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  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:


    Tell that to the government and the teaching unions.

    A week isn't an especially long time either. If circumstances require it why not 5.6 weeks? If it's appropriate to take 5.6 weeks holiday throughout the year, why should those denied holidays during school holidays be denied that?

    The idea that teachers could get through the school syllabus each term with each of their pupils absent for 5.6 weeks a year in termtime is absurd. The whole reason there are set holiday times for schools is so that every class follows the same syllabus and the same timetable, without it the educational system would effectively collapse. The average family takes 2 weeks for their main holiday, that is compromise enough
    Some kids manage to get through the school year homeschooled and absent for 52 weeks a year. The teacher should.be able to plow on with the syllabus so long as the absent family guarantees to.catch up it doesn't matter if it was for 1, 2, 13 or 52 weeks.

    Forget a day or a week, if a child moves here from the southern hemisphere they either jump ahead six months or are held back six months. I skipped ahead 18 months of schooling when I was young and it did me no harm. Later on I skipped another year for maths and was doing at 13 the maths of a 16 year old. Some children are different to others. Some families are different to others.
    You can only homeschool if you are sufficiently educated to tutor your pupils (and councils are legally able to check the quality of your tutoring) and while it may be relatively easy for those with parents with degrees and even postgraduate degrees to help their children to catch up that is by no means the case with those with parents who may have few if any educational qualifications and it is those children the law was designed to help
    And this is the problem! The law treats everyone as a moron rather than having discretion. It acts as if everyone is unable to help their kids catch up and everyone is able to take holidays outside of term time. Both assumptions are fallacious.

    If the law was what it used to be... give discretion to head teachers to make reasonable decisions then that would be sane.
    Actually, the implied assumption is that only the state can provide....
    The Labour Party even wants the State to feed all primary schoolchildren, as well as educate them.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited April 2017

    Pong said:

    Credit where credit is due...

    the privileged must make a fair contribution to society.

    We already do.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-27/u-k-s-top-1-of-earners-now-paying-a-quarter-of-all-income-tax
    If the privileged are stealing most of the wealth from Joe Public, it's hardly much consolation that they dribble a bit of it back through tax.
  • Fat_Steve said:

    surbiton said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    surbiton said:

    chestnut said:

    surbiton said:

    88% was always on offer. The EU did not prevent Germany from becoming the world's no.1 exporter. Stop making excuses.

    88% is not in offer in the terms we can secure, and the Germans have wangled themselves a lovely angle on currency.
    Oh yes, repeat that again. You do not know how ignorant you are.

    Jan 4, 1999 £1 = €1.4067

    Yesterday £1 = 1.1703

    Relative to the pound, it is the Euro which has appreciated.

    I think you will find it is sterling which is the sick currency and the UK has had the advantage of the weaker currency for exports. German exports are despite having the stronger currency.

    You are saying Germany has done well despite the Euro? Well, it's a view.
    Received wisdom is often wrong. People seem to have quickly forgotten that at the time Germany joined the Euro it was called the sick man of Europe and there was a lot of angst about it having gone in at a rate that was too high. They had to go through a phase of internal devaluation to regain competitiveness.
    But we are quoting exchange rates now. Germany undoubtedly benefits from the current arrangement.
    So why did Britain not do even better with the help of a devaluation of 23€cents ?
    The answer lies in our hopeless productivity. Read the article in today's Times: "No sign of solution to the productivity puzzle" On PPP basis , the minimum wage in France is $11.20, Germany $10.30, UK $8.40.

    So, how can they compete ?

    Minutes taken to match value of a British working hour:

    Germany 44.02, France 46.37, UK 60.

    That's how!
    When i were a lad, if you wanted your car washed, you went through a car washing machine at a garage, with big spinning mechanical brushes. Now, the norm in many areas is a hand car wash from European immigrants for a fiver. So there is at least one instance where unskilled immigration has sent us backwards technologically and reduced our productivity.
    We have both - a modern soft wash automated car wash operated by hard working and efficient Europeans
  • Danny565 said:

    Pong said:

    Credit where credit is due...

    the privileged must make a fair contribution to society.

    We already do.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-27/u-k-s-top-1-of-earners-now-paying-a-quarter-of-all-income-tax
    If the privileged are stealing most of the wealth from Joe Public, it's hardly much consolation that they dribble a bit of it back through tax.
    Evidence of this stealing?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    Next batch


    Essex 2013 result
    Con 42 Lab 9 LD 9 UKIP 9 Green 2 Ind 4
    No boundary changes
    My forecast
    Con 42 Lab 9 LD 14 UKIP 3 Green 2 Ind 5

    Labour to net lose 0, we have a triumphal success to save Jeremy!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,264
    Danny565 said:

    Pong said:

    Credit where credit is due...

    the privileged must make a fair contribution to society.

    We already do.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-27/u-k-s-top-1-of-earners-now-paying-a-quarter-of-all-income-tax
    If the privileged are stealing most of the wealth from Joe Public, it's hardly much consolation that they dribble a bit of it back through tax.
    And you wonder why Labour has no credibility on the economy.....
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,147
    What am I doing with my life... I'm watching Question Time.. :anguished:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,689

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:


    Tell that to the government and the teaching unions.

    A week isn't an especially long time either. If circumstances require it why not 5.6 weeks? If it's appropriate to take 5.6 weeks holiday throughout the year, why should those denied holidays during school holidays be denied that?

    The idea that teachers could get through the school syllabus each term with each of their pupils absent for 5.6 weeks a year in termtime is absurd. The whole reason there are set holiday times for schools is so that every class follows the same syllabus and the same timetable, without it the educational system would effectively collapse. The average family takes 2 weeks for their main holiday, that is compromise enough
    Some kids manage to get through the school year homeschooled and absent for 52 weeks a year. The teacher should.be able to plow on with the syllabus so long as the absent family guarantees to.catch up it doesn't matter if it was for 1, 2, 13 or 52 weeks.

    Forget a day or a week, if a child moves here from the southern hemisphere they either jump ahead six months or are held back six months. I skipped ahead 18 months of schooling when I was young and it did me no harm. Later on I skipped another year for maths and was doing at 13 the maths of a 16 year old. Some children are different to others. Some families are different to others.
    You can only homeschool if you are sufficiently educated to tutor your pupils (and councils are legally able to check the quality of your tutoring) and while it may be relatively easy for those with parents with degrees and even postgraduate degrees to help their children to catch up that is by no means the case with those with parents who may have few if any educational qualifications and it is those children the law was designed to help
    And this is the problem! The law treats everyone as a moron rather than having discretion. It acts as if everyone is unable to help their kids catch up and everyone is able to take holidays outside of term time. Both assumptions are fallacious.

    If the law was what it used to be... give discretion to head teachers to make reasonable decisions then that would be sane.
    The law is the law, you cannot allow it for some parents but not others
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Final batch of Counties

    Dorset 2013 result
    Con 27 Lab 5 LD 12 UKIP 1
    No boundary changes
    My forecast
    Con 26 Lab 2 LD 16 Green 1

    Devon 2013 result
    Con 38 Lab 7 LD 9 UKIP 4 Green 1 Ind 3
    Boundary changes 2 fewer councillors new notional result
    Con 37 Lab 7 LD 8 UKIP 4 Green 1 Ind 3
    My forecast
    Con 37 Lab 5 LD 15 UKIP 0 Ind 3

    Cambs 2013 result
    Con 32 Lab 7 LD 14 UKIP 12 Ind 4
    Boundary changes 8 fewer councillors notional result
    Con 28 Lab 6 LD 12 UKIP 11 Ind 4
    My forecast
    Con 33 Lab 5 LD 18 UKIP 2 Ind 3

    Oxon 2013 result
    Con 31 Lab 15 LD 11 Green 2 Ind 4
    No boundary changes
    My forecast
    Con 32 Lab 13 LD 14 Green 2 Ind 2

    Bucks 2013 result
    Con 36 Lab 1 LD 5 UKIP 6 Ind 1
    No boundary changes
    My forecast
    Con 39 LD 8 UKIP 1 Ind 1

    Northants 2013 result
    Con 36 Lab 11 LD 6 UKIP 3 Ind 1
    No boundary changes
    My forecast
    Con 40 Lab 9 LD 6 Ind 2

    Somerset 2013 result
    Con 29 Lab 3 LD 18 UKIP 3 Ind 2
    No boundary changes
    My forecast
    Con 24 Lab 3 LD 26 UKIP 0 Ind 2

    Herts 2013 result
    Con 46 Lab 15 LD 16
    Boundary changes 1 more seat notional
    Con 47 Lab 15 LD 16
    My forecast
    Con 49 Lab 10 LD 19

  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Danny565 said:

    Pong said:

    Credit where credit is due...

    the privileged must make a fair contribution to society.

    We already do.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-27/u-k-s-top-1-of-earners-now-paying-a-quarter-of-all-income-tax
    If the privileged are stealing most of the wealth from Joe Public, it's hardly much consolation that they dribble a bit of it back through tax.
    And you wonder why Labour has no credibility on the economy.....
    And you wonder why the Tories have precarious (at best) credibility on standing for the ordinary person...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,762
    Fat_Steve said:

    When i were a lad, if you wanted your car washed, you went through a car washing machine at a garage, with big spinning mechanical brushes. Now, the norm in many areas is a hand car wash from European immigrants for a fiver. So there is at least one instance where unskilled immigration has sent us backwards technologically and reduced our productivity.

    Weirdly, enough, it's not that simple. The spinny-brushes much beloved by sitcom writers ("Oh no! The vicar's left the window down! What a palaver and no mistake, eh Spotty!") were comparatively expensive and rare: in my lifetime I've only ever seen two. So most people washed their own car: or, it being Britain, let the rain wash it. So these days the total productivity went up
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Is that Jamie Theakston on Question Time?
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited April 2017
    Having said that, sending Diane Abbott on to QT on a day when the injustice of private schools is top of the agenda was maybe not that well-thought-through....
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Just a little note about the French election. Both the DGSE and DGSI get their feet wet in the French political scene.

    Fillon under investigation, Le Pen under investigation.

    Is there a common thread with those two?

    Syria:
    The US military has dusted down its plans from 2013. One of the strike options would bomb Assad's capabilities back to the stone age. The military may well do their best to get Trump to buy into that one, but its a long shot.

    Agreement with Russia for some kind of signaling strike? Would be handy and certainly talks are going on, but the US could put in an effort within 48 hours if they so wish that the Russians would have no direct answer to on the ground and are unlikely to confront.
  • RobD said:

    What am I doing with my life... I'm watching Question Time.. :anguished:

    You know those philosophical arguments about the number of angels dancing on the head of a pin, and the sound of one hand clapping, and all that sort of thing?

    Well, the next time you find yourself lying wake at 3:30 in the morning, try to work out which is worse - Question Time on TV or Any Questions? on Radio 4. It's really difficult to come to a definitive conclusion.....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,689
    Y0kel said:

    Just a little note about the French election. Both the DGSE and DGSI get their feet wet in the French political scene.

    Fillon under investigation, Le Pen under investigation.

    Is there a common thread with those two?

    Syria:
    The US military has dusted down its plans from 2013. One of the strike options would bomb Assad's capabilities back to the stone age. The military may well do their best to get Trump to buy into that one, but its a long shot.

    Agreement with Russia for some kind of signaling strike? Would be handy and certainly talks are going on, but the US could put in an effort within 48 hours if they so wish that the Russians would have no direct answer to on the ground and are unlikely to confront.

    Yes, they are both rightwing and the government is socialist

    The US may do a token strike but Trump really has no interest in replacing Assad in the short-term
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Thanks to Mark for his forecasts.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,689
    Danny565 said:

    Having said that, sending Diane Abbott on to QT on a day when the injustice of private schools is top of the agenda was maybe not that well-thought-through....

    She graciously said she would have paid VAT on the £10,000 a year she spent on educating her son privately
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,549
    edited April 2017
    I presume Jezza is just going to ignore this...

    More than 1,000 Jewish Labour members and supporters have written to the Guardian condemning the decision not to expel Ken Livingstone over his comments linking Adolf Hitler with Zionism, in a move putting more pressure on the party leadership to take urgent action.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/06/ken-livingstone-on-hitler-1000-labour-supporters-urge-expulsion
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    This Michelle Dewberry is rather good.
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245

    Danny565 said:

    Pong said:

    Credit where credit is due...

    the privileged must make a fair contribution to society.

    We already do.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-27/u-k-s-top-1-of-earners-now-paying-a-quarter-of-all-income-tax
    If the privileged are stealing most of the wealth from Joe Public, it's hardly much consolation that they dribble a bit of it back through tax.
    Evidence of this stealing?
    Been away from the site for awhile. The spoof accounts really seem to have upped their game.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Tim Fallon trying the Clegg "looking straight down the camera" trick...
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Finally the Unitaries There are no boundary changes

    Wilts 2013 result
    Con 58 Lab 4 LD 27 UKIP 1 Ind 8
    My forecast
    Con 54 Lab 4 LD 28 Ind 12

    Isle Of Wight 2013 result
    Con 15 Lab 2 LD 1 UKIP 2 Ind 20
    My forecast
    Con 17 Lab 2 LD 3 UKIP 1 Ind 17

    Durham 2013 result
    Con 4 Lab 94 LD 9 Ind 19
    My forecast
    Con 9 Lab 74 LD 14 Ind 29

    Northumberland 2013 result
    Con 21 Lab 32 LD 11 Ind 3
    My forecast
    Con 22 Lab 26 LD 14 Ind 5

    Shropshire 2013 result
    Con 48 Lab 9 LD 12 Ind 5
    My forecast
    Con 41 Lab 9 LD 18 Green 1 Ind 5

    Cornwall 2013 result
    Con 31 Lab 8 LD 36 UKIP 6 Green 1 Meb K 4 Ind 37
    My forecast
    Con 24 Lab 3 LD 62 UKIP 0 Green 1 Meb K 4 Ind 29

    and my overall forecast for English gains and losses from notional 2013 results

    Con plus 58
    Lab minus 90
    LD plus 140
    Green plus 3
    UKIP minus 117
    Ind/others plus 6
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,549
    Danny565 said:

    This Michelle Dewberry is rather good.

    She is on Sky's "The Pledge" every week.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    Just a little note about the French election. Both the DGSE and DGSI get their feet wet in the French political scene.

    Fillon under investigation, Le Pen under investigation.

    Is there a common thread with those two?

    Syria:
    The US military has dusted down its plans from 2013. One of the strike options would bomb Assad's capabilities back to the stone age. The military may well do their best to get Trump to buy into that one, but its a long shot.

    Agreement with Russia for some kind of signaling strike? Would be handy and certainly talks are going on, but the US could put in an effort within 48 hours if they so wish that the Russians would have no direct answer to on the ground and are unlikely to confront.

    Yes, they are both rightwing and the government is socialist

    The US may do a token strike but Trump really has no interest in replacing Assad in the short-term
    It isn't about replacing Assad, yet. Its about showing him and everybody else who is boss. The US can launch a one time but heavy hit or spend a few days at it.

    On another note, lot of activity around a nuclear test site in North Korea. Perhaps timing is everything if the fat kid wishes to have a test.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,549
    edited April 2017
    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    Just a little note about the French election. Both the DGSE and DGSI get their feet wet in the French political scene.

    Fillon under investigation, Le Pen under investigation.

    Is there a common thread with those two?

    Syria:
    The US military has dusted down its plans from 2013. One of the strike options would bomb Assad's capabilities back to the stone age. The military may well do their best to get Trump to buy into that one, but its a long shot.

    Agreement with Russia for some kind of signaling strike? Would be handy and certainly talks are going on, but the US could put in an effort within 48 hours if they so wish that the Russians would have no direct answer to on the ground and are unlikely to confront.

    Yes, they are both rightwing and the government is socialist

    The US may do a token strike but Trump really has no interest in replacing Assad in the short-term
    It isn't about replacing Assad, yet. Its about showing him and everybody else who is boss. The US can launch a one time but heavy hit or spend a few days at it.

    On another note, lot of activity around a nuclear test site in North Korea. Perhaps timing is everything if the fat kid wishes to have a test.
    I can't imagine what pressure the scientists are under. If fatty fatty bum bum's new toys don't work, you know you are in for the chop.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Eta Basque militants tell BBC they will disarm fully on 8 April"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39512637
  • Finally the Unitaries There are no boundary changes

    .....


    Cornwall 2013 result
    Con 31 Lab 8 LD 36 UKIP 6 Green 1 Meb K 4 Ind 37
    My forecast
    Con 24 Lab 3 LD 62 UKIP 0 Green 1 Meb K 4 Ind 29

    I confess to being mildly surprised by these Cornish figures, Mark - there seem to be disproportionately more seats changing hands here than anywhere else.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,762
    Scott_P said:
    Er...they didn't think that through...
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    Finally the Unitaries There are no boundary changes

    .....


    Cornwall 2013 result
    Con 31 Lab 8 LD 36 UKIP 6 Green 1 Meb K 4 Ind 37
    My forecast
    Con 24 Lab 3 LD 62 UKIP 0 Green 1 Meb K 4 Ind 29

    I confess to being mildly surprised by these Cornish figures, Mark - there seem to be disproportionately more seats changing hands here than anywhere else.
    For the first time ever , the Lib Dems are contesting every seat . Through by election gains they are already on 44 seats
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,448
    Well Question Time pretty much unwatchable tonight...
  • Finally the Unitaries There are no boundary changes

    .....


    Cornwall 2013 result
    Con 31 Lab 8 LD 36 UKIP 6 Green 1 Meb K 4 Ind 37
    My forecast
    Con 24 Lab 3 LD 62 UKIP 0 Green 1 Meb K 4 Ind 29

    I confess to being mildly surprised by these Cornish figures, Mark - there seem to be disproportionately more seats changing hands here than anywhere else.
    For the first time ever , the Lib Dems are contesting every seat . Through by election gains they are already on 44 seats
    Interesting ... thanks for that.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,549
    GIN1138 said:

    Well Question Time pretty much unwatchable tonight...

    Is the correct answer....for every week's show....
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Tendring result Con gain from UKIP

    Con 371
    UKIP 174
    Lab 116
    LDem 99
    Green 15
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,264
    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Pong said:

    Credit where credit is due...

    the privileged must make a fair contribution to society.

    We already do.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-27/u-k-s-top-1-of-earners-now-paying-a-quarter-of-all-income-tax
    If the privileged are stealing most of the wealth from Joe Public, it's hardly much consolation that they dribble a bit of it back through tax.
    And you wonder why Labour has no credibility on the economy.....
    And you wonder why the Tories have precarious (at best) credibility on standing for the ordinary person...
    The "ordinary person" who used to vote Labour - and who now no longer pays any income tax, because it has been subcontracted to the richest 1%?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @britainelects: St James (Tendring) result:
    CON: 47.9% (+12.7)
    UKIP: 22.5% (-16.3)
    LAB: 15.0% (-1.0)
    LDEM: 12.8% (+12.8)
    GRN: 1.9% (+1.9)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,689
    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    Just a little note about the French election. Both the DGSE and DGSI get their feet wet in the French political scene.

    Fillon under investigation, Le Pen under investigation.

    Is there a common thread with those two?

    Syria:
    The US military has dusted down its plans from 2013. One of the strike options would bomb Assad's capabilities back to the stone age. The military may well do their best to get Trump to buy into that one, but its a long shot.

    Agreement with Russia for some kind of signaling strike? Would be handy and certainly talks are going on, but the US could put in an effort within 48 hours if they so wish that the Russians would have no direct answer to on the ground and are unlikely to confront.

    Yes, they are both rightwing and the government is socialist

    The US may do a token strike but Trump really has no interest in replacing Assad in the short-term
    It isn't about replacing Assad, yet. Its about showing him and everybody else who is boss. The US can launch a one time but heavy hit or spend a few days at it.

    On another note, lot of activity around a nuclear test site in North Korea. Perhaps timing is everything if the fat kid wishes to have a test.
    If Trump is ready to hit Assad he would certainly hit Kim Jong Un
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,147
    Scott_P said:

    @britainelects: St James (Tendring) result:
    CON: 47.9% (+12.7)
    UKIP: 22.5% (-16.3)
    LAB: 15.0% (-1.0)
    LDEM: 12.8% (+12.8)
    GRN: 1.9% (+1.9)

    Broken sleazy kippers? :p
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    HYUFD said:

    If Trump is ready to hit Assad he would certainly hit Kim Jong Un

    That is a very good point indeed, and a strong argument in favour of hitting Assad.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,403
    Scott_P said:

    @britainelects: St James (Tendring) result:
    CON: 47.9% (+12.7)
    UKIP: 22.5% (-16.3)
    LAB: 15.0% (-1.0)
    LDEM: 12.8% (+12.8)
    GRN: 1.9% (+1.9)

    TORY SURGE!!!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    Finally the Unitaries There are no boundary changes

    Wilts 2013 result
    Con 58 Lab 4 LD 27 UKIP 1 Ind 8
    My forecast
    Con 54 Lab 4 LD 28 Ind 12

    Cornwall 2013 result
    Con 31 Lab 8 LD 36 UKIP 6 Green 1 Meb K 4 Ind 37
    My forecast
    Con 24 Lab 3 LD 62 UKIP 0 Green 1 Meb K 4 Ind 29

    LD maj in Cornwall even? Very impressive if they can do it.

    Must say I'd be surprised to see Lab retain 4 in Wiltshire, though the one with a maj of 1 vote may have a better chance than thought thanks to a former Con Indy standing, but I'm guessing very very close to that:

    Con 55, LD 29, Lab 3, Ind, 11


  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Calderdale Con hold

    Con 1483
    LDem 420
    Lab 407
    Green 150
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,403
    GIN1138 said:

    Well Question Time pretty much unwatchable tonight...

    Question Time is like doing a jigsaw - a pointless way to pass the time until you die!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,147

    Scott_P said:

    @britainelects: St James (Tendring) result:
    CON: 47.9% (+12.7)
    UKIP: 22.5% (-16.3)
    LAB: 15.0% (-1.0)
    LDEM: 12.8% (+12.8)
    GRN: 1.9% (+1.9)

    TORY SURGE!!!
    Be a good fellow and pass the smelling salts. :smiley:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    Scott_P said:

    @britainelects: St James (Tendring) result:
    CON: 47.9% (+12.7)
    UKIP: 22.5% (-16.3)
    LAB: 15.0% (-1.0)
    LDEM: 12.8% (+12.8)
    GRN: 1.9% (+1.9)

    TORY SURGE!!!
    LD surge was bigger!!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,147
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @britainelects: St James (Tendring) result:
    CON: 47.9% (+12.7)
    UKIP: 22.5% (-16.3)
    LAB: 15.0% (-1.0)
    LDEM: 12.8% (+12.8)
    GRN: 1.9% (+1.9)

    TORY SURGE!!!
    LD surge was bigger!!
    Up infinity! Winning bigly here :D
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    Tendring result Con gain from UKIP

    Con 371
    UKIP 174
    Lab 116
    LDem 99
    Green 15

    Calderdale Con hold

    Con 1483
    LDem 420
    Lab 407
    Green 150

    I like the difference in vote numbers between these two.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,531
    edited April 2017
    Northumberland 2013 result
    Con 21 Lab 32 LD 11 Ind 3
    My forecast
    Con 22 Lab 26 LD 14 Ind 5

    Am interested in how you came up with these (particularly the Independents)? Are they based on UNS? Apologies if this has been asked.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,403
    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Pong said:

    Credit where credit is due...

    the privileged must make a fair contribution to society.

    We already do.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-27/u-k-s-top-1-of-earners-now-paying-a-quarter-of-all-income-tax
    If the privileged are stealing most of the wealth from Joe Public, it's hardly much consolation that they dribble a bit of it back through tax.
    And you wonder why Labour has no credibility on the economy.....
    And you wonder why the Tories have precarious (at best) credibility on standing for the ordinary person...
    Labour's last poll lead was.... when?
  • kle4 said:

    Finally the Unitaries There are no boundary changes

    Wilts 2013 result
    Con 58 Lab 4 LD 27 UKIP 1 Ind 8
    My forecast
    Con 54 Lab 4 LD 28 Ind 12

    Cornwall 2013 result
    Con 31 Lab 8 LD 36 UKIP 6 Green 1 Meb K 4 Ind 37
    My forecast
    Con 24 Lab 3 LD 62 UKIP 0 Green 1 Meb K 4 Ind 29

    LD maj in Cornwall even? Very impressive if they can do it.

    Must say I'd be surprised to see Lab retain 4 in Wiltshire, though the one with a maj of 1 vote may have a better chance than thought thanks to a former Con Indy standing, but I'm guessing very very close to that:

    Con 55, LD 29, Lab 3, Ind, 11


    (Lib Dem majority of One, I think...)
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Pong said:

    Credit where credit is due...

    the privileged must make a fair contribution to society.

    We already do.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-27/u-k-s-top-1-of-earners-now-paying-a-quarter-of-all-income-tax
    If the privileged are stealing most of the wealth from Joe Public, it's hardly much consolation that they dribble a bit of it back through tax.
    And you wonder why Labour has no credibility on the economy.....
    And you wonder why the Tories have precarious (at best) credibility on standing for the ordinary person...
    Labour's last poll lead was.... when?
    Consistently, late 2014?

    Not sure what that has to do with my point, though.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,403
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @britainelects: St James (Tendring) result:
    CON: 47.9% (+12.7)
    UKIP: 22.5% (-16.3)
    LAB: 15.0% (-1.0)
    LDEM: 12.8% (+12.8)
    GRN: 1.9% (+1.9)

    TORY SURGE!!!
    LD surge was bigger!!
    But they came fourth!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    kle4 said:

    Finally the Unitaries There are no boundary changes

    Wilts 2013 result
    Con 58 Lab 4 LD 27 UKIP 1 Ind 8
    My forecast
    Con 54 Lab 4 LD 28 Ind 12

    Cornwall 2013 result
    Con 31 Lab 8 LD 36 UKIP 6 Green 1 Meb K 4 Ind 37
    My forecast
    Con 24 Lab 3 LD 62 UKIP 0 Green 1 Meb K 4 Ind 29

    LD maj in Cornwall even? Very impressive if they can do it.

    Must say I'd be surprised to see Lab retain 4 in Wiltshire, though the one with a maj of 1 vote may have a better chance than thought thanks to a former Con Indy standing, but I'm guessing very very close to that:

    Con 55, LD 29, Lab 3, Ind, 11


    (Lib Dem majority of One, I think...)
    In a unitary that size, with that many independents, impressive nevertheless.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Meanwhile, Miss Dewberry continues to put all the politicians on the panel to shame.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,403
    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Pong said:

    Credit where credit is due...

    the privileged must make a fair contribution to society.

    We already do.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-27/u-k-s-top-1-of-earners-now-paying-a-quarter-of-all-income-tax
    If the privileged are stealing most of the wealth from Joe Public, it's hardly much consolation that they dribble a bit of it back through tax.
    And you wonder why Labour has no credibility on the economy.....
    And you wonder why the Tories have precarious (at best) credibility on standing for the ordinary person...
    Labour's last poll lead was.... when?
    Consistently, late 2014?

    Not sure what that has to do with my point, though.
    Labour are less popular than the Tories?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,653
    Danny565 said:

    Meanwhile, Miss Dewberry continues to put all the politicians on the panel to shame.

    How did the canvassing go ?

    Corbyn still popular with the locals :) ?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,549
    Danny565 said:

    Meanwhile, Miss Dewberry continues to put all the politicians on the panel to shame.

    Surprised you like her, she is a bit right wing.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @britainelects: Elmhurst (Aylesbury Vale) result:
    LDEM: 63.5% (+37.9)
    LAB: 12.2% (-10.0)
    CON: 11.9% (-9.3)
    UKIP: 9.0% (-14.4)
    GRN: 3.5% (-4.2)
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    LDem hold in Bath angain Aylesbury from UKIP

    Aylesbury

    LDem 785
    Lab 151
    Con 147
    UKIP 111
    Green 43

    UKIP votes went to the Lib Dems and not Con as many here assume they will
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,147
    Scott_P said:

    @britainelects: Elmhurst (Aylesbury Vale) result:
    LDEM: 63.5% (+37.9)
    LAB: 12.2% (-10.0)
    CON: 11.9% (-9.3)
    UKIP: 9.0% (-14.4)
    GRN: 3.5% (-4.2)

    A pitiful increase in the LD share there..... :p
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,531
    Elmhurst (Aylesbury Vale) result:
    LDEM: 63.5% (+37.9)
    LAB: 12.2% (-10.0)
    CON: 11.9% (-9.3)
    UKIP: 9.0% (-14.4)
    GRN: 3.5% (-4.2)
  • Lib Dems hold Bath and gain Aylesbury...
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,990
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @britainelects: St James (Tendring) result:
    CON: 47.9% (+12.7)
    UKIP: 22.5% (-16.3)
    LAB: 15.0% (-1.0)
    LDEM: 12.8% (+12.8)
    GRN: 1.9% (+1.9)

    TORY SURGE!!!
    LD surge was bigger!!
    Doesn't count if they didn't stand last time (unless they go from nothing to contending for the win or achieving it - and even then the numbers don't count but it could be called a surge).
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Bath figures

    LDem 750
    Green 343
    Con 339
    Lab 111
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Pulpstar said:

    Danny565 said:

    Meanwhile, Miss Dewberry continues to put all the politicians on the panel to shame.

    How did the canvassing go ?

    Corbyn still popular with the locals :) ?
    Not til the weekend!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @britainelects: St James (Tendring) result:
    CON: 47.9% (+12.7)
    UKIP: 22.5% (-16.3)
    LAB: 15.0% (-1.0)
    LDEM: 12.8% (+12.8)
    GRN: 1.9% (+1.9)

    TORY SURGE!!!
    LD surge was bigger!!
    But they came fourth!
    A minor detail.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    LDem hold in Bath angain Aylesbury from UKIP

    Aylesbury

    LDem 785
    Lab 151
    Con 147
    UKIP 111
    Green 43

    UKIP votes went to the Lib Dems and not Con as many here assume they will

    Damn voters, never making any sense.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,689

    HYUFD said:

    If Trump is ready to hit Assad he would certainly hit Kim Jong Un

    That is a very good point indeed, and a strong argument in favour of hitting Assad.
    As a warning shot at least
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,925
    Well respect to Mark Senior for making public his predictions.

    Its a brave effort to go all-in on something as ephemeral as council by-elections and to assume that the opinion polls are totally wrong.

    If Mark is right then he will deserve all the plaudits.

    If.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    Pretty close on percentages for two of them from Harry, not bad when spitballing locals I think.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    HYUFD said:
    On the other hand telling reporters to wait up for nothing would be very Trump.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:


    Tell that to the government and the teaching unions.

    A week isn't an especially long time either. If circumstances require it why not 5.6 weeks? If it's appropriate to take 5.6 weeks holiday throughout the year, why should those denied holidays during school holidays be denied that?

    The idea that teachers could get through the school syllabus each term with each of their pupils absent for 5.6 weeks a year in termtime is absurd. The whole reason there are set holiday times for schools is so that every class follows the same syllabus and the same timetable, without it the educational system would effectively collapse. The average family takes 2 weeks for their main holiday, that is compromise enough
    Some kids manage to get through the school year homeschooled and absent for 52 weeks a year. The teacher should.be able to plow on with the syllabus so long as the absent family guarantees to.catch up it doesn't matter if it was for 1, 2, 13 or 52 weeks.

    Forget a day or a week, if a child moves here from the southern hemisphere they either jump ahead six months or are held back six months. I skipped ahead 18 months of schooling when I was young and it did me no harm. Later on I skipped another year for maths and was doing at 13 the maths of a 16 year old. Some children are different to others. Some families are different to others.
    You can only homeschool if you are sufficiently educated to tutor your pupils (and councils are legally able to check the quality of your tutoring) and while it may be relatively easy for those with parents with degrees and even postgraduate degrees to help their children to catch up that is by no means the case with those with parents who may have few if any educational qualifications and it is those children the law was designed to help
    Unless the laws have changed in the last five years they have absolutely no right to tell you how you educate your child. In fact they have virtually no rights of inspection. And you need no qualifications.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    Well respect to Mark Senior for making public his predictions.

    Its a brave effort to go all-in on something as ephemeral as council by-elections and to assume that the opinion polls are totally wrong.

    If Mark is right then he will deserve all the plaudits.

    If.

    I think my predictions are not that far off those of Rallings and Thrasher , they will not be 100% right but I think they will be in the right ballpark
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,147
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    On the other hand telling reporters to wait up for nothing would be very Trump.
    Like the news conference when he finally put to bed the whole Birther thing :p
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    Just a little note about the French election. Both the DGSE and DGSI get their feet wet in the French political scene.

    Fillon under investigation, Le Pen under investigation.

    Is there a common thread with those two?

    Syria:
    The US military has dusted down its plans from 2013. One of the strike options would bomb Assad's capabilities back to the stone age. The military may well do their best to get Trump to buy into that one, but its a long shot.

    Agreement with Russia for some kind of signaling strike? Would be handy and certainly talks are going on, but the US could put in an effort within 48 hours if they so wish that the Russians would have no direct answer to on the ground and are unlikely to confront.

    Yes, they are both rightwing and the government is socialist

    The US may do a token strike but Trump really has no interest in replacing Assad in the short-term
    It isn't about replacing Assad, yet. Its about showing him and everybody else who is boss. The US can launch a one time but heavy hit or spend a few days at it.

    On another note, lot of activity around a nuclear test site in North Korea. Perhaps timing is everything if the fat kid wishes to have a test.
    If Trump is ready to hit Assad he would certainly hit Kim Jong Un
    Kim Jong Un potentially has a nuclear weapon and certainly has enough conventional weaponry to level Seoul and to hit Tokyo. It's not quite Mutually Assured Destruction, but its pretty close to sacrifice your allies by launching a first strike at Kim Jong Un.

    If Assad had the weaponry to flatten Tel Aviv and Jerusalem then there would not be a strike against him. He doesn't.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    HYUFD said:
    Ugh, that's the sort of cheesy line that really gets to me, I have to admit.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    And this is the problem! The law treats everyone as a moron rather than having discretion. It acts as if everyone is unable to help their kids catch up and everyone is able to take holidays outside of term time. Both assumptions are fallacious.

    If the law was what it used to be... give discretion to head teachers to make reasonable decisions then that would be sane.

    The law is the law, you cannot allow it for some parents but not others
    You can allow the school and parents the flexibility to make reasonable compromises based on the child's situation rather than one-size-fits-all nonsense. As the law used to be.

    The idea of "reasonable" people/actions are quite standard in our Common Law system anyway.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,990

    Well respect to Mark Senior for making public his predictions.

    Its a brave effort to go all-in on something as ephemeral as council by-elections and to assume that the opinion polls are totally wrong.

    If Mark is right then he will deserve all the plaudits.

    If.

    I think my predictions are not that far off those of Rallings and Thrasher , they will not be 100% right but I think they will be in the right ballpark
    What are your thoughts on the Scottish and Welsh local elections? I'd have thought that the changes there will dwarf those in England this year?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,925

    Well respect to Mark Senior for making public his predictions.

    Its a brave effort to go all-in on something as ephemeral as council by-elections and to assume that the opinion polls are totally wrong.

    If Mark is right then he will deserve all the plaudits.

    If.

    I think my predictions are not that far off those of Rallings and Thrasher , they will not be 100% right but I think they will be in the right ballpark
    John Curtice seemed to be expecting differently with his mention of a 12% swing in the opinion polls since 2013.

    Judging by your predictions you seem to expect hardly any Labour to Conservative swing, that appears to be unlikely. Especially as the opinion polls at the end of March have proven to be a good indicator of the May local elections.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,689
    notme said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:


    Tell that to the government and the teaching unions.

    A week isn't an especially long time either. If circumstances require it why not 5.6 weeks? If it's appropriate to take 5.6 weeks holiday throughout the year, why should those denied holidays during school holidays be denied that?

    The idea that teachers could get through the school syllabus each term with each of their pupils absent for 5.6 weeks a year in termtime is absurd. The whole reason there are set holiday times for schools is so that every class follows the same syllabus and the same timetable, without it the educational system would effectively collapse. The average family takes 2 weeks for their main holiday, that is compromise enough
    Some kids manage to get through the school year homeschooled and absent for 52 weeks a year. The teacher should.be able to plow on with the syllabus so long as the absent family guarantees to.catch up it doesn't matter if it was for 1, 2, 13 or 52 weeks.

    Forget a day or a week, if a child moves here from the southern hemisphere they either jump ahead six months or are held back six months. I skipped ahead 18 months of schooling when I was young and it did me no harm. Later on I skipped another year for maths and was doing at 13 the maths of a 16 year old. Some children are different to others. Some families are different to others.
    You can only homeschool if you are sufficiently educated to tutor your pupils (and councils are legally able to check the quality of your tutoring) and while it may be relatively easy for those with parents with degrees and even postgraduate degrees to help their children to catch up that is by no means the case with those with parents who may have few if any educational qualifications and it is those children the law was designed to help
    Unless the laws have changed in the last five years they have absolutely no right to tell you how you educate your child. In fact they have virtually no rights of inspection. And you need no qualifications.
    'The council can make an ‘informal enquiry’ to check your child is getting a suitable education at home. They can serve a school attendance order if they think your child needs to be taught at school.'
    https://www.gov.uk/home-education
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    Well respect to Mark Senior for making public his predictions.

    Its a brave effort to go all-in on something as ephemeral as council by-elections and to assume that the opinion polls are totally wrong.

    If Mark is right then he will deserve all the plaudits.

    If.

    I think my predictions are not that far off those of Rallings and Thrasher , they will not be 100% right but I think they will be in the right ballpark
    What are your thoughts on the Scottish and Welsh local elections? I'd have thought that the changes there will dwarf those in England this year?
    Still working on Wales . I gave figures for Scotland last week . I have not got them to hand but from memory they were around 90 Conservative gains and 10 Lib Dem gains with 150 Labour losses but memory may be faulty
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,689
    edited April 2017

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    Just a little note about the French election. Both the DGSE and DGSI get their feet wet in the French political scene.

    Fillon under investigation, Le Pen under investigation.

    Is there a common thread with those two?

    Syria:
    The US military has dusted down its plans from 2013. One of the strike options would bomb Assad's capabilities back to the stone age. The military may well do their best to get Trump to buy into that one, but its a long shot.

    Agreement with Russia for some kind of signaling strike? Would be handy and certainly talks are going on, but the US could put in an effort within 48 hours if they so wish that the Russians would have no direct answer to on the ground and are unlikely to confront.

    Yes, they are both rightwing and the government is socialist

    The US may do a token strike but Trump really has no interest in replacing Assad in the short-term
    It isn't about replacing Assad, yet. Its about showing him and everybody else who is boss. The US can launch a one time but heavy hit or spend a few days at it.

    On another note, lot of activity around a nuclear test site in North Korea. Perhaps timing is everything if the fat kid wishes to have a test.
    If Trump is ready to hit Assad he would certainly hit Kim Jong Un
    Kim Jong Un potentially has a nuclear weapon and certainly has enough conventional weaponry to level Seoul and to hit Tokyo. It's not quite Mutually Assured Destruction, but its pretty close to sacrifice your allies by launching a first strike at Kim Jong Un.

    If Assad had the weaponry to flatten Tel Aviv and Jerusalem then there would not be a strike against him. He doesn't.
    Key word potentially, if Kim Jong Un actually was allowed to develop fullscale nuclear weapons unchallenged especially in terms of minituarising a nuclear warhead it would be him who could launch the first strike on Seoul
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:


    Tell that to the government and the teaching unions.

    A week isn't an especially long time either. If circumstances require it why not 5.6 weeks? If it's appropriate to take 5.6 weeks holiday throughout the year, why should those denied holidays during school holidays be denied that?

    The idea that teachers could get through the school syllabus each term with each of their pupils absent for 5.6 weeks a year in termtime is absurd. The whole reason there are set holiday times for schools is so that every class follows the same syllabus and the same timetable, without it the educational system would effectively collapse. The average family takes 2 weeks for their main holiday, that is compromise enough
    Some kids manage to get through the school year homeschooled and absent for 52 weeks a year. The teacher should.be able to plow on with the syllabus so long as the absent family guarantees to.catch up it doesn't matter if it was for 1, 2, 13 or 52 weeks.

    Forget a day or a week, if a child moves here from the southern hemisphere they either jump ahead six months or are held back six months. I skipped ahead 18 months of schooling when I was young and it did me no harm. Later on I skipped another year for maths and was doing at 13 the maths of a 16 year old. Some children are different to others. Some families are different to others.
    You can only homeschool if you are sufficiently educated to tutor your pupils (and councils are legally able to check the quality of your tutoring) and while it may be relatively easy for those with parents with degrees and even postgraduate degrees to help their children to catch up that is by no means the case with those with parents who may have few if any educational qualifications and it is those children the law was designed to help
    And this is the problem! The law treats everyone as a moron rather than having discretion. It acts as if everyone is unable to help their kids catch up and everyone is able to take holidays outside of term time. Both assumptions are fallacious.

    If the law was what it used to be... give discretion to head teachers to make reasonable decisions then that would be sane.
    Actually, the implied assumption is that only the state can provide....
    The Labour Party even wants the State to feed all primary schoolchildren, as well as educate them.
    Precisely. Big Brother knows best. Seeing the world, expanding your mind by meeting new people, travelling across the world and seeing new curiosities etc couldn't possibly be more educational than sitting in a room with an "expert" now, could it?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    Just a little note about the French election. Both the DGSE and DGSI get their feet wet in the French political scene.

    Fillon under investigation, Le Pen under investigation.

    Is there a common thread with those two?

    Syria:
    The US military has dusted down its plans from 2013. One of the strike options would bomb Assad's capabilities back to the stone age. The military may well do their best to get Trump to buy into that one, but its a long shot.

    Agreement with Russia for some kind of signaling strike? Would be handy and certainly talks are going on, but the US could put in an effort within 48 hours if they so wish that the Russians would have no direct answer to on the ground and are unlikely to confront.

    Yes, they are both rightwing and the government is socialist

    The US may do a token strike but Trump really has no interest in replacing Assad in the short-term
    It isn't about replacing Assad, yet. Its about showing him and everybody else who is boss. The US can launch a one time but heavy hit or spend a few days at it.

    On another note, lot of activity around a nuclear test site in North Korea. Perhaps timing is everything if the fat kid wishes to have a test.
    If Trump is ready to hit Assad he would certainly hit Kim Jong Un
    Kim Jong Un potentially has a nuclear weapon and certainly has enough conventional weaponry to level Seoul and to hit Tokyo. It's not quite Mutually Assured Destruction, but its pretty close to sacrifice your allies by launching a first strike at Kim Jong Un.

    If Assad had the weaponry to flatten Tel Aviv and Jerusalem then there would not be a strike against him. He doesn't.
    Key word potentially, if Kim Jong Un actually was allowed to develop fullscale nuclear weapons unchallenged it would be him who could launch the first strike on Seoul
    He already has enough conventional weaponry to launch a first strike on Seoul, but it would be assured destruction if he did.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,689

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    Just a little note about the French election. Both the DGSE and DGSI get their feet wet in the French political scene.

    Fillon under investigation, Le Pen under investigation.

    Is there a common thread with those two?

    Syria:
    The US military has dusted down its plans from 2013. One of the strike options would bomb Assad's capabilities back to the stone age. The military may well do their best to get Trump to buy into that one, but its a long shot.

    Agreement with Russia for some kind of signaling strike? Would be handy and certainly talks are going on, but the US could put in an effort within 48 hours if they so wish that the Russians would have no direct answer to on the ground and are unlikely to confront.

    Yes, they are both rightwing and the government is socialist

    The US may do a token strike but Trump really has no interest in replacing Assad in the short-term
    It isn't about replacing Assad, yet. Its about showing him and everybody else who is boss. The US can launch a one time but heavy hit or spend a few days at it.

    On another note, lot of activity around a nuclear test site in North Korea. Perhaps timing is everything if the fat kid wishes to have a test.
    If Trump is ready to hit Assad he would certainly hit Kim Jong Un
    Kim Jong Un potentially has a nuclear weapon and certainly has enough conventional weaponry to level Seoul and to hit Tokyo. It's not quite Mutually Assured Destruction, but its pretty close to sacrifice your allies by launching a first strike at Kim Jong Un.

    If Assad had the weaponry to flatten Tel Aviv and Jerusalem then there would not be a strike against him. He doesn't.
    Key word potentially, if Kim Jong Un actually was allowed to develop fullscale nuclear weapons unchallenged it would be him who could launch the first strike on Seoul
    He already has enough conventional weaponry to launch a first strike on Seoul, but it would be assured destruction if he did.
    Not to the level of a fullscale nuclear strike
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,726
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:


    Tell that to the government and the teaching unions.

    A week isn't an especially long time either. If circumstances require it why not 5.6 weeks? If it's appropriate to take 5.6 weeks holiday throughout the year, why should those denied holidays during school holidays be denied that?

    The idea that teachers could get through the school syllabus each term with each of their pupils absent for 5.6 weeks a year in termtime is absurd. The whole reason there are set holiday times for schools is so that every class follows the same syllabus and the same timetable, without it the educational system would effectively collapse. The average family takes 2 weeks for their main holiday, that is compromise enough
    Some kids manage to get through the school year homeschooled and absent for 52 weeks a year. The teacher should.be able to plow on with the syllabus so long as the absent family guarantees to.catch up it doesn't matter if it was for 1, 2, 13 or 52 weeks.

    Forget a day or a week, if a child moves here from the southern hemisphere they either jump ahead six months or are held back six months. I skipped ahead 18 months of schooling when I was young and it did me no harm. Later on I skipped another year for maths and was doing at 13 the maths of a 16 year old. Some children are different to others. Some families are different to others.
    You can only homeschool if you are sufficiently educated to tutor your pupils (and councils are legally able to check the quality of your tutoring) and while it may be relatively easy for those with parents with degrees and even postgraduate degrees to help their children to catch up that is by no means the case with those with parents who may have few if any educational qualifications and it is those children the law was designed to help
    And this is the problem! The law treats everyone as a moron rather than having discretion. It acts as if everyone is unable to help their kids catch up and everyone is able to take holidays outside of term time. Both assumptions are fallacious.

    If the law was what it used to be... give discretion to head teachers to make reasonable decisions then that would be sane.
    The law is the law, you cannot allow it for some parents but not others
    It shouldn't be a law. That is the point.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,726
    viewcode said:

    Fat_Steve said:

    When i were a lad, if you wanted your car washed, you went through a car washing machine at a garage, with big spinning mechanical brushes. Now, the norm in many areas is a hand car wash from European immigrants for a fiver. So there is at least one instance where unskilled immigration has sent us backwards technologically and reduced our productivity.

    Weirdly, enough, it's not that simple. The spinny-brushes much beloved by sitcom writers ("Oh no! The vicar's left the window down! What a palaver and no mistake, eh Spotty!") were comparatively expensive and rare: in my lifetime I've only ever seen two. So most people washed their own car: or, it being Britain, let the rain wash it. So these days the total productivity went up
    Just about every petrol station in my home town had them. They were not rare at all. Indeed even today there ae three petrol stations in the town that still have them in spite of the hand wash craze.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    Well respect to Mark Senior for making public his predictions.

    Its a brave effort to go all-in on something as ephemeral as council by-elections and to assume that the opinion polls are totally wrong.

    If Mark is right then he will deserve all the plaudits.

    If.

    I think my predictions are not that far off those of Rallings and Thrasher , they will not be 100% right but I think they will be in the right ballpark
    John Curtice seemed to be expecting differently with his mention of a 12% swing in the opinion polls since 2013.

    Judging by your predictions you seem to expect hardly any Labour to Conservative swing, that appears to be unlikely. Especially as the opinion polls at the end of March have proven to be a good indicator of the May local elections.
    There will not be a 12% swing in England in May . The seats that are up will not allow that kind of swing .
    2009 actual vote share was

    Con 43.5 %
    Lab 13.5 %

    and 2013 actual vote share was

    Con 34.5 %
    Lab 21.3%

    a 12 % swing from 2013 would take Labour below 10% and their performance is nowhere near that bad . IMHO the actual swing Lab to Con will be around 5-6% 2013 to May
  • prh47bridgeprh47bridge Posts: 463

    You can allow the school and parents the flexibility to make reasonable compromises based on the child's situation rather than one-size-fits-all nonsense. As the law used to be.

    The idea of "reasonable" people/actions are quite standard in our Common Law system anyway.

    I haven't read the full thread but clearly some people don't understand the current situation regarding term time holidays.

    Head teachers can authorise time off in exceptional circumstances. The head teacher has complete discretion to decide whether a particular request should be granted. Some heads claim they do not have discretion but that is purely a tactic to deflect anger from parents when they refuse permission for term time holidays.

    The law has fundamentally been the same since 1944 (and, as the Supreme Court points out, hasn't really changed significantly since 1880. Since the 1944 Education Act became law parents have been required to ensure regular attendance at school and can be convicted of an offence even if they are not aware that their child is failing to attend. The introduction of fixed penalties under Blair led to a clearer definition of the rules. The original regulations set by the Blair government allowed up to 10 days holiday in "special circumstances" with additional holiday in "exceptional circumstances". Many parents interpreted this as meaning that they had the right to 10 days holiday in term time although this was clearly not the government's intention. However, the idea took hold to the point where many head teachers, particularly in primary schools, felt unable to refuse term time holidays. As a result the current regulations were introduced removing the reference to "special circumstances".

    Fines must be levied in line with the local authority's code of practice. I don't know of any LA that permits fines for a single day of absence. Most require multiple days absence before a fine will be triggered. The details vary from LA to LA but it is fairly common to require at least 5 days absence in a single term before parents are fined.

    I note that some people seem to think this should not apply to primary school children. However, the evidence is that term time absence damages the child's education regardless of whether the child is 5 or 15. And, as the judgement of the Supreme Court points out, every time a child is absent it is disruptive to the whole class as the teacher has to put in additional effort to help the child catch up. Some teachers complained that, prior to the tightening of the rules, they faced continual disruption. In a class of 30 children, if they are all taking 10 days off in term time each year, you could go through a whole school year without ever having the entire class in attendance.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,726


    ...snip...

    I note that some people seem to think this should not apply to primary school children. However, the evidence is that term time absence damages the child's education regardless of whether the child is 5 or 15. And, as the judgement of the Supreme Court points out, every time a child is absent it is disruptive to the whole class as the teacher has to put in additional effort to help the child catch up. Some teachers complained that, prior to the tightening of the rules, they faced continual disruption. In a class of 30 children, if they are all taking 10 days off in term time each year, you could go through a whole school year without ever having the entire class in attendance.

    I call BS on this. Given that many countries don't even start their kids at school until 6 or 7 years old, the idea that taking a 6 year old out of school for 2 weeks for a holiday is going to damage their education is complete garbage.

    Moreover due to serious illness I missed almost a whole term as an 8 year old. It had no negative effect on my education at all. Indeed I was so far ahead of where they expected me to be that the following year I jumped a year and went straight into year 6 where I had to stay for 2 years because I was not allowed to start senior school until I was 11.

    This is simply all about head teachers wanting to hit their targets. It has absolutely nothing to do with children being harmed by taking a holiday.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,762

    viewcode said:

    Fat_Steve said:

    When i were a lad, if you wanted your car washed, you went through a car washing machine at a garage, with big spinning mechanical brushes. Now, the norm in many areas is a hand car wash from European immigrants for a fiver. So there is at least one instance where unskilled immigration has sent us backwards technologically and reduced our productivity.

    Weirdly, enough, it's not that simple. The spinny-brushes much beloved by sitcom writers ("Oh no! The vicar's left the window down! What a palaver and no mistake, eh Spotty!") were comparatively expensive and rare: in my lifetime I've only ever seen two. So most people washed their own car: or, it being Britain, let the rain wash it. So these days the total productivity went up
    Just about every petrol station in my home town had them. They were not rare at all. Indeed even today there are three petrol stations in the town that still have them in spite of the hand wash craze.
    How big is your home town? You don't have to tell me where it is: it's a honest question

    This may simply be a case of different experiences. That line about me only ever having seen two of them is true: I have this image of Terry Scott in an Austin Princess and those handheld pumps that look like an alien, talking about the 8:20 to Liverpool Street.
  • prh47bridgeprh47bridge Posts: 463


    ...snip...

    I note that some people seem to think this should not apply to primary school children. However, the evidence is that term time absence damages the child's education regardless of whether the child is 5 or 15. And, as the judgement of the Supreme Court points out, every time a child is absent it is disruptive to the whole class as the teacher has to put in additional effort to help the child catch up. Some teachers complained that, prior to the tightening of the rules, they faced continual disruption. In a class of 30 children, if they are all taking 10 days off in term time each year, you could go through a whole school year without ever having the entire class in attendance.

    I call BS on this. Given that many countries don't even start their kids at school until 6 or 7 years old, the idea that taking a 6 year old out of school for 2 weeks for a holiday is going to damage their education is complete garbage.

    Moreover due to serious illness I missed almost a whole term as an 8 year old. It had no negative effect on my education at all. Indeed I was so far ahead of where they expected me to be that the following year I jumped a year and went straight into year 6 where I had to stay for 2 years because I was not allowed to start senior school until I was 11.

    This is simply all about head teachers wanting to hit their targets. It has absolutely nothing to do with children being harmed by taking a holiday.
    You may regard it as BS but there is plenty of research that backs it up. There may be some children that are less affected but, of course, the fact that a particular child performs well despite a lot of absence does not mean they have not suffered any negative effects. It could be that they would have done even better without the absence. Personally I prefer to trust peer-reviewed research rather than anecdotes.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,726
    edited April 2017
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Fat_Steve said:

    When i were a lad, if you wanted your car washed, you went through a car washing machine at a garage, with big spinning mechanical brushes. Now, the norm in many areas is a hand car wash from European immigrants for a fiver. So there is at least one instance where unskilled immigration has sent us backwards technologically and reduced our productivity.

    Weirdly, enough, it's not that simple. The spinny-brushes much beloved by sitcom writers ("Oh no! The vicar's left the window down! What a palaver and no mistake, eh Spotty!") were comparatively expensive and rare: in my lifetime I've only ever seen two. So most people washed their own car: or, it being Britain, let the rain wash it. So these days the total productivity went up
    Just about every petrol station in my home town had them. They were not rare at all. Indeed even today there are three petrol stations in the town that still have them in spite of the hand wash craze.
    How big is your home town? You don't have to tell me where it is: it's a honest question

    This may simply be a case of different experiences. That line about me only ever having seen two of them is true: I have this image of Terry Scott in an Austin Princess and those handheld pumps that look like an alien, talking about the 8:20 to Liverpool Street.
    Newark in Nottinghamshire. So around 30,000 people maybe these days. I actually live over the border in Lincolnshire now but Newark was where I grew up and lived for 40 odd years so I still think of it as home. I still take the kids to the car wash every once in a while as they love it and it has that strange feeling that the car is moving when it is stood still as the brushes pass. It is cheaper than buying them an Ipad. :)

    Edit. I just went and looked on google for my own interest and the town has 5 automatic car washes. 3 Jet stations, A Shell Station and a BP station. I know of at least 2 others that existed up until 10 years ago.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,241
    I see Paul Flynn MP hasn't got OGH/TSE's memo:

    But Labour MP Paul Flynn said: "Of course the Prime Minister should have the first call on the plane – she is the elected ruler."

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/royal-aides-hit-back-at-claims-prince-charles-bumped-prime-minister-off-official-plane-a3508526.html
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,726
    edited April 2017


    ...snip...

    I note that some people seem to think this should not apply to primary school children. However, the evidence is that term time absence damages the child's education regardless of whether the child is 5 or 15. And, as the judgement of the Supreme Court points out, every time a child is absent it is disruptive to the whole class as the teacher has to put in additional effort to help the child catch up. Some teachers complained that, prior to the tightening of the rules, they faced continual disruption. In a class of 30 children, if they are all taking 10 days off in term time each year, you could go through a whole school year without ever having the entire class in attendance.

    I call BS on this. Given that many countries don't even start their kids at school until 6 or 7 years old, the idea that taking a 6 year old out of school for 2 weeks for a holiday is going to damage their education is complete garbage.

    Moreover due to serious illness I missed almost a whole term as an 8 year old. It had no negative effect on my education at all. Indeed I was so far ahead of where they expected me to be that the following year I jumped a year and went straight into year 6 where I had to stay for 2 years because I was not allowed to start senior school until I was 11.

    This is simply all about head teachers wanting to hit their targets. It has absolutely nothing to do with children being harmed by taking a holiday.
    You may regard it as BS but there is plenty of research that backs it up. There may be some children that are less affected but, of course, the fact that a particular child performs well despite a lot of absence does not mean they have not suffered any negative effects. It could be that they would have done even better without the absence. Personally I prefer to trust peer-reviewed research rather than anecdotes.
    So how do you account for the fact that the UK uniquely seems to suffer from this strange affliction whereby children who miss two weeks of school at the age of 6 are irreparably damaged? Why does this strange malady not effect the rest of Europe? Again I call BS.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,925

    Well respect to Mark Senior for making public his predictions.

    Its a brave effort to go all-in on something as ephemeral as council by-elections and to assume that the opinion polls are totally wrong.

    If Mark is right then he will deserve all the plaudits.

    If.

    I think my predictions are not that far off those of Rallings and Thrasher , they will not be 100% right but I think they will be in the right ballpark
    John Curtice seemed to be expecting differently with his mention of a 12% swing in the opinion polls since 2013.

    Judging by your predictions you seem to expect hardly any Labour to Conservative swing, that appears to be unlikely. Especially as the opinion polls at the end of March have proven to be a good indicator of the May local elections.
    There will not be a 12% swing in England in May . The seats that are up will not allow that kind of swing .
    2009 actual vote share was

    Con 43.5 %
    Lab 13.5 %

    and 2013 actual vote share was

    Con 34.5 %
    Lab 21.3%

    a 12 % swing from 2013 would take Labour below 10% and their performance is nowhere near that bad . IMHO the actual swing Lab to Con will be around 5-6% 2013 to May
    Of course Labour can lose more than 12% - where it matters ie in Labour held wards.

    Take Norfolk as an example.

    These are the Labour held wards and the increase in the Labour vote percentage between 2009 and 2013:

    Bowthorpe +24.8%
    Caister +6.0%
    Catton Grove +19.2%
    Clenchwarton +32.4%
    Crome +15.8%
    Gaywood S +17.0%
    Kings Lynn N +42.9%
    Lakenham +23.8%
    Magdalen +11.9%
    Mile Cross +15.3%
    Sewell +10.1%
    Town Close +25.8%
    University +21.9%
    Yarmouth N +9.3%

    http://www.andrewteale.me.uk/leap/results/2009/390/
    http://www.andrewteale.me.uk/leap/results/2013/390/

    What can we gained at one election can be lost at the next.

This discussion has been closed.