the customers i.e. people!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
Not all, obviously. But, there are those who consider that nation States are an impediment to the operation of markets.
When I was doing my politics A Level one of the standard questions was "Is the nation state dead?" and I think the obvious answer is "no, I'd go for war for my country but not for Coca Cola."
It's not over until it's over. Spurs play first again next weekend too. Plenty of time for Chelsea to choke.
I'm going to that one though.... and Jose has said he'll be concentrating on their Europa Leagues games on the thursdays around the home game to Chelsea....
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
Beneath a veneer of conservatism your rhetoric is that of a Trotskyite. In other circumstances you'd be mouthing off about 'scabs' undermining the proletariat by 'willing to work at low wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
I don't clam or wish to speak on behalf of anybody but myself, so if you now ultra Economic Liberals who are Pro EU then that's nice for them.
But at least one, me, supported Brexit. in an ideal would we could now adopted unilateral elimination of all trade tariffs and barriers, and adopt agricularal policy of New Zealand and an economic policy slimier to Singapore.
I am not naive enough to think that is going to happen, at least not right away. But it does weaken the strength of the state, which is a wonderful thing. In a far more real way the UK government will be in competition with the EU and governments of the EU. and competition brings improves. for the customers i.e. people!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
Yep. Myself and Robert Smithson on here both fall into that category as well. As you say it is a pretty much minority belief and one we are unlikely to see fulfilled completely but that doesn't mean it isn't worth pursuing and that was something that could not be done whilst we remained inside the EU.
Mr. G, cheers. Entire fluke, though. Someone else asked me to back the horse, and I thought I'd be annoyed if it won and I hadn't put anything on myself
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
Beneath a veneer of conservatism your rhetoric is that of a Trotskyite. In other circumstances you'd be mouthing off about 'scabs' undermining the proletariat by 'willing to work at low wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
I don't clam or wish to speak on behalf of anybody but myself, so if you now ultra Economic Liberals who are Pro EU then that's nice for them.
But at least one, me, supported Brexit. in an ideal would we could now adopted unilateral elimination of all trade tariffs and barriers, and adopt agricularal policy of New Zealand and an economic policy slimier to Singapore.
I am not naive enough to think that is going to happen, at least not right away. But it does weaken the strength of the state, which is a wonderful thing. In a far more real way the UK government will be in competition with the EU and governments of the EU. and competition brings improves. for the customers i.e. people!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
Not all, obviously. But, there are those who consider that nation States are an impediment to the operation of markets.
The EU is like a giant sovereignty machine that is little by little raising the position of the nations of Europe from being a mere chessboard over which outside powers competed, back to a position of political preeminence in the world.
The UK has voted to turn itself back into a chessboard.
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
Beneath a veneer of conservatism your rhetoric is that of a Trotskyite. In other circumstances you'd be mouthing off about 'scabs' undermining the proletariat by 'willing to work at low wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
I don't clam or wish to speak on behalf of anybody but myself, so if you now ultra Economic Liberals who are Pro EU then that's nice for them.
But at least one, me, supported Brexit. in an ideal would we could now adopted unilateral elimination of all trade tariffs and barriers, and adopt agricularal policy of New Zealand and an economic policy slimier to Singapore.
I am not naive enough to think that is going to happen, at least not right away. But it does weaken the strength of the state, which is a wonderful thing. In a far more real way the UK government will be in competition with the EU and governments of the EU. and competition brings improves. for the customers i.e. people!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
Not all, obviously. But, there are those who consider that nation States are an impediment to the operation of markets.
Yes, and I largely agree with that assessment. governments all sizes and shapes are bad, or at least sub optimal. The 'badness' or distance from the optimal gets larger as the state covers a bigger area.
When governments are in competition with each over wonderful things happen. the Greek city states of 600-300 BCE for example, or some extent the swize cantons of today.
Full anarchy may be the best, but it has the weakens of what stops somebody rising to impose a new order, lots of small competing states is a close almost as good solution that is more stable. at least that my opinion.
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
Beneath a veneer of conservatism your rhetoric is that of a Trotskyite. In other circumstances you'd be mouthing off about 'scabs' undermining the proletariat by 'willing to work at low wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
I don't clam or wish to speak on behalf of anybody but myself, so if you now ultra Economic Liberals who are Pro EU then that's nice for them.
But at least one, me, supported Brexit. in an ideal would we could now adopted unilateral elimination of all trade tariffs and barriers, and adopt agricularal policy of New Zealand and an economic policy slimier to Singapore.
I am not naive enough to think that is going to happen, at least not right away. But it does weaken the strength of the state, which is a wonderful thing. In a far more real way the UK government will be in competition with the EU and governments of the EU. and competition brings improves. for the customers i.e. people!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
There were certainly economic liberals behind Brexit, especially in Vote Leave as opposed to the more nationalist and immigration focused Leave.EU but far from weakening the power of the state Brexit has if anything strengthened it, we will now have tougher immigration laws to control free movement of labour, inevitably some customs duties imposed on EU imports once we leave the single market and May and Hammond have slowed Cameron and Osborne's austerity policies.
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
Beneath a veneer of conservatism your rhetoric is that of a Trotskyite. In other circumstances you'd be mouthing off about 'scabs' undermining the proletariat by 'willing to work at low wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
I don't clam or wish to speak on behalf of anybody but myself, so if you now ultra Economic Liberals who are Pro EU then that's nice for them.
But at least one, me, supported Brexit. in an ideal would we could now adopted unilateral elimination of all trade tariffs and barriers, and adopt agricularal policy of New Zealand and an economic policy slimier to Singapore.
I am not naive enough to think that is going to happen, at least not right away. But it does weaken the strength of the state, which is a wonderful thing. In a far more real way the UK government will be in competition with the EU and governments of the EU. and competition brings improves. for the customers i.e. people!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
Not all, obviously. But, there are those who consider that nation States are an impediment to the operation of markets.
The EU is like a giant sovereignty machine that is little by little raising the position of the nations of Europe from being a mere chessboard over which outside powers competed, back to a position of political preeminence in the world.
The UK has voted to turn itself back into a chessboard.
I'm not interested in dominating the world. I want self-determination.
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
Beneath a veneer of conservatism your rhetoric is that of a Trotskyite. In other circumstances you'd be mouthing off about 'scabs' undermining the proletariat by 'willing to work at low wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
I don't clam or wish to speak on behalf of anybody but myself, so if you now ultra Economic Liberals who are Pro EU then that's nice for them.
But at least one, me, supported Brexit. in an ideal would we could now adopted unilateral elimination of all trade tariffs and barriers, and adopt agricularal policy of New Zealand and an economic policy slimier to Singapore.
I am not naive enough to think that is going to happen, at least not right away. But it does weaken the strength of the state, which is a wonderful thing. In a far more real way the UK government will be in competition with the EU and governments of the EU. and competition brings improves. for the customers i.e. people!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
Yep. Myself and Robert Smithson on here both fall into that category as well. As you say it is a pretty much minority belief and one we are unlikely to see fulfilled completely but that doesn't mean it isn't worth pursuing and that was something that could not be done whilst we remained inside the EU.
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
Beneath a veneer of conservatism your rhetoric is that of a Trotskyite. In other circumstances you'd be mouthing off about 'scabs' undermining the proletariat by 'willing to work at low wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
I don't clam or wish to speak on behalf of anybody but myself, so if you now ultra Economic Liberals who are Pro EU then that's nice for them.
But at least one, me, supported Brexit. in an ideal would we could now adopted unilateral elimination of all trade tariffs and barriers, and adopt agricularal policy of New Zealand and an economic policy slimier to Singapore.
I am not naive enough to think that is going to happen, at least not right away. But it does weaken the strength of the state, which is a wonderful thing. In a far more real way the UK government will be in competition with the EU and governments of the EU. and competition brings improves. for the customers i.e. people!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
Not all, obviously. But, there are those who consider that nation States are an impediment to the operation of markets.
Yes, and I largely agree with that assessment. governments all sizes and shapes are bad, or at least sub optimal. The 'badness' or distance from the optimal gets larger as the state covers a bigger area.
When governments are in competition with each over wonderful things happen. the Greek city states of 600-300 BCE for example, or some extent the swize cantons of today.
Full anarchy may be the best, but it has the weakens of what stops somebody rising to impose a new order, lots of small competing states is a close almost as good solution that is more stable. at least that my opinion.
With large global multinational corporations you need multinational action to regulate them and ensure they play by the rules
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
Beneath a veneer of conservatism your rhetoric is that of a Trotskyite. In other circumstances you'd be mouthing off about 'scabs' undermining the proletariat by 'willing to work at low wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
I don't clam or wish to speak on behalf of anybody but myself, so if you now ultra Economic Liberals who are Pro EU then that's nice for them.
But at least one, me, supported Brexit. in an ideal would we could now adopted unilateral elimination of all trade tariffs and barriers, and adopt agricularal policy of New Zealand and an economic policy slimier to Singapore.
I am not naive enough to think that is going to happen, at least not right away. But it does weaken the strength of the state, which is a wonderful thing. In a far more real way the UK government will be in competition with the EU and governments of the EU. and competition brings improves. for the customers i.e. people!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
Not all, obviously. But, there are those who consider that nation States are an impediment to the operation of markets.
The EU is like a giant sovereignty machine that is little by little raising the position of the nations of Europe from being a mere chessboard over which outside powers competed, back to a position of political preeminence in the world.
The UK has voted to turn itself back into a chessboard.
I'm not interested in dominating the world. I want self-determination.
Not that the EU is going to be dominating the world in any case.
Whilst the EU is creating its 'giant sovereignty machine' it is steadily falling in power and influence across the world.
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
Beneath a veneer of conservatism your rhetoric is that of a Trotskyite. In other circumstances you'd be mouthing off about 'scabs' undermining the proletariat by 'willing to work at low wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
I don't clam or wish to speak on behalf of anybody but myself, so if you now ultra Economic Liberals who are Pro EU then that's nice for them.
But at least one, me, supported Brexit. in an ideal would we could now adopted unilateral elimination of all trade tariffs and barriers, and adopt agricularal policy of New Zealand and an economic policy slimier to Singapore.
I am not naive enough to think that is going to happen, at least not right away. But it does weaken the strength of the state, which is a wonderful thing. In a far more real way the UK government will be in competition with the EU and governments of the EU. and competition brings improves. for the customers i.e. people!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
Not all, obviously. But, there are those who consider that nation States are an impediment to the operation of markets.
Yes, and I largely agree with that assessment. governments all sizes and shapes are bad, or at least sub optimal. The 'badness' or distance from the optimal gets larger as the state covers a bigger area.
When governments are in competition with each over wonderful things happen. the Greek city states of 600-300 BCE for example, or some extent the swize cantons of today.
Full anarchy may be the best, but it has the weakens of what stops somebody rising to impose a new order, lots of small competing states is a close almost as good solution that is more stable. at least that my opinion.
With large global multinational corporations you need multinational action to regulate them and ensure they play by the rules
Alternatively, that makes it easier for the multinationals to capture the regulatory authorities and ensure that the rules are favourable to them.
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
Beneath a veneer of conservatism your rhetoric is that of a Trotskyite. In other circumstances you'd be mouthing off about 'scabs' undermining the proletariat by 'willing to work at low wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
I don't clam or wish to speak on behalf of anybody but myself, so if you now ultra Economic Liberals who are Pro EU then that's nice for them.
But at least one, me, supported Brexit. in an ideal would we could now adopted unilateral elimination of all trade tariffs and barriers, and adopt agricularal policy of New Zealand and an economic policy slimier to Singapore.
I am not naive enough to think that is going to happen, at least not right away. But it does weaken the strength of the state, which is a wonderful thing. In a far more real way the UK government will be in competition with the EU and governments of the EU. and competition brings improves. for the customers i.e. people!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
There were certainly economic liberals behind Brexit, especially in Vote Leave as opposed to the more nationalist and immigration focused Leave.EU but far from weakening the power of the state Brexit has if anything strengthened it, we will now have tougher immigration laws to control free movement of labour, inevitably some customs duties imposed on EU imports once we leave the single market and May and Hammond have slowed Cameron and Osborne's austerity policies.
Yes, the economists for Brexit, led largely by Patrice Minford, where the champions of this attitude, not that may people paid much attention.
As for immigration, so long as the UK economy creates Jobs people will (try to) come here.
Osborn had gone so week on deficit reduction it was becoming pointless, We are still to see how committed Hammond is, the sins from his first budget are not good. but he is still way better than John McDonald!
but overall we will not be able to judge these things for many decades.
"... inevitably some customs duties imposed on EU imports once we leave the single market ..."
Why? Why is it inevitable that the UK impose import duties? Once we are outside the EU, what is to stop the UK unilaterally lifting all tariffs on trade?
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
Beneath a veneer of conservatism your rhetoric is that of a Trotskyite. In other circumstances you'd be mouthing off about 'scabs' undermining the proletariat by 'willing to work at low wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
I don't clam or wish to speak on behalf of anybody but myself, so if you now ultra Economic Liberals who are Pro EU then that's nice for them.
But at least one, me, supported Brexit. in an ideal would we could now adopted unilateral elimination of all trade tariffs and barriers, and adopt agricularal policy of New Zealand and an economic policy slimier to Singapore.
I am not naive enough to think that is going to happen, at least not right away. But it does weaken the strength of the state, which is a wonderful thing. In a far more real way the UK government will be in competition with the EU and governments of the EU. and competition brings improves. for the customers i.e. people!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
Not all, obviously. But, there are those who consider that nation States are an impediment to the operation of markets.
The EU is like a giant sovereignty machine that is little by little raising the position of the nations of Europe from being a mere chessboard over which outside powers competed, back to a position of political preeminence in the world.
The UK has voted to turn itself back into a chessboard.
Wrong in absolutely every respect. The EU sucked sovereignty away from the nations not enhanced it. But since we have ascertained in the past that you both fail to understand the meaning of the word sovereignty and have an innate hatred for the nation state it is hardly surprising you make such an utterly foolish statement.
"... a skilled tradesman can earn enough to support a family...."
Given the rates they charge I'd be amazed if a skilled tradesman couldn't support a family in the UK. I have had various work done recently and even decorators, a semi-skilled job, don't come for less than £200 a day. The chap who did the bathroom was £400 a day and I still cannot find a brickie at any price.
Yes, Mr Hopkins, I have. Brickies either don't turn up at all, or fail to submit an estimate, or, in two instances, submit acceptable estimates but then don't actually start work. There is so much housebuilding going on around here that a skilled bricklayer can basically write his own pay cheque and doing a week's worth of repointing doesn't seem to be worth their while.
Used to live near you - have sent a PM with a recommendation. Good luck!
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
Beneath a veneer of conservatism your rhetoric is that of a Trotskyite. In other circumstances you'd be mouthing off about 'scabs' undermining the proletariat by 'willing to work at low wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
I don't clam or wish to speak on behalf of anybody but myself, so if you now ultra Economic Liberals who are Pro EU then that's nice for them.
But at least one, me, supported Brexit. in an ideal would we could now adopted unilateral elimination of all trade tariffs and barriers, and adopt agricularal policy of New Zealand and an economic policy slimier to Singapore.
I am not naive enough to think that is going to happen, at least not right away. But it does weaken the strength of the state, which is a wonderful thing. In a far more real way the UK government will be in competition with the EU and governments of the EU. and competition brings improves. for the customers i.e. people!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
Not all, obviously. But, there are those who consider that nation States are an impediment to the operation of markets.
Yes, and I the swize cantons of today.
Full anarchy may be the best, but it has the weakens of what stops somebody rising to impose a new order, lots of small competing states is a close almost as good solution that is more stable. at least that my opinion.
With large global multinational corporations you need multinational action to regulate them and ensure they play by the rules
Alternatively, that makes it easier for the multinationals to capture the regulatory authorities and ensure that the rules are favourable to them.
Not if it is undertaken by agreement across nations
< I'm not interested in dominating the world. I want self-determination.
As do I but I don't want the centralisation of power at Westminster either.
I think its the concentration of political, cultural and financial power in London which is detrimental to Britain.
Comparing other English speaking countries - USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa all have multiple power centres.
Which, given that the UK is supposedly a union of four nations, is a damning indictment of our constitutional foresight, yet we presume to lecture our neighbours on this question.
What most of the examples you mentioned have in common is federalism.
@Another_Richard - that's very interesting, thank you. R&T's prediction in 2013 looked similar to the GE polling at the time for Labour and the Tories...but not for Ukip and the Lib Dems.
Alternatively, that makes it easier for the multinationals to capture the regulatory authorities and ensure that the rules are favourable to them.
Yep. Centralising the regulatory power in one place made it a hell of a lot easier for the big multinationals to lobby for continent wide changes to suit themselves rather than having to bother with 28 separate states, some of whom might actually still quaint ideas about being answerable to the wishes of the people or other such strange democratic notions.
"... a skilled tradesman can earn enough to support a family...."
Given the rates they charge I'd be amazed if a skilled tradesman couldn't support a family in the UK. I have had various work done recently and even decorators, a semi-skilled job, don't come for less than £200 a day. The chap who did the bathroom was £400 a day and I still cannot find a brickie at any price.
Yes, Mr Hopkins, I have. Brickies either don't turn up at all, or fail to submit an estimate, or, in two instances, submit acceptable estimates but then don't actually start work. There is so much housebuilding going on around here that a skilled bricklayer can basically write his own pay cheque and doing a week's worth of repointing doesn't seem to be worth their while.
Used to live near you - have sent a PM with a recommendation. Good luck!
Thanks very much. I will follow up your recommendation.
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
Beneath a veneer of conservatism your rhetoric is that of a Trotskyite. In other circumstances you'd be mouthing off about 'scabs' undermining the proletariat by 'willing to work at low wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
I don't clam or wish to speak on behalf of anybody but myself, so if you now ultra Economic Liberals who are Pro EU then that's nice for them.
But at least one, me, supported Brexit. in an ideal would we could now adopted unilateral elimination of all trade tariffs and barriers, and adopt agricularal policy of New Zealand and an economic policy slimier to Singapore.
I am not naive enough to think that is going to happen, at least not right away. But it does weaken the strength of the state, which is a wonderful thing. In a far more real way the UK government will be in competition with the EU and governments of the EU. and competition brings improves. for the customers i.e. people!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
There were .
Yes, the economists for Brexit, led largely by Patrice Minford, where the champions of this attitude, not that may people paid much attention.
As for immigration, so long as the UK economy creates Jobs people will (try to) come here.
Osborn had gone so week on deficit reduction it was becoming pointless, We are still to see how committed Hammond is, the sins from his first budget are not good. but he is still way better than John McDonald!
but overall we will not be able to judge these things for many decades.
Osborne had committed to take spending as a percentage of gdp down to just 35%, one of the lowest rates in the developed world but Hammond seems to have quietly dropped that. In the long run we may be better off, though that ironically may require a future Labour government to return us to the single market while staying out of the EU itself but in the short term the vote was really to put sovereignty and control of immigration over economic growth
< I'm not interested in dominating the world. I want self-determination.
As do I but I don't want the centralisation of power at Westminster either.
I think its the concentration of political, cultural and financial power in London which is detrimental to Britain.
Comparing other English speaking countries - USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa all have multiple power centres.
Which, given that the UK is supposedly a union of four nations, is a damning indictment of our constitutional foresight, yet we presume to lecture our neighbours on this question.
What most of the examples you mentioned have in common is federalism.
We now have federalism of a form with the devolved parliaments and assemblies but I would agree that we are, alongside France, the most centralised major western nation
"... inevitably some customs duties imposed on EU imports once we leave the single market ..."
Why? Why is it inevitable that the UK impose import duties? Once we are outside the EU, what is to stop the UK unilaterally lifting all tariffs on trade?
1. It is absolutely ridiculous that they can't get the horses off in an orderly manner. 40 horses over four miles and the starter let's them put their heads over the tape. Have them walk in from 100 yards and have done with it. Shades of Keith Brown.
2. So Nige thinks it's fine to launch chemical weapons attacks as long as you're not a Muslim.
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
Not all, obviously. But, there are those who consider that nation States are an impediment to the operation of markets.
Yes, and I largely agree with that assessment. governments all sizes and shapes are bad, or at least sub optimal. The 'badness' or distance from the optimal gets larger as the state covers a bigger area.
When governments are in competition with each over wonderful things happen. the Greek city states of 600-300 BCE for example, or some extent the swize cantons of today.
Full anarchy may be the best, but it has the weakens of what stops somebody rising to impose a new order, lots of small competing states is a close almost as good solution that is more stable. at least that my opinion.
With large global multinational corporations you need multinational action to regulate them and ensure they play by the rules
No you don't, you really don't, and that IMO is a dangers thought.
Firstly, Big corporations Love Regulations, it keeps out the competition especially new and innovative companies.
Secondly, companies only get big in a free market if they are producing things that people want to buy for less than any body else, e.g. a big car company!
Thirdly, when pushed by competition companies have to operate in the most optimal ways, and because of competing economies of scales and diss-economies of scale, when a company gets big in market share, is needs, if it wants to say efficient to subcontract as much as it can e.g. big car companies buying lost of components.
Alternatively, that makes it easier for the multinationals to capture the regulatory authorities and ensure that the rules are favourable to them.
Yep. Centralising the regulatory power in one place made it a hell of a lot easier for the big multinationals to lobby for continent wide changes to suit themselves rather than having to bother with 28 separate states, some of whom might actually still quaint ideas about being answerable to the wishes of the people or other such strange democratic notions.
Actually, I think the argument over economic liberalism pulls in two directions.
OTOH, having lots of different national laws and regulatory regimes will act as a barrier to the free movement of goods, services, and capital. But, on the other, national authorities can innovate, and respond to changes and public opinion far more rapidly than international bodies.
"... inevitably some customs duties imposed on EU imports once we leave the single market ..."
Why? Why is it inevitable that the UK impose import duties? Once we are outside the EU, what is to stop the UK unilaterally lifting all tariffs on trade?
The dropping of any and all barriers to trade should be our default assumption once we leave the EU.
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
Beneath a veneer of conservatism your rhetoric is that of a Trotskyite. In other circumstances you'd be mouthing off about 'scabs' undermining the proletariat by 'willing to work at low wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
I don't clam or wish to speak on behalf of anybody but myself, so if you now ultra Economic Liberals who are Pro EU then that's nice for them.
But at least one, me, supported Brexit. in an ideal would we could now adopted unilateral elimination of all trade tariffs and barriers, and adopt agricularal policy of New Zealand and an economic policy slimier to Singapore.
I am not naive enough to think that is going to happen, at least not right away. But it does weaken the strength of the state, which is a wonderful thing. In a far more real way the UK government will be in competition with the EU and governments of the EU. and competition brings improves. for the customers i.e. people!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
There were .
but overall we will not be able to judge these things for many decades.
Osborne had committed to take spending as a percentage of gdp down to just 35%, one of the lowest rates in the developed world but Hammond seems to have quietly dropped that. In the long run we may be better off, though that ironically may require a future Labour government to return us to the single market while staying out of the EU itself but in the short term the vote was really to put sovereignty and control of immigration over economic growth
People voted for all sorts of reasons, I fully accept that mine is a minority position.
Osborn did have a 35% target, but in the last few years did very little to get us there, and some really stupid things e.g. the 'help to buy' give away! Hammond may or may not tern out to be better.
But don't let me sound to pessimistic about the UK and the conservatives, they are better than Labour would be, especially at the moment. and ones outside the EU we will have the freedom and incentive to do better.
"... inevitably some customs duties imposed on EU imports once we leave the single market ..."
Why? Why is it inevitable that the UK impose import duties? Once we are outside the EU, what is to stop the UK unilaterally lifting all tariffs on trade?
The dropping of any and all barriers to trade should be our default assumption once we leave the EU.
Won't happen, not now May is PM, she is certainly no economic liberal
"... inevitably some customs duties imposed on EU imports once we leave the single market ..."
Why? Why is it inevitable that the UK impose import duties? Once we are outside the EU, what is to stop the UK unilaterally lifting all tariffs on trade?
The dropping of any and all barriers to trade should be our default assumption once we leave the EU.
@Another_Richard - that's very interesting, thank you. R&T's prediction in 2013 looked similar to the GE polling at the time for Labour and the Tories...but not for Ukip and the Lib Dems.
The R&T predictions for the 2013 local elections were not dissimilar to the ICM polls:
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
Not all, obviously. But, there are those who consider that nation States are an impediment to the operation of markets.
Yes, and I largely agree with that assessment. governments all sizes and shapes are bad, or at least sub optimal. The 'badness' or distance from the optimal gets larger as the state covers a bigger area.
When governments are in competition with each over wonderful things happen. the Greek city states of 600-300 BCE for example, or some extent the swize cantons of today.
Full anarchy may be the best, but it has the weakens of what stops somebody rising to impose a new order, lots of small competing states is a close almost as good solution that is more stable. at least that my opinion.
With large global multinational corporations you need multinational action to regulate them and ensure they play by the rules
No you don't, you really don't, and that IMO is a dangers thought.
Firstly, Big corporations Love Regulations, it keeps out the competition especially new and innovative companies.
Secondly, companies only get big in a free market if they are producing things that people want to buy for less than any body else, e.g. a big car company!
Thirdly, when pushed by competition companies have to operate in the most optimal ways, and because of competing economies of scales and diss-economies of scale, when a company gets big in market share, is needs, if it wants to say efficient to subcontract as much as it can e.g. big car companies buying lost of components.
Big companies can now move to wherever they want and if they are able to move to places with few if any rules they will not play due account to ensure they avoid behaving recklessly
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
Beneath a veneer of conservatism your rhetoric is that of a Trotskyite. In other circumstances you'd be mouthing off about 'scabs' undermining the proletariat by 'willing to work at low wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
I don't clam or wish to speak on behalf of anybody but myself, so if you now ultra Economic Liberals who are Pro EU then that's nice for them.
But at least one, me, supported Brexit. in an ideal would we could now adopted unilateral elimination of all trade tariffs and barriers, and adopt agricularal policy of New Zealand and an economic policy slimier to Singapore.
I am not naive enough to think that is going to happen, at least not right away. But it does weaken the strength of the state, which is a wonderful thing. In a far more real way the UK government will be in competition with the EU and governments of the EU. and competition brings improves. for the customers i.e. people!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
There were .
but overall we will not be able to judge these things for many decades.
Osborne had committed to take spending as a percentage of gdp down to just 35%, one of the lo
People voted for all sorts of reasons, I fully accept that mine is a minority position.
Osborn did have a 35% target, but in the last few years did very little to get us there, and some really stupid things e.g. the 'help to buy' give away! Hammond may or may not tern out to be better.
But don't let me sound to pessimistic about the UK and the conservatives, they are better than Labour would be, especially at the moment. and ones outside the EU we will have the freedom and incentive to do better.
Ironically May and Hammond are more statist than Cameron and Osborne, Farron and Corbyn even more statist than Clegg and Miliband so we are now heading in a less economically liberal direction than we were in 2015
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
Not all, obviously. But, there are those who consider that nation States are an impediment to the operation of markets.
Yes, and I largely agree with that assessment. governments all sizes and shapes are bad, or at least sub optimal. The 'badness' or distance from the optimal gets larger as the state covers a bigger area.
When governments are in competition with each over wonderful things happen. the Greek city states of 600-300 BCE for example, or some extent the swize cantons of today.
Full anarchy may be the best, but it has the weakens of what stops somebody rising to impose a new order, lots of small competing states is a close almost as good solution that is more stable. at least that my opinion.
With large global multinational corporations you need multinational action to regulate them and ensure they play by the rules
No you don't, you really don't, and that IMO is a dangers thought.
Firstly, Big corporations Love Regulations, it keeps out the competition especially new and innovative companies.
Secondly, companies only get big in a free market if they are producing things that people want to buy for less than any body else, e.g. a big car company!
Thirdly, when pushed by competition companies have to operate in the most optimal ways, and because of competing economies of scales and diss-economies of scale, when a company gets big in market share, is needs, if it wants to say efficient to subcontract as much as it can e.g. big car companies buying lost of components.
Big companies can now move to wherever they want and if they are able to move to places with few if any rules they will not play due account to ensure they avoid behaving recklessly
By and large, the places without rules are places you don't want to move to.
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
Not all, obviously. But, there are those who consider that nation States are an impediment to the operation of markets.
Yes, and I largely agree with that assessment. governments all sizes and shapes are bad, or at least sub optimal. The 'badness' or distance from the optimal gets larger as the state covers a bigger area.
When governments are in competition with each over wonderful things happen. the Greek city states of 600-300 BCE for example, or some extent the swize cantons of today.
Full anarchy may be the best, but it has the weakens of what stops somebody rising to impose a new order, lots of small competing states is a close almost as good solution that is more stable. at least that my opinion.
With large global multinational corporations you need multinational action to regulate them and ensure they play by the rules
No you don't, you really don't, and that IMO is a dangers thought.
Firstly, Big corporations Love Regulations, it keeps out the competition especially new and innovative companies.
Secondly, companies only get big in a free market if they are producing things that people want to buy for less than any body else, e.g. a big car company!
Thirdly, when pushed by competition companies have to operate in the most optimal ways, and because of competing economies of scales and diss-economies of scale, when a company gets big in market share, is needs, if it wants to say efficient to subcontract as much as it can e.g. big car companies buying lost of components.
Big companies can now move to wherever they want and if they are able to move to places with few if any rules they will not play due account to ensure they avoid behaving recklessly
What do you mean By behaving recklessly? opening factories in places that need jobs? selling goods that people what to buy?
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
Not all, obviously. But, there are those who consider that nation States are an impediment to the operation of markets.
Yes, and I largely agree with that assessment. governments all sizes and shapes are bad, or at least sub optimal. The 'badness' or distance from the optimal gets larger as the state covers a bigger area.
When governments are in competition with each over wonderful things happen. the Greek city states of 600-300 BCE for example, or some extent the swize cantons of today.
Full anarchy may be the best, but it has the weakens of what stops somebody rising to impose a new order, lots of small competing states is a close almost as good solution that is more stable. at least that my opinion.
With large global multinational corporations you need multinational action to regulate them and ensure they play by the rules
No you don't, you really don't, and that IMO is a dangers thought.
Firstly, Big corporations Love Regulations, it keeps out the competition especially new and innovative companies.
Secondly, companies only get big.
Big companies can now move to wherever they want and if they are able to move to places with few if any rules they will not play due account to ensure they avoid behaving recklessly
By and large, the places without rules are places you don't want to move to.
Depends if it is a tax haven or in a state of anarchy
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
Beneath a veneer of conservatism your rhetoric is that of a Trotskyite. In other circumstances you'd be mouthing off about 'scabs' undermining the proletariat by 'willing to work at low wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
I don't clam or wish to speak on behalf of anybody but myself, so if you now ultra Economic Liberals who are Pro EU then that's nice for them.
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
There were .
rall we will not be able to judge these things for many decades.
Osborne had committed to take spending as a percentage of gdp down to just 35%, one of the lo
People voted for all sorts of reasons, I fully accept that mine is a minority position.
Osborn did have a 35% target, but in the last few years did very little to get us there, and some really stupid things e.g. the 'help to buy' give away! Hammond may or may not tern out to be better.
But don't let me sound to pessimistic about the UK and the conservatives, they are better than Labour would be, especially at the moment. and ones outside the EU we will have the freedom and incentive to do better.
Ironically May and Hammond are more statist than Cameron and Osborne, Farron and Corbyn even more statist than Clegg and Miliband so we are now heading in a less economically liberal direction than we were in 2015
I fear you are right in this, when May made her comments about peoples Pudding size, I was very disappointed. and her subsidy of Nuclear Power is so infuriating to me!
I simply believe outside the EU there will be more presser on whoever is in 10 Downing street to indulge authoritarian instincts of, well to some extent everybody who seeks power over us by becoming a politician in the first place.
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
Not all, obviously. But, there are those who consider that nation States are an impediment to the operation of markets.
Yes, and I largely agree with that assessment. governments all sizes and shapes are bad, or at least sub optimal. The 'badness' or distance from the optimal gets larger as the state covers a bigger area.
When governments are in competition with each over wonderful things happen. the Greek city states of 600-300 BCE for example, or some extent the swize cantons of today.
Full anarchy may be the best, but it has the weakens of what stops somebody rising to impose a new order, lots of small competing states is a close almost as good solution that is more stable. at least that my opinion.
With large global multinational corporations you need multinational action to regulate them and ensure they play by the rules
No you don't, you really don't, and that IMO is a dangers thought.
Firstly, Big corporations Love Regulations, it keeps out the competition especially new and innovative companies.
Secondly, companies only get big in a components.
Big companies can now move to wherever they want and if they are able to move to places with few if any rules they will not play due account to ensure they avoid behaving recklessly
What do you mean By behaving recklessly? opening factories in places that need jobs? selling goods that people what to buy?
Giving vast sums to senior executives, lending too much without the capital to support it and failing to properly invest
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
Beneath a veneer of conservatism your rhetoric is that of a Trotskyite. In other circumstances you'd be mouthing off about 'scabs' undermining the proletariat by 'willing to work at low wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
I don't clam or wish to speak on behalf of anybody but myself, so if you now ultra Economic Liberals who are Pro EU then that's nice for them.
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
There were .
rall we will not be able to judge these things for many decades.
Osborne had committed to take spending as a percentage of gdp down to just 35%, one of the lo
People voted for all sorts of reasons, I fully accept that mine is a minority position.
Osborn did have a 35% target, but in the last few years did very little to get us there, and some really stupid things e.g. the 'help to buy' give away! Hammond may or may not tern out to be better.
But don't let me sound to pessimistic about the UK and the conservatives, they are better than Labour would be, especially at the moment. and ones outside the EU we will have the freedom and incentive to do better.
Ironically May and Hammond are more statist than Cameron and Osborne, Farron and Corbyn even more statist than Clegg and Miliband so we are now heading in a less economically liberal direction than we were in 2015
I fear you are right in this, when May made her comments about peoples Pudding size, I was very disappointed. and her subsidy of Nuclear Power is so infuriating to me!
I simply believe outside the EU there will be more presser on whoever is in 10 Downing street to indulge authoritarian instincts of, well to some extent everybody who seeks power over us by becoming a politician in the first place.
As I said earlier I think any economic benefits will come ten or twenty years down the line, not in the short-term
"... inevitably some customs duties imposed on EU imports once we leave the single market ..."
Why? Why is it inevitable that the UK impose import duties? Once we are outside the EU, what is to stop the UK unilaterally lifting all tariffs on trade?
The dropping of any and all barriers to trade should be our default assumption once we leave the EU.
Won't happen, not now May is PM, she is certainly no economic liberal
No matter what she is, her government will be significantly better than one dictated to by French farmers, Italian wine growers and German car makers.
And, really importantly, if we don't like the direction the government is taking we can kick them out at election time and replace them with another lot who can make a real difference - rather than just another flavour of the same EU soup we have had for the last 40 years.
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
Not all, obviously. But, there are those who consider that nation States are an impediment to the operation of markets.
Yes, and I largely agree with that assessment. governments all sizes and shapes are bad, or at least sub optimal. The 'badness' or distance from the optimal gets larger as the state covers a bigger area.
When governments are in competition with each over wonderful things happen. the Greek city states of 600-300 BCE for example, or some extent the swize cantons of today.
Full anarchy may be the best, but it has the weakens of what stops somebody rising to impose a new order, lots of small competing states is a close almost as good solution that is more stable. at least that my opinion.
With large global multinational corporations you need multinational action to regulate them and ensure they play by the rules
Thirdly, when pushed by competition companies have to operate in the most optimal ways, and because of competing economies of scales and diss-economies of scale, when a company gets big in market share, is needs, if it wants to say efficient to subcontract as much as it can e.g. big car companies buying lost of components.
Big companies can now move to wherever they want and if they are able to move to places with few if any rules they will not play due account to ensure they avoid behaving recklessly
By and large, the places without rules are places you don't want to move to.
I disagree with you there, migration trends, show people move to less regulated places not more, the biggest example is in the US where people are moving to low regulation Texas and out of states like high regulation California.
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
Beneath a veneer of conservatism your rhetoric is that of a Trotskyite. In other circumstances you'd be mouthing off about 'scabs' undermining the proletariat by 'willing to work at low wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
I don't clam or wish to speak on behalf of anybody but myself, so if you now ultra Economic Liberals who are Pro EU then that's nice for them.
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
There were .
rall we will not be able to judge these things for many decades.
Osborne had committed to take spending as a percentage of gdp down to just 35%, one of the lo
Osborn did have a 35% target, but in the last few years did very little to get us there, and some really stupid things e.g. the 'help to buy' give away! Hammond may or may not tern out to be better.
But don't let me sound to pessimistic about the UK and the conservatives, they are better than Labour would be, especially at the moment. and ones outside the EU we will have the freedom and incentive to do better.
Ironically May and Hammond are more statist than Cameron and Osborne, Farron and Corbyn even more statist than Clegg and Miliband so we are now heading in a less economically liberal direction than we were in 2015
I fear you are right in this, when May made her comments about peoples Pudding size, I was very disappointed. and her subsidy of Nuclear Power is so infuriating to me!
I simply believe outside the EU there will be more presser on whoever is in 10 Downing street to indulge authoritarian instincts of, well to some extent everybody who seeks power over us by becoming a politician in the first place.
As I said earlier I think any economic benefits will come ten or twenty years down the line, not in the short-term
Alternatively, that makes it easier for the multinationals to capture the regulatory authorities and ensure that the rules are favourable to them.
Yep. Centralising the regulatory power in one place made it a hell of a lot easier for the big multinationals to lobby for continent wide changes to suit themselves rather than having to bother with 28 separate states, some of whom might actually still quaint ideas about being answerable to the wishes of the people or other such strange democratic notions.
Actually, I think the argument over economic liberalism pulls in two directions.
OTOH, having lots of different national laws and regulatory regimes will act as a barrier to the free movement of goods, services, and capital. But, on the other, national authorities can innovate, and respond to changes and public opinion far more rapidly than international bodies.
Spot on. Where you fall on that debate is, really, what it comes down to.
"... inevitably some customs duties imposed on EU imports once we leave the single market ..."
Why? Why is it inevitable that the UK impose import duties? Once we are outside the EU, what is to stop the UK unilaterally lifting all tariffs on trade?
The dropping of any and all barriers to trade should be our default assumption once we leave the EU.
Won't happen, not now May is PM, she is certainly no economic liberal
No matter what she is, her government will be significantly better than one dictated to by French farmers, Italian wine growers and German car makers.
And, really importantly, if we don't like the direction the government is taking we can kick them out at election time and replace them with another lot who can make a real difference - rather than just another flavour of the same EU soup we have had for the last 40 years.
Again it is in the longer term the benefits will really show
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
Beneath a veneer of conservatism your rhetoric is that of a Trotskyite. In other circumstances you'd be mouthing off about 'scabs' undermining the proletariat by 'willing to work at low wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
I don't clam or wish to speak on behalf of anybody but myself, so if you now ultra Economic Liberals who are Pro EU then that's nice for them.
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
There were .
rall we will not be able to judge these things for many decades.
Osborne had committed to take spending as a percentage of gdp down to just 35%, one of the lo
Osborn did have a 35% target, but in the last few years did very little to get us there, and some really stupid things e.g. the 'help to buy' give away! Hammond may or may not tern out to be better.
But don't let me sound to pessimistic about the UK and the conservatives, they are better than Labour would be, especially at the moment. and ones outside the EU we will have the freedom and incentive to do better.
Ironically May and Hammond are more statist than Cameron and Osborne, Farron and Corbyn even more statist than Clegg and Miliband so we are now heading in a less economically liberal direction than we were in 2015
I fear you are right in
As I said earlier I think any economic benefits will come ten or twenty years down the line, not in the short-term
"... inevitably some customs duties imposed on EU imports once we leave the single market ..."
Why? Why is it inevitable that the UK impose import duties? Once we are outside the EU, what is to stop the UK unilaterally lifting all tariffs on trade?
The dropping of any and all barriers to trade should be our default assumption once we leave the EU.
Won't happen, not now May is PM, she is certainly no economic liberal
No matter what she is, her government will be significantly better than one dictated to by French farmers, Italian wine growers and German car makers.
And, really importantly, if we don't like the direction the government is taking we can kick them out at election time and replace them with another lot who can make a real difference - rather than just another flavour of the same EU soup we have had for the last 40 years.
I defiantly agree we are better off when are trade policy's are not built around protecting French farmers etc....
But I would not put to much confidence in the idea that we will elect a new set of politiians who will be so much better than the last. the difference hopefully, will be that it will now become clearer when and where governments do stupid things, so they have less ability, less power, to do stupid things!
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
Not all, obviously. But, there are those who consider that nation States are an impediment to the operation of markets.
Yes, and I largely agree with that assessment. governments all sizes and shapes are bad, or at least sub optimal. The 'badness' or distance from the optimal gets larger as the state covers a bigger area.
When governments are in competition with each over wonderful things happen. the Greek city states of 600-300 BCE for example, or some extent the swize cantons of today.
Full anarchy may be the best, but it has the weakens of what stops somebody rising to impose a new order, lots of small competing states is a close almost as good solution that is more stable. at least that my opinion.
With large global multinational corporations you need multinational action to regulate them and ensure they play by the rules
No you don't, you really don't, and that IMO is a dangers thought.
Firstly, Big corporations Love Regulations, it keeps out the competition especially new and innovative companies.
Secondly, companies only get big.
Big companies can now move to wherever they want and if they are able to move to places with few if any rules they will not play due account to ensure they avoid behaving recklessly
By and large, the places without rules are places you don't want to move to.
Depends if it is a tax haven or in a state of anarchy
No. Absolutely not. Tax "havens" definitely have rules. Often more strict than elsewhere.
To pick an appropriate example. - it's very hard to get a gambling licence in Gib but if you manage it the tax rewards can be substantial.
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
Beneath a veneer of conservatism your rhetoric is that of a Trotskyite. In other circumstances you'd be mouthing off about 'scabs' undermining the proletariat by 'willing to work at low wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
I don't clam or wish to speak on behalf of anybody but myself, so if you now ultra Economic Liberals who are Pro EU then that's nice for them.
But at least one, me, supported Brexit. in an ideal would we could now adopted unilateral elimination of all trade tariffs and barriers, and adopt agricularal policy of New Zealand and an economic policy slimier to Singapore.
I am not naive enough to think that is going to happen, at least not right away. But it does weaken the strength of the state, which is a wonderful thing. In a far more real way the UK government will be in competition with the EU and governments of the EU. and competition brings improves. for the customers i.e. people!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
Not all, obviously. But, there are those who consider that nation States are an impediment to the operation of markets.
The EU is like a giant sovereignty machine that is little by little raising the position of the nations of Europe from being a mere chessboard over which outside powers competed, back to a position of political preeminence in the world.
The UK has voted to turn itself back into a chessboard.
I'm not interested in dominating the world. I want self-determination.
@Another_Richard - that's very interesting, thank you. R&T's prediction in 2013 looked similar to the GE polling at the time for Labour and the Tories...but not for Ukip and the Lib Dems.
The R&T predictions for the 2013 local elections were not dissimilar to the ICM polls:
"... inevitably some customs duties imposed on EU imports once we leave the single market ..."
Why? Why is it inevitable that the UK impose import duties? Once we are outside the EU, what is to stop the UK unilaterally lifting all tariffs on trade?
The dropping of any and all barriers to trade should be our default assumption once we leave the EU.
Won't happen, not now May is PM, she is certainly no economic liberal
No matter what she is, her government will be significantly better than one dictated to by French farmers, Italian wine growers and German car makers.
And, really importantly, if we don't like the direction the government is taking we can kick them out at election time and replace them with another lot who can make a real difference - rather than just another flavour of the same EU soup we have had for the last 40 years.
I defiantly agree we are better off when are trade policy's are not built around protecting French farmers etc....
But I would not put to much confidence in the idea that we will elect a new set of politiians who will be so much better than the last. the difference hopefully, will be that it will now become clearer when and where governments do stupid things, so they have less ability, less power, to do stupid things!
I think we pretty much agree.
Hopefully our governments have more power to do things in general though, some of which will be good and some of which will undoubtedly be stupid. But they remain accountable to the British people and if they won't tidy up their own mess then we'll find someone else who will*
*Assuming of course we actually get an Opposition worthy of the name sometime soon, replacing Corbyn's mob with competent politicians might be a higher priority right now!
@Another_Richard - that's very interesting, thank you. R&T's prediction in 2013 looked similar to the GE polling at the time for Labour and the Tories...but not for Ukip and the Lib Dems.
The R&T predictions for the 2013 local elections were not dissimilar to the ICM polls:
Alternatively, that makes it easier for the multinationals to capture the regulatory authorities and ensure that the rules are favourable to them.
Yep. Centralising the regulatory power in one place made it a hell of a lot easier for the big multinationals to lobby for continent wide changes to suit themselves rather than having to bother with 28 separate states, some of whom might actually still quaint ideas about being answerable to the wishes of the people or other such strange democratic notions.
Actually, I think the argument over economic liberalism pulls in two directions.
OTOH, having lots of different national laws and regulatory regimes will act as a barrier to the free movement of goods, services, and capital. But, on the other, national authorities can innovate, and respond to changes and public opinion far more rapidly than international bodies.
Actually, I agree with you on this, I put forward one side of the argument, not because I don't think the over does not exist but because I think it is move powerful.
There have been some exelant examples of larger ish garments setting some common rules and impotently free internal movement of people, good, capital, that contain lots of smaller governments, that compete against each over.
The best example would be the Dutch republic's within the '7 provinces' in the 17 centaury, and the USA before 1930s.
in both cases they where some of the best places to live in there time, were economically and socially free, and wealthy, with wonderful examples of art, and so on coming out, in both cases a gilded age.
However in both cases the central government took over ore and more power, move spending in the center and less at the local level, move regulations from the center and so on. and at that point the exeptialisum faded, slowly, but it faded. My fear is the EU is centralising already before it has a golden age, and its demise, in terms of comparison to the rest of the would has already started.
"... inevitably some customs duties imposed on EU imports once we leave the single market ..."
Why? Why is it inevitable that the UK impose import duties? Once we are outside the EU, what is to stop the UK unilaterally lifting all tariffs on trade?
The dropping of any and all barriers to trade should be our default assumption once we leave the EU.
Won't happen, not now May is PM, she is certainly no economic liberal
No matter what she is, her government will be significantly better than one dictated to by French farmers, Italian wine growers and German car makers.
And, really importantly, if we don't like the direction the government is taking we can kick them out at election time and replace them with another lot who can make a real difference - rather than just another flavour of the same EU soup we have had for the last 40 years.
I defiantly agree we are better off when are trade policy's are not built around protecting French farmers etc....
But I would not put to much confidence in the idea that we will elect a new set of politiians who will be so much better than the last. the difference hopefully, will be that it will now become clearer when and where governments do stupid things, so they have less ability, less power, to do stupid things!
I think we pretty much agree.
Hopefully our governments have more power to do things in general though, some of which will be good and some of which will undoubtedly be stupid. But they remain accountable to the British people and if they won't tidy up their own mess then we'll find someone else who will*
*Assuming of course we actually get an Opposition worthy of the name sometime soon, replacing Corbyn's mob with competent politicians might be a higher priority right now!
Sandpit, thanks and its nice to hear somebody say they generally agree.
So I really hope I don't come across as arrogant or ungrashas, but to rephrase what you say, I would say 'hopefully are governments will have less power to.....
However in both cases the central government took over ore and more power, move spending in the center and less at the local level, move regulations from the center and so on. and at that point the exeptialisum faded, slowly, but it faded. My fear is the EU is centralising already before it has a golden age, and its demise, in terms of comparison to the rest of the would has already started.
The EU budget is 1% of GDP and it has proven itself to be institutionally resistant to large scale fiscal transfers. I think your fears are misplaced.
The comparison with the rest of the world over the recent period is heavily skewed by the integration of China into the global economy and rapid globalisation. To judge the progress of Europe on that basis will lead you to the wrong conclusions.
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
Beneath a veneer of conservatism your rhetoric is that of a Trotskyite. In other circumstances you'd be mouthing off about 'scabs' undermining the proletariat by 'willing to work at low wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
I don't clam or wish to speak on behalf of anybody but myself, so if you now ultra Economic Liberals who are Pro EU then that's nice for them.
But at least one, me, supported Brexit. in an ideal would we could now adopted unilateral elimination of all trade tariffs and barriers, and adopt agricularal policy of New Zealand and an economic policy slimier to Singapore.
I am not naive enough to think that is going to happen, at least not right away. But it does weaken the strength of the state, which is a wonderful thing. In a far more real way the UK government will be in competition with the EU and governments of the EU. and competition brings improves. for the customers i.e. people!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
Best argument for Brexit I have heard. I don't agree with it, but it makes sense.
However in both cases the central government took over ore and more power, move spending in the center and less at the local level, move regulations from the center and so on. and at that point the exeptialisum faded, slowly, but it faded. My fear is the EU is centralising already before it has a golden age, and its demise, in terms of comparison to the rest of the would has already started.
The EU budget is 1% of GDP and it has proven itself to be institutionally resistant to large scale fiscal transfers. I think your fears are misplaced.
The comparison with the rest of the world over the recent period is heavily skewed by the integration of China into the global economy and rapid globalisation. To judge the progress of Europe on that basis will lead you to the wrong conclusions.
Fair point on the Budget, for now at least. The amount of regulation and the range of things that are being covered by it is far to big and growing, at least in my opinion.
As to the rest of the would, china is one country, but almost everywhere the GDP is growing faster than in the EU, and overall the would is becoming a less regulated, more free economically and slowly that is translating in to more social freedom as well, the EU seems to me to be going in the other direction at lest economically.
Singapore is 94% richer per person than we are, if we wanted it we could be as well, all you have to do is embrace economic freedom!!! IMO
Better standards of living for the lower paid will be most speedily achieved through reducing supply of those willing to work at low wages.
Beneath a veneer of conservatism your rhetoric is that of a Trotskyite. In other circumstances you'd be mouthing off about 'scabs' undermining the proletariat by 'willing to work at low wages'.
This must be a record - called a Neo-Fascist and a Trot in the same fortnight! Both incorrect labels by loud Remainers, Surprise surprise!
Brexit has created some strange alliances. Traditionalist conservatives and socialists on one side; liberal leftists, ultra economic liberals, the SNP and Sinn Fein on the other.
Not all 'Ultra Economic Liberals' are pro EU remainders!
I don't clam or wish to speak on behalf of anybody but myself, so if you now ultra Economic Liberals who are Pro EU then that's nice for them.
But at least one, me, supported Brexit. in an ideal would we could now adopted unilateral elimination of all trade tariffs and barriers, and adopt agricularal policy of New Zealand and an economic policy slimier to Singapore.
I am not naive enough to think that is going to happen, at least not right away. But it does weaken the strength of the state, which is a wonderful thing. In a far more real way the UK government will be in competition with the EU and governments of the EU. and competition brings improves. for the customers i.e. people!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
Best argument for Brexit I have heard. I don't agree with it, but it makes sense.
I see the swedish authorities and media are persisting with their bizarro approach. Won't give a name despite saying the individual has confessed and known to them. Media know but won't say. and even more bizarre the media pixelating out photos of the individual arrested, despite the authorities having put out a photo of him on the metro....But it's OK to show victims and special ops police.
Is this legal issues or another example of what seems a very odd approach by swedish (like their we will never do any demographic based surveys of criminals because it's racist)
However in both cases the central government took over ore and more power, move spending in the center and less at the local level, move regulations from the center and so on. and at that point the exeptialisum faded, slowly, but it faded. My fear is the EU is centralising already before it has a golden age, and its demise, in terms of comparison to the rest of the would has already started.
The EU budget is 1% of GDP and it has proven itself to be institutionally resistant to large scale fiscal transfers. I think your fears are misplaced.
The comparison with the rest of the world over the recent period is heavily skewed by the integration of China into the global economy and rapid globalisation. To judge the progress of Europe on that basis will lead you to the wrong conclusions.
Fair point on the Budget, for now at least. The amount of regulation and the range of things that are being covered by it is far to big and growing, at least in my opinion.
As to the rest of the would, china is one country, but almost everywhere the GDP is growing faster than in the EU, and overall the would is becoming a less regulated, more free economically and slowly that is translating in to more social freedom as well, the EU seems to me to be going in the other direction at lest economically.
Singapore is 94% richer per person than we are, if we wanted it we could be as well, all you have to do is embrace economic freedom!!! IMO
Singapore bans chewing gum and a majority of its residents own property provided by the state. Sweden is also richer than we are and is far more regulated than the UK is and spends significantly more, generally economic freedom leads to more wealth but that is not absolute
"... inevitably some customs duties imposed on EU imports once we leave the single market ..."
Why? Why is it inevitable that the UK impose import duties? Once we are outside the EU, what is to stop the UK unilaterally lifting all tariffs on trade?
While i obviously support that, i am not naive enough to expect that to actually happen.
Comments
And 40 horses are really easy to get all to the start line at the same time, never been any problems there before...
http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/1499174/#Comment_1499174
TL:DR the Grand National is more predictable!
Given that in most of the by-elections the Remainers only have one place to go whilst the Levers have at least two and a half parties to vote for, it is hardly surprising that the Remain vote is concentrated in the one minority party that supports that increasingly minority view.
1 British pound.
I think I'll just enjoy the race, and keep my powder dry.
Or maybe not.
http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/1499016#Comment_1499016
Mr. B, fair enough. It is looking dicey.
brilliant value.
I don't clam or wish to speak on behalf of anybody but myself, so if you now ultra Economic Liberals who are Pro EU then that's nice for them.
But at least one, me, supported Brexit. in an ideal would we could now adopted unilateral elimination of all trade tariffs and barriers, and adopt agricularal policy of New Zealand and an economic policy slimier to Singapore.
I am not naive enough to think that is going to happen, at least not right away. But it does weaken the strength of the state, which is a wonderful thing. In a far more real way the UK government will be in competition with the EU and governments of the EU. and competition brings improves. for the customers i.e. people!
When a cartel falls its the little guy who benefits most!
The UK has voted to turn itself back into a chessboard.
Its the Rallings and Thrasher prediction for the 2013 local elections, based upon local by-elections:
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2013/04/21/lab-set-to-win-the-battle-for-votes-on-may-2nd-but-the-blues-surely-will-still-win-most-seats/
So what did they predict:
Lab 38
Con 29
LibD 16
UKIP 11
And the actual results:
Lab 29
Con 26
UKIP 22
LibD 13
The difference being:
Lab -9
Con -3
UKIP +11
LibD -3
Council by-elections do not have a good record as a predictive tool.
And here are the comical R&T predictions for this year:
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/04/02/the-countrys-leading-psephologists-bring-more-bad-news-for-corbyn/#vanilla-comments
Labour to get 29% and lose only 50 seats.
When governments are in competition with each over wonderful things happen. the Greek city states of 600-300 BCE for example, or some extent the swize cantons of today.
Full anarchy may be the best, but it has the weakens of what stops somebody rising to impose a new order, lots of small competing states is a close almost as good solution that is more stable. at least that my opinion.
Thanks Richard,
Whilst the EU is creating its 'giant sovereignty machine' it is steadily falling in power and influence across the world.
As for immigration, so long as the UK economy creates Jobs people will (try to) come here.
Osborn had gone so week on deficit reduction it was becoming pointless, We are still to see how committed Hammond is, the sins from his first budget are not good. but he is still way better than John McDonald!
but overall we will not be able to judge these things for many decades.
Comparing other English speaking countries - USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa all have multiple power centres.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGvwh7yKMtY
"... inevitably some customs duties imposed on EU imports once we leave the single market ..."
Why? Why is it inevitable that the UK impose import duties? Once we are outside the EU,
what is to stop the UK unilaterally lifting all tariffs on trade?
Good luck!
What most of the examples you mentioned have in common is federalism.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3145643/theresa-may-tariffs-on-goods-from-eu/
2. So Nige thinks it's fine to launch chemical weapons attacks as long as you're not a Muslim.
No you don't, you really don't, and that IMO is a dangers thought.
Firstly, Big corporations Love Regulations, it keeps out the competition especially new and innovative companies.
Secondly, companies only get big in a free market if they are producing things that people want to buy for less than any body else, e.g. a big car company!
Thirdly, when pushed by competition companies have to operate in the most optimal ways, and because of competing economies of scales and diss-economies of scale, when a company gets big in market share, is needs, if it wants to say efficient to subcontract as much as it can e.g. big car companies buying lost of components.
OTOH, having lots of different national laws and regulatory regimes will act as a barrier to the free movement of goods, services, and capital. But, on the other, national authorities can innovate, and respond to changes and public opinion far more rapidly than international bodies.
Nothing ever lasts forever
People voted for all sorts of reasons, I fully accept that mine is a minority position.
Osborn did have a 35% target, but in the last few years did very little to get us there, and some really stupid things e.g. the 'help to buy' give away! Hammond may or may not tern out to be better.
But don't let me sound to pessimistic about the UK and the conservatives, they are better than Labour would be, especially at the moment. and ones outside the EU we will have the freedom and incentive to do better.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/voting-intention-2/icm
Whereas they are now.
I suspect that the psephology experts are almost unwilling to believe that the Conservatives are doing so well in the polls as it is unprecedented.
Although the Copeland and Stoke by-elections back up the opinion polls.
We will see in a few weeks.
I fear you are right in this, when May made her comments about peoples Pudding size, I was very disappointed. and her subsidy of Nuclear Power is so infuriating to me!
I simply believe outside the EU there will be more presser on whoever is in 10 Downing street to indulge authoritarian instincts of, well to some extent everybody who seeks power over us by becoming a politician in the first place.
And, really importantly, if we don't like the direction the government is taking we can kick them out at election time and replace them with another lot who can make a real difference - rather than just another flavour of the same EU soup we have had for the last 40 years.
But I would not put to much confidence in the idea that we will elect a new set of politiians who will be so much better than the last. the difference hopefully, will be that it will now become clearer when and where governments do stupid things, so they have less ability, less power, to do stupid things!
To pick an appropriate example. - it's very hard to get a gambling licence in Gib but if you manage it the tax rewards can be substantial.
http://www.vox.com/world/2017/4/4/15022190/robert-reynolds-isolationism-nativism-refugees-wwii-trump-holocaust-america-first
Hopefully our governments have more power to do things in general though, some of which will be good and some of which will undoubtedly be stupid. But they remain accountable to the British people and if they won't tidy up their own mess then we'll find someone else who will*
*Assuming of course we actually get an Opposition worthy of the name sometime soon, replacing Corbyn's mob with competent politicians might be a higher priority right now!
But a Conservative lead of 'only' 10% in the local elections is likely to give them hundreds of gains.
There have been some exelant examples of larger ish garments setting some common rules and impotently free internal movement of people, good, capital, that contain lots of smaller governments, that compete against each over.
The best example would be the Dutch republic's within the '7 provinces' in the 17 centaury, and the USA before 1930s.
in both cases they where some of the best places to live in there time, were economically and socially free, and wealthy, with wonderful examples of art, and so on coming out, in both cases a gilded age.
However in both cases the central government took over ore and more power, move spending in the center and less at the local level, move regulations from the center and so on. and at that point the exeptialisum faded, slowly, but it faded. My fear is the EU is centralising already before it has a golden age, and its demise, in terms of comparison to the rest of the would has already started.
So I really hope I don't come across as arrogant or ungrashas, but to rephrase what you say, I would say 'hopefully are governments will have less power to.....
The comparison with the rest of the world over the recent period is heavily skewed by the integration of China into the global economy and rapid globalisation. To judge the progress of Europe on that basis will lead you to the wrong conclusions.
As to the rest of the would, china is one country, but almost everywhere the GDP is growing faster than in the EU, and overall the would is becoming a less regulated, more free economically and slowly that is translating in to more social freedom as well, the EU seems to me to be going in the other direction at lest economically.
Singapore is 94% richer per person than we are, if we wanted it we could be as well, all you have to do is embrace economic freedom!!! IMO
Thanks
I see the swedish authorities and media are persisting with their bizarro approach. Won't give a name despite saying the individual has confessed and known to them. Media know but won't say. and even more bizarre the media pixelating out photos of the individual arrested, despite the authorities having put out a photo of him on the metro....But it's OK to show victims and special ops police.
Is this legal issues or another example of what seems a very odd approach by swedish (like their we will never do any demographic based surveys of criminals because it's racist)